00:00:00.000Good morning. I'm Melanie Risden with the Western Standard. Thanks for joining me this morning. And
00:00:13.860also joining me is James Kitchen. He is a Calgary lawyer, Alberta lawyer. You sort of serve across
00:00:20.820the country, don't you? I do. Yeah, you do. We have the technology to do that these days. So
00:00:26.660James is joining us today. We're going to be talking about a few things, including human
00:00:31.000rights laws, charter laws, constitutional laws, and just having a good look at what's happening
00:00:40.180with the mandates within our country and talk about what's happening around the world in some
00:00:47.260places. But give me an idea of your experience. You used to work for JCCF. You're now on your own.
00:00:56.660with your own firm. That's right. That's right. I did a lot of charter litigation at the Justice
00:01:01.880Center for Constitutional Freedoms, which was great. A good learning experience, baptism by
00:01:07.260fire. I got thrown into litigating a lot of really tough cases really early on in my career. So I was
00:01:12.580very blessed that way. So I felt like it was time for me to go out on my own. So I started my own
00:01:18.140practice on July 1st of 2021. And had been busy. Yeah, the first month was great. I only worked
00:01:27.360normal full-time hours and then August hit and I was busy. As some people probably have known
00:01:32.260because they've tried to get a hold of me and, you know, I've told them, look, I can't take any
00:01:35.460more clients. I work alone. I don't have anybody else to work with yet. So there's always so many
00:01:40.700clients I can take on. But I've done quite a bit and I try to do as much as I can for students and
00:01:45.980employees and all the many clients i have now refresh my memory do you do union represent union
00:01:52.460or a broad range of employees so far i have not represented any unionized employees that's been
00:02:00.500by design um i've tried to shuffle them off to people like derek from and others um yeah poor
00:02:06.620suckers um i just i don't like employment law um i i have gotten sucked into it a bit i had just had
00:02:12.360a hearing in New Brunswick this morning where I had to argue that my unionized clients should0.91
00:02:17.080be able to come to the court to get a constitutional remedy. So I've gotten sucked into it. And I think
00:02:20.700that's just inevitable because that's what's going on right now. Thousands of people are
00:02:24.740left in the lurch because their unions are woke and refuse to grieve their rights violations.
00:02:29.440And so they're left wondering, what do I do? Right. What options do I have?
00:02:33.400Yeah. But I tend to just take regular employees who are not part of a union.
00:02:38.380Now, you also mentioned that you are representing people who've gotten fines or tickets and things of that nature as well for, I don't know, I'm assuming mandate breaches or I think you said rallies for, yeah.
00:02:56.320Yes, I still have a couple of clients that are facing public health tickets.
00:03:00.860For example, I have a church in Edmonton with the Rebel actually funded by the Democracy Fund.
00:03:07.320they've they got a series of tickets for public health infractions because they
00:03:11.940were holding church and allowed to hold church so just had a couple of those
00:03:16.020tickets dropped actually so I have a trial in April on that I got a couple
00:03:19.560other businesses that have gotten public health tickets I have some businesses
00:03:23.260that I've been advising that could potentially turn into big fights with
00:03:26.040AHS so yeah any anything to do with public health a you know I have a couple
00:03:32.400doctor clients. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm regularly litigating against HHS, um,
00:03:37.800which is always interesting. So yeah, it's, there's quite a wide diversity. Um, you know,
00:03:43.320people get ahold of my information and, and, um, you know, if it's, if it's a really tough
00:03:47.040case that they can't, just can't get anybody else to help them with. Um, and if I can squeeze
00:03:51.620them in, then I, I do my best. So I had reached out to you the other day on the kind of reversal
00:03:59.120that Shell put out about their vaccine policy, their mandate for site workers to show proof
00:04:06.000of vaccination. Now they have reversed that. And you commented on that saying you felt that that
00:04:11.440was a very wise business decision. You said that there were sort of two things that could
00:04:17.680be happening there. Do you want to kind of rehash that with me here? Sure.
