Whatever Podcast

00:00:00.000 welcome to a special debate edition of the whatever podcast coming to you live from

00:00:12.260 santa barbara california i'm your host and moderator brian atlas a few quick announcements

00:00:16.820 before the show begins this podcast is a viewer supported heavy youtube demonetization so please

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00:00:44.140 speech message austin you actually can hide this it's not accurate hundred dollars and up triggers

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00:01:01.040 for all triggers in full details we're also live on twitch twitch.tv slash whatever drop us a follow

00:01:06.800 and a prime sub if you guys have one without further ado i'm joined today by andrew wilson host of the

00:01:15.940 crucible he's a political commentator blood sports debater his debate opponent is luke he graduated from

00:01:23.940 university of cal poly san luis obispo he got his ba in communication and he also has some

00:01:31.640 criticisms of uh the show so luke we're gonna just have you start let us know if you need us to pull

00:01:39.520 up and i think we will actually pull up because you sent us a dm with some criticism so we'll start

00:01:44.900 there so and then also for the crucible crew who's watching i know that uh i've streamed last couple

00:01:51.600 days been really busy uh traveling around uh make sure you send in those tts's remember the show is

00:01:57.460 viewer supported and brian graciously has allowed us to come back on uh into a studio so i just wanted

00:02:03.540 to throw that out there thank you andrew appreciate it so uh go ahead what what you got yeah so i think

00:02:09.780 it was about like what two weeks ago um uh my girlfriend at the time was coming on to the show

00:02:15.340 and she was at the time at the time yeah no is that so she's still your girlfriend yeah she's

00:02:21.420 still my girlfriend okay yeah okay no no i was just saying that at the time she was here and i she had

00:02:25.900 been communicated she was invited on she accepted it was about 10 p.m i think she was told at the time

00:02:30.440 that she was going to be here till and uh i was waiting obviously and there was you know earlier

00:02:34.800 arrangements in the morning and i remember thinking like you know this is going pretty long i was

00:02:38.540 watching the stream and the longer and longer i watched it the more and more i started to see that a lot

00:02:43.000 of the content seemed like it was taking advantage of people that just you know didn't have all of

00:02:47.240 their um logic and their their worldviews fully baked and it seemed like they were just being

00:02:52.240 taking advantage of and then not really being presented with the truth upon their you know just

00:02:57.280 being humiliated on camera and then on top of that too uh one of the criticisms i had as well too is

00:03:01.620 that people were up very late uh including a mom i believe who had to step out and when people were

00:03:06.340 asking for the show to end they were instead offered substances and they kept going and there was even um

00:03:11.220 you know just a lot of twitch chats i feel like that were uh not the most edifying and kind of

00:03:15.140 degrading that were being read out and i felt like i believe the term i used was social trafficking

00:03:19.740 um and then i felt like it was more exploitative than it was instructional or informative and so yeah

00:03:24.940 that was the first criticism i had and i'd be curious to hear what you guys think about that

00:03:28.440 sure so there's quite a bit there um let's start with social trafficking what is social trafficking

00:03:35.100 i would say social trafficking is exploiting people despite you know being slightly less

00:03:40.180 intellectual or less studied and then using that for money or for personal gain okay so it's

00:03:45.600 taking advantage of stupid people yeah i'd say so okay so social trafficking just means i take

00:03:50.820 advantage of dumb people for money okay got it and how would you quantify that like how would we know

00:03:57.920 who's the stupid person who's the smart person the person who's feeling humiliated in front of a public

00:04:02.700 audience okay that person yeah would it make any difference if that person sucked dick for money on

00:04:08.160 camera as to the level of humiliation that i thought that they would be willing to accept luke

00:04:12.280 uh i'm not sure how to answer that hypothetical question could you use a different scenario

00:04:16.660 no i really can't use a different scenario let us assume the woman who you feel like is being

00:04:21.500 humiliated sucks men's dicks on camera yeah do you think that i would think that her threshold for

00:04:27.960 what you might consider humiliation might be slightly different than what you're considering a

00:04:31.800 threshold for humiliation i think she already does feel humiliated in doing that yeah and even if she

00:04:36.420 says i absolutely on no circumstances feel humiliated by this i can't wait to get home

00:04:40.500 and do it tonight i'm gonna make thousands of dollars ha ha ha i think we both know that it's

00:04:44.240 not a fulfilling thing to do and i think you do internally feel convicted and humiliated by that

00:04:48.620 yeah do you do you are you aware of the idea of pre-last or a person who is given over to the

00:04:54.140 demonic or reprobate mind that they can be fooled into believing that they're doing something which is

00:04:58.820 fulfilling if you're referencing romans 1 then yes yeah not the term you mentioned so if you move

00:05:03.640 over into this idea that these people you do realize there are people who just really like

00:05:09.020 to be reprobates they actually just like it yeah they enjoy it yeah yeah is that in is that in

00:05:14.680 scripture well i'm uh do you disagree i honestly i don't think i can judge people's hearts uh i think

00:05:21.700 that's what the bible says says you know wait until the word comes do you think there's some people

00:05:25.220 luke who like being scumbags do you think that they enjoy it honestly i think my responsibility

00:05:30.900 is to preach repentance i feel like you're not answering the question luke let me ask you again

00:05:35.180 yeah do you feel like there's some people who like being scumbags they just enjoy it they're

00:05:39.500 deceived yeah i do okay so they like it so the thing is is like um when you say they're they look

00:05:45.480 stupid what if you look stupid because you say something really stupid and it's pointed out hey

00:05:51.060 you said something that's really fucking stupid and aren't you supposed to feel stupid isn't that the

00:05:56.140 idea i think the correct thing to do when someone does make themselves appear stupid and they're

00:06:01.180 really confident and they're asserting it is to actually show them the truth instead of just

00:06:04.340 berate them and show that you're superior to them when you have a worldview okay and it's false okay

00:06:09.920 how do you switch your worldview without that one being shown to be wrong oh it will be shown to be

00:06:14.520 wrong how how do you show it to be wrong how do you show a worldview to be wrong revealing the truth

00:06:18.920 okay but but first you have to break the worldview down that is false yeah in order to do that yeah

00:06:25.740 sometimes you're gonna have to risk offense and risk making them feel stupid absolutely and i think

00:06:29.640 you guys do a great job of that here i think modern dating is largely destroying gen z and a lot of

00:06:34.620 especially girls my age and i think that's really good how you guys ask really probing questions to

00:06:39.740 show the gaps in logic especially then i don't understand the criticism the criticism is andrew made feel

00:06:44.940 made woman feel dumb yes because i feel like afterwards you didn't present the truth and you

00:06:48.400 instead double down and slut shamed her after she had already said that she felt bullied as a

00:06:53.100 kid which which woman was this nicolette oh the troll yeah the what you mean the woman who came in

00:06:57.660 here purposely to troll yeah who was trying to derail the show on purpose in order to troll

00:07:02.160 yeah oh you thought i should have revealed the truth to the troll okay and and you think that

00:07:07.160 the troll the woman who was here to troll because she was trolling yes uh you think that that would

00:07:12.280 i would have revealed what what would have been luke's big reveal i want to hear it i think christ

00:07:16.820 i'm sorry the reveal to the woman who said that she believed in christ and was here to troll yes

00:07:25.920 your big reveal would have been the thing that she already conceded to i think you should have

00:07:30.340 revealed the true christ to her and what okay tell me what the what the true reveal of the true

00:07:35.460 christ would have looked like the true christ is one who follows after christ they are known by

00:07:39.880 their fruits and more importantly they uh they're said they're in christ it's just gibberish you

00:07:43.560 haven't shown me how you would reveal that i would preach her the word and the gospel oh you were

00:07:48.680 planning when she was trolling to pull out your bible and start preaching the gospel i think that's

00:07:52.400 a responsibility as any genuine christian and you think that she would have like looked over

00:07:55.680 and just kind of like mocked you because she would have i mean honestly if she does i don't care

00:08:00.120 i think i think the important part is being faithful so you hang on a dating i just want to make

00:08:04.780 sure i got this clear so on the dating podcast your big plan was going to be that when a troll

00:08:09.900 began to troll on the dating podcast instead of you stopping the derailment through quickly

00:08:15.520 humiliating the troll yeah you would have pulled out your bible and started preaching yeah and you

00:08:20.180 think that that would have worked i think so okay all right well that criticism is addressed that's

00:08:25.580 insane it would never work in a million years and by the way luke yeah demonstrate it demonstrate

00:08:29.820 yeah find me a troll and go pull your bible out because they're troll i just want to make sure that

00:08:34.740 you do understand they're trolling you know what do you know what a troll is i know what is a troll

00:08:38.520 i think a troll is someone who intentionally comes on like you were saying to derail things

00:08:41.880 they know what they're doing they're ironic they're being so if you pull out your bible

00:08:44.940 aren't you feeding the troll yeah but i think i think you can say things and seeds will be sown

00:08:48.480 that they can go back and they feel like they won the conversation but in reality the truth is still

00:08:52.340 sown okay so you would have fed the troll sure okay brilliant plan luke okay we'll go to the next

00:08:59.840 criticism sure so while we touched on the there were a couple things that you brought up

00:09:05.440 immediately uh you said that we were perhaps this is directed more so towards me uh taking advantage

00:09:12.480 uh what what does that mean precisely um so this is something i'm more passionate about but i think

00:09:17.860 a lot of people in gen z have kind of inherited a lot of just a bill of false goods as far as what

00:09:22.080 love and what dating are and so on this podcast i think you guys do as i said before an excellent

00:09:26.520 job of revealing just how broken i think the worldview is that's being presented of you know having to

00:09:30.740 date around having to have experience um people thinking that you know the double standards

00:09:34.500 talking about oh you have to sleep around to understand if you can marry the person i think

00:09:38.140 all of those things are bankrupt and i think there is a superior worldview and um yeah i think i think

00:09:43.680 most importantly the uh sorry can you repeat the question the taking advantage part yeah taking

00:09:48.040 advantage part i think all of those people are bought into that lie and i think taking advantage

00:09:53.280 of them for content and then clipping it to show how dumb they are without presenting the truth and

00:09:57.300 teaching them i think it's you know it's doing half the job and not completing it i don't feel like

00:10:01.100 an argument out of you um so when you say taking advantage in this context uh what exactly are you

00:10:10.060 saying we're taking advantage of their lack of intellect going along with what the world so you

00:10:14.200 think they're stupid no i just think they're less educated than who i have no degree you guys a little

00:10:19.680 bit older you guys have been around i know most of these women are my age really yeah a lot of the

00:10:24.700 women who come on the show are my age yeah or only a couple years younger do you think that like

00:10:28.580 the 34 year old who i get in an argument with is we kind of going to just suddenly become brilliant

00:10:33.040 in six years no but i think you could show them the truth and maybe they would learn to listen to

00:10:36.640 you i'm going to learn to listen okay uh have you seen that so when you say when you say taking

00:10:41.740 advantage yeah i have i've i've seen people willing to listen after you completely destroy their

00:10:45.400 worldview they are totally humiliated have nothing left to appeal to then they tend to come around

00:10:49.900 yeah yeah yeah uh so but when you say taking advantage would you agree with me that the

00:10:54.880 whatever podcast is one of the largest irl podcasts in the world i don't know the metrics

00:10:59.360 but sure yeah okay would people have an incentive to come on to a podcast like that

00:11:04.660 yeah for perhaps their own personal gains yes and could those people come on here and just

00:11:11.120 completely annihilate us destroy our worldview make us look stupid completely kick my ass in a debate

00:11:16.280 isn't that all available to them to do it's possible okay so if all those people can do that

00:11:20.620 and they're coming on from the specific motivation of building their own brand and they end up getting

00:11:25.260 annihilated in a debate even though all of my debates are out there they can research me inside and out

00:11:29.760 they have every advantage i've never met them once who's taking advantage of who i would argue yeah

00:11:35.760 they're probably not aware of what they're signing up for and you are doing what you feel like you can

00:11:39.680 do in this podcast what evidence do you have that they don't know what they're signing up for

00:11:43.220 i feel like sometimes people are just i feel i don't i don't need i feel what's your evidence not

00:11:48.820 feelings it's social media right people are led by fame people are led by the desire to be liked

00:11:52.920 people are led by i would say largely um females as well too the lust of being looked at and being

00:11:57.540 lusted how's that our responsibility not theirs well i think you guys can correct them yeah okay great

00:12:02.320 but you said taking advantage my argument to you is no they're taking advantage of the program they

00:12:07.460 want to get on and they have every opportunity that we do not have yeah right because they don't

00:12:12.400 have the social media presence a person can go research my debates for hours yeah right look for

00:12:18.600 any logic little inconsistency anything that they think could give them an avenue for attack they

00:12:23.840 could do all of that yeah i have the disadvantage i'm meeting with nine complete strangers every

00:12:28.860 single week know nothing about them i don't get the names until an hour okay before these women come

00:12:33.820 on literally yeah okay i get the same information the audience gets the only way i get the names is if

00:12:39.180 i read the thumbnail and i'm like who the hell are they i don't i don't know who any of them are yeah

00:12:43.220 so i'm at a disadvantage okay they're at every advantage who's taking advantage of who here i would

00:12:49.020 argue that you guys let them on in the first place why is that us taking advantage of them the

00:12:52.840 luke that's what you're not answering like them just coming on you have not demonstrated how that's

00:12:58.520 us taking advantage of them and you've conceded that it sounds like they have tons of motivation to

00:13:03.420 come on i don't understand how we're taking advantage of them how are they not taking advantage of this

00:13:09.180 opportunity they're trying to take advantage to get attention oh so they're trying to take advantage

00:13:12.980 of us yes on your platform got it so but i think i think so i just want to make sure when you say

00:13:17.860 taking advantage i agree brian you should not let these women take advantage of you like this

00:13:22.660 and luke agrees to 100 just conceded that they you shouldn't let them take advantage of you that's

00:13:28.440 not fair brian i personally believe that responsibility does come especially as a man with education i'm sorry

00:13:34.540 there's men who come on the broadcast as well yeah but i'm wondering why is it that we're

00:13:38.160 infantilizing women and women do not in any way shape or form have the capacity to understand that

00:13:43.920 they need to do a research to go on a show why do women not have the capacity to understand that

00:13:49.080 they could be entering into an arrangement do you think that women are just children who are

00:13:54.140 infantilized and have no responsibility but like i said before i was talking about the idea of the

00:13:58.100 broken worldview that they're sold i think a lot of them being raised on social media not having both

00:14:02.320 parents in the home are sold this false bill of goods and what about all these women who come on who

00:14:06.380 have both parents in the home right they not only have both parents in the home but the parents go

00:14:10.420 and they pat them on the head and say hey good job glad you got gang banged last night i mean you're

00:14:14.020 making a lot of money sweetie and i've never seen that oh it happens all the time interesting

00:14:18.480 not only does it happen all the time i call it out all the time and say what did your dad think

00:14:21.980 and you know what they say yeah that's really supportive do you think they're being honest

00:14:25.320 sometimes okay yeah sometimes sometimes i think they're full of shit but how would i know

00:14:29.580 how would i know unless i ask these kind of probing inquiring questions in order to draw

00:14:34.440 the worldview out and that's going to risk offense right no absolutely i i agree continue asking the

00:14:38.540 probing questions but i think afterwards i think you should show them what the truth is to correct

00:14:42.300 them instead of just breaking them down and from obviously i haven't watched all your guys podcasts

00:14:46.040 and i know you guys have a lot more of a pulse on what dating looks like today versus them what i

00:14:50.260 would but i think it's important to educate where it's like hey if you genuinely care about these people

00:14:54.020 and yeah they might be coming with false motives take advantage of you but i genuinely think christ is you

00:14:59.220 know he's the epitome of the logos yeah most important well i think that you're conflating

00:15:02.600 two different ideas so you keep on saying okay uh you can show them the truth this and that this

00:15:07.400 and okay fair fair that's all fair and we can get to that but right now we're still on this idea of

00:15:12.280 the taking advantage portion i still haven't seen you actually make a good case here for how anybody's

00:15:18.460 getting taken advantage of except brian brian has the massive podcast brian takes all the risk

00:15:23.340 right and brian's outnumbered nine to one now if there was right now you were in that seat and there

00:15:28.080 was nine different people right here yeah debating with you and you had to fight every second for

00:15:32.360 speaking time yeah would you feel like maybe perhaps you were wildly outnumbered maybe yeah yeah

00:15:37.760 maybe i mean are they all arguing that's me well that's me every week are they all arguing against

00:15:41.820 me because i feel like you kind of come at them as well too like i feel like they're not coming on

00:15:45.100 just to yes i'm an aggressive debater that's true yeah but it doesn't matter it's still kind of

00:15:49.040 asking for it because you enjoy it it's still 1v9 right yeah but i'm not complaining i mean some of

00:15:54.200 the girls are on your side it wasn't 1v9 wait they are are we taking advantage of them too

00:15:58.140 no i don't think so well not them just we're only taking advantage of the ones i disagree with

00:16:02.300 i think the ones did you have social media growing up no i was born for the internet okay yeah and i

00:16:08.080 was raised i don't even think the internet was really a thing till i was like late teens yeah like

00:16:13.780 95 or something yeah later on and the reason why i say that is because your home wasn't invaded by a

00:16:18.220 lot of these false worldviews and ideas and even the temptation just to prostitute yourself out

00:16:22.260 for validation and for money and so those ideas were there what's up those ideas were there they

00:16:26.980 were just uh given to you in a different package they weren't hard to access there was plenty of

00:16:32.040 plenty of women now it is true that the marketing aspect of it for this has become easier than ever

00:16:37.700 with social media but these ideas the ideas themselves no yeah even in the 90s there was just as much

00:16:43.680 indoctrination going on feminist indoctrination all this type of stuff but luke before i let you move on

00:16:49.480 from this i really do need that demonstration of taking advantage of them i because i think that

00:16:55.780 largely all these homes have been invaded by a toxic and i'd ultimately say demonic ideology and

00:17:00.820 confronting that is taking advantage of it i think not presenting them with the truth and letting them

00:17:05.400 sit and just feel shame for buying into this ideology that we all agree is wrong you mean the

00:17:09.740 thing that'll spur them to find the truth yeah oh but you don't present it so oh wait i'm sorry

00:17:14.700 what spurs them to find the truth you know take showing them where they're wrong asking the

00:17:18.540 questions so so you're saying that uh because i don't use this as a pulpit for preaching i don't

00:17:24.200 need to right that if i destroy an ideology it's completely in ruins and racked and they're sitting

00:17:29.620 there in shame what do you think that spurs them to go do luke i don't know find a different truth

00:17:34.240 but who's to say they're gonna find the right one there's only one right isn't that your belief

00:17:38.060 yeah i believe so okay so uh from your view and my view jesus christ is the truth right source of all

00:17:43.680 wisdom right yeah okay and knock and what happens luke knock and the door shall be open to you

00:17:50.900 right knock and the door shall be open thing is it's like all you're saying to me is wait a second

00:17:55.640 their ideology is completely destroyed and now they're gonna start knocking on some doors right

00:17:59.160 yeah okay and you don't feel like it's your responsibility to present that as a christian

00:18:02.680 d are you do you recognize that i follow up many of these women after the show has done or they follow

00:18:06.440 up with me oh i didn't know that yeah do you are you aware also that there could be times and

00:18:11.200 places where it's more appropriate to uh push these views when these women can discuss them

00:18:15.780 outside the of the realm of i was essayed by my dad yeah i was essayed by my cousin uh these horrible

00:18:23.420 things happened to me thanks for not bringing any of that stuff up right yeah there's a more appropriate

00:18:29.240 time perhaps to go after those things i think that's then in the middle of a dating podcast right i

00:18:33.960 really think that's honorable and i'm really happy that you guys do that that makes me uh really happy

00:18:37.680 yeah but but before you knew any of that before you even asked about any of that yep you had a

00:18:43.160 criticism luke yeah i did isn't that interesting yep yeah i mean obviously i recognize luke i don't

00:18:48.300 know it sounds like you're here to get a little notoriety no maybe luke you're taking advantage of

00:18:54.020 the whatever podcast right now possibly possibly okay willing to move on to the next point all right um

00:19:01.540 do you mind if i circle back really sure go ahead do you feel like you have a platform right and you

00:19:06.040 said you were talking about being the number one in the world no i'm not the number one number one

00:19:09.420 dating podcast nope not the number one i'm saying that what was the metric i said it's one of the

00:19:13.640 largest irl dating podcasts in the world yes do you think the state of dating from your personal

00:19:18.720 opinion is in a state of health or disarray oh it's it's a it's a fucking mess okay yeah do you feel

00:19:25.160 any personal responsibility to show people the truth instead of just tearing down what's in disarray i do

00:19:31.660 show them the truth okay but the thing is is that you do realize from a secular perspective that you

00:19:36.320 can explain true statements of the metaphysical and of jesus christ even to a secularist through

00:19:41.920 secular means that they can find this on their own yeah right you realize that i do realize and that

00:19:46.000 that's a not only a really good debate tactic but it's a really good way to not annoy people

00:19:50.900 yeah right because you know what really pisses people off bible thumpers yeah people who when you're

00:19:57.420 in the middle of an argument pull their bible out and start well i don't know reading scripture to

00:20:02.680 them which is what your great plan was right noise them to death what doesn't annoy them i had friends

00:20:07.440 come to christ what doesn't annoy them is incremental change well yeah they're your friends they're in

00:20:11.420 your social circle you can work on them all day weren't until they came to christ and then i met

00:20:16.120 them so wait you were just walking down the street and pulled out your bible the one who read scripture

00:20:19.320 to them oh isn't that convenient isn't that convenient it wasn't you who read the scripture and they

00:20:24.080 turn but somebody somewhere did here's how it really works people's worldviews do not get smashed

00:20:29.020 all at once it takes time it's incremental yeah and the process for moving over is incremental too

00:20:33.740 there could be and i'm not going to dispute this i'm sure that there are some people who some guy who's

00:20:38.940 super intense and way more articulate and way smarter and way braver and all the adjectives you can

00:20:43.540 think of than me has looked at a woman and been like stop prostituting come to jesus and she was like

