Western Standard - WATCH： Alberta frontline workers unmask AHS and reveal what the public isn’t being told

00:00:00.000 Good evening, I'm Melanie Risdon with the Western Standard.

00:00:29.620 thanks for joining me tonight also joining me are an Alberta nurse we've got an Alberta physician

00:00:35.460 and an Alberta paramedic they have asked to remain anonymous as they are still employed under AHS

00:00:42.900 and are wanting to keep an anonymity so that they are there's no reprise from their from their

00:00:49.300 employer so let's let's meet our guests tonight first let's start with our Alberta nurse why

00:00:57.460 why don't you tell me as much as you can about yourself,

00:00:59.640 how long you've been a nurse,

00:01:01.600 and we'll just start there.

00:01:05.400 Okay, hi.

00:01:06.940 I have been a nurse for 10 plus years,

00:01:10.680 specifically with HS.

00:01:13.620 I work rural and I've worked an array of positions.

00:01:18.660 I have been working up until I was put on an unpaid LOA

00:01:23.660 away by Alberta Health Services for not becoming vaccinated as they would wish.

00:01:32.940 Okay, how about our Alberta paramedic? I work in a more urban rural community

00:01:42.540 and I have been for nine and a half years and I'm currently currently placed on a forced

00:01:49.660 unpaid leave of absence by Alberta Health Services for not complying

00:01:54.060 with policy 1189 immunization of workers for COVID-19.

00:02:00.700 And you know I should probably ask this at this point and we'll come back to our Alberta nurse

00:02:06.300 to find out but have you been contacted by AHS at this point to return to work with testing?

00:02:14.700 has that been offered to you um as of the new release on december 23rd i myself have not

00:02:23.020 received a new email regarding that okay and how about our alberta nurse have you

00:02:30.620 as of today yes i have you have okay and how about our alberta doctor let's uh let's introduce our

00:02:38.380 doctor hello everyone i'm a doctor that works in ahs facilities but also in a private clinic

00:02:46.140 and been doing that for over 10 years and i guess in reference to your latest question there i

00:02:52.780 initially was in non-compliance with the vaccine or mandate policy and there's been actually a lot

00:03:00.380 of back and forth and a lot of changing or twisting of um i guess we say moving the goal

00:03:07.100 post so initially uh i was told that there's rapid testing available but not for me and then

00:03:15.740 the next day this was in mid-december the next day i was told only i would be allowed to have

00:03:21.420 rapid testing only for obstetrics privileges and then two days later that was changed to

00:03:28.620 say rapid testing only for uh well actually for for all of my privileges but i was given less

00:03:34.300 than 12 hours to respond on a weekend and so because i didn't fulfill that and then an immediate

00:03:40.780 action was taken against me and so at this point i do not have privileges at ahs facilities but in

00:03:47.100 reference to the latest moving of the goal posts again i did get an email late december 27 i believe

00:03:55.660 Mentioning that rapid testing would now be available starting January 10th and that if I agree to that then the immediate action will be removed.

00:04:10.660 So none of you at this stage are back to work?

00:04:15.660 Correct, no. And I'll go on to elaborate a little bit to my doctor counterpart.

00:04:23.660 I received official notice on via email and letter on December 6th that I was being placed on unpaid leave for non-compliance.

00:04:32.020 That was the first like official documentation.

00:04:36.820 And so as of the December 13th, I was placed on unpaid leave and I was told by my management that no, you are not to be working.

00:04:45.660 You are not to be doing duties.

00:04:47.740 This is AHS's stance.

00:04:49.820 literally five hours later at 1 30 in the afternoon on Monday December 13th I

00:04:56.060 received an email offering me rapid testing and so so in the policy it's

00:05:02.480 under section 4 determining if a facility is at significant risk of

00:05:07.760 service disruption this is supposed to be done by the vice president and chief

00:05:12.200 operating officer and according to the staff directory that's Deborah Gordon I

00:05:16.820 i have not myself been in contact with her but um i have been in contact with the ahs vaccine task

00:05:23.780 force email so if anyone wants to email them it's ahsvaccinetaskforce at ahs.ca they're the only

00:05:31.540 person we have any correspondence with that is supposed to have any answers to our questions

00:05:36.580 there's no phone number to call you call hr they don't have any answers for you they're they're

00:05:42.660 telling us that they're they're just the ones fanning out the emails so it was very um sorry

00:05:48.580 i'll just one more thing it was strange that i received that email one after the deadline and two

00:05:55.300 that i know from my evaluation i myself being absent from work am not causing a quote significant

