On today's show, Corey is joined by two ex-cabinet members of the United Conservative Party, Todd Lowen and Drew Barnes, to discuss the recent anti-protester protests across the country, and the hypocrisy shown by the Prime Minister.
00:02:00.000Good morning, welcome to the Corey Morgan Show for May 17th on this beautiful Monday
00:02:29.700morning we had a beautiful hot weekend it did finally feel like spring or summer this weekend
00:02:34.720but of course we weren't really allowed to do anything but I hope you managed to enjoy what
00:02:39.120you could out of it I see I started out with a bit of a hot mic there a couple of people warning
00:02:43.100me on it with the sage advice from Cindy saying don't fart your mic is on well I don't know the
00:02:49.580mic being on never stopped me from doing it before actually and most people don't realize
00:02:53.200it's happening that's the nice things of being in a remote studio so you don't have to torment
00:02:57.380guests after Taco Tuesday. But either way, I do appreciate those warnings. I could have been
00:03:02.580saying something untoward or embarrassing, but again, I usually don't have much of a filter when
00:03:06.540I'm on the show anyhow. And there's lots to cover. I do have some fantastic guests on today.
00:03:13.080I am going to have, yes, the two expelled caucus members from the UCP. Drew Barnes is going to be
00:03:18.820on in about 15 minutes, and we'll talk for a while and cover where he's sitting, where he's going,
00:03:24.820how he ended up where he is. And we'll have a very similar conversation with Todd Lowen at the top
00:03:30.460of the hour, the two new independent members of the legislature now, as things go crazy there.
00:03:39.040I'm, yeah, I'm trying to find my screen here. So it's a painful day for me in a number of ways,
00:03:46.600one of which is my whole body hurts. You know, if anything should be banned for safety reasons,
00:03:51.240I don't think it has anything to do with COVID. It should be those bloody reality renovation
00:03:54.020shows that inspire people to rip their places apart and take on projects that they can't manage
00:03:59.620to finish so my wife is a beautiful lady brilliant i love her she's fantastic i'm lucky to have her
00:04:05.940but my gosh she tore the basement apart we've been fighting with it all week i am in agony so
00:04:10.200if we want to take on something for public safety to ban don't ban rodeos don't ban restaurants
00:04:14.680ban those reality home renovation tv shows like i said put on cooking shows the worst will happen
00:04:20.500somebody watches something that looks easy on tv they cook a meal it turns out like crap they order
00:04:24.180a pizza but these reno things are killing me the other thing that's painting me this week so i'll
00:04:28.260get on to the ranting now is hypocrisy and we're seeing it in spades we saw that all weekend you
00:04:35.780know people wonder why people aren't taking the uh covid restrictions seriously why they're not
00:04:41.780following the rules why they're they're moving all over the map well it's because the standards move
00:04:47.060all over the map as well so over the weekend we had tens of thousands of people marching
00:04:53.220all over the country in protests uh against israel you know so this happens periodically
00:04:59.380every few years when hamas manages to get enough foreign aid together to start uh attacking and
00:05:06.100sending missiles into israel and then israel finally defends itself and everybody goes running
00:05:10.820and screaming and protesting across the country now that's not new but what is going on is
00:05:17.060It's in violation of the COVID restrictions. Come on, I thought we had these warnings. I thought we had the premier talking to people saying we're going to arrest organizers. In fact, they do arrest organizers. They do ticket attendees of protests. Unless, unless they're running around, maskless, waving Palestine flags, screaming death to the Jews. In that case, we'll let it slide.
00:05:40.160You know, the silence out of Ninchy was deafening with that.
00:05:45.940Why aren't you demanding arrests, as you did with other protests, rallies, and people getting out there?
00:05:51.920Or an example of one of Ninchy's extensions is Giancarlo Carra, because he was questioned on Twitter.
00:05:58.760People were saying, you know, where's your comment?
00:06:00.280So he said, my comment to this is the same as during the BLM protests.
00:06:03.220So I'm glad he admits he was hypocritical when it came to the BLM protests as well.
00:06:06.500He says, I'm a lot more sympathetic to people protesting actual political situations that demand attention to resolution than I am about bad people throwing temper tantrums about being members of a society.
00:07:24.380I swear it's all about control and making people miserable.
00:07:27.240So AHS swooped in hours before the one was going to open in Canyon Meadows, one was going to open on the Satina Reserve, one was going to open in High River.
00:07:36.060The High River one was a non-profit thing.
00:07:38.180These were just going to be drive-in movies for people to go out with their families, sit in their car, and watch a movie.
00:07:44.700As they were saying with the High River one, I guess, you know, they were going to have food trucks that you would even text and they would bring the food to your car.
00:07:50.240There's no evidence anywhere that a drive-in movie has ever harmed anybody, ever.
00:07:55.820but AHS shut it down. No, no, no. People are going to have fun. They're going to smile.
00:08:01.020They're going to enjoy themselves. We can't have that. That doesn't fit within our mandate,
00:08:05.100but it gets better than that because then we find out that in Grand Prairie,
00:08:10.080welcome to the internet guys, we find out about these things. They held a drive-in movie for AHS
00:08:15.640employees. Yes, nurses. They held a drive-in movie in Grand Prairie, an area that was called a hotspot
00:08:20.880at the beginning of this month. We're not talking an area with low infections. They're as heavily
00:08:24.380infected as anywhere else. That was okay. That was a benefit for nurses. That's not a problem.
00:08:30.300But one in High River apparently is a problem. AHS shut them down. One in Canyon Meadows and
00:08:35.160South Calgary, AHS shut them down. And the Sutina Reserve by the casino, they shut them down.
00:08:41.260But something that's delicious to watch. The organizers on the Sutina Reserve with their
00:08:46.520drive-in have now said, we're holding it anyway. You have no authority here. We don't care what
00:08:53.020you think? The chief and council have approved this. You watch Notley, for example, hysterically
00:09:00.460screaming and hollering. She's saving the world, you know. She wanted to shut down the rodeo. She
00:09:04.800wanted to shut down other things. She gets on her high horse. She talks about government swooping
00:09:09.540in and arresting people. I can promise you the silence will be deafening now that the Soutina0.98
00:09:15.560are holding a drive-in movie. She's not going to demand that they go in and arrest the chief0.88
00:09:20.220or the organizers or ticket people attending that or blockade the roads or fence it in like
00:09:25.620a church. No, she will hide and just sit and gripe and go on about other petty things because
00:09:30.700that's what she does. As with Nenshi, as with others we see on the scene, the hypocrisy is0.63
00:09:37.420staggering. So keep that in mind. If you want to hold a rally, carry a Palestinian flag in the
00:09:45.540front of it and yell just to the Jews. Then you can just go on with your rally with everything1.00
00:09:48.160else after that. They'll be silent. Don't worry about it. You're perfectly fine. So just make
00:09:54.340sure to frame these things right. And then you can express yourself. I know it's not a nice way to go
00:09:59.820out with things, but that is, seems to be where the rules are. And yeah, if you want to hold a
00:10:05.040drive-in movie with friends and family, I guess you got to hold it on a native reserve. And you
00:10:09.620know, I don't want to see people coming in and cracking down and shutting down the sutina drive-in.
00:10:13.400I don't. Good on them. Good on them for pushing back and telling the AHS to go to hell because
00:10:18.120they really need it. And they will set that example. What I see happening soon, I think
00:10:24.020AHS will relent and allow all the drive-ins because they definitely don't have the balls0.99
00:10:29.440to take on the Sutina Reserve. So they will open the others. So that's a win. And I thank you guys
00:10:35.940at the Sutina Reserve for pushing it. I think we should hold a rodeo on the Sutina Reserve and
00:10:40.400they used to in the past, but let's hold them right away. Let's get Ty Northcott who went to
00:10:44.920court or is going today, I believe for his first hearing. It's a virtual one. Get Ty Northcott to
00:10:49.660organize another pop-up rodeo. We'll do it on the Soutina Reserve or Sun Child O'Chise or one of the
00:10:53.840others. And let's see how quickly Notley and the others get up and demand arrests. You know, they
00:10:58.760won't. They're cowards. They're cowards and they're hypocrites. We saw it with the marches.
00:11:04.800We saw it with these rodeos. Now, what else do we got going on? So let's talk about COVID. You
00:11:10.040the negative negative negative well it's not negative you know i was listening to the radio
00:11:14.360i pained myself on the way and you don't need to listen to the radio download these podcasts listen
00:11:18.760to that in your spare time the radio is just getting horrible so the announcing the weekend
00:11:22.280covet counts it's funny it's no mistake they make it as miserable and scary and frightening as
00:11:28.840humanly possible we used to get daily counts on covet cases when they switched to cases because
00:11:32.840that was the scariest stat you know we got a number of measures and stats for covet 19.
