THE PIPELINE： NDP faces financial apocalypse
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Summary
In this episode of The Pipeline, Western Standard Opinion Editor Nigel Hannaford, Publisher Derek Fildebrandt, and Senior Columnist Corey Morgan talk about what's going on in Alberta, and what it means for the future of the United Conservative Party and Alberta independence.
Transcript
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I'm Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard, and you're watching The Pipeline.
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I'm joined by our usual posse, Western Standard Opinion Editor, Nigel Hannaford.
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And Western Standard Senior Alberta Columnist, Corey Morgan.
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We've dropped the cosplay cowboy garbs back to our regular office suits here.
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Well, the NDP, the federal NDP, is facing total and complete financial apocalypse following
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Uh, there's all sorts of reasons now why that party faces bankruptcy.
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It's not as crazy as an idea as you might think.
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Uh, Alberta, this is a scoop in the Western Standard.
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Alberta UCP members, uh, at the constituency level, have put forward a ton of policy resolutions
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to be debated at the party's next convention coming in November to, uh, make the UCP officially
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a supporting, uh, make the UCP officially support Alberta independence.
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Uh, that would be a pretty radical change for, uh, for a nominally federalist party to be
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Um, so we're going to be talking about what's happening there and what that's going to mean
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within the conservative, uh, party, the conservative movement in Alberta and the independence movement
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as these, as the Venn diagram shrinks ever closer over top as they become closer, at least
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Uh, we're going to start first with Danielle Smith's roadshow.
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I think those things will dovetail nicely into each other.
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Uh, Nigel, Danielle Smith, uh, hit the road last night, I think in a Red Deer?
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In a Red Deer it was, with 450 people attending.
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So, last month, uh, the Premier announced a province-wide consultation to gather public
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input, as she put it, on how to strengthen Alberta's autonomy and redefine its role in Canada.
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Now, I say as she put it because although she's seeking public input,
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she is also delivering a message, and she is inviting people, I think, to tell her how much
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they agree with her when it comes to, you know, um, things like the Alberta pension plan, immigration,
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the provincial police force, uh, frankly, whether, and this is, uh, this is what I've got a special heart for,
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is, uh, whether, uh, Alberta should collect income taxes and send what is due to Ottawa,
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or continue with the same, uh, process where Ottawa collects it and gives us what we think we should have.
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This is an idea worth pursuing, uh, because it just once more demonstrates the, uh, the, you know,
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the uniqueness of the, in Quebec's case of Quebec, and it could be for Alberta.
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Anyway, uh, the meeting quickly turned to independence, Alberta independence,
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and I don't imagine the Premier was disappointed by that, but building the case for a strong Alberta,
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including independence if necessary, to strengthen her hand when she comes to deal with the federal government,
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as she must in due course, because the six months that she gave him, gave Mr. Carney is starting to get a little bit close.
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So, look, they, um, that was last night in Red Deer.
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Tonight, it's as we speak, it's in Edmonton, and, uh...
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You're not going through that whole list, are you?
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Well, you know, I mean, the people in Fort McMurray probably care, uh, but, it's, but they're taking a hiatus for about a month.
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Edmonton, Scrabari, Lloyd Minister, that's, uh, that's the August show,
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Medicine ad, Lethbridge and Airdrie in September, Grand Prairie too, back to Calvary for later in September.
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So, look, these are, these are actually quite important meetings, and, uh, I, I would, um,
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urge people to pay attention to what's being said, and maybe go to one if you can.
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Uh, Corey, a lot of people have, I think, fairly compared this to Jason Kenney's Fair Deal panel.
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Um, you know, that came right after, I think it was 2019, uh, federal election.
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Yeah, it was 2019, no, uh, provisional election.
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No, it was 2019 provisional, then there was federal right after, I think.
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Yeah, it's okay, right after a federal election where, uh, independence under the name Wexit
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at that time had flared up, it became a big problem for him within the UCP, as a huge number
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of UCP members are sympathetic, if not outright supportive, of independence.
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Um, you know, Kenney being an un, he's an un, he declared himself an unconditional federalist.
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There is no circumstance under which he ever supports independence.
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Um, but he, he realized he needed some kind of relief, uh, release valve, uh, because
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there was all the steam pent up, and if he didn't find a way for people to blow it off,
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That was, that had already been an election promise anyway.
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That was just kind of rehashed again in the report.
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Um, uh, this time though, Kenny, uh, the premier herself is chairing it.
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Um, how is it, in what ways do you think this could be substantially different in any way
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from the Kenny Fear Deal panels that didn't really leap much?
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Yeah, well, I mean, I think most realize that Kenny's efforts were just a deferral and an event,
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but he had no intention of really following through with any of those.
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Let's just make them feel like they've been listened to and we'll move on with government
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how we will, or to be a little fair, maybe he had bigger plans.
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COVID did hit and government priorities kind of changed all over the place.
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But either way, the panel went nowhere to, you know, to, to speak of, I think with premier
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Smith chairing it herself, that was a purposeful effort.
