Western Standard - The terrible cost of transitioning comes later

00:00:00.000 Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, a weekly politics show.

00:00:10.680 My guests this week are Faith Groulo and Kelly Lynn Pirrie. And before I go any further,

00:00:18.400 I should warn viewers that some of this may be hard to watch. Faith and Kelly Lynn

00:00:26.140 are women who transitioned to present themselves as males, regretted it, and have transitioned

00:00:34.180 back again. The experience has been difficult, painful, and a profound well of regret for both

00:00:42.460 of them. And they are not back where they started. That is, it is not now all as if it had never

00:00:51.720 happened. For the benefit of others, however, they join me today to tell their stories.

00:00:59.620 Faith, Kelly Lynn, welcome to the show. Thank you.

00:01:03.460 Faith, can I start with you? Just tell us, please, what happened?

00:01:09.180 So I was gender questioning by about 15 years old. I had found a show called I Am Jazz. And so science

00:01:15.860 was telling me that this little boy could be a little girl. And I believed that the doctors

00:01:20.580 wouldn't do it if it wasn't okay. So I was justified in my thinking that going against

00:01:26.320 my religious family was okay, that their concerns were just because they were old fuddy duddies 0.99

00:01:31.860 and they didn't know what they were talking about. So by 16, I was seeing doctors and I was given

00:01:37.640 puberty blockers. By 17 and 18, I had been approved for top surgery and I was given testosterone,

00:01:43.640 which is the cross-sex or wrong sex hormone for me. And by 18, I had aged out of the clinic because

00:01:51.980 it was specifically for youth. So the doctors who diagnosed me and prescribed my medications did not

00:01:56.820 follow up with me. I was deemed a successful transition to them. However, by 2020, because of

00:02:03.420 COVID, the testosterone I was getting, they ran out of the vials. So I had to get a more expensive

00:02:08.360 medication that I couldn't afford. So I was changing medications without much supervision.

00:02:15.400 And then it was changing the dosage as well, without much supervision. By 22 years old, I realized

00:02:22.260 I didn't need to rush and I really wasn't using it consistently. So I stopped all medications.

00:02:28.840 And I, around 23, 24, found some information that basically solidified the idea to me that my

00:02:37.360 doctors didn't really know what they were doing, essentially allowed me to diagnose myself

00:02:42.060 incorrectly and just affirmed that rather than actually questioning any of it. And so I began to

00:02:49.360 detransition April of this year, actually, and started to come back out as my natural self.

00:02:55.520 What does it mean to detransition?

00:02:58.500 Stopping all medications and no longer further pursuing any surgical or chemical changes.

00:03:04.980 And I believe you told me earlier that you had not had any kind of surgery.

00:03:11.020 Correct.

00:03:11.560 Okay. Kelly Lynn, can I ask you then, please, what's your story?

00:03:17.580 I grew up, I'm an adult who lives with a history of childhood sexual exploitation. In that house,

00:03:23.600 there was a lot of abuse, drugs, and alcohol. When my mother left her pedophile husband, 0.88

00:03:31.400 he went to jail for sexually interfering with me. Then she got back together with my biological dad. He 0.56

00:03:38.760 also was an alcoholic. My 20s, my 30s were cycles of drugs, alcohol, sobriety, relapse, and just circling

00:03:49.240 in that. In my early 30s in 2002, I got clean and sober. And in that process, the degree of social

00:04:00.600 anxiety, the discomfort I was living in women's support recovery, and it felt like the emotions

00:04:07.560 of the people around me were just happening to me. And I met some individuals who were transitioning

00:04:14.200 themselves. And I was asking them about it. And they're like, oh, people who question,

00:04:23.160 like, you're wondering if you really are a woman. And the only people who are trans question that.

00:04:30.600 And then when I spoke with my drug and alcohol counselor about that, she was in what's called

00:04:35.480 the affirmation model. So she affirmed that, of course, a man living in a sport recovery house

00:04:41.480 would be incredibly uncomfortable. It wasn't about my, like, I look back now and I realize that I

00:04:48.120 wasn't able to regulate my emotions around so many other people. So I was constantly trying to control

00:04:53.400 the other women. So just affirming my discomfort with my sex as it being about 0.94

00:05:00.760 the envy I had for men was this feeling of being a male.

