The Pipeline - Episode 1 - Kenney Goes to Ottawa
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Summary
Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard, joins me to talk about the launch of the new Western Standard and how it came to be. We also discuss the legacy of the old Western Standard publication, and the parallels between the new site and the old one.
Transcript
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Welcome to The Western Standard's The Pipeline. My name is Paul Holmes and I'm the digital editor
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with Western Standard and joining me today is Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of The Western
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Standard. Derek, how are you? I'm cold. You're cold. And that's because you're coming from Calgary,
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Alberta, and I'm coming from the beautiful and balmy Victoria, British Columbia. Both west,
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but a little different. Yeah, don't rub it in. Fair enough. So, of course, this being our very first
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official episode of The Pipeline, I think we should probably start with an overview of
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the Western Standard and the relaunch thereof, which has been an amazing success. Why don't you tell
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the audience on YouTube for the very first time a little bit about where we're at and how we got
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there? Well, about a month out from the federal election, I was looking at the math and without
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patting my own back too much, I thought the result would be almost exactly what we got. And I had a
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feeling that the growing sentiment in the West, in particular, the West outside of Victoria would
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react very negatively to this. And my feelings didn't change. My feelings around Western issues
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are more structural in nature, don't really depend on what party of politicians in power at any given
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time. But I looked at the media landscape and the political landscape. And I thought there would be,
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there was a huge vacuum for an independent media source focused on Western issues that isn't owned
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or serving interests in Central Canada or the United States, but that is owned and operated
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and staffed purely in Western Canada, focusing on Western issues that would provide both credible news
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on the news side of what we're doing. That wouldn't be into some, maybe some of the flakier stuff you
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see from independent media sites out there. But that would also couple it with a strong opinion side.
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So we recruited a great team of strong opinion columnists. We also built a good news team as well.
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And so in our short early time here, we've had fantastic success in building a new Western
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standard just on the legacy of the old Western standard that I hope is doing it proud. And we
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just closed out our first full month of November with a hair under 800,000 readers, which, when you
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take bounce rates into account, would, by our math, make us the third largest or third most read online
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news site in Western Canada. So for our first month, I'm pretty happy with that.
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So, you know, we're chugging along. We're full steam ahead here. I'm not going to stop until we
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can buy the Toronto Star, which at current stock prices should be in about a month or two.
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But yeah, we've had a tremendous success here providing an independent media voice for Western
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Canada, not supported by any government subsidies. We refuse to take it. But supported by members
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of the Western standard can go on to the membership section of westernstandardonline.com, become a
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regular monthly contributor, because if you want to see this kind of thing, people have to pay to
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pay to help keep it going. But I want to thank everybody who's done it so far.
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Awesome. And for those who don't know the the old Western standard, their story, of course,
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they were a print magazine. They kind of formed from the ashes of the previous Western report. I guess
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some of the same staff started the Western standard. And, and then the became very famous with the
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publication of the Muhammad cartoons. And I guess shortly, not too much long thereafter,
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they just, they, they, they stopped printing the magazine. And of course, the industry was in a
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crazy amount of turmoil at the time. But any, any background or any sort of high points that you
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want to highlight, you know, around the old Western standard and maybe some parallels with what you're
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trying to put together? Well, it was a different beast there. They were trying to do print and
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they maybe didn't know, I don't think they knew it when they started it, but they were starting a print
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publication exactly the time that print was dying. Yeah. I don't believe print will ever completely die,
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but it certainly is not, you know, the print industry is a shell of its former self. They were coming in just
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as things were moving to online and they, they didn't hop on the online train fast enough.
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Uh, I never truly understood why they folded until, uh, until I took ownership of the Western standard.
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And, uh, I actually think they could have continued to make a go of it, but, uh, for, for one reason or
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another, they decided to call it a day. But, uh, I, I remember very fondly, uh, you know, I, I would eat
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ramen noodles a couple days a month in the university, just so I could afford my Western standard subscription.
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And, uh, I think I had about six months left on my subscription when it folded. And so I felt I needed
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at least six months more Western standard. So I figured why not just start it again?
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They did not give me my money back, but I own it now. So I suppose it's.
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All right. Well, that's, uh, that's the best of karma, right?
