Western Standard - WATCH： Calgary Lawyer discusses Canada’s ‘broken judicial system

00:00:00.000 Good morning. I'm Melanie Risden with the Western Standard. Thanks for joining me this morning. And

00:00:13.860 also joining me is James Kitchen. He is a Calgary lawyer, Alberta lawyer. You sort of serve across

00:00:20.820 the country, don't you? I do. Yeah, you do. We have the technology to do that these days. So

00:00:26.660 James is joining us today. We're going to be talking about a few things, including human

00:00:31.000 rights laws, charter laws, constitutional laws, and just having a good look at what's happening

00:00:40.180 with the mandates within our country and talk about what's happening around the world in some

00:00:47.260 places. But give me an idea of your experience. You used to work for JCCF. You're now on your own.

00:00:56.660 with your own firm. That's right. That's right. I did a lot of charter litigation at the Justice

00:01:01.880 Center for Constitutional Freedoms, which was great. A good learning experience, baptism by

00:01:07.260 fire. I got thrown into litigating a lot of really tough cases really early on in my career. So I was

00:01:12.580 very blessed that way. So I felt like it was time for me to go out on my own. So I started my own

00:01:18.140 practice on July 1st of 2021. And had been busy. Yeah, the first month was great. I only worked

00:01:27.360 normal full-time hours and then August hit and I was busy. As some people probably have known

00:01:32.260 because they've tried to get a hold of me and, you know, I've told them, look, I can't take any

00:01:35.460 more clients. I work alone. I don't have anybody else to work with yet. So there's always so many

00:01:40.700 clients I can take on. But I've done quite a bit and I try to do as much as I can for students and

00:01:45.980 employees and all the many clients i have now refresh my memory do you do union represent union

00:01:52.460 or a broad range of employees so far i have not represented any unionized employees that's been

00:02:00.500 by design um i've tried to shuffle them off to people like derek from and others um yeah poor

00:02:06.620 suckers um i just i don't like employment law um i i have gotten sucked into it a bit i had just had

00:02:12.360 a hearing in New Brunswick this morning where I had to argue that my unionized clients should 0.91

00:02:17.080 be able to come to the court to get a constitutional remedy. So I've gotten sucked into it. And I think

00:02:20.700 that's just inevitable because that's what's going on right now. Thousands of people are

00:02:24.740 left in the lurch because their unions are woke and refuse to grieve their rights violations.

00:02:29.440 And so they're left wondering, what do I do? Right. What options do I have?

00:02:33.400 Yeah. But I tend to just take regular employees who are not part of a union.

00:02:38.380 Now, you also mentioned that you are representing people who've gotten fines or tickets and things of that nature as well for, I don't know, I'm assuming mandate breaches or I think you said rallies for, yeah.

00:02:56.320 Yes, I still have a couple of clients that are facing public health tickets.

00:03:00.860 For example, I have a church in Edmonton with the Rebel actually funded by the Democracy Fund.

00:03:07.320 they've they got a series of tickets for public health infractions because they

00:03:11.940 were holding church and allowed to hold church so just had a couple of those

00:03:16.020 tickets dropped actually so I have a trial in April on that I got a couple

00:03:19.560 other businesses that have gotten public health tickets I have some businesses

00:03:23.260 that I've been advising that could potentially turn into big fights with

00:03:26.040 AHS so yeah any anything to do with public health a you know I have a couple

00:03:32.400 doctor clients. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm regularly litigating against HHS, um,

00:03:37.800 which is always interesting. So yeah, it's, there's quite a wide diversity. Um, you know,

00:03:43.320 people get ahold of my information and, and, um, you know, if it's, if it's a really tough

00:03:47.040 case that they can't, just can't get anybody else to help them with. Um, and if I can squeeze

00:03:51.620 them in, then I, I do my best. So I had reached out to you the other day on the kind of reversal

00:03:59.120 that Shell put out about their vaccine policy, their mandate for site workers to show proof

00:04:06.000 of vaccination. Now they have reversed that. And you commented on that saying you felt that that

00:04:11.440 was a very wise business decision. You said that there were sort of two things that could

00:04:17.680 be happening there. Do you want to kind of rehash that with me here? Sure.

00:04:21.760 you know it's it's interesting because if you if you can set aside all the humanity and the ethics

00:04:29.780 and the and the you know justice of this stuff and just look at it from a business sense

00:04:35.020 it just doesn't make any sense now maybe maybe being woke is a good money maker i don't know i

00:04:41.600 don't see how it is but apparently it must be um because you know a lot of these big businesses that

00:04:46.580 that aren't in in what would be a woke industry right you know you have oil companies right that's

00:04:51.320 not a woke industry. And yet they seem to be all about this big image of wokeness and this big PR

00:04:58.980 campaign. We got 100% vaccination and safety is our top priority. But I just can't see how it's

00:05:07.040 good business sense to fire dozens or scores or hundreds of employees that have been with you for

00:05:13.780 10, 20, 30 years that know what they're doing and work hard or honest people. It's usually the best

00:05:18.620 of people by the way that don't take the vaccine on conscience because these people live by

00:05:22.820 principles that's why they won't take it on principle principle people tend to make really

00:05:26.340 good employees so it's usually the best employees that you're getting rid of um exposing yourself to

00:05:31.280 all this all this liability um you know all the money wasted on on all this this testing and um

00:05:38.440 it just it just doesn't seem to make any business now then again i haven't run one of these businesses

00:05:43.100 so but it just doesn't seem to make any business sense so if i'm looking at it from a business

00:05:47.520 this sense, why keep up the charade? Why keep putting your employees through the ringer like

00:05:53.720 this? I mean, it can't be helping their productivity. You reported on the mental health

00:05:57.340 crisis and I've experienced it amongst my clients. And I read about it in the statements they give

00:06:02.780 me. So if I'm showing thinking as far as getting my employees back to work and having them work

00:06:08.920 well and having morale go up and having productivity go up and reducing the wasted expenses and all

00:06:13.620 this COVID nonsense, you know, let's just stop the charade, stop the testing, stop the mandates,

00:06:18.700 and just go back to work. Now, then it could also, this could also be in conjunction with the fact

00:06:24.500 that it is unjust, inhumane, unethical, cruel to oppress and coerce people through the threatened

00:06:34.940 loss of employment income to inject something in their bodies they don't want. That's without

00:06:43.560 it being dangerous it is dangerous but without it being dangerous it's still ethically repulsive

00:06:51.320 to put somebody under the thumb and say if you don't inject this foreign substance in your body

00:06:57.800 you're losing your job for some people that means your kids go hungry mortgage goes unpaid

00:07:05.000 you know like i have i have clients in new brunswick that's what they're facing they're

