Western Standard - Trades should be celebrated, not shamed

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:00:30.000 good day welcome to the cory morgan show we're on winter number five this year i think it is if

00:00:49.280 you're in the western prairies you're getting yet another dump of snow cold miserable weather

00:00:55.120 it's funny though watching legacy media outlets you know ctv is the worst of the bunch i mean

00:00:59.360 they're brutal and uh just a couple of weeks ago when it was warm they already came up with their

00:01:04.800 summer weather map you know they like having that map where it shows like a screaming flaming red

00:01:08.800 everywhere where it's like 18 or 19 degrees celsius and trying to show how terrible the

00:01:12.960 global warming is reporting like crazy of course on the drought and the dryness and we're going to

00:01:16.960 see rattlesnakes in edmonton and who knows what else if this carries on but now now well it's

00:01:22.160 gone cold and wet it's going to go green and the dugouts are filling up and the snowpack is doing

00:01:27.600 well, so the water shortage might not happen. So what are they on to now? Well, this is their

00:01:33.420 headline saying, wet weather to plague provinces. Yes, apparently we were all in a crisis because

00:01:39.480 things were too dry, but as soon as it gets a little too wet, now it's a plague. It's a plague

00:01:43.500 of wetness. Terrible. It's just, they thrive on weather hysteria, you know? It's snowing at the

00:01:52.680 start of May in Alberta. Anybody who's tried to schedule a camping trip on a May long weekend

00:01:56.780 knows that's pretty much par for the course. But still, the media has to make everything out to be

00:02:02.340 a crisis, a weather event, a terrible climate change thing. Good to see you all checking in

00:02:08.040 there, guys. Jordan Paradoxy, Mr. Stanley, lots of folks. Yes, use the comment scroll, Doug there.

00:02:15.380 Send those things out, get the questions my way, comments my way, send them my guests' way. My

00:02:18.780 guest today is going to be Shane Wenzel. He's been on before. He's written columns for us and some

00:02:22.940 other publications and of course he is the the head of shane homes because again housing homes

00:02:28.140 they're top of the list for items these days on the news and city councils things like that

00:02:33.280 especially in calgary but it's going on everywhere let's talk to somebody who actually builds the

00:02:37.980 things get a better idea of what's going on how are we going to deal with this because there is

00:02:41.800 a shortage homes there's no doubt about that just what everybody's fighting about now is how we're

00:02:45.260 going to deal with it so i mean this is a bit related i'm going to talk about that so i mean

00:02:50.460 economic times. They've been tough since governments around the world decided to overreact

00:02:54.800 and go bananas over COVID-19 in 2020. They shut down aspects of the economy and they increased

00:03:02.280 government deficit spending. It was a recipe for mass inflation, so the outcome was as expected.

00:03:07.820 Of course, we had supply chain shortages that led to runs on consumer products, while the

00:03:12.220 currency creation of countries around the world shot prices through the roof. It's going to take

00:03:16.240 at least a decade before we see stable economic activity again.

00:03:20.580 Now, today in Canada, we're suffering from a housing shortage.

00:03:23.360 And it wasn't just COVID policies that led to this, that contributed.

00:03:26.440 The pandemic was just the final economic straw on an issue that's building for a long time.

00:03:30.660 We've had environmental regulations gatekeeping local governments.

00:03:33.620 They've been hindering housing starts as they have this obsessive focus on building up rather

00:03:37.480 than out, and they've stunted natural urban growth.

00:03:40.240 And of course, mass immigration has led to a huge increase in demand for housing as over

00:03:44.380 a million people a year flow into the country.

00:03:46.240 But let's say, let's say Canada figures it all out and we're ready to get building.

00:03:51.100 Immigration, let's imagine, has been greatly reduced and is targeted.

00:03:54.320 City councils have stopped nasal gaining about rezoning, nasal gazing, nasal, naval gazing.

00:03:59.920 That's a tongue twister, isn't it?

00:04:01.060 About rezoning areas and began working on finding real ways to increase housing.

00:04:05.080 And the government somehow even managed to balance the budget and get inflation under control.

00:04:09.160 I know, a big imaginary world.

00:04:10.920 We'd still be left with a massive housing backlog to catch up on.

00:04:14.660 So the next question is going to be, who's going to build all these houses?

00:04:17.960 Well, in 2023 in Calgary, there were 30,500 job vacancies.

00:04:22.240 That's a lot of jobs, you know, vacant.

00:04:24.600 And nearly 7,600 of them were in construction.

00:04:27.360 And this trend is the same in every jurisdiction experiencing population growth.

00:04:31.480 While activists and politicians ramble about raising minimum wages and finding ways to offer relief to baristas trying to pay off student loans,

00:04:38.800 they don't speak up much on the bidding wars that are happening in the construction market for labor right now.

00:04:44.340 Young people should be directed where the work is, 1.00

00:04:46.820 rather than trying to create markets where they don't exist.

00:04:49.600 We don't need more liberal arts graduates.

00:04:51.360 We need tradespeople. 1.00

00:04:52.860 There's been a stigma attached to the trades for decades.

00:04:56.000 And when I finished high school, I saw it myself.

00:04:57.860 I finished school in the late 80s.

00:04:59.780 I didn't have any idea what an apprentice was,

00:05:01.600 even though I was finishing high school.

00:05:02.880 Do they not even teach you a little bit about that?

00:05:05.380 How do you even start in the trades if I'm interested?

00:05:07.600 But we were taught that your future is binary.

00:05:09.660 Either you graduate high school and go on to pursue a degree,

00:05:12.220 or you're a janitor. 0.54

00:05:13.100 There was nothing in between. Kids who underperformed academically, well, they might end up

00:05:17.480 sent to a dreaded vocational school, and they were considered objects of pity or shame.

00:05:22.600 The young folks who found themselves training for the trades, though, despite the lack of

00:05:26.180 guidance from the educational system, usually did pretty well for themselves. Instead of building up

00:05:30.180 a debt of student loans, they went straight to the working world. And if they got certified in 0.68

00:05:33.760 a trade, well, they were pretty much set. How many of you have seen any plumbers in the

00:05:37.140 unemployment line lately? Seen any electricians riding the bus to work? Heard any carpenters

00:05:41.680 complaining of being underemployed? Journeymen in the trades are commanding high wages and good

00:05:46.540 working conditions these days. There have been ups and downs in the economy, but they've typically

00:05:50.120 been always working and they're enjoying the benefits of hyper demand for their skills today.