00:20:48.740 okay i haven't seen it yeah i'm sure it's happened i haven't seen it i do see a methodology which does

00:20:55.360 work though which is destroying a worldview and then building that worldview back into something else

00:20:59.620 it's incremental takes many sessions but first you have to demonstrate the horrors of the behavior to

00:21:03.940 begin with absolutely i think we both continue to agree on that point i think it's from that point

00:21:08.840 going forwards i would largely say too even condemning people of saying like listen you're wrong you've done

00:21:14.060 all these horrible things ultimately i think that's what actually qualifies someone for the gospel

00:21:17.800 they have to recognize that they're a sinner and i think in america we really struggle to take

00:21:21.380 personal responsibility for our sin so i think this platform is a great opportunity what the hell is

00:21:25.400 this criticism of taking advantage so not only are are you kind of conceding that they're taking

00:21:30.340 advantage the other direction more than we're taking advantage our direction advantage but you let

00:21:34.700 them on yeah why is that a problem to let them on i mean you can't be taken advantage of if you're

00:21:40.040 willingly letting them on okay well then they can't be taken advantage of by that same logic by

00:21:45.320 willingly what coming on okay thanks luke sure i'll concede that point okay so there's quite a bit more

00:21:53.140 to get through but the really uh one of the things you brought up was the uh substances you said in

00:21:59.700 your message to us multiple times women asked to end the stream to return to their responsibilities

00:22:04.060 and you instead shut them down and offered substances uh can you just clarify what substances

00:22:11.300 were you believe were offered so i may have been wrong i believe it was maybe just alcohol and

00:22:16.900 maybe caffeine but um from what my girlfriend said at the time the hey give me a beer by the way

00:22:23.980 good timing just in case you know substances yeah and i will say normally i don't have an issue with

00:22:29.660 substances the only issue is that i believe the show was scheduled to end to the contestant or not

00:22:34.620 contestants debaters at the time communicated about 10 p.m it was getting late into the night around

00:22:39.660 maybe 12 to 12 30 and some people would ask to go home including a mother and a woman who was going

00:22:44.400 to do ministry on the sidewalk in front of planned parenthood the next morning very early and they

00:22:48.340 were planning on being done at 10 p.m and when they had asked multiple times to leave they were

00:22:52.260 instead offered alcohol and caffeine to keep them going and then the conversation kept going there was

00:22:57.220 twitch readouts and i felt like that was kind of taking advantage of people's schedule and what you

00:23:00.740 had communicated i'm actually enjoying the framing here so let me i won't say maybe taking advantage

00:23:05.560 let me uh let me read the framing here to you okay so what you would call uh it you you took

00:23:12.560 advantage by offering um by offering substances if we say take advantage it's we're gonna okay you

00:23:18.480 offered them substances right and and this was untoward you're actually from what i hear is you

00:23:24.320 were looking after your guests needs so your guests if your guest was hungry gave them food they

00:23:29.560 wanted a drink you gave them a drink they wanted alcohol at 21 years old you can give them an hour

00:23:33.240 yeah now i don't know about you luke but if if i have a podcast and i have somebody over on a

00:23:38.220 podcast you want to care you know what i also what i do a lot i go hey man this is going a little

00:23:42.380 longer you want a beer yeah and you know what they usually say you'll never guess it they say yes yeah

00:23:47.480 so yeah sure man i'd love to have a beer so this this is all framing right you're just framing this

00:23:54.840 well in this specific instance that i watched the person who was offered the alcohol did not ask for

00:24:00.300 alcohol and more importantly they had asked on the opposite side along with two other people what

00:24:04.240 does that mean asked on the opposite side they had asked to leave okay you don't ask to leave

00:24:08.440 why do you ask to leave i don't know maybe because you want to follow the rules of the show like

00:24:13.640 luke are you being held hostage here no i could leave are there men behind you with uzis who are

00:24:20.100 threatening that if you get up off that chair and walk out the door that you will be put down or can

00:24:24.760 you just get up right this second and walk out and nobody would do a fucking thing maybe they

00:24:29.620 wanted to follow the rules that you guys what rules i don't know i i don't know just to get

00:24:35.700 this right they're following rules that you don't know inside of some type of contract you don't

00:24:41.020 understand and your criticism is that their needs were being met by whatever they wanted to clarify i

00:24:48.320 believe my criticism was that beyond what it had been communicated before for the sake of what appears

00:24:53.360 to be financial gain and just clipping people i think they were offered substances as an incentive to

00:24:58.720 stay on after having asked to leave yeah just like i would offer my friend a beer and say hey we're

00:25:03.820 going a little long on the show would you like a beer yeah but i think there's a difference too

00:25:07.700 with people that have responsibilities and they want to go home yeah but why would that be a criticism

00:25:11.240 towards the show like why that would be like criticism criticizing me if i had a person on my show

00:25:18.600 yeah and said we're going a little this actually just happened to me yeah i was on a show with

00:25:23.220 elijah shaffer oh yeah okay and he was like hey man uh i know that we're going a little bit longer

00:25:29.520 and he had to leave right you know would you like a drink yeah you just kind of barrel through the

00:25:35.100 rest of this now i took advantage of my gracious host yeah offering to me this drink was very kind of

00:25:42.260 him to do you know what i didn't do i didn't go later and go oh guys i couldn't believe you know

00:25:48.280 we went over and this son of a bitch offered me a drink this bastard uh we gotta we gotta get him

00:25:54.780 doesn't that sound absurd to you it could i think did you ask to leave first though yeah well in fact

00:26:00.500 emphatically i said listen i have a hard out i have a hard out because i had another podcast i had to get

00:26:06.320 to so i was like dude i have a hard out we went over the time anyway yeah shit happens right hey

00:26:12.480 man can you can you stay can you stay i know we're a little over can you stay yeah and how about a drink

00:26:18.940 yeah boy this is real nefarious stuff luke this is uh this is some real bad knife twisting stuff you

00:26:25.780 got going here i think the context is different um why because it's females versus males oh because

00:26:31.180 we're back to infantilizing women again no i think it's women can't assert themselves they were

00:26:35.480 being held hostage they had no choice they had to be here they have no autonomy and if luke was

00:26:40.380 here you would have made sure right you would have walked them right out the door if they would

00:26:43.220 have asked to leave after the time that we communicated that they believe would be done i

00:26:46.620 would let them out might i jump in briefly on a couple things i i will try to at least for the

00:26:52.180 remainder of the debate be fairly uh unbiased here but i do at least want to clarify just a couple

00:26:57.860 things so i pulled up the messages that we have with carly and i i said the and this is what's

00:27:03.420 communicated to almost all the guests who come on yeah so the me time's 4 p.m we wrap around wrap

00:27:09.900 around 10 but may go later though okay uh and sometimes the communication depending on the

00:27:15.620 person it's communicated a little differently yeah we will typically say wrap around 10 or 11

00:27:21.320 but we may go later though in addition to that people who typically have days weeks or even months to

00:27:27.820 do even a modicum of research uh can look for themselves and see the length of the individual

00:27:34.860 podcast they can see that it's six seven eight hours yeah at times they can sort of do a uh

00:27:40.300 assessment there okay if we're going to meet at 4 p.m then that means that and we go live at 5 p.m

00:27:45.580 that means i should anticipate the show ending anywhere from 10 11 or 12 p.m i believe we wrapped

00:27:50.940 around sometime between 12 and 12 30 that night closer to one yeah well do you know what time that is

00:27:56.680 in my time it's pretty late yeah it's almost yeah usually i get done 5 a.m were they taking

00:28:01.820 advantage of you keeping you up no certainly not and just lastly and by the way if i wanted to you

00:28:07.420 know what i could do it's amazing you know what i could do if i was like hey brian you know what i

00:28:11.300 got a hard out and he said no i could just go okay you could just log off and breathe yeah and

00:28:17.800 there's nothing anybody on planet earth could do about that because you're a co-host of the show no

00:28:22.620 i'm not a co-host i'm guest you're a guest you're a frequent guest frequent who has a good

00:28:28.060 relationship with the host yeah but there's other females who are here who are frequent guests who

00:28:31.780 also have a great relationship with the host there's other men who have a great relationship

00:28:35.240 with the host there's jake rattlesnake mason by the way who's laid up in a hospital right now

00:28:39.360 great relationship with brian yeah many many of these people have a great relationship with brian

00:28:44.760 this kind of absurd idea that there was like some sort of hostage taking going on

00:28:49.160 is um that's all rhetoric designed around framing you you can even take something as

00:28:55.580 non-nefarious as offering your guests refreshment and somehow turn that into an assault on the guest

00:29:01.680 and you can see from my end how i think that that's so absurd and that you're framing it up

00:29:06.660 to make somebody an evil do or nefarious character yeah who had no nefarious intentions at all except

00:29:11.560 to finish out the show strong and make sure the guest needs were attended to yeah i i apologize i may

00:29:16.720 have misread your guys's intentions but from an outside perspective it just looked like people

00:29:20.420 were trying to leave after the time that had been communicated and instead you guys were

00:29:23.840 incentivizing them to stay yeah content for personal gain if i wasn't reading that wait wait wait if you

00:29:29.860 have people who agree to be a guest on your show okay you're doing the show yeah you go over time yeah

00:29:35.120 what in the world would ever in a million years be wrong with offering them incentives to stay

00:29:40.200 i was just refusing their request to leave you don't you can't refuse a request to leave

00:29:45.220 it's not it's not a thing which can be done like how would i refuse your request to leave

00:29:50.300 say no no luke you can't leave and then what happens you get up and leave right i don't

00:29:57.740 i don't really understand like i'm really lost on this luke i'm not gonna lie i'm starting to get

00:30:02.900 lost as well too but the main point i was getting after was just the time of communication staying up

00:30:07.740 late being up till around 12 30 on a night when most people are working and then when asking to

00:30:12.520 leave just offering was this a tuesday or sunday it was a tuesday it was tuesday night i believe it

00:30:16.400 was a tuesday show final thing on this and then i'll just let you guys back to get back to it uh

00:30:21.060 the the substances component here um that is also a bit of framing yeah you know by referring it to

00:30:28.440 giving them illicit substances instead of so like if you gave a pizza wouldn't that be a substance it

00:30:34.060 could be yeah here's here's some trans fat uh you monsters i do want uh and perhaps i i don't know

00:30:43.740 if it's even worth pulling it up but i i did do a cursory bear in mind these episodes are seven hours

00:30:49.460 long yeah i briefly went over the transcript uh you said that alcohol was offered i actually looked it

00:30:57.160 over and i believe it was actually i don't know if it was me making the offer or if it was specifically

00:31:02.660 nicolette requesting for alcohol so i'm not i could be i don't want to say definitively because

00:31:09.420 it's a good thing i went back and looked i'm pretty sure what happened is nicolette was we were talking

00:31:15.760 about how she was a party girl right she wanted some booze yeah monster you fucking monster you

00:31:23.460 you were willing to you were willing to grant this grown not infant woman's request to have that now

00:31:30.620 luke to be fair when you came here i was also a monster i did offer you a beer is that correct yes

00:31:38.000 did you think that that was nefarious no i don't think it's nefarious i do think it does help people

00:31:42.680 open up more and you know helps conversation go well and also do people get their nerves racked right

00:31:47.980 and do you think like having one alcoholic beverage can assist with that absolutely and do you think

00:31:53.140 that a person could request that because they want that yeah where's the monster behavior i'm not

00:31:59.640 trying to paint you guys as a monster i just want to go back to the point here and like i said maybe i

00:32:03.660 maybe i miswatched the transcript and maybe this is a completely invalid criticism but from what i had

00:32:09.160 seen i had seen two women one who was a mother and one who was about to do ministry in the morning

00:32:12.680 request to leave after the time that was communicated going into on a weeknight to leave and then a third

00:32:18.600 request i believe from nicolette saying she was tired and she wanted to go home before being offered

00:32:22.840 i can't believe how irresponsible these women are a mother irresponsibly decided to go on a podcast on

00:32:30.280 a weeknight along with a woman who had another engagement in the morning thinking they could fit

00:32:34.300 all of that through these are irresponsible people luke did you send any of them a dm telling them that it

00:32:41.340 was irresponsible of them when they have children at home to and that they they may have to run back to

00:32:47.620 to go on a podcast on a work night did you tell any of these women how irresponsible they were

00:32:53.640 of fucking course not just brian just brian's fault right because the poor women they're just so if

00:32:59.360 they're little angels they're angels and brian's exploiting them for his own personal gain not a

00:33:06.240 single message right luke nothing just brian yeah okay couple couple other things here on the

00:33:12.900 substances component uh again definitively i didn't look at the entire transcript

00:33:17.600 i do believe it was nicolette who she requested the alcohol i don't think i made any uh offerings

00:33:24.320 specifically of alcohol in an effort to get guests to say i do believe i offered energy drinks because

00:33:30.620 but it was more so some of the guests like you said nicolette stated that she was tired yeah some of

00:33:36.420 the other guests stated they were tired yeah and so they perhaps wanted to leave because they were tired

00:33:41.060 i felt it was appropriate to offer an energy drink yeah to alleviate the tiredness yeah uh so in terms

00:33:50.400 of offering substances i believe it was a red bull perhaps a monster energy don't recall the exact

00:33:56.940 uh but i did i i admit i i did offer energy drinks substances i don't think caffeine yeah i don't

00:34:06.000 think the substances was as evil sure like i said maybe i was wrong in interpreting but you guys were

00:34:11.120 just trying to care for them but i feel like as hosts if someone does ask to leave the most caring

00:34:14.980 thing to do is to oblige i think the most caring thing for a responsible mother to do would be to not

00:34:19.620 come on a podcast like that if she had other engagements with her kid if she was communicated that

00:34:23.000 would end at 10 she would probably be like okay oh so they get a pass so so wait so they had an

00:34:28.120 expectation that expectation didn't work out they get a pass he has an expectation that expectation

00:34:32.700 doesn't work out fuck him what was his expectation the expectation was that you stay for the show

00:34:36.420 duration it could go past x time barely very fairly communicated he just read the communication

00:34:41.300 could go past this time yeah what's the expectation here luke fair point final thing on the substance

00:34:48.460 thing i do just want to offer this up as clarification we actually make it a uh sort of a rule that we

00:34:55.480 actually don't want to offer people any alcohol not before the show we don't want any sort of uh

00:35:03.060 correct i've got my ass chewed so there was a time it was the last time i was down here in person

00:35:07.920 yeah i was around with the girls and there was this a chick i'd been on the the program with before

00:35:14.080 and i always bring my beer in here because i'm not gonna fucking do what brian says right but

00:35:17.440 but um but she was you know she was sitting there and i was like hey you want a beer she said sure

00:35:22.920 yeah right so i gave her a beer and brian was like no with the the pre-show like no he chewed my ass for

00:35:29.820 it never did it again right chewed my ass but we uh yeah we do tend to make it a habit of uh other shows

00:35:37.960 will sometimes offer alcohol but it's sort of uh there there could be some perception of impropriety

00:35:46.060 for example someone might make a uh allegation that we are attempting to liquor up the guests

00:35:53.220 prior to the show in an effort to get them to say things they wouldn't otherwise say you mean a guy

00:35:58.320 like luke i to be fair i didn't say prior to no sure i just wanted to clarify that for any of the

00:36:04.440 viewers we actually pretty hard and fast rule we don't offer any alcohol to the guests prior to the

00:36:09.440 show the only instance where we except for me what's that except for me well i offered it well and the

00:36:14.740 thing is he's not the host so the thing is it's like there's a lot of wisdom in it right and once

00:36:19.800 it was explained to me why i was like okay you know because i saw it as harmless yeah right that's

00:36:24.940 that's how i do things i i'm in the midwest when you come to my house there's three things that are

00:36:30.440 going to happen cigar the first thing that's going to happen is you're going to get fed and i have no

00:36:34.540 say in that okay my wife's going to feed you no matter what it doesn't even matter if you came

00:36:38.480 right from a restaurant you're getting fed yeah period doesn't matter the second thing is i'm going

00:36:43.340 to offer you a drink right and then the third thing is probably a little bit of gun shooting

00:36:48.140 right those like the big three but at least the the fed and now like that's just a given that's how

00:36:53.780 everybody does things so i see it as harmless right someone's like hey that looks great it was a hot

00:36:58.940 day you know what i mean like sure you want a beer i didn't think of it didn't think anything

00:37:02.760 of it yeah but there was a lot of wisdom what brian said right it's essentially a bit of a

00:37:07.980 liability for us to even uh to to offer people alcohol because again they could make some sort

00:37:14.340 of claims that they came on the show they got yeah they tried to get us drunk so that we could say

00:37:19.900 so just sort of across the board rule we don't offer alcohol the only time is occasionally people

00:37:25.680 will do a donation tier for a champagne pop in which case they'll have about they'll get poured

00:37:31.660 about three sips worth of uh champagnes yeah aside from i think actually on the show your girlfriend

00:37:37.900 was on there's a champagne donated 100 hey thank you this gentleman turned used loosely definitely

00:37:43.920 has a humiliation fetish what the he's seen the skill level of andrew and knew full well he was going

00:37:48.780 to be the underdog i bet he's at half mast under that table all right seniors appreciate it i will

00:37:56.140 really quick pull up that's a good roast we'll pull up a super chat here from pelagic too pelagic

00:38:01.740 says this guy's a manipulator he's setting a trap dangerous to converse with these types talking

00:38:07.100 about luke or andrew i was gonna say all right pelagic good to see you in the chat man really

00:38:11.020 appreciate it guys like the video please uh like the video and then uh could you also pull up the

00:38:15.100 twitch and discord really quick and then we'll get into the rest of the uh uh let's just do twitch

00:38:20.620 then discord really quick guys go to twitch.tv slash whatever drops a follow on the prime sub if you

00:38:24.940 have one really appreciate it guys and then guys just join join excuse me our discord discord.gg

00:38:30.140 slash whatever we post all kinds of stuff we put we've i've been posting a bunch of hate mail i've

00:38:34.780 received uh it's really funny oh have you read some of it it's so funny go to that discord all the

00:38:41.180 time and just read it so it's uh it's definitely interesting i don't know if you saw the one about

00:38:45.020 the woman who said she would own and destroy yeah okay uh we'll come back donated 100 hey thank you

00:38:51.740 no i appreciate it if anyone offers me a drink in theater home i drop kick them they obviously

00:38:56.220 can't be trusted they obviously can't be those psychopaths those psychopaths uh pull up discord

00:39:01.820 really quick again guys discord.gg slash whatever we post a bunch of the uh behind the scenes by the

00:39:07.100 way what's up no it's nice to see you buddy yeah thank you noah so guys we've been posting behind

00:39:11.020 scenes uh we've been doing some irl streams by the way guys uh we posted this clip uh we were out with

00:39:17.340 jake rattlesnake it was last weekend this this guy he's like the stream sniper he's it's the third

00:39:24.540 time we were out yesterday he he's insane we posted the bts of it we post some kickouts so be sure to

00:39:30.860 check it out discord.gg slash whatever and then really quick i'll just sense it's relevant but it's

00:39:34.620 below the threshold uh we had uh this woman pink pill on uh was it the tuesday show austin

00:39:41.980 don't offer yeah we don't um we make it a rule not to offer alcohol we don't want any uh even

00:39:49.420 appearances of impropriety so um just wanted to clarify that on the whole substance in this front

00:39:55.100 uh let's get into the rest of the i guess some of the criticisms here um austin are you able to pull

00:40:03.020 up the window tab so we can actually see what was written just okay so uh i copy and pasted the

00:40:11.580 instagram messages into a notepad here so uh can we start with please be respectful of the women

00:40:17.580 you have on in the future we don't make them want to come back really quick before actually i think uh

00:40:23.260 there was some conversations about andrew being a frequent frequent guest uh nicolette is actually

00:40:29.260 also she's been on the show i think five six times i just wanted to point that out so yeah uh

00:40:34.700 she's and also very good sport yeah yeah yeah have you seen change no not at all okay are you

00:40:42.700 still following up with messaging uh i don't think i've received a message okay because you were you

00:40:47.500 were talking about presenting people after shattering their worldview on camera usually they contact me

00:40:51.580 oh okay you andrew you wanted to get into the please be respectful of the women you have on in the

00:40:57.340 future yeah okay listen so here's here's my take on this right uh this criticism usually comes from

00:41:03.500 people who don't watch the long form of the show they watch the clips yeah so when they see the

00:41:08.300 clip they see a heated exchange but they have no context for the exchange so i'm just going to be

00:41:14.220 blunt and ask you yeah is this idea coming from the clips or is it coming from you actually having

00:41:19.820 watched several long form whatever podcast episodes i have seen one or two full seven hour all 14 hour

00:41:27.740 of your guys content yeah so then i don't understand the criticism because you should know then

00:41:31.900 that almost always the conversations are very kind of mundane and talk about kind of mundane things

00:41:38.700 they only get heated if we kind of brush up against political topics or when ideologies begin to

00:41:45.020 converge right that's not only expected but i i don't even understand why you would have a problem

00:41:51.020 with that you know for sure that that's the most divisive thing on planet earth you're carrying around

00:41:56.380 with you oh yeah so so what the hell is this criticism the criticism can you repeat the question

00:42:02.380 one more time yeah it's be respectful to the women's because you're going to hurt their feeling

00:42:06.060 they won't come back to the show yeah the criticism was specifically directed to people who had opened

00:42:10.220 up about being bullied before and receiving a lot of harassment yeah their character and then doubling

00:42:16.620 down on that after you had already shattered their worldview and like i said not presenting them with the truth and i

00:42:20.780 ultimately feel like that's more condemning yeah have you ever heard the term cry bully say again have

00:42:25.980 you ever heard the term cry bully no so cry bully is somebody who uh they come on they they do the

00:42:33.100 bullying but then when you hit back yeah they cry about it hurt people hurt people right oh you're this

00:42:39.980 you're that you're this yeah you hit them back with one thing and suddenly oh i can't believe you said

00:42:45.260 that to me right if you've watched these long form episodes you'll note that most of the time uh i just

00:42:53.020 match energy yep so if you're like if you're pretty chill you're pretty laid back i'm pretty chill and