00:07:09.160 selling their house they're selling their car so that they can figure out how to live how to feed

00:07:13.720 their kids because they've been told no jab no job so you have to be an unfortunate human being

00:07:22.600 to not uh have a pain of conscience when you're when you're thinking about that that i'm firing

00:07:28.520 this person for no other reason than the fact that they have said no to injecting their body

00:07:33.560 with a foreign substance which is a perfectly reasonable position to take and that's even

00:07:36.600 before getting to the getting to the scientific fact that they don't work because obviously they

00:07:40.120 don't work so obviously they're dangerous obviously they don't work but even even putting

00:07:42.520 that aside it's still wrong uh to make somebody go through that right so um if i'm a decent human

00:07:49.960 being at some point i'm going to say enough is enough because you know my employees are suffering

00:07:56.200 and they've told me and i can't keep doing this to them and claim to be a decent human being

00:08:00.520 so i i don't i don't know if it's it has to be one or the other over at show maybe it's both

00:08:04.920 hopefully it is and and so hopefully that um they're a trendsetter with that and we can get

00:08:10.360 back to some human decency uh i'm not a touchy-feely kind of guy um i i'm a i'm a tough

00:08:15.560 litigator and you know emotion isn't my first priority but um at the same time i i i do care

00:08:22.680 about people that's why i do what i do i hate to see them suffer and be oppressed um as if as if

00:08:28.440 we're in some third world country um and that's what's going on and um it's just it's just not

00:08:33.800 okay to do that to people and we've totally lost that over the last couple years in our society

00:08:40.600 and so if we could start getting that back that'd be nice because if we don't i mean you know the

00:08:45.720 tyranny is going to continue the oppression and the coercion and the cruelty is just going to

00:08:50.040 continue we need some human decency let's talk a little bit about the tyranny uh that that we're

00:08:55.720 witnessing um what are your what are your thoughts around what you've seen unfold in this country

00:09:01.480 for the last two years? The worst civil liberties crisis in the history of the country.

00:09:07.480 It's not like we haven't had civil liberties crisis before. We've got the residential school 1.00

00:09:11.960 system. We got what happened to the Japanese during World War II. We got all kinds of things

00:09:15.560 we can look at in history. And I would say this is the worst civil liberties crisis this country's

00:09:18.680 ever experienced. And we're not handling it very well. Canada as a nation is one of the most

00:09:28.120 oppressive nations um in the first world right now uh and and throughout covet i think um many other

00:09:35.320 countries have fared much better um and i think that speaks to our culture our culture of of

00:09:40.600 embracing authoritarianism embracing big government justifying um justifying uh the means by the ends

00:09:49.640 you know very utilitarian um very collectivist very socialist very marxist um and you know this

00:09:57.560 is the practical result when you as a culture take that take that view the end result is that you 0.90

00:10:03.080 will oppress minorities you will not tolerate dissidents because that's those those are part

00:10:08.840 and parcel with an authoritarian society so right right now that's that's that's the problem is we 0.93

00:10:13.320 have these minorities these dissidents that you know the unwoke who are saying hey let's be free 0.96

00:10:17.960 let's have individual uh responsibility and rights let's not you know let's have let's have the right 0.66

00:10:22.360 to decline things in our body and the majority is saying no to hell with you if you're not going to

00:10:26.920 to toe the line, then you're a second-class citizen. And that's a culture thing. It's

00:10:31.740 manifesting itself in the courts, in our politics, but I think it goes to our culture. And I think

00:10:37.580 that's why you see this massive distinction between us and south of the border.

00:10:41.700 So growing up in Canada, I have never really felt that we were even close to going down the road

00:10:48.740 that we've gone down. I guess somehow I just didn't see that we were becoming that as a nation.

00:10:56.920 I just wouldn't have seen any indicators to feel that we were moving into that much of a social,

00:11:04.040 like what, what, what kind of pointed you in that direction?

00:11:10.320 You know, I get that a lot from my clients.

00:11:13.100 Like I'm surprised that we have moved to where we are as a country.

00:11:17.580 And so I'm not, and I, and I wasn't in 2020, but that is because of my unique experience at the

00:11:24.360 Justice Center, right? I mean, you know, yes, when I went to law school, I did. I had some

00:11:28.780 nice ideals about how free this country is and what a great place to be, you know, a lawyer who

00:11:35.100 practices public law and tries to uphold rights and freedoms. And I had these ideas and I went

00:11:40.580 to law school ideals and I had them when I left and I thought, hey, this is great. I'm going to

00:11:44.740 go work at the Justice Center and I'm going to help uphold rights and freedoms. And then I got

00:11:49.140 there and I realized, whoa, we're on the downward trend. We've been there for a while. It's just

00:11:55.040 not obvious yet. Most people just can't see it yet because it's not really in daily life yet.

00:12:00.400 And plus, you do acclimatize to tyranny, right? You can look at all kinds of historical examples

00:12:06.420 where people kind of, unfortunately, they get used to living under the tyranny, which means

00:12:10.280 they can learn to live under, which can be good. The problem is that you tend to forget, right?

00:12:14.660 I mean, ask an average Chinese person living in China whether they're free or not. 0.97

00:12:19.780 I mean, you know, the answer will probably be bizarre, right?

00:12:22.780 Because nobody alive remembers.

00:12:24.700 It's been too long now.

00:12:26.980 But at the jurisprudential level, at the level of the cases that, you know, have been decided over the last 10, 15, 20 years and were decided in the last five years while I was litigating, you could see where this was going. 0.86

00:12:42.100 You could see the circumcision of rights. 0.51

00:12:44.340 You could see them being narrowed. You could see the court broadening the scope for what governments can just easily get away with under Section 1 of the Charter.

00:12:56.040 You see the shift. And I would say, you know, really was around the year 2000.

00:13:02.020 A lot of the old good judges that did a lot of the initial interpretation and application of charter rights were no longer on the bench.

00:13:11.620 and they were replaced by, you know, more judges with a different ideology, right? And it is

00:13:18.140 ideology. It does come down to that. It is, you know, it is a myth that judges are completely

00:13:26.440 neutral or, you know, unbiased or whatever term you want to use when it comes to constitutional

00:13:34.260 rights. They use their worldviews, their paradigms, their political views to influence

00:13:39.520 those decisions. Those decisions on our charter rights and on whether or not the violation of

00:13:45.520 those has been justified, it's basically a treatise in political philosophy. And I'm sorry,

00:13:51.680 but if you're a libertarian or you're a Marxist, your political philosophies are going to look

00:13:55.600 radically different. And your understanding of what is good and right and justified are going

00:14:02.720 to look radically different, right? If you're a collectivist, then you're going to think,

00:14:08.400 think, it's not that you're a bad person or you have bad ideas. You're going to think the world

00:14:13.320 is a better place when there's a nice, big, benevolent government that has lots of power

00:14:16.880 and individuals don't have a lot of rights and the government can really direct where things go.