00:04:21.760you know it's it's interesting because if you if you can set aside all the humanity and the ethics
00:04:29.780and the and the you know justice of this stuff and just look at it from a business sense
00:04:35.020it just doesn't make any sense now maybe maybe being woke is a good money maker i don't know i
00:04:41.600don't see how it is but apparently it must be um because you know a lot of these big businesses that
00:04:46.580that aren't in in what would be a woke industry right you know you have oil companies right that's
00:04:51.320not a woke industry. And yet they seem to be all about this big image of wokeness and this big PR
00:04:58.980campaign. We got 100% vaccination and safety is our top priority. But I just can't see how it's
00:05:07.040good business sense to fire dozens or scores or hundreds of employees that have been with you for
00:05:13.78010, 20, 30 years that know what they're doing and work hard or honest people. It's usually the best
00:05:18.620of people by the way that don't take the vaccine on conscience because these people live by
00:05:22.820principles that's why they won't take it on principle principle people tend to make really
00:05:26.340good employees so it's usually the best employees that you're getting rid of um exposing yourself to
00:05:31.280all this all this liability um you know all the money wasted on on all this this testing and um
00:05:38.440it just it just doesn't seem to make any business now then again i haven't run one of these businesses
00:05:43.100so but it just doesn't seem to make any business sense so if i'm looking at it from a business
00:05:47.520this sense, why keep up the charade? Why keep putting your employees through the ringer like
00:05:53.720this? I mean, it can't be helping their productivity. You reported on the mental health
00:05:57.340crisis and I've experienced it amongst my clients. And I read about it in the statements they give
00:06:02.780me. So if I'm showing thinking as far as getting my employees back to work and having them work
00:06:08.920well and having morale go up and having productivity go up and reducing the wasted expenses and all
00:06:13.620this COVID nonsense, you know, let's just stop the charade, stop the testing, stop the mandates,
00:06:18.700and just go back to work. Now, then it could also, this could also be in conjunction with the fact
00:06:24.500that it is unjust, inhumane, unethical, cruel to oppress and coerce people through the threatened
00:06:34.940loss of employment income to inject something in their bodies they don't want. That's without
00:06:43.560it being dangerous it is dangerous but without it being dangerous it's still ethically repulsive
00:06:51.320to put somebody under the thumb and say if you don't inject this foreign substance in your body
00:06:57.800you're losing your job for some people that means your kids go hungry mortgage goes unpaid
00:07:05.000you know like i have i have clients in new brunswick that's what they're facing they're
00:07:09.160selling their house they're selling their car so that they can figure out how to live how to feed
00:07:13.720their kids because they've been told no jab no job so you have to be an unfortunate human being
00:07:22.600to not uh have a pain of conscience when you're when you're thinking about that that i'm firing
00:07:28.520this person for no other reason than the fact that they have said no to injecting their body
00:07:33.560with a foreign substance which is a perfectly reasonable position to take and that's even
00:07:36.600before getting to the getting to the scientific fact that they don't work because obviously they
00:07:40.120don't work so obviously they're dangerous obviously they don't work but even even putting
00:07:42.520that aside it's still wrong uh to make somebody go through that right so um if i'm a decent human
00:07:49.960being at some point i'm going to say enough is enough because you know my employees are suffering
00:07:56.200and they've told me and i can't keep doing this to them and claim to be a decent human being
00:08:00.520so i i don't i don't know if it's it has to be one or the other over at show maybe it's both
00:08:04.920hopefully it is and and so hopefully that um they're a trendsetter with that and we can get
00:08:10.360back to some human decency uh i'm not a touchy-feely kind of guy um i i'm a i'm a tough
00:08:15.560litigator and you know emotion isn't my first priority but um at the same time i i i do care
00:08:22.680about people that's why i do what i do i hate to see them suffer and be oppressed um as if as if
00:08:28.440we're in some third world country um and that's what's going on and um it's just it's just not
00:08:33.800okay to do that to people and we've totally lost that over the last couple years in our society
00:08:40.600and so if we could start getting that back that'd be nice because if we don't i mean you know the
00:08:45.720tyranny is going to continue the oppression and the coercion and the cruelty is just going to
00:08:50.040continue we need some human decency let's talk a little bit about the tyranny uh that that we're
00:08:55.720witnessing um what are your what are your thoughts around what you've seen unfold in this country
00:09:01.480for the last two years? The worst civil liberties crisis in the history of the country.
