THE PIPELINE： Carney： A decision if necessary, but not necessarily a decision
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Summary
Western Standard Opinion Editor Nigel Hannaford retires for the second time, Erica Barudis gets gas, and federalists are scared of the Alberta flag. Plus, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney sets new conditions for a Palestinian state.
Transcript
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2025. I'm Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard. You're watching The Pipeline.
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I've got my usual crew of homies here, Western Standard opinion editor Nigel Hannaford,
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who is on his, he's got only two and a half days of work left until he is officially retired for
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the second time. Officially retired for the second time, yes. Drink it all in, the cup is running dry.
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But like every good former employee, he intends to be reincarnated, come back as a contractor,
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still doing work with us. You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen.
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And another former opinion editor who did the same, we've got Western Standard senior Alberta
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columnist Cory Morgan. It's hard to escape. It's actually a career track.
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I thought it's just because you love me. Yeah, it must be it. All right. And coming back to us
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after an absence of a few weeks, we missed her dearly. We've got Erica Barudis, who is apparently
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got gas. Okay, that's a weird thing for people. Look over your shoulder. I know, I understand what
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the sign behind me says. Yeah, I don't have gas. I'm in the presence of gas. All right, Erica,
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it was in the presence of gas. Yes. And what is my title, Derek? What do I do? I'm not doing it.
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I just gave up on it. It's on the screen. Ah, yes. Department head of applied politics and public
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affairs as Macamie College. I knew that not because it was on the screen. Yeah. And I'm just here for
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Nigel. That's why I'm here today. This is farewell. You break my heart. You break my heart.
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Okay. I think it's good for ratings that I keep you in your place. I think people like it. Yeah.
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I think they do. So let's continue. People, okay, people like the mean girl. All right. Well, we're
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going to talk about why are federalists so terrified of the Alberta flag? The self-appointed leader of
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the federalist stay in Canada side of the forthcoming maybe sort of referendums.
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And former deputy premier to Alice in Redford, Thomas Lukasik was caught. I don't know if
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caught's the right word, but he's bragging about it. But we certainly picked it up once
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Cory Morgan found it. Caught. Petitioning Safeway and other stores to take down that symbol of hate
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on a flag. No, it's not that flag. It's the Alberta flag. Old blue. Ordering that they have to take down
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this symbol of fascist oppression from stores. Lest people look at Old Blue and seethe with hatred
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at Ottawa and decide to become their own country. Or I'll talk about that. A pipeline, if necessary,
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but not necessarily a pipeline. Mark Carney saying one thing, but setting up potentially another.
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Playing on kind of that old Canadian political trick of not appeasing those who need to be appeased,
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but not really quite doing anything. Speaking of which, where we're going to start, a Palestinian
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state if necessary, but not necessarily a Palestinian state. Nigel, just last week,
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Prime Minister Mark Carney saying that Canada will recognize, intends to recognize a Palestinian state.
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He hasn't formally recognized that Palestinian state yet. But attaching certain conditions to it
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that make me think that if he does keep those conditions, he'll never be recognizing a Palestinian
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state. That's how I read it. Well, that's called having your cake and eating it too. Let's say,
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and that seems to be, I believe we're going to go into this a little bit more deeply later, but by and large,
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Mr. Carney says what he would like to happen, then places conditions on it so that he's got an escape
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route if things change. Now, in this case, it's not indigenous agreement and Quebec agreement that
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he's looking for. That would be a pipeline. But he wants to set three conditions on it. Hamas would not
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be part of any forthcoming, going forward, any Palestinian state. That the Hezbollah in West Bank
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will also disarm, which to some extent, they've been disarmed, but they don't like it. I can't
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imagine that they would ever want to stay that way. So, you know, you put these conditions out there,
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and maybe they haven't, maybe they don't. And if they don't show up, you try it.
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Corey, so yeah, you put these, Carney put down these conditions, and as did some heads of other
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governments around the world. Hamas has to be disarmed, has to play no role in the government.
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The hostages have to be released, and said Palestinian state has to recognize the right
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of Israel to exist. I mean, where the border should get drawn, to some extent is a fair debate,
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to some extent is a fraught debate. But these conditions are actually under those conditions.
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If they were theoretically possible, I'd say, okay, actually, those are pretty reasonable
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conditions, I think, to recognize a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have to recognize the Israeli
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state, and not go to war for maybe a period of, I don't know, two weeks, if they can do that.
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New record, yeah. Yeah. They're actually fairly, I think, reasonable demands to make that,
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if met, I think, would be, you know, a good, you know, grounds for which to recognize a Palestinian
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state. But I don't think there's any chance, like, Hamas is, I mean, the Gaza Strip lurks worse
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than Tokyo or Dresden right now. It's gone. And they're still fighting. They're not disarming,
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they're not giving up the hostages. I'm not really sure. The only reason I can see them
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continuing to fight is it's imposing an increasingly great political price on Israel
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and the Israeli government, turning world opinion against them, not necessarily in favor of Hamas,
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but at least against the Israelis. That's the only reason I can see why they still keep fighting at
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this point. Well, they're ideological maniacs. And you're asking for reason from them. I mean,
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their response to having world countries saying, okay, let's reward them for their terrorism,
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if they would just be nice again, and we'll give you your own state. And what they do,
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they released videos showing them torturing the prisoners they still have in custody right now.
