For The PERFECT Man, She WILL NOT Take His Last Name⧸Quit Her Job？! Jay Dyer! JB! ｜ Dating Talk #242
Episode Stats
Length
7 hours and 50 minutes
Words per Minute
197.22122
Hate Speech Sentences
440
Summary
In this episode of Whatever Dating Talk, we have a guest on the show who is a radical feminist and a trailblazer in the movement to end labiaplasties in the United States. We also talk about a new crypto-dividend option, and we introduce ourselves.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Welcome to the whatever dating talk podcast where we try to make sense of the, man you
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guys totally butchered that, but okay, where we try to make sense of the modern dating
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hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California. A few
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quick announcements. This podcast is viewer supported heavy YouTube demonetization. So
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text to speech message, $200 and up triggers TTS. TTS is via stream labs only. We do have a slight
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stream and moderation delay with the TTS. So just be aware of that. You can mute a microphone, pop a ball
00:01:42.100
of champagne. And if you're a real baller, a real G, we have some crypto options. You can pop a ball of
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free, easy way to support the show every single month. We got merch shop.
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Dot whatever. Dot com. Wow. And none of them are loading. Good job. Refresh that page. There's
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no way that's accurate. Hit F5 on the keyboard. That will refresh it. There it is. By the way,
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we're selling, selling the nineties cups. Got limited supply. They don't even make these things
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anymore. Uh, they, they don't, they, uh, Solo, the company, Dart Solo, discontinued this in
00:03:03.800
2022. You can't buy these anymore. We have a limited supply. I've got like one or two sleeves
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left. So if you want shop.whatever.com and I'll also have, uh, maybe we'll sign it too. Who knows?
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Okay. Oh, and if you buy something during the show, Streamlabs is going to show it and we'll
00:03:20.700
give you a shout out. Follow us on Instagram at whatever. Anyone, women who want to be on the show,
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DM us at whatever. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter, Brian Atlas X. I changed it.
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Check out my nonprofit movement, Big Labia Matter or BLM for short. It's really the pressing issue of our
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time. 10,000 labiaplasties a year in the United States. Absolute tragedy. Nobody else besides me
00:03:40.000
is advocating for this. I'm a real, uh, feminist one might say. I, I'm a, I am a radical feminist and
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a, I'm a trailblazer ground. I'm the vanguard of this movement. Anyways, um, if you can't catch the
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full shows, we have clips channels. Link is in the description, discord, discord.gg slash whatever.
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Post our stream schedule behind the scenes. Hey, mail a bunch of other stuff. Disclaimer,
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the views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever channel. With
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that said, without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves. So please
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tell us your name, age, occupation, where you're from, and education. Go ahead.
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I'm Hyson. I'm 28 and I'm from Ohio and I'm a painter. I'm an artist.
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Painter. Okay. And any education, college, anything like that?
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Okay. Uh, pastel, what's your medium or whatever it's called?
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Dope. Uh, have you ever done any sort of, do you do like content creation or anything like
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Sometimes, um, I'm not really on social media that hard when it comes to that. I do like
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As your, like, as your occupation or just a hobby?
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It started because I wanted to do tattoo art and then I kind of didn't want to sit there
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for eight hours and you can't erase it. So, at least this way you can kind of paint over
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I, I model sometimes, but just like avant-garde modeling. So, like, I don't know, nothing specific,
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I do. I sell, like, uh, I can do one for, like, $1,200.
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Okay. So, that's your, you don't have any other income stream?
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Oh, that's you. Okay. So, somebody else just, like, broke up a week ago.
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So, okay. All right. So, you were, like, living with him, and he was?
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I've worked on, like, Melrose before and stuff.
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Okay. And how, how long has painting been your full-time career or job?
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Uh, seriously, over the last two years, but other than that, um, it was just kind of a hobby. It's still a hobby.
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Uh, yeah, my name is Kyla Turner. You can find me online at NotSoErditeEverywhere. I'm 31. My job is this. I do content creation full-time, and by content creation, I realize the space that I'm in, I mean, like, political commentary, um, and kind of socio-political commentary.
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Uh, I am from, where am I from? I live in Tampa area now, but I'm originally from Canada, and my education, I've got a honors undergrad in psychology and a degree in psychometrics, a graduate diploma.
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All right. And you said you're from Canada originally?
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Okay, got it. And you're, but now you're living in Florida?
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Um, my name is Lexi. I'm 21, about to be 22. Um, I live in Westminster, California, and I work in a baking studio.
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All right. Uh, any college or anything like that?
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Just high school. Okay. And you work in a baking studio?
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Okay. Gotcha. All right. Welcome. What about you?
00:07:21.120
Um, hi, I'm Sophia. I'm 24. I do social media and OnlyFans, OnlyFans mostly. And I live in L.A., but originally from Washington State.
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And I also graduated high school early, no college.
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No college. And, uh, how long have you been in Los Angeles?
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Did you move to Los Angeles to kind of, uh, for professional or career purposes?
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After high school, I went to Hawaii. Then San Diego. Now I'm in L.A.
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I was driving back and forth between San Diego and L.A. constantly, so I moved up here.
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I have a degree in anthropology from the University of Central Florida.
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And for a living, I'm an EMT and a little bit of an actress.
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And, uh, are you in the, I think maybe I'm thinking of somebody else.
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Um, I majored in my bachelor's in anthropology with a minor in linguistics.
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I went to, um, Berkeley College of Music for a bachelor's in music.
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You said you do your own, like, you write your own music?
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From time to time, something that's always just crossing my mind.
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We can deny energies that's always feeling aligned.
00:10:09.340
It just makes me wonder why I'm a devil in disguise and you don't mind.
00:10:27.460
Wait, so for, uh, in education, you said you went to Berklee School of Music?
00:10:35.620
Just keep an eye on mics for me, because I can't really, if somebody just shouted out
00:10:43.880
You can find my comics at Made by Jim Bob on Instagram.
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I'm also a live streamer at Made by Jim Bob at YouTube.
00:11:00.560
I host the Alex Jones Show for the last five years.
00:11:11.700
I did undergrad in philosophy, uh, in Kentucky, and then my grad work is psychological warfare
00:11:24.240
Is that, um, was your master's of arts in English?
00:11:32.000
Yeah, my, my focus in grad work was on psychological warfare and media.
00:11:36.320
What, and, um, so are you an expert in psychological warfare?
00:11:40.000
I don't know about expert, but you're, you've studied it.
00:11:50.820
Um, well, I studied, I studied the way that James Bond was used in the cold war as a symbol
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for Western, like geopolitics, Western liberal economic theory.
00:12:03.640
So you can use fictional characters as a way to do a culture war.
00:12:17.580
Do you think like, um, like Titanic was psychological warfare?
00:12:22.720
Um, sometimes the blockbusters are, but I don't think Titanic.
00:12:29.980
Uh, well, NATO said they wanted to use Taylor Swift for psyops.
00:12:38.980
Reagan put money into military recruitment using Top Gun.
00:12:46.540
Um, if you, if you had that, maybe not the number one, if you had to point to a film
00:12:50.060
that, that was used as psychological warfare, what, what do you think it would be?
00:12:55.900
What I focused on was the James Bond franchise as a whole.
00:13:08.260
So what's everybody's current relationship status?
00:13:11.360
If you're single, how long have you been single?
00:13:13.260
And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in?
00:13:17.140
Um, I've been single since December and the longest relationship that I've been in is
00:13:29.640
Was, uh, that the one that ended six months ago?
00:13:40.080
And then have you been, uh, has there been a rebound?
00:13:45.000
You've been just totally single for six months?
00:13:51.920
Uh, married for seven years, dated for a year and a half before that.
00:14:12.340
Yeah, but they were, I don't think any of them were other years.
00:14:20.960
We both worked at a nonprofit high risk kids youth camp.
00:14:31.460
Um, as of, I guess, timeline's a little confusing.
00:14:46.580
But, um, we both entered the relationship as like spiritual.
00:15:00.000
And then we kind of had a companionship for like a year and a half.
00:15:07.400
So, we've like still been in contact with each other, but we're not really romantically
00:15:20.180
But it was just over some things we have to figure out still.
00:15:25.740
Um, it's probably been like a month, I would say.
00:15:44.700
I had someone come move in with me temporarily.
00:15:49.660
But you, ever since the, uh, I guess the breakup four months, or in February, there's not been any.
00:16:07.800
The last year and a half was kind of what I'm getting at.
00:16:21.140
So, when you first met, you guys were spiritual.
00:16:22.940
Then you got more in touch with your Christianity.
00:16:31.280
So, we were really respectful of each other's religions.
00:16:34.680
But I think the hope was maybe one of us would.
00:16:47.560
And you said, though, since you guys have broken up, you have been dating other people?
00:16:52.720
I've gone on some dates and talked to a few people.
00:17:21.280
Well, it's kind of, a lot of them have been kind of like, almost, meeting a lot of men
00:17:27.820
who are like, kind of want to be like passenger princess.
00:17:33.460
And they've also, like, two of them were like shorter than I thought they would be.
00:17:43.620
And I'm okay with like my height, but it was like shorter than me.
00:18:00.920
Can I just have you scoot your microphone that way?
00:18:25.720
We tend to argue a little bit, but we just didn't have the same preferences.
00:18:37.660
I think I just wanted more than what I was receiving.
00:18:42.180
So, you, wait, you had a high sex drive and he had a low sex drive?
00:18:57.620
Like it's like, and he just wasn't comfortable with that.
00:19:03.940
Wait, you, so there, well, there's, so there's different levels of rough.
00:19:07.560
If you're saying there's rough, then there's beat the shit out of you rough.
00:19:11.940
I'm talking like a cute little black guy rough.
00:19:35.500
Like a little, like, you know, a little choke, like lots of choking, a little slap, but maybe
00:19:45.280
No, I wanted that done to me and he wasn't comfortable, which, hey, I, I totally get it.
00:19:50.580
Like that can, you know, turn into other things, but I like, I don't know.
00:19:57.760
I mean, you can't live your life forever, not doing what you want to do.
00:20:03.560
So essentially he just wasn't willing to do that.
00:20:30.300
You know, look, I guess people have their, you know, maybe we'll, you know what, I want
00:20:40.700
Well, not into that, but I mean, I want to discuss it.
00:20:43.440
Uh, let's, so are, are you, uh, is this like a BDSM thing or you just enjoy rough?
00:20:51.500
I wouldn't say I put like a BDSM, BDSM label on it.
00:21:07.640
And, uh, this was your longest or no, what, what was your longest relationship?
00:21:18.520
Um, I'm currently engaged and it's long distance and, uh, we've been together for about two
00:21:36.000
When we first met, I was actually working at a prison in Florida and she was working at
00:21:55.120
Engaged for, and you've been seeing each other for two years.
00:21:59.060
A little over two years, but yeah, she currently lives in Washington DC and I live in LA.
00:22:06.720
I know, but like, no, we, we fly out and see each other like every month.
00:22:10.340
So it's like, if it's long distance, but like, honestly, not really since we see each
00:22:14.260
other for like six or seven days a month out of the month.
00:22:21.000
Um, and is this, is this your longest relationship?
00:22:34.300
I'm currently single and not counting situationships.
00:22:39.140
It's been about like six years, I think, since I've been in a committed relationship.
00:22:44.600
There were are, there have been some situationships.
00:22:53.260
Uh, how many in the past six years that you've been single, how many situationships have you
00:23:03.140
I would say too many people that just, I, um, I mean, I would say maybe like over 10,
00:23:25.800
No, I just got out of one a couple of months ago.
00:24:00.540
Uh, let's get some W's for all the mothers in the chat.
00:24:09.840
Uh, married for five years and we dated for about four before that.
00:24:13.700
So I've been with Jamie for the past nine years.
00:24:26.040
Could you imagine if I announced my pregnancy like right now?
00:24:33.540
Give us the exclusive when you are pregnant, I guess.
00:24:47.360
Oh, this is related to the debate from yesterday.
00:24:55.800
Jews were patrilineal until around 29 to 4 BCE.
00:25:00.160
The change was made by Hallel and the Sanhedrin.
00:25:13.280
He's basically saying there was a time when Jewish people were patrilineal and then like
00:25:17.420
basically for the rest of their history, they've been matrilineal.
00:25:20.260
So I'm not really sure why that's a correction, but thanks, buddy.
00:25:39.000
If you want to get a message in, it's going to be $100.
00:25:45.940
Actually, before we jump into the show notes, I wanted to touch back on that thing really
00:25:51.040
Is it, so Jay, are you, you're an Orthodox Christian?
00:25:55.320
Is it okay to do that shit if you're a Christian or especially an Orthodox Christian?
00:26:08.680
There's room for, you know, things between a husband and a wife.
00:26:14.060
I don't know that there's an easy, hard set line as to what that is that maybe a husband
00:26:20.720
But I do think that there might be a danger in this situation.
00:26:24.640
I'm not saying this about you, but like there could be a situation where like if you requested
00:26:30.120
that, like that could put the dude in a legal situation.
00:26:34.780
Like not that you would necessarily do that, but you might say, oh, look, you know, if you
00:26:42.260
So it's just like, I think there's a lot of reasons and ways why it's just not safe for
00:26:50.940
Um, and I would say that, yeah, like from a religious perspective, it's odd.
00:26:59.480
I would add that, uh, if that type of thing continued, let's say you got married and you
00:27:04.520
had children, it would certainly be confusing for the child if they were to find out the
00:27:14.800
It might actually produce a scenario where the children end up seeking people to hurt
00:27:25.480
Um, I feel like there's a way to work around that, um, as in maybe have like a boundary and
00:27:32.460
that's something you probably discuss with your partners.
00:27:34.400
Like, Hey, as long as it's in an area that's concealable, like under the collarbones, it's
00:27:39.020
fair game, but like your face, something that you have to use and see every single day, maybe
00:27:45.460
It doesn't necessarily mean like punch me in my face, you know?
00:27:49.120
I mean, then I would say that that's actually then practicing sort of some level of deception
00:27:54.860
and withhold, which is another practice that might be into question.
00:27:58.480
Like not telling your kids your kinks is the deception?
00:28:01.640
Well, I mean, if you're, if you're, it doesn't change the fact that your husband or the father,
00:28:07.180
you know, your father is harming what's definitionally harming your, your mother.
00:28:11.560
Or do you, would you though, like for other kinks, cause this is obviously like a pretty
00:28:15.180
extreme kink, what kinks are allowed in Eastern Orthodox?
00:28:18.740
I wouldn't know what's considered a kink and what's considered just like anything that's
00:28:23.480
like creative or vanilla sex is going to be like a kink.
00:28:25.880
So like, can you piss on each other in Eastern Orthodox?
00:28:30.620
No, uh, I would say that would be a perversion.
00:28:36.060
I'm not, I'm not sure what a priest, I've never had that conversation.
00:28:40.240
Do you have to tell your kids about it or are you being deceptive to your kids if you
00:28:43.240
don't tell them about your kink practice with your...
00:28:45.580
Well, I mean, you don't have to be explicit with what's considered sexuality, but what's
00:28:51.000
considered sexuality would still have a standard underneath a Christian view.
00:28:54.580
And then, uh, what's considered a perversion would also have that, but outside of Christianity,
00:29:02.900
Outside of, so non-Christians can't do perverse things or...
00:29:05.700
Well, they can do it, but they don't have, I'm saying their worldview, they can't tell
00:29:09.360
you what's perverse, what's proper, what's normal.
00:29:14.520
If you feel something from something and you feel good from someone doing something otherwise,
00:29:19.200
uh, let's say perverse in another paradigm, you can't really say it's wrong or, or right
00:29:27.980
Oh, you're saying secular people can't like weigh in on what it's...
00:29:29.940
Yeah, they can't really, uh, there's no standard there.
00:29:33.420
I guess I'm not really thinking about children when I'm doing this.
00:29:36.900
I don't really have like a future of having children.
00:29:43.640
I think maybe if I did mature a little, grow up a little, maybe it wouldn't be a thing,
00:29:55.040
Do you think you'll want kids when you get older?
00:29:59.500
That's still very young, but you know, women only have a period of time where they can really
00:30:11.460
So who's going to take care of you later on in life?
00:30:16.960
I don't really think about the future that way, I guess.
00:30:20.620
Um, I feel like that's kind of like, I'm, I'm trying to find the words.
00:30:26.060
Um, I feel like that's a burden that the children didn't ask for.
00:30:30.580
You know, you shouldn't have kids just because you want somebody to take care of you in your
00:30:38.400
Um, and I'm not implying that I'm just saying that in general, um, I think there should
00:30:42.980
be that, that shouldn't even be an expectation.
00:30:45.820
Is it nice to have kids that, that take care of you when you're old?
00:30:49.980
That'd be nice, but that's not an expectation that should be set forth.
00:30:57.620
And also, I don't think the reasoning, uh, using the reason, I don't think, uh, that's
00:31:04.360
Well, from that logic, a kid didn't ask to be born or to be, uh, to have the burden of
00:31:10.040
learning a language properly, schooling, uh, everything else you could put under that
00:31:16.320
I don't think, uh, people actually, uh, have a say in a lot of times of what their burden
00:31:22.400
And, and just to respond to that is, um, I like, for example, I do plan on taking care
00:31:30.260
Um, I drop off old people, you know, to their facilities all the time.
00:31:33.900
And sometimes I look at their ages and I'm like, wow, my mom's only like six years younger
00:31:38.580
And these people are like completely bedridden.
00:31:40.860
And so, um, I do, I do think like I am going to take care of my mom, but just sometimes
00:31:48.220
shit hits the fan and you don't have that great relationship with your parents or maybe
00:31:53.240
they're crappy parents and you feel like you owe them nothing.
00:31:56.260
And I, and I know that that can lead into like, well, they gave you life, they raised
00:32:05.520
Like there could be exceptions, but you wouldn't make the exceptions, the universal rule because
00:32:10.640
So I think most people's parents do provide for them.
00:32:14.500
And the expectation is that you would then return the favor when they get older, but
00:32:19.080
there could be toxic people who are completely, you know, dangerous or something.
00:32:24.340
And you mentioned like duty, um, a duty according to whom, I guess.
00:32:28.800
Like for me, it's like, I would do it because growing up, it's like my life story growing
00:32:34.660
My mom was a janitor for three different things.
00:32:39.500
Um, I saw my dad like every third weekend, but my mom worked basically on top of child
00:32:45.000
support, worked three jobs as a janitor for a college, a school and a church.
00:32:49.020
And she put a lot of expectation for me to go to school.
00:32:52.920
And that's why, like, for example, I joined the military so that I can get my school paid
00:32:56.760
for because I didn't want to burden my mom with probably having to pick a fourth or fifth
00:33:02.400
And so to me, it's like genuine, like, okay, I will take care of you because you've, you've
00:33:09.520
And so I guess to circle back, long story shortcake, um, I guess what do you, what do
00:33:21.920
Well, I mean, I, I, I get my duties from an orthodox Christian paradigm.
00:33:27.060
I would say that absent that, um, uh, just like other standards, I don't think, I don't
00:33:33.540
think anyone has a duty outside of that worldview.
00:33:37.920
Um, for you, I mean, it's, yeah, I have a similar take as Jim Bob.
00:33:42.180
I mean, there are duties that would be informed by the worldview that you have, your upbringing
00:33:48.060
And I mean, again, I think even if you have bad parents, you still probably want to return
00:33:55.700
I had a absentee dad, but I would still take care of my dad.
00:34:03.380
But I mean, I think this is just an expectation that most civilizations, most cultures had until
00:34:10.780
we got to modernity where you can kind of be this individual with no ties, no boundaries,
00:34:19.320
So we're living this weird experiment that it's, it's a historical, it's weird.
00:34:24.360
So even the current family structure, usually it's our, at least Jay and I are, uh, share
00:34:30.640
a worldview where you kind of defend the family and it's in a nuclear sense, but then you go,
00:34:38.640
If you really think about it comparatively to other cultures or, or historically where
00:34:45.780
And now you have this unit and now inside the unit, now you have even more individual units.