00:09:07.480It's not like we haven't had civil liberties crisis before. We've got the residential school1.00
00:09:11.960system. We got what happened to the Japanese during World War II. We got all kinds of things
00:09:15.560we can look at in history. And I would say this is the worst civil liberties crisis this country's
00:09:18.680ever experienced. And we're not handling it very well. Canada as a nation is one of the most
00:09:28.120oppressive nations um in the first world right now uh and and throughout covet i think um many other
00:09:35.320countries have fared much better um and i think that speaks to our culture our culture of of
00:09:40.600embracing authoritarianism embracing big government justifying um justifying uh the means by the ends
00:09:49.640you know very utilitarian um very collectivist very socialist very marxist um and you know this
00:09:57.560is the practical result when you as a culture take that take that view the end result is that you0.90
00:10:03.080will oppress minorities you will not tolerate dissidents because that's those those are part
00:10:08.840and parcel with an authoritarian society so right right now that's that's that's the problem is we0.93
00:10:13.320have these minorities these dissidents that you know the unwoke who are saying hey let's be free0.96
00:10:17.960let's have individual uh responsibility and rights let's not you know let's have let's have the right0.66
00:10:22.360to decline things in our body and the majority is saying no to hell with you if you're not going to
00:10:26.920to toe the line, then you're a second-class citizen. And that's a culture thing. It's
00:10:31.740manifesting itself in the courts, in our politics, but I think it goes to our culture. And I think
00:10:37.580that's why you see this massive distinction between us and south of the border.
00:10:41.700So growing up in Canada, I have never really felt that we were even close to going down the road
00:10:48.740that we've gone down. I guess somehow I just didn't see that we were becoming that as a nation.
00:10:56.920I just wouldn't have seen any indicators to feel that we were moving into that much of a social,
00:11:04.040like what, what, what kind of pointed you in that direction?
00:11:10.320You know, I get that a lot from my clients.
00:11:13.100Like I'm surprised that we have moved to where we are as a country.
00:11:17.580And so I'm not, and I, and I wasn't in 2020, but that is because of my unique experience at the
00:11:24.360Justice Center, right? I mean, you know, yes, when I went to law school, I did. I had some
00:11:28.780nice ideals about how free this country is and what a great place to be, you know, a lawyer who
00:11:35.100practices public law and tries to uphold rights and freedoms. And I had these ideas and I went
00:11:40.580to law school ideals and I had them when I left and I thought, hey, this is great. I'm going to
00:11:44.740go work at the Justice Center and I'm going to help uphold rights and freedoms. And then I got
00:11:49.140there and I realized, whoa, we're on the downward trend. We've been there for a while. It's just
00:11:55.040not obvious yet. Most people just can't see it yet because it's not really in daily life yet.
00:12:00.400And plus, you do acclimatize to tyranny, right? You can look at all kinds of historical examples
00:12:06.420where people kind of, unfortunately, they get used to living under the tyranny, which means
00:12:10.280they can learn to live under, which can be good. The problem is that you tend to forget, right?
00:12:14.660I mean, ask an average Chinese person living in China whether they're free or not.0.97
00:12:19.780I mean, you know, the answer will probably be bizarre, right?
00:12:26.980But at the jurisprudential level, at the level of the cases that, you know, have been decided over the last 10, 15, 20 years and were decided in the last five years while I was litigating, you could see where this was going.0.86
00:12:42.100You could see the circumcision of rights.0.51
00:12:44.340You could see them being narrowed. You could see the court broadening the scope for what governments can just easily get away with under Section 1 of the Charter.
00:12:56.040You see the shift. And I would say, you know, really was around the year 2000.
00:13:02.020A lot of the old good judges that did a lot of the initial interpretation and application of charter rights were no longer on the bench.
