Western Standard - Western Standard Presents： The 2021 Leaders' Debate

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00:09:23.140 you had an option sir you could have said I am NOT going to do it this was

00:09:27.440 just scattering money around to build gazebos and fake lakes the one you

00:09:31.580 bought you can't build you try to open up the treaty you can use everything and

00:09:35.860 don't try to paper over what's happening in people's lives it's still time for a

00:09:39.320 chance you take over the mess that you left us it's not economically disastrous

00:09:43.620 it's a smart economic thing to do and an agreement between Quebec and Canada was

00:09:48.060 always impossible it's very clear live from gatineau quebec this is the 2021 federal leaders debate

00:10:09.500 we're coming to you from the grand hall in the canadian museum of history on the traditional

00:10:15.260 unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg people, a place for Canadians to reflect on the

00:10:21.900 country's past. But tonight, we are looking ahead to the future. Good evening, I'm Shachi Curl. I'm

00:10:28.880 the president of the Angus Reid Institute and tonight I will be your moderator. Let's welcome

00:10:34.460 the party leaders. Justin Trudeau for the Liberal Party, Erin O'Toole for the Conservative Party,

00:10:40.560 Yves-François Blanchet of the Bloc Québécois, Jagmeet Singh of the NDP, and Annamie Paul for the Greens.

00:10:49.340 Welcome, leaders.

00:10:50.880 Thank you. Great to be here.

00:10:52.560 Tonight's event is being produced for the Leaders' Debates Commission by a media partnership,

00:10:59.040 including APTN News, CBC News, CTV News, and Global News.

00:11:04.520 The debate is also offered in 10 other languages, including Cree, Inuktitut, Dene, as well as described video and ASL.

00:11:14.980 20,000 Canadians have weighed in, telling us what they want to hear from the leaders, and five themes have emerged.

00:11:23.480 Leadership and accountability, climate change, reconciliation, affordability, and COVID recovery.

00:11:31.280 Tonight, four undecided journalists, rather four undecided voters and journalists,

00:11:37.300 maybe the journalists are undecided as well, will be putting their questions directly to the leaders.

00:11:43.240 And you leaders, you've agreed to tonight's rules and format.

00:11:46.800 So, before we begin, please answer the questions you're asked.

00:11:53.300 Do not interrupt each other.

00:11:55.420 I don't want to cut you off, but I will if I have to, okay?

00:11:58.580 All right, let's get started.

00:12:05.500 You will each get a different question and you have 45 seconds to answer.

00:12:10.420 You all have a countdown clock.

00:12:12.560 The theme is leadership and accountability.

00:12:15.320 Your speaking order has been determined by draw.

00:12:18.420 And Mr. Singh, you are first.

00:12:20.360 Hi, Mr. Singh.

00:12:21.340 Hi there.

00:12:22.460 Mr. Singh, you are popular and you inspire many Canadians,

00:12:26.860 but your platform is full of big promises.

00:12:31.580 And when it comes to how you'll pay for it all, there's not a lot of details.

00:12:37.100 Given this, how can Canadians know that you are really ready to lead?

00:12:42.780 I really appreciate the question and I want to say good evening to everyone tuning in.

00:12:46.840 There is a serious question that people are asking themselves in this election.

00:12:50.720 They're wondering who's going to pay the price of this pandemic and the recovery.

00:12:55.260 And we do have bold plans about how we can invest in people.

00:12:58.560 But we are the only party with a credible plan that will not put the burden on people,

00:13:04.000 that will not cut the help that they need, unlike Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole,

00:13:08.060 who voted against making the ultra-rich pay their fair share.

00:13:11.000 We believe that billionaires should pay their fair share.

00:13:13.640 We should end the loopholes and the offshore tax havens that mean billions of dollars are lost,

00:13:19.500 that we are not able to invest in people.

00:13:21.620 We want to put the burden on those that are at the very, very top,

00:13:24.480 so we can invest in the solutions that people need,

00:13:27.000 tackling the climate crisis, investing in housing.

00:13:29.280 All right, thank you, Mr. Singh.

00:13:31.120 Next to you, Mr. Trudeau, because you wanted a new mandate,

00:13:35.520 you plunged the country into an election,

00:13:38.380 even as the pandemic spurs thousands of new cases.

00:13:42.400 But over the last 18 months,

00:13:44.060 opposition parties have largely stood with you,

00:13:47.580 putting the nation above politics.

00:13:51.140 Why aren't you doing the same?

00:13:52.860 How can you justify an election at this time?

00:13:57.840 Thank you, Ms. Curl.

00:13:59.000 I think, first of all, I want to thank Canadians for being here tonight,

00:14:02.700 making an important choice, and also, quite frankly,

00:14:05.620 for everything you've done over the past number of months

00:14:08.320 to help get ourselves and our neighbours through this.

00:14:11.740 Tonight, over the next couple of hours,

00:14:13.320 you're going to hear some very, very different, very strong ideas

00:14:16.880 that are radically different about how we're going to move forward

00:14:20.720 through this pandemic to end it how we're going to build back better those decisions are going

00:14:26.380 to be taken by your government now in the coming weeks this fall not a year from now not two years

00:14:32.180 from now could it not have waited a few months mr trudeau i know you want to go harder and faster

00:14:36.980 on vaccinations i know you want to go harder and faster on climate change and you get to choose

00:14:41.560 exactly that in this election all right that's time thank you mr blanchette to you

00:14:46.560 You deny that Quebec has problems with racism, yet you defend legislation such as Bills 96 and 21, which marginalize religious minorities, Anglophones and Allophones.

00:15:00.100 Quebec is recognized as a distinct society, but for those outside the province, please help them understand why your party also supports these discriminatory laws.

00:15:11.440 The question seems to imply the answer you want.

00:15:16.340 Those laws are not about discrimination.

00:15:19.340 They are about the values of Quebec.

00:15:22.220 And yet religious minorities, sir, cannot progress if they wear their religious gear. 1.00

00:15:27.640 Quebec is not recognized as a distinct society.

00:15:31.340 It's been recognized as a nation on June 16th by the Parliament.

00:15:40.080 281 votes said that Quebec is a nation, and everybody here seems to agree with that.

00:15:45.680 No more distinct society, which never had any meeting anyway.

00:15:49.940 Meaning, not meeting.

00:15:51.420 So, again, why the discriminatory laws and your support for it, sir?

00:15:56.020 You may repeat as many times as you want that those are discriminatory laws.

00:15:59.680 We are saying that those are legitimate laws that apply on Quebec territory.

00:16:04.900 And there seems to be people around here who will share this point of view,

00:16:09.260 which is a gain by itself for Quebec.

00:16:11.580 All right. Thank you, Mr. Blanchet.

00:16:14.000 Ms. Paul, to you.

00:16:15.680 For millions of voters, this is the climate change election.

00:16:21.220 But at this critical time, you've been bogged down in internal strife.

00:16:25.800 If your own party doesn't fully support you, how can Canadians trust you to lead through one of the most defining issues of our times?

00:16:37.160 It's an excellent question, and it's an honour to be here tonight on the unceded territories of the Algonquin peoples.

00:16:43.940 uh it has been a very difficult period and do i wish that our party had been further ahead

00:16:50.340 particularly at this moment absolutely do i believe that we have wonderful candidates running

00:16:56.300 all over the country that you should consider voting for absolutely being who i am and in this

00:17:03.160 position has been incredibly hard being here tonight was not an obvious thing i've had to

00:17:08.900 crawl over a lot of broken glass to get here. I'm proud to be here. I'm proud to be the first of my

00:17:14.820 kind and because I am the first of my kind I know that I won't be the last. Thank you Ms. Paul and

00:17:20.940 to you Mr. O'Toole.

00:17:38.900 that will be in charge of a conservative party and we have a plan to get the country back on

00:17:46.740 its feet after a difficult 18 months in this crisis i'm a pro-choice ally to the lgbtq community

00:17:54.180 that comes from my service in the military where i served alongside people from all backgrounds

00:17:59.220 all orientations putting the country first and our platform including a detailed plan on climate

00:18:05.780 change is about making sure we secure the future, jobs, accountability, national leadership on mental

00:18:12.180 health. So is it you, sir, or your caucus that's driving the bus? I am driving the bus to make sure

00:18:16.820 we get this country back on track, and I'm here to defend the rights of all Canadians, women,

00:18:22.580 members of the LGBTQ community, Indigenous Canadians. I want to make sure we all secure

00:18:27.680 a future together. Thank you, Mr. O'Toole. All right, leaders, thank you. It is now time for our

00:18:33.260 first face-to-face debate. Mr. Trudeau, Ms. Paul, you're up. Starting with Mr. Trudeau,

00:18:38.660 based on this question. You call yourself a feminist, but on your watch, sexual misconduct 0.98

00:18:44.420 in Canada's armed forces continues to run rampant. Tell me, why are you allowing these

00:18:50.780 unacceptable conditions to continue? I think we recognize that there are systems and institutions

00:18:56.740 that need to change across the country, and that's why from the very beginning, we stepped up with

00:19:01.900 policies, new policies, stronger policies and processes to support every survivor,

00:19:07.120 everyone who comes forward, because nobody deserves to work in a workplace where they

00:19:12.140 are being discriminated against, where they are being harassed or hassled. We have been

00:19:18.100 unequivocal about that. My leadership has been unequivocal about that. Yes, these problems

00:19:22.720 continue in workplaces across the country, particularly in the military. That's unacceptable,

00:19:27.760 which is why we've taken even stronger measures.

00:19:31.000 It's unsatisfactory to have to say we're relying on process in this.

00:19:35.920 We want to just be able to have easy answers.

00:19:38.140 Ms. Paul, what's your response to that?

00:19:39.800 But this is not an issue with easy answers.

00:19:40.720 You have to fall back on process.

00:19:43.060 I have said before and I'll say again tonight that I do not believe that Mr. Trudeau is a real feminist. 0.79

00:19:48.900 A feminist doesn't continue to push strong women out of his party when they are just seeking to serve. 1.00

00:19:56.180 and I will say their names tonight and thank them.

00:19:59.540 Thank you, Jane Philpott.

00:20:01.160 Thank you, Jody Wilson-Raybould.

00:20:03.640 Thank you, Selena Cesar Chavinez.

00:20:05.680 And I'm here tonight thanks to the work that you have done.

00:20:09.000 I believe that if there were more women on this platform tonight 1.00

00:20:12.420 and in previous years, that we, in fact,

00:20:14.820 would have better laws in our military. 0.59

00:20:18.740 We would have childcare at this point.

00:20:21.620 We would have many of the things that we need.

00:20:23.440 I am the only woman other than Elizabeth May to be on this platform in the last 18 years.

00:20:29.980 The Liberal Party has never had a woman lead it.

00:20:32.820 I think it's time for the party to examine its priorities.

00:20:35.060 I think, Ms. Paul, you'll perhaps understand that I won't take lessons on caucus management from you.

00:20:38.940 I think what I will keep focused on is making sure that our first woman finance minister has moved forward on child care.

00:20:48.700 Mr. Trudeau, I'm sorry, that's time. We have to move on.

00:20:51.620 Mr. Blanchet, Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Singh, this next topic is for you to debate.

00:20:57.800 Canada's transition to a green economy depends on pipelines.

00:21:02.380 At a time when Ontario and Quebec face uncertain energy supply over line five,

00:21:08.820 this country cannot extract nor distribute oil domestically.

00:21:14.520 Our theme is leadership.

00:21:15.940 Tell me, which one of you is best to lead on these complex issues?

00:21:21.120 Mr. Blanchet, per the draw, you begin.

00:21:23.600 I'm not very much interested in leading Canada.

00:21:26.260 However, I am very much interested in making sure that Quebec is entitled to its own vision for the future.

00:21:35.100 You know, in Quebec, we do not have energy issues that much because we are lucky.

00:21:39.480 We are lucky.

00:21:40.040 It's a piece of luck that we can produce green energy in a large amount.

00:21:44.680 But the whole planet cannot afford this idea, this very Canadian idea, this very conservative idea,

00:21:51.420 and as far as I know, this very liberal idea that we have to produce more oil, export more oil,

00:21:57.380 believing that the money from it will reduce gas emission, which won't happen.

00:22:02.460 All Canadian families deserve an economic recovery, including families in Western Canada that feel left out after six years of Mr. Trudeau.

00:22:10.380 When it comes to leadership, our natural resources sector is a leader in environmental, social governance.

00:22:16.960 Anytime Canadian resources are removed from the global supply chain, you know who fills that gap?

00:22:22.440 Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Russia.

00:22:24.920 All of these organizations and companies are getting their emissions down.

00:22:29.160 Let's get emissions down and Canadian resources to market so that we can have jobs opportunity and fight climate change.

00:22:35.820 When it comes to leadership on fighting this essential crisis, one of the biggest crises we're up against,

00:22:43.420 we've got a difficult choice for Canadians.

00:22:45.580 You've got on one side someone who doesn't believe there's a crisis,

00:22:49.000 and then on the other you've got Mr. Trudeau who doesn't act like there's a crisis.

00:22:52.420 And what it's going to take is real leadership because the solutions are there.

00:22:55.800 We can invest in green energy, clean energy.

00:22:58.520 We can invest in renewable energy.

00:22:59.780 Mr. Trudeau doesn't give up on tens of thousands of workers across the country.

00:23:02.420 We'll never give up on workers.

00:23:03.460 We're workers that are working hard for their families.

00:23:05.300 So we can get our resources to market.

00:23:07.320 Okay, one at a time, gentlemen.

00:23:09.800 Mr. O'Toole, then back to you, Mr. Singh.

00:23:11.320 I want to see Canadians get back to work in all sectors and in all regions.

00:23:15.940 And I'm proud of what we produce in our country,

00:23:18.240 whether it's our resources or the resources in the heads of our young people.

00:23:21.560 We need to get emissions down and get our energy to market.

00:23:25.920 These workers need a plan that's going to create jobs for the future. 0.99

00:23:28.680 And that's a responsibility of government.

00:23:30.260 We've seen six years of Mr. Trudeau, and workers can't afford another four years.

00:23:34.180 What we need to do is invest in a diversified economy, clean energy.

00:23:38.740 We need to electrify transportation.

00:23:40.440 We need to invest in retrofitting homes and buildings.

00:23:42.960 We need to create good jobs for workers now.

00:23:45.540 But we need an economic recovery in all sectors that have failed workers.

00:23:50.100 Last word to you, Mr. Blanchet.

00:23:51.980 Last word to you, sir.

00:23:53.000 Leadership is not only saying the words.

00:23:55.380 It's proposing solutions, admitting a problem which they're not doing.

00:24:00.720 All right, thank you.

00:24:01.780 my next question is for all of you. We've had some encouraging news out of Kabul overnight with the

00:24:09.520 escape of 43 Canadians. That said, thousands of people who helped Canada during Canada's mission

00:24:17.120 in Afghanistan have been left behind in their hour of need, and it is unknown if we will ever

00:24:23.620 get them all out. To each of you, what would you have done differently, Mr. O'Toole, per the draw

00:24:30.380 you began. Canada should never leave behind people that are at risk because they helped us.

00:24:36.440 When Afghanistan was falling, there were 1,200 Canadians and hundreds more translators and

00:24:41.020 others waiting for help from Canada. What did Mr. Trudeau do? You called an election, sir. You put

00:24:46.860 your own political interests ahead of the well-being of thousands of people. Leadership

00:24:51.660 is about putting others first, not yourself. Mr. Trudeau, you should not have called this

00:24:57.320 election you should have gotten the job done in afghanistan mr otul hold on this is not open debate

00:25:02.940 leaders this is this is uh a situation where we're asking a question to each of you

00:25:08.160 no problem mr trio i'm i'm trying to keep track i would like him miss curl because he called an

00:25:13.200 election in the fourth wave of a pandemic with fires in british columbia and with unfinished

00:25:18.080 business in afghanistan all right thank you mr otul i'm going to give the opportunity next per

00:25:23.280 the draw to Mr. Singh. You guys will have tons of time to debate, so hang tight. Mr. Singh.

00:25:29.080 Sadly, what's happened in Afghanistan is a tragedy that was something we knew about. We knew about

00:25:36.140 the withdrawal date. We knew from President Biden what that date would be. And sadly, I agree with

00:25:41.440 Mr. O'Toole on this one point that it was a bad decision to call an election while this crisis

00:25:47.100 was going on, particularly because we've got allies on the ground that put their lives at risk

00:25:51.780 to support our Canadian forces who are now looking at peril for their lives

00:25:56.520 and may never get out of Afghanistan.

00:25:58.380 We know the impact on women and girls in Afghanistan.

00:26:01.280 It's heartbreaking, and it could have been avoided.

00:26:03.960 Veterans had told Mr. Trudeau and his government for a long time

00:26:07.800 that the current approach was not working, those calls were not heeded,

00:26:11.640 and as a result, we're in this really horrible situation.

00:26:14.040 Thank you, Mr. Singh.

00:26:15.340 Thank you, Mr. Singh. Mr. Blanchett.

00:26:16.840 First, good news.

00:26:17.640 I seem to understand from what I read a few hours ago that Kabul airport is now being open

00:26:22.440 for some people to get out of the country, which is very good news. This should have been worked 0.97

00:26:28.060 a long, long time ago. I agree with Mr. O'Toole that Mr. O'Toole should have put

00:26:33.360 those people's interest before his own. However, the problem is that Canada has failed many times

00:26:39.380 to create some strong partnerships with other countries in order to be stronger facing a

00:26:45.880 situation like Afghanistan now, because by itself, we must admit Canada is not a world power.

00:26:52.720 Thank you, Mr. Blanchett. Mr. Trudeau, I invite you to respond now.

00:26:56.540 Thank you, Ms. Curl. It's unfortunate to hear the members, the leaders on this stage talking down

00:27:03.120 the incredible work that our Canadian Armed Forces, that our diplomats, that our consular

00:27:08.320 officials did from the beginning of the summer to ensure that as of the very beginning of August,

00:27:14.260 Well before this election, we were getting flights out of Afghanistan.

00:27:18.100 We got 3,700 people out of Afghanistan.

00:27:21.280 And over the past weeks, we've been working with the Qataris, for example,

00:27:25.260 on exactly that good news that we've seen of more people, more Canadians getting out of Afghanistan.

00:27:30.860 We work closely with our allies because we know Canadians sacrificed in Afghanistan for a better future.

00:27:36.760 We need to stand by the people who helped us, who helped themselves.

00:27:40.220 and we will with even more people coming to Canada in the coming months.

00:27:44.680 All right, Mr. Trudeau. Ms. Paul.

00:27:46.760 As a former diplomat and with a husband who provided advice on the peace negotiations in Afghanistan,

00:27:55.300 we were hearing the stories all the time in the months leading up that this was foreseeable.

00:28:01.120 And so it seems like we got better information on our smartphones

00:28:03.880 than Mr. Trudeau got from our entire intelligence service based on what he's saying.

00:28:08.560 The thing is that when people count on you, when you make a promise to them,

00:28:14.020 then you do it so that people can count on Canada's word.

00:28:17.680 When someone is your partner, you go with them, you go for them, or you don't amount to much.

00:28:22.800 And so leaving behind people in Afghanistan, rocking up to Rideau Hall and calling an election under these circumstances was not the right thing to do.

00:28:30.720 And to borrow a line from Mr. Singh from 2019, Mr. Tudoka, just say, hey, man, I messed up.

00:28:35.240 All right, Ms. Paul, thank you very much.

00:28:37.440 Thank you all. And now it is our time for a first attempt at open debate.

00:28:43.400 Jumping off of this question, Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor have been in Chinese prisons for 1004 days.

00:28:53.820 The next prime minister has key decisions to make about our already tense relationship with China,

00:29:00.420 such as telecommunications security and foreign investment.

00:29:03.620 Some say this all comes down to a trade-off between Canada's economic growth and recognition of human rights.

00:29:10.620 I'd like to know where you all stand. I'm sure you want to exchange on that.

00:29:14.320 Mr. Singh, per the draw you begin, leaders, you may jump in.

00:29:17.900 Thank you very much.

00:29:19.500 We know that we can't imagine what it is for Mr. Spavor and Mr. Kovrig to be going through a thousand plus days in a prison without access to human rights.

00:29:29.820 I can't imagine what their friends and their families are going through right now.

00:29:33.100 All I know is we have to do everything possible to secure the release of these two Canadians.

00:29:37.960 We need to work with our allies, apply pressure, and make sure that we return these Canadians home. 1.00

00:29:42.780 That's what we've got to do.

00:29:44.140 And that's exactly what we've been doing.

00:29:46.180 Over the past three years, we have worked with international allies to put pressure on China in every single one of their meetings.

00:29:52.540 We've worked closely with the United States.

