Western Standard - The Alberta Revolution has begun

00:00:00.000 Good day, today is May 7th, 2025.

00:00:28.600 I'm Derek Bildebrand, publisher of the Western Standard, and you're watching The Pipeline.

00:00:33.700 I'm joined, as always, by my good friends here.

00:00:36.960 I've got Western Standard opinion editor, Nigel Hannaford.

00:00:40.560 What would be me?

00:00:41.960 Western Standard senior Alberta columnist, Corey Morgan.

00:00:45.420 Always a pleasure.

00:00:47.100 And department head of applied politics and public affairs at McAmey College,

00:00:55.920 and Senator-elect Erika Baruch.

00:00:59.280 Well, thank you for getting that right on some of it.

00:01:03.940 Some. I'm getting there.

00:01:06.520 Okay.

00:01:08.080 Well, the Alberta revolution has begun.

00:01:12.020 It is damn near close to official.

00:01:16.000 Albertans will be voting on the possibility of becoming an independent country in 2026.

00:01:24.840 This is no longer pie in the sky, pipe dream stuff.

00:01:27.580 This is no longer an angry screed on the pages of the Western Standard.

00:01:33.020 It is actually happening.

00:01:35.460 We're going to be talking about it and getting into it.

00:01:38.580 We'll also be talking about if Saskatchewan will be joining Alberta in the independence movement.

00:01:44.020 A lot going on there.

00:01:45.940 And elbows up, knees down.

00:01:48.440 Mark Carney goes to Washington to meet with President Trump.

00:01:51.800 Were his elbows as up and as sharp as he promised they'd be before the election?

00:01:57.820 Spoiler alert, they were not.

00:02:00.540 All right, well, we'll get into it here.

00:02:04.180 I'll begin with you, Corey.

00:02:08.000 The independents, I think it's very first iterations in Alberta.

00:02:12.800 They go back and go back to the Northwest Rebellion with Louis Riel,

00:02:17.060 go to the 1930s, the very inkling of the first movement for it.

00:02:21.800 The 1980s, 2001, 2019, Wexit, it's, you know, the movement, like a wave as you've put it, comes closer in the shore every time.

00:02:36.740 But this time has just come a hell of a lot.

00:02:38.680 This is a tsunami coming into the well, into the mainland here.

00:02:43.680 here um uh alberta premier daniel smith has said that she her government is amending the

00:02:50.640 citizens initiative legislation to change the bar for signatures from impossible to difficult

00:02:55.560 and even with difficult i don't think that the organizers are actually going to have that hard

00:03:00.180 of a time there is clearly enough momentum behind it she gave uh an address to alberta uh yesterday

00:03:07.440 uh nigel and i covered that uh live and uh in it she said what we all know of that uh 0.70

00:03:15.600 in all probability albertans will be having a vote on independence in 2026 uh it's real

00:03:24.560 well yeah i've been waiting a long time at least for that kick at the cap i mean whether or not

00:03:30.340 we're going to hit those sort of winning conditions by the time that vote comes well

00:03:33.380 there's a lot to be covered in the course of a year.

00:03:35.540 But this is the strongest language from an Alberta Premier we've ever seen.

00:03:40.460 She hasn't come straight out and said she supports independence.

00:03:43.600 She's made it clear she wants Alberta to be independent within a united Canada.

00:03:47.920 But at the same time, she put out a bunch of demands,

00:03:51.160 which I don't think are unreasonable, but she knows as well as anybody

00:03:55.220 there's no way that Mark Carney is going to meet those demands.

00:03:58.320 Thus, the fires are going to only become lit more.

00:04:00.900 And also she has given the mechanism for an independence referendum to be held and put it in the hands of citizens.

00:04:08.720 So it will be held.

00:04:10.860 And, well, we're in for some interesting times.

00:04:13.580 Either Central Canada is going to start making some concessions or that because she's put the demands on the wall. 0.99

00:04:22.040 The frustration of Albertans is going to grow and those winning conditions might come about.

00:04:26.620 uh erica uh i don't know if the word revolution here is too strong or not uh i mean it

00:04:35.080 even though it's about leaving canada i think it's still a canadian style revolution as in

00:04:40.040 no one gets hurt and we'll try to do it legally if possible uh there's only been a few revolutions

00:04:46.580 that kind of fit that um that description in history but i think this is one of the most

00:04:54.160 revolutionary moments in canadian political history at this point uh no premier she i i would

00:05:01.340 note her language she said you know those who are in the independence camp they're they're uh

00:05:08.680 their beefs are legitimate and serious and we should take them seriously they're not a fringe

00:05:14.320 minority uh on the other side there's those who are federalists at all cost and uh you know be

00:05:21.980 nice to them. And then there's people

00:05:23.920 like me, who

00:05:25.780 believe we can achieve

00:05:27.740 a sovereign Alberta within

00:05:29.580 a united Canada.

00:05:31.640 I parse that language

00:05:33.880 because I feel like this was a very carefully written speech.

00:05:36.480 And I parse that to mean

00:05:37.460 she is not an unconditional

00:05:39.760 federalist. She talked about

00:05:41.820 the unconditional federalists. She's not

00:05:43.680 Jason Kenney. And she did not put them

00:05:45.800 in the same, yeah, she did not put herself in the same

00:05:47.780 campus, Kenny, who has declared himself to be

00:05:49.820 an unconditional federalist.