00:06:02.740 risk of service disruption to my specific uh work site because i am the only one that i am aware of

00:06:09.460 in my site that was non-compliant and we have several casuals available in our area to fill my

00:06:16.900 role. So to me, me receiving that letter did not make sense. Me receiving offer for rapid testing

00:06:24.340 did not make sense according to their criteria and I've asked them via numerous emails and never

00:06:29.780 received an answer as to why I was offered it at that time. So understanding the capacities in

00:06:36.100 where you serve so what you're saying is that that you knew that they weren't under capacity

00:06:42.420 for my specific area when in comparison at the local hospital i was told they were closing

00:06:48.260 eight to ten beds and those staff at that hospital were not offered rapid testing

00:06:55.140 so to me it was me receiving that email um it didn't match up with what they say they've been

00:07:01.860 doing and i feel like perhaps they were i was the squeaky wheel i've sent them numerous letters and

00:07:07.140 complained about this policy from the beginning um so i feel they were either trying to appease me

00:07:12.580 or just sending things out at random so now your understanding of this this is this is coming

00:07:19.220 directly down from ahs correct uh correct how about um how about things for our alberta physician

00:07:28.660 What, what are, what were things looking like in where you were serving as far as staff, as far as being understaffed?

00:07:38.920 Well, the staffing issue, it's been an issue for not just the pandemic, but, but for many years, really, it's always been a struggle to keep staff.

00:07:48.640 Um, and to, you know, like every day, the unit clerks are calling in extra people to fill in various shifts.

00:07:58.720 And sometimes those shifts go unfilled.

00:08:01.960 Uh, and so our, our hospital has actually had to close down some beds just recently because of the staffing issues, which are, have been ongoing.

00:08:13.880 However, certainly the mandate has not helped at all.

00:08:17.560 And so it is just kind of compounded one problem on top of another.

00:08:24.560 Right. And how about our Alberta nurse? Can you sort of comment on a similar situation in your workplace? 0.98

00:08:33.560 Yes, I can speak to the fact that the offers for rapid testing.

00:08:40.560 just to clarify, this is the offers that I believe AHS said went to about 250 people before they

00:08:48.160 backtracked again and offered rapid testing to everyone. 250 people were supposedly picked at

00:08:56.480 places that were in dire need. So these facilities had to have these workers and there seemed to be

00:09:04.080 varying views on that um personally for me since the first ahs policy came out i worked to immerse

00:09:15.360 myself um in social media and make sure that i was connecting with other um unvaccinated individuals

00:09:23.360 um who would like in the healthcare yeah in the healthcare industry right yeah and um it did seem

00:09:30.400 to be like they said random i would hear certain people you know very much in need of their workers

00:09:38.240 that were closing down they weren't offered rapid testing yet some other people were so it was very

00:09:44.400 odd to me um me personally i was not offered rapid testing um as one of the 250-ish people but i saw

00:09:55.360 the same thing on the current unit that i worked in that i personally was not replaced there was

00:10:02.720 no one to work for me but it was deemed okay even though we were already short-staffed so it just

00:10:10.640 it didn't seem to make sense that way now let's break this down to i think what most albertans

00:10:20.560 are concerned about. They're concerned about safety and there's a concern about our care

00:10:28.880 being readily accessible and not affected by these decisions. From what you've seen,

00:10:36.080 I mean you three have worked through the entire pandemic. I understand and I think Albertans

00:10:42.800 have, it's become very clear that the staffing issues in the province when it comes to

00:10:48.000 our health care and the facilities has been has been an issue for for many years but during this

00:10:54.800 pandemic and i mean early on when the mandates weren't in place you know people were sort of

00:11:00.480 working full steam ahead over time uh doing whatever they could to cover things but what

00:11:05.840 are your thoughts now on these decisions i mean how safe for albertans when it comes to accessing

00:11:13.120 care that is going to be uninterrupted what are your thoughts

00:11:20.400 i can chime in first here um it's open to the public on facebook the hsaa ems uh page so hsa

00:11:30.160 represent is the union that represents most of the paramedics in the province and on that page

00:11:36.000 they receive updates from paramedics in the field uh hourly daily updates of coverage throughout

00:11:41.600 the province so it's basically like a whistleblower situation on that page showing um daily updates

00:11:47.760 regarding code reds so for instance this monday there was a rolling code red for calgary and the

00:11:54.880 basically 100 kilometers surrounding area of calgary so we had ambulances coming into calgary

00:12:00.800 uh to cover then those areas being in a code red meaning there's no available ambulance to respond

00:12:07.200 to your event in that location and this is occurring has occurred for a long time in the

