Western Standard - WATCH： JCCF on Emergencies Act

00:00:00.000 I'm Melanie Risden with the Western Standard and we are going to do a bit of a dive into

00:00:14.400 the Emergencies Act that has been invoked in Canada. And joining me for a discussion

00:00:21.340 on the Emergencies Act is John Carpe. He is the president and a lawyer with Justice Centre

00:00:27.940 for Constitutional Freedoms. Thanks for joining us, John. Glad to be with you.

00:00:34.020 So we are looking at, I know I was just listening, the MPs are going to be debating the Emergencies

00:00:41.500 Act now in the House of Commons. They've agreed to an extended sitting and they are going to go

00:00:48.000 till midnight tonight, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They are going to be sitting through the entire

00:00:55.180 weekend to debate the Emergencies Act. And it looks like we are going to see a vote coming on

00:01:02.320 Monday, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, which will be six o'clock our time here in Calgary.

00:01:09.320 So, you know, we thought it would be a great idea to get into the actual Emergencies Act,

00:01:17.740 which used to be the War Measures Act and has been sort of ratified and updated to now

00:01:25.380 what we refer to as the Emergencies Act. And I really think, John, there's a lot of Canadians who

00:01:30.900 really don't know much about this at all because we've really never had to live through something

00:01:38.620 like this outside of 1970 when Trudeau Senior, ironically, brought it in for the FLQ October

00:01:48.100 crisis. So let's talk a little bit about it. Well, as you said, the Canadians over 60 might 0.74

00:01:56.380 remember the October crisis in 1970. And that situation was the former Prime Minister Pierre

00:02:04.100 Elliott Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act to deal with violent terrorists in Quebec.

00:02:11.780 We had a situation throughout from the early 1960s right on through to 1970. You had the Front de

00:02:17.860 Liberation du Québec, the Quebec Liberation Front, or the FLQ. And they were putting bombs in cars,

00:02:25.700 putting bombs in mailboxes. They put a bomb in the house of Montreal Mayor Jean Drapeau. And

00:02:34.660 they just got worse and worse. And then in 1970, they actually kidnapped British Trade Commissioner

00:02:41.220 James Cross. And they kidnapped Quebec cabinet minister Pierre Laporte and later murdered him.

00:02:48.260 And then the Pierre Elliott Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act, suspended civil liberties,

00:02:54.980 sent in the troops to primarily Montreal, but throughout Quebec, there were guns and soldiers with guns in

00:03:03.140 the streets of Montreal and Ottawa, other Canadian cities, but special focus on Quebec.

00:03:11.380 And what happened was they arrested hundreds and hundreds of people without a warrant. Anybody who

00:03:19.860 was suspected of having anything to do with the FLQ was arrested. Some people were detained without bail,

00:03:26.740 temporarily. Most of the people that were arrested were released without charge after some questioning.

00:03:34.740 But there's a definite violation of civil liberties. And the debate continues to the present

00:03:41.140 about historians. You know, was Pierre Elliott Trudeau correct to have invoked the War Measures Act?

00:03:48.420 But one thing was very clear, whether it was right or wrong,

00:03:50.820 I don't have a strong opinion either way. Pierre Elliott Trudeau in 1970 was dealing with violent Marxist

00:04:01.140 separatists who wanted to overthrow the democratically elected government of Quebec and create a socialist,

00:04:09.140 independent Quebec that would be allied with the Soviet Union and Cuba. And so Pierre Elliott Trudeau was

00:04:17.220 dealing with violent people doing bombings and kidnapping and murder.

00:04:27.380 Yeah, absolutely. And so when you're looking at what happened back then, and you know, I have this

00:04:34.900 statement where Pierre Elliott Trudeau said he declared that law and order was more important than

00:04:41.780 civil liberties. And, you know, at the time I think there were probably people who were affected, who

00:04:47.540 were scared for their lives, who were scared for their, you know, their neighbors, their communities.

