Western Standard - September 04, 2026


They cut off a dying cancer patient. Now his MP wants MAGIC MUSHROOMS legal for doctors


Episode Stats


Length

21 minutes

Words per minute

154.74

Word count

3,383

Sentence count

75


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 But just to address the question you put about safe supply and what British Columbia has been
00:00:06.600 doing for the last 10 to 20 years, it hasn't worked. The enabling of drug addicts has not
00:00:14.340 helped our society. It's going in the wrong direction. So some of the arguments, as much as
00:00:19.420 they're similar, it's different.
00:00:30.000 I'm General Conservative MP, MP Corey Tucker. So MP, in plain language, what would Bill C286
00:00:39.160 change for a patient seeking the kinds of treatments that you're pushing for?
00:00:45.960 Well, the bill is named after a great example of how it would change is how it came about. So it's
00:00:52.460 named after Thomas Hartle. He was a consultant of mine and he came into my office. He was diagnosed
00:00:59.380 with stage four cancer and it and if like anybody else if you've had a loved one that has fought
00:01:05.020 cancer it's a it's a you're battling the disease state but you're also battling mental health of
00:01:11.600 the patient and for Thomas his anxiety was through the roof and they tried a whole bunch of different
00:01:17.500 pharmaceutical treatments and none of them worked and with limited time to live with four months
00:01:24.440 left his doctor prescribed psilocybin with counseling and currently doctors in Canada
00:01:30.000 can prescribe it but the paperwork first has to be approved by the bureaucrats in Ottawa
00:01:35.520 and Thomas's doctor went through all the paperwork sent it off to our special access program he got
00:01:41.740 access and the good news is that it helped him it helped calm his anxiety so that his body
00:01:48.620 could fight cancer and unfortunately though at the three-year mark of a man that was given four
00:01:54.380 months to live his government the bureaucrats cut him off so that's when he came to see his mp and
00:02:00.260 that was me and i didn't think much of psilocybin or magic mushrooms at the time as a medicine but
00:02:10.060 i did commit made a commitment to thomas is that i'd look into it a little bit more and true enough
00:02:15.200 there are countless patients that have been helped in different disease states with the use of
00:02:22.480 psilocybin with counseling and that kind of spurred me after meeting other patients and other doctors
00:02:30.300 and other researchers and then reading some of the science that has shown that a substance that
00:02:35.080 is non-toxic non-addictive that has been used for hundreds of years got grouped into a whole bunch
00:02:42.560 of other drugs that we should do everything possible to keep off our streets but they
00:02:47.640 included psilocybin and error so what thomas's bill would do is allow physicians to prescribe
00:02:53.340 it legally and more importantly it allows proponents of different molecules a channel
00:02:58.640 within health canada which it currently exists called the priority review that any molecule
00:03:04.520 with psilocybin would be put into that review process ensuring that they have the resources
00:03:09.020 to render a decision on the molecule within 180 days doesn't guarantee a yes but it guarantees
00:03:15.400 that the high standards that health canada has when bringing new products to canadians are kept
00:03:21.220 and those are the two major things that it does it also um breaks down a little bit of stigma it's
00:03:26.060 been three years now that i've been over three years now that i've been working on this and
00:03:31.180 there's stigma surrounded um psychedelics or psilocybin uh that doesn't need to be there
00:03:37.460 And I think one of the lasting effects of this bill, if it passes, great, or what it spurs is probably what's more important to our society.
00:03:48.260 And for the people that are suffering from mental health and addictions, problems, there's hope on the way in Thomas' bill.
00:03:54.920 So, you know, you've lamented the fact that you're not exactly trying to bypass existing drug approval processes.
00:04:00.500 You're trying to keep that rigorous standard from Health Canada.
00:04:03.540 So, realistically speaking, if your bill is to pass and if things go the way you're intending them to go, how exactly is access expanded?
00:04:11.460 Is this simply a question of time and velocity?
00:04:14.560 How does it change access to patients?
00:04:17.600 What it would allow is the path to get a molecule approved.
00:04:22.560 So, right now, there's different molecules from different drug classes that would apply to Health Canada, but they can linger for a year, two years, or indefinitely.
00:04:33.540 that you'd never know why Health Canada has decided against the molecule.
00:04:38.920 Right now, with Thomas' bill, they would require to render a decision in 180 days
00:04:44.020 and tell that proponent what was lacking.
00:04:46.920 But we don't believe it's lacking.
00:04:48.280 The science around psilocybin is, I wouldn't say settled.
00:04:54.240 The science has never settled it.
00:04:55.400 We're always learning.
00:04:56.840 But on treatment-resistant depression.
00:04:59.140 So we've tried every pharmaceutical solution out there, and these patients haven't got better.