00:13:11.620and they were replaced by, you know, more judges with a different ideology, right? And it is
00:13:18.140ideology. It does come down to that. It is, you know, it is a myth that judges are completely
00:13:26.440neutral or, you know, unbiased or whatever term you want to use when it comes to constitutional
00:13:34.260rights. They use their worldviews, their paradigms, their political views to influence
00:13:39.520those decisions. Those decisions on our charter rights and on whether or not the violation of
00:13:45.520those has been justified, it's basically a treatise in political philosophy. And I'm sorry,
00:13:51.680but if you're a libertarian or you're a Marxist, your political philosophies are going to look
00:13:55.600radically different. And your understanding of what is good and right and justified are going
00:14:02.720to look radically different, right? If you're a collectivist, then you're going to think,
00:14:08.400think, it's not that you're a bad person or you have bad ideas. You're going to think the world
00:14:13.320is a better place when there's a nice, big, benevolent government that has lots of power
00:14:16.880and individuals don't have a lot of rights and the government can really direct where things go.
00:14:22.180If you're a libertarian, you're going to think, no, no, the world's a better place
00:14:25.080when people are more free and government is really limited. And even if there's these natural
00:14:30.440evils that happen, we're going to let the people deal with them as best they can, even if that's
00:14:35.420messy and leave government out of it. Because as soon as government tries to fix this mess,
00:14:39.500they will make it 10 times worse. You know, roughly what a libertarian believes. You know,
00:14:44.500so if you look at judges like Major and Yacobushi and these guys from, and you go back to Justice
00:14:51.380Rand, that's 50s and 60s. But the first two guys I mentioned were 80s and 90s. I think they view,
00:14:57.900well, I mean, I read their decisions and I conclude that they view the world in a more
00:15:01.560libertarian way not in a marxist way and their decisions are different than decisions that you
00:15:08.200might get from justice abella for example who you know obviously um you know values freedom less um
00:15:15.480and and and so of course this is all very high level and philosophical and unattainable for the
00:15:20.760average person and so we get all these decisions prior to colvin that are you know shrinking free
00:15:25.000speech really almost eliminating freedom of religion especially to the trinity western case
00:15:30.280and but it's not really manifesting in daily life yet so except for the you know the law nerds and
00:15:36.840the litigation the constitutional litigators and those few people paying attention to it what does
00:15:40.980it matter right right for example do average canadians give a hoot about who's on our supreme
00:15:47.600court do they know anything about the process are they even aware when a new supreme court
00:15:52.120justice is appointed no they're not why is that because they don't get it why do the americans
00:15:57.980pretty much light their hair on fire every time a new supreme court justice has to be appointed
00:16:02.700because they know that those nine promoted lawyers in washington have way more control
00:16:09.260in the long run over their daily lives and their daily liberties than the president of the time
00:16:14.620they know that they get that at a deep cultural level the majority of americans get that majority
00:16:19.900of canadians don't and we're paying the price for it now right because for for for 20 years
00:16:26.380we have not cared when we elect our politicians we don't we don't give we don't give a wink of
00:16:32.220thought to who they might appoint on the bench right and and the power that those people on
00:16:36.220the bench are going to have right and the ability of those people on the bench to change not just
00:16:41.100our law but our our whole constitutional order they have the ability to do that for better or
00:16:45.820for worse right so so does the american supreme court right and our our liberties in the long run
00:16:53.260maybe not in a six-month period but over over over over two decades in the long run
00:17:00.140those those people those appointed lawyers i'm using that language intentionally justice
00:17:06.700scalia used to talk that way um you know to remind people that look there's nothing particularly
00:17:11.660special about about judges they're really just promoted lawyers okay um you know those those
00:17:19.420people are going to have way more impact on whether or not our society remains a free one
00:17:26.300than any passing politician of the day. And that's, you know, we're reaping that ignorance now,
00:17:34.740you know, because I think a lot of people thought, okay, well, yes, the governments have gone off the
00:17:41.180rails. They're acting as petty tyrants, but this is a country ruled by the rule of law.
00:17:47.360We have a constitution, and the courts will bring us out of this.
00:17:51.260You know, the voice of reason will bring us, the third branch of government will function, will bring us out of this.
00:17:59.860Two years later, we're still living in this madness.
00:18:02.140We're still living under tyranny because the only institution that could effectively bring us out is the courts, and they don't want to, right?
00:19:03.540Well, and compelled speech means that he just explain it a little bit so people understand what compelled speech is.