00:12:12.000 province but this is something that has become exacerbated by this mandate do we have an idea

00:12:17.360 how many paramedic boots were sort of taken off the ground um with the mandates do you have any

00:12:23.680 any assessment there um i don't have an exact figure offhand um but that does bring up our

00:12:31.760 other project going on which is the alberta boot project started by some local paramedics

00:12:36.720 and they have collect they have collected um boots and shoes from health care workers throughout the

00:12:42.240 province affected by the mandates and all together they collected over 800 pairs so far they're

00:12:48.160 gathering more over christmas and that accumulated 12 000 years of loyal service in the health care

00:12:56.240 in our province just just dismissed like it was nothing and uh and that number is only growing

00:13:03.760 and that proves ahs is skewing the numbers of of who is impacted by this mandate and

00:13:11.600 how it's impacting our province how about our alberta doctor uh are are albertans safe are we

00:13:20.400 are we able to access uninterrupted care right now because of this or what are your what are

00:13:25.200 you seeing? Well we certainly rely on our ambulance and paramedic colleagues quite a bit for you know

00:13:33.600 transporting patients between hospitals if needed for different procedures or different levels of

00:13:39.280 care and so at least with the EMS system being affected there's been times where we've had to

00:13:47.040 wait for ambulances for you know anywhere from four to six hours for or even longer for patients

00:13:56.480 to be sent for an appropriate test whereas in the past and and what would be basically a standard

00:14:03.440 of care would be you know an ambulance attending to the patient and taking them within one hour

00:14:10.160 so there's certainly those kinds of delays of cares but beyond this you know if hospitals are

00:14:15.840 closing beds then all of a sudden if somebody needs to be admitted or perhaps even seen there's

00:14:23.200 been some there's been some cases where emergency rooms have closed or urgent care centers have

00:14:27.360 closed overnight or for a 24-hour span and so those patients in those communities must then travel

00:14:36.160 somewhere else to get seen or if they are able to be seen in their local emergency room but then

00:14:44.560 need to be admitted to a hospital and there's no beds or the beds have been closed because of

00:14:48.640 these staffing and covet issues then patients all of a sudden need to be transferred out to

00:14:54.160 a different community that can be anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours away and

00:15:01.200 that's away from their family away from their support network surrounded by people they don't

00:15:06.240 even know and it just makes it that much more challenging to recover and to have treatment.

00:15:17.440 Now for our Alberta nurse, we were talking a little bit earlier about the discrepancies from

00:15:22.880 province to province about how things have been dealt with and handled within our medical workers

00:15:30.000 and whatnot. I know we had just reported that Quebec is actually allowing COVID-positive

00:15:37.200 workers to remain on the job as we speak. So what are your thoughts there on how things

00:15:45.840 have been handled so differently from province to province? Yeah, for sure. So the option, I guess,

00:15:53.920 for workers that are positive for COVID to continue working and take care of, from what I understand,

00:16:01.600 other COVID positive patients, so basically staying in their own realm, then begs the question of

00:16:09.120 why in Alberta here are we only testing our unvaccinated staff? The new option that was

00:16:18.000 brought to all of us unvaccinated ahs staff just before christmas um was that we could test every

00:16:27.360 48 hours so rapid test at our own expense um it would not be supplied by the hospital we would

00:16:34.240 have to go to a pharmacy and and do this rapid testing um it is not on par simply with other

00:16:42.320 provinces with what they're doing. If you look at Saskatchewan, Ontario, Quebec, they've offered

00:16:48.720 programs for their unvaccinated healthcare workers. They've capped the amount of money they would have

00:16:53.920 to pay for rapid testing, and they have the rapid test available at their work. It just,

00:17:00.720 it doesn't make sense every 48 hours for us to try and get an appointment. Healthcare in itself is

00:17:07.760 very unpredictable you are constantly being called into work on a whim your schedule is being changed

00:17:14.400 so many of us work rural where we just can't run into a pharmacy that's open all hours of the day

00:17:20.320 just to get a rapid test so this this whole option seems quite unfair also if you look in our own

00:17:27.360 province here um calgary police they also unvaccinated workers now have to test but the tests

00:17:34.960 are supplied to them. The same as Calgary city workers, they have a surplus of tests. They also

00:17:42.320 have tests supplied to them. It appears to be very unbalanced in how it's working for the healthcare

00:17:50.720 workers in Alberta and the options given to us. Well, and speaking of access to rapid testing,

00:17:58.320 I mean the province has invested in millions and millions of these tests coming in and

00:18:05.440 planning to distribute them freely to the public. What are your thoughts on the fact that

00:18:13.680 the average person can go and grab a few of these for free but yet as medical workers it's

00:18:21.440 required of you to have to pay for it yourself. Find the time as you mentioned, get into a

00:18:26.400 facility that is approved by Alberta Health. What are your thoughts there?