00:34:51.340
And I think when, when he says modernity, like individualism, uh, materialism, uh, pursuing
00:34:57.460
wants and desires above all things, go live your life, do what you want to do.
00:35:01.500
People are kind of drawn into a mindset, basically inherit a mindset that, uh, that justifies just
00:35:11.220
And this is where you get into these issues of like, well, what's, is there any obligation
00:35:17.180
Um, at this point, um, it's actually hard to see, uh, for a lot of people that, that there's
00:35:23.920
something beyond their own life and what they want.
00:35:29.880
I'm super, are you guys on pretty opposed to capitalism?
00:35:35.080
I mean, that's like an economic system to a degree.
00:35:37.420
Like, is there, what, what economic system do you guys prefer?
00:35:40.580
Like communism, like high regulation of markets?
00:35:43.880
I think capitalism, um, it can be kind of like a tool.
00:35:52.240
I think capitalism itself, uh, and what it produces without any sort of, um, ethical paradigm
00:36:01.300
So like the reason I'm asking is you talked about like individualism and whatnot, which
00:36:04.880
is very, in many ways, what drives a lot of capitalism, right?
00:36:08.100
It's like individual want and whims and materialism is pretty central to, especially our modern
00:36:16.320
Uh, it's not the opposition to capitalism itself.
00:36:19.840
Like I said, you can oppose a number of things if it, if it doesn't have a guiding ethical
00:36:25.900
So for instance, I'm not opposed to people using their God given gifts in exchange for
00:36:33.100
That's just, uh, that's like a, an exchange of your will and your, and your labor.
00:36:38.080
Uh, if that's inside of a system you call capitalistic, um, then fine.
00:36:42.720
But I think Jay will add that the complexity and the implications of capitalism at a larger
00:36:48.440
scale is, uh, beyond what most people think, consider, uh, favorable.
00:36:56.900
So you guys would be for like a decent amount of government regulation to ensure like some
00:37:01.900
level of ethical principle maintained by the capitalist structure.
00:37:04.660
So you guys kind of want that government oversight.
00:37:08.440
There's going to be some degree of that, right?
00:37:09.180
Because I mean, you have tariffs, um, tariffs are a way to protect the nation state and the
00:37:17.520
So to get rid of, I didn't say it was the only purpose, I said it's a purpose.
00:37:20.840
So you don't have to correct that because it was just a sentence.
00:37:23.560
Um, you don't have to let me know cause I know what I'm talking about.
00:37:27.160
You asked me a question, I'm going to finish it.
00:37:30.060
So tariffs protect the workers of that nation and monarchies, which were patriarchy.
00:37:38.440
The ones in Western civilization are patriarchal.
00:37:39.960
Well, there's lots of things that can be patriarchal.
00:37:41.440
They were in Western civilization, just like ancient Israel, they were patriarchal.
00:37:47.380
So there's has to be some degree of structure and limitation to the, uh, to the economy.
00:37:58.020
No, that's where that's, that's the purpose of guilds and tariffs is somewhere.
00:38:05.440
The original purpose of unions was yes, to guard against monopoly capitalism.
00:38:09.720
So to answer your question, monopoly capitalism, yes, is a problem, but the basic principles
00:38:15.180
of like Austrian economics, free market, I have a Bitcoin shirt.
00:38:26.600
Interesting how conversations will, uh, meander their way to different things.
00:38:30.000
Um, getting into the pre-show notes, why don't we start with, I'll start with Sophia.
00:38:35.040
So you said your ex-boyfriend, is this the one you just broke up with or a different one?
00:38:39.420
Ex-boyfriend scammed you, scammed you in many ways.
00:38:43.400
He made fake stalking emails to get you to move to San Diego with him.
00:38:47.740
Then he got you into OnlyFans and ultimately pimped you out on OnlyFans and took almost all
00:38:55.620
He put an Amex, put an Amex card under your name.
00:38:59.280
Uh, he stole your social security number, spent over $20,000, left you in debt, hacked
00:39:03.780
all your socials and OnlyFans and continues to do it to every other girl he deals with.
00:39:14.600
But, um, yeah, I mean, just from the beginning, the whole stalking emails, I was living in Hawaii
00:39:21.000
on my own, met him on Hinge when he was visiting Hawaii.
00:39:25.380
Um, we did long distance for maybe like a month or two.
00:39:29.160
I was 19 at the time, um, or 20, 19 or 20 at the time.
00:39:38.060
Um, and yeah, he sent me a bunch of emails basically saying like, I know where you live.
00:39:46.720
I'm going to come up and, you know, I say you, all, all the things, very scary, very,
00:39:52.780
and it was him the whole time and I knew because after I moved in with him into San Diego and
00:39:59.320
all of that stuff, I went through his computer and saw all of the emails from different fake
00:40:05.060
emails of him emailing me from a number of emails.
00:40:10.440
Um, but that ultimately, ultimately got me to move from Hawaii to San Diego out of fear,
00:40:20.760
Um, but yeah, the whole getting me to do OnlyFans thing, he just said that he knew how to do it.
00:40:25.920
He knew how he was going to get me to make money.
00:40:31.580
Um, but I am saying that he got me to do a lot of things that I wouldn't have done at
00:40:37.720
the age that I was at or where I was at at the time.
00:40:46.260
Like if you say there's a bunch of things I did at the time that I otherwise wouldn't
00:40:52.240
I wouldn't have put my entire body on the internet and done, um, the things that he had me do
00:41:05.300
And I, I'm like, like I said, like, I know there'll be a huge argument over forced and
00:41:14.600
Um, like I said, I was delusional and I was very young and I wasn't sticking up for myself.
00:41:22.260
Um, seeing as how you're not with him now, um, and this is like an honest question that
00:41:31.440
Um, there's no like loaded meaning, um, do you, do you choose to plan on stopping at
00:41:42.360
Like it is what it is, but I'm a whole different person now because of it.
00:41:48.440
So like I said, I wouldn't have done those things when I was 19 and 20, but I did it and
00:41:55.160
Like I didn't stop doing OnlyFans when I left him because like, to be fair, like the money
00:42:03.960
I like doing what I do now and I am doing it to my extent now.
00:42:21.120
He made like, I say he made me get on OnlyFans live because he did.
00:42:33.340
And if I didn't, it would have been a fight more or less.
00:42:39.640
Are you able to share like how much you make on average or?
00:42:48.640
And what's the highest you've ever made in, in a month?
00:42:55.520
Uh, and then you also, in your notes here, you said you wanted to speak on leaving toxic
00:43:00.120
men and how to know you're dating a con artist.
00:43:06.200
He was 38, I think when I met, 37, when I met him, his hinge profile said 30.
00:43:14.700
I can't say, can't say he was pushing, he was maybe five, six.
00:43:26.640
Why did you stay with him for the length that you did?
00:43:32.760
I'm not asking in a judgy way, I'm genuinely curious, like, what, he wasn't the height you
00:43:36.860
wanted, he wasn't the age you wanted, so like, a lot of people hear that.
00:43:40.520
I didn't, I didn't, the, the, I didn't want a certain age, I didn't want a certain height,
00:43:45.440
I'm saying he's a, he, he lies about everything.
00:43:48.660
I think he had said, I mean, even like, I probably, like, this kind of messed up, but
00:43:55.540
like, his teeth and his jaw, like, he had the worst underbite, he had the worst mouth,
00:44:00.900
the worst breath, the worst everything, but he told, he told me that he got into a surfing
00:44:08.080
accident the first day I met him, and that's why his entire mouth was messed up, later finding
00:44:24.420
I mean, the, the, the, the breath is your fault, but.
00:44:32.120
Is anybody else at the table born this way, or, wait, what, how did you say it born that
00:44:39.600
There's, like, a disorder that some people will be born with, or, like, their jaw is
00:44:44.420
Oh, yeah, I mean, well, there's, like, cleft lip, or cleft palate.
00:44:55.520
I have, I was born without a jaw, so this is actually, this is actually a fake jaw.
00:45:00.900
No, I wasn't even talking about jaws, just like anything, whatever.
00:45:04.500
We're going to go to, remind me how to pronounce your name.
00:45:14.640
It says, well-behaved women really make, or, excuse me, rarely make history.
00:45:30.240
No, I haven't, so I guess I'm doing it all wrong.
00:45:35.400
It was my very first one, and I really liked Marilyn Monroe.
00:45:38.760
So, cliche, Pinterest, one thing led to another.
00:45:43.280
I wonder if a woman's actually ever in the history quoted that, or has like that tattoo,
00:45:51.420
Like, it's kind of this justification women will use, who will never make history, to act
00:46:00.660
Like, just to tilt the term, make history, across time, it's actually well-behaved women
00:46:07.960
who make society's work, and they actually are the ones who make history.
00:46:28.120
I'm just saying that, like, I'm thinking we're going to talk about this later down the line.
00:46:31.920
And that's why I was just like, okay, like, we'll let you think that for a while.
00:46:40.680
I'm just saying that, like, oh, we'll discuss it in a bit.
00:46:52.620
I was dating a guy at the time, and I was doing, like, henna.
00:46:56.200
And I didn't have any tattoos, and he was like, you should just get a tattoo.
00:47:25.700
Well, did anybody, to Jim Bob's point here, you were saying how, what, women should be
00:47:31.660
I mean, it's a larger statement than just the cliche of, like, follow me, woman.
00:47:36.760
Society is structured, like Jay was pointing to.
00:47:40.020
And so societies are structured hierarchically, and they're structured patriarchically.
00:47:45.160
Even if you pretend they aren't, they just are, functionally.
00:47:48.840
And so if you follow an ordered system called a society, you actually are submissive.
00:47:58.000
By that, like, what, when you're saying submissive, do you mean, like, at a system level?
00:48:02.680
Like, are you talking about, like, women having rights to land ownership?
00:48:09.080
But then we probably want men to be submissive, too.
00:48:12.580
Yeah, men, actually, from a Christian paradigm, women, if a man is not submissive to a higher order, a Christianity God, if he's not within that paradigm, the woman can't really see reflectively why she should be submissive.
00:48:27.240
Yeah, but when you say women be submissive, I think we're assuming that you mean something separate from men, right?
00:48:32.040
So I don't think, like, not murdering is what you mean when you say women should be submissive.
00:48:35.700
I'm just trying to detail, like, when you say women be submissive, what's unique for women?
00:48:43.640
Yeah, I would say duties would be, like, submissive to your duties in a sense.
00:48:53.640
And so men are, because of their duties, because of their biology, because of their nature, they assume these duties are actually informed by their nature.
00:49:01.680
And the women's duties are informed by their nature.
00:49:04.200
It's actually the best way to optimize both natures of the men and women.
00:49:09.380
Yeah, so I guess I'm trying to get the specifics.
00:49:12.160
Like, when you say women should be submissive...
00:49:13.480
I would say, for a society, it's better for a society, largely for the women, to submit to the roles as child bearers and mothers, maybe even in work, to move toward the kinds of work that is aligned with their nature, which they already do, administrative, caretakers, teachers.
00:49:36.080
And so I would say that, from a larger view, that that's a form of submission.
00:49:41.180
An act of rebellion is arguing basically what feminism ends up being, is an argument against reality as it is, and saying, we've got to revolutionize this.
00:49:51.840
And yet, the irony is, they can't do a revolution because they need men, which goes back to exactly my point, descriptively.
00:49:58.380
Yeah, so one thing I was asking, like, should women be able to own land?
00:50:06.820
I actually haven't really thought about whether they should own land.
00:50:10.720
And my immediate response to that is, they can own land, but is anyone else obligated for her to protect the land, aside from her?
00:50:21.880
I'm assuming she'd probably call the police, have, like, security.
00:50:24.340
Are they obligated to show up and protect your land?
00:50:26.300
If somebody trespasses her, yeah, they're obligated to arrest her.
00:50:30.460
Police officers don't have to arrest trespassers?
00:50:36.520
They have no duty to protect your property or your body.
00:50:39.660
Yeah, she could probably get a gun and a dog and stuff like that.
00:50:41.440
Yeah, if she gets a gun and a dog, and we wish her the best with that, she can try to do that.
00:50:47.060
I'm just saying, ultimately, for the most part, women are not going to be able to defend their body, their land, their house, and their own children.
00:50:54.000
Sure, but you're fine with them owning the land.
00:50:58.540
So you at least align with first-wave feminism?
00:51:02.260
No, the philosophy is different than a particular.
00:51:07.300
You can't say, like, you think women should own land?
00:51:12.900
No, but you agree with that element of feminism, right?
00:51:15.340
That wouldn't be feminism, because that existed prior to feminism.
00:51:21.620
They wanted women to be able to own land regardless of things like Americans.
00:51:24.400
Women having a right to life that existed prior to feminism, so that's not feminism in ancient cultures.
00:51:32.980
Sure, but, but that was contrary to what you argued yesterday.
00:51:36.100
So does that mean that you were wrong yesterday?
00:51:37.100
If you're just going to keep interrupting me, I can't respond to you.
00:51:40.700
Does that mean you were wrong yesterday if you say, sure, but?
00:51:43.140
So the important thing that we delineated yesterday is that women could own land, but it was specifically if they were widows who inherited it through some, like, patrilineal inheritance.
00:51:51.860
So if her father willed her land, she could own it, or if her husband died, she could own it.
00:51:56.260
But the idea that women could just go out individually and purchase land didn't really exist until after the suffragette movement, right?
00:52:02.100
That was part of what the suffragettes were advocating for.
00:52:06.420
No, I referenced to you Proverbs 31, which has women also engaging in commerce and even owning their own business.
00:52:13.140
So to own a business, you would also potentially have to own land.
00:52:17.540
They were very much more okay with, like, women doing this.
00:52:20.880
I mean, that's the dissent in terms of how you determine who your people group is.
00:52:25.300
That has nothing to do with the social organization of the society, which you admitted was patriarchal.
00:52:31.660
Economically, in Jewish systems, they would often hand down things to the mother as well, right?
00:52:35.480
That was, like, part of the way to guarantee that the baby was a Jew and that the baby who was inheriting it was a Jew.
00:52:44.640
Like, I just was paying attention to that, like, spat right now.
00:52:50.620
So, like, in the Jewish thing, part of why the matrilineal thing emerged is because, like I said, if a Jewish woman is raped by a Roman officer, the only way to guarantee that that baby has some Jewish line...
00:53:06.160
Essayed by a Roman officer, then the only way to guarantee that that line is Jewish is to know that it came out of her birth canal.
00:53:14.020
Whereas for the fathers, a really big issue that lots of men have today is guarantee that the woman who is his partner is actually having his child versus somebody else.
00:53:23.240
This is why, like, oftentimes inheritance was through mothers.
00:53:28.900
Broadly, but I'm sure there's something specific you want to talk about.
00:53:33.220
The liberite law was, like, the rabbinic law that Jews operated off of.
00:53:35.980
So the liberite law was, like, kind of one of the highest laws of inheritance.
00:53:38.540
It has to do with, if I die, my brother marries my wife.
00:53:43.440
Right, yes, how you have to impregnate the wife.
00:53:46.580
Does that sound like a matrilineal matriarchal society?
00:53:49.620
I didn't say that it was a matriarchal society.
00:53:55.380
And in a society where women own land legally, because that's a legal term, right?
00:54:03.980
The thing that we were talking about, the point that I was making, is that if you're
00:54:08.300
four women owning land, regardless of their relationship to men, they can just, I can
00:54:22.620
When you own something, whether it's property, land, a house, an object, is that a legal term?
00:54:32.240
That you, oh, are you going down the enforcement arm?
00:54:35.540
Yeah, it assumes that the authority is being protected by the government that you-
00:54:39.700
In the case that the property is violated, even if the woman's capable of holding a heavy
00:54:46.040
gun and shooting it accurately, it still goes to a system that decides whether she was just
00:54:52.520
Yeah, men are stronger, if that's where you're wanting to go.
00:54:54.620
It's not just men are stronger, it's that any argument for legal ownership of property,
00:55:00.360
whether it's a house or land or anything else, assumes an enforcement arm that has
00:55:08.280
But that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you think women should be able
00:55:14.380
It's not a point in favor of feminism because it still relies on a patriarchy.
00:55:19.160
Well, it is because the suffragettes were the one that asserted it and that was part
00:55:23.280
So they get the point for it because they're the ones that helped you get legalized.
00:55:26.180
So in any instance that you think is a feminist movement forward, do you agree that anything
00:55:31.280
you could list actually requires a patriarchy to uphold?
00:55:37.280
Sort of, in the way that you're now defining patriarchy as like enforcement arm, sure.
00:55:41.680
It's just that's not how anyone engages with patriarchy.
00:55:42.680
I'm just saying that patriarchy would be men in power.
00:55:46.460
Yeah, but you're talking about men in power in the enforcement arm, not the government system.
00:55:59.320
What's banking, the exchange of banking, fair exchange of monetary notes and shit, without
00:56:09.320
Sure, but this is going back to Donald Trump obviously has more power than like an E5 soldier.
00:56:21.620
Can I, as an individual in a society, just make up money?
00:56:38.660
They're not as capable, but they're lowering the standards.
00:56:40.860
I just don't know what this has to do with, can women own private property?
00:56:47.280
I understand that for you, like, going back to the enforcement arm dialogue tree is like
00:56:51.780
But I'm actually trying to flesh out your ideas about other things because I'm genuinely curious.
00:56:55.340
I understand, but you've got to understand, when we said, yeah, you can own land, you can
00:56:59.440
own stuff, you can participate in the society and the economics, right?
00:57:02.960
You said, that's a, you basically said, so you agree with feminism.
00:57:05.880
No, I'm saying that very clearly that any expression of feminism that you present is
00:57:13.880
actually wholly reliant on something that's not feminist.
00:57:17.660
Sure, that just doesn't invalidate the feminist.
00:57:20.280
Yeah, but that doesn't invalidate the suffragettes.
00:57:22.520
So are you saying that the suffragettes didn't get women's ability to acquire land?
00:57:30.620
I'm not denying people have influence on things.
00:57:33.400
Ultimately, what you're asking is the strong person to say it so, right?
00:57:39.720
That's fair, but you agree with that, at least that suffragette.
00:57:41.940
Yeah, it's an appeal to, it's an appeal to the enforcement arm.
00:57:45.900
As a strong man, you're okay with women owning land and you would protect that right.
00:57:50.340
Yeah, if women own land, if my wife owns some...
00:58:03.800
Yeah, I would say, even myself, if my wife owned land, or we co-owned land, or she already
00:58:12.440
had land or something like this, what I'm pointing to is that, ultimately, the ownership
00:58:18.540
of that, we're both going to rely on an enforcement arm.
00:58:23.380
Yeah, sure, that just has nothing to do with what I was asking you.
00:58:25.720
But I understand, you want to go back to the enforcement arm, you really like that argument.
00:58:28.740
But what's the further logical line that you're asking when you ask about property?
00:58:34.120
All I'm asking you is if you think women should have the right to own land.
00:58:36.900
Because you thought that would back up feminism, right?
00:58:39.160
Nope, because I'm genuinely curious if you guys think women should own land.
00:58:42.860
Do you think that women should be able to open a credit card in their name?
00:58:49.600
Yeah, I think the consequences of that being that women now hold 75% of consumer debt, and
00:58:59.200
I don't think it's a thing that they should be okay with.
00:59:03.000
I think people should generally work against debt, whether they're a man or a woman, maybe
00:59:07.500
I think the burden of debt adds to some stress.
00:59:10.760
I think it could actually add to some instability and things like that.
00:59:16.300
So, and let's say hypothetically women weren't allowed to get a credit card.
00:59:25.940
I'm just saying that, well, credit's relatively new, but that's a whole different conversation
00:59:32.340
You're basically saying that, I'm trying to think, sorry, I'm trying to like phrase the
00:59:41.240
No, no, it's what if a woman like in her own time, like this isn't like a requirement
00:59:47.140
I'm saying on her own time, she did her research and she got a financial literacy class.
