Western Standard - THE PIPELINE： Alberta independence gets messy

00:00:00.000 good evening it's july 15th my name is cory morgan i'm a senior columnist of the western

00:00:29.440 standard and you're watching the pipeline you can see the host this week is less bearded and

00:00:34.960 prettier than the one you're used to looking at mr phil de brant is on a vacation for the time

00:00:39.520 being so we've got me hosting it today and talking to a couple of our usual suspects on this uh

00:00:47.040 broadcast i'll start on the end there with our news editor dave naylor good to see you good to

00:00:51.200 see you and i'm stealing you from an important match oh yeah come on let's talk and let's get

00:00:55.520 let's get this going doesn't make that clock go any faster no i know i know going we will cover

00:00:59.840 those subjects and i hope you are not too distracted no and our former opinion editor

00:01:04.720 and still constant contributor of great content uh nigel hannaford i would be opinion editor

00:01:10.480 emeritus yes yes that sounds so much more elegant it gives it a means forever doesn't it no it means

00:01:17.040 once he was a has-been oh yeah it's a nicer way to say it does sound a little better and it likes

00:01:23.120 One of the best things I've heard before when people say that is better a has-been than a never was.

00:01:28.120 Oh, true.

00:01:28.780 Sound true.

00:01:29.480 All right.

00:01:29.760 So we got a few things to cover.

00:01:31.880 Issues, a couple in my wheelhouse, I guess you could say.

00:01:37.040 The independence debate is going on.

00:01:39.740 Maybe we'll start right into that.

00:01:41.700 A person who's been a leading figure and voice in the independence debate for some time is now dominating the news, but not in a good way.

00:01:48.460 What's happening, Dave?

00:01:49.540 uh no we're talking about uh jeff wrath he was a still is a leader i guess of the independence

00:01:56.100 party on on on one front he has been sued and had his assets frozen by the tall creek first nations

00:02:04.340 and it's all over a settlement that uh that i guess wrath negotiated uh that was to provide

00:02:10.580 money for for youngsters uh in the in the first nation and apparently there's some discussions

00:02:16.740 about what money was withheld and how it was withheld and all sorts of stuff like that.

00:02:22.740 So a judge has granted an account freezing, so they're actually doing further debate on it

00:02:32.500 as we speak in an Edmonton courtroom. So it's exactly the news the independence groups don't

00:02:38.660 really need. Well, that's why I sort of flagged it this morning. I thought, would this be happening

00:02:43.460 if he was not so prominently involved with the independence movement?

00:02:48.680 And I can't answer that, but it certainly was the first thing I thought of.

00:02:52.880 Well, some people have spoken on things such as that,

00:02:55.580 but it should be remembered, this is part of a combination.

00:02:58.320 These guys have been fighting this legal battle for a few years now.

00:03:01.080 Oh, really?

00:03:01.680 So, I mean, perhaps there's questioning on the timing

00:03:04.300 when the courts decided now is the time to pounce and act.

00:03:06.940 I don't know if that had anything to do with it,

00:03:10.820 but it's not solely because of any independence involvement because i think this whole thing

00:03:15.460 began before the all right yeah it's like it's it's pretty likely that it's only because it

00:03:21.460 involves jeff wrath that is it is uh uh getting so much uh so much news coverage i mean he's

00:03:27.860 he's certainly a volatile volatile subject that uh has ranted and raved a lot on uh on social

00:03:34.980 media. And, uh, yeah, I guess this is his enemies, uh, come up against him.

00:03:41.480 Nigel, you know, I guess from a strategic perspective, even if you know, you're not

00:03:45.800 necessarily part of the independence movement, but it's been an unusual campaign.

00:03:52.000 You know, when you've got a number of different groups, a number, there's no

00:03:54.440 particular centralized leader, uh, that's kind of saves you from being taken down

00:04:00.240 by one scandal, but it also means everybody kind of wears the actions of

00:04:03.600 everybody else how does the movement address this i mean part of it too is this is still to be proved

00:04:09.320 out in court i mean jeff rath may have done absolutely nothing wrong we'll see over time

00:04:13.840 but it's making the news and it still is a distraction and looks poorly how does the

00:04:19.020 movement cope with this well i think the movement is going to have to figure that out because there's

00:04:22.460 going to be a lot more dirty stuff uh coming at you you know like just this morning a national

00:04:29.220 Post carried a story about a fellow in Eastern Canada who was part of the healthcare lobby,

00:04:39.060 the people who represent the doctors and nurses and just don't want any change because they want

00:04:42.740 the money to keep coming. Friends of Medicare as well. At any rate, whatever. And he said,

00:04:49.060 Carney ought to just cut Alberta off from healthcare. That was your story. It's not going

00:04:57.140 to go anywhere because first of all i don't think mr carney would would do that uh it's not a it's

00:05:04.260 not a statesman like thing to do uh and secondly you can't change the law just like that either

00:05:09.700 if they do it they do it and they keep the health transfers coming but that's just one of the

00:05:14.900 mentality that i see taking root another one was uh judge leonard when she bumped the original

00:05:22.580 uh referendum if that ever goes to appeal we won't know the result for months but meanwhile

00:05:32.900 that couldn't that question couldn't be put so premier came up with a clever workaround and

00:05:38.820 we're doing that instead but you know there are people out there who are taking the federalist

00:05:45.060 side who are now going to see what they can do to derail the independence movement.

00:05:52.260 Because of the 250-year events of the last few weeks, I've been a little more aware of

00:05:59.620 what was going on in the 13 colonies 250 years ago. I can't tell you, that's the same kind of 0.80

00:06:06.260 thing that was going on, except people were getting tarred and feathers. You might want to watch out.