00:05:07.560 Okay. I think, I think a lot of women do see advantages in being male. You have obviously both 0.77

00:05:18.600 looked at it from a male point of view, as well as a female view. How would you answer them if they

00:05:25.560 said to you, oh, so I want to be a man because, and then cited off all these advantages that they

00:05:31.960 perceive. I start again with you. I would first ask if they know all of the risks,

00:05:39.000 truly of what they might be doing to themselves, which unfortunately you can't possibly because we

00:05:45.000 haven't had proper clinical trials. So nobody really knows long term what happens to kids who are

00:05:50.600 on these drugs. And any information we have is not too great. And how about, how would you answer

00:05:58.120 them, Kelly? What motivates men to do the things they do to make the sacrifices they make for their

00:06:07.080 career is very different than what motivates women. I learned that during my years as a long-haul 1.00

00:06:12.760 trucker. I was in a specialized industry where 90 percent of my colleagues were men.

00:06:17.160 So you were a truck driver as a woman? No, when I looked like a man, when I had a six-inch beard,

00:06:23.480 all of my co-workers thought I was a man. I really learned that men and women think very differently

00:06:31.400 about stuff. I'd worked there for about five years and one of my colleagues commented that you realize,

00:06:37.400 my legal name then was Kenneth. So he's like, you realize, Ken, that we are all very afraid of you.

00:06:42.840 And I'm like, why? I'm like, so calm, so easy going. He's like, exactly. No one has even seen you

00:06:49.720 mildly upset. So they were convinced that if they ever upset me, I would just explode because I've

00:06:57.480 never been in the hierarchy and figuring out where guys get mildly upset and aggressive towards each

00:07:03.000 other and they figure out where they are in the QE. And of my 45 co-workers, nobody knew where I was in

00:07:09.320 the QE. So it was a moment of going, men think about things very differently than women do. Even 0.66

00:07:15.880 looking like a man, even being on testosterone, I didn't understand their world and their worldview.

00:07:21.160 I don't want to make light of this in any way, but who knew? This is such an important decision

00:07:32.120 that especially a young person would make, that you've told us that the doctors didn't give you

00:07:40.360 very good advice. You've said that your parents were, you described them as old-fashioned fuddy-duddies who

00:07:47.080 went to church. I can imagine what their advice to you would have been. And then you mentioned a

00:07:56.680 program that you had seen, a jazz or something. I am jazz. I am jazz. What is that? So jazz Jennings

00:08:03.960 is an individual who was transitioned when they were younger. Born a boy, about two years old. Mom saw

00:08:11.480 little boy dressing in dresses, playing dress up with his sisters, and said, oh dear, he must be a girl.

00:08:20.440 And ended up taking him to doctors who transitioned him at a very, very young age, started

00:08:24.680 re-blockers, gave the cross-sex hormones, eventually had surgeries. This was all televised on TLC.

00:08:31.400 All of it. All of the surgeries. A 17-year-old little kid. So it, that made it seem very, very normal and

00:08:41.880 commonplace. Not only that doctors were doing this surgery, but it was being televised like it was

00:08:46.760 nothing, you know. And jazz seems extremely happy in these videos, for the most part, because that's

00:08:53.480 how it's supposed to be portrayed. Where is he now? Yeah, there's been some emotional issues.

00:09:04.120 Even in the shows nearing the end of it, it was seeming like this poor kid didn't know who they were,

00:09:11.000 and didn't feel like themselves. And mom just kept saying, oh no, it's okay. You're exactly who we say

00:09:15.960 you are. Don't worry about it. It's okay. Like, there was no attempt at dealing with the emotional

00:09:21.480 distress. It was just continue affirming whatever's been done. And that's just, you know, you can only

00:09:28.520 do that for so long. So he's a physiologically mature, 20, early 20s, right? I think he's 19, 20.

00:09:37.800 Yeah, I believe he's younger than I am. Unable of experiencing arousal. Like, neurologically

00:09:46.440 incapable from the drugs and the surgery. So cannot mate bond with another human being.

00:09:55.000 Well, that would seem to be, first of all, I think the scope and scale of this is that around about

00:10:01.240 the five-year period from 2018 to 2023, according to the government of Canada, there were 600

00:10:09.400 young women under the age of 18 who had sexual reassignment surgery, roughly half of which

00:10:23.000 went the whole way. What is the...