00:11:36.920they will always pick whatever one looks worst so now that cases have dropped by nearly half
00:11:42.760nearly half and it has nothing to do with the lockdown by the way they were dropping already
00:11:45.960before the lockdown as they always say two more weeks two more weeks two more weeks well two more
00:11:48.920weeks applies when you lock down as well so we're going to see impacts from the lockdown and we
00:11:52.760won't or at least you know we'll see things go down but won't have anything to do with the lockdown
00:11:56.680all the lockdown does crush businesses but either way it's only been a week and the cases are down
00:12:02.360by nearly half. So what does the media do? It reports the whole weekend worth of cases to
00:12:07.080still make it sound scary. Oh my God, there were 2,300 cases. Yes. But a couple of weeks ago,
00:12:13.320there were nearly 4,000 over the course of two days, you see. But they're announcing it daily.
00:12:17.480Now they've gone to putting together two days at a time when they announced them. People are not
00:12:22.460passing away from this, not much at all. I mean, yes, some do. It's tragic, you know, but let's
00:12:26.840keep reporting on that. Three people the other day, three out of 4.4 million. One was 80 years old,
00:12:33.500two were 70 in their 70s, and two of them had comorbidities that were known. I mean, again,
00:12:39.000this is not the plague sweeping the common people and causing mass death, thankfully.
00:12:45.020And it doesn't mean we can ignore it. That's still three people dead. They might have had
00:12:48.200some more months left in them. We don't want to go prematurely. Our ICU beds, nowhere near capacity
00:12:54.620yet. All the fear mongering, the triage, you know, stacking bodies like cordwood and everything they
00:12:58.380warned us about, you know, didn't happen. Not going to happen. Numbers are kind of flat line.
00:13:03.040There's a number of people in there. It's of concern, but it's not crushing the health system.
00:13:06.220The nurses still have time to make TikTok videos and play crib. Don't worry. They'll be all right.
00:13:10.720We need to start backing off though, because businesses are getting crushed. You know, I live
00:13:14.860Prentiss area. I used to own the pub down there. They've been locked down. It's just destroying
00:13:20.840them. I sold it to them. I feel awful almost. It's like a survivor's guilt. You know, I sold
00:13:24.680the pub to them just before all this crap hit. And they did like everybody else. They built a
00:13:29.620big wooden patio out in the parking lot and they rented tables and they spent money and they were
00:13:35.220allowed to have it open for a week. And the one weekend that it was open, it was pouring rain
00:13:39.480and miserable. This weekend was beautiful. The traffic, if anybody went west of Calgary, was
00:13:44.400something else. It was just overwhelming. And of course, there's that empty patio sitting there.
00:13:50.160they're watching that traffic go by, you know, as their bills mount, as their fixed costs stay the
00:13:54.720same, as their staff remain laid off. For what? For what? You know, you can't prove any infections
00:14:02.060from people going to these patios. It's just ridiculous. So we've got to keep pushing back.
00:14:06.380We've got to keep pressuring back. We can't take our foot off the gas with these guys. It's become
00:14:11.820an obsession. They just don't want to lighten up on letting off on this control. It doesn't matter
00:14:17.320where the numbers are so we have to keep pushing back and these hypocrites and they are hypocrites
00:14:23.620will keep being hypocrites so keep reporting it keep protesting safely carefully but we can't let0.52
00:14:31.500them just keep taking this this wimpy path and locking everybody down it's bankrupting us debt
00:14:36.300is exploding speaking of other things getting onto the federal front then for a minute uh oh
00:14:41.880actually another side note so let's look at some good news i was talking about good news texas the
00:14:45.760population nearly as much as all of Canada. It opened up two months ago, more than two months
00:14:49.500ago. They were only 14% vaccinated. We're well beyond that already. Zero deaths to report the
00:14:56.040other day. Their case counts are a fraction of what they were. They've been out. They're having
00:15:01.220massive gatherings, sporting events, all sorts of things. No super spreaders. It puts lie to the
00:15:10.400myth that government can somehow control this virus. You know, I mean, there's areas that are
00:15:17.540locked down tight as a drum and they have the worst infections in North America. And then there's
00:15:20.520other areas that are liberal and letting people loose like Texas, like Mississippi, like Florida,
00:15:24.880and their numbers are no worse. In fact, they're much better than we are right now.
00:15:28.920So let's get on with the realities here. I mean, this best summer ever that Jason Kenney keeps
00:15:34.620talking about, we're getting into it already. And so far it sucks, Jason. It sucks. It's just
00:15:39.580like last year. And I don't see a benefit from it. Lighten up, open up. It's your only hope of
00:15:45.700getting reelected in two years anyways. It's not looking good. And I'm sure that Mr. Barnes and
00:15:52.500Mr. Lowen will have a few things to say about that when they get on as well. Getting on to the other
00:15:57.220alternative parties. So over the weekend, the Wilder's Independence Party did have their
00:16:02.300leadership in a sense. Paul Heman was acclaimed. Nobody else did meet the bar and requisite for
00:16:09.960entering in the race. So he was acclaimed. He is the official leader moving on going into
00:16:15.000the next provincial election. So there's another, you know, well, there's a number of registered
00:16:20.520parties out there. I guess, you know, among the alternative ones, that would be the biggest and
00:16:24.940most well-organized at this point. Paul certainly, you know, he's been on the show before. He's got
00:16:29.620no shortage of organizational experience. He knows how to get these things going off the ground,
00:16:33.660and he's been underestimated many, many, many times. When he came in in Calgary Glenmore with
00:16:39.780the first Wild Rose party and won it on an upset, nobody expected it. It shook things up and it set
00:16:45.920the ball rolling for what turned into that long, arduous journey into the Wild Rose party that did
00:16:53.540great, made inroads, had its ups and downs. And then, you know, for those of us with political
00:16:58.960history, we had the brutal floor crossing with a number of MLAs, the terrible move that led to
00:17:07.340massive distrust. Basically, in my view, it kind of collapsed the government. The opportunism on
00:17:11.720the part of the late Jim Prentice was just too much for people to stomach. They couldn't vote
00:17:16.060for the PCs. Trust was hurting for the remainder of the Wildrose Party. And we got four years of
00:17:22.460an NDP government, which we're still very embarrassed about and hope not to repeat.
00:17:27.220Now, one of those members who didn't cross, and there were only a few, some loyalists,
00:17:31.500and who is still there is Drew Barnes. And I see him in the lobby there. So let's bring him in.
00:17:36.560You guys have heard enough of me for the last 15 minutes, and I'm certain we have a lot to talk
00:17:41.060about. So hey there, Drew. Good to see you. Good morning, Corey. Nice to talk to you again.