00:29:54.760 We at the G7 a few weeks ago worked with the international community to make sure we're moving forward on challenging China where necessary and human rights, competing with them economically where we need to and holding them to account on the rule of law as a global community.

00:30:10.960 And Canada's voice has been very strong on that.

00:30:14.320 Canada's voice has been absent, Mr. Trudeau.

00:30:16.780 We have not worked with our allies on Huawei.

00:30:19.560 We have not stood up for the 300,000 Canadians in Hong Kong. 0.94

00:30:23.640 We've not fought for the two Michaels and put pressure on the communist regime.

00:30:28.900 We have not stood up for human rights.

00:30:30.660 Sir, you did not show up for a vote declaring a genocide towards the Uyghur people.

00:30:34.920 You didn't show up.

00:30:36.440 Canada is the country that was leading the fight against apartheid.

00:30:40.160 We created the UN Human Rights Code.

00:30:43.560 We should be leaders for our values, sir.

00:30:46.460 And you've let the Michaels down, and we have to get serious with China. 0.96

00:30:49.980 If you want to let the Michaels and get the Michaels home, you do not simply lob tomatoes across the Pacific.

00:30:56.820 That is what Mr. Harper tried for a number of years and didn't get anywhere.

00:31:00.260 You need to engage in a sophisticated way with our allies every step of the way.

00:31:05.040 You have to take the same position on Huawei.

00:31:06.800 And that's exactly what we have done every step of the time.

00:31:10.080 On cyber security, Mr. Trudeau, we are out of step and our allies are wondering where Canada's gone.

00:31:16.800 You started as Prime Minister saying you admired China.

00:31:19.340 i could uh i'm coming to you miss paul just a second i want to get to mr singh and then to you

00:31:25.020 miss paul i appreciate thank you very much uh the opportunity i want to also talk we're talking

00:31:28.700 about leadership and accountability and in this pandemic one of the moments i think of leadership

00:31:32.540 that has been a failure is the fact that uh when we talk about leadership it means finding solutions

00:31:37.820 and in our long-term care homes here in canada we saw the worst conditions we're going to have

00:31:43.420 time to chat with that later the topic is china human rights and economic growth to you miss paul

00:31:49.260 Yes, and this is an area where certainly lines are being redrawn all across the world.

00:31:55.520 And the main thing that Canada is going to have going forward in terms of currency is its word.

00:32:02.200 When we make a promise, we have to keep those promises.

00:32:05.700 That's how when we need help, we get it.

00:32:08.180 You know, my mom grew up on a farm in a small community,

00:32:10.900 and she learned very young and taught us that you have to give your word to your neighbors

00:32:15.100 and they have to be able to count on it so that when you need help, they're there for you.

00:32:19.260 And so when we don't show up when we're asked for vaccines from COVAX and then we take vaccines from COVAX, when the Uyghur ask us for help to declare a genocide and we don't do that, when we don't show up on the climate by setting targets that are ambitious but at the same time in line with our international partners and do our fair share, then our word doesn't count for much and then it makes it very hard for us to help people like the Michaels when they need us the most.

00:32:46.300 Mr. Blanchet, did you want to get in on this?

00:32:47.800 Curing tomatoes might not be the solution,

00:32:50.480 but I would submit humbly that doing nothing might not be the solution either.

00:32:55.160 The minister of Trader's record on human rights is not perfect.

00:32:58.620 We might name the two Michaels.

00:33:00.320 We might name Weigur and Xinjiang.

00:33:02.660 We might name Taiwan, Hong Kong.

00:33:04.600 We might name Catalonia and Mr. Puigdemont.

00:33:07.160 We might name the worst of all.

00:33:09.300 Mr. Blanchet?

00:33:09.680 Raif Badawi being still held in Saudi Arabia because Canada wants to sell weapons and military supply to Saudi Arabia.

00:33:18.020 Mr. Blanchet.

00:33:19.340 Mr. Blanchet.

00:33:20.520 Okay, okay, gentlemen, one at a time.

00:33:24.640 The Parliament voted unanimously to give citizenship to Raif Badawi.

00:33:28.780 Nothing has been done afterward.

00:33:30.740 All right.

00:33:31.980 Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Singh.

00:33:35.540 Mr. Blanchet is correct.

00:33:37.460 Canada is needed back on the world stage.

00:33:39.360 We may be smaller than China with respect to population and economy,

00:33:43.140 but we are a giant when it comes to our commitments to human rights,

00:33:46.740 to dignity, and to the rule of law.

00:33:48.220 And we have to start working with our allies

00:33:50.020 to take a more serious approach for human rights,

00:33:53.140 standing up for our workers on fair trade,

00:33:55.560 and making sure that our voice is a principled one on the world stage again.

00:33:59.160 The problem with Mr. O'Toole and his principles is

00:34:02.260 he says all the right-sounding things,

00:34:04.360 and he's working on reassuring everyone that he's right there as a strong leader.

00:34:07.420 but he can't convince his candidates to get vaccinated he can't convince his MPs all right

00:34:13.380 let's keep the theme Mr. Singh you wanted to get in I'm giving the last word I'm giving the last

00:34:18.380 word to Mr. Singh Mr. Trudeau please to you Mr. Singh leadership means standing up it means

00:34:23.140 standing up for the Uyghur in China means standing up to defend people around the world and also

00:34:27.340 means showing leadership when it comes to fighting the climate crisis we've got the worst record

00:34:31.400 under Mr. Trudeau in the G7 so that's not leadership certainly not all right thank you

00:34:35.660 very much. Thank you, leaders. We are now moving on to our next theme, which is climate change.

00:34:45.640 All right, this time we're starting with a question from Trevor McMullen. He is a high

00:34:50.540 school teacher in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia. He's standing by. Trevor, what's your question?

00:34:58.920 Hey, good evening. As leader, what immediate actions would you take to make green technology

00:35:04.620 more accessible and affordable so that everyday Canadians don't have to bear the financial burden

00:35:09.180 of being environmentally ethical. All right thank you Trevor. Leaders you've heard Trevor's question

00:35:16.300 Mr. Ms. Paul I apologize Ms. Paul you're going first. Thank you so much for that question and

00:35:22.400 you know Trevor that's exactly where your head should be at that's where all of our heads should

00:35:26.360 be at. How can we use this opportunity to seize the moment to create a green economy? How can

00:35:34.600 we incentivize every single person in Canada, every company, and every enterprise to adopt

00:35:40.640 green technologies? How can we become a global leader? And so absolutely, if you look at our

00:35:45.460 platform, you will see that we propose incentives all the way from buying electric cars, new and

00:35:50.840 used, to retrofitting homes, you know, to all of these items that will help make life easier for

00:35:57.840 you and help for you to do your part. But this is a national and international issue. We need

00:36:03.440 national leadership on it and we need it across party lines. Thank you, Ms. Paul. Mr. Singh.

00:36:08.320 Thank you. Thank you, Trevor. I really appreciate the question. And I'm sure you speak to a lot of

00:36:12.320 young people as a teacher and are seeing the fear in their eyes, the worry and the desperation that

00:36:17.420 young people have because they don't know what type of future they're going to inherit. And

00:36:21.520 they're worried about the impacts of the climate crisis because it's hurting us now and it's only

00:36:25.880 going to get worse if we don't do anything about it. And to invest in that future, we need to make

00:36:30.080 choices. And right now, we look at the choices Mr. Trudeau has made over the past six years.

00:36:34.740 He has promised to end fossil fuel subsidies, but instead of ending them, he has increased them

00:36:39.960 to $900 million per year. That is money we could spend on investing in clean technology,

00:36:47.000 in making it easier for people to access that technology and to do our part to fight the

00:36:52.360 climate crisis. So it's a matter of choices. We can't afford another four years of Mr. Trudeau's

00:36:56.280 choices. Thank you Mr. Singh. To you Mr. O'Toole. Thank you for the question Trevor. I was raised by

00:37:02.540 two strong women who were teachers and they told me to be straight up. This is an area where the

00:37:07.140 Conservatives we had to win back some trust. We hadn't met the expectations of Canadians on climate

00:37:11.780 change. It's an important issue for me as a father of a high schooler and we talk about it all the

00:37:17.240 time. That's why in April long before the election I put out a substantial package pricing carbon to

00:37:24.120 meet our Paris targets and what's interesting our low carbon savings

00:37:28.080 account will allow people to actually make green choices to lower their carbon

00:37:32.800 footprint this approach is innovative because it would allow all Canadians to

00:37:36.180 know what their carbon footprint is and make those innovative investments to

00:37:40.320 lower it I think we all have a role to play and our plan is detailed and we'll

00:37:44.580 deliver on it Mr Blanchet thank you to be with us sir I hope you appreciate a

00:37:49.920 little bit blunt answers first you cap you put a ceiling on any production of

00:37:56.060 oil and gas you take all the money that the federal government is placing into

00:38:01.380 that industry even more by the liberals than the conservatives before and you

00:38:05.960 put that into green energy and you take the money for Trans Mountain and you

00:38:10.420 give it to Alberta for Alberta to initiate its own transition toward a

00:38:15.420 greener economy. This is the way to do things because if we don't do that and

00:38:19.860 keep dreaming about reducing gas emission while increasing production we

00:38:25.620 will never get there. Thank you Mr. Blanchet. Mr. Trudeau. Thank you Trevor for

00:38:31.800 your question. From one teacher to another I know that you need to ground

00:38:36.240 your decisions and what you share with your students in science and all these

00:38:40.380 leaders on here have various claims about what their climate change plan is

00:38:44.640 going to do unfortunately if you look at what the experts and the climate

00:38:48.600 scientists and the economists have said we are the ones with the strongest plan

00:38:52.620 to fight climate change and how to answer your question specifically how to

00:38:56.040 make it more affordable for Canadians well the first thing we did on that was

00:38:59.580 bring in a national price on pollution that incentivizes businesses to go

00:39:04.260 cleaner at the same time as it puts more money in families pockets we are going to

00:39:09.060 put a cap on oil sands and oil and gas emissions and decline it until net zero

00:39:13.980 and create those opportunities and investments that are going to make it more affordable for you and your students for many years to come.

00:39:20.860 Thank you, Mr. Trudeau. Thank you, Trevor. Have a good evening.

00:39:24.600 I'm turning it back to the leaders. It is time for more debate.

00:39:28.900 The draw has Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole facing off.

00:39:32.800 Your topic is climate change.

00:39:34.900 Even today, one in four Canadians don't believe that climate change is caused by human activity.

00:39:43.020 How can we achieve real progress when so many people are still debating the fundamentals?

00:39:50.760 Mr. O'Toole, you begin.

00:39:52.600 Climate change is a real threat not only to Canada and to the world.

00:39:56.660 That's why we have to take a serious plan to tackle it.

00:39:59.380 That's why, as I said, we put our plan out in April because we had to restore some trust on this issue

00:40:05.080 to make sure we can show Canadians we can get emissions down and get the economy working again.

00:40:10.540 That is key.

00:40:11.460 We have a plan to meet our Paris targets, but minimize the impact on jobs and investment.

00:40:17.360 We're also going to make major investments in electric vehicles, in the hydrogen economy, small modular reactors.

00:40:25.280 There is so much we can do to get our emissions down, but grow a strong economy, because without a strong economy, we can't tackle climate change.

00:40:32.820 We can't tackle the issues of today.

00:40:34.200 The reality that Mr. O'Toole has never understood is you can't have a strong economy unless you tackle climate change.

00:40:41.340 And you ask about how we're going to convince the quarter of Canadians who still don't think climate change is real.

00:40:46.280 Well, Mr. O'Toole can't even convince his party that climate change is real because they voted against that.

00:40:51.260 And that's perhaps why his plan is so weak.

00:40:53.780 His plan is to go back to the Harper targets, to the Harper approach on fighting climate change, which doesn't work.

00:40:59.320 His costed platform, which he just put out last night, cuts $2 billion from climate investments and from things.

00:41:07.120 And for our friends in B.C., Mr. O'Toole has proposed to restore the northern gateway pipeline to the Great Bear Forest and the tanker bank.

00:41:19.840 Mr. O'Toole always forgets one fact.

00:41:22.340 He has never made a target for climate change.

00:41:25.480 He has great ambition.

00:41:26.820 That's part of the reason we're in an election in a pandemic is his ambition.

00:41:30.320 He doesn't have achievement.

00:41:32.120 He never meets his target.

00:41:33.300 The target is in 2030, so it's actually quite difficult to meet our countries nine years away,

00:41:38.680 except for the fact that right now we are on track to be our target.

00:41:41.060 Gentlemen, we have to wrap this segment.

00:41:43.260 Never meet the target, Mr. Trudeau.

00:41:44.620 All right, we are moving on.

00:41:46.080 We are moving on, leaders.

00:41:47.880 Next up is Mr. Singh, Mr. Blanchett, and Ms. Paul.

00:41:52.080 I'd like each of you to describe how you'll implement a national approach

00:41:56.100 that best recognizes the significant regional differences involved in fighting climate change.

00:42:02.380 you begin. Mr. Singh, you may jump in one at a time, please. Of course. Well, here's the thing.

00:42:08.600 We just heard Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Trudeau argue about who's worse. And honestly, it's a tough

00:42:14.200 question to answer. Let me tell you, you're not stuck with these two. Better is possible. We can

00:42:20.120 invest in a clean economy. We can end fossil fuel subsidies. We can make sure we're creating clean

00:42:26.440 transportation. And we can invest in provinces and territories to make sure they have the resources

00:42:31.500 is necessary to fight the climate crisis i'm hopeful i'm optimistic i'm going to be a dad soon

00:42:36.660 and i want to make sure my my child grows up into a future that has the same opportunities that i had

00:42:42.280 that has a clean air clean water a clean place to live i want to make sure that that's far as far as

00:42:47.800 i understand it it is not a national or even less original issue it is a planetary issue

00:42:54.700 and it has to be tackled by everybody at once but i would be glad to give some of my precious time

00:43:03.360 to mr otul because a week ago a little more than that he said in french that he did not want anymore

00:43:09.320 to have a pipeline to go through quebec that was quite a statement he said that in french no more

00:43:15.240 pipeline through quebec i want to hear that in english tonight please please well mr hold on

00:43:22.360 Hold on, this segment is quite frankly, this on the climate, this sort of approach is going to get us nowhere, and I mean, but nowhere.

00:43:35.560 It is, and the question was an excellent one.

00:43:37.880 This is a global issue.

00:43:40.280 This is a national issue.

00:43:41.520 This is a nonpartisan issue, and we have got to be able to come together across party lines.

00:43:46.700 I said that I was available for a debate just on the climate because it's that important.

00:43:51.820 and we've invited many times all of the parties to join us

00:43:55.660 in a joint cabinet, a cross-party cabinet,

00:43:59.300 to deal with this the way that we dealt with the pandemic.

00:44:02.060 Together, people were so inspired to see these leaders

00:44:05.120 come together in the early days of the pandemic.

00:44:07.620 We have got to bring that same approach here.

00:44:09.980 Let's come together because that's what's needed.

00:44:12.820 Thank you very much. I absolutely agree.

00:44:14.340 We do need to come together.

00:44:15.720 I can lay out what we shouldn't do and what we need to do.

00:44:18.540 What we shouldn't do is what Mr. Trudeau did.

00:44:20.300 Set targets and missed them.

00:44:21.820 We shouldn't promise to end fossil fuel subsidies and then increase them.

00:44:25.260 We shouldn't put a price on pollution and then exempt the biggest polluters.

00:44:28.800 What we need to do is end those fossil fuel subsidies,

00:44:32.080 invest in provinces and territories with infrastructure that's going to help us fight the climate crisis.

00:44:38.100 With the greatest of respect to Mr. Singh, we have been making this invitation for years

00:44:47.980 and it has never been accepted by the NDP or any other party.

00:44:52.140 All right, we have to wrap this section now, leaders.

00:44:55.580 It is time for me, with great pleasure,

00:44:57.600 to welcome Mercedes Stevenson of Global News.

00:45:00.720 She is joining us now and she's going to be asking each of you

00:45:03.880 a direct question on climate change.

00:45:06.740 This round starts with Mr. Trudeau.

00:45:08.240 Hi, Mercedes.

00:45:09.180 Hi, thank you so much for having me.

00:45:10.860 Hello, candidates.

00:45:11.700 It's a pleasure to have the opportunity to ask you

00:45:14.260 about a question that is on a lot of Canadians' minds,

00:45:16.500 the question of climate change. Mr. Trudeau, starting with you. On your watch, Canada's

00:45:21.760 greenhouse gas emissions have gone up every year since 2016, giving this country the worst

00:45:27.540 emissions reduction record in the G7. According to the most recent data from your government,

00:45:33.600 Canada's emissions in 2019 were just as high as they were 15 years ago. Environmentalists say

00:45:40.300 that your performance is insufficient. If you're so serious about climate change, why are Canada's

00:45:45.740 emissions still going up? We inherited a government from conservatives that did not

00:45:53.060 believe in the fight against climate change, and we had a lot of catching up to do. But what we

00:45:56.440 were able to do in six years is bring in national price on pollution, ban single-use plastics,

00:46:02.500 move forward in protecting more of our coasts and oceans and rivers than any government in history,

00:46:07.360 and we are right now on track to exceeding those 20, 30 targets set at the beginning at Paris

00:46:15.340 down to 36% and we've gone even further with that with a concrete plan that the experts have said

00:46:22.420 is the only one that can achieve a 40% reduction. Which they say you're unlikely to meet. That is

00:46:26.900 what we're dealing with. Okay Mr. Trudeau. Mr. Blanchet. Madam. Your party often criticizes the

00:46:34.100 oil and gas industry in Canada's western provinces. You've said that you would block pipelines trying

00:46:39.740 to go through Quebec. While you were the environment minister though you allowed oil

00:46:43.700 exploration and carbon intensive projects without environmental assessment so why the double standard

00:46:49.780 and what do you say to canadians who feel that you're blocking their prosperity there were three

00:46:55.460 issues that have been raised since i've been into this election first one is having reversed

00:47:01.620 the nine b line of enbridge which has been reversed a few years sooner without any evaluation or

00:47:09.460 anything. Second one is a project in Bédéchaleur, which already had been

00:47:15.520 submitted to an evaluation, an environmental evaluation. And the other

00:47:20.380 one was to have an environmental, I will come to that, evaluation

00:47:26.700 after the exploration. This is all a build-up made by the previously

00:47:32.960 environmentalist Sylvain Guilbault from the Parti Liberale, which the Prime

00:47:37.020 minister did not even know about when he attacked me with it. My record is also I've been having

00:47:42.800 signed the carbon market with California which is still considered the best way to tackle the gas

00:47:51.200 emission through incentives and tariffs around the world at least North America. That is time

00:47:59.320 Mercedes your next question. Mr. O'Toole you're next. Under your plan Canada would abandon its

00:48:05.660 current climate target. Instead, you would settle for a weaker one. In fact, it's one set six years

00:48:11.400 ago by Stephen Harper. World leaders are meeting this fall to ratchet up their commitments on

00:48:16.800 climate change on the global stage, yet you would walk ours back. You've said that climate change

00:48:22.200 is real and you've endorsed carbon pricing, but your target is the lowest of all of the major

00:48:27.780 parties who are here tonight. Why should Canadians settle for your plan and a plan that would take

00:48:33.500 our targets back in time? Because Canadians deserve to have a plan and leadership to make

00:48:39.180 the targets. Mr. Trudeau went to Paris. The targets I'm talking about making are the ones

00:48:44.660 he signed on to and then for six years did not make them. He likes to blame everyone else but

00:48:51.100 himself for action. So what we did, because as I said Mercedes, we have to build trust on this

00:48:56.020 issue, we went out and worked with the top consultancy in the country to come up with a plan

00:49:00.480 to price carbon to get our emissions down to meet Paris but to also get people back to work

00:49:06.220 after COVID-19 with half trillion dollars worth of debt put on by Mr. Trudeau with a cost of living

00:49:12.400 crisis we also need to have a strong economy to get our emissions down we will make our emission

00:49:18.260 targets and I think it's important for Canada to have a plan to meet what it signs on to internationally

00:49:24.100 Ms. Paul of the Green Party. Obviously, environment, a big focus in your plan,

00:49:30.220 calls for a 60% reduction in Canada's emissions by the year 2030. Other countries that are making

00:49:36.160 that commitment don't face the same challenges that we do here in Canada. We live in a cold,

00:49:41.360 northern, sprawling country, and our economy still relies on resource extraction, much of which

00:49:47.540 you've said you would shut down completely in your platform. How would you offset the economic harm

00:49:52.860 that would result from meeting such an aggressive target?

00:49:56.320 Thanks for the question.

