Western Standard

00:00:00.000 Today, today is July 16th, 2025.

00:00:29.340 I'm Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard, and you're watching The Pipeline.

00:00:34.420 I'm joined by our usual posse, Western Standard Opinion Editor, Nigel Hannaford.

00:00:40.300 Good to be here, Art.

00:00:41.640 And Western Standard Senior Alberta Columnist, Corey Morgan.

00:00:44.560 Good afternoon. Even.

00:00:47.140 We've dropped the cosplay cowboy garbs back to our regular office suits here.

00:00:52.600 You guys had a good stampede?

00:00:54.800 The best. Is that right?

00:00:55.840 Yeah. I think I'm finally old.

00:00:58.860 I took it slow this year.

00:01:00.280 I just, yeah.

00:01:03.560 It's the first year.

00:01:04.300 I wasn't like, free beer!

00:01:06.560 I was like, oh no, more free beer. 1.00

00:01:08.600 Shit. 1.00

00:01:09.300 A lot of events. 1.00

00:01:10.740 Yeah. Yeah.

00:01:12.420 Okay.

00:01:13.080 It's a great time.

00:01:14.060 You know, everybody's happy.

00:01:15.500 It's a good mood about the place.

00:01:16.680 It is.

00:01:17.060 I'm 100% stampede.

00:01:19.900 Yeah.

00:01:20.700 Right on.

00:01:22.020 All right.

00:01:22.440 Well, the NDP, the federal NDP, is facing total and complete financial apocalypse following

00:01:32.740 its defeat in the spring federal election.

00:01:35.480 Uh, there's all sorts of reasons now why that party faces bankruptcy.

00:01:41.180 Could it be the actual end of the federal NDP?

00:01:44.660 It's not as crazy as an idea as you might think.

00:01:48.400 Uh, Alberta, this is a scoop in the Western Standard.

00:01:52.960 Alberta UCP members, uh, at the constituency level, have put forward a ton of policy resolutions

00:02:01.040 to be debated at the party's next convention coming in November to, uh, make the UCP officially

00:02:08.480 a supporting, uh, make the UCP officially support Alberta independence.

00:02:13.860 Uh, that would be a pretty radical change for, uh, for a nominally federalist party to be

00:02:20.540 making.

00:02:21.200 Um, so we're going to be talking about what's happening there and what that's going to mean

00:02:24.940 within the conservative, uh, party, the conservative movement in Alberta and the independence movement

00:02:29.680 as these, as the Venn diagram shrinks ever closer over top as they become closer, at least

00:02:36.220 to one in the same.

00:02:37.620 Uh, we're going to start first with Danielle Smith's roadshow.

00:02:40.800 I think those things will dovetail nicely into each other.

00:02:43.860 Uh, Nigel, Danielle Smith, uh, hit the road last night, I think in a Red Deer?

00:02:49.920 In a Red Deer it was, with 450 people attending.

00:02:52.980 Very well, uh, very well populated.

00:02:55.600 So, last month, uh, the Premier announced a province-wide consultation to gather public

00:03:01.280 input, as she put it, on how to strengthen Alberta's autonomy and redefine its role in Canada.

00:03:08.020 Now, I say as she put it because although she's seeking public input,

00:03:13.860 she is also delivering a message, and she is inviting people, I think, to tell her how much

00:03:22.800 they agree with her when it comes to, you know, um, things like the Alberta pension plan, immigration,

00:03:29.920 the provincial police force, uh, frankly, whether, and this is, uh, this is what I've got a special heart for,

00:03:36.860 is, uh, whether, uh, Alberta should collect income taxes and send what is due to Ottawa,

00:03:42.860 or continue with the same, uh, process where Ottawa collects it and gives us what we think we should have.

00:03:49.160 Um, Quebec collects its own income taxes.

00:03:53.600 This is an idea worth pursuing, uh, because it just once more demonstrates the, uh, the, you know,

00:04:01.100 the uniqueness of the, in Quebec's case of Quebec, and it could be for Alberta.

00:04:06.160 Anyway, uh, the meeting quickly turned to independence, Alberta independence,

00:04:14.660 and I don't imagine the Premier was disappointed by that, but building the case for a strong Alberta,

00:04:20.760 including independence if necessary, to strengthen her hand when she comes to deal with the federal government,

00:04:28.000 as she must in due course, because the six months that she gave him, gave Mr. Carney is starting to get a little bit close.

00:04:35.900 So, look, they, um, that was last night in Red Deer.

00:04:39.080 Tonight, it's as we speak, it's in Edmonton, and, uh...

00:04:42.500 You're not going through that whole list, are you?

00:04:43.900 No.

00:04:44.520 No, I do.

00:04:44.980 Well, you know, I mean, the people in Fort McMurray probably care, uh, but, it's, but they're taking a hiatus for about a month.

00:04:52.100 Edmonton, Scrabari, Lloyd Minister, that's, uh, that's the August show,

00:04:56.420 Medicine ad, Lethbridge and Airdrie in September, Grand Prairie too, back to Calvary for later in September.

00:05:03.000 So, look, these are, these are actually quite important meetings, and, uh, I, I would, um,

00:05:08.180 urge people to pay attention to what's being said, and maybe go to one if you can.

00:05:11.980 Uh, Corey, a lot of people have, I think, fairly compared this to Jason Kenney's Fair Deal panel.

00:05:19.860 Um, you know, that came right after, I think it was 2019, uh, federal election.

00:05:26.640 Shortly after his general election, yeah.

00:05:28.620 Yeah, it was 2019, no, uh, provisional election.

00:05:31.620 No, it was 2019 provisional, then there was federal right after, I think.

00:05:35.140 Oh, it came right after a minute.

00:05:36.340 2021 was the federal election.

00:05:37.960 Okay, yeah.

00:05:38.840 Well, there was a 2019 one as well, so...

00:05:40.960 Yeah, it's okay, right after a federal election where, uh, independence under the name Wexit

00:05:46.300 at that time had flared up, it became a big problem for him within the UCP, as a huge number

00:05:52.400 of UCP members are sympathetic, if not outright supportive, of independence.

00:05:57.320 Um, you know, Kenney being an un, he's an un, he declared himself an unconditional federalist.

00:06:02.080 There is no circumstance under which he ever supports independence.

00:06:04.440 Okay, that's fine.

00:06:05.940 Um, but he, he realized he needed some kind of relief, uh, release valve, uh, because

00:06:12.440 there was all the steam pent up, and if he didn't find a way for people to blow it off,

00:06:17.680 it would have blown up his party.

00:06:19.740 And it still nearly did.

00:06:21.480 Um, but we, not, not much came out of that.

00:06:25.960 We got the referendum on equalization.

00:06:27.380 That was, that had already been an election promise anyway.

00:06:29.600 That was just kind of rehashed again in the report.

00:06:31.920 Um, uh, this time though, Kenny, uh, the premier herself is chairing it.

00:06:38.200 Not, that one, Preston Manning chair it.

00:06:39.940 It was ostensibly at least arm's length.

00:06:42.460 He was not writing the report.

00:06:44.040 He wasn't sitting on the panels.

00:06:45.360 Smith is directly chairing this panel.

00:06:47.580 So these panels are practically fairly large.

00:06:49.900 Um, how is it, in what ways do you think this could be substantially different in any way

00:06:56.120 from the Kenny Fear Deal panels that didn't really leap much?

00:07:01.080 Yeah, well, I mean, I think most realize that Kenny's efforts were just a deferral and an event,

00:07:06.480 but he had no intention of really following through with any of those.