00:05:54.300 Can the same be said for people holding a degree in interpretive dance or philosophy? Usually the

00:05:59.300 only thing you can say to those graduates is, yes, please use skim in my latte. Thank you.

00:06:04.000 Even if it isn't in a formal trade, there's many well-paying construction opportunities. Heavy

00:06:07.880 equipment operators, framers, drywallers, painters, they're all commanding high wages right now.

00:06:12.280 Even entry-level unskilled construction laborers are being offered over $20 an hour to start in

00:06:17.760 Calgary right now. What's the pay scale for a person with a degree specializing in gender studies 1.00

00:06:22.120 or intersectional South American poetry these days? There's nothing wrong with any other job

00:06:28.660 for that matter as well. And looking at the listings online, I see janitors, the ones I

00:06:32.120 mentioned earlier, they can make $20 an hour and who's to say they don't move on to develop a

00:06:36.080 cleaning business and make a lot more. We've allowed elitism to take over our education system.

00:06:42.220 A large number of teachers are embittered liberal arts graduates who enter the field in pursuit of

00:06:46.560 good pay and a pension rather than a love of teaching. They still harbor a disdain for the

00:06:50.720 world that forced them to work at Pizza Hut for years before admitting their tribal music degree

00:06:55.020 wasn't going to pay their bills, while the students who went into the trades or went to the oil field

00:06:58.980 of course were buying big trucks in their first homes. They pass that attitude down to the students

00:07:02.840 as they stigmatize non-academic career paths, even if unconsciously.

00:07:08.140 Canada's education system has failed to create the skilled people we need for today's demands,

00:07:12.720 and we're all paying the price for that now.

00:07:14.620 It'll take years before the students of today are ready to take on the labor needs of tomorrow, 0.84

00:07:18.040 but there's no better time than now to start changing our paths.

00:07:21.300 AI, that's the big game changer, and it's going to be eliminating a lot of jobs.

00:07:24.840 It's foolish to direct students into fields vulnerable to AI replacement,

00:07:28.400 but it's going to be a long time before a robot's able to unplug your toilet,

00:07:31.960 especially after taco tuesday or wire a new lighting system into your house or change the

00:07:37.220 shingles let's start preparing kids for career futures that are going to be in demand and that

00:07:41.180 means dropping the stigma applied to non-academic paths and in particular in construction and trades

00:07:47.660 all right enough pissing and moaning out of me let's see what's going on out there in the rest

00:07:52.000 of the news world with our news editor dave naylor if he's out there here he comes hey dave how's it

00:07:57.800 John. Hey, Corey. How are you doing? Pretty good. You know what? I'm thinking if I had to become a

00:08:02.620 plumber, I'd be retired by now. Oh, yeah. Like I said, you don't see them driving old beaters like

00:08:07.560 we have and things like that. They're doing pretty good. Yeah, no kidding. Did you get much snow out

00:08:12.280 at your Prittis compound? Oh, yeah. Living in the foothills, there's a downside. Even that close to

00:08:18.000 Calgary, we get a hell of a lot more snow out there. So the bees are going to be crabby and

00:08:22.440 buried for a week or so. Yeah, it was blizzarding down here a little while ago, but it seems to

00:08:26.980 stopped hey you know the big news the big news this week was the uh the announcement uh by

00:08:32.340 premier smith on the uh sort of look look see into high high speed rail and other stuff in the

00:08:38.660 province just reading your tweets cory i'm not quite sure i could couldn't quite get where you

00:08:43.700 stand on the situation you are only concise i've been trying to be nuanced about it and everything 1.00

00:08:51.540 it's it's stupid it's just stupid i'm sick of this coming up every few years 1.00

00:08:56.500 yeah absolutely we're not we don't have the population to support it that's for sure 1.00

00:09:00.980 uh but anyways on to the news because it's a busy day and uh i got more stuff coming up uh right now

00:09:06.820 the website is being led off with an utterly brilliant brilliant column i must say it's one

00:09:11.940 of the best uh nigel section has presented in a while uh on a time to give uh give permanent 0.66

00:09:19.860 residents the right to vote uh city council in calgary last night uh approved a motion by nine

00:09:26.260 to six that they were going to look at uh advocating uh getting permanent residents the

00:09:30.340 right to vote and uh and i i say that's a very good idea uh even though of course you uh were

00:09:36.660 against the cory uh uh as you uh as you are uh national debt ceiling uh we found out today is

00:09:43.700 now being raised to 2.1 trillion dollars by our finance minister freeland that is an awful lot

00:09:50.580 of zeros as you can see there but it was a historic day today corey and finally the trans

00:09:56.740 mountain pipeline expansion is is open and and flowing we've got our own paul forseth with a

00:10:04.420 column on how it wasn't really trudeau's success despite the fact i'm sure he'll probably claim it

00:10:11.460 and we've got our energy reporter Sean Polzer sort of looking at the ins and outs of how it

00:10:18.500 finally came to be and finally got final approval by the Canadian energy regulator last night.

00:10:26.500 Corey, I've got a story just about to publish that I know is going to anger you.

00:10:30.820 Edmonton NDP MP Heather McPherson has introduced a private members bill in the House of Commons

00:10:37.780 that will block Alberta leaving the Canadian pension plan.

00:10:41.500 So that's going to anger a lot of our readers too, Corey,

00:10:46.580 because I think there's some support for it out there.

00:10:49.800 Well, hopefully it angers a lot of Edmonton voters,

00:10:52.440 and this will be her last bloody term, and we'll wait and see.

00:10:56.840 The Trans Mountain, though, did Sean also cover?

00:10:59.500 Because I saw, I put myself through watching the NDP leadership debate in Alberta last week,

00:11:04.380 And our blessed Nahid Nenshi, the savior of the NDP, he took credit for getting the Trans Mountain built.

00:11:11.700 I don't know if he's been getting that credit elsewhere, but he actually said that during the debate.

00:11:15.980 I don't know if Sean caught that part or not.

00:11:18.620 Well, you know, Sean is an energy expert and he's also a pipeline expert.

00:11:23.360 But in his story today, there is no mention of Nahid Nenshi.

00:11:26.920 So I will remonstrate with him for missing that key fact.

00:11:31.500 Okay, well, we'll look further into it, I'm sure.

