Western Standard - Voters sent Trudeau a message but he's not listening

00:00:00.000 good evening welcome to the pipeline i'm cory morgan one of the columnists with the western

00:00:29.100 Standard, and I host the Cory Morgan Show. Derek's indisposed. He's usually in this seat,

00:00:34.720 so I get to fill in for it today, but that's fine. I've always got lots of ranting and raving in me

00:00:39.960 on a number of issues, and this is our weekly panel show. So this week, I'll start from the

00:00:45.520 end in introducing who we got in. Our news editor, Dave Naylor, is at the end of the table there.

00:00:50.720 How's it going, Dave? Good. Don't lie. He's not indisposed. He's on holiday, sitting by a lake

00:00:56.600 somewhere. The guy gets more holidays than Trudeau. I like saying indisposed because it gives that

00:01:01.400 sound as if I'm covering up with maybe he's in the washer with a gastric issue or something like

00:01:04.860 that. Yeah, it's glad to be here. Good. And in the middle, our opinion editor, Nigel Hannaford.

00:01:10.060 You know, you have just incented me to show up for every issue because I don't know how my

00:01:15.020 absence would be explained. So I'm here. Well, that's right. And I'd say we spoke of that when

00:01:20.360 Dave was in on my show earlier. That's your reserved seat in the middle. I mean, we kind

00:01:23.800 shift around and everything but that's that's the throne the hanaford throne we don't shift from that

00:01:29.640 so lots of uh fun stuff to cover i'll get some of the other things out of the way though the

00:01:35.000 the reason we're here the reason we can do these shows the reason we got so many news items on the

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00:02:10.320 rolling.

00:02:11.980 So we've got to start with, I mean, it was great.

00:02:16.000 You know, as I was saying earlier, I went to bed, you know, the other night and the Oilers had lost.

00:02:23.680 It was a, I was mixed on it.

00:02:25.160 I'm not a big hockey fan, but still, it was kind of a letdown for Canadians.

00:02:28.040 But as well, it looked like the Liberals were going to maintain that seat.

00:02:33.200 But in the morning, things had changed.

00:02:35.360 Dave, what went on in Toronto on Monday night?

00:02:37.780 Things had changed.

00:02:38.640 It was a by-election in Toronto.

00:02:40.700 Just to give you a sense of how historic this win was.

00:02:43.660 The last time the Tories won this seat, the Berlin Wall was still up.

00:02:49.100 That's a few decades ago. 0.97

00:02:51.400 We still had a mullet win.

00:02:52.640 Yeah, exactly.

00:02:54.300 So, yeah, Liberal goes down to defeat in a Toronto writing that they'd held for years.

00:03:01.300 Don Stewart won.

00:03:02.700 As you mentioned, there was 82 separate candidates, 82.

00:03:06.480 So the ballot counting was rather slow.

00:03:08.860 But, you know, towards the end, the Liberal candidate church took the lead.

00:03:14.260 And for many media outlets, that was it.

00:03:16.700 They were rejoicing and, you know, Liberals hold seat.

00:03:20.600 And so to bed they went.

00:03:25.000 But, yeah, they were in for a shock when the morning sun came up

00:03:29.240 and Don Stewart was the new MP-elect in Toronto.

00:03:33.400 So massive win.

00:03:35.120 And, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about the consequences.

00:03:37.220 But, you know, to say it's historic is accurate.

00:03:40.840 Yeah, Nigel, you know, by-elections come and go.

00:03:43.060 I mean, people like to read too much into them quite often because it's often where somebody will park a protest vote or there'll be a limited turnout or things like that.

00:03:51.740 But this was more than your typical by-election.

00:03:54.680 I mean, again, just because that seat was so traditionally safe, I mean, this is an indication of a much bigger issue when the Liberals can't hang on to that.

00:04:04.680 Well, you know, this is where you need a tourniquet to stem the bleeding, and I just

00:04:09.200 don't think they have one.

00:04:12.000 That yes, it was a by-election, and people are usually fairly quick to dismiss by-elections

00:04:17.000 as being protest votes.

00:04:19.220 But on the other hand, this was not a small by-election, like a 43% turnout.

00:04:24.920 It was a good turnout for a by-election.

00:04:26.340 It was excellent for a by-election.

00:04:27.920 It's more than we would typically have for municipal elections here in Calgary, just

00:04:32.780 to make a point.

00:04:34.560 And so when 43% of the electorate come out and tell the government, you're done, that's

00:04:41.840 historic and it's a matter of grave concern to the Prime Minister, although he doesn't

00:04:50.000 seem to be showing it.

00:04:51.320 And the Liberals threw everything they could at this riding.

00:04:55.680 The Candidate Church was a former staffer with Chrystia Freeland.

00:05:00.500 She was in the writing several times, I assume riding her bicycle over, not taking her chauffeured

00:05:05.740 car.

00:05:06.740 But they threw everything at it, and they still lost.

00:05:11.800 It was quite amazing, but, you know, as you said, the next day the Liberals got up, they

00:05:16.700 saw no evil, they heard no evil, and it looks like they planned to carry on as is.

00:05:22.140 They didn't see the writing on the wall, Nigel.

00:05:24.260 Well, yeah, they certainly have not admitted seeing the writing on the wall.

00:05:28.480 I cannot believe that Mr. Trudeau in his private moments is sort of shaking his head and thinking, well, what just happened here?

00:05:36.520 You know, he said, obviously, this was not the result we wanted.

00:05:40.740 But, you know, they gave away the where I think is their weak point in their thinking, because his reaction was, well, we must we will never stop working and fighting to make sure you have what you need.

00:05:56.760 We, the government, will make sure you, the peasant, have what you need.

00:06:03.780 And when he talks about working, he's actually talking about new programs to spend money,

00:06:09.380 which you, the peasant, will pay for. 0.90

00:06:12.360 You see that echoed in the remarks of Chrystia Freeland, who, just hours before the vote,

00:06:19.300 tried to draw the line between conservatives and liberals.