00:07:09.220 Let's just make them feel like they've been listened to and we'll move on with government

00:07:12.420 how we will, or to be a little fair, maybe he had bigger plans.

00:07:15.940 COVID did hit and government priorities kind of changed all over the place.

00:07:19.700 But either way, the panel went nowhere to, you know, to, to speak of, I think with premier

00:07:25.200 Smith chairing it herself, that was a purposeful effort. 0.87

00:07:27.880 It's very rare when a sitting premier will commit to a whole bunch of public hearings.

00:07:32.200 Yeah.

00:07:32.740 I was saying rare in that, uh, I'd have to research.

00:07:35.380 I wouldn't say never, but it's certainly not common.

00:07:38.080 And, uh, I think she, she realizes that she's owning this.

00:07:42.480 If nothing comes to this, it's going to be on her lap.

00:07:45.280 Like, why did you do this?

00:07:46.620 Why did you waste our time yet again?

00:07:48.740 So I think she's serious with where she wants to go on this kind of, as you said in the opening

00:07:53.120 too, though, it's kind of like they're, they just want to get answers to the questions or

00:07:56.800 answers they reiterated.

00:07:58.440 They already have, uh, something as interesting as she's talking about these, what they conclude

00:08:03.700 will likely be going to a referendum next year.

00:08:06.900 So there's probably a number of questions they already have in mind.

00:08:09.500 So this is kind of the warmup.

00:08:11.340 This is moving towards it.

00:08:13.400 And it's going to be put to a general question sometime within a year, I think, which is radically

00:08:17.740 different than, than, uh, what, what the, uh, fair deal panels were.

00:08:22.100 Uh, Nigel, Smith has already talked about putting a series of other sovereignty related, not

00:08:29.420 independence, but sovereignty related questions on the ballot that would.

00:08:33.700 Probably go in conjunction with the expected independence referendum.

00:08:37.220 Uh, you know, the independence referendum, that being one that is likely to come from

00:08:41.480 citizens initiative, uh, petitions to get that on the ballot.

00:08:46.000 Uh, this might appear at the same time.

00:08:50.180 Is there any grand strategy in that, that, eh, maybe she doesn't think independence will

00:08:54.160 succeed, but then I've seen critics of hers, uh, on the left say, well, she's going to use,

00:09:01.060 you know, these things would never pass on their own, like a pension plan.

00:09:03.440 And then police, uh, taxes, that kind of thing.

00:09:06.260 They wouldn't pass on their own.

00:09:07.400 What if independence is on the ballot at the same time, they'll seem more moderate and

00:09:11.800 then has a chance of passing.

00:09:13.600 And then there's the other side that I'm a bit more partial to.

00:09:16.300 And I think having those things on the ballot makes it less likely that independence succeeds

00:09:20.820 because then people can, they can check a number of these sovereignty within Canada

00:09:25.000 options, uh, without going the whole hawk.

00:09:27.520 I'm, how do you see it?

00:09:29.880 I'm pretty sure that this is a backup plan.

00:09:32.200 Um, uh, she wants to, she, what she doesn't want is to go into a meeting with her federal 0.99

00:09:40.060 opposite numbers and they are able to turn to her and say, I don't know why you're here.

00:09:45.600 The people you're representing don't want this.

00:09:49.340 That's what she wants to avoid.

00:09:51.300 So she needs a good showing in these, uh, in these meetings. 1.00

00:09:54.720 She needs to have plenty of public support for the positions that she's adopted. 1.00

00:10:01.080 And the relationship between the, the referendum question and these other things is probably

00:10:09.320 not the one you, the one that you're hoping for, but it is, if, if the one doesn't go well,

00:10:15.320 at least the others might.

00:10:17.080 And from, from a political point of view, that's a win for the premier, not the big win,

00:10:23.420 but enough of a win that you didn't lose.

00:10:26.000 Well, of course, she's also talking in, uh, this Alberta next panel, the roadshow about

00:10:32.700 a suite of constitutional amendments, uh, you know, to the federal constitution.

00:10:38.480 Uh, we talked about that last week.

00:10:41.560 Uh, I'm still unsure what the strategy is there because she's a smart lady. 0.92

00:10:46.980 She knows that there's virtually no chance that the rest of the country, primarily in the 0.94

00:10:52.680 East, Eastern and Central Canada, that they're ever going to agree to any substantive constitutional

00:10:57.660 changes.

00:10:58.420 One, because they'd be giving up tons of power.

00:11:01.080 Uh, PEI is not going to give up having such a more representation in Parliament almost

00:11:05.140 than Alberta with, uh, you know, the population of like Airdrie.

00:11:10.100 Um, they're not going to give that up.

00:11:11.980 Say the Nova Scotia, Brunswick, um, and then Quebec is, you know, if, if, if we're talking

00:11:18.220 constitution, Quebec, they're going to open up their crazy grab bag of ideas and say,

00:11:22.580 okay, well, we want some French supremacist stuff.

00:11:25.440 Uh, people in Lethbridge can only speak French.

00:11:28.300 I don't know.

00:11:29.500 Um, you know, they're going to come to their crazy ideas that there's a 0% chance that English

00:11:34.060 Canada, especially in the West could accept.

00:11:36.540 Where's she going with that stuff?

00:11:38.100 Well, I think there's no chance.

00:11:39.520 I'm really guessing, but I think they're being quite strategic and tactical with this.

00:11:42.820 So this will finish, uh, what I believe that towards the end of September, there'll be

00:11:45.840 the hearings, give them a month to chew on it.

00:11:48.000 And as we said, this is probably predetermined.

00:11:49.500 They'll have the report that comes out and part of it will say, oh, well, look at that.

00:11:52.580 And our hearings, we found that most people support these proposed constitutional ideas.

00:11:56.900 So we'll wrap it up in a pretty little bow and submit it to Ottawa and the provinces and

00:12:00.640 say, look, this is what we're asking for in Alberta.

00:12:02.600 Well, by Christmas time, most of the provinces and whatnot will at best have ignored it.

00:12:07.220 At worst, some will just say, roll it up and stick it back up wherever you pulled it from.

00:12:10.860 And that's where she's well positioned to say, look, see, that's where we're going to get

00:12:15.560 trying on the constitutional front.

00:12:17.500 And now we've got a referendum coming next year with this, this, this, this, and this

00:12:22.040 on it that don't require constitutional changes.

00:12:24.780 This is the path Alberta must go.

00:12:26.780 So I think they're setting it up knowing it's going to fail, but at least to demonstrate

00:12:31.640 to Albertans that if you want to keep firing these guns at a target that's invulnerable,

00:12:36.720 we're wasting our time.

00:12:38.180 So it's just one more way to show and she'll have a mandate say, well, we, we offered, this 0.57

00:12:42.680 is what we got.

00:12:43.280 Now we have to try something else.

00:12:45.240 Nigel, do you share that?

00:12:47.740 I bet.

00:12:48.120 I mean, I'm thinking that she's setting up, she's let them say, screw you to us so that

00:12:53.400 to strengthen her case, to get these other facts.

00:12:55.400 Absolutely.

00:12:56.280 I mean, she knows that the, the, the amending formula for the Canadian constitution is seven

00:13:03.120 provinces with two thirds of the population and you're never going to get that kind of

00:13:08.360 buy-in.

00:13:09.200 I couldn't get it back in, when we were, they were negotiating the Charlottetown or the Meech

00:13:14.900 Lake Accords, um, it's actually held up on the indigenous, one indigenous vote there.

