Western Standard - The Canadian justice system is in terminal condition

00:00:00.000 Good day

00:00:29.980 welcome to the cory morgan show getting into the dog days of summer mid-july now the stampede's

00:00:35.340 out of the way i don't have my excuse to wear jeans to work anymore so i just have my usual

00:00:40.940 poor wardrobe eventually we'll get a wardrobe department i can be dressed better but until then

00:00:45.020 uh blame the frugal ways of the western standard for not buying me a new sport coat all right lost

00:00:52.140 the cover though uh we're looking forward to i got a guest coming on tim hagstrom you've probably

00:00:55.980 seen some of those stories going on. He was, to say the least, roughly treated by the University

00:01:00.940 of Saskatchewan for daring to just try to question some of the policies of DEI and other exceptions

00:01:09.120 made, you know, I guess for exam lengths and things like that with students. He'll explain that

00:01:13.240 and now he's bringing a suit against the University of Saskatchewan. It's good to see people

00:01:17.340 not backing off in light of those sorts of things. I'll be checking in with Jen in a few minutes here

00:01:23.400 to get the latest on the news. And yes, I'll be talking. There's a lot of justice things going on

00:01:29.360 today, I guess you could say. So good to see you guys checking in there. Gord Tulk, North Run

00:01:35.460 Greater and Paradoxy. Gord saying terminal, really? Gord, it's social media, they're headlines,

00:01:41.600 and yes, they are eye catchers. And actually, I'm going to start though. I mean, I appreciate the

00:01:45.840 questions on what's got me wound up and what tells why I feel that our justice system is terminal

00:01:52.700 and broken. This is something that's been making the news

00:01:57.120 recently. So on July 29th, 2023, and I'm only going to

00:02:01.540 pronounce his first name once, Rukanesha, and they call him

00:02:05.340 Nakunda, but he was stabbed to death by a random stranger

00:02:08.380 when he tried to ride the LRT in Edmonton. He was 54 years

00:02:13.000 old. He's left seven children behind. Ironically, he'd escaped

00:02:17.120 the violent, impoverished world of Congo, only to be murdered 0.96

00:02:20.660 due to Canada's pathetic justice system. 0.96

00:02:23.880 Jamal Wheeler killed Nakunda in cold blood. 0.98

00:02:26.880 He didn't know his victim

00:02:27.740 and he wasn't provoked by his victim. 0.98

00:02:30.740 Wheeler has a thing for trying to kill people 0.76

00:02:32.500 at LRT stations. 0.82

00:02:33.700 Yeah, he's been doing this for years.

00:02:35.540 He'd been convicted with attacking people

00:02:37.600 with pepper spray at one station.

00:02:39.000 He'd been convicted for pushing a person

00:02:40.380 onto the train tracks at another station

00:02:42.140 after he beat on him.

00:02:43.540 And he'd been convicted of attacking people

00:02:44.900 with an ax at a station.

00:02:46.580 What do we do?

00:02:47.240 We kept letting him out.

00:02:49.200 limp-wristed sentencing ensured Wheeler was released repeatedly until he finally managed

00:02:55.300 to kill a man. Now Wheeler has reached the apex of his criminal career so far. He's stolen the

00:03:01.340 life from an innocent man. So what was his sentence? Well, he's going to be free in four

00:03:05.660 and a half years to kill somebody else, folks. Rest assured he won't be reformed and another 0.51

00:03:09.860 innocent person or people will pay the ultimate price for this. Anybody who's followed court

00:03:15.040 proceedings for violent chronic offenders knows the usual lines of defense. He was Métis and

00:03:19.920 suffered due to colonialism. He was an addict. He had a rough upbringing, blah, blah, blah. You know 0.99

00:03:25.440 what? I couldn't care less. When it gets to sentencing for criminals, the only thing that

00:03:31.160 should be taken into consideration is public safety. How the criminal got there in the first

00:03:35.460 place is irrelevant. Wheeler is clearly so dangerous he should never be free again, yet he

00:03:40.460 will be, and he will re-offend. I do understand. We must study what creates violent repeat offenders.

00:03:46.740 It's important to learn so we might hopefully prevent some violent crimes rather than react to

00:03:51.120 them. Once a person has become a habitual offender, though, and we've identified them, it's time to

00:03:55.900 write them off from society. Reforming criminals must be the priority with new offenders. The best

00:04:01.160 outcome we can all see is that a person has gone off the rails but used their time incarcerated to

00:04:05.300 better themselves and become a functional citizen upon release. We should provide the resources to

00:04:10.320 assist with that rehabilitation in that case and the investment will often be well worth it.

00:04:15.480 But when the efforts for reform fail and the offender becomes chronic, then it's time to

00:04:20.300 accept reality and remove them from the public, possibly indefinitely. The success rate in

00:04:25.020 reforming chronic offenders is terribly low and once the criminals reach that status, the safety

00:04:29.120 and rights of the public must come before those of the offender. It's not just chronic violent

00:04:33.800 criminals who must be incarcerated for long term. Repeat offenders from thieves to drug dealers

00:04:37.720 need to be removed as well. The cost and societal damage from career criminals can't be understated,

00:04:43.920 even if they're directly violent. They cause mistrust, stress, and damage. They've also put

00:04:48.520 the public at risk as they take up law enforcement resources as they're constantly arrested and

00:04:52.560 released. Study after study indicates the vast majority of crimes are committed by a minority

00:04:57.820 of chronic offenders. It stands to reason if we can keep that minority locked up, they can't 0.91

00:05:02.740 re-offend. How many times have we got to read about some burglar or car thief that's convicted

00:05:06.580 for their 30th, 50th, or 100th events, never mind the multiple murderers out there. The cost to

00:05:12.300 incarcerate, hey, it doesn't have to be that high when it's accepted that that inmate's never going

00:05:15.540 to be released. Resources then don't need to be wasted on rehabilitation, and facilities can be

00:05:20.480 constructed in isolated regions to inexpensively prevent escapes. Call it gulags, if you will.

