Western Standard - The Pipeline： Trudeau blinks first

00:00:00.000 Good evening, I'm Nigel Hannaford, Opinion Editor at the Western Standard.

00:00:28.760 it's wednesday march the 22nd 2003 you are watching pipeline a weekly look at what's going

00:00:37.000 on in canadian politics but from the western angle in the absence of publisher derek phildebrand who

00:00:43.960 is hobnobbing in ottawa at the uh true north i beg your pardon the old uh what is it called dave

00:00:53.160 strong and canada strong and free strong and free conference he's there with my two old bosses

00:00:57.560 Stephen Harper and Conrad Black. And Corey Morgan has given us a doctor's note, so you've got me.

00:01:04.940 And I'm joined here today by our news editor, Dave Naylor, who's obviously well-known to

00:01:10.100 Western Standard readers. And good afternoon, Dave. Good afternoon, Nigel. I'm a bit intimidated,

00:01:17.340 I must admit, to be surrounded by such intellectual giants. Dave, just be glad that

00:01:24.060 You're bringing the average age down.

00:01:26.080 Yes.

00:01:27.040 How often do you get a chance to do that?

00:01:28.900 And lack of gray hair, too.

00:01:30.520 But it's coming.

00:01:31.640 Yes.

00:01:32.480 Anyway, so Dave, well-known, as we say,

00:01:35.940 and especially warm welcome to special guest,

00:01:39.740 Professor Tom Flanagan.

00:01:41.640 Again, somebody no stranger to this audience.

00:01:44.160 How many years did you teach political science at USC, Tom?

00:01:47.140 I lost track, but it's about 55.

00:01:50.420 55 years of political oh boy and uh you also worked for stephen harper i did for a few years

00:01:58.500 yes and uh i never worked for conrad black but i was interviewed by him by once once

00:02:05.540 tom you are one of us okay this evening we're going to be talking about some big things that

00:02:10.500 are happening but uh in order the prime minister has given his chief of staff katie telford

00:02:17.300 permission to testify to a parliamentary committee about what the PM knew and when the PMO knew

00:02:25.800 about alleged Chinese electoral interference. Will we learn what we want to know? Also back

00:02:33.660 in Ottawa, the Supreme Court of Canada will be reviewing the Alberta Court of Appeals decision

00:02:40.180 which found bill 69 the no pipelines act to be unconstitutional will they agree what does it

00:02:48.980 mean for alberta if they don't and then we want to talk about the university of calgary and some

00:02:55.220 rather different messaging that seems to be coming out of the administration these days

00:03:00.260 seems a bit woke but is it we'll get some opinions going about that first however i would like to

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00:04:15.380 so gentlemen let's get to it item one katie telfer dave what what's been going on it was a

00:04:22.580 The game of chicken, everybody in the country was watching over the last few weeks.

00:04:28.100 The Commons Committee has been holding hearings on Chinese interference in Canadian elections,

00:04:32.980 and they wanted to hear from Trudeau's chief of staff, Katie Telford.

00:04:37.300 The Liberals appeared not to want her to have to testify.

00:04:41.440 They did more than 24 hours of filibustering.

00:04:44.280 That's a lot of fillets to be busted.

00:04:47.660 At the committee to stop this going to a vote.

00:04:51.800 The Tories then decided to bring it up for a vote in the House, and they had block support,

00:04:58.200 and the NDP said they were going to support it too if Telford didn't agree to testify.

00:05:03.740 Well, lo and behold, a few hours before the vote, PMO issued a statement saying that she was going to be allowed to testify.

00:05:11.100 So, of course, the NDP quickly switched their vote and voted no against the motion.

00:05:17.360 So she'll be testifying in the next week or so.

00:05:20.900 And, you know, I'm betting we get the American version of taking the fifth.

00:05:26.880 And she will repeatedly say, I can't answer that because of national security.

00:05:31.720 So where it gets us, I don't know.

00:05:33.940 Well, that's kind of a pessimistic outlook.

00:05:36.060 Tom, do you see any hope that we'll get to know what we want to know out of this operation?

00:05:42.100 Not much.