00:59:51.720
You're basically saying, well, you can't have it anyway, even if you're more financially
00:59:55.100
literate than other men or than men, because you're a woman is basically where you're going
01:00:01.980
Because you're making a broad statement saying women shouldn't have it because they're
01:00:07.280
So once again, this is like the third time you've argued that the exceptions should make
01:00:13.940
Her exception was a woman who went and studied and got a degree.
01:00:18.880
Women who study economics better than men is an exception.
01:00:33.540
Jay, if you want to talk to me, you have to allow me to talk.
01:00:50.800
Because it's completely normative to assume that multiple women can go and get financial
01:00:55.740
Well, you know, if you're wanting her to stare you in the eyes while arguing, why don't
01:01:09.260
Although, it would be better if you took them off.
01:01:21.500
Isn't an exception something that's paired up against most?
01:01:35.680
Because you're being false analogous right now, right?
01:01:45.660
The analogy here now is between men and women and a comparison line on financial literacy.
01:01:49.980
And so you're saying, well, most women aren't financially literate.
01:01:57.520
So, most men are also not financially literate.
01:02:01.120
I will get there if you, if you, if you, if you don't want to listen and just interrupt
01:02:16.200
Once you're done, once you're done, I'll go back.
01:02:18.900
So, there are, the issue that you're having is that when you're talking about how women
01:02:22.540
are not, most women are not financially literate, men are also not mostly financially literate.
01:02:27.320
So, you need to create a line of credulity beyond financial literacy that makes women
01:02:34.220
exceptionally incapable of having a credit card that men don't have.
01:02:40.500
If you're a line of credulity, you got to let me finish.
01:02:43.240
I'm just going to keep talking until you let me finish.
01:02:47.900
I'm just going to keep talking over you, and I'm going to pick up exactly where I was
01:02:52.320
I'm going to keep going until you let me pick up exactly where I was.
01:02:58.220
This is why you're the worst debater on the internet.
01:03:01.040
I'm just going to wait until you actually let me finish an argument.
01:03:02.480
You are the female destiny, but you're the crappy version.
01:03:05.640
He's one of the greatest debaters on the planet, so that's totally okay with me.
01:03:08.420
The fact that you think that shows that you're the dumbest out here.
01:03:12.400
Destiny is the worst person on the internet, and you're the worst version of the worst.
01:03:23.400
The line of credulity that you have to establish at some point is why men are exceptional in
01:03:29.020
the case of credit cards that women are not, and the line can't be financial literacy.
01:03:34.360
For example, it was financial literacy, and there's no reason that women cannot be financial literate.
01:03:43.380
No, there's no reason a woman can't be financially literate, so you shouldn't just have a blanket.
01:03:47.800
You said a woman who goes and studies beyond what most men do in studies.
01:03:51.800
She was asking for a line of credulity, so she says, okay, if your bar of the issue is
01:03:55.760
financial literacy, why can women who become financially literate not apply for a credit card?
01:04:00.740
Now, you have to establish the reason why a woman who is financially literate can't apply
01:04:06.600
Oh, so you're fine with women that are financially literate getting a credit card.
01:04:08.320
She's contributing positions that are not relevant to what she argued.
01:04:11.040
So are you okay with women who are financially literate getting a credit card?
01:04:18.520
Are you fine with women who are financially literate?
01:04:20.640
Are you fine with women who are financially literate getting a credit card?
01:04:30.640
It's a woman who studies it more than the average land.
01:04:39.800
That's an example that's an exception to the rule.
01:04:57.840
No, you're just equivocating now where you're acting like when I say case study...
01:05:00.320
You're using the words that I used yesterday because you're a gaslighter and you can't
01:05:04.680
You gaslight from everything that I said yesterday.
01:05:08.160
Do you want to list all the fallacies so you can repeat them?
01:05:17.460
You're belaboring something that you should just concede to.
01:05:37.680
I can explain to you, again, the reason that it's not an exception is that she wasn't
01:05:41.360
saying in this one unique case where this woman is exceptional...
01:05:48.660
Jay, you have to let me finish talking or, again, the audience just never gets anything.
01:05:53.660
Everyone's IQ literally starts going down points.
01:05:57.240
Like, we're getting to the 80 IQ level every time you talk.
01:05:59.660
Once you're done, all of your sick debate tactics are going to pick up where it was.
01:06:08.680
In fairness, Brian, if you want me to engage with this, I can.
01:06:12.600
But if he's going to interrupt me the entire time, there's nothing that I can do.
01:06:18.700
Something that is so, like, atypical would be, like, less than, like, I don't know, like, 5%.
01:06:22.380
It has to be something that is, yeah, it has to be, so that's, hold on, that's abnormal.
01:06:28.220
So, for example, a way that you could apply this fallacy correctly, if you want me to talk you through it, is, say, we're talking about body count.
01:06:35.540
And then we find this one case of a woman that has 100 body count, and it turns out that after she does that, she has a really long, successful marriage in life.
01:06:44.780
And if I use that to prove C, body count doesn't matter.
01:06:48.540
You would say, well, that's a bit of an exception to the rule.
01:06:50.620
That doesn't make that the rule that generally that the higher the body count is, that they're more, less likely to be consistent.
01:07:02.480
You literally just machine gun vomit out of your mouth for, like, minutes on end.
01:07:07.520
And all you do is interrupt constantly, make loud, annoying noises.
01:07:11.940
You start arguments over the dumbest shit that's not even relevant to the exception.
01:07:18.700
I spent two hours yesterday arguing over words in your own stupid definition of feminism.
01:07:30.160
If you don't want to debate me in the future, you don't have to.
01:07:41.660
Because clearly you wanted to debate me, which means that you've agreed to some level of engagement.
01:07:49.900
The issue is that, again, if you interrupt me the entire time.
01:07:53.320
You know, one thing that's pretty telling is that she hasn't insulted you at all once.
01:08:02.020
No, you're talking about yourself like you're like this master debater, like a masturbator, so to speak.
01:08:10.300
So what I'm trying to say is that, like, you're acting like you're, like, this exalted, like, debater in comparison to her, that you're the grown man and she's the child.
01:08:36.980
It makes sense I'm here to her, but not to you.
01:08:38.720
Well, yesterday, it makes sense to about 100,000 people.
01:08:45.020
After the show, Brian explicitly asked you to do a lot less of this behavior.
01:08:48.700
He explicitly asked you to do this because it was taking away from the quality of the content.
01:09:05.360
We're bringing on a panel of guests who are not debaters.
01:09:12.180
And I was like, I was letting Jay know, you know, maybe we don't do certain, you know,
01:09:26.080
You did not make an exceptional rule that they could be just as obnoxious like this with
01:09:38.180
As the host, as the moderator, I would personally, although I find it a bit amusing, you know,
01:09:44.340
the insults and whatnot, and it'd be nice if you guys didn't insult each other.
01:09:56.120
We're not acting like this is an equal engagement of problems.
01:09:58.840
Okay, then, Jay, do you want to say something nice?
01:10:00.320
I also think that you think she's obnoxious because she's not submitting to you.
01:10:06.840
He was mad because after the debate, we were, like, having a good conversation, and I told
01:10:14.400
I think he's mad because yesterday, after the debate, I told him I was like, I'm not mad.
01:10:19.400
You've been, like, subtweeting and retweeting me all day.
01:10:23.580
You mean yesterday, one time when I said a diarrhea joke?
01:10:38.600
Boosted Coyote, to mute a microphone, is $500 through Streamlabs.com slash whatever
01:10:49.300
Here, while we move on, and if time permitting, we can come back to the conversation a little
01:10:55.980
You know, we'll wait to get to the chats here in just a bit.
01:10:58.980
I want to get through some more of the show notes here.
01:11:12.820
The craziest dating experience you've had with a guy was when you went out with a guy
01:11:16.420
and you offered to pay your own tab, and he was offended by the offer, even when you
01:11:22.520
mentioned you weren't there for his money, and you were only there for his time and appreciation,
01:11:26.500
like reciprocity, but he felt that if he paid completely, you owed him a part of you.
01:11:42.880
There has been times where I've taken men out on full-on dates and spent over $1,000 on them,
01:11:48.120
and they still seem to want to tell me what to do, or like, you know, like, I don't know.
01:11:55.680
It could be a little oppressive sometimes, dating.
01:12:01.360
There's always an expectation that, you know, even if you put in your part or a little bit
01:12:06.300
more, then you still have to be submissive to a guy, even if you're...
01:12:15.960
I think if the woman is paying 100%, she should still be submissive.
01:12:27.880
Oh, could you tilt your mic up just a little bit?
01:12:32.020
I don't think you owe your body to anybody, really, but...
01:12:38.560
So, even if I do pay 100% and I still want to be submissive, why does it come down to,
01:12:47.800
Well, I mean, you should only engage in a sexual relationship if you want to engage in it.
01:12:57.180
Well, Brian, I'm just going to, like, just a little bit.
01:13:06.460
Honestly, any woman that spends, like, maybe $1,000 on a man basically pays 100% for the
01:13:12.900
No traditional man would ever allow a woman to spend that much on him.
01:13:20.080
Traditional men say they want a traditional woman, but refuse to be traditional men.
01:13:27.120
So, I'm saying, why submit to a man who doesn't even seem like he plays by the rules that
01:13:33.400
I'm bantering a little bit as it comes to, like, the woman should pay 100%, but, I mean...
01:13:40.920
But, yeah, I actually probably don't disagree with you necessarily.
01:13:44.160
If a guy is desirous of a traditional dynamic, he should probably take on the traditional
01:13:57.700
You said, someone who only sees you as an object.
01:14:03.040
You generally would like to know the point of view on the subject.
01:14:05.380
So, do you experience that a lot, that men see you as an object?
01:14:11.140
My appearance is a completely different outlook on who I am on the inside.
01:14:23.140
Like, I, like, run around and I'm like, oh my God, look at the butterflies and stuff like
01:14:55.820
No, actually, I went in to go get lip fillers, and the girl was like, have you done it before?
01:15:09.440
I don't want to touch them, but wait, just turn your head.
01:15:26.600
You have perfectly balanced lips for your face.
01:15:33.540
Anybody else have any plastic surgery at the table?
01:16:04.400
People can have nice titties without paying for it.
01:16:25.280
Like, do you think her tits are just too good to be real?
01:16:57.240
It was in June that I got them, like a year ago.
01:17:08.940
Well, when I'm on birth control, they're about the same size.
01:17:12.320
Yeah, I don't take birth control anymore because it fucks with my health, like in every way.
01:17:19.980
It's about the same, which is maybe why you didn't notice the difference.
01:17:27.700
I try not to look at the titties, even if they're gigantic.
01:17:48.520
Like, teachers are underpaid, is what I'm trying to get at.
01:18:03.160
Who of the women here at the table feel like they've been...
01:18:30.680
I'm not interested in being nasty all the time.
01:18:41.680
They look at it and it's like, I want that usually.
01:18:44.580
But are you being objectified if you make fun of someone's body?
01:19:24.860
with this new guy you were seeing in Los Angeles.
01:19:28.400
He was a total blast, great energy, and you were definitely feeling it on something fun.
01:19:36.540
You guys were dancing fully in the moment, and suddenly you hear a name.
01:19:42.360
It's your ex from New York who you hadn't seen in years.
01:19:46.200
He walks up and stands right next to your current date, and they looked very similar,
01:19:59.140
I would say usually tall, tan, Italian-looking, physical, and then personality-wise, like a
01:20:42.540
I think more of, like, they just are very type B, similar to how I am, disorganized.
01:20:48.740
Maybe they make, like, awful decisions, but not, like, to the point of, like, criminal.
01:20:56.200
You said the other time you were in Costa Rica, excuse me, you solo traveled there for
01:21:09.440
That could have been really, really, really possible.
01:21:19.180
You guys swam, partied, you rode his motorcycle through the jungle roads.
01:21:24.500
And you basically fell into a three-day whirlwind romance, pure passion, no plans, and zero
01:21:44.660
Was there any, like, specific thing with him that you wanted to share on?
01:21:49.380
Yeah, I just think it kind of alludes to the idea of, like, I don't really am so pressured
01:21:56.280
with society, like, in the idea of, like, having to have a long-term relationship, feel
01:22:10.080
I know a lot of people are like, oh, it's kind of weird if you're not, like, in a long-term
01:22:13.080
relationship, and you're just, like, in, like, you know, little flings here and there.
01:22:17.300
But I think that's the fun part of being, like, living is just to be in the moment, and
01:22:27.440
And when you travel, do you find yourself in these temporary romances or whatever?
01:22:36.420
Like, that's the top priority, but if it happens, it happens.
01:22:41.660
You wanted to talk about baby mama and baby daddy culture, but you don't have kids, right?
01:22:49.120
Do you, what specifically did you want to talk about?
01:22:51.540
I just feel like, personally, in my opinion, it's really shoved down in the pop culture.
01:22:56.320
Like, it's very normalized to have a child without being in marriage.
01:23:01.060
So, I would say, like, I am more traditional in the sense of, like, I think if you're going
01:23:05.060
to raise a family, I would want you to be, or myself to be in a committed marriage.
01:23:10.920
Like, why would I want to have children with just anybody and not be in a marriage?
01:23:16.380
That, I definitely am, like, I'm more traditional, I would say.
01:23:19.580
And I guess also that comes to the idea of, like, I am very liberal.
01:23:23.620
Like I said, I'm, like, free-spirited, but there are certain aspects to myself that I
01:23:27.260
do think in traditional, sorry, traditionalism is important.
01:23:33.200
You just said you're a bit more, you're liberal?
01:23:35.320
I would say, like, there's a lot of liberal ideas that I have, but I definitely lean more
01:23:44.040
But you said, and in your notes here, you also wrote, you're very old school and traditional.
01:23:58.180
Can you be, when it comes to you, and this is what you wrote, you said you're very old
01:24:08.240
When it comes to marriage, I think if you want to be married, like, that's, to me, marriage
01:24:16.220
Like, you want to have children, you want to build a family.
01:24:21.280
That seems like the best way to raise a family.
01:24:24.060
Personally, to have children outside of a marriage, I think it's, like, so shoved down
01:24:29.080
our pop culture ideas that, like, we should have, women should be able to do whatever they
01:24:38.400
I don't think that, to me, personally, that's just not really in my vocabulary.
01:24:42.380
So, yeah, so that's your view when it comes to having children outside of marriage, your
01:25:01.440
How could you expect the traditional element if you're not preparing yourself to be in
01:25:09.360
I don't think I'm ready to be a mother or a wife quite yet.
01:25:15.320
And the last thing I would want to do is get into an awful, um, unrealistic marriage
01:25:19.720
that leads to divorce and to have, um, children just because I felt pressured to have children.
01:25:24.620
But if you're not preparing yourself for that type of a lifestyle, do you think that you'll
01:25:29.000
just suddenly turn traditional when you're ready to get married?
01:25:31.880
No, I think there's a lot of healing that I need to do within myself.
01:25:38.340
I want to have kids, like, maybe in the future, but I don't, in a good mindset and a healthy
01:25:50.060
I think women should, and men should be in committed relationships to have children, not
01:25:57.020
Uh, when you said, I haven't found the right person, doesn't that imply that the right
01:26:10.160
So you're like, I don't want to get married yet.
01:26:16.520
Wouldn't the right person assume that he's already traditional and wants to have kids?
01:26:21.900
Um, if he's, I would also love if they didn't feel pressured to have a family.
01:26:29.360
If it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, it shouldn't be like a pressure of like, I want
01:26:36.580
The reason I ask that is because, um, uh, like, I don't understand this.
01:26:43.440
Like women, they want to find the right guy, right?
01:26:46.160
Like a high value man, they, they call it, um, fits all these criterias.
01:26:50.720
Because, um, when you find that man, why, why are you finding, what do you do with that
01:26:58.820
If your current, uh, view of, of dating is simply just like have fun.
01:27:03.720
It's like, I always ask these people, same thing.
01:27:12.060
Because the only answer to me that's, that makes any sense is to marry and potentially
01:27:18.140
So I'm, I'm wondering what all of this dating is, if ultimately both the men and the women
01:27:26.960
Or the man is looking for the right woman, uh, for what?
01:27:29.920
Like if it's not for marriage, I'm not sure what is it like a temporary, like chapter in
01:27:40.540
I think not, people don't just come to your life for no reason.
01:27:43.860
There's always something that they provide for you.
01:27:45.540
So even if they're not in a marriage or end up in a long-term relationship, I learned
01:27:50.520
I'm not always out here like, he's the one, he's the one.
01:27:55.880
Um, I take a lot of accountability, accountability that I am a hot mess myself when it comes to
01:28:02.640
dating, which is why I don't track the best kind of individuals when I, when I date.
01:28:06.360
But that's what I like to back to what Jay said, and this is pretty, pretty much for
01:28:11.180
everyone is that, um, if in the future you see, especially as a woman, women, cause you
01:28:16.680
If you see in the future that you'll probably want to be married, you actually have to start
01:28:21.660
that traditional practice of being that woman before you actually find the husband.
01:28:26.840
That's why I asked, wouldn't the husband, wouldn't the future husband already have the
01:28:30.240
mindset of being traditional, like finding you and be like, cool, let's do this.
01:28:34.360
But if you're not already living that, that's why Jay asks, what do you suddenly wake up
01:28:38.540
when you find the right man and suddenly you're traditional?
01:28:45.160
Um, I think yes, my, the person that I would want to end up should be looking for marriage.
01:28:53.440
So if they're, if I'm in a first date and he's like, I want to get married, I'd, I'd,
01:29:00.540
I would rather talk about this later on in life.
01:29:03.080
I think you, you, we're not saying you should rush into marriage, but rather that when you're
01:29:09.320
married, it's a different lifestyle and it's not, it doesn't change when you're married.
01:29:17.560
So you have to begin preparing before, not that you have to rush into marriage is what
01:29:23.900
So in other words, you'd have to, you need to give up the liberal centrism if you want
01:29:28.580
No traditional guy wants a liberal girl because let me give you an example.
01:29:33.180
I had a friend who dated a liberal girl back when we were in our twenties and he wanted
01:29:46.260
And I think because he, he saw that because she had this attitude of not being traditional,
01:29:57.560
So if you want to, like what you put out is what you attract, is what I'm trying to say.
01:30:01.980
Can you be more specific in like the liberal definition for you?
01:30:06.500
I mean, you describe yourself as a central, a left of center, I think is what you said,
01:30:11.780
But I mean, like if I'm a guy and I'm out there and I, let's say for the sake of argument,
01:30:16.160
I'm a high value male, maybe I'm not, but let's say that if I am, like if I was a traditional
01:30:20.080
minded guy and I wanted a wife, like I'm going to be looking for the qualities already there,
01:30:25.540
not like, can I make her into a traditional woman when we get married?
01:30:29.720
I'm going to look for the qualities already being there.
01:30:31.800
Isn't that a lot of pressure for someone though?
01:30:33.780
Don't you think like everyone's in their own journey in creating the best version of
01:30:37.620
Not everyone's going to be perfect and ready for anything in life.
01:30:42.580
Like when you describe a traditional man, what are you looking for?
01:30:45.780
Cause you got to make sure that the net, like what there's, I think what they're saying
01:30:48.080
is if you want to attract a certain type of fish, you got to use the right type of lure.
01:30:52.060
And so when you say, what's, what's the fish you're trying to attract?
01:30:55.760
Um, somebody for me, there's traditionalism, but also open-mindedness, like being able to,
01:31:04.760
But being able to also have different ideas of, of pathways in life and not being so, um,
01:31:12.460
So single-minded and thinking like, this is the only path in life.
01:31:16.540
Like this, that's like traditional pluralism though.
01:31:20.220
So like, is there any tradition you can point to that, that has survived the test of time
01:31:24.780
that didn't hold to a fairly narrow approach to what it is?
01:31:28.180
Sounds like you're saying traditionalism kind of looks a certain way.