00:17:46.880Yeah. So a lot has changed since the last time we chatted on here, or maybe not a lot has. I
00:17:52.880mean, your views haven't changed. You're still pushing on the same principles and things going
00:17:57.040forward, but you no longer are a representative of a party in the legislature. Yeah. What an
00:18:05.760opportunity, I think. Tens of thousands of Albertans have been saying, hundreds of them
00:18:11.840them have reached out to me saying that they feel their voice, their ideas, you know, their needs
00:18:18.060haven't been, you know, listened to, haven't been brought to the floor of the legislature to be
00:18:23.360debated. And this is a great opportunity for me to listen, you know, to learn from what they're
00:18:29.500saying. And then from there to help get these ideas put forward. Yeah, you know, it, you know,
00:18:37.220I'm honored to represent Cypress Medicine Hat, you know, you know, for 10 years now. And, you
00:18:43.180know, it's going to be an opportunity to do those very things. I heard your introduction. And, you
00:18:49.560know, I so, you know, always like to thank you for the work that you did to start the whole idea
00:18:55.300of Wild Rose. You know, I think of you, Link Byfield, John Murdoch, you know, many others
00:19:00.960that worked very, very hard to make things happen. And I think one of the things that hasn't been
00:19:06.640talked about a whole bunch in the last little while is the fact that Albertans are demanding
00:19:12.500and deserving of democratic reform. And that's really one of the main elements we were pushing
00:19:18.760for in the wild rose way back in 2012. And maybe we just got delayed for a while. Let's see what
00:19:25.340happens. Yeah, well, I'm glad you look at it with that outlook. And it's limiting, though,
00:19:30.540I understand. But something I'm kind of enjoying these days, and I've said a number of times,
00:19:33.940just since I've gone in with the Western Standard, I don't have a party membership in any party
00:19:38.220anymore for the first time in my adult life. And it's quite empowering because I couldn't speak
00:19:43.440critically of other parties necessarily and so on if I was a member. That's just at the member
00:19:47.960level. I just don't think I could in good principle. I mean, when you're an elected
00:19:51.980member and you're in a party, there's certain constraints. It's just a reality that you no
00:19:57.020longer have. So I'm just guessing, I mean, you were very outspoken within the UCP. You're not
00:20:02.120going to become any less so at this point now that you don't have any constraints in the partisan
00:20:06.200sense. Yeah, I'm actually hoping to, you know, increase that. You know, I'm going to spend some
00:20:13.340time initially, of course, talking to my family, talking to my constituents, you know, pulling my
00:20:18.640constituents as to the direction they'd like to see. You know, I'm grateful and honoured to be 10
00:20:24.720years and I believe that I still have a lot to offer, energy and ideas to serve public service
00:20:31.120for Albertans. So that's where I'd like to remain and head. But, you know, Corey, it's
00:20:37.200indicative of where we're at. You know, the premier publicly was saying that he welcomed
00:20:43.800public debate. He welcomed public discussion. And of course, I wasn't in cabinet. I wasn't
00:20:50.200a decision maker. But when push comes to shove, obviously he didn't appreciate or welcome
00:20:57.440the public debate that we were bringing. And, you know, I look back at what happened on Thursday,
00:21:04.160you know, Todd Lowen, you know, a solid, you know, constituency conservative, a very, you know,
00:21:13.540you know, mannered person who heard so loud from his constituency that the premiers weren't,
00:21:19.780that the premier was not on side, that he felt the need to publicly ask for the premier to resign.
00:21:50.760That's just kind of a reality in partisan politics.
00:21:54.220But in that case, they seem to, well, since we're going after Todd, we may as well get that rabble
00:21:59.060rouser Drew out of there at the same time. I mean, you weren't a part of that, at least a call for
00:22:04.120Jason Kennedy's resignation. You were just very critical of the party at many a time.
00:22:09.500Do you think that perhaps, I mean, obviously, they were just taking advantage of that catalyst,
00:22:13.500but given enough time, they probably would have found a reason to kind of set you aside as well?
00:22:17.760Yeah, you know, again, Premier used to say he welcomed public debate. Clearly, he didn't. You know, maybe the other catalyst is, you know, I think there's some polling was released recently that showed that Premier Kenney's popularity level in Alberta was as low as Justin Trudeau's.
00:22:37.720In Alberta, the Premier was polling as low as Justin Trudeau's.
00:22:42.400You know, and I hear time and time again how Trudeau's values don't match Albertan values.
00:22:48.740Yeah, I mean, it was a surprise, but again, now it's an opportunity.
00:22:54.160We were supposed to have a caucus meeting on Thursday, which was cancelled Wednesday night.
00:22:58.320I woke up to Todd's letter highlighting several of the concerns that I hear daily with the UCP
00:23:06.700government and the premier off track, but ending with a call for the premier to resign.
00:23:11.500And of course, there had been several constituencies and several members calling for a
00:23:16.240leadership review anyway, and that became a bit of a public debate. And then they called a new
00:23:22.280meeting for starting, I think it was a 1230 by the time it got going closer to one the first
00:23:28.920agenda item brought up was the ejection of Todd and myself and I immediately knew that my UCP days
00:23:37.480were in jeopardy and were over. Yeah, that was quite a chain of events. Again, it perhaps was
00:23:45.560building. Boy, I'm sorry, his name is escaping me. There was another MLA Hanson, I believe his name
00:23:52.300was. Dave Hanson, a great rural guy, St. Paul, Bonneville. He's in his second term, former Wild
00:23:58.880Roser. Yeah, and he'd spoken up, but they didn't eject him. I imagine perhaps some good promises
00:24:05.980behind closed doors if that's the last of your misbehaviors. Yeah, I would hope not and I would
00:24:14.500believe not uh you know i i don't i can't explain how how it came to that uh it just uh yeah like
00:24:21.620again because of my outspokenness which i thought was welcomed you know quite example i fall back to
00:24:28.020when the premier and the cabinet had a regional approach way back you know seven or eight months
00:24:33.760ago i was saying things like i think they basically got it right you know i think they
00:24:38.860basically, you know, handled the COVID situation, you know, down here in Cypress Medicine had 300
00:24:45.260miles by 300 miles, we had eight cases, you know, and we had, you know, no ICU and no hospitalization
00:24:52.540overburden. And then of course, when they got off that approach, then I changed my tune.
00:24:58.380You know, I think the first time that I spoke up was after the fair deal panel,
00:25:03.580and it was clear to me that Albertans were stronger to me directly and at the Fair Deal
00:25:10.780panel that they wanted to put Ottawa on notice that we demand and deserve a fairer deal.
00:25:17.580So I felt it was my obligation and my role to make it stronger that Albertans were expecting
00:25:25.580you know Ottawa to listen to us to give us a fairer deal financially,
00:25:29.660pre-trade resource movement. Many Albertans even want to open the Constitution and do something
00:25:34.540about the inequity in the Supreme Court justice selections, Canada's most useless Senate,
00:25:41.500and other changes like that. And that didn't seem to be reflected in the tone of the Fair
00:25:46.700Deal report. So I felt obligated to do that. The next time I spoke up, I believe it was when
00:25:52.620Cabinet changed the age payments. They bumped the age payments back, remember, three or four days to
00:25:57.500to try to put it into the next fiscal year,
00:25:59.800you know, that might have cost the taxpayer,
00:26:01.860I heard $10 million, I don't know the number.
00:26:04.900And it certainly caused a lot of people that,1.00
00:26:08.420you know, deserve and reliant on Aish a lot of hardship.1.00
00:26:11.620It made no sense to me and I said that.1.00
00:26:13.940You know, that's what I should be doing, isn't it?
00:26:26.580I despise the most and when we used to watch question period in the past is when a government
00:26:31.700member would come up and lob a puffball question across uh you know to set up a minister to say
00:26:36.500something fluffy and nice and every government's done it over the past but just loathe that you
00:26:40.820know I mean it defeats your purpose it lets you know uh if you are in a constituency represented
00:26:46.580by a back bench or in a government like that you will not be able to have any sort of voice going
00:26:51.780into that government that's contrary to the centralized government line and we kind of thought
00:26:56.740maybe we're getting something better we're getting something different with the UCP but I mean did it
00:27:01.700begin with the crackdown on individual voices like that right off the bat upon forming government or
00:27:07.300is this kind of evolved in this last year and a half? Well thank you for that question Corey you
00:27:12.920know it's hard to say there was so much high hope that Jason Kenney would meet the expectations that
00:27:20.600that he was elected on two years ago you know from doing something about the size and the cost
00:27:25.320of government to to doing something about our unfair deal with ottawa free trade and resource
00:27:31.560movement uh you know there was high hopes that a 25-year ottawa insider uh would be able to to
00:27:38.360navigate that and get our resources moving uh you know and and i think the the frustration the
00:27:45.960criticism just grew and the response instead of being more open and engaging and letting
00:27:53.160backbenchers and members have more say, seemed like it got more top down. So again, I think it
00:28:02.120was something that worsened, that grew and as expectations were not met and it was obvious that
00:28:11.160that, you know, the track was wrong, that, you know, Albertans needed a venue and an avenue to speak up.
00:28:19.740Yeah, so again, for me, this is such an opportunity for tens of thousands of us
00:28:26.540and, you know, the 50,000 people that I'm honoured to represent in Cypress Medicine Hat.
00:28:31.180This is our opportunity to get those ideas to the floor of the legislature, to speak freer,
00:28:37.460to listen, to learn and to lead, and I'm excited.
00:28:41.160Yeah, well, you know, I mean, things change when it happened. It's hard to say or if it happened. I mean, a lot of people are wondering whether Jason Kenney pulled the wool over our eyes or if he'd bitten off more than he can chew. Some people have been, you know, reposting an article I wrote a couple of years ago endorsing Kenney for the leadership and saying this is the way to go. This is the great, you know, future here. This is how we'll get our province back and stand up to Ottawa. I was wrong. I'll admit that. I was dead wrong, obviously.