00:11:33.700 Mr. Nenshi's fingerprints are somewhere in that thing. I'm sure they are. All right. Thanks for

00:11:38.800 the update, Dave, and we'll talk to you after the show. Thanks, Corey. And yeah, I wish I was

00:11:43.980 kidding. You know, this Trans Mountain pipeline, I mean, has been a debacle since day one. It could

00:11:49.820 have been built by private enterprise. It was there. All we needed was for the government to

00:11:55.160 get out of the way. Kinder Morgan wasn't first threatening, saying we're just going to walk out

00:12:00.600 and closed the door on this, they were saying, please stop these endless court challenges. Stop

00:12:05.700 this ridiculous pile of regulations. Make this secure. We want to build this pipeline. But Prime 0.52

00:12:12.020 Minister Pinhead wouldn't do that. The government of BC wouldn't do that. All they did was throw up

00:12:17.980 more and more roadblocks. So like any good business people, Kinder Morgan said, well, fine,

00:12:21.600 we're gone. And they pushed it too far. It puts lie to a lot of that myth that a lot of governments

00:12:27.400 think, particularly when it comes to energy companies, they think they're never going to

00:12:30.340 leave. They love that oil and gas is there, so they're not going to leave no matter what we do

00:12:33.980 to them. You know, Pierre proved that wrong when he drove them all out of Alberta back with the

00:12:39.180 National Energy Program. Our own premier, Stelmac, proved that wrong when he raised the royalty rates

00:12:44.420 and energy companies moved their race south of the border. And Justin Trudeau figured out that

00:12:48.780 lesson all over again when he drove Kinder Morgan out. And because we were really hooped, even

00:12:53.740 liberal economists realizing we need to get that product to market, they were forced to jump in

00:12:59.500 and buy the thing. And look at it, look at the disaster. Four years too late. Again, better late

00:13:05.920 than never. I'm happy this thing's flowing. I really am. We need to move that product. But

00:13:09.640 and the budget, when we're talking, you know, it was started at four and a half billion dollars

00:13:14.820 when private enterprise was looking to do it. So far, they're looking at, and I'm sure these

00:13:18.360 numbers will get adjusted, $35 billion. That's insane. It's insane. Taxpayers got stuck on the

00:13:26.380 hook and they never would have had to spend a nickel if the government just would get out of

00:13:31.580 the way. So yeah, he gets labeled as wacko Trudeau. I don't know, some of the parliamentary stuff going

00:13:37.260 on. And hey, I love using my nasty language. I just called Trudeau a pinhead. Fair enough. But 0.97

00:13:42.240 I'm a host on a show. I'm a personality on Twitter. I'm not sure if it's that great for

00:13:48.880 Polly Ev to get in there and jump on the wacko game. I love watching it. I got to admit. And I

00:13:53.140 certainly don't feel much empathy for Trudeau, but I don't know. Question period's enough gong show

00:13:58.420 as it is. I don't know if it contributes. I don't know if it harms either. It's not like anything

00:14:02.380 productive really comes out of question period at the best of times, even if they're being civil to

00:14:06.840 each other. You ask Trudeau something politely, you get a word salad. You ask him something

00:14:10.840 difficult, he runs out the door and you get a junior minister responding who will give you

00:14:14.400 another word salad. So I guess out of frustration, you might as well just start calling him names

00:14:19.240 because it's just not going anywhere.

00:14:22.040 It's political theater.

00:14:23.740 And Jay Borknick, one of our commenters there,

00:14:25.760 says, you know, people like to look at a gong show.

00:14:27.400 That's true.

00:14:27.780 That's part of it, I guess.

00:14:28.620 I mean, part of the whole scene was,

00:14:30.460 well, it made the headlines, right?

00:14:31.780 We saw more of the clash

00:14:33.140 between the conservatives and the liberals,

00:14:34.520 and it's in the news today.

00:14:36.680 I guess it's just questionable

00:14:37.760 as to whether or not it's a productive way

00:14:40.340 to get in the news or not.

00:14:41.640 Sometimes, you know,

00:14:42.560 leave the name calling to me, guys.

00:14:43.680 I got it covered.

00:14:44.600 I'm good at it.

00:14:45.700 All right, let's get on to more serious talk,

00:14:47.580 and it's something that's been dragging on

00:14:49.020 going on in Canada, but in Calgary particularly lately. And that's why I wanted to reach out to

00:14:54.200 Shane Wenzel from Shane Holmes, because of course we're talking now in Calgary, it's been a big

00:14:58.800 deal for people who are watching from out of province or out of the city. It's been a week

00:15:02.800 and some of hearings over blanket rezoning. And they're framing it that the way housing prices

00:15:08.440 are going to be brought to affordability is if we just apply zoning, rezoning all the way across

00:15:13.240 the entire city in a blanket manner. And a lot of people don't agree with that. And they've been

00:15:17.580 speaking up, but it sounds like it's going to go ahead. Anyways, I want to talk to somebody who

00:15:21.260 actually builds the things, not a bunch of busybodies on city council who managed to find

00:15:27.760 their ways into those seats. I'm not sure how. So welcome back to the show, Shane. I really

00:15:31.920 appreciate you coming on to talk to us today. Well, thanks for having me, Corey.

00:15:36.540 So I want to start with this zoning. I mean, I've said before, I said when I first messaged you,

00:15:42.360 I'm a little mixed though. There's some areas where there could be some room to change some

00:15:45.760 rezoning or not. I know you might, you know, maybe people might not be happy if it's their

00:15:49.000 house. That's the one next to the new fourplex or things like that. But this whole mess, I mean,

00:15:54.980 it's, they're going in a blanket way and they're talking as if it's a panacea.

00:15:59.500 Would rezoning change, I guess, your ability to build a lot more homes to try and fill the need

00:16:03.980 right now? No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't fill a gap anywhere, Corey. The unfortunate part is,

00:16:10.400 Yeah, I'm of your opinion as well as that, you know, the funds have already been accepted by city council.

00:16:16.260 So this is just pandering to the to the masses at this point.

00:16:20.680 And it's sad. It really is because, you know, they have a process in place already that, you know,

00:16:27.060 but the LAP process where they can at least take a look at it area by area and designate zoning around higher traffic or,

00:16:35.260 public transit corridors where I think people would be perfectly fine with having that kind

00:16:43.480 of density around them. But for some reason, we need to blanket rezone an entire city. And I think

00:16:50.420 that just creates nothing but a mess as we're seeing by the number of days it's taking for

00:16:55.720 people to get through their panels. Well, yeah, we've never quite seen anything like this. I mean,

00:17:00.820 there's always been means and accommodation for people to come into public hearings.