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Right on. Okay. So, uh, so we're going to cover the, the weekly national, um, affairs,
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and we're going to start with some of the, uh, topics, the idea of this show,
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for those who are tuning in for the first time, the idea is that we're going to cover
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obviously Western focused, but national, uh, topics. And the big highlight this week,
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of course, is the fair deal, uh, panel with, um, Jason Kenney and, uh, his trip to Ottawa
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and, uh, some of the topics around that. So, uh, where do we want to start there? Do you want
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to start with the, um, his trip to Ottawa and the outcomes there?
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Well, maybe we'll start with the panel itself in the tierings in Alberta,
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and then maybe we'll talk about, uh, Mr. Kenney's trip to Ottawa.
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Yeah. Yeah. So it's, uh, this fair deal panel was struck, uh, roughly a month ago,
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uh, by premier, uh, JC Kenney. It gave it a mandate to examine a number of issues on Alberta,
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asserting its own jurisdiction under areas that has control of under the constitution,
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but does not currently exercise. And, uh, this panel's got a number of eminent people on it who
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have, uh, started out on the fair deal panel roadshow across Alberta. It's gone through Edmonton
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and Red Deer so far. I'm not sure if it's hit any others, but those are the two I'm aware of. It hit
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Calgary last night and, uh, we were on the ground. It was, it was an interesting experience. It, um,
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there was a, there was a group, it's hard to say how many, because it was a large room, mostly full.
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And, uh, there was a group, uh, organized by some unions to show up and have, you know, kind of wave
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the flag a bit. And, uh, but the room was overwhelmingly dominated by, uh, people who,
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uh, to one degree or another, were all just competing to demonstrate how the degree to
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which they're pissed off and want a fair deal. Um, you know, so the, the union guys would come up
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and they would, they would say this, they had this bizarre thing. They would come and, uh, you know,
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for people who regularly decry nationalism, they would stand up there and declare themselves patriots.
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And, uh, say, I'm a Canadian patriot. How they are you? Uh, this entire exercise isn't just a bad
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idea. Uh, the ideas you're considering aren't just a bad idea. The, the exercise here is unpatriotic.
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Um, Alberta doing what Quebec has done is anti-Canadian, but I've never heard any of these
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people. And I recognize some of them. I haven't heard a single one of them ever mentioned about
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how it's unpatriotic for Quebecers to rule in their own house, but it is unpatriotic for Albertans to do so.
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And, uh, so these people seem to think the entire thing is been struck to ferment independence,
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Isn't it kind of the opposite? Isn't the whole idea to try to try to affirm a better place within
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Confederation so that the independence, the waning Wexit movement, uh, doesn't sort of gain ground and
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and gain strength? That's exactly as I see it. I mean, uh, these people are
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they're essentially just touching a completely different side of the elephant here. They, they,
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they seem to think any discussion of Alberta, uh, getting a better deal in Confederation is somehow
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Alberta trying to leave Confederation. What they don't understand is there is a critical mass in
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Alberta right now that is open to independence. Uh, there's not a clear majority ready to vote
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tomorrow for independence, but there is a, I think there's a clear majority who are open to the idea.
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Uh, quite a few are, I think ready to vote for it, but I think, uh, them added to the middle group,
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the reformers, I'll call them. Uh, there's a clear majority in Alberta that if they cannot
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achieve a place of, uh, of what they view as fairness in Alberta are ready to move towards independence.
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And I think Jason Kenney is terrified of this, uh, from a purely political and partisan perspective.
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Uh, he would be the direct loser of that because these people would be coming straight from the
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base of the United Conservative Party, uh, who are, who voted for him to go and fight Ottawa,
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get this fair deal. And if they don't get it, uh, there's going to be some hell to pay.
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Well, there's, there's a legacy issue as well, right? I mean, Jason Kenney doesn't want to go
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down in history as the, um, as the premier that allowed Canada to break up, right? I mean, who wants
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that on your resume, right? Yeah. I mean, these guys are going around saying, oh, he's a closet
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separatist trying to become the president of Alberta. Look, I, I think I know him better than
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most people who are not in his inner circle at least. And, uh, the man is a staunch federalist.