00:06:23.820 And she called conservatives cold and cruel and small, and then went off on a tangent

00:06:32.780 about collective values. Liberals have values, we have principles, okay? Values is a nice

00:06:40.140 feminine word. People like the idea of values. But you know, this country was started by people 0.80

00:06:48.220 who went out as individuals and did things you know the the man who went out on the prairies

00:06:55.820 and broke ground and cut down trees and picked rocks and then produced a crop of wheat he was

00:07:03.020 not part of a collective he was not working with the government trying to get away from

00:07:07.180 the government in all likelihood she has that idea that it all comes together at the center

00:07:14.140 and is doled out to you and that is what has been rejected in this by-election because the results

00:07:22.620 the the homeless crisis the affordability of housing crisis the inflation all of these are

00:07:32.220 a consequence of government from the center and she has she doesn't get it he doesn't get it the

00:07:39.420 The voters did get it, and they said no.

00:07:41.480 In what world do you wake up and not think, okay, maybe it's time for me to step down?

00:07:46.660 Is he so delusional that he thinks he can change it around in 18 months?

00:07:53.980 I just don't understand it.

00:07:55.620 He's not terribly politically bright, though he isn't.

00:07:58.540 I mean, if he were to step forward and think, I can still turn this around, I can fix this mess,

00:08:06.040 he'd have to show an indication of introspection, contrition, just to say, you know, some humbling.

00:08:11.980 Say, wow, okay, the voters sent us a message.

00:08:15.260 We need to reevaluate what we're doing.

00:08:18.240 I mean, it's not a case of giving up defeat to say that.

00:08:20.360 It's just to say, wow, we better start listening.

00:08:22.660 We can change some tact because this is...

00:08:25.180 And there's some easy things they can do, Corey.

00:08:27.200 They can cancel that capital gains increase.

00:08:30.380 You know, they can cut back on one of the carbon taxes.

00:08:33.080 These are things that are taking money out of the pockets of every Canadian.

00:08:37.400 They're easy solutions, but they cannot admit that they do anything wrong.

00:08:43.020 It's almost like a foreign administration.

00:08:45.260 It's like we've been conquered and we've got the party in control.

00:08:50.600 I have to say that I can't get inside Mr. Trudeau's head.

00:08:57.480 um so anything that i say about why he does what he does does is necessarily speculative

00:09:04.940 nevertheless it does appear to me that he has almost a messianic sense of mission

00:09:13.560 he believes he is just too important to a greater cause to be thrown off

00:09:21.320 by a by-election where obviously people just didn't understand and he needs to be clearer

00:09:26.940 Results, looking back over the almost nine years that he's been in office,

00:09:31.080 what do the results show?

00:09:32.800 They suggest to me that it was always his mission

00:09:35.340 to take this prosperous, well-ordered Anglo country

00:09:40.900 and following an agenda that he's never really talked about,

00:09:46.260 a hidden agenda, one might call it,

00:09:49.600 make it ashamed of its past,

00:09:51.460 strip it of any sense of national identity

00:09:57.540 and define moral excellence as group values

00:10:02.940 and living carbon-free, carbon-neutral.

00:10:06.640 So it'd be a new kind of country, post-national.

00:10:09.160 Remember that famous interview?

00:10:11.760 A post-national, and you know,

00:10:13.560 he likes the Chinese way of doing things,

00:10:15.540 and he's certainly doing what he can to bring it about. 0.99

00:10:18.160 He admires their basic dictatorship, to use his own words.

00:10:22.280 But the Liberal caucus, there's some smart people in there.

00:10:26.020 There's some principled people in there.

00:10:27.600 There's some good members of parliament in there.

00:10:29.780 You know, we like to slap at them quite often, but there are some good people in there.

00:10:34.420 How much longer, though, are they going to tow the party line and go down with this ship?

00:10:39.420 Look, the closer we get to the election, the closer they are to unemployment.

00:10:43.100 because what the by-election on Monday showed in Toronto

00:10:47.620 is that there's not a safe Liberal seat in the country.

00:10:50.880 Any Liberal seat could go down to defeat.

00:10:53.440 And, you know, when you're sitting there looking at unemployment,

00:10:56.140 you know, maybe you do start to think about the future.

00:10:59.880 There have been reports of, you know, Liberal MPs phoning media

00:11:03.980 to say that they were shocked Trudeau's still there

00:11:07.040 and, you know, he must go.

00:11:09.140 maybe the fact, Nigel, that there's not an obvious successor is in his mind

00:11:15.400 and keeping him there, you know?

00:11:18.020 Oh, I think there's a few people who think they are the obvious successors,

00:11:21.800 but, you know, any speech by Mr. Trudeau on this subject within caucus

00:11:26.500 will probably open with, look, if you are a sitting Liberal MP,

00:11:32.820 you owe your seat to me.

00:11:35.180 Now it's time for you to stand behind me.

00:11:38.220 Whether we can develop that theme and make it sound convincing, but don't forget that in 2015, the liberals had been knocked down to 34 seats.

00:11:47.820 That was the 2011 election.

00:11:49.760 34 liberals.

00:11:51.940 And it was the power of that name recognition, the Trudeau, the nice hair, the sort of the brightness, the sunny ways, the odd socks.

00:12:02.360 All of that struck a nerve, a chord, with the voting public.

00:12:07.280 I don't know why. To me, those seem like trivial things. But anyway, it worked. And as a consequence, you have more than 160 Liberal MPs in the House. So the difference between 34 and 160 is the number of Liberal MPs who owe their parliamentary pension to Justin Trudeau.

00:12:29.120 Let me ask you this. You know more about things than I do. How much of a runway does he have where it becomes point of no return, he has to stay and lead into the next election? How much time do they need to have a convention, a leadership campaign and get the new leader in?

00:12:46.060 They need a year. If he's still there at Labour Day, I think he's going to be there in the election.

