Western Standard - The Cory Morgan Show： The Free Alberta Strategy

00:00:00.000 Okay, I'm joined today with a special interview with Derek Fromm. He's one of the people involved

00:00:13.240 with the new group Free Alberta Strategy, which came out with a press conference the other day,

00:00:18.600 that is really coming up with a different and certainly much more, I guess you could say,

00:00:24.360 aggressive approach to standing up for provincial rights. So good to see you today, Derek, you're

00:00:29.640 always got your hands into a whole pile of things. I'm happy to see you working on this one.

00:00:34.080 Well, thanks for having me. This is a great opportunity to talk about something very,

00:00:37.680 very important.

00:00:39.240 So I'll start with, you know, there's a number of groups that have a regional focus or they're

00:00:43.440 focused on the equalization referendum or confederation in general. What distinguishes

00:00:48.060 the group that you guys have just launched from those?

00:00:51.240 So I think what first attracted me to this concept that we developed in this paper was

00:00:59.460 that we've only ever discussed Canada in two contexts. We've discussed Alberta within Canada

00:01:06.300 and Alberta outside of Canada. And those were very clearly defined as secession or effectively status

00:01:13.580 quo or some minor tweaks. Like let's just give some minor tweaks to equalization and everything will

00:01:19.840 be good. But what this strategy does is it gets rid of that, what I think is a false dichotomy.

00:01:26.560 There's not just two options available to us. We found a third way. And that third way is to find

00:01:32.740 an Alberta with greater autonomy and greater independence within Canada. And that to us is

00:01:40.020 much more palatable to Albertans. And it's also potentially an avenue where we'll have more success

00:01:49.300 dealing with Ottawa and the constant infringement of political rights and Albertans interests. So this

00:01:56.580 is a unique strategy. It is a different way. And it's to be clear, it's not secession. It is creating

00:02:05.860 a lot more sovereignty and independence of freer Alberta within Canada. And that's very important.

00:02:12.820 Yeah, well, and some of the concepts of things you're promoting are very familiar to us. They said

00:02:18.340 we've been talking about them for a long time, whether it was part of the Alberta agenda or,

00:02:21.940 or other parties promoting it, though, never getting around to it, things like a provincial pension plan

00:02:26.180 and provincial police force and things that other provinces are doing already. What's interesting,

00:02:31.140 those in the fiscal end, you guys are going more into talking about Alberta collecting the money and

00:02:36.340 possibly, I guess, intercepting money before it gets to Ottawa? Like, how could this work necessarily?

00:02:41.940 Well, that's, that's kind of the clever, what I think is very clever about this. And I'd have to

00:02:46.500 say that that's not really my area. But what I think, what I understand from what we need to do is

00:02:53.300 bring about legislation in the, in the province, so that it's not the individual Albertans who are

00:03:00.020 being civilly disobedient. Is this legislation allows the province itself to be civilly

00:03:05.860 disobedient, to withhold, withhold money that would otherwise go to Ottawa, and retain it within

00:03:11.060 the province. And then that increases our autonomy, and allows us to stay within Canada. And you know,

00:03:17.300 it will create a constitutional crisis. There is no if, ands or buts. This, this will not be viewed

00:03:23.940 favourably by Ottawa. But quite frankly, it's been generations, Alberta has been attacked by Ottawa.

00:03:31.780 I mean, it's just, it's a constant litany of attacks. They want to undermine our number one

00:03:36.180 business. They want to get rid of it. We're, we're bad. They're attacking us. They've been pillaging

00:03:41.380 our wealth for generations. They've been taking, extracting money from us and our children and our

00:03:47.700 futures. And then the other side of it is, in our opinion, they violated the constitution again and

00:03:53.940 again. And they've eroded provincial rights to the point where, you know, the most recent carbon tax

00:04:00.180 decision from the Supreme Court, even though that decision upheld the constitutionality of the

00:04:04.820 federal carbon tax, it is a great infringement of provincial rights. And in our opinion, as authors,

00:04:12.900 the only way to really get things back to the way they should have, is to do something serious. And for

00:04:19.380 our provincial government to start enacting the very clear plan, not going to be easy, but the very

00:04:24.740 clear plan that we've developed, demonstrating that Alberta can be sovereign, more sovereign, more

00:04:31.540 independent within Canada. And part of that is holding the purse strings. Yes.

00:04:36.580 Yeah. Well, and some of the approach you've taken is that we're, we're not asking, you're not

00:04:42.820 negotiating. This thing is, let's just make these changes and, and almost, I guess, an attitude towards

00:04:47.780 Ottawa of saying, well, what you're going to do about it. And we, and we do know, as you said,

00:04:51.540 there's going to be a constitutional crisis. Ottawa is going to do something about it.