00:05:51.160 just saying she is not i read from it tell me i want your read from it i took from it that she

00:05:57.340 is not yet in the independence right now camp but it sounds i took from that that she could be

00:06:05.000 you know what i mean this also comes after the caucus discussion last friday and so i do suspect

00:06:13.180 you are pretty accurate in your analysis because i'm sure that there are and we've seen some go a

00:06:19.080 little bit rogue, talking to the Red Deer Advocate, for example, about their desires. So I do think

00:06:25.960 that there's probably a mixing caucus of being on one of the other ends of those spectrums. And so

00:06:31.600 where I think Premier Smith is hitting the mark is that she's coming out and saying, listen,

00:06:35.860 this isn't off the table in the sense that there is due process and one that now the thresholds

00:06:42.060 have been lowered to actually come to fruition if there is a significant amount of Albertans that

00:06:47.500 want to have that conversation i think there's many of us that want to just have the conversation

00:06:51.100 to see where we sit but i think as the premier and within confederation her job right now is to

00:06:57.660 push the federal government to see if they will change the the tune that we've seen for nine years

00:07:04.620 so she's pushing on them to make sure that they're coming and meeting those demands negotiating

00:07:09.820 coming to the table trying to work with alberta and i do i do hope that uh premier mark or prime

00:07:15.740 Prime Minister Mark Carney does so, but she's got to keep being premier and look for solutions. 0.96

00:07:23.720 Well, like you said, these groups can operate through the democratic process that is in place for citizen-led initiative referendums.

00:07:32.860 And like you alluded to, the earliest I think we'll see that is during the municipal election in October.

00:07:40.000 um nigel uh well i think she said the referendums won't be held with the municipal elections in

00:07:46.460 october that they'll be held in not that not the citizen-led one she said her own referendums based

00:07:52.020 on the fair deal panel i believe i got the impression that they would be all held in

00:07:56.900 in conjunction i hope they're 2026 okay so i hope i'm wrong and the reason i say that is because

00:08:03.480 i think there's a lot of education that people need to have on what this would actually mean

00:08:07.700 one way or the other, we are landlocked. So if it doesn't come forward before 2026, I think that

00:08:16.640 that'll give enough time for one, people to collect signatures, if that's the case, and then

00:08:21.900 to actually be educated on the pros and cons of both. So a lot of, I think actually, Corey used

00:08:31.720 the term. Eric, I think, was intimating it here about the concept of winning conditions. This is

00:08:37.960 a term, as best I know, was coined by Lucien Bouchard, who had led the Quebec independence

00:08:43.040 movement up to the 1995 referendum and then took on as premier after that. But, you know,

00:08:49.200 he took some pressure for not holding a third referendum. And his reply to that was that we

00:08:56.280 have to create winning conditions and i think that was actually no quebec has not yet had

00:09:02.100 its third referendum but for good reason it would not have won if you're going to have that

00:09:06.380 referendum you have to have winning conditions and this is one of the things the independence

00:09:10.060 movement in alberta um in its less sophisticated forms is uh strained to understand that there

00:09:17.640 it's not a good idea to hold this unless you've at least got a chance of winning um in my uh you

00:09:24.520 Corey and I have both led hopeless Thermopylae-style struggles for independence with our own parties over the years, but I had put together, when I was doing my own time in it, the plan was called Equality or Independence, because I do not believe Albertans will vote for independence unless we have exhausted all reasonable hope to achieve equality and fairness within Canada first.

00:09:51.140 I think there was a 0% chance

00:09:53.520 it ever happens

00:09:54.360 but for Albertans not paying attention

00:09:57.220 to this stuff 24 hours a day

00:09:59.420 they don't necessarily

00:10:01.280 know this so I think Smith by putting up

00:10:03.200 her demands which are 1.00

00:10:05.020 eminently reasonable they don't include

00:10:07.320 any constitutional reform and for me

00:10:08.920 my minimum list includes constitutional

00:10:11.020 reform but hers did not so they're

00:10:13.080 actually quite achievable

00:10:13.960 if the liberals were interested in keeping

00:10:16.660 Alberta in Canada

00:10:17.780 but I see this

00:10:20.140 if you believe that she actually

00:10:23.240 does want to move towards independence

00:10:24.460 as creating winning conditions

00:10:26.240 or at a minimum

00:10:28.220 trying

00:10:29.600 do you think this is

00:10:33.000 making a real last ditch

00:10:35.180 effort at equality

00:10:36.260 before independence or

00:10:38.740 do you think it's also

00:10:41.080 perhaps creating so-called

00:10:42.920 winning conditions that if Ottawa

00:10:45.040 rejects these

00:10:46.300 very fairly easy to

00:10:49.040 meet, I shouldn't say easy, but very reasonable to meet demands to achieve at least some semblance

00:10:55.160 of equality within Canada, if it can't be met, that it's setting the independence movement up

00:11:00.760 for its winning conditions in that 2026 independence referendum.

00:11:04.600 Yes, I think it is. The reaction to the election result last week was one of frustration and

00:11:13.320 disgust. And in that atmosphere, you can get a lot of people, yeah, we need to separate,

00:11:18.020 let's get out of here we never take it seriously that feeling doesn't have long legs eventually

00:11:26.740 people say well you know what about the canada pension plan what about the you know i'm going

00:11:30.900 to get my oas what about this what about that i we've got to do something for the indians that's

00:11:38.660 going to that's going to need to work into this it's all too much trouble so all of those kinds

00:11:44.340 of objections have to be met with a reasonable solution before people are going to really take

00:11:54.900 this seriously and the other thing which would be a winning condition which is not really in

00:12:01.540 the hands of alberta to create but is in the hands of mr carney is whether the energy industry and

00:12:10.260 And the mining industry and the bauxite and Saskatchewan, but, you know, are they going to let us make some money here?

00:12:19.100 Because if Mr. Carney actually wanted to precipitate the conditions where Albertans would go to the polls and choose some other arrangement than the present one,

00:12:30.560 And that's all he would have to do is to renege on the promises that he made during the election that there would be progress on these files.

00:12:41.300 There would be pipelines, there would be energy corridors, there would be encouragement to invest in fossil fuels, which is something that he's fought against for decades.

00:12:50.960 but if he will do those things then actually i think that there's some chance that he would

00:12:58.080 find a willing dance partner in daniel speth certainly he would remove from her the objection

00:13:05.520 that ottawa never listens because if ottawa starts listening she really can't go very far down the 1.00

00:13:12.320 the independent stripe.