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Like, yeah, Kearney is no fool, whatever he may be. There is no reasoning with Hamas. Hamas made it
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pretty clear right off the bat. No, we aren't disarming. No, we aren't releasing. You know,
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they've extended a nice big middle finger to the countries asking for that. And they want nothing
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less than the complete obliteration of Israel. So I don't know where this is going to end, but
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Kearney won't, he's just trying to play both sides and he's playing weak. I mean, what do people expect?
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Israel is supposed to just leave them there to keep firing more rockets and grabbing more hostages.
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The reality is the world is going to start calling for Hamas to bloody well, put the blame where it
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is. This is only going to end when they stop. The Arab League just came out. They've come out. Yeah.
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I mean, that's a big blow against Hamas when even the Arab League is like, guys, the jig is up. Time to go.
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The other thing that has to be understood, as you pointed out, most of Gaza is rubble. And guess what?
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Hamas is still hiding hostages and still launching rockets. Gazans are complicit. Not every one of them,
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but let's not pretend that Hamas isn't operating without the blessing of a large part of the
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civilian population as well. And I see it's showing clearly that it doesn't seem to matter how much
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abuse they take. The civilians won't turn on Hamas, but this isn't ending until Hamas is done.
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There's there's no other way about this. Erica, if say Palestine and I put that in air quotes,
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there's two Palestinian governments. There's Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West
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Bank and then arguably Israel as well as a third order of government there. But if Palestine,
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if we can call it that, you know, disarmed Hamas, Hamas did play no role. The hostages are released
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and they agreed to recognize Israel. They probably wouldn't recognize their claim on on Jerusalem,
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but let's say they recognized everything. But that was just left as a point of negotiation for later.
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Do you think, you know, Carney and others would be right in recognizing a Palestinian state if those
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conditions could be fulfilled? Well, I think if we're talking about sunshines and rainbows,
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so sure. We are here. Yes. And yeah. And so sure. But like cart before the horse. And right now we,
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like you said, but all the three of you separating Hamas from the state of Palestine is, I see it pretty
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unrealistic in the current state. There's lots of what ifs that have to happen in order for that. So for our
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prime minister to come out and say, okay, all of these conditions, this, this and this, which an average
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Canadian isn't going through the fine print of these conditions that are hypothetical to some degree.
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He's now sitting here saying all that Canadians pick up is I am going to recognize in September with other
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nations. And I will say there is some Eastern or Western European countries that are also saying the same,
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but that we're going to recognize Palestine as a state. I can tell you from the left leaning people
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that I know and follow on social media, that was the whole message was like, regardless of that fine
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print, the prime minister is going to recognize Palestine as a state. And I think what that did was
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really divide our country even more. It also, you know, resulted in tariffs from the south to
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respond to that decision that our prime minister premeditated or preemptively stated before even
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getting to September. So sure. I think that we could say that's an appropriate thing if ABCDEFG happen.
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I just think we're still at A. And so for what this means for Canada, we've already got some backlash of
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taking that position. I also think it's setting a tone where if you've ever gone to Ottawa in the last
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year or so, the disruption of their protests. We've seen it all across the country. We've seen
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post-secondaries be taken over to stand out for the Palestinians. The fact that we are Canada and we have
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taken an aggressive position on either side is disappointing to me at best.
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I do agree with that. I mean, it's, I think we've got to get out of the habit, particularly of those
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of us on a more conservative side of thinking we actually really have a stake there. We don't.
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It's a different country. It's a different part of the world. I wish everyone there well, wish them peace
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and prosperity. Well, for everyone, there's, there's side, both sides have been very guilty of hurting
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innocent people. And I just, I think us taking a stance either way, especially when you said,
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to what benefit of us? Exactly. What is in our national interest? What national interest is being served?
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So Nigel, this raises the question, why? Why did Mark Carney say this? I think, I think Erica is correct,
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that most people just heard Canada is going to be recognizing Palestinian state.
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I think, you know, how many people see people do this all the time? They just read the headline
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on X or where, or wherever. They don't read the story. If they read the story, I actually don't
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think it's a particularly unreasonable way to go about it. I don't think there's any chance Hamas ever
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agrees to it because it's too reasonable. They won't agree to it. Maybe I'm wrong. But, but like, why
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is it simply the domestic voting audience that he's trying to appeal to, you know, the combination
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of kind of campus lefties and, you know, the large and growing Islamic vote in Canada by saying this,
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but then attaching conditions to it that make it highly unlikely that if he sticks to those conditions,
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that Canada will ever be recognizing a Palestinian state in the near future?
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Well, I think after the events of October the 7th, 2023, nobody wants to see the
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Hamas rewarded with its own state. But Carney is correct. Mr. Carney, I should say, is correct
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in this much that a two-state solution has always been Canada's policy, even during the ministry of
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Stephen Harper, who was famously very, very pro-Israel, and therefore by definition opposed to
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Hamas and Hezbollah. He was, I pulled it off the files here. He made this statement in West Bank during
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an interview back in 2014. And he said, let me just say the position of the government of Canada,
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I think, as you know well, is we favor and indeed believe that these matters can only be resolved
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through a two-state solution with two states. And of course, here came his conditions, which are
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essentially the same as Carney's, just differently worded, two states that are viable, prosperous,
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secure, democratic, and living in peace. So this has always been the Canadian position.
