Who's leading Alberta's independence movement? Is there a clear leader emerging from within the constellation of 5 parties and advocacy groups that make up the Alberta Prosperity Project, the Wild Rose Party of Alberta, and the Wildrose Loyalty Coalition? And who's running for a seat in a by-election in Battle River, Alberta?
00:00:54.340erica barutz department head of applied politics and public affairs at mackamy college i refuse
00:01:01.380to learn your job title just like french because it's just like french i refuse to learn it because
00:01:09.180it's too hard so uh okay uh we've got a good show today we're going to talk about the mark carney's
00:01:17.920new old liberal cabinet. We're going to talk about an unemployed Easterner who's coming out1.00
00:01:25.700West here to get a job. Sorry, that's a little mean. That's Pierre Polyev, who's going to be
00:01:31.240running in a by-election in Battle River, Crowfoot, Alberta, the most conservative and most Alberta
00:01:38.220of conservative Albertan writings. And our first topic, who actually leads Alberta's independence
00:01:46.400movement a lot of people would like to a lot of people have stepped forward but there's no real
00:01:52.420clear voice name and face uh put to it right now uh it's a constellation of movements parties
00:02:02.040individuals uh advocacy groups legal groups there's a whole nebula a whole new constellation
00:02:09.180take your metaphor on it um we've got the alberta prosperity project which has been
00:02:15.700around for a number of years now, which just the other day unveiled its question on what they want
00:02:21.640the referendum question to be from the Citizens Initiative ballot. We've got the Independence
00:02:27.660Party of Alberta. We've got the Wild Rose Independence Party of Alberta. We've got the
00:02:32.080Wild Rose Loyalty Coalition. No, that's not a gift coupon. That is a political party in Alberta.
00:02:38.020We've got the Republican Party of Alberta, formerly known as the Buffalo Party of Alberta,
00:02:42.360the alberta advantage party and fitting in there is also the united conservative party which has
00:02:51.320both federalist and nationalist components to it um it's a bit of a hot mess cory um
00:02:59.480without getting into when i'm plugging your book too much too much you're gonna do you can a little
00:03:04.680bit um but without also getting into the whole history of this thing which goes back forever
00:03:10.120uh you know kind of set the lay of the line like it has there been a kind of clear leader or
00:03:18.680organization or party that's kind of emerged in the movement today not today no i historically
00:03:24.220there hasn't really been one since the western canada concept west fed back in the 80s that's
00:03:28.760kind of held it all in one spot with these these five parties plus i'm sure the new judean people's
00:03:34.240front will be coming out as well. They're not going anywhere. The last election, all five of
00:03:41.160them added together, even with 18% support for independence, came up with 0.8% support of the
00:03:48.260vote. But, I mean, as we know, it's white hot for the appetite for independence. People are looking
00:03:54.640for somebody to lead this and stand out. The Alberta Prosperity Project is the closest thing
00:03:59.020to it. They've been well-established, organized. They've held meetings for years around the
00:04:02.160province. They have an impressive member base, but they're not setting the world on fire right
00:04:08.700now. I think for a lot of people looking for somebody to lead this, somebody to stand out
00:04:14.260and speak for all of it. I mean, it's the advantage and disadvantage of being a decentralized movement
00:04:20.140in that it is organic, but you kind of need people to keep people on an even keel. And yeah,
00:04:25.400speaking of my own book, I wrote that a couple of years ago, but I was critical of taking the
00:04:29.620partisan approach to this and i i think with the fact that it's a referendum that we're looking at
00:04:33.720this should help people get focused focus on the referendum uh but you still need i guess some sort
00:04:40.560of driving force and while a few people are raising their hands i i don't think uh supports
00:04:46.360kind of consolidating around them at this point uh erica um i mean as we've said you know there's
00:04:54.360It's a constellation of these parties.
00:04:56.120They traditionally, with a small exception of the Western Canada concept party in a by-election in Olds-Disbury-Three Hills in 1982, have failed to break through electorally.
00:05:09.180I think there's always been, if the independents are going to move, a partisan imperative to it to get the referendum.
00:05:15.880Daniel Smith has taken that tip of that card away from those parties and saying, well, you can have your referendum without the need for a new party.