00:05:26.760 The criminals had a choice, their victims didn't. And no, I don't support capital punishment. I still

00:05:32.080 don't. I don't trust our legal system or government enough to give it the power to kill a citizen.

00:05:35.300 and I do support hundred-year sentences, though.

00:05:37.620 The concept of locking up a human forever is a hard one to accept.

00:05:41.600 I can accept that, though, more than watching people being victimized

00:05:44.940 and often killed by criminals we already had in custody and then released.

00:05:49.180 Hey, if a magic pill is invented which cures a chronic criminal,

00:05:52.160 then we can reconsider their interminable incarceration.

00:05:55.000 Until then, though, it's time to warehouse them once we've identified them.

00:05:59.020 Some are secure for the sake of public safety.

00:06:01.580 Rest assured, it'll have a much more positive impact upon crime

00:06:04.860 and crime reduction than chasing people around to seize their antiquated duck hunting guns.

00:06:09.880 When Canada has become more unsafe than the Congo, we know it's time for a reality check. 0.91

00:06:16.000 And yes, Gord, that's why I say it's terminally broken. When we got a guy like that who's been

00:06:21.020 in custody and released him and let him kill somebody, and we're going to let him out to 0.79

00:06:24.640 kill somebody else in four and a half years, the system's terminal. All right, that's my rant to 0.88

00:06:30.100 get things off on a good note. How's it going, Jen? I'm doing good, thanks, Corey. How you doing?

00:06:34.340 Good, this is the Western Standard's Jen Hodson, reporter extraordinaire, to give the news update because Steve's indisposed yet again.

00:06:40.900 Yet again.

00:06:42.420 Yeah, that's right. A bit under the weather for the last couple of weeks, unfortunately.

00:06:46.960 Yeah, there's been a bad bug going around.

00:06:47.920 Bad bug going around. Yeah, that's right.

00:06:50.240 So, Prime Minister Mark Carney opened the day with an announcement on steel.

00:06:55.400 And rather than going elbows up, quote-unquote, I guess President Trump, instead, there will be no changes to current trade measures.

00:07:03.180 However, Ottawa will be funneling in more than a billion into the steel industry on taxpayers' dime.

00:07:10.740 Ah, good.

00:07:11.320 Yes, so that'll be a billion towards helping the steel industry, helping steel firms,

00:07:19.100 and then another 70 million is going towards worker compensation and those that are affected by the tariffs.

00:07:25.860 Well, bailouts always work well.

00:07:27.140 I mean, look how well the cricket industry has developed in Ontario or the battery manufacturing plants.

00:07:31.400 I mean, that's all blossomed for us, hasn't it?

00:07:33.300 The cricket industry.

00:07:34.680 Yeah, you say true words, Corey.

00:07:37.540 And there are some tariff adjustments on non-U.S. countries.

00:07:42.160 Most notably, the Carney Liberals are cracking down on any country that has their steel poured in China.

00:07:49.560 So they're leveraging tariffs on those countries, I guess, to boost up Canada's tariff war.

00:07:56.260 Well, it's interesting.

00:07:57.060 China does provide a lot of steel to Canada.

00:08:00.160 I mean, fair enough.

00:08:01.240 If you're looking at protectionism, that's one of the targets you want to go.

00:08:04.000 You can see what he's doing, though.

00:08:05.140 He's fighting back against China and trying to avoid getting further into a deeper fight with President Trump.

00:08:10.100 Exactly.

00:08:10.880 Well, China's an issue as well.

00:08:12.660 It's a mess.

00:08:13.220 I don't envy Carney.

00:08:14.380 I don't like him, but he's in a tough, tough position.

00:08:16.820 I'll give him that.

00:08:17.640 Yeah, between China and the U.S. is definitely between Iraq and a hard place.

00:08:22.980 So next on the news is we're following the Alberta Next panel quite closely here at the Western Standard.

00:08:29.340 So this is a series of panelists that are hearing from Albertans about how they feel on certain issues, such as whether Alberta should have its own police force, whether Alberta should collect income tax rather than having it sent to Ottawa, and whether any kind of pension plan or taxes should be through the Alberta government rather than the federal government.

00:08:55.500 And, of course, this is as independent sentiment is on the rise here in Alberta, too.

00:09:02.140 So Premier Smith will be up in Edmonton this evening.

00:09:05.700 Yeah, I guess last night's meeting, the open mic got a little hot, as you kind of expect.

00:09:10.600 I mean, you know, she's going to have an interesting time tempering it from the people who are full out, just want an independence referendum, want out, or the people who want to talk about and examine some of those other proposals.

00:09:21.500 Yeah.

00:09:22.080 We'll see if maybe they change some of the structuring types.

00:09:25.500 meeting at Ebiton. Yeah, for sure. And there is nuance to this issue. Some people are approaching

00:09:30.760 it all or nothing. We've completely had enough. And as you say, others are willing to hear out

00:09:36.320 other sides and negotiate. So we'll see what this Alberta Next panel produces over the course of

00:09:41.380 the summer and into September even. Yeah, she's going to have her hands full. Yeah, that goes 0.95

00:09:45.100 for a while. Yeah, into the end of September, I believe. The end of September, she'll be coming

00:09:49.860 to Calgary with the Alberta Next Panel.

00:09:52.400 Ending in, well, we'll have to go to that.

00:09:54.560 Yeah, we'll have to go check that out.

00:09:56.160 Yeah, Western Standard Field Trip.

00:09:59.600 Canada's poverty line is being redefined.

00:10:02.160 So the federal government is looking at how they're actually going to define what it means

00:10:08.760 to be poor or living in poverty in Canada.

00:10:12.300 So we'll find out exactly what their definition is of that by the end of the fall.

00:10:17.320 Oh, boy.

00:10:17.760 I mean, I guess it depends on who they put behind it.

00:10:20.320 Usually you see that as a precursor when they want to start talking universal basic income.

00:10:24.340 Wow, yeah.

00:10:24.980 It depends on what you're going to measure it against.

00:10:26.640 I mean, if you're measuring against Eastern Africa, well, our poverty line is going to be quite low.