00:10:28.360 How does it... What is available to... I think we do the surgery under the provincial health programs,

00:10:38.440 but if you want to go back, do they help you do that? No? Okay. So you're... What sort of expenses

00:10:47.320 are you involved with to transition back to a woman you were? Well, what's called breast restoration surgery,

00:10:55.160 I cannot access in British Columbia without the approval of the Trans Care BC. So my doctor will be...

00:11:05.560 I'm in the stage of getting the paperwork together. My doctor will send an application into Trans Care BC,

00:11:11.400 the people in charge of transitioning, to request that I be allowed to have access to surgery to

00:11:19.400 restore the appearance of having breasts, because I had a complete bilateral mastectomy in 2008.

00:11:29.720 So, okay.

00:11:33.320 What are the physiological effects when you transition? What do you experience? How does your...

00:11:41.160 How does your way of life change? And then how does it change again when you transition back?

00:11:47.400 Now, you were just on the... You were just on the chemicals. I'm going to ask you about yours in a

00:11:52.600 moment. How does it go? Essentially, for me, I had already started puberty by the time I was 16.

00:12:02.200 So they shouldn't have given me puberty blockers anyway. And so when they did,

00:12:05.800 it completely interrupted the puberty I had already started going through. I went through menopause.

00:12:12.040 I was then given testosterone, which is a known carcinogen, and it forces you to go through a

00:12:20.040 male-like puberty, which I got a deeper voice. My facial hair and body hair started growing in darker

00:12:27.080 and thicker. I gained more muscle mass, and it was distributed differently than it would be for a woman,

00:12:34.360 which made me fit differently in clothes. But the problem is male clothes still didn't fit properly

00:12:40.840 because I had the bone structure of a woman because I didn't get the puberty blockers before puberty.

00:12:46.280 So that didn't really help anything. My balance actually went funny because if you're on puberty

00:12:55.080 blockers and testosterone, your breasts essentially deflate. And I was also using a chest binder, 0.99

00:12:59.480 so it made them squish down. So my center of balance actually got shifted. Puberty blockers,

00:13:05.640 because I did not finish out my puberty properly, it stunted my physical growth,

00:13:11.560 my emotional and mental growth. It actually keeps you stuck in a teenage-like state mentally,

00:13:17.400 because you don't grow up to be able to make those long-term decisions because you're suppressing

00:13:21.640 all of the hormones that are supposed to help you do that. With me, I actually was fortunate. I ended up

00:13:28.520 going off of the blockers a little early because I was on birth control, which did something similar,

00:13:33.400 but the doctors still didn't really know what they were doing. Just kind of let me do what I wanted

00:13:37.320 and experiment on myself. And so when I went off of the puberty blockers, my system kind of kick-started

00:13:46.360 again a little bit. So then I came out of menopause, got to go through it backwards again.

00:13:52.920 And then once I was off of testosterone, I ended up trying to finish out puberty. I'm still in the midst

00:13:59.720 of doing that in my 20s. And I'm realizing my joints haven't fused properly. I may have incontinence

00:14:06.440 issues because I've gone in and out of menopause now. And so my pelvic floor may be weakened. I may

00:14:11.560 have liver problems, potentially. That's a common side effect now. That's the testosterone, yes.

00:14:18.520 And then there's also the option of the spinal cord doesn't fuse properly all the time. And so there

00:14:24.360 are people who get compression fractures because of that, because they're not getting the proper hormones

00:14:28.360 in there. I may also be infertile, but we don't know that until I actually try to have kids.

00:14:36.440 I'm very optimistic that I'm fortunate enough not to be. But, you know, we don't actually know until I

00:14:42.520 try it. But yeah. And I'm one of the luckier ones. Like I have come out essentially unscathed in a lot

00:14:49.960 of instances compared to that. So, you know, I'm sure the worst case for those who did not come out

00:14:55.080 unscathed in a few words, what? So there were some people that I was transitioned at the same

00:15:02.360 time as who have now since attempted to detransition or desist, but the government would only cover the

00:15:09.160 actual tissue removal. If you didn't have the money to cover the reconstruction part, then you're a girl

00:15:15.720 now with no breasts or nipples. Some of them also will have hysterectomy. Some of them will have

00:15:24.440 a phallus made. There is someone in the States, Scott Nugent, what they go by, born a female,

00:15:33.400 was transitioned as an adult, made these decisions as an adult, and through all of the surgeries ended

00:15:39.080 up with horrendous infections that almost killed them several times, are now still killing them. The

00:15:44.360 forearm that the phallus was made out of is now not functional properly, and they get chronic

00:15:51.400 infections in the arm and the hand that's attached to that arm, they may have to lose that as well.