00:29:07.820I, I, I, but I mean, was I snowed or did he just change? I don't know. That's still for speculation,
00:29:13.520but part of what got to me, and you started talking about democratic reform was when the,
00:29:18.240uh, recall and referenda, uh, bills were put out and they were written in such a way and purposely
00:29:24.580so to make it completely impossible for those to ever actually be utilized. So that tells me
00:29:29.880that somebody purposely pulled the wool over my eyes. They, uh, I mean, I, I was on policy with
00:29:35.440the Wildrose Party, it's a difficult balance. You want it achievable, but not whimsical so
00:29:39.640somebody can constantly enact, you know, referendums and recalls. But this set that bar at such a level
00:29:44.960that it's saying, we just want to give you the appearance of direct democracy, but we never
00:29:48.700actually want to empower you to go out and initiate a referendum. That's very distressing.
00:29:54.020Yeah. And for me as well. And when you compare it to Switzerland as an example,
00:29:58.380there are some differences between whether the issue is constitutional or not. But I think as
00:30:04.440low as 50,000 people out of a population, I think Switzerland is eight or nine million people,
00:30:11.46050,000 people can get a binding question on a referendum. I mean, I know there's a process
00:30:16.340and those kinds of things. And of course, what was said here was in the hundreds of thousands
00:30:20.440over a shorter period of time. Yeah. So there's lots of room for improvement there.
00:30:29.080And yeah, and that's something, you know, that going forward, something that as an independent,
00:30:32.900I'll be able to review and decide you know great to get it to get it on the on the books to start
00:30:38.180with Corey is this something that's fought next election uh in a different way or is this something
00:30:43.320we try to change now and and again I'm grateful that this gives us an opportunity to uh to look
00:30:48.820at that in a different way yeah there's uh you know the the recall thing I mean that's a hallmark
00:30:54.120of the wild rose members we we always wanted some accountability some way to to hold our people to
00:31:00.640task. And yeah, I mean, we should never be scared of the chance to, you know, be responsible to
00:31:08.140to our voters and our citizens. And so hopefully we'll have a chance to improve that as well.
00:31:13.720Yeah, well, and I appreciate you talking about, you know, systemic change. And I love
00:31:18.000Switzerland. I could do a whole show just talking about their system. I mean,
00:31:21.340it's a small nation, yet so diverse and very decentralized, which is something we really need.
00:31:27.160And it shows that, I mean, I believe Switzerland, I could be wrong, it's three or four official languages.
00:31:32.300There's 26 little divisions, those cantons in there, and they function.
00:31:36.300I mean, that's one of the oldest democracies on the planet.
00:31:38.340And the reason it is, is because you can let the individual regions govern themselves and still have a collective sense of cohesion and being.
00:31:47.040And we can't even do it on a provincial level.
00:31:49.520As you said, you've been speaking up for Medicine Hat.
00:31:51.700And perhaps that doesn't match what people in Edmonton want, but that's not your job to talk about what people in Edmonton want.
00:31:56.120Your job is to speak for your constituents.
00:33:59.180That allows me to orchestrate, you know, some staff and some research and some comms that way.
00:34:06.040And that will allow me to be more focused.
00:34:07.520Of course, I'm very excited to work with Todd Lowen, and so we're having meetings later to work that out and that kind of thing, so I'm grateful for that.
00:34:17.740Yeah, and again, instead of being expected to sell the government line back to my constituents, this is my complete opportunity to applaud the government when they do the right thing,
00:34:31.040to offer suggestions when I think there's a better path, and to critique when that's necessary.
00:34:36.660So I'm excited and optimistic. You know, I kind of compare it to my legislative career. In the first three years, you recall that Jim Prentice called the election a year early, and that was breaking a democratic covenant that cost the PCs dearly, I believe.
00:34:52.380as a Wild Rose opposition member, I believe I did four reports about how we get more value out of
00:35:03.580infrastructure building, twinning Highway 63 to Fort McMurray, having with a colleague named
00:35:08.500Shane Saskue, and then about building on time and on budget and balancing the books. And so it was
00:35:16.000an opportunity to present those things and have some influence on government policy. And I'll say
00:35:21.560this, Corey, I, you know, it'll be up to the government to treat me with respect and listen
00:35:26.240to my ideas. You know, a little shout out for, you know, our deceased friend, Manmeet Boulard.
00:35:33.820When he was infrastructure critic, I did a report and Manmeet read it. Him and I sat and had a long
00:35:40.080coffee and discussed all the ins and outs. He told me the two or three things he liked, the two or
00:35:44.380three things he didn't like. And to me, that's a way for government to work. And so I'm looking
00:35:49.560forward to that and bless them. Yeah, you can be congenial and productive. I mean, it does
00:35:57.100sometimes happen in legislatures and even the parliament. People don't necessarily see it
00:36:01.840sometimes. Actually, I'm wondering, will you be removed from committees that you served on at
00:36:07.000this point now too? Yes, I believe I will be. That's the new situation. One thing I haven't
00:36:17.200said, though, is about three months ago, the UCP whip and caucus did remove me from the two
00:36:23.500committees I was on and put me on the no meet committee. And that committee, of course, only
00:36:29.540meets at the direction of the legislature. So not 100% sure, but I believe I'll be removed from that
00:36:36.520now. And but, you know, because of people like you, because of the Western Standard, because of
00:36:41.860our media. I have the opportunity to get my messages out in a different way. And it's up to
00:36:48.960all Albertans to speak up and have them tell the government, have them tell Premier Kenney what
00:36:55.280their expectations are. Yeah, well, and we're getting a candid look at government and some of
00:37:00.700the inner workings. It's kind of like learning how a sausage is made sometimes, but things have changed
00:37:06.220and the means of communication. And it's much more difficult actually for a top-down controlling
00:37:12.380government to maintain information and keep that tight. As we saw when hearings were going on,
00:37:18.580there were a number of sources passing on some information to the Western Standard, which was
00:37:23.140live reporting the incidents as they happen. And of course, fingers were all pointing at you and
00:37:27.420no, is Derek being quite clear? No, this is a barrel with a whole number of leaks in it all
00:37:31.920over the place don't you you might be plugging one spot but it's just yeah yeah it's an indication
00:37:39.600though that there's a lot more disarray going on in that caucus like this hasn't been solved with
00:37:43.740the ejection of two members by any means no no there's voices that need to be heard and you know
00:37:49.920there's hundreds of Albertans have reached out to me and said here's the direction they're not happy
00:37:55.640with. And it's usually around not striving for a better deal with Ottawa. It's usually around the
00:38:04.040huge amounts of corporate welfare that this government has used and some cronyism with
00:38:09.620some of the appointments. Certainly it's around the inequity, the hypocrisy, the lack of evidence
00:38:16.600around COVID regulations and the debt. In just two years, we've added over $40 billion of debt
00:38:25.020to the Alberta taxpayer, our kids and our economy. I guess it's sad that two or three
00:38:36.940years ago, we were saying, oh, no, bad NDP is going to put us over $100 billion in debt.
00:38:42.160And I think now we're past 110. So one's as bad as the other in many ways. And those are the
00:38:48.220things that I'm hearing about every day from Albertans. And, you know, it was COVID, you know,
00:38:55.200it's been tough for everybody. It's been a lot of fog. But I'll suggest that we missed an
00:39:00.220opportunity to show that Alberta can be the beacon of free enterprise, self-reliance,
00:39:07.880you know, prosperity, and the opportunity to, you know, by providing evidence, by providing,
00:39:13.800you know, measures so Albertans know, you know, some of the more information about COVID. We missed
00:39:20.120an opportunity to show that we can be the beacon of freedom and prosperity.
00:39:24.800Yeah, well, I mean, all we can hope for now is hopefully we can be the first recovering or the
00:39:29.100best recovering from this nightmare. But we got to start taking the foot off the brakes that have
00:39:33.640been holding the economy back right now. And it's a horror story. So you did make it and it was
00:39:39.240appreciated clear that you plan on representing Medicine Hat longer and you'll be running in the
00:39:43.640next election. That's still a couple of years away though. And there's a, I mean, running as an
00:39:48.200independent puts you at a tremendous disadvantage. I mean, that's just a reality. Independents become
00:39:53.000very, very rarely elected in the Canadian system, which really is too bad. I think it would really1.00
00:39:58.300be great if every legislature of parliament had like a good number of independents sitting there
00:40:03.120to really keep the debate lively and keep people honest. But I mean, I know it's early, it's only
00:40:08.400been five days since this all changed and everything, but there's a number of potential
00:40:11.980avenues ahead of you, partisan-wise, have you considered any of those? Well, yeah, I sure have,
00:40:18.440and I'm so grateful to all the people that have reached out to me and expressed their ideas and
00:40:22.460their thoughts and their concerns. First step is to talk to my family, my wife and my three adult
00:40:27.140sons. Second step is to talk to my constituents and see the direction that they would like me
00:40:32.300to take and start to gather information as to what is being offered, what the different
00:40:37.920suggestions are. Corey, I understand Ontario just passed some new legislation that allows
00:40:43.820independents to set up constituency associations, to raise money in between the election periods.