00:10:32.060 But if we measure it against domestic expectations, it's kind of an arbitrary thing.

00:10:37.820 Nobody's starving or being thrown out in the streets with our social safety net.

00:10:41.880 Where's poverty land? 0.98

00:10:43.100 That's right.

00:10:43.700 Well, they could also lower the poverty line to sort of frame it as though there aren't

00:10:49.220 so many Canadians that are struggling and living in poverty and then make themselves

00:10:53.700 look a little better.

00:10:54.700 Look at that.

00:10:55.700 We've pulled all these people out of poverty or at least we moved the line. 0.93

00:10:58.700 At least we moved the line.

00:10:59.700 Yeah.

00:11:00.700 Yeah.

00:11:01.700 You can keep winning when you move the goalpost for sure.

00:11:04.700 Yeah.

00:11:05.700 All right.

00:11:06.700 And as for wildfires, so the feds have finally for the first time ever sat down and calculated

00:11:12.400 just how much wildfires cost and released a report saying that it's running up into the billions.

00:11:19.480 And also they established the reasons why they say that there's wildfires rampant,

00:11:24.620 especially in Western Canada. Guess what the first reason is, Corey?

00:11:27.780 Oh, probably that we elect a conservative, but better than that, it would be climate change.

00:11:31.080 Climate change. Yeah, climate change precisely. And as well as population growth

00:11:37.520 was mentioned in that as well.

00:11:39.860 So turn this into an immigration discussion. Exactly. Yeah. So a bit of a surprising

00:11:44.760 acknowledgement by the feds there. And thirdly, they also conceded forest mismanagement played

00:11:52.300 a role. There is a role for forest management. I'm glad they brought that up, at least having

00:11:57.820 a bit of an honest look at some of it. Yeah, absolutely. It does actually seem like, you

00:12:01.820 know, it wasn't a widely published report, of course. It took some access to information

00:12:07.640 to get that out, of course. Yeah, and they'll cherry pick what portions they want to use later

00:12:11.840 on. Yeah. So will I. Oh, we're onto them, aren't we? Right on. Yeah. And finally, we're just

00:12:18.500 speaking a bit before I came on about supply management. So there's an interesting poll this

00:12:23.900 week released by Angus Reid that found that Quebec, which isn't really surprising, is the

00:12:30.040 province that most widely supports the supply management system, which has been dubbed the

00:12:35.180 dairy cartel. Basically, I'm sure you've talked about it a lot on your show. I don't need to go

00:12:40.060 into details with your audience, Corey. But it's a quota system for dairy farmers that results in 0.94

00:12:46.420 distortion of the market, a lot of milk products having to be dumped out, inability to sell to

00:12:52.220 American markets. And it's been widely disputed, especially in Western Canada, especially in

00:13:01.820 Alberta by Alberta farmers. So the poll shows that I think it was about a third or maybe it was

00:13:09.560 lower maybe 20 about 24% of Albertans if I remember correctly support the supply management

00:13:15.680 and many many are opposed. A third point of that study was whether you support you don't support

00:13:22.540 or if you're okay with it being used as a bargaining chip and a terra for. So at first

00:13:28.220 glance at the study, it shows that Canadians are widely opposed to it. However, if you look into

00:13:33.600 the details of it, a large percentage are actually willing to concede that it's not a crucial part of

00:13:42.120 our economy. Yeah, no, it's an interesting one. But I mean, the overall headline I see they've

00:13:46.960 been throwing out is that most Canadians support it. That makes you wonder, well, okay, who can

00:13:50.520 sign the poll? That's what you got to look into, folks. Because some people say, well, it's Angus

00:13:53.720 Reid? No, that's who did the poll. Who paid the bill? And then when you look at the framing of

00:13:58.800 the questions, but that's a whole separate discussion. Yeah, absolutely. And who was

00:14:01.920 polled, which in this case was the Angus Reid forum. And you have to ask, well, who is nudged

00:14:06.360 into signing up for the Angus Reid forum? That too. But it's interesting, at least it's come

00:14:10.740 into the discussion because most people, I think that's part of the problem is most people don't

00:14:13.600 even realize the system is there or what it does, but they are under threat now due to the trade.

00:14:18.840 And if they have heard of it, a lot of people just heard of it through framing from the federal

00:14:22.800 government right is this safety net and this protectionism for farmers and don't you want to

00:14:27.680 save the farmers right when there's a whole other side it's very nuanced issue as well absolutely

00:14:33.120 all right well thanks for that update you said there wasn't much news going on yeah i guess

00:14:36.640 there's always something to talk about right on okay well thank you again i'll let you get back

00:14:40.880 into that newsroom to dig out some more stories on this apparently slow news day yeah right my

00:14:46.000 pleasure thank you corey thank you so that is our jen hartson yeah as we said very prolific lots of

00:14:51.920 stories, lots of stuff coming up out there. That's where I like to remind you folks, we are an

00:14:56.400 independent media outlet. That means we don't take tax dollars. The reason we can pay Jen and me and

00:15:02.240 John over there and the rest of us is because of subscribers. So if you've already subscribed,

00:15:06.880 thank you very much. But if you haven't, get on there, guys, westernstandard.news slash

00:15:11.120 subscription, 10 bucks a month, just like an old newspaper subscription, keeps things rolling for

00:15:15.760 us, keeps us independent, keeps us accountable to you. It's $100 for a year. Take advantage of that

00:15:21.280 volume discount for it and then we can keep providing these stories that the other outlets

00:15:27.440 just don't want to cover and touch. This is the future of media is independent media.

