The Western Standard's mission is to provide a homegrown alternative to the big, government-owned and funded mainstream media in Western Canada. We're making a big difference, and that's why we're changing the conversation.
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00:02:54.000What are your thoughts on that debate?
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00:03:43.000Thank you for joining us at the Western Standard Conservative Party of Canada.
00:03:52.000Leadership sort of kind of revised format, not really a debate debate.
00:03:58.000Several months ago, we invited all of the eligible candidates for the Federal Conservative Party's leadership election
00:04:05.000to join us during the Calgary Stampede for a debate that would focus on Western issues.
00:04:10.000The West makes up four out of six Canadian provinces, drives the Canadian economy, and largely pays the bills around here and out there,
00:04:18.000but receives a disproportionately small focus of federal political attention.
00:04:24.000Or more accurately, a small positive focus of federal attention.
00:04:30.000The eight most terrifying words to a Westerner, and especially an Albertan, is,
00:04:35.000I'm from Ottawa, and I'm here to help.
00:04:38.000Our discussion today will focus on key themes and questions directly related to Westerners specifically,
00:04:45.000and federal issues of concern to all Canadians, but that are of particular importance to many Westerners.
00:04:51.000As I noted, all eligible candidates for the leadership were invited to debate here in Calgary.
00:04:57.000Four of the six candidates, Jean Charest, Patrick Brown, Roman Baber, and Scott Atchison, accepted.
00:05:04.000Two candidates, Pierre Polyarver and Leslyn Lewis, have unfortunately declined.
00:05:10.000And on Wednesday, the Conservative Party's leadership election organizing committee disqualified Patrick Brown.
00:05:19.000I have no real opinion on that, other than that it'll make for a less lively debate.
00:05:24.000With that, we've made a last-minute decision to revise the format of today's event,
00:05:29.000from that of a cut-and-thrust debate to that of a fireside chat.
00:05:32.000I was personally looking forward to seeing some stampede-style bull wrestling on stage today.
00:05:38.000But with three of the five candidates participating, there were requests from some campaigns to change the format to that of a fireside chat.
00:05:45.000So for the record, I'm obliged to note that Roman Baber was less than pleased with this change since he already brought his lasso.
00:05:54.000In place of the debate, I'm going to sit down with Mr. Atchison, Mr. Baber, and Mr. Charest, who I'll recall just the ABC,
00:06:02.000for a one-on-one discussion about why Westerners should consider them as a leader and as a Prime Minister that would have the best interests of the West at heart.
00:06:12.000I personally want to thank Mr. Scott Atchison, Mr. Roman Baber, and Mr. Jean Charest for having the guts and courtesy to join us here today
00:06:21.000in what most would probably call the beating heart of Canadian conservatism.
00:06:26.000Every politician in Canada shows up to the Calgary Stampede looking for votes.
00:06:31.000It's aptly been called a petting zoo for politicians.
00:06:34.000But Westerners deserve more than politicians who simply come on a plane, strap on a buckle, and don a hat.
00:06:41.000They deserve leaders that are willing to look them in the eyes and explain why they should be trusted with the loaded ammunition of democracy, your vote.
00:06:48.000With that, I'm going to introduce our first candidate today.
00:06:52.000The Honorable Jean Charest was born in Sherbrooke, Quebec.
00:06:55.000He was first elected to the House of Commons in 1984 as a Progressive Conservatives.
00:07:00.000Two years later, at the age of just 28, Mr. Charest became the youngest minister in Canadian history.
00:07:06.000And speaking of two, when the Progressive Conservatives under Kim Campbell were reduced to two seats in 1993,
00:07:12.000Mr. Charest was one of the only survivors, one of only two survivors.
00:07:16.000He went on to become the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party before running to become the Premier of Quebec,
00:07:21.000an office which he served in from 2003 until 2012.
00:07:25.000Since then, he has been in the private sector until making his re-entry into politics for this very race.
00:07:32.000So please join me in welcoming to the state the Honorable Mr. Jean Charest.
00:08:46.000You've served as the Premier of Quebec, and you served in the Mulroney government.
00:08:51.000But, you know, the last time when the Mulroney government kind of ended badly,
00:08:57.000as the National Conservative Coalition fragmented very much along regional lines.
00:09:02.000Why should Westerners trust you as, you know, coming from Quebec,
00:09:06.000and you have to defend the interests of your province when you're the Premier,
00:09:09.000why should Albertans look to you to have their best interests at heart?
00:09:13.000Now, Derek, and thank you, first of all, for the invitation and for pointing out that we,
00:09:18.000I think we accepted spontaneously, Roman and Scott and I, this invitation to be with you today.
00:09:25.000And I'm delighted to join you and to share some thoughts about this leadership race and to do it here in Alberta and Western Canada.
00:09:33.000Let me start by saying that, yes, I talked and I'm proposing an Alberta Accord.
00:09:39.000And there's a reason for that and the reason why I chose to come to Calgary on the very first day of my campaign.
00:09:46.000I'm very much running as someone who has a very deeply held belief in Canada.
00:09:52.000And that belief includes the reality and the fact that if we want this country to succeed, Alberta has to be at the very heart of what we do.
00:10:03.000It can't be on the sidelines. And what I wanted to do early on in the campaign is acknowledge the fact that a lot of Albertans today feel left out.
00:10:15.000They feel they've been set aside, that they're not recognized, that the rest of the country, not just the federal government,
00:10:21.000but the rest of the country has not acknowledged the fact that Alberta has gone through a very tough time.