00:40:50.880Of course, with oversight from, you know, in our case, it would be Elections Alberta,
00:40:55.000their case, Elections Ontario. I've asked for a copy of that legislation to see what Ontario's
00:41:00.160doing. Maybe that's reform that we could use here. And I'll be looking into that. You know,
00:41:05.800there's tens of thousands of Albertans that feel their voice is not being heard. I mean, the NDP,
00:41:12.960big government, big debt, you know, bureaucracy, you know, wasn't satisfactory. And that was shown
00:41:20.400two years ago in the UCP victory. Now we're at a situation where Jason Kenney's popularity is
00:41:26.920lower than Justin Trudeau's. People are feeling that expectations haven't been met. You know,
00:41:33.080there's a there's a lot of work to do there's a lot of ideas and voices to to be put to to the
00:41:38.380to the forefront and uh yeah and uh i i'm willing and and i'm excited about the opportunity to to
00:41:46.740help out so uh yeah so so many of the groups of of the new some of the newer groups have reached out
00:41:51.780with their ideas and i think it's going to be a very very interesting six or eight months
00:41:56.840as either the UCP pivots or these groups start to form.
00:43:19.380and it just seems that Ottawa is determined to hinder us with every possible step in getting
00:43:24.640our resources to market and getting them out. What can we be doing? What the heck is left for
00:43:29.620us to try and push this envelope right now? Yeah, well, it's one of the reasons that I
00:43:35.480am a proponent of an independence referendum. Let's put Ottawa on notice that they've got two
00:43:40.600years, three years to give Albertans a better deal and then let Albertans hold Ottawa to account.
00:43:46.300Let Albertans say if they've done good enough to help us.
00:43:51.060Now, we had a good court victory the other day where turning off the TAPS legislation looks like it's legal.
00:43:59.280I think that did expire and has to be started again.
00:44:03.560But the long and the short of that, that's a tool that must be in our tool chest, you know, must be used if absolutely necessary.
00:44:11.040But that one has some unintended consequences, right?
00:44:13.680So let's use that one when we have to, when it's the best.
00:44:17.500But the nice thing about an independence referendum is Albertans, 80% of people at the fair deal panel and in the coffee shops tell me that they want a better deal.
00:44:27.000This will allow them to be involved in making these things happen.
00:44:31.360And, of course, we've talked about, you know, the famous autonomy ideas, you know, the so-called firewall ideas.
00:44:37.740you know, so many of those things would give people the confidence and the idea that Alberta
00:44:43.360can take care of our own issues. And absolutely we can. We're hardworking risk takers, intelligent
00:44:49.480people. We should have that opportunity. One thing we haven't talked about, the area of concern that
00:44:55.900I hear a lot is about the appointments, you know, the cronyism, the corporate welfare that people
00:45:04.140are are upset with the ucp for you know the fact that alberta has the highest per capita deficit
00:45:10.700in all canada right now you know is is alarming you know secondly there's been a number of of
00:45:16.240committees set up and appointments for washington for houston you know for around the world where
00:45:22.500we haven't seen uh the cost benefit analysis or or the effectiveness of the last stuff and and that
00:45:28.140was stuff that I had been asking for. And let's look at the $1.6 billion that might have been
00:45:33.900lost in the Keystone pipeline. You know, that's one that just still amazes me. You know, Premier
00:45:40.120Kenney and the UCP comes in, $1.6 billion to TC Energy for the pipeline. Money's certainly in
00:45:47.540jeopardy now. At the same time, cancelling all the NDP, Rachel Notley, taxpayer money redirected
00:45:57.600to oil by rail. So I'm sitting here listening to UCP corporate welfare good, NDP corporate
00:46:04.880welfare bad. Corey, what Albertans are telling me is both are bad. Let us keep more of our
00:46:10.520own taxpayer dollars. Let's let free enterprise be free enterprise with as low as taxes as0.99
00:46:16.380possible. Let's get our regulation right. And let's make those things happen. The COVID0.65
00:46:22.600restrictions. You know, I saw you out about this drive-in, you know, crazy thing that looks like
00:46:30.840it happened on the weekend. You know, the church example still blows my mind how, you know, you
00:46:36.640could have, you know, 10 for a funeral, you know, 20 for a wedding, whatever it was, and then a
00:46:42.640different amount for the, just based on the square footage. At the same time, retail was being opened
00:46:47.400up to 25%. You know, people were looking for fairness and consistency that they didn't feel
00:46:52.560was delivered. And so those are the things that have led to Albertans feeling that expectations
00:46:59.120haven't been met. Yeah, well, consistency, I mean, that's the only way we're going to get confidence.
00:47:03.680And we're certainly known. We're not seeing that at all, this shotgun approach. I mean,
00:47:07.400if it's the emergency of the century, we want to be confident that our experts know what they're
00:47:11.280talking about. When they're bouncing around like a ping pong ball with what is and isn't acceptable,
00:47:14.860It makes it hard to believe what may be some good advice coming out of them at times.
00:47:18.760It makes it difficult for people to comply, even if they want to.
00:47:22.040And yeah, there's a lot of areas of critique outside of the pandemic and that's getting forgotten.
00:47:27.160You know, things like the corporate welfare.
00:47:28.680I mean, if you want a kiss of death to any kind of enterprise or business, get a government to partner in on it and you're sure to destroy it.
00:47:36.620I'd like to remind everybody whenever they drive south of Calgary, they see a big red brick behemoth just before High River on the right.
00:47:42.580this giant building it's been sitting there for almost 30 years and that was the mag can plant
00:47:47.660and that's when the progressive conservatives took half a billion alberta tax dollars and put
00:47:51.860it into this magnesium plant it was only open for a month and is now sat there empty for that long
00:47:56.460because it's so specialized we can't do anything with it and we haven't seemed to have learned from
00:47:59.640that because we keep putting money in uh as you said like keystone um yeah it's it's uh the one
00:48:08.720I did a Premier Kenny on my show last fall, actually, and the one area where he kind of got
00:48:13.020his ackles up a bit, the guy I couldn't help but ask, I questioned, I said, is this a wise investment
00:48:17.520at this time, you know, going into things like that? And he gave a long, rambling, kind of annoyed
00:48:23.500answer that I even asked, but it sounds like maybe I kind of was on the right track, unfortunately,
00:48:28.200not soon enough. Yeah. So what I'd like to see us do instead, Corey, is right now, small businesses
00:48:34.280pay 2% corporate tax to the Alberta treasury on top of the 10% they pay to Ottawa. Manitoba's is
00:48:42.560zero. There's provincial small tax. Saskatchewan temporarily reduced theirs to zero, I believe,
00:48:49.220for a year and a half. I think that the Alberta government should do the same. If anybody has been
00:48:54.920hardest hit by this pandemic and these COVID restrictions and lockdown, it's small business.
00:49:00.340let's give them an opportunity to have some hope and get back on their feet a bit earlier.
00:49:05.920The number I think it is, is that would cost the treasury about $450 million.
00:49:10.440And when we're spending $55 billion, surely to goodness, we can find that saving somewhere in
00:49:14.940there. And, you know, instead of adding more debt to our kids and our economy. And, you know,
00:49:20.380that was one of the suggestions I've been making. Yeah, just deregulate, get out of our pockets and
00:49:25.200let us go. We got a lot of smart, ambitious Albertans who want to work and get things rolling
00:49:29.780again. There's no doubt about that. For now, it's going to be you and Todd over in the lonely
00:49:36.420independent corner of the legislature. I know you can't say anything specific or you don't know,
00:49:41.940but do you think there's a chance there's going to be some others joining you in the months to come?
00:49:47.140You know, I don't know. I just hope that Premier Kenny and the UCP will pivot.
00:49:55.380I hope that we can start to make Alberta, you know, free and prosperous.