00:05:42.980 she will one thing she may have is a bad memory we've seen this from other high civil servants

00:05:50.920 or political staffers who've been brought to testify parliamentary committees and they just

00:05:58.100 can't remember it's amazing how their memory has declined you wonder how they can be employed

00:06:03.280 but that would be my prediction since we don't have a fifth amendment as such

00:06:08.200 she may say she doesn't remember she may say that she can't answer because of

00:06:13.900 security implications which is always a you know a hard one to crack

00:06:17.980 so you know we may learn that be true in fact yeah might even be true yeah and so we may learn

00:06:24.360 something but uh i doubt that we will learn as much as people hope we will learn this is all

00:06:31.740 sort of symbolic politics it is important though because you know what it did it demonstrated the

00:06:38.020 fragility of the ndp liberal coalition the prime minister changed his mind because it became apparent

00:06:44.500 that the ndp uh was going to vote to call katie telford so that meant that the government would

00:06:54.100 have been defeated on a motion in the house now that's not automatically a confidence motion so

00:07:00.100 that doesn't mean that the government needs to fall but it does show that the government can be

00:07:05.620 defeated i think it's something that you'd like to avoid uh so that's my reading of it

00:07:11.780 but i as i say i don't expect to learn that much from katie telford's appearance yes that would

00:07:18.740 have been a really bad story if they'd have lost a vote absolutely yeah it looks but it would look

00:07:23.860 terrible and uh does as i say it doesn't mean the government falls but it's something they would

00:07:29.060 like to avoid to keep their coalition together because they've got to keep it together until

00:07:34.180 2025 you know until the next election they would prefer to keep it going until then tom what do

00:07:40.260 what do you think of the uh appointment of the trudeau family friend uh former governor general

00:07:47.060 what is a special reporter anyway david johnson is uh is uh has got this what i assume is a fairly

00:07:54.580 plung job yeah well i guess it's it's whatever he wants to make it uh that it's not a well-defined

00:08:03.220 role i mean it doesn't doesn't have any formal legislative um thinking david johnston is uh

00:08:11.060 i you know i think a very distinguished person he was dean of law at mcgill he was

00:08:18.180 by everybody agreed that he was a fine governor general um i think he will do his best to be

00:08:24.820 impartial here it's more the the optics that it's uh johnson's and the trudeaus were old family

00:08:33.260 friends uh he was on the ward of the uh trudeau foundation for a while just um the optics are

00:08:42.780 wrong uh but i don't want to say anything critical of david johnson except perhaps he shouldn't have

00:08:49.460 accepted the appointment, but it's, you know, the old saying, justice must not only be done,

00:08:56.220 but must be seen to be done. And so no matter what his report is, people will immediately

00:09:02.100 start to criticize it and say that he wasn't objective, even if he did his best to be objective.

00:09:08.720 So it's... Does he actually have the powers to do the job in the fullest possible sense?

00:09:16.480 like can he compel testimony no i don't think so and he's it's not a judicial role no i don't

00:09:20.880 think he has that kind of power it's it's a you know he can investigate uh he he can talk to

00:09:27.920 officials uh but beyond that it's not clear to me what he actually it's another delay you know i

00:09:37.600 think one of the things the liberals are doing here is they're ragging the puck they're just

00:09:42.000 want to drag this out until something else comes up that makes people forget about it

00:09:46.280 and they hope that it won't become a serious issue at election time so appointing a special

00:09:52.420 rapporteur is another way of of ragging the buck so if we could beam you into the um office of the

00:09:59.760 leader of the loyal opposition and he were to say to you what do you think we should how do

00:10:05.900 how do we bring this government to bear you've had years of this kind of experience what would

00:10:11.100 you tell them well i think the the opposition has done a good job on this issue in in the sense that

00:10:17.940 they have forced a split between the liberals and the ndp and they are bringing miss telford in to

00:10:24.280 testify so i guess i would say let's wait and see what she says and then um probably we will turn

00:10:33.300 our attack dogs loose uh on whatever it is that she said or didn't say and we will keep this going

00:10:43.380 um the danger is that people will lose interest so we have to find a way to uh to keep it alive

00:10:51.700 and so the liberals want to drag it out so that people do lose interest

00:10:56.580 sure there'll be another scandal coming right down the road the way this government goes yeah

00:11:00.980 i'm sure there will be well if you notice how things work dave you you know you there's scandal

00:11:06.580 and scandal and scandal you must have had a dozen of them and i bet most people couldn't name you

00:11:11.860 three but what they do remember is that there have been scandals and that's how a government

00:11:17.300 loses its reputation people just get every bad thing that comes along they're there they go again

00:11:26.020 And they give themselves a bad name, and I think it's going to have serious consequences.