00:10:27.000And yet when Alberta is prosperous and doing well, the rest of the country is very happy to share the wealth with Alberta, with the rest of all of Canada.
00:10:38.000And when times are not as good, well, all of a sudden, it's as though Albertan doesn't count anymore.
00:10:44.000And it's one of the reasons why I'm in this race, Derek, because I know from the experience I've had,
00:10:51.000and as someone who believes very deeply in Canada, that the only way this country can succeed is if Alberta is at the table,
00:11:00.000and participating in shaping the agenda of the country and its policies.
00:11:06.000It's what I believe in. And it's been the common thread of my whole political life.
00:11:11.000And so I'm here to say that not only do I think that's the case, but I also think it's important that we put it into policies.
00:11:23.000And I understand the anger and the disappointment.
00:11:26.000But the real question in a leadership race and for a leader is, what do you do after?
00:11:31.000What happens, what do you do if people are disappointed and they feel that anger?
00:11:35.000How do we translate that into something that is going to be substantive and real and change things?
00:11:43.000And that's what I want to do in this leadership race.
00:11:45.000And that's why I've proposed an Alberta Accord, starting with Alberta for all of Western Canada,
00:11:52.000but Alberta as the centre and the focus of how we need to change the country, starting with Alberta.
00:12:00.000So I want to talk about what that looks like. I mean, I don't have to remind anyone here, yourself or anyone attending.
00:12:07.000Is my microphone cutting out again? It's good? Okay.
00:12:15.000I was only ever in an opposition as a politician. So I only ever got to ask questions that answer them.
00:12:21.000Alberta and to a lesser extent, BC and Saskatchewan have paid a ton into equalization.
00:12:28.000Alberta pays into equalization, even when we're going through a bust, not just in the booms.
00:12:34.000We've got a boom right now. We'll probably screw it up again.
00:12:36.000But, you know, we do it even in busts. And at the same time, I think Albertans feel punished
00:12:43.000because despite the contribution of Alberta and the West more broadly, the federal government
00:12:48.000and some provinces go out of their way to hem us in from fully developing the resources that pay the bills nationally.
00:12:53.000So you put forward the idea of this Alberta Accord, the Cory Morgan Show, and this is going to involve equalization.
00:12:59.000Why don't you flesh out a bit more what you... I understand there's negotiation in these things.
00:13:04.000And it would be between you and premiers, Council of the Federation.
00:13:08.000But what would you see as a starting place for what this might look like?
00:13:12.000Well, I become leader of the party and were successful in forming a national government.
00:13:17.000And forming a national government also means including Alberta.
00:13:20.000In the first 30 days after my election, I would meet with the Premier of Alberta to start the process of defining what is going to be an Alberta Accord.
00:13:30.000And in the first six months of my mandate, I'd also meet with the provinces through the Council of the Federation that I was part of creating in 2003, the chair.
00:13:40.000A meeting that, by the way, would be co-chaired by whoever is the chair of the Council of the Federation and the Prime Minister.
00:13:49.000And that's not a matter of detail. We live in a federal system of government, ladies and gentlemen.
00:13:54.000Canadians tend to forget that. Certainly Ottawa does. They don't seem to be aware.
00:13:59.000In this federal system of government of ours, which is very decentralized, it is the provinces that run this country on a day-to-day basis.
00:14:07.000I know, I've been there. I've been on both sides. Education, health, I mean, you name it.
00:14:14.000And so we need to acknowledge that. And the provinces are not a sub-level in a federation of the federal government.
00:14:21.000They each work within their areas of jurisdiction.
00:14:24.000And so within the six months, the idea behind that, Derek, would be I would sit down to shape the agenda with the provinces.
00:14:32.000And then within the year, I would conclude an agreement, an Alberta Accord, that would be the lead province for all of Western Canada.
00:14:40.000It's not just about Alberta. It's also, as you mentioned, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and British Columbia, who may may not see itself as part of Western Canada.
00:14:49.000And the idea here is to conclude an agreement on a few subjects.
00:14:52.000First, equalization, making equalization fair for Alberta, which means that if you pay into equalization and when things are not as well, then you're not penalized for it.
00:15:04.000And that equalization has to be understood throughout the country as being an extraordinary contribution by those who have the good fortune of having an economy that's doing well,
00:15:14.000but other provinces have a responsibility also in regards to receiving equalization.
00:15:19.000The second issue would be I would I would be inspired by the Fair Deal panel is pensions.
00:15:27.000Quebec has a Quebec pension fund. They've done it since the 1960s.
00:15:32.000I think Alberta should have its share of the Canadian pension fund that goes to Albertans and do like Quebec has and has and run that own pension fund.
00:15:42.000By the way, I was in the House of Commons in the 1990s when the CPPIB was created.
00:15:47.000We had a debate at the time, very few people know this, about creating more than one fund instead of the mega CPPIB.
00:15:54.000Why? There were two reasons. One, to de-risk. If there were more than one fund, you wouldn't put all the eggs in the same basket.
00:16:02.000And two, to create more competition. Makes sense.
00:16:06.000Now, this is a significant for Alberta because if Alberta is running its own pension fund, this is a very powerful economic tool for Alberta.
00:16:16.000One you do not have now. You have the Alberta Investment Board, but this would be a very powerful tool.
00:16:22.000So the third, I know I'm taking a lot of time, but the third one's immigration. Quebec has a specific deal on immigration.
00:16:28.000Alberta should have the same deal. It's good for Quebec. It should be good for Alberta.
00:16:33.000And what would this allow you to do that you're not able to do now?