00:04:53.460 But what's happening here and what's happening now with the trucker occupation in Ottawa, the fact that,

00:05:03.460 you know, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of evidence, you know, floating through social media,

00:05:11.700 everywhere that this has been peaceful. I know you and I had talked about the fact that

00:05:18.500 I don't believe there has been any criminal arrests to this point.

00:05:25.540 To the best of my knowledge, and you know, I'm in Calgary, not in Ottawa, but based on what I'm hearing from

00:05:32.740 people on the ground, the Justice Centre has two lawyers there in Ottawa, and we're hearing from other

00:05:40.260 people as well. To my knowledge, in the past three weeks, there's not been a single

00:05:45.220 arrest of a trucker for doing anything criminal. Now, the Ottawa police have claimed that the truckers

00:05:54.100 are breaking Section 430 of the criminal code, which prohibits the

00:05:59.380 obstruction or interference with the lawful use of property or obstructing people from lawfully

00:06:09.940 lawfully using and enjoying property. Now, I think it's a pretty flimsy charge. But here's the thing.

00:06:20.500 The police haven't even charged truckers with the obstruction or interference with the lawful use

00:06:29.780 and enjoyment of property, which is a criminal code offence. Police have not charged truckers

00:06:35.060 with criminal activity. And at the same time, we hear of government seizing or freezing bank accounts,

00:06:43.060 alleging that this money is going to fund criminal activity. But there is no criminal activity in Ottawa

00:06:52.100 when the truckers, no truckers are even being arrested. Although I did just get off the phone with

00:06:59.700 with one of our lawyers in Ottawa. And one of our clients has been arrested as of a few minutes ago.

00:07:07.220 So this would be at about two forty five p.m. Mountain time, four forty five p.m. Ottawa time.

00:07:14.020 So as you and I are discussing this, there might be arrests taking place.

00:07:18.660 But that would be now on on February 17th, not in the past three weeks.

00:07:24.260 Do we have any idea what they have been arrested for? Has that been disclosed?

00:07:30.100 Well, I think what the federal government's trying to do with the declaring that a public

00:07:34.580 order emergency exists, it is now easier to arrest people than what it was last week when the public

00:07:43.460 order emergency did not exist. Let's talk about. Yeah. Sorry about that, John. Let's let's talk about

00:07:50.740 that. Let's talk about the the premise, the the threshold to bring in the Emergencies Act.

00:07:56.740 What needs to be declared? What needs to be happening in order to bring in this act?

00:08:02.660 So the Emergencies Act, which anybody you can Google it online quite easily, Emergencies Act.

00:08:12.020 And Section three says that a national emergency exists if there is a serious threat to the life,

00:08:21.220 health or safety of Canadians, or if there's a serious threat to the ability of the government of

00:08:27.860 Canada to protect our security, sovereignty and territorial integrity.

00:08:37.380 And so it's one of those two things, serious threat to life, health or safety or a serious threat to the security,

00:08:46.980 sovereignty or territorial integrity. And that other existing federal provincial law

00:08:54.260 law is not adequate to deal with the problem. And this just falls on its face when you look at,

00:09:02.100 there is no national emergency right now when you consider that some residents of Ottawa, not all of them,

00:09:11.300 but some residents of Ottawa have been inconvenienced in the past three weeks by truckers,

00:09:17.300 which are probably breaking some of the parking regulations. And there might be some breaking of

00:09:23.780 provincial traffic laws. I don't know. And it's not an admission. But so far that the city and the

00:09:32.260 province and the federal government are not even using existing laws. We don't have truckers arrested

00:09:39.780 under Section 430 of the Criminal Code for interfering with the lawful use of property.

00:09:47.700 I'm not aware of there being traffic tickets being issued or parking infractions.

00:09:53.140 So the existing laws have not proven to be inadequate because they're not even being tried.