00:14:22.180 If you're a libertarian, you're going to think, no, no, the world's a better place

00:14:25.080 when people are more free and government is really limited. And even if there's these natural

00:14:30.440 evils that happen, we're going to let the people deal with them as best they can, even if that's

00:14:35.420 messy and leave government out of it. Because as soon as government tries to fix this mess,

00:14:39.500 they will make it 10 times worse. You know, roughly what a libertarian believes. You know,

00:14:44.500 so if you look at judges like Major and Yacobushi and these guys from, and you go back to Justice

00:14:51.380 Rand, that's 50s and 60s. But the first two guys I mentioned were 80s and 90s. I think they view,

00:14:57.900 well, I mean, I read their decisions and I conclude that they view the world in a more

00:15:01.560 libertarian way not in a marxist way and their decisions are different than decisions that you

00:15:08.200 might get from justice abella for example who you know obviously um you know values freedom less um

00:15:15.480 and and and so of course this is all very high level and philosophical and unattainable for the

00:15:20.760 average person and so we get all these decisions prior to colvin that are you know shrinking free

00:15:25.000 speech really almost eliminating freedom of religion especially to the trinity western case

00:15:30.280 and but it's not really manifesting in daily life yet so except for the you know the law nerds and

00:15:36.840 the litigation the constitutional litigators and those few people paying attention to it what does

00:15:40.980 it matter right right for example do average canadians give a hoot about who's on our supreme

00:15:47.600 court do they know anything about the process are they even aware when a new supreme court

00:15:52.120 justice is appointed no they're not why is that because they don't get it why do the americans

00:15:57.980 pretty much light their hair on fire every time a new supreme court justice has to be appointed

00:16:02.700 because they know that those nine promoted lawyers in washington have way more control

00:16:09.260 in the long run over their daily lives and their daily liberties than the president of the time

00:16:14.620 they know that they get that at a deep cultural level the majority of americans get that majority

00:16:19.900 of canadians don't and we're paying the price for it now right because for for for 20 years

00:16:26.380 we have not cared when we elect our politicians we don't we don't give we don't give a wink of

00:16:32.220 thought to who they might appoint on the bench right and and the power that those people on

00:16:36.220 the bench are going to have right and the ability of those people on the bench to change not just

00:16:41.100 our law but our our whole constitutional order they have the ability to do that for better or

00:16:45.820 for worse right so so does the american supreme court right and our our liberties in the long run

00:16:53.260 maybe not in a six-month period but over over over over two decades in the long run

00:17:00.140 those those people those appointed lawyers i'm using that language intentionally justice

00:17:06.700 scalia used to talk that way um you know to remind people that look there's nothing particularly

00:17:11.660 special about about judges they're really just promoted lawyers okay um you know those those

00:17:19.420 people are going to have way more impact on whether or not our society remains a free one

00:17:26.300 than any passing politician of the day. And that's, you know, we're reaping that ignorance now,

00:17:34.740 you know, because I think a lot of people thought, okay, well, yes, the governments have gone off the

00:17:41.180 rails. They're acting as petty tyrants, but this is a country ruled by the rule of law.

00:17:47.360 We have a constitution, and the courts will bring us out of this.

00:17:51.260 You know, the voice of reason will bring us, the third branch of government will function, will bring us out of this.

00:17:57.000 It hasn't.

00:17:58.000 It's failed.

00:17:59.040 It hasn't brought us out.

00:17:59.860 Two years later, we're still living in this madness.

00:18:02.140 We're still living under tyranny because the only institution that could effectively bring us out is the courts, and they don't want to, right?

00:18:14.320 And I'm not, that's the thing.

00:18:15.660 It's not about this.

00:18:16.780 We're not like a third world nation in the sense that there's no impropriety at the courts.

00:18:21.240 There's no there's no bribes.

00:18:22.360 This isn't Russia.

00:18:22.980 That's not that's not what it is.

00:18:24.380 It's the fact that the judges on the bench interpret charter rights, interpret Section

00:18:32.280 One of the charter, take judicial notice.

00:18:35.460 They do these things in a certain way that that that fits with with how they view the

00:18:40.280 law and how they view the world and what they think is best.

00:18:43.600 Right.

00:18:43.820 These are not bad people doing bad things.

00:18:46.040 These are people with particular views that are doing what they think is best.

00:18:51.260 You know, Justice Germain thought it was best to make Pastor Pulaski engage in compelled speech, right?

00:18:59.860 Libertarian Canadians say, well, no, that sounds like North Korea. 0.97

00:19:02.920 And they're right.

00:19:03.540 Well, and compelled speech means that he just explain it a little bit so people understand what compelled speech is.

00:19:11.700 Health speech is basically taking the words of somebody else and shoving them into your mouth and making you speak them.

00:19:16.460 So what did he have to speak and when and where? What was that looking like?

00:19:22.900 My understanding of that ruling was that prior to criticizing AHS or criticizing the COVID narrative or saying anything that was counter-narrative,

00:19:30.620 he had to first preface it with the government's narrative, right?

00:19:35.400 He had to speak the government's words that were not his own.

00:19:38.120 Now, what those words were specifically, I don't know.

00:19:39.760 But that's the idea, is that he had to say something that wasn't his own thoughts or his own words, that was pro-government before he could criticize the government.

00:19:50.680 Wow.

00:19:50.840 Now, fortunately, that's a rare example of the rule of law working and of our courts working in some sense, you know, when that was appealed to the Court of Appeal in Alberta, and an injunction was sought to set that aside while the main appeal went ahead, a Court of Appeal justice stayed that part of Justice Germain's decision.

00:20:15.660 okay so good right that's a rare example of something actually um you know of of a success

00:20:23.020 uh you went on you know civil liberties versus versus covid tyranny uh that's you know one of

00:20:28.060 maybe three successes we've had in the last two years so i'm happy about that but that's that

00:20:32.540 that should not be an exception that should be the rule that but that's been very much the exception

00:20:37.020 and i know a lot of average regular canadians a lot of my clients are very confused and distressed

00:20:42.140 by this. They make comments just like you said. I thought I was growing up in a free country.

00:20:46.420 Actually, I have a lot of immigrants too. I moved here to escape precisely the tyranny

00:20:51.340 that you're all bringing in. And I'm very angry about that because that's not fair.