00:06:09.700 and you know

00:06:12.040 run out of town

00:06:13.740 and so forth and so on

00:06:15.780 so I have the feeling that we're in for

00:06:17.920 there'll be lots to

00:06:19.980 report on

00:06:20.640 Chris Holcourt has a good

00:06:24.160 column out at the moment

00:06:25.840 talking about that

00:06:27.800 exact thing that this group wants

00:06:30.060 Alberta Healthcare stopped

00:06:32.080 by Kearney and Chris

00:06:34.020 makes it okay well if they stop healthcare payments

00:06:36.040 we'll just stop equalizing Asian payments 0.87

00:06:38.100 Yeah. We'll see who wins that. I think procedurally it's easier for them to stop the health care payments than for us to. 1.00

00:06:44.100 Yeah, because we don't transfer out.

00:06:45.100 It's not like we write a check or anything. But anyway, good for Chris.

00:06:49.100 But that's not unprecedented too. I mean, for those who remember the first Bill 11 with Ralph Klein and prior to that,

00:06:56.100 when he tried having some doctor's fees imposed on people to visit doctors, they cut our transfer payments at that time too.

00:07:04.100 too. And Chrétien threatened to do so, and that's part of why, do so more, and that's part of why

00:07:08.740 Klein backed off. So they could use that as a threat, and we could see something, if they follow

00:07:14.420 the same rule book that Chrétien successfully used. Yeah, and sorry, Chris says it also helps

00:07:19.860 the independence movement, because they can see how petty the little Wrenchians are, who are going 0.99

00:07:24.740 to take their health care. Yeah, that would, no, the way I remember that 25 years ago was with 0.99

00:07:30.420 Rolf Klein was that he recognized that the problem was that a lot of people would show up at emergency

00:07:39.300 when they actually had plenty of time to take care of it during all business hours at their

00:07:43.780 own doctor. How do you start people doing that? Well, I think he had $10 in mind for a fee,

00:07:49.300 which was not exorbitant at all. Anyway, the Liberals wanted to make a point that they were

00:07:57.300 there for the average canadian and oh no you can't do that we'll cut your cut your transfer payments

00:08:03.940 off now why he then went further and brought in bill 11 to absolutely bar anybody having a private

00:08:10.900 hospital in alberta always struck me as a bridge too far you know he would have been much better

00:08:16.740 to have everybody get as many private hospitals as you can and put the job out to bed you know

00:08:23.060 whatever the job is but anyway he didn't do that unfortunately now we're stuck with it well that's

00:08:28.100 it that's the federal hammer over our heads i looked at it recently just because it was it's

00:08:31.620 a recent story and then the amount that chretchen clawed back was almost token it was like 3.6

00:08:35.380 million dollars but it really still was part of what we were entitled to and he took it away

00:08:40.660 incline's first incarnation of bill 11 was actually to expand some private options but he

00:08:45.620 backed down on that one that's one of the things he said is a policy regret later but there was

00:08:50.100 that threat of having those transfers if people studied a bit of that too as chris said too this

00:08:54.340 might increase the independence movement they understand we we're stuck with providing the

00:08:59.540 care provincially but they tell us how we must do it and they'll punish us with our our holding our

00:09:04.900 own money back if we don't well you know corey if you let me just promote my own show for tomorrow

00:09:09.700 night here for a moment i had a really interesting guest he's um a utilities economist and he was

00:09:17.060 commenting on a paper that the federal government had put out as an intention to proceed. What it

00:09:23.060 called for was a new way of handling power transmission within Canada. They started with

00:09:30.740 the premise that there was too much north-south and not enough east-west. Therefore, we need to

00:09:36.900 do things differently. Well, I tell you, right now, what emerged from that interview was just how

00:09:42.660 independent alberta was in the matter of generation and of power and moving it forward if this was

00:09:50.420 not already in place this is what the independence movement would be recommending so i have to wonder

00:09:56.820 whether mr mr carney had that in the back of his mind when uh he authorized the release of this

00:10:02.900 paper or whether it's just genuinely uh you know the the the specialists in the back rooms having

00:10:09.140 their way anyway tomorrow at seven o'clock tune in yeah i mean it's it's you know healthcare in

00:10:16.100 general everybody knows it's not working everybody knows you know you've seen the the wait with

00:10:21.460 doctors waiting lists the lineups at the er you know a year and a half to get a get a surgery

00:10:27.460 healthcare is not working so at least the smith government is trying something which is bill 11

00:10:31.940 and you know allowing doctors to to bill in both the public and private sectors and you know the

00:10:37.860 the left wing just loses their collective minds over it.

00:10:41.260 Why not give it a go?

00:10:42.900 I mean, it's better than the status quo.

00:10:45.320 Well, you see, you're speaking like a customer,

00:10:47.060 not a patient.

00:10:48.920 Well, I was a patient this way.

00:10:50.820 Well, I tell you, this is, you know,

00:10:52.960 you want the ability to get treatment when you want it,

00:10:56.100 but those guys have the system in their hands

00:11:01.180 and it works for them.