00:17:04.540 Our own sin, I guess, as citizens, we rarely go out to anything at City Hall. We don't pay much

00:17:09.340 attention to them, but something happened this time. I mean, 800 and some people signed up to

00:17:14.540 speak out. I don't think it's all just selfish homeowners, is it?

00:17:19.980 No, it isn't selfish homeowners. I mean, again, most people will purchase their home and they

00:17:27.960 look at it as their nest egg at the at the end of their career at the end of their life

00:17:32.200 and if they can't maintain that I think that's where the large a lot of the largest concern comes

00:17:37.720 in but you also have concerns with you know with parking availability traffic in the community and

00:17:44.460 and and of course you know short-term rentals is is another bit of the topic as well you know so

00:17:50.840 I think people just want to protect the privacy that they have but they want to protect the

00:17:54.440 fabric of their neighborhood as much as they can as well. So you're in business and of course the

00:18:00.900 housing business, we need more homes. That's something almost everybody agrees on. We need

00:18:05.140 more. Sure. How best, I mean, just even in your own business interest, do you want to build them

00:18:10.820 as fast and as plentifully, you know, and in a decent quality as possible, but what do you need

00:18:16.460 to be able to do that then as quickly and reasonably as possible? Like what's a real

00:18:20.140 solution. I know there's no overnight one, but how can we move towards that?

00:18:26.060 And that's the unfortunate part, Corey. This is not a short-term fix. This has been building up

00:18:31.000 for a number of years, but if I had to start at the top level with the federal government,

00:18:36.860 get the hell out of the business. I mean, they've created a tremendous amount of red tape over the

00:18:42.680 years, but between all levels of government, and it depends on what municipality you live in,

00:18:49.260 I mean, roughly 30% of the cost of a new home is related to the red tape, to the government fees.

00:18:58.660 So, I mean, they've got to start abating that and bringing it back in line rather than constantly going to the well.

00:19:05.420 But I think you also have to freeze immigration for a year or two and reset it back to normal levels because it's unsustainable the way it is right now.

00:19:14.980 But at the same time, you know, why can we not focus on bringing in skilled trades or professional services as part of our immigration plan?

00:19:25.820 I think that's one of the two of the best places to start.

00:19:29.140 But, you know, again, continuing on with the federal level, when we talk about infrastructure funds, which is tied back to, you know, everybody's favorite topic lately of the blanket rezoning in Calgary.

00:19:40.500 Stop it.

00:19:41.220 Don't tie infrastructure to that.

00:19:42.940 Quite honestly, the federal government should just set aside maybe five, six billion a year or for for infrastructure for the municipalities, you know, so they can actually build that and no strings attached.

00:19:56.220 Or, you know, the simpler way is leave the municipalities with one or two percent more of the taxes that they collect, because this is where the problem's coming in.

00:20:05.140 The municipalities just don't have the funds to keep up with the growth at times.

00:20:09.600 yeah i mean it is a challenge even well-meaning municipalities i mean this growth is just changes

00:20:15.600 every model and blows it out of the water we've got an advantage in calgary i mean i i've looked

00:20:21.800 at that i've gone on about that a lot of times you know there's areas like vancouver you're pretty

00:20:24.880 constrained just by being stuck in a valley with an ocean on one side or toronto you're already

00:20:29.600 built everything that's within you know uh many many miles of the center but we have room to grow

00:20:34.740 out, but instead we're demonizing it. And I look in the United States, you know, the most affordable

00:20:40.140 areas, even though they got good economies, you're looking at Houston and Austin, even though they're

00:20:43.540 quite progressive or Phoenix, because they're letting people grow outward. I mean, it's not

00:20:49.280 the end of the world to build good, decent density, new neighborhoods, is it? No, it's not. But I mean,

00:20:54.780 the areas that you described would probably fit the definition of urban sprawl as the zealots like

00:21:00.200 to a claim we have here in Calgary, and I've argued that for a number of years. When you build

00:21:05.020 one subdivision after another after another, you actually don't have sprawl, especially when

00:21:09.800 they're more dense than a lot of the neighborhoods within inner city Calgary. So, you know, if you

00:21:17.280 could get the zealots out of the way and they could finally admit that new suburbia actually

00:21:21.800 fills a void for affordability, then yeah, you could continue to make a dent in the housing

00:21:29.340 shortage that we have here in calgary yeah and i mean that's something there's a bit of a myth i

00:21:35.580 mean with a lot of people in uh walden for example i mean way down in south calgary for people who

00:21:41.180 don't know it but it's a new district but boy it's hard to find single family dwellings in there

00:21:45.200 there's a lot of townhouses there's condos there's duplexes and uh why not but it's a new area it's

00:21:51.440 technically sprawl according to the zealots well yeah but uh what what they won't tell you is that

00:21:57.160 uh it's uh it's about a 60 60 40 split in favor of single family or in some cases a 50 50 split

00:22:04.420 when you go out to new suburbia you know so they're much more dense uh to the point where

00:22:09.040 they're on average let's say about 10 units per acre whereas if i went to charleswood in calgary

00:22:15.100 that would be about six units per acre so have we not resolved the problem with density targets

00:22:21.700 in new savouria yet yeah so let's see though part of the problem as you said we got multiple levels

00:22:28.380 of government we got multiple levels of problems uh my opening monologue was actually on how we

00:22:33.220 aren't training up people in the trades or or uh you know in just in construction in general

00:22:38.120 and uh but that's going to be years to solve even if we work towards it and as you pointed out

00:22:42.660 we do have a lot of people who want to immigrate is there room for companies then perhaps to

00:22:49.380 work with government and try to target labor coming in to fill the voids you need. That's

00:22:55.820 the thing is governments, they try to fill the void for their political sake. You're looking

00:23:00.020 more pragmatically. You want to bring in people that can help build these units. Do you think

00:23:04.800 there's an appetite for that sort of dialogue? I think there's an appetite for that dialogue

00:23:09.500 and hopefully on every level. What would really benefit us, especially in this industry,

00:23:16.380 you know a couple of things one if you know federal provincial would would invest in you 0.65

00:23:24.000 know trade schools and I'm not picking on what we have with with Sate or Nate right now but

00:23:29.120 it doesn't take four to five years to to give say accreditation to a drywall or a painter a framer

00:23:36.180 or a cider they they need a four or five six month course and that's where a trade school

00:23:41.660 can fill that fill a tremendous void and uh and i think that would uh also resolve a problem uh

00:23:47.580 with uh with immigration and just giving them their equivalency based on their skill set so

00:23:52.700 they're ready to go in canada within months of uh of arriving um i i guess so uh i'll kind of

00:24:00.540 bounce around a little you spoke on regulation in vancouver i saw somebody put out a breakdown of a

00:24:05.340 condo in vancouver to build it from ground to finish it was just insane i i think it was like

00:24:09.900 An $800,000 condo, but it would have like $350,000 in just junk is the way I'm going to put it, junk.

