Western Standard - WS Fireside chat with Roman Baber, hosted by Derek Fildebrandt.

00:00:00.000 Thanks for joining us.

00:00:09.880 Western tensions, we have a lot of tension with Quebec, it gets a lot of attention, as I discussed with Mr. Charest.

00:00:17.560 But a secret you're going to find here at the Stampede is the ones we really got a beef with is Toronto.

00:00:24.300 And it's not just the Leafs.

00:00:26.260 But you were elected as a Member of the Provincial Legislature, Member of Provincial Parliament to the Ontario Legislature, representing a Toronto constituency.

00:00:37.600 Conservatives put a lot of effort into fighting for seats in the GTA, because that's where the votes are and they swing back and forth.

00:00:47.100 That's where the elections are decided and the West largely gets taken for granted.

00:00:51.060 That's Saskatchewan, Alberta and the interior of BC, the part of BC we consider part of the West.

00:00:56.260 Except for the Western most part.

00:00:59.320 Why should Albertans trust you as a Conservative leader to not take them for granted the way we have often felt in the past?

00:01:05.600 I think I've been blessed to develop my reputation on the basis of trust, is that Canadians can count on me to make a difficult decision,

00:01:14.940 even when the balance of the political class will not.

00:01:17.940 And it's well known that, you know, you might disagree with what I have to say and that's fine, that's democracy, but at the very least, you'll always know where I stand.

00:01:26.940 I take pride in the fact that I won a key North Toronto riding, it's exemplary of the fact that Conservatives can win in the city and Prime Minister Harper understood very well and in fact multiple times said that you can't win a national election without making a strong gain inside the GTA and I believe that I'm able to do so.

00:01:49.940 We have to speak to many communities that call urban centers home and we have to speak about their issues without fear, whether it's housing, whether it's transit, I think we also have to speak to young people on issues that affect them most.

00:02:04.940 And we have to be willing to speak to new communities. I'm an immigrant to Canada. I've had every blessing that Canada had to offer. And I think that immigrants come to Canada for democracy and opportunity, which are the themes of my campaign.

00:02:20.940 Those are actually conservative principles and we should not be ceding them to the Liberals. So I think I'm actually very excited about the prospect of leading an election and winning in the cities.

00:02:33.940 But as it comes to the West, I love Canada coast to coast. I think people know that very, very well. And it's now my third time in Alberta during this race. And I'm very, very optimistic that I'll be able to deliver for Alberta and the rest of Western Canada, if you'll permit that to be the next question.

00:02:52.940 I know you got something to say on equalization and I'll ask you to hold that. Keep that one in the chamber for now.

00:03:01.940 But so I want to talk about the feeling of being taken for granted here, especially conservative Westerners, Albertans, Interior, BC, Saskatchewan, feeling that our votes are in the bag.

00:03:15.940 You guys could do anything and we're still going to vote conservative. And so as a result, we are just, we're just not, you know, we're not a battleground state.

00:03:24.940 These American parlance, the GTA is where it's at. And then some parts in around Vancouver and here and there, like those swing areas, they get the attention because that's strategically smart.

00:03:34.940 That's where you want to spend your time and your money in campaigns, but that's really where the focus is. And as a result, there's a big feeling in the West that we're taken for granted.

00:03:43.940 Hold on equalization for a second, but what would you do as a conservative leader to make Westerners feel that that vote isn't just in the bag and taken for granted?

00:03:54.940 First of all, I think that the best thing we can do to unite our country and heal regional divides is to unleash our economic opportunity.

00:04:02.940 And that means availing ourselves of Canada's natural resources. I think that Canada's natural resources are a blessing.

00:04:09.940 I'm not going to let oil and gas be canceled. And I'll encourage pedal to the metal on natural resources.

00:04:15.940 You will never have to worry about production or being able to transport your oil.

00:04:20.940 I think all of Canada benefits from Alberta's energy. And so that's something I'll encourage.

00:04:26.940 Second of all, I will speak to equalization separately, but it's well known that I have committed to abolish equalization before the end of my first term and provide a tax cut, a corresponding tax cut across the board.