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It's very rare when a sitting premier will commit to a whole bunch of public hearings.
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I was saying rare in that, uh, I'd have to research.
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I wouldn't say never, but it's certainly not common.
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And, uh, I think she, she realizes that she's owning this.
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If nothing comes to this, it's going to be on her lap.
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So I think she's serious with where she wants to go on this kind of, as you said in the opening
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too, though, it's kind of like they're, they just want to get answers to the questions or
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They already have, uh, something as interesting as she's talking about these, what they conclude
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will likely be going to a referendum next year.
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So there's probably a number of questions they already have in mind.
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And it's going to be put to a general question sometime within a year, I think, which is radically
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different than, than, uh, what, what the, uh, fair deal panels were.
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Uh, Nigel, Smith has already talked about putting a series of other sovereignty related, not
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independence, but sovereignty related questions on the ballot that would.
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Probably go in conjunction with the expected independence referendum.
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Uh, you know, the independence referendum, that being one that is likely to come from
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citizens initiative, uh, petitions to get that on the ballot.
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Is there any grand strategy in that, that, eh, maybe she doesn't think independence will
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succeed, but then I've seen critics of hers, uh, on the left say, well, she's going to use,
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you know, these things would never pass on their own, like a pension plan.
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And then police, uh, taxes, that kind of thing.
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What if independence is on the ballot at the same time, they'll seem more moderate and
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And then there's the other side that I'm a bit more partial to.
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And I think having those things on the ballot makes it less likely that independence succeeds
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because then people can, they can check a number of these sovereignty within Canada
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Um, uh, she wants to, she, what she doesn't want is to go into a meeting with her federal
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opposite numbers and they are able to turn to her and say, I don't know why you're here.
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The people you're representing don't want this.
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So she needs a good showing in these, uh, in these meetings.
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She needs to have plenty of public support for the positions that she's adopted.
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And the relationship between the, the referendum question and these other things is probably
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not the one you, the one that you're hoping for, but it is, if, if the one doesn't go well,
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And from, from a political point of view, that's a win for the premier, not the big win,
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Well, of course, she's also talking in, uh, this Alberta next panel, the roadshow about
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a suite of constitutional amendments, uh, you know, to the federal constitution.
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Uh, I'm still unsure what the strategy is there because she's a smart lady.
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She knows that there's virtually no chance that the rest of the country, primarily in the
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East, Eastern and Central Canada, that they're ever going to agree to any substantive constitutional
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One, because they'd be giving up tons of power.
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Uh, PEI is not going to give up having such a more representation in Parliament almost
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than Alberta with, uh, you know, the population of like Airdrie.
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Say the Nova Scotia, Brunswick, um, and then Quebec is, you know, if, if, if we're talking
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constitution, Quebec, they're going to open up their crazy grab bag of ideas and say,
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okay, well, we want some French supremacist stuff.
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Uh, people in Lethbridge can only speak French.
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Um, you know, they're going to come to their crazy ideas that there's a 0% chance that English
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I'm really guessing, but I think they're being quite strategic and tactical with this.
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So this will finish, uh, what I believe that towards the end of September, there'll be
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And as we said, this is probably predetermined.
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They'll have the report that comes out and part of it will say, oh, well, look at that.
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And our hearings, we found that most people support these proposed constitutional ideas.
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So we'll wrap it up in a pretty little bow and submit it to Ottawa and the provinces and
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say, look, this is what we're asking for in Alberta.
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Well, by Christmas time, most of the provinces and whatnot will at best have ignored it.
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At worst, some will just say, roll it up and stick it back up wherever you pulled it from.
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And that's where she's well positioned to say, look, see, that's where we're going to get
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And now we've got a referendum coming next year with this, this, this, this, and this
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on it that don't require constitutional changes.
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So I think they're setting it up knowing it's going to fail, but at least to demonstrate
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to Albertans that if you want to keep firing these guns at a target that's invulnerable,
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So it's just one more way to show and she'll have a mandate say, well, we, we offered, this
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I mean, I'm thinking that she's setting up, she's let them say, screw you to us so that
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to strengthen her case, to get these other facts.
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I mean, she knows that the, the, the amending formula for the Canadian constitution is seven
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provinces with two thirds of the population and you're never going to get that kind of
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I couldn't get it back in, when we were, they were negotiating the Charlottetown or the Meech
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Lake Accords, um, it's actually held up on the indigenous, one indigenous vote there.
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And I, Corey's nailed it precisely there that once it is very clear, because there's
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visible reminder to a new generation of Albertans that you, you can't get constitutional change
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in Canada, then she's free to go on to the, to plan B.
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Well, that segues nicely, um, into what's happening within the UCP on the independence question.
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So this was, uh, this was a story, our reporter, uh, Tula, uh, Mizzoulam, uh, broke, uh, last
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week that, uh, there have been something in the neighborhood of 50 odd resolutions from individuals
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Um, well, the, the way, the way the policy conferences, uh, for the UCP and Alberta work
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is, uh, individual members and constituency associations can all submit policies.