00:15:56.520 And these are decisions that an adult made, and now we're giving those complications to children.

00:16:00.920 Good gracious. Yes. Were you ever suicidal? Yes. They weaponized that completely. So

00:16:07.960 were you suicidal because you wanted to be a different gender, or were there other issues?

00:16:18.440 There were several other issues that were overlooked. So those issues were not properly diagnosed,

00:16:23.880 and you were allowed against the wishes of your parents, who would have been the most interested in

00:16:29.160 in your welfare. Do teachers have a role in this at all?

00:16:34.520 Fortunately not, but I was surrounded by a lot of people who were very into the affirmation model,

00:16:41.400 and our teachers had the signs of it's a safe space and all inclusion, and there were actually several

00:16:47.000 trans individuals in the schools that I was around. So I was exposed to it, but then there was also a local group

00:16:53.960 of there was one trans adult and a supportive adult. They had a youth group, basically, like a support

00:17:01.640 group for gender questioning or trans youth, and it was specifically for 17 and under.

00:17:07.240 Is there anybody who could have headed you off from the course of action that you took?

00:17:12.040 The doctors, absolutely. The doctors.

00:17:16.920 Is it that they don't know or that they don't care? I presume don't care. Don't care to know.

00:17:22.200 I see. Kelly Lynn, you've heard Faith's story, probably not for the first time. What's your

00:17:31.960 comment on what she experienced that you reflect upon your own experience?

00:17:37.080 Well, in a similar way as an adult, there's so much information they didn't give me.

00:17:42.360 Like they didn't tell me that, they told me that taking testosterone, I'd have the same health risks

00:17:48.200 as a male, as any other male, actually. Women on testosterone, especially with me, I have obesity. 0.98

00:17:54.920 I have a highly elevated risk of type 2 diabetes, which I now have and I'll live with for the rest

00:17:59.560 of my life. They didn't talk about how our secondary sex...

00:18:05.080 Can I stop you there? Were these doctors in general practice or are these specialists in this field?

00:18:10.120 Endocrinologist. Endocrinologist.

00:18:11.880 So these, they should have known?

00:18:14.040 Yes. And should have told you?

00:18:15.960 Yes. They would have known and they should have...

00:18:17.800 Yeah, they should have informed me and discussed with me because I already had...

00:18:22.280 Did you push hard?

00:18:25.720 I asked, what are the health risks? And I was specifically going to an endocrinologist because

00:18:34.200 I already had hypothyroidism, which is considered an autoimmune disease and type 2 diabetes is also

00:18:43.800 considered an autoimmune disease. So the proper course of action when a doctor is prescribing a new

00:18:54.440 medication or a medication off-label, when they observe something out of the normal, is to inform

00:19:01.640 the pharmaceutical company that owns the patent. This is what I'm seeing in my patient population.

00:19:08.600 It appears that that is not happening as it's intended to happen in this field. And the WPATH files

00:19:20.040 indicated the degree to which WPATH discourages the endocrinologist, it trains,

00:19:28.040 from doing this because they were actually discussing instances of liver cancer in females taking

00:19:33.800 testosterone.

00:19:36.760 We are almost out of time, which is a dreadful shame because this is a deep, very, very deep subject.

00:19:45.640 But I do want to ask you particularly, Faith,

00:19:51.000 what you think of the legislation recently put before the Alberta legislature which would restrict

00:20:02.120 children under the age of 18 from receiving the first of all surgery and I think under the age of 17

00:20:12.600 from receiving the kind of chemical interventions that you yourself received.

00:20:19.880 Are we doing a good thing here or are we sentencing frustrated young people to kill themselves because

00:20:26.200 they can't change sex when they want to? 0.93

00:20:28.200 I believe the legislations would have helped because the doctors would have been forced to

00:20:32.600 do a proper cognitive assessment. And if the doctors actually treat the suicidal ideation and the root

00:20:38.280 cause of that, for one, a lot of these kids may not even be trans in the first place. And the ones who

00:20:42.840 are will learn how to live well-rounded lives before they even have to get any chemicals.

00:20:48.200 So by the time you were 18, you might not have wanted to do this?