01:31:31.820
Like the structure looks a certain way, but ultimately what's the tradition that's being
01:31:36.540
Or is there any structure of the family or does it just look like a family on TV?
01:31:41.760
Like a tradition itself in every sense of the word comes from a long lineage of people
01:31:47.860
that hold it together and keep it, uh, safeguard it, protect it, keep it rigorous.
01:31:53.060
So it sounds like what Kyle is asking is like, well, what is that?
01:31:57.680
It sounds like it's a type, it's like an image of it, but it's not the practice of it.
01:32:07.240
I think if they are, they are the breadwinner, that's great.
01:32:09.700
I, they don't have to be like, I would love to make my own income as well.
01:32:24.700
You're open to economically being on the same level.
01:32:27.380
So if you were dating somebody for a while and he was making like 30 K less a year than you
01:32:36.300
If you're the one making the money at the time and he's going to school?
01:32:38.940
Um, I don't think currently where I'm at right now that it's, it's not a priority, but I
01:32:43.720
think it would definitely be something that would make me want not to be with them.
01:32:47.860
So like you're kind of wanting some traditional gender roles, like he's being at least the
01:32:52.980
breadwinner mostly throughout the relationship or at least on, on parody.
01:32:56.160
You want him to pay for that and stuff like that.
01:32:59.580
What if he fits all of the checks for traditionalism that you are looking for and the only thing
01:33:06.860
he's looking for is you, uh, in addition to your, you know, compatibility, but the most
01:33:12.200
important thing on his list is that you mother his children.
01:33:14.920
That's the only thing in return he's expecting is the expectation that, uh, Kyla just asked
01:33:25.340
But if his expectation is that, is that an equal exchange?
01:33:33.200
Having a kid is so like life altering to your body, physical, mental, to a woman that, that
01:33:39.820
just seems to me and like the most simplest terms, I'm giving away my life to be honest.
01:33:44.640
So a lot of the times it has to be the right person and it has to be like when I feel like
01:33:51.140
Well, yeah, the question wasn't like when it, of course there's a, when sometimes you
01:33:55.300
don't know when, uh, sometimes, sometimes you think it's not the right time and it actually
01:33:59.820
Uh, but I'm pointing to more like, uh, if you have a set of standards for the man.
01:34:05.680
And let's say it is from every perspective, looking at it, he matches all of this, all
01:34:15.540
I'm wondering, how do you know when you're at an equal exchange?
01:34:18.260
Cause now you just said, well, I want the man to be traditional.
01:34:22.960
I want to lead the family, protect me, whatever else you add in there.
01:34:26.520
But it sounds like one of the most important things for that traditional man is going to
01:34:30.840
be the thing that you're actually like, eh, whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:34:34.720
And it, it seems like it's not a equal exchange.
01:34:37.340
Cause what is it thereafter ultimately, aside from that?
01:34:41.640
You don't think it's an, like, uh, it's fair to say to have a child is like not compare.
01:34:47.660
I wouldn't compare it to me saying like provide for a date, uh, to be able to pay a bill.
01:35:04.720
It's sort of, uh, obligation from his perspective.
01:35:11.680
Uh, you know, providing the whole, the making the home, like protecting the home, uh, everything.
01:35:17.820
It sounds like you're liberalism still kicking in and you're like, well, I want to fly to Tahiti.
01:35:30.960
And that's why Jay was asking, well, what is it you're grabbing from the traditional bin, uh, from the man?
01:35:37.180
And what are you providing from the traditional bin from his perspective?
01:35:42.960
I mean, what, what else would it, could it be like, you know.
01:35:48.080
Like when you say providing children, do you just mean you don't want to give up your career for children?
01:35:52.680
I feel like having kids, like it's selfish to not center your life around them.
01:35:59.360
And right now I have so much, so much on my plate, career, financial, um, just everything that I don't think it would be fair to have a kid right now or probably in a while.
01:36:10.400
I think one of the things that I think when I look at relationships, there's like these different categories and boxes of percentages that we give.
01:36:17.880
So there's like domestic, there's income, there's emotional, and then there's also like, uh, like child rearing parenting.
01:36:24.660
And so like in my mind, these things don't have to be 50% the whole way across.
01:36:29.320
But they need to be exchangeable in a way where both partners look at them.
01:36:33.300
So say, for example, if the husband is expected to give like 70% of the income and you work like part time or three quarters of the time, I'm not sure what your workload is.
01:36:43.720
That means other areas have to flex to kind of accommodate that.
01:36:47.200
And so I think the important question that men have to ask when they're going into relationship is going like, well, what am I offering?
01:36:52.980
And what are the type of women that I'm interested in looking for?
01:36:55.980
And as a woman, you have to go, well, what am I willing to offer?
01:36:59.620
And which men are interested in looking for those things?
01:37:02.300
Because I would agree most like more conservative, super trad men, they don't really, they're not as interested in like the woman's income.
01:37:09.020
Most trad men are pretty open to being like 60 to 70% of the income.
01:37:12.460
But what they look for in exchange would be like higher domestic labor.
01:37:16.120
So like they do the income labor, woman does maybe higher domestic labor.
01:37:20.040
If she's still working and has to be back and forth.
01:37:21.500
I don't even think liberal men care about women's income.
01:37:26.620
Like the reality is very few men can provide for a family on one economy.
01:37:31.240
What I'm saying is though, I understand the arguments of like, okay, economically speaking, you need a two income household.
01:37:38.960
That's just the economic reality for most couples.
01:37:41.280
What I'm saying is, is that men, it's not going to make men more attracted to women.
01:37:47.840
And they'll do it out of economic necessity, but not like, oh, she's a higher earner.
01:37:54.880
It could be like a nice positive, for example, for a liberal guy.
01:37:58.460
But I don't even think liberal men are going to be like, oh, she's more attractive because she's a higher earner.
01:38:04.840
What I'm talking about is once you're in the relationship, these exchanges are going on.
01:38:09.560
So what happens when I listen to feminists and like man spheres fight with each other is women really ignore the income labor that men often do.
01:38:18.100
They're just kind of like, it's like a, it's like a self-assumed thing that men are bringing to the table.
01:38:22.360
And then men will often ignore as well, the economic labor that women are bringing in.
01:38:26.640
And which is why I've listed multiple facets, because I agree.
01:38:29.640
Men aren't like looking at women who are making like a hundred grand and be like, ooh, baby.
01:38:35.580
And like, she makes me feel good when I'm with her.
01:38:37.340
Or that's more or less what most people are doing.
01:38:39.980
But once you get into the relationship, part of the exchange, if we're all being honest with each other, has to be like, who's bringing the income, where and how much?
01:38:49.020
And most people say the man should be bringing in higher income.
01:38:52.080
And so, and typically, one of the partners is also doing higher emotional labor to like make the relationship work.
01:39:02.440
So say, for example, you've got one partner that comes in with like a lot of emotional baggage.
01:39:06.760
So let's use, I'm going to use a man for, I'll use a woman for an example first, because I think people would find them more appealing and then I can use a man.
01:39:12.240
For a woman, maybe she like had a messy childhood.
01:39:23.000
We're talking about like what would be the emotional labor.
01:39:25.040
In the case of a man having lots of baggage, he might have lots of anger issues.
01:39:28.900
He might kind of stall wall and not communicate, right?
01:39:31.200
So then the woman might have higher emotional labor to make the relationship work.
01:39:34.580
Because you have to be able to talk to each other and emotionally relate to one another.
01:39:37.900
Jay, it sounds like you maybe wanted to comment on some stuff.
01:39:39.800
Do you do the emotional baggage in y'all's relationship?
01:39:43.240
Like are you the one that covers the emotional baggage?
01:39:46.080
I would say my husband is much more emotionally like solid than I am.
01:39:48.840
I definitely like have a lot more baggage from my childhood.
01:39:53.320
Like would you rather be in a situation where if you had an option of a dude who you liked and he made a lot of money,
01:40:01.900
would you choose that if you had to be a homemaker versus your own career and out there like having to do your own thing and all that?
01:40:11.860
Naturally, I am very submissive and I already do those things for fun.
01:40:15.720
I like have fun cleaning and cooking, so it's something that I, but I don't look traditional, so it's kind of...
01:40:22.360
But if you had a choice, which one would you prefer?
01:40:25.000
I would go with letting the man lead me and with the money, you know.
01:40:29.180
And I would take on the responsibility of cleaning and cooking for the home and having the baby.
01:40:33.600
So that would be a better life for you than like trying to fend for yourself in L.A.
01:40:40.460
What, being like barefoot and pregnant and taken care of?
01:40:42.340
If the option of a guy who has a lot of money that you like, you generally are like, he's not a butthole, right?
01:40:49.020
Or like you're a career woman doing your own thing and you have like a person that meets you halfway, which would you prefer?
01:40:58.060
When I got into the relationship, my husband hadn't graduated high school, didn't have a job.
01:41:01.820
I was already high income earning and had the greatest income prospects.
01:41:06.040
But for me, I learned pretty early to really deprioritize like surface stuff.
01:41:15.700
Like that was the most important thing to me is a man of high integrity and character, which I would say I got.
01:41:25.380
So for me, but I'm not saying that that's the typical woman experience.
01:41:28.080
Like I recognized that I was very career motivated and so in my mind, I did a mental calculus of going, that means I need to scale back the money expectations because he's got to make a lot of trade-offs that aren't traditional for me.
01:41:40.080
So I can't ask for the same traditional exchange.
01:41:48.100
You hold, you lean more traditional, more submissive, but your appearances might throw people off.
01:41:57.020
So when it is the, you know, when you are searching for a man, what else are you going to have to do, do you think, to attract?
01:42:06.980
I mean, is it fair to say you might attract not that?
01:42:11.920
But when I date, I kind of go off of the first approach, like how they treat me.
01:42:20.200
And, you know, I don't really have a specific thing that I look for.
01:42:23.820
I mean, I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
01:42:25.580
It was like you hold, you lean more into traditionalism submissive.
01:42:29.780
So that it might be the case that the man you're actually looking for is actually traditional.
01:42:34.800
But if your appearance can throw people off, I was wondering what do you do to find the traditional?
01:42:43.520
But I don't necessarily look for what a man can offer me.
01:42:46.680
It's compatibility, you know, like how does he make me feel?
01:42:52.780
But if it's a struggle together, that's what we have to do.
01:43:02.720
It's also the guy that you like who has stable income, good money, right?
01:43:08.440
Versus like you're on your own trying to fend for yourself.
01:43:10.680
And then you find a guy that meets you halfway or something like that.
01:43:15.400
I would rather be at home taking care of kids, doing my thing there.
01:43:29.560
I'd like us to have like both our separate careers, honestly.
01:43:43.840
But so going back to this, you said you're old school, you're traditional.
01:43:54.060
When I went home last week, my entire family bowed to me when I walked in the door.
01:44:17.420
I'm just curious, though, because I know it's different for everyone.
01:44:25.940
I mean, basically just deferring to his leadership, willful cooperation, so deferring to his leadership.
01:44:33.060
Now, for example, like, I don't think submission is this.
01:44:37.200
Your husband says jump off a bridge, and then you jump off a bridge.
01:44:40.520
That's not, you would not be in contravention of being submissive if you're like, no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge.
01:44:48.060
Or if your husband said, okay, sell these drugs or be a prostitute.
01:44:57.720
Your husband says, well, let's say it's your boyfriend.
01:45:00.140
Your boyfriend says, when we get married, you're taking my last name.
01:45:04.860
Well, first off, let me ask, would you take your husband's last name?
01:45:13.880
Under, just to be clear, you want to get married, though, right?
01:45:33.920
Are you going to hyphenate or are you going to keep your last name?
01:45:47.240
Well, I just said I would be open to hyphenating.
01:46:10.420
So, what do you consider traditional or modern?
01:46:22.000
That would be definitely, like, if I was to not take his last name, that's not traditional.
01:46:32.540
Would it be icky if he demanded to take your last name?
01:46:42.480
Why do I have to do something out of demanding?
01:46:48.760
I might have been gone when you guys talked about this.
01:46:52.280
They don't have to, but if they do, that's a great look.
01:47:03.880
When it comes to the protection component, would you have an expectation, even on the first date
01:47:08.320
or deeper into the relationship, that if you guys are walking along the sidewalk, that
01:47:12.160
the guy is walking closer to the road where the cars are?
01:47:23.120
Okay, but it would be something you'd want in a relationship.
01:47:26.040
And then you'd want him to protect you in other circumstances?
01:47:29.160
So just to be clear, do you want the guy to be old school and traditional in all the
01:47:35.620
ways that men are typically old school and traditional?
01:47:44.940
And so just to be clear, though, so you want a guy to essentially be willing to die for
01:47:57.500
Isn't that the, even the walking closer to the, where the cars are in the road, isn't
01:48:02.540
that an entailment of that very thing is he's willing to essentially put his life at risk
01:48:10.380
Um, I see your, your point of view, but I think at the end of the day, I would want
01:48:13.620
to be with someone who would, if I said no to them and then I explained why they would
01:48:22.540
Like you want to have a conversation with the guy?
01:48:24.040
You want to explain to him why, despite him being traditional and old school, why he needs
01:48:33.220
So what if he wants to start having conversations with you about his traditional gender expectations?
01:48:39.080
For example, babe, I want to have a conversation about who's going to pay.
01:48:45.680
So, but he wants to have a conversation of, you know, I'd actually prefer if you walked
01:48:51.200
closer to the road so that you could conceivably get run over by a car.
01:49:07.140
So you want an Italian hot mess that doesn't want you to take his last name, but it's traditional
01:49:15.760
So what does the traditional old school guy get?
01:49:22.280
Well, so if we're going to lay out some of the things that.
01:49:28.440
So if we lay out the things that you want, so you want an old school traditional guy,
01:49:33.700
so the entailment there is going to be protecting and providing you.
01:49:37.740
I think being willing to and potentially dying for somebody, that seems like a pretty.
01:49:44.240
What do they get that specifically you would be bringing?
01:50:04.680
If he told you to make a sandwich, you would do it.
01:50:12.200
No, it was the most polite, charitable way one could say, make a sandwich.
01:50:16.060
Men who are, like, against feminism would always say, like, go make me a sandwich in
01:50:25.740
I would cook for the man, but if he's, like, immediately going into the relationship expecting
01:50:38.680
On the first date, he's supposed to risk his life walking you on the sidewalk.
01:50:47.280
Well, if he's saying to me, hey, go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich, that's, like,
01:50:56.300
I mean, in this exchange, right, like, it would be rude if she said, walk on, on the sidewalk
01:51:01.720
Like, everyone would agree, like, damn, that's, like, fucking bitchy, right?
01:51:04.200
I think we would all agree that would be, like, a pretty bitch move.
01:51:06.420
It'd also be really socially weird on a first date.
01:51:14.220
I think if a man was, like, not aware of it, and the woman was like, what are you doing?
01:51:20.400
Like, I think a man would actually be responsive to that.
01:51:26.780
But in general, I think men are a lot better at rolling with, like, criticism than women
01:51:32.580
So, I mean, okay, so you're saying the guy should just do it.
01:51:35.080
Okay, so the woman should just make the sandwich.
01:51:38.540
I don't give a fuck about men walking on the side.
01:51:39.700
We shouldn't have to tell her to make the sandwich.
01:51:41.460
She should just preemptively know to make the sandwich.
01:51:44.560
Uh, well, here's where I would argue with the feminist.
01:51:51.880
I would say, if you have certain, like, traditional chivalrous expectations that would be an immediate
01:51:56.740
ick if, like, not foreseen, and you don't give any grace in between, but you expect
01:52:01.360
high levels of grace in return, you're creating a very losing situation for all men, which is
01:52:08.480
However, if you have mutual grace and discuss these things, so, for example, there's lots
01:52:12.820
of things that my husband will ask me to do all the time, and I'm happy to do it, right?
01:52:16.600
He might just be, like, sitting down watching TV and be like, hey, can you go get me a drink?
01:52:21.180
But part of the exchange is that when he's up, I can also ask him to do the same, but
01:52:28.700
I just want to point out that even the way in which we're discussing this is in a very particular
01:52:34.200
It's purely individualistic, whereas if we're really talking about tradition, it
01:52:38.600
used to be the case that women and men were actually raised that this is just what you
01:52:44.300
So you actually just do this sandwich making, and you actually want to do it, right?
01:52:48.920
Because it's part of a larger structure that's more valuable than your own individual preferences.
01:52:53.800
Even as we discuss this, it's like, well, what's the contract?
01:52:57.060
I think the important thing is to sit down and make a contract.
01:53:01.700
When we're talking about traditionalism, it's kind of a joke to ask anyone, you know, no
01:53:07.720
offense, but asking you about traditionalism, you're just like, you're taking it like it's
01:53:11.920
like you're at a salad bar, and you're like, here's some cucumbers.
01:53:15.480
And what the traditional perspective is that the tradition is the entire room.
01:53:24.520
The issue, I think the issue that we have with modernity dating is that the room has
01:53:28.780
The problem with the banquet table is that now for the man to even be able to go to the
01:53:32.880
table, this is going to break down immediately.
01:53:36.140
In the past, men could just work and make enough money for both of them and run the household.
01:53:44.420
And then all the women went into the work and then lowered the dollar.
01:53:48.400
And like, yeah, but if we didn't have women go into the workplace, our GDP would have never
01:53:53.180
And if we didn't shift away from the gold backing, we would have...
01:53:56.900
The GDP is so fundamental for like everything when it comes to a nation state, because if
01:54:01.340
you don't have a competitive GDP, your enemies are able to stomp you.
01:54:04.680
What is your nation if it's not bound in something bigger than the GDP?
01:54:09.800
It's usually bound in some level of like civic nationality, which is going to be the bigger
01:54:15.960
No, more like patriotism, like love for a country, not duties.
01:54:28.800
I know that you think this is good because it's like one of your memes, but nobody thinks
01:54:32.460
GDP is important, if you don't understand, for being able to be competitive with your
01:54:37.900
When it comes to like a relationship in what we're talking about, we have this issue where
01:54:42.280
the economy is so different now that men can't bring to the table sole providership, by and
01:54:47.900
Some can, and those ones I think do get to make different concessions and negotiations
01:54:52.920
But by and large, men have to say, I need you to come to the table for economic income
01:54:57.940
And that necessarily means that women get to have more negotiation power for what the
01:55:01.440
relationship looks like and what they want in return.
01:55:03.240
And the problem with a lot of modern men and dating is that all they feel like they can
01:55:07.060
bring is money because unfortunately our society has attached a male's value to their like their
01:55:13.340
dollar, their wallet, which I think is a tragedy.
01:55:15.520
And I think it's bad when women do that to men.
01:55:19.100
But you just said the GDP is like the key thing.
01:55:21.820
GDP is really important, but that doesn't mean that the part, the value.
01:55:24.600
But then it's a tragedy that men's wallet matters so much in a relationship.
01:55:28.580
It's not a contradiction at all to say that like at a nation state level, GDP is important
01:55:33.340
to be competitive and not get destroyed by your enemies.
01:55:35.960
But at an individual level, it's a tragedy that men's only value in a relationship is
01:55:43.180
It should be more value, the character that they have.
01:55:49.560
It's actually pretty bad is that at the individual level, it's a tragedy.
01:55:53.740
But at the nation level, it's the ultimate value.
01:55:59.780
And when you argued it with me, you said it was subjective and relative and what you
01:56:07.640
If you argue that it's relative and then you make an argument, it's arbitrary.
01:56:18.860
That has nothing to do with whether relativism is a contradiction.
01:56:24.800
Presuppositionalism doesn't solve a group's dilemma.
01:56:27.900
You've never had a philosophy class to even speak on these topics.
01:56:33.040
After watching your debate, I don't think you have a degree in philosophy because you would
01:56:36.920
know that presuppositionalism does not solve Agrippa's dilemma.
01:56:43.460
Unfortunately, you offered coherentism as the solution to Agrippa's trilemma.