00:11:32.020 I believe the polls are starting to show it, aren't they?

00:11:35.220 Every poll has got the Tories in front.

00:11:37.580 Well, that's one course that events may take, is the accretion of small scandals until a government gets a reputation for a scandal.

00:11:48.780 It is, however, possible for the big one to surface.

00:11:51.940 And that's what happened when the Harper government was first elected.

00:11:56.020 In 2006, it was in the wake of revelations about the Liberals using public money in Quebec for political purposes.

00:12:05.400 The ad scam business, employing advertising firms with public money.

00:12:10.420 So that was the big one.

00:12:13.340 And of course, you're always hoping that there will be the big one.

00:12:16.140 But if the big one doesn't surface, then the accretion of many is also good when a government becomes known for scandal.

00:12:23.840 And I think that's probably where we're headed now.

00:12:27.520 Is this not the big one, Chinese interference as far as high up as the PMO maybe?

00:12:33.940 I don't think it is the big one.

00:12:36.140 I think it's the big one in Ottawa because it involves senior political staff,

00:12:42.860 maybe the prime minister himself.

00:12:46.400 I mean, in a way, it obviously involves the prime minister himself.

00:12:49.340 He's in charge.

00:12:50.740 And these things happened while he was prime minister.

00:12:53.840 So clearly he's involved.

00:12:56.100 What kind of traction it has in the rest of the country,

00:12:59.020 I mean, it doesn't affect anybody's paycheck.

00:13:01.940 It's not a bread and butter issue of the kind

00:13:04.400 that often determine elections.

00:13:07.480 So it's more, I think, for the political class

00:13:10.640 that get wrapped up in this kind of thing.

00:13:13.700 You know, that's a really, if we had more time,

00:13:17.160 we could go deeper on that point.

00:13:19.260 I'd like to think that although obviously paycheck policies are the ones that trigger a vote one way or the other,

00:13:28.220 I get the impression that Canadians are scandalized at the possibility that their election could have been interfered with by anybody,

00:13:38.440 especially by the People's Republic of China.

00:13:41.800 Do you not think there's got a little more traction than that?

00:13:46.480 Well, I haven't seen it that way.

00:13:48.240 you know i'm old i'm out of touch i don't talk to that many people anymore i'm retired

00:13:53.200 so maybe i'm just out of the loop so what i know about it comes mainly from what i

00:13:58.160 what i read in the media um that's my impression of it is that it's a a political class issue

00:14:06.160 rather than what would turn it into a voters issue is voters are scandalized by dishonesty

00:14:15.520 some scandals don't touch them when they seem just like a question of who got appointed and

00:14:22.700 you know it seems like inside baseball but voters uh do get aroused when they sense dishonesty

00:14:30.160 and so if the conservatives can spin this not and not just the conservatives but other parties

00:14:36.600 can spin this as liberal dishonesty and liberals are lying to you so that's close to a breakthrough

00:14:44.740 then what would seal it is evidence of people making off with money, loot, loot.

00:14:53.100 That's what sealed the ad scam scandal.

00:14:56.460 That's what made it the big one, is that the liberals were actually taking public money.

00:15:01.880 Now, we haven't seen that yet, but if it appears that there is some aspect of bribery in this,

00:15:08.260 some quid pro quo and we're seeing this in the united states with uh in very slow motion the

00:15:15.460 biden family scandal um it's looking more and more as if they're going to be able to demonstrate

00:15:20.760 that uh there's money given for special consideration that kind of thing is deadly

00:15:27.340 so that's what i would the opposition parties will be hoping that they can that they can find that

00:15:34.120 Great points, Tom.

00:15:37.380 I guess we'll see what she says, but I think like you, I'm pessimistic, we'll have a real

00:15:43.920 revelation there, but let's move on to pipelines, because this could easily be kind of a matter

00:15:50.320 of whether we keep the lights on in Alberta in 10 years' time.

00:15:54.580 Dave, I get all the bills mixed up, Bill 48, Bill 69, you know.

00:15:59.620 Well, 69 is the tanker ban, isn't it?

00:16:01.960 Or is it the pipeline?

00:16:02.900 48, yeah, see, you're going to like it.

00:16:05.020 48 was the tanker ban.

00:16:07.000 69 is, they call it, the no more pipelines ban.

00:16:09.920 All right.

00:16:10.620 It's much broader than that, but it's...

00:16:12.840 Yeah, well, that's in the Supreme Court this week.