00:16:37.000Choose the immigrants that you want to bring in according to your priorities in the labor market, for example.
00:16:44.000The other area is a police force. If you wish and have an Alberta provincial police, that's fine. That's your decision.
00:16:51.000And as the federal prime minister who are responsible for the RCMP, I would facilitate that.
00:16:56.000And the fifth area would be trade, non-trade. So that would be the beginning of the Alberta Accord.
00:17:02.000A fresh start for Canada in regards to how we deal with Alberta and we deal with all of the country.
00:17:17.000So anyone who watches the pipeline will know I get very impressed with my ability to segue.
00:17:21.000And I'm equally impressed with myself right now. Alberta's going through a not-so-quiet revolution right now.
00:17:28.000You know, in the 1960s and early 70s, Quebec started to assert itself as, you know, Quebec nation or what have you, and to take back control.
00:17:37.000See this great segue? We had the firewall letter of 2001 signed by Stephen Harper and other, largely academics and some other people in the business community in Calgary.
00:17:47.000We had the Fair Deal panel in 2020. And I think, so the direction continues to get more aggressive in terms of what a lot of, at least a large segment of Alberta is demanding.
00:17:56.000Yeah. And Saskatchewan is, I think, coming along on some of these things.
00:18:00.000One of the major candidates for the leadership of the United Conservative Party of Alberta, Danielle Smith, has proposed something she calls the Alberta Sovereignty Act.
00:18:08.000I'm not sure how much you know about it, but this would more or less be an act that allows the legislature to declare certain federal legislation will just not be enforced in Alberta.
00:18:19.000It would be on the books, but it will not be enforced. Other provinces have experimented with things like this in the past, just not quite so brashly enshrined it in legislation.
00:18:28.000But there were things like that with drug policy in British Columbia over time, and Quebec has done it to one degree or another.
00:18:34.000If the Alberta Sovereignty Act passes and you were elected prime minister, how would you react to it?
00:18:41.000Well, and what you're describing in your introduction, by the way, is, you know, a move towards more autonomy of the provinces.
00:18:48.000There's nothing wrong with that, by the way, folks.
00:18:51.000I mean, again, Canada is one of the most decentralized federations in the world.
00:18:57.000The only other country that is more decentralized than Canada, and I hope there's no one from Belgium here, is Belgium, and no one understands how Belgium operates.
00:19:06.000And the best period is when they had no government for a year and a half.
00:19:10.000But Canada, and also one of the features of Canadian federalism, contrary to other federations, is that the provinces are responsible for natural resources.
00:20:04.000Let's take the environment, for example.
00:20:06.000You know, we could very well coordinate environmental processes so that whatever the provincial environmental process is, it is value for what the federal environment process is.
00:20:19.000You say, instead of doing two environmental processes, we're going to do one.
00:20:24.000Or there will be the provincial environmental process that the federal government recognizes as being the equivalent of what the federal government would do.
00:20:33.000That is the kind of intelligent thing you do in a federation that works.
00:20:38.000I understand, by the way, very well what Danielle Smith is saying in regards to how we operate our federation.
00:20:45.000And that's one of the reasons why I'm running, by the way, and why I think I would be, for this job, the right person, is that I actually think it'd be a breath of fresh air in Ottawa to have someone as prime minister who's been the premier of a province and who actually understands how the country operates.
00:21:01.000And what I'm going to say may surprise a lot of people.
00:23:00.000This in many respects has created a breach.
00:23:04.000This has been particularly difficult for conservative leaders to handle.
00:23:07.000I think as the libertarian portion, for lack of a better term, within the conservative coalition, I think has become probably a larger segment than it has been maybe in the past.
00:23:17.000And it's created a breach with those kinds of voters.
00:23:21.000It has arguably taken down the last conservative leader, Erin O'Toole.
00:23:25.000It, I think, very arguably took down the premier of Alberta.
00:23:29.000We're having two leadership races here.
00:23:32.000You know, you've been critical of Mr. Polyev and Mr. Baber's support of the Freedom Convoy.
00:23:40.000And I know that you've said you want to get rid of the remaining federal mandates.
00:23:46.000But I want to know if you believe that, at least the federal mandates, and I know the provincial ones are a whole other kettle of fish here.
00:24:33.000He was ahead of it and he paid a price for that.
00:24:37.000Now, on this issue, which is always a very difficult issue, I think the federal government, I can't follow what their positions are now.
00:24:44.000I think as we all started on this COVID episode, we all, no one had a playbook on how you do it.
00:24:51.000And I think we all cut slack for everyone, including whether it's Kenny Ford, whether it's Legault in Quebec or everyone.
00:24:57.000We're trying to figure out what is this and how do we deal with it and how do we protect people?
00:25:01.000One thing stands out in my experience and the Canadian experience relative to the rest of the world.
00:25:06.000It's our inability to treat people in hospitals, what we call our capacity.
00:25:10.000And that's what the main difference was between Canada and the United States.
00:25:15.000We did not have the hospital capacity to actually treat people.
00:25:18.000And that's something that speaks to a very urgent problem in the country.
00:25:22.000Our health care system was broken before COVID and it's been made worse.
00:25:27.000I would, as a prime minister, do something that some people think is attacking a sacred cow, especially federal liberals.
00:25:34.000I would table a new Canada Health Act.
00:25:37.000I would allow the provinces to innovate.
00:25:39.000I'd then tie their hands and allow them to bring in private sector care and remaining with a single payer so that we have a health care system to deliver services.
00:25:49.000And why? So that we not have lockdowns.
00:25:52.000So that we have a health care system that has the ability to absorb people who are sick, whether it's COVID or anything else.
00:25:58.000Now, right now, the confusion is, you know, in the federal government, we have to admit it's broken right now.
00:26:35.000I mean, the federal government, I don't know what game they're playing with this, but it doesn't make sense.
00:26:40.000And on this issue, now we're going to go through different waves.
00:26:45.000I think we're not going to go back into lockdowns, but please, let's have the courage and wherewithal to fix our healthcare system so that we don't have to contemplate the worst of solutions to deal with an epidemic.
00:26:56.000So I appreciate your answer around healthcare reform.
00:26:59.000That would obviously be a monumental change.
00:27:03.000And ICU capacity was one of the big distinguishing factors.
00:27:07.000I don't want to get my numbers wrong, but little Montana with about a quarter of our population just south of us had the same ICU capacity as Alberta.
00:27:16.000And that obviously means we have a greater stress on our system than the Americans had, and that would contribute to things like lockdowns, mask mandates, vaccine mandates.
00:27:44.000Do you believe it had, do you believe that there was ever any justification for federal vaccine mandates for, say, federal workers or travel?
00:27:50.000There was a lot of reasons to encourage people to get vaccinated.
00:27:51.000There was a lot of reasons to encourage people to get vaccinated.
00:28:51.000And looking into the future, Derek, I don't see how you can impose it on everyone because it's just not going to work.
00:28:57.000And we're going to hamper ability to deal.
00:28:59.000There's other ways of working around it and making sure that we do as much as we can so that people have the ability to choose to protect their health.
00:29:20.000This question is a little self-interested, maybe a lot.
00:29:24.000In addition to the CBC, the federal government now directly subsidizes virtually the entire media, all the legacy media and even a lot of the independent media.
00:29:31.000This means that independents like the Western Standard and some of the other independents here today, we're subsidizing massive, even multinational corporations that are media corporations with our corporate income taxes.
00:29:43.000And even more concerning, it means that the federal government now was in essentially the media licensing business.
00:29:48.000We went through it for fun just to see what would happen.
00:29:52.000We've also now we also got the Online News Act coming, which would forcibly it would force social media giants to give preferential ranking and feeds to government approved media.
00:30:24.000And so and so that's what I believe in.
00:30:27.000And I as a conservative and someone who believes in the freedom of the press, I find it very difficult to accept federal government is funding.
00:30:35.000And can you actually look at a society in which the federal government's funding the press and the press is independent?
00:30:43.000They can say they're independent as much as they can and keep a distance.
00:31:03.000In 2020, the federal liberals use the cabinet, an order in council to ban about 1500 different firearms that they claim were military or assault style rifles.
00:31:16.000This include some anti tank missiles that I didn't know weren't banned until now.
00:31:20.000I really wish I would have known I got my hands on some Russian anti aircraft missiles.
00:31:26.000You don't know what we get up to in Alberta.
00:31:28.000But many of these were just otherwise normal hunting and sports shooting rifles, but largely just that had an appearance that looks scary to the uninitiated.
00:31:41.000But you said several months ago you would not change any firearms legislation since then.
00:31:46.000But since your announcement, the liberals have also said they're going to bring in a bill to ban the sale of handguns.
00:31:52.000Does this mean you would not reverse the band on what the so-called military assault style?
00:31:58.000If you could maybe clear that up, where do you stand on the changes between the liberals on on the 1500 guns and then the handgun changes they say they're going to make your prime minister?
00:32:09.000What are you going to do on those two fronts?
00:32:11.000Well, let me let me touch the essential points. The issue on guns in Canada is illegal handguns in cities.
00:32:17.000That's the issue today in this country. I'm you know, we have a home in Montreal.
00:32:22.000There's not a day, not literally not a day where there isn't a shooting in plain daylight.
00:32:28.000I mean, people are shocked by that. That's what the federal government needs to deal with and make sure that we stop the illegal commerce of these illegal handguns coming in.
00:32:38.000Number two, this OIC should be revised by experts who are independent from the government and politics and really define what it is that they call an assault and weapons.
00:32:50.000And you know what? We're going to end up with a much smaller list than what we have in terms of the federal government's baiting.
00:32:57.000So the anti-aircraft missiles stay banned?
00:33:00.000Well, we'll have to see. The experts will pronounce on that.
00:33:11.000He was running for a liberal prime minister that we have to stop children having nuclear weapons in the basements of their families' homes.
00:33:19.000And then the third thing I would add about all of this is something for conservatives.
00:33:27.000Every time we get an election campaign, the liberals bait us on handguns every time.
00:33:35.000And you know what? Every time we take the bait.
00:33:38.000I'm going to run as a leader of a party and as a in the next campaign on my agenda for the economy.
00:33:45.000And I'm very determined that there's one thing we're not going to do is run on the issues that the liberals are going to throw at us.
00:33:52.000But which and we're going to stop. It's gotten to the point where I'm convinced now that conservatives are the most generous political party in the world.
00:34:01.000They go into election campaigns. They actually give it away to the liberals.
00:34:07.000The liberals don't win campaigns. We lose them and we give it to them.
00:34:11.000But can we agree on one thing on the whole issue? They will trot it out again.
00:34:17.000I guarantee you this will be and if they will want to make this an issue because that is exactly the way that they operate in a campaign.
00:34:26.000So all of us agree on what the main problem is in terms of guns.
00:34:31.000Please, let's focus on the things that we believe in as opposed to responding to our adversaries' taunts.