01:56:47.520
If you know, or you're not educated in it, you know that Agrippa's trilemma is not solved
01:56:58.940
You didn't know what coherentism was until yesterday.
01:57:02.340
I don't have to know every single philosophical word to be able to engage.
01:57:04.300
If you're going to come to a debate, yeah, you should know it the day before.
01:57:06.800
Then you should probably know what equivocating means when you cited it incorrectly.
01:57:09.740
Which you did it because you used feminism two different ways.
01:57:17.580
Then why did you cite it incorrectly against me?
01:57:19.920
You used two-quote pro to try to claim it against me, but it's an ad hominem from hypocrisy,
01:57:26.480
When I was looking for confirmation bias, you cited Gambler's Dilemma.
01:57:30.940
Gambler's Dilemma has nothing to do with confirmation bias.
01:57:34.960
Gambler's Dilemma has everything to do from using past post-hoc information to make predictions
01:57:39.780
of the future, which has nothing to do with confirmation bias.
01:57:42.820
So what you do in debates is you cite a bunch of philosophically sounding words to feel impressive.
01:57:49.700
And unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about.
01:57:52.940
You're talking to the hamster that's running in your head on a wheel in your head.
01:57:56.140
To stunt people who don't have philosophical systems in the background.
01:57:59.240
And it's spitting the little doo-doo balls out of your mouth like a hamster wheel.
01:58:02.240
But you still, to this day, haven't solved Agrippa's Trilemma.
01:58:17.500
That's not anything to do with what we're debating.
01:58:19.380
It has everything to do with it because you're saying that relativism is arbitrary.
01:58:22.980
But relativism has never been viewed as arbitrary ever.
01:58:25.640
It's a philosophical system based out of foundationalism.
01:58:29.280
It's not an appeal to authority at all in any way, shape, or form.
01:58:32.360
The fact that nobody believed that is an appeal to authority because it's a box populi.
01:58:34.960
A moral relativism is a foundationalism belief.
01:58:37.460
The reason why it's not solving Agrippa's Trilemma is the same reason presuppositionalism
01:58:46.620
It's the idea that you fundamentally cannot justify any axiom at the end of the day because
01:58:50.320
everything must be circular including presuppositionalism.
01:58:52.320
Presuppositionalism tries to solve Agrippa's Trilemma by presupposing something, but it
01:58:59.640
This only fools idiots who follow destiny when you just yap because you think you're destiny
01:59:07.180
Take a bet on the IQ average between destiny's audience and your audience.
01:59:12.340
The garbage person that you tried to dissociate yourself with?
01:59:13.920
I would bet that the education level between my audience and yours is actually a disparity.
01:59:22.660
What, like in the Canadian system that you were educated in?
01:59:25.280
He's significantly better education system in America?
01:59:30.860
Aren't you guys trying to destroy the Department of Education?
01:59:35.440
Aren't you guys trying to destroy the Department of Education so obviously the system sucks?
01:59:39.740
If the system was working, then you wouldn't want to destroy it.
01:59:43.920
I don't believe that the state education system is good, no.
01:59:52.760
One second, Brian's got to get through his sounds.
01:59:56.060
It's called you kiss your mother with that fucking mouth?
02:00:14.000
What's the meaningful symmetry breaker between the tragedy of a man, his whole value being
02:00:22.080
essentially the GDP of the house, and the country having...
02:00:27.840
It's not a tragedy that the GDP of the country is good.
02:00:32.740
But at the house level, which is a small country, it's a tragedy.
02:00:58.420
I actually don't think it's bad if you don't know what it is.
02:01:00.280
But my answer to your question is ecological fallacy.
02:01:02.320
If you want me to explain ecological fallacy, I'm willing to do so.
02:01:08.620
My answer to your question is an ecological fallacy.
02:01:10.380
So you can't answer it, so you won't answer it, because it's...
02:01:23.520
So asking for a symmetry breaker, I want to know the meaningful distinction between...
02:01:27.360
The symmetry breaker is found in the ecological fallacy.
02:01:29.560
Again, I can define it for you, or you can define it here, but if you want the answer...
02:01:37.520
It's something that she heard Destiny talk about, that she repeats...
02:01:41.280
...and has nothing to do with the thing that we're debating.
02:01:43.360
But it's a way for her to deflect away when she gets cornered, and she does it in multiple
02:01:48.660
But it doesn't fool anybody else in the audience.
02:01:50.880
That's why you can't tell me what subjectivism and relativism are, and how your position justifies
02:01:58.120
You're the one who thought absolutism and objectivism are the same thing when they're not
02:02:04.460
They don't mean the same thing in philosophy at all.
02:02:07.680
Do you want to answer his question on Agrippa's trilemma?
02:02:09.640
Tell me how your position is true, if it's arbitrary, and if it's subjective.
02:02:25.820
Relativism is looking at the scale, like a group of things, and finding things relative
02:02:30.400
So, for example, relativism would answer the simple philosophical question, if a man steals
02:02:38.540
If you find out that he's in a super tyrannical country and he can't feed his children, most
02:02:46.040
Moral subjectivism would say, what I like to do is what is right.
02:02:54.020
If I say, if I say, I'm a moral relativist, that's a subjectivist position.
02:03:05.560
Here, I can draw it for you so you don't understand.
02:03:09.260
For those of you who are not familiar with philosophy, I'll explain it to the ladies.
02:03:18.680
If I say I am a, this is like talking to, she doesn't talk.
02:03:28.780
So Kant had this idea of absolutism, which is that when we come to universal laws, we
02:03:33.560
should apply them to everyone equally in all ways.
02:03:35.780
And the problem with absolutism is that it falls apart really quickly.
02:03:38.500
And the only law that he could find that worked really well for absolutism in its own
02:03:50.720
So when we're looking at the spectrum of absolutism to relativism, relativism would
02:03:55.260
say stealing is bad, but it kind of depends on the situation that's happening.
02:04:01.240
So an example of relativism would be like utilitarianism.
02:04:03.560
If I say I'm a moral relativist, is that my subjective state?
02:04:14.860
I don't even know what you're trying to ask here.
02:04:17.880
Well, the issue is that you're equivocating again.
02:04:22.420
Because you're using the word subjective, and in the next question, you're going to
02:04:25.900
So subjective could mean, in this situation, your personal state.
02:04:29.820
But then when I answer that question, what you'll do is you'll see subjectivism is a moral
02:04:36.800
Do you want to go into objectivism versus subjectivism?
02:04:43.880
Okay, Plato had this idea that essentially there was ideas that were true.
02:04:55.600
Do you want to interrupt me or do you want to keep going?
02:04:56.780
What you're saying right now, is that subjective or objective?
02:05:05.720
Is your account of Plato, is it subjective or objective?
02:05:15.860
You're pretending to ask me a question that's looking to adhere to actual response.
02:05:20.800
But what you're actually doing is to equivocate the word afterwards so you can trick me.
02:05:24.520
Do you want me to finish going through the why axis?
02:05:28.240
Do we want to answer his question on Agrippa's trilemma?
02:05:36.980
But there's a bunch of chats that we have to get to.
02:06:08.180
They totally understand the message that just, okay.
02:06:13.460
Yo, Ogle, thank you for the gifted 50 memberships on YouTube.
02:06:22.700
Society has lost the entire point of humanity, which is procreation and advancing itself.
02:06:27.840
Here, I'm going to get the rest of them to answer that one, though.
02:06:33.160
Sorry, dude, but relativism is not subjectivism per se.
02:06:42.060
If I say I am a relativist, and that's my subjective state, could you name one Kant book?
02:06:52.160
Or are you going to keep running away from that?
02:07:19.380
Don't you think people who study at a graduate level can pick out when somebody thinks they
02:07:26.940
know a topic, and then they start talking about it, and then they don't know a single
02:07:32.060
Could answer things like the difference between objectivism and relativism.
02:07:37.820
Yeah, you think objectivism and absolutism is the same, bro.
02:07:41.580
The sense of the word and the context determines how I'm meaning it.
02:07:49.440
The intentionality behind when I say I'm in a subjective relativism, my position, that
02:07:59.480
It's what I'm giving an example that we're trying to define the difference between
02:08:02.340
Could you name one philosophy book that you've read?
02:08:04.500
The Five Dialogues by Aristotle, Plato, Republic.
02:08:10.440
The Five Dialogues by Aristotle, Plato, Republic.
02:08:26.920
What fallacy is this where you go, if you can't name book, can't know thing?
02:08:30.360
Because like Destiny, you come to debates acting like you know what you're talking
02:08:37.460
Does Jim Bob not know anything about the government because he couldn't name the three branches
02:08:43.100
Yeah, that doesn't mean I memorized the name of the book.
02:08:51.640
I don't know why you think this is such a dunk.
02:08:56.200
You're deflecting because you're looking like an idiot.
02:08:58.000
You read five of Plato's Dialogues, supposedly, and you haven't remembered one of them.
02:09:07.920
I've already said that I don't know the name of the books, but this is not the joke that
02:09:14.140
I think you're lying about your entire philosophy.
02:09:16.620
You guys can ask each other about books in just a moment.
02:09:25.740
He can name the three branches of the government.
02:09:34.820
So I pulled this one back up because I don't want to screw this guy over because he sent
02:09:41.060
If you guys can answer the question, do you disagree with the statement?
02:09:44.100
Society has lost the entire point of humanity, which is procreation and advance.
02:09:48.340
So do you guys agree that the entire point of humanity is procreation and advancing its
02:09:57.260
In an animalistic way, yes, that's like every species is continued procreating to keep it
02:10:08.600
But because we're not what you think of when you think of animals, because we're sentient,
02:10:14.540
I would say that sometimes that's just not every single person's goal.
02:10:22.920
Some people would be a shitty mother or father.
02:10:24.780
And frankly, we don't really need them in the gene pool, so to speak.
02:10:29.340
So if they don't want to procreate, then don't.
02:10:37.800
I don't really even understand the question, to be honest.
02:10:46.740
There's about five other chats we have to get through.
02:10:50.840
He says, the reason why it's relevant is you were trying to say the hebes of the OT are the same as now, which is a blatant lie.
02:11:00.380
You said King David is the same type of hebe as Jewish people nowadays, absolute airhead.
02:11:09.780
No, this is from the start of the conversation because he sent in another one.
02:11:20.100
Again, I wasn't denying that they were patrilineal for those like 30 years that he listed.
02:11:24.880
The issue is that then they were matrilineal after that.
02:11:32.880
He says, I'm so glad the sun dying isn't inevitable because it didn't happen by ancient Roman times.
02:11:42.420
So this is probably related to a different conversation we're having.
02:11:49.080
It's her argument that was so stupid about inevitability of feminism.
02:11:52.660
And I gave examples of history where societies didn't have it, thus showing that it wasn't necessary and inevitable, which you didn't understand.
02:12:15.720
Chair four, do you know how ridiculous you sound?
02:12:19.020
So you had no agency made to do something you never would have done on your own, but now you are on your own.
02:12:28.680
This is when you were saying your ex-boyfriend, he got you into, you said he was PIMPing you to do OF, basically.
02:12:36.720
I said that word because he was taking all my money.
02:12:43.560
I was too, but he was exploiting my body and taking the money from me.
02:12:49.780
But he's saying now that you're on your own, you still do the thing that you feel, I guess, bad about, is what he's trying to say?
02:12:58.840
I said that I did things when I was 19 and 20 that I would not have chose to do on my own.
02:13:04.880
Aren't you exploiting the viewers and taking their money?
02:13:15.840
So you had a choice in doing what you're doing, so you can't blame it on the guy then?
02:13:19.140
I literally, from the beginning, said I had a choice.
02:13:28.440
Looks like bought a, oh, this is shop.whatever.com.
02:13:42.720
He writes, I've been counting J's and Kayla's interruptions for each other.
02:13:52.340
This is from an hour ago, so it's probably outdated.
02:13:55.000
When a person is confident in their position, they're open to hearing the opponent's argument.
02:14:10.700
I'll give you $100 if you can name one of the five dialogues that you claim you've read.
02:14:15.800
I'll give you $200 if you can name a book that's Trilemma.
02:14:18.820
I've literally said six times that I can't name any of the books.
02:14:33.940
So Jim Bob can't talk about voting because he couldn't.
02:14:37.160
I never claimed to know anything about the government.
02:14:38.980
But you're debating about voting and about rights and about branches of government.
02:14:46.380
Would you admit that you've not read these things?
02:14:47.260
Would you admit that you've not read these things?
02:14:48.160
Would you admit that because I can't name books that I don't know what I'm talking about?
02:14:50.580
Usually people who've read the book remember titles.
02:14:53.400
Usually titles come to mind if you've read a book.
02:14:56.840
If you can't refute them without falling back to like how many books.
02:15:06.200
You're a sued who lies about what she's read and studied.
02:15:11.280
Better than lying about my degree when I can't define the difference between absolutism and objectivism.
02:15:18.040
Yeah, I didn't get tested on the name of the book.
02:15:19.760
I got tested on understanding what the difference is between these concepts.
02:15:43.400
So that wasn't exactly the best showing for a book I'm reading right now.
02:15:46.320
Yeah, book titles don't mean that you know things.
02:15:50.260
But it means that you've read the book or you were not.
02:15:55.440
Yeah, you're going to use it as a sick dunk later.
02:15:57.860
You're getting mad because you know you're on the spot.
02:16:07.040
But if I thought that you knew what you were talking about, I would engage the ideas.
02:16:10.560
Oh, so you're going to pretend you're performing as though you're actually trying to engage.
02:16:22.200
He did like an animation that like a missile like destroyed the screen.
02:16:25.260
And he was like, you literally triggered the army chick.
02:16:42.940
Bales, thank you for the gifted 20 subs over there.
02:17:03.040
And this is for other people who send in super chats.
02:17:05.840
You notice how it says 99 cents there at the end?
02:17:08.540
That almost always means you've sent it in through YouTube app.
02:17:12.340
On an iPhone, iPad, other Apple device, tablet, whatever.
02:17:17.080
What this means is Apple takes 30% of your super chat.
02:17:25.060
Meaning you're giving away 100 plus of this $200 super chat to YouTube and to Apple.
02:17:38.480
You're giving away more than half to the woke megacorps.
02:17:44.880
But if you want the majority of your patronage to go towards the show so we can actually make the show happen because we don't have sponsors, we don't do any of that shit, do it through Streamlabs.
02:17:55.260
Streamlabs.com slash whatever or Venmo, Cash App, whatever pod.
02:17:59.540
Lucas writes, you do realize that affluent traditional men are very discerning and exacting when it comes selecting for background values, gender roles, worldview, etc.
02:18:11.980
In other words, they're not selecting for a liberal woman with pronouns in her bio.
02:18:19.560
This is directed at you if you want to give a response.
02:18:24.900
I do struggle with, I guess, kind of going back to you, how the tattoos could attract a certain kind of person.
02:18:34.820
I am a musician, free-spirited, that's going to definitely attract very interesting people.
02:18:42.200
I don't really think in black and white so much.
02:18:44.840
And a lot of the conversation that's been going on right now is so black and white.
02:18:51.900
Really quick, Lucas has some more follow-ups, but I have a couple follow-ups of my own on this really quick.
02:18:57.460
Of all the men you've dated, do you prefer if they make the first move?
02:19:06.340
But like you said, you've been in like 10 situationships or something, maybe a dozen or whatever it was.
02:19:14.620
Who typically initiates when it comes to any of the romantic prospects that you have?
02:19:25.880
And of all the first dates you've been on, say, in the past six years, I understand that you're willing to pay for first dates,
02:19:32.840
but who actually ends up paying for the first date typically?
02:19:41.420
You've done it before, but of all the first dates you've been on, what percentage would you assign to it?
02:19:59.760
You said, do you want the guy to propose, I'm assuming?
02:20:07.340
And would you be upset if the ring was like a cubic zirconia off of Amazon?
02:20:12.760
Or would you want him to spend like a decent amount on the ring?
02:20:18.300
And then would you want him to get down on one knee to propose to you?
02:20:25.360
So just to be clear, so you want a guy to get down on one knee and then propose to you
02:20:34.240
and then spend the money on the ring, give it, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
02:20:37.520
Think, and would you want it to be kind of the proposal to be romantic?
02:20:42.300
Like you don't want him to just, where's the fucking ring?
02:20:48.660
You don't want the guy to just be like, you know, there's the ring.
02:21:16.760
I'm an old school guy and my old school traditional beliefs dictate that you need to take my last name.
02:21:23.760
So I think that's not a, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say yes.
02:21:28.480
I think at that point, we wouldn't get to that point.
02:21:35.080
Everything else, let's just grant that everything else besides that, you're compatible on.
02:21:41.760
And he's got like a, he's got a fucking hammer in the pants.
02:21:44.840
He's a billionaire and he's really good looking.
02:21:46.920
And he's also like going to put your music career to the moon.
02:21:55.240
I'll do like, I'll compromise on some of my shit for the perfect woman.
02:22:01.740
I'll compromise on my shit for, because bro, the perfect woman is rare.
02:22:06.940
So you, you won't even do the traditional thing that like billions of people have already done.
02:22:17.980
I still feel like personally, I would want to keep my last name regardless of the situation.
02:22:27.460
Why can't he hyphenate the diamond and get you a pseudo diamond?
02:22:34.760
Like, why does he have to get anything that's legit and real or do anything that's traditional
02:22:38.500
if like everything from your view is like half in, half out?
02:22:45.420
Would you at least concede that it's, it's just a uneven exchange?
02:22:49.660
What, I think what I'm kind of confused on is the importance behind taking a last name.
02:23:01.160
What about it is demeaning to you to take the name?
02:23:08.440
I never said, I didn't say it's because of feminism.
02:23:10.760
I'm sure there's feminists that would take the last name.
02:23:14.140
But what if like the last name's like really shitty?
02:23:24.520
If you're a trad woman and you want a trad guy and he's got the dumbest fucking last
02:23:37.040
I'm just saying like, okay, I'm going to be real with you.
02:23:40.820
If I was engaged with a guy and we got to that point and he's perfect, I'm going to be
02:23:53.060
I'm just saying that I would, I would like, it wouldn't be hard, but if it sucks, if literally
02:24:00.520
Like, let's say this was a last name, a Gilbert.
02:24:04.060
Like I would never be, I would never be with a guy named Gilbert, specifically Gilbert.
02:24:11.900
You will never catch me getting fucked by a guy and yelling Gilbert.
02:24:18.120
You give me kind of, I date dudes named Gilbert or Bartholomew vibes.
02:24:23.440
I mean, Bartholomew is kind of dope, but Gilbert, no, like, I'm sorry.
02:24:32.240
Uh, the, the guy's a trillion, the guy's the, the, the most handsome Italian ever.
02:24:43.220
Well, maybe there's trillionaires, but, um, but trillionaire.
02:24:46.880
Dude, I'll do some borderline weird shit for, if I can marry a woman who's a trillionaire,
02:24:54.000
I would do some borderline weird shit to make that happen.
02:24:58.240
You wouldn't change your last name for a trillionaire.
02:25:06.180
No, look, if it's a genuine, not even for a trillionaire, not even like thousand year dynasty fucking money, you'll, you won't.
02:25:15.320
Look, if that's, if the answer is genuinely, nah, I'm going to keep my last name.
02:25:19.820
If it doesn't affect my, uh, career, what I've built so far.
02:25:42.220
The sole condition is you got to change your last name, but you get a trillionaire.
02:25:46.920
And he's like a great guy and Italian or whatever the fuck.
02:26:08.840
I would say if all of the points you mentioned, I would be open to it.
02:26:17.120
Bro, if, if somebody comes up to me and be like, Brian, she's beautiful and perfect and
02:26:35.640
But I'm just asking you to do the traditional thing.
02:26:44.660
Because I think the reason why I'm hesitant is because you're, I feel like you're wanting
02:26:58.480
Like that's a very small percentage of that are ever happening.
02:27:02.820
As far as I, I mean, maybe there's like some people who aren't on the books or whatever.