00:50:00.260I know that a lot of my great colleagues from the UCP past spoke up consistently about their ideas,
00:50:08.100you know, and within caucus and that kind of thing. So I'd encourage them to continue to do
00:50:13.940that. And I would also say this to them, Corey, like, since Thursday night at 735, I've had
00:50:20.500thousands of Albertans reach out to me and support me and give me ideas and encourage me.
00:50:27.460And so there's a lot of reward for, you know, being a bit more, always being focused on
00:50:36.740Albertans. And I think that, you know, UCP colleagues, I think, will find a way to do
00:50:44.660their best. And I'm optimistic that good things will happen for Alberta.
00:50:49.140Yeah, well, that's good. And again, it's not like they're all bad. And there's some very good members in that caucus still. And, you know, just getting back to another fall thing, actually, just I preface the interview with Premier Kenney with saying that he tends to only get opposition from the left. And what I meant actually was literally in the legislature, because at that point, the only opposition members were NDP. But the media got all worked up over that in the interview, thinking I was talking about them. Well, come to think of it, yeah, them too.
00:51:15.140But I mean, for a proper legislature to function, you do need critical voices on either side.
00:51:22.520And even though this is kind of a painful way to go about it, we now have those voices building up.
00:51:27.160So it's not just, you know, the leader of the opposition, Rachel Notley, speaking up and always pushing from.
00:51:32.520Well, and fair enough, that's where she comes from, the left perspective.
00:51:36.280We can have somebody critical on the conservative side of the spectrum,
00:51:39.500representing that question on corporate welfare overspending over taxation things like that so
00:51:45.560i do appreciate that you know you've always been critical anyways of that but you'll as you said
00:51:50.220you'll you'll have a much more uh ability to do so without restraint now in coming months and uh
00:51:56.040as will todd and perhaps some others so we might get just some more productive government out of
00:52:00.460it for all of us hopefully yeah yeah thanks for that correct you're absolutely right like
00:52:04.720like in the legislature the the opposition has been from the left when whenever premier kenny
00:52:11.680and the ucp put in some regulations uh covid restrictions is an example or whenever they
00:52:16.580went into debt it was never enough for rachel notley in the ndp it was always about more
00:52:20.660government more regulations more lockdown less freedom for our families and our communities
00:52:25.520uh so now with a couple of voices uh that are going to be focused on freedom going to be
00:52:32.840focused on smaller government, going to be focused on local decision-making. I mean,
00:52:37.380that could go a long way to help. I mean, just back to 2012, when I was first elected,
00:52:42.660the makeup was something like 54 PCs, 17 wild rows. We were the official opposition.
00:52:49.780We were a heck of a good opposition for the first two and a half years as well.
00:52:54.260And, you know, there was a lot of opposition to move on the right, to move things to more
00:53:00.680conservative. I believe there was five liberals and four NDP in those days. So things have changed
00:53:05.940a lot. But to me, you know, that showed the heartbeat of conservatism in Alberta and showed
00:53:12.100the value of opposition from the right, ideas from the right, criticism from the right. And when
00:53:18.640things were, you know, the opportunity to reach out and work together was there as well. So let's
00:53:24.080see what the future brings for that. Yeah, well, I've long said some of the best federal government
00:53:37.540one of the more responsible governments at his time in some ways. So before you go, then,
00:53:42.660you want to lay out a bit where people can find what you're up to this summer and spring and
00:53:46.560where you're going and how to reach out? Yeah, thank you, Corey. Well, for starting,
00:53:51.520I'll be in Edmonton next Tuesday. The legislature is supposed to reconvene after the long weekend.
00:53:57.620So so I will be there for that. I'm setting up an office, you know, close to Todd Lowen so we can, you know, come see how we can work together down here in Medicine Hat.
00:54:11.200I can always be reached at my constituency office at 403-528-2191.
00:54:19.580And another way is email me, and that is drew.barnes at assembly.ab.ca.
00:54:27.500If you weren't able to write down, it's easy to find on the internet.
00:54:31.460And thanks for this way to end, Corey, because that's my goal.
00:54:35.140Talk to my family, talk to my constituents, talk to Albertans,
00:54:38.740and give them a voice for the tens of thousands that have told me that their ideas, their
00:54:43.720concerns haven't made it to government, haven't made it to the legislature, and that is going
00:56:00.000and he's giving very honest and candid answers. You know, he's not ruling anything out. That's
00:56:04.900the way you have to go in politics, that the never say never, right? Maybe Jason Kenney will
00:56:10.120finally just give up, throw his hat, you know, get out of the race in a week or two where a bunch
00:56:15.820of other MLAs will join. There's so many areas that Drew and Todd, who's going to be coming on
00:56:22.760soon, could end up going. I do worry about, as I mentioned earlier, and at the lack of a party
00:56:28.300structure like uh having worked in these these politics and opposition politics and you know
00:56:33.180smaller parties for a long time it's just so darn tough to get uh viewed critically get your voice
00:56:41.260out there when you don't have a party mechanism around you as todd said i mean it's todd as drew
00:56:47.500said you know ontario they did something to give independence a means for constituency associations
00:56:51.340and i'm surprised you know we really should have something like that it's just an organization
00:56:55.420helps empower that individual mla we gotta you know government's supposed to be 87 individuals
00:57:02.140and our system our parliamentary system just doesn't aid with that you know i mean it doesn't
00:57:09.500let them speak up i mean one of the things that the american system is far from perfect
00:57:13.260but you'll watch votes and often you'll see a number of senators will vote one way and another
00:57:17.820with others you know sometimes a republican will vote with a democratic motion um
00:57:21.740Sorry. There we go. Todd, messaging me during the show. That's cool. He's coming on. But I mean,
00:57:34.460party options that could come along either way that could give them more voice. Now,
00:57:37.640I believe if you have four members of the legislature who get together, they can actually
00:57:43.060get a registered party immediately. There's other ways of forming parties. There's other existing
00:57:49.160parties. I mean, would they consider joining Paul Hinman with the Wildrose Independence Party?
00:57:53.320He's not ruling it out, but it's not necessarily in either. So I don't want to pin Drew or Todd
00:58:01.440into a corner because, you know, this is just a time where they're making a lot of decisions. And
00:58:07.320I did appreciate it, Drew. He's listening. So now's the time to email Drew. And he is good
00:58:11.600and responsive and Todd always has been as well. You know, just sorry. Give you guys a break there
00:58:26.040anyways. So we're gonna have Todd on soon. And if you got questions, fire them into the text area.
00:58:31.220I try to bring them in, you know, when I can, but sometimes they go by too fast and try to make
00:58:36.740them a little bit small, you know, so I can get them up on the screen like that one down below
00:58:40.460there. And, uh, you know, I'll try and get, uh, uh, guests to address them or I'll address them
00:58:47.080myself. The other thing is to try and keep the chat civil. You know, we can have some debate
00:58:52.640in the chat. That's been part of the fun that having a live show is, uh, being able to interact
00:58:58.240with each other, interact with the guests. But if you're going to just come on and insult and
00:59:02.100then blasted people, uh, there was a gentleman who was doing that earlier. I blocked him. I will do
00:59:06.080that. I support free speech, but it doesn't mean I have to give you a platform. So if you're going
00:59:10.120to come on and call my guests names or call me names or we're calling people outside of that you
00:59:14.460know just just being foolish then then i don't have time for you you're uh defeating that good
00:59:20.140interactive purpose of this kind of show so but i mean again get those those questions in because
00:59:25.060it's it's it's an opportunity uh these guys are going to be pretty busy in these coming months
00:59:30.580as i said they're they're going to be the unofficial conservative opposition sitting over
00:59:34.380in the corner of the legislature there. And they're going to need all the support and help
00:59:41.340they can get. So I'm just waiting. I should have Todd on any moment now. You know, I'm going to do
00:59:47.400a self-serving thing I want to mention. Let's talk about citizens standing up for themselves
00:59:51.440and activity. It's not self-serving for myself so much, but it's a story that Derek Felderbrand,
00:59:56.660our publisher, put out the other day over an affair he had over the course of the winter.
01:00:01.000He had a Karen, as it's put quite often, down the road from him who was constantly reporting him for not shoveling his walk properly and his neighbors as well.
01:00:10.260And it was over and over and bylaw officers would come out and they would find no wrongdoing, have a chat and leave.
01:00:16.740But at one point, Derek wasn't home and he ended up getting an invoice for not clearing his walk.
01:16:28.320it was a small circle leading the government,
01:16:30.720running the government and the backbenchers were kind of just sidelined.
01:16:35.560Has it evolved to this point or has it always been like this?