00:05:05.980 But there are patients that counseling with psilocybin has made a difference in their life.
00:05:10.660 So why is the government telling its citizens it can't use that plant?
00:05:15.580 So to your question, what does it change?
00:05:19.520 It paves a path that we will get to a place in Canada where a molecule will be approved,
00:05:25.600 where physicians will be able to prescribe it without having bureaucrats getting involved
00:05:30.460 if they view their patient would be approved, would be a benefit of it.
00:05:35.500 So that's the main difference is that actually legally allows physicians to prescribe it
00:05:41.200 without going through the special access program.
00:05:43.260 And two, it allows proponents of different molecules to be approved.
00:05:47.460 And this is not just synthetic pharmaceutical psilocybin.
00:05:51.500 It could be botanical or natural.
00:05:53.600 It could be extract. The science on the molecule of psilocybin is pretty clear that it's non-toxic
00:06:01.840 and non-addictive. What we don't know is what form and in what best way to utilize this medicine
00:06:08.640 with what population. And that's where I'll be encouraging this fall that as a country,
00:06:13.920 we should be redirecting some of our research dollars into Canadian research with psilocybin.
00:06:19.580 So, in terms of looking at the Canadian public, of course, you're motivated, you know, there's the story of Thomas, and then there's probably perhaps some other constituents you talk to as well. Who within the Canadian public do you believe would benefit most from these kinds of treatments? What kind of people, what kind of populations, situations can you, can you cite that would be more affected by this?
00:06:40.560 it would be uh end of stage care would be a prime example and currently that that's makes up the
00:06:47.680 largest percent of the special access approvals so the government is right now approving um there
00:06:55.060 is a belief that um with end of life if you've ever been around a loved one dying it's tough
00:07:00.860 it's tough on them it's tough for everybody around them um i bring up the example of um his nickname
00:07:06.820 Pistol Pete he's in Ontario and you might have seen some media on him he's
00:07:11.080 he's not dying of cancer like Thomas he's dying of a respiratory disease and
00:07:16.360 there's no there's no cure and his family there's different podcasts out
00:07:22.580 there if you'd like to hear directly from the family on what's it like and if
00:07:26.860 you have a loved one or any of your viewers that had a loved one fighting
00:07:30.360 cancer before they know that that patient isn't who they are in a lot of
00:07:35.980 cases. If the individual is facing death, they're a bear or they're not themselves is how
00:07:44.740 Pete's family described him. So his doctor prescribed psilocybin counseling and they
00:07:52.780 waited 11 months and this is for end-of-life care. What was sent back from the bureaucrat lawyers was
00:07:59.880 a 15-page document that he's not dying quick enough or painfully enough. Meanwhile, that
00:08:05.900 individual did apply for MAID and got approval to receive MAID. This doesn't make any sense.
00:08:15.460 So the end-of-life care component is very crucial. And I think that probably the first area where we
00:08:22.340 need to, one, spend more dollars on research and two, approve doctors that believe their patients
00:08:28.740 would benefit from CILZAB and counseling for end-of-life care. That is the sciences out there
00:08:35.260 that shows that this is a significant way of lessening the fears of one's end and it's an
00:08:44.500 alternate state of consciousness is the best way to describe patients that have benefit from
00:08:50.900 psilocybin counseling so anyone that is end of stage care would benefit from psilocybin
00:08:58.520 the treatment resistant depression we've tried everything else and it hasn't worked
00:09:03.780 why aren't we trying a plant that has been used for 100 years that isn't addictive and isn't
00:09:09.220 toxic that's a no-brainer there's also additional science that is being done on what if it doesn't
00:09:17.480 include kit counseling what if there's a benefit of just the medicine itself and we'll see if that
00:09:23.240 bears out to be significant or not but there may be also a population of people for anxiety general
00:09:30.580 mental health conditions that would benefit and we've the veterans are another angle that
00:09:36.960 I think is a very compelling story and our first responders and some of the police that I've talked
00:09:42.300 to that we we ask a lot for our frontline workers in our country and PTSD not just for veterans but
00:09:50.880 first responders significantly are higher in those demographics right now those individuals if they
00:09:57.500 would like to legally try psilocybin they would talk to their doctor and maybe special access
00:10:04.640 program might approve their application after months and months or if the alternative and this
00:10:12.100 is where not having thomas's bill pass would mean that people would still go out on the illegal or
00:10:21.220 gray market side of things still access the medicine but have none of the precautionary
00:10:25.960 regulations around it. None of the standards that the gray market or illegal market brings