00:11:03.620 so they're the ones that you'll never convince them otherwise so frankly the if anything is

00:11:10.900 going to change it's going to have to be because people like premier smith think it needs to change

00:11:15.700 and get it done that's good that's uh there's a kind of a i have friends who are doctors and

00:11:22.980 nurses and so on so i have to be a bit careful how i phrase this otherwise i'll hear about it later

00:11:27.940 but you know the the system certainly works well for the people who are paid by the hour yeah and

00:11:35.860 it's not it's not the doctors and the nurses and the physiotherapists it's the executives

00:11:41.700 the bureaucracy that's from there's some of the other end too though i mean i can't remember the

00:11:45.700 name of the group it was canadians for democratic health care something like that they're the ones

00:11:49.780 really making the noise pressuring carney saying he's got to cut and stop premier smith in her

00:11:53.220 tracks and i looked into who all the funders of it are public service union public service union

00:11:58.180 public service it's the unions and that they've got a stranglehold on the care well so much you

00:12:04.100 know so many of those contracts are loaded with things that don't sound like much when you write

00:12:08.980 them out but they actually add up to a lot of money so so you book off shift and they call you

00:12:13.460 you know mr smith is having convulsions what did you give him you know uh if they take that phone

00:12:19.140 call it may take two minutes but they get to charge a lot of time for it and those kinds of

00:12:24.900 restrictive practices really boost the um boost the wage bill in the public clearance sector

00:12:31.060 well there's been some other things they don't like discussed if we tried to reform some things

00:12:34.580 if we had a private hospital for example i bet you private managers wouldn't put up with a nurse

00:12:38.900 pulling in 500 000 a year by gaming the overtime system as they do when they choose shift swapping 0.96

00:12:44.900 and a whole number of other things that are built into those union contracts where suddenly they're

00:12:48.580 making six, eight times regular salary and they still qualify as part time. There's a lot of

00:12:57.700 stuff that gets exposed and then of course the unions freak out and then the government backs

00:13:00.980 off and they're too afraid to talk about it. But a private institution would look at that at the

00:13:05.300 dollars and cents and say, well, no, we're just going to hire another nurse. We're not going to 0.95

00:13:09.940 let you do that. But they would say good luck finding one. That's the other problem. That's

00:13:15.460 That's the other difficulty, isn't it?

00:13:17.360 With competition, actually, it's surprising what can happen, but we'll see.

00:13:22.020 I mean, so it's another flashpoint potentially in the independence thing.

00:13:24.900 As I said, we've got these distractions and it's going to get uglier.

00:13:27.520 It's going to get dirtier.

00:13:28.320 I mean, yeah, you know, Jeff Rath has this, Dennis Moldry has been in some legal soup,

00:13:32.380 unfortunately with his own family thing that went out, which typically these things,

00:13:36.280 we wouldn't hear a lot of news of it, except that they're involved in the independence

00:13:39.400 movement, I think the pathways for independence guy blew up a public washroom 1.00

00:13:42.860 unapologetically in 1991 after a bender on draft at the spotlight club in calgary just preemptively 1.00

00:13:48.620 getting that out there in case it gets released now um sorry say that again what's that you remember

00:13:53.320 the spotlight club i remember the spotlight that was a vile place that was yes cheap draft though

00:13:57.960 oh i don't know some guy who's leading the pathway to independence group these days so

00:14:01.820 it was a tragic thing but you know just these scandals might emerge from somebody's

00:14:05.700 past as this campaign gets going further so they're digging up you right now who knows that's

00:14:10.880 the only one I can think of that might, you know, might show some, some bad principle on my part.

00:14:15.560 I probably should have cleaned up after myself or something, but I was, you know, give me a break.

00:14:19.680 I was 20 years old and it had a lot of draft. If I remember correctly, the spotlight draft

00:14:25.460 wasn't very good. No, it was warm and flat, but it was only four bucks a jug or something like that.

00:14:30.220 But, you know, I mean, it took more to get the effect. You couldn't pass up on a scene with

00:14:33.980 Mitzi Dupuis and some of the talented folks who used to tour back. No, but we're going to.

00:14:39.160 Kong at its finest. Oh, yes. An ugly sidetrack. Yes. Derek's out of the house and he's put the

00:14:45.860 tasteless man in charge of the microphone. So these things are going to come up. All right.

00:14:49.740 Well, we'll see what unfolds with all of that anyways, with Mr. Rath and see what happens. I

00:14:54.520 mean, I guess just to follow a bit, I mean, Keith Wilson's really kind of emerging though, as

00:14:58.380 the voice of this at this point, uh, and increasingly so I think maybe the movement's

00:15:04.000 going to coalesce a little more around him as well. Even if some people still think highly of

00:15:07.900 Mr. Rath, they just understand that if we can't focus on independence when all this other stuff's

00:15:12.860 going on. No, and you don't have time to really have a convention to get a leader. But after the

00:15:19.480 referendum, you do have time. Do you think that's something the independence groups will take on and

00:15:25.060 have a convention and select a leader? I don't know. I mean, I don't know how you do it because

00:15:30.140 we're in an unprecedented spot. With a party, it gives you a natural mechanism and a role and a

00:15:34.640 place. But with a bunch of disparate groups, how do you still crown a king, even if it's a

00:15:40.960 democratic means? We haven't been down this road before. You have to go back to the constitutional

00:15:51.760 textbooks and just look at who else. I mean, how did they do it in 1776? They had their revolution

00:15:58.880 first in the Constitutional Convention second, as I seem to recall.

00:16:03.920 Yeah. Well, if we were going down that road, presumably to an actual Clarity Act compliant

00:16:09.120 referendum, and there was a yes vote, you know, we still a good few steps away from there, then

00:16:14.400 theoretically, yes, some sort of constitutional convention would have to be held and somebody

00:16:18.000 would be picked. But how does this movement deal with this right now? You know, even if they get,

00:16:23.600 say, 60% on that word salad of a question that's coming, it's not binding for anything.

00:16:28.400 it will move the gears for and obviously this issue won't be going away we'll have more happening but

00:16:33.600 how will they centralize their messaging frankly there you know you do actually have to go back to

00:16:38.720 the books that chart the progress of revolutions i'm thinking of crane's book it was written before

00:16:46.480 the war but he analyzed how movements like the french revolution like the like the american

00:16:54.480 revolution like the civil wars in england how the russian revolution came about and unfortunately

00:17:03.840 what always seemed to happen would there would be a strong group and there would be a more moderate

00:17:08.560 group and they would join together and then there would be a purge of the weaker groups afterwards

00:17:17.200 it would be i'm not recommending this i'm just saying that historically that's what tends to

00:17:22.960 happen yeah and but you won't even get a chance to form a government and do any purging unless you

00:17:30.320 first seize the initiative and get yourself elected that's what it'll take somebody's going

00:17:37.920 to have to shake hands and say well until we get through the the next election we're going to work

00:17:42.640 together sort it out later well we'll see what happens yes well so another uh story popping up uh

00:17:50.560 it says a lot too.