00:15:33.440 Yeah you know that supply management thing the funny thing is I mean I'll just throw a point out

00:15:37.280 before I move on to my guest with this you know and they love claiming all these things a couple

00:15:41.840 for one they say it's saving the family farm well I put that out in a recent column no actually in

00:15:46.480 in the 70s, we had like 140,000 dairy farms in Canada. Now we have less than 10,000. So if supply

00:15:52.900 management was supposed to save the family farm, it's done a terrible job. By the way, Gord Tulk

00:15:57.880 did some good work on this. I'm going to talk about that a little later. As well, the other

00:16:04.180 aspects I'm seeing, they're saying we have to stop it to keep the supply management to stop the big

00:16:10.300 bad American products from coming up because they're terrible, terrible dairy and milk products

00:16:14.140 and they're awful and their quality is terrible. Really? Well, and again, if that's the case,

00:16:18.660 you don't need to be protected, do you? Do you not trust Canadian shoppers to pick the better

00:16:22.080 butter? It stinks. All right, let's move on and get to my guest here. And it's Tim Hagstrom. He's 0.99

00:16:31.580 had rough treatment, as I said, kind of at the start of the show from the University of Saskatchewan

00:16:37.480 or is it Saskatoon? The University of Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan, yes. Okay, it's in Saskatoon. Okay,

00:16:42.180 I should know these things as a Westerner, but I appreciate it.

00:16:45.500 You haven't taken it lying down, and you're taking the fight back to the university.

00:16:50.500 I guess we'll just kind of start, though.

00:16:51.920 What happened?

00:16:52.960 We'll go from there.

00:16:53.600 You're a law student.

00:16:55.080 There were some policies you wanted to question, and what went from there?

00:16:58.100 Well, thank you for having me on, Corey.

00:17:00.300 And I'm sorry I didn't get the memo about not wearing jeans in your office.

00:17:03.820 Oh, well, you can't see that from there.

00:17:04.940 You never mention that.

00:17:05.900 I mean, I've done some shows with no pants, but they don't need to know that over there.

00:17:09.960 We'll leave it at that.

00:17:11.040 So, yes, this started when I was in the third year of law school in my winter semester in 2022.

00:17:19.860 And I'd just come back from an exchange in Ottawa in the fall and learned that there was a point of great contention among my classmates,

00:17:27.960 which had to do with an exam accommodation policy, because there is one policy, among others,

00:17:34.880 for law students at the University of Saskatchewan that is only available to students who self-declare as Indigenous.

00:17:41.040 I want to be clear about this. I never took a view on that policy. But what really concerned

00:17:47.320 me at the time, once I talked to a number of students who are really riled up about this,

00:17:52.200 is I saw students forming into two different factions. And people from opposite factions

00:17:57.840 were adopting these attitudes that I thought were quite corrosive. They didn't want to talk

00:18:02.220 to each other. They didn't see, you know, the highest that could be said or didn't want to

00:18:08.040 see that in the other side. So that's what I spoke out about. I read out a letter that I'd

00:18:14.660 written to my classmates. You can find it online. And I got punished for that.

00:18:22.460 Yeah. And I mean, it's indicative of a bigger trend. You looked at things from that traditional

00:18:27.760 view. It's the institution of higher learning. It's an area where there's supposed to be

00:18:30.760 discourse. Or if we want to go back to the ancient Greeks, you know, you're supposed to be

00:18:33.960 philosophizing and sharing different notions even if you differ and that concept is really quite

00:18:39.580 lost from most post-secondary institutions now it seems it's a bad group think approach.

00:18:44.960 Well that's exactly what I'm fighting to defend and I really believe in that so

00:18:49.720 the case we have now at the Saskatchewan Court of King's Bench is quite interesting because

00:18:55.720 we've got two expert reports now to explain concepts are going to be important in this

00:19:02.060 litigation. So one expert report is on the recognized principles of academic freedom,

00:19:06.840 because the University of Saskatchewan Act, which gives the university its powers,

00:19:11.480 requires that the Senate, the board, and the council do things having regard to the

00:19:16.200 recognized principles of academic freedom. And this expert report paints a picture of

00:19:21.020 what I believe in, which is a community of scholars and students who are openly and sincerely

00:19:26.140 really discussing things where the moral and intellectual autonomy of every individual is

00:19:31.780 prized. And to my mind, this is the only way that a university can fulfill its promise to society,

00:19:38.340 which is to discover knowledge and transmit it and not get stuck in attitudes that prevent

00:19:45.780 people from looking for their blind spots. Yeah. So, I mean, it didn't just end with

00:19:50.440 some hostile times. And in the end, I mean, you've completed your university and such,

00:19:55.800 when you got sanctioned, essentially. I mean, there were consequences they laid upon you for

00:19:59.940 this. Yes. So what happened is I read this letter towards the end of third year. And then as I was

00:20:06.080 just finishing up exams, I received a notice of a complaint that another student had made.

00:20:11.080 I thought it would be dismissed, and it wasn't. Then I thought we could try a mediated conversation

00:20:15.880 to resolve what I thought must be a misunderstanding. That didn't happen. Instead, I was found guilty

00:20:21.660 of having committed harassment by reading this letter we tried an appeal at the university and

00:20:27.660 they upheld that decision so now there's a sanction uh there's a reprimand on my file i don't know if

00:20:33.500 it's been written yet i'd be interested to read it and they ordered that i write an apology letter

00:20:40.140 that acknowledged that what i said caused harm and this would amount to denouncing my own beliefs

00:20:47.180 i'm not willing to do that no and and that's where it starts smacking i don't want to draw

00:20:53.980 too many close analogies but you know of the old oppressive regimes where they would re-educate and

00:20:59.820 if a person still has been found guilty of stepping outside of the line yes forced apologies forced

00:21:05.420 retractions and that's not healthy i mean unless it's genuine anyways whether you're right or wrong

00:21:13.580 forcing apologies is not beneficial. Well, I agree with that. And it's interesting when I made

00:21:19.260 submissions to this hearing board who decided the sanction, I looked at their policy and it says they

00:21:25.180 can request an apology. It doesn't say they can require one. And I told them, if you request an

00:21:30.060 apology from me, it will have no practical effect. You should choose something else

00:21:34.540 because I can't issue that apology. So kind of getting back to what you question, I mean,

00:21:39.420 I know part of it is questioning just the whole process and not allowing you to discuss this,

00:21:43.020 but I mean just so people know what was underlying with this is there's a different length of time