00:10:32.380 comes with it. But in any major city in Canada, you can go out and there's storefronts that will
00:10:38.920 sell you that. And I think that's wrong. That encourages lawbreaking in our society that
00:10:44.100 doesn't need to be there with this substance. So let's talk about the politics about this,
00:10:48.520 because frankly, obviously, look, the spirit of what you just said really reminds me of
00:10:53.420 where some arguments were in for example British Columbia on on safe supply you know
00:10:58.120 people will access drugs anyways let's give it in in quantity dosage observation uh context that
00:11:05.660 makes it a little bit less harmful a little bit less dangerous to the user and to people around
00:11:10.560 them so I want to get the sense from you first of all you're heading back to Ottawa in a few weeks
00:11:15.160 where is your caucus on this as as as the opposition is your whole caucus behind you is
00:11:21.580 Is there some nuance?
00:11:23.140 I'm sure there's definitely some nuance from the sentiment,
00:11:25.500 but do you believe that you would have the voting power of your whole party undivided?
00:11:30.800 Well, we have a pretty rigorous protocol for an individual to bring forward a profit member's bill.
00:11:38.980 And I do have our caucus support to bring it forward.
00:11:43.060 But just to address the question you put about safe supply
00:11:47.360 and what British Columbia has been doing for the last 10 to 20 years, it hasn't worked.
00:11:54.140 The enabling of drug addicts has not helped our society.
00:11:58.980 It's going in the wrong direction.
00:12:01.020 So some of the arguments, as much as they're similar, it's different.
00:12:04.300 And it took me three years to get my head wrapped around how psilocybin could be used
00:12:11.600 within our medical community.
00:12:14.200 And it might take others longer to realize that going back, why, you know, there's hard drugs such as fentanyl and meth and cocaine that are truly addictive, truly toxic that you walk down any downtown major city in Canada and you see the zombies that that has created.
00:12:36.780 then you meet with a former opioid addict that believes it was the psilocybin counseling that is
00:12:44.720 staying them clean it's night and day in the comparisons or arguments that you put forward
00:12:51.860 on what british columbia has done but the evidence speaks for themselves that that is a failed
00:12:57.460 experiment and for caucus support this is this is a conservative position thomas's bill we're
00:13:05.440 talking about bureaucrats that are getting in the way of physicians in practicing medicine for their
00:13:12.040 patients. This is, I can't think of a more of an overreach that or an injustice as a government
00:13:20.960 saying to its dying citizens, no, you cannot legally have a plant that is non-toxic and
00:13:28.200 non-addictive versus made.
00:13:31.160 This is the conservative belief that one has the right to make decisions for themselves.
00:13:39.900 And on the fiscal side of things, we're talking about addictions in mental health that costs
00:13:45.780 our country tens of billions of dollars every year in lost productivity, direct costs in
00:13:53.120 health care.
00:13:53.660 meanwhile we've had success and this is not for everyone that is addicted and not for everyone
00:13:59.660 that is suffering from mental health but of the physicians that believe that their patients
00:14:04.840 can benefit from psilocybin we as a conservative government would allow that physician to prescribe
00:14:10.860 psilocybin counseling so in your discussions on the hill do you believe you have support from other
00:14:16.580 members of other parties the liberals more importantly given their majority position
00:14:20.740 but also other opposition members is this something that can cross the line you think
00:14:24.760 in terms of the partisan gap well the reaching out to other parties hasn't started just yet so
00:14:32.540 i've just introduced the bill the last week of session and the there might be a little bit of
00:14:39.000 i i'm i'm hopeful um from just the introduction of the bill because if you rewind the tape the
00:14:45.440 last week of session you got the jerk of the government being jerks the opposition and
00:14:49.620 it was a whole bunch of theater being played and the liberals removed from our order paper
00:14:57.600 the section that does with private members bills but on the second last day of session
00:15:03.940 went to house leadership on all parties and said hey here's thomas's bill we have veterans flying
00:15:10.940 in we have people that have made travel arrangements to be in ottawa could we get a
00:15:17.260 unanimous consent to introduce the bill. And we got it, which was very encouraging that there is
00:15:23.580 some support for this from other parties. And we'll find out a little bit more in the coming
00:15:28.720 weeks if that will materialize in a vote. We'll have a debate on the House of Commons, which I'm
00:15:34.560 very excited for, that I know many of your listeners will be tuning into as well. And a
00:15:40.520 first vote to send to committee to hear firsthand from experts from across Canada, the doctors that
00:15:46.980 researchers that are making this possible. And there's a series of votes to get out of committee
00:15:53.380 and then send it back to the house. And this is a long process and we'll find out if there's