00:24:17.020 Permits, applications.

00:24:18.860 I mean, this is not value-added stuff.

00:24:20.700 This is just government on government on government.

00:24:24.360 But the argument you get from people say, well, do you want to get rid of safety standards or fire standards and all that?

00:24:29.280 And suddenly you go down that rabbit hole of putting people at risk.

00:24:33.820 But I mean, which regulations can we just get rid of?

00:24:36.360 Clearly, we can get rid of some.

00:24:37.460 Dan, I don't know if we're getting rid of anything related to safety.

00:24:42.460 That's the problem.

00:24:43.460 Oh, that's just the argument we're in.

00:24:45.460 I mean, if we go back 30, 40 years, we didn't have those in place then and we were still

00:24:49.860 building houses that didn't catch fire or fall to the ground.

00:24:54.020 So I think the problem is, Corey, it's that thought or at least that attitude that it's

00:25:02.380 only $1,000.

00:25:03.380 Well, you keep adding on $1,000 over 40 years before you know it, you're up $40,000 on the units when you buy them.

00:25:12.680 And that's not fair.

00:25:14.060 I don't think a lot of those regulations need to be as stringent or they need to be as high as they are right now because they've also contributed to where we are today.

00:25:22.080 So take them off.

00:25:23.740 I mean, there's tax on tax on tax.

00:25:25.600 But, you know, one of the things that's contributing to the problem is the new National Building Code as an example.

00:25:33.340 You know, it's like we're policymakers are trying to build a better mousetrap.

00:25:37.380 And, you know, I think you can reach a plateau where, you know, it's good enough for a while and you don't have to touch it.

00:25:44.600 And maybe that's just an old attitude to have, or maybe it's just a better way of thinking.

00:25:49.300 But, you know, when I take a look at the National Energy Code and it's pushing us towards net zero in new homes, from where we are today, that would be another $30,000 attached to the sale price of a home.

00:26:01.700 Now, you want to amortize that over 25 years on a mortgage.

00:26:05.980 That's damn near $60,000 that the Canadians are paying out of their pocket just for their home.

00:26:11.920 Is that necessary?

00:26:13.720 Is it really making them much more energy efficient?

00:26:17.540 Or quite honestly, why don't we give people a tax break?

00:26:24.400 Give them a $30,000 tax break to renovate their homes.

00:26:27.940 You know, get rid of that old mid-efficient furnace that's not that mid-efficient anymore, that old hot water tank, those old single pane windows, improve the attic insulation in their home.

00:26:39.820 And, you know, if we're going after GHG targets in this country, you'd probably resolve that in about two to three years.

00:26:46.380 You'd have a tremendous boom in the renovation industry from about $8 billion a year to $15 billion a year.

00:26:53.740 I think it's a win-win on everybody's side, but I think that's how you can resolve the energy side of it.

00:26:59.280 But God, don't add in another code that adds more to the houses and really resolves nothing.

00:27:06.440 Yeah, and that can help with the retrofitting.

00:27:08.480 And I mean, some of it on your end, I mean, you're in a competitive industry.

00:27:11.840 There's other builders trying to sell homes too.

00:27:13.960 And a good selling point to people on a new home is, hey, your electric bill is going to come down by this much or your heating bill.

00:27:20.420 I mean, if if builders can build in more efficient or cost effective ways to to have the house, they're going to do it.

00:27:29.940 We're already there, Corey. It all comes down to how people live.

00:27:33.240 If someone wants their temperature up at 19 degrees in their home every day, it's probably going to be more efficient than somebody who has it up at 22 degrees every day.

00:27:41.920 They're going to use less natural gas. The furnace isn't going to be firing as often.

00:27:45.400 So it's, you know, it's a great thought, but sometimes, you know, it almost goes too far and we're not resolving anything at this point, in my opinion.

00:27:55.960 No, we don't need to legislate it.

00:27:57.940 Just leave people alone.

00:27:59.040 They want to save money.

00:28:00.260 Don't worry.

00:28:00.800 They'll do it.

00:28:02.700 But, well, I guess with this rezoning, it looks like, as we said, it's a done deal.

00:28:09.460 They already know what they want to do.

00:28:10.800 They're going to do it.

00:28:11.580 They're going through the motions right now.

00:28:13.440 So can that toothpaste be put back in the tube, though?

00:28:17.300 I mean, we might change the council.

00:28:19.000 It's certainly looking promising in a year and change,

00:28:21.400 but a lot of gears will have started turning by the time that happens.

00:28:26.120 Will this damage be able to be undone?

00:28:29.640 I think the damage can be undone,

00:28:31.260 but I definitely think this is now an election issue.

00:28:34.360 And I think you'll have candidates running next fall just based on that,

00:28:38.740 is that we are going to reverse what this council has put through.

00:28:44.280 Well, and it'll be, I think at least, I mean, it depends. You get confirmation bias in the

00:28:49.860 social media circles I run with and so on. But it looks to me like that'll be a difficult,

00:28:54.200 the blanket zoning is going to be a difficult one to run on for those incumbents right now.

00:28:58.860 I mean, part of it too, is that, you know, homeowners are the ones who usually are the

00:29:04.220 ones who donate to campaigns. They're usually the ones who go out to vote. The activists who

00:29:08.980 are screaming about densification and such tend to be more transient renters. I don't want to

00:29:13.380 blanket, I can't speak into blanketing, but everybody out there, but you've got a strong

00:29:17.320 voting bloc who's going to be pretty upset with this. And I suspect they're going to want to see

00:29:20.960 some change the next time around. I suspect that as well, Corey. But again, I think one of the

00:29:25.120 fallacies that, you know, that these groups are working with is that, you know, this money

00:29:31.560 coming from the federal government is simply for infrastructure. It has nothing to do with

00:29:36.180 affordability of homes nothing uh you could take and you could demolish a uh you know a million

00:29:43.120 dollar you know 1950s bungalow in the inner city and you could stick four maybe six townhome units

00:29:50.020 on it you're still not going to get it cheaper than i can build it out in new suburbia you know

00:29:56.720 so it's really not tackling that issue and i guess that's why i end up on the opposite side of the

00:30:01.400 fence at times is this is this money from federal is just going to infrastructure period that has