00:13:18.400 Erica,

00:13:20.000 what's your sense within the caucus

00:13:23.160 right now?

00:13:24.940 Behind closed doors, we know

00:13:27.080 it's very

00:13:29.080 far from strong

00:13:31.300 support for unconditional

00:13:32.880 federalism. We've had Jason

00:13:34.880 Stephan, for all

00:13:36.840 intents and purposes, declare himself for independence.

00:13:39.640 I mean, 99%

00:13:41.240 end of the way there. And I think he's trying to leave a toe on the ledge, but for all intents and

00:13:47.480 purposes, he's in. Behind closed doors, we both know it's less than public. How many, if you could

00:13:55.500 gander a guess, like how much are we going to see currently elected politicians actually come out

00:14:01.120 and declare themselves for independence here? I don't think you're going to see a lot. I was

00:14:06.520 actually very surprised that Jason Stephan did that. I've had conversations with them. There was

00:14:11.060 the Central Alberta leaders dinner last week, kind of right as all of this was coming out.

00:14:17.760 And so, you know, I think a lot want to have the conversation because they're hearing from

00:14:22.100 their constituents since the election, how frustrated they are. They want the government

00:14:27.200 to push Ottawa and really stand up, like almost Hail Mary it. Like we, I think you're right. We

00:14:34.020 want equality to leave. And so with the equality piece, they don't want to leave any stone unturned.

00:14:43.980 And so I would guess that most of the sentiment, because it does also equal their future fate as a

00:14:49.880 caucus, as a governing party, what they look like in their career space, also is something that

00:14:57.080 they've got to balance, right, through this. But I think most you will see defer, as the premier

00:15:03.340 kind of has to the Albertans and in that case each of their constituents. I do know though that many

00:15:09.560 of those people in central Alberta that were at the supper were very keen to have this conversation

00:15:15.340 so I don't think it's going to go away. I think if we've learned anything from COVID and I think

00:15:21.520 the premier was speaking to that tone a little bit during her remarks on Monday was that you know

00:15:27.940 this is not divisive this is not about fear-mongering either side let's let this process take

00:15:32.500 of course, and not alienate people for feeling one way or the other.

00:15:36.220 I suspect that that's where, like COVID, individuals were wanting their elected

00:15:41.580 officials in their MLA to say one way or the other.

00:15:45.500 But I think what they're going to do is put it back to them, which they couldn't

00:15:49.940 do during COVID and say, well, you get to decide, not me.

00:15:53.860 I was elected under a very different mandate, very different scenario than Quebec

00:15:59.260 was, which was a party elected on a mandate to separate.

00:16:03.380 And so I think these guys are going to be way quieter.

00:16:05.540 I hope that caucus confidentiality remains quite top of mind for everyone

00:16:10.420 because this is a very hard thing, probably the hardest thing that Premier

00:16:14.000 Smith is going to have to navigate and also very difficult for Prime Minister

00:16:18.800 Carney because you're right, there's a lot of things that as Albertans we

00:16:23.340 believe is completely obtainable.

00:16:25.420 However, in order to keep government, he has to work with anti-pipeline, anti-Alberta resource entities in both the bloc to get one of Premier's demands, which is access to tidewater out the east, and the NDP who hate pipelines.

00:16:43.140 So it's going to be challenging for both our provincial and our federal leader.

00:16:49.240 I really do have a common interest in, actually, they have a common interest in developing the

00:16:54.360 energy industry because Mr. Carney has inherited a shambles of an economy, thanks to Mr. Trudeau,

00:17:02.040 and he's promised to put it back. He says he's going to transform Canada, and if he's talking

00:17:07.800 economics, which I hope is all he is talking, then he is going to need what Alberta can bring

00:17:14.120 to the table right so you have to remember that alberta has one of their conditions to basically 0.69

00:17:19.220 create a pipeline through quebec and that was something that the quebec bloc and the liberals

00:17:25.280 have said we're going to respect the sovereign nation of quebec so i think that's where it gets

00:17:29.700 sticky absolutely i think through manitoba um through i think it's called the port port of

00:17:35.700 churchill you've also got out west i think those are all fair games but i i think he's gonna have

00:17:41.060 to dance very very um delicately with his relationship with quebec so uh there was

00:17:48.460 something you said earlier you hope uh caucus confidentiality remains intact i very much hope

00:17:53.000 the opposite of that from my job here uh remember this is the home of weekly leaks where we live

00:17:59.640 blogged uh ucp caucus meetings when jason kenney was the premier um i the caucus was extremely

00:18:07.220 divided at that time, uh, over COVID. Uh, I imagine they're going to be quite divided over this. Um,

00:18:14.420 uh, but it'll be, it'll be difficult for her to keep that party intact because there's going to 1.00

00:18:19.460 be unconditional Federalists. There's going to be people committed to independence and then there's

00:18:23.780 going to be people in the middle and then the people who, the more careerist politicians among

00:18:28.900 them who want to go

00:18:30.960 wherever's going to win.

00:18:34.660 Corey, let's talk about

00:18:36.640 the

00:18:38.860 organization around this stuff right now.

00:18:40.780 Actually, let's bring

00:18:43.060 kind of the Saskatchewan side

00:18:44.660 into this conversation.

00:18:46.600 So, polling

00:18:48.800 shows that it's a minority 0.97

00:18:51.060 in both Alberta and Saskatchewan at present.

00:18:54.660 I mean,

00:18:54.960 the opponents of independence like the claimants 0.65

00:18:56.780 say, quote, fringe minority, yet

00:18:58.860 independence in Alberta and Saskatchewan

00:19:01.020 scores higher than the combined NDP and

00:19:02.920 Liberal vote. So, you know, if independent

00:19:05.040 supporters are a fringe minority, then

00:19:06.840 so are leftists in

00:19:08.740 Alberta and Saskatchewan. But

00:19:10.840 Saskatchewan's

00:19:12.900 always been kind of the much quieter

00:19:14.480 of the two big fronts on independence

00:19:16.740 in the West. That appears

00:19:18.880 to be changing.