00:17:53.580 Alberta's prospering despite Canada.

00:17:55.640 Not because of it, I think.

00:17:56.800 I think most Albertans realize that and feel that way.

00:17:59.360 The jobs report was pretty interesting.

00:18:01.340 So Alberta created eight out of ten of the new jobs across Canada in the past year.

00:18:08.560 And that's even so, I mean, Ottawa has that ability to keep creating those civil service jobs.

00:18:12.820 That's part of how Trudeau managed to always pad the numbers.

00:18:15.500 Even despite that sort of thing, though Carney, I think,

00:18:18.140 hasn't been as aggressive in hiring civil service.

00:18:20.720 No, it's kind of getting rid of them.

00:18:23.120 But 8 in 10 in a province that only makes up 12% of the country.

00:18:27.480 These are private sector jobs.

00:18:28.640 Yes, these are good jobs.

00:18:30.500 I got the numbers.

00:18:31.820 I got the numbers.

00:18:32.840 So we only have 12% of the country, but we make 80% of the jobs.

00:18:39.840 Full-time jobs, 59,000.

00:18:42.440 And these are good paying jobs.

00:18:44.720 And 55,000 of them were in the healthcare sector.

00:18:48.140 Wow. So that's the hiring of the nurses and all that sort of good stuff. So compared, Ontario only created 65,000 jobs. And all the people are saying, you know, it's basically everybody's flocking to Alberta because they can get jobs with good pay and the cost of living here, buying a house, all that sort of good stuff is way cheaper than in Vancouver or Toronto.

00:19:13.360 So it certainly puts yet another damper on the chicken littles in the sky that said this referendum question would force investment away from Alberta.

00:19:27.680 It's not done that.

00:19:28.660 We have the $13 billion data center from Zuckerberg that Corey is getting all this hate mail from.

00:19:37.260 So, no, Alberta is booming.

00:19:39.560 Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually been booming for a very long time. It's just that we never got the credit for it. But now, of course, with the Eastern manufacturing, it's too bad. They're getting walled by the American attitude to bringing production back into the United States.

00:19:59.620 so the auto industry is reeling and the steel industry is reeling and all these projects are

00:20:06.660 going into the major projects office but none of them are coming out so there's not much hope to

00:20:12.420 be had in eastern canada at the moment i think people hear that song about albert abandon they

00:20:18.660 decide there's better things to available out here and sure enough especially if you've got a

00:20:24.580 degree in nursing, your doors are open for you. That's the only thing that discourages me a little

00:20:30.980 about those numbers. I mean, great, we need the healthcare professionals. We're just talking

00:20:35.700 about that. But I would personally be happier if it was people who were in the energy sector or

00:20:46.820 perhaps doing something with AI. Value-added industries.

00:20:50.020 We all need nurses, but at the end, it's a cost, not a cost.

00:20:56.500 It's very good news, I think, for the Smith government, too, though, particularly the healthcare ones, though, in that sense that the doomsayers, as she's brought in policies, and she's been fighting with the unions, the teachers' union, you know, putting them back to work, and there's always, you know, crabbiness with the nurses' union, and they've always said the NDP, all these professionals are going to flee Alberta, you're not going to be able to get any nurses, you're not going to be able to get any teachers, you're not.

00:21:18.540 And they never actually flee.

00:21:20.580 You know, just in passing, Corey, I am absolutely flabbergasted by the relentless propaganda

00:21:26.900 paid for by the health and education uniforms that's blasting out of the radio every day.

00:21:32.620 It never stops.

00:21:35.380 And yet, they're coming here in droves to take well-paid work in Alberta.

00:21:42.040 Do they not get the memos from the union office?

00:21:45.880 You can sell your house in Toronto and buy us something similar here and bank half your

00:21:51.020 money.

00:21:52.020 All right.

00:21:53.020 I mean, that seems like a no brainer.

00:21:54.020 Well, it says something about those unions too, though, and that, I mean, it's true.

00:21:57.500 You can't turn on the radio without hearing another one of those healthcare or education

00:22:01.500 union guys going, but the teachers union with their short lived strike, didn't have any

00:22:07.500 strike pay because it turns out all the money they'd been paying into their union for decades,

00:22:11.360 the union has been pissing it away and never actually set it aside for a time like that

00:22:15.200 when they need it that's where it's going they're blowing it out on these ads that are failing yes

00:22:21.760 i can give you guys some advice podcasts you don't have to listen to commercial radio oh

00:22:28.240 i'm familiar with those yeah you've done one or two yourself yeah nobody will buy ads online so

00:22:33.680 you don't have to get it is that because you blew up the strippers bathroom it wasn't the strippers

00:22:38.240 bathroom it was just a public washroom it was terrible either way uh thank you less said about

00:22:43.680 that it was the days before having everybody having a camera so it was i i do blame that i

00:22:48.400 think there was some sort of poison in that jug of draft came other than ping pong ball

00:22:56.720 nurses had to treat my gastric issues later bless them all anyway all the rocks rocks

00:23:03.520 walking and roll do we have room for all these people in the schools or bulging you know housing

00:23:10.320 starts i believe i'm just going off of memory i think they've been shooting up very well

00:23:16.880 so does this now i mean tying it into the prior discussion though does this undercut the

00:23:22.800 independence uh case a little bit i mean it's kind of saying well you know what alberta can still

00:23:28.880 manage to keep its industries going i mean it's like i said at the start i feel alberta's

00:23:32.480 prospering despite ottawa but maybe some people are satisfied even if it's despite auto as long

00:23:38.080 as the prospering is happening well there would be room for some uh you know to do a good streeter

00:23:44.800 with uh going around asking people are you new to alberta how do you feel about because i have

00:23:52.480 a feeling hopefully i have not done the street or i have not asked the question but i have a

00:23:58.000 sense that people who just moved in from toronto probably don't have that sense of alberta pride

00:24:05.280 that people who have lived here for generations and feel aggrieved at the attitude of the federal

00:24:13.120 government often bear with them. I mean, there's a reason why we think the way we do, but if you've

00:24:19.200 just moved in from out of town, you probably haven't had time to pick up on that vibe.