00:34:52.000I'm going to introduce our next candidate here.
00:34:56.000Scott Atchison was born in Huntsville, Ontario.
00:34:59.000At the age of just 21, he was elected to the council of his hometown and served in different municipal offices until being elected the mayor of Huntsville in 2014.
00:35:09.000During this time, he worked in real estate and in consulting.
00:35:12.000Since being elected to the House of Commons in 2021 as a conservative, he was appointed the Shadow Minister of Labour for the Official Opposition.
00:35:21.000So please join me in welcoming to the stage, Mr. Scott Atchison.
00:46:18.000As I was talking about with Mr. Charest, you know, from 2020 to 2022, we've had a long series of lockdowns from the provinces, mandates federally and provincially.
00:46:28.000It is hugely divided Canadians, but it is especially divided Conservatives.
00:46:32.000It has been, you know, left-leaning parties have generally not had the kind of party discipline issues and unity issues.
00:46:39.000The parties on the center right and the right have, you know, because it's been framed by many, and I have to admit, me too, as very much a lot of authoritarianism coming in.
00:46:51.000And so it divides Conservatives, sometimes along traditional, conservative, and libertarian lines.
00:46:56.000You know, you've portrayed yourself as someone able to unite Conservatives and find compromise that, you know, comes from experience in municipal politics.
00:47:06.000But this issue is probably a little less maybe prone to compromise.
00:47:10.000One side sees the other as, you know, maybe racist, sexist, anti-science, and selfish.
00:47:15.000And the other side sees the other as heartless, cold, authoritarian.
00:47:20.000There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for compromise on something that has become so incredibly polarizing.
00:47:25.000Do you believe you'd be able to find a satisfactory compromise on this kind of issue that would be able to keep Conservatives together where perhaps Aaron O'Toole and Jason Kenney could not?
00:47:39.000Yeah, and I think, and this is where it has to begin.
00:47:43.000And this is part of the problem with our politics overall for several generations now.
00:47:47.000But I think one of the reasons why this became such a difficult issue is because Justin Trudeau turned it into an issue that way.
00:47:55.000He chose to demonize Canadians who chose not to get vaccinated to try to win votes with those who are vaccinated.
00:48:06.000But that's how our politics works in this country.
00:48:08.000We seek to capitalize as politicians on the differences of opinion that exist, whether it's East versus West, urban versus rural, vaccinated versus unvaccinated, and demonize people.
00:48:20.000So, to me, that's something that should never have happened.
00:48:23.000It's something that I would never operate as a prime minister.
00:48:26.000I believe that it's time to start calling this country together, all the things that do unite us.
00:48:30.000The other issue here, too, though, is that when it came to this issue, I think Mr. Shray spoke about this very well also.
00:52:57.000Canada's not run a balanced budget since 2008.
00:53:00.000Under both Liberal and Conservatives governments, we've run a long stream of deficits.
00:53:05.000They're now just much larger, wildly out of control.
00:53:08.000The last election, however, the Conservative Party under Erin O'Toole did not run on a balanced budget.
00:53:14.000They paid some kind of lip service to it, but there was nothing even vaguely representing a credible plan to return to balanced budget in any kind of realistic timeframe.
00:53:23.000As Prime Minister, would you balance the budget within your first term?
00:53:27.000And if so, what are the key action items you would take to get there?
00:53:35.000I think it would be possible to balance it now.
00:53:38.000The economy is firing on all cylinders, and yet this Liberal government borrowed another $50 billion because they think they need to stimulate the economy.
00:53:46.000In fact, it could be balanced within that first mandate based on what's going on in this country.
00:53:51.000There's no question that this government, this current Liberal government, has borrowed way too much money.
00:54:01.000But it's also important to acknowledge that there's good debt and bad debt.
00:54:05.000If we're boring to invest to grow the economy, that's one thing.
00:54:09.000But this government just spends recklessly and continues to grow the Federal Public Service with reckless abandon.
00:54:16.000And honestly, we need some smart fiscal managers to rein in the spending and focus on the core responsibilities the Federal Government's created for.
00:54:26.000Now, the economy is firing pretty hot right now.
00:54:29.000But the deficits are so massive that it's unlikely that economic growth alone is going to get us there.
00:54:35.000I think it's fair to say there's going to need to be, perhaps even beyond spending restraint, some spending cuts.
00:54:42.000Because we're spending more now, we're boring more now than we have, even at the highest point of the Second World War or the First World War.
00:57:47.000One is, would you honor that if you're Prime Minister, would you appoint elected Alberta Conservatives to the Senate?
00:57:53.000And second, and I know this is a bit of a Pandora's box here, would you entertain the idea of more fundamental Senate reform?
00:58:02.000Right now, Alberta, with a population of greater than all four Atlantic provinces combined, has less seats than just New Brunswick or just Nova Scotia.
00:58:10.000It's quite the opposite of representation by population.
00:58:13.000It's like the inverse of how much money you pay is the seats you get.
00:58:16.000It doesn't really make much sense. It's almost medieval.
00:58:19.000But I understand that's a constitutional Pandora's box.
00:58:53.000I think that I would focus more on, you know, fixing the things that you can fix as opposed to tackling, you know, issues like that that, you know, take you down a rabbit hole and you don't ever get sold.
00:59:05.000So, major center reform would be more or less off the table, which is, I think, a fairly standard position because it is quagmire.
00:59:11.000But appointing elected senators to the Senate, that is something you would do?
00:59:15.000Yeah, I'd be inclined to support that.