00:42:58.220 laid back yeah right if uh if you're kind of loud and obnoxious i'll be loud and obnoxious if you do if

00:43:05.180 you want to move into personal attacks i move right into the personal attacks right the but what that actually

00:43:10.300 does is it de-escalates a situation so generally when a person knows it's just like the idea of the

00:43:15.900 person who thinks they can punch you yeah if you if they know you'll punch back they're less likely

00:43:20.700 to punch you right it's the same exact mentality there yeah right so the idea is not to escalates

00:43:26.540 to de-escalate and the best way to do that is when somebody is giving you a certain type of energy

00:43:32.620 if you kind of give it right back to them they tend to kind of chill out a little more like ah

00:43:36.860 you're not the guy who i want to do this way yeah you're pushing back turning right do you

00:43:41.420 actually see anything wrong with that i understand it um i think i would from a more biblical standpoint

00:43:46.700 uh i've looked a little bit into eastern orthodoxy nice eyebrow um theosis process of you know becoming

00:43:53.180 like christ right i don't think i see that behavior in you mean pit of vipers right you're gonna you're

00:43:58.460 gonna go to hell you're gonna go to hell you're a pit of vipers those people were prideful and they

00:44:02.380 would not recognize their sin oh and i think oh i think you were in a situation really they were

00:44:07.020 prideful wouldn't recognize their sin pushed back against jesus yep said he was a false messiah ended

00:44:11.820 up putting him on a cross killing him yeah yeah those guys yeah i'm thinking that in this situation

00:44:16.460 of the adulterous woman christ actually said i do not condemn you he said go and sin no more yeah

00:44:21.420 john eight go and sin no more now did she fight him was she arguing with christ before he was

00:44:27.020 talking about she wasn't arguing with him she never argued with christ did she go you're not the

00:44:31.260 son of god i am queen i am queen of the desert i am queen of this desert you are not the son of did

00:44:40.460 she do any of that or did she agree with him and then he told her to go sit in no more go sit no more

00:44:46.060 so have you ever heard a woman go andrew i agree with you i should stop being a prostitute and i was

00:44:50.140 like no no it's that's not good enough you must you must be pun it has that ever happened i haven't

00:44:56.380 watched all your episodes never happened but i would i would say that sometimes you could have the

00:44:59.660 discernment to see someone who is projecting and who is a hurt person that is hurting other people

00:45:04.220 and you could meet them with compassion and say listen i'm actually not going to engage and go

00:45:07.980 tit for tat with the name card and with all these things and you've actually exposed one of the reasons

00:45:12.620 why you're probably doing this because of a prior wound from someone else and then you could you mean

00:45:18.620 them yeah they're they're exposing from a wound they're exposing the wound yeah that's all pseudo

00:45:22.300 psychological nonsense right sure it could just be because they're a bitch did you ever think of that like

00:45:26.940 it could just be that the makeup of this woman yeah there is no prior wound there is no prior thing

00:45:32.380 that happened there is no real crutch for them to lean on they're just kind of a rotten bitch

00:45:37.260 like is that ever even occurred to you that there's a possibility that some women are so entitled and

00:45:42.780 have their asses kissed all day long that just hearing a tiny bit of pushback triggers them and makes

00:45:48.700 them completely irrational uh turning turning them into like nonsense babbling lunatics like is that possible

00:45:56.620 to i think christ died to save sinners of whom i am chief and i don't want to judge yeah sure

00:46:02.060 knock them down and you just you're judging me i'm not trying to judge you or how are you not judging

00:46:06.460 me you just you're making all sorts of value assessments and value judgments based on preconceived

00:46:11.340 notions and you don't even have in many of these cases the correct information

00:46:16.060 how is it okay though i think the only reason you feel like it's okay to assess and judge me

00:46:21.340 is because you think he can take it i'm not trying to judge you i'm trying to show what i believe

00:46:27.740 the truth to be and the correct way to go about the behavior go and sin no more yeah what does that

00:46:32.140 mean telling them to stop and forsake their sin yeah so do they have to acknowledge that i think so

00:46:37.500 if they're arguing with you are they acknowledging that maybe if they're arguing with you they're

00:46:41.900 acknowledging that they might be you can't tell what well if i couldn't tell then how could i make

00:46:48.700 that assessment you can't tell you have to make the assessment i think regardless of what they're

00:46:55.260 saying back to you your message always still has to be compassion and repentance yeah even if they're

00:47:00.060 pushing back yeah but telling the truth uh-huh is going to to to a person who believes the things

00:47:05.980 that these people believe yeah it's going to be mean from their perspective it's gonna be cruel it's

00:47:10.140 gonna be awful it's gonna be horrible you're gonna be a monster how can i assess if a woman is still

00:47:15.100 arguing with me no that she's she's coming to the message that makes no sense dude how could how you

00:47:21.180 tell me how could i assess that ever maybe the fact that they're revealing their uh prior wounds like i

00:47:26.540 was saying before when they say they're proud of them i mean do you really think they are sometimes

00:47:31.500 yeah for sure i would probably disagree there but yeah i know but we can't you wouldn't base it on

00:47:36.540 anything you would have nothing to base it on you would how can i make an assessment on what a

00:47:42.140 person what's in their heart other than what comes out of their mouth yeah and i apologize i might be

00:47:47.180 projecting here but i will just say from a personal experience especially with talking with people that

00:47:50.860 do want to push back and argue i usually come from the perspective of this person i need to share

00:47:55.340 jesus christ with this person not only his judgment and his conviction of sin but more importantly

00:47:59.980 repentance and the kindness of god that leads us to repentance and i think that's an element that i

00:48:03.980 always want to infuse even if they are pushing back but there's a time for placement of that as

00:48:08.380 well and that's discernment yes is knowing the time to place this yeah but this really avoids my

00:48:15.660 question how can you make a value judgment or a value assessment on somebody's arguing against your

00:48:21.980 position uh-huh and think oh they get it how could you ever do that i don't think you can you can't do

00:48:27.260 it yeah right so then i don't understand the criticism of saying but andrew you are you have

00:48:32.940 special discernment that nobody else on planet earth has that i'm aware of where you can discern

00:48:38.780 based on some i don't know some like esp or something like this what's actually in their heart how

00:48:44.540 could i ever do that this is where i would probably say it would be the holy spirit yeah okay

00:48:51.420 you couldn't do that you couldn't make that value assessment ever you just admitted that

00:48:57.900 you couldn't do it strength yeah you well but when you say the holy spirit you could think

00:49:03.660 something's a holy spirit and it's not you still have to gauge and judge things with when when you say

00:49:10.140 discernment that's what we're talking about here right if if everything that's coming out of your mouth

00:49:15.500 is counter to what i'm saying to you or to the argument that i'm giving to you yeah there is literally

00:49:22.380 no reason you could ever give me why i should think oh they get it yeah how how how could you

00:49:29.100 ever know that but i think you could still be led to say things that wouldn't make sense in the time

00:49:33.100 based off of your own judgment from god yeah through the argument though it's still going to be placed

00:49:38.220 in the argument right like where else is it where else you're going to put it you could divert and just

00:49:42.140 talk directly to them talk to their heart instead of just the words they're saying yeah you can make

00:49:46.140 emotional appeals that's true they don't last long yeah and they're very poor because you know what

00:49:51.260 happens somebody else makes a counter-emotional appeal yeah so i was arguing with a woman the

00:49:55.580 other night on twitter this woman was stupid right but she said her entire argument was but abortionists

00:50:03.820 have been able to convince me multiple times on the essay thing because it tugs on my heartstrings

00:50:09.820 this means that what she's actually saying is people have made great logical arguments to me

00:50:14.620 and i agree with them but once that emotional appeal is made i still want to lean towards it

00:50:20.780 right yeah so you have to get in that world view now i can't make great emotional appeals because i'm

00:50:25.740 not really an emotional guy right it's not my thing but i can great make great logical appeals

00:50:30.780 and i can make great logical arguments that's the best way i know how to interact yeah then maybe we

00:50:36.380 just disagree or we agree to disagree and we have different styles and how we would show someone the

00:50:41.740 truth and how we would try and counter them and point them to christ i i can't really kind of get

00:50:47.340 let you get away with this though because because of this yeah because you said and i'm gonna i'm

00:50:52.220 gonna try to quote me you said that the best way well i can't quote you i'm sorry i didn't write

00:50:59.900 it down i wrote something else down but the best way i want to make sure that i don't straw man this

00:51:03.900 position so i'll just ask you again if you're in an argument you with somebody else yeah and they

00:51:12.060 say to you i disagree with everything you're saying right now and you're completely wrong

00:51:17.660 how could i ever make the value judgment that they think anything other than that you can't i can't

00:51:25.740 short of the holy spirit's inspiration yeah well i mean i guess but even that would be very hard to

00:51:31.020 detect right even that would be like i think that that's an appeal that that you're making an appeal

00:51:37.420 that a standard appeal that you would never have towards anything else right be like in that case

00:51:43.340 the holy spirit should have filled you up andrew and it's like well what does that look like yeah

00:51:47.740 right it would look like being given the words to say boldness confidence but but i can easily make

00:51:54.540 all of those kind of right appeals right but i'm just not arrogant enough to think it's because the

00:52:00.780 holy spirit is necessarily directing me right like i'm just not going to be arrogant enough to state

00:52:07.260 god speaking through me right now i'm just not going to be arrogant enough to do that i mean you don't

00:52:11.740 have to say god is speaking through me directly yeah but i mean so when you when you make that appeal

00:52:16.460 it's just it's just to me it's just kind of a nonsense appeal right yes the holy spirit moves through

00:52:20.860 people i've seen it myself i know for sure that that happens right i have no idea how you would

00:52:27.180 place that in an argument though and say other than what's coming out of your mouth this is what

00:52:33.260 i hear this is what i see how else i make the value judgment at least in a way that's rational and

00:52:39.020 reasonable yeah in first corinthians i believe 14 it talks about a word of knowledge or a word of

00:52:43.740 wisdom a gift of discernment um and i think that might just be something that we see differently

00:52:48.140 of being able to see someone and see the words they're saying and see a different approach or

00:52:51.980 their heart posture behind it but that's like i said that's where i'm coming from in this okay

00:52:57.340 we can move that one on brian i don't know where else to go with it sure austin can you pull back up

00:53:01.740 the uh the notes all right so we addressed the please be respectful of the women uh second your

00:53:13.660 treatment of nicolette was inexcusable she is clearly broken that was the whole point of the

00:53:19.660 stream right show how logical and dumb she is this is something that well we'll let this living

00:53:25.580 underscord donated 100 dollars thank you question for the faggot from white knight during an apocalypse

00:53:31.660 uh nice thank you living you somehow got around the uh you got around the uh filter there but i

00:53:43.820 appreciate the message uh why don't we go ahead pull it back up did you uh want to uh please be

00:53:50.060 respectful of the women i want to make sure um i just want to make sure i get the right people here

00:53:55.580 right i talked to a lot of people was nicolette the one i said had a gunt i don't think so i don't

00:54:01.260 remember that was that was that the one that that was the one okay and i disavow the gut guns of

00:54:06.620 course i disavow the gun yeah comment but i wanted to make i think that that creates a reference for

00:54:12.460 the whatever audience they know what's being referenced yeah that's all okay yeah okay yeah

00:54:20.860 so anyway that it was that girl yeah the horrible troll i don't remember seeing i don't remember hearing

00:54:26.060 that word but sure oh maybe i should have just not even brought that up then yeah it's more ammo to

00:54:32.140 my side uh do you want to kim yeah yeah can you pull the criticism back up right um so uh the treatment

00:54:40.060 of nicolette was inexcusable she's clearly broken uh it's not clear so when you say so these are like

00:54:46.300 loaded terms you're using kind of loaded terms here when you say things like it's very clear x is true

00:54:52.300 yeah it's not clear x is true when you say it's obvious it's not obvious right i would take so i'm

00:54:59.180 going to take issue first with the idea of what is clear what is obvious yeah it is not always obvious

00:55:04.300 to me in fact it's almost never obvious to me uh what's going through a person's brain until they

00:55:10.780 verbalize everything that's going through their brain why they think the things they do people have

00:55:15.980 such a wide array of motivations some people could be on the troll for the or the show for the

00:55:20.780 purposes of trolling or derailment some people could be on the show for the purpose of pushing

00:55:24.700 their own agenda some may be here for just really good faith dialogue i like all of it right for me

00:55:30.940 all of it's fun the whole gambit if you're a troll on tuesday i like dealing i like dealing with that

00:55:35.740 sometimes i like dealing with the great faith combos and i like dealing with the heated arguments

00:55:40.540 i like the full kind of spectrum of that yeah but when you when you use loaded language like this

00:55:45.900 when you say it should be clear or x is is obvious that to me is again just framing you're just saying

00:55:51.900 you should have known better than x and so now's the time where you get to demonstrate now's the

00:55:57.820 time where i get to listen and you get to demonstrate how that was clear that treatment

00:56:03.100 of nicolette was inexcusable and how it was clear that she's clearly broken i would say it comes to the

00:56:09.100 point where the person has talked about the wounds earlier on the reasons why they were

00:56:13.180 bullied or harassed or they were made fun of and then you lead them to the point where they're

00:56:17.100 literally saying yeah i think i'm siding with the devil instead of god for doing only fans you

00:56:22.140 broke them to that point where they really that is not the same chick nicolette did not say that

00:56:27.580 nicolette said that no you guys you guys i what did sorry could you just repeat what she said i can

00:56:32.780 look it up you were questioning her because she had claimed to be a christian yeah yeah that was a

00:56:36.060 different chick though i'm pretty sure that that's not nicolette i don't think nicolette would honestly

00:56:41.660 like maybe i'm wrong but i don't think that nicolette would say if if you asked her what

00:56:48.940 would god prefer that you do this versus that i don't think that she would take the gambit on that

00:56:54.140 the one that i the one that i called what did she say we can look it up specifically you guys were

00:56:58.460 asking her i believe andrew was he was asking a very probing question if you guys were following

00:57:03.180 off like all right you believe in god why are you still doing only fans and it came to a head where

00:57:07.180 you say okay who do you think who do you think wants you to do only fans god or the devil and she said

00:57:11.260 yeah well probably the devil that was nicolette though or was that another girl in the panel i

00:57:16.620 think that that was the other girl i i think it was the girl who was sitting there i mean we're

00:57:22.860 gonna have to just shoot in the dark at this point no we got transcripts we can look the redheaded

00:57:27.820 woman who was dating no one next to her like the quiet girl i think she was kind of quiet you'll have

00:57:37.420 to give me a few moments to look this up but um i'm not sure yeah i'm not actually sure that that's

00:57:43.100 the right girl well so the one on that nicolette was just kind of like a trolling brat but i'm not

00:57:49.660 sure that she would so i mean on that panel the only two women who were involved with the only fans

00:57:54.540 were nicolette and then the redheaded woman who claimed she dated tristan tate it wasn't nicolette

00:58:00.380 it was most likely i think it was most likely nicolette really okay this was the satan god

00:58:08.460 question yeah i can look up the transcript i'm pretty sure you posed it to her though was it if

00:58:13.660 you want definitive i can look up the transcripts but i do think you might have posed it to her yeah

00:58:18.140 i don't i mean i don't remember but um but go ahead with the criticism the point being said i think we

00:58:23.820 both agree do you think it's a positive or a negative for a woman to be doing only fans

00:58:27.340 yeah okay negative right yeah do you think positive or negative large scale for our generation

00:58:34.780 yeah it's negative negative okay so she's clearly shown you you've gapped her logic and she's showing

00:58:39.580 the fact of where she's coming from with a place of hurt and i think it's that it's the last part

00:58:45.020 place hurt yeah that's do you think people go into only fans just being super confident and

00:58:49.260 self-secure and then they yeah okay yeah i think that people will i think

00:58:53.900 i have never ever endorsed nor bought into this kind of stupid idea that people themselves

00:59:04.380 are not capable themselves of evil or themselves of adjudicating what they think evil is for their

00:59:10.540 own personal motivations yeah while i think that the devil leads the world astray i have never taken

00:59:17.180 the responsibility off of the human being themselves for engaging in evil behavior yeah and so when you

00:59:23.580 say the idea of what's broken well that's not clear or there's past trauma well that's not clear

00:59:31.580 what's what the only thing that's clear is i've made the decision to do that what you're doing there

00:59:36.140 is creating an inference that actually removes the gap of responsibility by giving them something else

00:59:42.460 that they can point to other than them for this is why i do what i do yeah why do you think that

00:59:49.020 that's appropriate i i don't think i want to absolve them of responsibility i think responsibility is

00:59:53.260 actually the highest form of agency and that that is the one thing you do bring to the scandal of the

00:59:57.660 gospel and the fact that there's only one thing you bring to the cross and that's your own sin and the

01:00:01.180 person has to take responsibility for it and i think you were at a prime example of showing her the

01:00:06.220 gospel and showing her christ and instead that was not made and you instead that was not the point to

01:00:10.780 beat her over the head with the bible that was not the right way to do that you you just agreed that

01:00:14.940 you it's better for her not to be doing only fans yeah do you think there's a better way to remove

01:00:18.940 someone yeah but listen to from her view at that time right it wouldn't matter what woman you were

01:00:24.220 talking to at this point unless you can provide credible evidence of what this hurt or you know

01:00:30.060 thing that must have happened that led you to do x right i just don't have the same faith in in i

01:00:35.660 guess in these women that you do where you think that they're just kind of like born angelic or something

01:00:39.980 i don't know um they're not they have all sorts of their own motivations all sorts of reasons

01:00:44.780 they want to do things totally external yeah to the kind of motivations i think you think they all

01:00:50.140 have i just think it's good old-fashioned american greed they want money and this is a really easy

01:00:56.700 way to get it and they don't give a damn yeah couldn't that just be the simple explanation it

01:01:01.100 could be a simple so so if that is the case and let's assume she said it because i usually do make

01:01:06.300 them say it right i usually do get to the heart of the motivation yeah assuming for a second that she did

01:01:11.340 uh that's what i have to go on that would not have been the key place to insert gospel it would

01:01:17.820 have been the key place then to continue down the avenue logically of do you think it's okay to be

01:01:22.700 a selfish person and why yeah have you look at yourself in the mirror and go oh shit maybe being

01:01:28.220 a self-centered nihilistic piece of shit who does this horrible thing to myself and society isn't very

01:01:33.660 good that might be the good time to interject a different world view right but again that's also

01:01:40.700 kind of up to the person in the argument when to insert these things yeah not up to you the viewer

01:01:45.900 yeah you're absolutely right so how does this like i don't even understand where this criticism

01:01:49.820 just following down i saw instead slut shaming good what's wrong with that you've already shown that

01:01:57.020 they're broken and i i think you don't need to condemn them anymore no no no me showing you a thing

01:02:03.580 is different than you accepting the thing okay you saying you already showed her this gap in the

01:02:11.580 logic you get to have this great primo seat the whole audience right now right all of you looking

01:02:18.380 at the camera all that whole audience gets this primo front row seat right they're sitting down on

01:02:24.860 the couch they've got their popcorn right or whatever they're eating right i hope you guys are you know

01:02:30.140 having something delicious right now they're having a beer they're enjoying themselves they

01:02:33.980 have the primo front row seat where they can be like okay from the bird's eye view here's what i

01:02:38.380 think is going on yeah you the person who is the interlocutor the engager right you have a different

01:02:45.900 perspective than the external viewer you would agree that that's true right yeah so from the perspective of

01:02:51.580 the internal viewer the idea here is no you're not actually taking responsibility no you're still

01:02:58.940 fighting against this yes you may have accepted that what i've said is true right but you have not

01:03:04.460 admitted yet that it is true so you know kind of the placement of where you're going to insert ideology

01:03:12.380 too that's a much harder thing to gauge right yeah much harder thing to gauge yeah i i agree i think

01:03:20.780 where you go with the ideology and where ultimately you do present the gospel it depends on the person

01:03:24.860 it depends on the situation it has to but i would say i don't think slut shaming has any part of a

01:03:29.020 gospel presentation why not what's wrong with slut shaming jesus says that we will be held accountable

01:03:35.420 to every word that we speak and that by our words will be justified and by our words will be condemned and

01:03:40.220 and as he says with the plank in your eye you'll be judged by the same standard for which you judge

01:03:44.060 others so that means that i should be willing to accept being slut shamed yes i think shame is

01:03:51.820 where i draw the line why that's not wait a second now you're conflating two different ideas

01:03:58.460 do you agree that the standard from which you judge is a standard for which you will be judged according

01:04:03.340 to matthew yeah okay you agree with this yes okay so am i judging by a hand standard that i

01:04:10.140 am refusing myself to be judged by you're judging a hand am i judging by a standard that i refuse to

01:04:17.740 be judged by i'm gonna have to think about that one for a second no no okay ready to move on when you

01:04:32.780 are oh i thought the whole is slut shaming wrong conversation you you guys want to keep going

01:04:38.940 he just agreed with me it's not it was an entailment of his logic oh okay all right austin are you able

01:04:44.060 to pull back up the uh let's see so you also wrote uh and when she admitted to her past of bullying you

01:04:51.020 instead double down on the slut shaming she only played along because that is how wounded girls receive

01:04:55.660 validation i think that's already been addressed no that's that nope we got it nope we got to get okay

01:05:01.260 got to get into this okay so i i want you to see what you can you can you read out what you wrote

01:05:07.500 out loud there for me if you don't mind oh which part oh uh so uh right there with and so this is

01:05:17.020 going to be uh paragraph four down yeah and when she admitted of her past bullying and harassment you

01:05:21.260 said double down on the slut shaming she only played along because that is how wounded girls receive

01:05:25.100 validation yeah so um i not only do i reject categorically the entirety of that statement

01:05:31.740 but i would again ask for the demonstration uh that that is what women do pull it up again i want

01:05:39.180 to make sure i get the words right uh she only played along because that is how wounded girls receive

01:05:44.220 validation can you demonstrate that for me in a million years ever how would you ever demonstrate

01:05:48.380 that it's a heart posture right people seeking validation so you just think it sure i would say

01:05:54.780 say it's a conviction i have and i've talked to people that have but why should i believe it