00:04:37.940 Third, I believe in the principle that all Canadian votes should be weighed equally.

00:04:43.940 The fact that we have postal writings in Calgary, one in Edmonton, close to 150,000 by population.

00:04:51.940 We have electoral districts in other provinces between 50 and 70, some even with 35, 40,000 voters.

00:05:00.940 And so I think that it's rightful for every Canadian to expect that their voice and vote is weighed equally.

00:05:07.940 And finally, it's the recognition. I had dinner yesterday with a group of folks here in Calgary.

00:05:11.940 And a woman said to me, it's like, it's as if, you know, they come and we're used and then they come back and then they punch us in the guts.

00:05:21.940 And I think that we need to speak about the fact clearly that there are not just regional divides, but there are sentiments of separation that need to concern every Canadian.

00:05:32.940 And it's not just taking your vote for granted, but making sure that you remain part and parcel and important part of the Confederation.

00:05:40.940 I'm committed to that.

00:05:47.940 And actually, I'm going to come back to those feelings around secession in a bit, but I'm going to let you out of the gate now.

00:05:53.940 I know what you want to talk about.

00:05:56.940 Mandates and lockdowns?

00:05:59.940 Hold your horses.

00:06:02.940 Equalization is a big issue here.

00:06:04.940 As I mentioned with Scott, Albertans held a referendum in the fall to abolish it.

00:06:08.940 But it was like a tree falling in the forest.

00:06:10.940 No one heard it.

00:06:11.940 I think a lot of that was perhaps the provincial government was kind of consumed by internal political chaos and didn't really try to do much about it.

00:06:17.940 It just didn't really have much political capital.

00:06:19.940 But either way, Albertans expressed themselves in a referendum, remove equalization from the Constitution.

00:06:26.940 I know you've got a pretty, I'll say bold, some would say brash, policy for equalization.

00:06:33.940 What are you going to do?

00:06:35.940 Brash is not a term that I typically get described as.

00:06:39.940 Look, I love Canada's Constitution and I lecture on it occasionally.

00:06:43.940 Section 36 of the Constitution prescribes that the federal government is committed to the principle of equalization to ensure that each province is able to deliver a comparable level of services.

00:06:54.940 So I think that it would be rightfully interpreted that the section is somewhat conditional.

00:06:59.940 And the condition precedent that you must meet is that a province is unable to provide a comparable level of service.

00:07:05.940 Well, what if we go out there and we determine that provinces are in fact able to provide comparable levels of service?

00:07:11.940 And what is a comparable level of service?

00:07:14.940 If one province has seven or eight dollar a day day care, that's a very different type of service that another province might provide.

00:07:20.940 And what if we were to go out and say, well, wait a minute, even if we were to concede that someone is unable to provide a comparable level of service?

00:07:29.940 Well, why not? And should their unwillingness in develop their natural resources, for instance, come at the expense of other provinces needing to pay equalization?

00:07:41.940 So I know my way around the courtroom.

00:07:44.940 I'm not I don't think that we need will need litigation.

00:07:48.940 But what I will do is on day one, I'll invite the provinces and I'll say, look, let's have a review as to your whether you're actually able to provide a comparable level of services.

00:07:57.940 If you cannot, then let's work to unleash to unlock your natural resources before the end of my first term, because it's time to do away with it.

00:08:05.940 I'm running against socialism in Canada.

00:08:08.940 I think that getting rid of equalization is going to help heal regional divides.

00:08:12.940 But most importantly, I think that we need to turn Canada into the national resources superpower that we ought to be.

00:08:20.940 And ending equalization is an important way to get there. 0.99

00:08:29.940 So let's go a bit beyond equalization is the one that gets a lot of attention, but it's not just that.

00:08:35.940 A lot of the concern is around federal overreach in many things.

00:08:41.940 Anger ranges from being able to keep our more money, but putting out firewalls demands and to demands for outright independence among some.

00:08:50.940 Depends which poll you're looking at.

00:08:51.940 But last last October, we commissioned Main Street to do a poll around support for independence.

00:08:58.940 Support in Alberta for independence was at 40 percent if combined with other Western provinces was up to 45.