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Mr. Carney, why did he say it now? That puzzles me deeply. I have a theory, but it doesn't actually
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worth much. Why did he say it now? When we were in the middle of tariff negotiations with the United
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States, first he encapsulated supply management into law. And then he said he was prepared to
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recognize the Palestinian state under certain conditions, knowing full well that President
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Trump A, hates supply management, B, is strongly pro-Israel. Why would you poke him like that
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at such a sensitive time? Like it was the day before the August, July the 31st and the time limit there.
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So all I can think of is that perhaps Mr. Carney thought there isn't going to be a deal anyway.
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We're never going to close the gap on steel and aluminium tariffs. So I'll pick up a little bit of
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free goodwill from people who don't like me by saying that under certain conditions I'm prepared
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to recognize a Palestine state. Maybe he even thinks that's the right thing to do. But if he does,
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well, I guess other prime ministers have thought the same thing under the same kind of conditions
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that he outlined. He didn't think there was a big political cost in doing so.
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Well, OK, before we move on to the pipeline side of things, Corey, I still haven't found a satisfactory
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answer to why he's done this. I'm not sure I agree with you, Nigel, on the Trump thing.
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Disagreement on the pipeline is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure I agree on that. Like,
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look, Israel, the United States is not acting in its national self-interest on the Israel question
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right now. It's in the United States, United States' self-interest to have peace in the region.
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I don't think Netanyahu was a big fan of that. I think while he was appalled by the October 7th
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attacks, he also saw it as the perfect excuse to invade. I think it's pretty amply clear that he
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wanted to. And I think his intention is ultimately to annex Gaza and expand the borders of Israel.
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That seems to align with where he's going on this. But Canada's national interest is served
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primarily by getting a trade deal. That is by far the most important foreign policy goal for the
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Canadian national interest right now. And it's not in Canada's national interest to piss off Trump, but
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it's... Well, I'm sympathetic to Trump on a lot of these things. I don't think that's necessarily
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his business about our foreign policy on that issue. So I don't think it was that. I think it's more
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likely he's trying to shore up a domestic Islamic voting bloc. It's a very, very large bloc in Canada.
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And by saying this, he's, you know, making them happy. But by attaching these conditions to it,
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he's making it unlikely that he would ever have to act on it and alienate Jewish voters,
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which have traditionally made up a large bloc of liberal voters.
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Yeah. Well, they made no bones about that. There was a couple of liberal members who said,
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I mean, there was a candid conversation with one who said, you know, the demographics of my
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riding, I have to keep the Islamic community happier. I'm not going to win my seat.
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And before Carney came out with that statement on potential statehood for Palestine, it was said
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that he's dealing with caucus pressures. He has a number of his own members of parliament who were
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pressuring him to do this. He gave himself an out with the conditions that he attached to it. But yeah,
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there's a lot at play in this and some of it's just pure politics in keeping his own caucus happy.
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The Jewish vote has always been a tiny vote, though they probably donate a thousand dollars for every
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dollar that an Islamic person puts forward. So you want the money or the votes? He's chose the votes
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for now. But if there's just less when you're looking at it politically, there's less to gain
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in Canada by with something divided between Jews and Muslims, the taking the Jewish side versus the
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Muslim. Well, we're going to I think we've got a nice, neat theme here.
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You know, we're kind of Canadian people in Canadian media, especially colonists do this way too often.
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I'm guilty of it twice today. You know, paraphrasing William Mackenzie King and saying conscription if
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necessary, but not necessarily conscription, which really was just the most Canadian political thing
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to say ever, which is why we use it so often. It's it's this equivocation of not having to really
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take one side. You know, the Canadian generals in the Second World War were demanding conscription.
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We need more troops, but there was huge opposition to it in Quebec. So we had conscription sort of,
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but only volunteers would actually go fight. The conscripts would stay and, you know, guard
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a warehouse in Quebec City somewhere, you know, before the ships leave. So, yeah, a Palestinian state
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if necessary, but not necessarily a Palestinian state. Same goes, I think, for pipelines. Nigel and I were
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talking about this this morning, you know, he's brought forward. He said, we're going to build
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pipelines. We're going to be an energy superpower. And that includes oil and gas, which require pipelines.
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Now we're going to build pipelines. Asterisk, if everyone agrees, as long as, yes, we will build pipelines
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as long as Quebec is okay with it. As long as every single indigenous group, even vaguely and peripherally
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affected, agrees to it. We'll build pipelines. I don't know. You could take it from here.
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Yeah. I mean, I think the big thing with Carney is what we're learning is he's a little mushy middle.
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He doesn't want to take sides on anything. He is trying to not be the bad guy in the conflict in
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Gaza. And so he's hoping that he'll be like, okay, here's all the conditions. Oh, sorry. Hamas couldn't
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separate themselves from the Palestinian people or couldn't remove themselves from this conflict.
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Therefore, don't blame me blame them. I think the same thing is, oh, I'm going to be pro energy,
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like renewable and traditional. But if it's going to be someone's fault, it's going to be Quebec's
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because they won't give you market access, or it's going to be the indigenous that are going to,
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you know, stomp and scream and fight saying that they're not getting their fair share or whatever
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it is. And so I think he's trying to be something for everyone and half baking all of these policies
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that he's announcing or positions he's announcing. And the pipelines where we've already seen his first
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meetings with indigenous groups, mainly in Northern BC have basically said like, nice try guy, but like,
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we're not going to entertain this. Um, see you later. He can now point to them to be the bad guys.
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And I think that's what he's trying to set up. He's trying to be this prime minister for everybody.