00:49:57.400 And first, let me say that when I think about our future

00:50:00.420 and I think about the future of energy,

00:50:02.900 Canada will remain an energy superpower,

00:50:05.560 but we will be a renewable energy superpower.

00:50:08.160 And I think about my brother who was a roughneck

00:50:10.660 out on the oil patch until the bust during the pandemic.

00:50:14.980 And I think about his future.

00:50:16.380 And I know that we have got to diversify our economy.

00:50:19.720 But I tell the people of Canada today

00:50:21.620 that what happens next is really up to you we can keep moving towards a mirage and that is what these

00:50:27.860 promises are a mirage that's just out there in the distance that we never arrive at or you can send

00:50:33.300 people back to ottawa from every single party who are committed to working together across party

00:50:39.140 lines on the greatest existential challenge of our time and seizing the opportunity of a truly green

00:50:45.380 recovery. Mr. Singh, you accuse the Trudeau government of being all talk and no action when

00:50:53.160 it comes to climate change, and yet you won't even give Canadians a straight answer on whether

00:50:57.620 or not you would cancel the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion. You've had years as NDP

00:51:02.760 leader to develop a climate plan. Your platform has lots of big ideas and big targets, but almost

00:51:08.680 no details on how you would get there. Don't you owe Canadians a clear answer on your climate

00:51:14.260 roadmap and will you provide one tonight absolutely and i'm honored to do so we've got a bold plan

00:51:19.700 that's going to take a lot of courage that requires lots of investment because we know

00:51:23.940 how serious this crisis is and we know what we're up against unlike mr trudeau we're not going to

00:51:28.660 blame previous governments we know that in power we have the power to make a change and if we vote

00:51:34.580 for the same things we're going to get the same results so i want canadians to know you have a

00:51:38.180 choice we are committed to ending sir we'll lay some of it out one of it is to end fossil fuel

00:51:43.220 subsidies, use that to invest in clean energy. We would make sure we prioritize investing in

00:51:48.820 electrified transportation. We would invest in retrofitting homes and buildings to reduce our

00:51:53.400 emissions. There is so much that we can do. We are confident we can do it. But there is a cost

00:51:58.440 if we continue down the same path of conservative or liberals who don't take this seriously. You

00:52:03.780 have a choice. All right. Thank you. Now it is time for open debate. Mercedes is going to keep

00:52:12.160 you leaders on theme. I'm going to keep you on time and make sure everyone has a chance to be

00:52:16.780 heard. Ms. Paul, we're starting with you. Back to you, Mercedes. Thank you. Canadians want their

00:52:23.840 government to fight climate change, but they also worry about the cost for their families,

00:52:28.980 and we know there will be a cost to this. Why should Canadians trust your party to see us

00:52:35.060 through this? There is a global green rush going on now to create the competitive green economy

00:52:43.640 of the future. What the greens don't want to see is Canada being left behind because that is exactly

00:52:50.720 what's happening. You know I'm sure that the last candle maker was the person that had the market

00:52:56.980 cornered on candle making but if everyone has moved on to LED lights then you're in trouble

00:53:01.640 And so what we want to see is us seizing this opportunity.

00:53:04.940 And Mercedes, to your earlier question, if Denmark and Greenland, other cold countries, can end oil exploration, then certainly we can do it.

00:53:12.280 And if 27 countries in the European Union can come together collaboratively to have an ambitious plan for the climate, then surely with leadership we can do the same here in Canada.

00:53:22.780 I know Canada can do anything that any other country can do.

00:53:26.960 Absolutely. I think we absolutely can.

00:53:28.800 If any type of energy is removed from the global market, Canadian energy, it's replaced by a bad actor country that doesn't have carbon reduction programs, it doesn't have human rights, it doesn't have engagement with Indigenous communities. 0.95

00:53:43.300 Indigenous partnerships in natural resources is huge.

00:53:46.700 So you said the cost?

00:53:48.360 There are tens of thousands of jobs that deserve an economic recovery just as much as anyone else.

00:53:53.720 There are Indigenous partnerships, economic reconciliation, and a move towards a made-in-Canada net zero by 2050.

00:54:02.180 So let's be leaders in getting carbon emissions down and being world leaders on how we have natural resources,

00:54:09.920 whether it's energy, timber, rare earth minerals for EVs.

00:54:14.180 Let's talk about the cost.

00:54:17.900 The cost of inaction is an entire town of Lytton being wiped out by a climate forest fire.

00:54:23.240 The cost of inaction is forest fires and flooding and heat waves that mean Canadians lose their lives.

00:54:29.460 The cost of not acting means a young woman I met in Hamilton who looked me in the eyes and said,

00:54:35.140 what's the point of me pursuing my education?

00:54:37.420 What's the point of me finding a partner or even starting a family when I don't know what type of future I'll live in, let alone my child?

00:54:44.560 That's the cost of inaction.

00:54:46.480 That's the cost of Mr. Trudeau, who had six years to do something about this.

00:54:51.640 It's not two years, it's not a small mandate, six years, and he failed you, and it cost all of us.

00:54:59.400 When we talk about a climate crisis, we have to deal in facts.

00:55:02.980 And one of the facts I need to correct right now that everyone is laid into is we have not missed any of our targets.

00:55:08.480 We are on track to exceeding our targets, and it's important that we are on facts.

00:55:13.240 Secondly, I do have a question for Mr. Singh.

00:55:15.760 We need to talk about science, we need to talk about experts.

00:55:18.760 We agree on that, you and I both.

00:55:20.140 So how is it that the experts that have rated our plan on climate to be an A have rated your plan to be an F?

00:55:27.980 Who are the experts?

00:55:28.980 I rate your track record an F, Mr. Chido. 1.00

00:55:32.200 You've had six years.

00:55:33.060 You don't get to rate.

00:55:33.780 People know.

00:55:34.640 Politicians, experts.

00:55:36.160 Why did the experts give you an F on your climate plan?

00:55:39.480 Let Mr. Singh respond, Mr. Chido. 1.00

00:55:41.040 Let me respond to this.

00:55:42.620 You're talking about the future.

00:55:44.720 Let's talk about right now.

00:55:46.440 You had six years.

00:55:47.640 Why did you get an F on climate?

00:55:50.140 You've got the worst track record in all the G7 after six years.

00:55:55.140 How can people trust you?

00:55:56.620 Mr. Singh, Mr. Singh, Mr. Trudeau, then Ms. Paul, then Mr. Blanchard.

00:56:03.280 I don't accept that, first of all.

00:56:04.400 Time's a waste.

00:56:05.260 No, hold on, Ms. Paul.

00:56:07.220 Mr. Singh, thank you very much, Mr. Trudeau.

00:56:10.320 He cannot explain why his plan is being panned by experts.

00:56:17.380 Every politician up here says we have the best plan.

00:56:20.140 We actually have a record and what Mercedes' question was, how do we make sure it's affordable?

00:56:25.700 We brought in a price on pollution across the country that puts more money back in the pockets in the provinces where it had to be imposed because conservative politicians fought against it every step of the way.

00:56:37.660 Ms. Paul, with the greatest of respect, I think the five PhDs in our shadow cabinet who put together our green recovery policy would disagree with you.

00:56:50.140 the experts but i do want to say more generally that again this is getting us nowhere we have got

00:56:56.920 to be able to come together across party lines not only to face the existential crisis that

00:57:03.840 mr singh described but also to seize the greatest economic opportunity that canada has seen within

00:57:10.040 our lifetimes we are being left behind and if the united states can do it if the european unit can

00:57:15.720 do it i know that we can do it it's about a change in the culture all right thank you miss paul mr

00:57:21.060 blanchette did you want to get in that i'm quite behind everybody else and i have 12 seconds left

00:57:27.160 take i will disagree with the basic statement there's possibility to create more wealth to

00:57:33.660 absorb the cost of the changes that we need we must stop opposing environment and creating wealth

00:57:41.940 it may go together well this is the change that we have to do thank you sir thank you mercedes

00:57:49.520 and now leaders we are moving on to our next theme reconciliation

00:57:54.060 now we are going to our first time voter merrick mcleod in sault st marie he's got a question to

00:58:07.640 all the leaders. Merrick, you're 18 years old. You're a first-time voter. What is your question

00:58:12.500 to the leaders? Go ahead, Merrick. The leaders are listening. Ani Bojo. In the Ojibwe culture, 0.99

00:58:21.940 trust and respect is key to any relationship. Oh, shoot. You got it, Merrick. Keep going.

00:58:30.720 How can I trust and respect the federal government after 150-plus years of lies and abuse to my

00:58:36.140 people and as prime minister what will you do to rebuild the trust between first nations

00:58:41.180 and the federal government thank you merrick leaders you've heard the question how do you

00:58:47.900 respond to merrick mr trudeau you start this round thank you merrick for your question you're

00:58:53.500 absolutely right over the past 150 years canada has failed in its relationship with indigenous

00:59:00.300 peoples people who we should be working with and shared stewardship of the land working with

00:59:05.900 in partnership as we draw from the bounty and the beauty of this land to build a better future for

00:59:11.020 all that is why over the past six years we have stepped up on the path of reconciliation we have

00:59:17.340 ended boil water advisories in 109 different communities we have made sure that tens of

00:59:23.660 thousands of young people get to go to school in better classrooms we continue to move forward on

00:59:29.580 fighting uh the the missing fighting for the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls

00:59:34.380 and ensuring a true partnership as we move forward in respect.

00:59:39.180 Mr. Blanchet.

00:59:41.020 Your question is quite moving.

00:59:43.740 I would say that no one is entitled to tell any nation what to do or what to think,

00:59:54.220 and that every nation has to be recognized as such.

00:59:58.700 either it is a nation of 300 people like there is in quebec or eight million people nation like

01:00:07.100 quebec is it calls for a relationship between equals it calls for a relationship in which

01:00:14.460 nobody tells the other party that they are stronger bigger richer and therefore you will do

01:00:21.980 as you are told even if we say it politely and first you provide clean water to everybody

01:00:29.820 thank you mr blanchette miss paul yes and thank you so much for for the question and and i i

01:00:36.060 understand uh the the anguish in it as well because justice delayed is just justice denied

01:00:41.820 and coming from a diaspora myself where we have been robbed of our culture of our languages of

01:00:47.500 our history i have no idea where my ancestors were born or where they're buried i completely

01:00:52.380 understand how important this is and how frustrating it is not to have seen the action

01:00:56.860 i am tired of being up on these stages without indigenous leadership here to speak for itself 1.00

01:01:02.620 jody wilson raybold mumalak kalak i'm thinking of you right now and when mumalak mizma kakak said

01:01:10.220 that without action that the parliament would be hollow she was right so indigenous sovereignty

01:01:16.940 self-determination nation-to-nation engagement that is my commitment. Mr. O'Toole. Mr. McLeod thank you

01:01:24.460 for the question and the way you phrased it is so important reconciliation is about trust and

01:01:30.220 respect and restoring it after a century and a half of a federal government failing that's why

01:01:36.620 as opposition leader my first question when I rose in the house of commons was on a call to action

01:01:42.060 on reconciliation with respect to Indigenous health we need to build partnerships we need

01:01:47.020 to restore trust and that trust is eroded when you make commitments on safe drinking water on

01:01:53.820 reserve when you make commitments on the calls to action in the truth and reconciliation report

01:01:59.020 and have no plan to fulfill them so I want to build partnerships and have Indigenous leaders

01:02:04.860 have governance over the federal government finally delivering on our commitment to Indigenous

01:02:09.980 peoples mr singh thank you very much merrick thank you for your question how to restore trust

01:02:17.180 how do you restore trust when indigenous communities suffer injustice and it continues

01:02:23.820 in an unbroken line to this very day how do you restore trust when you've got a prime minister

01:02:30.700 that takes a knee one day and then takes indigenous kids to court the next and how

01:02:36.460 do you restore trust in a country as wealthy as ours a g7 nation in the 21st century that still 0.56

01:02:46.300 does not provide clean drinking water to every single indigenous nation it starts by actually

01:02:53.500 walking the path of reconciliation not with the empty words but real action clean water nation

01:02:59.420 to nation and respect okay thank you mr singh merrick did the leaders answer your question

01:03:06.460 all right yeah all right thank you very much miigwetch mrs blanchette and o'toole it is your

01:03:19.140 turn to debate now you've promised more money to search for unmarked graves but so much more

01:03:26.480 needs to be done to achieve meaningful reconciliation mr blanchette you begin tell me

01:03:32.940 How are you better positioned than Mr. O'Toole to restore justice?

01:03:38.920 I am not better positioned than Mr. O'Toole because I believe that this is a relationship between nations.

01:03:45.760 And, you know, your presence and nation, I feel I represent another one.

01:03:49.540 And we are discussing with a lot of other nations.

01:03:52.260 But I will remind everybody that on the last day of the last session, we had a motion adopted unanimously by the Parliament.

01:04:02.340 and this motion was precisely saying what we had been told to carry

01:04:08.000 by the First Nation leaders and we had it adopted.

01:04:12.140 This might be the way to do it.

01:04:13.440 Many times the Bloc Québécois said, even if we don't agree with everything,

01:04:17.180 that we would share our seats and our voices in the Parliament

01:04:21.560 with the First Nations in order to have them being heard by the whole country.

01:04:26.960 after the tragic finding of graves in Kamloops Cowessess and other former residential school

01:04:34.380 sites we offered to work in a bipartisan fashion on calls to action 71 to 76 those are related to

01:04:41.620 former residential school sites and we need to act faster I know Mr. Trudeau cares a great deal

01:04:47.140 about reconciliation I know we all do but this is an issue where we have to act we can no longer

01:04:53.340 say that we recognize the calls to action we need a plan to achieve them and what I'm proposing

01:04:58.880 is a plan that builds partnerships that builds governance that has indigenous leaders incredible

01:05:05.020 ones like Jody Wilson-Raybould to allow us to actually hold ourselves to account all all parties

01:05:12.760 all future governments this is the big scar in the history of Canada and we have to tackle it

01:05:19.100 not just with good intentions, but with a good plan to deliver for all Indigenous people.

01:05:24.420 Mr. Blanchet, briefly.

01:05:25.300 I must say that the Prime Minister has nominated Gouverneur Général,

01:05:30.280 I don't know how to translate that, who speaks Inuktitut, which is great, but does not speak French.

01:05:34.700 Still, he does not agree with the idea of acknowledging, recognizing First Nation languages as official languages in his country.

01:05:45.420 All right, we will leave that segment there.

01:05:47.440 Ms. Paul, Mr. Singh, Mr. Trudeau, you're up. Tell me, what is your plan to end the ongoing

01:05:54.740 disproportionate violence against Indigenous women and girls? Ms. Paul.

01:06:00.660 The first thing is to make space for Indigenous leadership because, you know, we have done all

01:06:06.380 these things and made all these promises. We know what needs to be done. The recommendations are

01:06:10.500 there in the calls for justice and the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls report,

01:06:15.220 and yet we still don't have the action.

01:06:17.620 And so, as I said before, it should be Jody up here answering that question.

01:06:21.720 It should be Mumala Kakak up here answering that question. 0.99

01:06:25.200 We need to make the space for Indigenous leadership to guide this process

01:06:29.260 and above all, we need to make this a priority.

01:06:33.660 All that is left now is political will.

01:06:36.540 But that is exactly what we have been doing, Ms. Paul.

01:06:39.360 When we called the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls

01:06:44.040 after years of governments avoiding doing that.

01:06:46.920 We ensured that we brought the truth forward.

01:06:48.860 And then we worked with Indigenous leaders groups,

01:06:51.720 Indigenous women's groups,

01:06:52.920 to co-develop the action plan that we are now fully funding

01:06:57.140 so we can get justice for the victims,

01:07:00.160 healing for the families,

01:07:01.340 and put an end to this ongoing national tragedy.

01:07:04.260 It will take a lot of work by all of us,

01:07:06.600 but we are walking this road in partnership

01:07:09.220 because we know it needs to be done

01:07:11.560 and there is much more to do.

01:07:13.820 Mr. Trudeau, sadly, and I don't take any pleasure in this,

01:07:16.820 the calls to justice are out there, and you haven't acted on them.

01:07:20.000 And I meant it when I said you can't take a knee one day

01:07:22.400 if you're going to take Indigenous kids to court the next.

01:07:24.860 That's not leadership.

01:07:26.100 Mr. Singh, you love that line about taking Indigenous kids to court. 1.00

01:07:29.640 It's actually not true.

01:07:31.720 We have committed to compensating those kids who went through that.

01:07:36.120 And what's more than that, this is important, Mr. Singh.

01:07:38.580 No, you can't say you're not taking them to court when you're taking them to court.

01:07:40.860 There are kids out there that are being fought by you in court.

01:07:44.160 Leaders, I would actually remind you the question is about violence against Indigenous women and girls.

01:07:49.980 Let me re-center you on that.

01:07:52.040 I appreciate it because you can't continue to say that.

01:07:53.820 That doesn't make any sense.

01:07:54.340 And Ms. Curl, I will say again, I said this last night in the French debate,

01:07:58.380 this is why we need more diversity in politics.

01:08:01.020 This is why we need people who are most directly impacted by issues to be able to speak for themselves

01:08:06.180 because we are drifting off into things.

01:08:08.500 we have only dedicated two minutes to talking about how we are going to bring true justice

01:08:13.940 to Indigenous women in this country. If we could stick to the topic. Mr. Trudeau. Ms. Curl, on this

01:08:19.040 topic, and it was brought up in the earlier one, and we talked about Indigenous women, I want to

01:08:23.320 talk about those kids buried in unmarked graves across the country, because it was a tragedy for

01:08:27.740 all Canadians when long known by Indigenous peoples. But when I went to Cowessus to speak

01:08:33.060 with Chief Kazmus DeLorme. We not only grieved those kids, we signed an agreement, a landmark

01:08:38.700 agreement, to keep kids at risk in their communities, to take them out of the provincial

01:08:44.240 system. That is how we move forward. It took years to sign that agreement, but we got it and we are

01:08:49.860 empowering Indigenous communities to care for the wrong kids. Mr. Trudeau, we're out of time. Mr. Singh,

01:08:54.320 I'm going to give you a very brief moment to respond. Briefly, we're over time. We need to

01:08:59.180 implement all the calls to justice. We need to listen to Indigenous women and girls. We need to

01:09:03.820 make sure that they're safe and we have the steps they've laid out that we need to follow. All right

01:09:08.080 thank you very much leaders. Now I'm really pleased to welcome Melissa Ridgen of APTN News.

01:09:14.980 Melissa is going to be asking you each a direct question on our theme of reconciliation.

01:09:20.520 Your first question, hi Melissa, is to Mr. Blanchette. Over to you.

01:09:25.260 Thank you all for being here. It's a pleasure to be here with you to ask some questions for our APTN audience.

01:09:32.120 Monsieur Blanchet, I'm going to start with you.

01:09:33.560 You know, numerous government reports, including in Quebec, have sounded the alarm that systemic racism exists.

01:09:40.240 From Joyce Eshaquan dying as she's taunted by hospital staff, to policing, the justice system.

01:09:47.480 What will you do as Black leader to address systemic racism in your own province, in Quebec, and also elsewhere in Canada?

01:09:53.700 First, never underestimate the weight, the sadness of those dramas.

01:10:00.880 Second, I acknowledge, I recognize the existence of systemic racism in June 2020.

01:10:08.620 And then what happened?

01:10:10.580 It became a political tool against Quebec.

01:10:14.360 It became a tool to say Quebec is this and that and racist and xenophobic and all of that.

01:10:19.680 instead of opening a discussion trying to find solution consulting experts discussing with the

01:10:27.440 first nations themselves it became this white society against this other one white society 0.90

01:10:36.720 we build nothing so the words became toxic i'm absolutely open to the idea of discussing all of

01:10:44.880 that on a quiet stage without this being aggressive as this debate has become.

01:10:53.840 All right, Mr. Blanchet, we have to move on. Your next question, Melissa.

01:10:56.800 This question's for you, Ms. Paul. You know, Canada has more children in government custody

01:11:02.080 right now than at the height of residential schools. New legislation, child welfare legislation,

01:11:08.000 actually takes the onus and puts it on the First Nations communities to bring their kids back, 0.58

01:11:12.960 cleaning up the mess that Canada has created essentially and those children 0.98

01:11:17.940 are going to have to be brought back to all of those same problems that still

01:11:21.200 exist that were the grounds for apprehension what would you do in the

01:11:25.380 House of Commons to make sure that poverty and trauma issues are addressed

01:11:30.600 thank you very much for that question and and absolutely I we we mentioned

01:11:35.760 that not that long ago in one of our statements that the residential school

01:11:41.160 system had been replaced by children in care and that this was just perpetuating the legacy of

01:11:47.800 trauma it really comes back to what i said before which is that the indigenous leadership is there

01:11:53.560 it is ready to guide all of these processes we have all of the recommendations we need what we

01:11:58.120 are missing is political will what we are missing is those who have been in power for a very long

01:12:03.320 time making space for new voices and diverse voices um i actually had to pull my jaw up which

01:12:10.200 just dropped. When I heard what Mr. Blanchet said, I invited Mr. Blanchet to get educated

01:12:16.040 about systemic discrimination. I extend that invitation again. I would be happy to educate

01:12:20.780 him. It's nice to want to educate me. This is my time, sir. It is. Nice time to insult people.