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He, I think he's Canadian first, Alberta second. Um, not to say that he's not going to stand up for
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Alberta, but he, he is very much a Canadian federalist and, uh, the same people, you know,
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the, the domestic left, I would call them in Alberta. Uh, they do exist. And, um, none of these
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people have ever said there's anything wrong with, uh, with Quebec standing up for itself.
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Um, in fact, they almost facilitate Quebec independence if they wanted to, like the NDP
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regularly talk about watering down the clarity act, make it even easier for them to leave.
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But if, uh, if Albertans talk about simply doing what we're allowed to under the constitution,
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respecting our jurisdiction, we're called traitors. So this is all not to stoke independence. This is
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to throw a wet blanket on it. And depending on what comes out of it, it might work. It might not.
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If, uh, if, if this panel comes out and says, uh, we're going to demand a triple E Senate,
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we're going to demand constitutional amendments on free trade and market access,
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we're going to demand constitutional amendments to, uh, outlaw equalization. Um, and then an
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Alberta on its own unilaterally withdraws from a bunch of areas of federal control, like police,
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pensions, et cetera. It might be enough to, uh, to keep things in check here. But, uh,
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I suspect though, that, uh, Jason Kenney knows he can't get a win from Ottawa on most of these things.
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And so he's going to, uh, he has been lowering the bar regularly here so that he could try to declare
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a win. And I, I, I don't think a few, a token win is going to, uh, to pacify Albertans who are
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demanding a feast at the expense of Ottawa right now. So help, help this British Columbian understand
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a little bit better. The, um, you know, from, from my perspective, uh, Alberta, affirming,
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affirming itself and taking the constitutional powers that it's already, that have already been given to
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it, um, as an entity. Uh, I don't, I don't see, I can't imagine anybody on this side of the coast,
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uh, this side of Alberta caring, thinking that's a problem, right? We have seen a lot of people
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ridicule the whole idea of Wexit or Albexit or whatever, whatever you want to call it. Um, the,
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the separatist movement. And, uh, and I've seen people, you know, crassly do, do so not understanding,
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obviously some of the frustration. Um, so how much of it is just political where the NDP is not in power
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in Alberta. The conservatives are trying to, uh, to do this, to try to repair this problem. And so
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they're just, uh, knee jerk, uh, going against what the conservatives are doing because it's politically
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they're their opponent. Well, as someone who's been an opposition in LA, I could tell you the instinct
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is to oppose. Sure. But, uh, there is, it's, I don't think the NDP is opposing just because
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they're the opposition here. I think they, uh, there is a long ideological tradition in what
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they're doing in Alberta. Uh, the left has always been outnumbered. Uh, the NDP are the only nominally
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left-wing party ever elected in Alberta. I mean, we had Allison Redford and, uh, and Jim Prentice who
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were ideologically moderate center left, but they were technically Tories. Um, but the left can't win
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elections in Alberta. And so it has from the very beginning of Alberta, the left has always favored
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greater federal control in Alberta because it's, for them, it's a way to achieve more ideological
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victories than they would have if Alberta controlled more of its own destiny. If Alberta is simply
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running its own way, it's going to be a vastly more conservative or libertarian, uh, political
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environment than it would be if it's sharing more powers with Ottawa, because Ottawa's center of
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gravity, regardless of who's in power is going to be always to the left of where Alberta is. And so,
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and so the, uh, and so our, our NDP friends here, uh, or liberals before them have always been in favor
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of more, more federal control here because not, not because they're necessarily more patriotic, but because
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it, uh, ensures better ideological outcomes for them. I see. So, so institutionally, uh, it's set up
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better for, for them politically. Yeah. And, and, you know, in other provinces where the center of gravity
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is not, uh, to the right of Ottawa, the center of gravity is to the left of Ottawa, uh, leftist parties
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favor more decentralization. In Quebec, the left favors a lot of decentralization in many respects,
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uh, because Quebec can do that on their own or in, um, you know, there's been cases in the nineties
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where, uh, where you had NDP governments in British Columbia, maybe you could speak about this, but
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governments in British Columbia that fought like hell with the federal government because, uh, when the
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Kretchen government was balancing budgets and whatnot, they actually kind of moved into the moderate center
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right. And yet the BC government wouldn't want to assert a lot more control over its own destiny,
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even though it was the NDP in charge there. Maybe, maybe you can speak about the British Columbia
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experience. Oh, I, I still have, uh, trauma and counseling about the British Columbia experience.