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And he's going to end up being prime minister for nobody.
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Uh, Corey, uh, I don't know. We, we haven't seen, I mean, we have seen a bill on this actually,
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you know, the national infrastructure priorities, whatever the building Canada,
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the building Canada. Yeah. Um, we've seen something, but it's, it still seems nebulous.
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Uh, we haven't had the application for a pipeline come in yet. Um, but requiring essentially unanimous
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consent of everyone gives everyone a veto. And when you have a veto, you could demand so much more to
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the point where it might not even make sense to go forward. Um, I mean, provinces should be consulted,
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I guess, for pipelines going through, I don't think that's unreasonable. Uh, first nations
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should be consulted. If it goes through their land, there should be some benefit to them. Uh,
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but if everyone's got a hard veto, uh, it ups everyone's negotiating power to the nth degree,
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to the point where the proponent of the, uh, uh, you know, is facing, uh, so many roadblocks that
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it could be damn near impossible to make a profitable case to do these things.
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Yeah. He, he has to, again, it's an effective theme. He's got to show a stance. Yes or no.
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Cause this wishy-washy thing companies aren't going to commit billions to that. Uh, he's got to stand
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up and define the difference between consent and consult. Uh, Sean Fraser, his own minister dared to
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do that. What a couple of months ago, and he got pilloried for it and apologized. Cause he actually
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stated the law that I'm sorry, but we don't need consent from indigenous people. We are obligated to
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consult and they went bananas and he retracted it and apologized, but he was absolutely right.
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So if they can't even say it out loud, no company's going to put the money in, no application's going
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to come. And I fear what he's building up is he's an ideological leader as well, though he could say,
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well, look, I tried, but it would be similar to like Justin Trudeau. There's obviously no business
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case because no private interest has stepped up and he'll lay it on that rather than the reality that
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nobody in the right mind would invest in that climate. Why spend hundreds of millions,
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possibly billions on the studies and the, the applications and all of that only to be hitting
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a brick wall as other companies have done? Uh, Nigel, I, I think the building of what Corey said,
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I think in both cases, recognize a palette, recognizing a Palestinian state on pipelines.
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I think he actually wants a no on both. I think, uh, just judging by what he's set up as the criteria
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for both. He just doesn't want to be the one to say no on a Palestinian state. Hey, look,
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I want to recognize a Palestinian state. I want to go there, but look, these are the reasonable
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conditions I set out. Hamas won't disarm, et cetera, et cetera. Sorry. It wasn't my choice.
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That was them similar on a, on a pipeline. I think he wants to know, cause we know he's got a long
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ideological track record. He's written books on this stuff. He, you know, uh, was he a sudden
00:24:43.960
convert to pipelines? No, he's a sudden convert to political reality. And if you keep Alberta
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in Canada, you can't just say, no, no pipelines. If you want to appear to be the reasonable moderate guy
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who's not as crazy as the ideologue, Justin Trudeau, you can't just say no to pipelines,
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but he can go through this, set up a new set of roadblocks to the point where other companies
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aren't willing to go forward. They don't have to be projected. They're going to say, hey,
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these roadblocks are, we just can't get through it. And then they withdraw. As Corey said,
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he is not the one saying no to pipelines. It's just, ah, those pipelines couldn't meet these
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reasonable conditions that I've set out. I think this is actually just very smart politics. This is
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3d chess that he is able to get a no on these things. He wants to know to by just setting up,
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uh, you know, setting a line that he knows no one's going to meet.
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You know, on those two particular items, I think you may be right. I mean, before you came in this
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morning, we were having a discussion about sometimes just doing nothing until you're absolutely forced
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to do something is smart politics. The issue I have with that is that sometimes you want
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a politician to actually say, this is what I believe in. And although there is opposition,
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I am going forward. You know, one of the, one of the things that is helping us right now
00:26:13.240
is that quite a steel and aluminum, except that a lot of Canadian exports are presently protected
00:26:21.560
by the, um, the, the, the U S, uh, Mexico, Canada trade agreement, otherwise known as CUSMA.
00:26:30.600
And it is a successor to what, to the North American free trade association,
00:26:36.440
which Brian Mulroney won for us back in the 1980s.
00:26:40.760
Well, if Brian Mulroney had taken the Carney-esque approach to politics,
00:26:46.200
he would have probably found a reason not to complete the negotiations
00:26:51.800
that led to NAFTA, because a lot of people didn't want it. The unions were dead set against
00:26:56.280
it. The NDP were campaigning on it. The liberals didn't like it. But Mulroney stuck to his guns.
00:27:03.160
He got NAFTA. And today we have the advantage of that through the legacy treaty that still protects
00:27:12.360
some Canadian exports from the tariffs that Mr. Trump has applied over and above. So there is a value
00:27:20.760
to a politician believing in something, going forward, making it happen, making it work,
00:27:25.960
in staying the course. What we see from Mr. Carney is actually a recipe for the Canadian drift that
00:27:34.680
we have been experiencing since, certainly since the, uh, start of Mr. Trudeau's, uh, coming to
00:27:42.200
office back in 2015. It's getting us nowhere. It's taking us nowhere. Maybe if you actually want
00:27:48.520
to build a stronger Canada, I think Mr. Carney may find he's going to have to be a little stronger himself.