00:24:23.120 No, and I think you're probably going to vote to stay, because you're not going to

00:24:27.200 give everything up in Toronto, move here, and then, what, we're going to be a separate country?

00:24:31.520 i mean that was a difficult one too you never know i mean a lot of people moved here to escape

00:24:35.840 though what they felt was going on government wise and they don't want to see it creeping in

00:24:39.040 here i i have met i mean it's anecdotal so i don't know how much it means in the numbers in general

00:24:44.000 but a fair number actually people have moved here for that express purpose just said well

00:24:47.360 it's the last bastion of conservatism uh i want to move here and save what little i can from what

00:24:53.760 seems to be creeping in everywhere else and i'm going to support it some of the worst i've seen

00:24:57.920 have been long established Albertans professors others you know well I got my mortgage paid off

00:25:03.600 I've got my pension I don't want to rock the boat right now but the young ambitious ones who are

00:25:07.760 moving and traveling they're a little more I think flexible anyways maybe but I mean I'm just guessing

00:25:14.560 from who I meet I mean only select people though yes your audiences are a bit biased yes the rooms

00:25:22.720 could be a little slanted well I mean I do meet people on the other side they come out but usually

00:25:26.240 they're hollering at me until we get security to have them removed so it's a polarizing time

00:25:31.760 how's the book sales coming very good yeah i've sold out again are you really how many copies

00:25:36.320 is that now i don't know what the you know what the updated sovereignty sandbook if you give me

00:25:41.600 an opportunity for a plug i don't manage the online sales of it so i don't see those stats

00:25:48.240 quite yet but uh the the sales in person as i go to events and selling them i've sold a couple

00:25:53.920 hundred already just you know the sorentist's handbook yes the updated one apparently apparently

00:26:00.240 he still hasn't earned enough to wear a tie oh i forgot that jeez i i it's sort of the aftermath

00:26:06.960 of stampede well this was part of the hurry too i mean this was a this was a no huddle uh uh you

00:26:12.560 know take off here right from my show to this show because you have an important event i have an

00:26:17.280 important event i'm trying to get there and you know derek's not derek's in germany so yeah we

00:26:21.920 we know he won't watch a show. Well he never watches the show when he's here. Well this will

00:26:26.780 be the time that he does. Oh well. One time because he's jet lagged and awake in Munich.

00:26:33.800 Well interesting. Let's look into the federal front again. This is a beauty.

00:26:39.200 You put that in there. Carney's choice of a chief operating officer. I mean that's a new office in

00:26:43.220 the prime minister's office. Yeah it is. And so much for elbows up apparently I guess he couldn't

00:26:49.580 find anybody within Canada who qualified for the role.

00:26:51.980 I know. This is a really weird story. For the benefit of listeners who might not be aware,

00:26:59.020 I did have six years in Ottawa working in the prime minister's office. I'm fairly aware of

00:27:04.620 the way the office is structured. This is a complete outlier in terms of it. I've been

00:27:11.980 checking around with some of my old colleagues to see if they've heard of anything like it.

00:27:16.460 And the short answer is no.

00:27:20.880 This is not some other position renamed.

00:27:26.080 It is a new position.

00:27:27.520 It is a position that Carney obviously wants for his purposes that he's figured out.

00:27:35.540 You have the prime minister, you have the cabinet, you have the prime minister's office.

00:27:39.940 uh political appointees who who try to give the try to give instruction to the rest of the federal

00:27:47.460 government the civil service chosen for their point of view so you have a chief of staff

00:27:52.740 the chief of staff does all the unpleasant work that the prime minister shouldn't have to do like

00:27:59.700 fire people and hire people and then you've got the there's a whole policy as a side of it as well

00:28:07.300 that gets shared out between the deputy chief of staff and the the principal secretary so everything

00:28:14.820 to do with executive action and policy development is already figured out in those three people now

00:28:20.580 we have a fourth one courtesy of uh of mr carney he described the appointment is described as being

00:28:28.740 the chief operating officer well you know the all of those functions that are wrapped up in the

00:28:36.580 in a chief operating officer's job in a private company are actually taken care of by the three

00:28:42.340 individuals you mentioned before the chief of staff the deputy chief of staff the principal

00:28:45.860 secretary so quite what this person's unique uh lane to run in is going to be i i've not figured

00:28:53.540 that out yet and none of the people that i spoke to have figured it out either they're all scratching

00:28:59.140 their heads. The only thing that I can think of that makes any sense is that this woman is a 0.99

00:29:07.580 Democrat. She knows a lot of the people in Washington who would be valuable for Mr. Carney

00:29:16.380 to know. And if she is a Democrat and served under Mr. Biden, she'd have a pretty good idea

00:29:22.560 of what the ways that particular part of the United States thinks

00:29:27.520 and where the weak points may be.

00:29:30.360 So perhaps it is, they had to call her something.

00:29:34.640 I can't see her interfering with the mechanics of government, 0.98

00:29:39.300 but she will provide intelligence from the Washington swamp

00:29:45.820 that might be helpful to Mr. Carney.

