00:15:09.440When you look at the WTO data, you clearly see that supply management distorts markets way more than subsidies provided by the farm bill in the United States.
00:15:20.340The hormone issue as well, people often say, my goodness, the milk in America is disgusting.
00:15:29.700Again, if you go to the U.S., you'll clearly see that the human chain is highly protected from the use of growth hormones,
00:15:36.460even though they are allowed to be used and they're not allowed in canada the human chain
00:15:41.660is very much protected so a quality is actually quite good i've been to the west many times and
00:15:46.380i think that butter milk and other dairy products are of high quality as well so there's lots of
00:15:51.500myths that are being destroyed right now as a result of seeing more and more canadians
00:15:58.700questioning the model yeah well and what's really brought this to the fore as you said you've been
00:16:04.060You know, speaking about this for a long, long time, others like Martha Hall-Findley, I think, did some good work in the past on it as well.
00:16:11.580But, you know, they've always been isolated, I guess, you know, free market people speaking up, but not really grabbing the attention of people.
00:16:20.180But something that's really bringing it to the fore right now, aside from the high cost of living, is it's really causing some trade hindrances with us.
00:16:26.360I mean, we've got a trade war with the United States, and we've had issues with Europe.
00:16:30.020Supply management's coming up almost all the time now.
00:16:32.920Absolutely. So on August 19th, we know that there are new tariffs coming in at 50%. I would say in the agri-food space, two major sectors are being impacted. One is dairy and the other is liquor. And of course, President Trump is absolutely strategic in terms of aiming at specific sectors, dairy, because of, well, tariffs, tariffs on imports.
00:16:57.460And a lot of people often point to dairy retail prices saying that our dairy products are actually way more expensive than the U.S.
00:17:14.960But when you look at retail prices, yes, many products are more expensive than we can in the U.S., specifically cheese and yogurt and things like that.
00:17:24.180But I don't think that's actually the right reason to think about changing supply management.
00:17:29.920I think the big thing we have is the fact that we have no innovation and we're allowing foreign companies, foreign countries to come in and build and buy processors, which to me are the key chain, the key asset we need to focus on when it comes to growing the dairy sector.
00:17:51.860China built a dairy facility in Kingston.
00:17:55.600The Americans' Coca-Cola actually built a facility in Peterborough for lactose-free milk.
00:18:02.100Lactalis just bought the cheese division of Agropur.
00:18:05.380That's a multinational coming from Europe.
00:18:08.360So more and more, we're losing control of our own dairy sector despite supply management, and that's a big problem.
00:18:16.220yeah well one of the things this was supply management was supposedly sold on was it was
00:18:21.180going to protect the family farm and the statistics don't support that whatsoever i mean when they
00:18:26.380brought it in there was what a hundred and some thousand family farms or more i believe
00:18:30.700and now it's what 10 or 11 000 farms that are predominant in the the industry because it forces
00:18:36.460more of a centralized larger model rather than diversity in the uh market absolutely so again
00:18:44.060when when supply management was created it was it was to protect the family farm and also
00:18:51.020regionalized production that's the important part especially for you guys in alberta and for us
00:18:56.700in the atlantic and we're supposed to produce what we need by province because quotas are managed by
00:19:02.380provinces but the reality now is that quebec for example produces 37 36 37 of all the milk and
00:19:10.060butterfat we need in canada with only 20 of the population which is why this thing is so
00:19:17.740political because well politicians are after votes and so that's why when you go back to the
00:19:24.620architects of supply management they probably didn't see this coming at all and and now it
00:19:30.780the thing is so politicized as it's it's impossible to get anybody to think strategically
00:19:37.180about the family and how to actually make it better more competitive so a tenant in the white
00:19:43.820house stops harassing and threatened canada and focusing on that one weak point we have
00:19:50.060with the supply management because it is a weak point yeah we're offering i mean you know we took