01:12:26.540 That was not an insult. It was an invitation to educate yourself. This is leader direct

01:12:31.080 questions, Melissa. There should be some decency in this debate. Since I'm many minutes behind

01:12:36.920 everybody else. There should be some decent things. Mr. Blanchett, you have had every opportunity to

01:12:40.560 jump in an open debate. It's your responsibility, not mine, but some things cannot be said. And I am

01:12:43.620 fulfilling my responsibility, sir. Melissa, we're going to keep moving on. Is it my turn? It is

01:12:48.280 your turn. Thank you. Mr. Trudeau, this is for you. You know, your Liberal government has turned

01:12:53.540 Indian affairs into two separate massive bureaucracies that eat up large portions of 0.99

01:12:58.580 funding that will never see it onto reserve. It doesn't leave the bureaucracy. You know,

01:13:03.900 you promised clean drinking water but billions of dollars later that's not happened many still do

01:13:08.260 not have clean drinking water you know Canadians and Indigenous people are losing patience with 1.00

01:13:13.740 the lack of results from all of this spending so I guess the question is why would they believe you

01:13:19.640 this a third term that they would get results and you'd be accountable for all that spending

01:13:24.260 one of the enemies of progressive politics Melissa is cynicism is discounting the hard work that 1.00

01:13:32.160 millions of people have been involved in over the past years and yes there's always more to do

01:13:37.380 progressives always know there's more to do but when we came into office there were 105 long-term

01:13:43.560 boil water advisories we lifted 109 of them and for each of the ones that are remaining we have

01:13:49.000 a project lead a project team and an action plan and we're going to lift those all there are tens

01:13:55.060 of thousands of kids across this country indigenous kids who've started the school year in new schools

01:14:00.820 or refurbished schools. We have moved forward on settling more agreements and more land claims

01:14:05.960 and more partnerships than any other government over the years. We continue to work in partnership

01:14:12.320 and respect and invest more money in Indigenous communities than any previous government. And no,

01:14:17.300 we're not done yet. I think the money, I don't think anybody's questioning the money spent. I

01:14:21.660 think that they're questioning the results for the money that's spent. My next question is to

01:14:25.860 you, Mr. Singh. You know, federal forces, including the RCMP and the Department of Fisheries

01:14:30.720 and Oceans, have been used throughout Canada's history to prevent First Nations from exercising

01:14:35.620 their treaty rights to fish and to hunt and to defend land and water. This is happening right

01:14:40.740 now on both coasts, including under the NDP party in British Columbia with regards to fishing and

01:14:46.920 logging. So my question would be to you, as Prime Minister, what would you do to ensure Indigenous

01:14:52.360 rights and title are finally respected in this country? I really appreciate the question. First

01:14:56.900 of all, we need to respect Indigenous treaty land and rights. That's a fundamental step towards

01:15:02.700 walking the path of reconciliation in a real meaningful way. But you mentioned the RCMP and

01:15:07.340 I got to talk about the really sad reality that there's been violence, heavy-handed violence

01:15:13.660 against Indigenous communities, against peaceful protesters. And we've long called, I've long 0.94

01:15:19.400 called for reform of policing when i was in the provincial level i fought against carting

01:15:24.360 i've continued to use every platform i have to say we've got to stop the use of force we've got

01:15:29.800 to overview it we've got to change the rcmp's mandate and that's something we can do at the

01:15:34.280 federal level that's something that mr trudeau said he would do and yet has yet to do and it's

01:15:39.320 something i'm committed to making sure happens uh mr otul my question next question's for you

01:15:45.320 you know you voted against the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People that would

01:15:49.320 share decision-making power with Indigenous people over what happens on their land and you

01:15:54.600 also want to criminalize Indigenous dissent that's expressed through blockades or protests. So the

01:15:59.880 question is if you're Prime Minister how could Canada build a respectful nation-to-nation

01:16:05.480 relationship with Indigenous people? Thank you Mr. Ridgen and this goes very similar to Mr. McLeod's

01:16:11.720 question on trust and respect i want to build those partnerships and that's why our only concern

01:16:16.360 with the united nations declaration was how free and prior informed consent was defined so that

01:16:21.480 didn't stop partnerships from being formed i'm really glad to say one of the early leaders behind

01:16:27.000 the u.n declaration chief willie littlechild has agreed to serve as a special counsel to me

01:16:32.120 on the implement implementation of that to make sure that there are partnerships and opportunities

01:16:37.400 what i want to do as prime minister is build that type of nation-to-nation dialogue and partnership

01:16:42.600 so that the next generation has intergenerational wealth and opportunity transfer not trauma and

01:16:49.400 building that trust will be core to me it's why as i said my first question was on reconciliation

01:16:55.880 we have to make progress all right thank you mr otul now we move on to open debate a reminder

01:17:01.800 that melissa will be here to keep the leaders on theme i will be here to do my best to keep you on

01:17:07.240 time and all of you have an opportunity to jump in after mr trudeau begins with a question from

01:17:15.000 melissa okay i think if there's one thing that canadians and indigenous people can all agree

01:17:19.720 upon it is that this indian act system is not working for anybody how would you dismantle this

01:17:24.920 broken top-down system and what would you replace it with that would ensure that canada still is

01:17:29.800 living up to uh its constitutional obligations to indigenous people first of all we are looking

01:17:35.800 forward to dismantling the Indian Act. It is a commitment of ours but it is not something that

01:17:41.220 Ottawa gets to decide and what replaces the Indian Act will vary from community to community as we

01:17:47.600 live up to our obligations and that's why over the years as we've moved towards self-government

01:17:52.340 we have accompanied communities, some who want to start with health, some who want to start with

01:17:57.780 education, some who want to start with economic development. Every community, every nation across

01:18:02.860 this country gets to help define what its path is forward we will be there to listen to partner to

01:18:09.700 build a better future every step of the way the way to go forward is to listen to leaders and

01:18:15.360 mr trudeau ignored one that he had in his own cabinet in jody wilson rayball that was a huge

01:18:20.080 lost opportunity we've been speaking to people with how we can accelerate treaty resolution

01:18:25.160 there are some treaty negotiations mr virgin that have been going on as you probably know for decades

01:18:29.540 We need to solve it, and we need to work with Indigenous leaders.

01:18:33.940 There's incredible Indigenous leaders in non-profits, in the private sector, in industry, in academia.

01:18:40.580 We need to use that governance capacity to finalize treaties and build partnerships.

01:18:45.380 Absolutely.

01:18:45.680 Because the best way forward is success for Indigenous peoples alongside their neighbours, alongside...

01:18:52.540 Mr. Singh and then Mr. Trudeau. I'm coming to you, Mr. Trudeau.

01:18:55.320 I'll just jump in on this one point.

01:18:56.860 I think absolutely the solution has to be Indigenous-led. 0.99

01:18:59.840 And I think that's the starting point.

01:19:01.300 And for a long time, we've seen that there's been a top-down approach that has to change.

01:19:05.280 It has to be Indigenous people at the table.

01:19:06.900 But I want to talk about the impacts, just so we understand how severe this is,

01:19:11.260 how the Indian Act is creating injustice and perpetuating injustice.

01:19:15.620 I spoke to Bea, who's a young woman, a young girl, who lives in Niskandiga.

01:19:20.020 And she told me in her own voice, she said,

01:19:22.400 i'm a 12 year old girl and i'm fighting for clean drinking water how does that make any sense

01:19:27.740 those words haunt me to this day i think about what 12 year olds do and they certainly aren't 0.97

01:19:32.900 fighting for clean drinking water it's that is a legacy i want that is the impact of the indiana

01:19:37.560 i want to go back to what mr o'toole has been saying because he's very able at saying all the

01:19:42.020 right things but there are countless examples of him actually not living up to his words we've seen

01:19:47.300 on a number of times during this campaign but on indigenous issues specifically yeah he says we

01:19:52.640 need to listen to indigenous people he proposed that he would raise the flags that are at half

01:19:58.260 mass for the kids in unmarked graves in residential schools and he didn't talk to or listen to any

01:20:03.860 indigenous leaders uh when he made that decision and that's something that is important and symbolic

01:20:09.280 but wouldn't cost a cent how do we believe that he would be able to actually make the investment

01:20:14.660 I'm going to give Ms. Paul and Mr. Blanchett a chance to jump in.

01:20:20.980 We haven't heard from them yet.

01:20:22.140 Time permitting, I'll come back to you, Mr. O'Toole.

01:20:24.200 And I really again want to...

01:20:26.000 I asked Mr. Trudeau to move immediately.

01:20:28.140 Hold on. Hold on. Ms. Paul.

01:20:29.620 I really just want to try to re-centre our conversation on Indigenous peoples

01:20:34.060 and what we are going to do to fulfil the many unfulfilled promises

01:20:38.460 and commitments that have been made.

01:20:41.060 And I would say perhaps to pick up on what has been said,

01:20:44.180 that it seems all too often that reconciliation is treated like a buffet.

01:20:50.320 You can opt in for this, pick this plate, but not the other one.

01:20:54.400 And that applies to what we've seen with Mr. Trudeau and the Liberals.

01:20:59.540 You can't, on the one hand, say reconciliation

01:21:01.400 and then go and not allow Mi'kmaq Fishers to be able to have

01:21:06.180 a decent, moderate living for all of these years.

01:21:09.200 You can't call reconciliation and then take Indigenous peoples to court.

01:21:12.840 But Mr. Singh, you also can't say reconciliation and then support the NDP government

01:21:17.840 and putting pipelines through Indigenous territories

01:21:20.720 or support Line 5 after the Anishinaabek made it very clear that they did not support that project.

01:21:27.100 Ms. Paul, I'm going to allow Mr. Blanchet to get in.

01:21:29.580 He's been signalling he wants to.

01:21:30.860 I will come back to the two of you.

01:21:32.360 Mr. Blanchet.

01:21:33.480 First Nations and Quebec have something in common.

01:21:36.720 They are binded by a document they never signed.

01:21:40.360 and any relationship between nations

01:21:43.440 should be dealt with

01:21:46.620 with freely signed treaties

01:21:49.600 or agreements or something.

01:21:52.260 The Indian Act has to be replaced

01:21:55.380 one nation at a time, if need be,

01:21:58.940 by and with freely signed treaties

01:22:02.300 and agreements.

01:22:03.440 There's no other way.

01:22:04.400 And if I may come back a few seconds

01:22:06.620 on something else.

01:22:07.820 Quebec wants religion out of the state affairs 0.55

01:22:11.000 because religion never protected equality for women and never will.

01:22:17.320 We are over time.

01:22:18.720 I'm going to give you both a chance to briefly respond.

01:22:21.080 Mr. O'Toole, then Mr. Singh, briefly, please.

01:22:23.840 I am proud of this country, and I think if you love your country,

01:22:27.260 you can dig deep to make it better.

01:22:28.920 So as Prime Minister on the National Day of Reconciliation on September 30th,

01:22:33.640 I will raise the flag with a commitment to move forward on calls to action.

01:22:39.380 Mr. Trudeau promises things, doesn't deliver, and then when people protested him, he mocked them.

01:22:45.720 That is not reconciliation.

01:22:47.320 So you can be proud of your country as you strive for it to get better.

01:22:50.480 All right. Thank you, Mr. O'Toole. Mr. Singh, briefly.

01:22:52.400 I think that Mr. Trudeau may care. I think he cares.

01:22:56.360 But the reality is that he's often done a lot of things for show and hasn't backed those up with real action.

01:23:00.900 And the harm is, is that Indigenous people continue to suffer.

01:23:04.800 And that's what I want to stop.

01:23:05.880 I want to stop the suffering and lift up Indigenous people. 1.00

01:23:08.920 Five seconds, Mr. Trudeau, then we got to go.

01:23:11.100 Mr. Trudeau, five seconds.

01:23:12.340 Unfortunately, the cynicism that Mr. Singh is showing on saying we did nothing

01:23:17.360 is harming reconciliation and the path we're moving forward.

01:23:20.620 We have lots more to do, and we are doing it.

01:23:23.100 All right, leaders, thank you.

01:23:24.720 Thank you, Melissa.

01:23:26.040 Merci, merci.

01:23:27.040 Merci.

01:23:27.300 And now it is time for our fourth theme for the night, affordability.

01:23:36.580 It's time now to bring in Janet Falla.

01:23:39.020 She is a senior working part-time in Burlington, Ontario.

01:23:43.240 Good evening, Janet.

01:23:44.320 Please tell us what your question is to the leaders.

01:23:49.580 My question is this.

01:23:51.040 At my age, I never imagined that I would have to keep on working,

01:23:55.640 But I have to, to afford to live where I do.

01:23:59.260 So I'd like to know when they become prime minister,

01:24:03.900 what will they do to help us seniors survive?

01:24:08.820 Thank you, Janet.

01:24:10.160 Leaders, you've heard Janet's question.

01:24:12.680 We're starting with you, Mr. Blanchet.

01:24:14.920 Merci, madame.

01:24:16.740 For many months now, the Bloc Québécois has demanded for the government

01:24:22.480 to increase the amount of money being provided on a monthly basis to our elders.

01:24:30.240 It's nowhere in the Conservatives' program and in the Liberals' program.

01:24:35.740 It starts at 75, nothing below 75 for this pension.

01:24:40.860 I'm not sure about the word in English.

01:24:42.600 It has to be done.

01:24:43.400 Those people are those who suffer the most from the pandemic.

01:24:47.380 Their power to buy things was reduced.

01:24:50.000 The fact that they were alone more than never before was made worse.

01:24:57.600 And the stress, the anxiety they lived with is terrible.

01:25:01.340 We want something to be done, and it has to start with a monthly check seriously increased.

01:25:07.640 Thank you, Mr. Blanchett. Mr. O'Toole.

01:25:09.580 Thank you, Ms. Valla, for the question.

01:25:11.740 This is a crisis facing our country, affordability.

01:25:15.840 And it's hitting our seniors the hardest.

01:25:18.780 That's why in Canada's recovery plan, our plan to give you a break,

01:25:22.820 we're going to double the Canada workers' benefit.

01:25:25.620 There are many seniors like you having to work to keep up with the cost of living.

01:25:30.200 We're going to double that for you to give you a break.

01:25:32.820 We're going to get bills down for internet, for cellular phone.

01:25:36.300 We're going to get grocery bills down.

01:25:38.060 That is our plan and our commitment.

01:25:39.480 And in December, we're going to give you a break with the GST holiday

01:25:42.940 and help bricks and mortar stores in the process.

01:25:46.040 Mr. Trudeau is borrowing every day $424 million, and he's causing an inflation crisis.

01:25:53.960 We have to secure our future, and that's our commitment to you, Ms. Fallish.

01:25:57.400 Thank you, Mr. O'Toole. Mr. Trudeau.

01:26:00.220 Ms. Fallish, thank you so much for your question.

01:26:02.860 We know that seniors have been deeply affected by this pandemic, the isolation, the extra costs,

01:26:08.920 which is why we stepped up with a one-time support so you could help get through this pandemic.

01:26:13.920 But we need longer-term supports.

01:26:16.220 One of the first things we did was increase the guaranteed income supplement

01:26:19.020 for our most vulnerable single seniors when we first got elected.

01:26:22.300 We're doing that again in our proposal in this election.

01:26:25.800 We're also moving forward with increasing the OAS for all seniors over 75

01:26:31.960 because we recognize that the costs continue to increase as you get older

01:26:36.940 and continue to want to live at home.

01:26:39.060 We're giving you more supports so you can stay at home safely

01:26:42.500 and make those renovations importantly we will continue to have your backs as we have through

01:26:47.540 this pandemic and into the future thank you mr trudeau mr singh i want to thank you so much for

01:26:52.980 your question and one of the things that you mentioned is that you didn't think you would

01:26:56.340 have to keep on working and i don't think our seniors should have to work if seniors want to

01:27:01.140 contribute by working that's absolutely the right but you shouldn't have had to work and in a country

01:27:07.380 as rich as ours we should make sure or make sure our seniors are able to retire with dignity

01:27:11.540 that you've got the supports necessary to live a life of dignity so what we're proposing to do is

01:27:16.500 put in place a guaranteed income for seniors so they can live with dignity and not have to worry

01:27:21.220 about paying the bills that's a starting point what we've seen so far is that mr trudeau and

01:27:26.900 mr otul both are going to either cut the help that you receive or put the burden back on people like

01:27:33.140 you we believe that the ultra rich should pay their fair share for once and invest in you invest

01:27:38.420 in families and invest in people thank you mr singh miss paul thank you very very much for

01:27:44.660 for the question and as someone who comes from a family where my grandma and grandfather had to

01:27:50.180 work until actually they were kicked out of working because they needed to keep working to

01:27:55.140 afford the basics i i completely understand what you're saying and this is an opportunity for us

01:28:00.980 to learn the lessons from this pandemic and to really get to the heart of things and to stop

01:28:05.940 talking about the symptoms but get to the root causes we need to have absolutely and it's so

01:28:11.220 wonderful to see the consensus building around a guaranteed livable income so that whatever your

01:28:15.940 circumstances you can live with dignity we need universal long-term care that's a huge expense

01:28:21.000 it was for my family and we need more affordable housing let's get to the root causes thank you

01:28:27.880 ms paul mr singh and mr blanchette you will both square off now you both talk about affordable

01:28:34.760 housing but we know that affordability means different things to different people depending

01:28:40.460 on where in the country they live so when you talk about affordable housing who are you really

01:28:46.620 talking about per the draw mr singh you begin mr blanchett you may jump in anytime

01:28:51.200 we're talking about people who are spending right now more than half their income on housing that's

01:28:58.680 not affordable people should not be spending so much on housing that they have no money left

01:29:03.480 to pay for their groceries, to pay for their bills.

01:29:06.400 And the sad reality is, since 2015 to now,

01:29:10.640 the average cost of housing nationally has gone up to buy a home by $300,000.

01:29:16.640 So, so far, the housing crisis has gotten worse over the past six years.

01:29:20.460 We want to invest in housing.

01:29:22.040 We want to invest to make it easier to buy your first home

01:29:24.220 and to invest to make sure there's available, affordable rental homes.

01:29:28.020 Let Mr Blanchet respond.

01:29:29.540 Could anyone tell me how to translate logement social?

01:29:32.120 Social housing.

01:29:32.980 Social housing might be a solution to another problem.

01:29:36.680 People are paying, at least in Quebec,

01:29:38.940 people are paying far too much for houses

01:29:41.080 because the prices have increased tremendously.

01:29:44.640 The idea is to reduce the speed of that increase

01:29:49.300 while helping people who cannot even afford decent lodging.

01:29:55.160 If we build more social lodging,

01:29:58.320 which prices are obviously very lower, much lower,

01:30:01.600 then it will lessen the pressure on those houses to become more and more expensive.

01:30:09.560 And it will help reduce this.

01:30:11.240 I wouldn't speak about an inflation crisis,

01:30:13.760 but I would speak about an inflation worry, which we must have at present times.

01:30:20.360 So I believe one thing might be part of the solution for the other thing when we speak about this.

01:30:25.580 All right, Mr. Blanchet, that's time.

01:30:27.820 I'm sorry, Mr. Singh, that's time.

01:30:29.460 You speak about inflation, Mr. Blanchet, and that brings us to our next topic.

01:30:35.240 So, Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Trudeau, and Ms. Paul, you're up.

01:30:38.940 Inflation is at its highest level in a decade, and it is squeezing Canadians on staples such as groceries, gas, rent.

01:30:47.360 What's your message to Canadians who are struggling to make ends meet?

01:30:52.280 Per the draw, you begin, Mr. O'Toole.

01:30:53.780 Well, unlike Mr. Trudeau, I will care about monetary policy because we need to keep inflation low.

01:31:01.340 There is a crisis hitting families, and Mr. Trudeau seems completely oblivious to that.

01:31:06.600 Bills are going up. There's a housing crisis, as we talked about.

01:31:10.400 And he's making it worse with, as I said, almost half a billion dollars of borrowing per day.

01:31:17.080 There's real risks on the horizon.

01:31:18.420 So we have a plan to get people work, get people, get their bills down, give them a break.

01:31:24.660 Canadians deserve a break and balance the budget over the course of the next decade.