01:05:58.540 because i've talked to people in relational currency they've talked back to me and admitted

01:06:02.220 in the past they when they were the most broken we're looking for the most validation

01:06:05.500 in the most cheap lustful usually online ways yeah you ever heard of a guy named ed schultz

01:06:12.140 no yeah probably not way before your time he was this big fat democrat right just a real piece

01:06:16.700 of yeah he came to the democrat party because he was a republican and he had an epiphany while

01:06:23.340 he was eating a baloney sandwich that republicans were evil i'm not kidding you can look this up he

01:06:28.780 had an epiphany for some reason this baloney sandwich gave him the epiphany that he needed

01:06:34.860 to switch over to become a scumbag democrat and go on by the way to do horrible things okay um

01:06:42.220 the idea what do you think that he was wounded was no why but why are the women then why are the women

01:06:49.100 always wounded or have some trauma that we have to base their decisions on i don't i don't understand

01:06:55.580 this view this view really bothers me because this is actually i think in this way i have way more

01:07:02.780 respect for women uh than gentlemen like you do because i do not infantilize i'm not trying to

01:07:08.860 infantilize but how is that not infantilization to make the statement that the reason you're doing what

01:07:13.820 you're doing is because you're broken rather than maybe they're not broken they made this choice

01:07:18.140 actively and they like it what about that i would say my approach comes from a place of compassion

01:07:23.340 knowing the person is not yielding the fulfillment that they wish to from that and that there is a

01:07:27.900 greater way that comes through christ and i think approaching people knowing that they are searching

01:07:33.180 and that no one's completely content and fulfilled in their sin from my perspective like i said i see that

01:07:38.380 in scripture i see that god commands everywhere to repent he says that

01:07:41.740 no andrew it all goes back to childhood trauma hasn't desiree taught you anything you need to

01:07:50.060 revisit the bad bitch handbook sorry i'm sorry giovanni i'm sorry my bad that came in automatically

01:07:57.660 do you want to luke if you want to just continue i was just finishing the point that says scripture

01:08:02.060 is clear first timothy 2 4 i think it talks about that it's god's desire that all men are saved and i

01:08:06.700 think it is our responsibility as christians i agree to echo that and call others to repentance and also

01:08:11.180 realize too that people choose sin for a reason if yes obviously it is enticing but they also choose

01:08:16.300 it for negative reasons and i think that all of those negative reasons and all those desires that

01:08:20.300 are unfulfilled that if eternity has been written on our human hearts and we are searching for life and

01:08:24.620 life abundantly i think instead of just dragging them to go go ahead you're thinking no i'm listening oh

01:08:29.980 yeah if they're searching for life and life abundantly i think they can find that increased and i think more

01:08:34.300 importantly too realizing that meeting the center with the place of compassion especially when

01:08:38.380 they've recognized that their sin is ultimately wrong and they don't want to be attached to it

01:08:42.380 anymore but you also have to keep in mind that like for myself included i used to be addicted to

01:08:46.060 pornography for a lot of my early childhood is that what is that is that like the porn stash is that

01:08:51.340 where that comes from is that my friends like it you got the porn stash going bro i'm just saying

01:08:56.140 appreciate it okay anyway go ahead so used to be addicted to it for a super long period of time

01:09:00.700 and a lot of other things body dysmorphia eating disorders it's all part of my testimony and until

01:09:04.940 i actually read the word of god none of that actually changed and the word of god i started

01:09:08.860 to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart right and i knew i knew that my sin was bad

01:09:13.100 but i couldn't actually walk away from it because i lacked the power to and once i found that in christ

01:09:17.180 i realized okay i actually do dislike my sin and i want to walk away from it so i come from a place

01:09:22.220 of compassion when i see other people that are also bound in sexual sin and i say listen i want to

01:09:26.620 come with compassion in the same way that i felt in the past as well too there is a greater way that

01:09:31.180 you can be let out and i mean into the audience too there is hope there is a way to get out of

01:09:35.740 pornography and that way is jesus christ so let me give you the olive branch of some agreement okay and

01:09:40.780 then i'm going to give you some criticism with the agreement yeah so the first idea is i am very glad

01:09:47.900 that you got away from all of that and i'm very glad that you found christ right though i may not agree

01:09:53.100 with your theology it's still far better for you to be going down this path which will eventually

01:09:58.860 by the way lead you to orthodoxy um it's far better for you to be going down this path than

01:10:02.940 down some other path so we'll just concede that see i think that that's the compassionate statement

01:10:08.940 the thing is though is that i need you to also admit that based on your what you call your testimony

01:10:14.300 that you could be operating from something which is called affirmation bias and this is the idea that

01:10:19.340 because this was your walk and because you had other externalities which were influencing your

01:10:25.580 behavior that then you kind of suppose that onto other onto other people yeah isn't that a really

01:10:32.940 reasonable thing for me to think yeah yeah no it absolutely is i've talked with a lot of young men

01:10:38.060 um and even women too that are bound up in sexual sin sure i've talked to them all and it all does come

01:10:43.020 from a place of listen i know you know like what paul says in romans like i know i shouldn't do this but

01:10:46.940 i still find myself doing it and i lack the power to be free then he goes on to say thank our lord

01:10:51.340 jesus christ who has set us free and so when i come across with the message of compassion i see that

01:10:56.060 not only in christ who you know wept over jerusalem because they couldn't repent and he you know he used

01:11:01.340 largely tax collectors sure prostitutes but but isn't compassion the idea of compassion me telling you

01:11:07.500 what's true even if you don't like it yeah and it isn't that really what i'm doing just telling you

01:11:12.540 kind of like you probably didn't want to hear that you could be suffering from affirmation bias

01:11:17.660 yeah but your logical brain went no that's true there's a good possibility here that that's true

01:11:22.460 right yeah what's what's non-compassionate about saying that to you no i mean i think i i value that

01:11:30.620 insight that you're saying i might be coming from an affirmation bias i've just seen so far what i've

01:11:35.100 run on when i talk to people when i talk about sexual sin is that you do a place of compassion

01:11:39.660 obviously responsibility and you hold them accountable for their actions yeah but at the

01:11:42.540 same time compassion as well too knowing that they have usually been like i said bought a bill of

01:11:47.660 goods but the trick to affirmation bias is that all the contact that you have with people within the

01:11:54.060 frame of the world view yeah is going to be moved to leading some type of evidence towards your

01:12:00.140 affirmation by said so in other words this becomes part of the world view that you view everything in

01:12:05.740 you turn everything into part of that world view to support the affirmation bias right like that's

01:12:12.300 that's what what happens that's what that means yeah so while you say okay anecdotally though andrew

01:12:18.380 most of the people that i've engaged with who are engaged in sexual sin whatever that sample size is

01:12:22.940 right let's say it's huge let's say it's like 20 000 people it's probably not right but but let's just

01:12:27.740 say that it was yeah if you then said and in my experience is that all of them x and it just so

01:12:34.860 happens to correlate with this other thing which happened to me doesn't that kind of seem a bit

01:12:40.460 biased and moving towards that considering how widely different people are yeah yeah it just sounds

01:12:45.820 like affirmation okay it's affirmation bias do you think there are people that are bound up in sexual

01:12:49.900 sin that don't regret it at all yeah okay yeah yeah i would i would i really do i think i think that

01:12:56.780 that the the the idea here of a pre-last sincere hypocrite donated 100

01:13:04.540 desiree flashes her nasty booty in andrew's face and risked harming the stream yet this feminist is

01:13:10.540 constantly acting like men must be responsible for these women's action yeah but what a clown hang

01:13:16.380 on this is good though because he's he is listening right so i'm gonna listen to him and he's listening to

01:13:22.460 me so um so back to this the this idea of pre-last which i believe is a real thing define the term

01:13:33.900 yeah that's what i'm doing right so what pre-last is is that somebody has submitted so much to the

01:13:39.420 demonic okay right um that no they don't they don't have these kinds of same sincere regrets things like

01:13:46.860 these types of people that you may be a serial killer let's look at that for instance right you've

01:13:52.220 given over so much then now that doesn't mean that you can't be saved but you've become so

01:13:57.340 rotten to your core that you reject even the idea of salvation yeah okay and i think it's absurd to

01:14:05.580 think that those people not only don't exist but that we don't deal with them all the time we just

01:14:09.980 kind of pretend there's this kind of crux where no it's it's external factors it's always something

01:14:16.060 else and it's such kind of like female psycho analysis babble when they always are people

01:14:21.900 are always trying to find a an externality instead of just going you know people have the capacity in

01:14:27.820 free will to make choices and sometimes they might make the wrong choice for the wrong reason and know

01:14:35.260 it and just not give a shit would you say that you have an evidence to prove that people love it and

01:14:42.140 they genuinely don't have any regrets all we can do is go off of what they say what else can you what

01:14:47.500 like what else can you do other than the term you used for the reprobate can you what was that term

01:14:51.900 again what the reprobate mind pre-lest pre-lest okay is that not in scripture i'm assuming is it

01:14:57.340 somewhere else it's part of the orthodox teaching yes everything is backed in in in scripture is the word

01:15:02.940 bible in scripture no it means collection okay yeah so no the word bible is not because so the

01:15:07.260 idea the idea is that you can use words which are not bound in scripture but that scripture

01:15:11.900 reinforces i mostly mean the idea being taught how about the word trinity is that in scripture

01:15:16.140 father son and holy ghost yeah i'm sorry i asked you is the word trinity it's a human term that yeah it's

01:15:21.020 a human to write so the thing is is like me giving you the idea for what the thing is when i say in

01:15:25.580 scripture i'm sorry sorry finish your sentence i don't want to interrupt yeah so me giving you the idea for

01:15:29.580 what the thing is the word itself does not need to appear in the bible jesus christ himself said

01:15:34.460 his wisdom would fill the enormity of all libraries right and of course it would yeah

01:15:40.060 you cannot you have to extrapolate all principles past just the bible that's why you're given those

01:15:45.980 principles yeah i when i say in scripture i mostly i'm sorry if i communicated just the word

01:15:51.180 i mean the idea where it's saying listen yes the idea of pre-lest is all over scripture you can read

01:15:55.660 it in matthew you can read it in luke you can read it in john yeah i i want to read more on this could

01:15:59.900 you have the references yeah i'll send you all the references perfect yep thank you yep on pre-lest and

01:16:04.380 you'll see it you'll see the theme all through there yes of course there are going to be people

01:16:09.260 uh who choose these things what do you think free will is well like what if you did if you don't have

01:16:15.180 free will right how could you choose to do the evil path you wouldn't yeah otherwise this would be

01:16:21.820 predetermination which is a calvinist belief right it's it's not even possible for you to reconcile

01:16:26.940 that there couldn't be people who freely choose to do evil because they just like it yeah like i

01:16:33.740 don't know how you logically get around that if you really think you have free will i think there's

01:16:38.780 people can be double-minded i think they can like something and also regret it at the same time and i

01:16:42.060 would rather appeal to the side of them having a conviction but that's not based in logic or reason

01:16:47.100 okay you're you're just saying you're just saying this you're saying i have no evidence of this

01:16:52.140 right no real evidence of this but i do know other than personal anecdote yeah yeah other than personal

01:16:56.380 but i do know free will exists yeah but for some reason i'm choosing to believe that nobody's free

01:17:01.820 will would ever lead them to go down the path of doing horrors because they just want to

01:17:08.460 like that's not free will then that would be something else that's other than right there's the

01:17:13.340 two members and romans i think it's still yeah roman seven that work within you and they pull

01:17:17.820 you either way and i know myself too i have to struggle with two wills of you know what i know

01:17:22.060 i should do and what i don't want to do sure but is it going to be true of everyone that even if they

01:17:27.340 have a pulling force let's say left and right in this case just like simplify it yeah that some people

01:17:32.700 may not even acknowledge either don't care and just do what they want yeah and they have the willpower

01:17:37.340 to do that they are given that great gift of free will right yeah so i just don't know a way around that

01:17:42.300 logically i would just say when i approach someone i see those two wills the left and the right and i

01:17:47.020 would always want to pull on the right versus shaming them for the actions that they take when

01:17:50.460 they what if okay but what if you had a crystal ball okay and inside this crystal ball it said okay if you

01:17:55.340 shame this person right they will move to that tug right yeah would you shame them then i don't like

01:18:01.340 the word shame yeah i know but you didn't answer the question would i shame them no i probably wouldn't

01:18:06.540 even if you knew that the result would be what if it was the only way like that's the only way they

01:18:11.180 would respond to the message of christ was to to make them experience shame and do it on purpose if

01:18:17.900 you had a crystal ball it was clairvoyant you knew for sure that was the only would you do it then

01:18:23.340 titus 3 2 says to speak evil of no man um so personally a conviction i have is not to do that

01:18:29.260 these are subjective yes but you're setting me up with a false dilemma where no i'm setting you up with

01:18:34.220 a hypothetical there's no dilemma here right that's false it's hypothetical it's designed to be false to

01:18:39.260 test the logic yeah so the idea here is would you if you clairvoyantly could look ahead and see that

01:18:49.500 only shame could be applied to bring the x person to christ would you do it no no from personal

01:18:55.660 conviction yeah so okay so then um backing up right if that is not the case would you shame somebody else

01:19:05.020 who would shame somebody if it brought them to christ i don't think i would shame them then what

01:19:09.660 would you say i would try and correct them okay so if you're unwilling to use shame as a resource

01:19:16.060 right and another person is but you're unwilling to shame the fact that they shame people why should

01:19:21.340 they even respond to anything you say to them why shouldn't they just be like well this is really

01:19:25.020 effective you're not gonna you're not gonna say anything about it right how effective is that i don't

01:19:30.620 believe that the holy spirit works to shame i think it does all the time i think he works to convict

01:19:37.180 but i don't think he works to condemn i think it works to shame constantly look like what is hell to

01:19:42.140 you i mean do you want the literal answer yeah the literal answer what is hell to you it's the

01:19:47.980 eternal torment the the eternal torment yeah you can experience shame probably does god allow this to

01:19:53.340 happen yeah okay well so i don't understand inside inside a biblical text itself shame happens all the

01:20:01.420 time the money changers were experiencing shame in the temple that's what that was a courted whip

01:20:06.780 you're being shamed out of here shame even the woman at the well the idea there was shaming her

01:20:13.100 yeah like how do you how do you get around that i think shaming is part of your identity i think when

01:20:17.820 you communicate with someone i think you don't want to default to the fact that your identity is wrapped up in

01:20:21.820 your sin i think you want to communicate the fact that their sin is pulling them towards that place

01:20:25.980 of eternal torment yeah i don't but but i don't disagree yeah that that is is um is true what i'm

01:20:33.340 disagreeing with is the pathway of getting there clearly shame is a highly effective tool yeah right

01:20:41.260 even your friends going hey you packed on too much weight that's a shaming tactic to get you to stop

01:20:46.460 eating you said you had an eating disorder right were you ashamed of it yeah i'd say so it wasn't

01:20:51.420 wasn't that a powerful motivator it was a powerful motivator then what is i don't understand the

01:20:55.180 problem here bro i think it's externally projecting shame onto other people saying you should be shamed

01:20:59.500 for your actions but somebody externally projected shame onto you and that was a powerful motivator for

01:21:04.220 you not for the eating disorder what nobody gave you any shame for the eating disorder people did but

01:21:11.740 i ultimately i actually the more shame that they gave me the worse it got oh i see so uh in this case

01:21:17.900 again we're not dealing with affirmation bias because in your particular case when you felt

01:21:23.420 shamed you wouldn't you refused to uh you know do anything about the behavior you double down which

01:21:29.180 source of pride right but you do realize that other people respond very well to shame many many times

01:21:35.020 they they uh they respond well to shame like even in your own life for instance um with a kid

01:21:40.220 right do you think would you ever spank a child spank a child sure yeah it says in proverbs

01:21:45.260 would you ever do it in public probably not why not because i think discipline is something that's

01:21:52.780 you know domestic should be done inside the home why it doesn't say anything about that in proverbs

01:21:56.780 that's it's just what i think yeah right it's just what you yeah is it okay for someone else to

01:22:02.220 spank your kid in public it's probably their own personal conviction you don't you don't care i think

01:22:06.220 it depends on the society and where you are is there a little bit of shame do you think the kid feels a

01:22:10.460 lot of shame when you take him over the knee and you swat his ass in front of everybody is there a

01:22:15.500 little shame involved there yeah probably yeah probably yeah and does it and is bible specifically

01:22:20.220 saying in proverbs spare the rod spoil the child right yeah it's literally giving you the antidote

01:22:27.660 here saying now do you think that spanking the kid or the bible is saying to abuse the child

01:22:32.860 i don't think he's saying to abuse is it saying to beat the child no is he even saying really to hurt

01:22:37.420 the child no so then what is the effectiveness of the of the spanking the effectiveness of the

01:22:41.820 spanking is discipline it's the shame i don't think it's it's the shame dude how could it not be

01:22:47.340 if you i've seen kids for instance their mother has spanked them and the spanking doesn't even hurt

01:22:52.380 them their mom's hands are so weak when they paddle their ass right it doesn't do anything to them they

01:22:58.220 cry anyway why because it hurts and they're because they feel ashamed no discipline for the present time

01:23:04.460 is pleasing they feel ashamed that their mama spanked their ass they they're they're ashamed

01:23:11.900 right that's why they're crying even though they're not in any physical pain yeah how can you say that

01:23:16.300 this is a bad prescription when it's a biblical prescription i think i think a good parent would

01:23:19.900 be able to communicate the fact that i still love you i'm doing this for your own good i'm not trying

01:23:24.380 to it's not going to lessen the shame okay how would that lessen the shame oh i love you you had it

01:23:30.380 coming because you fucked up you did a b and c you weren't supposed to do that right yeah the shame

01:23:36.300 is what's making them cry right the shame is what makes them want to adjust paths we're awfully in

01:23:41.420 the weeds here i don't think we're off in the weeds here i think that we are doubling we're coming down

01:23:46.060 to your idea of what shame is you say it's never it's never okay to correct via shame and i'm giving

01:23:51.100 you a direct example that you believe in as a correction which causes shame i think verbally versus

01:23:58.620 physically i think they're interpreting it as shame but i think you could commute what is shame

01:24:03.020 other than interpretation you could communicate verbally that you're not trying to shame the

01:24:06.940 person while still applying to so what it's still if you verb okay so wait a second so if you walk

01:24:12.140 over to a woman who's really heavyset you say hey you bitch right yeah i'm not trying to verbally shame

01:24:17.420 you but you just did well okay right so then if that is the case how would that not be the case

01:24:24.060 with spanking whether you say oh i wasn't trying to shame you right it's a punishment yeah i wasn't

01:24:29.580 trying to shame you but i'm shaming you that's i mean that's why you're crying right you're crying

01:24:33.900 because you're ashamed of what it is that you did you're ashamed that i had to spank you you're

01:24:38.220 ashamed of all this right isn't that why kids are crying when they're not feeling physical pain

01:24:43.420 from the actual spanking but they're feeling shame that their mama had to spank them sure so i mean

01:24:49.340 i'll concede your point on spanking but then that's a prescription for shame you're prescribing

01:24:55.020 shame not verbally yeah i don't know man i don't know what the distinct so like physical shame is

01:24:59.900 okay but not verbal shame isn't that a contradiction in terms could be i'll just say from my personal

01:25:06.220 experience and where i've been and the convictions that i've been led to i don't see it's ever fruitful

01:25:11.020 to shame someone for their actions um i think paul you know he definitely people cried right okay

01:25:15.900 godly sorrow that leads to repentance i think that it's important to speak the truth but it's

01:25:19.820 always important knowledge uh first corinthians 8 says knowledge puffs up but love edifies i think

01:25:25.100 you always do want to communicate discipline in love calling someone to a higher standard versus i

01:25:29.260 think the enemy does a great job when people have issues and things that they already feel ashamed for

01:25:33.180 and they don't want to bring it to light when you then project oh your identity is this and your

01:25:37.500 identity is that i'm just going to continue to double down and slut shame you for your actions in the

01:25:41.740 past and things that you actually do regret i which i still do believe i do believe people have some

01:25:46.460 inkling of conscience that convicts them i personally in my wheelhouse do not want to use shame as a

01:25:53.260 motivator okay then let me ask you let me ask you one more follow-up here okay so uh this reminds

01:25:59.660 me of an anecdote i'd like you to speak to okay so um when i was a kid uh i was inside of a little

01:26:06.220 like mini mart with my dad i was maybe five or six years old he stole a candy bar okay snuck it put

01:26:12.300 it in my pocket yeah now i was stupid right when i got out in the vehicle i just like pulled the candy

01:26:17.100 bar out and started eating it right in front of my dad yeah right and he was like uh where'd you get

01:26:21.020 that and i was like oh well you know the guy the guy gave it to me when you weren't looking right he

01:26:27.340 gave it to me when you weren't looking yeah now i gotta ask you are children more vulnerable than adult

01:26:32.700 women sure yeah and are adult men less vulnerable than children yeah okay great my dad marched my ass

01:26:43.580 in that convenience store he paid for the candy bar right and he gave me the worst verbal lashing

01:26:50.300 you could ever imagine yeah right i was in tears i was apologizing to the clerk right he just tore into

01:26:58.700 me got back got in the car and i said dad i feel terrible and he said good now you know what i never

01:27:04.940 did again guess stole never yeah how was that not 100 the walk of shame he walked me in he shamed my

01:27:15.260 ass in front of that clerk he shamed me uh made me take the walk of shame back out then he got home

01:27:20.780 told my mom right she went in on me right this was like it was just a pile on andrew wilson jamboree

01:27:28.380 okay i'm sure i don't even remember but i'm sure even my brother probably went by and was like and

01:27:34.220 that's what you get i never stole another thing in my life yeah right how is that not totally effective

01:27:40.620 and totally what proverbs is really trying to get across here well i argue that it might be effective

01:27:47.260 and it might have worked for your personal anecdote um i think per when it comes to discipline when it

01:27:51.900 comes to correction i think shame based on the opinions of others and their opinion of you

01:27:56.620 ultimately does take away from finding your identity and opinion of yourself in christ i think