00:19:22.660 They do have citizens' initiative legislation

00:19:24.740 on the books, I believe, but it is even

00:19:26.700 higher than Alberta's presently

00:19:28.700 passed legislation before it's getting amended it is not alberta's got for all intents and purposes

00:19:34.780 impossible saskatchewan has like actually impossible you will never get you couldn't

00:19:40.480 get the signatures if you were declaring puppies in rainbow day um the ndp with uh their leader

00:19:47.420 carlo feck have been really trying to kick this up uh debating it in the legislature

00:19:51.760 sure uh i don't expect to see scott moe call the referendum himself but you know is there any sign

00:19:59.280 that you know is the saskatchewan government's going to amend their legislation so that you

00:20:03.420 could have a citizen's initiative ballot on this i haven't seen a sign of it i don't needy nests

00:20:08.100 when operating with that group out in saskatchewan trying to uh move the party to fixing that

00:20:13.700 legislation as alberta did i think that pressure is going to come now that that premier smith has

00:20:18.120 set that precedent and it has exposed that legislation. I'm sure a lot of Saskatchewan

00:20:22.160 citizens now are looking at it for the first time and realizing, wow, this is a, this is,

00:20:25.920 this legislation is trash. If we're interested in this, we need it amended. Uh, I, sorry, I think

00:20:31.380 it's very possible. I mean, it's a good wedge issue between, uh, the, well, in their case,

00:20:37.120 the Saskatchewan party and the NDP. And as you said, when they're trying to dismiss the

00:20:42.380 independence movement when we're talking 30 percent that you can't dismiss that uh you know

00:20:48.460 revolutions have started with much smaller numbers than that before and it's 30 percent of the general

00:20:52.540 public a majority of saskatchewan party voters and a majority of ucp voters which is why the ucp has

00:20:58.840 to respond to this and why i think the saskatchewan party is going to be under a ton of pressure to

00:21:03.740 respond yeah well and premier smith gave a good way to put take the pressure off in a sense anyways

00:21:08.460 where the premier doesn't have to take a stance on one side or the other of independence,

00:21:12.060 just saying, I'm putting the mechanism for these decisions in the hands of the citizens.

00:21:16.180 Here it is. We understand that our current legislation was inadequate.

00:21:20.560 This is the amendment. And if the citizens choose to go in this route and have that sort of referendum,

00:21:25.800 we will hold it and we'll see what they think and we can put it to rest.

00:21:28.820 It gives the premiers a bit of a note in a sense. Just keep saying it's up to the people.

00:21:32.540 uh nigel i think the ndp in both alberta and saskatchewan is in a better political position

00:21:40.740 because their voters almost entirely agree they're unconditional federalists uh whereas

00:21:47.880 ucp voters in alberta sask party voters there uh are quite divided majorities of voters in both

00:21:56.120 parties are in support of independence right now but the there is a significant minority of sass

00:22:02.980 party and ucp voters uh who are at least at present still committed to federalism uh a smaller

00:22:11.040 minority of their are probably unconditional federalists um i don't think danielle smith can

00:22:18.360 remain neutral forever i think she can for some time uh but i i think the pressure is going to

00:22:23.840 grow. I would be very surprised

00:22:26.020 if the UCP at its next convention

00:22:27.760 does not, its members

00:22:29.840 don't actually vote outright for independence

00:22:31.860 because that's where the members are. The caucus is probably

00:22:33.920 not as far there and the premier

00:22:35.800 is not there yet. But its

00:22:37.500 voters are and I think its members are.

00:22:41.040 Could she stay

00:22:41.960 neutral on this to the end?

00:22:43.880 She has to as long as she possibly

00:22:46.020 can and hopefully that's

00:22:47.920 to the end. Don't forget the oath of office

00:22:49.880 that she took. Why insert

00:22:51.980 to the system that we have?

00:22:53.840 The bloc take the same oath,

00:22:56.520 so I don't think it's really worth the scrap of paper

00:22:58.540 it's written on if the bloc could take it.

00:23:00.060 The difference is that when the bloc does it,

00:23:02.100 they have their fingers crossed behind their back.

00:23:04.820 I think that Daniel was entirely straight up on that.

00:23:08.660 Keep in mind that the oath is to the crown and whatnot,

00:23:12.260 it's not the Pledge of Allegiance

00:23:14.640 to the indivisibility of the Canadian state.

00:23:18.700 I don't think there is anything in the oath

00:23:20.300 that says you have to be an unconditional...

00:23:23.840 The people who want a Republic of Saskatchewan or a Republic of Alberta will be sorry to hear that because that's that's what that's what they're they're pitching.

00:23:33.640 Okay, but I guess we have to go a little bit.

00:23:37.240 Independence does not necessarily mean republic.

00:23:39.240 It very possibly does, but not necessarily.

00:23:41.560 Actually, I think if it remained a monarchy, it would make life very much easier dealing

00:23:47.240 with the indigenous element to all of this, which is, of course, the treaties six, seven,

00:23:51.960 and eight that run across BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan, and into the Northwest Territories.

00:23:57.320 so i mean those are they're one of the real concerns as to how you handle the indigenous

00:24:04.520 component it it's there people are going to be right now very enthusiastic about it but as you

00:24:14.060 said yourself creating the winning conditions is necessary and these are some of the some of the

00:24:21.440 difficulties and the obstacles that you're going to have to work out and the people are going to

00:24:26.220 have to be satisfied on specifically to danielle smith's strategy 0.52

00:24:35.020 she as a premier having taken an oath to the queen that or to the king i should say can't stand there 0.77

00:24:45.500 and and hold up her hand and say i'm all for breaking up the country very very difficult

00:24:51.180 position to hold and justify so in some ways what she had if that is truly how what she wants and 0.96

00:24:57.740 how she feels she too has to create the winning conditions for her which is to have it come from

00:25:05.660 the people this is what we want we want a referendum you have the referendum you get a

00:25:10.540 pro-independence result at that point she can move um you're right that it's going to be difficult 0.79

00:25:18.060 but she should be able to do it i'd i'd like to differ i think in fact i i think she needs to

00:25:26.940 lead the movement i i think we need our i mean being a leader means listening to those under you

00:25:36.060 you know executing the will of the people but also leading the people to where you believe

00:25:41.420 is best for them to go when you've when you've considered all the options so being being a

00:25:46.140 A successful leader means knowing when to take your position

00:25:49.640 in the front of the parade.