00:09:58.900 So and moreover, a bunch of peaceful protesters that are causing some congestion and some inconvenience,

00:10:06.420 that is not a serious threat to the ability of the government of Canada to preserve sovereignty,

00:10:14.260 security and territorial integrity. I mean, it's just ludicrous. It's insane to pretend 0.88

00:10:21.300 that peacefully protesting truckers constitute a national emergency.

00:10:25.380 Right. And so the threshold is nowhere close to even being met to bring this act in. And when the act

00:10:38.340 is invoked, it gives the government extraordinary powers.

00:10:46.100 Well, it does. And in the order that has been issued by cabinet, and I'm glancing down, I've got it

00:10:51.620 printed out. I'll go through what the federal government says the emergency is constituted of.

00:10:58.980 What constitutes the emergency, according to Prime Minister Trudeau, is the continuing blockades

00:11:06.580 by persons and motor vehicles at various locations throughout Canada. Well, my understanding, and I stand

00:11:14.820 to be corrected, is that all the border blockades have been ended and that goods and persons are

00:11:21.140 flowing back and forth across Canada-US border. So the continuing blockades is one of the things that

00:11:27.780 constitutes an emergency. It refers to the continuing threats to oppose measures to remove the blockades,

00:11:34.980 including by force. Okay, blockades are gone. Downtown Ottawa is not being blockaded.

00:11:41.460 Next point, the adverse effects on the Canadian economy. Well, yeah, I guess there were some

00:11:48.500 minimal impacts for a few days when the border at Coutts and Windsor and Emerson, Manitoba were

00:11:55.940 blockaded, but that's gone now. It's over. Next, the adverse effects resulting from the impacts of the

00:12:01.780 blockades on Canada's relationship with its trading partners, including the United States. Okay, no longer an

00:12:07.220 issue. Borders are reopened. Next, the breakdown in the distribution chain and availability of essential

00:12:14.260 goods and services and resources caused by the existing blockades. Okay, there are no blockades.

00:12:21.140 Furthermore, the two years of lockdown measures that we've had have really harmed the distribution

00:12:26.740 chain and availability of essential goods, but I digress. Next, the federal government says that

00:12:36.580 what causes the emergency is the potential for an increase in the level of unrest and violence

00:12:43.540 that would further threaten the safety and security of Canadians. So here they're asserting that there is

00:12:49.060 already a level of violence because they're talking about the potential for an increase in the level of

00:12:56.740 violence. So where's the violence? There is no violence. I mean, this is just completely false.

00:13:02.740 Well, and it seems interesting to me as well that laws are being enacted or this, you know, act is being

00:13:09.220 invoked on a premise that it could become something, right? You know, like that, uh, it, it seems like

00:13:20.180 that's a bit of a stretch as well to to sort of insinuate that we have to do this just in case it does go

00:13:29.860 this way, right? Uh, because I think bringing in this act is, as we've mentioned, I mean, it is reserved for

00:13:38.580 the absolute last resort, you know, wartime.

00:13:42.980 Well, yeah, like, like, for example, 52 years ago, when you had these, uh, a terrorist organization

00:13:49.380 that was putting bombs in mailboxes, putting bombs in cars, putting bombs in homes, uh, they, they put a bomb

00:13:57.620 in the Montreal stock exchange that blew up in 1969 and injured dozens of people. And then they kidnapped

00:14:05.780 government officials, uh, held them for ransom. I mean, that was a situation where, again, it's

00:14:11.700 debatable. There are people who say that, uh, the, the predecessor of the NDP, uh, the, the CCF at that

00:14:18.260 time, no, sorry, it was the NDP in 1970, the NDP was against, uh, Pierre Elliott Trudeau invoking the

00:14:26.500 War Measures Act to deal with violent terrorists. And now today we've got the NDP, uh, that is supporting

00:14:33.620 the younger Trudeau in using emergency powers to deal with peaceful truckers, uh, when there are

00:14:40.100 no reports of violence. If there were reports of violence, I have no doubt that the government

00:14:45.220 funded media, which is not just the CDC, but also, uh, the national post, the golden mail, uh, global news,