00:19:11.700Health speech is basically taking the words of somebody else and shoving them into your mouth and making you speak them.
00:19:16.460So what did he have to speak and when and where? What was that looking like?
00:19:22.900My understanding of that ruling was that prior to criticizing AHS or criticizing the COVID narrative or saying anything that was counter-narrative,
00:19:30.620he had to first preface it with the government's narrative, right?
00:19:35.400He had to speak the government's words that were not his own.
00:19:38.120Now, what those words were specifically, I don't know.
00:19:39.760But that's the idea, is that he had to say something that wasn't his own thoughts or his own words, that was pro-government before he could criticize the government.
00:19:50.840Now, fortunately, that's a rare example of the rule of law working and of our courts working in some sense, you know, when that was appealed to the Court of Appeal in Alberta, and an injunction was sought to set that aside while the main appeal went ahead, a Court of Appeal justice stayed that part of Justice Germain's decision.
00:20:15.660okay so good right that's a rare example of something actually um you know of of a success
00:20:23.020uh you went on you know civil liberties versus versus covid tyranny uh that's you know one of
00:20:28.060maybe three successes we've had in the last two years so i'm happy about that but that's that
00:20:32.540that should not be an exception that should be the rule that but that's been very much the exception
00:20:37.020and i know a lot of average regular canadians a lot of my clients are very confused and distressed
00:20:42.140by this. They make comments just like you said. I thought I was growing up in a free country.
00:20:46.420Actually, I have a lot of immigrants too. I moved here to escape precisely the tyranny
00:20:51.340that you're all bringing in. And I'm very angry about that because that's not fair.
00:20:56.280I came here to get away from this. I've been here 20 years. I've built a life here. I built
00:20:59.880a business here. And now it looks just like the country I've led. And that should really
00:21:05.300be telling for people. That should mean a little more. If people are into this whole racism
00:21:09.660nonsense that maybe that means a little more you know they get tired of all these white canadians
00:21:13.820saying oh you know i thought we lived in a free country this is what i grew up in well i got a0.93
00:21:16.860lot of brown canadians who came here because it was free and they're pretty mad about that1.00
00:21:21.980and they have every right to be um but that's that's that's where we're going and we got here1.00
00:21:28.700in a way that is just difficult to grasp and difficult to see before it's too late
00:21:33.180um you know but that's why we uh between our political system and our judicial system we
00:21:37.980We can't get out of this mess because our political system will never get us out of0.64
00:23:25.080Right. Well, they would call it safety, security.
00:23:27.420social responsibility. Yeah. Collectivism. Again, it's not that they view themselves as tyrants or
00:23:35.320that they want to act what we might think is bad. They just simply, they have different values,
00:23:41.860right? They value safety, security, collectivism, the greater good, the public good,
00:23:49.220public interest, blah, blah, blah. Over individual. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I mean,
00:23:54.340It's the old battle of ideas between, you know, the collectivist ideas that underlie communism and the individualistic ideas that underlie, you know, capitalism and the free market and personal responsibility, et cetera, et cetera, right?
00:24:12.480And, you know, Canadians embraced this in the 60s and 70s when they embraced Tommy Douglas's idea of public health care.
00:24:19.600And if I had have been there, I would have been one of those few crazy libertarians that would have said, yeah, yeah, you'll be regretting this 40 years from now, right?
00:24:26.500Would this mess be as bad if we did not have public health care, right?
00:24:31.040But most Canadians just, whoa, because they think public health care is great, right?