00:20:56.280 I came here to get away from this. I've been here 20 years. I've built a life here. I built

00:20:59.880 a business here. And now it looks just like the country I've led. And that should really

00:21:05.300 be telling for people. That should mean a little more. If people are into this whole racism

00:21:09.660 nonsense that maybe that means a little more you know they get tired of all these white canadians

00:21:13.820 saying oh you know i thought we lived in a free country this is what i grew up in well i got a 0.93

00:21:16.860 lot of brown canadians who came here because it was free and they're pretty mad about that 1.00

00:21:21.980 and they have every right to be um but that's that's that's where we're going and we got here 1.00

00:21:28.700 in a way that is just difficult to grasp and difficult to see before it's too late

00:21:33.180 um you know but that's why we uh between our political system and our judicial system we

00:21:37.980 We can't get out of this mess because our political system will never get us out of 0.64

00:21:42.440 it.

00:21:43.620 You know, and let's face it, the majority of voters support these authoritarian policies.

00:21:50.180 So politically, we can't get out of it.

00:21:51.480 It's just not going to happen.

00:21:52.540 Right.

00:21:53.500 Sadly.

00:21:54.520 I mean, I think the federal election is indicative of that.

00:21:56.720 I mean, 5% voted for Bernier.

00:21:58.720 It's just, you know, a lot of people I know are like, how is that possible?

00:22:02.820 You know, everybody I know in my rural neck of the woods voted for Bernier.

00:22:06.360 so assuming there's no election fraud um but i think that's just it's just the reality right

00:22:11.420 i mean you go to you go to toronto and vancouver and what's everybody voting for you know sing

00:22:16.360 the sing the tyrant so um and so our only hope is judicially and judicially we can't get out of it

00:22:23.260 because you know look judges are a reflection of lawyers lawyers are a reflection of the culture

00:22:27.900 uh reflection of the populace and you know the average canadian is just you know doesn't doesn't

00:22:34.740 regard authoritarianism as bad, doesn't regard collectivism as bad. And that just gets into

00:22:39.980 the thought process on what is justifiable under Section 1, what is the scope of these

00:22:46.280 rights, et cetera. And here we are.

00:22:51.240 So when you were talking about the composition of the Canadian bench, you're saying the majority

00:22:58.680 of them are liberal-leaning, and this is going to, I guess, not serve those who value freedom.

00:23:09.800 So when you say that, when you say value freedom, over what? What's the opposite? For those

00:23:17.080 that don't value freedom, they value, I don't think they value tyranny, but what replaces

00:23:24.080 it?

00:23:25.080 Right. Well, they would call it safety, security.

00:23:27.420 social responsibility. Yeah. Collectivism. Again, it's not that they view themselves as tyrants or

00:23:35.320 that they want to act what we might think is bad. They just simply, they have different values,

00:23:41.860 right? They value safety, security, collectivism, the greater good, the public good,

00:23:49.220 public interest, blah, blah, blah. Over individual. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I mean,

00:23:54.340 It's the old battle of ideas between, you know, the collectivist ideas that underlie communism and the individualistic ideas that underlie, you know, capitalism and the free market and personal responsibility, et cetera, et cetera, right?

00:24:12.480 And, you know, Canadians embraced this in the 60s and 70s when they embraced Tommy Douglas's idea of public health care.

00:24:17.940 Worst idea ever, right?

00:24:19.600 And if I had have been there, I would have been one of those few crazy libertarians that would have said, yeah, yeah, you'll be regretting this 40 years from now, right?

00:24:26.500 Would this mess be as bad if we did not have public health care, right?

00:24:31.040 But most Canadians just, whoa, because they think public health care is great, right?

00:24:36.040 And they think the Americans are just cruel to each other because they don't, you know, they don't have –

00:24:40.460 Take care of each other.

00:24:40.940 They don't take care of each other, right?

00:24:42.680 And the Americans are like, what?

00:24:44.200 You know, yeah, well, that's the thing, right?

00:24:46.280 You can only have freedom with responsibility.

00:24:48.460 with responsibility comes risk right if you you you you can't have your cake and eat it too if

00:24:53.740 you want to be free you have to take responsibility and take risks right but if in and if you don't

00:24:59.260 want to take responsibility if you don't want to take risks you'll have to give up your freedom

00:25:05.100 and that a lot of canadians have made that trade thinking hey this feels good socialism always

00:25:10.060 feels good right i mean ask any venezuelan 20 years ago right they it felt good it sounded good

00:25:16.300 i mean only good people would do this and there's this there's this delayed effect and it's it's

00:25:23.420 i think it's difficult to understand it's it's you know very philosophical and kind of you know

00:25:28.220 out there in the ether of ideas it doesn't seem concrete and um and then all of a sudden somehow

00:25:34.700 in a way that most people can't comprehend or see you end up eating your dogs or in our case we end

00:25:39.740 up you know not being able to to go to church or go to a restaurant if we haven't injected our

00:25:44.060 our bodies or whatever, right? Whatever the dystopia looks like, we end up there in a way

00:25:49.980 that's difficult to see and comprehend and really pin down. Well, you know, it's interesting because

00:25:58.500 a new poll just came out, actually, and I thought this was interesting. So this was a poll of 1,500

00:26:07.600 participants, roughly over, just a little over 1,500, says 27% of respondents say it would be

00:26:15.740 okay to jail the unvaccinated for up to five days. So that's, you know, that's a quarter of

00:26:22.680 the people polled. But 27% of respondents would be okay for an unvaccinated person to be put in 0.66

00:26:29.100 jail. I mean, I'm trying to logically think through what the charge would be. What would 0.97

00:26:33.840 the charge be? Like, I mean, is there even, like, I can't even, I don't know that I can even

00:26:38.940 justify that in my head for what the crime is. The crime is not obeying. It's not obeying the

00:26:48.040 government. It's not toeing the line. It's not living for others, right? That altruistic

00:26:53.440 collectivist idea, right? Anne Rand gets into this a lot. Any libertarian nerds listening will know

00:26:59.200 who an rand is you know like the collectivist idea is you don't live for yourself you live for

00:27:04.000 others and if you live for yourself you're selfish and selfish is bad right okay at like an emotional

00:27:09.640 philosophical level that's what that's what it comes down that's how canadians think right

00:27:13.200 but it's a small it's a small percent i mean 27 it's definitely the minority who believe this now

00:27:19.080 yeah but this is an extreme belief what you just said jail time yes that is extreme broaden that

00:27:24.720 out to something less extreme, like, you know, should we keep people out of restaurants? Well,

00:27:29.300 then you're going to get into a majority of Canadians who believe that. I'm sorry.