01:00:05.000Roman Baber is a relative newcomer to politics, but he has come out of the gate like a stampede bucking horse.
01:00:12.000He was born far behind the Iron Curtain in the Soviet Union.
01:00:15.000When he was eight years old, he and his family emigrated to Israel and then to Canada when he was 15.
01:00:21.000He made his career as a lawyer before winning a seat in the Ontario legislature as a progressive conservative in 2018.
01:00:27.000But when COVID-19 hit our shores in 2020, governments across Canada began a series of lockdowns and other restrictions on liberties that shocked many, few more than Mr. Roman Baber.
01:00:38.000He became an outspoken critic of his own government's policies, something that earned him an expulsion from the Ontario Progressive Conservative Caucus by that province's premier, Doug Ford.
01:00:49.000Since then, Mr. Baber has taken his fight national and thrown his hat into the ring for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.
01:00:57.000Please join me in welcoming to the stage, Mr. Roman Baber.
01:01:01.000For the record, I told him to bring a hat.
01:01:11.000But as Calgary, Alberta politicians will know, it's important to put it on the right direction.
01:01:51.000But you were elected as a member of the provincial legislature, member of provincial parliament to the Ontario legislature, representing a Toronto constituency.
01:02:01.000Conservatives put a lot of effort into fighting for seats in the GTA, because that's where the votes are, and they swing back and forth.
01:02:10.000That's where the elections are decided.
01:02:12.000And the West largely gets taken for granted.
01:02:14.000That's Saskatchewan, Alberta, and the interior of BC, the part of BC we consider part of the West, except for the Westernmost part.
01:02:22.000Why should Albertans trust you as a Conservative leader to not take them for granted the way we have often felt in the past?
01:02:31.000I think I've been blessed to develop my reputation on the basis of trust.
01:02:35.000It's that Canadians can count on me to make a difficult decision, even when the balance of the political class will not.
01:02:42.000And it's well known that, you know, you might disagree with what I have to say, and that's fine, that's democracy.
01:02:48.000But at the very least, you'll always know where I stand.
01:02:51.000I take pride in the fact that I won a key North Toronto riding.
01:02:56.000It's exemplary of the fact that Conservatives can win in the city.
01:02:59.000And Prime Minister Harper understood very well, and in fact, multiple times said that you can't win a national election without making a strong gain inside the GTA.
01:03:35.000I've had every blessing that Canada had to offer.
01:03:38.000And I think that immigrants come to Canada for democracy and opportunity, which are the themes of my campaign.
01:03:44.000Those are actually conservative principles, and we should not be ceding them to the Liberals.
01:03:50.000So I think I'm actually very excited about the prospect of leading an election and winning in the cities.
01:03:58.000But as it comes to the West, I love Canada coast to coast.
01:04:01.000I think people know that very, very well.
01:04:03.000And it's now my third time in Alberta during this race.
01:04:07.000And I'm very, very optimistic that I'll be able to deliver for Alberta and the rest of Western Canada, if you'll permit that to be the next question.
01:04:20.000I know you've got something to say on equalization.
01:04:29.000But so I want to talk about the feeling of being taken for granted here, especially conservative Westerners, Albertans, Interior, BC, Saskatchewan.
01:04:38.000The feeling that our votes are in the bag.
01:04:40.000You guys could do anything, and we're still going to vote conservative.
01:04:44.000So as a result, we are just, we're just not, you know, we're not a battleground state using the American parlance.
01:04:50.000The GTA is where it's at, and then some parts in around Vancouver and here and there, like those swing areas.
01:04:56.000We get the attention because that's strategically smart.
01:04:59.000That's where you want to spend your time and your money in campaigns.
01:07:59.000Brash is not a term that I typically get described as.
01:08:03.000Look, I love Canada's Constitution and I lecture on it occasionally.
01:08:07.000Section 36 of the Constitution prescribes that the federal government is committed to the principle of equalization
01:08:14.000to ensure that each province is able to deliver a comparable level of services.
01:08:19.000So I think that it be rightfully interpreted that the section is somewhat conditional.
01:08:24.000And the condition precedent that you must meet is that a province is unable to provide a comparable level of service.
01:08:30.000Well, what if we go out there and we determine that provinces are in fact able to provide comparable levels of service?
01:08:36.000And what is a comparable level of service?
01:08:38.000If one province has $7 or $8 a day day care, that's a very different type of service that another province might provide.
01:08:45.000And what if we were to go out and say, well, wait a minute.
01:08:48.000Even if we were to concede that someone is unable to provide a comparable level of service, well, why not?
01:08:55.000And should their unwillingness in develop their natural resources, for instance, come at the expense of other provinces needing to pay equalization?
01:09:05.000So I know my way around the courtroom. I don't think that we need litigation.
01:09:13.000But what I will do is on day one, I'll invite the provinces and I'll say, look, let's have a review as to whether you're actually able to provide a comparable level of services.
01:09:21.000If you cannot, then let's work to unleash, to unlock your natural resources before the end of my first term, because it's time to do away with it.
01:09:29.000I'm running against socialism in Canada. I think that getting rid of equalization is going to help heal regional divides.
01:09:37.000But most importantly, I think that we need to turn Canada into the national resources superpower that we ought to be.
01:09:44.000And ending equalization is an important way to get there.
01:09:48.000So let's go a bit beyond equalization is the one that gets a lot of attention, but it's not just that.
01:09:59.000A lot of the concern is around federal overreach in many things.
01:10:05.000Anger ranges from being able to keep more money, but putting out firewalls, demands, and to demands for outright independence among some.