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And then before they go to be voted on at the convention, the different constituency
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associations sit down and they rank how much they like each one.
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So that essentially the ones with the most agreement go to the front of the lineup.
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Um, and then theoretically, you know, if, if the convention spent 10 seconds on each, then
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you'd go through all 300 resolutions or something to get there.
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More likely they get to 30, 35, something like that ranked in order of what's got the most
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There is a, I think, a certainty that independence is going to get ranked high enough.
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Uh, it could be damn near the first question that'll come up.
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Um, now I guess the question that the UCP is wrestling with right now is, um,
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I don't think they're looking at not allowing it there.
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You'd probably get a special general meeting called essentially to recall the board of that
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Um, but they're either going to have it at the convention or what they're doing is
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giving consideration to right now, uh, uh, having essentially a party plebiscite on the
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policy as, as a standalone rather than having it at the convention itself.
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I think I'd argue probably is a, would be a big step forward for, I mean, uh, separate
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from the interest, the partisan interest of the UCP, which this would be very divisive.
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Uh, I mean, it'd be a, be an earthquake success for the independence movement to essentially
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capture the governing party of Alberta at a convention.
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So the, again, it's creating the sense of occasion.
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I mean, you could put these, uh, you could put these resolutions at the front of the regular
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party meeting and anybody who's ever been to one of those meetings knows this would be
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So it's, uh, it's, uh, you can drink a lot of warm water while you're waiting for those
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things to develop, but this would capture the attention, but even more would it capture the
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attention if it became his own separate, uh, convention.
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Because then again, when you're facing the federal government's representatives, they're saying,
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this is so important to all burdens that we, the, that this 5,000 person convention came
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And you're going to find that I think I'd be very surprised if the independence movement
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And this is about, I think it's about 124,000 people, isn't it?
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I don't know what it did lately, it was after past campaigns.
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It's higher during leadership races and when there's nominations going on.
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So it's probably a little lower than that right now, but it's strong.
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I mean, it's, it's a six figure number, I'm sure.
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Um, well, I didn't know what they're not talking about, I think having a separate
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convention, it'd be technically a special general meeting that's separate, but that'd
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be like when the UC, uh, the PC and wild rose members voted technically in a special general
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So you could vote on the phone, you could vote online, you could vote in mail, that kind
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So I think it's talking about being more of a referendum.
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There'll probably be a physical location somewhere where, you know, people gather, but
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So you would, it wouldn't be 5,000 people, uh, voting, actually, wasn't the last convention
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It was the biggest political convention convention in Canadian history.
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And this was just for a provincial party in the fourth largest problem.
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You still managed to get a quarter of them drunk in the hospitalities.
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But Corey, uh, if polls are to be believed in, they're pretty consistent on this point.
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Um, it's not a majority of Albertans, but it's two thirds of UCP voters.
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And traditionally members of a party tend to be more strided, more ideological, uh, more
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I, if this goes to a vote of UCP members, I have a hard time seeing how this is anything
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So for them to say, you can't have it on at policy, especially with so many, but having
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been submitted already as, as was scooped, uh, would just be, if you want to see somebody
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Cause you'll finally have the grouse and say, look, you see, that's the only way for
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So you have to, that's why UCP has to allow it personally.
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And just speaking my own point of view, I think the members should reject entrenching
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it into party, but that's where that discussion can come.
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And then people will read in different things with it.
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Why, why do you think the members should not make that party policy?
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Because you make that party policy and you got to remember three, two thirds of the UCP
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voters support independence, but this is a very polarizing issue.
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It's not one where there's much fuzziness with people.
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And when you've, and when you've got 0% of the supporters, the NDP who support independence,
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And you look at the electoral math and that next general election can look really, really
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bad when you have actually carrying independence in your policy set.
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Again, I think that's where the tactic of being able to say, we're putting it in the
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If they initiate a referendum, they can have that vote.
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And that's where it belongs and not within the party.
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Cause then you can rip your own party very dangerously, or at least your base of support
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Not every UCP MLA is necessarily pro independence.
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So no, I mean, even if I'm a Joe say, yeah, the Lord do if that party makes it policy.
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And we know MLAs are bound by party policy as a longer discussion of things, but I would
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hope there'd be a spirited discussion and maybe along those lines of, again, I mean,
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this is as pro independence as we've ever seen from a governing party in this province.
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I was VP policy for the Wildrose for a number of terms.
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And what, but you do, there's, there's no doubt there's mechanisms to try and get policies
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to go the way you want them and the way you don't without, you know, directly interfering
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So with the order you set them in, I don't think they could put that question at the top
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You're going to put it down a ways where you'll reach it.
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No, it's actually, but it's, it's, it's determined by how they get ranked.
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The party itself does not get determined what order they're in.
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Because given the ability, I mean, I would have say made it question 10, but maybe put
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That'll make the independence people feel a little happier.
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Those sorts of things, but I think it's determined more by rankings.
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Well, and it might be, I'm just speaking from how it was before, but how you try to adjust
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policy discussions so that maybe by then there's been a lot of debate on it and members in
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the room are starting to think on things a little further that maybe we could put this
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to referendum rather than entrenching in party policy.