00:29:48.320 But this, Corey, Dave, is me in my nice mode trying to put the most positive spin on something that is completely outrageous.

00:29:59.940 But you did say intelligence and Ottawa in the same sentence.

00:30:03.960 Sometimes that doesn't quite work.

00:30:07.100 This new CAO has a democratic history, as you know, worked for Hillary Clinton in her election campaign in 2016.

00:30:16.180 Really, was that 10 years ago already?

00:30:18.020 and has also been involved with the Democratic Mayor,

00:30:22.940 former Democratic Mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg.

00:30:26.780 So not really a record of success.

00:30:28.540 No, no, no, it hasn't backed a winner yet.

00:30:32.060 And she's apparently already been fined by the Ethics Commissioner,

00:30:37.260 $250 fine for not giving up the details of her portfolio quick enough.

00:30:44.040 So already she's tired and she really has to start at the job. 0.99

00:30:47.620 I mean, give her a little slack. They don't have ethics commissioners in Washington. They 0.99

00:30:53.540 may have Senate committees to investigate, but this is like, who is an ethics commissioner?

00:30:59.620 Who is this? Well, $250 later, now you know. Well, you think somebody might have told her

00:31:06.740 that she had to fill out the form? I don't know. Remember you said intelligence in Ottawa

00:31:13.300 in the same sentence. They could have asked Gerald Butts to come back. Oh no, I don't even think

00:31:20.260 Mark Carney would touch that. You know, I just don't see the value and the tactics of this. I

00:31:26.580 mean, you laid out part of the value this person could provide, fair enough. You know, you need

00:31:30.180 somebody who knows some of the names and faces and people to talk to, but he should also be

00:31:34.660 keenly aware that he's dealing with an orange tinted, hypersensitive madman and trying to make

00:31:40.580 make trade deals with and to take a prominent Democrat operative and stick it into his office, 0.72

00:31:47.100 no less, is not going to make his job any easier in dealing with President Trump, who really

00:31:53.160 doesn't take anything lightly or well. You know, you could get the value of this person

00:31:58.700 in many, many positions. It's easy enough for the prime minister's office. You make a budget,

00:32:02.740 you create a role and you can put them there without it being so prominent as being one of

00:32:06.620 or full out inner circle people, I mean, was this a purposeful signal in doing this or

00:32:13.040 is it just poor diplomatic instincts?

00:32:15.980 You look, last week we had to back down on the Gordie Howe bridge stuff.

00:32:21.620 We were supposed to get all the tolls.

00:32:23.500 We built that bridge and now Carney's capitulated and Trump's going to get another, Trump's

00:32:29.000 going to get half of it.

00:32:30.480 So all he seems to be doing is capitulating.

00:32:32.860 I think it's the state of Michigan that gets half the tolls, isn't it?

00:32:36.700 Is it?

00:32:37.700 Oh, yeah.

00:32:38.700 In any case.

00:32:39.700 In an American.

00:32:40.700 And, you know, it was blocked by Trump people and Trump says he's now happy with the deal.

00:32:46.240 So at least he's not going to bomb Windsor.

00:32:48.620 Well, not yet.

00:32:49.620 Give it an hour.

00:32:51.620 I mean, the other part too, of course, it undercuts the entire basis of how Carney

00:32:56.720 even got himself elected.

00:32:58.000 This whole campaign was elbows up, all Canada, all the time, higher from within, don't feed 0.99

00:33:03.460 those dirty Americans. 0.99

00:33:05.180 Apparently out of 40 million Canadians, she was the only one qualified for that position 1.00

00:33:09.320 though somehow.

00:33:12.580 As I say, the astonishment of my erstwhile colleagues and what this person was supposed

00:33:18.520 to do was the signal that this is something a bit different.

00:33:21.940 and it's not the first time that the liberals have actually employed American expertise.

00:33:28.400 I think they had Frank Luntz up, this must be 10 years ago now,

00:33:32.180 but, you know, a mercenary, an advisor for hire.

00:33:37.500 He would have been just as happy to advise the conservatives,

00:33:40.500 but the liberals got to him first and had more money, so he worked for them.

00:33:45.580 So the idea of bringing in the people on the American left

00:33:49.860 to advise the Liberal Party. It's not a new one. This is not the first time it's happened.

00:33:56.340 But I am surprised that Mr. Carney, in the circumstances, would have chosen that person

00:34:04.220 at this time. Maybe she knows something about somebody down there that's going to be helpful.

00:34:09.100 You never know.

00:34:10.100 Have either of you seen a salary for her?

00:34:12.360 No.

00:34:13.360 No.

00:34:14.360 However, that'll be interesting.

00:34:15.360 Well, it will be interesting, but it probably wasn't the clincher deal for her.

00:34:21.280 Everybody thinks that senior politicos make a lot of money, but not compared to what they're

00:34:26.860 capable of making elsewhere if they're capable of doing that job at all.

00:34:30.460 So I would be pitching her salary in the $200,000 to $250,000 range.

00:34:34.740 Well, Carney's appointment of the defense procurement guy, he's making $700,000.

00:34:39.960 He's making way more than Carney.

00:34:42.040 But he's not within the prime minister's office.

00:34:44.480 He's working for a hands-off organization, so if she is a staffer and covered by the

00:34:53.420 civil service grade system, then it only takes you so far up the ladder.

00:34:59.720 Don't worry, she'll be okay.

00:35:00.720 It'll be enough to rent an apartment.

00:35:01.720 She's not starving.

00:35:02.720 She can pay those $250 fines. 0.99

00:35:04.720 Oh, that's a pretty low bar to get with there.

00:35:09.980 Well, you know, we've got some time.

00:35:12.240 We've been moving along.