00:14:53.380 uh, every government funded media outlet would be publicizing the violence. If there was violence,

00:15:01.060 we've seen no violence in three weeks. So this is just a perversion of the law to, for the federal

00:15:07.380 government to pretend that there was some, uh, threat of violence. John, do you think that they're

00:15:13.700 using this to justify something? Do you, why, you know, what, what's your thoughts on that? Or do you

00:15:20.900 want to speculate? I, I think what's driving this is that the truckers are a political embarrassment

00:15:29.300 to the federal government. Uh, I suspect that prime minister Trudeau is more strongly committed

00:15:36.580 to keeping in place the, uh, the violations of our charter rights and freedoms by vaccine

00:15:43.060 passports, vaccine mandates, lockdown measures. I think that the, most of the premiers, uh, certainly

00:15:49.060 Jason Kenney in Alberta, uh, even premier Ford in Ontario is now making noises about how,

00:15:54.020 oh, we all hate vaccine passports and we've got to just move on. Uh, we've got premier mole in 0.80

00:16:00.580 Saskatchewan, uh, first out of the gates talking about dropping vaccine passports. So I think you've 0.82

00:16:06.740 got premiers that are more flexible, but I think the prime minister is very strongly committed to the,

00:16:14.020 uh, restrictions on, uh, air travel for people that have not taken the COVID shots.

00:16:21.140 And so the truckers protest is an embarrassment for the prime minister. Uh, he doesn't want to

00:16:26.100 lose face by meeting with them. He doesn't want to lose face by, uh, dropping these mandates,

00:16:33.060 which if the prime minister did that, there's a pretty good chance that most of the truckers would

00:16:36.420 leave. Uh, perhaps, uh, some truckers would stay, you know, insisting on the removal of vaccine

00:16:42.500 passports in every province. I don't know. Uh, but if Trudeau said, we're getting rid of the, 1.00

00:16:48.740 uh, the federal vaccine mandates, uh, I suspect most of these truckers would be out of town, uh,

00:16:56.980 within 24 hours is my guess. He doesn't want to do that. So now there's this whole drama with

00:17:02.900 pretending that we're dealing with something violent when we're not and invoking the, uh, uh,

00:17:08.500 emergency powers. That's what I think is going on.

00:17:11.700 Mm-hmm now I know when we were talking about, uh, some of the, some of the circumstances that

00:17:18.340 would be, that would be needed to bring in the emergencies act. And you had mentioned about the,

00:17:23.460 um, you know, the, the sovereignty, uh, that's a threat to our sovereignty. And, uh, I know that,

00:17:30.020 uh, one of the things I've heard in the, in the explanation is with the guns that were seized by,

00:17:35.940 uh, or seized from a small group that was working independently from the main protesters in Coutts.

00:17:43.860 In fact, uh, I was speaking with, um, a lot of the RCMP on site, as well as a lot of the organizers

00:17:51.780 that were involved in the protest at Coutts, uh, and, and was told repeatedly that the, the main

00:17:59.380 group of protesters that started the, the, um, blockade down in Coutts had no idea who the small

00:18:07.620 band of people were. Had they, they weren't associated with them. They didn't know their names.

00:18:12.420 Uh, but regardless, uh, there was guns seized, uh, from this small group. And now this group has been,

00:18:19.700 you know, I've listened that they have been sort of tied to what they're saying, organized groups with

00:18:26.100 radicalized ideology to overthrow the government. You know, like it, it, it sounds like they're,

00:18:34.980 they're, you know, using, using that as, as a, as an example of why these, uh, this emergency act is

00:18:47.700 necessary at this time. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think the, the federal government is

00:18:53.060 desperately, uh, grasping at straws to try to justify, uh, using the emergencies act and giving

00:19:01.700 the, uh, federal government broad new powers to, to seize funds in, uh, in bank accounts.

00:19:08.260 And we, we can get into that in a minute. So they're desperately looking for justification.