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But I mean, that's, they can't ignore the question, but I do think it would be very dangerous
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if they actually put it into party policy and it really could bode poorly in a general
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I mean, if that becomes the defining issue of election, it gives the NDP a better shot of
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Ninety-five percent of NDP voters are federalists.
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Only five percent support independence as New Democrats, whereas with UCP voters, it's a
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bigger pool of voters, you know, the more popular, but it's two-thirds.
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It's not like what the tax rate should be or what's in the curriculum.
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And as an independence supporter, I mean, I want to see a referendum and I want to
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see as strong a showing as humanly possible in it.
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I still think unless things change pretty dramatically, which is possible in this next
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eight months, it's still going to be hard to get over 50% in the referendum.
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But if you come in at 40% and then the NDP get in, is it going to be a decade before we
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Because, you know, the next chance you get, you're not going to get that chance at all
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I'm just saying, will the members think that strategically?
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The thing is, you're going to have huge political machines on the Federalist side in this referendum.
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You're going to have whatever small machines are for the Federal and the Federal NDP and
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the Liberals, which in a few pockets, there's something, but nothing big.
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But the Conservative Party of Canada is going to do everything it can.
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They have the most to lose politically with independence.
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I'm so committed to it being a grassroots individuals or, you know, groups and movements
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But the Conservative Party of Canada is going to be here fighting against it, surely.
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Yeah, and you'll have the Alberta NDP opposing it.
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I don't see any chance of winning unless you've got at least one major political machine on
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And that means the only one in town is the UCP.
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Or the machine has to be something that isn't a party.
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And the independence movement, I mean, I'm pretty impressed with what some of the folks
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have done so far, but they pale in comparison to a well-oiled political machine like
00:23:47.260
You'd be bringing a BB gun to an artillery fight if you're going against a Conservative
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Party of Canada, the NDP, the Federal Liberals, the Federal NDP, and then the UCP just sits
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You're going to have 80% of the UCP members, operatives.
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I mean, some of it is allowing perhaps the freedom of MLAs to come out in support or
00:24:17.980
But I just feel nervous with the party entrenching that outright in the policy book.
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That just, that turns you into a single issue party.
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And I tell you, you better win that next referendum then because you aren't winning the next election.
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I mean, having the ability, those 87 constituencies that are organized, campaign managers, volunteer
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But I, I'm just really fearful of the consequences of the party taking on an independence stance
00:24:53.940
It's, it's, uh, give us the means and don't jump into the freight, but it could be unavoidable.
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I do agree that it would be, uh, I mean, it, it, it gives the NDP a better fighting chance
00:25:05.320
of the next election if the UCP is officially wedded to independence.
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But by the time we go through that referendum, I, I feel like it's already going to be kind
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of baked into the cost that the UCP will be widely perceived as pretty much an independence
00:25:21.060
There's no, they're going to be labeled no matter what they, they have already amended
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the legislation to make citizens initiative, uh, referenda on any issue, but this is obviously
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Um, they will have amended the legislation to make it possible.
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Um, she's invites them to be a part of her party.
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Is, wouldn't it be baked into the political math anyway, by the time we get to the next
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election, we've been through a referendum, uh, win, lose, or draw, whatever, whatever
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happens in that referendum, the UCP, I mean, like I said, we win.
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I mean, no one's going to then trust the NDP to take over.
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It means I'd be like putting labor in charge right after Brexit.
00:26:03.160
So, uh, but let's, let's say there's a referendum loss.
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Cause the math doesn't favor independence right now, uh, very well, but if there's a referendum
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loss and then, and then we're going into an election with UCP versus NDP and that's, you
00:26:16.600
know, say a year out from there, isn't it already kind of just baked into the math?
00:26:20.880
Well, I know she said, the UCP comes out, Peter Smith comes out and says, well, we had
00:26:26.840
the referendum, it lost, uh, you know, that's what happens when you have a referendum.
00:26:31.600
You ask people what they think, they tell you what you think.
00:26:33.760
Now we move on, uh, however, let Ottawa be under no misapprehensions about the strength
00:26:40.840
and depth of feeling in Alberta about how interrelations between Ottawa and Alberta have gone.
00:26:51.600
Meanwhile, we still have the same set of demands and we're continuing to press them because
00:27:03.520
So, you know, we go through a referendum, let's say the referendum was not successful.
00:27:07.960
And then a year out from there, we're in an Alberta general election versus the UCP versus
00:27:14.240
Um, you know, Corey raises the point, I think fairly that while the UCP, if it officially adopts
00:27:20.280
independence, it's then going to split off voters.
00:27:24.560
But even if it doesn't officially support independence as a policy, I think voters will
00:27:30.160
still, from both sides, will still say you're the independent party and the NDP are the unconditional
00:27:37.080
Well, I, I, I, I'm actually not sure it actually changes the electoral math, uh, that much once
00:27:45.400
I don't know here, but the UCP would be regarded as a home and a haven for, uh, traitors and people
00:27:57.180
And that's because they would be, wouldn't they?