00:13:22.540 So now we got more.

00:13:25.240 She knows exactly.

00:13:27.140 And I, Corey's nailed it precisely there that once it is very clear, because there's

00:13:33.080 visible reminder to a new generation of Albertans that you, you can't get constitutional change

00:13:39.860 in Canada, then she's free to go on to the, to plan B. 0.55

00:13:46.220 She's tried, gave it a good shot.

00:13:48.880 Okay.

00:13:49.520 Well, that segues nicely, um, into what's happening within the UCP on the independence question.

00:13:56.420 So this was, uh, this was a story, our reporter, uh, Tula, uh, Mizzoulam, uh, broke, uh, last

00:14:06.000 week that, uh, there have been something in the neighborhood of 50 odd resolutions from individuals

00:14:13.740 and constituency associations.

00:14:15.360 Um, well, the, the way, the way the policy conferences, uh, for the UCP and Alberta work

00:14:21.500 is, uh, individual members and constituency associations can all submit policies.

00:14:27.060 And then before they go to be voted on at the convention, the different constituency

00:14:31.420 associations sit down and they rank how much they like each one.

00:14:34.800 So that essentially the ones with the most agreement go to the front of the lineup.

00:14:38.000 Um, and then theoretically, you know, if, if the convention spent 10 seconds on each, then

00:14:43.140 you'd go through all 300 resolutions or something to get there.

00:14:45.780 More likely they get to 30, 35, something like that ranked in order of what's got the most

00:14:51.340 interest.

00:14:52.860 There is a, I think, a certainty that independence is going to get ranked high enough.

00:14:57.500 Uh, it could be damn near the first question that'll come up.

00:15:00.580 Um, now I guess the question that the UCP is wrestling with right now is, um,

00:15:07.000 I don't think they're looking at not allowing it there.

00:15:10.280 I think that would create a revolt in the UCP.

00:15:12.460 You'd probably get a special general meeting called essentially to recall the board of that

00:15:16.620 party.

00:15:17.240 Um, but they're either going to have it at the convention or what they're doing is

00:15:20.540 giving consideration to right now, uh, uh, having essentially a party plebiscite on the

00:15:29.180 policy as, as a standalone rather than having it at the convention itself.

00:15:33.100 Um, this, I mean,

00:15:37.000 I think I'd argue probably is a, would be a big step forward for, I mean, uh, separate

00:15:42.440 from the interest, the partisan interest of the UCP, which this would be very divisive.

00:15:46.840 Uh, I mean, it'd be a, be an earthquake success for the independence movement to essentially

00:15:52.540 capture the governing party of Alberta at a convention.

00:15:55.620 So the, again, it's creating the sense of occasion.

00:16:01.060 I mean, you could put these, uh, you could put these resolutions at the front of the regular

00:16:07.660 party meeting and anybody who's ever been to one of those meetings knows this would be

00:16:12.720 about the only interesting one for 10 years.

00:16:14.560 So it's, uh, it's, uh, you can drink a lot of warm water while you're waiting for those

00:16:19.900 things to develop, but this would capture the attention, but even more would it capture the

00:16:24.540 attention if it became his own separate, uh, convention.

00:16:30.060 Because then again, when you're facing the federal government's representatives, they're saying,

00:16:36.140 this is so important to all burdens that we, the, that this 5,000 person convention came

00:16:44.020 together to discuss it.

00:16:45.700 And you're going to find that I think I'd be very surprised if the independence movement

00:16:51.340 isn't the majority in the UCP membership.

00:16:54.380 And this is about, I think it's about 124,000 people, isn't it?

00:16:57.500 It's high.

00:16:58.500 I don't know what it did lately, it was after past campaigns.

00:17:03.000 It's higher during leadership races and when there's nominations going on.

00:17:06.360 So it's probably a little lower than that right now, but it's strong.

00:17:09.600 I mean, it's, it's a six figure number, I'm sure.

00:17:11.200 Yeah.

00:17:11.900 Um, well, I didn't know what they're not talking about, I think having a separate

00:17:15.200 convention, it'd be technically a special general meeting that's separate, but that'd

00:17:18.660 be like when the UC, uh, the PC and wild rose members voted technically in a special general

00:17:23.360 meeting, but it was a remote one.

00:17:24.540 So you could vote on the phone, you could vote online, you could vote in mail, that kind

00:17:28.060 of thing.

00:17:28.660 So I think it's talking about being more of a referendum.

00:17:30.760 There'll probably be a physical location somewhere where, you know, people gather, but

00:17:34.960 you'd mostly voting.

00:17:36.780 Everyone could vote at home.

00:17:37.800 So you would, it wouldn't be 5,000 people, uh, voting, actually, wasn't the last convention

00:17:41.440 something like 8,000 or something crazy.

00:17:43.400 It was a massive amount.

00:17:44.440 It was the biggest political convention convention in Canadian history.

00:17:47.160 And this was just for a provincial party in the fourth largest problem.

00:17:51.300 You still managed to get a quarter of them drunk in the hospitalities.

00:17:53.740 Yeah.

00:17:54.920 Um, uh, the red gates of hell.

00:17:57.960 I remember it well.

00:17:59.600 But Corey, uh, if polls are to be believed in, they're pretty consistent on this point.

00:18:04.480 Two thirds of UCP voters support independence.

00:18:08.240 Um, it's not a majority of Albertans, but it's two thirds of UCP voters.

00:18:11.500 And traditionally members of a party tend to be more strided, more ideological, uh, more

00:18:18.480 right wing than the, than the public at large.

00:18:21.760 I, if this goes to a vote of UCP members, I have a hard time seeing how this is anything

00:18:28.280 but a pretty resounding yes vote.

00:18:30.120 Well, it's a delicate balance.

00:18:31.720 So for them to say, you can't have it on at policy, especially with so many, but having

00:18:36.660 been submitted already as, as was scooped, uh, would just be, if you want to see somebody

00:18:41.360 grinning your ear to ear, it'll be Cam Davis.

00:18:43.440 Cause you'll finally have the grouse and say, look, you see, that's the only way for

00:18:46.380 independence.

00:18:46.840 They won't even allow you to discuss it.

00:18:48.360 So you have to, that's why UCP has to allow it personally.

00:18:51.680 I think they should allow the discussion.

00:18:53.780 And just speaking my own point of view, I think the members should reject entrenching

00:18:57.760 it into party, but that's where that discussion can come.

00:19:00.500 And then people will read in different things with it.

00:19:02.800 Why do you like you support independence?

00:19:04.240 Why, why do you think the members should not make that party policy?

00:19:07.200 Because you make that party policy and you got to remember three, two thirds of the UCP

00:19:12.360 voters support independence, but this is a very polarizing issue.

00:19:15.800 It's not one where there's much fuzziness with people.

00:19:17.620 It's a deal breaker for a lot of them.

00:19:19.480 And when you've, and when you've got 0% of the supporters, the NDP who support independence,

00:19:23.260 you cut away a potential 20% of your base.

00:19:26.540 And you look at the electoral math and that next general election can look really, really

00:19:30.800 bad when you have actually carrying independence in your policy set.

00:19:34.760 Again, I think that's where the tactic of being able to say, we're putting it in the

00:19:39.180 hands of Albertans.

00:19:40.100 If they initiate a referendum, they can have that vote.

00:19:42.640 They can make that decision.

00:19:44.080 And that's where it belongs and not within the party.