00:27:34.680 Historically, socially, that's a big deal that people believe that. Okay. Even setting aside

00:27:40.740 the science, I mean, obviously you have to have, you have your head in the sand to think that

00:27:43.900 that's scientifically logical, right? Because the vaccines don't stop transmission and infection

00:27:48.020 and that really wasn't that hard to figure that out. We all know that now, unless you really get

00:27:51.400 your head in the sand. But it wasn't that hard to see later. I mean, I always joke, you know,

00:27:54.500 the difference between conspiracy theories and truth is three months. And we've seen a lot of

00:27:58.320 that. But that's, I mean, that's a big deal historically. Things that, you know, at first

00:28:06.560 blush, oh, that's fairly benign. Just keep people out of restaurants. Well, there's a particular

00:28:12.340 country where that was how it started for a particular group of people, six million of which

00:28:17.860 were murdered that's how it started because as any historian knows you don't you don't go from

00:28:26.540 relative freedom to murderous tyranny in one fell swoop you know unless it's you know violent

00:28:33.700 overtake um if it's if it's happening um within a nation and not from outside you don't get there

00:28:39.560 in one fell swoop you don't it's it's the boiling the frog right you don't get there all at once

00:28:45.340 because if you did, there would be riots in the street, right? How did we go from keeping those

00:28:51.620 people out of theaters and restaurants to bulldozing their dead bodies into pits and camps?

00:28:57.820 It took a few years and it took a lot of steps and it took a lot of propaganda to demonize

00:29:04.800 and otherize these people, right? And to get what used to be decent, normal thinking people

00:29:12.840 to eventually come around to, yeah, yeah, we can keep them out of restaurants.

00:29:16.340 Yeah, yeah, we can jail them.

00:29:17.840 Yeah, yeah, we can segregate them.

00:29:20.780 Yeah, yeah, we can fire them all.

00:29:24.060 And then it becomes the kind of slippery slope.

00:29:27.720 It is.

00:29:28.200 Of course, the slippery slope is a real thing.

00:29:30.780 It's not always happening, but it's a real thing.

00:29:34.680 And we're on that.

00:29:36.860 And I get people asking me all the time for my candid assessment.

00:29:40.640 How far are we on that slope?

00:29:42.080 And, you know, how likely are we to stop?

00:29:43.660 And should I flee the country?

00:29:44.840 I get that question a lot.

00:29:45.580 Should I flee the country?

00:29:46.420 Oh, I've had a lot of people have that conversation as well.

00:29:49.900 That's a pretty desperate thing to be asking.

00:29:51.860 I would agree.

00:29:52.960 Like, it's like, you know, that was the conversation that people were having in the 1930s.

00:29:57.420 Should we flee the country?

00:29:59.760 Yeah.

00:30:00.560 If these are your circumstances, if you're never going to take this thing and you got

00:30:04.000 kids and yeah, you're not crazy to be thinking about.

00:30:08.280 And I do.

00:30:08.740 I know a lot of people that have fled the country. 1.00

00:30:10.820 And I use that word on purpose.

00:30:12.280 They don't want to go.

00:30:13.360 Family here, businesses here, their life is rooted here.

00:30:16.420 They are fleeing to that beacon of freedom

00:30:20.020 that has been for a quarter of a millennia

00:30:21.860 to get away from not just the current tyranny,

00:30:25.660 but what they see coming as potentially taking my kids away,

00:30:30.380 restricting my freedom to the point

00:30:31.620 where I can't even leave my house.

00:30:33.100 Possible prison time.

00:30:34.340 Possible prison time.

00:30:36.180 Yeah, they're looking at this and rationally and saying,

00:30:38.740 well everybody it's madness now and why should i think the madness is going to end and madness just

00:30:43.780 keeps getting worse right you know it's just as much madness to put somebody in jail as to keep

00:30:48.580 them out of a restaurant the only difference is the is the severity of the practical impact right

00:30:53.140 one one thing can bleed into the other pretty quick if you're if there's no logic or decent

00:30:57.380 or human decency or sanity that that that's that's reigning there now there's a lot of things

00:31:03.700 happening in the world right now, you know, sort of many extremes, I think. We just reported on

00:31:10.500 the fact that the UK has announced they're lifting all of their mandates. They're lifting

00:31:15.940 the mask mandate, they're lifting the vaccination mandate. And basically, you know, it was sort of

00:31:22.900 quoted that they are not going to criminalize people anymore for, you know, not wearing a mask

00:31:32.980 and and things like that so so you see these kinds of things happening in the uk there's other uh

00:31:38.820 european countries that are following suit as well and then you've got canada with just a week a week 0.97

00:31:45.540 or two ago where we announced that we're going to be taxing um the unvaccinated in quebec right it 0.84

00:31:51.940 it's it's such a huge cavernous difference between the things that we're seeing happening 0.55

00:32:00.340 around the world with this. So I understand where you're coming from with Canada being one of the

00:32:05.140 most impressive at the moment. But what you're seeing around the world, are we seeing an

00:32:13.060 unraveling? Are we seeing sort of a returning to looking at the evidence and saying, okay,

00:32:24.580 whether anyone wants to admit you know we we had it wrong or we we responded wrongly but just to

00:32:31.800 change course are you hopeful that this is I mean let's talk about you know let's throw shell

00:32:38.660 reversing their mandate in that which I think some people are hopeful that that could be a trend

00:32:44.000 where are you pessimistic are you optimistic where are you on the spectrum of watching all

00:32:51.160 this unfold well i try to consider myself i do consider myself a realist i try to be realistic

00:32:57.880 i know most people consider me a pessimist a lot of people are very rah-rah hope hope we're gonna

00:33:02.360 you know we're gonna get through this it's gonna turn around um i have a lot of clients and people

00:33:06.840 tell me man you're you're pretty dark about this um but i i don't see any cause for hope in canada

00:33:14.680 Now, I do around the world. Yes. And that's good. And hey, hopefully that either means that people can can go to that or that that maybe will eventually have an effect here.

00:33:26.140 But as far as as far as as any any reason to hope that we can internally change here, I just don't see it.

00:33:34.340 Our institutions are all, I would say, ideologically corrupt.

00:33:39.300 And so far as they've they've embraced an ideology of authoritarianism and collectivism.

00:33:44.680 All of our universities, all of our government bodies, all of our, you know, a lot of our big non-profit, they've just embraced wokeism.

00:33:54.560 And the woke thing to do is to parrot the narrative and crush any dissent.

00:34:00.720 So I just see very, very, very few examples of anybody in any kind of important position of power or influence speaking up.

00:34:13.740 And I think most of them fully support it.

00:34:16.320 And maybe there's a small group that don't support it, but they aren't courageous enough to put their neck on the line.