01:28:02.100 understanding that you when you are born again you are the you do have the righteousness of christ

01:28:06.260 and i think shame is an attack from the enemy to make you think that your actions are what your

01:28:10.280 identity is based out of you couldn't say that shame itself was evil itself that's never stated

01:28:16.200 anywhere in gospel no that's one and two uh you i've given you now multiple examples where shame

01:28:22.300 can be used from the place of pure love in order to get you to stop a horrific behavior you would

01:28:27.900 not ordinarily do um when you're five six years old you can't understand conceptualizations of ownership

01:28:35.220 yet yeah what conceptualization can you understand shame punishment punishment shame you can definitely

01:28:42.080 understand shame people don't like when i do this right everybody really doesn't like when i do this

01:28:48.100 thing that is that is social shaming that's the same thing with the brothel right if you had a brothel

01:28:53.840 in town and everybody came in the town to say this is awful and you need to stop doing it yeah that's a

01:29:00.320 form of social shame how's that not effective or exactly in kind of the line of what it is that you're

01:29:07.040 talking about through salvation do you think christ shamed any of the prostitutes or adulterous women that

01:29:11.940 came to him it's saying go and sin no more yeah is a form of shame it's saying the things you were

01:29:17.660 doing before were sinful you must not do them that is part of the shame of that it's the same thing

01:29:22.780 when paul had his vision paul was shamed in that vision for killing christians he was wasn't he he

01:29:28.880 was exposed to the truth yeah and and he felt great what shame yeah all right i'll leave it there

01:29:35.580 all right we'll get through some more of the notes austin if you can pull back up the rest

01:29:42.620 so andrew you call yourself a christian act like it how did christ address the adulterous woman how did

01:29:51.220 he address the woman who wiped his feet how did he address the samaritan woman how did the lord

01:29:55.700 command hosea to pursue his bride despite her past so andrew you call yourself a christian

01:30:01.640 act like it do you want to respond yeah i think as we've gotten through this conversation we've actually

01:30:06.480 addressed a lot of this which is interesting right yeah um but i don't think that he's saying

01:30:11.740 i'm not a christian no he's saying that he wants me to act in such a way which confers with what he

01:30:17.020 believes to be the image of christ to be yeah to be to be christianity i want the same thing in

01:30:22.200 reverse and since i've given you these kind of great logical arguments then you've refuted none of

01:30:28.100 them and you've demonstrated none of your worldview like none of it right and i've been willing to hear

01:30:33.080 it out have these arguments and these engagements you should maybe set the pride aside

01:30:38.660 right and come and conform more over to this side right where i'm trying to explain to you wait a

01:30:44.360 second i'm not disputing that christ is pure love yeah there is no dispute there my dispute is in

01:30:50.500 terms when you say things like shame you have a loaded version of this when you say things compassion

01:30:56.000 you have a loaded version of this which doesn't i think take into account the entirety of what these

01:31:01.880 words are trying to encapsulate christ himself engaged in shame telling people they're in sin

01:31:08.180 is shame that is shaming i don't see a way around that i really don't that's fair like i said it comes

01:31:16.400 from different ways of reading um i would say you were talking about pure love um the definition of

01:31:20.740 love and first corinthians 13 talk about believing all things bearing all things hoping all things i i read

01:31:25.960 that as genuinely seeing other people and believing that believing in them and hoping in them for what

01:31:30.080 they can become in christ do you think i want to hurt these people who are here or do you think

01:31:35.580 that i'm here to engage now i do find it fun right that's my vanity okay okay there's nothing i can do

01:31:41.920 about that yeah i think it's a blast yeah okay is that always good for me probably not okay but i do

01:31:48.720 have a lot of fun arguing i do have a lot of fun debating right can that lead to other things which

01:31:53.720 are sinful of course it can playing the guitar too much could lead to sin literally not kidding i haven't

01:31:58.940 had that happen yet but yeah it could okay eating too much could what you know there's all sorts of

01:32:03.000 different things that could but you can't honestly believe that my intention here and arguing and

01:32:07.940 tangling with these people who do these horrible things and there's almost nobody representing the

01:32:12.400 worldview that you have except maybe just some guy who lives on a farm somewhere who's really good at

01:32:17.820 arguing right you can't possibly think i'm after trying to like hurt in any way these i've never gone

01:32:23.860 after any of these personal uh i've never even uh talked about them kind of post show i don't even

01:32:30.800 do kind of reacts to my own con i don't do any of that yeah right the idea is in the moment you

01:32:36.440 tangle with the idea you beat the idea and you hope right that in this like session of a few hours you

01:32:43.940 can get your worldview across it's like the best you can do yeah so you know that's like that would be

01:32:50.420 my one rebuttal there yeah i i agree i think that obviously it sounds like we read the character of

01:32:56.640 christ differently um based off of the loaded terms and the approach that we've had and the background

01:33:01.040 and our personal anecdotes um but yeah like i said i i think it all largely comes back to when you're

01:33:06.160 talking with someone genuinely believing in them and having hope that they will accept christ and they

01:33:11.100 will turn um and i like i said it's just the tools in the arsenal of how you would go about doing

01:33:15.480 that and breaking down their worldview um you know afflicting the comfortable and comfortable uh

01:33:20.140 comforting the afflicted um well okay that's fair so you say we have some distinctions in christology

01:33:25.880 i think that that's fair and look i'm not um i'm i'm a layman right i'm not here to like i'm not here

01:33:32.640 to pretend that i'm clergy or have all the answers here right i'm just kind of giving you the broad

01:33:37.320 worldview that i have i'm still a padawan right i'm still a padawan learner but i would like you to

01:33:43.540 retract some of these statements because you have not been able to demonstrate the statements so i

01:33:48.620 mean kind of going in order and ones that yeah yeah i'll go in order here uh the first is on this

01:33:54.620 kind of loaded idea that brian is giving drugs to the women right and you said um you know substances

01:34:01.300 and this kind of um this kind of language this vague language is veiled to say there's some kind of

01:34:07.280 nefarious purpose right that's what we say we say substance abuse things like that yeah it's

01:34:13.380 clearly cloaked in a criticism of you're giving them some kind of nefarious thing to drug them up

01:34:18.880 yeah and i wonder if you could retract and just briefly clarify that i will i will i'll briefly

01:34:23.860 reclarify my my statement okay i sent over text uh very late at night so the point i will retract is

01:34:31.740 that i think i misread your guys intentions with both due to lack of sleep and obviously knowing

01:34:38.460 someone that was on the podcast that wanted to leave and so i apologize for insinuating that you

01:34:44.360 guys had a malicious intent and offering substances to keep people on your platform okay well i believe

01:34:48.820 that it could be read that way when the platform does go later than insinuated uh for you know financial

01:34:56.180 gain but um yeah i'll retract the statement now in many of these you're going to get a lot of

01:35:02.080 charitability back for me yeah not on this one okay and here's why right because it it infers almost

01:35:09.280 like um in the modern feminist gynocentric world that we live in it almost infers that brian is like

01:35:16.800 drugging these women for the purposes of just getting like entertainment out of them for a bunch

01:35:23.140 of events you know what i mean that's where the criticism leads so i'm not really going to be

01:35:27.500 charitable back on this one you were just wrong on this one and you need to just eat that

01:35:31.820 uh the second one if you can pull that list up real quick brian

01:35:35.960 um scroll up i think yeah yeah uh so uh when it when it gets into the you don't know what paperwork

01:35:47.300 she signed keeping her until midnight despite multiple requests was incredible disrespectful

01:35:51.140 okay so from this one i can see from the external view that you go past time someone's trying to

01:35:57.840 convince you to say you could you could assume that that's disrespectful however with

01:36:01.740 context i wonder if you would be willing to retract that statement as well as you agreed it takes two

01:36:07.800 to tango they willingly came on the show and you had evidence that brian did tell them that it may go

01:36:13.700 past that and so that really isn't a fair criticism ultimately i don't think i have enough information to

01:36:18.880 fully retract um mostly because of the comment of just yeah that not i don't did you guys communicate

01:36:23.880 to them when they were be able to leave and well no it's open-ended right it could go from a to b to z

01:36:28.620 that but that's every podcast by the way that's basically if it's irl yeah if it's like a show

01:36:34.080 if you're if you're on cnn right you get nine minutes and that's all you're gonna get yeah okay

01:36:39.400 because that's the format an irl podcast though which goes anywhere from four to six to eight hours

01:36:45.360 there's no real good reasonable expectation i think a person would have that if we go past time

01:36:50.400 um there was some like kind of nefarious purpose behind that it's kind of silly right

01:36:55.580 yeah it might be still in my part and i do apologize obviously you okay are correct in

01:37:00.040 calling out i probably have a lot of pride baked into this and i apologize i'm sorry if i did come

01:37:04.140 across in a way that was judgmental okay genuine i do want to learn and i want to i think it's okay

01:37:08.420 to assess judgment like that's it's okay to judge things otherwise how do you get through life right

01:37:13.260 like you have to make at least value judgments right so this value judgment i can at least charitably

01:37:18.820 say i understand why you made it yeah but perhaps now with more context we can just get like kind of a

01:37:24.700 basic retraction there uh and then can you pull the list up one more time maybe a good clip

01:37:28.800 um second your treatment of nicolette was inexcusable she's clearly broken so on this one

01:37:36.020 again going to be very charitable back i understand the worldview that there must be some kind of like

01:37:41.540 trauma or externality especially considering your history and how you came to christianity and all of

01:37:47.060 this so i'm going to take like all those things into consideration and say i understand how you came to that

01:37:52.220 view yeah right but can you concede that from from my purview from my view no there's really no good

01:37:59.600 evidence that a lot of these women are broken and rather they're just making the choice to do this

01:38:05.620 thing because they really want to do it because there's a lot of money right they make a lot of

01:38:09.640 money i'll concede that yeah from your worldview that you've explained to me i think it makes sense

01:38:13.300 the behavior that you do to go about your way of uh tearing down their worldview and yeah communicating

01:38:17.860 with them yeah okay and then last one brian if you don't mind um you go down uh third and we didn't

01:38:25.860 even get to this criticism yeah there's still some more to get yeah yeah i'd like to i'd like to address

01:38:29.960 this one um one just one dane underscore snider donated one hundred dollars thank you dan appreciate

01:38:36.480 paul said he'd go to hell if his brothers would be saved this guy doesn't know god or what's at stake

01:38:42.500 because he won't use shame to save the lost repent this is why the american church is so weak but we're

01:38:49.620 still going to try to be charitable with it right i i agree i actually agree with what dane's saying

01:38:53.900 here but in the in the spirit of being charitable i at least now understand why you came to your view

01:39:00.540 how you came to your view and so i have some respect there okay so that i mean that's i i can still

01:39:06.780 disagree with the view yeah but have respect for how you came to the view um but this this this one

01:39:12.620 the third one we didn't get do you agree with the statement that i don't know god no okay no well

01:39:17.320 here's the thing right um my my parents are protestants right and i remember asking a priest

01:39:24.520 you know like i came to this through protestantism and he's like yeah it's all of american orthodoxy

01:39:31.960 basically came to this through through protestantism i would never in no orthodox by the way will ever

01:39:37.860 make a salvific claim or say that you don't know god yeah that would never be a claim that we would

01:39:44.120 make we would claim that you don't know the fullness of the truth that's what we would say

01:39:48.180 but anyway back to this um the third one here i'm sorry third carly holds her person con

01:39:57.300 personal convictions yeah personal convictions regarding bowing to her husband yeah that's a

01:40:02.920 good one because the lord's guidance in her past you are right it is not specifically commanded in

01:40:07.660 the bible but submission to authority is granted on the fact the authority does not command you to

01:40:11.780 sin okay so um let's find a halfway point here okay i totally agree that um authority that commands

01:40:18.480 you to sin is authority that must be resisted yeah okay it must it must be resisted but i would argue

01:40:24.780 that the way that you know sins through reason and the compliance of god's nature is the logi

01:40:29.760 logic reason yeah okay as part of god's nature you would agree that that's true and so we would have

01:40:34.920 to determine which way you're being led based on reason and if you're being told to do something

01:40:40.400 unreasonable would you agree with that sure okay how is bowing unreasonable this is what i'll have to

01:40:47.540 default to her on it was a personal conviction i think uh as i outlined in scripture i think causing

01:40:52.920 someone to stumble even though they don't have the full knowledge right that like you know eating

01:40:56.680 uh meat offered in the temple to idols like there's no other gods right but some people still didn't

01:41:01.400 have the full conscience uh and the knowledge of the truth and their conscience were still weak so

01:41:04.840 paul's like yeah that causes someone else to sin and they their faith is weakened yeah i won't do

01:41:08.760 that i won't command them to do that sure and so that was the standard where i was going by and

01:41:12.100 that would comply with reason sure yeah so this is in compliance with reason this doesn't

01:41:17.120 actually answer as to how bowing itself i don't think i don't think bowing is sinful so if a

01:41:21.920 husband says to a wife like look i am insecure yeah you know what baby i'm insecure and you know

01:41:28.760 what makes me feel really good when you bow yeah shouldn't she bow i don't think so i don't think

01:41:35.460 that would help her husband um grow in christ personally why because he's finding his validation

01:41:40.280 it just helps his insecurity he's finding his validation someone other than christ

01:41:43.340 i'm sorry um if if a man cries right and his wife is comforting him when he's is that finding

01:41:53.600 validation other than christ i think his wife can support him but i ultimately believe his wife

01:41:57.160 should point him back to christ yeah but he's not lost christ where's the loss happening here

01:42:02.480 you so when you're talking about idolatry here idolatry is the replacement of god yeah

01:42:08.540 you're not replacing god by uh you know your wife crying on your lap for instance she's not

01:42:15.620 idolizing you that's not a replacement for god i mean we're getting into the weeds here based on

01:42:19.760 i don't think we are no i i'm gonna keep going on this okay but mostly this comes from the biblical

01:42:24.000 understanding of how i see husbands love your wives as christ loved the church and i don't think

01:42:28.120 christ demanded that sort of bow and that sort of um okay could be getting in the weeds there yeah

01:42:33.860 i'm sorry didn't people get on their knees and worship christ they did oh well i'd say that's

01:42:37.660 interesting isn't it yeah well it's i mean obvious understanding the husband can you worship

01:42:41.080 your are you supposed to and who's the bride who's the bride no the church and so the church got on

01:42:45.020 their knees and worship and i'm sorry i just want to make sure i got this right in it are you not

01:42:50.980 commanded uh wives submit to your husbands as unto who lord okay and everybody bowed to the lord yeah

01:42:59.540 and everybody bowed to jesus christ and worshiped him openly right yeah okay well then i don't i don't

01:43:04.420 understand the how you reconcile i think if for someone with a heart posture and a conviction

01:43:08.840 and a past that would cause them to tend to idolize the person they're submitting to and show reverence

01:43:14.240 for god i think that could be communicated in a healthy relationship i get it so let me let me make

01:43:18.920 sure i get this right i'm going to steel man it yeah if bowing if a woman has a past where she thinks

01:43:26.600 that bowing to her husband is going to somehow lead her away from jesus she shouldn't bow

01:43:31.840 yeah got it i agree 100 but shouldn't that comport with reason yes and if it doesn't comport with

01:43:40.580 reason isn't she just being kind of an obstinate brat maybe yeah so i mean if so if your wife is

01:43:46.320 just like i'm not going to bow to you even though you've commanded me to do so and it comports with

01:43:52.660 reason why you want to be bowed to yeah she should fucking bow right i don't think husband should demand

01:43:59.200 respect why i think they should earn it well that's not demanding respect maybe you're maybe

01:44:03.280 you just like to watch her bow because it's fun like what's wrong with that i don't think that's

01:44:08.000 a good example of christ-like love should we play the balance yeah but the thing is the thing is is

01:44:12.440 like this is this where you get in the idea of submission and obeyance which is always so

01:44:16.060 bothersome to me to submit is to obey sure okay to lead is not to justify sure yeah so if that is the

01:44:24.640 case why do i need to justify why i want you the obeyer to do the thing i want you to do who you're

01:44:30.200 supposed to obey as long as it comports with reason because i'm going to go back to the model

01:44:37.400 of christ in the church okay i think obedience is for your benefit and i think obedient demanding

01:44:43.040 justification agreed yep demanding justification is not always to your benefit no but i do think

01:44:48.560 things that come out of a place of insecurity and then demanding obedience in those ways that you

01:44:54.960 the obeyer are not the determiner of where that's a justification that's requesting justification for

01:45:01.020 the thing to request the justification it's not obeying it's the opposite of obeying why does a

01:45:06.280 husband need to endlessly justify the things that he wants from his wife he's the leader she's the

01:45:12.280 obeyer why why is this this kind of idea of like endless justification necessary unless he asks you

01:45:19.440 to do something directly which is sinful shouldn't you do it depends on the relationship i would say

01:45:27.280 largely yeah she should obey she should obey yeah so bow when you serve my food bow what am i asking

01:45:33.040 you to do that's a sin tell me why does he need her to bow he doesn't have to justify that to her

01:45:39.520 we've established this why does he need to justify endlessly what he's asking her to do

01:45:45.080 again if christ told his apostles to bow yeah does he need to justify it christ was god god and

01:45:53.000 carnet yeah that but i'm sorry what are we representing here in marriage yeah it's a it's a type

01:45:58.220 absolutely and you're supposed to as unto who as unto the lord okay so very strange that now i have to

01:46:03.860 justify even though i'm supposed to be the representation of of christ who did not have to

01:46:09.140 justify so yeah this is where i think modern women get submission wrong they don't seem to understand

01:46:15.020 that inobeyance is not the request of justification that is not oh to obey that is to not obey for me to

01:46:23.200 ask you to endlessly justify everything you do if you're not asking me to do anything that does not

01:46:28.200 contort to reason how is that me obeying there's a lot of words how is it well let me simplify it how is

01:46:36.240 it me obeying to ask you to justify the thing that you asked me to do if it's not a sin

01:46:41.840 you're right you have a point yeah i think the important part too is understanding like i said

01:46:48.280 the heart of obedience and that you would obey someone because you see what their point and what

01:46:52.580 their goal is yeah okay so that's fair okay so i would say if there's there's a point and there's a

01:46:58.300 goal like this is a humiliation ritual yeah designed to punish you yeah you know what i mean or

01:47:04.240 something like this uh that would lead to sinful behavior i can get that right but what i don't get

01:47:10.520 is the idea that modern women and this is pure feminist take i'm just going to tell you right

01:47:16.340 it's a pure feminist take there's an obeyer and then there's the obeyed yeah if the husband is the

01:47:23.000 obeyed the obeyed do not need to justify to the obeyer and we have the clear criteria of to sin

01:47:28.760 so to sin would be when you no longer obey so if you're being requested to do a thing

01:47:33.800 and it's not to sin don't you think they should obey i think but they could also communicate if it

01:47:41.420 was a healthy relationship they could communicate that they are being tempted yeah but it's also

01:47:45.500 healthy to not do indulgence and constantly have to justify everything you do especially if you're

01:47:51.280 trying to lead you can imagine for instance a general having to tell a second in command justify

01:47:55.600 every move he wants to make on the board it's not for him to question yeah it's for him to obey

01:48:00.820 as long as it comports with reason so the general says go surrender to the enemy well now we have a

01:48:06.180 problem right problem but before that was in question yeah because now the goal is in question so but

01:48:10.560 before that any order he gives is lawful right and so should be obeyed how how does this not conform

01:48:17.720 the exact same way i think the relational dynamics are interesting because bowing does

01:48:22.080 significant significant i think difference in equality and um level of authority and i think

01:48:28.140 the authority can be given to the husband yeah they're not equal you're not equal i think they

01:48:31.860 are no they're not i think they're equal in value value is not the same as being equal materially

01:48:36.840 meaning this equal in role but same and no listen sorry sorry not equal in role equal in value but

01:48:41.680 different in role yeah then that's not equal because you can have some roles which are more significant

01:48:46.460 than others that's not equality it's the opposite of equality so for instance um i agree with you

01:48:53.520 yeah that a woman is equal to a man ontologically her soul is worth just as much she's just she's

01:48:58.960 every bit as valuable unless we're on a ship unless we're on a ship or requires a lot of physical

01:49:03.680 strength this type of thing her physical value now is not anywhere near what my physical value is do

01:49:09.580 you think her intellectual or emotional value would compensate no okay why would it what about her

01:49:14.240 ability like what what is her what is her like emotional her emotional investment in running

01:49:19.400 what is that going to do it doesn't assist with the running of the ship so when you make it this kind

01:49:23.900 of like role differential yeah your role is to lead and your role is to follow you're actually saying

01:49:29.600 point blank you are not equal here one is the obeyer right and one is to be obeyed you're making a

01:49:37.520 category area you say both of you are 100 equal ontologically your soul yeah the thing that makes

01:49:45.140 you you totally equal to the thing that makes me me yeah i have no dispute with that have a dispute when

01:49:51.280 we get to the role idea though you are not equal in role you are not you are to be obeyed and they are to

01:49:59.040 obey that is submission i i don't see a way around that yeah i think it just comes at the heart of why

01:50:07.040 you're commanding the thing yeah but but why do you need to justify that because i think you're

01:50:12.920 supposed to model christ yeah but christ didn't have to make these justifications but christ laid

01:50:18.040 down his life to serve not to be served yeah but but what does that mean exactly that he laid when he

01:50:24.000 lays down his life to serve right he says i am the way and you must obey me everything everything

01:50:32.220 yeah that he commands you must do because you love him yeah so everything that he commands you

01:50:37.500 must do okay so if the wife is supposed to treat the husband as unto the lord everything he obeys which

01:50:45.020 is within the criteria of what christ commands yeah she must obey i think in imitating christ as a

01:50:51.600 husband operating out of insecurity to ask for a bow would be in direct contrast of the character of

01:50:57.660 christ yeah but when you say insecurity i would say the opposite i'd say it's the most secure thing you

01:51:01.680 can do as a husband to not endlessly burden your family with nonsensical justifications from women

01:51:09.440 making endless demands for them when it's unnecessary for instance do you think it's good for your wife to

01:51:15.740 constantly second guess you no no it's not that but that's a justification the second guessing is the