01:16:38.600No, I think it's, you know, it might've been true right from the start,
01:16:42.720but I think there was a lot of good things government was doing and it was,
01:16:46.400it was pretty easy to be on board when the government's on the right track.
01:16:50.200But once, you know, Albertans and my constituents started having serious
01:16:55.000problems with the direction of this government and the directions of the
01:16:57.940senior then it became harder to do and and I guess you know sometimes and maybe
01:17:02.980it's that honeymoon stage at the beginning of something like that that
01:17:06.340it's a little easier to accept what's going on and and work with it but it
01:17:11.380became very apparent that as time went on that this was a this was a one-man
01:17:15.640show and you know it was obviously again the opportunity to listen to and
01:17:21.840uh opportunity to influence government direction was incredibly limited yeah just as cheryl was
01:17:29.200asking was there one particular tipping point though just uh a final straw that kind of last
01:17:33.520week you said i can't take it anymore you know uh again it was probably the caucus meetings
01:17:39.840cancellations that were was probably the actual tipping point um but you know what it was building
01:17:45.120in the constituency long before that of course with the the unrest within the constituency
01:17:49.760and and again i just uh you know there has to be a time when i have to you know when i had to take
01:17:54.400it take a stand and just say nobody you know enough is enough we have to you know i have to
01:18:00.400be there for the reason i was elected which is representing my constituents and and uh obviously
01:18:05.440again you know it seems like it's fairly widespread across alberta and i'm getting people from calgary
01:18:10.640reaching out all the time now thanking me for doing what i did and uh it is it is humbling to
01:18:16.080see the responses so far. Yeah. Well, and a lot of Albertans are terrified at the prospect of
01:18:23.520another NDP government to be blunt about it. And we worry about fracturing the government that's
01:18:28.080in power. And at the same time, we're seeing that we just can't tolerate that government any longer.
01:18:32.800But let's say in a fictional scenario, Jason Kenney has finally said, okay, I blew it. I'm
01:18:38.400going to step back. I'm going to retire on my member of parliament's pension. It's time for
01:18:42.240somebody else to take the reins and you got back in with the government, whoever the leader maybe,
01:18:48.880what would the UCP need to do in the next two years to turn this around? Because the numbers
01:18:54.400are in the toilet. I mean, at best, you could have a minority government if something doesn't
01:18:58.160change, even if the leader changes. Yeah. And you're exactly right that
01:19:03.840right now the NDP would win the election. So we need to rest that out of their hands and we need
01:19:09.440to get things back on track and and I think it's really all about building
01:19:13.960trust with Albertans that's that's what was lost I think it's a it seems like a
01:19:18.020simple phrase you know that you've lost trust but of course rebuilding trust is
01:19:23.720extremely hard it's not that it's not as easy as losing it and that's that's the
01:19:27.500problem is that the premier has lost trust of Albertans and trying to
01:19:31.460rebuild that it's incredibly hard and I think at this point impossible but if we
01:19:35.840can uh have a leadership change and get things back on track i think we can uh we can get that
01:19:41.180trust back i think because it has been uh you know just virtually one person making all the
01:19:47.520decisions i think we can get things back on track i can say there's many good people in the in the
01:19:51.620party with many good people in uh as mlas and in government right now that uh it can help us get
01:19:57.580that done yeah well i mean just you know having government do what they said they were going to
01:20:02.540do would be a refreshing change, I think. I mean, something that would put me off other parties,
01:20:07.120even if the NDP was saying, well, this is our policy here, here, and here, and then they don't
01:20:11.440do any of it. Well, again, it gets back to that trust thing. So you're going to pay lip service
01:20:16.080to whatever you want, but I am not going to get that in the end. So things like the fair deal
01:20:21.800panel and such, I mean, that seems to have been just a listening exercise with no action. Did you
01:20:27.680see any signs that it's ever going to happen or was that just a truly a bait and switch?
01:20:32.000Well, you know, I mean, there's always lots of talk about that.
01:20:34.520And that's something that gets talked about a lot.
01:20:36.220I mean, we know where Albertans are on so many of these issues.
01:20:40.880And, of course, it seems like the plan is always to have another group, another committee and study things some more.
01:20:48.240And some of these decisions are big when it comes to the fair deal.
01:20:51.460I mean, some of these issues are big and there does need to be some groundwork done before we make decisions on that.
01:20:57.440But I think some of these things were pretty straightforward.
01:21:00.600And I think when you look at how we dealt with Ottawa, it just seems like, you know, it seems like a strongly worded letter is what we do when really we should be doing so much more.
01:21:23.880Yeah. Well, and to be honest, again, when the trust is broken, even if Premier Kennedy started talking tougher on those issues, well, we've been down this road. I mean, are you just leading us along again? But let's say that Premier Kennedy maintains a spot, the course continues, they continue to sink further in the polls and into disarray. What can we do in two years? I mean, if we can't vote UCP, are you looking at, you know, other
01:21:53.860alternatives out there for Albertans to pick in an election? You know, not right now. I guess I
01:21:58.980still have confidence in Albertans and in the party and that we can, that Albertans will be
01:22:04.860able to get their message across through people like myself and others and get this, you know,
01:22:12.500get the change in leadership that we need so we can get this party back on track. And, you know,
01:22:17.800so I still have confidence in that. I don't want to give up on that yet. You and I both know how
01:22:22.260hard it is to start a new party and work up from that ground up but obviously I
01:22:27.300started in 2008 that's when I ran the first time and I think we met shortly
01:22:31.800after that at the first AGM with the Wild Rose Alliance at the time and so I
01:22:36.880know I've been in those trenches a long time and I know it's hard to start a new
01:22:40.660party but but it's you know we have to say I think we owe it to ourselves to do
01:22:47.200everything we can to get this the UCP party back on track and get a new leader
01:22:52.140and then get ourselves set to go into the next election.
01:22:55.800Yeah, well, I mean, the most immediately effective way to fix this,
01:29:13.680All right. Well, it's been an interesting week and I'm certain we're in for, again, an interesting couple of years ahead of us here. Just, you know, speaking for myself and I see from the commenters, though, I mean, we are, you know, the people who follow my show tend to have their slant as well, but they're very supportive of what you've done.
01:29:32.620and hopefully it's a catalyst for positive, you know, reform and change and changing the tone
01:29:38.620of what's going on in there. So is there anything else you'd like to add before I let you get back
01:29:43.500to work on what I'm sure has been a very tiring week already? Yes, yes, it has been busy and,
01:29:48.540but no, Corey, I think that sums it up. I mean, we've got to get a change happening. We've got to,
01:29:53.340we have to, you know, have a new leader in the party, the UCC party. We've got to stay focused
01:29:59.020on that. And again, we can, we can do that respectfully. And, and it's obviously something
01:30:04.780that has to be done to get things back on track and appreciate you having me here and everything.
01:30:10.060I think it's a great opportunity and it's always interesting to hear the comments that people have.
01:30:16.540Great. Thanks. Well, I'm certain we'll be talking again soon as things develop and unfold and well,
01:30:22.140I look forward to hearing what you have to say in the new reconfigured legislature.
01:30:26.620Hey, sounds great, Corey. Thanks again. And have a good day.
01:30:36.620So there we go. And yeah, it was nice seeing Todd again. I'm out of touch with the grassroots
01:30:42.060organizational world, I guess you could say there. It's difficult chatting with Todd and
01:30:47.900Andrew in some senses, because yes, this is all just broken recently. And what I like is that
01:30:52.140they're being reasoned they're being rational with this you know there's no sense saying i'm running
01:30:56.700off and starting a new party or joining this one or tearing this down they're just frustrated and
01:31:03.820they've run out of mechanisms in order to do what they're supposed to do and that's represent their
01:31:07.820constituents i'm an ideologue or an idealist in some ways i mean i our system theoretically you
01:31:13.820know works so well right we have all these 87 areas and all these 87 voices but realistically
01:31:20.460it gets whipped all the way down i was talking a bit about that before todd came on i mean you see
01:31:23.980that in the english system as well and more the american ones they don't necessarily toe the party
01:31:28.300line like they do here uh in canada it's just you know they put out these token free votes now and
01:31:35.580then but if it's ever anything of substance or matter they will be told how to vote and behind
01:31:40.780closed doors they're going to be told what to say what to go public on what not to go public onto
01:31:45.660so to see them breaking out like this i i do believe can turn into positive change you know
01:31:51.340not just uh you know case of adding some anarchy and uh stirring things up or just trying to
01:31:57.980undercut a leader they're trying to make better government i mean it's a thankless tough job
01:32:02.780being an mla whether people believe it or not it's it's a lot of work and uh it'd be easy to
01:32:08.620just hide in the back bench and do as you're told uh it's more stress-free and you can just carry on
01:32:13.580But Drew and Todd have chosen to step out on their own and speak for their constituents.