02:27:05.820
Like I doubt that the situation, that specific situation you're talking about is a hypothetical.
02:27:11.640
So I'm, in the hypothetical, you get the perfect million, uh, trillionaire guy, but you have
02:27:21.740
Would you, I want to ask you, would you, uh, if your father asked you to change your last
02:27:27.880
name to your mother's maiden name, would you do that?
02:27:34.100
No, it's not, the question isn't why would it happen, but if for some weird reason, he
02:27:38.500
just wished it, he was like, I want you to change your last name to your mother's last
02:27:43.980
Would you like hold on to the tradition of carrying your father's last name?
02:27:48.740
I think, yeah, of course it's, I'm 28 years of my identities behind Vargas.
02:27:53.640
Like, why would I just completely change it over to my mom's maiden name?
02:27:59.420
So like, you're, you're just, you're holding on to something that's actually traditional.
02:28:03.460
The very thing that you're defending would be the thing that you're, that, that the future
02:28:12.680
So like you're saying, you're saying like the tradition of man's name, I'm going to hold,
02:28:16.560
like, I love that tradition, but part of the tradition of the man's name is that it
02:28:20.680
actually changes the daughter's name in the, in the future.
02:28:23.800
So your, your future kids, imagine a future you going, I'm so glad mommy took daddy's
02:28:36.420
So, okay, let's bring it about, make it about your career.
02:28:45.380
But he asks, I, I don't want you to do your career.
02:28:48.820
And that's the condition for you being with him.
02:28:52.360
You can still privately, you can't do anything public facing with music, but privately, if,
02:28:58.600
if it's a passion of yours, you can like make dope beats in your bedrooms or like multiple
02:29:03.700
bedrooms that, cause you're a trillionaire now.
02:29:05.400
Uh, would you be willing to give up your career ambitions for a perfect trillionaire?
02:29:15.060
Hold, but wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, a couple of follow up questions here.
02:29:18.600
What, your career, to what end is the purpose of your career?
02:29:23.540
To connect, to have a message and connect with others.
02:29:42.140
I think you want credit because here's the thing.
02:29:48.840
He builds you a studio and you create all these, all this music.
02:29:53.280
It's just that people don't know who you are, but they love your music.
02:29:57.920
You know, everything you imagine from your music is, is happening, but they just don't
02:30:12.580
So the question is if the man gives her a mansion and a, you know, a sick ass basement
02:30:18.740
studio, she pumps out the music she loves because now she has the time to do it.
02:30:35.400
So what you're saying is she has the impact that she wants to have, but nobody knows it's
02:30:41.520
That's why I think it's a pride thing, like an ego thing and not an actual, like you're
02:30:47.980
Well, if you did that without the credit, there are many people who change people, uh, philanthropists.
02:30:53.420
They never say who they are, but your image of your success is so, it's really wholly, uh,
02:31:14.680
Wait, but even, I mean, even in Jim, Jim Bob's question is really interesting though,
02:31:19.640
because it's not necessarily like you would still achieve all the things, but it would
02:31:24.940
So ultimately you want like the validation and the credit for doing so.
02:31:28.560
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong for wanting credit for like achievement.
02:31:32.580
I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
02:31:34.040
No, there's nothing wrong inherently, but in this scenario where you're being presented
02:31:37.940
on a silver platter, the perfect man, not just the perfect man, but he's also a trillionaire,
02:31:42.500
which essentially would like your, your thousand year dynasty is secured like forever.
02:31:54.600
And I mean, that in and of itself would be kind of like some sort of social status or
02:32:04.220
Oh, I had a, I'm trying to think about my fault.
02:32:07.720
So you wouldn't give up your career for the perfect guy who's a trillionaire.
02:32:15.840
So you're not some, I mean, you wouldn't be submissive then.
02:32:19.120
Why would a man that I would ever be around want for me to give up the biggest thing of
02:32:28.300
Because if that, if your career, let's, let's say you make it.
02:32:31.540
Isn't it the case that like a traditional man wouldn't want the mother of his children
02:32:36.380
flying to city to city doing performances at massive stadiums and that kind of life?
02:32:42.060
Like, but again, that's like the black and white mentality that we're talking about.
02:32:46.100
Like you could still be like traditional as for marriage and kids and be okay with a
02:33:04.000
I think her answer to here is fundamentally she wouldn't pick those men.
02:33:06.720
Like probably the worst thing that's happening here is she's saying that she wants a
02:33:09.680
traditional man when really she kind of wants like a modern man who's like more
02:33:13.540
masculine than he is feminine so that she's still like finds him attractive.
02:33:18.660
I could be wrong, but like what you're describing to me is like what you really
02:33:30.080
I don't think we're disputing that like there are guys who exist who date like
02:33:33.360
hyper successful women, for example, like famous female musicians.
02:33:37.760
Uh, they are in relationships with men and these men tolerate to some degree the, their
02:33:51.160
And for example, a woman could be like the most modern promiscuous, like thousand body
02:33:57.480
count, whatever, all these like negative characteristics that you wouldn't typically
02:34:02.580
And she could still like have a standard and want men to pay for first dates, which
02:34:06.660
is like a traditional dynamic and she can very well get it.
02:34:10.720
I don't think anybody here disputes like, okay, you could be like the most degenerate
02:34:15.000
and modern woman ever and still get guys to pay for, uh, for dates for you.
02:34:20.600
We're having like sort of a bird's eye conversation about that.
02:34:29.680
I think, I think a lot of modern dating standards that are erected are, are essentially unfair
02:34:35.740
I think a lot of times we, there are very much as this energy of like having your cake
02:34:41.300
Um, and I, and I think that comes from this idea of like some level of a gender opportunism
02:34:45.820
where you kind of want all the things that traditionalism benefits the woman, but you don't
02:34:51.520
And I think when you're, when you're doing that cost analysis, then you need to like
02:34:54.680
actually, and look at these traditional structures and go, what value does it add to me?
02:35:02.360
Cause otherwise you're kind of putting things on other people that you're not willing, willing
02:35:06.340
I want to add to that, that men, there are men out there, uh, not to like put all the sort
02:35:11.240
of red pillars in one basket here, but just to generalize is there's this trend of men
02:35:16.000
who are pushing for this like traditional expectation and they're catching the chicks in this
02:35:20.500
contradiction. Oh, double standard. I would argue that those, a lot of those men aren't
02:35:25.960
themselves submissive to something bigger. And so they're, they're actually not consistent
02:35:31.180
either. So they're expecting these women to fall in line and submit to them. And there's
02:35:39.340
And they're not respect worthy a lot of time either.
02:35:40.860
Well, yeah, there's nothing, it's like this sort of like, I'm a man demand it, but there's
02:35:45.440
nothing that's informing them. And, and I, I can't say it enough that if you're a man
02:35:50.300
out there and you're, you kind of have this like sentiment of traditionalism, uh, and, and
02:35:56.740
you want the woman to submit to you, if she doesn't see you submit to something higher,
02:36:02.280
there's no reflection that she can see of why she ought to submit to you. All she sees is
02:36:08.380
a man saying, submit cause a man, right? And that's kind of the rhetoric we hear. That's
02:36:12.920
why I, that's why I advocate for Christianity. Cause that will make that all of that makes
02:36:17.020
sense. You'll, you'll understand a proper, uh, system of submission through Christianity.
02:36:22.380
And, and without that, I don't think it exists. It's literally like, um, like what's the alternative?
02:36:28.000
It's like a kind of like a, just a militant structure. You know, it's just like, uh, it's
02:36:33.560
like working for a company where you're just like, you work for my company now. It's like,
02:36:37.440
that's not enough for women to submit. So any of you men are confused. Why aren't they
02:36:42.060
submitting? They don't, they're not understanding the, the lens through which submission is a
02:36:47.620
virtue. Yeah. I mean, like, I think if you're in a secular lens, if I like apply to a secular
02:36:52.140
lens, I think for a lot of men, like the reason that I submit to my husband, husband, isn't
02:36:56.560
just because I'm like, I feel like that's spiritually meaningful for me, right? It's an important thing
02:37:00.880
in my, in my faith to do, but I do it because Nick is the most respect worthy person I know in
02:37:07.640
my life. Like I, I, I delight to listen to him because I, I trust him. Um, that's why
02:37:12.740
I picked him. That's why he picked me is because I respect him and there's that mutual love and
02:37:17.700
respect. And so I think for a lot of men, even if you're not religious and they're expecting
02:37:21.940
the submission from women, it's like, what is there to respect here? Like, do you have
02:37:25.600
any higher values that you're submitting to? Do you have any like quality of character that
02:37:29.380
you're trying to submit to yourself? Like, is there any ethics or like moral character that
02:37:33.460
you are putting yourself to that essentially you're submitting to whether it's like ideally
02:37:38.600
God or not God? Just for the viewers. Word. Uh, wait, uh, one final question on this and
02:37:49.600
I'll move it on. So I guess we'll start with you. I'll ask everyone on the panel, would you
02:37:56.980
rather have a high status career, but make no money or a low status career, but makes
02:38:03.320
a a hundred thousand dollars a year? Low status. Okay. So you'd go with a hundred. Okay. What
02:38:08.620
about you? Uh, so let's say it could be like lawyer versus like, can I just pick my ideal
02:38:14.120
is the question? Like what's my ideal job versus? Sure. Yeah. It'll your idea of like a high
02:38:18.500
status job. Yeah. I would take like a high status job with zero pay over the low status job.
02:38:23.180
A hundred thousand. Okay. What about you? Low status? Low. Can you say the question again?
02:38:29.600
Yeah. So high status job, but you make no money. Can you give an example of a high status job?
02:38:33.540
Yeah. Like lawyer. Well, like no money, like zero. Like slavery. Yeah. You make no money,
02:38:39.280
but you're like a lawyer. More like volunteer work. Okay. I'm actually confused. What is the high
02:38:45.660
status aspect to if it's not money? Like what's a high status job that doesn't pay money? If it's
02:38:52.700
not money, what is the status? Is it like visibility or like you're on a reality show?
02:38:57.380
Like you're, you're, everyone knows you, you're famous, but you have no money. So for example,
02:39:00.800
I could see like a plumber and a lawyer, both of those jobs making the same amount of money.
02:39:05.140
But I think most people's like assessment of that would be like the lawyer is more prestigious
02:39:09.460
than like a plumber. All right. You know, if that, if that kind of makes sense, that makes more
02:39:13.800
sense. Well, even if they make the same amount, I guess, um, just for the sake of, Hey,
02:39:18.680
I got to put, you know, I have a roof. I need to pay for a roof over my head. I would pick the low
02:39:23.620
status stuff that actually pays versus having like this giant sphere of influence, but like,
02:39:27.900
I can't get money. What about you? But you just said they're making the same amount of money.
02:39:33.580
It's just, no, I was just, I was explaining the status component, like how there could be a
02:39:37.480
differential of status between two jobs who do make the same amount of money. Into the mic,
02:39:43.200
into the mic. I would agree with her. I would do low status. Okay. All right. Yeah. I was just
02:39:49.100
curious about it. And that's interesting. I mean, it's something to add. Like when I say high status,
02:39:53.100
I'm just picturing like my dream role that I'm occupying, like doing my dream is like running
02:39:57.880
a treatment center. Right. So it's like, if that's what you mean, but I'm making no money
02:40:01.080
and I'm assuming in this world, I'm magically also like covering my bills. I would love to do that.
02:40:06.220
If you're saying I can't do that and cover my bills and I guess fuck we're a little bit tied to
02:40:10.440
money, aren't we? Can someone explain like, what does orbs mean? Like it keeps like orbo or like
02:40:16.080
what? It's from my audience. So it's an inside joke from my audience because I had a drama with
02:40:23.340
a dude who believes that orbs like show up on his live streams and we had this big fallout. So now
02:40:28.580
all my audience makes fun of him. We're talking about orbs. Like paranormal orbs. Yes. Oh,
02:40:34.020
that's so funny. Now we have Lucas here with his followup as a follow on. I think it's fair to say
02:40:38.900
that traditional men capable of fully providing for a household are not looking for a hot mess
02:40:44.820
project. Rather, they're looking for a wife already inculcated with and fully aligned with
02:40:51.080
the family dynamic outlined by Ephesians 522. And we have Lucas following up again. Yikes,
02:40:58.360
not taking your husband's last name. Well, maybe it's a Greek cultural thing, but that would be
02:41:03.700
aching to my wife slinging a pod of turds at my entire family. Much like not naming my son after
02:41:10.560
my dad. Chapter six. Oh, chair six. Good luck finding that traditional masculine feminist man.
02:41:17.100
Oh, that's you, chair six. So what if he said he'll take your name? Be icky, right?
02:41:22.960
That wouldn't happen. I wouldn't. Why? What if you found a wild guy? Does that actually happen?
02:41:29.100
Yeah. I actually have a friend. Yeah. I have a friend who took his wife's time. Sometimes guys
02:41:33.420
take girl names. I didn't know that. I would, if he really wants to, why not? Okay. Important
02:41:40.880
question. If her last name's better. I mean, if his last name is like Gaylord and like her last name's
02:41:45.540
Megatron, I'm going to pick Megatron. Are you taking a new last name? Like if you get it,
02:41:49.540
if you have an opportunity to like flee the Epstein name, are you doing it? That would
02:41:53.980
be the man's determination. Or any steam. Yeah, yeah, of course. But I'm asking like,
02:41:56.700
would you guys be like, if you were last named Epstein and you had an opportunity, like would
02:42:00.880
you change your name? Oh, are you saying like not within the context of marriage, just like
02:42:04.800
would you change your last name? Sure. I'm also making a meme, but yeah.
02:42:08.740
Yeah. If a guy wanted to change his last name for whatever, I think that's fine. Yeah.
02:42:15.640
That's fair. That's fine. Is she just like supposed to change her name to Epstein?
02:42:20.540
If, if he, if she's in a relationship with him and that's his given last name and he
02:42:25.240
desires to keep it and he's a traditional guy and his traditional expectation is you're
02:42:29.720
going to take my last name, then yeah, she's going to change it. And name the son Jeffrey
02:42:32.680
too. Got to go with it. We have, we have some chats here. We have Belial. He just says hi
02:42:40.580
to, hey to Hyacin. Oh, hi. Is this your homie? Yeah. Thank you. Belial. Thank you. Appreciate
02:42:47.420
it. Then we have Sean coming in here. It's going to take a moment to pull up. Agrippa's
02:42:52.900
trilemma posits that any attempt to justify belief leads to infinite regress, dogmatism or
02:42:59.100
circularity. Coherent, coherentism is an epistemological theory that can attempt to solve
02:43:07.240
this. But it doesn't. Well, you say that, but you have evidence that you're not aware
02:43:12.200
of the basics. So we're not going to listen to anything you say about philosophy when
02:43:15.220
you can't name one book from Plato. You can't because you haven't read it. Just admit that
02:43:23.360
you haven't read it. I have read it. I don't remember the title. If you would like to engage
02:43:27.840
with my ideas, you're welcome to. If you just want to fall back on this, you can. You're
02:43:32.260
a sued. I'm not a sued. I've read them. But you can't name one of them. No, but I do want
02:43:36.840
to engage with my ideas. Because you haven't read them. Again, this is not the dunk. Your ideas
02:43:40.880
are not worthwhile because you're a sued. At least I'm not lying about having a degree in
02:43:46.380
philosophy, I guess. Because if you did, you could definitely tell us the difference between
02:43:50.040
absolutism and objectivism. I gave you the explanation of the difference. You said they're
02:43:54.700
synonymous. In the context, in terms of intentionality, how I'm using it, they can be
02:44:00.000
synonymous. Do you know that words can be... What a weasel answer. That's crazy. The word kid,
02:44:06.340
can it mean two different things? Oh, so your answer to what's the difference between
02:44:10.460
absolutism and objectivism is equivocating. That's amazing. Honestly. Can the word kid
02:44:15.400
mean two different things? Power level. You have the highest power level. Can the word kid
02:44:18.020
mean two different things? Yeah, of course. Okay. So words are dependent on their context.
02:44:23.500
Yeah. So you're answering the definitional question here by equivocating. The word
02:44:27.840
subjective... You don't know what equivocation is. Equivocating, just so you guys know, is
02:44:30.340
when you take a word with multiple meanings and you use them differently within the same premise
02:44:34.640
so that you can muddy the conversation and make it hard. So he's acting like absolutism when we're
02:44:38.920
talking about as a definition. It's just his personal definition that he's thinking of
02:44:42.440
in the moment. When I'm obviously asking about the school of absolutism versus the school of
02:44:47.180
objectivism. Obviously. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about your argument. That's what I am
02:44:51.140
asking you about. But I don't care because I was critiquing your argument. Good one. Good one, Jay.
02:44:58.380
Yeah. So all the yapping wasn't addressing the critique. Again, if you just want to deal with the terms,
02:45:03.720
I'm asking you to define the difference between absolutism and absolutism. Five Plato books you said
02:45:08.080
you've read and you can't name one because you lied. At least I know the difference between these
02:45:13.180
two concepts. So you're admitting you lied. Nope. You didn't lie. Nope. But you can't name one of
02:45:18.000
the five. Nope. The most famous philosophical text in history, Plato's Dialogues. And when I read
02:45:23.880
through it in school, it comes in the five dialogues. So I didn't memorize the specific books within each
02:45:27.820
of them. And you can't name one of them. Of the five dialogues? Nope. But can you define the difference
02:45:32.120
between absolutism and objectivism? And you don't understand the topics that you're talking
02:45:34.540
about. Because I don't think you can. Because you can't, you don't understand what you're
02:45:37.620
talking about. You're a C. Plato, Kant, you don't see the difference there? There's no
02:45:41.680
difference. Name one book of Kant. Do you want me to help you? It starts with a C. One of the
02:45:46.460
Kant books that's famous starts with a C. Same way that... I don't know it. Right. Because you
02:45:51.320
haven't read it. You said I've read three Kant books. Describe stuff. Because you haven't read it.
02:45:57.500
I'm sorry. Just admit you haven't read it. I have read them. Just be honest. The whole internet,
02:46:01.600
you haven't. Because they're famous. Okay. Are we just going to circle this forever? And anybody in this
02:46:05.300
domain would know. Do you want to engage with my ideas or do you want to keep citing book titles?
02:46:09.220
You remember the book that you read recently and its title?
02:46:13.260
Eventually I did. Right. Yeah. But you can't remember the most famous books in philosophy. Yeah. Don't go
02:46:16.980
around memorizing book names. You're right. In future debates, I'll do my best to memorize book
02:46:21.400
names. Do you want to deal with my ideas yet? Or do you just want to keep on being bad faith to try to get
02:46:26.600
one philosophy book from any of the philosophers? One philosophy book? Plato's Republic. Okay. Did
02:46:32.780
you read that? No, I actually didn't. Okay. Can you name one you've read? Off the top of my dome?
02:46:38.720
Not right now. Because you haven't read the subject matter and you came to debate.
02:46:42.520
Oh, Nietzsche's. What's it called? Nietzsche's. What's it called? I'm trying to remember. The God is
02:46:48.140
dead. He goes through the structures. I mean, if I can list. Do you want me to list what's within the books?
02:46:53.020
Okay. The Nietzsche book where he talks about structures and inheritance, ubermensch,
02:46:57.900
undermensch, and he talks about this. The Spoke. I'm going to help you? That's not the book that I
02:47:01.940
read. That's not the one I'm citing. The Spoke. The Spoke. I'm giving you the first words of Nietzsche
02:47:07.700
books. The anti- I don't know why you think this is a dunk. Because you don't know any of the subjects
02:47:13.320
that you're trying to debate. Do you want to engage with the ideas or do you want to fall back on books?