00:05:23.820you can have your referendum and stay within the big blue tent all at the same time uh kind of
00:05:30.060completely short-circuiting those guys i think to an extent but speaking of old disbury three hills
00:05:35.260and by-elections and the independence movement one is about to happen right now uh the western
00:05:42.320standard got the scoop on this tara sawyer is uh going to be appointed as the united conservative0.98
00:05:49.640party candidate in that riding uh the leader has a certain number of appointments they can make and
00:12:21.980uh it's impossible for it to not be political it's inherently political it is mega political
00:12:28.480but she's been trying to make it not partisan and there's a difference sometimes in those things
00:12:35.540um what opportunity do you see for the independence uh the explicitly independence
00:12:43.440parties that are gonna want to contest in that writing is there any opportunity for them here
00:12:48.260Because, I mean, they've got to be looking at this, praying for a repeat of the 1982 by-election in that very constituency.
00:12:54.800Yeah, there's more opportunity than anything else that could present itself for them with any other riding.
00:13:00.880This is a gift of all places, Old Stisbury Tree Hills.
00:13:03.820The difference, though, now is there is a vent for the independence-minded people.
00:13:08.860In the 80s, there was nowhere else to go.
00:13:10.580You either voted with the PCs, who were staunchly federalist, and there was no referendum on the horizon.
00:13:16.520And now independence minded people have been provided with the ability to call or have a referendum called and put it to the question, which I think is going to make it a little harder for an independence party to get steam.
00:13:29.200I mean, the others are all small and then they really don't have much for their organization.
00:13:33.840Republican Party has been jumping out, but I don't know if they've exactly been endearing themselves to people.
00:13:39.040And their messaging is very much on the 51st state thing, which sort of at least has that feel with it with a Republican name that they've adopted.
00:13:46.120So if anything, they've got a chance of high expectations and falling on their face potentially, which would set them back because this is a if they can't do well in this constituency, they can't anywhere.
00:13:58.740So if they're going to perform, this is their one and only shot.
00:14:04.200You know, when you stand in a by-election, if you fail at it, it takes any maybe perceived wind out of your sails.
00:14:12.920Which is why, you know, when I served in the legislature 2015 to 2019, the Alberta Party never contested a single by-election because it would make clear to the media that they were not a real political party.
00:17:54.740I guess I'll put the same question to you almost as I asked in the last part, Corey, is, you know, is there any opportunity for independence candidates here?
00:18:05.780The Wexit party, which was already poorly named, doubled down on bad names, changed its name to Maverick Party because there was a movie coming out.
00:18:14.300uh the party was a total flop uh and has actually been deregistered now i would have thought they
00:18:20.920would have held on to the registration for a future day when they might resurrect the fight0.59
00:18:24.460um i they probably thought all he was going to win and it wouldn't go anywhere uh so jokes on
00:18:29.300them but uh an independent candidate not independence independent candidate it's not
00:18:34.700going to stand out there uh the longest ballot committee is already promising they're going to
00:18:38.260try and uh flood the ballot with candidates as they did in carlton they'll probably have less
00:18:42.200success in a riding out there because you actually have to get out there and get signatures it's a
00:18:45.960lot harder to do um but there is no registered independence party on the federal level you know
00:18:52.400the way we have with the block indiquas things like that is there any opportunity for an1.00
00:18:57.660independence supporting candidate there in that by-election no you know there's no registered
00:19:03.340entity as you said it's unfortunate if there was ever a break that maverick you know as they hung
00:19:07.940around kind of waiting for the right circumstances was about to come it was when alienation was high
00:19:13.220and they could make the case saying look we need to go back to like the reform party roots and just
00:19:18.020have regional representation because we're throwing ourselves against the wall in the east
00:19:21.940and in that riding you know i think i don't think they could have taken it in their you know greatest
00:19:27.060dreams but they could have had a respectable showing of that segment to the population they
00:19:31.480could probably twist the knife a little bit too on saying hey this is going against the principles
00:19:34.840of local representation you know find a local candidate say this person will be there to
00:19:39.200represent you for the next four years not just dropping by now and then to cut a ribbon or ride
00:19:42.960in a parade but there's just nobody there there's no apparatus there's and and as we were kind of
00:19:48.060talking about before too there's no person of profile who could say represent independence
00:19:52.840and just run as an independent and stand out so aside from maybe Maxime Bernier is going to try
00:20:00.160and throw everything he can at it but i don't know if it's that fertile for him there uh it's
00:20:04.720just going to be a non-remarkable cakewalk for polyev to get into the cost commons uh erica is
00:20:11.300there anything remarkable about this by-election that could stand out and as i asked nigel uh
00:20:18.220what are the risks for polyev of course he's going to get asked about independence he was
00:20:21.760asked about it i think just the other day and he says well i get the frustrations and i'm gonna
00:20:26.440remove the appetite for independence by you know fighting for things that are good for the west
00:20:31.820and i mean he said what you would very much expect him to say like that you can't run for
00:20:37.320crime minister it also support the independence of a different part of the country that's
00:20:41.600contradiction in terms but uh are there any risks for polyev in a writing like this and
00:20:47.020are there any potential opportunities for these candidates or for movements yeah no to the other
00:20:53.820individuals like this is, as Nigel said, the God's country of conservative politics with 82%.