01:32:21.220And it's not the easier path, but it's a principal one.
01:37:45.880Our own pension plan, same thing. It's a step out the door. Let's start inching our way towards the door. So people are saying we should hold a referendum tomorrow. Well, that would be the worst thing we could possibly do. Because realistically, I mean, I understand that secessionism is often pulling quite high, especially after a particular incident. But I have learned as running as somebody on that platform twice, when push comes to shove and actually putting that mark on the box, people change their minds. We need a lot more support before we're
01:38:15.860ready for a referendum. It's not saying we won't get there. We just aren't there yet. So let's not
01:38:21.180jump the gun. If you held a referendum and only 20% voted to go, you're not going to get another
01:38:26.900chance for at least a decade. I guarantee you. So let's get our ducks in a row first before we
01:38:32.520even think about that. And I've talked about that before too. I'm looking forward to the
01:38:38.600equalization referendum. And I'll explain why. Because I mean, some people are saying, you know,
01:38:44.180Oh, it's pointless. It's useless. It's not going to change anything. And there's some truth to that. Absolutely. Because it's constitutionally entrenched. Plus, Ottawa doesn't care what we think. That's nothing new. But it's valuable in a number of sentences. Because it's going to be turned into a proxy independence vote. That's the reality. The people who want us to vote saying we love equalization, we love interprovincial welfare, which is what it is, are going to say anybody voting against this is a separatist, is looking for independence. And it won't be true. No, people are voting against the program.
01:39:13.320but it will bring it to that point and it will bring those regional discussions to the forefront
01:39:18.480there'll be months of campaigning on those issues what for it's pointless Heather saying well what
01:39:24.800do you want to do go straight to an independence one and lose that's what I'm talking about we've
01:39:29.000got to go in steps you know what you also have during a three-month campaign period on an
01:39:34.480equalization referendum you have tens of thousands of Albertans getting a practice run on how to
01:39:39.540campaign in a referendum. That is of value. These are the people when we do get the independence
01:39:45.300referendum, and we will, but we need to know how to do it. How do you campaign? How do you organize?
01:39:51.580How do you get people out to vote? How do you get the winning referendum, not just a referendum?
01:39:57.940We aren't there yet, but we can work towards it. Fair Deal panel points out a whole lot of those
01:40:03.900steps in getting us towards it. Fixing our own provincial bloody government is definitely one
01:40:09.260of the steps towards it. We have to sit, you know, secessionism made so much sense when our budget
01:40:13.880was balanced, when we were moving towards things of more freedoms. We had a flat tax, things like
01:40:19.640that, because we could say we're so much better than Ottawa. We would be so much better on our
01:40:23.920own. But right now we aren't. So let's fix that. But the equalization referendum, that gives us a
01:40:30.500goal for this year. That gives us something to work on. I mean, we've got a million other things
01:40:33.440to work on. But I'm looking forward to this ramping up as we go towards this fall. Let's talk about
01:40:39.060all those things because this is going to be a top-notch issue on regionalism on how the west
01:40:45.220has been getting screwed for decades you know and you listen to the academics and the economists oh
01:40:49.380people don't understand how equalization works you know it's not just a check gets written ottawa i
01:40:54.420know and you know what if we don't understand it properly what better opportunity than to have a
01:40:59.380whole campaign on it and a vote on it let's talk about it then explain it to us talk to us lowly
01:41:05.620Albertans and explain why we should happily have a large chunk of our money sucked out of our
01:41:11.220pockets and given to Quebec because that's the reality of it. While we're hurting, while we're
01:41:15.560trying to rebuild, you're shutting in our pipelines and you're stealing our money.
01:41:20.360That's the discussion I want to have all summer. That's the real discussion and it's going to be
01:41:24.460hard to defend. And yes, it's a step towards the bigger referendum. So when probably majority
01:41:32.480prime minister justin trudeau this fall tells us to take our referendum results roll them up and
01:41:39.360stuff them up our collective butts okay that's when we start working towards the next referendum
01:41:45.760we've had our practice run we know how to do it now we do have the clarity act it does give us
01:41:52.160the path to get out that's the real hammer that's the real tool but we've got to work towards it
01:41:58.240carefully not just inflamed right now it has to be progressive it has to be step by step and we
01:42:05.040aren't getting that from the ucp he's he's pandered to that he talked about the fair deal panel he
01:42:10.640talked about talking tough to ottawa and he hasn't even talked up to ottawa so yeah we're not going
01:42:15.320to go anywhere as well until we either fix or replace the ucp so we got our work cut out for us
01:42:19.800but it's not all negative you know we just got to look big picture look long run we can do this we've
01:42:26.820got some good representatives. I'm hoping, and here's for a second, Teresa is saying,
01:42:31.840can we use the notwithstanding clause on equalization? No, I don't believe we can.
01:42:36.460The notwithstanding clause is something that's misinterpreted quite a bit. It applies to charter
01:42:42.300issues. So if we lost something on a charter challenge, we could exempt ourselves using the
01:42:47.880notwithstanding clause, such as language, things with Quebec and things like that.
01:42:50.760but it's actually constitutional, which is the issue with the equalization. So the notwithstanding
01:42:57.720won't apply. It won't make a difference. The only way to fully end equalization would be with
01:43:03.600constitutional reform, which is impossible. It's not going to happen. Those of us old enough to
01:43:08.240remember Meach Lake and Charlottetown, which were in my view, relatively modest constitutional
01:43:12.200reforms, and they failed dismally. So to try and package up what we need, and that's what I'm
01:43:17.440saying Canada is broken and our constitution is out of date. It's centralized. It's no good.
01:43:22.560And only for ripping a province out of this confederation will we ever have the opportunity
01:43:26.680to try and rebuild it because otherwise we won't get the will to get into that constitution. The
01:43:31.320best we can hope for the equalization is they changed the formula. So the equalization is still
01:43:34.780there, but they really wouldn't move as much money as they ever did to begin with. You could change
01:43:39.140the formula, but to actually change the constitution itself, that, that I just don't
01:43:44.720see it happening in canada ever until the province is out until you get a real crisis of unity and uh
01:43:50.880i think it's coming let's keep uh let's keep feeding it let's keep moving it uh we got angela
01:43:56.800coming in saying first time watcher yes another rodeo please last one was super uh you know just
01:44:02.640bouncing off to the side here but that's fine uh ty northcott again you're showing albertans
01:44:07.600will stand up and tell government to go to hell and he's done a great job and he's still doing it
01:44:12.000he's uh uh been talking about having another pop-up rodeo coming soon i've heard a rumor of
01:44:18.000and as i was saying we should stick one on one of the reserves let's uh see if not leo call for all
01:44:22.720those natives to get arrested because they're holding that drive in with impunity and the
01:44:25.840silence is still deafening uh heather asking how can quebec use the notwithstanding clause if they
01:44:32.800never signed on to the constitution well despite not having signed in there's still a part of it
01:44:38.160and I know it's a Quebec keeps one foot on one side and one foot on the other side you know what
01:44:44.160instead of complaining about Quebec we gotta learn from Quebec emulate them stand up for ourselves
01:44:49.200quit whining about them they know where it's at don't apologize for being Quebec first well we
01:44:54.880shouldn't apologize for being Alberta first that's enough Saskatchewan first non lower mainland BC
01:45:01.520first. Yukon first. Let's do it. You know, Quebec, why do they get their way? Because they stand up
01:45:09.400for themselves. Because they push for it. We're dishrags. We got to stop it. It's us. It's up to
01:45:17.400us. But we do have the ability to do it. We've got to take it on. But again, as I said, we got to do
01:45:22.700it carefully. We've got to work at it progressively. And we've got some good people. We've got some
01:45:28.360elected officials we saw that with todd we saw that withdrew we know there's more of them in
01:45:32.760that caucus there's more of them in the legislation or the legislature i should say uh let's get them
01:45:41.000over let's shake this thing up let's change it either way there's lots to work on this summer
01:45:46.920lots of issues are breaking and you know i i didn't get the plug in to begin with so please
01:45:51.160remember we you know as we saw it breaking last week the western standard had the exclusive we
01:45:56.680We were live reporting as the vote was going on to eject Drew Barnes and Todd Lowen from the caucus.