00:09:04.940 Other provinces or other pollsters have put it lower.

00:09:08.940 I think it depends if you call it independence or separatism.

00:09:10.940 I think it's like calling someone newly single or divorced.

00:09:13.940 It's the same thing, but has a different connotation.

00:09:15.940 So it depends how you ask the question.

00:09:18.940 Either way, there is a significant minority of Albertans who are moving from the West wants in to the West wants out.

00:09:25.940 Beyond your proposal to abolish equalization, what would you do to ensure the West is in and wants to stay in? 0.71

00:09:34.940 Look, offering a meaningful national conversation.

00:09:39.940 As I've said before, I think many folks, especially in Ottawa, do not appreciate that there is life outside of Quebec and Ontario.

00:09:47.940 And I think it's time for us not to just recognize that there's so much strength in our diversity, but also in the fact that we need our country together and united.

00:10:02.940 We're facing unprecedented challenges around the world.

00:10:07.940 And this would be devastating for Canada to to suffer any type of exit.

00:10:14.940 And so beyond equalization, I will certainly look at the representation formula.

00:10:20.940 I think it needs to be simplified considerably.

00:10:23.940 I read a lot of text and I'm having difficulty consuming that text.

00:10:27.940 The only exception I would make is maybe for provinces and territories.

00:10:32.940 I will not have a situation where a territory does not have at least one MP.

00:10:36.940 I think that that's probably sensible.

00:10:38.940 But beyond that, I think that we need a fair representation formula.

00:10:42.940 As I said, natural resources is a gateway.

00:10:46.940 But also, I think in the last couple of years, and people know that I've been very passionate about what's been happening to our country,

00:10:54.940 vis-a-vis the division that the Prime Minister has been peddling.

00:10:57.940 And at the very least, if we had government extricate itself out of our lives to the extent that it's very still much involved in public health,

00:11:08.940 to the extent that it still stirs division among Canadians.

00:11:11.940 I think we're all going to simmer down.

00:11:13.940 We're going to take a deep breath.

00:11:15.940 And we're going to start working again, loving each other again, being kind again.

00:11:20.940 Something that I think that's been missing for the last couple of years.

00:11:23.940 I have optimism for the future of our country united.

00:11:26.940 So I want you to take a deep breath for this question.

00:11:31.940 Lockdowns, forced masking, mandatory vaccines.

00:11:37.940 I think your fight against this kind of government overreach has defined your candidacy more than any other suite of issues.

00:11:45.940 You spoke against these issues when you were a member of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Government,

00:11:52.940 and it earned you an expulsion for it.

00:11:54.940 And I think, you know, I'd not be the only one in the room who recognizes that that was quite a sacrifice to pay for a point of principle.

00:12:04.940 But now you're taking your fight national.

00:12:08.940 Derek, it wasn't for principle.

00:12:10.940 It was for human lives.

00:12:12.940 The idea was not to compromise lives by suggesting or, you know, if you look at my two page letter of January 15th to the Premier, 2021,

00:12:25.940 there's maybe less than a line in there about the economy.

00:12:28.940 The idea was that we have to factor in the toll, the collateral harm of lockdowns into our public health exercise because we're potentially costing lives.

00:12:37.940 And regretfully, the evidence is bearing the case.

00:12:40.940 So your fight when you got started was provincial, but your national...

00:12:45.940 Okay, I'll let you guys go.

00:12:47.940 I could just see them itching over there.

00:12:51.940 Okay.

00:12:52.940 You're now federal.

00:12:54.940 The lockdowns were pretty much provincial, but mandates, you know, masks and vaccines obviously are a big part federally.

00:13:03.940 So leaving aside the provincial stuff, because you're in the national stage now, what would you do as Prime Minister to ensure those kinds of restrictions on freedoms never happen again?

00:13:15.940 Right.

00:13:16.940 So a couple of things.

00:13:17.940 I've enjoyed listening to my friends today about their proposals for the Canada Health Act.

00:13:22.940 And it's good that we have a vibrant race of ideas and we have courage to go places we haven't done before.

00:13:29.940 That's great.