00:28:01.140
If I, if the majority of the UCP membership actually does favor independence of some kind,
00:28:08.240
well, it doesn't matter whether it becomes party policy, doesn't matter whether it becomes
00:28:12.700
a, um, whether the referendum passes, the UCP has defined itself on that issue.
00:28:20.720
And that is probably the issue that most people care about.
00:28:27.760
Uh, you know, there's a referendum, it's not successful, a year from there.
00:28:32.020
Does it actually matter with voters at that point?
00:28:34.360
Uh, if the UCP officially supported independence or not, because I think everyone's going to
00:28:40.040
A couple of things will depend on, I guess, how well the referendum fared.
00:28:42.860
You know, if, if you were looking at, it was 46, 47%, you know, there's some safe ground
00:28:48.420
that, that they can still cultivate as an independence party and, and still sit on.
00:28:51.920
If it came in at 25, you know, but they've got it entrenched in their policies and independence
00:28:58.180
party, uh, they're caught in a rock and a hard place.
00:29:03.100
I mean, you don't want to remove policy that members have entrenched, but at the same time,
00:29:06.320
if you're coming towards an election, you want to change the channel.
00:29:09.320
You'll want the next election to be on something else besides the independence.
00:29:12.740
I guess as Nigel said, well, there, we did put it to the citizens of Alberta and that
00:29:17.440
trumps the members' choices in this, you know, the party favors this, the members favor
00:29:21.340
this, but at this time, that's not where Alberta is.
00:29:25.040
And we're going to continue to govern and stand up and all the rest of the things, but
00:29:28.740
they'll have to carefully distance themselves from that 26% or whatever, while not alienating
00:29:35.960
Uh, but the, and as you said, they're going to wear it anyway.
00:29:39.280
It doesn't matter what, if you, shouldn't they then just own the policy, get on and ride
00:29:45.760
Well, no, cause it's not a hundred percent of them.
00:29:47.620
So it's not fair for them wearing it and you shouldn't wear it.
00:29:50.320
If, if I know as frustrating as it may be, uh, just because you're being labeled with
00:29:56.760
Well, I mean, put yourself in a position of a UCP MLA who actually does not support independence.
00:30:03.160
I don't know how many people there are like that, but if you say, okay, that's it, this
00:30:07.860
This is what we're going through in the next election.
00:30:10.900
A person who does not support independence is going to think, well, do I actually want
00:30:14.920
to run for this party and even before the, uh, before the election is called, they may
00:30:21.940
be asking themselves, do I even want to support it while I am a sitting MLA?
00:30:30.000
I'm not resigning my seat because I need the money, but I am not going to be, uh, identified
00:30:44.480
It's not what my voters want and it's not what I want.
00:30:47.300
So now you've got a situation where the NDP could conceivably contrive a situation that
00:30:55.920
The government falls, you go to a snap election.
00:30:58.700
So I, I think owning the, making it official and owning the policy and putting your MLAs who
00:31:05.080
are either federalists or sitting on the sidelines and uncomfortable and making them make a choice
00:31:11.860
And I'm coming from a position of a man who I want independence.
00:31:19.140
I've written quite clearly on that and that's where I stand.
00:31:21.620
But I also just always want to remain realistic of what might be our best path, best path to
00:31:27.800
And there's a whole lot of different branches and pitfalls we can hit on the way we're kind
00:31:35.060
We're, uh, you know, as close as we've seen in a generation.
00:31:39.380
So, I mean, I, you also don't want to lose this opportunity for fear of failure because it's
00:31:45.940
sitting back and being overly cautious, but I'm just also want to make sure that we always
00:31:52.480
I agree, but I, I see, uh, being timid and just the UCP being totally neutral as an institution
00:32:07.980
And, and there's a, I give it a one in three shot of succeeding.
00:32:14.780
It's not the good money, but I think, I think it's in the realm of possibility.
00:32:22.520
Um, but without the UCP throwing its full institutional weight into the fight, the chance
00:32:29.800
of winning goes down to near zero because you're just going to have every other major political
00:32:33.980
machine in Alberta all against you and you're not going to defeat the combined forces of
00:32:39.920
the conservative party of Canada, the liberal party of Canada, the federal NDP, the Alberta
00:32:43.940
NDP, much of the business establishment, the union establishment, all of them are going
00:32:53.920
You gotta keep in mind, this is a campaign of yes and no.
00:32:57.440
Uh, a general election is a campaign of 87 candidates and a thousand different policies.
00:33:06.320
I mean, I, again, I know if I, if you had the UCP actively campaigning, putting all those
00:33:10.420
resources would definitely be an advantage, but it's not quite the same disadvantage as
00:33:14.400
says we're going to dive into a general election with a whole bunch of independent candidates
00:33:20.040
As I was saying, that was kind of actually slightly talking myself out of my position because
00:33:24.080
the Charlottetown accord, the federal PCs in support was the federal PCs, the federal
00:33:30.340
liberals, the federal NDP, every single provincial government and every single provincial opposition,
00:33:36.920
the entire business establishment, the entire labor establishment, anyone who was, anyone
00:33:45.460
And then there was like the reform party, which had one seat in parliament and they, and they
00:33:58.120
The establishment was certainly opposed, but the citizens felt otherwise.