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I graduated high school when the NDP was in power, uh, during the period where they, uh, they went
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through three or four leaders all back to back with scandals and chaos. I have to say, ironically,
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and I'm a, I'm, you know, as you know, pretty conservative guy, a bit of a bit of a stranger
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in my, uh, my own house here in British Columbia, but, uh, um, I'm shocked at some of the things that
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the, uh, provincial government, the NDP provincial government has done here in the province, including
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balanced budgets, which, you know, if you'd asked me when they got elected, would there be balanced
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budgets for the next few years? I would have said absolutely no way that's going to happen. So,
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so they're, they've maybe learned the lesson from the past and recognize that
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if they have a hope of staying in power, they, they can't just, you know, do what they did in
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the nineties and go on wild, wild spending sprees. But yeah, a lot of these central versus decentralized
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the decisions are ideologically informed. Although I do think in Western Canada, there is just a natural
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in Western Canada and in Quebec, there is a knee jerk, uh, default position towards decentralization,
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but in Alberta, it has a very strong ideological strain because as I said, if Alberta is left to
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its own devices, it will almost always come to a more, uh, conservative outcome than if it has to
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share power with Ottawa. And Ontario is the center, so it doesn't matter. And then Atlantic Canada-
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Ontario doesn't care because it controls the federal government anyway.
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Yeah. And Atlantic Canada, they just, they just, they just want things to go nicely.
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Yeah. Everyone favors, uh, living at home when your parents are rich.
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That's right. All right. Uh, so, uh, Fair Deal panel, was there any, um, specific policy
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items that you think are worth highlighting? Some of the things that kind of stood out?
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Uh, I mean, the biggest cheers in that crowd, uh, were very clearly for people who stood up and were
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whole hog sovereignty. That, that got the biggest cheers. That being said, uh, and you know, there
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were quite a few, I think, independent supporters in that room. That being said, uh, many people who
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were not yet on that independence train, I think were cheering for them as a way of just expressing
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frustration. Um, you know, they would not, I wouldn't be, I don't think they'd be, many of
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those would not be considered solventists right now. Right. But, uh, I'd say the dominant vein
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of thought in that room, uh, if I was to take the aggregate, if that was possible, the aggregate thought
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was, uh, the Fair Deal panel better get a fair deal fast. And if Alberta can't get a fair deal,
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then those people who are in the federalist reformist camp, uh, have said pretty clearly that
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they're prepared to support independence. If that rubber ever meets the road, we won't know,
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but, uh, this will involve Alberta unilaterally doing many of the things that it can without
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permission from Ottawa. That is RCMP, uh, withdrawing from the RCMP, withdrawing from the Canada Revenue
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Agency, withdrawing from the Canada Pension Plan, all, a lot of these things, but it's also going to
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require Ottawa to reciprocate on Senate reform, on equalization, on market access. And, uh, I mean,
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maybe we can turn towards that now, but I don't think Ottawa is going to bite.
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Well, a lot of those things have been talked about for decades, you know, Senate reform is a
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fantastic example, right? It's been bandied about, I mean, the, the liberals now what they nominally,
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um, place nonpartisan people in, in, uh, the Senate. And that's, you know, that's considered to be
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their resolution for the Senate. Um, I, I can't see a world where we have any, uh, a triple E
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Senate, if you will, in the classic, um, Preston Manning, um, uh, form, uh, without,
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without opening up the constitution and all of the chaos that that, that is involved.
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It would clearly require constitutional reform and no party, even one as bold as say the PPC
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is not prepared to open the constitution because I mean, if you open the constitution and you look
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in that little box, you'll see Brian Mulgreens still crying in a corner. It is very dangerous.