00:21:47.740 that self-identified Indigenous students may have to write exams as opposed to other students which

00:21:55.660 I guess you know it can be debatable on whether Indigenous students just need that extra time and

00:22:02.780 it'll be beneficial or it is an unfair racially based change of requirements for different

00:22:10.620 students. I mean these are the things we should then discuss if we're going to have it but the

00:22:14.300 bottom line is what you're told is you don't even talk about it. That's exactly it and that policy

00:22:20.220 has been around for a long time at the college. They're wanting to do something about under

00:22:24.060 representation for Indigenous people in the legal profession and at the College of Law and I think

00:22:29.900 reasonable people can come at that from different angles including the one that the college has

00:22:34.620 settled on but what's really an issue in this case is this broader point of are students even allowed

00:22:40.220 to discuss this and i think it's important that we're in this litigation wanting to be very

00:22:47.180 precise about what's an issue so we've uncovered a number of policy documents at the university

00:22:54.620 that actually had a bearing in this case even though that wasn't quite clear as i was going

00:22:59.340 through the proceedings and we've brought this second expert report to help explain that so what

00:23:05.660 we're hoping to persuade the court is that the university has taken a specific intellectual or

00:23:12.940 sorry an institutional commitment starting in about 2020 the summer of 2020 i don't know if

00:23:18.620 you remember that was a summer of racial reckoning particularly yeah that says idyll no more was

00:23:23.740 exploding and well and no that was after idyll no more that was the the uh summer of george floyd

00:23:30.540 And yes, in Canada. And so what the university did was they committed to doing more about racism.

00:23:39.100 And how they did this is that they appointed an individual to be a special advisor on anti-racism

00:23:46.300 to establish a committee which had very vast powers at the university. And this person happened

00:23:51.740 to be a post-colonial scholar, which is a very interesting worldview. I don't believe in it at

00:23:58.700 all. But I do respect people's moral and intellectual autonomy. So I respect that people

00:24:03.880 can have that worldview of postcolonial studies. But what happens once the university takes that

00:24:10.160 on as an institutional commitment? That's what's at issue in this litigation. So what our expert

00:24:16.300 explains is that in this worldview of postcolonial studies, there's a certain degree of moral

00:24:22.220 relativism. They don't completely believe in objective truth. So that's somewhere where I

00:24:27.580 disagree. And the way it manifests specifically is that claims made by Indigenous people are

00:24:36.160 thought to be on a higher level. In some instances, they're not to be questioned at all.

00:24:41.780 And the other sort of precept of this worldview is that every inequality of outcome between

00:24:50.780 Indigenous and non-Indigenous people must have been caused by some sort of moral depravity 1.00

00:24:56.880 that they tend to call white supremacy or other words like this.

00:25:02.480 What happens when you think that every unequal, unequal outcome must be caused by some sort of

00:25:08.240 moral depravity? Everything is always somebody else's fault. It's not a healthy mindset to take

00:25:12.480 on for oneself for personal growth. You can face injustice and things are unfair and can happen to

00:25:19.840 people. But when it's really ingrained like that, I mean, it's a questionable approach to give to

00:25:25.120 Well, what it does is it shuts down speech. And that's what we've seen here. The hearing board,

00:25:31.740 I think, read this case as, first of all, there's this debate that was going on about this policy

00:25:39.020 dealing with extra time on exams. And for the hearing board, there is no debate. Of course,

00:25:45.480 that policy is necessary, because if there are unequal outcomes in terms of Indigenous people

00:25:49.900 being represented in the legal profession and so on, it must be caused by white supremacy.

00:25:54.480 There's no defending the outcome.

00:25:56.680 And so there's no critiquing a measure that's meant to level that playing field.

00:26:01.080 And that, unfortunately, prevents people from seeking solutions, assuming they're things outside of white nationalism, supremacy that's been holding it down.

00:26:09.740 I mean, I was kind of talking about that a bit before the show.

00:26:13.200 I've been visiting reserves and sharing video and things.

00:26:15.380 I mean, there's just some socioeconomic challenges that are happening on reserves and in the system.

00:26:21.060 And we can go far enough back as to how it ended up here where it is now.

00:26:24.140 but those are going to hinder people making it to a higher level of post-secondary education

00:26:28.860 like there's some solutions we need to go into much deeper than just constantly pointing the

00:26:32.800 finger at colonialism and white supremacy. That's exactly right and I just go back to

00:26:37.840 the point I made earlier that this vision I have of academic freedom to me is the way for

00:26:42.480 universities to fulfill the promise to Canadian society but one of our experts actually makes

00:26:48.780 this point. It hadn't occurred to me before, but it's quite interesting. If the goal is to have

00:26:54.100 more Indigenous people in a university, in a genuine university experience, you can't turn 1.00

00:27:00.580 the university into something that isn't a university because they're not getting that

00:27:04.440 experience. So I'm here to preserve that experience and I hope everybody gets access to it,

00:27:10.500 but it's got to still be a university. Well, yeah, and it becomes unfair. I worry about that as

00:27:15.060 is somebody who will rely on professionals and on a number of levels through life,

00:27:20.340 whether it's doctors, lawyers, and such.

00:27:22.880 And you want to pick who you feel is going to be the best person to do that job.

00:27:26.740 And there's that unfairness that starts to come with a double standard

00:27:30.080 going towards certain groups and minorities,

00:27:32.240 whereas even unconsciously I might start ruling out other individuals

00:27:36.400 because, well, maybe that person went through it

00:27:38.360 without having the proper program and training that I expect in a university.

00:27:42.040 and it actually puts who could be some very fantastic lawyers, doctors, engineers at a disadvantage

00:27:47.820 because people look out of the corner and say, well, was it DEI or were they really

00:27:52.720 get to that position on merit? It's just not doing favours to the Indigenous community.

00:27:58.040 Well, certainly those are positions that reasonable people can take to critique these policies. I

00:28:03.760 think I understand where the college is coming from as well. They want to do something and

00:28:08.140 Are you going to have some very invasive, you know, detailed application from every single person to find out who needs how much accommodation?