00:25:51.400 Fair enough.

00:25:52.260 And it's probably not quite there yet.

00:25:55.140 Not there yet.

00:25:56.120 Assuming that that is what she wants.

00:25:58.600 Well.

00:25:59.420 I don't actually have the little electric wires

00:26:01.680 into the back of her brain that give me the confidence to say.

00:26:04.940 No.

00:26:05.160 But also, I mean, it'll be interesting to see,

00:26:09.280 does putting this to a citizen's initiative

00:26:11.900 but staying neutral, Erica, keep,

00:26:16.140 these small and newborn independence parties at bay,

00:26:21.240 or is she going to have to take an even harder line?

00:26:24.260 We've got, I mean, Alberta has a cottage industry

00:26:26.960 of these parties.

00:26:28.640 I've led one, Corey's led one.

00:26:30.460 They haven't tended to go anywhere,

00:26:32.400 but there was never the winning conditions as well.

00:26:36.240 There's a lot of reasons they may have not gone anywhere.

00:26:39.100 You've got the Republicans now,

00:26:40.880 which is the renamed Buffalo Party.

00:26:42.720 seems to be

00:26:45.940 at least successful in collecting email addresses.

00:26:49.200 But

00:26:49.460 don't sneeze at that.

00:26:52.000 That's actually a part of building your list.

00:26:53.140 I didn't. That was Corey.

00:26:54.800 That was Corey sneezing.

00:26:58.760 Sneezing.

00:26:59.640 Yeah.

00:27:02.080 It's a part of the process.

00:27:03.920 Do you think she's gone far enough to head

00:27:05.860 these parties off at the pass?

00:27:08.000 Or do you think as this

00:27:09.760 progresses, she's going to be

00:27:11.580 push to take, potentially join a direct side in this? I think for the time being, she has pushed

00:27:20.440 hard enough. I mean, she's definitely doing more than anyone else. We haven't heard this same,

00:27:26.520 and I am in the beautiful city of Regina right now. And so she has done more than Scott Moe,

00:27:33.900 Premier Scott Moe has come out and said. So I think she and she has the legislative mechanisms

00:27:39.240 in place. So I think she's got some runway here, but you're right. Should this come to fruition,

00:27:45.860 should there be a citizen-led initiative that's actually coming to table, then I think she'll

00:27:51.300 have to make a move. But for a lot of folks that are kind of in the middle that want to have the

00:27:55.400 conversation, might support and sign up to have the citizen-led initiative referendum question,

00:28:04.720 I think want her to also be premier right now and continue to try and fix the broken relationship with Ottawa.

00:28:14.060 And I think if she says we're I'm pro separation, that's kind of dead on arrival.

00:28:21.040 And I think she's going to probably piss off more people than she pleases by doing it too soon. 1.00

00:28:25.880 So I do think she has a lot of runway. I know we were talking about what's on the ground in Saskatchewan of talks.

00:28:32.860 I got here late last night, had supper with my nana.

00:28:36.820 She didn't bring it up, so we didn't talk about it.

00:28:39.380 But I am going to be talking to folks the next couple of days and see if it's the same

00:28:42.620 sentiment.

00:28:43.220 I have had many of them reach out saying, do we have to move to Alberta following this

00:28:48.740 election results on last Monday?

00:28:52.440 But I don't get the same.

00:28:54.300 But growing up, being born and raised in Saskatchewan, there's never been or I never had the pro

00:29:00.100 Saskatchewan or like Saskatchewan first Canada second mentality that I do see in Alberta so

00:29:06.020 I think it's going to be a different approach that we see from Saskatchewan they're also the

00:29:10.440 size of Edmonton so um you know what does that look like versus uh what we see from the masses

00:29:17.280 in Alberta but to answer your question I think Premier's good for now I think she's kind of

00:29:22.740 coming out came out of the gate properly so to address it because it's a real conversation

00:29:27.520 I don't know if that's the case with Saskatchewan,

00:29:29.320 but I'll keep my ears to the ground.

00:29:31.020 I look forward to you reporting back on how that's going.

00:29:34.560 A good column in the works, perhaps.

00:29:38.120 Okay, we'll tie off this conversation,

00:29:40.760 just this last question to you, Nigel.

00:29:43.640 In the Premier's address,

00:29:46.240 she said that any referendum question on independence

00:29:52.280 will have to respect Indian Métis 1.00

00:29:55.580 and Inuit

00:29:57.580 rights

00:29:58.280 because you know we've had the chiefs

00:30:01.700 the three treaty

00:30:03.660 chiefs

00:30:04.340 pretty strenuously adamantly against

00:30:07.700 this

00:30:08.020 and that raised a

00:30:11.640 question and we had one of our

00:30:13.720 reporters in Edmonton put that

00:30:15.740 question, the new Premier Smith

00:30:17.280 saying okay well you said that the question

00:30:19.520 would have to respect treaty rights

00:30:21.220 well what would that question look like? Would we

00:30:23.580 have to negotiate

00:30:25.380 with

00:30:26.960 NATO bans

00:30:31.100 and nations before

00:30:33.360 and then include that in the question?

00:30:35.500 Because the Clarity Act states

00:30:37.340 you have to have a clear question and receive

00:30:39.180 a clear majority on it.

00:30:41.260 Okay. And then afterwards

00:30:43.000 you get into consultations

00:30:45.000 and negotiations with Ottawa,

00:30:47.520 other provinces, First Nations,

00:30:49.540 that kind of thing. That comes after.