00:16:16.440 Alberta...

00:16:17.160 Okay, but first it went to the Alberta...

00:16:19.600 Yeah, Alberta government sued the Liberals.

00:16:23.420 It went to the Alberta Court of Appeal,

00:16:26.420 and Alberta won four to one.

00:16:29.620 Of course, it was taken up to the Supreme Court where their hearings started on Wednesday.

00:16:35.960 So it won't be, obviously, probably a few months until a verdict is reached.

00:16:42.680 It can be that quick.

00:16:43.580 Well, you know, keep in mind there's one of them missing, right?

00:16:48.660 The Western Justice, Justice Brown, has got himself in an altercation in Arizona

00:16:57.180 where there was an alleged scuffle. So he is not in his seat at the moment under investigation.

00:17:04.140 So, you know, I think Premier Smith was mentioning, you know, she hopes his

00:17:09.980 absence isn't going to be the sway vote that the West would have had.

00:17:14.140 I want to come back to what Premier Smith was saying yesterday in a few moments, but

00:17:18.940 before we do that tom um you know later first what are the implications of what the supreme court is

00:17:27.260 considering what does it mean for alberta yeah well bill c69 is a long complex piece of legislation

00:17:35.500 many implications but i think what's what's really important is that it extends federal jurisdiction

00:17:43.500 over impact assessment into projects which are within the boundaries of province now it's it's

00:17:51.260 clear that the federal government has jurisdiction over things like interprovincial pipelines

00:17:57.580 which they have used to kill several pipeline proposals but that's always been clear that

00:18:02.940 things like interprovincial railways hydro corridors pipelines those are

00:18:07.740 international interprovincial and international those are under federal jurisdiction but

00:18:13.260 one would have thought reading the constitution that the provinces have jurisdiction within their

00:18:17.660 own boundaries so if the provinces want to authorize a new pipeline from a gas field in

00:18:24.300 northern alberta to drive a power plant somewhere else within the province that that would just be

00:18:29.900 a provincial matter the the new legislation allows the federal commission to override

00:18:37.340 provincial jurisdiction and to impose a federal environmental review which could include

00:18:47.500 emissions carbon emissions now the feds may not do this in every case we don't know how widely

00:18:54.780 they would use this power it's a power that they could use but presumably they had a reason for

00:19:00.300 passing it and my guess is that anything big would be subject to federal impact assessment

00:19:08.540 on top of the provincial so it it gums up the word the least it does is it comes up the work

00:19:13.980 and extends things um at worst become it could become a virtual veto power and this involves

00:19:20.940 i think this is important to grasp it's not just alberta and the oil industry but this applies

00:19:26.380 to all industries that have environmental impacts so for example in ontario premier ford

00:19:33.180 wants to open up parts of northern ontario for mining and he's been working at that and seems

00:19:39.740 to be getting close perhaps to getting partnership with some of the first nations up there so they

00:19:45.420 can build the roads and dig the mines but these are big big projects for uh you know relatively

00:19:51.740 rare metals that require you to move a lot of earth in order to get it right well that would

00:19:55.980 be that would come under federal control now the feds might like that project because it's for 0.99

00:20:02.940 batteries um and electric vehicles so you know maybe it would maybe they wouldn't get in the way

00:20:09.180 but potentially uh provinces province developmental plans will now be under federal jurisdiction

00:20:16.700 uh quebec hydro quebec um they want to do a new hydro project for power within quebec it would be

00:20:24.140 subject perhaps to to federal review so that's why eight out of ten provinces are well seven

00:20:31.180 other provinces are supporting alberta in this hearing um and i i don't think it will end here

00:20:38.860 even if the supreme court upholds c69 which i think it will based on its past record whether

00:20:46.220 russell brown is there or not i think it will actually uphold it but when that many and

00:20:52.140 including all the big provinces are opposed to it there will be political repercussions later on

00:20:57.980 i can't say exactly what but the provinces will be discussing ways that they can use their

00:21:04.300 remaining powers to strike back so i don't think the story ends here well that's a

00:21:10.220 That is a relief that it doesn't end there, but how does it play out?

00:21:17.140 Well, it's in the short and medium term.

00:21:19.340 I don't know whether the Sovereignty Act applies in this case, does it?

00:21:22.660 Who knows?

00:21:24.040 In the short run, I don't think much has happened.