00:35:13.240 also hit on anyways of federal policy, go off script, make you work impulsively.

00:35:19.000 The assembly of first nations is one of Canada's favorite lobby groups that we

00:35:22.600 all get to pay for.

00:35:24.100 Uh, they're having their big annual shindig this week.

00:35:27.100 Uh, you know, so just a complaint fast as usual.

00:35:29.620 They've, I don't think they've ever actually liked anything when they've

00:35:32.020 gotten together, but I guess they have just today unanimously resolved to

00:35:37.360 oppose Kearney's proposed reforms and streamlining major project approvals.

00:35:43.860 So they're basically saying we're going to oppose anything and everything you

00:35:47.880 put forward in this major project notion that you've got, what are you going to

00:35:53.040 do about it?

00:35:54.460 Is Kearney's going to have to take a stance with these guys?

00:35:56.800 Yeah, he is.

00:35:57.440 But once my understanding is once it's passed the major project's office

00:36:01.620 and gotten approval, what the natives say doesn't matter. 0.78

00:36:05.620 But they're still going to blockade and block trains and disrupt highway travel.

00:36:13.300 But yeah, as you said, somebody's got to put their foot down.

00:36:16.900 Yeah.

00:36:17.140 I mean, where do we go with this?

00:36:19.700 You know, this is something I wrote a column on, I dug deeply into before a while back.

00:36:24.660 I mean, this is Supreme Court affirmed, but you never hear it out of Kearney.

00:36:28.580 That's what we need.

00:36:29.060 We need leadership out of that man to point this out.

00:36:32.100 It's gone to court many, many times.

00:36:34.260 The consultation thing they've won on a number of times in court, and every ruling also makes it clear, though, that they do not have veto authority.

00:36:41.400 They've never had veto authority.

00:36:43.880 And Carney's been giving them de facto veto authority.

00:36:46.360 So what does he expect when they get together and say, we're not going to approve anything?

00:36:50.460 Because he already said with the pipeline from Alberta a while back, he said that will only happen with First Nations consent, not consultation.

00:36:58.620 He's going to have to pick a lane.

00:36:59.800 I've often wondered whether he regretted saying that.

00:37:04.360 It probably rolled off the lips fairly easily at the time, but having consultation and giving

00:37:11.560 consent is not the same thing. Of course, the indigenous people have got a right to be consulted.

00:37:20.360 That much we have conceded in several significant court decisions over the last 30 years. It's not 1.00

00:37:25.800 a matter of you know we're dealing with moralities here this is the this is the law they have won the

00:37:30.680 right to be consulted however nobody has in court in the court system has conceded the right uh that

00:37:39.160 even with undrip the united nations declaration on the rights of indigenous people even when that

00:37:44.680 was brought in even when bc brought it in itself so that just in case nobody else in canada got

00:37:51.560 it bc was pure of heart in in this in its approach to indigenous people even that didn't give that

00:37:58.360 right to only the right to be consulted so it is a fair it ought to be an easy thing for mr

00:38:08.360 carney to say look we listened to you for long enough now stand back because the bulldozers are 0.93

00:38:13.240 coming through uh that he also has this advantage that of all the indigenous groups

00:38:23.320 that you could be up against the assembly of first nations is the one you would pick because the afn

00:38:34.200 how can i say this delicately because i don't want to be

00:38:39.560 sued like some of my colleagues get sued when they you know mns trial dates at the end of august

00:38:45.880 you know here's the deal if they if they're getting some money and they just drop the check

00:38:51.320 off of the afn office you can rely on the afn to see that it's close to the right place it's it's

00:38:58.840 It's colonial in its way.

00:39:03.260 So I don't get the impression that the average indigenous person on the reserve boiling his

00:39:11.760 water thinks too highly of the AFN because they are not living on the reserve.

00:39:19.540 They are indecent.

00:39:21.140 It's like when we were talking about the proposed west-east pipeline that has to go

00:39:26.220 through manitoba and they've got a uh indigenous premier who doesn't like the idea and and you know 0.96

00:39:33.900 will oppose it and he's got the whatever first nations they are they're a little poser all you

00:39:39.900 need to do is back up a garbage truck full of money tip it in there and they'll be happening

00:39:44.060 on board well you know something else you could do and i know they won't you stop the money

00:39:48.940 you know what when they get a little hungry it's amazing how much more receptive

00:39:52.220 people come. I just, you know, said it online on X, not as a matter of, I know people, of course,

00:39:59.340 start with starving natives now, now, whatever. The Alberta Association of Assembly of First

00:40:06.380 Nations. People don't understand as well. I mean, media treats it as if it's some sort of established

00:40:10.940 level of government or something. It's just a lobby group, nothing else. That's all it is.

00:40:15.980 And it's fully funded by us taxpayers. There's no treaty anywhere that says we are obligated

00:40:22.140 to fund this gang of extortionists, and I'll say it that way.

00:40:27.520 You're starting to sound like that health care guy who said that Alberta's health care payments should be cut off.

00:40:33.000 What are you saying here?

00:40:35.960 I'm saying it sure gets attention, doesn't it?

00:40:38.620 But, I mean, you know, if they were to be a lobby group that represents Indigenous people on the ground,

00:40:42.760 they should be going to the reserves and rattling a cup and getting the funding from the people they purport to represent.

00:40:48.800 Why are we paying them money to oppose us?

00:40:51.300 And I'm giving money to these people to put me out of business.

00:40:56.040 And I think some people are getting tired of it.

00:40:58.000 I know it won't happen.

00:41:00.200 But unfortunately, as you said, the way it does work is, yes, there'll be some deals negotiated and some more money will land in the right pockets and then things will get done.

00:41:10.360 But it's not a productive way to work forward.

00:41:12.600 I don't know if we'll ever see the political courage to actually deal with this, as I think we must.