00:34:22.080 Obviously, there's the few rare examples.

00:34:24.820 There's the politicians like Bernier and Hillier, and there's the odd institutional leader.

00:34:30.060 But there's so few and so far between.

00:34:32.220 They're so far outnumbered.

00:34:35.560 I just don't.

00:34:36.480 you know you can have all these these regular rural ontarioans and rural albertans and and

00:34:42.320 rural people living in western bc that that you know have their head on straight and and and and

00:34:48.160 think properly about this and support freedom but unfortunately they're not going to really have a 0.53

00:34:53.680 big impact again we saw that in the last federal election unless we get at the institutional level

00:34:58.720 we get some people deciding to stand up and stand for truth and justice and freedom

00:35:03.280 how do we get out of this right unless the courts do something less unless enough politicians do

00:35:10.020 something unless enough universities do something unless unless enough let's let's go to the lawyers

00:35:15.800 how many lawyers and law firms are are are you know advocating for freedom and advocating for

00:35:23.000 getting rid of the covid tyranny and and and you know how many are what do you see very very very

00:35:30.480 few. And it's not just that there's very, very few doing what I'm doing. And then there's a

00:35:35.660 whole bunch that are passive about it, neutral and passive, because I used to think they were.

00:35:40.820 What I've seen the last few months is that there's a lot of lawyers, especially the more

00:35:46.920 influential, important ones, a lot of big law firms that are actively pushing this. They're

00:35:52.840 actively telling their clients, go ahead, do this. We got you covered. The law is going to change in

00:35:57.680 favor we're going to make it happen right fire these people you have to have these policies

00:36:02.320 you you need to do this um the law firms are doing it amongst themselves right um

00:36:11.760 law firms all across well i know i know in calgary because that's that's where i'm talking

00:36:15.120 to paralegals especially but all across the country law firms are firing their assistants

00:36:18.640 and paralegals who won't take the shot not because of science or safety but because this is the

00:36:25.280 firm's policy how are high water i got paralegals that have been paralegals for 18 years 28 years

00:36:29.840 calling me like my manager's partner told me i'm done i'm done just like that i've been here i've

00:36:35.040 been here my entire career you know i'm i'm i'm a i'm a great worker and that's it and it's just

00:36:39.760 i've asked them for reasons and studies and supports and none of it it's just nope this

00:36:44.320 is we're gonna have 100 vaccination right it's it again it's about it's about the ideology

00:36:49.920 and the image of being able to say,

00:36:52.820 we're 100% vaccination.

00:36:54.380 Why?

00:36:54.680 Because of safety.

00:36:56.780 Really?

00:36:57.340 Can you explain that side of it?

00:36:58.560 No, but that's the way it is.

00:37:01.300 I mean, this is a problem, right?

00:37:03.300 Because these are lawyers.

00:37:05.240 Well, and that's what I want to talk about for a second.

00:37:07.780 I mean, we're talking about the burden of proof.

00:37:12.080 Is there not a requirement that these decisions need to be proved?

00:37:18.280 And where are we at with that?

00:37:19.780 why why has this not um you know why have they not had to bring forward a burden of proof where

00:37:27.600 well you know what you know what i mean like i one of the one of the examples i use with people

00:37:34.780 is you know imagine a situation where you where you have a store that's being looted

00:37:39.660 you have a hundred men that are looting the store and you have you have 10 police officers who are

00:37:44.500 standing there thinking can we can we do something no we can't they don't number us 10 to 1

00:37:49.420 So the looting continues, right? In that scenario, there's no rule of law for that moment, for that 20 minutes that the looting happens, right? Because everybody's doing it all at once and the law can't keep up. Again, this is even assuming that the law wants to and would catch up. It can't.

00:38:06.420 So right now, you have private and public bodies that are getting away with whatever they want in the name of COVID.

00:38:15.320 The rule of law is completely broken down when it comes to the area of civil liberties and COVID, right?

00:38:19.660 Whether it's in the employment context or at universities or governments, they move so fast, they do it all at once, and the law can't, even if it wants to, it can't keep up, right?

00:38:30.700 By the time you finally get something filed that starts to move it, it's four months later and, you know, all this damage has been done, all these things have happened and you can't properly rectify it, right?

00:38:42.520 So that's what's happening right now is practically speaking, people are getting away with what would have been prior to COVID patently unlawful.

00:38:52.280 It may end up being unlawful or may not end up being unlawful, right?

00:38:56.260 I think the law, because judges ultimately mold the law, they can bend the law to accommodate COVID if they want to.

00:39:04.140 And that's what I've seen for two years.

00:39:05.700 So if that continues, then we're going to see a lot of law change instead of COVID policies changing because of what the law was prior to COVID, which is unfortunate.

00:39:17.700 But that's kind of how our system works as a common law system.

00:39:20.320 It changes with time to hopefully improve as society changes.

00:39:28.540 So I think right now, practically speaking, everybody's getting away with it because the law can't keep up.

00:39:32.600 It's like the 10 officers that can't keep up with the 100 looters.

00:39:35.740 That's why everybody, I mean, all these unpaid leaves, it's all unlawful constructive termination, right?

00:39:40.540 All these government mandates, they're all gross violations of the charter that, in my opinion, are obviously unjustified.

00:39:46.580 But it takes, again, even if the law wants to, it takes years to catch up with this stuff.

00:39:50.360 So you're going to get away with it practically in the short run.

00:39:52.280 And then there's the fact that by the time lawyers like me want to file all this stuff

00:39:56.420 to catch up with it, the law can, again, the judges can just change the law to accommodate

00:40:02.800 COVID instead of striking down the COVID policies to accommodate the law, which is really the

00:40:09.240 way it should be.