01:51:21.640 asking and requesting of justification that's second guessing yes but i think you would be showing her

01:51:26.140 through your character and she would eventually learn to trust you based off of your intent and your

01:51:30.340 purpose she doesn't need to learn to trust you she's your wife that's already inferred that's

01:51:34.640 already implied that's already done otherwise why'd you get married i think it grows with time right

01:51:38.960 yeah maybe but right from the beginning are you saying we can only have a biblical marriage after

01:51:42.800 seven years or can we do it right away no you start from the beginning yeah it's not for her

01:51:47.220 to endlessly question the authority of her husband it's not for her to do and this is a modern a modernist

01:51:54.840 christian view this has never been the view historically in christianity ever that you

01:52:00.420 were to consult your wife about blah it's never been the view ever when has that ever been the

01:52:05.920 view honestly i i don't think obviously church history i haven't studied church bowing and husband

01:52:11.280 wife relationships but i would say just being pure in heart especially me and wanting to guard my

01:52:16.320 intentions and actions and why i would demand that from someone i like i said maybe it's a personal

01:52:20.440 bias maybe i'm reading into this too much but i would say that coming from that perspective i don't

01:52:25.040 think that's something you could justify largely speaking because i think the tendency would be to

01:52:29.620 come from a place of pride then let me ask you this if you think that that's actually true do you think

01:52:34.560 that the world right now the united states would be a better place or a worse place if wives mostly

01:52:39.740 did what their husbands said i don't know if i can answer that question think about it for a second

01:52:45.340 do you think that the united states would be a better place which one do you think is more right

01:52:51.100 what no just which one do you think has the burden of responsibility and if it's their job to lead it's

01:52:57.480 your job to be led and if you want to allow yourself to be led how can anybody lead it's it's this adage

01:53:03.480 of what men have the authority why won't you give it to them then well they have to earn it well then

01:53:08.460 they never had it so the question becomes to you would the united states do you think be better

01:53:15.680 right now if wives did a lot more listening and doing what their husbands said or less i i think i

01:53:24.020 would still need more time to think yeah you take as much time as you need all right austin can you

01:53:29.620 pull back up the uh the sheet please wrong one okay um yeah what does that mean that she doesn't push

01:53:38.220 her convictions on the who are we talking about there well so and just to finish i guess reading

01:53:42.380 this carly does not want to put herself in this situation to idolize a man bowing itself is not a

01:53:47.080 sin but that movement encourages that that heart posture a true husband would never have any reason

01:53:54.920 to ask her to bow short of his own insecurity if you want scripture to back this idea up of offending

01:54:01.620 another's conscience please consult romans 14 12 23 and 1 corinthians 8 yeah actually we can

01:54:07.360 we can consult both um when you're talking about the offense to the conscience i think in this

01:54:13.640 context um it's food yeah well well yeah but what we're talking about specifically here

01:54:22.160 is not offending somebody's conscience what if their conscience is wrong yeah you would inform them

01:54:27.720 yeah you can afford well not only that but you can't you have to risk offense to inform them

01:54:32.120 i would say you inform them before you demand the action yeah but you still are so what what what

01:54:39.220 did the apostles get killed for wasn't it for offending the conscience of others no i'd say

01:54:43.940 it was for preaching the name of christ it was and what did that do that then the holy spirit said

01:54:48.260 and people decided whether they wanted to repent of their sin or not yeah and it offended the

01:54:51.820 conscience of the powerful right and in turn the powerful killed them isn't that true sure yeah yeah

01:55:00.500 so so i i'm going to take this and i'm going to say this of mischaracterization i don't even think

01:55:07.880 discourse is possible without risking offense to the conscience if you're talking about world views

01:55:12.140 i mean you can imagine if you break a person's world view down to the point where they go into

01:55:17.380 cognitive dissonance yeah that is like the most offensive thing possible that you've done it's

01:55:23.760 actually physically painful by the way you know this yeah right it's physically painful so i i don't

01:55:30.040 really understand maybe you can just clarify it for me repeat the question that the question is the

01:55:36.740 offense of a person's conscience you should never do this i think offending another's person's

01:55:42.060 conscience and causing them to stumble in their walk is directly from what i've read in my

01:55:46.180 forte in scripture is is a command not to uh do that you're not supposed to violate another's

01:55:52.460 conscience you can extract them in love like i said you know love edifies versus just knowledge

01:55:57.660 okay well then yeah i think we're just talking about two different things then if you're saying

01:56:01.800 so if you're if you're saying that you're not supposed to cause them to stumble towards christ

01:56:06.680 yeah i agree with that okay but i think that that's different than the offense of the conscience which i

01:56:12.520 think moves to be the lord's christ yeah so i just want to untangle those maybe you can explain it

01:56:17.920 better for me i mean yeah i think the conscience is towards what does not proceed from faith is sin

01:56:23.300 and so if someone at like i said 14 romans 14 he's talking about people feeling like things are sins

01:56:29.480 that actually aren't because of the true knowledge of coming to christ and so i think the loving thing

01:56:34.740 to do is to instruct them to let them know obviously in the time being yeah listen we can eat food

01:56:39.760 offered in the temple we can do these things because there's nothing inherently sinful with

01:56:44.000 them to the pure all things are pure because we're talking about intentionality yes intentionality but

01:56:47.900 at the time being when the person's conscience is still convicting them you wouldn't say hey eat this

01:56:51.740 meat my approach oh yeah yeah i see what you're saying so you're saying um that at the time if you

01:57:00.580 were to move in to say that yeah right that would actually be counterproductive moving towards christ

01:57:06.420 yeah then why earlier did you give me the criticism that i didn't pull out my bible and start reading

01:57:12.520 it to a woman even though it would have done exactly the thing you just described and offended

01:57:16.760 her conscience it would have enlightened her conscience because i think you're it would have

01:57:19.960 offended it it would have offended it by that metric do you know that well but here's the thing

01:57:26.320 but here's the thing here's the thing paul paul isn't saying you will know when you will know when

01:57:31.580 it will yeah he's saying you have to assess the situation and then you'll know so if they if they

01:57:36.040 are eating this right while they're eating it maybe not the best time to go over and say oh hey by the

01:57:40.700 way that's what that's a sin what you're doing right now probably not the best time right so he's saying

01:57:46.840 okay now we have the intentionality portion here isn't that what you're saying yeah i think in 14 he's

01:57:52.480 talking but he also says too like if if eating meat causes another one to sin i i will never eat meat

01:57:57.380 again and so he actually sacrifices his personal liberty yeah so if he's in vegan if he's in vegan

01:58:01.900 land preaching to the vegans yeah right he's not going to come in to eat a bunch of meat and risk

01:58:06.100 offense yeah in this context because they'll never hear his word these people are hearing my what what

01:58:10.780 the words are that i'm saying yeah i'm not risking offense by even engaging in discourse in this way so

01:58:16.040 i i don't i don't even really see how they're comparable but um yeah i'm good there if you want to move

01:58:22.440 it to the next one okay really quick i'm going to read this super chat from pelagic pelagic says

01:58:28.680 thank you for the super chat man i know thy works that thou art neither cold nor hot i would thou

01:58:33.400 wear it cold or hot so then because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot i will spew thee out of

01:58:39.260 my mouth revelation 3 15 16 yes i just i just want to be really clear and maybe the uh the christians

01:58:45.260 in the audience will laugh hysterically at me but i've read revelation now multiple times and i don't

01:58:49.980 i still don't understand a word of it so thanks to us um literally just don't understand hardly any

01:58:54.980 of it and anybody that you go to to get it kind of clarified says well nobody really understands

01:59:01.260 very much of it because you're not really supposed to understand too much of it so i appreciate the

01:59:04.880 quote but i'm just being completely honest right multiple times i still don't really understand it

01:59:10.420 very well andrew you asked him a question and you needed a little more time to think about it

01:59:16.160 uh it was the question about wives i think listening to their yeah would that would america

01:59:20.880 be better if more wives listen to their husbands can i can i opt out of this one i mean you if you

01:59:29.740 don't know the answer that's fine yeah you just say i don't know the answer but i would ask you

01:59:34.540 to give me like your intuit your intuitive answer the thing that you would just kind of intuit

01:59:39.780 yeah off the cuff and i won't hold you to it yeah that's fair so generally my thought process

01:59:44.660 behind all of this is that i do think biblical submission is what would generally fix most

01:59:50.660 marriage problems the problem is i think commanding submission because of submission

01:59:54.600 and just i have the authority i have the authority is wrong i think all submission should come out of

01:59:59.560 a place of love knowing the person is actually laying down their life for you in an effort to grow

02:00:04.220 you and allow you to flourish and you obeying them actually is a mutually synergistic combination

02:00:09.020 yeah but i don't think that the dispute is around whether or not when you say synergy that a man and

02:00:16.480 his wife are supposed to work well together nobody nobody's disputing that it's the operation of how

02:00:21.820 they work well together that we're that is in dispute here okay so the question is if more wives obeyed

02:00:29.200 their husbands right instead of second guessing and questioning every single justification they have

02:00:34.520 for why they want a thing done yeah do you think that this country would be better or worse generally

02:00:38.800 speaking i think i could say yes it would be better yeah yeah i agree and so that's what i push towards

02:00:44.760 is the actual idea of what submission really is but i through the logic of trying to bring people

02:00:50.140 through point a to point b what is actually rational here yeah but i think as men speaking to other men we

02:00:55.980 actually need to call men to a higher standard to lay down their life like christ and then you won't have

02:01:00.540 to command the wife to submit because she will already submit because of the respect she has for

02:01:05.360 her husband yeah but this is just creating a dualistic standard and now you've ruined the synergy

02:01:09.940 so when you're talking about a synergy between a husband and wife your role your role yeah this is

02:01:14.840 the two and and if we combine these two rules roles now we have synergy right but the second

02:01:20.680 authority is questioned this role is now not in its role and this role still is yes so for you to say

02:01:28.200 okay wait wait right your authority has to first be oh i don't know she has to um you know feel a

02:01:37.600 certain way or she has to be kind of brought to it a certain way or this type of thing if you're

02:01:43.200 married in a christian relationship this is part of your vow taking okay you're already there yeah by her

02:01:50.180 not holding up her end that whole obeyance thing she's already destroying the synergy yes you cannot strip a

02:01:56.700 man of his authority and then say how dare you not leave me i think i can agree with your statement

02:02:01.160 and say yes in a biblical marriage context it would be much better if wives submitted to their husbands

02:02:05.600 yeah obeyed obeyed yeah obeyed yeah yeah final question uh andrew this has come up on previous shows

02:02:13.780 perhaps we maybe touched on it a little bit tonight i don't know if you recall there was this uh woman who

02:02:19.140 uh told a story about a female jiu-jitsu practitioner broke all the legs two legs two legs of a male

02:02:28.120 assailant um but speaking with her i think oh living under score donated 100 i've never seen andrew this

02:02:39.000 chill i'm claiming big old brian gave him a tranquilizer substance it's true i agree with luke that

02:02:45.380 horse tranquilizer i've been shaming brian on weight for the year no results it's true i've been i i'm

02:02:52.580 probably the number one target for for fat shaming and body shaming online um but uh thank you living

02:02:59.200 appreciate it and i did give andrew some horse tranquilizer i've been dropping weight so there's

02:03:03.200 that yeah uh so this this woman she i've heard this from some atheists agnostics christians uh that

02:03:11.480 christians it's it's unchristian like to judge christians don't judge uh i'm trying to think

02:03:19.720 the specifics of how they frame it but uh i don't know if you recall her specifically saying it's

02:03:24.880 it's wrong to to make these sorts of judgments um luke do you think it's the case that christians

02:03:30.460 should not judge sorry there should have been a period there but uh just in general um i think we

02:03:38.260 should default judgment the lord says vengeance is mine i think ultimately we can only judge the

02:03:42.400 outward actions and he can only judge the heart but i think we can operate on the fact if we know

02:03:46.320 how he works on our hearts and we can reach out to others in the same way that he has reached out to

02:03:50.220 us uh i would read in first corinthians i believe four uh that he says judge nothing before the time

02:03:56.060 until the word comes who will bring both to light the hidden things of the darkness and reveal the

02:03:59.800 counsels of the heart so that would be my scripture to back that up of i'm open to being open-minded

02:04:04.780 obviously i know jesus uh commands that you should judge he says judge not unless you judge uh others

02:04:09.980 and then he says that the same measure used each other uh judge others will be used to judge yours

02:04:13.880 yes and i think there's a difference between jesus made jesus made judgments daily yeah yeah go ahead

02:04:18.320 but obviously jesus was god incarnate and we're operating under his authority and i think he will

02:04:22.060 give us conviction that we will be able to make a righteous judgment to discern but i think the judgment

02:04:26.200 of value being able to say listen christian not christian and you take a stand and you step up and i

02:04:31.180 think you ultimately like um paul says in romans 2 right after the reprobates the whole thing he says

02:04:35.360 like and who are you to make the judgment because you're standing above the law and pushing down on

02:04:39.860 people the law that you're literally still breaking and so i would default to say no you should not

02:04:44.880 judge but then there's things like okay what's healthy for me should my daughter or son go to this

02:04:48.900 school and those are judgments that you're making but ultimately it's for the benefit of the person

02:04:53.120 versus the outcome of trying to judge the person and shame them how do you know if a person's a christian

02:04:58.420 you can't only the lord knows i think you can observe their works james 2 24 talks about you

02:05:03.240 know faith is accompanied by works and what if they just tell you they're not they tell you they're

02:05:06.580 not a christian then you would preach the gospel to them that's your responsibility you would assume

02:05:09.880 that they're not what's up you would assume that they're not honestly i assume a lot of people don't

02:05:13.640 know the lord and if they do it's just a healthy surprise yeah i know but if they tell you

02:05:17.020 that they're not are you making a judgment that okay i'm gonna believe you i'll take them at their word

02:05:22.660 and i'll take them at their word right so in other words if people tell you what they are and who they are

02:05:28.060 believe them sure right so if they tell you that they're a horrible fucking monster you should

02:05:32.840 probably believe them right if they tell you that they have no remorse whatsoever for any of the

02:05:37.200 things that they've done in fact they recommend other people do them yeah i should take them at

02:05:42.160 their word sure and then but but how is that you're circling back to the point yeah but how is that

02:05:47.800 judging their soul or judging their salvation taking them at their word that they believe the things

02:05:56.160 that they believe why would that be a judgment or a value assessment that you yourself wouldn't hold

02:06:01.020 because i just don't feel comfortable doing it i'm gonna be honest with you i've been on both sides

02:06:05.600 where you like you tell people that they aren't saved and for me personally when i do talk to people

02:06:09.960 i just always point them back to scripture and i let the holy spirit he says he comes to convict of sin

02:06:13.700 righteousness and judgment and i do believe that the word is living and i think especially when mixed

02:06:18.300 with faith when you point someone to what the standard is for what salvation is you save yourself a lot

02:06:22.880 of trouble when you're just trying to tell people that they are or are not saved uh first john was

02:06:26.380 written yeah you say i mean you say you don't feel comfortable with it but why wouldn't you take

02:06:30.300 them at their word that's what i don't get because i think that's only what their words are saying and

02:06:36.220 i think the intentions of the heart are different yeah but you have no way to assess that other than

02:06:41.280 with their words and most of the time with their words wouldn't your value judgment be correct

02:06:45.680 if somebody tells you for instance i went out and did all these crimes right um wouldn't your value

02:06:53.200 judgment of believing that they did probably steer you the right way into solving crimes right like

02:06:58.260 wouldn't it yeah yeah it would i i think we're talking about we're confusing general judgment with

02:07:03.380 salvific judgment okay if somebody tells you they're not saved yeah how are we confusing anything

02:07:09.680 then you would probably agree with them you say you know what listen you're confessing that your heart

02:07:13.220 you're you revealed the fact that your heart is far from the word and now we're going to work to

02:07:16.700 reconcile that yeah but that's what i'm saying is that you shouldn't i'm not saying that you should

02:07:20.700 judge a person's salvation yeah i'm just saying the only means for which you would have to make

02:07:24.880 these assessments is the words they're communicating is the words and the things that they do yeah so

02:07:29.280 obviously if a woman is literally telling you okay last night i was engaged in a multitude five man

02:07:37.840 gangbang okay uh or i went up to australia and fucked 500 virgin men right do you think that maybe

02:07:45.680 it's okay for me to make the claim ah maybe your idea of what christian is yeah is not what christian

02:07:55.100 is don't you think that that's a totally fair assessment i think it's a fair assessment do you

02:07:59.360 have weak moments in your faith not where i go fuck 500 virgins no no i'll just say that i've

02:08:05.120 largely reaped a lot of negative fruit from making those quality and value judgments on people

02:08:09.580 and it's usually i mean christ says like the people that have forgiven much will love him the most sure

02:08:13.860 and so i think with those but how do you forgive people don't want forgiveness how does he forgive

02:08:18.340 people don't want forgiveness he doesn't he doesn't you present the kindness of the word he says no if

02:08:23.160 he if you don't come to me right and proclaim that i am the way the truth and light there is no

02:08:27.680 forgiveness for you you have to request it no longer so if somebody's unrepentant like this

02:08:32.100 australian chick i remember who was here who said that she went and took like 300 or 500 men's

02:08:36.620 virginity over a weekend you believe what you want and i'll believe what i want yeah you're really

02:08:42.680 telling me you think it's inappropriate to make the value assessment at that point you are not a

02:08:47.840 christian and you should not say that you are because you're not i think i wouldn't want to make

02:08:52.900 that value value judgment i would want to stand on what the word says and i would say the word tells

02:08:57.240 you that that that wouldn't be a christian that's why you have all that criteria they're not walking

02:09:01.080 according to the scripture and so yeah my inclination would be this person probably does

02:09:05.160 not have the holy spirit convicting them of sin this person has not come to christ they actually

02:09:08.640 haven't repented of their sin in the first place but i don't want to stay what would it take like if

02:09:13.420 they were on a stage like just slicing up a live baby in front of you and saying i love jesus though

02:09:19.780 like would that be enough yeah that would be enough okay you need to stop right you need to stop

02:09:25.280 because no that and you would say they weren't a christian right wait i just want to make sure

02:09:31.100 they're slicing up a live baby you can say at that point you're not a christian and this is where i

02:09:37.640 think we disagree on a lot of things i'm coming from a place of personal conviction based off of

02:09:41.500 anecdotes i've seen of people that have made those value judgments about close friends and other people

02:09:45.940 based on their actions in a moment of weakness you think that it would be a moment of weakness that

02:09:51.320 they were up there slicing up a baby in front of people yeah i think oops i think generally speaking

02:09:56.400 yeah slicing up a baby probably not someone who's operating under the conviction and power of the

02:10:00.560 holy spirit and they're not born again yeah and if they were up there if they were up there saying

02:10:04.120 i'm a christian would you correct it yeah i would step up and say listen this is what the word says i

02:10:08.020 would not say oh listen like you know i can i'm now going to decide your eternal fate based on one

02:10:12.840 action you should you should condemn that you're instructed to condemn it you're instructed to say

02:10:16.320 you're not a christian this is not christianity this is all wrong they're slicing up a live baby

02:10:20.780 totally immoral we're called to stand up and say but also there's usually a lot of women that

02:10:25.220 actually have abortions do realize the depth of their sin and they come to christ following that

02:10:29.980 when the catholic church was burning witches who were giving out abortions were they wrong

02:10:34.480 i think that's out of my scope why i would need more details was it moral or immoral did they were

02:10:41.320 they giving them a chance to repent no well this was now a crime you gave an abortion that's it yeah

02:10:48.140 death penalty i mean they're going eye for eye on that yeah it was an eye for an eye i mean they're

02:10:52.500 killing someone else they get killed themselves right is is that or is it you're such a greater

02:10:56.540 threat to society that we can't let you get back out and kill other people i'm still i'm still reading

02:11:01.500 scripture i have friends that are uh you know anti-death penalty pro-death penalty i think christ

02:11:05.420 commands are along the lines of you know love your enemies pray for those that persecute you

02:11:08.800 and i think usually historically every time the church takes the sword usually doesn't paint well for

02:11:13.780 them well i don't know saint olga saint olga went and you know took out an entire um well people

02:11:19.040 they took out really an entire people in a massive town killed them all for the sake of revenge saint

02:11:25.120 interesting well who declares them a saint well the church the church declares them a saint of course

02:11:31.780 yeah yeah saint saint olga look her up by the way saints have killed more people than you could

02:11:37.380 ever imagine yeah and done it for all sorts of really really sound reasons so it's like idea of

02:11:43.680 hippie jesus sissy jesus sissy christianity this is like a new kind of idea which comes from a

02:11:50.680 feminized arm of humanity and i don't i i literally see it as part of gynocentrism yeah uh because when

02:11:57.320 i look at church history here's what i see i see things like the best way to deal with a heretic

02:12:02.320 is a sword through his gut i see saint olga i see like i see this over and over and over and over

02:12:08.420 where it's like look uh there is a time even for the pushback right there is a time even for us to

02:12:16.380 hit back and in order to do that we would have to identify who is or who is not the thing yeah so

02:12:22.260 that's all i'm saying that's fair uh i would like to learn more about that obviously i'll be writing

02:12:26.380 down and researching saint yeah dm my wife uh rachel she'll give you tons and tons do you have

02:12:31.720 scripture too on death of course and okay yeah fantastic the orthodox view well the orthodox

02:12:36.920 view and the catholic view on the death penalty is mixed i i'm not i'm not for the death penalty by

02:12:42.780 the way me personally i'm not so so it's like the one progressive view maybe i hold

02:12:48.400 we got a chat here from sean hundred dollar super chat really appreciate it sean won't let me send in

02:12:55.560 a tts i don't know why but seems like this guy is mad because his girl couldn't hold her worldview

02:13:01.160 just seen a little of this debate but what andrew is saying is the truth and it looks like you maybe

02:13:06.160 wanted to come in on something not related to the super chat yeah go ahead um i mean you're responding

02:13:12.380 to that no i don't think yeah i'm sure maybe part of me is mad that uh i think she did hold her

02:13:16.780 worldview pretty well but i think it was a conviction of the conscience and uh i think i stand behind her