00:30:08.640 nothing to do with bringing down the cost of housing no and uh but they sure like having

00:30:14.360 those big announcements i mean they don't want to go into nuts and bolts they want to stand hand in

00:30:18.160 hand with a mayor with a member of parliament and say look at all this money we're putting in to

00:30:22.820 help you and anybody who poses this is clearly a heartless person who just doesn't want affordable

00:30:27.180 housing it's political theater and unfortunately it's not serving anybody no unfortunately it's

00:30:32.220 not it's just you know it's it's it's a frustrating process to watch and i've watched a number of uh

00:30:38.540 number of people make their presentations and you can you can feel a lot of empathy for them uh

00:30:43.020 they're strongly strongly concerned and uh and i don't blame them well i i appreciate you know

00:30:49.340 your your willingness to to speak out and be candid you know on these issues i mean we see

00:30:53.900 some backlash that comes and it's come towards your family before even for daring to speak you

00:30:58.060 know on these things and such and but the business community shouldn't be afraid to speak up on

00:31:03.020 issues like this and like i said i i appreciate you adding you know an experienced voice to this

00:31:07.420 so before i let you go where can people find i know you've been doing a lot of videos lately

00:31:11.500 you've written for a couple publications you're getting pretty prolific uh in between you know

00:31:15.100 building all those houses yeah yeah i seem to find time to do all this but it's uh it's fun and

00:31:20.620 It's knowledge sharing, but the easiest way to find me, I've kept it really simple, is just if

00:31:26.120 you're on social media, look for at Shane Wenzel and you're going to find me on most platforms.

00:31:31.380 Great. Well, I appreciate you coming on to talk to us again, Shane, and the contributions you make

00:31:36.120 to the Western Standard as well when you're writing things. I know you are quite busy and

00:31:40.180 hopefully in the long run, if we keep pushing, common sense will prevail and maybe the next

00:31:44.860 generation doesn't have to give up all hope on owning a home. I hope so as well, Corey. Thanks

00:31:49.600 for having me on thanks shane yes that was shane wenzel as he said he's easy as he said it's very

00:31:54.860 easy to find him just look up shane wenzel on social media he's outspoken and prolific and as

00:31:59.680 you can see offers good reasoned common sense not as a grumpy as i am on covering all those issues

00:32:05.760 either so you know if you get tired of my vitriol and so on shane can offer a nice controlled voice

00:32:10.960 to talk about this things but we need those discussions we need discussions from people in

00:32:14.960 the industry, people looking at these things. I saw somebody asking the question, it was paradoxical,

00:32:21.280 about the infrastructure ability to cope with densification. I think Shane and I talked a bit

00:32:26.600 about that before too, because when you're talking about rebuilding established areas and inner city

00:32:30.720 areas, people forget there's some very ancient infrastructure underground in those areas, and it

00:32:36.540 can be extremely costly to dig up and tap in and expand to try and manage. I mean, if we're just

00:32:43.500 talking utilities even, uh, in an area when you're putting a lot more people into an area that was

00:32:48.200 never originally designed to handle that many. When, when you're getting into the, uh, outer

00:32:54.100 areas of a city you can build to, to deal with, uh, you know, the growth that you're going to need

00:32:59.780 in that area. Uh, see, see, there's some of the language, but fair enough. You know, it's a

00:33:03.580 comment based show. So I appreciate it. Papillon or Papillon says, uh, Oh, Shane Holmes, were they

00:33:07.980 responsible for part of the soulless suburban sprawl. Well, yeah, Shane Holmes is one of the

00:33:13.820 builders that builds new homes for people out there. And again, soulless suburban sprawl.

00:33:19.080 What I call it is affordable new housing. You know, before I left Calgary for Pritis, and that's part 1.00

00:33:24.760 of what's going on too, you see, is as they pressure things in the city, a lot of people,

00:33:28.960 if they can, they flee. So they just move out of the city anyways. And I used to live in Highland

00:33:34.000 Park in Calgary, which was a pretty well-developed older urban area. And a house behind us got,

00:33:43.360 and we're talking, you know, 12, 14 years ago or something, got torn down, a good existing

00:33:47.400 little bungalow. And they built a duplex there, a duplex, a huge, though, duplex. And those units,

00:33:52.400 I think, were $650,000 each. You remember back then, you could get a house, a full-out house

00:33:56.780 in Calgary, especially in that area, probably for more like $300,000. So they took one $300,000

00:34:02.680 house out and put two, you know, $600,000 duplexes in. Who's getting more affordable housing out of

00:34:11.380 that? I mean, if your goal is affordable housing, stuffing more people into those areas isn't doing

00:34:17.640 it. It isn't bringing it about. We got a lot of, again, the pitchforks are coming out, you know,

00:34:25.080 so I mean, one of the things going on is there's the, it's starting this month, the boycott

00:34:28.680 Loblaws thing is going on. Yes, yes, there's the big internet movement, the big Reddit movement

00:34:32.860 saying boycott Loblaws because they've been gouging everybody on their groceries and we've

00:34:36.660 got to boycott them. It doesn't matter how many times, how many studies, how many inquiries come

00:34:41.760 out out there. Loblaws isn't gouging anybody. You don't have to like them. You don't have to like

00:34:46.740 Galen Weston, but it's a public company and the numbers are there. Their profit margins are under

00:34:52.260 4%. That's it. They're not gouging. Grocery prices are going up. That's true. But it doesn't mean

00:35:00.460 that Loblaws is the one making them go up. In fact, it's quite competitive. And that's with

00:35:05.260 this boycott approval. For one, it's just internet talk. Boycotts don't work. People are going to

00:35:09.820 shop where it's most practical for them, where they get the better prices typically. If you don't

00:35:13.900 like Superstore, you can go to Walmart. Don't like Walmart, you can go to Safeway. Don't like

00:35:17.440 Safeway, you can go to co-op. There's a number of options out there. And Loblaws, ironically,

00:35:23.720 with Superstore and London Dierks, tends to be often one of the cheapest of them. They don't

00:35:27.340 have more room to come down. People say, oh, but look at the salary that Galen West is taking.

00:35:33.420 Oh, he's worth billions. I don't care. I don't care. I'm sick to death of politics of envy.