00:24:36.040And they think the Americans are just cruel to each other because they don't, you know, they don't have –
00:30:36.180Yeah, they're looking at this and rationally and saying,
00:30:38.740well everybody it's madness now and why should i think the madness is going to end and madness just
00:30:43.780keeps getting worse right you know it's just as much madness to put somebody in jail as to keep
00:30:48.580them out of a restaurant the only difference is the is the severity of the practical impact right
00:30:53.140one one thing can bleed into the other pretty quick if you're if there's no logic or decent
00:30:57.380or human decency or sanity that that that's that's reigning there now there's a lot of things
00:31:03.700happening in the world right now, you know, sort of many extremes, I think. We just reported on
00:31:10.500the fact that the UK has announced they're lifting all of their mandates. They're lifting
00:31:15.940the mask mandate, they're lifting the vaccination mandate. And basically, you know, it was sort of
00:31:22.900quoted that they are not going to criminalize people anymore for, you know, not wearing a mask
00:31:32.980and and things like that so so you see these kinds of things happening in the uk there's other uh
00:31:38.820european countries that are following suit as well and then you've got canada with just a week a week0.97
00:31:45.540or two ago where we announced that we're going to be taxing um the unvaccinated in quebec right it0.84
00:31:51.940it's it's such a huge cavernous difference between the things that we're seeing happening0.55
00:32:00.340around the world with this. So I understand where you're coming from with Canada being one of the
00:32:05.140most impressive at the moment. But what you're seeing around the world, are we seeing an
00:32:13.060unraveling? Are we seeing sort of a returning to looking at the evidence and saying, okay,
00:32:24.580whether anyone wants to admit you know we we had it wrong or we we responded wrongly but just to
00:32:31.800change course are you hopeful that this is I mean let's talk about you know let's throw shell
00:32:38.660reversing their mandate in that which I think some people are hopeful that that could be a trend
00:32:44.000where are you pessimistic are you optimistic where are you on the spectrum of watching all
00:32:51.160this unfold well i try to consider myself i do consider myself a realist i try to be realistic
00:32:57.880i know most people consider me a pessimist a lot of people are very rah-rah hope hope we're gonna
00:33:02.360you know we're gonna get through this it's gonna turn around um i have a lot of clients and people
00:33:06.840tell me man you're you're pretty dark about this um but i i don't see any cause for hope in canada
00:33:14.680Now, I do around the world. Yes. And that's good. And hey, hopefully that either means that people can can go to that or that that maybe will eventually have an effect here.
00:33:26.140But as far as as far as as any any reason to hope that we can internally change here, I just don't see it.
00:33:34.340Our institutions are all, I would say, ideologically corrupt.
00:33:39.300And so far as they've they've embraced an ideology of authoritarianism and collectivism.
00:33:44.680All of our universities, all of our government bodies, all of our, you know, a lot of our big non-profit, they've just embraced wokeism.
00:33:54.560And the woke thing to do is to parrot the narrative and crush any dissent.
00:34:00.720So I just see very, very, very few examples of anybody in any kind of important position of power or influence speaking up.
00:34:13.740And I think most of them fully support it.
00:34:16.320And maybe there's a small group that don't support it, but they aren't courageous enough to put their neck on the line.
00:34:22.080Obviously, there's the few rare examples.
00:34:24.820There's the politicians like Bernier and Hillier, and there's the odd institutional leader.
00:34:30.060But there's so few and so far between.
00:37:19.780why why has this not um you know why have they not had to bring forward a burden of proof where
00:37:27.600well you know what you know what i mean like i one of the one of the examples i use with people
00:37:34.780is you know imagine a situation where you where you have a store that's being looted
00:37:39.660you have a hundred men that are looting the store and you have you have 10 police officers who are
00:37:44.500standing there thinking can we can we do something no we can't they don't number us 10 to 1
00:37:49.420So the looting continues, right? In that scenario, there's no rule of law for that moment, for that 20 minutes that the looting happens, right? Because everybody's doing it all at once and the law can't keep up. Again, this is even assuming that the law wants to and would catch up. It can't.
00:38:06.420So right now, you have private and public bodies that are getting away with whatever they want in the name of COVID.
00:38:15.320The rule of law is completely broken down when it comes to the area of civil liberties and COVID, right?
00:38:19.660Whether it's in the employment context or at universities or governments, they move so fast, they do it all at once, and the law can't, even if it wants to, it can't keep up, right?
00:38:30.700By the time you finally get something filed that starts to move it, it's four months later and, you know, all this damage has been done, all these things have happened and you can't properly rectify it, right?
00:38:42.520So that's what's happening right now is practically speaking, people are getting away with what would have been prior to COVID patently unlawful.
00:38:52.280It may end up being unlawful or may not end up being unlawful, right?
00:38:56.260I think the law, because judges ultimately mold the law, they can bend the law to accommodate COVID if they want to.