00:28:19.040 They've decided not to do it that way.

00:28:21.180 So, you know, you can argue it both ways.

00:28:24.460 But where the university, I think, really stepped over a line here is all of this bled into disciplinary proceedings.

00:28:32.760 They were actually willing to use in our submissions in court.

00:28:36.940 we say they were willing to use their non-academic misconduct proceedings to enforce

00:28:42.740 as the appeal board of the university puts it that they can educate a student that it is

00:28:49.500 inappropriate to discuss that they're indigenous and non-indigenous groups of students and that

00:28:55.100 the non-indigenous students are treated unfairly that's why i was punished so i know that the 0.98

00:29:01.580 university doesn't mind separating people into indigenous and indigenous they're even happy to 0.99

00:29:06.220 make sweeping generalizations on that basis.

00:29:07.980 Identity politics are kind of ingrained, actually.

00:29:09.680 Yeah, but what I was punished for is suggesting that the wrong group is being treated unfairly.

00:29:14.340 So beyond the broader problems that you want to talk about in a minute with this whole

00:29:18.240 attitude, though, with yourself, now, do these punitive actions impact your career, or are

00:29:24.040 they going to, or have they?

00:29:26.640 They have.

00:29:28.760 I like to sort of, you know, endure this and not complain much about it, but you ask the

00:29:34.920 question it's a fair question and they have as long as these proceedings were ongoing I had to

00:29:39.740 disclose them I did some legal work in Saskatchewan and then I applied to be a lawyer in Alberta so

00:29:47.840 both law societies regulate that from each province I had to disclose when these proceedings

00:29:53.500 were ongoing when a decision came out and then that gave the law societies the ability to review

00:29:59.580 my good character so that's been an adventure let's say

00:30:05.020 takes up a lot of time and it just has affected I think my options in terms of being called to the

00:30:13.640 bar as quickly as my peers and you know being able to just launch into my profession without

00:30:20.320 this hanging over me is something where I still need to clear my name yeah and I just wanted to

00:30:25.140 establish that because you know you you have filed you know a suit against the university and then

00:30:30.020 it's you know not because you just have your nose out of joint or something i mean this has

00:30:34.180 potentially caused serious damages to you thus you know you want to see that remedied yes yeah i want

00:30:40.820 to see um actually i i know you said before in this segment uh you've uh you don't have a great

00:30:47.940 degree of faith in our justice system um i believe in our justice system i believe that the court

00:30:53.620 is going to get this case right.

00:30:56.140 I think we've got a strong case

00:30:57.700 and we're inviting the court to grapple with

00:31:01.040 what happens when a university takes on

00:31:04.020 as an institutional commitment

00:31:05.460 this worldview of post-colonial studies,

00:31:08.300 which isn't receptive to debate

00:31:11.080 about things that they take for granted.

00:31:14.820 And basically we say

00:31:15.980 it offends the principles of academic freedom.

00:31:18.300 So it's not lawful according to the statute

00:31:20.300 that gives the university its powers

00:31:21.840 and it offends the charter.

00:31:23.620 because their constitution is founded on principles of classical liberalism where individuals have the freedom to express themselves and, you know, opine on matters of the day, including controversial matters.

00:31:36.160 Yeah, well, and I mean, foundationally, our common law system, I think, is great and has some great things.

00:31:42.980 I just feel it's quite drifted from what it was supposed to be in some cases, particularly criminal law, but that's kind of side down.

00:31:48.800 Fair enough. This is not a criminal law case, thankfully.

00:31:51.700 But if they are following the tenets of what should be established in law, then you should be confidently, you know, it should serve you well through this.

00:31:59.700 But I mean, how long, what kind of timeline are you looking at on this now?

00:32:02.760 It's very hard to say. I think we're past three years now from when I first learned of the complaint.

00:32:07.980 We had to sort of march our way through all the proceedings in the university.

00:32:11.680 Now we're at the beginning stages at the Court of King's Bench.

00:32:15.580 It could take many more years. Who knows?

00:32:18.400 Well, and as you know, again, with the laws, the system of precedents, though, so I mean,

00:32:22.160 assuming that the things end well as they could for you in this, would this then

00:32:29.360 encourage universities to change or examine their policies? Like, could this have broader reaching

00:32:34.320 implications for them? We have approached this in a way where I think it could have very,

00:32:38.720 very broad reaching implications. We're taking on the policies at the University of Saskatchewan

00:32:44.240 that affect all members of that university. The language there is similar to what you would find

00:32:51.920 in other universities across Canada, and it really takes on the implications of this world view.

00:32:58.320 The broader world view is critical social justice, and that's detailed in our experts report.

00:33:04.880 Anywhere that that's happening in a university, this case could have implications.

00:33:08.480 Yeah, well, I'm just hoping maybe it resets things. As I kind of said before the show,

00:33:12.240 So I'm a little concerned as a guy who's getting a little longer in the tooth.

00:33:15.160 And I understand it's the next generation coming up who's going to be running this world when I'm a senior citizen.

00:33:20.420 And I just want to make sure they've had as good and well-rounded an education as possible.

00:33:25.120 And our post-secondary institutions are kind of, I think, at a point of crisis with that.

00:33:29.720 It's corrections.

00:33:30.960 I guess I'm just hoping your case can help nudge that a little back to where it belongs.

00:33:36.160 Well, every generation has to fight these battles, I think.

00:33:39.480 So you've got your eyes on the right issues.

00:33:42.240 I just want to specify, I'm speaking only in my personal capacity, not for any other organization.

00:33:48.500 Although I'm supported in this case by a charity, I wouldn't be able to do it without them.

00:33:53.520 Yeah, well, and the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms is representing me on a different thing.

00:33:58.160 I've got myself into the soup with.

00:33:59.700 I mean, you know, there's good organizations that helps out when we've, well, if they accept those cases.

00:34:05.060 So there's nothing wrong with that, absolutely.

00:34:07.820 So before I let you go, where can people keep track of what's happening with this and what you're up to?