00:41:18.000 Well, we must.

00:41:19.740 Well, I hate to give credit to anybody with the name of Trudeau,

00:41:22.440 but Pierre Trudeau at least had the foresight to recommend ending the reserve system.

00:41:30.060 His white paper was brilliant.

00:41:31.560 Yeah, it just never happened.

00:41:34.220 It was him and Chrétien, and they backed off.

00:41:36.560 Canada would be a completely different country today if they didn't have stood their ground on that.

00:41:40.400 And then his son took away the fact that First Nations had to report their expenses.

00:41:46.200 It was job one in the first week, I think.

00:41:49.100 yeah yeah well there's a difference anyways you know trudeau senior was a terrible socialist of

00:41:55.100 a man and authoritarian at least he was bright his offspring bouncing around like a pogo stick at

00:42:01.580 pop concerts now is man i just would have hoped he'd just vanish after leaving but we still have 0.74

00:42:06.940 to see him in our scroll and he probably needs a haircut if he's going to go flopping around like

00:42:11.580 that oh he needs a cut all right but whatever yes he's just have to deal with that in our history

00:42:18.220 okay he's getting their time i guess for the parting shots i'll start on the end and work my

00:42:21.820 way in dave what do you got today i just want to say it's uh the last month has been a great world

00:42:26.380 cup there's been stadiums full in uh in three countries in in america hasn't been any riding

00:42:33.660 no incidents uh and uh it's gone the only the only problem was donald trump interfering with

00:42:41.740 the build with the usa red card utterly despicable utterly uh it shows you the the depth of the

00:42:49.100 corruption of uh of uh fifa but uh you know well played to them for for the last month and uh

00:42:55.980 hopefully we'll have a good final on sunday between uh spain and england

00:43:02.460 streets of the spanish armada okay yes we sank them we we won the last round yes you're right

00:43:08.940 Look, the intriguing story there that we had about who pays taxes, and it turned out, according to the Fraser Institute, and one thing about the Fraser Institute, everybody understands they're a conservatively minded organization, but nobody has tripped them up on their numbers and on their research.

00:43:26.600 So I take this more or less as the literal truth that 20% of the people pay 60% of the taxes, which means that 80% of the people pay 40% of the taxes, which makes the whole system quite a lot more egalitarian.

00:43:43.380 That put me in mind of another statistic that I found years ago.

00:43:49.880 I went and looked it up, and it's still the same.

00:43:53.520 People at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale actually come out functionally without paying taxes at all.

00:44:02.080 about 40 percent of canadians who when you balance out what they receive from the government

00:44:10.240 in various subsidies against what they pay in taxes either in income tax or sales tax

00:44:17.200 they're even steven they actually don't contribute and they don't cost and so it's that 60 percent of

00:44:26.480 of everybody else who pays the freight for government it's a ugly are you one of the 40

00:44:33.520 or one of the 60. i don't pay a lot i'm not in the high end of the scale so i guess i can say i benefit

00:44:40.880 ah well okay well and i'll end on some of the people who do do quite well uh a toronto story

00:44:46.560 they'll win the standard with the ontario tourism culture and gaming minister stan cho

00:44:50.560 Cho, who has now agreed to reimburse taxpayers for more than $16,000 for hotels, stays in downtown Toronto over just the last three years.

00:44:59.720 He only lives six kilometers from the assembly, and he has access to a limousine or a tax-funded vehicle and driver if he wanted it.

00:45:08.580 Let's get real.

00:45:09.400 He wasn't using that room for sleeping.

00:45:11.300 I think it's Mrs. Cho who's got more questions than the taxpayers do on what he's been doing in that hotel all this time.

00:45:17.040 I was going to say the same thing.

00:45:20.560 as bad as a personal ethical thing that is with Mr. Cho as well,

00:45:26.340 but it just shows, again, where these politicians,

00:45:29.160 so many of them just lose all grasp of respect for the money of the people

00:45:34.880 that they're entrusted to.

00:45:35.920 Remember that phrase, I'm entitled to my entitlement?

00:45:37.840 Oh, yes, I do.

00:45:38.700 That was a civil servant, but yes.

00:45:41.680 He had billed for a 25-cent piece of chewing gum.

00:45:44.980 Was it Dingwall?

00:45:46.060 It was Dingwall, actually.

00:45:48.300 God.

00:45:48.880 Dingbar.

00:45:49.360 But at least he wasn't $16,000 in a hotel.

00:45:53.920 Well, hotel rooms are pretty expensive now, I guess.

00:45:56.640 Yeah, but you don't really need one if you live six.

00:45:59.720 You can stumble home.

00:46:00.940 Well, yeah, unless you needed some privacy for a moment.

00:46:04.880 You know, I guess he didn't like those ones that charge by the hour.

00:46:08.140 All right.

00:46:08.900 No, it was Jack Biden.

00:46:10.220 What are you thinking of now?

00:46:11.760 Yes.

00:46:13.700 Oh, how am I going to stop?

00:46:14.800 Okay, so that's it.

00:46:16.620 Dave, Nigel, thank you very much

00:46:18.740 for a good pipeline today, and

00:46:20.660 I'll let you get to the game. I won't see anything

00:46:22.360 from Leighton and his indiscretions

00:46:24.600 and particular taste he seems

00:46:26.660 to have in people. And I thank

00:46:28.700 all you guys for tuning in, and hey,

00:46:30.480 just a reminder, the way we pay those bills, it's

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00:46:46.120 And if you don't know how to interpret

00:46:47.760 that great news copy that Dave's given you,

00:46:50.120 you can read my columns.

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00:46:56.760 Thanks for tuning in today, guys,

00:46:57.860 and we will see you all again next week.

00:47:14.620 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - July 18, 2026

THE PIPELINE： Alberta independence gets messy

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