00:04:57.220 How could we win with what is a stacked court in Canada?

00:05:02.180 Well, you know, the part of the, part of what we've planned here is to bring in what's called the,

00:05:07.220 what we've called the Alberta sovereignty act, where we won't recognize decisions that in the opinion

00:05:12.500 of the legislature of Alberta, too greatly entrench upon provincial rights. So, I mean,

00:05:17.620 the perfect example is the carbon tax decision. It's a federal tax that was upheld by the highest

00:05:22.740 federal court. And we would bring in legislation, making it clear that, yeah, you can have that law

00:05:29.540 and the court can declare that, but in Alberta, it will not be enforced. It will not be enforced

00:05:34.420 against Alberta companies or individuals. And that makes it very complicated. Admittedly,

00:05:40.500 it is a complicated situation, but the plan outlines how other legislation can be brought in

00:05:46.340 to shield Albertans from the consequences of that. And really in the end, in their press conference

00:05:52.820 yesterday, Professor Barry Cooper, who's one of the co-authors of this paper, when he was asked a

00:05:59.700 question like, what's going to happen here? And his, his answer was, you know, this is,

00:06:05.700 the answer is political. The answer is political. There needs to be a groundswell of people who understand

00:06:11.460 and agree and sign on to this greater independence for Alberta, greater autonomy for Alberta.

00:06:18.020 And once, once the groundswell is there, all of a sudden the political will will follow. Now,

00:06:24.420 we've laid out what we think is a plausible plan for a legislature to follow. Can things change?

00:06:31.300 Absolutely. But at this point, Ottawa better start taking Alberta seriously. It takes Quebec seriously.

00:06:37.860 Quebec gets to do what it wants, it seems like in Confederation, doesn't it? They can block pipelines,

00:06:43.380 they can do this or that. Where the Constitution is clear, you can't do those sorts of things as a province.

00:06:49.460 Alberta doesn't have that same sort of privilege, but we've never asked for it.

00:06:54.660 We maybe, maybe what we need to do is grasp it and take it and make that our policy goal.

00:07:02.740 Yeah, well, and I've long said rather than getting upset with Quebec, we should learn and emulate these guys.

00:07:07.060 I mean, they make no bones about it. They're there for Quebec, Quebec first and foremost,

00:07:10.980 and you know what? It works. Why can't we take the same attitude?

00:07:14.500 Yeah, exactly. And I think that's, that's a very important goal. And I think it's one that's going to

00:07:20.500 serve Alberta. So, you know, I was told a while ago that, you know, four generations of Albertans,

00:07:27.060 four generations of Albertans have kicked at the goads of Confederation. We've gotten a bad deal,

00:07:32.740 but you know what? Nothing's really changed. Like we've talked, we've talked and we've talked,

00:07:37.380 but nothing changes. Let's change it. This is a very concrete plan to bring about change.

00:07:44.980 So have you heard any response from anybody in the provincial government to your conference so far?

00:07:50.420 As you said, we got to, you know, if we build the groundswell, the political actors will follow,

00:07:55.380 but I mean, some are perhaps already close to being on board or leaning that way. Have you seen

00:08:00.660 much feedback yet since you began this initiative? So in our press conference yesterday, when we

00:08:06.020 released the report, we were joined by four MLAs. Angela Pitt, who is the MLA for Airdrie, Stefan,

00:08:16.180 who's the MLA out of Red Deer and MLA Lowen and also MLA Drew Barnes. So there are already two of them

00:08:26.740 are UC current UCP members of caucus and the other two, and I guess they've been kicked out and we

00:08:36.020 were very clear, like there's support within the UCP and support without outside of the UCP for this.

00:08:43.540 And quite frankly, this is not a UCP or a Kenney or anything bashing agenda. It is just not that.

00:08:51.460 Anyone, any politician could sign on to this. We would love if the NDP MLAs that are sitting right

00:08:57.220 now in the legislature would sign on. There's no reason they couldn't because what we need is greater

00:09:03.380 autonomy from, back to that same thing, greater autonomy for Alberta within confederation and all

00:09:10.020 Albertans will be served best, even the NDP, because suddenly if we enact this sort of agenda

00:09:16.100 and all of our equalization payments that are being extracted from us as we're being pillaged

00:09:22.660 can be used on services here within this province. You want the best healthcare in the world? Well,

00:09:28.740 here's a route that we can do so that we can afford healthcare. Do you want better education? Well,

00:09:34.260 let's keep some of our own money within this province to pay for our own education. Currently,

00:09:39.380 the game is rigged. The game is rigged so that we pay money to other provinces not to develop their