00:12:51.520 So, I mean, another interesting aspect of this, too, though, was the vote left the Liberals, but it didn't go to the NDP.

00:12:59.380 They didn't look for a progressive option. In fact, the NDP lost some support in this.

00:13:05.120 And that's got to make, you know, Mr. Singh a little bit uncomfortable.

00:13:09.060 I mean, if you're not the progressive alternative to the Liberals, what indeed are you?

00:13:14.280 I think, you know, you look at what's happened in Toronto the last few months.

00:13:18.060 The crime out of control on the subway and murders and shootings, the weekly mass anti-Semitic demonstrations by the anti-Israeli groups, you know, 10 cities, just 10 cities everywhere in Toronto, the poverty, the increase in the lineups at the Toronto Food Bank, incredible stuff.

00:13:41.240 I mean, life in Toronto has decayed in the last year, and there's no doubt about it.

00:13:46.280 And I think the voters sent a message saying we're fed up with it.

00:13:50.700 Well, and that's another aspect of this particular constituency.

00:13:55.260 I'm sure it impacted this to a degree.

00:13:57.280 It's one of the highest Jewish populations in all of Toronto there.

00:14:00.720 They make up a good segment of the population.

00:14:02.600 15%, I believe.

00:14:03.520 Yeah, which is significant, especially if they're going to get up and vote.

00:14:05.980 And, you know, Jagmeet Singh certainly hasn't been sending any love towards Canada's Jewish

00:14:12.040 population and the Trudeau Liberals, I mean, with their chronic appointments of anti-Semites

00:14:16.160 to prominent government positions and their refusal to take any strong stances in this

00:14:21.660 whole Hamas-Israel conflict, it certainly must have harmed both the NDP and the Liberals

00:14:27.120 in there as well. 0.87

00:14:28.120 Yeah, I think so.

00:14:30.120 I mean, 15 percent is quite a significant voting block.

00:14:33.220 I don't think there was a 15% spread between the liberals and the conservatives.

00:14:39.740 So if that 15% had gone over to the liberals, it would still be a liberal seat.

00:14:45.020 So it was a real failure of policy there and supporting the wrong people.

00:14:50.360 By the way, I'm not in favor of support. 0.94

00:14:52.800 Not that it matters what I think, but I don't think you should just support a particular ethnic group

00:15:01.480 because they're the ones you need to support to get their votes

00:15:05.340 and that'll get you the seat.

00:15:06.580 I mean, the liberals have done tons of that

00:15:08.340 and it's got us where we are.

00:15:10.600 But I do think that in the case of the Jewish population there,

00:15:13.560 which has been harassed and bullied

00:15:15.100 and made to put up with these shocking scenes,

00:15:19.880 which are cast in support of an appalling act of murder, 0.96

00:15:26.100 rape, violence, October the 7th, you know, gosh darn it. 0.91

00:15:30.060 How can you not stand with that beleaguered population, but the Liberals didn't. 0.98

00:15:36.060 And they recognized that towards the end. I mean, it was no coincidence, a last minute move, because they've been getting pressure to have that Iranian regiment declared as a terrorist organization for years. 0.94

00:15:45.060 And they've dug their heels in, they refused to do so, refused to do so.

00:15:49.060 On the eve of the by-election, they thought, well, I'm sure their internals were shown, we are in some serious trouble here. 0.93

00:15:54.060 Well, we've got to throw a bone to the Jewish population and show that we will stand up for them. 0.59

00:15:58.060 them and suddenly they finally declared them as terrorists. Too little, too late. 0.99

00:16:02.060 Oh, it was. And it was shown for what it is, a crass political movement or option.

00:16:10.220 And the voters knew that. You know, sometimes you can fool the voters, but a lot of time you can't.

00:16:15.740 Well, there was a 26-point collapse for the Liberals in that constituency compared to last

00:16:20.060 time. So, I mean, again, there's lots of factors, but it's not looking good for them

00:16:23.260 across the country, for sure. And getting a little more into Alberta, speaking of

00:16:26.620 of an incredible blowout. You got to give the guy credit. Holy cow. I mean, we all kind of expected

00:16:32.400 Nahed Nenshi to win the NDP leadership. It was going to be a coronation, but I don't think

00:16:38.060 anybody predicted 85% support in such a wide field of candidates. The nearest, you got what,

00:16:45.540 more than 10 times the support of the second closest candidate. Boy, he's certainly got a

00:16:51.560 doesn't he oh he does i remember on our live show that day uh had a bit of a prediction battle and

00:16:58.040 i said 73 percent and uh and uh you and derek thought i was off my rocker and uh and it was

00:17:06.760 way higher i think it was 86 80 85 percent yeah he's got he's got the mandate he was looking for

00:17:12.280 it shows his massive organizational capabilities it shows what a uh a ground force he can be

00:17:20.120 in politics, and he got the job done. It wasn't even close. So now the work begins. He doesn't

00:17:29.560 have a seat, so he named an official opposition leader and a deputy. And now I'm sure there's

00:17:35.640 going to be a bit of a clear route of political staff as Naheed brings in his own people.

00:17:42.440 So it's going to take him some time to get organized and figure out the ways of the world 1.00

00:17:48.120 in the ndp world and then the you know the fun and games are beginning now he's got to try and 1.00

00:17:53.800 unite that large tent you know you you say it shows that he's got a mandate

00:17:58.520 shows something else too and that is that the character of the ndp has changed evolved if you

00:18:05.080 if you want to put it that way that used to be a party of principle not principles that we shared

00:18:13.320 around this table perhaps but you knew that these guys would rather be right and in opposition

00:18:21.240 than wrong and in power that's just the way they were they do what they could to convince

00:18:25.320 people that they were right and sometimes they they made a reasonable showing but for the

00:18:32.120 ndp membership to just throw aside all the old stages all the people who had put in their time

00:18:41.000 all established socialists, because they thought that this man would actually be able to put them

00:18:47.160 in power. Suggest to me that power, for its own sake, is what they've decided they really want.