00:20:52.840 No, absolutely. I wasn't even sure when I went in. I simply just said to my doctors,

00:20:58.280 hey, I saw this thing online. I think this might be what it is, but you're the expert. So like,

00:21:02.920 let me know, do the testing and all that and figure it out. But they didn't test me properly.

00:21:07.880 You don't just let somebody walk in and say, I have cancer. Can I have chemo? You don't give them

00:21:11.960 chemo. You have to do a test first. But if you don't properly test them and just hand them out

00:21:16.920 all the time, like the other thing as well, me getting these drugs when I wasn't supposed to have

00:21:21.560 them, people who actually needed them now can't have them. So what kind of a test would have been

00:21:28.200 appropriate for you? Knowing I had other mental health issues, not presuming that

00:21:36.520 me being sexualized when I was young was just happenstance, because that seems to be a common

00:21:42.840 theme. And they just bring it into the diagnostics as well, saying that just seems to be a theme.

00:21:47.480 That's OK, though. You're still trans. And it's like, I wasn't, though. And if they can make a mistake 0.98

00:21:52.920 once, they can make a mistake again. And that's just unfortunate. They need to have a better system there.

00:21:57.640 Last thoughts, Kelly.

00:22:04.680 Youth need an opportunity to pause and to think. As an adult, I thought I was informed. I had no idea

00:22:15.080 how politicized the trans lobby has made research. And I am pleased to support the

00:22:26.440 policies of Premier Daniel Smith and her government and her stance to end the bullying,

00:22:35.880 especially in regards to the doctors and the researchers and the state of the research,

00:22:43.480 that there will once again be open debate about what's going on in the medical field and

00:22:49.480 for it to no longer be politicized.

00:22:53.880 Look, I think you two are incredibly brave to take your stories public and to stand out in the open

00:23:02.360 and tell them, knowing that there could very well be people who are militantly opposed to what you are

00:23:07.880 now, the message that you are now trying to put out. What is the name of your organization?

00:23:12.920 D-Trans Alliance Canada.

00:23:16.840 And do you have many members?

00:23:19.960 No.

00:23:21.800 I've got a mailing list. I've had

00:23:24.360 a small group of people reaching out to me.

00:23:27.080 The hardest part of getting something started is

00:23:33.000 we are told that it would be better death before de-transition. So it's this idea that we are

00:23:39.240 shameful for existing. I've been told telling my story is a threat to trans healthcare.

00:23:45.960 So there's a real effort to silence our voices.

00:23:49.400 There was a trans advocate at the rally the first weekend in November who was saying that

00:23:58.360 de-transitioners' voices shouldn't even be heard on this issue. 0.99

00:24:03.400 Well, that's a pretty common reaction from the left when they hear something that they can't answer.

00:24:12.440 One last question that I know some of our viewers are going to want to know are things with mum and dad.

00:24:17.400 My father actually passed away in about 2021, but I was able to be very close with him beforehand.

00:24:25.320 And my mum and I are getting significantly closer.

00:24:28.360 And she's very happy that I've come back.

00:24:31.640 No doubt.

00:24:32.600 Yes.

00:24:33.160 Okay. Kelly Lynn, Faith, thank you very much for joining us today and being as open and frank

00:24:41.160 about your personal stories as they are. This is one of the issues of our day.

00:24:45.800 It won't last forever because these kinds of things don't.

00:24:49.240 There's something else and heaven only knows what it'll be.

00:24:52.360 But for today, you are voices for a reason and I don't suppose the premier of the province minds at all.

00:25:00.840 But you're saying if this set of rules have been in place in Ontario, you wouldn't be in this position today.

00:25:08.360 Thank you both very much.

00:25:13.080 You're welcome.

00:25:13.960 For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Halliford.

00:25:20.360 What é this year?

00:25:21.080 Jehovah's Kingdom

00:25:24.120 What is this m способ?

00:25:25.080 I'm sure it's too long.

00:25:25.700 inhos 0.99

00:25:28.480 It's a small process.

00:25:29.600 But if we Über die and have been for today, hold on for your past. 0.95

00:25:30.600 It's really hard for everyone for the five years.

00:25:32.520 Take care.

00:25:33.080 And rest for every Ministries of Finance.

00:25:37.960 You're close to all the past.

00:25:40.120 You're close to all the past.

00:25:42.120 Not in the past.

00:25:43.360 I'm sure you find them.

00:25:44.860 Rolesans are connecting the future with allroad

Western Standard - November 20, 2024

The terrible cost of transitioning comes later

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript