Western Standard - Trudeau fights Liberal caucus revolt

00:00:00.560 Good day. Today is October 23rd, 2020-24. I am Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western

00:00:07.360 Standard, and you're watching The Pipeline. I'm joined, as always, by Western Standard

00:00:12.220 opinion editor, Nigel Hannaford.

00:00:15.280 Lots of opinions today, Derek.

00:00:17.400 Don't get into yourself. And Western Standard senior Alberta columnist, Corey Morgan.

00:00:21.600 Always a pleasure.

00:00:22.340 We've got a very full show today. So much politics. Trudeau is fighting back a liberal

00:00:31.740 caucus revolt. Yes, 24 liberal MPs have put their names to a letter saying, please don't

00:00:40.900 run. We don't want to lose our seats. We're going to talk about the incredible stalemate

00:00:45.960 of BC's election, which is not yet really decided. Days later, we still really don't

00:00:52.120 know who the government of BC is going to be yet. We're going to bring in the Western

00:00:55.660 Standards, Alberta, sorry, British Columbia Bureau Chief for that. And we're going to

00:01:01.200 go to the election in Saskatchewan, which has been so boring so far, but it's actually heated

00:01:06.680 up. We've got polls showing the race is tightened up. Some actually showing the NDP in the lead.

00:01:12.400 And some very interesting topics, issues that have bubbled up there from our reporter, Chris

00:01:18.860 Old Corn. Okay, so gentlemen, we're going to start in Ottawa with what's going on there.

00:01:27.780 So this has been coming for some time. There's been some dissent in the liberal caucus for

00:01:33.880 some time. But finally, 24 liberal MPs put their names to ink and paper today and presented

00:01:42.520 it to Justin Trudeau at a caucus meeting, calling on him to step down for a variety of reasons,

00:01:48.160 generally, mostly that they are quite convinced and probably correct that they will lose the

00:01:54.200 election if he stays on as liberal leader. And he, Justin Trudeau said, well, that's that's

00:02:01.800 very nice. But go stuff yourself. This came up incredibly, actually, we'll turn to Paul

00:02:10.360 Liam's reaction after we've got some great video of that. But let's talk about this first. We'll

00:02:16.040 start with you, Corey. The liberals don't really seem to have a lot of fire in their belly. I mean,

00:02:27.040 to go after the leader is a big political move. And 24 of them had the guts to put their name to

00:02:33.540 paper. I suspect it's actually quite a bit more in there, because even if they like the guy and

00:02:38.380 everything he's done, they don't want to lose their seats. For most MPs, this is the best job

00:02:43.120 they're ever going to have. Trudeau has said, nope, I'm not stepping down. In fact, the liberals are,

00:02:53.180 quote, strong and united. Every single word of that sentence is a lie. But how strong a hand do

00:03:04.100 the rebel liberals have here to try and get Trudeau to step aside? Not much. I mean, there's no

00:03:09.600 mechanism if they can't get up more of them to stand up and put their names forward and push on

00:03:14.820 this. But they're flailing. I guess they could hope that if they can keep pressure on him, keep

00:03:19.480 pressure on him, he'll finally relent and give up. Or maybe some others will find the courage. I think

00:03:24.560 some are, as you said, they're in the closet. They want him gone, but they're not going to come

00:03:29.420 out in the open and say it, because they don't want to be the ones listed as being one of the

00:03:33.220 treacherous ones. As they're hoping down the road under another leader, they're still in office. And

00:03:38.820 they don't want to be one of the rebel gang, I guess you could say. But I just don't know. It's a

00:03:44.300 dark comedy to watch what's unfolding with this. And it's only going to get worse. I just don't see

00:03:49.640 what else will turn anything around. I disagree with you a bit that there's no mechanism. And

00:03:54.600 I've seen this reported across the media today. The most obvious mechanism would be the Reform Act

00:04:01.000 without getting too far into the weeds. It's a piece of legislation that came from a private

00:04:05.600 members bill, Michael Chong, when Harper was prime minister. And it allows the caucus to remove the

00:04:11.100 leader by secret ballot if they get a certain number of people in a petition requesting it.

00:04:15.680 And every caucus is supposed to, by law, have a vote on if the Reform Act applies to their caucus or

00:04:21.300 not immediately after every election when the new caucus meets for the first time. The liberals broke

00:04:26.460 that law and did not even have a vote on it. So yes, they cannot invoke the Reform Act, it seems.

00:04:34.560 But Nigel, I think there is a mechanism. And it's just the Westminster Constitution.

00:04:41.100 That no leader can lead a caucus in parliament without the confidence of said caucus. Can the

00:04:49.400 caucus not simply vote non-confidence? If, say, the numbers were there. The Reform Act codifies this,

00:04:56.340 makes it a cleaner process in the era where the leaders are not elected from caucus, they're elected

00:05:00.520 by party members at large. But is there really no mechanism? Or does just the old Westminster

00:05:08.360 constitution allow the caucus, the Turfum, if they so choose? 0.93

00:05:12.900 Well, theoretically, yes. But in that circumstance, the idea is that the governor general would then

00:05:18.360 turn around and say, well, who is there who could form a government? And I think at that point,

00:05:23.700 fine, there wasn't anybody who could form a government that would enjoy the confidence of the

00:05:28.180 House. And he would just end up with an election anyway. And that's what I think has happened here this

00:05:33.300 morning. He called a bluff and said, well, I know you don't like me. I know you think I'm leading you

00:05:38.800 to certain defeat. We can actually test that theory before Christmas, if you really believe that is

00:05:45.220 the case. I could call a vote. I could drop the rent tomorrow. Takes one short drive to the governor

00:05:51.220 general's mansion. So if that's what you want me to do, ladies and gentlemen, I can do that. But I think

00:05:57.360 the smarter way to ensure that your pensions will vest is that you go with me until next October

00:06:07.600 and hope that nothing happens in the meantime to upset that. So what do you want? I hope we come

00:06:15.000 strong and united. I think you got a bang on there. They can remove them constitutionally. Now,

00:06:21.660 generally, if they vote on confidence in the leader, they're not expected to test their confidence in

00:06:26.600 the House immediately that day. They could then pick an interim leader and present that as an interim

00:06:32.300 prime minister and then test the confidence of the House. So there is ways. But the Reform Act

00:06:38.180 really makes it nice and clear and clean, as we saw when the Conservatives ousted Erin O'Toole.

00:06:45.160 That was as clean as the guillotine on Mary Antoinette. Like, that came off fast.

00:06:51.480 Charming thing. Yeah. But I mean, they were able to defenestrate the leader extremely quickly and

00:07:01.220 cleanly. And they moved right on the next day into the leadership race. So Trudeau, rather defiant.

00:07:08.980 I, we're gonna, we're gonna play a clip here. It, I generally don't watch Question Period, but it was

00:07:16.660 on in the background while I was working in my office. And it caught my attention. Because this was

00:07:22.760 peak Trudeau. It, Polyev was asking some questions. Really ribbing. He was twisting the knife in Trudeau's

00:07:33.240 ribs on this one. And, and it really got under the Prime Minister's skin. Let's, let's roll the video.

00:07:39.820 The Honorable Leader of the Opposition.

00:07:41.540 Twenty-four Liberal MPs went to caucus, to his caucus today to tell him that he's not worth the crime,

00:07:46.980 cost, or corruption. They wanted to tell him that he's doubled housing costs, doubled the national

00:07:52.280 debt, sent two million people to the food banks. But he wouldn't let them. He silenced half of the

00:07:57.900 dissidents. In fact, some were intimidated so much so that even Rosemary Barton, the Prime Minister's

00:08:03.020 favourite journalist, said, people don't have phones in the room, and some people are going to the

00:08:06.720 bathroom texting us. Mr. Speaker, will the Prime Minister text those dissident Liberal MPs, tell them to

00:08:13.980 come out of the bathroom, and tell the whole world that he's not worth the cost?

00:08:22.180 The right Honorable Prime Minister.

00:08:23.940 Mr. Speaker, in our caucus, people have always been free to speak their mind and have different perspectives.

00:08:29.380 What is interesting, Mr. Speaker, is nobody in the Conservative caucus seems to have spoken

00:08:35.080 out when one of their members got an all-expenses-paid trip to an extreme anti-abortion church in Florida.

00:08:42.380 Nobody spoke out when one of the members on their front bench went and dined with white nationalists,

00:08:50.080 far-right German nationalists, and nobody spoke up and is continuing to speak up when their leader refuses

00:08:57.720 to get a security clearance so he can deal with foreign interference.

00:09:01.740 Okay, so, Polyev, according to him, and it seems to line up with what I've heard, there were Liberal MPs who

00:09:14.060 excused themselves from the caucus meeting to go to the bathroom, and they were texting Conservatives.

00:09:18.880 So, Polyev really ribbing Trudeau, saying, you know, let your MPs out of the bathroom, you know, let them speak freely, and

00:09:30.540 Polyev, Trudeau started with the fanciful notion that, oh, Liberals are all allowed to speak freely.

00:09:37.960 I've been a politician. No one in politics is allowed to speak freely in any party, particularly the Liberals,

00:09:44.380 but no one is. But then he just couldn't help himself. Question about the Liberal caucus revolt

00:09:51.800 against himself? Well, you know, well, abortion. Ah, extreme abortion. And then, oh, white nationalists,

00:10:00.120 Germans even, he brought up. Let's start with you, Nigel. This is the kind of reflexive go-to area for,

00:10:09.340 you know, the saying, what is a racist? Someone winning an argument with a Liberal. You know,

00:10:16.040 this is the go-to progressivist attack when they're under fire, when they have no good logical arguments

00:10:22.160 to make anymore, they just say, racist. They point the finger. That's what Trudeau's doing here.

00:10:29.260 Absolutely. Well, of course he is. I mean, where else is he going to go? Used to be said that the

00:10:33.820 patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, while calling other people racist is the last

00:10:41.300 refuge of an embattled Liberal Prime Minister who doesn't have any friends sitting on the same side

00:10:47.380 of the house as he's standing. So, kind of sad that he goes that way, but frankly, a tactical victory

00:10:54.740 for Pierre Poilievre. You know, there's another thing coming up here that he's going to have to

00:11:01.780 take note of in a, well, actually, as soon as next week, because the Quebecois put him on notice

00:11:08.480 last week that, come October the 29th, they would be looking for an answer from him on whether he was,

00:11:19.100 had second thoughts about backing that. Meeting their demands, yeah. Meeting their demands,

00:11:23.640 which were extra pay for old-age pensioners. You know, the block where Blackwell has my vote, 0.91

00:11:30.140 I must confess. But he's got through this one. He's got to get through the next one.

00:11:37.340 And this is going to be probably a tough weekend for him. Not that I care about it.

00:11:43.540 Yeah. Corey, this was obviously, one way or another, it's a bad day for Justin Trudeau.

00:11:50.160 When you have roughly a fifth of your caucus on paper demanding you go, which is more than the

00:11:55.940 result, I think, on paper demanding that O'Toole go in the petition demanding a secret ballot vote

00:12:01.120 on the Reform Act. That's a bad day. And Poiliev came in and, as I said, he put the knife in Trudeau's

00:12:10.580 ribs and just started carving and made it as uncomfortable for him as possible. But, you know,

00:12:17.280 there's an old saying in politics that when your enemy is destroying himself, don't get in his way.

00:12:23.420 Do you think this was a wise move for Poiliev to come in and twist the knife here?

00:12:28.840 Or does going after him unite the liberals? Because, you know, he's their common enemy.

00:12:35.620 A lot of them might be after Trudeau right now. But by making himself so present and inserting

00:12:40.440 himself into this internal liberal debate, is he getting in the way of the liberals cutting

00:12:46.020 themselves up?

00:12:47.180 I don't think so in this case. I think he's opening a wound larger that's there. And it's humiliating.

00:12:52.420 The liberals who are quietly sitting on those benches, all parroting. I mean, they all came

00:12:57.460 out of their thing with the exact same words. Strong and united. Strong and united. Strong and united.

00:13:01.320 And that's a group that came down with the law rained down on them saying, shut up. This is your

00:13:06.680 line. This is what you're going to say. And they there's a lot of unhappy faces in there. And we

00:13:11.600 know as well as anybody when your own caucus is upset and starts leaking from within. I mean,

00:13:16.960 that's the thing that Poiliev was getting at, too, with the bathroom leaks. Jason Kenney certainly

00:13:20.380 learned what happens. I mean, that leak can turn into a waterfall when they're frustrated. They can't

00:13:24.860 speak openly anymore, but they can really undercut their leader quietly from within. And I think

00:13:30.360 Poiliev is going to try and exacerbate that. And I think it'll be effective.

00:13:35.780 Yeah. So I remember thinking back to, you know, when Daniel Smith and the Wild Rose were really

00:13:42.820 going for the throat of Alison Redford. But then Alison Redford dropped so low in the polls that the 1.00

00:13:47.700 Wild Rose realized that Alison Redford was their meal ticket. If Alison Redford stays the PC leader, 0.53

00:13:55.200 they're going to win the next election. The Wild Rose is going to win the next election. 0.89

00:13:59.960 And you can see when she

00:14:01.780 faced real internal caucus revolt, the Wild Rose

00:14:06.060 guns fell silent. They stopped shooting

00:14:09.860 at her because they wanted to save her. And so that's kind of the other side

00:14:13.900 to the question I was asking you before, Corey,

00:14:15.920 Pauliev is trying to save Trudeau, I think. I think he's better with fighting Trudeau than

00:14:27.880 anyone else in the next election. To a degree, but how long do you drag it out? I mean, he's got his

00:14:30.920 own battles. He's got his own thing to hold together. He's got, I mean, they are riding high

00:14:35.080 now. You want to get to those polls now because they can change in here. And if you can cause that

00:14:41.760 party to crack or collapse, because even if Trudeau does get replaced, if that's the worst,

00:14:46.720 you know, yes, you've knocked him out, you're your best ally. There's no savior in the wings,

00:14:50.600 I don't believe at this point, that can turn that party around. It could improve the fate

00:14:53.820 of a Trudeau led election. But I don't think there's any, the liberals are going to be in

00:14:58.160 the wilderness for at least an electoral cycle. And I don't think Pauliev wants to gamble on trying

00:15:03.360 to facilitate Trudeau being in longer, just to get score bigger points if and when the time comes to

00:15:08.400 get the election. I don't think so anyways. All right. All right. Well, let's turn to our

00:15:14.020 friends, Westerer from us on the West Coast. We're going to bring in Western Standard, BC Bureau Chief

00:15:21.580 and Managing Editor of West Coast Standard, Jared Yager. Jared, you are pretty tired, I'm sure,

00:15:30.140 from following this long BC election campaign, which as they now do with fixed election dates starts

00:15:36.380 effectively much earlier than they officially do. But the results were astounding. The initial,

00:15:44.920 the unofficial results so far, 46 NDP, 45 conservative, two green. So, but there's a pretty good chance,

00:15:58.120 right, that these unofficial results could switch. Why don't you break it down? It's especially,

00:16:04.000 in particular, two constituencies in BC where there's automatic recounts taking place and the margins

00:16:11.500 are pretty thin. Why don't you break that down for us? Okay. So, yeah, as you said, it was 40,

00:16:17.540 46 NDP, 45 for the Conservatives. But in those two writings, Juan de Fuca, Malahat, and Surrey Centre,

00:16:24.380 the NDP won those two by 23 votes and 96 votes respectively. And so there's still 49,000 mostly

00:16:32.880 mail-in ballots that need to be counted between the 26th and 28th. That's the final count. So there's

00:16:41.720 a pretty good chance that the Conservatives could pick up those two writings. And if everything else

00:16:47.840 stays the same, then that gives them a majority. But most of the mail-in ballots are coming from

00:16:56.480 more rural areas, areas where the Conservatives have already secured the seats. So there's also

00:17:03.760 a possibility that they could go in the NDP's favour and maybe lead to an NDP majority or kind of keep

00:17:12.320 things out there right now. I've seen some commentary about Juan de Fuca in particular.

00:17:17.280 So for folks who don't know, Juan de Fuca, does that include Esquimalt? That includes the Esquimalt

00:17:22.880 naval base, right? I believe so, yes. All right. So that's the major Canadian naval base. Yeah,

00:17:31.900 I know that's a bit of an oxymoron, but at least in terms of what we have, it's Canada's major

00:17:38.560 naval base on the West Coast. So there's a lot of military personnel there. Military personnel

00:17:45.440 tend to skew heavily conservative in how they vote, and they would have a lot of mail-in ballots

00:17:49.840 in particular. And that's the closest one. That's like, I think you said like 22 votes.

00:17:54.800 That could flip in a recount. Yeah, 23. A hundred votes could flip in a recount, but it's a lot harder.

00:18:03.200 I mean, the initial count is generally fairly accurate. A few things can move. A hundred votes

00:18:08.000 moving from one side to the other. That's a steeper hill to climb. But it's not an implausible scenario

00:18:19.040 that the Conservatives maybe take Juan de Fuca. So it goes 46 Conservative, 45 NDP, but then two green,

00:18:26.480 which would still leave, that would leave the Conservatives in a, with a plurality of seats,

00:18:33.520 but not a majority. I'm interested in how the, how you think the Greens will react here,

00:18:39.200 because the Greens are obviously much more ideal, have a more ideological affinity with the NDP here.

00:18:46.080 But the last time the Greens backed the NDP in an effective coalition supply agreement,

00:18:52.240 the NDP turned around under John Horkin and screwed them, called an early election, broke the deal so

00:18:58.240 that they could go for a majority taking advantage of a panic around COVID. So the NDP are, the Greens

00:19:05.760 are more, are much closer ideologically to the NDP. But who do you think they would dance with if,

00:19:11.840 say, the Conservatives have one more seat than, than the NDP here, but still not a majority?

00:19:17.360 Well, yeah, in the, in the press conference yesterday, Evie was asked this question,

00:19:24.320 and the reporter brought up the fact that in the last days of the election, the NDP was going

00:19:31.360 pretty hard at Green Party voters telling them, oh, you know, don't, don't vote for them, vote for the NDP.

00:19:37.760 And so I don't know if they can bounce back from that and, you know, regain the support of the,

00:19:43.440 of the Greens. And like you said, it happened last time. Who's to say this time,

00:19:46.800 they won't do the exact same thing. But then again, based on what Sonja Furstenau has said

00:19:55.200 about John Rustad and the, the Conservative Party itself. I don't know, personally, I doubt that they

00:20:01.280 would join forces with a party that's that diametrically opposed on climate change, which

00:20:07.280 is the Greens biggest issue. Yeah. Nigel, that's, that's, that's my inclination. I think there's

00:20:14.960 probably some hurt, more hurt feelings between the NDP and the Greens. They compete for a very

00:20:20.800 similar voter pool. The Green leader lost her seat to the NDP. She tried to switch seats. And the NDP

00:20:30.800 threw a disproportionate amount of resources to stop her. They really wanted to stop her because they

00:20:37.200 really want to kill the Greens if they can in BC because they're, they're bleeding vote on, on the

00:20:41.040 more extreme left flank of their party. But the ideological affinity is, is just so much closer.

00:20:48.800 I don't really know why a BC Green party exists when you've got the BC NDP. Can you imagine a case

00:20:55.840 where the, where the Greens would actually back the Conservatives here? Well, not in this case,

00:20:59.200 no, because John Rustad, the reason that he left the Liberals when they were still the Liberals,

00:21:05.440 was that he fell out with the leadership over this very matter of climate change. And they said, well,

00:21:10.400 if you want to go and spout this nonsense, off you go. So off he went and now he's there and they're not.

00:21:16.320 So it's kind of pretty clear how the public has spoken on that. But the, given that start to the thing,

00:21:23.840 I can't imagine how the Greens could, that would be cynicism. And one thing about the Green party,

00:21:28.640 you know, you laugh at them, you mock them, you think they're, I say you, I really mean me. But at

00:21:38.800 least there's a purity of spirit about them. They actually say what they believe in. They put their

00:21:44.480 hand on it and they spout it. And you think, where are they coming from? But you know that deep in their

00:21:50.160 hearts, they believe what they say. I have to admire that. And the other thing, you say, well,

00:21:58.240 why would it, why would there even be a Green party when you've got the NDP? Don't forget,

00:22:02.480 there are two, there are two bricks in that NDP wall. There's the, you know, there's the blue color,

00:22:09.680 what's left of it. And then there is that, that green sentiment, which is quite strong in the NDP.

00:22:16.080 So I guess the, the Greens would, you know, drink their coffee with the, with the NDP greeners and 0.88

00:22:22.160 maybe carry on cutting the, the blue collar guys who are totally opposed to them. It could work.

00:22:30.160 Corey, so it seems to me, unless the Conservatives could achieve an outright majority on their own,

00:22:36.080 there's not going to be such a thing as a conservative minority government here, especially

00:22:39.760 because they're not the incumbent. The NDP has the first right constitutionally to test the confidence

00:22:44.960 of the BC legislature. And they could probably offer some pretty juicy carrots to the NDP.

00:22:51.440 Who knows, maybe even formal coalition, the first Greens to sit in a cabinet. I don't really know what

00:22:58.400 the aversion in Canada is to this. I think some of it comes from the coalition crisis of 2000 and,

00:23:06.720 was it 2009, Nigel?

00:23:07.920 Uh, 2008.

00:23:09.760 2008, yeah. I think that kind of tainted the word coalition because it was trying to bring the

00:23:15.760 bloc into it, which was a, it was a bridge too far for, for many people. But constitutionally,

00:23:25.280 there's nothing wrong with coalition governments. Um, if you're, uh, David Eby and, uh, you need

00:23:31.440 those two green votes to stay premier, uh, how far are you willing to go?

00:23:34.800 I think you go fairly far to court it, but he's got cards to play too. I mean, just after an election

00:23:40.720 this contentious, the electorate will not smile on any party, bringing that government down fast.

00:23:46.160 I mean, they've got some breathing space to say that they're going to try things, uh, find cooperation.

00:23:51.760 John Rustad says he's going to do it right away if he can. Yeah, I know. And I gotta, he could say

00:23:55.920 that, you know, but I mean, he's sitting in two options. He's either going to not have the numbers

00:23:59.920 to do it or he's going to have a majority. That's, that's the two options really ahead of him. So he

00:24:04.240 can say such things, but to actually pull them down shortly after, I think whoever, whichever party

00:24:09.200 did that would be very harshly treated, including the greens. If, if they were a kingmaker and they 0.94

00:24:14.720 went down on a bill that wasn't a real hill to die on with the NDP. I think if they're looking at the long

00:24:19.600 game, maybe he's got to talk to the greens and they got to figure something out. As you said,

00:24:22.960 why not? You know, give a cabinet spot, try to find something formal to entrench this for more

00:24:26.560 than a couple of years. But I, their back isn't fully against the wall either. I don't think they're

00:24:31.840 going to get, I mean, the conservatives and greens aren't going to get together to tear down

00:24:35.200 an NDP minority. Well, anything's possible, but I see that as a very unlikely scenario, unless

00:24:40.720 EB tried something very aggressive policy wise to start out the new government. So it'll be very

00:24:45.520 interesting to watch. They got a lot to consider. Well, that actually is interesting because really

00:24:49.280 neither party has a mandate. No, it's so close. What is it about 30,000 people? Maybe Jared knows,

00:24:56.080 but, uh, something in, in with like 1.6 million people, um, turning out to vote there's like they're

00:25:04.400 about 30,000 apart. Is it something like that, Jared? It was around there. Yeah. It's pretty close.

00:25:10.160 Um, I mean, talk about divided down the middle. Uh, Jared, let's talk about, uh, the NDP courting

00:25:18.880 dance of, of the greens here. Uh, the greens to me always stand for two things, uh, fight against

00:25:26.640 global warming and more seats for themselves, which means proportional representation in some form.

00:25:33.040 Uh, uh, the, uh, have the NDP made much in the way of noise about saying, Hey, if you're going to want

00:25:41.600 our support in this, uh, government, you're going to have to give us proportional representation?

00:25:48.160 Um, not really. No, nobody's really came out with anything yet, but, uh, yeah, at his press conference

00:25:54.080 yesterday, EB was asked if he would consider proportional representation and he kind of dodged the question,

00:25:59.600 but I think, uh, yeah, above, above everything else, I think that's the greens biggest, uh,

00:26:06.000 push right now. First enough, she mentioned that numerous times throughout the campaign.

00:26:10.720 And I think, uh, yeah, I mean, we, we've already had a number of referendums on that issue

00:26:17.440 and British Columbians have made it pretty clear how they feel, but I don't know, maybe after

00:26:22.960 an election like this, where it's so close and there's just gridlock and, you know, who knows

00:26:29.600 if anything is going to get done, maybe they'd be open to it this time around.

00:26:36.400 Yeah. I think that's, uh, that's the funny thing. And, you know, those are two big things

00:26:41.600 that greens care about, but I bet you they would let the world burst into flames and warming if it 0.96

00:26:46.880 meant that they got proportional representation. Uh, and I, and I feel for them, uh, you know,

00:26:51.920 there's been times like, I think the NDP got, um, what was it? Uh, did they get close to 10% in BC?

00:27:01.760 Oh, in the, in the federal election? No, no. The one you just had.

00:27:08.240 You see the NDP. Oh, sorry. I misspoke. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Like what percentage do the, uh,

00:27:13.120 the greens get? Um, Oh, of the, the popular, yeah, it was, it was pretty, pretty low under 10%.

00:27:21.840 Yeah. Either way, the NDP, the greens at small parties in general always get less seats than their

00:27:28.560 percentage would otherwise given a, in a strict PR system. Uh, but you know, they, they seem always

00:27:34.400 intent on foisting it on a public when changing the electoral system requires, uh, for democratic

00:27:41.600 legitimacy requires a fairly broad degree of buy-in and from the two major parties. If one party just

00:27:48.240 changes it on the other, it's seen as rigging the system. And, and, and that's, I think one reason

00:27:52.960 this, this, this tends to fail. And it is funny to note that, um, the, we're in provinces where the

00:27:58.400 BC, uh, sorry, we're in provinces where the NDP are competitive to win government. They never support

00:28:04.160 proportional representation because they can win a majority government in jurisdictions where they can't,

00:28:09.920 like, uh, I don't know, federally. The NDP seems to really like the idea of proportional representation,

00:28:16.880 which is why on this whole debate around PR, I've just come to accept your position on

00:28:22.480 proportional representation has 99% to do with, does it benefit the party you vote for or not?

00:28:29.440 I'm surprised that you are so cynical about the process, Derek. My word.

00:28:34.560 When I belong to small parties, I like proportional representation. When I haven't,

00:28:38.800 I hated it. I, I, I, I was just being honest with myself and I thought, uh, you know what? Yeah,

00:28:44.160 my position on it really just tends to align with, does it benefit the party I vote for?

00:28:48.800 Well, sure. Like going way, way back, I can't forget which columnist it was that wrote on that back when

00:28:53.280 I led the Alberta independence party, but he brought up me as a, a foiled against proportional

00:28:58.560 representation was discussed at the time. Just saying, you know, if you had PR, Corey Morgan

00:29:02.560 would probably be sitting in there with four lunatic separatists next to him in the legislature.

00:29:07.280 It's the best argument I've heard. Is that what you want? I was like, bring it on. But, uh, no such

00:29:11.920 luck. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's a fair comment that if you have PR, you probably get a

00:29:17.280 succession of unstable governments because you're not making deals on the side.

00:29:21.760 Is that happening in Italy? No. Okay. That's because they're Italians. 0.99

00:29:25.600 Well, we're going on a rabbit hole now. But yeah, I mean, but like, uh,

00:29:29.920 almost every country in continental Europe has some form of it. Um, uh, the Italians have it, 0.98

00:29:37.120 but, uh, I, I'm attributing that to them just being Italians. All right. Uh, Jared, 0.84

00:29:41.920 thank you very much for joining us. Uh, we'll let you get back to work. Go in BC there.

00:29:45.760 All right. Uh, we're going to turn now to our friends, uh, just east of us. Uh, we're going

00:29:52.080 to bring in Saskatchewan, uh, uh, Western standard Saskatchewan bureau chief and managing editor of

00:29:57.520 Saskatchewan standard, Chris old corn, uh, Chris, uh, you've been, uh, on the campaign trail, uh,

00:30:04.800 quickly, uh, closely watching things, uh, election coming, I believe Monday, right?

00:30:10.160 That is correct. Uh, early voting has opened, uh, it opened yesterday, but, uh, yeah,

00:30:15.040 the election day is on Monday, the 28th. Okay. So I know, uh, you've written an analysis piece

00:30:21.280 today, uh, that, you know, this was an extremely boring election, but it's become, uh, much more

00:30:28.960 exciting now. Uh, much of it actually, uh, in fact, due to the reporting, uh, that you've done

00:30:33.680 that, uh, you know, there were, uh, in this grade seven class, there's biological males who are allowed

00:30:39.200 to use the girls' room, uh, uh, that it gets crazier. It's not just, there's two biological

00:30:44.640 males in the seventh grade, they're brothers. So mathematically it's nearly impossible that they 0.98

00:30:50.080 would actually be transgendered. This is, this seems odd. And, uh, but it all seems to make sense 0.95

00:30:55.040 when you learn that they are the children of ABC NDP, uh, sorry, Saskatchewan NDP MLA.

00:31:01.280 Uh, that's, that's, that's kind of really, uh, injected some, uh, some interesting life into

00:31:06.960 the campaign that had otherwise been pretty boring. Yes. Uh, up until that point, the campaign had

00:31:13.040 basically been the NDP harping on education and healthcare, but, uh, just like education spending

00:31:22.320 needs to go up, nothing really beyond that. Uh, and then healthcare, they were just pointing out,

00:31:27.200 you know, issues with Saskatchewan healthcare, uh, which regardless of whether or not the NDP or

00:31:32.400 the SAS party is in, they still have the same healthcare issues as every other province in

00:31:36.080 Canada. Uh, except the NDP seem to think that they can wave a wand and all of a sudden all kinds of

00:31:41.040 doctors and nurses are going to move here, uh, and want to work in rural Saskatchewan, uh, which is

00:31:47.360 clearly, uh, you know, pie in the sky, uh, hopefulness, uh, as if that was the case, the SAS party would

00:31:54.560 have been able to already do it. Um, they're going to fix the problem. The way the SAS party

00:31:59.520 is going to fix the problem now is, is that they've just increased the amount of nurses and 0.89

00:32:03.200 doctors were training in the province and then making it, uh, making them want to stay in the

00:32:10.000 province. They've, uh, I mean, one of the boring things that the SAS party originally ran on, uh,

00:32:15.520 when they began this campaign was raising the income tax. So you would pay less, uh, that would 0.94

00:32:21.360 basically remove about 59,000 people from the tax rolls. But then the other thing was the

00:32:26.560 graduate retention bonus. They increased that as well, depending on how many years you went to

00:32:31.520 school in Saskatchewan to get the nurses and doctors and other professional medical people

00:32:37.200 in particular to stay here once they finished school. Okay. All right. Uh, well, I want to talk

00:32:42.240 about, uh, some of the polling here, uh, to date, uh, I want to see if you're, you're, you're changing

00:32:48.480 your tone here. Uh, to date, you've been pretty confident that the Saskatchewan party has got this

00:32:53.120 in the bag that the NDP were going to gain some seats, but math was just too difficult for them

00:32:59.840 to get to a majority government. But, uh, there is a new poll out from, uh, CTV and then Citrix,

00:33:06.560 uh, research, uh, that has the NDP at 50%, the Saskatchewan party at 45% and, uh, 5% for others. Now,

00:33:16.320 um, even if the math is difficult for the NDP because they're just so unpopular in rural Alberta,

00:33:22.960 uh, at a 5% lead, even an inefficient vote will generally triumph in the end. Um, what are your

00:33:32.080 thoughts? That poll is from Insitrix. And all I will say about that is if you go to 338 Canada,

00:33:38.080 you will find they get the lowest grade of a poll in all of Saskatchewan history.

00:33:42.800 It's not worth the paper it's written on. As a matter of fact, when 338 put the numbers in from

00:33:48.640 that Insitrix poll, the amount of seats the Sask party was going to win actually went up a seat.

00:33:54.640 Uh, that poll is not, let's just say Insitrix is filled with people who were former NDP staffers.

00:34:02.240 Uh, and that poll is to try and influence, uh, people to vote to the NDP. But as far as if you

00:34:08.640 actually did a real poll like Angus Reed or something, you find that the SAS party is up by

00:34:12.480 at least 10%. So you have not changed your prediction. Uh, you're, you're solid that the

00:34:16.880 SAS party has got this, uh, just with the reduced majority. Yep. 3822. Um, if anything, that Insitrix 0.99

00:34:23.280 poll because of its, the, the, the method that they used, um, I can see actually why the seat count went

00:34:30.560 up for the, the SAS party by one seat actually. Nigel, I want to, uh, let, let, let's make sure

00:34:36.160 I saw you wrote that down. Uh, we're going to hold Chris, uh, to account on these numbers.

00:34:42.720 Uh, he better, you know, if you're wrong, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna rub it your face,

00:34:46.640 Chris, uh, go ahead. Uh, you can rub it in all you want, but, uh, there's not gonna be nothing to

00:34:51.040 rub in. So I'm fine with that. Um, well, actually, uh, what happened, you've got a couple of fringe

00:34:58.800 parties there who could bleed off just enough votes. They're at 5% and in this particular

00:35:04.480 poll, this particular poll, 5% could make a difference. Who knows? What do you think?

00:35:09.680 Uh, well, that's split over several parties. Um, the PCs are going to get, you know, their usual

00:35:15.120 around 1% of the vote. Uh, the Buffalo party is doing well in a couple of ridings, but when I say

00:35:20.560 doing well, we're talking mid to high teens, uh, and same with SAS United, uh, none of them are

00:35:27.280 actually pulling really high enough to win seats. Um, and particularly when Mo came out, uh, with

00:35:34.720 regards to our story about Belgonia elementary school and saying that, uh, the first thing is

00:35:39.360 government would do with the ministerial order, that biological boys would be in the boys change 0.69

00:35:44.480 room and biological girls in the girls change room. Uh, that kind of ate the lunch of the SAS United 1.00

00:35:49.200 party because that was their thing, parents' rights. And, uh, even the SAS United released

00:35:55.520 a press release, even stating that, you know, Mo sold the idea from them. So with Mo now willing

00:36:01.360 to do that, and that's the first thing he's going to direct his minister of education to,

00:36:05.680 he's once again solidified his party for the time being anyways, that, uh, they are the party of

00:36:11.280 parents' rights. So one other thing, Chris, when last week we had a, uh, an item that ran and talked

00:36:19.280 about the, the way in which the tide seemed to be turning on the trans issue. And we pointed out that

00:36:26.640 in new, it had started in New Brunswick where Wayne Higgs, the premier had been the first among the

00:36:33.120 premiers to actually say, this is rubbish. Let's not do it. And then of course it spread in Ontario

00:36:40.560 and in Saskatchewan where Scott Mo picked it up and Danielle Smith came out very strongly.

00:36:46.480 Now what we saw this week was that Blaine Higgs went down rather badly in the provincial election

00:36:52.960 there. Do you think possibly we misunderstood the popularity of, what shall we say, the traditional

00:37:02.800 pro-parents' rights, uh, feelings across the country? And that, that could be a problem for Mr. Mo?

00:37:10.560 No, because I think, uh, if you look particularly at federal polling, uh, Saskatchewan is by far like

00:37:17.040 even more conservative than, uh, Alberta is. Like this province is going to go completely blue

00:37:22.720 in the next federal election, including Saskatoon and Regina. Um, the east coast tends to be a bit more

00:37:30.000 of a liberal stronghold. Uh, obviously it's crumbling a bit now under Trudeau. Uh, but like when he

00:37:35.040 came to power, he swept the, the east coast, um, that didn't happen in Saskatchewan. Here people are

00:37:41.040 much more conservative. There's been a few polls, uh, questioning things about, uh, parents' rights

00:37:47.200 since it all started like last year and consistently, you know, 85% of people here support parents' rights

00:37:54.240 either strongly or, you know, you know, they agree with it. Uh, so the, the crowd that, um, is I'll call

00:38:04.160 it anti-parents' rights. It's actually just small and vocal here, but there's not actually a large

00:38:08.800 amount of them. Okay, good. Um, which, uh, which this, the NDP is, has left this whole harping on the,

00:38:18.240 on the trans stuff. I mean, even in the debate, uh, Carla Beck only mentioned trans twice and as soon

00:38:23.600 as she mentioned it, she moved away. And even when she issued a response after Mo talked about the

00:38:28.880 ministerial order, she didn't say trans children. She just said vulnerable kids. So she has a hard time 0.99

00:38:34.160 even saying it in her, uh, press releases when she released, uh, that and also even on the debate night.

00:38:40.880 Well, is it that the NDP is, uh, just a, maybe, uh, perhaps a bit afraid of this as an electoral

00:38:49.600 issue or is it maybe that they, are they more moderate than say the NDP in other provinces? Because I,

00:38:55.040 you know, I, I, I've read, uh, during the campaign, I think it was Nicole Sauer, um, uh, who I think was

00:39:04.160 not even referring to women, but referred to menstruating people. That's rather extreme

00:39:09.680 ideological buzzwords, uh, that we don't even talk about women now. We just talk about various

00:39:17.200 functions of biology to come up as a shorthand of things. Uh, but I don't know. Is it that the,

00:39:23.600 the Saskatchewan NDP is perhaps more, more moderate than, uh, New Democrats elsewhere in the country,

00:39:28.640 or, or is it just that they, they don't think this is a winner for them in polls?

00:39:33.280 It's not a winner for them in the polls, but I would say if you compare them to the federal NDP,

00:39:37.200 they are more conservative. Um, like for example, there, most of them are against the carbon tax.

00:39:44.080 There are a few that are still very pro carbon tax. Uh, but Carla Beck, the leader has said that

00:39:49.280 she's against the federal carbon tax. So there are, there are members of the NDP who have

00:40:00.000 views that when you say them may make you chuckle. Um, Nicole, as you mentioned, she was calling people

00:40:09.840 in the ledge this past session, like in the spring session, uh, people who menstruate and she couldn't 0.92

00:40:15.520 say the word woman. Um, and that was getting chuckles even from people up in the gallery, uh,

00:40:22.080 where the speaker would have to tell people to like calm down and not make any noise.

00:40:26.000 Uh, but it's just a gut reaction for some people. Um, and they have others who are,

00:40:35.680 they say things that offend parents, for example, another, uh, NDP MLA. Uh, she's also probably going 1.00

00:40:43.600 to win her seat again here in, uh, Regina. She said that the people concerned about parents' rights are on

00:40:50.240 the far right of the fringe. Well, that's like 85% of the province. That's a big far right fringe

00:40:58.400 group of people living here. Apparently they, that some of the things they say are just completely tone

00:41:03.200 deaf, which I said in my story, they're like, I even entitled my story, Mo momentum. And the reason

00:41:11.120 is, is that the last two days Carla Beck is doing her momentum tour, but there's no momentum. Like they're

00:41:17.280 still stuck at the same amount of seats that they were expected to win even two weeks ago,

00:41:22.320 which is somewhere between 22 and best case scenario, 28 need 31 for majority.

00:41:27.680 So even if everything's perfect, there's still three sheets short on election night.

00:41:32.960 All right, Chris, I am having just all sorts of trouble with my earpiece today. Um, uh, Chris,

00:41:37.280 thank you very much for joining us. Uh, we'll let you get back to the campaign trail.

00:41:40.640 Thank you very much. Have a great day. All right. All right. That's it for Saskatchewan. Uh,

00:41:46.880 we're going to go to our, uh, our parting shots to close things off. We'll start with you today,

00:41:51.520 Corey. Sure. Well, that was a recent Western standard story that just kind of flipped through

00:41:55.920 the scroll, but stats Canada really released those numbers on electric vehicles. There's 1.3% of the

00:42:03.440 Canadian fleet or electric vehicles, a decade of having EVs shoved down our throat, subsidized.

00:42:09.920 Everybody told that we're going to swap barely over one in a hundred of the vehicles on the road

00:42:14.960 across Canada are electric. We've got to raise the white flag on this with these ridiculous

00:42:19.840 bands on manufacturing and sailing because it's messing up the market. And what it is going to do

00:42:25.440 when this collapses, I mean, even manufacturers are backing off on EVs is make, uh, internal combustion

00:42:32.160 vehicles extremely expensive for Canadians. When the time comes that they finally realized that

00:42:36.560 that's the only viable option. So I just feel that, uh, more noise needs to be made. If we're

00:42:41.840 going to pressure Trudeau into maybe retreating on something, get off these bloody electric vehicles.

00:42:46.560 They're not going anywhere. Well, you know, the, uh, the planned ban of, uh, real vehicles,

00:42:52.480 I think that's going to get scrapped when the liberals lose power next year, uh, very likely.

00:42:56.880 But, uh, if, if for some reason it continued, I'm going to be like, uh, Cuban and just be rebuilding

00:43:02.720 my, uh, my truck for the next 50 years. So, uh, Nigel.

00:43:06.560 Well, it's, uh, talking of the end of the age, you know, Mr. Trudeau made a brave show

00:43:12.400 coming out of that, uh, caucus meeting this morning, but you know, really nothing has changed

00:43:17.840 for him. His future is still in the hands of people who don't like him.

00:43:22.240 That would be the conservatives, the bloc, and the NDP. And really anything can happen.

00:43:29.760 This, this is a story to watch.

00:43:32.720 All right. Well, my parting shot is, uh, uh, that's a bit, a good bit of a pun, a good pun.

00:43:38.560 Uh, Justin Trudeau just the other day, uh, put out an announcement reminding everyone that two years

00:43:44.800 ago he banned handguns from legal gun owners and how great that was that he banned, uh, or at least

00:43:51.520 he banned the sale of handguns, the legal sale of handguns. And that's going to do so much, uh,

00:43:56.480 against gun violence. Well, it began with the Toronto Police Union and was followed quickly

00:44:00.400 by the Surrey Police Union in British Columbia, uh, saying that's an insult to victims of gun

00:44:06.160 violence. It's an insult to law-abiding gun owners, uh, police, many of which are police officers to begin

00:44:10.800 with, uh, that your ban of handguns and sales to legal registered gun owners has done nothing to, uh,

00:44:18.880 cut down on handgun sales. And about 85% of the guns we confiscate in crime, we could trace directly

00:44:24.480 to the United States. So they told Trusted Trudeau to go stuff himself. And I think I speak on behalf

00:44:30.560 of, uh, all gun owners in Canada when we say we look forward to it being repealed in short order. 0.70

00:44:37.840 All right. That's it for the pipeline today. Uh, we want to thank you all for, uh, for being with us.

00:44:44.240 If you're not yet a member of the Western Standard, you really should be. The Western Standard is one

00:44:48.240 of an extremely small number of media left in Canada that does not take Justin Trudeau's big

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Western Standard - October 24, 2024

Trudeau fights Liberal caucus revolt

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