00:13:30.940 And I do support a reform that would provide for more private delivery systems with a single pair.

00:13:37.940 But at the same time, I will also amend the Canada Health Act to provide that we can never have discrimination against the Canadian because of their medical status ever.

00:13:48.940 I would think...

00:13:53.940 But beyond that, the fight has not just been about mandates and choice and lockdowns.

00:13:59.940 It's been about the culture, in fact, the political correctness, the radical cancel culture that precipitated this public health exercise.

00:14:12.940 And part of it was foreclosing on discussion, right?

00:14:17.940 I've never...

00:14:18.940 You can't just tap your chest and yell freedom.

00:14:21.940 And to those that try to make this argument as simplistic as freedom versus mandates or freedom versus health, that, respectfully, I don't think is the right prism.

00:14:33.940 I would propose that we're sensible people and intelligent and we can have a conversation if conversation is permitted.

00:14:41.940 Freedom is not absolute.

00:14:44.940 You know, liberty is prescribed in Section 7, but we still incarcerate people if we believe that democratically established principles warrant so.

00:14:54.940 So I didn't say we have to fight for freedom.

00:14:58.940 I said it's up to government to...

00:15:01.940 The government carries the burden if it's going to engage in this remarkable action of foreclosing on our freedoms.

00:15:08.940 And I don't believe that the case actually warrants so.

00:15:11.940 We knew very early on that 80% of the risk is in long-term care homes.

00:15:15.940 We knew that the virus is considerably more transmissible, making some of the metrics that we're worried about, like hospitalization and death considerably lower.

00:15:24.940 So let's reassess the risk.

00:15:26.940 Instead, we continue to operate as if we're still stuck in March or April 2020.

00:15:34.940 And so once we actually look at some of the metrics and appreciate what we've learned, thankfully,

00:15:41.940 then there was no reason to engage in this remarkable public health exercise that was so devastating and will be devastating, I think, for generations, especially on our children who regress considerably.

00:15:51.940 So that brings me back to your question on democracy, which is allow for discussion.

00:15:57.940 And that means I will eliminate all the preconditions that precipitated what had transpired.

00:16:04.940 And that is the limit on our ability to communicate, whether it's in Parliament.

00:16:09.940 I suffered from a deficit of democracy in Parliament.

00:16:11.940 Our ability to communicate on social media.

00:16:13.940 I will enter into an arrangement with social media giants to ensure that we're not going to be abridging the right of Canadians

00:16:20.940 to free speech online.

00:16:22.940 I will protect regulated professionals, certainly federal ones, and through agreement with the provinces.

00:16:28.940 And I will ensure that we have free and independent media.

00:16:31.940 Because you can't have free and independent media when the government signs the media's paycheck.

00:16:35.940 So let me ask this next question.

00:16:36.940 Sure.

00:16:37.940 I apologize.

00:16:38.940 I'm happy with my segues here.

00:16:39.940 Freedom has been a major theme of your campaign.

00:16:45.940 So I want to talk about freedom of the press and freedom of expression.

00:16:48.940 Yeah.

00:16:49.940 The federal government now subsidizes nearly the entire Canadian media.

00:16:55.940 They can pull.

00:16:57.940 It means now that they're essentially licensing media, going through their content, you know, saying,

00:17:03.940 are you good media?

00:17:04.940 Are you bad media?

00:17:05.940 And the government can pull your funding at any time.

00:17:07.940 And, you know, I think a lot of journalists who are in that media, they're doing their best.

00:17:11.940 But there's got to be, at least in more of the business side and the publishers, there's got to be that sort of Damocles hanging over them,

00:17:19.940 that if they cross some line, the government's going to pull their funding and they're in trouble.

00:17:23.940 And I think that's a clear and obvious consequences.

00:17:26.940 We've now got the Online News Act forcibly, you know, forced certain ranking of government approved news sources.

00:17:33.940 The Online Harms Act censoring users.

00:17:36.940 The Online Streaming Act to create taxes on independent content creators to redistribute it to big ones to create CanCon that no one will probably watch.

00:17:44.940 It's a large suite of legislation, and I know it's a lot to take in.