00:19:47.740 Cause then you can rip your own party very dangerously, or at least your base of support

00:19:52.140 in a general election.

00:19:53.940 So, I mean, that's just my view on it.

00:19:55.940 Not every UCP MLA is necessarily pro independence.

00:20:00.900 So no, I mean, even if I'm a Joe say, yeah, the Lord do if that party makes it policy.

00:20:05.140 Yeah.

00:20:05.400 And we know MLAs are bound by party policy as a longer discussion of things, but I would

00:20:11.660 hope there'd be a spirited discussion and maybe along those lines of, again, I mean,

00:20:15.240 this is as pro independence as we've ever seen from a governing party in this province.

00:20:19.560 And there's still room to push it further.

00:20:22.220 I was VP policy for the Wildrose for a number of terms.

00:20:26.120 It's a thankless, miserable job.

00:20:28.420 And what, but you do, there's, there's no doubt there's mechanisms to try and get policies

00:20:32.500 to go the way you want them and the way you don't without, you know, directly interfering

00:20:37.280 or being bad.

00:20:38.020 So with the order you set them in, I don't think they could put that question at the top

00:20:40.920 of the agenda.

00:20:41.480 You're going to put it down a ways where you'll reach it.

00:20:43.260 No, it's actually, but it's, it's, it's determined by how they get ranked.

00:20:47.480 The party itself does not get determined what order they're in.

00:20:50.740 Because given the ability, I mean, I would have say made it question 10, but maybe put

00:20:54.880 a three concession questions before it.

00:20:57.040 That'll make the independence people feel a little happier.

00:20:59.180 We're going to take on a provincial police.

00:21:01.180 We're going to entrench a pension plan.

00:21:02.940 Those sorts of things, but I think it's determined more by rankings.

00:21:07.060 Well, and it might be, I'm just speaking from how it was before, but how you try to adjust

00:21:11.240 policy discussions so that maybe by then there's been a lot of debate on it and members in

00:21:16.140 the room are starting to think on things a little further that maybe we could put this

00:21:19.300 to referendum rather than entrenching in party policy.

00:21:22.460 But I mean, that's, they can't ignore the question, but I do think it would be very dangerous

00:21:27.980 if they actually put it into party policy and it really could bode poorly in a general

00:21:34.020 election.

00:21:34.360 I do agree it's politically dangerous.

00:21:37.040 I mean, if that becomes the defining issue of election, it gives the NDP a better shot of

00:21:40.320 winning because their voters are unified.

00:21:43.380 Ninety-five percent of NDP voters are federalists.

00:21:46.120 Only five percent support independence as New Democrats, whereas with UCP voters, it's a

00:21:52.500 bigger pool of voters, you know, the more popular, but it's two-thirds.

00:21:57.300 It's Board of Independence, one-third opposed.

00:21:59.380 And that is not a marginal question.

00:22:01.420 It's not like what the tax rate should be or what's in the curriculum.

00:22:03.660 It's an existential question.

00:22:05.460 Yeah.

00:22:05.760 And as an independence supporter, I mean, I want to see a referendum and I want to

00:22:08.440 see as strong a showing as humanly possible in it.

00:22:11.120 I still think unless things change pretty dramatically, which is possible in this next

00:22:14.880 eight months, it's still going to be hard to get over 50% in the referendum.

00:22:18.720 So it better be pretty darn good.

00:22:20.160 But if you come in at 40% and then the NDP get in, is it going to be a decade before we

00:22:25.780 get another vote on it?

00:22:26.560 Because, you know, the next chance you get, you're not going to get that chance at all

00:22:31.660 with the NDP.

00:22:32.640 I'm just saying, will the members think that strategically?

00:22:35.320 I don't know.

00:22:36.200 But that's the way I kind of look at it.

00:22:38.060 I don't know.

00:22:39.080 The thing is, you're going to have huge political machines on the Federalist side in this referendum.

00:22:47.560 You're going to have the Alberta NDP.

00:22:49.240 You're going to have whatever small machines are for the Federal and the Federal NDP and

00:22:55.820 the Liberals, which in a few pockets, there's something, but nothing big.

00:22:59.180 But the Conservative Party of Canada is going to do everything it can.

00:23:03.200 They have the most to lose politically with independence.

00:23:06.140 They lose their biggest basic support.

00:23:08.120 I'm so committed to it being a grassroots individuals or, you know, groups and movements

00:23:11.960 rather than trying to get into the party.

00:23:13.860 But the Conservative Party of Canada is going to be here fighting against it, surely.

00:23:15.880 And they will under any circumstance.

00:23:17.260 Yeah, and you'll have the Alberta NDP opposing it.

00:23:21.020 I don't see any chance of winning unless you've got at least one major political machine on

00:23:24.980 your side.

00:23:25.540 And that means the only one in town is the UCP.

00:23:28.700 Or the machine has to be something that isn't a party.

00:23:31.980 Sure.

00:23:32.580 The parties have infrastructure.

00:23:34.600 They have hierarchy.

00:23:36.060 Absolutely.

00:23:36.420 They've got an organization.

00:23:37.560 And the independence movement, I mean, I'm pretty impressed with what some of the folks

00:23:40.820 have done so far, but they pale in comparison to a well-oiled political machine like

00:23:45.080 the UCP or the NDP.

00:23:47.260 You'd be bringing a BB gun to an artillery fight if you're going against a Conservative

00:23:53.200 Party of Canada, the NDP, the Federal Liberals, the Federal NDP, and then the UCP just sits

00:23:59.000 on the sidelines.

00:23:59.760 They cannot win under those circumstances.

00:24:02.080 They need the UCP.

00:24:02.500 Tough hill to climb.

00:24:03.680 I mean, I don't know about that.

00:24:05.000 Again, we're talking about Venn diagrams.

00:24:06.160 You're going to have 80% of the UCP members, operatives.

00:24:09.740 I mean, some of it is allowing perhaps the freedom of MLAs to come out in support or

00:24:14.900 against.

00:24:15.460 I mean, let it be that debate.

00:24:17.980 But I just feel nervous with the party entrenching that outright in the policy book.

00:24:23.900 That just, that turns you into a single issue party.

00:24:27.200 And I tell you, you better win that next referendum then because you aren't winning the next election.

00:24:32.320 So I'm just fearful of it.

00:24:35.180 I know what you're saying.

00:24:35.900 I mean, there's, there's no doubt.

00:24:36.860 I mean, having the ability, those 87 constituencies that are organized, campaign managers, volunteer

00:24:42.400 lists, donors, essential.

00:24:45.300 And it's a huge disadvantage without that.

00:24:47.300 But I, I'm just really fearful of the consequences of the party taking on an independence stance

00:24:53.200 itself.

00:24:53.940 It's, it's, uh, give us the means and don't jump into the freight, but it could be unavoidable.

00:24:58.640 I don't know.

00:24:59.160 I do agree that it would be, uh, I mean, it, it, it gives the NDP a better fighting chance

00:25:05.320 of the next election if the UCP is officially wedded to independence.

00:25:08.940 But by the time we go through that referendum, I, I feel like it's already going to be kind

00:25:14.660 of baked into the cost that the UCP will be widely perceived as pretty much an independence

00:25:19.660 party.

00:25:20.140 They're going to be labeled anyway.

00:25:21.060 There's no, they're going to be labeled no matter what they, they have already amended

00:25:24.460 the legislation to make citizens initiative, uh, referenda on any issue, but this is obviously

00:25:29.540 the issue people want it for.

00:25:31.220 Um, they will have amended the legislation to make it possible.