00:21:01.860He was almost actually acclaimed until the day of official filing. Damien had no contenders. So he
00:21:08.280would have been the first guy. I was out door knocking with him at Edmonton Centre and he's
00:21:11.520like, I might be the first person since like 1985 or something to be acclaimed in a federal
00:21:16.060general election. So I don't think it's worth anyone's organizing for, you know, 5% of the
00:21:23.300vote to knock him down under 80. Like, I just can't see anything. And for the people that,
00:21:29.100you know, see him maybe as a parachute candidate, who doesn't want the leader of the opposition
00:21:32.640or potentially future prime minister, at least being in your riding for a period of time?
00:21:39.200Well, the people at Carleton are all bureaucrats now. And that's why,
00:21:43.200you know, they know that they're getting fired with Pierre Polyev. The only thing I mean, again,
00:21:49.660I don't know what, if someone was running for prime minister of Canada, why they would ever say that they want to separate. Like, I think it's a non-starter. However, the interesting dynamic will be how he and the premier navigate a lot of these situations.
00:22:04.640I mean, he was very aligned with her, but on items, if separation does come to fruition, CPP versus Alberta pension plan will be on the table and all of those types of other questions that are trickled down that Pierre has already said, I don't support Alberta getting their own.
00:22:23.200And so that would be a little bit more difficult for him to navigate that when he's in the province as his seat.
00:22:30.320But I mean, those are all hypotheticals down the road too.
00:22:33.280No, I think those are good points where he was maybe able to brush them off a little more easily than he could as an Alberta representative.
00:22:41.860All right, well, let's, speaking of all of that mishmash, let's talk about the new carny, I say new in parentheses, carny liberal cabinet here.
00:22:58.120One of the major news networks was reporting that Chrystia Freeland was going to be left out.0.99
00:23:03.280I found that hard to believe because that would be seen as a declaration of war.
00:23:08.400And I guess by the standards of the Trudeau cabinet, she was not the dumbest of the ministers.
00:23:16.360Can I ask why you think that's a declaration of war?
00:23:20.000Well, when you exclude someone of that high profile, you're saying, I don't actually really want you here.
00:23:24.100Please just find a gig in the corporate sector and trigger a by-election.
00:23:28.060That way we would have been sending that message.
00:23:29.480i mean when she was minister she's been minister of finance and deputy prime minister for a long
00:23:33.480period of time here uh i i think that would have been a bit too fighty as it turns out she was in
00:23:38.680so is stephen gilbeau as minister of canadian identity and things like that so he's in charge
00:23:43.000of continuing media regulation it's a job he's had before uh it was a bit of a too hot a potato
00:23:48.280i think to keep them in environment but the the new environment minister uh was actually his
00:23:53.640parliamentary private secretary for a number of years and also did the same job for wilkinson
00:23:59.720in empr now she's the environment minister the environment minister so julie de bruisen that's
00:24:06.360the one so she knows the staff which is important she knows the different regulations they've been
00:24:11.960trying to work on this that's a very dangerous uh appointment in my view from our point of view
00:24:19.640Go ahead, Derek. No, no. You're the host.
00:24:24.440Let's tease it out a bit, Nigel. I think, I mean, speaking of declarations of war, if Carney had kept Gilbo in an environment, he would just be, he's opening the door for Alberta.
00:24:37.600he'd be such to say please go uh so i i think he he had a bit more tact than that but he did put
00:24:44.580um someone who does appear to also be an eco radical in there just not named gilbo kept gilbo
00:24:53.140in cabinet uh but potentially uh balanced it off with the environment uh the new energy minister
00:25:02.800tim hodgson uh some people have said nice things that this person is not crazy that this is a
00:25:10.120person who's not ideologically opposed to pipelines in liberal governments uh the previous
00:25:16.520three terms of the liberals the environment minister has unofficially outranked the energy
00:25:21.080minister however they both sit around the cabinet table but one a lot more heft than the other uh
00:25:26.980how hopeful are you that maybe that relationship's changed,
00:25:32.320that the energy minister is going to take a bit more prominence now
00:25:34.680and now that everyone's worried about the bad orange man of the South?
00:27:08.500He is an old friend of Mr. Carney's from the days when Mr. Carney was governor of the Bank of Canada, and Mr. Hudson was an advisor to him.