02:13:21.460 conviction yeah that was the chick sitting next to you right yeah yeah she was a nice chick

02:13:25.320 i didn't have any issues with her she i think the only thing we tangled on was the bowing yeah i

02:13:30.600 think that was it which is a pretty milquetoast conversation to begin with really that triggered

02:13:35.400 you bad enough to send all that in no like it wasn't even that bad of a that wasn't i don't think

02:13:39.260 it was that it was the treatment of nicolette and largely i mean if you want me to come fully clean

02:13:43.900 exactly why i'm here because i feel like this is a platform and an opportunity to preach the gospel

02:13:47.720 to a generation that's lost and been sold a false bill of goods on what love is and what christ is

02:13:51.760 yeah i mean great that's fine so you are using so you are using this platform taking advantage taking

02:14:00.500 advantage for your own gain not my own game right because you believe that doing a cost benefit

02:14:07.700 analysis right that the benefit of this is worth the cost yeah yeah that's the same exact argument

02:14:12.960 that that i just used against you same exact argument he just used against you same exact argument

02:14:17.780 everybody would use against you yes i'm here because i do the same thing the cost benefit

02:14:21.980 analysis yeah destroying your worldviews you fucking feminists you crazies you lunatics

02:14:27.080 the cost of doing that is great but the benefit of it is way better yeah i i think the highest gain

02:14:33.340 and the highest goal you could achieve is preaching the gospel and laying down your life in service for

02:14:37.720 others from a place of love yeah but i'm gonna take you back to your own view on paul when you said

02:14:43.440 uh that paul says okay in this case we do not want to offend the conscience meaning from from your view

02:14:49.540 from the way that you explain this to me that you think he means while you're in the engagement of sin

02:14:54.480 you actually will offend their conscience by reading them the gospel at that time so yeah that's what

02:14:59.400 you're saying there man remember saying well then why can't they eat the meat why not go to them

02:15:03.880 with the sin while they're eating the meat why because paul's saying he doesn't want to offend their

02:15:09.500 right that's it right because paul's saying you don't want to offend their conscience so don't

02:15:13.560 come to them with what the word is while you're engaging in this don't suggest or invite them to

02:15:18.480 right so this is your own worldview here yeah right it's just not being consistently applied yeah you

02:15:24.560 know who is consistently applying it me because i'm not doing the exact same thing that you just said

02:15:30.300 you shouldn't do which is while we're in the middle of engaging in this argument right the worst time

02:15:36.040 in the world at least according to you would be right then to pull out that pipe i think it depends

02:15:41.880 on how you go about it i agree context is key there could be times right but that wasn't it at least not

02:15:49.120 from my view okay all right a couple things here before we wrap up we will do a roast session what do

02:15:55.800 you think andrew of course of course 10 minute roast session tts has been lowered to uh 20 and up if you

02:16:02.920 want to get a little got to send those super chats in boys so we can keep hosting these great debates

02:16:07.520 right here in studio got to get them in there you go really quick we're going to read this from

02:16:11.420 pelagic pelagic thank you for all the uh soup chats tonight man good to see you in the chat really

02:16:15.940 appreciate it he says judge not that ye be not judged for with what judgment ye judge ye shall be

02:16:22.300 judged and with what measure ye meet did i say that right meet it shall be measured to you again

02:16:28.020 matthew 7 1 2 uh pelagic thank you very much for the uh soup chat man really appreciate it

02:16:32.820 we have one from sean here and brian i'm a fan of your show and the cruisable the cruise that's like

02:16:38.880 the gay version of the crucible this you know you know like how gay men like cruise and stuff

02:16:44.140 no you don't you don't know that's well that's not like c-r-e-w right no like to cruise you know

02:16:50.780 how like gay guys cruise like this is the gay version you should release a gay version of the

02:16:54.560 crucible brian brian but you brian sorry but you brian sorry you need to start trying to lose

02:16:59.720 weight bro better yourself but you're right hey i'm i'm working on it i'm working on it brian's

02:17:05.020 weight loss is bugged boys it's bugged by the way i'm pretty sure i just the crucible meme is it's now

02:17:11.460 a meme it's now a meme sean really appreciate the uh counter meme and then uh we will let the tts

02:17:17.380 come through so we have sorry i had to pause it temporarily to get through a couple things we'll

02:17:22.680 do a couple announcements then we'll show darren jones thank you man i appreciate it

02:17:26.560 court donated 100 did this boy's girlfriend's bull give him permission to be here today uh do you want

02:17:33.720 to respond to to that uh luke no okay all right seniors appreciate the uh tts appreciate it actually

02:17:42.240 really quick before i allow the last of the uh messages to come through 20 tts just a reminder

02:17:47.340 uh austin really quick let's do twitch discord and debate you please by the way you guys gotta get

02:17:54.920 over to debate university you gotta pick up the course today we're going to be adding a bunch to

02:17:59.760 it soon we have some content we're going to be releasing towards the end of this month uh you

02:18:05.460 got to get over there and get it guys yeah we'll pull it up here in just a sec austin uh pull it back

02:18:10.140 up please if you can if you can get the uh all right guys go to twitch.tv slash whatever drops to

02:18:15.080 following the prime sub it's been uh three minutes since we last had a prime i think it's bugged boys

02:18:20.840 i think it's bugged uh uh uh let's see and yeah follow prime sub over on twitch also guys we have a

02:18:30.360 discord discord.gg slash whatever if you guys hate joe brogan thank you for the gifted five subs

02:18:36.320 uh discord.gg slash whatever we post a bunch of really cool stuff on there bts i post that i've been

02:18:41.960 starting to post all the hate mail i've gotten there's some crazy stuff on there they come for

02:18:45.780 me come for andrew we we're posting a lot of the bts on there that's discord.gg slash whatever

02:18:51.020 and also guys go to debate university.com we're gonna get that pulled up here in just a moment

02:18:59.160 so debate university.com the course is verbal combat now guys october is almost here thanksgiving

02:19:08.900 christmas it's around the corner if you want to dominate your liberal family members at the

02:19:13.500 dinner table all of them all of them all of them uh and i suppose liberals can also use this course

02:19:18.100 too if they don't know just conservatives just conservatives you got to go to debate university.com

02:19:24.000 if you want to learn how to become a master debater like andrew you want to learn how to think debate

02:19:28.660 and craft arguments you want to be able to able to debate like andrew wilson you need to get the

02:19:33.540 course verbal combat six hours of instruction 80 plus different educational videos you can find it

02:19:39.140 at debate university.com and even more being released the hidden rachel content coming soon

02:19:45.620 been looking forward to that and also uh in the next couple of months we're going to make some

02:19:50.680 additional addendums we're just always going to keep kind of working on this as we go guys

02:19:55.240 perfect cool cool and again that is debate university that is debate university.com if

02:20:02.760 you guys would like to check that out uh i'm trying to think if there's oh i think closing

02:20:08.180 would you guys like closing statements sure sure yeah you can go ahead and then we'll let the

02:20:13.240 message this is like a quick question for the closing statement i asked this i'm not trying to

02:20:16.760 judge i asked this in love have you felt conviction about cussing or of course joking or filthiness

02:20:21.420 in your yeah so just so you know here's my view on this um intentionality is the borrower of the

02:20:30.900 offense so if a guy snubs his toe and he says oh shit this does not give offense in my view yeah to

02:20:38.780 god what gives offense uh in what is foul or evil language is based around the intentionality of that

02:20:46.660 language so if you say like what the fuck are you talking about to your best friend right who are

02:20:52.500 you offending here like who who where where's the offense right i i read matthew 12 36 where he says

02:21:00.520 that you will give an account for every idle word you utter and that made me realize that there are

02:21:04.220 words that are insinuating things that i know the lord does not approve of yeah but what no that's not

02:21:08.400 what it's saying okay if you're if you're giving an account for every idle word you say

02:21:12.040 then give the account okay but what if the account has no offense do you want to stand before the word

02:21:18.180 and say the insinuating marriage and well what is an idle what is an idle word by your speech what is

02:21:22.880 an idle word it's an idle word that you're uttering without thinking about it yeah so that's you know

02:21:27.260 what i do all the time yeah okay i walk around my house all the time muttering to myself are those

02:21:32.480 idle words i don't know you don't know yeah i don't well then how do we if we have no standard to

02:21:38.100 which to use uh here to to kind of make these assessments on what we should be doing yeah then

02:21:45.500 i don't even know how to respond to that like what is an idle word i mostly just asked about

02:21:49.880 your conviction i was curious yeah i don't think i don't think it comports to reason to say that if

02:21:53.980 a man snubs his toe and says oh shit um that this is this is giving offense to the lord for instance if

02:22:00.740 somebody else would say an immigrant got here here's my demonstration to you got here it had no idea

02:22:04.820 what shit meant yeah but he heard a guy say hand me that shit yeah so he goes over to somebody and

02:22:09.940 he says he says to him in broken english hand me that shit yeah do you think that that's different

02:22:15.140 do i think that that's different i know because i don't think he knows what the word means

02:22:18.160 so the intentionality maybe but i think you know what the words mean yeah i know but what about the

02:22:23.280 intentionality like shit only means what you want shit to mean same thing with like um uh here let me

02:22:29.840 give you an example pack up that shit right move that shit right this shit sucks there's like a

02:22:36.440 million and one different uses for this word that has nothing to do with human excrement zero that's

02:22:42.140 like yeah i i don't think i've never really had a very convincing argument on this okay from from any

02:22:48.100 side uh do i think that if you're a representative of the church for instance right probably not a good

02:22:55.640 idea um but i am most certainly not that why is it not because i think that through the cultural

02:23:02.880 taboo of the usage of certain words and language that you can draw people away uh from the church

02:23:09.880 but that doesn't mean that you're actually doing anything wrong or risking offense impact is even

02:23:14.800 greater than the intent even if the priest didn't mean it the impact i'm only saying it's it it goes to

02:23:19.200 the the idea of everything could be that way so it's it's i mean it's possible that yes that would

02:23:26.620 do that is greater than the intent it could be okay do you think but that's everything just so you know

02:23:31.600 that's everything i can think of do you think yourself do you view yourself you know you you've

02:23:37.160 subscribed to eastern orthodoxy as a representative i am not a representative of the eastern orthodox

02:23:41.280 church no not at all do you think yourself as a representative of christ uh again this is kind

02:23:48.220 of loaded yeah sure sure sure i'm just curious i guess i guess in like the best way that i

02:23:54.040 the best way that i can to understand what you mean by that then i would just concede yes right

02:24:01.020 but i also think like what about this like just kind of turn this around a little bit if i'm on a

02:24:07.000 if i'm on a construction yard okay right and i go in and i like have a little mouse voice and i'm all

02:24:12.140 prim and proper and i'm like well now listen gentlemen yeah uh you really shouldn't be

02:24:16.660 and instead i come in and i kind of talk like they do and i'm a little gruff like they are and this and

02:24:22.020 that wouldn't they actually respond better to what end i mean what do you would to the end of moving

02:24:27.780 them towards the gospel of jesus christ sure all things to all people yes it's like so this is a

02:24:32.980 double-edged sword it cuts both ways not short of sin and i think as christians you're called to be

02:24:36.580 holy and set aside uh those that call upon the name of the lord are supposed to depart from

02:24:40.180 iniquity but and we're also supposed to be above approach what is it so what is a den of vipers

02:24:44.400 what i mean is that a swear i don't think so i don't know the context what is a swear calling a

02:24:51.120 person a viper and condemning them to hell is that swearing at them i will say general principles

02:24:55.280 extracted from james he says that if you cannot control your tongue your religion is worthless yeah

02:24:59.140 that's true but that's he's not talking about cuss cuss words in three he starts talking about

02:25:04.080 what's true and what's untrue and yeah but these aren't these aren't references to cuss words

02:25:08.220 these are references uh to the the idea of what's defensible from my personal reading in ephesians

02:25:13.600 five he talks about the things that you don't want to be speaking of and not even be named among you

02:25:17.620 and the reason why is because they're insinuating things that the world would normally just consider

02:25:21.140 base and things that i think christians can easily ask the word for help and self-control in and be

02:25:26.720 you know above approach yeah but again and you acknowledge it's back to my personal good to be a greater

02:25:31.580 representation of christ and the church when you do clean up your speech based off of the perceived

02:25:35.700 impact you also agreed that that's true with literally everything on planet earth okay why

02:25:41.460 aren't you in a suit right now uh personal but wouldn't don't you think that that would be the

02:25:46.340 most bestest way that you could possibly convict the most people you have a greater impact i don't

02:25:50.740 think a suit what about that stash a lot of people aren't going to like that stash don't you think

02:25:55.260 that you should do a bunch of poll research to determine whether or not you should shave that stash

02:25:59.160 before you go on a show like this i don't think my shirt and my suit insinuate the base things that

02:26:04.940 ephesians five is talking about and i don't think saying the word shit when you snub your toe is

02:26:08.700 either so well uh why don't we do this before i was we didn't really even get to closing statements

02:26:16.120 i can do a quick one if you want why don't we let some chats through and then we'll get to

02:26:20.560 funny jd donated twenty dollars well-meaning young man who seems convinced problem is if he

02:26:27.640 goes home to his gf and says andrew made me think then he's toxic and she leaves regardless he needs

02:26:34.540 to do it palpatine voice by the way these are yes okay i'll do the palpatine voice i'll do the

02:26:39.820 palpatine voice come to the duck side paul glanos donated twenty dollars you can't meet the delusional

02:26:47.280 in their space to discuss reality as it is lost in translation gotta shake the tree a bit to jog

02:26:52.940 their world right i completely agree with this thank you 100 true you have to break the delusion

02:26:58.280 first joe bergen thank you for the gifted five subs and these are going to come through pretty much

02:27:02.280 one right after the other just letting you guys know by the way your way is not wrong 50 dollars

02:27:06.900 great debate guys thank you no we learned that buying is misogyny brian needs to lose weight

02:27:13.300 and refreshments are from the devil himself thanks gentlemen speaking of which beer beer beer me

02:27:20.120 uh rem thank you for the sub appreciate it senior sunders core donated twenty dollars

02:27:27.720 andrew you are the inspiration that all young men should look up to the world would be a much

02:27:34.000 better place fuck the live charts that have turned society into a beta soy hellscape yeah i agree with

02:27:40.040 hashtag andrew for president i agree with the tenoblet donated twenty dollars thank you this guy wants

02:27:46.860 to appeal to the bible yet has repeatedly shown that he will disregard even what jesus commanded

02:27:52.160 because he feels it's wrong submit to the husband how does that make sense smoking patriot donated twenty

02:28:00.540 five dollars andrew would you let this man into your roving post-apocalyptic war band seems like the

02:28:07.480 kind that would be good bait he can come he can come he can come yeah he can come you know with

02:28:13.100 paddocks with principles donated twenty dollars thank you paddocks the only thing that would make

02:28:18.460 this better would be if rachel was there i'm not sure how much this guy thinks can be accomplished in

02:28:24.420 one podcast keep up the good work andrew and brian hey paddocks thank you appreciate it man gmd

02:28:31.300 jim donated twenty dollars good to see you jim i was going to give the w to andrew but when i see

02:28:36.900 two men debating christianity in this fallen world the w and glory goes to the lord god and his only

02:28:43.620 begotten son jesus big w thank you jim donated twenty dollars when will you get a proper atheist

02:28:51.960 debater on to challenge andrew this cuck raising another man's children only argues from a base that

02:28:58.400 god exists he would get teared up by any none of girls slash twenty years kid well it's a good

02:29:03.420 thing i've debated with the best of them in the world and one but okay you keep on with your

02:29:08.380 delusions bro destiny destiny matt dillahunty the best of the best of the best that you guys have

02:29:15.040 all of them i've taken them all on multiple times wrecked them multiple times um you can go watch it

02:29:21.320 on the crucible dot video for yourself you have it we have uh truff bro's wrong but he's man enough

02:29:27.480 to show up god bless much respect for that yeah thank you truff for the soup chat spyro floropolis

02:29:33.360 canadian 20 luke when jesus drove out the tax collectors with literally whips who do you think

02:29:38.280 there who do you do do you think there was an element of shame there might he have possibly

02:29:43.000 used offensive language or swearing at the time while very angry and then we have oh do you want

02:29:49.300 to respond really quick okay uh sean crucible sorry i'll dispel but i support you both the memes

02:29:55.460 destroyed oh i i mean i knew that's what he was trying to say but the crucible the crucible

02:30:01.380 crucible it's the uh alphabet version of the crucible i want to address the shame question yeah

02:30:07.380 go ahead yeah no i think uh good question obviously i think the character of christ especially when he

02:30:11.800 does i'll pause it for after this one my andrew i saw you shaking your head at me calling you a role

02:30:19.060 model don't be so humble you may have flaws but you're very close to the ideal man for a thriving

02:30:25.780 society my flaws are overwhelming bro honestly the overwhelming model yourself after like any man in

02:30:34.040 the world um who has accomplished kind of these great feats you know what i mean i am i'm not that

02:30:40.240 i'm just some guy who argues on the internet that's it fall christ you wanted to respond to one of the uh

02:30:46.260 yeah no no definitely as when it comes to the judgment uh and the shame that christ was using

02:30:50.520 when he was driving the tax collectors out you know i think we were obviously given a narrative

02:30:54.340 account i don't think we can give the full insight to what he was doing and how he was saying the

02:30:58.100 things uh but i do think it's important too with the definition of shame i realize that with the

02:31:02.400 loaded terms obviously can mean different things i think shame pushes people down a road of saying

02:31:06.500 you have to fix yourself and i think genuine a call to repentance maybe there is some shame involved

02:31:11.440 but it's the action item of listen you are wrong here's the confrontation and the path to being

02:31:16.620 correct and before you jump in i'm actually just going to agree and split the difference what if we

02:31:21.120 just split the difference yeah there we go what if we just say it can lead to bad yeah and it can

02:31:27.160 also lead to good that both tactics can work and do work sure can we just agree to that and if we

02:31:34.600 can agree to that i'll just concede that that's true okay now i'll take that yeah okay all right

02:31:40.320 why don't why don't we get the closing statements from both of you then we'll let the last few

02:31:44.860 remaining chats come in so uh i think we do closing statement for you first right since he went yeah

02:31:50.700 since he went first you go he can close last does that sound good last word yeah so uh first luke

02:31:58.020 thanks for coming in yeah it really was and um i really enjoyed kind of the spirited back and forth

02:32:05.300 as i told you before i don't hold any grudges i think that conversations like this are necessary

02:32:10.060 um i will say that some of the criticisms i think came from a place of serious emotion without

02:32:17.720 with a lack of information right it's really easy when you're looking through the prism of a screen

02:32:23.060 to make tons of assumptions especially about the people who are behind it until you kind of have

02:32:29.320 more knowledge or you get to even meet the people or things like this there are conspiracy theories

02:32:33.840 about me abound everywhere right and brian too and anybody who's a prominent internet personality

02:32:39.200 there's all sorts of wild shit that's out there and like 99 of it is completely false for almost

02:32:46.180 all of these different personalities i think that the criticisms which were the weakest that you had

02:32:51.900 were like the substance abuse was a really bad one uh the idea of social trafficking was really

02:32:58.000 untenable there um especially when we got into it and you basically conceded look if it's if they're

02:33:03.280 here of their own free will and you're there of your own free will the criticism both way kind of

02:33:06.940 negates itself um i think that you made some pretty good points when it came to shame but ultimately

02:33:13.780 ended up kind of agreeing on the spanking argument and then i think ultimately the two of us can just

02:33:19.540 agree that the outcome either way could be good or bad but that both are legitimate tactics when it

02:33:25.760 comes to either a preaching the gospel or arguing either either either direction right um so ultimately

02:33:31.740 i'm actually going to end this with some buildups right uh tell you all the things that i think he

02:33:36.580 did really good at okay you did pull off the mustache barely okay barely but um but he did he did kind

02:33:45.400 of pull off the mustache here right he did pull off the mustache he came in super prepared i see all the

02:33:50.340 little sticky notes in the bible and i actually saw you out front writing right just like prepping for

02:33:56.260 this debate that i have a lot of appreciation for right so many times i get in debates people do no

02:34:02.160 prep no nothing they just think this is the easiest thing in the world to do you know etc etc

02:34:06.780 i also appreciated the kind of cost benefit analysis that you did where you said my conviction

02:34:12.320 is worth more than the blowback that's why any of us who are in this field who believe in what we're

02:34:17.980 doing do it right so my hat's kind of off to you for all of those things i thought your arguments

02:34:23.920 weren't great and you had to retract a bunch of them as well you deserve one of them i wasn't

02:34:28.720 charitable to but for the rest of it kind of my proverbial hats off to you appreciate it go ahead

02:34:35.060 with yours yeah thank you for arriving in person thank you for pointing me uh back to the word in

02:34:39.640 areas where i was uh definitely still under under experience and looking for more insight and

02:34:44.580 providing wisdom that has been from the church and obviously ideally my entire life is dedicated to

02:34:49.600 serving christ and what he looked like and what he acted like here on this earth and i would hope to

02:34:53.680 model that in my character and obviously some of that is influenced by my anecdotes and the people

02:34:57.840 i've interacted with and my own personal testimony and obviously some of that will have to come in

02:35:01.980 alignment with the truth but i do believe too when it comes to if you talk to people that were saved in

02:35:06.220 the book of acts they all had a different story of how they came to repentance in christ

02:35:09.500 it obviously was all submitted under the total truth of who he was but the way that he worked to

02:35:14.520 produce repentance in people's lives differed according to their story and some people already

02:35:18.340 acknowledged it when they came in and some people like i said he had to afflict the comfortable

02:35:21.640 and so and then yeah like i haven't been personally led to you shame yet but i'll look into the word

02:35:26.020 i'll look into the understanding and understanding the gospel too like yeah it should produce godly

02:35:29.880 sorrow should produce an understanding that your identity is wrapped up in your action but at the

02:35:33.980 same time too it should be pointing like we agreed pointing to an action versus just turning to a corner

02:35:38.720 and you know dunking on yourself over and over again because you keep giving into the action

02:35:42.500 um james says humble yourself in the sight of the word and he will exalt you and so my my last thing i want to