00:25:35.780 Smith certainly never condemns them.

00:25:38.920 Um, she's invites them to be a part of her party.

00:25:43.380 Is, wouldn't it be baked into the political math anyway, by the time we get to the next

00:25:48.320 election, we've been through a referendum, uh, win, lose, or draw, whatever, whatever

00:25:53.000 happens in that referendum, the UCP, I mean, like I said, we win.

00:25:56.780 I mean, no one's going to then trust the NDP to take over.

00:25:59.360 It means I'd be like putting labor in charge right after Brexit.

00:26:02.020 They're not going to do it.

00:26:03.160 So, uh, but let's, let's say there's a referendum loss.

00:26:06.060 Cause the math doesn't favor independence right now, uh, very well, but if there's a referendum

00:26:11.380 loss and then, and then we're going into an election with UCP versus NDP and that's, you

00:26:16.600 know, say a year out from there, isn't it already kind of just baked into the math?

00:26:20.880 Well, I know she said, the UCP comes out, Peter Smith comes out and says, well, we had

00:26:26.840 the referendum, it lost, uh, you know, that's what happens when you have a referendum.

00:26:31.600 You ask people what they think, they tell you what you think.

00:26:33.760 Now we move on, uh, however, let Ottawa be under no misapprehensions about the strength

00:26:40.840 and depth of feeling in Alberta about how interrelations between Ottawa and Alberta have gone.

00:26:51.600 Meanwhile, we still have the same set of demands and we're continuing to press them because

00:26:57.060 clearly we do have a constituency for it.

00:27:00.440 My question though, is about in an election.

00:27:03.520 So, you know, we go through a referendum, let's say the referendum was not successful.

00:27:07.960 And then a year out from there, we're in an Alberta general election versus the UCP versus

00:27:12.780 the EP.

00:27:14.240 Um, you know, Corey raises the point, I think fairly that while the UCP, if it officially adopts

00:27:20.280 independence, it's then going to split off voters.

00:27:24.560 But even if it doesn't officially support independence as a policy, I think voters will

00:27:30.160 still, from both sides, will still say you're the independent party and the NDP are the unconditional

00:27:35.780 federalist party.

00:27:37.080 Well, I, I, I, I'm actually not sure it actually changes the electoral math, uh, that much once

00:27:43.300 you're a year out from that referendum.

00:27:45.400 I don't know here, but the UCP would be regarded as a home and a haven for, uh, traitors and people

00:27:53.400 who would hold down the Canadian flag.

00:27:55.040 Yes, of course they would.

00:27:57.180 And that's because they would be, wouldn't they?

00:28:01.140 If I, if the majority of the UCP membership actually does favor independence of some kind,

00:28:08.240 well, it doesn't matter whether it becomes party policy, doesn't matter whether it becomes

00:28:12.700 a, um, whether the referendum passes, the UCP has defined itself on that issue.

00:28:20.720 And that is probably the issue that most people care about.

00:28:24.820 So change the channel to something else.

00:28:27.080 So what do you think, Corey?

00:28:27.760 Uh, you know, there's a referendum, it's not successful, a year from there.

00:28:32.020 Does it actually matter with voters at that point?

00:28:34.360 Uh, if the UCP officially supported independence or not, because I think everyone's going to

00:28:39.360 perceive it anyway.

00:28:40.040 A couple of things will depend on, I guess, how well the referendum fared.

00:28:42.860 You know, if, if you were looking at, it was 46, 47%, you know, there's some safe ground 1.00

00:28:48.420 that, that they can still cultivate as an independence party and, and still sit on.

00:28:51.920 If it came in at 25, you know, but they've got it entrenched in their policies and independence

00:28:58.180 party, uh, they're caught in a rock and a hard place.

00:29:03.100 I mean, you don't want to remove policy that members have entrenched, but at the same time,

00:29:06.320 if you're coming towards an election, you want to change the channel.

00:29:09.320 You'll want the next election to be on something else besides the independence.

00:29:12.740 I guess as Nigel said, well, there, we did put it to the citizens of Alberta and that

00:29:17.440 trumps the members' choices in this, you know, the party favors this, the members favor

00:29:21.340 this, but at this time, that's not where Alberta is. 0.78

00:29:25.040 And we're going to continue to govern and stand up and all the rest of the things, but

00:29:28.740 they'll have to carefully distance themselves from that 26% or whatever, while not alienating 0.80

00:29:35.120 them.

00:29:35.960 Uh, but the, and as you said, they're going to wear it anyway.

00:29:38.460 I mean, they already are.

00:29:39.280 It doesn't matter what, if you, shouldn't they then just own the policy, get on and ride

00:29:45.200 that or else?

00:29:45.760 Well, no, cause it's not a hundred percent of them.

00:29:47.620 So it's not fair for them wearing it and you shouldn't wear it.

00:29:50.320 If, if I know as frustrating as it may be, uh, just because you're being labeled with

00:29:55.060 it, doesn't mean you have to accept it.

00:29:56.560 Yeah.

00:29:56.760 Well, I mean, put yourself in a position of a UCP MLA who actually does not support independence.

00:30:03.160 I don't know how many people there are like that, but if you say, okay, that's it, this

00:30:07.200 is our policy.

00:30:07.860 This is what we're going through in the next election.

00:30:10.900 A person who does not support independence is going to think, well, do I actually want

00:30:14.920 to run for this party and even before the, uh, before the election is called, they may

00:30:21.940 be asking themselves, do I even want to support it while I am a sitting MLA?

00:30:27.660 Sorry, I'm going to sit on the sidelines.

00:30:30.000 I'm not resigning my seat because I need the money, but I am not going to be, uh, identified

00:30:38.120 as a separatist because that's not who I am.

00:30:42.820 And that's not what my family wants.

00:30:44.480 It's not what my voters want and it's not what I want.

00:30:47.300 So now you've got a situation where the NDP could conceivably contrive a situation that

00:30:53.380 splits the, um, splits those people away.

00:30:55.920 The government falls, you go to a snap election.

00:30:58.700 So I, I think owning the, making it official and owning the policy and putting your MLAs who

00:31:05.080 are either federalists or sitting on the sidelines and uncomfortable and making them make a choice

00:31:09.640 could be a bad, a bad policy.

00:31:11.860 And I'm coming from a position of a man who I want independence.

00:31:15.520 I want to see Alberta leave the Federation.

00:31:17.840 They have no ifs, ands, or buts.

00:31:19.140 I've written quite clearly on that and that's where I stand.

00:31:21.620 But I also just always want to remain realistic of what might be our best path, best path to

00:31:26.100 actually get there.

00:31:27.800 And there's a whole lot of different branches and pitfalls we can hit on the way we're kind

00:31:32.120 of on the best track we've been since 1982.

00:31:35.060 We're, uh, you know, as close as we've seen in a generation.

00:31:39.380 So, I mean, I, you also don't want to lose this opportunity for fear of failure because it's

00:31:45.940 sitting back and being overly cautious, but I'm just also want to make sure that we always

00:31:50.180 think of things strategically so we can win.

00:31:52.480 I agree, but I, I see, uh, being timid and just the UCP being totally neutral as an institution

00:32:04.480 during a referendum.

00:32:06.800 It's betting on it losing.

00:32:07.980 And, and there's a, I give it a one in three shot of succeeding.

00:32:12.580 Uh, maybe it's one in four.

00:32:14.780 It's not the good money, but I think, I think it's in the realm of possibility.

00:32:18.300 There is a realm.