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Yeah. But, uh, I'll, I'll tell you there, all of these solutions we're talking about repealing
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bills, C48 bill C, uh, 69, uh, equalization rebates, that bullshit term, all of these things,
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these are bandaid solutions and one-off. They're not going to fix the structural problems in this
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country unless there is constitutional reform. Yeah. It's necessary, but there is no way in hell
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we're ever going to get constitutional reform, but I think it's worth trying before we go whole
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hog sovereignty. So do you think that, um, if they were able to deal with some of the, you know,
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quote, low hanging fruit, uh, some of the, you know, some of the bills that you mentioned, uh,
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you know, perhaps, uh, the Alberta pension plan, some of, you know, the Alberta provincial police versus
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the RCP, if some of those things were to, uh, take shape, you know, relatively quickly, uh,
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would that be sufficient? Do you think amongst, amongst the moderate sovereignists, if you will,
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um, to, to quell them a little bit and, and perhaps, you know, make them a little more patient to
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maybe a longer process of, uh, constitutional reform? I, I, the problem with the constitution is,
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you know, Alberta thinks it just needs to go this way. And there's a very strong voices in Canada
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that think it needs to go exactly the opposite way. And it terrifies me actually to think that
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we open up the constitution and we end up with something far worse, right? Well, I'd say if we
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open up the constitution, we get something worse. It'd be very clear that the only option is independence
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at that time. Well, I suppose. Yeah. Anyway, do you, do you think that there's an appetite in Alberta
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amongst, uh, amongst, not obviously amongst the hardcore, but amongst, um,
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the dispossessed, uh, masses, if you will, that, uh, some of these things happen?
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Yeah. So Jason Kenney has built his provincial political career, building a case against Ottawa,
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and he built a very good case. And I think a legitimate one, it made a PC leader,
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it made a UCP leader, and it's made a premium. I think he's a, he's terrified right now though,
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that this fire that he's been fanning is out of control and it could come back to burn him
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unless he gets it under control and finds a way to satisfy that fire. And so what, you know,
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we'll take, for example, the issue around this equalization referendum everybody's heard about,
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uh, when he ran for UCP leadership, he said, there's going to be a referendum on equalization,
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period. And, um, uh, in Alberta, and he gave the, he gave the least, he didn't put a date on it,
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but he gave a very clear impression. This was going to be very soon after a provincial election. We're
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going to get this done. And he said, um, here's how Ottawa, Ottawa has to meet a number of conditions
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to avoid this. They have to completely overhaul equalization. We need Trans Mountain built. We
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need Energy East built. We need, uh, Bill 69, uh, repealed and, uh, or rewritten and Bill C 48
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repealed or rewritten. Fast forward. And sorry, Derek, can I just interject just for the audience?
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Uh, can you give us a synopsis? Oh, sorry. Yeah. Those are essentially the anti-pipeline bill and the,
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uh, tanker ban moratorium bill. So as time went on, I get into the election, started watering things down a
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bit. Now we're at the point where, uh, the premier has effectively more or less taken equalization off
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the table and replaced it with what he's dubbed an equalization rebate, the so-called fiscal
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stabilization, uh, fund, right? This is not an equalization rebate. It's not designed to be one.
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It has nothing to do with equalization. All provinces are eligible for it. If they get equalization or not,
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he's talking about reforming that with some retroactive payments. So Alberta sends more than 20
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billion dollars a year, net more to Ottawa than we get back. Yeah. Thanks for that.
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Yeah. Pure theory. Well, actually the British Columbia is a, is a net contributor. Oh, I know.
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Not by a large amount, but it's a net contributor. So, uh, you don't have to thank us. Quebec. No.
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Yeah. So, um, we send boat, we send trains, we send pipelines of money every year and we're not even
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going to try and fix that anymore. Now we're just going to settle for one and a half to two and a half
00:24:43.600
billion dollar one time payment from Ottawa to make us go away. There's no talk of energy East anymore.
00:24:50.240
There's no talk of repealing bill C 69 or C 48. They're talking about just being nicer about the
00:24:54.960
application of the regulations around it. All of these conditions have been dropped. Uh,
00:24:59.840
equalization has just been replaced with this rebate business and, uh, TMX I think is actually going to get
00:25:07.200
built. So I said, using my crystal ball here, what I fear is happening is he is moving the goalposts
00:25:15.360
back because he knows there's just no way Ottawa is ever, even under the Tories, there was no way we
00:25:20.000
were going to get any of these. Most of these things we would repeal the two, uh, anti pipeline and tanker
00:25:24.480
bills, but that would be it. Yeah. So he's moving the goalposts so that he'll be able to say,
00:25:30.480
uh, I won on equalization. No, he won't. He will have gotten a one time cash payout. Sure. Um,
00:25:38.160
and then we'll got TMX, but no energy East, no anything else. Right. And there'll be no more
00:25:44.080
pipelines ever built again under current legislation in Canada. So he wants to, I think, be able to
00:25:48.960
declare victory. Say I stood up to Ottawa and I got us a fair deal. It's not perfect. It's not
00:25:52.880
everything we want, but it's good enough. And then he's hoping that that will calm people down
00:25:57.840
among hardcore partisans who tend to believe anything their party says probably will. Right.