00:18:54.520 It's a different crowd of people that are in the NDP to what they were 30 years ago.

00:18:58.280 Well, and now with Nehemiah, he's making it clear he wants to change that party substantially. And

00:19:03.000 one of the fundamental things of the NDP, and it's been their Achilles heel in Alberta,

00:19:07.720 with Notley is that they are constitutionally tied to the federal entity. I've always rubbed

00:19:15.000 their noses in it and said, you know, Rachel Notley is a branch manager for Jagmeet Singh,

00:19:19.640 because technically, if there was a real conflict, there never was, they rarely exercise it. Singh

00:19:24.680 could override an NDP Premier, as per the NDP constitution. I think they would that would only

00:19:32.680 be in a period of crisis where they would do that because it could shatter their party. 1.00

00:19:35.720 But then she's going to shatter it. Now, anyways, he's making it clear he's going to bring that to

00:19:39.400 the members. He's saying, I'll leave it to the members. But when you've just won a leadership

00:19:42.200 with 85%, he can get anything done. They're going to decouple from the federal NDP.

00:19:47.720 And that's a very substantial change to them. And the former leader, Rachel Notley, even

00:19:53.000 you know, over the weekend was speaking out against that. You know, she wants to keep it.

00:19:58.360 And Jagmeet actually came to town for the convention. And yeah, Rachel Notley thinks

00:20:04.040 it's a very bad idea new leader thinks it's a very good idea so uh you know he's gonna if he

00:20:09.480 says he's gonna leave it to the party to decide well he's got 86 000 new members uh all right

00:20:15.080 sorry i think it was 86 000 new members 60 some thousand 60 some voted so he's got tens of thousands

00:20:23.880 he's got tens of thousands of new members who will vote on whatever he says so he must be assuming

00:20:30.680 anyway. You know, there is a real issue with the two of them tied together. I think it's

00:20:36.980 not just propaganda from the UCP. There was a case, there is a case in which Kaylin Ford

00:20:44.060 was libeled by somebody, so she claims, by somebody related to the NDP. So in the scouting

00:20:53.720 gone of suits in all directions, both the provincial NDP and the federal NDP were named.

00:21:02.500 And the federal NDP got back, well, it had nothing to do with us.

00:21:05.080 It was a separate organization.

00:21:06.680 They couldn't convince the judge of that.

00:21:08.940 And so for now, I think that's getting litigated as we speak.

00:21:14.180 But for now, the judicial system says, well, I can't, if there's a distinction between

00:21:20.620 these two bodies, I can't see where it is.

00:21:22.560 So if you're suing the one, you're suing the other.

00:21:26.000 And don't forget who else the NDP is beholden to is the unions.

00:21:31.780 Alberta Federation of Labour has a seat on their board.

00:21:34.720 Former leadership candidate Gil McGowan ran, couldn't raise a 60 grand, and dropped out.

00:21:41.140 But the unions, I don't know whether they still are, Nigel, but there used to be a powerful movement within the NDP.

00:21:47.700 And when he was mayor of Calgary, Naheed Benchie really didn't get along with unions.

00:21:51.280 Well, our columnist, John Hilton O'Brien, who, to full disclosure, lobbies on behalf of private schools and homeschoolers and anybody, frankly, outside the education system, had a column in yesterday in which he argued quite strongly that the unions were going to be the biggest problem that Mr. Nenshi faced.

00:22:16.040 They were reluctant to relinquish the influence that they had.

00:22:21.260 Different set of interests to the party.

00:22:23.760 So we'll see, I guess.

00:22:25.180 But he was calling it a civil war within the NDP.

00:22:31.200 That may not be far from the truth.

00:22:34.060 We'll know very soon.

00:22:36.020 I mean, we'll see.

00:22:37.100 I guess the risk that could happen,

00:22:38.680 because this is a threat to Jagmeet Singh as well now as the central organization.

00:22:44.760 if one of your provincial parties has pulled itself out, other provincial parties might

00:22:49.180 consider doing the same. Would he accept that? Or would there potentially be now a party rift?

00:22:57.280 Even if it's a little rump, an NDP reforming on the side that's tied to the central party,

00:23:04.120 like this is going to be more problematic, I think, that some people understand and imagine.

00:23:09.720 It's even if it's a minority of the members, there's a number of them, as you said, they joined the Democratic Socialists.

00:23:16.180 They don't want to be with Nietzsche's purple.

00:23:18.800 In reality, Nietzsche's more like the Alberta Liberals used to be than NDP.

00:23:23.260 It's just he knows the only way to the top will be through that party mechanism.

00:23:27.760 So are you suggesting there might be an old new Democrat party?

00:23:32.420 I don't know.

00:23:33.600 A new old Democratic party?

00:23:35.320 Because the left isn't so inclined to splintering like the conservative parties are as well.

00:23:39.080 So I don't know if they would march off and do something like that.

00:23:41.720 But if this was a conservative thing with such a fundamental,

00:23:43.960 you could bet there'd already be a founding convention for a new party within weeks.

00:23:47.460 But it's going to be interesting to watch.

00:23:49.300 Nenshi's going to have to tread carefully.

00:23:50.720 I mean, he's got a great mandate among 60-some thousand members.

00:23:54.900 Fantastic.

00:23:55.480 But again, we've got almost 5 million Albertans he has to appeal to.

00:23:59.980 And he's never operated in party politics before.

00:24:03.120 No, can he play nicely in the room?

00:24:05.920 I mean, he's a smart man.

00:24:07.060 That's undeniable with Nenshi.

00:24:08.140 you know, to be given, and he can, but can he change himself? That's the hardest thing. And

00:24:14.040 in a party environment, that takes, he's going to have to change how he does a lot of things.