00:30:51.860 So we put the question to her

00:30:52.960 very succinctly.

00:30:56.180 what does that question look like and she didn't really give him i don't i didn't think she had

00:31:01.540 to agree at all no no there wasn't let's be honest about it she she didn't want to deal with it so she

00:31:08.340 basically said well right now we don't have a referendum so talking about a question is kind of

00:31:13.140 uh too pointless but you know there's quite a lot in i'm not sure really why she said that

00:31:20.660 other than perhaps to just establish a position to which she could refer back when people hostile

00:31:28.980 to the idea would say, well, Premier Smith, you can't have independence because you've got

00:31:35.620 natives and your indigenous people here in Alberta. They have a treaty obligation to the crown, and

00:31:41.540 nothing can possibly ever happen because of them. I don't think that's a position that she would

00:31:46.420 except if she was pro-independence um it was curious that she she named indigenous people

00:31:53.700 the metis and inuit anyway we don't have any inuit alberta i did i didn't say that because i'm i'm

00:32:01.220 not positive but i mean like if you're giving me a bet i'll give you good odds yeah there's

00:32:05.860 i mean the odd one at the university of alberta studying psychology or so you've got the edmonton

00:32:10.900 eskimos you've those are i think you've probably got more inuit than the eskimos there than you

00:32:16.500 have anywhere else in alberta so look um the situation of the metis is perhaps a little more

00:32:23.940 complicated they've never had treaties with the dominion government or with the the government

00:32:31.460 of canada as it's now constituted now alberta gave them their settlements in northern alberta

00:32:39.060 So I suppose their ownership of land is guaranteed.

00:32:43.700 And I can't see how this would be.

00:32:46.340 Whatever the government of Alberta is, they have a relationship with it,

00:32:50.180 which would give them the security that they want.

00:32:53.380 There are other special rights they now have that may have been created by federal legislation.

00:32:59.940 But I don't think this is a constitutional issue.

00:33:03.460 And then, of course, you come to the indigenous, have their treaties, and they must be respected.

00:33:11.900 But that doesn't mean they have or should have a veto over the separation independence movement in Alberta, if that's what comes about.

00:33:24.740 So Canada could transfer all its treaty obligations to Alberta, just as we've got to press them for this.

00:33:33.980 I mean, back in 1982, Great Britain transferred all of its constitutional obligations regarding Canada to Canada.

00:33:43.460 So, you know, we pass these things along like a...

00:33:47.340 Yeah, we've done it before.

00:33:48.740 You know, we've done it before.

00:33:49.800 So this could be done in the amendment to the Canadian Constitution that re-designated whatever kind of status Alberta was going to have.

00:33:58.440 So, I mean, there certainly is an issue in there.

00:34:01.660 I don't know why she brought it up now other than just as a little position to pull back on.

00:34:07.100 I think she brought it up because of all the open letters that were coming and she couldn't get away with it.

00:34:11.280 So I think she weaved it into as like, I recognize that these individuals have come forward.

00:34:16.620 They're issuing, you know, letters and publicly making statements about this.

00:34:21.380 I think it was just to maybe say, listen, I heard you.

00:34:24.600 That's great.

00:34:25.240 We'll consider that.

00:34:26.820 I don't think she was saying anything except getting ahead of or addressing something that was going to come up in questions.

00:34:32.440 Right.

00:34:32.680 She knew a reporter was going to ask.

00:34:34.680 So she just can now point to her statement and said, hey, I'm listening.

00:34:38.440 Right.

00:34:38.900 Yeah.

00:34:39.340 Don't bother me about this again.

00:34:41.340 Yeah.

00:34:42.280 All right.

00:34:44.180 All right.

00:34:45.540 Well, our next topic's headline.

00:34:49.080 This was one recommended by the Western Center's Director of Operations,

00:34:52.600 Michelle Cundey.

00:34:54.140 So I'm passing the buck on the crudity of this one.

00:34:56.860 Elbows up, knees down.

00:34:58.160 Mark Carney in Washington.

00:35:00.580 Here, let's just play a quick little video of Mark Carney putting his elbows up.

00:35:14.880 okay well uh so you've seen uh okay so you've all seen it out there uh

00:35:22.000 elbows up was the you know you saw them going around doing the chicken dance during the

00:35:28.200 campaign looked like the chicken dance to me very undignified i'm never doing that again

00:35:32.400 um yeah oh please edit that out oh my god uh so uh you know tough talk from mark carney during

00:35:42.140 the campaign nigel uh he's gonna show the bad orange man he's gonna go down there tell him 0.97

00:35:48.100 what's what uh he went down and did what of course he had to do which is be reasonable and polite i

00:35:56.080 actually have no knock against actually what carney did there i think i think he accorded

00:36:00.900 himself reasonably well for the circumstances he did not pull a zelensky and you know sit there

00:36:08.200 like a petulant child

00:36:10.820 and interrupting and being a

00:36:12.800 jerk

00:36:13.280 ungrateful perhaps

00:36:16.320 he was actually very diplomatic

00:36:18.880 and nice but it's

00:36:20.800 not what he promised during

00:36:22.760 the campaign he was going to go down there and punch the orange 0.98

00:36:24.840 man in the face

00:36:25.480 well have you ever heard

00:36:28.620 a politician talk tough

00:36:30.800 on a campaign and then

00:36:32.500 not follow through afterwards

00:36:34.360 there's things you say on a campaign

00:36:36.180 oh daniel smith said she's gonna go fight on what she's actually tuckered with ottawa after

00:36:41.600 the election and during it so this is quite the opposite i think that no i look mr carney is uh

00:36:48.080 i think you had it right when you said that he conducted himself well it's all very well to say

00:36:54.160 that kind of thing on the campaign trail but if you actually go and pull a zelansky down in the 1.00

00:36:59.460 White House, a lot of support would become very muted here in Canada. People wouldn't appreciate