00:34:01.780
You gotta remember if the establishment overplays, that's the sort of thing that makes an
00:34:08.440
Uh, you know, it can be dangerous if it seems like you got the world against you and you,
00:34:15.920
No, I wouldn't recommend to the premier that she make it part of party policy.
00:34:21.100
Well, she's absolutely sure that she's got the majority of voting Albertans on her side.
00:34:28.660
I think to get that majority though, you're going to need the UCP.
00:34:30.820
It's a difficult chicken and egg thing going on, I guess you could say.
00:34:37.380
Well, uh, we'll switch gears back to Ottawa a bit here.
00:34:42.960
Uh, so, uh, Fred Delori is a former executive, uh, director of the Federal Consumers Party during
00:34:51.400
He's got an interesting, uh, sub stack, uh, page and, um, it's, it's a few, it's like a
00:34:57.540
week or two old now, but, uh, uh, Corey, I think you were going to get it.
00:35:00.820
We're going to put this on as one of our topics today was, was his story.
00:35:04.580
Um, kind of just give us the background on that with the, um, pretty perilous financial
00:35:12.200
I mean, cause it kind of slides under the radar for people cause it's a bit wonky.
00:35:15.060
I mean, people don't necessarily understand how the funding works for federal political
00:35:18.260
parties and there's been a, they get their campaign expenses reimbursed and they don't
00:35:24.080
like talking in the open about that a whole heck of a lot cause Canadians don't quite
00:35:27.120
realize how much they're shelling out of pocket to give to these parties.
00:35:29.680
You know, provincially, there's nothing like that.
00:35:33.160
So the NDP has become very dependent upon that.
00:35:36.400
And, uh, you know, they had enough support numbers that they could count on.
00:35:39.740
If you got over 10% in a constituency, you'll get your campaign expenses reimbursed.
00:35:44.440
So they borrowed under the assumption that they would get at least 10% in a whole number
00:35:51.840
Instead, they got completely obliterated in the federal election with, there has to be
00:35:58.800
They didn't get, uh, over 10%, very small minority.
00:36:03.180
So now they've found themselves with no party status, no leader, seven members of parliament,
00:36:12.660
And due to our laws, there's a time clock ticking now because if three years pass, that means the
00:36:21.080
bank loan will now be considered a contribution, which is a really bizarre thing because that's
00:36:25.780
illegal for a bank to contribute to a political party.
00:36:28.720
The only individuals are allowed to legally donate.
00:36:33.860
I mean, how do you punish the bank for loaning?
00:36:36.820
I mean, if they thought it was a loan, it's not really a contribution, but if it's loses
00:36:40.360
that status as a loan, it's odd, but the, but it highlights just how much the NDP are
00:36:47.220
That federal party, it doesn't matter who they get for a leader at this point or what
00:36:50.840
goes on, how on earth are they going to get rid of that debt before the next, uh,
00:36:57.940
No, it's a few, I don't think it's been, it hasn't been reported yet at all, but I'm
00:37:00.960
not sure it's quite a, they said they ran a fully funded campaign and that, and that
00:37:05.200
is, I think 35 million you're allowed to spend something like that.
00:37:08.980
Presumably they would have had some contributions and some return, but let's say it's 10 million.
00:37:12.760
I mean, for a party on the ropes, like they are, who's giving them that money in the next
00:37:17.380
Cause they had no war chest going out election.
00:37:23.380
So, I mean, it's just that, uh, most people aren't paying much attention to them.
00:37:28.360
Eyes are on Carney, eyes are on Polly Ave, but that third party that of Jack Layton is
00:37:33.200
actually, I think at a very high risk of being wiped out.
00:37:38.160
Essentially they, they, they may have to declare bankruptcy and reform.
00:37:40.780
So, uh, Nigel, the closest comparison I can think of is the, uh, federal progressive conservative
00:37:47.980
party in 1992 went from a majority government to two seats.
00:37:51.840
It actually holds the world record for the worst electoral defeat of a political party
00:37:58.100
Uh, I don't, I don't know the returns on Athens here, but, uh, as far as we know, it's
00:38:02.540
the worst governing party has ever been defeated in the history of the world of democracy.
00:38:10.080
Uh, they, you know, sort of hobbled on in a much, much diminished form for, you know,
00:38:15.100
a decade and a half before merging with the Alliance to become the modern conservative
00:38:20.860
They had a huge number of senators at that time and they kicked part of their salaries
00:38:26.240
I don't think they had the same kind of debts, uh, here.
00:38:29.680
Um, but you know, they faced a similar existential issue.
00:38:34.880
Um, it is entirely possible here that the NDP, uh, will not financially recover.
00:38:45.560
Like there's just, uh, there's just nowhere for the money to come from other than the
00:38:49.720
PCs back then could rely on corporate donations.