00:21:27.600 It doesn't stop business that's ongoing, where it might be involved, let's say,

00:21:32.020 a big new development in the oil sands, opening up of a new,

00:21:37.000 whether it was was subterranean with heated steam or whether it's a surface pit that i think you'd

00:21:43.640 see the feds getting involved there so within a few years there probably would be some kind

00:21:50.760 of conflict between provincial aspirations and federal regulation um but i think it's

00:21:57.640 always a mistake to be chicken little because in the meantime there's going to be an election

00:22:01.240 If a new government comes in, they might amend to relax those powers.

00:22:08.500 Those powers, they say, are not mandatory.

00:22:11.360 Ultimately, it's going to depend on who's in power.

00:22:13.740 If the liberals are still in power, they will appoint the commission.

00:22:18.500 Then the commission will recommend that an environmental assessment be done.

00:22:22.400 Ultimately, it's up to the minister to make the final decision.

00:22:25.740 So if you have different people at the top, you could avert confrontation for, you know, for some period of time, and they might repeal or amend it, just as Brian Mulroney's government repealed the National Energy Program.

00:22:45.620 Took time.

00:22:47.760 A lot of things were lost in the meantime, but ultimately it was repealed.

00:22:52.680 So I think it's a mistake to, you know, to give up hope.

00:22:56.580 I think the political process may come into play.

00:22:59.500 But, you know, I can't, my weakness as a pundit was I could never foretell the future.

00:23:05.560 See, I'm an expert at telling you why the past had to happen as it did.

00:23:11.940 So bring me out to talk about the history.

00:23:14.520 I've got an explanation for everything.

00:23:16.600 Well, the future, I don't know.

00:23:18.080 Well, for the future, let me just pass it over to Dave here for a moment,

00:23:21.120 because yesterday premier smith was answering questions after an announcement on a different

00:23:27.920 matter and somebody asked her about this very very business and what they asked was

00:23:36.800 the they referenced what she said on a on a radio program and asked what it would mean

00:23:46.880 for alberta in practical terms i mean tom has just explained the grand theory of the thing the yeah

00:23:53.120 the court could probably do this and maybe it could be repealed later but you know we want we

00:24:00.320 want power in this province our population is growing there is a strong urge by the federal

00:24:08.640 government to electrify everything that moves and even our homes that don't we're going to need more

00:24:14.560 power one of the easiest places and one of the cleanest places for us to get the power

00:24:22.400 from gas fire generating plants what did she have to say about that well energy security

00:24:28.240 seems to be coming more and more uh an issue for her and i know it's one of your uh your

00:24:34.320 your favorite issues too and it's you know and it's the future is kind of scary without these

00:24:42.240 these new plants who's going to power the electric vehicles you know oh because it's crazy numbers

00:24:48.400 that they want to reach only by by 2030 and you know what it's really not just alberta it's what

00:24:55.520 alberta can offer the world uh you know japan came to ask for natural gas no it's no no business plan

00:25:03.040 uh you know germany came oh sorry no business plan well if there is a proper business plan

00:25:08.960 Alberta can supply gas to anyone that needs it, basically, and then the money would flow into Alberta.

00:25:17.700 And I think Premier Smith was saying today, you know, if we'd have had the ability to do this at the start of the Heritage Savings Trust Fund,

00:25:25.260 it would now be $300 billion, and we'd be sitting on money like Norway sits on money from their energy reserves.

00:25:34.320 But, you know, it's got to become common knowledge that Alberta has this ability.

00:25:41.200 And, you know, let us give us the wings and let us fly and see what we can do.

00:25:46.080 Tom, do you think that energy security gets any traction as an election issue?

00:25:50.720 Do people get it?

00:25:52.200 Well, I think in Alberta they do.

00:25:53.820 Outside of Alberta, probably not.

00:25:55.960 Maybe in Saskatchewan.

00:25:58.340 But in the rest of the country, I don't think so.

00:26:00.980 I don't think the energy industry is appreciated.

00:26:03.280 I think until they can't keep the lights on, then it will become appreciated

00:26:09.660 if they're having energy blackouts and so on.

00:26:13.760 But until they feel it, it's not appreciated just by talking about it.

00:26:18.160 It's only appreciated when they begin to feel it.

00:26:20.680 Well, she made some reference yesterday to there being a, we didn't have a brown,

00:26:26.960 but we came close to one just before Christmas.

00:26:29.280 Yes.

00:26:30.220 That, to me, would seem like a failure on behalf of provincial government.