01:31:28.580 That's exactly what we need to fight against Mr. Trudeau's inflation.

01:31:32.340 Try not to interrupt anyone.

01:31:34.220 Ms. Paul.

01:31:34.980 Try not to interrupt anyone.

01:31:36.080 You know, it's just an excellent question.

01:31:38.600 And if you come to my neighbourhood of Toronto Centre, you will see those people living in inadequate housing.

01:31:43.960 You will see people paying more than half of their income just for things like child care.

01:31:50.160 And, you know, there's this expression in my culture where you talk about soon come.

01:31:55.040 It's the things that you delay to tomorrow and tomorrow that should have been done today.

01:32:00.220 This is soon come. Soon come is now.

01:32:02.480 We have got to learn the lessons of the pandemic and make sure that we have a social safety net in place that lets everyone live with dignity.

01:32:09.800 when we invest in our people we are investing in our future and this is the time for us to do that

01:32:16.180 it costs us not to do it over the past year and a half i made a straightforward promise to

01:32:21.560 canadians that we would have your backs and that's what we did during this pandemic we were there to

01:32:26.640 support people but at the same time we need to continue that that's why we put forward a ten

01:32:31.220 dollar a day child care proposal that will save the average family in toronto close to ten

01:32:36.440 $1,000 more than Mr. O'Toole's approach on target, which he would cancel. We also put forward a

01:32:43.580 national housing plan that will invest $4 billion to work with municipalities to create 1.4 million

01:32:51.880 homes. Mr. O'Toole's plan on housing gives half a billion dollars on breaks to the wealthiest

01:33:04.860 landlords and nothing for building new houses.

01:33:08.160 The housing crisis has gotten worse under Mr. Trudeau.

01:33:10.660 And months ago, he fought against us

01:33:12.520 trying to take foreign non-resident money

01:33:14.860 out of our housing market.

01:33:16.360 We've got a plan to get rental housing built.

01:33:18.700 We've got a plan to get density,

01:33:20.340 a million new homes in the next three years.

01:33:22.820 And to give first-time homebuyers

01:33:25.000 a break by a longer mortgage.

01:33:27.660 And Mr. Trudeau, Canadians are worried

01:33:29.600 you're going to be taxing their primary home sale.

01:33:32.960 Your advisors have said it.

01:33:34.180 Your candidates have said it's on page 14 of his policy book.

01:33:38.480 He's introducing a new tax on the sale of homes.

01:33:41.000 Leaders, there will be more opportunity to speak about these issues.

01:33:45.400 Thank you, because guess what?

01:33:47.060 I'm bringing out Rosemary Barton of CBC News,

01:33:49.540 and she's going to be asking you more direct questions

01:33:52.600 and opening up more opportunities for debate on this theme of affordability.

01:33:57.600 Hey, Rosie. 0.94

01:33:58.360 Hey, Shachie. Thanks, and good to see everybody.

01:34:00.220 Appreciate you being here.

01:34:01.080 Let's try and get some answers this time, shall we?

01:34:03.940 Ms. Paul, I'll start with you.

01:34:05.320 One of the plans that you've laid out to tackle affordability is a guaranteed livable income.

01:34:10.100 You mentioned it just moments ago.

01:34:11.760 Give people a set amount of money to deal with their lives.

01:34:14.440 There was an expert panel in British Columbia just recently that said that that is not the way forward.

01:34:20.000 But that actually is too complicated for the needs of our society, that the needs are too diverse.

01:34:25.400 Why do you think this is still a policy worth pursuing?

01:34:28.860 Guaranteed livable income is a policy whose time has come.

01:34:32.320 We saw at the beginning of the pandemic how many people were thrown immediately into financial crisis

01:34:37.820 because our patchwork system simply isn't working.

01:34:40.980 There is a growing consensus.

01:34:42.940 The members of the Liberal Party voted for it at their convention.

01:34:46.160 The members of the NDP party voted at their convention.

01:34:50.260 Fifty senators signed a letter calling for it.

01:34:52.680 The time has come to ensure that everyone has the support that they need to live in dignity in this country.

01:34:58.860 The parliamentary budget officer looked at guaranteed livable income.

01:35:02.960 He examined the model in Ontario, and here's what he said.

01:35:07.180 He said that it would lift half of the people who are in poverty now out of it,

01:35:11.280 that it was affordable, and that it would not disincentify his work.

01:35:15.400 This is the time for a guaranteed livable income.

01:35:17.480 Let's do it together.

01:35:18.780 That's time. Thank you.

01:35:19.700 Mr. O'Toole, child care, as you know, is a huge expense for families.

01:35:23.260 You would scrap the deals that the Liberals have made with provinces,

01:35:25.980 which drops fees by 50% immediately and creates spaces

01:35:30.580 and eventually will reduce fees to $10.

01:35:33.560 Instead, you're proposing a tax credit that would reimburse

01:35:36.300 just some families $6,000 a year.

01:35:39.940 So what does your plan do to create spaces and lower fees?

01:35:44.060 Because as you know here, it's not just about affordability,

01:35:46.900 but also about access.

01:35:48.780 It's about helping all families now, not in five years helping some.

01:35:53.080 And our plan would help lower-income families with up to 75% of the cost.

01:35:58.960 Our plan will also help that nurse on shift schedules that has jobs in the evening that needs flexibility. 1.00

01:36:06.100 What we want to do is help all families get ahead and provide more support for the lower income.

01:36:09.580 But if the nurse can't find a spot, Mr. O'Toole, what does she do?

01:36:12.320 If the nurse can't find a spot, what does she do with her children? 1.00

01:36:15.040 This gives her as much flexibility as possible.

01:36:16.640 If there's not one in her suburban community, there is no space in five years under Mr. Trudeau's program.

01:36:23.220 We want to give families the tools to make the best decision for the position they're in now,

01:36:28.280 to have ability to help them in their circumstances.

01:36:31.860 Our plan will be immediate. It will help all Canadian families.

01:36:35.840 Mr. Singh, you're promising to tackle skyrocketing housing prices.

01:36:39.260 One of the ways is with that 20% tax on the sale of homes to foreign buyers.

01:36:43.560 Two-thirds of Canadian families actually own a home already.

01:36:46.640 If you're successful at cooling the housing market, that would mean that people who have invested their life savings in their homes may not have it anymore.

01:36:56.000 They're relying on that for their retirement.

01:36:57.940 So what is more important to you?

01:36:59.580 Helping younger people get access to the market or allowing older Canadians who rely on the value of their homes to live?

01:37:08.040 It's a really fair question.

01:37:10.240 And when I spoke to people, I go door to door in my riding at Burnaby, people who've got beautiful homes.

01:37:16.000 I ask them, what's the number one concern?

01:37:17.420 They say housing.

01:37:18.480 And I kind of look around at their house and say, well, you've got a home.

01:37:20.700 They say, well, I'm not worried for myself.

01:37:22.540 I've got a place, but I'm worried about my kids.

01:37:24.740 And they're more concerned that their kids will never be able to find a home

01:37:28.400 than their own circumstances because they're okay.

01:37:31.060 They are worried about their kids.

01:37:32.920 And the reality is it is impossible for young people to even imagine buying a home,

01:37:38.000 let alone renting a place that's in their budget.

01:37:40.160 So we've got to get the big money out of housing.

01:37:42.540 Young people, young families, professionals shouldn't have to compete.

01:37:44.980 So your answer is that it is more important for young people to get into the housing market

01:37:48.680 rather than protect people who have equity in their home now?

01:37:51.020 We can do both.

01:37:51.700 And our plan is that everyone's telling us the number one concern they have for their kids

01:37:56.220 is that they're not sure they're ever going to be able to own a home.

01:37:59.000 We want to change that.

01:37:59.940 It's gotten worse with Mr. Trudeau.

01:38:01.500 We're going to fix it.

01:38:02.540 Thank you.

01:38:03.320 Mr. Blanchet, nice to see you, sir.

01:38:05.100 Seniors, as you were talking about off the top,

01:38:07.000 they're really worried about the increased cost of living.

01:38:09.220 You, as you said, have criticized the Liberals for increasing old age security

01:38:13.800 only for those 75 and older but statistics show time and again that older seniors are less likely

01:38:21.320 to have employment income and they actually have higher health expenses so why should an increase

01:38:26.760 in seniors go to all seniors instead of those who need it most first let's say that this prime

01:38:33.080 minister is supposed to be the champion who fights against all kinds of discrimination and it did

01:38:40.920 create himself two classes of uh elders seniors what do you want is for those between 65 and 75

01:38:50.360 to spend their private funds in the meantime no but i've just given you the example about

01:38:55.800 why i've just given you the example about why the government may have done that sir it's because

01:38:59.960 people who are 65 to 75 please may i follow up please that those people generally stay employed

01:39:07.000 and generally have fewer health costs those people have worked all their lives until 65

01:39:15.960 years old they have paid for a pension that should be the same for everybody and for some

01:39:23.000 financial financial issues the government creates two classes of seniors it is unacceptable and no

01:39:31.400 No calculation whatsoever should be so unethical.

01:39:35.380 All right. Thank you, Mr. Blanchet.

01:39:37.060 We are now moving to the open debate section.

01:39:39.520 I just have a question for Mr. Trudeau, I believe.

01:39:41.880 I'm very sorry.

01:39:42.720 If you don't mind. I don't think we should let him off the hook.

01:39:44.340 I think we would all agree.

01:39:45.380 I got a little mixed up there.

01:39:46.780 I like the way you're making some of our arguments on the other ones.

01:39:48.740 Well, we'll make you uncomfortable now.

01:39:50.260 There we go.

01:39:50.900 You said in 2019 that Canadians should never have to make the,

01:39:54.900 and these are your words,

01:39:55.900 impossible choice between paying for medications

01:39:58.520 or putting food on the table.

01:39:59.920 We have seen you, particularly in these recent months, willing to spend billions of dollars on programs that matter to your government.

01:40:07.320 Daycare would be another example of that.

01:40:09.400 Why is there no money in your platform or in your most recent budget for a national pharmacare program?

01:40:15.700 Is it no longer a priority, and should you not just tell Canadians that, sir?

01:40:19.420 No, it continues to be a priority because, indeed, no one should have to choose between paying for groceries and medications.

01:40:25.580 On health investments, we were all focused on COVID-19 and supporting the provinces and making sure that on that, we were giving the support we needed so we could have Canadians' backs.

01:40:37.100 But at the same time, we worked with a number of different jurisdictions, and we've actually signed with Prince Edward Island a national universal pharmacare first step.

01:40:48.720 You've signed one deal, sir, but there's nothing in your platform in terms of costing.

01:40:53.540 I understand the pandemic kept you busy.

01:40:55.460 What about going forward?

01:40:56.700 Why wouldn't you put that in place?

01:40:57.660 Going forward, we are going to continue to.

01:40:59.060 But we know that it's not something we did with Prince Edward Island.

01:41:03.980 We're going to continue to do with others in respect of the provincial jurisdiction.

01:41:08.580 That is delivery of health care.

01:41:10.240 We can't impose pharma care on a province that doesn't want it, unlike the NDP proposes.

01:41:15.280 We are going to work in partnership, as we have on so many things, to get it done like we did on child care.

01:41:21.120 Okay, and now we're going to move to open debate.

01:41:25.780 Starting back with you, Rosie.

01:41:27.460 Okay, and we start here, I believe, with Monsieur Blanchet.

01:41:30.720 That's correct.

01:41:31.780 So, Monsieur Blanchet, what is one policy change that you think would make the biggest difference to Canadians or Quebecers, in your case, in terms of their cost of living?

01:41:41.120 The one change that you would like to see that would help them the most?

01:41:44.520 Cost of living, that's quite interesting because that's a worry that we have.

01:41:48.260 We believe that the most important thing is changing the way we create wealth.

01:41:55.560 We believe that transforming our own resources, natural resources with our own clean energy in our regions of Québec will create more wealth.

01:42:06.600 This wealth will come from an environmental, I will get this word, environmental preoccupation as well.

01:42:15.840 and we will do that and we should be entitled to do that with our part of the money that is being

01:42:21.520 sent again and again in oil and gas there's one thing there's one thing i want to add even if

01:42:28.240 it's not exactly i don't know if there's time eventually not really but quickly quickly quickly

01:42:33.360 i will take a few of those seconds yes will we have some seconds to speak about french-speaking

01:42:38.160 communities and acadians well not in this section this is about cost of living sir

01:42:42.000 And to you, Mr. Singh.

01:42:43.240 It's nowhere. That's my problem.

01:42:44.400 It's nowhere.

01:42:44.960 One of the things we know, the cost of living has gone up.

01:42:47.720 The cost of medication is going up.

01:42:49.340 The cost of being able to afford the medication that keeps you healthy.

01:42:52.320 Mr. Trudeau, zero dollars in your fully-costed budget

01:42:55.920 means zero commitment to getting it done.

01:42:58.140 You don't have a fully-costed platform.

01:42:59.560 Zero dollars, but you've shown your evidence.

01:43:01.420 With your costed budget, you've shown Canadians clearly

01:43:04.600 you've got no interest in doing something.

01:43:06.800 You have no costs in your platform, Mr. Singh.

01:43:10.120 You promised to do it two years ago.

01:43:11.620 you committed you campaigned on it you included in your throne speech and now you've completely

01:43:17.840 abandoned it how can people trust any promise you make when there's zero dollars in your plan

01:43:23.760 brief response then miss paul then i'm coming to you mr otul briefment briefly

01:43:28.640 billion dollars in our fully costed platform for health for the priorities that canadians

01:43:35.300 have told us on better support for seniors in care better support for mental health services

01:43:40.260 across the country particularly for young people and access to a primary care doctor or our team

01:43:45.140 that is what 25 billion dollars over the next four years gives Mr. O'Toole's money for pharma

01:43:51.440 for health is backloaded to six seven eight nine ten years all right Mr. Trudeau thank you I'm

01:43:57.940 reminded what the question was the question was what policy would have the biggest impact on

01:44:02.480 people's cost of living Ms. Paul and I think that we have a perfect example of this again here

01:44:08.080 because the biggest thing that could make a difference in the cost of living for people

01:44:12.040 is a change in the culture in Ottawa.

01:44:15.640 It is so painful for me because I've had the experience of, again,

01:44:20.260 having my grandparents work until they were 75 and living 600 and 800 square feet

01:44:24.800 and wondering how we were going to feed ourselves some nights.

01:44:27.260 I've had that experience and I know that one day of delay is too much.

01:44:31.400 So when I think that we could have been in Parliament now working to get people the help that they need.

01:44:36.980 What is the policy, Ms. Paul?

01:44:37.960 These are anecdotes.

01:44:39.320 What is the policy with the question?

01:44:40.580 It's not an anecdote.

01:44:41.740 The thing that we need is a change in the culture.

01:44:44.160 I hear you. I see you, Mr. O'Toole.

01:44:44.580 It's a change in the culture because there are several parties on this platform right now

01:44:48.320 that agree on guaranteed livable income and universal pharmacare and childcare.

01:44:53.300 My policy.

01:44:54.000 But it's always soon come.

01:44:55.160 It's always soon come.

01:44:56.040 All right. Thank you, Ms. Paul.

01:44:57.080 Mr. O'Toole, you've been waiting.

01:44:58.340 I'm going to get you in.

01:44:59.060 We're doubling the Canadian workers' benefit.

01:45:00.820 That amounts to a dollar per hour raise for working families.

01:45:04.720 These are people working very hard.

01:45:06.360 And I respect whether they get up to work a shift in a restaurant or work to open their small business.

01:45:12.520 We're going to have your back.

01:45:13.760 We're also going to get costs down.

01:45:15.700 We're the only party with a recovery plan that includes all Canadians.

01:45:20.600 And when it comes to cynicism that Mr. Trudeau talked about earlier, all of the commitments continue to be a priority.

01:45:27.840 He's going to get to the calls to action.

01:45:30.060 He's going to have transparency.

01:45:31.960 He's going to make targets.

01:45:33.360 he announces things and never delivers that mr trudeau a prime minister has to deliver on the

01:45:39.320 word not just fancy words to make promises a plan to get there by the way mr o'toole i won't uh take

01:45:46.780 lessons from you on making promises and not following up when we you're beholden to the gun

01:45:51.940 lobby we're holding to anti-vaxxers you're beholden to remember this is affordability and

01:45:57.180 mr trudeau i'm sorry we're out of time now sir responding to people can i answer rosie's

01:46:01.620 question directly you have five seconds sir we were able to lift a million people out of poverty

01:46:06.980 and create a million jobs at the same time with the right kinds of investments over the past five

01:46:11.780 years and mr trudeau i have to i'm sorry sir i have to wrap you right there because it is now

01:46:16.840 time for our next theme on covid recovery rosie thank you so much thank you very much thanks

01:46:22.420 okay from saskatchewan ethan herman is standing by in saskatoon he's an undecided voter and he

01:46:36.160 wants to hear from you about covid recovery hey ethan go ahead

01:46:40.660 hey good evening leaders my question is this

01:46:46.340 coming out of this pandemic how are you if elected as prime minister going to unify and drive

01:46:53.540 Canada forward with respect to health care jobs in the economy and ensuring a higher quality of

01:46:59.140 life is achievable for all Canadians regardless of race color creed or sexual orientation

01:47:05.180 all right leaders you've heard from Ethan Mr. O'Toole you're up first

01:47:09.200 thank you Mr. Herman that is exactly why I launched Canada's recovery plan on the first

01:47:14.420 day of the campaign. We're going to create a million jobs in one year. We're going to clean up

01:47:18.840 the accountability mess in Ottawa. We're going to have national leadership on mental health. We're

01:47:23.740 going to be more ready for a pandemic and we're going to get our finances under control. I want

01:47:27.740 to get people working. I want to give families a break and since the moment I became Conservative

01:47:33.340 Leader, I've been reaching out. Whatever your background, your faith, your colour, your sexual

01:47:38.320 orientation, whether you're Indigenous, whether you're a new Canadian, you're important to Canada's

01:47:43.740 recovery, and you're important to the Conservative Party, and I'd ask you to look at Canada's

01:47:48.800 recovery plan. After these 18 months as a country, we need a plan and a leader that will actually

01:47:54.920 deliver. Thank you, Ms. Paul. Thank you, Mr. Herman. And I swear I did not line up that question.

01:48:01.820 He's not a ringer. But this really comes to the heart of the matter, which again,

01:48:06.440 is about changing the culture of politics in Ottawa. We have heard from outgoing MPs in the

01:48:12.540 last parliament how incredibly important that is that the culture has become toxic that has become

01:48:18.660 hyper-partisan and you know there used to be a time I worked as an intern in a non-partisan way

01:48:24.920 in the Ontario legislature you know you would make a fuss in question period and then you'd

01:48:29.740 get to work across party lines and committees to find the solutions to help people in Canada

01:48:34.540 and so we need less partisanship we need more diverse voices so that we can get the access

01:48:40.520 to the best ideas in a more cooperative and collaborative way. Mr. Singh. Thank you. Mr.

01:48:46.240 Herman, thank you for your question. And your question touched on a number of things. Healthcare

01:48:51.420 is something very near and dear to my heart. And we've seen in this pandemic that our healthcare

01:48:55.700 system simply hasn't been there. And it's not because of the pandemic. A lot of these problems

01:49:00.500 were there from before. So our commitment is to invest in our healthcare system, to defend it.

01:49:05.300 Unlike Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole, who believe in private long-term care delivery, we want to get

01:49:10.220 out profit, get out the greed from the delivery of long-term care. We want to invest in pharmacare

01:49:16.140 for all, not promise it in 2019, and then have zero dollars to commit towards it. We want to

01:49:21.420 see everyone have access to medication. We want to include dental care into our healthcare system

01:49:25.960 and mental health services. And to do all that, we want to make sure that the billionaires are

01:49:30.380 paying their fair share so we can invest in you. Thank you, Mr. Singh. Mr. Trudeau.