00:19:13.540 Uh, even though the, uh, the CBC and the other government funded media

00:19:17.700 are not, I think they're not conveying accurately what thousands and thousands of videos from Ottawa

00:19:24.260 show is, is a bunch of peaceful truckers that are shoveling snow, picking up garbage,

00:19:29.780 uh, setting up bouncy castles for kids, uh, feeding the homeless, uh, cleaning, uh, cleaning war memorials,

00:19:37.860 et cetera. So I think most people know that the, that this is a peaceful protest.

00:19:42.420 Yes. It's causing some, uh, uh, inconvenience, perhaps even hardship for some people in Ottawa,

00:19:50.020 but it's peaceful. So now the government wants to find, uh, caches of guns so that they can,

00:19:57.460 uh, try and justify the emergency. I'd like to see the evidence. Uh, I'd like to see the details on,

00:20:05.700 you know, where were these guns found, where they found on somebody's private property that,

00:20:10.500 that happened to live close to, uh, where, where the people were protesting, uh, at the border point

00:20:17.620 of entry near Coots and who owned these guns, but were there actually any plans, uh, on the part of

00:20:25.540 anybody to make use of any of these guns? Because even if they found a bunch of guns on somebody's

00:20:30.180 private property close to where the protest was, that doesn't mean the protest is violent. Uh, there's

00:20:36.020 a lot of people in rural Alberta, small town Alberta and the major urban centers. There's a lot of people

00:20:41.860 who happen to own firearms. So if they found some firearms on private property, I'd like to see what

00:20:47.620 the link is to the protests, if any. And furthermore, when they talk about, oh, some dark ideology, I mean,

00:20:55.220 what, what is that? Uh, somebody who disagrees with a prime minister is, uh, is, is going to be, uh,

00:21:01.140 found to be ideologically dangerous. Uh, the absence of details, uh, provided thus far by the federal

00:21:07.380 government speaks volumes. I would agree. And, and speaking of the, the evidence that you said you

00:21:14.740 would want to see, um, I, I have not heard, uh, either way, and perhaps this has been released at

00:21:20.580 this point, but whether any of those guns were, um, illegal, whether they were unregistered, uh, I don't,

00:21:26.740 I don't have those details, uh, as of yet, but I do plan to, to try to get that information.

00:21:33.700 Uh, and so, uh, you know, I, I, I think my last question to you would be as a lawyer, as a lawyer,

00:21:40.260 uh, who has worked, you know, for the JCCF, you are committed to, uh, you know, upholding Canada's

00:21:47.620 constitution and our rights, uh, as, as, as Canadians. What, what are your thoughts on

00:21:56.420 the slippery slope that this brings about in our free country in, in Canada? What,

00:22:05.060 what can you speak to with regard to this emergencies act and what that, what that can

00:22:10.580 bring in the future? Well, dictators always need an enemy. Uh, historically, you know, the, the

00:22:18.020 communists, uh, would take away all your rights and freedoms in order to protect you and save you

00:22:23.860 from capitalist exploitation. Uh, Hitler sees power in part by talking about how scary the communists

00:22:31.380 were and he was going to protect you and save Germany from communism. Uh, every dictator is,

00:22:38.180 always has an enemy that they vilify and no government ever takes away rights and freedoms without, uh,

00:22:45.460 proffering some pretext, some cause of, of some kind. They're always putting forward, uh, some,

00:22:53.940 something that, that sounds like a good reason to take your rights and freedoms away. Um, I've heard

00:23:00.020 from people that lived through, uh, the, uh, Pinochet seizing power in Chile in 1973. Prior to 1973, Chile was a

00:23:09.780 functioning democracy. They had free and fair elections. They had changes in government and

00:23:15.380 they had freedom of the press and they were a free society and a free country. And then all of a sudden

00:23:20.580 in 1973, uh, Pinochet in the military, they seized power and people in Chile were amazed. Like, like,

00:23:27.540 how, how did this happen? Because they were quite confident that they had a strong, solid, functioning