00:15:58.840 support. If you follow the science on psilocybin, there's a great case to be made that we got it
00:16:06.700 wrong by including this medicine with all the other substances that we should do as much as
00:16:13.180 we can to keep off the streets but harness it for all the right reasons for our citizens
00:16:18.300 that are suffering with ptsd addictions and mental health so i want to continue on the political
00:16:25.500 trend here you know there's a number of private members bills you know introduced in the last
00:16:30.880 session and obviously many of them frankly don't deal with so much ideological inclination so i
00:16:36.940 I mean, as simple as record shows, silver alert bill, targeting, you know, the use of technology to prevent loss of life for seniors or just simply loss of seniors roaming around.
00:16:49.180 I've covered some of these topics and I always understand that there is probably a potential of at least getting to the, you know, second reading, at least getting to committee.
00:16:56.720 You know, even the parties who may not agree with you might just bounce into that study phase.
00:17:00.320 so if that happens and that could possibly happen in your case what are you looking forward to kind
00:17:04.940 of in terms of studies and research like what do you want ottawa to know and hear in order to get
00:17:10.860 what you want done um in that phase specifically if that were to happen well i think this is a case
00:17:17.820 where ottawa has got it wrong we gotta listen to its people uh it's its citizens and i think
00:17:22.740 canadians are much more more um advanced in the support of cell 7 counseling uh than mps are and
00:17:32.240 i know for my personal case it took three years like i'm i'm a law-abiding libertarian conservative
00:17:38.240 that didn't think this is not why i got involved in politics but thomas spoke to me and of the
00:17:45.060 hundreds of other patients that i've talked to that believe this is what gave their lives back
00:17:50.640 um that is what is politicians have to listen to that and of the viewers that um may be watching
00:17:58.480 this right now i encourage you to contact your member department regardless of political stripe
00:18:02.960 this is not a partisan issue this is a health care issue that we have to get right they to your
00:18:08.620 viewers please in the nicest terms possible contact mps across canada and tell them to support
00:18:15.720 thomas's bill because this is an important addition to the toolbox of physicians that are
00:18:21.720 fighting the mental health and addictions crisis this is not a silver bullet that will fix all the
00:18:27.180 ailments but of the doctors that i've talked to that believe that psychedelics can be a positive
00:18:34.040 impact that is what is going to drive the change and even if ottawa has been slow and the liberals
00:18:39.380 have been slow to realize the benefit of this plant, Canadians are ahead of them, and they
00:18:48.320 will force that issue so that we do have a positive vote whenever this comes to.
00:18:53.260 And of the committee, I think there is, of the viewers that you have that might be a
00:18:59.600 little, still have questions, I would encourage them to sign in for the committees because
00:19:05.300 of the researchers and doctors that believe in this it's it's coming and it's not just us
00:19:11.760 in Canada so Australia right now their model is that if the physician has been trained to
00:19:17.180 prescribe psilocybin they are able to prescribe it to their patients they feel would benefit
00:19:23.120 Czech has moved on this Switzerland is ahead of us G7 countries are ahead of us Americans are
00:19:30.280 light years ahead of us on this one. President Trump signed an executive order roughly four
00:19:36.340 months ago that has sped up the approval of psychedelics for the FDA. They've announced
00:19:45.560 three vouchers for three different molecules that will have similar effects of Thomas's bill where
00:19:51.840 it will provide a pathway for approval. And it's not just our veterans with PTSD that has
00:19:59.720 been helped by psilocybin it's also veterans in the states and they're paid for uh three phase
00:20:06.320 three trials uh that are going to be published here in q4 or q1 of next year that will usher in
00:20:14.380 changes in how we deal with mental health and addictions in the states at least and health
00:20:19.560 canada will follow along uh maybe uh in time in due time but i i i can't wait there's it's the
00:20:27.820 Evidence is clear that this is a solution for people that are suffering, that are either taking their own lives with the MAID or with the garbage drugs that are out there or just the decisions that they're making that would benefit from this.
00:20:41.840 I can't get a good conscience to wait on my hands until the government realizes the benefit or if Health Canada follows the FDA.
00:20:51.780 we don't need to follow anybody we can lead the world and especially once again on the research
00:20:57.960 side of things in this upcoming budget we we had zero dollars last year put in as a dedicated
00:21:03.960 psilocybin research that has to change in the budget that will be released later this fall
00:21:09.140 epic horror talker thank you so much for your time today you're welcome thanks for having me on thanks
00:21:21.780 Thank you.