02:35:48.980 ask if we can just do yeah one challenge for you uh-huh would you be willing to go to one divine

02:35:54.320 liturgy in an orthodox church just one sure one yeah okay sure you know that there's a great one

02:35:59.520 right here in santa barbara i've heard yeah it's really good yeah really good so you promise one

02:36:04.440 sure okay all right we have a couple super chats and a couple messages too loud to come through we have

02:36:10.340 alex you and your husband have a good night andrew wilson thank you alex appreciate it that was a

02:36:16.360 reference to a debate not to you we have john get it of the cult feminism the secret history of

02:36:21.900 women's liberation by andrew's wife rachel wilson do it get the book we have marley but as a christian

02:36:29.380 shouldn't we be an example to others yeah not sure what this is in reference john if any of you want

02:36:35.440 to maybe swearing or church or possibly yeah all right thank you marley uh darian murphy some christians

02:36:41.420 mix the faith with feminism when such christians talk about judgment you never mention how christ

02:36:46.120 spoke to the pharisees w andrew w crucible w whatever darian murphy thank you very much and we

02:36:52.580 have sean here come on it's the goose mustache from top gun it is yes still cool come on he didn't

02:36:59.960 this guy nailed it that is the goose mustache got the gun didn't he die can we can you can we get

02:37:05.120 the zoom on the goose i don't know if we can yeah there we go right at the camera look this ladies

02:37:11.300 and gentlemen is the goose mustache it's true material what was like a quote from that movie

02:37:16.020 that goose said uh what was it turn and burn was it was he turn and burn what was what was his uh i

02:37:24.180 don't remember he just died yeah because he died he died in the movie too thank you sean appreciate

02:37:30.620 that and then i'm gonna let some of the chats through guys just a reminder tts is 20 if you

02:37:35.120 want to get last one in and then we're gonna wrap the show thank you guys keep kicking ass i'm assuming

02:37:41.300 it's ass boys feminism sucks long live the patriarchy soy boy porn stash is weak do you want to respond

02:37:48.020 to no okay all right thank you for the message uh i applaud them for coming on the christian questions

02:37:53.860 donated twenty dollars genuine question from my own conviction how does smoking not violate first

02:38:00.920 corinthians 3 17 really quick how does eating a donut not oh just really quick before i have you guys

02:38:06.500 jump in just and also to the last tts you said he's weak i mean i actually want to really applaud you for

02:38:10.760 coming in and having this discussion we have a lot of people who will dm us often with much more

02:38:17.080 aggressive or insulting or negative uh you know actually posted on our discord we had in the hate

02:38:24.360 mail section discord.gg slash whatever we had this woman say that she was going uh personally attacked

02:38:30.160 me personally attacked andrew she said that she wanted to come on and uh destroy she would absolutely

02:38:36.300 destroy us and that we would be too pussy to have a conversation with this woman i even offered a i

02:38:42.140 offer to fly this woman out at my expense to come on the show and then she ends up blocking us totally

02:38:48.960 ducks so credit to you because most people who dm us and say i'd love to have this conversation and

02:38:55.800 and you did so actually you know even though i disagreed with some of your assertions you did so

02:38:59.920 relatively politely yeah and also um i think i think respect is always given to people who have

02:39:07.720 criticisms but take those criticisms directly to those who they're criticizing so that that person

02:39:15.020 can give an account and defense for themselves and that i have a lot of respect for because it's rare

02:39:20.720 now really quickly the smoking thing can we yeah i just said how how does it not apply to eating a

02:39:26.920 jelly donut it's the same application i would comment on that not being given to things paul says that all

02:39:32.480 things are edifying but or all things are permissible but not all things are non-donated 20

02:39:36.360 dollars thank you lamau destiny he's some libtard leftist if you think he's the best you're sorely

02:39:42.620 mistaken still seen you argue one person who would be above room temperature iq including today we

02:39:49.220 should do it debate sam harris i'm happy to do it let's do it have you ever spoken with sam harris no

02:39:55.700 but i'm sure we could get him on whatever let's do it yeah and also really quick on that uh we've i think

02:40:02.600 we've put out an open challenge to any feminists any atheists who want to come on and debate andrew

02:40:10.300 uh if you want to come on and debate andrew in this sort of similar format we'll host it we'll

02:40:17.660 try to make make it work we're flexible schedule wise so but a lot of people even with these open

02:40:23.580 invitations they don't take it up well the thing is is we would like to keep it around still the ideas

02:40:29.580 and the themes that are talked about on the show and so the one thing i never wanted to do was insert

02:40:35.520 too much uh religiosity into uh whatever and the reason is is because it turns a lot of people away

02:40:44.040 from moving into what the content is about and so it slipped in where it slipped in and uh and i think

02:40:49.720 that that's good um though i wouldn't be opposed to having some religious debates i'm i'm okay with that

02:40:55.700 i think it's still better to keep things around kind of normative politics feminisms you know things

02:41:01.020 like that uh rather than kind of making too much of a primary around religious debates is that's not

02:41:07.280 really the format for this channel the crucible on the other hand might be a better place for those i

02:41:11.740 would keep this kind of in the realm if you're a feminist you're an egalitarian you want to do

02:41:16.840 political debates i'm happy to do those kind of bogging the channel down with the um with kind of

02:41:23.680 open religious stuff i think would not be good for whatever ultimately okay all right uh let's

02:41:30.480 see we'll let the last ones come through mecca wing zero donated twenty dollars what is this guy's

02:41:36.140 explanation of first peter three one this verse does not support the idea that husbands have to

02:41:41.880 earn submission for their wives a quick response yeah yeah read it hang on read it out loud read out

02:41:47.140 wives likewise be submissive to your own husbands that even if some do not obey the word they without a

02:41:51.400 word may be won by the conduct of their wives when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied

02:41:57.020 by fear do not let your adornment be merely outwards arranging the hair and jewelry so that means even

02:42:01.540 if he's telling you to do shit you don't want to do by doing it you're able to convince him better

02:42:06.740 to stay within the confines of what the lord is commanding and i think that's in first corinthians

02:42:11.420 as well too yeah no good point uh i definitely was not thinking of that scripture when i was coming

02:42:16.180 here with my opinion and i was mostly coming from an anecdotal conviction uh from my girlfriend so i am

02:42:21.100 emotionally implicated in that as well i will recognize but i will say that anthony edwards

02:42:25.680 isn't dead sorry okay i'll read these okay max um hi brian and andrew andrew you're very smart and

02:42:30.260 well spoken one question can i be on the show and you don't have to pay me lol love from australia

02:42:35.840 well you're not even from a real place so the answer is no there you have it andrew andrew has

02:42:40.300 spoken uh anthony edwards isn't dead from john mayer thank you for the 20 dollar soup chat i don't know what

02:42:46.100 this is uh in reference to but uh thank you man all right let me get allow these to all go through

02:42:52.060 guys last call 20 dollars brian's number one simp donated 20 dollars w brian thank you w andrew

02:42:59.580 thank you very much appreciate it thanks for all the show support today guys that's what keeps the

02:43:03.440 lights on here and allows brian to have me out so thank you guys

02:43:07.380 that man is a better christian than you andrew he forgave the blank girlfriend who got more red

02:43:14.220 flags in the chinese parade cast not stones when you never came back from getting the new

02:43:18.660 all right leave my fictitious black ex-wife black wife senior sunders core donated 20

02:43:26.080 andrew all i'm saying is when not if society crumbles to the liberal apocalypse that has been

02:43:32.660 manifesting for the last 10 years i want to be in your corner fighting to rebuild an ideal

02:43:37.900 civilization i don't know if i can make it without the marlboro paddocks with principles

02:43:42.140 donated 20 thank you paddocks i appreciated how respectful this was btw i've seen his wife rachel

02:43:49.640 talk about women from the show coming to andrew afterward much more open to change because of

02:43:55.060 his skill food for thought and i try not yeah senior sunders core donated 20 dollars today andrew set

02:44:02.380 this boy on the path to becoming a man i hope if there were any other boys watching they learned

02:44:07.740 something seniors thank you uh for the tts really appreciate it but you just i mean you recently

02:44:13.240 finished your degree md jim donated 20 thank you jim trust in the lord and the holy spirit will

02:44:18.860 convict you of the correct tactics to use in any situation big w to the lord and to all of my christian

02:44:25.660 brothers and sisters giovanni jd donated 20 appreciate it what happened then on whatever they say

02:44:33.700 that the wilson's small heart grew three sizes that day luke's a nice young man god bless

02:44:40.060 quit being a prophet though thank you giovanni had donated 20 i thought this guy was gonna be

02:44:46.940 another kuma gremlin he turned out to be okay i want a refund hey look they can't all be horrible

02:44:53.360 abominations okay uh thank you ad really appreciate the message thank you so much uh spyro thank you for

02:45:00.140 becoming a member six pack chad donated 19 and 99 cents goose you conducted yourself better than the

02:45:08.440 vast majority of the people who appear props to you andrew's black ex-wife would approve it's true

02:45:15.360 wicked wally donated brian you might like to know the term vile strumpet is used repeatedly to address

02:45:23.640 a queen in the new elden ring expansion i'll hand it to my good pal andrew to cope about how the game

02:45:30.100 is too hard shut up wally shut up wally thank you wally appreciate it i actually heard the term

02:45:35.180 strumpet in this tv show uh the tutors and his uh i forgot the guy's name by the way i hear that wicked

02:45:42.940 wally is now a five-time champion on verbal combat really yeah he's doing pretty well hell yeah awesome

02:45:49.420 good job wally lol paladins donated twenty dollars haven't seen any of the show today but i just watched

02:45:58.020 the first few minutes and i assume it's almost over i'm sorry i didn't watch this dumb has get

02:46:04.000 schooled live uh well paladins beaten cheeks donated twenty one dollars andrew i am so glad i taught you

02:46:12.440 well in debate you are my best padorn glad those destiny courses helped you out thank you master

02:46:18.720 thank you master appreciate it thank you cheeks good to see you in the chat man but oh i forgot

02:46:22.780 to mention we are streaming tonight we're doing a little special something a little irl stream tonight

02:46:27.160 donated twenty dollars how is it the same as a donut if you use smoking as an escape you can use

02:46:33.160 donuts that you can eat donuts and they are bad but i think by smoking don't we idolize the substance

02:46:38.640 no idolatry so i i the idolatry would be replacing god me asunders co-donated twenty dollars i'd love

02:46:45.920 to see andrew debate richard dawkins isn't he dead now richard dawkins i'm pretty sure he's still alive

02:46:52.800 are you thinking of christopher hitchens that's too bad oh wow okay huh i mean i mean uh uh yeah yeah

02:46:59.460 no i'd love yeah yeah would you be on evolution that would be really fun i actually have had some

02:47:05.360 interesting people contacting me recently we'll talk after the show about some uh let's see we got

02:47:09.960 jerry and he donated twenty dollars good show tonight boys cheers thank you during he's a big

02:47:15.860 support by the way guys can we get the hats off for brian excellent moderator yeah considering how

02:47:21.160 especially this had a lot to do with brian he really moderated this quite frequency donated twenty

02:47:26.760 dollars andrew i'm fairly certain the term you were referring to his confirmation bias

02:47:32.480 not affirmation bias thanks for the show no i think i was talking about affirmation bias

02:47:38.340 specifically honestly lund donated twenty dollars thank you much love great convo thank you for the

02:47:44.620 amazing content hey appreciate the support thank you so much lund lund are you swedish or something

02:47:50.120 uh we have shred face andrew what do you think of husbands that push their wives to the brink of

02:47:54.580 suicide with verbal and manipulative abuse yeah so what you're looking at there is the same idea that

02:47:59.860 we agreed upon which is that this does not comport with reason in our standard for what reason is is

02:48:05.520 sin uh coming from the idea of the lowe and the nature of god and jesus christ the holy trinity

02:48:13.200 so uh no that would be bad right that would be bad to push your wife to the brink of suicide

02:48:19.200 verbal manipulative abuse that would be bad nobody would ever disagree that that was bad

02:48:23.500 that's not even we weren't even in that universe of talking about that so and then last super chat

02:48:30.240 darian murphy the reason andrew's approach of destroying the secular worldview through secular

02:48:33.760 means before sharing the gospel can be found in one corinthians 2 14 uh thank you darian murphy for

02:48:40.060 the uh super chat really appreciate it guys okay that's uh oh we have another one from sean sean

02:48:45.240 thank you man sean love both your shows wish you all the best and god bless see are you talking about

02:48:49.780 the cruise cruisable the cruisable the cruisable thank you sean appreciate all the uh support man

02:48:56.220 thank you so much for the uh by the way super chat sweatshirt pretty nice sweatshirt i like the

02:49:00.000 sweatshirt man it's pretty nice i brought one for brian i brought one for brian oh i did by the way

02:49:04.920 andrew claims he lost his whatever cup i mean just be honest andrew you just want a second cup

02:49:13.260 i wanted to say rachel we'll give it to you we'll give it to you could we keep the continuity of

02:49:20.880 these crazy irl debates if he shows you his ass like desirate what okay thank you jim appreciate

02:49:33.720 it man maddis rye chair donated twenty dollars long time watcher first time tts this was great

02:49:42.440 bricks and please have more male guests yeah i thought it was very good actually about a month ago

02:49:47.460 andrew uh we did a two v two debate although i didn't say much that you did yeah you did but

02:49:55.040 i said two v two with those two guys yeah the two guys that was great that was that was a great if

02:49:59.520 you like this one then you'll certainly like that one it was about a month ago uh just look under the

02:50:04.140 live tab uh andrew wilson me versus two male feminists uh been a lot of viral clips going from

02:50:10.280 that that was a brutal slugfest debate too so that's for those of you who haven't seen it go watch it

02:50:15.740 say so nz donated twenty dollars would love to see andrew debate someone intelligent i don't know

02:50:22.880 if he is a good debater or not because honestly i have never seen him debate someone intelligent and

02:50:28.240 have watched every single one well who the fuck are all these intelligent people how are the best

02:50:32.820 left-wing debaters not intelligent just like it's just like nobody andrew debates is intelligent which

02:50:38.560 either tells me that maybe people are way stupider than than i thought or i'm way smarter than i think

02:50:44.640 i don't know it's like also like this this are you familiar with the term pub stomp you've never

02:50:51.000 heard pub stomping so pub stomping is like in a video game term where you know how they'll be

02:50:56.680 matchmaking where as you like kind of uh rank up in the game it'll start uh matching you with people

02:51:03.700 of similar skill yeah so what a pub stomp would be is like you essentially recreate your account

02:51:08.840 you still have the same skill but you're going to get matched with newbies and you just go in there

02:51:13.720 and stomp them pub stomp so we have an open invitation we've posted on twitter we've posted

02:51:20.160 in streams of if you're competent you want to come on and debate we'll have you it's not like

02:51:25.880 in fact the debates where the your opponents give you pushback i love are better yeah so it's not like

02:51:32.880 we just want to pub stomp people it's just we find people perhaps hesitant to come on and debate

02:51:40.120 andrew because of his uh he's gonna spank him anyways i don't i don't know you can find debates

02:51:47.160 with some of the most prolific of the at least internet personalities and i'm aware of uh right

02:51:52.420 on the crucible.video and uh we have had great debates on whatever and by the way i just want

02:51:57.460 to point this out that some of what you consider to be the like smarter smarter leftist debaters many

02:52:03.920 times the kind of like poli sci graduate uh psychology graduate uh only fans girls often

02:52:11.120 they give better debates than some of these kind of like prolific personalities so make of that what

02:52:17.220 you will and um i'm trying to think what was the other thing here uh oh i'll just read the chat no i

02:52:25.400 fixed it from all the spells so bricks and just lose weight oh thank you man working on it it's

02:52:30.400 in the works we have uh silent zero please bring jim bob and andrew on a 2v2 on evolution yeah that

02:52:37.560 would be a lot of fun yeah definitely down for that and uh sean thank you for that uh jim bob said he

02:52:41.760 would definitely come out to santa barbara to do a 2v2 i'd like did you get uh parker and dean the two

02:52:47.440 of them to come down against me and jim bob be hilarious well we so we have some uh we have some

02:52:53.060 debates scheduled in the coming uh coming week or so uh i'm speaking with parker i'll talk to you

02:53:00.020 after the show about about that but uh we i would like to get you uh parker's very sharp

02:53:06.400 parker's very sure you say so well okay i mean i i thought you did quite well against charlie

02:53:12.040 charlie's not a debater fair enough i've tangled with parker before he just didn't know it was me

02:53:16.680 it wasn't um it wasn't great for parker and we have this coming through

02:53:21.620 oh uh say so nz come on look at this guy today he's maybe 80 iq on his best day destiny's even

02:53:28.520 lower debating only fans girls and these leftist porn stars and twitch streamers like destiny is not

02:53:32.980 some big win well who like was matt dillahunty like who who we'll host it i'm hosting it i don't so

02:53:42.540 anyways um let's see i think we're all caught up about you you should come in and do a debate and

02:53:47.720 watch you like petrified on the other seat let's see what else do we have here uh oh we are doing

02:53:53.740 a irl stream tonight that should be live at about 10 p.m pacific uh are you coming for that andrew or

02:54:00.720 we'll talk after the show and see we'll figure out in any case we are doing an irl stream we've been

02:54:06.440 doing this new format these irl streams on the street uh madison's kind of been uh taking the

02:54:11.780 charge on those i have the link for that in the description we're going to do a redirect to that

02:54:16.860 so you guys can be sure to tune in i think that's it for the if for all the tts's i don't see any

02:54:22.420 other supers that came in so uh i guess final thing guys twitch.tv slash whatever go to twitch.tv

02:54:30.100 slash whatever drops a follow and a prime sub if you have one and guys it's been seven minutes since

02:54:36.800 we last got a prime if you're watching over there on twitch drops a follow if you have a prime sub

02:54:40.300 available maybe just check and see if you can drop us one it's a quick free easy way to support the

02:54:44.320 show every single uh every single month we have our discord discord.gg slash whatever where we post

02:54:51.100 uh a lot of cool stuff we post some bts stuff uh this crazy guy's been messing with our irl streams

02:54:59.440 uh so be sure to check out the the bts tab over on our discord discord.gg slash whatever

02:55:04.820 and also debate university final shout out on this guys go to debate university.com get the course

02:55:11.940 verbal combat uh it's uh if you want to learn how to become a master debater you've got to uh be sure

02:55:18.780 to check out the course and uh yeah guys so oh could you click the link for it the on the yeah

02:55:26.680 debate university.com guys debate university.com if you want to check that out

02:55:30.740 all right uh i'm pretty sure that's closing statement oh did did we not do the closing

02:55:35.600 statement i you started no we did no i think we did yeah we did you did right i feel like you said

02:55:41.700 he was going to start and i don't feel like i got to finish because we jumped into a question on

02:55:44.820 swearing no i think i went through gave you a whole a whole bunch of like uh compliments feedback and

02:55:50.460 then yeah i think you did do yours okay if if you want to add a final point yeah sure oh yeah uh the

02:55:54.780 title said i was what angry angry boyfriend hold on let me all my computer just turned off it

02:56:01.360 actually did by the way white massage no no no well you are white but it was going to say white

02:56:06.320 night okay yeah i haven't i think that's fair i think that that's a fair characterization yeah it's

02:56:11.100 a fair characterization also angry boyfriend white knight yep male feminine male feminist i'm male but

02:56:15.880 i'm not a feminist only the first two waves okay well then that's feminism no the third wave is still

02:56:21.520 a feminist the third wave took him out of the home yeah lol paladin's donated twenty dollars

02:56:26.460 left winger that i'd like to see but would probably never happen would be jordan peterson oh yeah that

02:56:32.340 would be so close to being smart but held back by his cultural indoctrination i've reached out a

02:56:38.300 couple times to mikaela and jordan i have not uh i'd love to have them on just i think mikaela would

02:56:43.080 come on do one yeah um but haven't been able to uh i've gone back and forth with her a bunch of times

02:56:49.360 on eggs oh okay um yeah the title the the whole reason hey we gotta have good titles we gotta have

02:56:56.860 good titles you know it's it's good for clicks but um the whole reason behind my you seem to

02:57:01.000 land said okay sorry go ahead go ahead i don't i didn't mean to interrupt you go ahead the whole

02:57:05.720 reason like i was saying was with nicolet and with the other situations was presenting christ

02:57:10.360 and so um i'd be remiss if i didn't say very quickly christ came to save sinners of whom i am chief

02:57:15.920 and most importantly the bible says that he's pleading on our behalf actually through us be

02:57:21.160 reconciled to christ you will have to give an account for all of the actions all of the thoughts

02:57:25.620 all of the intentions of the heart that you have done and short of christ you will fall short and

02:57:30.180 that's the message and that's the gospel and it will change your life because it's changed mine and

02:57:33.360 jesus is alive and he's still saving people today all right okay cool well we're gonna wrap up

02:57:39.380 the show there i want to thank both of you so much for uh coming and doing this debate it was uh great

02:57:45.760 to have you guys in the studio and as i thought it was a wonderful debate so guys we are doing an

02:57:50.680 irl stream later tonight we'll be live 10 p.m pacific with that my laptop just died so i don't have my

02:57:58.100 notes here but uh i do want to uh say thank you guys so much for watching thank you to everybody who

02:58:04.140 so generously supported the chat if you guys can like the video on the way out it would uh really

02:58:09.240 just i guess helps us out in the algorithm really appreciate all the support again we uh have andrew

02:58:15.480 in studio for dating talks the next week or two we've got debates scheduled so stay tuned for another

02:58:21.520 great one to two weeks of uh some what what should be jake rattlesnake will be here too jake will be

02:58:27.380 here too so that's the first time in person for the two of us gonna be great yeah so we got some great

02:58:32.240 content coming up for you guys thank you guys so much for watching tonight i hope you guys have

02:58:36.640 a great night tune in to the irl stream tonight 10 p.m pacific 07's in the chat i hope you guys have

02:58:42.420 a great night and we'll see you later tonight good night guys

Andrew Wilson vs. ANGRY Boyfriend Male Feminist White Knight ｜ Whatever Debates #10

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