00:34:12.240 on this then so uh yes the the organization that is supporting me and making this possible is

00:34:17.440 called freedoms advocate they can be found at freedomsadvocate.ca they're pretty selective

00:34:22.240 about their cases so people should be able to find mine pretty quickly um and we rely on donations so

00:34:27.840 if anybody's inclined and able to make a contribution they can donate uh through that

00:34:32.560 website freedomsadvocate.ca to the cause of protecting the freedom of speech great and i

00:34:38.480 I just saw you're active with the Runnymede Society.

00:34:41.520 You want to maybe let the audience know what that is or what it's about?

00:34:45.160 Oh, yes.

00:34:45.800 So the Runnymede Society is a special project.

00:34:48.860 It's existed almost for 10 years.

00:34:50.980 And we're at different law schools across Canada.

00:34:55.140 Almost all of them.

00:34:56.040 We're mostly volunteer-led.

00:34:58.120 And we host events to grapple with legal matters of the day with intellectual diversity.

00:35:05.980 So we're taking a different track from what you'd find often in the classroom.

00:35:10.660 And the Runnymede Society, it's very important to the organization not to take a position on specific legal issues.

00:35:18.180 It upholds broader principles of constitutionalism, the rule of law, and fundamental freedoms.

00:35:24.620 Even in my case, the organization takes no position.

00:35:27.760 I want to make that clear, because people need to be able to come to their own conclusions.

00:35:31.320 Well, it's the same principle as with the university.

00:35:34.000 or you know you can debate it and discuss it not taking a stance necessarily that's that's the whole

00:35:38.480 yeah exactly well i appreciate you you know not taking it laying down i mean you could have just

00:35:43.460 kind of finished school complied with their things and moved on with your career but but you're

00:35:47.260 trying to do something proactively after the fact to to well for your own sake but i think

00:35:51.720 in the broader sake as well so i appreciate that you're coming in to talk to us today

00:35:55.680 thanks so much for having me on all right well and i wish you the best as it as you said drags

00:36:00.020 out it's going to take a while through the courts but hopefully it gets a good outcome

00:36:02.560 I hope so, Tim. Thanks again.

00:36:04.380 Thank you.

00:36:05.960 So yeah, guys, if you want to look it up, Tim Hagstrom.

00:36:08.760 And yes, you can help out with those societies and groups that do help in these things.

00:36:15.020 As I said, the Justice Center is helping me and then others are helping others.

00:36:18.460 So if you want to kind of lend a hand, because there's more to this, as you can see with the discussion, it's deeper, it's important.

00:36:25.580 And it's going to impact all of us in a way, even if you're not going to post-secondary institutions.

00:36:30.860 that people who graduate from them are going to have an impact on your life.

00:36:35.880 As I said, professionals, whether it's doctors, lawyers, chemists, engineers, you name it.

00:36:42.520 Let's see what we got going on in the comments here.

00:36:46.220 Yes, a lot of advanced fashions pointing out when the law society requires the acceptance of untruth as fact,

00:36:52.200 then basis sentences and career longevity on that.

00:36:56.540 There isn't a legal system. There's religious tyranny. 0.73

00:36:58.340 Yeah, the law societies are a whole other ball of wax. I've had guests on here to talk about that. I've talked with Jonathan Dennis and others because they've been given a rough go by the law societies, which are kind of becoming a little too woke and forgetting, I think, what their mandate should be, again, in trying to maintain balance.

00:37:15.800 law is an interesting area of education in that it's not a hard science like uh you know math

00:37:27.380 chemistry uh you know physics where you're going to have some solid rules that are incontrovertible

00:37:33.680 unless you're extremely woke and say two plus two equals five but you know what i mean law is

00:37:37.920 actually an area where it's an ongoing debate it's just it's more of a philosophical calling

00:37:44.460 I mean, it's an important one, but it's one that's changing and flowing with time.

00:37:48.620 So it's hard to come up with solid rules on what's right, what's wrong.

00:37:54.920 And it's up to those lawyers to do that task.

00:37:58.680 And, of course, our judges later on tend to come from the legal class.

00:38:04.580 And as I said to Tim, and I didn't expect him to go into that exactly, you know, but I fear for that.

00:38:10.920 When we do DEI on the qualifications to try and get more of people from other particular groups graduating, I worry that we're getting lesser quality graduates or, and it must be infuriating.

00:38:26.020 I'm certain there's some indigenous or black or other people that graduated from schools and they worked their butts off and they did fantastic and they're brilliant and they've earned every degree and recognition that they've gotten.

00:38:40.580 but they know that some people kind of look out the corner of their eye and

00:38:44.400 say, well, was that DEI?

00:38:46.200 Did they really go through the same process as everybody else?

00:38:49.080 It's unfair to them because again, as I said, I, to be honest,

00:38:54.520 I would question, I'd have to see, I guess,

00:38:58.860 a longer work time resume if I were in a position of hiring for somebody in

00:39:02.800 one of these positions. But if it was fresh out of school, no, I probably,

00:39:06.400 I'll say it bluntly. I wouldn't hire people from those minorities, 1.00

00:39:09.580 not because I dislike the minority, but I worry that they wouldn't be as well qualified as some 0.96

00:39:13.340 of the others. And this is causing harm to the people it's supposed to help. You know, getting

00:39:20.700 back to law, getting back to where we're going, getting back to where I, as I said, our systems

00:39:25.260 in terminal condition, let's talk about immigration. This is a story some others have probably seen

00:39:29.220 recently. I mean, this is where it gets bizarre too. How are these guys getting on the bench? So

00:39:33.600 this is an Ontario resident, resident, not a Canadian citizen. Let's be clear about that.

00:39:38.440 Tried to buy sex from what he thought was a 15 year old. Yeah. So it was a sting operation. He 0.97

00:39:45.400 was caught for trying to lure a minor. He's a pedophile. Let's say it for what it is. He was 1.00

00:39:52.760 given a conditional discharge by the judge. Why? To help him stay in Canada because he's not a 1.00

00:40:00.460 citizen yet. So if he got convicted of this, it might impact his ability to become a citizen.