00:35:38.980 I couldn't give a rat's flying whatever. How much Galen West is worth? You know what? If all those

00:35:43.800 CEOs were down to a hundred thousand a year in salary. Do you know how much it would save you

00:35:47.900 on your grocery bill? About a dollar a month, maybe two. That's not where it's happening. So

00:35:53.200 let's look where the real issue is happening. And, uh, you know, so let's talk about bad policy

00:36:00.200 though. One of the areas, and it ties into the Trans Mountain finally being ready and coming up

00:36:06.160 at, uh, you know, what, seven times over budget once government took over. And I was just appalled

00:36:11.880 almost not surprised but appalled to see Premier Smith get up and start talking about high-speed

00:36:19.420 rail in Alberta. This is an idea that there are train fetishists out there. That's really what

00:36:25.080 they are. They got a thing for trains. They love trains. They think they're great. Good for you.

00:36:30.080 You love those things, but it doesn't mean they're economically feasible, and they certainly aren't

00:36:36.280 economically feasible everywhere. Premier Smith's always loved train sex. She even had a restaurant 1.00

00:36:41.560 in a train car for a while. But this is reeking of a pet project. This got studied, I don't know,

00:36:48.520 12 years ago. We spent a bunch of money. We did a big study on it, and we found that high-speed

00:36:54.440 rail won't work in Alberta. It doesn't work. We would need, it felt at that time, a population

00:37:00.120 of about 10 million people. And the ticket prices, again, if you're guessing on it, if it got built,

00:37:05.240 might be in the range of $200 to get Calgary to Edmonton. It just doesn't work. People keep

00:37:10.340 talking about, and I've been debating them online. I don't believe in blindly following

00:37:14.740 things. You see, that's where people got so upset with me, because I was critiquing Daniel Smith.

00:37:19.120 Well, I love a lot of what Premier Smith is doing. I've been very supportive of it, but this one's

00:37:23.260 a stinker, guys. This is bad news. Do not start moving towards this. We studied it. They said it 0.70

00:37:28.840 was crap. Leave it alone, but she won't. And when they did the way they were talking so gushingly 1.00

00:37:34.080 and everything. They say, we're just studying it. No, they're starting the groundwork to move towards

00:37:37.540 this. I get other people saying, oh, but look at how it works in Japan. Look at how it works in

00:37:41.920 France. Yeah, well, let's look at that. Japan has, what, 120 million people in an area that's only a

00:37:49.060 little bit bigger than half the size of Alberta. That's a rather big difference. We have four and

00:37:55.060 some million, maybe getting more towards five. Not even close, guys. Meanwhile, France, same sort of

00:38:02.040 thing. I think they have $60 million and far, far more dense. High-speed rail doesn't work for that. 0.61

00:38:09.020 Think of it. What if building that between Calgary and Edmonton? Okay. And let's say it

00:38:14.480 costs $10 billion. That means out of your pocket, right off the bat, and trust me, it'll cost more

00:38:19.380 than that. Think of expropriating all the land required. Think of all of the battles that'll

00:38:25.260 have to go on. The court challenges the rest. So let's say you've got that right of way going.

00:38:30.020 And then you got the stations built.

00:38:33.460 You got all that done.

00:38:34.380 You got that train in.

00:38:35.140 And let's say it was even $10 billion.

00:38:36.720 That means every man, woman, and child in Alberta will be shelling out about $2,000

00:38:41.260 each just to have it built.

00:38:43.260 That's what the cost would come into.

00:38:45.060 And of course, not everybody pays taxes.

00:38:46.420 So realistically, if you're a middle-class taxpayer, it's more like you're going to be

00:38:50.260 shouldering about $3,000 of that.

00:38:52.300 And then you're going to have to pay a couple hundred to ride this thing.

00:38:56.320 Maybe, or it'll be subsidized down.

00:38:58.360 so you'll pay all the time whether you ride it or not, and then get a relatively cheaper ticket.

00:39:03.380 We don't need this. It's ridiculous. 0.96

00:39:06.960 Get on, and people say, Highway 2, it's so crowded and nasty. 0.97

00:39:09.340 Yes, it is. So expand it.

00:39:11.200 Look at the vehicles on Highway 2 in Alberta.

00:39:14.060 Not all of them are going all the way from Calgary to Edmonton.

00:39:16.980 Some of them are going Calgary to Panoka.

00:39:18.720 Some of them are going Panoka to Westlock, you know, and past Edmonton, things like that.

00:39:24.180 And they're people with vehicles. They're people with families.

00:39:25.980 They're people with luggage.

00:39:26.940 do you really want to go through okay i'm gonna go from calgary to uh edmonton to visit aunt edna

00:39:32.200 there and i'll take the two kids so this is a family of four okay we're gonna take an uber and

00:39:37.780 pay that price or we'll drive to this train station and pay for parking you know check in

00:39:42.600 check our luggage spend a hundred dollars a head so it's four hundred dollars one way to get the

00:39:47.000 family up there without including the uber and parking costs and you get to the other side in

00:39:51.640 edmonton maybe half an hour earlier than you would have you just bloody drove even if it's a high

00:39:56.420 speed train because you had to stop Red Deer. And then, uh, then you got to get an Uber, get in that

00:40:01.500 and go all the way to Aunt Hedna's. And then you're stuck without a vehicle for your visit.

00:40:04.580 Well, you know, and you got to listen to her in terminal stories about her bad hip and things. 1.00

00:40:08.140 And you can't even make an excuse saying, I'm going to hop in the car and go to the liquor

00:40:12.200 store because you took the train. Look guys, it's going to be a very limited market. And then I've

00:40:19.080 had others talk about it. Look at Via Rail in Canada. It's a catastrophe. It's heavily, heavily

00:40:24.160 subsidized. And it's terrible service. And then there's other people say, well, that's because

00:40:29.380 they they have to share the tracks with CP and they don't get priority routing and things like

00:40:33.340 that. Well, okay. But then when we want to start talking about costs, when you're talking about

00:40:39.720 say the some people saying, well, we would just do Banff to Calgary on a conventional rail. Okay,

00:40:45.860 well, then you got to share the track. So it'll have the same problem as via.

00:40:50.320 So you're dealing with CP because they own that track.

00:40:53.180 Or you build another track.

00:40:56.020 And again, for people not familiar with Alberta, drive between Calgary and Banff.

00:41:00.580 What have you got going on there?

00:41:01.880 For one, there's a whole bunch of mountains you're going to have to blast once you get into the Canmore-Ekshaw region to get that track in there.

00:41:08.460 The other part is you're going through the Stony Reserve.

00:41:11.600 Yes, a great big First Nation you have to get through. 1.00

00:41:14.600 And it's their land, and they have every right to negotiate the best deal they can.