00:23:34.740 democracy. And yet that democracy disappeared and it did not return until the 1990s. So they had 20 years

00:23:42.980 of dictatorship without elections in Chile. And I think in Canada, what's happening right now is

00:23:50.100 terrifying when you have a federal government that is freezing bank accounts, um, without there being

00:23:56.980 any criminal activity in Ottawa. How do we know that? Well, because in the last three weeks, no trucker has been

00:24:03.700 charged or arrested for, for breaking the law. So there's no criminal activity in Ottawa. And yet

00:24:09.620 the government is busy freezing bank accounts by saying that, that, that Canadians that gave money

00:24:15.700 to the freedom convoy, that they were financing criminal activity. So, I mean, what, what is happening

00:24:22.580 here is so ruthless and aggressive that you have to look at these, uh, historical comparisons and you have

00:24:28.820 to start looking at, at people like, like Franco in Spain or Pinochet in Chile or, or any number of

00:24:35.060 dictators when a government is seizing property or even just freezing, uh, a bank accounts without taking

00:24:41.860 the money, uh, without any valid basis for that. That's absolutely terrifying. And that, that, that,

00:24:49.780 that, that the, that we would invoke the emergencies act to crush a peaceful protest, uh, in, in Ottawa.

00:25:00.340 Uh, this, this is absolutely frightening and we are potentially on the verge of, of, of seeing our

00:25:07.220 democracy go further down the drain than what it already has been.

00:25:11.140 Mm-hmm. Well, as mentioned, the MPs are going to be debating this for the next, uh, four days,

00:25:19.220 almost nonstop. They are, uh, scheduled to be, uh, in parliament from 7am till midnight or, uh, until

00:25:27.940 nobody stands up to, to speak in the evening. Uh, and that's going to be debated right through the

00:25:33.700 weekend, uh, through the day on Monday. And again, it looks like the vote is set for, uh, 8pm

00:25:41.140 Eastern standard time on Monday, six o'clock our time. So I think all eyes will be on that vote

00:25:49.140 come Monday. And, uh, I think as Canadians, we need to, we need to hope that our, you know,

00:25:57.140 our government is, is able to avoid what I think you're, you're very right in being concerned about.

00:26:06.020 People should contact their MPs and people that now is a great time also to exercise your charter

00:26:14.660 freedoms. Uh, whether you live in, in Ottawa or Montreal or Toronto or Calgary, uh, regardless of

00:26:20.580 where you are, uh, if there are, if there is a peaceful rally taking place in the city where you

00:26:25.540 live, it would be worthwhile to exercise peacefully our charter rights and freedoms, because I think that

00:26:31.940 the MPs, uh, many of them will be influenced by seeing peaceful protests all across Canada

00:26:40.100 against this abuse of the emergencies act when there is no emergency. And so I would encourage

00:26:47.460 all people to, uh, to protest peacefully and go to peaceful rallies and exercise our charter freedoms of,

00:26:54.180 of, uh, expression association and peaceful assembly.

00:26:57.300 Yeah, we will be, uh, actually putting a story up if it's not up already, but, uh, we will have a story

00:27:03.700 on, uh, the Western standard website about, uh, options for you to participate in peaceful protests

00:27:10.020 and in Calgary, uh, and we're going to sort of dig around and try to find, uh, find as many as we can to,

00:27:17.220 to, to reference for people to get out. And, and as John says, uh, you know, uh, message your MPs,

00:27:23.140 um, uh, you know, communicate your thoughts and feelings as a Canadian citizen, because ultimately

00:27:28.900 these decisions will impact all of us for, uh, many years to come. So, uh, John, I want to thank

00:27:35.540 you for taking the time to sort of walk us through a little deeper into the emergencies act and, uh, and

00:27:42.580 what we could be facing. And again, our eyes will be on that vote come Monday at 8 PM Eastern time.

00:27:49.460 Well, thanks Melanie. Talk to you again.

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Western Standard - February 18, 2022

WATCH： JCCF on Emergencies Act

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