00:27:21.160They obviously think in sync, and now you have an activist environment minister, and you've got a—I find this a really—Philip Champagne is kind of a—he's sort of the fixer for a number of ministries.
00:27:37.320He'll do what he's asked to do and enjoy doing it.
00:27:41.220And then you have this absolutely unknown person, Shaftar Ali, who has had one term in Parliament, held no parliamentary posts, no committees recorded.
00:27:55.380And there he is as president of the Treasury Board.
00:28:26.300In six months' time, we're going to have a clear sense of direction,
00:28:29.980And I would like to know which of the five people I've just talked about, the prime minister and the other four, are going to be the ones who say, let's build a pipeline and let's put it here.
00:31:25.180It's still a big cabinet by Canadians, but by Canadian standards, it's, it's, it's compact.
00:31:30.280Um, but, uh, anyway, this, this position here, um, is it, is this a real thing?
00:31:37.800uh i don't know what is it or am i on the retard bus okay i think they do call it the minister of0.74
00:31:45.720ai either way that's what media is reporting it as across the board um if you had innovation tech
00:31:52.680uh all of those other buzzwords it honestly just seems like they needed a job for him and they
00:32:00.600didn't want to give him anything really at the he's at the big kids table but not at the big kids
00:32:04.600stable. So I don't know. I think it was, I don't actually have as much criticism as maybe everyone
00:32:12.400else on this. I do like the smaller government. I do like that they've put the economic portfolios
00:32:18.580at the top of the list and kind of, like you said, downplayed the DEI culture, all that stuff.
00:32:26.760The one thing I did want to point out though, is the under-representation in Western Canada.
00:32:31.500And I get that you had like low numbers, but there is significant reduction in representation.
00:32:41.400You've got the Saskatchewan MP who has that, as we learned on election night, a very large
00:32:46.200riding Buckley Boulanger will be a secretary of state and MP in Edmonton Centre Eleanor
00:32:52.760Alzweski being at the cabinet table as the Western kind of lead.
00:32:58.920But yeah, I think that one's kind of a joke.
00:33:00.960I don't know what deal he made at Evan Solomon in advance, but it's almost like they were he was kind of like, ha ha, F you as a joke to give him this portfolio.
00:33:12.540So you really anticipated where I wanted to go with this was kind of cabinet representation for the West.
00:33:18.400Canada, I think, arguably more than any other country in the Western world, has the most Byzantine cabinet appointment system.
00:33:28.040and this goes back to confederation this is not something you can blame carney or trudeau or
00:33:33.420harper or even mulrooney or the first trudeau if this goes back to confederation because canada was
00:33:38.920such a polyglot to put together um you know you had french you had english you had uh protestant
00:33:47.920and catholic that used to be a big thing um and then you had regional representation and then
00:35:46.780appear that carne is has made western outreach in his cabinet building a priority both by excluded
00:35:54.460corey hogan the liberal elected in calgary uh and by the the two in uh calgary sorry in alberta
00:36:00.460and saskatchewan giving them extremely junior kitty cabinet table positions sandbox yes you know uh
00:36:09.340it's it this business of putting together a cabinet when you have to recognize this interest
00:36:16.060in that area and this persuasion and this it it they're always going to say they picked the best
00:36:22.540people for the job but whenever they came out when they come out as mr carney did and claimed to have
00:36:31.660actually met a certain demographic target which he said we have achieved gender balance you then
00:36:39.100have to think and i i mean this in no sense to be a personal reflection on uh eleanor
00:36:48.300because i never met her i don't know that i hadn't heard of her before this
00:36:51.820um or on cory hogan but you've got to look and say when the prime minister says we achieved
00:36:58.620that target was it a question that well we've got two in alberta one man one woman we need
00:37:05.580another woman okay maybe maybe it was that simple yeah hogan's got the wrong plumbing1.00
00:37:11.420he had a quarter to fit so well you could just identify against the cabinet
00:37:20.460it's kind of sad that it comes down to that the idea that you're picking the best people
00:37:24.300for the job and then claiming to have met a certain quota you need to go through the cabinet
00:37:29.340actually and just see whether the various ways that they can be divided up fit into some kind
00:37:35.180of template of the demographic breakup of canada i haven't done that yet so i'm not accusing
00:37:40.540the government of doing it but the very fact that those questions can be raised
00:37:48.460is a weakness in the system uh it's erica you know i almost feel like there's a
00:37:55.980uh a dei and not just dei but like kind of an identity bingo card and you get points you know
00:38:02.940i got this race i got this uh religion i got that gender and i got that region i got that language