00:26:35.220 We ever get to the stage where that could happen.

00:26:37.220 Yeah, it's pretty scary.

00:26:39.420 Pretty scary.

00:26:40.380 We're getting to that point.

00:26:41.680 And, you know, it probably can happen.

00:26:45.140 I mean, it has happened in places like Texas that you would think of as bastion of the energy industry.

00:26:52.060 Weather is very unpredictable.

00:26:56.080 Crazy things can happen.

00:26:57.940 Bring on the nukes.

00:26:59.560 yes we'll bring on the small nuclear uh module reactors yes those would be a big benefit the oil

00:27:06.520 sand if i i mean i i don't know the price equation but uh if it's if it's uh affordable

00:27:14.600 that you would have be able to heat the steam that you need for bringing the oil up from the ground

00:27:20.040 without adding to carbon emissions so you sort of win-win all the way around if it

00:27:25.960 so we'll have to wait and see whether these things become practical i mean there are many things um

00:27:32.120 that work in prototype but they can't be scaled up for some reason or other so i guess we're gonna

00:27:37.720 have to wait and see on that okay all right well the other thing that we've been that's been

00:27:43.560 occupying us this week we had a very um a column from uh actually the old colleague of yours dr

00:27:49.320 Barry Cooper, very critical of the way that the administration at the University of Calgary is

00:27:57.320 thinking. We know they, for example, have got a race-based hiring system that in one job added

00:28:05.160 actually said white men need not apply. I was devastated. What do you see going on up there

00:28:12.280 on the hill, Dave? Well, apparently it seems to be becoming one of Canada's most woke universities.

00:28:19.320 um you know uh full admission i never went to any university so i'm not sure what exactly goes

00:28:27.800 better journalists because yeah probably but so i'm not exactly sure what goes in those hallowed

00:28:32.280 hallowed halls of learning but uh and it's not just the ufc there's all sorts of uh of woke

00:28:38.920 stuff coming on basically every campus uh across the country and uh ufc seems to jump on board

00:28:47.240 You know, we've done stories on those ads you've talked about, the white men do not apply, and racial-based hiring, and it's all part of the new woke generation, I guess.

00:28:59.700 And, you know, eminent people like Barry Cooper, and I'm sure Professor Flanagan may have opposing views, let's say.

00:29:10.820 And change is never easy, but some of the changes seem to be a bit strange.

00:29:15.080 Well, I think Barry's point was that they're so busy planning

00:29:17.620 for the future that they're no longer interested

00:29:19.580 in studying the past.

00:29:20.840 And just a few moments ago, Tom, you were saying, ask me something.

00:29:24.340 Okay, so I'm asking you, what do you see going on there?

00:29:27.480 Tom Hanks Yeah.

00:29:28.780 Well, you know, to be honest, I'm glad I'm retired.

00:29:32.120 I'd probably be in constant conflict if I were still a member.

00:29:38.020 Barry and I are old friends.

00:29:40.220 We were in graduate school together.

00:29:41.620 So I've known Barry for almost 60 years, and he likes to stir the pot.

00:29:47.400 So he may write it up in provocative language, but basically what he says is true.

00:29:54.860 The university is going in that woke direction, and you pointed to the special hiring plan.

00:30:02.020 One of the things behind that is that the administration has bulked itself up

00:30:10.680 by hiring a series of vice presidents to deal with particular woke issues.

00:30:18.640 Vice president for indigenous affairs or whatever.

00:30:21.380 I don't have all the exact titles in front of me.

00:30:24.400 Most recent was a vice president for diversity, inclusion, and equity.

00:30:31.140 equity, yeah. You know, so these, these, these positions overlap and interlock, but you create

00:30:38.020 then a number of people who are paid to do something. So they have meetings with each other

00:30:44.880 and they generate new, new policies. This has been happening at all universities in North America

00:30:54.560 and United States and Canada. I think it's been worse elsewhere, but maybe the University of

00:31:00.180 Calgary is going to start to play catch up.

00:31:02.140 I always felt when I was teaching there that University of Calgary was largely immune to these trends.

00:31:09.520 They never seemed to wash up on our shore, so to speak.

00:31:12.800 So I didn't worry about it too much.

00:31:15.020 But I think that has changed.

00:31:18.800 So I think the university is going to be going with the pack now.

00:31:21.760 Well, let me ask you this.