01:49:34.660 Ethan, I think the folks on this stage missed the very first part of your question, which is,

01:49:38.360 you know once we get out of this pandemic and yes we have plans for being even more ambitious on

01:49:43.240 climate change and making sure people get good jobs but we have to get out of this pandemic first

01:49:48.680 and that's why the unequivocal leadership that we've shown as a government on making sure that

01:49:55.640 everyone gets vaccinated is what's going to get us through we cannot rebuild the economy until we

01:50:02.600 we get through this pandemic? And unfortunately, Mr. O'Toole, who says he wants to get all of

01:50:08.740 Canada vaccinated to 90% in the coming two months, can't even convince his own candidates to get

01:50:15.840 vaccinated to 90%. We have to get through this. We are unequivocal that vaccinations are the way

01:50:22.140 to do it. Thank you, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Blanchette. I think Mr. Trudeau forgot the second part of your

01:50:27.000 question which is about health care let's be efficient health care is a jurisdiction of the

01:50:34.120 provinces and quebec those are the territory the jurisdictions who should have the resources to do

01:50:41.640 their job the promises of the conservatives is 3.5 percent of increase a year for the first three

01:50:49.320 years which is very far from what the province has asked for and what the province has asked for is

01:50:56.280 not even in the program of Mr Trudeau so it will be hard to be efficient if those who are responsible

01:51:03.000 of health care do not have the resources which are owed to them thank you Mr Blanchet thanks

01:51:09.480 Ethan for your question have a good night we're gonna let you go it is now time Ms Paul and Mr

01:51:16.200 Singh to go face to face starting with Ms Paul and I want to talk about Canada's parallel pandemic

01:51:23.960 the opioid crisis. Since it has taken hold, more than 20,000 Canadians have died, often in the

01:51:32.580 shadows. This is an insidious killer that is tearing families apart. To both of you, starting

01:51:39.620 with Ms. Paul, does the political will exist to confront it? We called many times during the last

01:51:47.400 session of Parliament across party lines again for us to first recognize that this was a national

01:51:53.820 health emergency and then to decriminalize a simple possession because we know we need to

01:52:00.280 end the stigma and create a national safe supply program. We asked every party to do it because

01:52:06.100 17 lives on average are being lost every day. We didn't hear anything from anyone and it comes back

01:52:11.900 to Mr. Herman's question about unity. Can we not unify on something like this where it's clear what

01:52:17.940 we need to do? If we can't do that then none of these other things are possible and so that's what

01:52:22.980 We definitely need to respond to this crisis with everything we have.

01:52:27.540 We've long called for it to be declared a national public health emergency.

01:52:31.820 And what we know is the approach that has been taken for decades simply doesn't work.

01:52:38.260 The approach of arresting someone, putting them through the criminal justice system, putting them in jail does not make communities safer and it doesn't help people.

01:52:47.520 So we have been saying, and I believe very firmly,

01:52:49.900 we need to provide health care responses to people that are dealing with addiction.

01:52:54.060 We need to make sure we are doing everything we can to secure a safe supply.

01:52:57.560 We need to look at the evidence and say really clearly,

01:53:01.000 if there is any step we can take that will save lives, we've got to take it.

01:53:04.840 So there's a lot to do, but does the political way exist to do it?

01:53:08.360 That is exactly the question. Is there the political will?

01:53:11.540 There is on behalf of the Democrats.

01:53:12.760 There doesn't seem to be because we need a national safe supply program.

01:53:15.720 We wanted it before Parliament dissolved, and here we are, and lives will be lost in my writing of Toronto Centre, probably today because of it.

01:53:22.860 All right, Ms. Paul, I have to wrap you there. It's good to hear, Mr. Singh, that it is at least coming from you.

01:53:28.060 Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Blanchett, Mr. O'Toole, this round to you.

01:53:32.500 Starting with Mr. Trudeau, during the pandemic, Canadians watched in horror the suffering of their most vulnerable and frail loved ones in long-term care.

01:53:45.200 what if tomorrow you had to place a family member in a long-term care facility would you do it

01:53:53.700 beginning with you mr trudeau mr otul mr blanchett you may jump in tomorrow is my mom's 73rd birthday

01:53:59.540 so that is certainly something we're reflecting on but she's doing wonderfully right now we won't

01:54:03.960 have to make that decision right now don't don't worry mom um the reality is we've heard from

01:54:08.360 seniors across this country who have been uh tremendously worried with this pandemic and

01:54:12.460 family members worried about that. We know that the conditions of work for the people who are in

01:54:17.760 those long-term care homes are often dictating the conditions of care for seniors, which is why

01:54:23.040 we propose to hire 50,000 new personal support workers working with the provinces with the

01:54:31.080 money for that, also increasing the minimum salary to $25 an hour for people who care for our elders

01:54:37.820 and most vulnerable. So if you had to put mom in long-term care, you would do it? I would make sure

01:54:42.140 that, yes, that they are people who are properly well cared

01:54:45.120 and that there is enough of a proportionate.

01:54:48.400 And that's where we will work with the provinces

01:54:51.320 to deliver exactly that

01:54:52.760 because we put real money forward for that.

01:54:55.200 Thank you, Mr. Trudeau. Mr. O'Toole.

01:54:56.680 This is where we need partnerships for long-term care

01:54:59.160 for the CHSLD in Quebec.

01:55:01.280 We're going to have a $3 billion fund

01:55:02.940 that the provinces can draw on

01:55:04.460 for infrastructure upgrades to long-term care.

01:55:06.740 That's in addition to our record

01:55:08.820 almost $60 billion commitment over 10 years

01:55:11.680 to the public health care system universal access with no conditions we need to partner with the

01:55:17.380 provinces not create fights and long-term care learning from the gaps in the first part of this

01:55:23.040 pandemic is something we need and i have to address you put a loved one in long-term care

01:55:27.020 i have a grandmother in one and we've been in touch with her but i have to touch on what mr

01:55:32.000 trudeau said about the recovery we have to get through the pandemic first why did you not have

01:55:36.720 that approach to the election mr trudeau we're in the fourth wave everything in the recovery

01:55:41.480 relates to getting out of the pandemic.

01:55:42.880 Mr. Spence, I'm going to let Mr. Blanchet in.

01:55:47.680 You have had four minutes more than I did.

01:55:50.820 So now I think it's enough.

01:55:52.100 The debate is almost over.

01:55:53.980 Some dads and some moms don't have to worry.

01:55:58.180 They will have the money, of course.

01:56:00.400 Some do.

01:56:02.260 And in order to give them the care they need,

01:56:06.800 the care they deserve,

01:56:08.160 those responsible for those cares provinces and Quebec should have without

01:56:15.300 conditions because it is their responsibility their knowledge their

01:56:19.860 expertise the resources required when the army came in Quebec they did they

01:56:25.840 wrote a report afterward what did they say they did not say Quebec is not good

01:56:31.000 enough to take care of its seniors they said they lacked resources they

01:56:37.800 lacked the money. Thank you, Mr. Blanchett leaders. We are starting to get out. We're

01:56:43.960 running out of time. I am sorry. I am sorry, Mr. Trudeau. You've had the most time tonight. I'm

01:56:48.780 sorry, Mr. Trudeau. We are now moving on to our final journalist of the night. I am welcoming Evan

01:56:54.620 Solomon from CTV News. He's going to be putting questions to you on COVID recovery, starting with

01:57:00.580 Mr. Singh. Hey, Evan. Hi, Shachi and hi, leaders. Good to see all of you. Mr. Singh, I'll start with

01:57:06.740 you sir your pandemic recovery plan is uncosted you have no plan to balance the books but you

01:57:12.980 promised to pay for your expensive promises new programs like universal dental care with

01:57:17.680 taxing the super rich and taxing corporations what specifically would you do to create the

01:57:23.580 1 million jobs you're promising and make sure canada stays competitive we have the only credible plan

01:57:31.280 that's not going to cut help to canadians that's not going to put the burden back on the same people

01:57:36.480 that have struggled. We're the only ones on this debate table that I can say clearly we would tax

01:57:42.220 the billionaires. We would make sure companies like Amazon start paying their fair share so we

01:57:47.480 can invest in those new jobs, so we can invest in people. Left to Mr. Trudeau or Mr. O'Toole,

01:57:52.900 they are going to put the burden back on you. They've already started. Mr. Trudeau has already

01:57:56.300 started by cutting the CRE, cutting help to people. But what new programs, sir, specifically?

01:58:01.800 Well, I believe in making sure we invest in pharmacare, we invest in dental care,

01:58:05.360 we invest in retrofitting homes and buildings. In doing this, we're going to lower the cost of

01:58:09.940 living, help people save money, but also create jobs by investing in the future economy, the

01:58:15.180 economy of the future. All right. Mr. Trudeau, to you. Only four months ago, you released a budget

01:58:21.000 that was billed as a pandemic recovery program, a plan that had $101 billion of new spending.

01:58:27.240 Since then, COVID numbers are up, growth numbers are down. Now you've got a new plan that adds

01:58:31.240 78 billion dollars of new spending essentially rendering your last budget out of date how do

01:58:36.720 canadians trust that these new massive spending promises will not just keep growing in another

01:58:41.860 few months and what do you say to the next generation who say how are we going to pay for

01:58:45.920 this first of all i made a promise during this pandemic to have people's backs every time i came

01:58:50.980 out of my house uh early on in the pandemic to talk directly to canadians i told them i'd be

01:58:55.780 there for you and that's exactly what we've done and it wasn't just being there for people because

01:59:00.580 we're nice although of course we are it was being there because that is the best way to ensure

01:59:06.280 a strong recovery now yes our budget showed our ambition for this country including with

01:59:11.760 $10 a day child care that Mr O'Toole is planning on ripping up but we also shows a responsible

01:59:17.540 fiscal track and even with our fully costed platform that is even more ambitious on the

01:59:23.540 fight against climate change on housing on supports for people the debt of our country

01:59:28.660 as proportion of the GDP continues to decrease.

01:59:32.880 Yes or no?

01:59:33.300 Is it important to have a plan to balance the budget?

01:59:35.220 Because you don't have one.

01:59:35.920 It is important to stay fiscally responsible,

01:59:38.280 and that's what we're doing.

01:59:39.180 Our debt continues to decrease as a share of our GDP.

01:59:42.120 Ms. Paul, to you now.

01:59:44.680 You have not been clear if you support the need

01:59:47.460 for vaccine passports or mandatory vaccines

01:59:50.440 for federal workers or even mandatory vaccines

01:59:52.220 for your own candidates.

01:59:53.340 Given that the fourth wave is really a pandemic

01:59:55.600 of the unvaccinated and threatening to overwhelm 0.92

01:59:58.500 many health care systems, how do you justify not supporting the very measures that have proven

02:00:04.100 to be most effective at increasing vaccination rates? Evan, we just filmed a video today asking

02:00:10.080 everyone to get vaccinated. We have been unequivocal in our support for vaccinations.

02:00:16.620 Mandatory vaccinations and vaccine passports. Well, again, you know, this is just a, you know,

02:00:22.180 this is again where policy gets put aside for partisan advantage because there is everyone on

02:00:30.600 this stage understands that everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated we need to

02:00:35.780 encourage people to do it vaccine saves lives and every single person on the stage has also said

02:00:40.800 that of course there are going to be people who are not able to get vaccinated for certain reasons

02:00:45.480 and we have to reasonably accommodate them we will always be guided by the science we will never put

02:00:50.900 partisan concerns ahead of public health. Mr. O'Toole, you promise a $60 billion increase in

02:00:58.440 health care transfers over the next 10 years, but according to the Independent Parliamentary

02:01:01.820 Budget Officer, it's actually only a transfer of $3.6 billion for the next five years, which is

02:01:07.880 not much different than the status quo. But you also support private-public synergies, in your

02:01:12.700 words. Can you specify here tonight exactly what kinds of private health care innovations you want

02:01:18.580 to see more of? And if a province introduces more private health care, would you enforce the Canada

02:01:24.220 Health Act by holding back any of your promised funding? I 100% support our public and universal

02:01:31.780 system. I've said it's paramount. And after COVID-19, we need to rebuild it. So we have the

02:01:37.060 most substantive plan to do that. Six percent increase per year, stable, predictable, without

02:01:43.760 conditions funding to partner with our provinces we will respect them running and putting priorities

02:01:50.480 to get wait times down to give more choice for universal public access that's what we need in

02:01:56.720 on top of that evan we have a substantial commitment in mental health and treatment

02:02:02.000 for addiction there are going to be lingering aspects from this pandemic that we're going to

02:02:06.400 do in addition but just the provinces are in charge of their system we will respect that

02:02:12.400 public and universal elements need to be at the core of our system and our investments will save

02:02:18.800 it and give relief to front lines like our nurses okay physicians mr trudeau doesn't hire those

02:02:23.360 okay all right we got to wrap you mr mr blanchette quebecers relied on the federal government

02:02:29.920 for life-saving vaccines and key programs like the serve and as you mentioned the canadian armed

02:02:34.320 forces came in to save people in long-term care homes in the province of quebec some believe this

02:02:39.680 crisis has enforced the argument for a strong federation and undermines your fundamental

02:02:44.320 argument of separatism given that if the federal government say gives billion dollars for long-term

02:02:50.000 care homes which quebec failed to protect why should they not also inform enforce national

02:02:57.120 standards i have still not heard from all those brilliant people all over the place and all over

02:03:04.400 Canada what a Canadian can do that a Quebecer cannot do. In what way whatsoever would a Canadian

02:03:12.320 norm be any better than a Quebec norm? I don't see that, and I'm not, you know, I don't have

02:03:18.940 this complex. I don't feel that I'm any lesser person than a Canadian because I'm a Quebecer.

02:03:24.180 I'm asking about enforcing national standards. If you pay for something, should you be able to enforce it?

02:03:27.220 So I'm against national norms or standards. And I would say that the premier Legault of Quebec today

02:03:33.780 They said no one is to be entirely trusted in this group of people.

02:03:38.800 Some are worse than others.

02:03:40.080 I think they recognize themselves.

02:03:41.880 But even those who are a little bit less terrible need a watchdog

02:03:47.040 because they're not entitled to a majority government.

02:03:49.700 So if Quebecers want, I will lead the watchdogs. 0.99

02:03:53.160 Okay.

02:03:53.740 This is the open debate section.

02:03:56.060 And I'll start with you, Mr. O'Toole, but everyone, please jump in.

02:03:59.500 Not all at once.

02:04:00.700 The pandemic recovery is about the future path of Canada.

02:04:03.780 And all of the leaders here tonight have made promises that require historic levels of spending.

02:04:09.300 But as you all know, politics is about hard choices.

02:04:12.080 With some Canadians still in real need of support and other industries experiencing real labour shortages,

02:04:18.500 what specific programs will stay and what will go in the next year and who will pay for all of this?

02:04:25.960 Mr. O'Toole.

02:04:26.620 That's a great question, Evan, because we didn't see the government adapt to the changing crisis.

02:04:32.120 What we support and we all work together, the wage subsidy, the CERB, needed to be adapted as there were labour shortages in Quebec, as we can't find enough people for restaurants and service industry.

02:04:43.320 We need to target the highly impacted sectors.

02:04:46.320 That's what our plan, Canada's Recovery Plan, does.

02:04:48.820 We get those service, tourism, restaurants back on their feet, get people working, and with keeping cases low, we can then wind down the other programs because we need to focus on work.

02:05:00.700 We have a job boost that will actually incentivize the hiring of people that have been out of work for 10 months or more.

02:05:08.240 Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Trudeau are jumping over each other about who is going to cut help to people first.

02:05:14.860 I don't agree with that approach.

02:05:16.860 I don't think it makes sense to say, oh, I'm going to have people's back, but I'm going to cut as quickly as I can.

02:05:21.980 I'm going to cut the help to people who need it as much as they can.

02:05:25.460 We're the only party right here clearly is going to say to you, you're not going to have to pay more.

02:05:29.720 we're not going to cut any programs we're going to ask the 44 we're giving working canadians

02:05:34.960 we're going to ask the 44 richest billionaires pay their fair share for lunch that's what we're

02:05:41.060 going to do respond to that because this is the second time that mr singh has said we're the only

02:05:45.100 party we're you know just us um mr singh you know that hold on mr unless you're trying to ghost me

02:05:51.000 you know that you're also okay sure so yes as well okay thank you thank you all right mr trudeau

02:05:56.900 you're trying to get in. Mr. Singh continues to pretend that it makes no difference whether there

02:06:01.700 is a progressive government or a conservative or progressive government or a conservative

02:06:06.980 government. We know that it makes a huge difference to families whether they have $10 a day child

02:06:14.100 care, whether they have a government that has their back, a government that has a plan to move

02:06:18.100 beyond the Harper targets on fighting climate change. Now Mr. Singh may feel that for the NDP

02:06:24.580 it makes no difference who forms government i know for canadian family mr blanchett you haven't

02:06:29.940 you haven't been in yet mr blanchett uh wage subsidy wage subsidy did any of you three guys

02:06:38.740 refund the wage subsidy that you received up to about three million dollars that would be something

02:06:44.660 at least for the principal after that there's there's an important issue labor shortage

02:06:50.020 they are promising jobs they should be promising workers yes we need people to work and that raises

02:06:57.140 the question of productivity this is the most important issue and some programs should be

02:07:03.300 turned toward that issue mr in this pandemic election that mr trudeau called after everyone

02:07:09.940 asked him not to he says he doesn't worry about monetary policy and inflation now he's saying he

02:07:15.060 He doesn't ever intend to balance the budget.

02:07:17.840 He's spending $424 million a day more than Canada's bringing in.

02:07:23.360 The question was, what programs will stay?

02:07:25.280 We need to wind down the support programs in a fair way and get the country working again.

02:07:30.400 We have got to remember.

02:07:31.000 Thank you.

02:07:32.560 Last minute of play, leaders.

02:07:34.420 Last minute of play.

02:07:35.460 Ms. Paul, five seconds to you.

02:07:37.400 I'm coming to you.

02:07:38.180 Ms. Paul.

02:07:38.520 Thank you.

02:07:38.960 We have got to remember the pandemic is not over.

02:07:41.600 And all over this country, people still need the benefits.

02:07:44.140 They should be there.

02:07:45.060 until the pandemic is over. And to the people of Canada, it is unfortunate we are in this election.

02:07:50.520 You can see that there is a lot of work left to do. We need to get back to doing it in a more

02:07:54.860 cooperative way. Thank you, Ms. Paul. Mr. Singh, I see you, Mr. Trudeau. Mr. Singh. One of the specific

02:07:58.620 programs we demanded 22 times in Parliament for Mr. Trudeau to expand was paid sick leave. Because

02:08:05.980 in this pandemic, people had to make the impossible choice going into work sick or not being able to

02:08:11.660 because they couldn't pay their bills.

02:08:13.780 22 times over 18 months, we demanded an expansion.

02:08:18.480 And Mr. Trudeau said no to you and said no to your family.

02:08:20.920 Last word to you on this, Mr. Trudeau.

02:08:22.400 We are actually expanding sick leave to 10 days of paid sick leave for federal industries.

02:08:25.640 Now, in the election, and this is important, you have seen tonight

02:08:29.260 the extreme differences between the perspectives of these parties.

02:08:33.300 We need Canadians to make the right choice so we can move forward together.

02:08:38.180 We're out of time.

02:08:39.120 Evan, thank you.

02:08:40.240 Leaders, thank you for your participation tonight.

02:08:43.400 That's it for the English Language Leaders Debate.

02:08:46.600 Voting day is September 20th.

02:08:49.440 Get your ballots.

02:08:50.980 Make sure you're registered on behalf of the Leaders Debate Consortium.

02:08:59.220 Good evening.

02:09:00.660 I'm Derek Fuldebrandt.

02:09:02.400 Welcome to a special edition of the Pipeline.

02:09:06.080 Tonight, we're going to be analyzing the federal leaders' debate of this election we're in right now.

02:09:14.280 Tonight, I'm joined by Jonathan Dennis, who's staring into a mysterious corner of his office.

02:09:22.500 Jonathan is the former Minister of Justice and Solicitor General of Alberta.

02:09:26.680 He currently has a practice in Calgary Guardian Law.

02:09:29.360 How do you do, Jonathan?

02:09:31.040 Doing really well. How are you, Derek?

02:09:32.320 I don't know. I just watched that, so it could be better. We're also just joined by Jeff Calloway.