00:24:19.940 Yeah, and he's also been, over the years, a good buddy with Trudeau, right? I mean,

00:24:23.580 there was always rumors that Trudeau may appoint him to the Senate, and, you know,

00:24:27.160 whenever Trudeau came to town, they always met and had a lovey-dovey session. So I think he's

00:24:32.460 going to have to decide now what he wants, his relationship with a prime minister who's

00:24:36.800 absolutely despised in this province if he wants to go ahead and keep it chummy you know he's got

00:24:43.120 a lot of different uh avenues to go down these days i suspect that if he can just stole that

00:24:48.880 decision for another 15 16 months he won't have to make it true the other challenge just you know

00:24:56.480 just kind of stay on it a little bit for a second though is that he doesn't have a seat as you said

00:25:00.720 he appointed somebody to be the and that's kind of rare usually they'll still hang on you know

00:25:05.600 especially with summer you've got all summer you don't need somebody officially the head of the

00:25:08.960 opposition in the legislature you're that person even if you don't have a seat i don't think

00:25:15.200 anybody's willing to give him a safe one uh you know i think he presumed somebody was going to

00:25:19.200 step out of the way i always thought it was going to be cc uh he's got nowhere to go he needs that

00:25:24.960 seat but he can't withstand the humiliation if he went ran in a seat and didn't win it that's why

00:25:29.920 he won't go for left bridge west i mean it's not it's too dangerous down there yeah i mean the

00:25:34.320 Politicians give up their seat normally when they can get something in return.

00:25:38.060 And that happens when you're the governing party, right?

00:25:41.460 So if you're an MLA and you give up your seat for an NSHE expecting a patronage appointment in return,

00:25:47.400 you may be waiting a long time.

00:25:49.500 So it'll be interesting.

00:25:50.840 But as much as he's talking, any leader of a party wants a seat in the legislature as soon as reasonably possible.

00:25:58.120 I mean, people will give it a buffer.

00:25:59.260 But if he misses the entire fall session, that's going to make him look weaker.

00:26:03.260 I mean, you've got to be in there.

00:26:04.320 you know what i look forward to the debates between him and uh him and premier smith i

00:26:09.200 mean they will go at each other it'll be a hammer and tongue yeah he will um i don't know whose

00:26:16.880 seat it'll be but he can't not so at some point there's some visitors come to the office and say

00:26:24.080 really you're not seriously going to keep this seat from the leader are you you know if the

00:26:31.360 first visit doesn't do it and the second visit probably will pressures and the offers will come

00:26:36.960 up there's a lot of horse trading going on right now we aren't seeing i got a playful thought for

00:26:41.440 you can you imagine a conversation between tommy douglas and the heat nenshi it's definitely

00:26:48.240 generations apart that would baptist minister meets you know this is uh if i i think you said

00:27:00.080 to death. This isn't your grandfather's NDP. Yeah, that's for sure. CCF for that matter.

00:27:06.480 Well, we'll go back to our favorite punching bag, Justin Trudeau. He, again, you know, in hitting 0.91

00:27:13.440 things in the news for whatever reason, he got back into the graves, I guess you can say with

00:27:20.240 the air quotes, issue in Kamloops again last week. Yeah, it was really strange. I mean,

00:27:26.720 there's been nothing but reports of uh okay they're backing away from graves it's not really

00:27:31.600 graves anymore it's anomalies maybe anomalies but he trudeau again doubled down at a national

00:27:37.120 indigenous day thing where he he again called them 215 graves in in cam loops you know i think you've

00:27:44.880 called it a hoax you've gone as far as to call it until somebody digs something up i'm just going

00:27:49.440 to say it prove me wrong but i don't understand the mentality of the man where there's nothing

00:27:54.880 There isn't one ounce of scintilla, yet he doubles down again.

00:27:58.920 You know, and you recall the days of the flag flying at half-mast for all those months

00:28:03.940 and the defaced statues and the church arsons

00:28:06.680 and what that initial allegation did to this country

00:28:11.880 and to repeat it without any facts?

00:28:16.620 Just mind-blowing.

00:28:18.040 I cannot believe that he believes that there are 215 graves there.

00:28:26.960 It's possible, but I find that highly implausible,

00:28:30.820 given the amount of doubt that has been shed upon it since the story broke three years ago.

00:28:37.220 What I can believe is that he is gaslighting us in this, as in so many other things,

00:28:45.980 and just carrying it on as if it's an established fact,

00:28:51.080 thereby never having to address the,

00:28:55.840 well, why were you so sure when now you are not?

00:29:00.300 The longer you keep it up, the less you have to explain.

00:29:05.240 It's a very extreme, we see this from time to time.

00:29:08.320 Remember that when the Americans invaded Iraq

00:29:11.400 and there was a guy standing in front of the television camera

00:29:15.420 and say, oh, everything's under control.

00:29:17.360 The American tanks were going in the background.

00:29:19.540 Well, it's one of those situations

00:29:21.580 where you just keep up the show for as long as you can.

00:29:24.820 And look, I don't think any of us should say

00:29:27.740 with complete certainty that there are no graves there.

00:29:32.020 But what we can say with complete certainty

00:29:34.360 is that until somebody has a look,

00:29:39.280 finds that there is something there to answer for,

00:29:46.680 I don't think we should be saying it.

00:29:48.220 It's a tremendous calumny on the people who came before us.

00:29:51.800 If you ever read the journals that were kept by some of these nuns 0.98

00:29:57.160 where they were looking after indigenous children

00:30:02.880 and some of the conditions that they encountered when they came,

00:30:06.520 And to imagine that they then kill these children, it sort of goes beyond vicious and spiteful.

00:30:15.620 There's nothing dreadfully, dreadfully evil about that assertion.

00:30:18.540 So the burden of proof rests upon those who are making the claim.

00:30:25.860 And if Mr. Trudeau wants to continue to make the claim, then I suggest that he ensures

00:30:33.620 that the RCMP looks into the matter and finds out what the evidence is.

00:30:41.440 That's it.