00:32:19.020 I think it, it can win.

00:32:20.820 It's just not the good money.

00:32:22.520 Um, but without the UCP throwing its full institutional weight into the fight, the chance

00:32:29.800 of winning goes down to near zero because you're just going to have every other major political

00:32:33.980 machine in Alberta all against you and you're not going to defeat the combined forces of

00:32:39.920 the conservative party of Canada, the liberal party of Canada, the federal NDP, the Alberta

00:32:43.940 NDP, much of the business establishment, the union establishment, all of them are going

00:32:50.760 to be against you.

00:32:51.700 We'll see.

00:32:52.400 I mean, it's a different kind of campaign too.

00:32:53.920 You gotta keep in mind, this is a campaign of yes and no.

00:32:57.440 Uh, a general election is a campaign of 87 candidates and a thousand different policies.

00:33:02.160 This one can let focus sit.

00:33:06.320 I mean, I, again, I know if I, if you had the UCP actively campaigning, putting all those

00:33:10.420 resources would definitely be an advantage, but it's not quite the same disadvantage as

00:33:14.400 says we're going to dive into a general election with a whole bunch of independent candidates

00:33:18.280 because then you're just killing yourselves. 0.70

00:33:20.040 As I was saying, that was kind of actually slightly talking myself out of my position because

00:33:24.080 the Charlottetown accord, the federal PCs in support was the federal PCs, the federal

00:33:30.340 liberals, the federal NDP, every single provincial government and every single provincial opposition,

00:33:36.920 the entire business establishment, the entire labor establishment, anyone who was, anyone

00:33:43.260 was in support of the Charlottetown accord.

00:33:45.460 And then there was like the reform party, which had one seat in parliament and they, and they

00:33:52.960 won.

00:33:53.100 They were on the side of right.

00:33:54.140 Or Brexit, you know.

00:33:56.480 Yeah.

00:33:56.740 Brexit was similar. 0.95

00:33:58.120 The establishment was certainly opposed, but the citizens felt otherwise.

00:34:01.780 You gotta remember if the establishment overplays, that's the sort of thing that makes an

00:34:05.460 Albertan feel like, boy, I gotta lash back.

00:34:08.440 Uh, you know, it can be dangerous if it seems like you got the world against you and you,

00:34:13.020 hey, you know what?

00:34:13.620 My pen can actually send them a middle finger.

00:34:15.920 No, I wouldn't recommend to the premier that she make it part of party policy.

00:34:21.100 Well, she's absolutely sure that she's got the majority of voting Albertans on her side. 0.86

00:34:27.280 Well, I don't think she does right now.

00:34:28.660 I think to get that majority though, you're going to need the UCP.

00:34:30.820 It's a difficult chicken and egg thing going on, I guess you could say.

00:34:35.080 Okay.

00:34:37.380 Well, uh, we'll switch gears back to Ottawa a bit here.

00:34:42.960 Uh, so, uh, Fred Delori is a former executive, uh, director of the Federal Consumers Party during

00:34:50.280 the Aaron O'Toole era.

00:34:51.400 He's got an interesting, uh, sub stack, uh, page and, um, it's, it's a few, it's like a

00:34:57.540 week or two old now, but, uh, uh, Corey, I think you were going to get it.

00:35:00.820 We're going to put this on as one of our topics today was, was his story.

00:35:04.580 Um, kind of just give us the background on that with the, um, pretty perilous financial

00:35:10.280 situation.

00:35:10.840 The NDP finds itself.

00:35:11.980 Sure.

00:35:12.200 I mean, cause it kind of slides under the radar for people cause it's a bit wonky.

00:35:15.060 I mean, people don't necessarily understand how the funding works for federal political

00:35:18.260 parties and there's been a, they get their campaign expenses reimbursed and they don't

00:35:24.080 like talking in the open about that a whole heck of a lot cause Canadians don't quite 0.94

00:35:27.120 realize how much they're shelling out of pocket to give to these parties.

00:35:29.680 You know, provincially, there's nothing like that.

00:35:31.540 You have to rely on donors.

00:35:33.160 So the NDP has become very dependent upon that.

00:35:36.400 And, uh, you know, they had enough support numbers that they could count on.

00:35:39.740 If you got over 10% in a constituency, you'll get your campaign expenses reimbursed.

00:35:44.440 So they borrowed under the assumption that they would get at least 10% in a whole number

00:35:50.680 of constituencies.

00:35:51.840 Instead, they got completely obliterated in the federal election with, there has to be

00:35:57.520 a couple of hundred ridings.

00:35:58.800 They didn't get, uh, over 10%, very small minority.

00:36:01.760 They got 10% or more.

00:36:03.180 So now they've found themselves with no party status, no leader, seven members of parliament,

00:36:09.860 millions of dollars into debt.

00:36:12.660 And due to our laws, there's a time clock ticking now because if three years pass, that means the

00:36:21.080 bank loan will now be considered a contribution, which is a really bizarre thing because that's

00:36:25.780 illegal for a bank to contribute to a political party.

00:36:28.720 The only individuals are allowed to legally donate.

00:36:30.520 Yeah.

00:36:31.140 So it's, it's uncharted in a sense.

00:36:33.860 I mean, how do you punish the bank for loaning?

00:36:36.820 I mean, if they thought it was a loan, it's not really a contribution, but if it's loses

00:36:40.360 that status as a loan, it's odd, but the, but it highlights just how much the NDP are

00:36:46.720 in trouble though.

00:36:47.220 That federal party, it doesn't matter who they get for a leader at this point or what

00:36:50.840 goes on, how on earth are they going to get rid of that debt before the next, uh,

00:36:56.560 Do we know how legally in debt they are?

00:36:57.940 No, it's a few, I don't think it's been, it hasn't been reported yet at all, but I'm

00:37:00.960 not sure it's quite a, they said they ran a fully funded campaign and that, and that

00:37:05.200 is, I think 35 million you're allowed to spend something like that.

00:37:08.980 Presumably they would have had some contributions and some return, but let's say it's 10 million.

00:37:12.760 I mean, for a party on the ropes, like they are, who's giving them that money in the next

00:37:16.580 few years?

00:37:16.880 It was 10.

00:37:17.380 Cause they had no war chest going out election.

00:37:19.600 That's true.

00:37:20.240 They just paid off their last work.

00:37:22.300 They had nothing in the bank.

00:37:23.380 So, I mean, it's just that, uh, most people aren't paying much attention to them.

00:37:28.360 Eyes are on Carney, eyes are on Polly Ave, but that third party that of Jack Layton is

00:37:33.200 actually, I think at a very high risk of being wiped out.

00:37:38.160 Essentially they, they, they may have to declare bankruptcy and reform.

00:37:40.780 So, uh, Nigel, the closest comparison I can think of is the, uh, federal progressive conservative

00:37:47.980 party in 1992 went from a majority government to two seats.

00:37:51.840 It actually holds the world record for the worst electoral defeat of a political party

00:37:56.480 in the history of democracy.

00:37:58.100 Uh, I don't, I don't know the returns on Athens here, but, uh, as far as we know, it's

00:38:02.540 the worst governing party has ever been defeated in the history of the world of democracy.

00:38:06.520 Uh, they actually never did come back.

00:38:10.080 Uh, they, you know, sort of hobbled on in a much, much diminished form for, you know,

00:38:15.100 a decade and a half before merging with the Alliance to become the modern conservative

00:38:18.000 party.

00:38:18.440 But, um, there was different rules.