00:27:54.520
But how did Brian Mulroney's Prime Minister ship end? He did take big, bold gambles. It paid off on
00:28:03.240
NAFTA. But he also took a big, bold gamble on the GST. And ultimately that policy did endure. It
00:28:10.280
can endure to this day. It was a very, it was on wildly unpopular. But in hindsight, everyone agrees that
00:28:16.840
that was a no brainer fix to the economy and the finances of the country. Uh, he took big,
00:28:24.440
bold gambles on the constitution at Charlottetown and at Meech Lake. Uh, I think they were well
00:28:30.600
intentioned, but they were, they were terrible and rightfully defeated, but, um, they ultimately blew
00:28:38.280
up his political coalition and left him politically radioactive until pretty much near the end of his
00:28:43.640
life. Um, making big, bold decisions, I think is the reason you should be in politics to change things.
00:28:50.760
But it invariably, I think, shortens your political life. It's going to make you unpopular. It's going to,
00:28:56.440
it's going to limit your time in office. It's going to limit, uh, how many people like you.
00:29:02.120
If your goal is power over the longterm, the more indirect, some would say cowardly approach,
00:29:10.360
but you know, the indirect, you know, maybe more, it's this, it's a Sun Tzu indirect approach.
00:29:14.600
Perhaps that is better. I'm not sure Brian Mulroney is a great example of big political
00:29:19.000
gambles paying off very well. Well, it pays off for the country. I mean, you could, when you're
00:29:23.240
choosing a prime minister, you're going to either pick a guy who wants to be the prime minister,
00:29:29.320
or you can pick a guy who wants to get something done. Now, the guy who wants to get something
00:29:34.520
done may well pay the political cost. You use up your political capital and then you disappear.
00:29:40.680
It's unfortunate, but, um, you know, I've never been a big more Brian Mulroney fan,
00:29:47.000
but right now I can see where, what he did is paying off for Mr. Carney, little people.
00:29:53.720
Um, Erica, this might be a good pivot to where we're going to go.
00:29:56.840
Uh, you know, I've said that Mark Carney is, you know, on both Palestine and pipelines,
00:30:02.360
he's putting up these conditions that he doesn't, I, I suspect he doesn't think will be fulfilled.
00:30:09.240
And these ideas can be shot down, not by himself. He could say, ah, it was out of my hands.
00:30:14.600
Some would accuse Danielle Smith of doing the same thing with Ottawa. She has put down conditions by
00:30:20.280
which, uh, Alberta would be happy and content in Confederation. That's, uh, ending equalization,
00:30:26.920
essentially to Quebec and Ontario, uh, that we build pipelines. We end, uh, Ottawa's meddling in
00:30:33.000
areas of jurisdiction under the guise of the environment, et cetera. You know, she, she has her
00:30:37.720
seven big conditions or 11 if it's parsed out more. Some would say that, uh, she knows Ottawa. I, you know,
00:30:45.560
I, I've, you know, read some of these lefty columnists who say she knows Ottawa will never
00:30:50.040
say yes to these things. I always consider those to be an extremely low bar, uh, for accepting rule
00:30:58.280
by Ottawa. But yes, of course we should not be funding Quebec from Alberta tax dollars. We should
00:31:03.400
not be, uh, allowing Ottawa to, to meddle in our provincial jurisdiction, et cetera. For me,
00:31:09.400
those are a pretty, they're actually, those conditions are not enough to make me content
00:31:14.040
with Ottawa rule, but, uh, she's been accused and I can see where they're at least coming from
00:31:18.200
of maybe similarly setting up these conditions that she knows cannot be fulfilled. And that, uh, acts as,
00:31:25.800
you know, cause for her potentially to come out in favor of an independence referendum at some point.
00:31:30.280
Uh, what are your thoughts? Well, I think a few things first off, she is playing by the rule book
00:31:37.640
of how the constitution is structured, where in this case with pipelines, the federal government
00:31:44.360
to many of our points is consulting versus consent working. If the provinces are asking for it and
00:31:51.400
they're okay, like that's their natural resources falls to the province. So I think she's playing the
00:31:56.040
game a little bit more by the playbook, um, where the jurisdiction of those national projects or our
00:32:05.640
international relations is up to the jurisdiction of the prime minister. So I, I do sympathize with
00:32:11.640
what you're saying on, is it, you know, um, pot calling kettle black. I actually don't think it really
00:32:18.120
is as clear as that because she's looking at things that should be reset to ultimately get back to say
00:32:25.720
equalization where the province are equal partners to the federal government, where each of them stay
00:32:31.560
in their own lanes. So, but to your point, is it ever going to actually like, is an equalization formula
00:32:39.320
change really realistic? Who knows? But I would say... Well, even Paul Yev doesn't, he says he won't
00:32:45.240
change it. No, or, or looking at different things. So, yeah. And, and so where I think Alberta is going
00:32:51.720
and I think where we want to take the conversation is, okay, what does that mean for Albertans? I mean,
00:32:57.080
I still get really happy that she's standing up for that because there's other provinces that do.
00:33:01.400
I'm in Saskatchewan where I was born and raised right now and they feel the same way. They're just not as
00:33:05.400
good about advocating for it vocally on the national stage. Um, so we'll see, you know, how that plays
00:33:12.760
out. She's also making very bold moves here that could play out really well for her or not. So, I
00:33:18.680
think we also kind of were foreshadowing Alberta from some of the Brian Mulroney decisions, how healthcare
00:33:24.760
reform is going to play out, how looking at some of these, um, exploring pension, that kind of flopped.