00:30:42.440 I mean, my path to the point where I outright call it a hoax now, and hey, if it turns out,

00:30:48.020 if ever they dig and they do find remains, I will eat those words and apologize and again

00:30:53.460 be fully supportive of further investigation to find out what led to the death of that person

00:30:58.840 and the repatriation of those remains to the family. But over the years, I mean, when this

00:31:02.900 first came out, I was mortified like everybody else. I believe the headlines. Oh my Lord, you

00:31:06.900 know, humanity has done some pretty awful things. Look what happened over there. But then as more

00:31:12.260 and more things came out, it was just to the point of starting to look questionable. And now

00:31:17.020 at the point. It's three years, $8 million. They won't dig. This is a cover up now. I mean,

00:31:25.100 if the RCMP believed there was a crime, they would dig. If I had said, hey, I've got evidence

00:31:29.900 that there was some bodies buried in my yard in Pritis. Oh, but I don't want you to touch them. 1.00

00:31:34.220 They say, well, that's not up to you anymore. We're going in and digging a hole in that case.

00:31:37.900 We got to find out what happened. Well, actually, the RCMP was specifically

00:31:40.620 called off the case not long after the initial announcement was made. But even the

00:31:46.140 Even though they banned themselves, Chief Rosanne Casimir has since been referring to

00:31:56.000 the findings of the ground radar as anomalies and not as graves.

00:32:00.460 And so, you know, well, let's have a look at your anomaly and we'll tell you what we've

00:32:03.980 got from it.

00:32:04.980 But while they're backing off, they haven't explained what happened to the $8 million.

00:32:08.980 No.

00:32:09.980 That's an open question.

00:32:11.380 It is.

00:32:12.380 Well, and that's part of the problem.

00:32:13.380 The $8 million wasn't just for excavations.

00:32:15.260 part of it was supposed to be for research and despite what some people claiming the record

00:32:19.100 keeping was actually pretty meticulous for a lot of those schools and the other thing the band i

00:32:23.820 think some others are realizing is there was nobody reported missing like these are mystery

00:32:28.700 if they're their graves nobody knows where on earth they came from there's no families saying

00:32:32.620 they had misplaced people there are no reports of missing people where on earth did these these

00:32:39.580 alleged children come from because there's no documentation that they were in the school

00:32:43.340 despite the stories. So again, I think that's why they're softening the language. They realize,

00:32:47.820 oh, wow, we've painted ourselves in the corner. But again, it just comes back to Prime Minister

00:32:52.940 Trudeau acting as he is, he just can't back off on anything once he's drawn his line in the sand.

00:32:57.580 Apparently, Queen Elizabeth kidnapped some of them.

00:32:59.580 Oh, that lunacy, yes. There was some defrocked United Churchnut case who made that 1.00

00:33:05.820 allegation. I still get people email me now and then message about that. She took off with Philip

00:33:11.100 and 15 native children and it doesn't well it doesn't tell well we'll see again I think you

00:33:23.260 know the Prime Minister's run out of tunes to play he just can't flex anymore he just as it

00:33:28.520 gaslights and pushes there's such a simple way to end all this to a backhoe yeah and 10 minutes

00:33:34.620 and we'll have an answer, one way or the other.

00:33:39.380 It's simple.

00:33:40.280 Too many people don't want to know the answer.

00:33:42.580 Well, yeah, maybe that's the problem that we're facing right now.

00:33:45.420 If it was to be substantially proved right now

00:33:49.320 that the anomalies at Kamloops were weeping tiles from an old project

00:33:56.200 when there were no graves there,

00:33:58.200 the Prime Minister is once again revealed to be deeply, deeply wrong.

00:34:03.420 And it's not enough to say I made a mistake.

00:34:05.740 He invested a tremendous amount of political capital and personal reputation in this being true.

00:34:12.180 And that would be very, very hard for him to walk back from.

00:34:16.280 So maybe you just wanted another paid holiday to serve.

00:34:21.400 Yeah, but it's a sad state when he would put his, you know, it's not surprising,

00:34:26.080 but it's his political pride ahead of something that actually is so socially damaging

00:34:31.200 as it sits as this unsolved mystery, I guess you could say, sitting there that could be so easily

00:34:37.480 clarified one way or another. And in the cam cell hospital site in Edmonton, they were confident

00:34:45.480 they'd found 32 graves there, and they actually dug. And I think that's part of why what's happened

00:34:49.220 too, because they found nothing. By the way, the other people who you have to be aware of and feel

00:34:56.260 sorry for um or sorry about are those people who think that their relatives were murdered absolutely

00:35:04.020 i mean that's a an awful thing to imagine and to and to have somebody trying to make political

00:35:12.100 capital out of your family distress only to find later that actually everybody is accounted for

00:35:19.700 those have been used maliciously. And they are owed a huge apology too.

00:35:26.260 And you know, there was a time there was talk of putting people like Cory in jail,

00:35:31.700 residential school denialism, right? You can't deny that there's 215 bodies. Well,

00:35:37.460 yeah, I'm sorry, but you can't. And talk of that seems to have died down a little bit.

00:35:41.380 Well, yeah, because if they want to come out and charge me for calling in a hoax, fine.

00:35:45.780 but then the process of discovery would say well dig a hole you know if you're going to have me

00:35:51.540 charged for denying something then you better have some evidence to you know corey you might

00:35:55.540 be a little careful on that last point um there is such a thing as judicial notice like if you're

00:36:02.900 defending yourself you don't have to demonstrate that two plus two equals four the court knows

00:36:09.620 that two and two is four, and when they declare that they know something, and the Holocaust

00:36:15.560 narrative, for example, is one, you can't argue the facts of the Holocaust.

00:36:26.520 That can't be part of your defense. 0.51

00:36:28.300 I have a feeling that the courts now take judicial notice of this narrative.

00:36:35.780 So, you know, when you say, you know, the first defense would be go dig a grave, I'm

00:36:43.660 not sure that's the case anymore.