00:38:51.460
You could go to a business and be like, guys, we've got to save the PC party, get a couple
00:38:58.740
It's like the limits like 4,000 something and only individuals.
00:39:01.540
If the NDP cannot pay it back, um, then the party and its official agents, a bunch of
00:39:14.840
And at that point, are, are political parties allowed to declare bankruptcy?
00:39:19.360
That's actually a, I've never actually heard of them doing so.
00:39:21.760
I mean, that would be a hell of a bad look to declare bankruptcy as a party.
00:39:25.860
Cause there's always, before they rent back up, they'd have to give up their signature
00:39:29.460
headquarters, the Jack Leighton building, that is their assets.
00:39:32.500
Well, that'd be a part of bankruptcy is, you know, you, you give everything.
00:39:37.620
And I mean, I know there used to be some pretty hard limitations on the ability for a party
00:39:42.920
You would have to secure it some way or another.
00:39:49.460
And I think in some way, I'm not sure if it was technically, uh, secured this way, or
00:39:53.140
just depended on this way, those rebounds that they were not eligible for.
00:39:57.300
I don't think a bank should accept a variable as a security on something.
00:40:00.900
It's like, you know, yeah, if the six horse comes in, I can pay back my loan.
00:40:05.120
You know, that, that, that's a pretty dangerous way to finance something.
00:40:07.920
But the building itself or some hard assets, uh, some security behind it somewhere, uh,
00:40:13.600
because I mean, I, it's a whole complicated mire on every level of politics, but I know
00:40:17.480
they do try to discourage candidates and parties from borrowing money.
00:40:21.600
Cause then you can't attribute it to a particular donor.
00:40:24.600
That's, that's why the bank would be found to be the donor, because you basically have
00:40:28.800
to break that all up into a bunch of different names as it got paid back.
00:40:31.940
And that's how it technically now becomes a whole bunch of donations instead of just one
00:40:37.020
Sort of like a certain Alberta party that's somehow got $120,000 and then a whole number
00:40:42.740
of people showed up out of the woodworks and donated $5,000 each that covered it.
00:40:49.740
You have to attribute those donations to people.
00:40:51.780
And if they run out of time in three years to dilute that bank loan into actual donations,
00:40:58.700
Where would you like to be as a bank manager who actually said, yeah, okay, we can work with
00:41:05.060
You know, if you, if you lend money to the socialists, you got it coming.
00:41:11.940
So there's, I think they're, maybe I'm wrong, but it looks to me like their best case, plausible
00:41:18.000
scenario, plausible best case scenario is that they sell the Jack Leighton building.
00:41:25.180
They sell that off and then they limp along their refinancing debts on top of debts and
00:41:33.280
they make it to the next federal election, probably four years from now, still pretty heavily in
00:41:37.500
debt, but they haven't, uh, they've been able to refinance.
00:41:40.900
So they're not technically illegal contributions.
00:41:44.440
The party has not been fined and they haven't declared bankruptcy, but then they've lost
00:41:49.280
That seems to me probably their best plausible case scenario.
00:41:56.480
Like in, in regular cases, whether it's a business or individuals, even a bank might
00:41:59.540
still say, we'll settle, we'll accept the loss.
00:42:03.720
And then we'll, you can't do that in this case.
00:42:05.720
No, because that would be a contribution for sure.
00:42:07.600
So then the other two worst case scenarios are, I think, you know, let's take a note
00:42:15.000
Let, let, let, let, let's, let's do a kind of a, an analysis piece kind of following
00:42:20.040
Can a political party declare bankruptcy because they have a bank account.
00:42:28.380
Um, can they declare bankruptcy and how does that then affect the election law, which is
00:42:39.180
That, I mean, that's a really bad look, but that might actually be their best way out
00:42:43.580
Uh, if, if selling the building, at least then you've got a clean slate financially,
00:42:49.480
Um, their, their only real asset to be honest is their name.
00:42:57.640
The one thing that hasn't been new since the 1960s.
00:43:00.300
That's the third scenario is, uh, they just shut the party down.
00:43:08.420
No one's going to want to take it over after because it's got all that debt.
00:43:10.600
But, so you just, they, they just kind of vote themselves out of existence, essentially
00:43:15.980
declare bankruptcy, but then start another political party.
00:43:19.320
And it's like, you know, kind of how the liberal in Saskatchewan, the liberals and PCs, they
00:43:25.940
just more or less shut down their parties and then all joined a new one.
00:43:32.980
Um, so do they literally just shut the doors on the NDP and just.
00:43:41.820
But you got, you got a financial collapse there, a financial bankruptcy, but they've actually
00:43:46.360
had a policy bankruptcy ever since, uh, Jack Layton, uh, took over the leadership and took
00:43:52.060
it away from the classic social democracy into this kind of, uh, politicized woke-ism that,
00:43:59.460
that the NDP is, uh, has had going for it ever since.
00:44:04.080
Um, they don't have any ideas that people are ready to vote for and support.