00:26:03.680
But I don't think it's going to put enough of a wet blanket on the fire that he has been
00:26:10.320
fanning for three years straight. Do you think that there, there's a case to be made about
00:26:15.360
incrementalism? You know, I mean, he is a, he is a Harper, um, you know, a prodigy. Right. And so,
00:26:24.560
uh, you know, Harper was always big on incremental, you know, we make some small changes and this is
00:26:30.160
the beginning, you know, reelect me, continue to, you know, um, put me in and I'll continue to make
00:26:35.760
those incremental changes. Um, or do you think there's just hard stops on some of those things?
00:26:40.160
Well, with all respect to Harper, his incrementalism failed miserably.
00:26:45.200
He had a decade in power. We ran the biggest deficits in the history of the country so we
00:26:50.400
could maintain the confidence in a minority parliament in this incrementalism. Uh, we ended
00:26:54.480
up owning some bloody car companies costing us a boatload of money. Um, we ended up with a smaller
00:27:01.280
military than we did when he took power. Um, and, uh, and he was still according to the left, by the way,
00:27:09.920
you know, the most extreme right wing. Yeah. Yeah. He's still portrayed as Genghis Khan. He does all
00:27:15.360
of these things. I couldn't vote for him by, by his last election because I, I only ever voted for
00:27:22.720
Stephen Harper because I believed there was a hidden agenda. There was no hidden agenda. And as soon as
00:27:28.400
I figured that out, I said, I'm out. I can't vote for this shit anymore. It's, it's interesting though,
00:27:32.720
right? Because you and I had huge amounts of trouble with, with Harper in the, in the end because,
00:27:39.840
you know, because he wasn't being conservative enough. Yet there was still these extremely loud
00:27:45.440
voices in Canada that, um, you know, he was just, he was just the most awful right wing.
00:27:50.960
They'll do that. They did it against Scheer. So frustrating.
00:27:53.760
Yeah. Who's owned by the dairy lobby and who campaigned on keeping the CBC and equalization,
00:27:58.960
all these things. They'll say that no matter what. So you may as well actually just stand by your
00:28:02.320
principles from time to time, but no Harper's incrementalism approach didn't get very much done
00:28:08.000
in office. In fact, we went backwards on many issues. Sure. Uh, we went incrementally in the
00:28:12.000
wrong direction. And then the few things we did get, we're done done in the first six months of
00:28:16.480
the Trudeau government anyway. So we got nothing right at the entire thing. So isn't it different
00:28:22.640
in Alberta though? Because, because Alberta is historically very, very rarely, uh, voted for anything
00:28:29.840
other than the conservative in name only perhaps, but conservative option on the, on the ballot.
00:28:35.040
And, and so there's a lower risk around the incrementalism.
00:28:39.360
Uh, well, provincially, I mean, they're making some pretty bold changes in, I think a positive
00:28:45.360
direction, at least in some cases and in other cases, they're, they're pretty tepid. Uh, but when
00:28:49.840
it comes to the Alberta or the Western question about Alberta getting a fair deal on Saskatchewan,
00:28:54.480
getting a fair deal, I don't think incrementalism is really the way to go. I think you've got the
00:29:00.320
energy right now. You've got public support for it. I think it's very clear that we need to put
00:29:09.120
forward a whole package of reforms, of constitutional reforms. So forget this equalization referendum
00:29:15.840
two years from now, let's hold a referendum in six months from now on a whole package of
00:29:19.680
constitutional demands for Senate reform, for market access, for, uh, outlawing equalization,
00:29:26.160
these things. And we send it to Ottawa and the other provinces. And if we can get that deal,
00:29:31.120
then frankly, I mean, even those who are supportive of independence, most of them will
00:29:36.800
acknowledge that we could probably live with this, even if it's not great, even if we're outvoted off and
00:29:41.120
we should be protected enough within a federation. But if, as I would expect, uh, Ottawa rejects it,
00:29:47.440
Quebec rejects it. And then I think Alberta would be wise then to hold a second vote on independence.