00:36:44.960 Well, the thing is, at the Holocaust, they had that thing, this is lacking, which is

00:36:48.080 evidence.

00:36:48.960 They had eyewitnesses, they had photo evidence, they had literal graves that were excavated,

00:36:55.180 and of course, crematoriums, and then just many, many other aspects.

00:36:59.080 But yes, I know, don't put your faith in getting a good trial on something like that.

00:37:04.060 But I don't need to expose myself to that, Jane.

00:37:05.720 I'd be pretty pissed if we had to lose the House on a court case.

00:37:09.360 But, well, there's a lot of quilts to make up for that.

00:37:11.600 That's right.

00:37:12.860 We'll see what unfolds.

00:37:14.720 Well, again, let's pivot over to ToneDeck, Deaf Politicians, and Mayor Jody Gondek in Calgary.

00:37:22.200 You know, quite often disasters can do well for a political leader's future, actually, in ways, if they manage the disaster well.

00:37:30.320 But it, Adam Gondek doesn't seem to be, you know, you remember Nenshi during the Great Floods, you know, everybody thought he did a wonderful job.

00:37:40.580 He was a super superhero and, you know, was everywhere, every site, every press conference and whatnot.

00:37:48.800 The water main break has not been Jody Gondek's finest hour.

00:37:52.900 It started as a disaster, and then when she sort of thought it might be a disaster,

00:37:57.460 then she threw her communications team under the bus.

00:38:02.020 You know, in fairness, I think she has been doing a little bit better in recent days.

00:38:06.540 But, you know, a new poll out shows it didn't give her a bump whatsoever.

00:38:09.820 And I think she went from 30% support to 26% support, you know,

00:38:16.200 cementing her place as the most unpopular mayor in Calgary history.

00:38:22.960 But, yeah, you look at other leaders and, you know, crises have made them, you know.

00:38:27.020 It goes as far as Churchill and even Nenshi in the floods.

00:38:32.920 You're saying she should have gone and bought an anorak?

00:38:37.100 It wasn't raining.

00:38:38.800 Stood out there by the hall and talked to the workers.

00:38:42.420 It wasn't raining.

00:38:43.400 she just she's she's not a communicator like men she is right men she can talk to the room he seems

00:38:49.800 relaxed uh he's never met a camera he didn't like him and and could talk to her seems to be a bit of

00:38:56.120 a a struggle for mere conduct oh it's uh there's well there's ways of uh nuancing these things in

00:39:04.040 your favor and right men she was very good at it i mean i think if i had been that would i'd be the 0.77

00:39:11.080 the last person they would ever ask, but I would suggest, well, why don't you go down

00:39:15.260 to the site with the camera crew, get a couple of guys up out of the hole and see how well

00:39:21.080 is it going?

00:39:22.080 You know, don't worry, ma'am, we're going to have this thing fixed in no time, you know,

00:39:25.640 now back to the studio.

00:39:27.900 Just personalize it more.

00:39:30.080 I think some of it is...

00:39:31.080 Sorry, you remember the great photo of after 9-11, George Bush on top of the heap of rubble

00:39:37.360 and...

00:39:38.360 No, I was actually thinking of that very thing.

00:39:40.680 And I thought, well, I won't use that as an illustration because 9-11 was kind of a...

00:39:45.340 Yeah, it's another step.

00:39:46.620 It's another much bigger level of the novel.

00:39:49.140 But it shows you your leadership on the ground and being amongst the people.

00:39:52.540 Yeah, windbreaker jacket and a megaphone, you know, standing on the rubber one.

00:39:56.420 Well, that's it.

00:39:57.140 They didn't expect him to start digging or anything.

00:39:59.580 But at least be present.

00:40:01.200 And part of it, too, I think most people aren't blaming Gondek for the rupture itself.

00:40:05.240 They realize she's only been in for three years.

00:40:07.300 you know this was beyond her control but it's the confidence in her ability to manage a disaster 0.74

00:40:14.880 when things become adverse and she hasn't made people feel more confident in her ability to keep

00:40:20.500 things running smoothly and it's had the opposite effect I think it just she just can't endear

00:40:25.520 herself to people I mean it is a popularity contest in the end and she's doesn't make you 0.98

00:40:31.680 feel warm. Could you see anybody on council doing a better job? Yeah. You know, it's a weak bunch.

00:40:39.440 Let's be honest. There's certainly not a lot of people that could handle a crisis like that.

00:40:45.640 I mean, it's not an easy skill. I mean, you want to look like you're managing and communicating

00:40:50.860 and, you know, I mean, going down to the hole and speaking to the workers can backfire too.

00:40:54.760 If it looks really contrived and shallow, you know, people will just see that even worse than

00:41:00.000 than doing nothing.

00:41:01.260 And all these emergency officials,

00:41:03.920 they've got all those cool jackets, right?

00:41:05.980 And I'm sure when you were in the Prime Minister's office,

00:41:08.340 whenever he's got a cool jacket,

00:41:11.180 and you put the mayor in the cool jacket,

00:41:13.040 and as you say, take him down there and meet with the workers

00:41:15.320 and get your flashbulbs going off,

00:41:17.580 and you look like you know what you're doing.

00:41:19.740 You look like you know you're in charge.

00:41:24.020 But far be it from us to give any helpful advice to Mayor Gondek.

00:41:28.220 No, she's doing very well on her own, without advice.

00:41:30.860 I keep shooting those toes off, Madam Mayor, and we'll see what we get in a year and a half.

00:41:37.340 All right, well, and then back to, I guess, perhaps running afoul of the government's speech laws.

00:41:44.380 Not only, you know, at risk of questioning the narrative on the aerials and residential schools,

00:41:50.840 but now you can't defend the oil field or you might step into a minefield.

00:41:55.640 What happened, Dave?