00:40:10.520 And when you have the force or the weight of 95% of the legal profession,

00:40:16.740 behind changing the law to accommodate covid um yeah i don't blame them for thinking they're

00:40:21.620 going to get away with it all these universities that are kicking out all these students all these

00:40:24.900 all these employers firing all these people yeah i don't blame them for believing the lawyers when

00:40:30.340 their lawyers say to them you'll get away with this we'll be able we'll be able to handle this

00:40:34.900 of course because first of all they have a number of people like me ten to one

00:40:38.420 um and and and they got deeper pockets because because their clients are the ones with more money

00:40:43.060 um but but then there's the fact of hey i mean we look at the courts and we say well clearly the

00:40:47.140 courts are on side with with government with the covet narrative with the mandates uh every

00:40:53.060 everything we've seen from all the courts all across the country is you know good job government

00:40:56.340 keep going that's that's all we see if i'm a lawyer on the other side yeah i think yeah

00:41:02.500 we're gonna win this the law will change we'll make a change that's how it works so anyways all

00:41:08.820 this to say i this is these are some of the reasons why i don't see any cause for internal hope

00:41:14.020 in canada maybe you know if the whole world embraces freedom again the weight of that could

00:41:18.820 could could crush in in a good way um but but internally no i see i see no i see i see decades

00:41:26.260 of of more tyranny right oh well that's um depressing i'm sure why i'm sure it was for

00:41:35.140 the eastern europeans you know when they were looking at this in the in the 1950s and 60s i

00:41:40.180 mean they signed up 40 years of it a lot of them died never saw it what about the international

00:41:45.220 courts what about you know like the nuremberg trials what about those bodies that have intervened

00:41:53.060 in the past well the past was different i mean look at the united nations look at what it what

00:42:01.940 you know it's supposed to be and what it started out as right i mean it's it's it's more a force

00:42:08.020 for evil and injustice than it is good now it didn't start out that way things things corrupt 0.74

00:42:14.180 over time um you know the the slow march through the institution the the the the marxists with

00:42:19.140 their with their authoritarian collectivist ideas are never going to go away they're always going

00:42:22.420 to be there and they're always going to be infiltrating and those ideas are are they both

00:42:27.220 feel good and sound good to those who you know are are gullible but but but you know do want to try

00:42:32.740 and make the world a better place but are gullible but what ideas actually do um and then there's the

00:42:36.980 whole power dynamic i haven't i haven't got into that is the fact is power is like a drug and and

00:42:43.860 you you you get a few shots of it you become like a heroin addict right i mean i was i was there in

00:42:49.860 in the beginning when ahs first started doing this they weren't power hungry uh tyrants in the

00:42:57.800 beginning they were doing what they thought was best they were just trying to help they they i

00:43:02.700 think a lot of them really thought this is just going to be temporary they didn't oppress people

00:43:07.940 the way they do now they didn't there was there was there was a there was a marked change in tone

00:43:13.700 they weren't running around just exercising their power for the heck of it they were they were just

00:43:19.180 trying to manage a crisis that's how it started that's how it always starts but then you know

00:43:27.040 they felt they they felt the drug the power and i've seen it i've i've watched it for two years

00:43:33.740 because i was there in the beginning when it started and and that power has has acted like

00:43:40.280 a drug with a lot of these people as it does with anybody we're all susceptible to it right some of

00:43:45.620 us maybe a little a little better at it than others but we're use token i think tolkien got

00:43:52.280 this really well in his writings you know he talks about those nine the nine ring rights right

00:43:57.760 you know and nine rings of power were given to men who above all others desire power

00:44:03.000 like he bang on and capturing humanity and capturing you know the the the universal human

00:44:09.600 advice of desiring power. And this is why people who are aware of history, they say all the time,

00:44:18.180 you can't give power to government expected to get it back willingly. You just won't, right?

00:44:23.460 That's basic human nature. That's basic history, right? Here we are. Whether it's AHS, whether it's

00:44:29.580 Kenny, whether it's Trudeau, whether it's whatever, if you give power to these people,

00:44:34.960 you can't expect them to just give it back most of them are not socrates or philosopher kings

00:44:42.760 they're not going to willingly easy give it up of course not right it feels too good you're like a

00:44:51.240 heroin addict so here we are how do we get it back you're not going to get it back just by asking

00:44:57.300 Do you not think or believe that, you know, sort of the idea of the information that's coming up, people are starting to see the truth in the sense of, you know, these vaccines did not stop transmission.

00:45:14.940 So really, at the end of the day, we can all catch, we can all carry, we can all spread.

00:45:19.360 Are you hopeful that sort of this, I guess, the morphing of the narrative with the general population might change people's mentality towards, you know, even like one of the other statistics here, two thirds of Canadians say they are in favor of mandated vaccines.

00:45:47.780 So the majority of the of the people pulled in this poll said they were in favor of mandating vaccines.

00:45:55.540 But I mean, what I'm getting at is if if it's fully proven that you are still susceptible to catching, carrying, spreading, then, you know, do you not hope that that kind of information and that being sort of played out in society now?

00:46:13.660 I mean, if you look, the majority of cases right now are in the vaccinated population.

00:46:20.660 You know, being in the vaccinated population, still having to mask, still having to pay

00:46:26.060 for tests to be able to travel, you know, still sort of being penalized.

00:46:30.720 Do you not think or hope that at some point, even the vaccinated group, even the people

00:46:37.620 that are, you know, the two thirds might feel differently?

00:46:43.060 might change their mind might be convinced i hope for it and it's possible but i don't expect it

00:46:50.000 i have no reason to to expect it you're not seeing it you're not okay no you know the odd person here

00:46:57.740 or there of course but that that's increasing the the population of those who are against this from

00:47:04.100 six to six percent to seven percent that's just not going to cut it it's a numbers game it's just

00:47:09.340 not going to cut it. You got to get some sort of threshold of a significant minority of people

00:47:15.280 before the scales really tip. I don't see that. And I think, again, that goes back to the cultural

00:47:22.360 aspect, right? In the States, they're able to hang on to their freedom because there's still 40,

00:47:27.100 50, maybe even 60% of the population that have this freedom is just ingrained culturally into

00:47:33.080 them, right? Well, I think it's mixed up with patriotism too, which is like a concept foreign

00:47:37.160 to Canadians, maybe even foreign to me as a Canadian. Unfortunately, I am a Canadian and

00:47:42.640 patriotism is completely a foreign concept to me. I don't even understand it. Liking my country,

00:47:49.220 that doesn't even, you know, even when the country was likable, I didn't really particularly like it,

00:47:53.040 you know, but at least it was likable. It was a free, decent place. So yeah, I think

00:47:59.380 you're inherent in your in your question is the presumption that that that reason is prioritized

00:48:08.700 by most people it's not they prioritize pleasure and emotions what feels good what sounds good

00:48:18.140 but I can't imagine it feels good to do what you were told and still be suffering

00:48:24.900 you know, still being penalized, right? Still being forced into restrictions that they too

00:48:33.980 have to live by. Yeah, if they view it that way, and that would be the reasonable,

00:48:38.820 intelligent way to view it. But that's mixed up with all the fear that the propaganda has

00:48:46.080 stirred up in them and the desire for security and the desire for less responsibility. I want

00:48:53.360 I want the government to be responsible for this, right?

00:48:55.660 I just want to get my CERB paycheck.

00:48:57.040 I don't want to work.

00:48:57.800 I don't want to be responsible.

00:48:58.920 I don't want to take risks, financial, health, physical, emotional.

00:49:03.320 I don't want to take risks.

00:49:04.540 I want no risk, no responsibility.