00:37:05.820 that. They didn't appreciate it when Justin Trudeau did stupid things. And Mr. Carney is

00:37:12.200 certainly trying to set himself apart from his predecessor. You'll notice there's no odd socks,

00:37:17.660 there's no reports of him whispering snide remarks about Mr. Trump to his friends and being picked up

00:37:24.500 on a live mic he conducted himself like a gentleman and uh and that's what was required

00:37:30.220 so i'm actually going to give him a pass on that it did worry me a bit when he started talking

00:37:37.100 about how he said he was elected to transform canada we met came on briefly touched on this

00:37:43.360 earlier in the program as long as he's talking about turning it into an energy superpower

00:37:49.280 well i'm with him all the way but if he is uh going to continue mr mr trudeau's experiments

00:37:57.120 in social exclusion then i'm that that's much more serious the one thing i will say about him by the

00:38:03.840 way and i even even if you even if you think he fell flat derek he had the grace to sit and listen

00:38:12.960 Trump talked for about 27 minutes he got three minutes and that other 27 minutes

00:38:21.780 were Trump and well you know Canada they've been wrecking us off for 200

00:38:27.080 billion dollars a year and they don't defend themselves I will always defend

00:38:30.660 Canada you see I've heard it so many times I could do it too he he watching

00:38:35.940 his body language you could just see he actually wanted to say something but

00:38:40.980 knew that that would be the wrong thing to do

00:38:43.000 it must have been

00:38:44.780 excruciating. Yeah

00:38:46.460 Corey

00:38:47.420 we have to give credit where it's due

00:38:50.940 I expect we're going to have

00:38:52.820 harsh words for Carney as he

00:38:54.720 as the rubber hits the road on governing here

00:38:56.520 but I mean

00:38:58.260 I think he conducted himself

00:39:00.980 as well as possible

00:39:02.700 under the circumstances

00:39:03.880 he got 3 minutes to 27

00:39:06.240 I think

00:39:08.840 he did it, I think he handled himself

00:39:10.700 fairly, pretty well.

00:39:14.120 But this is not

00:39:15.160 the Mark Carney who we saw dancing

00:39:17.080 with his elbows up.

00:39:19.940 He's an impression of a chicken.

00:39:21.280 He's showing himself, well, he's a pragmatist.

00:39:23.040 He's going to do what he feels

00:39:24.980 needs to be done, but that also applies to the election.

00:39:26.960 I'll say whatever I think I need to say

00:39:28.980 to get elected. That's what's more troublesome.

00:39:31.340 Having him follow through on his own

00:39:33.100 words, as we said, and go in there screaming with

00:39:34.940 Trump. I mean, Trump is a nightmare. I don't

00:39:36.940 envy anybody

00:39:38.740 dealing with him in any circumstance.

00:39:40.700 to go in and provoke him, we know isn't going to do anybody any bloody good.

00:39:44.220 But it also shows what else in Carney's campaign were words that he just uttered to get the votes

00:39:49.840 and we won't actually see a commitment from later.

00:39:54.040 And what did he mean when he said them?

00:39:56.040 Six words can have more than one reason.

00:39:58.800 So it's off to, in that sense, a bad start on following through with his promises,

00:40:03.000 but still a wise move when stepping into that lion's den.

00:40:06.280 uh erica i know this this might be just a cheap shot on my part um but i mean the legacy media

00:40:14.020 and even guys like us have been fairly complimentary in how carney uh conducted

00:40:19.520 himself in washington with trump um but i have a feeling that if pierre paulia had been there

00:40:26.560 and conducted himself exactly as if you know we kind of deep faked the video here and just

00:40:31.380 the polio's face on there uh he would be have been denounced as elbows down a traitor and a

00:40:37.960 sellout i thought i know that might be a bit too easy of a pot shot to take here but uh or maybe

00:40:44.380 i'm wrong tell me i'm wrong well i love telling you you're wrong so uh i will do that um no you

00:40:52.880 know what i i don't know in this case how if pierre would have conducted himself exactly as

00:40:58.680 Carney did, which I think was like, be the bigger adult in the room. And, you know, he challenged

00:41:04.900 Trump on some things like saying, you know, using his real estate analogy back at him and said,

00:41:09.740 some things are never for sale, which Canada is not. Like, I think he was very appropriate in

00:41:15.040 that meeting. I think the difference is like, I would hope Pierre would be the same type of

00:41:19.780 pragmatist in that meeting. So if he was though, the articles wouldn't have been like, you know,

00:41:25.620 stands toe to toe with Trump, it would have been an expected, which wasn't the case, I think for

00:41:31.240 Carney, like this was an introductory meeting. Let's just be clear, this wasn't expected that

00:41:36.600 there was tariffs being dropped coming out of this. And that wouldn't have been like, and I

00:41:41.280 think the difference is I think that might have been expected of Pierre Paglia by the mainstream

00:41:45.740 media. So had he conducted the same way as Carney, I think there would have been like less

00:41:50.640 rah, rah, this man's champion for going down to Trump and Trump's catering to him.

00:41:56.900 All Carney had to do was to not look like Justin Trudeau and be an adult in that room. And it's

00:42:02.460 clear that the narrative coming out of it is Trump likes Carney more than he likes Trudeau. But I

00:42:07.680 think there was everyone would qualify under that. I do think that the liberal media would have

00:42:14.740 pressed harder on like, why aren't there directives? Or when are you going to come out with

00:42:19.880 what happened in those other 90 minutes of your meeting that was private? Where can we expect

00:42:25.220 tariffs to be dropped? So I don't think they'd maybe criticize that initial meeting, but I think

00:42:29.520 they would be far more aggressive on, okay, what's next? Because they gave Carney an out on that and

00:42:35.100 are letting him have a two-day news cycle of wins that he didn't get mocked like Trudeau did,

00:42:42.440 where I don't think they would have given Pierre that grace. So I'm disagreeing with you, kind of.