02:09:40.500 Jeff Calloway is the former president of the Wild Rose Party of Alberta under both Danielle

02:09:46.860 Smith and Brian Jean, and he is the president and CEO of High Ground Medica in Calgary. How

02:09:53.560 you doing jeff can you hear us okay seems uh jeff is either on mute or cannot hear us uh so uh our

02:10:07.720 folks in technical will have to work this out there we go uh oh jeff how you doing yep good

02:10:14.680 well uh gentlemen uh we've had three french debates and one about climate change and quebec

02:10:22.200 uh quite something i know you are all watching with me um why don't you give us your initial

02:10:28.040 thoughts let's start with uh with you jeff you know um with the green party leader i mean i'm

02:10:35.400 putting in this no particular order but with the green party leader it was basically a message of

02:10:39.720 can't we all just get along uh with blanchette you know he he's obviously this isn't his uh home

02:10:46.440 turf that he's debating on right now being the english language debate but he did seem a little

02:10:50.840 more um uh common composed i i guess and obviously everything just revolves around sending more money

02:10:57.960 to to uh quebec and you know logic be damned uh let's just stop all resource development uh

02:11:05.400 dismiss all those you know foreign oil tankers running into into quebec to to keep them their

02:11:11.800 economy going um so that was interesting trudeau you know he's a little bit combative i i do have

02:11:17.880 to say he was probably he talked a little bit about the most substantive things in his government

02:11:22.520 but the problem is he's been there for six years and frankly he is just a lot of show in instead

02:11:29.000 of a lot of a lot of action we're all pretty well aware of the uh the big promises that he

02:11:34.200 makes and then he never actually does uh fall through i was glad that i didn't make a bet with

02:11:39.800 you guys to um uh and start a drinking game about every time harper's name was mentioned because i 1.00

02:11:46.840 think we'd all be on the floor about uh 30 minutes into the uh into the debate so um as far as o'tul

02:11:54.760 goes you know he's probably the he's the leader obviously that on the stage that was calling for

02:12:02.200 he was the only one frankly that really called for any kind of uh spending constraint which is

02:12:07.000 uh speaks to affordability in this in this um election and in the country because of course

02:12:13.080 if you've got a government a federal government actually pushing policies and legislation that

02:12:20.440 are going to really increase the cost of living which i thought was actually quite ironic and

02:12:26.280 hypocritical to have a whole topic on on affordability and more or less all of their

02:12:32.280 answers revolved around increasing more spending for everyone because ultimately that all just 0.77

02:12:39.880 hits the pocketbooks of of average Canadians um this we need a government that actually gets some

02:12:46.120 of their spending under control didn't hear much detail on that tonight but I would say that O'Toole

02:12:50.360 definitely um was the only one that um at least hinted at that um it's always not not exactly

02:12:57.160 politically popular but we are getting to a point where there's a lot of desperation in in Canada

02:13:01.800 and I would I think the clear uh contrast to that is actually uh Singh who his answer was just

02:13:08.600 basically keep spending more money on everything over and over and you're not spending enough.

02:13:14.280 Clearly, that would be an economic disaster for Canada. If you think affordability is bad now,

02:13:19.720 I mean, you'll just see the Canadian dollar decline and debts rise. And we've been through

02:13:25.320 some tough times in past decades in this country dealing with overspending governments. Trudeau's

02:13:31.320 father, a big culprit of that. And that never ends up well. So he was probably, I would say,

02:13:38.280 almost the most uh concerning of the the speakers i i heard tonight um and i will say actually for

02:13:46.520 someone uh you know looking at even there was an equals poll that was out today that's indicated

02:13:52.520 that uh bernie's ppc party is at 11 and at 19 in alberta and of course but the only thing we heard

02:14:00.120 about alberta tonight is how they want to shut down lines and you know alberta is such a bad

02:14:05.080 a bad place more or less and we should uh shut down our economy but other than that i think he

02:14:10.360 would have provided a very differentiated viewpoint uh relative to the other leaders that were on

02:14:15.880 on stage tonight so okay well i asked for general thoughts i didn't uh i didn't need

02:14:22.120 every chapter of the book there jeff uh thanks okay uh jonno um i know you're watching this

02:14:28.760 this with anticipation you're obviously a close political watcher uh well give us your general

02:14:35.080 thoughts we're gonna we're gonna dive into each of the leaders and some of the major um happenings

02:14:39.300 that took place in the debate but uh why don't you give us your general thoughts about uh how

02:14:45.000 the evening went so full disclosure i did work on aaron o'toole's uh leadership campaign and i am a

02:14:50.240 conservative party member and supporter that being said the first observation i had is i really did

02:14:55.160 not like the moderator this evening.

02:14:56.760 I felt she was constantly interrupting.

02:15:01.100 I felt that she was quite fly.

02:15:02.340 She asked some very leading questions of both the Bloc Quebecois

02:15:06.600 and Conservative leaders with preconceived notions,

02:15:11.380 the type of thing like, well, I'm a lawyer, okay,

02:15:13.580 so the type of thing in court that you could not ask your own witness.

02:15:16.860 You can't ask your own witness leading questions.

02:15:18.760 So I didn't really like the debate that much.

02:15:23.620 The biggest issue, though, I really think that he talked about at the beginning

02:15:26.900 was leadership and accountability.

02:15:29.180 The big thing I take about this is that I didn't even watch Jimmy Kimmel tonight

02:15:33.500 because the biggest joke was the NDP and the fact they don't know how to pay

02:15:37.100 for their promises.

02:15:38.260 They've never formed a federal government before,

02:15:40.400 and so they can promise these pie-in-the-sky programs with no idea how to pay

02:15:46.100 for them, whatever, other than quips like, we're going to tax billionaires.

02:15:49.140 Well, there's very few billionaires in this country.

02:15:50.600 they got a lot of money but at the same time that is just a quick design to appeal to their left-wing

02:15:56.760 base of voters um i thought that the bloc quebec well lost a lot of credibility when he talked

02:16:03.320 about uh i complained people about racism but at the same time he supports these uh religious

02:16:08.920 restriction laws in in quebec which don't even satisfy a charter challenge they've got anything

02:16:13.720 about the notwithstanding laws i would say o'toole had the nicest time uh but i would say that o'toole

02:16:19.720 really is looking more and more like a polished leader uh trudeau was on the defensive the entire

02:16:26.360 time and i really he starts to speak fast even as maybe as fast as i even speak but he felt i really

02:16:33.720 felt that he feels the pressure here he's been down on the polls the last few weeks and uh he

02:16:40.600 began this election it really reminds me of a couple of governments david peterson syndrome in

02:16:45.080 1990 you call an early election and you end up losing we don't have a reason for this election

02:16:50.280 all the other party leaders brought this up because that's clearly something on the minds

02:16:53.880 of the canadian voter why are we going to an election we have an international crisis in

02:16:58.200 afghanistan and on top of that we have a coveted pandemic here there was no need for this election 1.00

02:17:05.640 yeah i got to pick up on that that point there jonathan um there was i felt not a lot of real

02:17:12.840 substance in in this uh debate tonight uh we talked about affordability but just the nature

02:17:18.680 of the debate everyone ends up uh giving a few talking points and there's not a lot of

02:17:22.920 uh real substantive the question is i give them credit uh for trying to nail them down on some

02:17:27.320 specific topics but they all are used to um well there's a saying about question period in ottawa

02:17:34.600 there's a reason why it's called question period not answer period so they're actually they're all

02:17:39.560 very well practiced at avoiding, you know, anything substantive and being pinned down.

02:17:46.920 But, you know, one of the things that, I mean, honestly, is a little bit near and dear to my

02:17:52.920 heart that I think a lot of Canadians have really noticed over the past few weeks is just that

02:17:58.760 tragedy in Afghanistan and what we see is unfolding with the Taliban coming back into power there.

02:18:04.600 um you know canada and western canadians albertans wherever you are on the spectrum or however you

02:18:10.280 feel about canada i think we do honestly share some real common values about who we are as a

02:18:15.940 country our history uh how we are a country that uh a number of peoples who have come here to create

02:18:22.020 better lives uh we share uh with the with each other willingly uh we want the best for people

02:18:29.380 We are a beacon of hope. We've got a proud peacekeeping history as a nation. And yet we've got a government in this Trudeau government that had fair warning from our, you know, intelligence services and from partners around the world.

02:18:47.340 And yet it was this government, Trudeau, who is still technically prime minister right now, who have the ability and the authority to save like literally hundreds of people's lives.

02:18:59.960 Canadians, people who were wanting to emigrate from Afghanistan, people who have helped our Canadian forces and volunteers and contractors over in Afghanistan to help them create a better life as a democratic country and to provide opportunity for women and to provide education for people.

02:19:19.100 And it's absolutely morally abhorrent that we have abandoned those the people in in Afghanistan that were, you know, standing in sewage ditches, trying to cling to landing gears on airplanes, trying to flee just what is an absolute tragedy.

02:19:36.540 I mean, we saw today that, you know, sorry, Afghanistan, the Taliban, they appointed a, you know, a central banker whose profile picture has them holding a, you know, a big, huge weapon with no actually formal understanding.

02:19:52.800 You know that country is going to, well, apparently it's a surprise to everyone except Trudeau what's going to be happening in that country.

02:19:59.280 But the point being that that is, that points to the values of our leadership.

02:20:04.480 what this election and what the the priorities of this um prime minister that we do have right

02:20:10.360 now are all about and that needs to be held accountable so you know even if you're not um

02:20:18.020 if you look at any like exclude everything else what what do we actually want in our leaders

02:20:24.660 no matter where you are in canada right now that that is as much as anything else something that

02:20:31.620 we as Canadians should think about

02:20:33.600 as we go to the polls on September 20th.

02:20:35.700 Okay.

02:20:37.920 So let's, I don't wanna make this all about the moderator,

02:20:40.660 but we'll just, I think let's just talk about that real quick,

02:20:43.060 get that out of the way.

02:20:43.900 I know Jono had some comments.

02:20:46.260 She did seem to be particularly partisan.

02:20:48.680 She, at least in the sense that she had a very strong

02:20:51.260 ideological point of view,

02:20:53.680 you know, the preambles of her questions.

02:20:56.340 She essentially accused Erin O'Toole

02:20:58.500 being a homophobic uh climate change conspiracy theorist or that he was harboring them uh those

02:21:05.460 are her words um so she she certainly didn't seem to have if i could jump in on that well hold on i

02:21:13.380 just thought i'm not gonna come back to you in a second johnny because you're the one who started

02:21:15.860 the moderator um but where i did think she was good i actually didn't mind her interruptions

02:21:21.700 for the most part she was i think really good at keeping them on time and on topic because you know

02:21:27.220 know you've got five leaders up there they're talking over each other already quite a bit as

02:21:31.140 it is and it is hurting cats it's it's a pretty thankless job being the moderator of a debate

02:21:35.640 like that when the stakes are so high uh i think she did a pretty good job of keeping order keeping

02:21:40.040 them on topic i think it was just um you know her ideology obviously came through it's difficult

02:21:45.880 for it to not come through uh but but also just the the debate commission the way it selected

02:21:50.480 these questions was was ridiculous these kind of broad themes where we talked only about a couple

02:21:55.060 of things all night we talked about climate change for roughly a third or a quarter of this

02:22:00.660 uh i mean obviously uh first nations reconciliation i think absolutely deserves some time

02:22:05.860 maybe not a quarter because there's a lot of topics to get to i mean there wasn't even a

02:22:10.060 it wasn't a section reserved for afghanistan i think there was some uh popular outcry uh they

02:22:15.700 got at least a question slipped into there under one of those topics um but you know there wasn't

02:22:21.120 Any section dedicated to balancing the budget, taxes, finances, the West, none of this.

02:22:28.480 So I think there was a pretty boring example.

02:22:31.140 Finances.

02:22:31.740 It was just about spending more money.

02:22:33.520 That was the answer.

02:22:35.520 Yeah.

02:22:36.100 Well, there was no questions or there was at least no segment about balancing the budget

02:22:39.200 or a segment about finances.

02:22:41.380 Evan Sullivan at the end got in a tiny little question, which Trudeau did not answer about

02:22:45.360 balancing the budget.

02:22:46.560 And everybody took that for granted because there obviously is no plan.

02:22:49.160 It'll do it.

02:22:49.640 It'll balance itself.

02:22:50.340 but um uh i don't know i i think being a moderator of a debate like that is tough uh i'm pretty

02:22:55.940 unforgiving of it um but her ideology aside i i think she did a pretty uh a good job in a tough

02:23:02.660 position there uh but i think jonah might disagree with me oh is jonathan gone well you know what

02:23:10.500 i'll just pick up on what you were saying there derek about uh you know one of her questions was

02:23:15.300 you know given 25 percent of canadians are skeptical about climate change how do you

02:23:21.780 propose we get to unanimity and i'm just thinking to myself okay like no matter what you're thinking

02:23:28.020 here apparently the the moderator thinks we've got to get to 100 group think on on a particular

02:23:35.140 topic i mean it's kind of a similar uh thing regarding uh you know vaccinations i i i'm very

02:23:42.500 pro pro vaccination myself but i also believe it should be a you know personal personal choice but

02:23:48.020 this is why we live in a free country where people can make these choices and that's that's

02:23:52.660 got to be respected i think that we are seeing you know in all of the the commentary that we're

02:23:57.780 hearing from the leaders tonight you know bigger programs more spending more controls more more

02:24:03.460 more more more more all across the board and i think actually the aptn um uh questionnaire was

02:24:10.180 kind of interesting in in her comments about holding true trudeau to account on on providing

02:24:15.860 resources for first nations and the reserves how you know yeah there's been more spending there's

02:24:22.100 a whole there's two big new departments on to deal with first nations but and and trying to help the

02:24:28.740 first nations but none of it actually gets down to the to the reserve you know it just results in

02:24:35.380 more bureaucracy more programs so and trudeau even so i want to run through so i want to run

02:24:42.260 through uh the different leaders on the stage here um actually maybe we will start first uh

02:24:48.820 you had mentioned this we'll start before we go through the leaders let's start with the leader

02:24:52.180 who was not there uh maxime bernier leader of the people's party of canada uh not invited by

02:24:58.420 the federal government's debate commission um i mean they had a certain set of criteria about

02:25:04.340 how to get in that he did not meet apparently at first uh he had to have an average of four

02:25:08.820 percent in the polls to qualify to get in and uh apparently he was just below that when they were

02:25:15.220 doing their polling average but he has since then far far exceeded the polling requirements to get

02:25:20.260 in uh ecos today had him at 11. main street i think has gone around nine uh either way he is

02:25:26.820 um the very clear fourth party right now well ahead of the greens all cory morgan has decided

02:25:32.740 to pop out of his hole.

02:25:35.140 Okay, well, we're going to go to Corey in a second here.

02:25:38.080 But we're going to go through each of the leaders.

02:25:40.240 But right now we're going through Maxime Bernier,

02:25:42.240 who was not invited.

02:25:43.800 He's now well ahead of the polls that are required

02:25:45.860 for him to get in in fourth place.

02:25:49.180 As I said, Ico's having him at 11,

02:25:50.780 has him right on the tail of the NDP, which is at 15.

02:25:53.780 I mean, just another four points and he'd be tied for third.

02:25:58.100 I think it was a shame that he was not there,

02:26:00.580 even if you don't like what he has to say.

02:26:02.740 at least it would have added some variety and some,

02:26:06.940 I think it was such a polarized and loud debate

02:26:12.320 for five leaders who seem to more or less agree

02:26:15.500 on all of the big questions.

02:26:17.380 The only debate seemed to be on

02:26:19.960 some rather marginal differences,

02:26:21.820 disagreements on the margins about how to implement

02:26:24.900 some of these big ideas, which they all agree with.

02:26:28.080 I think it would have really added some spice

02:26:30.240 If we had Bernier on the stage, unfortunately he wasn't.

02:26:33.940 But let's go to Corey.

02:26:36.860 Just your thoughts on Bernier's exclusion from the debate

02:26:40.800 and what it might have meant for him to have been involved.

02:26:46.700 Well, it would have brought a unique perspective in.

02:26:48.860 I mean, I think most of what this debate ended up coming out about

02:26:52.080 was how the leaders were presenting themselves.

02:26:53.940 I didn't see much new in policy or approaches.

02:26:56.080 It was all pretty predictable out of them.

02:26:57.720 we heard everything we'd expect to hear from them

02:27:00.460 Bernier would have brought in

02:27:02.540 I mean one voice for smaller government

02:27:04.800 one voice

02:27:05.620 unapologetically speaking against

02:27:08.220 restrictions and lockdowns whether people agree with it

02:27:10.520 or not because there was no real

02:27:12.080 debate on any of that

02:27:14.240 and yeah it was a loss

02:27:16.560 not to have that voice whether one agrees with it or not

02:27:18.740 I mean Annemie Paul

02:27:19.700 did what she could but realistically

02:27:22.120 she's not representing much it's a party in shambles

02:27:24.740 and that spot

02:27:26.760 would have been better held by bernier well i would tend to agree with cory there because uh

02:27:31.720 i have a really difficult time the fact that they allowed the green party which they should but then

02:27:36.840 again they they exclude bernie i'm not a bernie supporter so why did they exclude him he's running

02:27:41.960 a full slate of candidates just like the green party yeah okay well um i want to go through

02:27:49.720 each of the leaders who were at the debate uh i've got fairly extensive notes on everyone except for

02:27:54.360 trudeau i mean i i just found that very little of trudeau stuck out uh the main note i've got

02:28:02.200 form on my uh in my in my notepad here is that he uh he was asked about why we're having an

02:28:07.640 election right now when all of the parties in the house of commons are supporting him there

02:28:11.640 he has no question about holding the confidence of the house of commons he continued to govern

02:28:15.000 for a full four years stick to the fixed election date which is established by law um he was asked

02:28:21.000 why and he just could not answer that question that's actually the biggest question he has to

02:28:25.160 answer that's a i mean uh that's the question every leader who call every premier every prime

02:28:32.600 minister that calls an early election needs to be able to answer on the very first day of the

02:28:37.720 election why are we having an election and if that answer is not a good and compelling answer

02:28:43.480 at least enough to make people forget about it they get into trouble and uh i mean you know

02:28:49.720 You know, in my experience, and John, are you in that election too?

02:28:53.520 Jim Prentice tried to frame a question about why we're in an early election in Alberta.

02:28:57.980 At least he had an answer.

02:28:59.400 And it was certainly a lot more compelling than Justin Trudeau's.

02:29:01.860 It was still not a good answer.

02:29:03.000 And he paid a big price for that because people were still talking about this early election come debate day.

02:29:08.240 And we're on debate day now.

02:29:09.940 And we're still talking about having an early election.

02:29:12.380 Justin Trudeau was not able to answer that.

02:29:13.960 But otherwise, he seemed defensive, angry, both defensive and offensive, but flailing around, trying to land a punch because he's behind in polls.

02:29:27.480 I mean, under the current vote, he probably quite possibly still continues as prime minister of a minority government.

02:29:34.020 But I'd like to go to each of your thoughts about how Justin Trudeau in particular performed in the debate.

02:29:40.760 Let's go to Jeff.

02:29:41.820 yeah well i mean he he was a little bit of a little bit feisty he's got a lot to answer for

02:29:47.820 he's got a lot of um words and and show uh he as sing pointed out that he likes to uh

02:29:57.260 you know voice he says a lot of things he performs uh a lot but at the end of the day

02:30:03.420 just like what that uh aptn uh interviewer stated you're you're spending a bunch of money you're the

02:30:09.980 bureaucracy is growing like crazy so you maybe that's his job creation program is more bureaucrats

02:30:16.620 but uh besides that there's little to show on the ground and when you want to talk about

02:30:21.980 affordability his he repeated over a few times about you know i've got your back well i think

02:30:28.700 a lot of canadians feel like that's a knife in their back when they start looking at their

02:30:32.140 utility bills and looking at what the cost of food is in in their homes and you know

02:30:39.740 i i think that some of the leaders really could have uh really uh gone after him more forcefully

02:30:46.220 than that i mean they there was the the question from the senior uh on about you know affordability

02:30:52.780 and for seniors and you know it was basically just an answer of we've got a variety uh a grab bag of

02:30:59.500 you know more money to to to give to seniors i think really when you're a senior and you're

02:31:06.300 talking about affordability it it really is things like your your food your food bill your utility

02:31:11.980 bill uh the cost of gas and and a lot of those um issues and those affordability issues are caused

02:31:20.380 by the very government and are caused by the like the trudeau who's who's standing up there um

02:31:25.740 trying to speak about affordability and saying he's got your back no he doesn't okay um

02:31:32.860 do you think um like trudeau's i wouldn't say trudeau's behind he is technically behind one

02:31:38.460 or two maximum three points depending on which poll you look at although his vote is probably

02:31:43.500 more efficient because it's um not hyper concentrated like the conservative party vote

02:31:48.700 at least was in the west um so you know even if he was to get elected even with a minority

02:31:55.740 without the most seats, the minority, he might still continue as prime minister.

02:31:58.480 But either way, he is behind.

02:32:01.600 And his, you know, his visions of, you know, when a majority government was a twinkle in his eye

02:32:08.320 when he called this election, that seems to be gone.

02:32:11.400 Do you think he did what he had to do to try and make up that ground, consolidate the NDP's vote,

02:32:19.480 you know, that kind of progressive leftist vote behind him and try to punch down the conservatives a bit?

02:32:24.440 No, I really don't, actually.

02:32:25.760 He was on the defense of the entire evening.

02:32:28.980 He seemed very, very flustered, very, very irritated.

02:32:32.260 2015, the Liberals ran a quacker jack campaign.

02:32:34.900 None of us here voted for them, but they ran a great campaign.

02:32:37.160 They even elected two seats in Calgary for the first time in four years.

02:32:40.860 In 2019, it was okay.