00:49:06.740 The government can have all that.

00:49:07.960 I just want what feels good and what's pleasurable.

00:49:11.100 And I'm sorry, that's ingrained in Canadian culture, right?

00:49:14.900 We tend to be more risk adverse, more responsibility adverse,

00:49:20.820 and and a little more lazy than than other places in the world and the practical result of that is

00:49:27.760 is we will we will more easily you know try to try to shirk some of that off to the government

00:49:31.840 um because hey that's that's you know that feels good in the moment right that that gives us what

00:49:37.400 we want in the moment right i mean a lot of people a lot of canadians are like guys i'll

00:49:41.700 sit home a quick syrup check yeah right and the americans are like what's the matter with you why

00:49:48.700 would you do that right don't you see how you're you're you're becoming dependent on the state the

00:49:52.700 kings are like what are you talking about right at a cultural level now again i'm not this is a

00:49:57.260 generalization do do do do rural albertans feel this way no a whole lot of them don't but are

00:50:02.620 they representative of the rest of the country i'm sorry they're not not representative of the east

00:50:06.620 coast let me tell you that's where i'm from yeah i've been albert in alberta six years but i hail

00:50:10.620 from the east coast no very different they're all government dependency right i'll just work six

00:50:15.820 months of the year and the other six months i'll sit home and collect my ei sounds good

00:50:20.780 right government dependency we've been doing that for 20 years too look where it leads us

00:50:25.740 right right we're not responsible for our health the government is we won't take risks for our

00:50:29.980 health the government can take all those risks we we you know we'll just we'll just collect ei

00:50:34.620 and the government will pay for all of our health benefits and this this sounds good and feels good

00:50:38.380 right and unfortunately it usually takes 20 or 40 years for it to catch up and that's that's what

00:50:42.940 it's taken for us right tommy douglas's mistake has taken 40 years to catch up with us

00:50:47.420 well in a dramatic sense i mean i think it's been catching up for a while but in a dramatic sense

00:50:51.100 it's catching up with us if if the government wasn't wasn't in control of your health which

00:50:54.860 it never should be could it could it could they really have done as much damage as they've done

00:50:58.860 the last two years i don't think so right well before we wrapped up wrap up um give me an idea

00:51:06.060 of uh some of the things that you have coming up what are you what are you working on anything you

00:51:09.980 can shed a little light on um or well um you know i'm going to have some some civil suits against

00:51:21.820 some employers for for firing their employees um assuming they don't all settle um i'm gonna i have

00:51:29.420 a human rights complaint in ontario against the university of guelph um i'm gonna have other human

00:51:35.580 rights complaints against other universities um there's a long there's a long list a long list

00:51:43.500 totally understandable uh anything that you suspect you're going to have a snapshot of

00:51:49.580 understanding whether it's going for or against you anything um that soon or are we are we still

00:51:56.140 looking a ways out i'm definitely in it for the long game um i'm not you know i'm not busting

00:52:02.860 really fast on any of my particular cases i explained to my clients you know there isn't a

00:52:06.780 whole lot of hope of of winning but if it is um we have to take the long game you know you could

00:52:12.780 take the short game approach in the first six months um which a lot of us hardly anybody did

00:52:17.660 unfortunately we kind of let it gain its momentum um and then we and then we went after it and just

00:52:22.300 completely fell flat on our face and i so i think now the only way to win this is to take the long

00:52:27.900 game approach and to slog away for the next 10 years while the tyranny continues and we just we

00:52:33.500 just keep chipping away at it and hope eventually we can chip away at it um you know that was that

00:52:38.540 was that was warble forces approach you know we're not going to get rid of slavery in six months

00:52:43.180 but if we keep at it for 40 years and we will right um it was the same thing in the eastern

00:52:49.260 europe under the iron curtain i think i think that's so that's that's my which is a very

00:52:53.100 depressing approach i know but that's that's my general approach is yeah hey you know we're not

00:52:58.300 going to get out of this soon um it's too late for that now but and maybe we'll never get out of it

00:53:04.220 but the right thing to do is to fight as long as we can fight we must that's the right thing to do

00:53:09.420 let's do it and one of my clients feel the same way they understand when i tell them like your

00:53:12.780 chances are not good before you spend any money on me you need to know that i'm not going to talk you

00:53:16.620 up about your chances so that you'll hire me and pay me you need to know our chances are not good

00:53:22.220 right the winds are against us but fight we must fight we will and there is some hope that whether

00:53:31.420 it's 40 years or 14 years or four years we may eventually get out of this if we just keep beating

00:53:39.020 on the door and you know of course in litigation part of your strategy is is not simply to win in

00:53:43.660 court it's to just keep banging on the door until it's it's the story of of of the unrighteous judge

00:53:50.300 and and and the old lady who won't leave him alone finally not because of justice or righteousness

00:53:57.340 but because he wants to get rid of her because she won't leave him alone

00:54:01.660 he he gives her the justice that she needs right it's the same thing if you just keep suing the

00:54:06.620 government you just keep suing ahs you just keep beating the drum maybe eventually finally you'll

00:54:11.660 get somewhere even if it's not in the official sense through through a through a court order

00:54:15.180 that you want, but you, you know, finally the government relents, right? I mean, that's, you

00:54:19.800 know, why, why is it getting better other places in the world? Part of it is because the freedom

00:54:23.160 fighters have just kept up the fight and finally they wear down the government, right? That's,

00:54:29.740 if, if, if there is any, any, any source of hope in our country, that's where it is, is, is, is

00:54:35.020 enough people will fight hard enough and long enough that finally we'll, we'll, we'll wear away

00:54:39.620 bit by bit at the tyranny until, until finally it crumbles. That's, that's my litigation approach.

00:54:47.340 Okay. Let's, let's hope it doesn't take 10 years to get out of this, but, um,

00:54:53.860 Omega's a long ways away. Well, I want to thank you for coming and sharing your perspective

00:54:59.860 with us today and just filling us in. And again, hopefully we can, um, stay in touch and you can

00:55:05.660 keep me sort of in the loop of what's coming down and what we're seeing. And let's hope we

00:55:12.360 see more change coming through other, you know, decisions being made through other

00:55:17.600 legal proceedings happening, perhaps even with influences from big corporations that are making

00:55:23.980 change. And, you know, other countries making change and moving away from mandates. Let's hope

00:55:30.780 that um that will have a bit better um influence on uh on decisions here but uh yeah i wanted to

00:55:37.500 thank you for coming and sharing with us today you're welcome thanks for hearing me out

Western Standard - January 21, 2022

WATCH： Calgary Lawyer discusses Canada’s ‘broken judicial system

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