00:41:18.600 And again, if you're familiar with Calgary, we had a ring road that went through the Sutina

00:41:21.860 Reserve. It took 40 years to negotiate that. 40 years. It cost billions. And that's just a chunk

00:41:29.440 of ring road. How much do you think the Stoney is going to want to have a railroad track doubled

00:41:34.980 through their reserve? It ain't going to come cheap. Look, we don't want to rule out other

00:41:39.980 areas of transportation. We could talk about extending the LRT in Calgary. It's not a real

00:41:44.600 long shot anymore from the northeast to get it to the airport perhaps and people have talked about

00:41:49.900 well what about to Cochrane well again it's already moving up that way up Crowchild keep creeping it

00:41:54.480 up that way if you've got the demand and eventually you will have train transit going those ways but

00:41:58.660 look in Calgary as well we got the green line they're talking about the green line we've been

00:42:02.700 talking about for years and they've been ripping up downtown Calgary doing utility working crap on

00:42:07.240 it for years and it keeps you know they won't make the budget bigger which is five and some billion

00:42:11.400 But what they keep doing is making the Green Line smaller.

00:42:14.340 So, I mean, eventually this thing's only going to be one station at the rate they're going.

00:42:18.740 And taxpayers are on the hook.

00:42:20.320 We've got to remember the world's changing, too.

00:42:22.220 Part of the problem with the Green Line, people don't work downtown like they used to.

00:42:25.440 The office buildings in Calgary are still nearly empty all over the place.

00:42:28.700 We've got 30% vacancy going on down here.

00:42:30.960 We've got another boondoggle going on that showed with Gondek a little while ago,

00:42:35.760 where they were converting an old office building into residential units.

00:42:40.680 And it turns out that the contractors aren't getting paid now and it's getting stalled and

00:42:45.340 there's a big problem. Of course, the taxpayers are pumping millions into that as well. Guys,

00:42:50.080 people don't need to live downtown anymore. We haven't had to since the fax machine. That was

00:42:53.840 kind of the beginning of the end. You don't see the bike couriers running around with maps and

00:42:57.720 documents from oil company building to oil company building. In fact, a lot of people, that's one

00:43:02.600 thing COVID changed all around was people realizing I don't have to be down there all the time. I can

00:43:08.320 work from home. I can do a whole bunch of the stuff that I did at downtown on a laptop or on

00:43:13.620 a computer in my house. And they're doing that. Maybe not full-time, but part-time. So why are

00:43:18.500 we building more infrastructure to suck everybody into a centralized city? The reality is we're

00:43:23.760 growing out. Let's build to accommodate that. Let's get realistic. Let's look at, here's where,

00:43:30.220 okay, to be fair, where some of the right can go a little wild at times. Let's look at

00:43:35.040 complete communities, I think is the term they often use, you know, a new development that'll

00:43:38.680 be on the outside of a city, but it's higher density. And it also has a lot of the services

00:43:42.480 built in for that, because that way people don't have to commute into the center. So make sure

00:43:46.140 there's a school there, a medical facility there, retail space there, all of those things. So they

00:43:51.020 don't have to move as far. Good stuff. It's just good planning. And it could sell. But we got to

00:43:57.080 go out, not in, not up. Again, the people, if you care about affordable housing, high density

00:44:04.340 stinks. Look to every high density city in North America. It's easy. It's great. You can study

00:44:09.760 these things online. Look at the heavyweight high density cities. Look at Manhattan. Look at

00:44:14.520 San Francisco. Look at Seattle. High density. Also expensive as all hell for renters and

00:44:24.260 homeowners. Isn't that kind of contrary? But they've built up. Yes. So it doesn't matter

00:44:29.600 because the areas where you can get affordable is where you build out. You want to be affordable?

00:44:33.760 Las Vegas, Phoenix, Houston, even Tennessee is getting really good out there. These areas where

00:44:39.680 they're not fixated on this anti-suburban lunacy. They're just letting people build where they want

00:44:46.380 to go. Let people choose where they want to go. They will go there, but you got to get out of the

00:44:54.600 way. It gets back to that Trans Mountain thing too, right? This is an area, and that's what

00:44:58.060 Shane kept talking about as well. A lot of this, just get out of the way. Consumers will choose

00:45:03.400 what's right. They'll choose what works best. They'll choose fuel efficient green homes. Why?

00:45:09.220 Maybe not because ideologically they want to save the world and become the next Greta Thunberg. 0.62

00:45:13.440 It could be just because they want to save some money on the heating bill, which is a good

00:45:16.960 motivation. And they'll save money on electric or whatever it is, hot water. They will do the

00:45:22.160 upgrades. They will buy the houses that save the money on these things. If a solar panel on a new

00:45:27.400 house helps reduce some of your costs for water heating or supplements your energy a little,

00:45:31.820 and create. If it works for you, go for it. Don't have the government mandate it though. That's the

00:45:37.100 problem. And governments are all capable of bad, stupid ideas. So I got to close on that. It's 1.00

00:45:42.960 important to hold even, in fact, especially the governments you like, the politicians you like,

00:45:49.680 the ones you typically support. You have to speak up and hold them responsible when they drift.

00:45:54.560 We'll always yell at Trudeau. We'll always yell at Notley and Nenshi and the rest. But don't forget

00:45:59.420 to yell at Smith when she messes up too. Not yell at, but at least just say, hey, hey, hey, this is

00:46:03.940 the wrong path. Hold on. Course correction. You're supposed to be here for small government, not

00:46:09.660 building giant infrastructure boondoggle white elephants, which is what a high-speed rail will be.

00:46:14.860 It will be. And she shouldn't have missed. She's got 100 irons in the fire already. Why she took

00:46:20.780 off on this deviation into rail lines, you got a lot more to deal with already. Either way, that's

00:46:27.260 the time and ranting i got today guys and hey it's been interesting watching some of you guys

00:46:31.480 debating in the in the comment zone i like seeing that i appreciate it uh one more time i remind you

00:46:36.680 by the end i forgot that earlier i usually do it the news check-in take out a subscription

00:46:40.340 westernstandard.news subscription become a member it's 9.99 a month that's what funds us that's how

00:46:45.460 we get by that's how the government stays out of us over here and if you've already subscribed we

00:46:49.940 appreciate it so thank you very much for tuning in today guys uh tune in next week we'll have

00:46:55.160 another good show on the go and, uh, well, I'll rant at you then. Thanks.

00:47:25.160 Thank you.

Western Standard - May 02, 2024

Trades should be celebrated, not shamed

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