00:38:13.340and and you know you get you get points so you know like the three white guys sitting here we're
00:38:18.060worth nothing uh you're i got one you're marginally above nothing you got one point
00:38:23.900you know what this is comes back to the minority of gingers that are very1.00
00:38:27.980underrepresented in the house uh i should have two points just saying but uh two points yeah
00:38:34.500all right okay you think you're a two-pointer um i mean like look if if it wasn't clearly that
00:38:41.920they're still playing the the points bingo card here i'd say i actually i do think the regional
00:38:49.560representation of the cabinet table probably out of the point system probably makes the most sense
00:38:55.380uh religion uh you know protestant versus catholic going back to confederation makes a lot less sense
00:39:00.900language uh okay i'll give a little bit for language but region really does matter here and
00:39:07.140and on it seems that out of that the the bingo scorecard for the points you get before you're
00:39:13.780a cabinet minister uh region at least as regards the west must rank very very low on that scorecard
00:39:22.440uh in this cabinet making oh for sure if you look at atlantic canada they have five ministers and
00:39:27.720one um secretary of state like for how many seats they're they're really winning the day
00:39:34.980compared to western canada um i will argue though on the regional representation i mean
00:39:41.360we had randy boissoneau and tell me one thing that he voted for that represented western views
00:39:47.280this comes to say we got two representatives for one there so yeah yes double randy r squared um
00:39:54.040but this is the problem is like you check a box of regionalism same argument with the senate
00:39:59.460they appointed people that are never going to vote in the interest of true well to reflect
00:40:04.720albertans and so you know i do agree there should be regional representation um nigel totally took0.62
00:40:12.160my parting shot on the quality. But I'll come up with another one. I'm quick on my toes. But
00:40:18.500I was going to say, as a female, I hate that idea that I would only get a cabinet position if I was0.99
00:40:23.140Eleanor versus Corey. You've got to sit there and say, oh, did I only get it because of,
00:40:28.580to Corey's example, my parts are a certain way that gives me the advantage. That sucks. That to
00:40:36.560me is not a quality. That's that's a hand out. And so regardless of if you deserve it or not,
00:40:43.220there's always that would always be lingering in the back of my mind. So that's unfortunate. But
00:40:47.280you know, again, like you just because you're a woman doesn't mean that that's the perspective
00:40:50.820you're always leading with. So I kind of disregard the regional thing, although you want to have a
00:40:57.260voice at that table, but it doesn't mean that they're a true voice for the region in which
00:41:00.140they represent. They're just geographically there. All right. Well, see, that's what happens when you
00:41:06.020don't tell me what your parting shot is before i did tell you guys i announced it before
00:41:09.640uh did you oh yeah i did no none of you listen to me you don't listen to me no no no we didn't
00:41:15.920you're only two points you're gonna need more more points before uh before you pay attention
00:41:22.580get ready for my parting shot oh uh and you know that's it for the show we're uh out of time
00:41:29.600okay well we'll move you to uh near the back of the list uh parting shots uh cory
00:41:35.480Well, I mean, as we watched, Honda basically saying, thanks for all the subsidies, but we're not going to build any electric vehicles in Canada.
00:41:44.660Something that kind of got overshadowed, though, on the failure of trying to subsidize your way into prosperity is Trudeau's brilliant London, Ontario cricket factory, which was going to make tons and tons of bugs for us to eat.
00:42:00.740By the time they pulled the plug on it, it looks like they're $41 million in debt at that.
00:42:06.460So just as another stark example of the stupidity of federal government spending, federal government investment, or any government investment typically in business.
00:44:17.540uh west jet uh has had to pay 65 000 in damages to an employee that they fired for being unvaccinated
00:44:28.040even though that employee was working from home couldn't possibly infect anyone uh if you believe
00:44:35.320it was even effective in that um they were working from home during covid and that was not enough
00:44:40.820They did not get vaccinated, uh, and fired them 65, uh, they've now been, uh, she, this person's been awarded $65,000, uh, it's justice long delayed.
00:44:56.680Uh, but I think this person has been given 11 months of their salary or something here.
00:45:01.320um i mean covid's behind us now uh but uh you know some of these legal cases are finally
00:45:09.740making their way through the system so big businesses uh the next time everybody loses
00:45:15.640their mind with the latest witch hunt remember that some people are not going to take it laying
00:45:20.720down all right well that's it for today's pipeline uh nigel cory erica thank you very much for
00:45:29.560And thank all of you for joining us on the Western Standard Pipeline today.
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