00:18:33.200 I think in the end it's going to affect patient care because if you need me to work somewhere

00:18:41.280 and I simply can't come into work because I cannot get a negative rapid test, who's covering me?

00:18:48.560 They stood up and said they need us back. They need all of us unvaccinated workers back in 0.94

00:18:54.480 hospital to help with the coverage um due to omicron is what they're saying and if you look

00:19:01.280 on the alberta um health services website under news releases they actually tell you when there

00:19:08.720 have temporary pauses to different places and i encourage people to go look and just see how many

00:19:14.320 temporary pauses there's been to services especially since they put people on leave

00:19:18.720 so if if you are not giving us proper rapid testing yet requiring that we do in the long run

00:19:25.760 it's going to affect patient care and that that should worry everyone that worries us because as

00:19:31.280 healthcare workers we want to take care of our patients we didn't want to leave right we just

00:19:37.040 made a choice for ourselves so we want to come back we want to help but it has to be logistic

00:19:44.240 it has to make sense well and and maybe we'll we'll talk to our our alberta paramedic um

00:19:52.480 what about job security in this i know i've spoken with quite a few different um medical

00:19:59.200 professionals and you know first responders who feel like you know this this has been abusive

00:20:06.320 um and traumatizing is some of the words that i've heard from them um and and and then to

00:20:13.440 to sort of step back into the fray of things but not have any idea what's going to happen to them

00:20:18.720 come march when when this new policy revision is reviewed what are your thoughts on on that

00:20:26.320 yeah you hit a few of the points on the head there um this has been i can speak for myself

00:20:33.840 a very emotionally traumatic experience for myself and my family um you know i had seen this coming

00:20:41.840 in maybe a year ago and just hoped and prayed it wasn't going to go here uh and it did and

00:20:48.960 and i have unfortunate i have a supportive work family and that's who i miss the most i miss them

00:20:55.680 and i miss my patients but but we are leery um the staff that have been put in this situation

00:21:03.120 everyone thinks oh you're getting they're doing you a favor they're telling you you can come back

00:21:07.600 you can get testing and we're here sitting wary and leery because we've been in an abusive

00:21:14.720 relationship with our employer um vernie you and ahs have said in the media that we are a

00:21:22.720 disappointment she that we didn't we did not do the right thing in her eyes there was always only

00:21:29.200 one decision and we were vilified and dehumanized and uh and bullied and some of my colleagues have

00:21:37.200 have been in very, very sad situations

00:21:40.740 with their colleagues and management.

00:21:43.840 So we're very worried to come back.

00:21:46.160 Why do I wanna come back into that environment

00:21:48.040 where I was not wanted and where my 10 years of experience

00:21:53.040 and we're not valued?

00:21:55.800 And now suddenly they cry for us back

00:21:59.200 because Omicron is going to be a weight

00:22:04.080 on our healthcare system.

00:22:07.200 It's a very, very hard situation, and so we have to support each other no matter what the other worker decides.

00:22:16.760 I'm here to support my colleagues to make an informed decision in what's best for them.

00:22:21.920 But people, the public need to understand why we are wary to return.

00:22:26.920 And speaking to our Alberta doctor, I'd like your stance on this as well.

00:22:33.320 mean we all have our reasoning behind our decisions for everything uh you know and and what are your

00:22:40.200 thoughts on the vaccine being sort of the end-all be-all for this and and your choice to not comply

00:22:48.040 with the policy well we've put we put all our eggs in one basket here um you know the vaccine

00:22:56.840 by some people it's described as still an experimental product and in truth it is.

00:23:04.440 Pfizer studies are still not going to be fully done for another year or two and even thinking

00:23:12.280 of now that they're recommending vaccinations in children. Those studies are based on a couple

00:23:18.680 months of data at best and there's no other product that I can think of where we would

00:23:25.080 try and get into the body of every single person breathing that has only had you know anywhere from

00:23:31.720 two months to maybe a year's worth of track record and meanwhile that seems to be the main focus and

00:23:39.160 yet trying to figure out how to treat the various aspects of covid uh at least by ahs and by the

00:23:47.800 mainstream has fallen off to the side. And so there are certainly other groups within Canada

00:23:54.680 and the States and other jurisdictions that are trying to say, okay, well, even if this vaccine

00:24:00.920 is not coming or is not as effective as we'd like, what else can we do? And for most of our