01:10:14.000Depends which poll you're looking at, but last October, we commissioned Main Street to do a poll around support for independence.
01:10:22.000Support in Alberta for independence was at 40%.
01:10:25.000If combined with other Western provinces, it was up to 45%.
01:10:28.000Other provinces, other pollsters have put it lower.
01:10:32.000I think it depends if you call it independence or separatism.
01:10:34.000I think it's like calling someone newly single or divorced.
01:10:37.000It's the same thing, but it has a different connotation.
01:10:40.000So it depends how you ask the question.
01:10:43.000Either way, there is a significant minority of Albertans who are moving from the West wants in to the West wants out.
01:10:50.000Beyond your proposal to abolish equalization, what would you do to ensure the West is in and wants to stay in?
01:10:58.000Look, offering a meaningful national conversation.
01:11:03.000As I've said before, I think many folks, especially in Ottawa, do not appreciate that there is life outside of Quebec and Ontario.
01:11:11.000And I think it's time for us not to recognize that there is so much strength in our diversity, but also in the fact that we need our country together and united.
01:11:27.000As I said, we're facing unprecedented challenges around the world, and this would be devastating for Canada to suffer any type of exit.
01:11:39.000And so beyond equalization, I will certainly look at the representation formula.
01:11:45.000I think it needs to be simplified considerably.
01:11:48.000I read a lot of texts and I'm having difficulty consuming that text.
01:11:52.000The only exception I would make is maybe for provinces and territories.
01:11:56.000I will not have a situation where a territory does not have at least one MP.
01:12:01.000I think that that's probably sensible.
01:12:03.000But beyond that, I think that we need a fair representation formula.
01:12:06.000As I said, natural resources is a gateway.
01:12:10.000But also, I think in the last couple of years, and people know that I've been very passionate about what's been happening to our country vis-a-vis the division that the Prime Minister has been peddling.
01:12:21.000And at the very least, if we had government extricate itself out of our lives, to the extent that it's still much involved in public health, to the extent that it still stirs division among Canadians,
01:12:35.000I think we're all going to simmer down, we're going to take a deep breath, and we're going to start working again, loving each other again, being kind again, something that I think has been missing for the last couple of years.
01:12:47.000I have optimism for the future of our country, United.
01:12:51.000So I want you to take a deep breath for this question.
01:13:36.000The idea was not to compromise lives by suggesting or, you know, if you look at my two-page letter of January 15th to the Premier, 2021,
01:13:49.000there's maybe less than a line in there about the economy.
01:13:52.000The idea was that we have to factor in the toll, the collateral harm of lockdowns into our public health exercise because we're potentially costing lives.
01:14:02.000And regretfully, the evidence is bearing the case.
01:14:05.000So your fight when you got started was provincial, but your national...
01:14:19.000The lockdowns were pretty much provincial, but mandates, you know, masks and vaccines obviously are a big part federally.
01:14:29.000So leaving aside the provincial stuff, because you're in the national stage now, what would you do as Prime Minister to ensure those kinds of restrictions on freedoms never happen again?
01:14:55.000And I do support a reform that would provide for more private delivery systems with a single pair.
01:15:02.000But at the same time, I will also amend the Canada Health Act to provide that we can never have discrimination against the Canadian because of their medical status.
01:15:42.000You can't just tap your chest and yell freedom.
01:15:45.000And to those that try to make this argument as simplistic as freedom versus mandates or freedom versus health, that respectfully, I don't think is the right prism.
01:15:57.000I would propose that we're sensible people and intelligent and we can have a conversation if conversation is permitted.
01:16:08.000You know, liberty is prescribed in Section 7, but we still incarcerate people if we believe that democratically established principles warrant so.
01:16:19.000So I didn't say we have to fight for freedom.
01:16:26.000The government carries the burden if it's going to engage in this remarkable action of foreclosing on our freedoms.
01:16:33.000And I don't believe that the case actually warrants so.
01:16:36.000We knew very early on that 80% of the risk is in long-term care homes.
01:16:39.000We knew that the virus is considerably more transmissible, making some of the metrics that we're worried about, like hospitalization and death considerably lower.
01:16:50.000Instead, we continue to operate as if we're still stuck in March or April 2020.
01:16:58.000And so once we actually look at some of the metrics and appreciate what we've learned, thankfully, then there was no reason to engage in this remarkable public health exercise that was so devastating and will be devastating, I think, for generations, especially on our children who regress considerably.
01:17:16.000So that brings me back to your question on democracy, which is allow for discussion.
01:17:21.000And that means I will eliminate all the preconditions that precipitated what had transpired.
01:17:28.000And that is the limit on our ability to communicate, whether it's in Parliament.
01:17:33.000I suffered from a deficit of democracy in Parliament.
01:17:35.000Our ability to communicate on social media.
01:17:37.000I will enter into an arrangement with social media giants to ensure that we're not going to be abridging the right of Canadians to free speech online.
01:17:46.000I will protect regulated professionals, certainly federal ones, and through agreement with the provinces.
01:17:53.000And I will ensure that we have free and independent media, because you can't have free and independent media when the government signs the media's paycheck.
01:18:30.000And the government can pull your funding at any time.
01:18:32.000And, you know, I think a lot of journalists who are in that media, they're doing their best.
01:18:36.000But there's got to be, at least in more of the business side and the publishers, there's got to be that sort of Damocles hanging over them that if they cross some line, the government's going to pull their funding and they're in trouble.
01:18:47.000And I think that's got clear and obvious consequences.