00:38:20.860 They had a huge number of senators at that time and they kicked part of their salaries

00:38:24.680 in the party to try and keep it afloat.

00:38:26.240 I don't think they had the same kind of debts, uh, here.

00:38:29.680 Um, but you know, they faced a similar existential issue.

00:38:34.880 Um, it is entirely possible here that the NDP, uh, will not financially recover.

00:38:45.560 Like there's just, uh, there's just nowhere for the money to come from other than the

00:38:49.720 PCs back then could rely on corporate donations.

00:38:51.460 You could go to a business and be like, guys, we've got to save the PC party, get a couple

00:38:55.100 guys running some big donate, big checks.

00:38:57.340 That's not allowed legally federally.

00:38:58.740 It's like the limits like 4,000 something and only individuals.

00:39:01.540 If the NDP cannot pay it back, um, then the party and its official agents, a bunch of

00:39:10.980 people get massive fines.

00:39:12.940 They could get the millions of dollars.

00:39:14.840 And at that point, are, are political parties allowed to declare bankruptcy?

00:39:18.460 I don't.

00:39:19.360 That's actually a, I've never actually heard of them doing so.

00:39:21.760 I mean, that would be a hell of a bad look to declare bankruptcy as a party.

00:39:25.860 Cause there's always, before they rent back up, they'd have to give up their signature

00:39:29.460 headquarters, the Jack Leighton building, that is their assets.

00:39:32.500 Well, that'd be a part of bankruptcy is, you know, you, you give everything.

00:39:36.500 I don't know.

00:39:37.620 And I mean, I know there used to be some pretty hard limitations on the ability for a party

00:39:41.780 to borrow money.

00:39:42.920 You would have to secure it some way or another.

00:39:45.140 Well, so it's secured against the building.

00:39:49.460 And I think in some way, I'm not sure if it was technically, uh, secured this way, or

00:39:53.140 just depended on this way, those rebounds that they were not eligible for.

00:39:57.300 I don't think a bank should accept a variable as a security on something.

00:40:00.900 It's like, you know, yeah, if the six horse comes in, I can pay back my loan.

00:40:05.120 You know, that, that, that's a pretty dangerous way to finance something.

00:40:07.920 But the building itself or some hard assets, uh, some security behind it somewhere, uh,

00:40:13.600 because I mean, I, it's a whole complicated mire on every level of politics, but I know

00:40:17.480 they do try to discourage candidates and parties from borrowing money.

00:40:21.600 Cause then you can't attribute it to a particular donor.

00:40:24.600 That's, that's why the bank would be found to be the donor, because you basically have

00:40:28.800 to break that all up into a bunch of different names as it got paid back.

00:40:31.940 And that's how it technically now becomes a whole bunch of donations instead of just one

00:40:36.300 lump sum of money.

00:40:37.020 Sort of like a certain Alberta party that's somehow got $120,000 and then a whole number

00:40:42.740 of people showed up out of the woodworks and donated $5,000 each that covered it.

00:40:45.780 Amazing.

00:40:47.100 But, uh, that's the way it works.

00:40:49.740 You have to attribute those donations to people.

00:40:51.780 And if they run out of time in three years to dilute that bank loan into actual donations,

00:40:56.780 yeah, they're really up the creek.

00:40:58.700 Where would you like to be as a bank manager who actually said, yeah, okay, we can work with

00:41:02.620 you on this.

00:41:03.120 He's probably already in the Bahamas by now.

00:41:05.060 You know, if you, if you lend money to the socialists, you got it coming.

00:41:10.780 It's just, it's really weird.

00:41:11.940 So there's, I think they're, maybe I'm wrong, but it looks to me like their best case, plausible

00:41:18.000 scenario, plausible best case scenario is that they sell the Jack Leighton building.

00:41:22.620 They're, they're a big asset.

00:41:23.560 I'm not sure how much that's worth.

00:41:25.180 They sell that off and then they limp along their refinancing debts on top of debts and

00:41:33.280 they make it to the next federal election, probably four years from now, still pretty heavily in

00:41:37.500 debt, but they haven't, uh, they've been able to refinance.

00:41:40.900 So they're not technically illegal contributions.

00:41:43.280 No one's gone to jail.

00:41:44.440 The party has not been fined and they haven't declared bankruptcy, but then they've lost

00:41:48.400 their building.

00:41:49.280 That seems to me probably their best plausible case scenario.

00:41:54.500 Maybe it works out.

00:41:55.060 Maybe.

00:41:55.500 I don't know.

00:41:56.480 Like in, in regular cases, whether it's a business or individuals, even a bank might

00:41:59.540 still say, we'll settle, we'll accept the loss.

00:42:02.900 We'll eat that.

00:42:03.720 And then we'll, you can't do that in this case.

00:42:05.720 No, because that would be a contribution for sure.

00:42:07.600 So then the other two worst case scenarios are, I think, you know, let's take a note

00:42:14.760 of this.

00:42:15.000 Let, let, let, let, let's, let's do a kind of a, an analysis piece kind of following

00:42:18.600 in Delores there.

00:42:20.040 Can a political party declare bankruptcy because they have a bank account.

00:42:23.260 They are a legal corporate entity.

00:42:25.820 They're a not-for-profit society.

00:42:28.380 Um, can they declare bankruptcy and how does that then affect the election law, which is

00:42:34.680 a separate body of law?

00:42:36.320 Can they do that?

00:42:37.120 Um, so possibly they declare bankruptcy.

00:42:39.180 That, I mean, that's a really bad look, but that might actually be their best way out

00:42:42.880 of this.

00:42:43.580 Uh, if, if selling the building, at least then you've got a clean slate financially,

00:42:47.480 those are to lend the money.

00:42:48.660 Yeah.

00:42:49.480 Um, their, their only real asset to be honest is their name.

00:42:52.720 And if, if they can.

00:42:54.000 Well, and that's not an asset anymore.

00:42:55.820 Well, that's the third.

00:42:56.740 From the loan roots. 0.86

00:42:57.640 The one thing that hasn't been new since the 1960s.

00:42:59.960 No.

00:43:00.300 That's the third scenario is, uh, they just shut the party down.

00:43:05.260 They just say, it's a disaster.

00:43:08.420 No one's going to want to take it over after because it's got all that debt.

00:43:10.600 But, so you just, they, they just kind of vote themselves out of existence, essentially

00:43:15.980 declare bankruptcy, but then start another political party.

00:43:19.320 And it's like, you know, kind of how the liberal in Saskatchewan, the liberals and PCs, they

00:43:25.940 just more or less shut down their parties and then all joined a new one.

00:43:28.940 It was a coordinated effort.

00:43:29.820 It wasn't really a four cross.

00:43:30.940 I mean, they just kind of switched labels.

00:43:32.980 Um, so do they literally just shut the doors on the NDP and just.

00:43:38.020 Well, maybe they do.

00:43:39.540 Or the new, new democratic party.

00:43:41.640 Yeah.

00:43:41.820 But you got, you got a financial collapse there, a financial bankruptcy, but they've actually

00:43:46.360 had a policy bankruptcy ever since, uh, Jack Layton, uh, took over the leadership and took

00:43:52.060 it away from the classic social democracy into this kind of, uh, politicized woke-ism that,

00:43:59.460 that the NDP is, uh, has had going for it ever since.

00:44:04.080 Um, they don't have any ideas that people are ready to vote for and support.

00:44:09.720 I mean, the evidence is right there in the last, in the results of the last election.

00:44:15.900 Nobody cares.