00:24:06.200 colleagues, they just go with what the government is telling them. And very few are making the effort

00:24:16.200 to try and see what else is going on around the world and what else is being effectively used

00:24:21.480 without vaccinating everybody fair enough so what sentiment are are you all feeling from those

00:24:29.560 around you that you work with who are vaccinated um maybe we'll start with our alberta nurse

00:24:35.160 So I definitely had some excellent co-workers that maybe the whole idea behind the mandates

00:24:50.440 themselves while they were vaccinated that was their personal choice they chose to get vaccinated

00:24:56.120 um they could not understand why it had to be pressured on everyone and working on our unit

00:25:06.280 already being short-staffed the thought of sending any more staff away staff that has safely worked

00:25:14.040 for the last two years um with no excellent unquestionable evidence saying that we were

00:25:23.000 going to cause a health risk to our patients just made no sense um it's been so hard the

00:25:32.920 last couple years for for everyone working in health care so many um overtime shifts

00:25:39.480 extra hours just the thought of taking anyone away you previously asked about emf staff about

00:25:46.920 the approximate number um that were gone and you know in my head i just thought does it does it

00:25:53.880 even matter how many we are we are already down ambulances if you go look at the the website

00:26:00.600 that our paramedics spoke about we we need every single one even if it was 10 50 100 150 we need

00:26:08.360 all of them so most of our co-workers or at least i can speak to mine understood that

00:26:16.920 And how about those around you that you are communicating with on a regular basis who are unvaccinated? What's the sentiment there?

00:26:24.920 Much of the paramedics said, as well, our Alberta paramedic, people are leery. It has been abusive, the relationship. It's been mentally challenging.

00:26:38.920 Having policies changed and switched, being given deadlines, you must be vaccinated by this time, and then, oh, no, actually, we're going to extend it.

00:26:48.800 It feels like a mental game against us, and it's very wearing.

00:26:55.380 So the thought of going back into that with having no concrete job security is very scary for some people, understandably.

00:27:05.960 We want to be there for our patients.

00:27:07.480 We want our careers, we've worked towards these careers, but at the same point it is in a way like going back to an abusive relationship.

00:27:17.480 Yeah, and to segue on that, like the language, so the policy actually hasn't even been updated.

00:27:24.480 If you go on the website, the policy is still the one from December 14th.

00:27:29.480 Yeah, and then the frequently asked questions says basically stay tuned, we're receiving more information and people need to realize that it's being offered as a temporary option for testing, meaning they can still put us back on leave at any time that they replace us with vaccinated or compliant staff.

00:27:52.200 they want to mitigate. We're the problem that they need to mitigate and we're the people that

00:27:57.920 they're asking to save them, you know, so it's not a sure thing. And I understand every person's

00:28:05.940 individual choice and the need for your paycheck. And I can't judge anyone or make that decision

00:28:11.960 for them. But yeah, there's concern for across the board. Now, one of the things that I've been

00:28:20.020 um made aware of from a few medical workers as well is that in order to fill some of these

00:28:26.660 positions where people have been put on leave uh they the ministry or ahs uh whoever's making

00:28:34.180 these decisions um has been offering sort of overtime and uh additional pay and um i don't

00:28:41.780 know if it's a bonus situation or or what but do any of you know have any information about

00:28:48.420 the fact that all of this is going to cost more in the end, too, because we are now going into

00:28:56.980 so much overtime and the expenditures are just growing when it comes to staffing these places.

00:29:02.820 Yeah, I can speak a little to that. So to fill these vacant shifts, for example, there's 358

00:29:10.900 vacant paramedic shifts this week alone in our province as of Monday. So to fill these,

00:29:17.700 we will put them to overtime. So people love to pick up overtime, that's great, but there's also,

00:29:23.540 especially in our hospitals, staff are being mandated to overtime depending on their collective

00:29:29.220 agreement. If they're a full-time or part-time worker, they can be mandated to take shifts

00:29:34.740 and they can be mandated to work at a different location. So this doesn't just affect us that

00:29:42.180 are on leave, this affects those who are left behind working and they're going to get burnt

00:29:46.260 out and they're already burnt out and uh and then to speak to outside workers coming in there's

00:29:52.580 there's postings online for contract lpns to be paid 65 an hour working beside an ahs lpn who's

00:30:01.300 paid 32. so i mean how does that affect morale how does that affect the workplace dynamic and and

00:30:08.900 these staff who come in and maybe aren't they aren't familiar with the local protocols the

00:30:13.060 they're not even fully certified to do all that they have to do on the floor um so then you have

00:30:17.940 the one certified rn or lpn or healthcare aid giving medication to a unit of 50 patients for

00:30:25.140 the whole day like it just it does make sense yeah i uh i've heard many many stories around

00:30:34.820 around this topic and uh you know for for the fact that taxpayers are sort of on the hook for

00:30:41.140 all of this is going to be quite challenging for our province as well. To our Alberta doctor,

00:30:48.260 any other things that you would like to share? Anything that stood out to you that

00:30:52.340 hasn't really made sense in all of this to you?