00:44:09.720
I mean, the evidence is right there in the last, in the results of the last election.
00:44:17.960
I, I think that dude, I thought you would, but that's, uh, there, there's, uh, Jack Layton got
00:44:22.860
some of their best results by far in their history.
00:44:25.420
I mean, I, I, I think they are, he took things in a different direction.
00:44:30.040
His last election was his best elect where they formed official opposition.
00:44:32.620
Uh, they had to, now, do I think their ideas are bankrupt?
00:44:38.100
They're not trying to get, like, a rural, white, gun-owning Albertan to vote for them.
00:44:47.840
But, uh, but people voted for a largely NDP agenda under Justin Trudeau for a long time,
00:44:55.860
They, and then the left kind of coalesced around the liberals this time to stop polyab.
00:45:02.620
utter uselessness of Jagmeet Singh as a leader.
00:45:06.940
I think Jagmeet Singh, uh, was just a terrible leader.
00:45:10.740
But I think there's still a huge market for a hard, a pretty hard left party in Canada.
00:45:16.600
So, I mean, even if the NDP shut its doors, they sold the Jack Layton building,
00:45:21.980
declared bankruptcy, and then they created the new, new Democratic Party.
00:45:31.160
I mean, look where they, look where the labor vote went in this last election.
00:45:35.840
Sure, but under better leadership, under better leadership, they formed official opposition
00:45:43.840
They have, they've lost a lot of credibility, and a lot of it is, uh, Singh's fault, no question.
00:45:50.060
But, uh, I, uh, can you imagine how the, can you actually imagine the, the sequence of events
00:45:56.500
that would bring them back to public acceptability?
00:46:00.820
That's why you have to have the new, new Democratic Party.
00:46:05.440
Okay, uh, well, we're out of time on the main, uh, part of our show.
00:46:14.700
Just another example of our immigration issues.
00:46:19.260
We can't even get rid of the worst, uh, a gentleman, uh, uh, a Kashkumar cunt was found
00:46:25.900
trying to solicit a 15-year-old girl for sex in Mississauga, and the-
00:46:33.780
But either way, the, the charge was discharged by the judge because it would interfere in
00:46:37.220
his attempts to gain citizenship in, citizenship in Canada.
00:46:40.660
If we can't even get rid of a man who's trying to hire sexual services of children, who on
00:46:46.160
earth can we filter out of our immigration system?
00:46:51.100
Canada's already circled the brain here, I think.
00:46:54.680
So, yes, um, I think we were all gathered around the television and the newsroom there
00:46:58.720
this morning, listening to Mr. Carney talking about the steel workers in Hamilton.
00:47:03.000
I got, I got all kinds of, uh, empathy for steel workers who fear they're going to lose
00:47:09.420
their jobs because of a, of a tariff from the United States.
00:47:13.240
What the Carney actually said was that we have the potential to become our own best customer
00:47:22.080
Well, how about, sir, you, we, Canada becomes its own best customer for oil out of Alberta.
00:47:30.500
And then maybe you put some of those, uh, steel workers to the, to work making pipe and then
00:47:36.860
string it along somewhere to, to get it to where it's wanted in Eastern Canada.
00:47:43.440
Right now we're, we're importing 600,000 barrels of oil to Eastern Canada.
00:47:52.820
Uh, we're real short on time, so I'll keep it super short.
00:47:56.260
Uh, I was listening to an episode of Canada land, uh, yesterday, uh, and they were talking
00:48:05.320
Uh, and they said just no one, the one thing Albertans agree on is that we're all against
00:48:13.280
Uh, I didn't, isn't that odd, uh, because the community where they're proposing to do
00:48:18.360
this, the Crow's Nest Pass had a plebiscite on this and 70 odd percent voted to mine coal.
00:48:28.780
Uh, you know, so it just, it, it's just maddening when you see, you know, there's a, you know,
00:48:35.220
I can just a couple of dipshits living in downtown Edmonton, downtown Calgary.
00:48:38.820
Uh, and then they'll go out to a town hall somewhere in rural Alberta, uh, and kind
00:48:44.700
of, you know, maybe they'll put on their boots like they're, like they're at Stampede or
00:48:47.620
something, uh, try and blend in with the locals.
00:48:50.640
Uh, no, the people in downtown Edmonton, downtown Calgary, uh, your voice does not get to trump,
00:48:59.380
uh, that of the people who actually live in areas where these resources are being extracted,
00:49:06.460
The Crow's Nest Pass is one of the most gorgeous places on the planet.
00:49:10.900
Um, and so yeah, if they're going to mine it, it should be done very responsibly and
00:49:14.300
it should be done with proper recovery when it's done.
00:49:19.480
They don't live in Banff with a huge tourism industry.
00:49:21.820
It's too far off the beaten path to be able to rely on it the same way, even though it's
00:49:27.480
Um, so, uh, just another example of, you know, just kind of a coalition of the hippies and
00:49:33.700
the yuppies working together to take jobs away from people who, uh, who, who want to
00:49:45.300
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00:49:52.260
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00:49:59.320
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