00:29:54.080
And at that time, I think, uh, people will be off the fence about believing reform is possible,
00:30:00.160
which is why I, I, which is all comes down to why I don't think, uh, Jason Kenney's equalization
00:30:05.440
referendum is ever going to get help. Cause we're going to hold, if we hold that referendum,
00:30:09.440
we're going to vote, vote 80 to 85% for it. We're going to send it to Ottawa almost unanimously.
00:30:15.040
And Ottawa is going to tell us to pound sand. And then Albertans are going to be left with two
00:30:20.880
options. And Jason Kenney does not like those two options, surrendering or independence. Right.
00:30:25.920
He wants to be somewhere in between that. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Hmm. Wow. Quite the dynamics.
00:30:31.680
And, uh, of course, Jason Kenney, uh, went to Ottawa, had a nice sit down meeting with our illustrious
00:30:39.360
prime minister, Justin Trudeau, um, who, you know, is just making us look remarkable on the world stage.
00:30:46.000
Um, we should all be proud. Justin Trudeau's, um, legacy in Canada. I'm, I'm kidding, by the way,
00:30:53.440
if you're, that's the concern he looked on your face. He has left a black mark.
00:31:01.680
Um, so we'll talk about the prime minister another time because, uh, uh, it's going to be very hard to
00:31:07.520
play devil's advocate in that one. Uh, but yeah, so, um, so sat down with, with, uh, nothing in
00:31:14.800
particular, lots of platitudes, um, you know, friendly handshakes, uh, you know, is this going
00:31:21.040
anywhere? What are, what are your thoughts? Uh, well, it was pretty different. Uh, uh, Rick Bell's
00:31:27.520
column in the Calgary sun today, uh, opened with, and I saw Rick Bell at the fair deal panel last night.
00:31:32.960
He, he was kind of beside himself. He can't believe that he thinks this is a different Jason than,
00:31:37.280
uh, than he knows. And, um, you know, it's a long way from, uh, Jason Kenney comparing,
00:31:43.760
uh, Trudeau to the intellectual depth of a finger bowl to what he said yesterday, which is, uh, I think
00:31:52.240
that they just, I forget the exact word, but it was essentially, it was cordial and they had a
00:31:56.160
conversation and the prime minister said, he's listening. You know, it wasn't that, you know,
00:32:00.400
Rachel Notley fawning like a fangirl over him. I mean, it was nothing, nothing so disgusting as that.
00:32:06.080
Right. But it was, uh, a very different change of tone. And, uh, and I think feeds very much into
00:32:14.880
what I've been arguing here, which is that Jason Kenney is trying to move the goal posts,
00:32:22.320
make us drop some of these demands that he's been talking about for three years and, uh, try to bring
00:32:29.680
the temperature down because it is, it is so hot right now, at least in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
00:32:36.000
And if he can't get these things that he's been talking about, and he, I think he must know in
00:32:41.920
his heart, there's no way to get, there's no way to get nine tenths of them. And, uh, and so he,
00:32:47.040
so he's got to manage expectations downwards right now. And that means, uh, if not being warm with the
00:32:54.480
federal government, at least being cordial and cooperative rather than confrontation.
00:32:58.560
And push back a little bit on that. I mean, isn't that, isn't that kind of, I mean, you can't,
00:33:03.200
you can't go into a meeting, um, diplomatically with, with the prime minister and, you know,
00:33:09.120
have the knife ready to stab into his back. You have to, you have to come with, with some, um,
00:33:16.160
you know, some, I don't know what the word diplomacy, right? It's probably the best word.