00:41:56.200 This is Bill C-59. You're not allowed to, you know, oil companies aren't allowed to defend themselves and say this is what we're doing for the environment. And, you know, we could end up being thrown in jail.

00:42:09.960 So the word they use is greenwash.

00:42:11.840 Greenwash, right. And Premier Smith has said, well, I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing. If they want to throw me in jail, they can. But, Nigel, there's already been consequences, hasn't there?

00:42:20.880 Yeah, that Pathways Alliance has removed a bunch of material from their websites

00:42:28.520 in which they were explaining what they were doing

00:42:30.780 and how it would be beneficial for the environment

00:42:33.840 and how they were trying to meet government regulations and government aspirations.

00:42:39.100 But this government, and it's the federal government that we're talking about,

00:42:42.960 does not want oil companies, energy companies, to look good.

00:42:48.200 and so they're not allowed to say what they are doing that is actually aimed at a solution

00:42:58.380 just in case people think better of them because they have been targeted as the bad guys in this

00:43:05.640 narrative and they'd better not step out of line and we're just going to have to see

00:43:11.160 how rigorous the government is going to be in this i mean the pathways alliance has already

00:43:17.980 taken some material down. What happens to us when we say, well, guess what? This company is starting

00:43:25.740 a carbon capture project over here in hopes. Are we then part of the, are we affected by this? We

00:43:32.380 don't know yet. We don't have to take legal advice. Seems to me it's just another stupid

00:43:36.180 environmental law coming out of Stephen Gilbo's department. And I don't know if the federal 0.99

00:43:42.140 lawyers are asleep but i can't see any court upholding this right and just like the the

00:43:48.520 plastic ban and just like all the other environmental stuff that gets thrown out

00:43:52.620 if this goes to court it will be thrown out i'm sure i don't have a law degree obviously or i

00:43:57.060 wouldn't be here but uh i can't see it staying and then the government will say well you know

00:44:02.800 we'll we'll go back and rework it you know hopefully by that time we've got a new prime

00:44:06.640 minister and this just goes away you know you say it's an environmental law actually i was more

00:44:11.780 thinking of it is part of that suite of information control that this government likes so much.

00:44:17.660 The online harms bill, which, as we keep saying, allows people to launch complaints based on what

00:44:25.820 a person might say, considering what he said in the past. I mean, that's an absolutely

00:44:31.220 remarkable development. It's the minority report world where you predict what people are going to 1.00

00:44:40.320 do and catch them before they do it.

00:44:42.720 Corey would be serving a life sentence pretty quickly.

00:44:45.640 Well, it's not possible countering this information that they like to frame it that way.

00:44:48.800 I mean, if an oil company was saying, hey, fertilize your lawns with crude oil, it'll

00:44:52.240 be good for them.

00:44:53.080 Okay, we can probably get some damages on these guys with it.

00:44:56.080 What they're saying is you're not allowed to defend yourself.

00:44:59.220 You're not allowed to say, hey, we've made a new technological advancement on our well

00:45:02.220 sites that reduced emissions by 25%.

00:45:04.680 It's not misinformation.

00:45:05.680 It's just saying we are having less impact on the atmosphere with our production.

00:45:12.060 And that is the sort of thing that they're saying they're not allowed to say anymore.

00:45:15.140 It's just another form of Trudeau censorship.

00:45:17.720 That's all it is, is censorship.

00:45:19.660 Which sort of kind of brings us back to really where we started when we were talking about the by-election that he's just lost.

00:45:29.120 People will forget details.

00:45:31.140 If you were to go with a microphone on the streets of Toronto St. Paul's and say, tell me three things that you don't like about the Liberals,

00:45:41.680 it probably wouldn't be very detailed, but you would very quickly learn that people don't like them.

00:45:46.780 There is a buildup.

00:45:48.780 They get known for policies that drive inflation.

00:45:53.720 They get known, but you can't actually name three policies that drove inflation,

00:45:59.880 but you know they've got something to do with it.

00:46:01.900 And that leads to the homeless. 0.53

00:46:03.700 There's all the immigration. 0.79

00:46:04.720 That's part of the homeless thing as well.

00:46:06.980 And you come to this, information control, people know,

00:46:11.420 they don't necessarily know what Bill C-11, Bill C-18, 93, the Online Harms Act,

00:46:18.860 they don't necessarily know what all these bills do.

00:46:22.940 But they know that they're actually restricting something.

00:46:26.960 They're restricting the Internet.

00:46:28.540 They're restricting free speech. 0.65

00:46:30.780 And take them with everything else.

00:46:33.660 They've had enough.

00:46:35.040 And so they vote against the liberals in a safe seat.

00:46:37.900 They can feel the cumulative trend.

00:46:39.580 Well, we've run out of time.

00:46:41.220 But yes, and that kind of lays on the right note.

00:46:42.960 The voters are smarter than people give them credit for at times, though.

00:46:46.200 And even if they aren't political dorks like us who are going to dissect the policies,

00:46:49.780 they still see them and they feel the impacts.

00:46:51.720 and it does eventually affect how they're going to do things.

00:46:55.320 Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:56.500 Dave, Nigel, well, thank you very much.

00:46:58.300 You guys have a great long weekend.

00:46:59.500 Yeah, and remember, it's Canada Day coming up.

00:47:01.860 Get out there and enjoy time with the family.

00:47:04.600 Celebrate the history of Canada and just...

00:47:08.680 Raise the flag.

00:47:09.520 Raise the flag.

00:47:10.740 Be a little proud, lighten up, and have a good time.

00:47:14.040 We can always grouse and rant and rave the week after.

00:47:17.560 So thank you, everybody.

00:47:19.000 Thank you, guys, and thank you, everybody else, for joining us.

00:47:21.200 and we'll see you again next week.

00:47:24.040 You can become a Western Standard member

00:47:25.560 for just $10 a month or $99 a year

00:47:28.220 for unlimited...

Western Standard - June 27, 2024

Voters sent Trudeau a message but he's not listening

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