00:42:47.580 No, I'm taking it to completely agree with everything I said.

00:42:50.120 Okay.

00:42:51.360 All right, well, we're going to go to our parting shots here.

00:42:54.840 We'll start with you, Erica.

00:42:58.080 Dear Doug Ford, you continue to be in Mark Carney's shadow

00:43:03.100 and just a guy in waiting, pretending to be a conservative,

00:43:07.160 going to run for the Liberal Party of Canada at some point.

00:43:11.180 Please grow up.

00:43:13.620 Wow.

00:43:14.220 This is why I try not to piss off Erica.

00:43:16.200 Okay.

00:43:17.420 Corey?

00:43:18.520 I just want to speak to our certain amount of the collection of chiefs of Alberta

00:43:22.980 who have been standing up and doing performative policy tearings

00:43:26.160 and screaming and shouting and asserting themselves.

00:43:29.420 It seems these are the same people who are standing up talking about

00:43:32.060 how Canada is a colonial, genocidal, loathsome state

00:43:36.140 that they're oppressed under and they're living in misery under.

00:43:39.020 But the first time somebody wants to actually change the system,

00:43:41.560 suddenly they're up as the strongest defenders of this colonial, genocidal state.

00:43:45.820 Pick a lane, Chief.

00:43:47.940 And by the way, your authority doesn't extend

00:43:50.020 outside of your reserve, so get over yourselves.

00:43:53.060 That's a

00:43:53.640 subtle dig in something else, too.

00:43:55.740 Okay. Nigel.

00:43:57.400 That is a shot. That is

00:43:59.240 very much a parting shot. I'll bring our

00:44:01.700 paperwork next to you.

00:44:02.680 Ever since the convoy,

00:44:05.940 as we know,

00:44:08.380 the federal government

00:44:09.460 spied on people's cell phones,

00:44:11.920 froze bank accounts,

00:44:13.060 uh the rcmp made unauthorized use of facial recognition technology and of course in the

00:44:22.220 years in between when we've seen canadian heritage giving out money to little fringe

00:44:27.020 groups to go and spy on their neighbors and see if they can find anything hateful going on

00:44:31.520 report back and get more money uh you know it's been a canada has come across as a surveillance

00:44:40.300 state and one with a definite point of view that the liberal party has established which is that

00:44:46.320 they're kind of left-wing progressive and out to marginalize people who are conservatives well look

00:44:51.920 so here's the latest uh one according to black locks they've just paid a whole bunch of money

00:44:58.160 to a consultant in england to do what go chase after pro-israel supporters not not hamas which

00:45:06.220 is actually closing problems

00:45:07.500 the people who spoke up in favor

00:45:10.160 of Israel. More bias from the Canadian

00:45:12.040 government brought to you

00:45:13.580 by Canadian Heritage.

00:45:16.880 Okay, well, I've gone back

00:45:18.180 and forth actually on what my party shot is.

00:45:22.800 Mine's actually on

00:45:24.020 Pierre Polyev today.

00:45:26.640 So, Joe Rogan

00:45:27.920 says that

00:45:30.120 he invited Pierre Polyev to

00:45:32.000 come on to his show. Some of the

00:45:33.960 other major

00:45:34.960 conservative podcasters

00:45:38.200 in the United States

00:45:39.440 invited him on.

00:45:41.680 Obviously, Paul Yeov did not take them up

00:45:44.060 on these invitations.

00:45:46.660 I think he

00:45:47.380 was

00:45:48.680 worried, perhaps

00:45:51.840 rightfully so, that that'd be seen as

00:45:53.840 oh, you're too close to these guys who like

00:45:55.800 Donald Trump and Republicans.

00:45:59.400 But, you know,

00:46:00.260 it's a parting of

00:46:01.700 the kind of courage he showed and not

00:46:03.920 kowtowing to the legacy media um but he's been afraid not entirely but he's been hesitant even

00:46:11.740 to go on canadian media he didn't do uh you know he never went on the rebel never went on the

00:46:17.800 standard uh so he didn't even talk to independent conservative uh media voices i don't think i

00:46:24.800 don't even think he went on the hub which is a very low risk one he didn't talk to any of them

00:46:28.240 because i think he's afraid of just being tarred with the trump and republican brush which every

00:46:33.840 Canadian conservative leader for all time

00:46:35.640 or at least, you know, post Stephen

00:46:37.700 Baker and Joe Clark has been

00:46:39.400 but I think

00:46:41.720 that was, I think that was a

00:46:43.740 mistake. It's obviously easy to

00:46:45.500 point out what's a mistake in our

00:46:47.740 armchair quarterback

00:46:49.320 positions in hindsight

00:46:51.180 but I think

00:46:53.880 that was a big mistake for him. That's

00:46:55.720 where people are. These are

00:46:57.460 massive audiences. It could have

00:46:59.760 helped him in Canada but even, you know,

00:47:01.780 say he had won the election. This would help

00:47:03.840 perhaps of uh to to build his credibility with an american audience which is which is very

00:47:09.020 important right now so uh polyup says he's trying to learn from what's happened and be ready for

00:47:16.240 the next time um he uh i think hopefully this is one of the things he's going to learn from here

00:47:23.200 i think that was a i don't think that was a big mistake all right cory nigel erica thank you very

00:47:30.660 much and thank all of you who have joined us today on the pipeline uh the western standard is

00:47:39.760 really one of the only uh i think i think we are the only major homegrown western independent uh

00:47:47.700 media outlet coming out of alberta right now one of the only ones in in the entire west

00:47:51.900 we rely on support from people like you to do what we do uh please go to westernstandard.news

00:47:58.880 right now. Click on subscribe. It's only $10 a month or $100 a year for complete access to all

00:48:04.740 Western Standard content and get past that pesky paywall that I know you guys like to complain

00:48:09.460 about when you hit. Thank you very much for joining us today and God bless the West.

00:48:28.880 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - May 08, 2025

The Alberta Revolution has begun

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