00:33:31.160
Now we're looking at the provincial police and the Alberta next panels. I'm actually going to
00:33:35.320
the one in Edmonton on the 14th. So I should be able to report back how that, that lands. Um,
00:33:42.520
but either way, how we started this show is you talking about one of my least favorite politicians
00:33:47.400
or wannabe politicians, Thomas Lukaszek. I don't care how you feel about federalism. I love federalism
00:33:53.560
on how it's actually supposed to be constructed. But the fact that we have an individual that's trying to
00:33:59.160
say that the Alberta flag is a negative thing is I think completely distasteful
00:34:05.640
and something that our viewers should be hearing more about to, to really educate themselves on what
00:34:11.880
that means for unity and for our province. Yeah. All right. We're transitioning beautifully.
00:34:17.960
Uh, Corey, it was actually your tweet that, uh, brought this to my attention.
00:34:22.520
Uh, you found, uh, okay. So just so people know, both people don't know who this guy is.
00:34:29.720
Oh my gosh. He was the first politician at the legislature I worked for.
00:34:38.520
Yeah. When he was the minister of education, my first job at the legislature. So
00:34:46.040
Thank God you found Jesus. All right. Um, well, okay. So just so people know,
00:34:51.400
most people don't know who this guy is. He, uh, I guess he was a progressive conservative MLA.
00:35:00.040
Uh, when Alison Redford comes to power, uh, wins in 2012, she makes him deputy premier.
00:35:06.040
Uh, with no other portfolio. Can we just mention that he was the deputy premier with no other portfolio,
00:35:11.960
basically giving someone a make believe job. So they'd be quiet.
00:35:15.080
Yeah. Yeah. Generally when I was there, I can say it.
00:35:17.640
Yeah. Well, when you see, uh, a leader, a deputy leader of a party without a portfolio,
00:35:21.960
it means, uh, they're probably not very good normally. Um, so, uh, but anyway, this, he
00:35:29.320
fell out of that office with Al's Redford's collapse. And, you know, you have like a $20,000
00:35:33.640
phone bill or something while he's on vacation that he put the taxpayers. And so he was out,
00:35:37.320
he lost his seat in 2015 when the NDP came in. Uh, and I don't know if he's had a job since,
00:35:42.920
I think he's just been on Twitter. Uh, I don't know how he's been paying his bills. Maybe,
00:35:46.760
maybe see if he makes a lot. I don't know. I don't know, but I'm not aware of,
00:35:50.840
he's a kept man. That's his business. Yeah. Uh, but as far as I know, he's just
00:35:54.360
been tweeting for the last decade or so. Uh, but he is, uh, fashioned himself, uh, Captain Canada here.
00:36:01.320
He is, um, uh, yeah. Uh, so he, he was up to something. You found it. We've done a bunch
00:36:07.400
on it since, uh, just, but just tell people exactly what happened. Yeah. And to be fair to
00:36:11.160
Lukasik and I find him as odious as most of us here do, uh, it wasn't him directly who, who decided
00:36:17.480
it was a good idea to crap on Alberta's flag. It was one of his followers on his Facebook group for
00:36:24.280
I guess I gotta give some more backstory. Lukasik is trying a counter petition to the independence
00:36:28.200
movement to hold a fake referendum, which would just say, we're all happy. We're going to stay
00:36:32.760
in Canada, which doesn't change anything. It's like a trolling move. They have a book that they
00:36:37.000
call or a Facebook page. They called forever Canadian where they were organizing and gathering
00:36:41.800
other members to push this petition and get it going. And I just checked it out and I scrolled my
00:36:47.400
way down. I guess more of it curiosity. And I found this posting from one of their supporters
00:36:52.120
who had put a picture up on that group days before saying, yeah, I'd found this Alberta flag
00:36:57.480
hanging in a Safeway and medicine hat. And I control, I complained to the Western managers
00:37:02.520
and they pulled it down and we got to stop, you know, getting, we got to get these symbols torn
00:37:06.280
down of, of this, this separatism and this terrible things, the Alberta flag. Part of why I lay this on
00:37:11.080
Lukasik's feet is, Hey, if you're going to head the movement, you wear what your supporters do and you
00:37:16.760
control their communications on a page that you is representing you. I mean, you can't control this one
00:37:22.440
dingbat, but I had thought he was, uh, he was pushing, but if he'd done that five days before
00:37:30.360
by then, somebody should have said, you know, we might want to pull that off there before some
00:37:34.680
clown like Cory Morgan spots it and throws it out on X and completely embarrasses you. This went bad
00:37:39.720
to the point that they shut down that Facebook page. Lukasik has reopened his old campaign page
00:37:44.680
from 2014 to use as a new Facebook hub to try and rejuvenate because you don't attack the symbol
00:37:53.400
of a province. I mean, symbols are important. They're emotionally, they're attached to people.
00:37:58.280
You can attack the independence movement. You can attack the individuals, but when you start
00:38:02.920
besmirching the flag of Alberta that had the exact opposite effect of what they were looking to do,
00:38:09.400
but it does show the mindset of the following. Cause it wasn't just this gentleman who did that to
00:38:14.680
Safeway, which by the way, Safeway put it right back up once the backlash hit them. I think they
00:38:18.520
just wanted to sell groceries. They didn't want to get in the middle of them. Yes. It was just a flag.
00:38:22.280
Uh, but it was all the other people commenting below, gee, where do I contact my local Safeway?