00:09:45.860 resources. This is not what confederation was originally about. It's not what it should be about

00:09:51.460 now. We need to get our partners in confederation to take us seriously. We need to be free within

00:10:02.900 Canada. We need greater autonomy. Yeah, well, and to be able to keep those resources home,

00:10:08.820 and we've got to let people know about that. You hear it all the time, say, why can't we be more

00:10:11.780 like Norway? Well, Norway doesn't have a Quebec to pay for. If we'd have kept those resources and funds

00:10:17.460 over the last 30, 40 years that have been taken away in equalization, now as a big assumption that

00:10:22.660 we managed it responsibly, we could have a giant fund just like Norway as well. That's right. And

00:10:28.260 you know, that would be the goal. That would be the goal that we would be able to use our own resources

00:10:33.940 and the fruits of our own labor within this province to benefit our province. And so you can see from

00:10:41.300 that, it's not an agenda or not a strategy that fits better within any particular political party.

00:10:49.460 Any party that is representing Albertans, this should be attractive to them.

00:10:55.540 It should. I mean, they're concepts rather than a party thing. So that's good to see,

00:10:58.660 because our partisan sphere right now is something of a hornet's nest anyways. So it'd be nice to bring

00:11:03.380 focus back to these issues that have been kind of lost lately. We do have an equalization referendum

00:11:09.060 coming up. I mean, it's more almost a poll in Albertans and it unfortunately might be politicized

00:11:14.580 to a point where it might not be an accurate reflection of where we are sitting on equalization.

00:11:18.180 Are you guys speaking to that referendum at all?

00:11:19.860 Well, I don't know that we want to speak directly to that referendum. I'm not aware of any plans that

00:11:26.500 we have to do that, but we are planning on doing town halls and I'm sure that the topic will be raised.

00:11:35.780 And my vote, I think when it comes to that referendum will be cast obviously in one direction.

00:11:43.060 And I am worried that it's going to be politicized. As you say, it'll be

00:11:47.940 maybe co-opted and used as a referendum on our provincial leadership. And that would be too bad,

00:11:55.460 I think. And it wouldn't be an accurate reflection of what Albertans truly think. And look,

00:12:00.340 I mean, the problem we're running up against here is after the previous federal election,

00:12:08.740 everyone in Alberta was very motivated by these sorts of issues when Trudeau was elected for the

00:12:14.100 second time. I mean, there was a good week and a half, two weeks, maybe a month even.

00:12:20.660 Cessation was the topic on everyone's minds, right? At this time, it's a little bit different

00:12:26.820 because we're dealing with a pandemic and the issues are very serious that we're dealing with

00:12:31.060 now. And we don't want this to get lost in the shuffle. And we would like to think that this issue

00:12:37.220 is important and it transcends that sort of political play that's going on related to the

00:12:43.300 pandemic or any sort of political play related to the referendum coming up in the fall. These issues

00:12:49.780 are intergenerational issues that need to be dealt with. And this is the first time that I can think

00:12:56.420 of, I might be wrong about this, the first time in my memory and to my knowledge where a plan this

00:13:02.500 concrete has been developed, where a step-by-step process has been provided to a provincial government

00:13:10.420 to carve out more autonomy for itself within the province. In this way, it's similar to the

00:13:16.180 firewall letter that Stephen Harper was a signatory on, but that was still just more of a dream. Like,

00:13:24.020 if we do this and this and this, things might be better. Here, if you go to our website,

00:13:31.220 freealbertastrategy.com, you can download the paper, you can sign a petition and you can see for yourself

00:13:40.420 the plan is very concrete. Now, again, it may change and it may have to be adapted, but this is what

00:13:49.220 it may take to have Ottawa finally take us seriously after four generations of ignoring us.

00:13:56.420 Well, there are certainly issues that are very near and dear to my personal heart on this. So,

00:14:01.060 freealbertastrategy.com is where you'll be able to see where the upcoming town hall meetings are and

00:14:05.620 where people, as you said, they can petition and find more information on what's happening.

00:14:08.820 Well, as we, as we figure that out, you can understand there's some logistical problems

00:14:15.540 related to the health restrictions currently in place, but we're working on that and getting the

00:14:21.620 ball rolling on the town halls. And you can sign up on the website. You'll get emails from us.

00:14:28.420 You'll find, you'll be made aware of any upcoming events and developments as they happen.

00:14:33.700 Great. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops. And thanks for joining me today,

00:14:38.420 Derek. We'll check in and see how it's been going in a little while.

00:14:41.380 Okay. Thank you very much for this opportunity.

Western Standard - September 29, 2021

The Cory Morgan Show： The Free Alberta Strategy

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