01:18:50.000We've now got the Online News Act forcibly, you know, forced certain ranking of government approved news sources, the Online Harms Act censoring users, the Online Streaming Act to create taxes on independent content creators to redistribute it to big ones to create CanCon that no one will probably watch.
01:19:09.000It's a large suite of legislation, and I know it's a lot to take in, but if you're Prime Minister, what would be the fate of these bills and the media bailout?
01:19:21.000I will defund and I'll spin off CBC by lunchtime.
01:22:04.000So I can buy the anti-aircraft missiles.
01:22:06.000So I'm definitely going to repeal the regulation.
01:22:09.000And I'm going to roll back on the legislation that's proposed right now.
01:22:14.000Keep in mind, so York Center is regretfully home to one of the highest rates of gun violence in the country.
01:22:22.000And all of that violence is perpetuated with illegal guns.
01:22:26.000And so any Liberal suggestion that any of their attempts to, in some cases even, expropriate the property of Canadians would make a dent in crime or any meaningful difference in crime is false.
01:22:45.000This is an issue that we failed to communicate as Conservatives.
01:22:49.000Almost all gun crime is committed with illegal guns.
01:22:52.000Instead of penalizing law-abiding gun owners, I would propose that we actually tackle the issue.
01:22:58.000And that is the flow, the illegal smuggling of guns across the border.
01:23:04.000The Canada Border Agency is dysfunctional, much like most federal agencies these days.
01:23:10.000It's got bad culture, it's poorly managed, and it's underfunded.
01:23:15.000Instead, I'm going to restore a culture of responsibility and professionalism in government.
01:23:21.000And that would include the Canada Border Services Agency.
01:23:25.000We need to focus on preventing the flow of illegal guns instead of punishing law-abiding Canadians.
01:23:32.000Let's talk a little bit about the Senate, as I've talked to some of the other candidates.
01:23:42.000We have these things in Alberta we call Senate elections to elect Senators-in-waiting.
01:23:47.000I think it's the only election in Canada that doesn't actually get you anything.
01:24:39.000I'll absolutely respect Alberta's desire to put forth elected Senators.
01:24:44.000But at the same time, Derek, and I think most voters know that I say it like it is, or at least the way I perceive it.
01:24:51.000And I'm not sure that there's appetite in Canada for constitutional reform, especially given how divided we are as a nation these days, as you need very, very broad consensus.
01:25:03.000That doesn't mean that I'm not going to have a conversation.
01:25:06.000I was so pleasantly surprised towards the end of February, where on the Tuesday or Wednesday, the invocation of the Emergencies Act was on Monday, after the alleged emergency was behind us.
01:25:22.000And of course, I'm of a very strong view that it was an unlawful invocation of emergencies.
01:25:27.000But on the Wednesday, the Prime Minister pulled the legislation from the Senate because he didn't have the votes in the Senate.
01:25:34.000And all of a sudden, a lot of Canadians, including myself, and I'm very interested in these subject matters, realized that we have a house of sober second thought, as John A. Macdonald famously noted.
01:25:48.000And they were able to make a material difference in the development of our nation's history as it was about to invoke the successor of the War Measures Act for the first time.
01:26:00.000So I think that there may be a greater role for the Senate to play.
01:26:05.000This is, regretfully, probably more of an academic discussion, which I enjoy very much, but I'd like to have a look at it.
01:26:12.000I just think that in order for us to have meaningful Senate reform, we need to start healing regional divides.
01:26:19.000We need to restore the rule of law, something that I think is absent right now from Ottawa.
01:26:23.000I think we need to reframe the conversation. Like Scott said, if there was just one area of disagreement I'd have with John today is that I don't think that we need a special deal.
01:26:32.000We're all Canadian. I think it's time to start treated provinces equally. Equalization comes to mind or the lack thereof.
01:26:42.000I'd like to have a look at Senate reform, if possible, recognizing that it's very, very difficult.
01:26:47.000I don't know if it was Sir John McDonough who coined the frame House of Sober Second Thought.
01:26:52.000But if so, it's particularly, it's deliciously ironic that he would talk about it being sober.
01:26:58.000I'm going to have to get into that, but it's a good chance it wasn't.
01:27:02.000Many lawyers make that joke after they get called to the bar and go to the bar.
01:27:08.000Speaking of called to the bar, we're going to be wrapping up here in a second.
01:27:14.000Actually, no, I guess we're out of time now.
01:27:17.000Robyn, I'm delighted that you could join us here today.
01:27:20.000I appreciate you speaking to Western Centre readers, members and everyone joining us here.
01:27:25.000Thank you and good luck on the campaign trail.
01:27:38.000So I'm about to call you all to the bar too.
01:27:41.000Mr. Babber, Mr. Shere, Mr. Atchison, on behalf of the Western Standards readers and members and those joining us,
01:27:51.000thank you for coming and sharing your thoughts with us today.
01:27:54.000When I'm finally done whinging, I would like to invite the candidates back up to the stage for a group photo and to suffer the abuse of the local Calgary media.
01:28:09.000I've done my best to be fair and balanced here today.
01:28:13.000If any of you do not think I've been, I invite you to unsubscribe.
01:28:18.000Because the Western Standard refuses to accept government money, that might actually hurt.
01:28:24.000So before I let you go, though, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that we have this beautiful room here at the Calgary Petroleum Club today,
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01:31:31.000For sure, we all do at the Western Standard's.
01:31:33.000What are your thoughts on that debate?
01:31:35.000I think that Tom Clark, the moderator, certainly lost.
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