00:38:26.760
I better do this for other businesses. Like that also started to show. And that's why they had to get
00:38:30.280
rid of that Facebook page. Cause it's not just one nut. It's Lukasik's gang of little elbows up
00:38:35.080
minions started going after the Alberta flag. And, uh, they actually had to crash their whole
00:38:40.440
page to get out of the mess they stepped in. It says a lot about how well organized his little
00:38:44.040
movement is too. Uh, Erica. Um, okay. So Lukasik, I guess, wasn't behind the campaign itself to
00:38:51.000
remove Alberta flags. So I, if I miss, uh, yeah, no, I, I thought the same, but that was because I read
00:38:56.520
the same thing. But I, but, but it is, it is his organization. And I, I half agree with you,
00:39:02.680
Corey, that you have to wear what your supporters do. I half don't, I mean, like anyone who's ever
00:39:06.920
been a part of a big movement or in a political party knows you've always got some nutters,
00:39:10.760
but if someone goes particularly far off the reserve, you've got to make the point that no,
00:39:15.560
that guy doesn't represent us. I think that's fair. And you don't have to do it for every little
00:39:19.560
asshole who says something stupid, but if you've got something and you've left it up there and your
00:39:23.720
people are clearly ginned up and excited about it. No, you have to wear that if you, if you're not going
00:39:28.280
to condemn it, but I, I, okay. I, coming back to you because I didn't know you worked for Lukasik,
00:39:34.200
but, uh, when I was discussing this, I learned so much. Yeah. When I was discussing this with,
00:39:38.760
uh, Nigel and Corey this morning, when we're figuring out what we're going to talk about,
00:39:44.120
I, I thought, isn't it incredible that Thomas Lukasik is the face of the federalist cause here.
00:39:50.120
And I thought, you know, if I was running like the, an Alberta counterintelligence agency,
00:39:55.400
like Daniel Smith created the Alberta CIA and I was in charge of it or something. And I got to do
00:40:01.080
all sorts of subversive counterintelligence things. I would have planted Thomas Lukasik as,
00:40:08.120
as like the boss of the federalist side. If I could have picked like which greasy,
00:40:15.800
unarticulate, inarticulate, uh, disreputable guy, can I get to lead the other side? So it's
00:40:23.720
still to discredit that side. I would've been like, ding, ding, ding, Thomas Lukasik. Let's,
00:40:29.000
that's the guy we want. How in the hell have the federalist side seemingly accepted
00:40:36.680
Thomas Lukasik as their captain candidate here? Well, I think he's been positioning himself by
00:40:42.360
seeking a job for the last decade of becoming very much a, you know, distancing himself from what he
00:40:50.280
once was, which was a red Tory to a pure red liberal. Um, and so he has been very vocal,
00:40:59.160
hated Jason Kenney. Like when they were both, uh, ministers, they fought, um, very publicly as I
00:41:06.840
think many might remember. He didn't like Daniel Smith ever. So this was a great opportunity to give
00:41:14.520
someone that wanted it a platform. Now I will say Thomas worked really hard. Like he was a very
00:41:19.880
hardworking MLA, very good to his constituents. So I ideologically, I disagree with everything that
00:41:26.520
he said. Um, but he, he, he is a hard worker. So I think from the left, they're like, well,
00:41:33.480
this is a guy that will actually roll up their sleeves and pound pavement and be loud about it.
00:41:39.080
Um, and, and, you know, not being born and raised here or coming here at a young age has a story that
00:41:44.680
might be relatable to a lot of people we want to get behind, um, this movement. And so I can see on
00:41:51.720
paper or maybe just doing a quick search of him, but you're right. If I was running like oppo research
00:41:57.800
or like behind the scenes stuff, I also would put Thomas Lukasik there because I think it actually does
00:42:03.720
help contrast between Danielle Smith or even any of the, the individuals, uh, working towards
00:42:11.640
looking at what separatism or independence would look like. I would love to have Thomas Lukasik
00:42:18.360
as the alternative, because I don't think it helps their cause.
00:42:21.720
Uh, I guess just quickly before we go to our parting shots, Nigel, um,
00:42:26.200
um, the federalist conservatives in Alberta, I mean, a majority, a pretty big majority of Alberta
00:42:33.880
self-identified conservative voters say they support independence, but there's a
00:42:38.520
pretty sizable minority who do not, uh, who are federalists. Um, and, and that's disproportionately
00:42:46.600
a higher number, the higher up the political food chain you go, you got, you know, you're Jason Kenney's,
00:42:50.840
et cetera. How do you think those guys are going to feel, uh, marching in Thomas's little band?
00:42:59.240
Well, you know, they don't have to wait to march in his band to feel a bit awkward because
00:43:04.680
they may still be federalists, but that doesn't mean they like the values that the liberals are
00:43:11.880
pushing and imposing on the rest of the country. They don't want that in here in Alberta. So they're
00:43:18.120
just really not quite ready to, uh, to raise the revolutionary flag, but you know, people aren't
00:43:25.960
happy. I think Thomas is going to be the gift that keeps giving. Oh, I'm planning on making a match.