00:39:04.140And that's what I've seen for two years.
00:39:05.700So if that continues, then we're going to see a lot of law change instead of COVID policies changing because of what the law was prior to COVID, which is unfortunate.
00:39:17.700But that's kind of how our system works as a common law system.
00:39:20.320It changes with time to hopefully improve as society changes.
00:39:28.540So I think right now, practically speaking, everybody's getting away with it because the law can't keep up.
00:39:32.600It's like the 10 officers that can't keep up with the 100 looters.
00:39:35.740That's why everybody, I mean, all these unpaid leaves, it's all unlawful constructive termination, right?
00:39:40.540All these government mandates, they're all gross violations of the charter that, in my opinion, are obviously unjustified.
00:39:46.580But it takes, again, even if the law wants to, it takes years to catch up with this stuff.
00:39:50.360So you're going to get away with it practically in the short run.
00:39:52.280And then there's the fact that by the time lawyers like me want to file all this stuff
00:39:56.420to catch up with it, the law can, again, the judges can just change the law to accommodate
00:40:02.800COVID instead of striking down the COVID policies to accommodate the law, which is really the
00:40:10.520And when you have the force or the weight of 95% of the legal profession,
00:40:16.740behind changing the law to accommodate covid um yeah i don't blame them for thinking they're
00:40:21.620going to get away with it all these universities that are kicking out all these students all these
00:40:24.900all these employers firing all these people yeah i don't blame them for believing the lawyers when
00:40:30.340their lawyers say to them you'll get away with this we'll be able we'll be able to handle this
00:40:34.900of course because first of all they have a number of people like me ten to one
00:40:38.420um and and and they got deeper pockets because because their clients are the ones with more money
00:40:43.060um but but then there's the fact of hey i mean we look at the courts and we say well clearly the
00:40:47.140courts are on side with with government with the covet narrative with the mandates uh every
00:40:53.060everything we've seen from all the courts all across the country is you know good job government
00:40:56.340keep going that's that's all we see if i'm a lawyer on the other side yeah i think yeah
00:41:02.500we're gonna win this the law will change we'll make a change that's how it works so anyways all
00:41:08.820this to say i this is these are some of the reasons why i don't see any cause for internal hope
00:41:14.020in canada maybe you know if the whole world embraces freedom again the weight of that could
00:41:18.820could could crush in in a good way um but but internally no i see i see no i see i see decades
00:41:26.260of of more tyranny right oh well that's um depressing i'm sure why i'm sure it was for
00:41:35.140the eastern europeans you know when they were looking at this in the in the 1950s and 60s i
00:41:40.180mean they signed up 40 years of it a lot of them died never saw it what about the international
00:41:45.220courts what about you know like the nuremberg trials what about those bodies that have intervened
00:41:53.060in the past well the past was different i mean look at the united nations look at what it what
00:42:01.940you know it's supposed to be and what it started out as right i mean it's it's it's more a force
00:42:08.020for evil and injustice than it is good now it didn't start out that way things things corrupt0.74
00:42:14.180over time um you know the the slow march through the institution the the the the marxists with
00:42:19.140their with their authoritarian collectivist ideas are never going to go away they're always going
00:42:22.420to be there and they're always going to be infiltrating and those ideas are are they both
00:42:27.220feel good and sound good to those who you know are are gullible but but but you know do want to try
00:42:32.740and make the world a better place but are gullible but what ideas actually do um and then there's the
00:42:36.980whole power dynamic i haven't i haven't got into that is the fact is power is like a drug and and
00:42:43.860you you you get a few shots of it you become like a heroin addict right i mean i was i was there in
00:42:49.860in the beginning when ahs first started doing this they weren't power hungry uh tyrants in the
00:42:57.800beginning they were doing what they thought was best they were just trying to help they they i
00:43:02.700think a lot of them really thought this is just going to be temporary they didn't oppress people
00:43:07.940the way they do now they didn't there was there was there was a there was a marked change in tone
00:43:13.700they weren't running around just exercising their power for the heck of it they were they were just
00:43:19.180trying to manage a crisis that's how it started that's how it always starts but then you know
00:43:27.040they felt they they felt the drug the power and i've seen it i've i've watched it for two years
00:43:33.740because i was there in the beginning when it started and and that power has has acted like
00:43:40.280a drug with a lot of these people as it does with anybody we're all susceptible to it right some of
00:43:45.620us maybe a little a little better at it than others but we're use token i think tolkien got
00:43:52.280this really well in his writings you know he talks about those nine the nine ring rights right
00:43:57.760you know and nine rings of power were given to men who above all others desire power
00:44:03.000like he bang on and capturing humanity and capturing you know the the the universal human
00:44:09.600advice of desiring power. And this is why people who are aware of history, they say all the time,
00:44:18.180you can't give power to government expected to get it back willingly. You just won't, right?