00:33:20.720
Scott Moe did a couple of weeks ago. He went in and met with Trudeau and came out and said,
00:33:25.360
the guy has got no idea. Uh, he doesn't understand where we are. Um, that's not to say premier Moe was
00:33:30.800
right and Kenny was wrong or vice versa. Uh, I, I think. I just, I just wonder, you know, um,
00:33:38.320
you know, you're going to get anywhere, right? I mean, I mean, if you want to, if you want to play ball,
00:33:42.800
you have to at least be cordial. And I, I agree with you. I don't think, I don't think fawning
00:33:46.720
over him or making unnecessary compliments is the way to go either, but at least, at least be, um,
00:33:52.800
kind to their face. I know. I, I, I agree. I mean, if, I mean, when, I mean, Reagan would meet Gorbachev
00:33:59.680
and, and, and I mean, they've got nukes pointed at each other, but they would still be reasonable,
00:34:04.960
diplomatic and, and treat each other as men and equals. And I would expect the premier of Alberta,
00:34:11.360
regardless of our feelings or his feelings about Trudeau to do the same. We, I, I think that's
00:34:16.800
fine. We don't expect him to go in and, uh, you know, flip the couch over and scream. That's not
00:34:22.240
very productive. Or wash his feet, you know, or the, or somewhere, you know, it's going to be
00:34:26.000
somewhere in between, right? Yeah. But, um, but the language was radically different from even
00:34:31.840
previous meetings that he's had with, uh, Justin Trudeau. And I think this is about trying to lower the
00:34:36.880
temperature and, uh, manage expectations downwards because there is no way that, uh, as much as he
00:34:45.680
might try, there is no way that, uh, we are going to get the vast majority of the things that JC
00:34:52.000
campaign, uh, Kenny campaigned on getting from Ottawa. So, so if you're, we talked to already
00:34:57.040
about managing expectations downward and I, I, I can see, I think you're right. I think that's,
00:35:02.080
I think that's just the real politic of it. Right. But, uh, lowering the temperature,
00:35:07.040
I think it's actually probably really sensible. Uh, you know, if you want to get things done and
00:35:12.000
you have to, you have to lower the temperature a little bit and then get into the meat of it.
00:35:15.520
Right. Depends what you're trying to get done. If you're trying to get a couple of small victories
00:35:20.240
and not let this independence movement get out of control, then that is exactly what you want to do.
00:35:25.360
Right. But you know, if you're a bit spicier and you, uh, you want
00:35:31.920
wholesale reform, the kind of reform that Jason Kenney campaigned on getting, then that temperature
00:35:37.120
needs to be hot. But he, he, he's a smart politician and he recognizes he's not going to be able to get
00:35:42.560
those. Exactly. Yeah. And it's style, right? And I think it's style and it comes back to that
00:35:47.360
incrementalist approach. You know, Jason Kenney is, you know, is not, is not Derek Fildebrand.
00:35:53.600
He's, uh, he's got his, he's, he's got his style and, and, um, uh, I think, I think he's being fairly
00:36:00.080
pragmatic about it. Um, you know, I don't, uh, I don't know how much he really, like you said,
00:36:05.840
I don't know how much realistically he can get done from his agenda. And I think he's smart guy.
00:36:10.320
He knows the same thing. Right. And so, so, you know, lowering the temperature, having constructive
00:36:15.520
talks, maybe ticking a couple of boxes. Um, you know, as, as politics goes, uh, probably a pretty
00:36:21.520
sensible approach at this point. If, if there is something Jason Kenney knows, it's politics and it's,
00:36:27.600
it's this dealing and, uh, you know, the whole, the whole God awful mess of politics. He's,
00:36:33.840
he's very good at that kind of maneuvering. Um, but it is, it is a question that I, I can't tell
00:36:41.520
you for sure if it will be enough. Can he manage those expectations downwards? Because if he can't
00:36:48.000
manage those expectations downwards and people still expect him to deliver what he promised to deliver,
00:36:53.280
um, he then finds himself in a very dangerous situation politically. If this independence
00:37:00.160
movement in Alberta ever got out of, uh, out of the Legion basement and got into, uh, got,
00:37:05.680
got organized in any serious way, which it is not yet. Well, on that note, I think we can wrap up
00:37:11.600
this, uh, official first, the, uh, the pipeline, our weekly national affairs program, Derek Fildebrand,
00:37:18.000
publisher of the Western standard from Calgary. Thank you so much. And, uh, I'm Paul Holmes,
00:37:24.560
the digital editor at the Western standard, uh, coming to you from Victoria, British Columbia,