00:43:32.440
I think he can. He's the next Nenshi. Like that was a great gift for conservatives to have Nenshi
00:43:37.880
as the NDP. And now we have, uh, Thomas leading loud and proud of the, uh,
00:43:42.680
You don't think one Nenshi is enough? Go Fabio. Hey, if it helps our movement,
00:43:48.840
they can both do whatever they want. Okay. All right. Uh, well, let's move it into parting shots
00:43:55.480
since you've been missing, uh, from us for some time. Erica, why don't you start? Well,
00:44:00.040
I was here when you weren't just for the record and we had quite a time. That was one week. And I,
00:44:04.680
you guys said, I know Derek's not watching. I watched. No, I think you said we don't miss him.
00:44:09.480
I think that was different and I don't remember, but something along those lines. Anyways. Okay.
00:44:13.640
My parting shot is not directed at you, Derek. Um, it is directed at Elections Canada. Uh,
00:44:20.200
I think it's actual complete bullshit and an insult to democracy that after what happened in the
00:44:25.240
Carlton riding of Pierre Polyev that they weren't looking to streamline or make this process or disregard
00:44:33.160
or like make some quick changes in regulations or something to address the fact of having 200
00:44:39.400
candidates, all 180 or so that have the same CFO, the same, um, official agent, all of these things,
00:44:48.680
same signatures. Like to me, that is not a demo democratic, um, reflection of how Canada is
00:44:54.840
supposed to work. And so I know that they've made this piss poor attempt to list all of the candidates.
00:45:02.200
Now you have to write them in, but as a result, I will personally be going and scrutineering,
00:45:07.240
uh, to make sure that every vote for Pierre and the conservatives is clear and counted and that
00:45:14.120
they can't make excuses for misspelling or any of that sort. So I think it's like a, you know,
00:45:20.440
uh, half-assed solution to something that they should have addressed from the outset.
00:45:24.920
Okay. Nigel. Oh, no, no. You're going to be the last one today. Cause today's your last parting
00:45:29.800
shot. No, Corey. Well, I'll be quick here. Then, uh, Travis Donrudge is the latest senior CBC
00:45:35.320
reporter who has left, uh, and, uh, has been speaking out about the working conditions at the
00:45:40.120
mother corp there. And Catherine Marshall's his lawyer. And I caught her in an interview where she's
00:45:45.160
speaking of some of the things she's learning about the working conditions. And this just says so much
00:45:48.440
about the CBC. Apparently they have designated crying rooms for staff within the CBC. If you're
00:45:56.840
overwhelmed, if it's all just too much, if you just can't take it anymore, we shouldn't have you
00:46:01.160
crying around the rest of you. So hello to your designated crying room, have a good cry and get it
00:46:05.640
out. What a pathetic organization. Well, that's what I call your office here, the crying room.
00:46:09.640
Robyn, when you make me cry, we have it right in public in front of everybody. And if I didn't hear
00:46:14.280
you. Your desk is actually not at all. You're in the middle of the newsroom. So when you
00:46:18.360
cry, we all hear it. That's right. Yeah. Uh, I'm sure I'm going to take mine real, real quick.
00:46:24.600
You get the last one. Uh, and it's not really a regular parting shot, but I just want to say
00:46:29.000
I have become addicted to the Tucker Carlson podcast lately. It is, uh, so taboo and so in depth.
00:46:36.680
It's, um, it's, uh, he's just the most incredible guests on, um, exploring, uh,
00:46:44.600
uh, Hey, I'm listening on the Oklahoma city bombing right now. I thought I knew everything
00:46:49.400
about it in a quite a bit of detail. I'm learning all sorts of new stuff. Uh, so it's not a regular
00:46:54.360
parting shot in the news. I just want to call attention to it. I normally don't listen. I
00:46:57.960
don't consume a lot of American news content. I'm very much an exception to most Canadians.
00:47:02.920
We actually prefer American news over Canadian, but, uh, I just want to flag attention to that.
00:47:06.920
That has become a phenomenal program to listen to. Uh, and for his final parting shot, we will
00:47:14.680
have him back in the future, but his final parting shot as opinion editor of the Western
00:47:19.160
standard before he arrives into retirement sunset, Nigel. I feel like I should say something
00:47:24.360
terribly profound and, but really what I, what I need to say is what a incredible three years
00:47:30.920
it has been here at the Western standard. What an honor to work having started in newspapers
00:47:36.760
that still had led presses to come. I was all online, but above all, to present a conservative
00:47:41.800
point of view to a conservative audience, you know, a chance to say what you want to say.
00:47:46.760
Phil LeBrand has never censored me that I appreciate. So thank you for that, Derek.
00:47:52.280
You're not allowed to say that. Cut the camera. Thank you, Nigel. Uh, Nigel, no, it's been, uh,
00:47:58.600
a profound privilege working with you. You've, um, you really upped, uh, the quality of, of debate
00:48:05.640
and argument, uh, and polemics here. I am, uh, so glad to have had you and we're, we're very sad to
00:48:12.440
miss you. Um, but we're, we're going to get you back in for the pipeline, uh, from time to time here.
00:48:17.400
And, uh, um, we're still going to be counting on your columns. All right. Thank you. All right.
00:48:23.400
Uh, everyone in the comment sections, you should leave, uh, some nice thank yous to, to Nigel if,
00:48:28.920
if you like him, if you don't like him, say some mean things. We like mean things here too.
00:48:32.600
It's okay. All right. Nigel, Corey, Erica. Thank you. Thank you, John on production.
00:48:38.120
Thank all of you who have, uh, joined us today. We appreciate the time you've shared with us.
00:48:44.600
Thank you for everything you've done. Go to westernstandard.news right now. Click on
00:48:48.360
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