00:44:23.460That's basic human nature. That's basic history, right? Here we are. Whether it's AHS, whether it's
00:44:29.580Kenny, whether it's Trudeau, whether it's whatever, if you give power to these people,
00:44:34.960you can't expect them to just give it back most of them are not socrates or philosopher kings
00:44:42.760they're not going to willingly easy give it up of course not right it feels too good you're like a
00:44:51.240heroin addict so here we are how do we get it back you're not going to get it back just by asking
00:44:57.300Do you not think or believe that, you know, sort of the idea of the information that's coming up, people are starting to see the truth in the sense of, you know, these vaccines did not stop transmission.
00:45:14.940So really, at the end of the day, we can all catch, we can all carry, we can all spread.
00:45:19.360Are you hopeful that sort of this, I guess, the morphing of the narrative with the general population might change people's mentality towards, you know, even like one of the other statistics here, two thirds of Canadians say they are in favor of mandated vaccines.
00:45:47.780So the majority of the of the people pulled in this poll said they were in favor of mandating vaccines.
00:45:55.540But I mean, what I'm getting at is if if it's fully proven that you are still susceptible to catching, carrying, spreading, then, you know, do you not hope that that kind of information and that being sort of played out in society now?
00:46:13.660I mean, if you look, the majority of cases right now are in the vaccinated population.
00:46:20.660You know, being in the vaccinated population, still having to mask, still having to pay
00:46:26.060for tests to be able to travel, you know, still sort of being penalized.
00:46:30.720Do you not think or hope that at some point, even the vaccinated group, even the people
00:46:37.620that are, you know, the two thirds might feel differently?
00:46:43.060might change their mind might be convinced i hope for it and it's possible but i don't expect it
00:46:50.000i have no reason to to expect it you're not seeing it you're not okay no you know the odd person here
00:46:57.740or there of course but that that's increasing the the population of those who are against this from
00:47:04.100six to six percent to seven percent that's just not going to cut it it's a numbers game it's just
00:47:09.340not going to cut it. You got to get some sort of threshold of a significant minority of people
00:47:15.280before the scales really tip. I don't see that. And I think, again, that goes back to the cultural
00:47:22.360aspect, right? In the States, they're able to hang on to their freedom because there's still 40,
00:47:27.10050, maybe even 60% of the population that have this freedom is just ingrained culturally into
00:47:33.080them, right? Well, I think it's mixed up with patriotism too, which is like a concept foreign
00:47:37.160to Canadians, maybe even foreign to me as a Canadian. Unfortunately, I am a Canadian and
00:47:42.640patriotism is completely a foreign concept to me. I don't even understand it. Liking my country,
00:47:49.220that doesn't even, you know, even when the country was likable, I didn't really particularly like it,
00:47:53.040you know, but at least it was likable. It was a free, decent place. So yeah, I think
00:47:59.380you're inherent in your in your question is the presumption that that that reason is prioritized
00:48:08.700by most people it's not they prioritize pleasure and emotions what feels good what sounds good
00:48:18.140but I can't imagine it feels good to do what you were told and still be suffering
00:48:24.900you know, still being penalized, right? Still being forced into restrictions that they too
00:48:33.980have to live by. Yeah, if they view it that way, and that would be the reasonable,
00:48:38.820intelligent way to view it. But that's mixed up with all the fear that the propaganda has
00:48:46.080stirred up in them and the desire for security and the desire for less responsibility. I want
00:48:53.360I want the government to be responsible for this, right?