00:44:16.900 I, I, I disagree.

00:44:17.960 I, I think that dude, I thought you would, but that's, uh, there, there's, uh, Jack Layton got

00:44:22.860 some of their best results by far in their history.

00:44:25.420 I mean, I, I, I think they are, he took things in a different direction.

00:44:28.700 Well, his successors did.

00:44:30.040 His last election was his best elect where they formed official opposition.

00:44:32.620 Uh, they had to, now, do I think their ideas are bankrupt?

00:44:36.160 Sure.

00:44:36.600 But they're not trying to get my vote.

00:44:38.100 They're not trying to get, like, a rural, white, gun-owning Albertan to vote for them.

00:44:42.320 That, I'm not their demographic.

00:44:44.640 They're-

00:44:45.140 Well, apparently they don't have one anymore.

00:44:47.140 No.

00:44:47.840 But, uh, but people voted for a largely NDP agenda under Justin Trudeau for a long time,

00:44:54.180 uh, taking their votes away.

00:44:55.860 They, and then the left kind of coalesced around the liberals this time to stop polyab.

00:45:00.960 I think that was just the-

00:45:02.620 utter uselessness of Jagmeet Singh as a leader. 0.94

00:45:06.940 I think Jagmeet Singh, uh, was just a terrible leader.

00:45:10.740 But I think there's still a huge market for a hard, a pretty hard left party in Canada.

00:45:15.160 There's a market for it.

00:45:16.600 So, I mean, even if the NDP shut its doors, they sold the Jack Layton building,

00:45:21.980 declared bankruptcy, and then they created the new, new Democratic Party.

00:45:26.140 There, there's a market for it in Canada. 0.98

00:45:28.120 I mean, there's enough crazy people.

00:45:29.920 It's still a big market, though.

00:45:31.160 I mean, look where they, look where the labor vote went in this last election.

00:45:35.480 Went to-

00:45:35.840 Sure, but under better leadership, under better leadership, they formed official opposition

00:45:39.580 in 2015.

00:45:40.900 Sorry, no, in 2011.

00:45:41.640 That was then.

00:45:43.640 Mm-hmm.

00:45:43.840 They have, they've lost a lot of credibility, and a lot of it is, uh, Singh's fault, no question.

00:45:50.060 But, uh, I, uh, can you imagine how the, can you actually imagine the, the sequence of events

00:45:56.500 that would bring them back to public acceptability?

00:45:59.080 Yeah, the best that I can.

00:46:00.820 That's why you have to have the new, new Democratic Party.

00:46:03.100 Yeah.

00:46:03.960 New Coke.

00:46:05.120 Sure.

00:46:05.440 Okay, uh, well, we're out of time on the main, uh, part of our show.

00:46:10.300 So we'll go to Corey's parting shot.

00:46:13.460 Sure, I'll just be quick with it.

00:46:14.700 Just another example of our immigration issues. 0.59

00:46:16.740 I mean, we, we're going to reform immigration. 0.98

00:46:19.260 We can't even get rid of the worst, uh, a gentleman, uh, uh, a Kashkumar cunt was found 1.00

00:46:25.900 trying to solicit a 15-year-old girl for sex in Mississauga, and the- 1.00

00:46:30.500 For God, to pay her for sex. 0.99

00:46:31.800 Yeah. 1.00

00:46:32.240 Yeah.

00:46:32.540 Solicit pay, right?

00:46:33.440 Yeah.

00:46:33.780 But either way, the, the charge was discharged by the judge because it would interfere in

00:46:37.220 his attempts to gain citizenship in, citizenship in Canada.

00:46:40.660 If we can't even get rid of a man who's trying to hire sexual services of children, who on

00:46:46.160 earth can we filter out of our immigration system? 0.98

00:46:49.080 Excellent question.

00:46:51.100 Canada's already circled the brain here, I think.

00:46:54.060 Nigel.

00:46:54.680 So, yes, um, I think we were all gathered around the television and the newsroom there

00:46:58.720 this morning, listening to Mr. Carney talking about the steel workers in Hamilton.

00:47:03.000 I got, I got all kinds of, uh, empathy for steel workers who fear they're going to lose

00:47:09.420 their jobs because of a, of a tariff from the United States.

00:47:13.240 What the Carney actually said was that we have the potential to become our own best customer

00:47:20.240 for steel.

00:47:22.080 Well, how about, sir, you, we, Canada becomes its own best customer for oil out of Alberta.

00:47:30.500 And then maybe you put some of those, uh, steel workers to the, to work making pipe and then 0.93

00:47:36.860 string it along somewhere to, to get it to where it's wanted in Eastern Canada.

00:47:41.160 It's not an idea.

00:47:42.160 Into a horizontal integration.

00:47:43.440 Right now we're, we're importing 600,000 barrels of oil to Eastern Canada.

00:47:49.640 Western Canada could fill that demand.

00:47:52.140 All right.

00:47:52.820 Uh, we're real short on time, so I'll keep it super short.

00:47:56.260 Uh, I was listening to an episode of Canada land, uh, yesterday, uh, and they were talking

00:48:01.840 about the, uh, grassy mountain coal mine.

00:48:05.320 Uh, and they said just no one, the one thing Albertans agree on is that we're all against

00:48:11.260 coal mining, uh, and the, and the Rockies.

00:48:13.280 Uh, I didn't, isn't that odd, uh, because the community where they're proposing to do

00:48:18.360 this, the Crow's Nest Pass had a plebiscite on this and 70 odd percent voted to mine coal.

00:48:26.560 You know, mine, baby, mine.

00:48:28.780 Uh, you know, so it just, it, it's just maddening when you see, you know, there's a, you know, 0.97

00:48:35.220 I can just a couple of dipshits living in downtown Edmonton, downtown Calgary.

00:48:38.820 Uh, and then they'll go out to a town hall somewhere in rural Alberta, uh, and kind 0.93

00:48:44.700 of, you know, maybe they'll put on their boots like they're, like they're at Stampede or

00:48:47.620 something, uh, try and blend in with the locals.

00:48:50.640 Uh, no, the people in downtown Edmonton, downtown Calgary, uh, your voice does not get to trump,

00:48:59.380 uh, that of the people who actually live in areas where these resources are being extracted,

00:49:04.780 where people need jobs and opportunity.

00:49:06.460 The Crow's Nest Pass is one of the most gorgeous places on the planet.

00:49:10.900 Um, and so yeah, if they're going to mine it, it should be done very responsibly and

00:49:14.300 it should be done with proper recovery when it's done.

00:49:16.900 But guess what?

00:49:18.120 The people there need jobs.

00:49:19.480 They don't live in Banff with a huge tourism industry.

00:49:21.820 It's too far off the beaten path to be able to rely on it the same way, even though it's

00:49:25.900 equally as gorgeous.

00:49:27.480 Um, so, uh, just another example of, you know, just kind of a coalition of the hippies and

00:49:33.700 the yuppies working together to take jobs away from people who, uh, who, who want to

00:49:38.700 live where they grew up.

00:49:40.300 Amen.

00:49:40.580 All right.

00:49:42.440 That's it for today.

00:49:44.000 Uh, thank you for joining us.

00:49:45.300 Remember, if you're not a member of the Western Standard yet, you need to be.

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00:49:59.320 I'm the great journalist you can see in the newsroom behind me here.

00:50:02.320 Thank you very much for joining us today.

00:50:03.920 And God bless.

00:50:04.740 We'll be right back.

THE PIPELINE： NDP faces financial apocalypse

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