02:47:15.380
You said that I don't know philosophy. You called it to question my degree and you can't name a single
02:47:20.660
philosophy book. You're a fraud. I'm not claiming to have a degree in philosophy. No, you said I was a
02:47:24.260
fraud. I think you're a fraud because you can't- But you can't name one book. You don't know the
02:47:27.100
difference between ad question and objectivism, which you absolutely- Name a book. Name one
02:47:30.700
philosophical book, you idiot. Question. I already did. You lied. I already did. No, you didn't.
02:47:34.820
You gave me one. Name one. I just did. You've read. None. Zero. I've read parts of Thus Speaks
02:47:41.180
Their Sustra. Does that count for you? Because I helped you with the title. Again, I can go through like the book
02:47:46.160
that I'm thinking of Nietzsche and like what it is. This just isn't the dunk that it is. And what's the philosophy
02:47:50.080
that he outlined? As a pro-debater, you should be able to engage with ideas and not have to hide
02:47:54.580
behind titles. In Thus Speaks Zarathustra, what's he lay out? I can't remember all of it. I already said
02:47:59.980
that I only read parts of it. What view of history? What? What view of history does he lay out in
02:48:04.620
Thus Speaks? Because you haven't read it. You're a liar. I said I read parts of it. Because you're a liar.
02:48:08.580
Bro, you're so horny for this. You don't know the basics of the book? You're so horny for this.
02:48:11.680
You don't know the basics. Why are you so mad? Again, I don't remember the titles of any of these books
02:48:16.740
that I've read. If you'd like to engage with the ideas that we're talking about, I would love to do
02:48:21.020
that. Can you define it? Name one subject. Name one subject. The difference between absolutism and
02:48:25.200
objectivism. Just once. This is just like not the object dunk you think it is. Again, I have read the
02:48:32.560
books. You have no knowledge of philosophy at all. I don't remember what they're called. You don't know
02:48:35.960
any of them because you didn't read them. You are failing because you lied. I'm not failing. You're a liar.
02:48:42.500
I'm really mad because I think this time, like compared to last week, I got sleep and you're
02:48:47.760
so mad about it. Oh, now it's, see how did you get sleep? I can't remember. Yeah, I flew back from
02:48:52.180
Israel, was up for 30 hours straight, got three hours of sleep and then flew here. I can't hear a book
02:48:57.160
I read. I don't know what book. But you're going to call me out as a fraud. Well, you don't know the
02:49:02.120
difference between absolutism and objectivism. You're going to call me out as a fraud and you have zero
02:49:06.260
knowledge of the subject. And I would hope that you would know it. You failed. Citing books doesn't mean that
02:49:10.100
you're educated. It means that you don't know anything about it. There's lots of people who
02:49:13.220
read books and memorize names that are fucking retarded from the philosophy. This is obviously
02:49:16.920
true. You lied. I don't know how long we want to keep working on this. No, I did not admit that.
02:49:24.540
I have not lied. You couldn't name one book or the subject matter of the books. I've already said
02:49:28.520
I've named one book that's a fucking philosophy book. What's it about? After I helped you. I already
02:49:33.560
said that I didn't read Plato's Republic. What is those things there? I already said I don't remember
02:49:38.700
the part specifically. I remember cracking the book and reading a bit of it. Thank you for
02:49:41.940
admitting I have no knowledge of philosophy. That's not true at all. I don't know why you
02:49:45.240
need to straw man. I don't need to read any philosophy books. God, I keep losing this debate to this
02:49:49.740
stupid woman that I keep interrupting. I have no knowledge. I don't know. All this book titles.
02:49:53.860
I have no knowledge. That'll get her. She's perking out. She's perking out. How old are you again?
02:49:57.900
Like 40 something? She's perking out. I have no knowledge of the subject matter. Aren't you like 40?
02:50:02.160
Yeah. That's again. Oh, so going to go at hominem now?
02:50:05.220
And you've been waiting from crazy to side at home. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
02:50:11.280
Y'all shut up. You've been literally insulting her the entire time. I don't care what you think.
02:50:15.920
I don't care. You've been insulting her the entire time. You've been calling her an idiot. Look,
02:50:19.500
I'm not saying look. Listen, I'm going to come and debate you, but I'm going to question your
02:50:23.440
military history. No. Okay. Sure. Can I do that? No. Yeah. Hold on. You're not in the military.
02:50:27.120
Yes, I am. 1000%. Right? Sergeant. Yep. See? No, but hold on. That's what she did.
02:50:33.100
What I'm trying to say. Bro, why did you? Oh, I thought. Okay. Hold on. Let me like finish
02:50:36.640
my fucking point. Don't pass out the. Okay. Go ahead. It's okay. Oh my God. Okay. Let
02:50:41.640
me finish my point. Are you sure you don't have fake titties, bro? Wow. I'm just. Let
02:50:47.640
me like answer the fucking question. Can I, can I say my point for once? For once in my
02:50:51.300
life, can I speak? Go ahead. All right. So imagine if I had no knowledge. Oh my God. Can I?
02:50:56.760
Listen, I'm going to, I'm going to give an example of something. Can I please just, I
02:51:01.040
just want to say one thing. You guys can go back to whatever the fuck you're doing. I
02:51:04.520
would love to stop. She's a fraud. One thing. I want to ask you a question. Can I just say
02:51:08.760
one thing? Okay. I already forgot what I was going to say. Give me a second. Give me a fucking
02:51:12.280
second. Okay. I said. Exactly. No, that's literally. Oh yeah. Yeah. You've been calling her
02:51:19.680
an idiot the entire time. Cause she is. She lied. She got caught lying. Stop. Okay. She got caught
02:51:24.180
lying. No, that's an insult. Okay. Thank you. Well, you're insulting her and now you're
02:51:29.020
talking about. Because she lied. So if I, hold on. So it's okay to lie. No, it's not
02:51:34.040
okay to lie, but I'm saying like, damn, you're acting like. I didn't lie. You haven't read
02:51:38.120
these subjects. She threw one punch at you. You haven't read the books. She threw one punch
02:51:43.520
at you and now you're like, why are you hitting me? Why are you hitting me? It's like, bro,
02:51:46.880
you've been hitting her like 50 times in a row. No, that's not what happened. So imagine
02:51:50.100
if I come to you and I say, I don't know anything about the military, but you're not
02:51:54.960
in the military. You're a frog. What would you say? I would say. Whoa. You can question
02:52:00.680
my experience where I went to basically, my MOS weapon in the world and I can answer it off
02:52:06.240
the fly. I don't have to make shit up. Exactly. That's not a point to me at all. If you have
02:52:12.080
this background. You said that I don't know these things. Jay, you got to pause. You
02:52:14.500
couldn't name a book. You couldn't name a book. Or I'm just going to keep talking over
02:52:17.160
you at this point because you will not stop interrupting. You failed. You wouldn't even
02:52:20.360
let this woman speak. You failed. Breathe. You failed. Jay, breathe. You're a fraud. You
02:52:25.100
got called lying. This doesn't make you look good. Your debate career is over. Again. You
02:52:29.340
fraud. You've lost every debate. How dare you? Brian, I will call you out for things we
02:52:33.400
talked about yesterday. If you go there, don't do it. Come on, I'm bantering. Don't do
02:52:36.940
it. I'm bantering. Okay. I haven't read these books. That's what you want to hear, but that's
02:52:41.780
just not true. I have read the books, but I can't cite the titles. Or what's in them?
02:52:46.760
Or what's in them? If you have a degree in philosophy. Or what's in them? Actually, I
02:52:49.080
went through the Nietzsche book and cited a number of things. And you couldn't tell me
02:52:51.540
what's in it? What's in it? No, I can't remember. What's in the spake there? What's in it?
02:52:56.360
I already, Jesus fucking Christ. So you don't know. Yeah, now you're cussing and melting
02:52:59.860
down because you don't know. You lied. You got caught lying. First of all, calling me melting
02:53:02.440
down is crazy right now. No, you're melting down. Second of all, I've already acknowledged all
02:53:08.440
of your questions. I've answered them honestly. I don't remember the titles. I have read them.
02:53:11.560
So you lied because you said you've read those things. And you still won't answer what the
02:53:15.680
difference is between absolutism and objectivism. Did you lie? Objectivism is. Did you lie?
02:53:19.860
Because you know how silly it makes you look. Did you lie? Did you lie? And if you have
02:53:22.680
a fill degree. I don't owe you an answer when you're not. So I have a psych degree. You're
02:53:26.460
not competent. And say you're calling me on psych. Now you're citing your degrees. No
02:53:28.940
one cares. That doesn't give you philosophy knowledge. I would love to. You're not competent in
02:53:32.900
this. Or you're incompetent. Say my piece. I don't owe you a debate on that subject.
02:53:38.020
You invited me here. You fucking retarded. You accepted it. You didn't want to talk to
02:53:42.720
me. You're the retarded because you accepted it. No, not at all. I'm not the one getting
02:53:45.180
mad at you and saying like, I won't engage with you. You accepted a debate and lost. You're
02:53:50.180
the retard. Sorry. R word off the table. Restart it. Say restart it. Just to make sure. Is
02:53:55.900
the R word off the word? I think we should. I think we try to avoid it. But sometimes the
02:53:59.580
R word is warranted. So I'll give the R word pass for now. I'll give a pass for that.
02:54:05.440
But gotcha. Okay. So the issue is that if we were talking about say psychology, I have
02:54:10.120
a degree in psychology and you thought that I was incorrect about something. Nothing to
02:54:13.440
do with this. I'm giving you an analogy. You can follow Jay. You can follow along. It's
02:54:17.520
okay. Breathe. We don't care about psychology degrees. If you're such a great debater, you
02:54:21.380
can handle a question. It's not relevant. You just want to yap because you want to try
02:54:24.740
to save your, you dug a hole. Okay. There are two options for this panel at this point. I
02:54:28.020
can continue my talking point. You can breathe and you can let me speak or we move on to
02:54:32.160
something different so that the audience and everyone at the table can have something
02:54:35.160
different. I love that. You are 200 IQ, Kyla. Thank you. We're going to move it on. We're
02:54:40.480
moving it on. Good suggestion. We have Lucas here with the chat. Oh, God. No. Lucas, you're
02:54:46.840
killing me. Since you claim to have read Plato's Republic, can you tell me what Plato described
02:54:51.800
as the noble lie? I said that I did not read it. This is basic, basic stuff. Okay. She didn't
02:54:55.060
read it. I didn't read it. Thank you, Lucas, for the message. Lies. Thank you, Lucas, for
02:54:58.160
the message. Lies about knowing. Lies about philosophy. You're lying when you said that
02:55:01.700
you didn't read it. You actually did it. You have to know how to fight it all. Okay.
02:55:04.460
So, anyways, anyways, we have Stifler here. Ask everyone to rate their own looks on a scale
02:55:10.760
of one to ten. You can't pick seven. Starting with you. Into the mic. I think that's the most
02:55:19.460
superficial question to ever ask. Do I need to answer? Yes. Go ahead. I'll do seven because
02:55:25.740
I can't pick. What? You can't pick seven. You're not going to pick ten? Just give them
02:55:31.420
one. It makes them really mad. Hey, Kyle. Not going to pick ten? I'm going to pick one.
02:55:42.340
Imagine if every person would want to be Stifler. No, give us the real answer, though.
02:55:48.480
Why would that not be... Okay. So, just to be clear. So, if you say one, for example,
02:55:51.900
like, so, if the scale is, like, one is, like, the most ugliest person ever, and ten
02:55:55.700
is, like, beautiful, like, super beautiful, prettiest woman you've ever seen, uh, where
02:56:01.340
do you put yourself on the scale? Um... One eternity later. Um... Six. Okay. What
02:56:14.300
about you? I don't know, like, an eight? I don't know. Okay. What about you? Six. With
02:56:20.760
makeup, a six, without a five. Answer. With makeup, an eight, without makeup, like, a five
02:56:26.600
as well. A six. Okay. Jim Bob? 6.9. Every time. Jay? Scale of one to ten on looks? Um... Eleven.
02:56:36.200
Jay, you got it. Come on, Jay. Give us... I'm just joking. Give us, uh... Into the mic if
02:56:42.500
you can. Just looks. Yes. Uh... Eight. I give myself... I give myself a, uh... A five. I give
02:56:59.360
myself a five. Okay. That was cool. Hold on. Um... Jim Bob, can you ask a question real quick? I need
02:57:05.420
to just get up for a moment. What? I need to get up for a moment. Oh, well, is it, it's
02:57:09.400
gonna come up? Oh, just ask any questions? Yes. Ask a question. Well, I hate to bring
02:57:12.900
it back to this, but... You should probably ask the panel. No. Um... I wanted to go back
02:57:17.500
to something about the GDP just briefly. Um... Oh, you're killing us, Jim Bob. If it's the
02:57:23.500
case that the GDP of a nation is the product of a many individual households and their productivity,
02:57:30.860
each individual, uh, household and their productivity, like, if they are seeing that as the value, if
02:57:41.340
the, if it's all tragic, okay, if each individual urge, their urge, their drive to produce is
02:57:50.260
tragic, but it actually produces a high GDP, aren't you arguing for a tragic society of
02:57:56.680
individuals? Uh, nope. Okay. So, GDP is not really tied to, like, the productivity of a
02:58:01.220
household. It's the, it's essentially all the goods that are finalized within a country. So,
02:58:06.520
it's not really about a household because, for example, um, if you're, like, a mid, if you're
02:58:10.780
a factory worker, you're not, like, contributing to the, the calculated GDP in, like, a super direct
02:58:15.660
way. So, it's not, like, a total one-to-one. I understand your point, though, so I'll rant where
02:58:20.140
you're, kind of, going with this. Um, the, it's, so, the answer was an ecological fallacy, which I can
02:58:26.420
just explain now. It's this idea where you take, like, a normative claim for a group and then you
02:58:30.540
apply it to an individual. So, the normative claim that, like, GDP is broadly good for a nation,
02:58:34.520
that's my normative broad claim. And what you're doing is you're being, like, isn't that good for
02:58:38.760
the individual? You're engaging in an ecological fallacy because at an individual level, right,
02:58:43.140
what I'm talking about when I'm saying it's a tragedy is this, like, sad thing to me where
02:58:48.740
genuinely most of the moral value that we put on men is the money that they produce. This happens
02:58:54.640
a lot in dating and I think that that's something that's unfair to do to men, particularly in an
02:58:58.700
economy where every single person has to be working anyways and we don't attach the same level of moral
02:59:03.180
value to women, uh, based on the money that they're making. So, I think it's a tragedy in that way. I
02:59:07.960
don't think it's bad to, like, pursue commerce or try to make money or anything like that. That's not
02:59:11.920
the tragedy. It's when I look at a man and I determine his value based on the size of his wallet. I think
02:59:17.220
that's not a good thing, but that doesn't mean GDP is not good. Wait, so you think it's a tragedy
02:59:21.740
to expect men to be providers? Is that a follow-up? Nope. I think it's a tragedy to attach the only
02:59:29.960
value of a man to the money that he makes. I think men bring more than money. Okay, only. Okay. Yeah.
02:59:35.520
I think men bring character. They're people. They have personalities, right? They're interesting.
02:59:40.840
Do you think it's a tragedy for a woman to look first for, uh, money? I think what it does-
02:59:47.280
Top of the list, I mean? Yeah. I actually think it's, I think it leads women to bad relationships
02:59:50.900
a lot and dissatisfied relationships, but it's a very much like, again, it's kind of gender
02:59:55.360
opportunism where they're like, man, I really hate traditionalism except when it benefits me. Um,
03:00:00.600
so I, I generally would advise women to like value that less. You should look for more like upward
03:00:05.840
mobility. Like if you, if money is about how hard you work, you should look for how hard you work
03:00:11.060
and upward mobility, not your set income. I love that for you. Thanks. I know why you're
03:00:17.820
flirting with me. Oh my goodness, Brian. Uh, I'm not sure if that's what, what just happened there,
03:00:22.920
but, uh, I'll accept it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh, okay. So we did this, uh, finishing up on this
03:00:28.940
though. We have a follow-up question. What do you, uh, no, actually, do you think you'll be better
03:00:34.940
looking in 10 years time, better looking in 10 years time? So yeah, you're, you're 28. Will you
03:00:39.980
be better looking at 38? No. Okay. And then you're 28 now. Do you think you're better? Look,
03:00:44.800
you're better looking now or were you better looking at 18? I'm better looking now. Better
03:00:48.980
looking now. Okay. Kyla, you're 31 better. Do you think you'll be better looking in 10 years time at
03:00:53.040
41? No. Okay. And then were you better looking at 21 versus now at 31? Uh, I had my glow up at like 23.
03:01:00.880
So yeah. So better looking at 21. Okay. You're 21. No, no, no. Better looking at 31. Oh,
03:01:05.620
better looking now. Okay. You're 21 better looking in 10 years time at 31. No. Okay. You're 24 better
03:01:11.280
looking in 10 years time at 34. Not without surgery. Not without surgery. Okay. Lots of stuff.
03:01:18.700
You're 25 better looking in 10 years time at 35. Yes. Uh, 20 years time, 45. Oh, oh shit. It's still me. Um,
03:01:26.860
wait, yeah. I thought you like, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. The both. Yes. Okay. Uh, 30 years time,
03:01:35.520
55. Will you be better looking? Yes. Uh, 40 years time, 65. Yes. 50 years time, 75. Yes.
03:01:45.300
I love you. Uh, 60. My math is, uh, 60 years time, 85. Yes. Are these like genuine answers or
03:01:59.040
are you just kind of trolling? Uh, these are genuine answers. Okay. So just, okay. Uh, I'll
03:02:05.020
just max it out then. Will you be better looking at 105 versus now at 25? Probably not. Okay. So
03:02:10.720
where's your peak then? 85. Your, your peak is 85. Okay. It is. Got it. No, I'm not trolling. I
03:02:18.740
just, you, you, so just to be clear, you genuinely think that you'll be better looking in 60 years
03:02:25.780
time at 85? I'm just built different. Are you saying you're transgender? No, I'm literally
03:02:32.740
saying I'm built different. Like I'm just made out of a different material. Are you saying
03:02:38.160
you're trans? No. What? I said a different material. Okay. So you're not trans then? No.
03:02:49.700
Okay. I don't know. And, uh, okay. You said you were built different. Um, you're clearly
03:02:58.600
trolling though. I mean, come on, 85. That's your, can be your peak. Okay. Maybe like 45.
03:03:02.980
Okay. Whatever. Um, what am I supposed to say? I don't know. Like, I don't know if I'll keep
03:03:10.240
working. I'll keep working out. I mean, I work out, I eat healthy. I assume I'll keep looking
03:03:15.500
better. I mean, looks fade, but I don't know. Okay. Uh, you're 28. Will you be better looking
03:03:24.000
in 10 years time at 38? I, I'm going to say yes. Cause I'm probably going to get a lot of
03:03:28.020
surgery and work out a lot more than I am right now. Okay. And will you be better looking,
03:03:33.060
uh, 48, 20 years time? Depends on the upkeep. If I'm up, if I'm, you know, following through
03:03:43.180
eating healthy, working out. Let's assume the upkeep is good. I guess absent plastic surgery.