00:40:08.440 Really? Yes, I want it impacted. The man's a pedophile. He pursues children. I want him the

00:40:15.320 hell out of our country. What kind of judge makes an allowance for scum like this to keep him in? 1.00

00:40:25.480 I mean, people say, how do you define who deserves to stay within Canada, who doesn't among 1.00

00:40:30.980 immigrants? Well, here's one of the lines that's pretty simple. If they're child predators, we don't

00:40:34.860 want them. Yet a judge couldn't figure that out, made an exception for this man and said, no,

00:40:43.440 we don't want to convict him because it might impact his ability to become a citizen. What

00:40:48.740 the hell is wrong with you guys? And it's this kind of garbage, this immigration crap that's 1.00

00:40:57.700 going on. Speaking of things that get unfair to others, but we've got to clean up our system on 1.00

00:41:05.800 who we're accepting, who we aren't. Canada is built on immigration. Immigrants are what, 1.00

00:41:10.320 immigrants are what make us strong. They bring a work ethic here. They bring professions. They

00:41:15.680 bring their families. They contribute to the country, but there's a bunch within them that

00:41:21.360 don't. There's a bunch that are sick. There's a bunch that cause problems. If you saw that 1.00

00:41:25.760 Western Standard story on that gang in Ontario that was busted because they'd been doing home

00:41:32.000 invasions all over the place. And you saw the names and the people participating in it. Guys,

00:41:38.160 they were all new Canadians. They should be the hell out of here. Gone. Make room for the people 1.00

00:41:46.160 who want to come here and abide by the law. People who want to come here and work and make a living

00:41:51.900 and make a better life for themselves. Why is it so difficult to just look at these things

00:41:59.380 objectively and figure out some of the easy ones, right? Man wants to pick up 15 year old children 1.00

00:42:05.560 and molest them. That's one we don't want. I don't need to be a judge to understand that. I don't

00:42:11.280 need a law degree to understand that. And I'm pretty confident most Canadians will accept that

00:42:16.520 kind of ruling. And it gets to the stupid, you know, an issue that's been big lately too with, 1.00

00:42:22.020 oh, the big book ban in Alberta. Oh, the Alberta government's cracking down and banning books. Oh, 1.00

00:42:26.760 they're virtual fascists because they're banning books. And then the people start,

00:42:32.120 where do you draw the line? How can we allow people to start judging which books are appropriate

00:42:36.360 for children within children's libraries and which aren't? And I've been posting that on X.

00:42:41.060 It's pretty easy to draw the line on some of them because one of the books that was in Alberta

00:42:44.540 of schools, in front of children, in a library, depicted a couple of men going down on each

00:42:51.840 other. Guess what? There, there's one you can safely remove from the list. Is it really that

00:42:59.000 complicated? Was it really that hard? Do you really need to allow it all? No. Pull the porn.

00:43:07.860 It's not that complicated. But these naval gazers, these hammerheads, then I really wonder 0.96

00:43:14.100 where their interests are, who want to get that in front of our kids. You know, and then there are

00:43:19.060 people saying, oh, they're pulling it because of homophobia. No, they're pulling it because it's

00:43:22.460 freaking porn. And, you know, I saw somebody speaking on X who said it well. He's a gentleman 0.87

00:43:29.800 from the LGBTQ community. I said, why is this always sexualized anyways? You know, they can 1.00

00:43:36.500 discuss LGBTQ things with kids as they're growing, as they're figuring out who they are and what

00:43:41.560 they're going to be without going into, oh, by the way, here's the better way to give a man head.

00:43:48.180 It doesn't, they reduced it to the sexual component. There's more to being gay than 0.85

00:43:54.020 having sex with each other, isn't there? There's the relationship. But these nutcases, we get into 1.00

00:44:04.180 these positions, judges, higher education, our public education system, where they really can't

00:44:12.400 figure out what's porn or what's not, what's appropriate to become in front of kids, what's

00:44:17.220 not. Again, getting back to where Gordon maybe thought it was exaggerating when I say things

00:44:23.600 are in terminal condition. Well, when we're seeing stuff like this going on, I'd say it's

00:44:27.280 getting a little terminal. If we have a society that really can't figure out when porn is

00:44:32.760 appropriate to put in front of children or not yeah we got a terminal problem guys and we got

00:44:38.660 to talk bluntly to it we got to accept it we got to get realistic about it another one i'm going

00:44:44.840 to just stir up the anti-vaccination folks among my own the measles outbreak it's been getting big

00:44:51.060 it's been getting wider look folks it's 100 preventable i'm not going to go down the rabbit

00:44:55.420 hole of talking about all vaccinations most people were talking about with the covid thing which is

00:44:59.200 separate. They're saying, I accept all the old vaccinations, the proven ones, the polio,

00:45:05.100 the measles, the rubella, the mumps, whatever, all that. Well, not everybody did, obviously,

00:45:09.220 because there haven't been enough vaccinations and now measles is going around and we don't

00:45:12.840 need it to be going around. I know it's not the most harmful disease in the world, but it's still

00:45:17.440 one you don't want your kids getting if you don't have to. I don't believe in vaccine mandates.

00:45:22.860 Never have, never will. It has to be a choice. It must be a choice. And I think part of the reason

00:45:28.120 and people aren't taking it up is because the bloody coercion and crap that came out during

00:45:32.980 COVID, the government actually built the mistrust that led to fewer people getting the vaccinations.

00:45:37.780 But guys, please look into it. We don't need to be battling measles. This is one that should be

00:45:43.320 behind us. So keep it in mind. All right, lots going on. Check in for the pipeline. It's going

00:45:50.120 to come on a little bit later tonight and the rest of our stuff. Be sure to share our links,

00:45:54.740 subscribe all that good stuff send me emails if you got more you want coverage stories ideas things

00:46:00.820 like that and of course take out a subscription with the standard if you haven't already so uh

00:46:05.460 thank you again for tuning in today guys and we'll see you next week at this time

00:46:24.740 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - July 17, 2025

The Canadian justice system is in terminal condition

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