00:17:49.940 But if you're Prime Minister, what would be the fate of these bills and the media bailout?

00:17:55.940 I will defund and I'll spin off CBC by lunchtime.

00:18:01.940 That's easy.

00:18:07.940 I don't think they like that.

00:18:09.940 But beyond that, I'll go a step further.

00:18:12.940 Of course, I'll end all media bailouts and all media subsidies.

00:18:16.940 You have to go a step further.

00:18:18.940 One of the new phenomenas we've witnessed in the last couple of years is the record buys of government, of ad buys, advertising buys by government in the media.

00:18:28.940 I don't know where that was.

00:18:30.940 We didn't get it.

00:18:32.940 And that's been prevalent throughout.

00:18:35.940 And many of that advertising was also self-serving.

00:18:38.940 And that is not just anti-democratic.

00:18:42.940 I think it's just shameful that we would spend taxpayer money to promote our own government agenda.

00:18:50.940 So I'm going to limit and end.

00:18:54.940 If I may.

00:18:56.940 So as you said, I was born in the former Soviet Union.

00:18:59.940 I still remember there's a newspaper called Pravda, and Pravda means truth, which is ironic in and of itself.

00:19:06.940 So they would plaster Pravda all over.

00:19:10.940 And essentially, it was a machine for government talking points.

00:19:15.940 And that's what we've been witnessing the last couple of years.

00:19:17.940 That's why we're in this mess right now.

00:19:19.940 There is no democracy without free and independent media.

00:19:22.940 I'm committed to restoring democracy in our country.

00:19:32.940 I'm going to kind of come at you with a similar question that I asked Mr. Shere around firearms.

00:19:37.940 In 2020, liberals banned about 1,500 different weapons.

00:19:44.940 Most of them just look scary.

00:19:46.940 A bunch of them, as I was saying earlier, I was very surprised to learn we're not somehow illegal.

00:19:51.940 There were anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles on there.

00:19:54.940 But a bunch of them were just regular hunting and sports shooting rifles that were painted black and maybe just look scary.

00:19:59.940 But we're not functionally different than that old Woodstock shotgun that your grandpa left above the campador.

00:20:05.940 But they just, if it looks scary, it was banned.

00:20:08.940 And now we've got pending federal legislation that the liberals have promised it's going to come in the fall.

00:20:16.940 It's obviously going to pass with support of the NDP that will ban the sale and transfer of handguns.

00:20:23.940 I think it's pretty clearly a clear step in the direction of just banning handguns.

00:20:29.940 And maybe that'll go further than even just handguns.

00:20:31.940 If you're prime minister, is there any part of that you would not roll back?

00:20:37.940 I'll roll back all of it.

00:20:40.940 So I can buy the anti-aircraft missiles.

00:20:42.940 So I'm definitely going to repeal the regulation.

00:20:45.940 And I'm going to roll back on the legislation that's proposed right now.

00:20:50.940 Keep in mind, so York Center is regretfully home to one of the highest rates of gun violence in the country.

00:20:58.940 And all of that violence is perpetuated with illegal guns.

00:21:02.940 And so any liberal suggestion that any of their attempts to, in some cases even, expropriate the property of Canadians would make a dent in crime or any meaningful difference in crime is false.

00:21:21.940 This is an issue that we failed to communicate as conservatives.

00:21:25.940 Almost all gun crime is committed with illegal guns.

00:21:28.940 Instead of penalizing law-abiding gun owners, I would propose that we actually tackle the issue.

00:21:34.940 And that is the flow, the illegal smuggling of guns across the border.

00:21:40.940 The Canada Border Agency is dysfunctional, much like most federal agencies these days.

00:21:45.940 It's got bad culture, it's poorly managed, and it's underfunded.

00:21:51.940 I'm going to restore a culture of responsibility and professionalism in government.

00:21:56.940 And that would include the Canada Border Services Agency.

00:22:00.940 We need to focus on preventing the flow of illegal guns instead of punishing law-abiding Canadians.

00:22:07.940 Let's talk a little bit about the Senate, as I've talked to some of the other candidates.