00:19:55.020it away i suspect uh that uh the president would probably find something else to hang up upon i
00:20:00.380don't envy anybody trying to negotiate with that man on trade deals but you're offering him low
00:20:04.780hanging fruit with this supply management because it's sort of an indefensible policy
00:20:08.700and it makes it easier for them to claim bad acting on Canada's part. But something they've
00:20:15.760been very effective with, I mean, I've got to admire it, is the dairy cartels are fantastic
00:20:20.140lobbyists. I mean, there's no major political party will dare touch supply management. I even
00:20:25.520had Mr. Polyev in here on an interview and I asked him point blank, what would you do about
00:20:30.420that? And he said, well, nothing. He went along the line saying it'd be more expensive to get rid
00:20:34.280of it than to keep it uh you can't do anything you just can't be would be costly to phase out
00:20:41.420but it's been done before right australia new zealand uh you you can phase it out if you really
00:20:46.020but it would be costly to him politically yes to say anything to anyone i mean one time i was in
00:20:56.320ottawa and i'm not going to tell you who it was but i did i was asked by a conservative mp
00:21:01.140if there's one thing you could do to improve supply management and get rid of most of the
00:21:07.100problems that we face as a nation, what would you do? And it's pretty darn easy, Corey. All you need
00:21:13.360to do is to harmonize allocation of quotas nationally. That's all you need to do. So instead
00:21:18.700of allowing provinces to allocate quotas, you just nationalize the whole thing. But here's the
00:21:23.920problem and chapoyev knows that is that capital rewards efficiency and so quotas was basically for
00:21:32.880west where you are and quebec would lose most of the quotas including the atlantic as well because
00:21:39.680there's just no efficiency here in our province and so that would be an easy fix and frankly
00:21:48.320within 10 years 15 years you would have an outstanding dairy sector that would be actually
00:21:54.800able to compete against anybody europe the united states anybody because our quality i mean we can
00:22:00.720actually sell something really good and people the world is looking for more dairy proteins
00:22:06.480as a result of the glp1 phenomena i mean you go into a grocery store there's protein fortified
00:22:13.520everything everyone is looking at after protein car c shortages are everywhere i know there are
00:22:19.360some in alberta that's why but we're not we're not well positioned to take advantage of some
00:22:25.920of these opportunities unfortunately because of supply management it's unfortunate i mean i do
00:22:31.520hope as more attention gets shine upon the issue and milk dumping and you know through your efforts
00:22:36.000and other people maybe eventually the political will change but as it is going to be a while
00:22:40.400while before politicians are able to speak up on it we can just keep trying i want to pivot a bit
00:22:45.540though like i said with with the the australian beef and somebody else mentioned it we've seen
00:22:50.000in the news uh we're finding we can purchase australian beef it shows how global the market
00:22:55.260is i mean beef from that far away and it's at a better price than what we could purchase from
00:23:00.220domestic sources better price it's 60 less yeah and then it's much better it's quite fine
00:23:07.940but you made the case in a sense on how having that sourced into our market can actually improve
00:23:14.440our beef production as we recover because we really haven't been producing well that's part
00:23:18.320of why our domestic prices are so awful absolutely i i've been i've been puzzled by what's going on
00:23:24.900right now because on the one side you know i care very much about the cattle industry the beef
00:23:29.720industry is very strong and in canada and alberta and ranchers deserve to make good money and they
00:23:35.800making good money right now which is great there's a rally here going on but at the same time i feel
00:23:42.680uh some compassion towards families out there wanting beef but they can't afford it so they're
00:23:49.880walking away from the meat counter for a long time because they just can't afford they actually see
00:23:55.160beef as a luxurious product and it shouldn't be that way but we know that there's there's going
00:24:03.960to be a correction eventually we saw that in 2014 we do expect some more stable prices in 2027
00:24:13.000not before but 2027 probably mid-year but in the meantime what do you do like what do you do to
00:24:18.440help consumers and how do you actually keep consumers engaged with the meat counter as much