00:30:59.540 Well, where to start? There's a lot of different things that throughout the pandemic response have

00:31:07.380 been a little strange, I would say. One of the big concerns has been some of the numbers that

00:31:14.500 AHS has been producing, even in particular, I guess, in response to the vaccinations and

00:31:21.540 mandates. And when you look at their website for unvaccinated versus vaccinated, they're comparing

00:31:29.300 numbers from January 1st, 2021 until now. And so they say, oh, since January 1st,

00:31:35.940 this many unvaccinated people have been in hospital or ICU. Well, our vaccine response

00:31:42.020 didn't really get going until late spring and early summer. And so to say that this

00:31:48.740 many unvaccinated, well, you know, at the beginning of this, most of them were unvaccinated.

00:31:52.580 We were all unvaccinated, right? So that's one thing. And then the other, I want to quickly

00:31:57.620 mention just the other thing, you know, when somebody is trying to figure out their risk

00:32:02.340 for COVID and whether taking a vaccine is going to be helpful for them when we talk about

00:32:07.780 effectiveness. Well, first off, the effectiveness number we're given is a relative risk ratio,

00:32:13.380 which is not the absolute or the true risk of something. But AHS has never provided

00:32:20.260 the actual risk of getting COVID. When you're looking to get a surgery or another medication,

00:32:29.060 you want to know what your actual risk is for that condition you're trying to prevent but that's

00:32:33.700 never been given to us all we're told is positive testing rates and case numbers and and things like

00:32:39.060 that but not the actual risk for getting covid and then then you take nine you know 95 effectiveness

00:32:46.580 off of that to get what your your risk might be so you know there's been a manipulation of some

00:32:53.300 of those numbers just to to say what the government and ahs would like people to to hear right so do

00:33:03.460 you do you feel that it's to create fear to like i mean that's sort of the understanding that i'm

00:33:09.940 hearing from from a lot of people who are really diving into those numbers and trying to understand

00:33:15.620 i mean i know i i'm often looking at those numbers especially when it comes to vaccine outcome and

00:33:21.860 And when they're referencing new cases or active cases, the data seems real time.

00:33:28.820 But yes, when you're talking about hospitalizations and deaths, the data is not real time.

00:33:34.900 So it makes it very difficult to really, it's sort of comparing apples to oranges and makes

00:33:39.840 it very difficult to really get a clear picture of what we're looking at in the province.

00:33:47.580 Yeah, why it's being done like that, I don't know.

00:33:51.040 I mean, we all, you know, our own personal biases from, you know, in whatever situation, we always try and pick the numbers that are going to favor our argument, perhaps, but, but on the flip side, you know, this seems to be a continuous effort by AHS and the government and the, you know, people have raised reasonable questions about these numbers and they're just shunned away or put aside or told that they're spreading misinformation for questioning what the government is putting out there.

00:34:19.960 And that's not right. You know, if we're truly a free and democratic society and we want to follow the science, well, then let's talk about the numbers and have a discussion about it.

00:34:30.960 But let's not close the debate and say that anybody questioning what Dr. Hinshaw says is a fearmonger and conspiracy theorist.

00:34:42.960 Right. And speaking of numbers, I think it was our Alberta nurse that was going to sort

00:34:50.240 of talk about, you know, there's been, as you mentioned, there's been this sort of a

00:34:58.060 narrative, you know, there's been a certain amount of information communicated and then

00:35:03.660 a certain amount not communicated. What are your thoughts on what's happening here?

00:35:10.180 When you look at mainstream media, you can see that Alberta Health Services likes to

00:35:13.800 put out a specific number, such as 1,650 unvaccinated workers.

00:35:19.800 But if you look at the small print underneath, you can see that it says full-time and part-time

00:35:24.520 positions.

00:35:25.520 So that is the number they said of unvaccinated AHS employees that they put off on leave.