00:22:17.940 We have these things in Alberta.

00:22:19.940 We call Senate elections to elect senators in waiting.

00:22:22.940 I think it's the only election in Canada that doesn't actually get you anything.

00:22:28.940 Well, it gets you brownie points.

00:22:31.940 And if there's a conservative prime minister, generally, there's a good chance they're going to appoint you.

00:22:37.940 So I'm going to ask you the same questions I asked Mr. Atchison.

00:22:40.940 If you're prime minister, would you commit to appointing elected senators in waiting?

00:22:44.940 And second, would you entertain any kind of broader constitutional reform that would see changes for the Senate?

00:22:50.940 You know, again, Alberta has a greater population than all four Atlantic provinces combined.

00:22:55.940 Quite a bit more.

00:22:57.940 But we have just over half the senators of New Brunswick by itself or Nova Scotia by itself.

00:23:02.940 It's not just not representation by population.

00:23:05.940 There is no logical rhyme or reason to it.

00:23:10.940 So that's a two-part question.

00:23:12.940 Yes, to the first part.

00:23:14.940 I'll absolutely respect Alberta's desire to put forth elected senators.

00:23:19.940 But at the same time, Derek, and I think most voters know that I say it like it is.

00:23:24.940 Or at least the way I perceive it.

00:23:27.940 And I'm not sure that there's appetite in Canada for constitutional reform,

00:23:32.940 especially given how divided we are as a nation these days is you need very, very broad consensus.

00:23:38.940 That doesn't mean that I'm not going to have a conversation.

00:23:41.940 I was so pleasantly surprised towards the end of February,

00:23:47.940 where on the Tuesday or Wednesday, the invocation of the Emergencies Act was on Monday.

00:23:53.940 After the alleged emergency was behind us.

00:23:58.940 And of course, I'm of a very strong view that it was an unlawful invocation of emergencies.

00:24:03.940 But on the Wednesday, the Prime Minister pulled the legislation from the Senate because he didn't have the votes in the Senate.

00:24:09.940 And all of a sudden, a lot of Canadians, including myself, and I'm very interested in these subject matters,

00:24:16.940 realized that we have a house of sober second thought, as John A. McDonald famously noted.

00:24:24.940 And they were able to make a material difference in the development of our nation's history as it was about to invoke the successor of the War Measures Act for the first time.

00:24:36.940 So I think that there may be a greater role for the Senate to play.

00:24:40.940 This is regretfully probably more of an academic discussion, which I enjoy very much.

00:24:45.940 But I'd like to have a look at it.

00:24:48.940 I just think that in order for us to have meaningful Senate reform, we need to start healing regional divides.

00:24:54.940 We need to restore the rule of law, something that I think is absent right now from Ottawa.

00:24:58.940 I think we need to reframe the conversation.

00:25:01.940 Like Scott said, if there was just one area of disagreement I'd have with John today is that I don't think that we need a special deal.

00:25:07.940 We're all Canadian.

00:25:08.940 I think it's time to start treated provinces equally.

00:25:13.940 Equalization comes to mind or the lack thereof.

00:25:17.940 I'd like to have a look at Senate reform, if possible, recognizing that it's very, very difficult.

00:25:23.940 I don't know if it was Sir John McDonough who coined the frame House of Sober Second Thought.

00:25:28.940 But if so, it's particularly, it's deliciously ironic that he would talk about it being sober.

00:25:35.940 I'm going to have to get into that.

00:25:37.940 But it's a good chance it wasn't here.

00:25:38.940 Many lawyers make that joke after they get called to the bar and go to the bar.

00:25:44.940 Speaking of called to the bar, we're going to be wrapping up here in a second.

00:25:50.940 Actually, no, I guess we're out of time now.

00:25:53.940 Robyn, I'm delighted that you could join us here today.

00:25:56.940 I appreciate you speaking to Western Senate readers, members, and everyone joining us here.

00:26:01.940 Thank you and good luck on the campaign trail.

00:26:03.940 Thank you so much, Derek.

Western Standard - July 16, 2022

WS Fireside chat with Roman Baber, hosted by Derek Fildebrandt.

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