00:24:23.560as possible and i think that the australian beef situation is actually going to help
00:24:29.000canadian cattle ranchers because it will keep consumers engaged at the meat counter
00:24:35.560for as long as it takes while we're actually seeing the entire system recover uh being built
00:24:42.600up because the herd is very small but it's being built up right now but i suspect that by 2027
00:24:48.600we'll actually see canadian consumers going back to cane because i mean let's face it i've actually
00:24:53.880tried australian beef uh it's good but it's not the same experience as cayenne beef so my guess
00:25:01.880is at some point when prices stabilize uh canes will actually go back to cayenne beef but in the
00:25:08.360meantime i think it serves a good purpose and i do see some new zealand beef as well out there
00:25:14.200and they're serving the same purpose yeah well and that's it i mean if you put consumers off of
00:25:19.320a regular brand i mean it's a lot of work to bring people on to something your families get used to
00:25:23.400a regular diet of pork and poultry even if the beef prices recover it'd be more difficult to
00:25:29.580pull them in some people don't necessarily understand somebody was asking you know how
00:25:32.780you could project a couple of years ahead one of the commenters you know where things might go
00:25:37.060beef is a little different it's such a longer turnover for a producer to bring something you
00:25:42.840know to make your herd larger to bring your production up when the herds have been depleted
00:25:47.560it's a multi-year process to bring them up i mean poultry and and pork you can well actually in 2014
00:25:52.940it didn't take that long i mean it was the same thing it just producers decided to reinvest in
00:25:59.100their herds it's not happening this time around due to credit people are leaving they're exiting
00:26:04.060the industry it's been very different both in canada and the us it's been really bizarre
00:26:08.860and a lot of analysts have been surprised including myself and so but i do think that we're going to
00:26:14.860get back to some normalcy eventually in 2027 and and to be honest cory we have 40 years worth of
00:26:23.180data farmgate data and retail data so correlating both for us it's quite easy so we can predict in
00:26:30.620advance exactly what may happen with beef prices yeah well i mean i certainly hope they they do
00:26:36.380stabilize for the sake of the producers and and for us as consumers i mean i i work in independent
00:26:41.260media which means if i have beef i got to buy those cheap tough steaks and beat the heck out
00:26:45.120of them and rise them because i don't have the budget for a good alberta ribeye right now just
00:26:49.460don't buy mexican beef please don't do that to your family and friends because they're going to
00:26:54.800hate you they're going to hate you i appreciate that um is there is there good clear labeling on
00:27:02.180the source of these uh meat products when they come in actually not always uh so mexican beef
00:27:09.080is always mentioned as ungraded Mexican beef. I've seen that a lot. But like I said, it's tougher
00:27:16.660meat. It comes from older animals. If you're thinking stew, fine. Barbecue, no. When it comes
00:27:24.560to Australian beef, New Zealand beef, sometimes it's mentioned. Actually, I see promotions right
00:27:31.220now for Australian beef on flyers in Canada.
00:27:36.320So it is advertised as Australian beef.
00:27:39.220But once you go into the grocery store, if you see good prices, chances are it's from Australia, from New Zealand.
00:27:46.580But you're often forced to ask the butcher or the person right there.
00:35:40.840When I want to get a good steak, you know, the rare time we're entertaining or have company or something and I'm doing a barbecue or something,
00:35:46.560I'll usually go to a butcher shop rather than a grocer's.
00:35:53.580Typically, you're going to get a better cut.
00:35:55.220You're going to have a better conversation with the person working the meat.
00:35:58.060But I'm not going to get it cheaper, typically.
00:36:35.220I'm not talking about the big warning things about this and that or so on so much,
00:36:39.160But just so people know, hey, this piece of meat here is from Mexico, or this piece over here is from Brazil or Australia or where it might be.
00:37:08.500But if you're concerned about it, if we were actually starting to open our market, which I think Canada is well capable of competing with American dairies without having all that protectionism, just as long as people know where it's coming from, and they can make that decision.
00:37:24.400CB Fix is all says, Co-op still has a butcher in store as well.