00:35:32.100 But the way that healthcare works is we have nurses in full-time and part-time positions,

00:35:38.520 well as casual employees. On our unit you have more casual employees and you do have people in

00:35:45.400 full-time and part-time positions as well as empty full-time and part-time positions. So the casuals

00:35:52.280 are the ones that fill it. So just giving one number saying 650 full-time and part-time people

00:36:00.280 is absolutely lying with numbers because nowhere should you seem to get the information from

00:36:07.240 age how many casual employees were actually put on unpaid leave of absence due to being

00:36:14.920 unvaccinated as well as an actual number of total physicians an actual number of um contracted

00:36:22.520 staff so covenant health the number of staff that are on medical leave or stress leave and on the

00:36:29.480 number of staff that actually quit or retired because of this mandate the numbers that they

00:36:35.960 are giving such as the Alberta doctor has said they really use the numbers to their advantage 0.54

00:36:43.960 and I believe that's one of the reasons why we're seeing this recall of unvaccinated

00:36:49.880 employees is because there is many more than 1650 put off work.

00:36:56.120 Yeah I've actually tried on a number of occasions to get a clear snapshot making it very

00:37:04.040 very well known that that what my intention is is to make sure that Albertans really have a

00:37:09.720 good understanding of what our health care is is you know facing and I've been told that there were

00:37:17.720 approximately 29 000 casual staff but that they were only going to be allowing those who have

00:37:24.600 been vaccinated to return but I was never given numbers as to how many those would be how many

00:37:30.840 have been vaccinated how many have not how many have not returned to work and and you know my

00:37:35.720 understanding is 29 000 employees is nearly 30 of the ahs workforce whether they're full-time or

00:37:46.120 part-time is irrelevant i think that without these these these workers no matter what their job is

00:37:53.880 care is going to be affected and i think albertans need to know that they need to understand that

00:37:59.720 they need to understand the impact of these decisions so i i too have been really struggling

00:38:05.480 to try to get to the bottom of what the the the real number is of of how many people this is

00:38:12.040 affecting yeah it's it's not just sorry sorry about that i just wanted to say it it's not just

00:38:18.920 um workers themselves or the media the unions as well have had difficulty getting information out

00:38:25.720 of Alberta Health Services. So this is a widespread problem, you know. If they have nothing to hide,

00:38:32.600 then why don't they just put out this information? Right. Yeah, and just to segue off what you're

00:38:38.360 saying, Melanie, this is more, people forget that this is more than just nurses, doctors,

00:38:44.200 and paramedics, and you know, this is janitorial staff, this is kitchen staff, this is engineers

00:38:50.440 that run a hospital i know of a urban hospital that that may lose three to four engineers that

00:38:58.920 run the entire hospital what are you going to do um so every piece of the puzzle holds like every

00:39:05.960 piece holds up a puzzle so across the board it has its impacts now i understand we had an update

00:39:15.480 uh yesterday from the province as far as new cases are concerned what are your thoughts on the new

00:39:21.080 cases well it's very interesting um that 80 of new cases are in those who are completely vaccinated

00:39:30.280 and now 72 of all active cases are in the completely vaccinated yet we the unvaccinated

00:39:36.440 uncompliant staff are the ones that have to test to return to work right if we're following this

00:39:41.960 data and that omicron is not discriminant on whether you're vaccinated or not then perhaps

00:39:48.040 i all staff should should test immediately before work right like this policy as it's being um

00:39:55.160 implemented now is is discriminatory against only the unvaccinated staff so yeah i think they will

00:40:03.080 need to keep an eye on the data because as of this interview we were not able to see the breakdown

00:40:14.280 of unvaccinated versus vaccinated so for this new policy they gave us such as our paramedic

00:40:23.000 just said how can they justify forcing us to rapid test every 48 hours if the omicron continues to

00:40:32.920 be in more vaccinated people it just doesn't make sense it should be everyone or no one right if the

00:40:39.000 risk is for everyone then everyone should be testing and to our alberta doctor what are your

00:40:46.120 thoughts on the science behind all of this yeah well i mean omicron is still very new so that's

00:40:56.680 you know the data is still coming out we're doing that but it seems like it um it's a milder

00:41:03.720 situation and from info information from south africa that you know it sounds like they're

00:41:08.840 almost done with omicron at this point and i have heard some seen some reports where it might

00:41:15.240 potentially displace delta but it's really hard to know um but i think what we've seen over the

00:41:22.120 course of the past perhaps six months or so is that the vaccinated individuals do still carry

00:41:31.320 high viral loads when they can get infected and therefore they can still spread COVID and so

00:41:39.320 these reports have come out from various countries and it doesn't seem to matter as much whether

00:41:45.800 it's a variant or not, we just know that the vaccinated do have very similar viral loads to