00:31:22.980 Somebody who was in a position to have a qualified opinion told me that if they didn't do this,

00:31:30.180 anytime that their researchers were applying for grants through federal programs they would

00:31:37.540 probably not get the grant because the university didn't follow this whole business of diversity

00:31:43.380 inclusion equity do you think that's yeah oh i think that's absolutely true and this is this

00:31:48.500 is something that i ran into so the federal government is actually buying the point of

00:31:52.020 view they want but i yeah absolutely they in my late years of teaching i started to run into this

00:32:00.100 um there were all kinds of reviews for research projects that were imposed

00:32:06.260 because of uh federal involvement in financing in one memorable case i had a grad student who

00:32:12.580 wanted to go out to the nishka and study their their experiments with private property 1.00

00:32:18.500 but the nishka said they they wouldn't let her on until um she completed a review on

00:32:25.780 on campus, the campus wouldn't approve the project

00:32:29.280 until she had permission from the NSHCA to go there.

00:32:33.640 So she finally quit graduate school and went back to Ottawa

00:32:38.020 where she had a job.

00:32:40.140 But yeah, this kind of presence is pervasive.

00:32:44.240 And it's hard for administrators

00:32:46.380 of the university to resist it.

00:32:49.780 You'd almost have to have a university like,

00:32:53.540 What's the one in the United States, Hillsdale in Michigan, which is, you know, puts itself completely outside the funding system and relies on private funding.

00:33:02.420 We haven't had anything like that in Canada yet.

00:33:04.840 Our big universities are all creatures of, we have some small universities who are perhaps a little bit more independent,

00:33:11.500 but the big ones are all really dependent on this federal grant money.

00:33:17.120 So do you think that, let's not make it too easy for the UCP, but if they put money into universities and enveloped it for research, but did not have these kinds of restrictions applied to it, is that a way forward?

00:33:37.480 Could be. I think it would require the support of the provincial government.

00:33:42.600 the provincial government is the main funder the funding for research a lot of it comes federally

00:33:48.520 but the provincial government is still the main funder of the university so if the provincial

00:33:53.480 government started exerting a little more control I mean for example universities including U of C

00:34:01.400 always cry poor that they need larger grants now if the province would say look how can you cry

00:34:07.080 poor when you just added three new vice presidential positions each one is paying

00:34:13.240 i don't know probably 200 000 plus a year plus each vice president gets um an executive assistant

00:34:21.320 and a director and you know so you get budgetary implications of close to a million dollars by the

00:34:27.160 time you're done how can you cry poor when you keep adding these positions i think the province

00:34:33.000 you know these these are provincial institutions they are chartered by the problems they are

00:34:38.040 ultimately uh to be controlled by the people of alberta through provincial government and sure

00:34:45.560 institutional autonomy is important but when it's abused it seems to me the province uh ought to be

00:34:51.720 stepping in and that's my view of a like the university of calgary asking for more money i mean

00:34:58.680 I mean, sure, I want to see money for teaching and what's necessary,

00:35:04.600 but I know that a lot of that money is going for purposes that I think are wasteful.

00:35:09.840 So I say, come on down, province.

00:35:12.740 That's why we elected you people.

00:35:14.920 Let's see what you can do.

00:35:16.500 Dave, that sounds like an editorial to me.

00:35:18.960 Better get writing, Nigel.

00:35:20.280 Well, it also sounds like a news story.

00:35:22.640 That's the right people, so I'm going to turn that one over to you as well.

00:35:27.220 We work on that together, Tom.

00:35:28.680 OK.

00:35:29.680 Look, this has been great.

00:35:30.680 Thank you so much, Dave.

00:35:31.680 Thank you for having me.

00:35:32.680 I know you love to give up an hour of your Wednesday afternoon.

00:35:36.880 So it's all those stories waiting to be published for our readers.

00:35:41.180 And Tom, I hope you'll come back again.

00:35:43.180 This has been a pleasure.

00:35:44.180 OK.

00:35:45.180 Fun to do it.

00:35:46.180 Great to have your input.

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00:37:01.940 this evening it's been a pleasure to have you watching and you gentlemen talking so that's it

00:37:08.360 for the western standard i'm nigel hannaford the current lethbridge feed grain prices are as

00:37:14.100 follows cash barley is flat at 412 feed wheat is lower two dollars at 410 and corn steady at 415

00:37:22.340 dollars per ton in the milling wheat markets may minneapolis futures are down seven and three

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Western Standard - March 23, 2023

The Pipeline： Trudeau blinks first

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