02:32:42.820 This time, their campaign is in the toilet.

02:32:45.280 They're chasing their tail the entire time.

02:32:47.140 It reminds me of a government that I was a part of when many of us, including me, told the leader not to call an early election.

02:32:53.140 And then I drove down from Edmonton. I had knocked on the doors of all the supporters and they said, why are you calling your election? You're chasing your tail the entire time. It's also very interesting, though, that Trudeau himself has lamented, you know, I might call another election in 18 months. Well, you know, why are we why are we doing this? There's no purpose for this election.

02:33:14.460 The interesting time, though, I just want to address one other comment that you had made, Derek.

02:33:19.380 In past elections, Conservatives had to be at least five points up because the vote is so consolidated.

02:33:25.640 Alberta, Saskatchewan, a bit of Manitoba, Eastern B.C.

02:33:29.040 This time, though, O'Toole's numbers are actually down a bit in Alberta.

02:33:32.840 We can talk about that later.

02:33:34.440 But they're up a bit in Ontario.

02:33:36.340 The other thing is that I've always believed that Conservatives have a higher voter turnout.

02:33:41.040 they've had some of the best data the best voting machine the best get out the vote programs and i

02:33:47.200 do think that conservative supporters are a little bit more motivated governments aren't elected

02:33:52.000 they are unelected and in this particular instance the people that want trudeau gone are going to be

02:33:57.680 more motivated to vote than the people that want to stay for a third term yeah uh okay let's turn

02:34:04.640 towards conservative leader Aaron O'Toole. I mean, in the absence of having Bernier on stage,

02:34:11.200 he got to look the conservative a bit. But I, you know, Justin Trudeau kept on repeating,

02:34:17.040 I can't emphasize how big the differences are between us. You need to make the right choice.

02:34:21.200 These parties are so different. And Aaron O'Toole's strategy seems very deliberately to be

02:34:28.160 the polar opposite of that. Try to minimize the differences that, you know,

02:34:32.720 So you can have essentially more or less the same government, but you can have a more competent and less corrupt and less narcissistic person leading it, trying to really play down those differences.

02:34:46.360 I mean, the first question that went to Erin O'Toole from the moderator, which I specifically pointed out, essentially said, you know, you call these crackerjacks in your party homophobes and people who are climate conspiracy, climate theory conspiracist, her terms.

02:35:06.600 um who's driving the bus and uh is it you or the caucus and erin o'toole uh said very pointedly

02:35:14.020 i'm driving the bus saying forget those guys they're essentially an electoral college and

02:35:19.960 he's not incorrect that's the way the system works right now the mbs the caucus have remarkably

02:35:24.100 little power in our system of government right now so he wasn't lying when he said that but he

02:35:28.320 was going to pains to say he is the conservative party now he's saying i am the new leader of the

02:35:33.500 new conservative party trying to put a different coat of paint on things. He went to Payne's to

02:35:39.840 talk about his, I'll use his terms, climate pricing, saying I am going to put a price

02:35:45.180 on climate change, etc. He did not call it a carbon tax. He has never called his carbon tax

02:35:51.000 a carbon tax. He didn't call it here, probably aware that calling it that is probably a bridge

02:35:55.940 too far for supporters with his right flank already under significant fire from Bernier and

02:36:01.080 PPC. What I really wanted to see, and we'll talk a little bit about Blanchet in a bit,

02:36:07.400 he had one really great moment, and Blanchet promised he would do this in the French debate.

02:36:12.120 In the French debate, apparently, because I don't speak it, Blanchet, O'Toole apparently

02:36:19.480 said that there should be no pipelines through Quebec, and he apparently said that in French.

02:36:25.000 um taking translations at their word for it here um and that night during the french debate

02:36:32.940 blanchette said are you going to say that same sentence in english and uh tonight blanchette

02:36:42.160 had quite a moment a moment and he said uh you know in the french debate you said there should

02:36:47.400 be no pipelines in quebec will you repeat it right now in english uh o'toole did not reply

02:36:53.600 He just kind of smiled, played with the button on his jacket, and that was that.

02:36:57.980 The moderators let him go because it wasn't his turn to speak anyway,

02:37:00.620 but he probably could have intervened if he wanted to.

02:37:03.140 That was a very interesting moment for me.

02:37:07.320 Blanchett was playing, again, I don't want to make this too much about Blanchett,

02:37:10.540 but that stood out as a very weak point, probably the weakest point for O'Toole in the debate.

02:37:16.900 That's kind of my summation, but why don't we go back to you, Jeff,

02:37:20.880 about how you thought O'Toole did this evening.

02:37:23.600 Yeah, you know, I don't, I didn't see any big moments. In fact, actually, if I actually had, I think the biggest moment of the debate was probably that Merrick fellow, the 18 year old kid who was asking about reconciliation.

02:37:41.080 So it's never a good thing when you've got a regular 18-year-old kid citizen who at least in my mind had the high point in the debate and held the leaders to account.

02:37:55.020 But, you know, I will just kind of go back to a more of an overall political strategy type of perspective for O'Toole.

02:38:02.560 It's clearly they're running a different kind of a campaign versus the Shear campaign a couple of years ago.

02:38:08.000 So, you know, they were running up the score in lots of constituencies or ridings where they were, you know, great.

02:38:14.900 You went from 75% to 80% or 60% to 70%.

02:38:19.200 It doesn't matter.

02:38:20.240 You're going to win.

02:38:21.180 But you got to go and win a bunch of those tough ridings in Ontario.

02:38:25.000 So they've taken away all of the objections that have typically been thrown at the Conservative Party.

02:38:32.740 I'll say these are politicians that we're talking about.

02:38:34.920 So sometimes their promises don't always, aren't always followed through.

02:38:38.500 I think that there is going to be, I am confident that the Conservative Party would definitely be much better than this Liberal government on a number of fronts as a government.

02:38:49.700 That being said, I think it's also very clear we're going to be in a minority government.

02:38:52.880 But at least you would get a much better government than what we're facing, what we're faced with today.

02:38:59.560 So on items like, you know, kind of the flop, the flip flop that we saw from Motul, or if you want to call it a clarification, but probably more like a flip flop on on the gun issue, basically accepting Trudeau's position, you know, call it a levy, a fee or a tax.

02:39:16.760 It's a tax is a tax is a tax at the end of the day. And it is a it is a type of carbon tax that he's basically backing.

02:39:24.540 so you know he's taken away a lot of that ammunition from um his opponents particularly

02:39:31.180 the liberals and so i see the strategic value of that take away the opposition square the elections

02:39:37.640 like focus it on on trudeau and that people are getting tired of of trudeau as the leader they're

02:39:43.900 getting tired of the of the empty words and so uh and people are maybe looking for a bit of a

02:39:50.720 a change uh like it this this could be a bit of a has the opportunity to at least be a bit of a

02:39:57.520 change election and that's really what the in my view what the conservative party uh platform is

02:40:03.200 is about i mean i'll get on my hobby horse i think they should be nailing um trudeau and

02:40:08.720 this liberal government on on the values of canadians and how they walked away from that

02:40:13.760 at least in as shown very bluntly in in canada's actions in or lack of action in afghanistan but

02:40:20.880 anyways okay uh well we'll try to keep it uh tighter here because we want to get through

02:40:27.840 uh through everything before we go on too long uh quickly um jonathan uh how do you think uh

02:40:34.960 o'toole came out tonight do you think he achieved what he needed to achieve

02:40:38.640 the biggest thing o'toole needs to achieve is he needs to show stability and confidence i think

02:40:43.120 think he did both of those things very well he came across as a very polished debater uh his

02:40:48.860 cadence his confidence uh and just his air were all better than trudeau's and that is what he had

02:40:56.180 to do people know who justin trudeau is people don't know erin o'toole that well so he has to

02:41:01.840 do that much better in the debate and while there was no knockout punch the only one in a canadian

02:41:07.760 prime ministerial debate I can recall is in 1984 when Mulroney knocked Turner out on his

02:41:13.120 on totally knocked him out uh there wasn't a knockout punch but I think O'Toole needed to do

02:41:19.880 what he needed what he was doing to solidify the vote that he had and perhaps expand it further

02:41:26.020 either way here though we're in a minority government situation we're going to be having

02:41:30.080 these these discussions in 1824 months again okay yeah I want to say one thing too you know we've

02:41:36.060 seen just a little bit of decrease in the momentum of the conservative party here i think in the last

02:41:41.100 handful of days and it seems to be somewhat related to the to the gun issue being brought

02:41:46.780 up i'm not actually commenting on the flip-flop or otherwise it just seems to be come up and so

02:41:51.100 i have to say i was actually a little surprised that it uh it wasn't brought up more against

02:41:56.060 o'toole tonight so i think it actually worked in you know tools favor and i'd agree with jonathan

02:42:00.460 that he he put in a composed polished performance. He's a very accomplished individual himself. He's

02:42:08.700 very smart. He's very disciplined. And, you know, that's, I think, a great credit to him as a leader

02:42:14.940 and potentially the next prime minister of this of this country. So. Okay. All right. So as I said,

02:42:21.740 we're going to try and keep it quick here so we can get through and relatively timely fashion.

02:42:26.780 And Blanchet seemed to give a don't-give-an-F vibe the entire debate.

02:42:36.600 He obviously has the lowest stakes.

02:42:38.840 I don't think many unilingual anglophones were changing their vote tonight

02:42:46.100 about if they're going to vote for the Bloc Québécois or not.

02:42:49.600 So this is really just he's kind of playing to the home crowd in this sense.

02:42:52.760 It's almost like an away game.

02:42:53.980 You know, this is like Calgary playing in Montreal. You get to show off what you're doing away. And so in that sense, you know, he was very antagonistic towards English Canada. Very, you know, talked about, he said the bloc would put a cap on Western energy production.

02:43:15.180 I hadn't actually heard that before. I don't know if that was a policy that he's had yet or not, but it was absolutely flabbergasting for a leader that claims to represent Quebec, which takes an incredible amount of wealth from Western Canadians on a daily basis to fund its operations, would say so, but not altogether surprising from what we know.

02:43:36.180 He had a great line. He says, I'm not that interested in running Canada, but let me tell you why I should be at this debate anyway. It was kind of a funny line, but I thought he made actually a fairly compelling argument about why, at least from the perspective of a Quebec nationalist, why the Bloc Québécois should hold the balance of power.

02:43:58.320 He says, you know, some of these parties are bad, some of them are slightly less bad.

02:44:05.120 And you know which, you know, the characters know who they are on the stage here.

02:44:08.200 But none of them deserve a majority.

02:44:10.360 They need a watchdog.

02:44:11.780 And it will be an advantageous position for the Bloc Québécois to hold the balance of power and be the watchdog on the big parties forming government and parliament.

02:44:20.840 And I thought that was actually a pretty salient argument about why the Bloc Québécois, from the perspective of a Quebecer, is actually a very good option, regardless of what side of the political spectrum you're on. 0.72

02:44:35.760 But what really stood out with the bullshit for me was how every question was about Quebec.

02:44:41.800 You know, we had this entire segment about First Nations reconciliation. 0.97

02:44:44.740 And essentially his answer to them all was, yes, First Nations have been mistreated, but you know who else has been mistreated? The Quebec nation. Yes, First Nations didn't sign treaties giving up their sovereignty. And you know who else didn't sign a treaty giving up their sovereignty? The Quebec nation.

02:45:02.480 everything was about him everything was about Quebec and it got almost sad comical at a time

02:45:11.220 it's almost funny if it wasn't such a serious topic but I'll go to yeah yeah yeah you know just

02:45:29.060 going to blend yet i i actually thought one of his his best answers tonight was when um

02:45:34.020 uh was it rose rosie barton was uh trying to to catch him on the seniors funding and

02:45:41.140 you know he kind of started to give an answer and she kind of like doubled down on on her question

02:45:46.260 and you know he he kind of paused a little bit and thought you know um no i i thought there was

02:45:52.580 a bit of a touch of emotion there and he talked about how these people have that have been working

02:45:56.740 their entire lives why shouldn't they also get uh the benefit of that in i guess the nature of the

02:46:01.540 question was why should you give all seniors uh money instead of only uh say some those who

02:46:06.660 actually need it themselves and you know his point was like you know these people have worked hard

02:46:10.900 and contributed and and they need it so i actually thought that that was pretty interesting but you

02:46:16.340 know just to kind of pick up on how you talked about putting a cap on western energy production

02:46:20.980 he's clearly over and over and over always answers in whatever is in quebec's best

02:46:26.100 interests and he'll take money from anywhere and anyone across across canada to do it and it's

02:46:31.140 never enough you know just more more more but at the same time and you know quebec rights expect 1.00

02:46:36.820 you know uh respect our nation respect our province everyone else but out uh but you know

02:46:43.220 what you can't produce energy and i and i'm going to be totally on board in in supporting uh whoever

02:46:49.460 is if it's a liberal or god help us a an ndp government uh you know stop the economy uh from

02:46:57.140 growing in and in western canada that's just quite quite fine by him to to support so it's quite a

02:47:04.020 bit of hypocrisy uh there on his part and and also let's just be frank double down here he's got a

02:47:09.140 couple refineries in in quebec that they just they seem quite fine you know taking oil in from

02:47:14.100 from saudi arabia so anyway but i will say the only other comment i'd have is

02:47:21.060 um i don't know if you guys might remember there was a movie back in the early 90s with

02:47:26.500 kevin klein that was called dave and it's about the uh a guy the the actual president dies and

02:47:33.140 then they they find this like a community uh job finder guy a job search guy they bring him in and

02:47:40.260 install him as president because he's got a remarkable resemblance to the actual president

02:47:43.700 and he actually turns into this nice kind of relatable guy that uh comes in and uh acts as

02:47:51.460 president and i sort of had almost a little bit of that feeling tonight but again that's when you

02:47:56.420 don't really have much on the table you get to be a little more just natural and and uh less caring

02:48:03.220 um okay uh jonathan uh do you uh you blanchette uh has he got your vote you go back the block

02:48:14.080 well uh first off i live in alberta so i have no option to vote for the block but

02:48:18.580 i will just offer this this comment who could argue that the bloc quebecois has not been

02:48:23.940 successful in their mandate over the last about almost 30 years since bouchard broke through with

02:48:30.160 152 seats in the 93 election, formed the official opposition.

02:48:34.200 They've been very, very effective in turning the agenda to Quebec and raising the specter of Quebec separatism.

02:48:41.080 And as a result, we see where all the transfer payments go.

02:48:44.660 So I'll give Bonchette some credit.

02:48:46.460 He's breathed new life into it.

02:48:47.740 He did quite well in the 2019 election.

02:48:50.160 I will give him also credit that his English has improved.

02:48:52.420 And his English is sure a heck of a lot better than my French is.

02:48:54.680 But the blatant hypocrisy, he starts talking about, oh, we want to put caps in the oil sands.

02:49:02.680 Listen, the amount of oil that is being imported from politically unstable jurisdictions transported across the world when we have a politically stable supply of energy in Western Canada with high environmental standards, high social standards, again, in the same country.

02:49:22.840 Why are you opposed to these pipelines? And instead, you're you're incurring more fossil fuels, more emissions to bring the energy from across the world. It makes no sense.

02:49:34.660 okay um so the we're gonna go to discuss jaymeet singh and uh there was some other lady on the 1.00

02:49:43.620 stage uh i think she was the independent candidate for uh toronto center or something

02:49:49.180 she uh she was going on about the environment or something i'm not really sure who she was

02:49:54.080 uh i think she had one of those seinfeld puffy pirate shirts on uh but i couldn't quite tell 0.87

02:49:59.740 But Jagmeet Singh, I think, if he's your cup of tea, I think it comported himself well.

02:50:07.100 I mean, the man knows how to wear a suit.

02:50:10.220 I think he, I mean, his answer to everything was spend.

02:50:15.280 I think he got, it was unremarkable.

02:50:18.340 I don't think he's really, I don't think he's going to really break through too well,

02:50:21.560 but I don't think he made any big mistakes.

02:50:23.120 I think he more or less held his ground fairly well and certainly stood out more than that lady from Toronto running for MP somewhere.

02:50:36.480 Let's go to Jeff.

02:50:39.460 Sure. Just regarding Anne-Marie-Paul, just briefly, really, other than a little bit on the environment, her only answer was,

02:50:50.460 let's all just work together we just need to work together

02:50:54.480 yeah angle yeah it was it was totally she's gonna lose her seats elizabeth may might keep hers but 1.00

02:51:04.620 this is this election is gonna be a big down draft for the the green party that's that's just

02:51:10.600 the bottom line there um but besides i don't understand now sing obviously his answer is just

02:51:16.620 spend more money on on everything across the board you can't have a there's not a government program

02:51:21.480 or a program you can invent that you couldn't spend more money on and of course for Canadians

02:51:27.600 across the board it doesn't matter your economic situation in life uh everyone's going to get hit

02:51:33.480 at at the end of the day uh so that that it's just completely unfeasible but the other the other thing

02:51:39.600 that really struck me through the debate is he has a nice way uh about him in in communicating

02:51:45.180 and you know a bit of a smile and you know coming from the old wild rose days danielle smith used to

02:51:50.400 be very good at this too she could she could deliver uh tough news or a tough line or a 1.00

02:51:55.760 tough bit of love but as she said if you just do it with a smile on your face people think it's

02:52:00.920 kind of okay and you know sing kind of has that ability to do something very similar on on that

02:52:07.740 front but when you actually listen to his words and if you took away the the voice and the the

02:52:13.960 picture and you read his words, he really acknowledges and I think stokes a lot of fear

02:52:22.720 and anxiety for people in society. And I think that is actually ultimately kind of a bit of a

02:52:35.040 dangerous quality, something I was just picking up on. I mean, you ask him a question and he's

02:52:41.040 empathetic and he acknowledges and then he um accentuates whatever whatever the the the thing

02:52:48.800 that's driving the that fear or that anxiety of of someone and that um it it it acknowledges it

02:52:58.720 rather than um and doubles down on it and i think that's it was just very apparent to me that

02:53:05.840 it's something that contributes to the division in society rather than you know let's sit down

02:53:13.020 and have approaching something more of a let's sit down and deal with the issue it's accentuating

02:53:20.260 those fearful feelings and so that I hadn't ever really I don't honestly listen to sing very often

02:53:28.880 admittedly but that was something that really kind of struck me tonight when so take away the

02:53:34.640 picture and the smile and you think about the transcript and you you can see that the politics

02:53:41.360 of fear anxiety and division really kind of coming out in his words actually uh jonathan uh do you

02:53:49.980 think that uh jagmeet singh made up any ground tonight uh or or how do you think he uh comported

02:53:57.220 himself so i really watched jagmeet singh and listen there is nothing you can do to make me

02:54:02.380 vote NDP okay but I'm going to say something nice about him he uh has really improved as a leader

02:54:08.540 he's a he articulates his image he's his point he speaks to his base um he's well uh well learned

02:54:15.700 he's a smart guy okay uh he obviously had a good background in the Ontario legislature as an MPP

02:54:22.080 the the the thing with the problem he has is that Trudeau has gone so far to the left how does he

02:54:29.740 define himself as different from Trudeau when he has been propping up the government on numerous

02:54:36.040 occasions. The Liberal Party today is much different from the Liberal Party of the 1990s.

02:54:43.520 Sure, under Chrétien and Martin, you got some annoying things like billion-dollar gun boondoggles

02:54:49.080 that no one on this podcast would support. But at the same time, you also got balanced budgets,

02:54:55.780 you got tax cuts they reduced capital gains tax uh they uh they championed our energy energy sector

02:55:02.100 uh they brought it the uh brought in an international free trade agreement uh i don't

02:55:07.860 see any of this type under trudeau it is a very very different liberal party much like his father

02:55:14.340 he has reached as far to the left as he can alienated western canada the question is how

02:55:21.060 does jagmeet singh define himself when trudeau has been eating his leftist lunch the last years

02:55:28.900 all right uh well i think we'll wrap it up there it's already been a long evening this broadcast

02:55:33.620 is uh god knows how long it's gone it's been going on since the the leaders debate uh started

02:55:38.980 uh i want to thank you both uh jonathan dennis and uh jeff calloway for joining me this evening

02:55:44.500 and all of you who have been watching uh some of you have stayed with us some of you have not

02:55:49.140 uh but it's been a long long broadcast uh i want to thank you all for uh for joining us if you're

02:55:54.500 not yet a member of the western standard go to westernonline.com and click on membership you can

02:55:58.820 try it free for 15 days uh you'll see if you'll like it uh if not well then i'm sad uh thank you

02:56:06.100 all very much for joining us this evening and God bless. Thank you.

Western Standard - September 10, 2021

Western Standard Presents： The 2021 Leaders' Debate

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