00:41:54.600 those that get infected that are unvaccinated. Now again, this is not everybody,

00:41:59.160 not everybody that's vaccinated is going to get COVID and not everybody that's unvaccinated is

00:42:03.560 going to get COVID. You know, we've got to take this into balance, but those that do happen to

00:42:08.760 get COVID in either group carry very similar viral loads. And so as my colleagues mentioned,

00:42:15.240 you know testing for one group versus another doesn't really make sense it should be

00:42:20.920 unfortunately we should still be testing everybody

00:42:25.480 so based on the people that you all you three surround yourselves with uh and and sort of the

00:42:31.560 sentiment that you're that you're finding in these in these social groups of uh of medical workers

00:42:39.320 are people going to go back to work are these are these medical workers who've been offered

00:42:44.120 the opportunity to go back going or are they you know what what are you hearing

00:42:51.400 there there is a lot of fear right now fear of the unknown um we we we want people and our big

00:43:03.320 argument in being unvaccinated was choice right we should have the choice to do what we feel

00:43:10.760 is right and now we're back to this you know third fourth option from alberta health services

00:43:18.120 on a way to go back to work um but this option seems to be given without the full picture we

00:43:24.200 just we don't know how long it will last i mean we don't know 100 what it will look like once we go

00:43:30.120 back not all the questions have been answered and so for a lot of people there has to be more

00:43:37.320 questions answered before they can decide and you know like um i believe my colleague paramedics

00:43:44.360 said before we we have to support each other in this because one um one choice may be right for

00:43:51.400 some someone but not right for the other person and that's really what it's what it's all about

00:43:56.920 right and that was our our big argument yeah yeah this is about this is about voluntary

00:44:04.280 informed consent and every person having the right to make that choice in the context of their life.

00:44:11.960 What is their risk evaluation in every single decision we make, whether it's a medical decision

00:44:17.800 or otherwise? And AHS seemed to pride themselves on individualistic patient care, yet all I've

00:44:27.640 seen from them is blanket policies and blanket statements about how to treat people and their

00:44:34.920 staff and if this mandate has been our way or the highway and it has been from the top down

00:44:42.360 the entire time and no one below in management has known what's going on and the public needs

00:44:48.840 to kind of acknowledge the last two extensions that have occurred have been in Verna Yu's

00:44:58.120 emails she states at the direction of the Alberta government we are making this update. So AHS is

00:45:06.120 supposed to have our Alberta population's patient care at heart what is best for our patient care

00:45:13.160 yet the government has had to step in not once but twice to force the hand of AHS to do something

00:45:20.360 to protect patient care and put patient needs first and the public should be very alarmed by

00:45:27.400 that and very concerned and I think too the government is kind of dancing on eggshells as

00:45:34.360 well and not maybe being as strong as they could. I feel like they could probably say to AHS to axe

00:45:41.400 the mandate but they they won't do that either um so yeah does ahs have the best interest at heart

00:45:48.760 that's the question we need to ask yeah it's definitely a struggle between again who's

00:45:54.440 calling the shots and uh you know who's ultimately making the decisions whether it's ahs or uh or

00:46:01.000 it's the the ministry the health ministry so i just wanted to say thank you to you three for

00:46:05.720 joining me today just giving us a snapshot of what things are going on how things are are are

00:46:12.360 progressing on you know on the side of the coin that you're dealing with on the inside of of

00:46:19.560 health care and and just to give a good idea to the public what what's happening because i think

00:46:26.520 there is definitely definitely a disconnect in the information that's being put forward so i thank

00:46:32.280 you all for coming forward and sharing what you could with me today.

00:46:37.080 Yes, thank you, Melody. Thank you for having us.

00:46:41.160 Thank you for having me and having us. If anyone wants to check out the Alberta Boot Project on

00:46:47.480 Facebook, Leaving Big Shoes to Fill, this project was set up at the Alberta Legislature

00:46:54.920 two Mondays ago and they also set up in Calgary at the Peace Bridge. Over 800 pairs of shoes,

00:47:01.160 each with a sign and a designation of the staff member and their years of service and this they're

00:47:07.240 going to be touring the province for the next uh the next month or however long this situation goes

00:47:12.760 on for and i encourage everyone to check them out if they can and really understand the human toll

00:47:18.840 the the the knowledge and the the love and the compassion that is behind each pair of shoes

00:47:24.440 so thank you i will put i will put a link for that uh on the story on the website as well so

00:47:29.720 So thank you again for joining me today.

Western Standard - December 30, 2021

WATCH： Alberta frontline workers unmask AHS and reveal what the public isn’t being told

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