03:03:49.040
Will you be better looking at 48 versus 28? I think there's definitely going to be a different,
03:03:54.240
like I would rather be 28 than 48, even with plastic surgery. So I guess a no, but I would
03:04:00.460
say yes for 10 years plus. So 38. Yes. 48. No. Okay. And then are you better looking now at 28
03:04:06.980
than you were at 18? Yes. Okay. Jim Bob, you're 44 better looking in 10 years time at. Yeah. I'm
03:04:12.720
going to be super. Mary, can you start pulling up the discord? Have you been doing it? Okay. It's
03:04:18.020
the discord, the research tab, start pulling up the age advance and the gender swaps. I'm going
03:04:23.080
to be ripped in 10 years. Okay. Actually, you typically don't ask this question to the men
03:04:27.640
because they don't give like our slurred answers, but, um, Jay Dyer, would you think you'll be
03:04:32.580
better looking in 10 years time, 20 years time? Ponytail. Um, we age pretty well. So I would
03:04:37.520
say I'll probably look about this. There you go. All right. Okay. Uh, do you have those pulled
03:04:42.320
up? So what we've, okay. Let's see about that. Uh, JJ, thank you for the soup chat. Appreciate
03:04:47.540
it. I'll do a couple of quick shouts. Uh, guys, Venmo cash app. Uh, if
03:04:53.060
you want a hundred percent of your contribution to go towards the podcast, that's whatever
03:04:56.220
podcast, Lindsay, thank you for the $20 on Venmo. Really appreciate it. Also guys, if
03:05:00.940
you're enjoying the stream, like the video, TTS is 200 read is a hundred. That's through
03:05:05.560
stream labs.com slash whatever. Also, if you're, uh, Oh, go to twitch.tv slash whatever, drop
03:05:11.060
us a follow and a prime sub. If you have one also join our discord discord.gg slash whatever,
03:05:18.500
and then shop dot whatever.com. If you want to get yourself some merch, also big labia
03:05:24.740
matter. Um, that's important, I guess. Uh, okay. I'm just waiting on the age advancements
03:05:30.600
where I actually just wait until, uh, the, yeah, I'll wait a little bit until she's, we
03:05:35.460
have everybody back at the table. Well, it's big labia like an actual thing. Like what do you
03:05:40.300
like, I have no, like, I don't know, like, what is it? I educate me while, you know,
03:05:45.260
no one's here. Uh, so I guess there's innies and howdies and there's middies. There's all
03:05:49.400
kinds of variation in between. And, uh, this is like an old school feminist talking point,
03:05:53.940
although I don't really hear it that much anymore with the, uh, increase in like pro pro
03:06:00.540
surgery feminism, just kind of interesting. But, uh, yeah, essentially there's this talking
03:06:05.380
point, uh, that depictions and like pornographic material, it would always have these like perfect,
03:06:11.100
perfectly manicured vaginas basically, which is just not how I think it's like 50% of women have
03:06:16.360
Audis, so to speak. And I don't think people should be shamed for their genitalia and, um,
03:06:22.400
whether you're a man or a woman, but specifically when it comes to women on this topic, like they're
03:06:26.100
shamed, you know, you'll hear terms like beef curtains, wizard sleeve, Arby's meat, meat used quite
03:06:32.400
a bit. So, uh, I'm against it. And, uh, yeah, that's pretty much it. I guess when you phrase
03:06:37.500
it like that, big labias matter. Big labias do matter. So it's, uh, yeah, uh, big, uh, you know
03:06:43.500
what the thing is though, all labias can't matter until big labias matter, excuse me. So there is
03:06:49.460
that. Um, okay. Uh, we're still waiting for her to come back. So I'll just get into notes. We have
03:06:53.860
some notes from you, Charlie. Uh, you said you were one time you were on a date with a guy who was an
03:06:58.480
influencer. He took you out on a date and he was live streaming your date.
03:07:02.920
Twice or wait, her date. Oh, so you went on two dates. So he, he asked me out on a date and I said,
03:07:08.440
yeah, sure. Um, this was like when me and my fiance, we weren't like together. Cause we,
03:07:13.640
we didn't make, we didn't want to make LDR work yet at this point. But long story short is he hits
03:07:19.440
me up and he's like, Hey, let's go on a date. So I was like, yeah, sure. So he sets up a day,
03:07:24.120
sets up the time, sets up when he's going to pick me up. It's all great. And he's so background,
03:07:28.340
he's like a super big influencer. Um, he picks me up, we go to the location and while he's driving,
03:07:35.900
he's like saying like doing Twitch stuff, like the stuff, like Twitch people do, like,
03:07:41.480
I don't know, Twitch, like give me like 20 bucks or something. And I'll say this to her or something
03:07:45.460
like that. And so it was just like, obviously not real or whatever. And he's, uh, we're together at
03:07:50.980
the table and we start talking and now it's becoming like an actual date, but it's still
03:07:56.000
being live stream, but it's a genuine date. It feels like. And then I just asked him, I said,
03:08:00.200
do you ever do things for fun? That's what I said to him. Like, do you ever genuinely do things not
03:08:06.900
for the views, not for the subs, not for the money. And, but do you just do things for fun to be present
03:08:11.480
in the moment and not feel like you have to put up a front, this like front for people. And he didn't
03:08:17.700
give me a really good answer. It was like, I don't remember the answer. It was like a wishy
03:08:20.860
washy answer. And so I got up, I paid for my drink and my meal and I left. How did you, uh,
03:08:27.040
garnish a date with the big influencer? How did that all unfold? To be honest, I didn't know he
03:08:32.540
was an influencer until he followed me and I followed him back. And I saw that he had actually
03:08:37.420
a really big following. Why did he follow you? Because we met on a, well, we, we started chatting on a
03:08:43.240
dating app. Oh, it was, it was, yeah, no, like we met on an app. It was just his first name. It
03:08:47.960
was just personal pictures of him. I didn't really, I started low key recognizing him from like the old,
03:08:54.060
like vine era. And then, um, who was it? I can't, I'm not going to say, I don't do that. I don't
03:09:02.040
kiss and tell. Um, so, but he, he, uh, you asked if he does anything for fun. He had no answer.
03:09:08.100
And then you walked out after paying for your drink. Um, I'm curious though, is there anything
03:09:14.300
wrong with not doing anything for fun? Like maybe you're just working so hard that one day you can,
03:09:20.380
one day you can support a family. No, not even like, honestly, necessarily like my real answer is
03:09:26.620
like, no, there's nothing wrong. Some people just like for me, for example, I'm an EMT, like I'm gonna
03:09:31.840
be real with you. We don't get paid shit. I do auditions when I have time and I try to, you know,
03:09:37.980
write my own scripts and produce them. But like at the end of the day, I ended up having to pull
03:09:41.580
five to six day work weeks just to survive, just have a roof over my head. So I sympathize with
03:09:46.920
people that they can't do anything fun because it's either too expensive or just they have to work
03:09:51.960
so much to make ends meet. I get that. But when you're somebody like him who I get it influencing
03:09:58.220
like his job, but can you maybe put the phone down for just an hour and just be present for once
03:10:07.880
Okay. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I was just thinking like, I don't have anything against fun or anything,
03:10:13.820
but maybe some men just operate from a paradigm of self-sacrifice and part of that self-sacrifice.
03:10:20.080
He was not a traditional man. Like, like, like to just, he was definitely very modern as, as like
03:10:26.200
very modern in the sense that you guys have described. Okay. Uh, here we're going to do the,
03:10:31.320
so here's what we're going to do. We have put every single person here on the panel through an AI
03:10:35.720
and we've, we've aged, advanced all of you. Some of you said you're going to be better looking in
03:10:41.560
10, 20, 30 years time, et cetera, et cetera. So we've put you through the, through AI and we're
03:10:46.460
going to see if it's true. Go ahead. Pull it up. Oh my goodness. Try to eat cookies. Yeah. That's
03:10:55.860
going to be the grandma I'm going to be. All right. Wow. Okay. Nice. Yeah. It's always the same old lady
03:11:02.580
though. Creeping in on the last image every time. Where did these photos come out? I think you're pretty cute.
03:11:07.280
You're pretty cute. Uh, okay. Uh, let's go next. There's no way that's just 10 years.
03:11:14.140
That is not just a 10 year regression. I could be. I mean, if you drink and smoke heavily, then maybe.
03:11:21.780
That's true. After my severe crack addiction in the next 10 years, that will be me. It could. It
03:11:25.500
might happen. All right. Next. Oh, that's hard to look at. I don't want to look at that. So how do you
03:11:33.280
feel about that? Disgusted. Disgusted. Okay. All right. You ready? All right. Oh, that's not bad.
03:11:41.300
I look cute. Hair is luscious. Yeah. Took some MILF. Oh Jesus. Okay. There we go. All right.
03:11:51.160
Next. I look fucking cool. I look real. Okay. All right. Uh, let's do. Oh,
03:12:03.820
what do you think? Yeah. She looks cute. Into the mic if you can, please. No surgery done. No surgery
03:12:13.240
done. Next. I was the same lady though. Every time. Jim Bob. Yeah. This is a curmudgeon. Get
03:12:20.240
off my couch. Yeah. All right. Next. I think was that your wife that just laughed at that? I think she
03:12:29.820
just chuckled a little bit. It's your future. Is that. Why do you extend the pink down your
03:12:34.820
forehead? That's with like cigarettes. Yeah. There you go. All right. Uh, next. Oh, okay.
03:12:40.640
All right. Felicity back there. Oof. Uh, next. What the fuck is it? Oh, I see. That's just
03:12:51.260
like a headshot. Make it smaller. Oh, wait, I know where. Okay. So this is actually, this
03:12:57.620
is like from 10 plus years ago. I was in Amsterdam doing a promo for, uh, bad grandpa. The jackass
03:13:05.880
presents bad grandpa with Johnny Knoxville. And they put like, they, they turned, turned
03:13:11.000
me into an old man. Oh, that's actually prosthetic and makeup. It wasn't, they didn't put like
03:13:16.360
those, the, you know, it was like a 30 minute makeup job. So it's not like the crazy, like
03:13:20.480
full on prosthetics, but yeah, they, they did that. So is there next or is that middle one
03:13:25.920
look kind of looks like an arrest photo? Like Kevin Spacey did something terrible. You know,
03:13:30.820
that's actually the age one though. That, that middle one's pretty, you know, I, yeah, that,
03:13:35.000
that's just crazy. That's young. That's a 10 year old photo though. 10 plus year old. Damn.
03:13:40.340
Shit. Back when you were youthful. That was actually not a tub of lard. Um, all right.
03:13:47.040
Next. Do, do we have the gender swaps? All right. Keep an eye on those. Brian, were
03:13:53.400
you popular in high school? Like when you were younger? Like what was your, um, archetype?
03:13:58.460
Yeah. My high school archetype? Yeah. What were you? I was a Sigma. You were an athlete.
03:14:07.020
Were you a nerd or like, were you an athlete? No, uh, Sigma male mindset. What was my archetype?
03:14:16.360
Uh, shit. I mean, uh, I wasn't like a jock. Yeah. I was like, I think I was like a normal.
03:14:22.600
You're just the normie. I was like a normal kid. Maybe like a little, just doing my own thing.
03:14:27.660
Okay. I didn't have like a giant fan group. Right. I guess I kind of was a Sigma actually,
03:14:32.840
but I was just doing my own thing. Uh, I was over high school though, but I'm junior year.
03:14:38.760
What about you, Jay? Were you a skater boy? He was a, no, I was a wittiest. I was popular.
03:14:43.740
He was a popular. Yeah. He was a legend in high school. I actually, when I was in high school,
03:14:49.280
I heard about him. Did you actually? No. That's how much of a legend Jay was. Where did you go to high
03:14:57.560
school? Tennessee. Okay. We heard about him. I heard about him in Alabama. You heard about him in Alabama?
03:15:01.980
He was a big deal. His reputation. Yeah. Through the biggest ragers. Yeah. Uh, anyways, we're,
03:15:07.720
we're still waiting on the gender swaps. Did those come through? Okay. You, you got all of them or
03:15:13.120
you still need to, okay, perfect. So guys, for this next segment, we've swapped your gender. All of y'all
03:15:19.800
are men. Well, you guys are women. You guys have changed to women. And the question is,
03:15:27.700
would you date the male version of you? Or do you find them attractive or whatever? Go ahead.
03:15:35.500
Am I still around? It's like one of the Bee Gees. I know. Whoa. Um, if you still have,
03:15:43.080
were they the falsetto guy? Yeah. Yeah. I started a joke.
03:15:49.440
Would you date the male version of you? He looks nice. He's a little too nice though. Yeah. You know
03:15:56.380
what I mean? Yeah. Like he's like, Hey girl, read my feminist essay. Do you want to study
03:16:02.320
gender studies together? What's that thing from Zoolander? The blue steel? Is that what
03:16:07.340
you're doing there? Oh, am I? You're kind of doing blue steel. Here, do it to the camera
03:16:11.660
right now. The blue steel. Yeah, there it is. All right. Uh, so would you know, is that a no
03:16:18.560
or yes? He seems like he'd be a good friend. Yeah. Friend sound. Friend sound. He's a brave
03:16:26.800
decent man. He's a pioneer. All right. Uh, next. Whoa. That looks. Ben Affleck? That looks
03:16:35.680
like my brother. Um, I generally don't date white men actually. So not super my preference.
03:16:43.840
You generally, before your husband, did you, my husband's not white, but you dated, I dated
03:16:49.520
one, like, uh, like you like Asian guys or yeah, just usually not white. Also that looks
03:16:55.800
like my brother. That's your, that would make me really uncomfortable just dating. So wouldn't
03:16:59.960
date him if you were single. I mean, he's cute. He's a good looking guy. The stuff looks great.
03:17:04.700
Um, I just see my wonderful raging gay brother. So it just feels a little weird. Next.
03:17:13.840
Wait, did we skip one? I think we skipped one. You might've, here, I don't know, but ew.
03:17:19.580
Ew. Did you say ew? What a dork you are. Oh, okay. Fix it. You want to do it? Can I
03:17:26.880
see it again? What if he, what if he, wait, question for you. I mean, no, but I want to
03:17:30.520
see it again. Question though. He is the roughest ever. Like he'll put me up, but he's just so
03:17:38.680
weak. He can't leave a bruise. Damn. But he's trying. Okay. Then he's not the roughest.
03:17:46.460
I don't know. He's the roughest. Uh, do you have it? Okay. Wow. What the, would you, would
03:17:55.100
you date the male version of you? No. So bad. You wouldn't, you wouldn't do it? No, I wouldn't
03:18:00.300
do it. If you had to pick between one of them. He looks like he's on something on this.
03:18:04.560
Looks like he kind of looks like he was like full on crackhead. He looks like a
03:18:08.460
Titan from attack on Titan. That's so bad. Looks like he just glides up to you. You're
03:18:13.460
like, how did you get here so quickly? On wheelies. Sneaks up on you a bit. All right.
03:18:20.660
Next. Oh, we did it. Leave it here for a sec. He looks like the guy from my Carly. Who's
03:18:27.500
the guy in my Carly? Why'd you look at me? I have no idea. I wonder. He looks like Freddy.
03:18:33.100
I wonder if what we have to do for these, cause it, it keeps the same jaw structure
03:18:37.520
typically is we have to masculinize the face a little bit on these. So it's kind
03:18:43.600
of a lighter jaw. So it's a little more fair because if you just take a woman's like facial
03:18:49.700
structure and you just, I don't know, I need, maybe it needs more masculinizing it. No,
03:18:54.800
whatever that word is. Okay. Next. Wow. You know, I just lost some of your head. Your whole skull's
03:19:04.780
gone. Would you date the male version of you? He's really smart though. Don't worry. I don't
03:19:10.620
know, but he looks like he'd be like my door dasher. Yeah. Wow. That was racist. No, that's
03:19:18.380
not racist. Honestly. Why? Does he look a little Mexican? Is that, are you trying to
03:19:24.520
say that? I am Mexican. I know. So he does look like a door dasher. But your implication
03:19:29.060
seems a little racist. I don't even know what to say to that. But why did you immediately
03:19:33.700
go to Mexican? Huh? Why did you? Yeah. Why did you? Why did you? Why did you go to
03:19:38.940
Mexican? Why did you go to Mexican? Am I the, am I the, am I the, are all Mexicans working
03:19:43.380
door dasher? Why would you assume it's a door dasher who's Mexican? No, literally. I just
03:19:46.500
said door dasher. You out of the Mexican. Yeah. I mean, honestly, yeah, I did just say door
03:19:51.200
dasher. So explain your psyche. Yeah. I would love to know. Well, it just seems kind of like
03:19:56.620
you see a brown person and you just, I am a brown person. I know. I know, but you, that's
03:20:02.820
crazy. Yeah. He's on the defensive. No, he's asking why you generalized a Mexican. I probably,
03:20:08.480
that was probably a little racist on my part. She said door dasher. She didn't say Mexican.
03:20:11.300
What? Do you think most door dashers are Mexicans or any? It's an accidental racism. No, just most
03:20:17.860
of them in LA have a beard and have like slicked back hair. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's
03:20:22.600
because they're Mexican. And if it did, I am Mexican. I'm half Mexican. So it's like,
03:20:26.880
okay. All right. So you guessed, you guessed right, but like you guessed right that I was
03:20:32.560
Mexican. So it does look like a door dasher. Uh, yeah. It looks like somebody I'd see like
03:20:37.180
door dashing, but he seems like a nice guy. He does seem like a really nice guy. I don't
03:20:42.460
know. I just don't know if I would. All right. Next. Wait, we missed. Honestly, he looks
03:20:51.440
really good. I don't trust that woman though. That's a succubus. That's like,
03:20:55.980
why is it? That's crazy. She looks really good. That is wild. Honestly. Yeah. I think
03:21:03.520
that was probably the best one. Janina. Very handsome woman there. Get ready for Janina.
03:21:08.820
Jemima. Okay. Maybe we're waiting. We're waiting. We need the, we definitely need the gender swap
03:21:15.580
for the time being though. Let's do the rest. Give us, oops. Oh, shit. Here we go. Wait.
03:21:21.280
F-L-F in it. I look like my dad a little bit. What the frick? That looks like the most believable
03:21:26.380
though. You look like, you kind of look like Jim from American Pie a little bit. I don't
03:21:31.380
know who that is. Just a teeny bit. I don't know. All right. Would you date him? No. No? He looks
03:21:37.540
Italian. Latino. What if he was like, oh my God, your singing career is so important.
03:21:46.460
I'd be like, thank you. That's so sweet of you. That's so sweet of you. What if he said
03:21:49.980
that shit? No, thank you. No? I said that was so sweet of you. What if he was an old school
03:21:57.060
traditional guy? And he, he looked as like that and he was like, really, he wanted to
03:22:04.080
marry you and have kids, but he was like, oh my God, I'm so happy for your singing career.
03:22:11.880
And he said it just like that too. What if he's like, your voice is the world. Your voice
03:22:16.360
is my world. Would you then marry him? What? So tough. Wait, can you, um, here.
03:22:27.060
Think of a male celebrity that you're like, that's my level. What do you mean? That's
03:22:32.460
my level. Yeah. You know, like Jake Gyllenhaal or a celebrity crush or a celebrity like Leonardo
03:22:38.840
DiCaprio. He's Italian. So can you say it again? The question like celebrity crush or something
03:22:44.660
I would want that you feel would be like, uh, the same caliber as me or same league celebrity
03:22:51.440
like looks wise. It doesn't have to. Uh, I I'm horrible with names. Vin Diesel. That's
03:23:01.720
who you're thinking of. Vin Diesel. Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby. I'm good. Bill Cosby. Wait, is this
03:23:08.980
hypothetical? She's already, she's already made it. She's already doing it. And then I think
03:23:13.320
it was a question for me, not for you too. She's famous. No, I, no, it's just right now,
03:23:18.180
right now. Well, you need a little more guidance in answering questions. Typically. Thank you.
03:23:24.200
Yeah. We're helping you out here. A lot of help. Um, again, I, off the top of my head. I don't
03:23:32.280
know. Sorry. Go ahead. I answered it. Oh, off the top of your head. Yeah. I don't, I'm horrible
03:23:39.580
with the names. Maybe I can think of some Brad Pitt when he was younger. I think he
03:23:47.480
still looks good now. No, he's still a good looking guy. Oh, she would if she got Brad
03:23:51.140
Pitt now. Count your blessings. Very Italian looking though. Um, I pull up a picture. Little
03:23:56.800
girly. Danny DeVito. Italian. Danny DeVito. Pull up a picture. I don't know who that is. You
03:24:01.100
don't have Danny DeVito? I'm Latina. P. Diddy. What the fuck? Uh, Lil Wayne. No. Cristiano
03:24:08.240
Ronaldo. Is he Italian? I think that's her type. It's not Portuguese, but that's, that's
03:24:14.080
it. But I say like at the league, he looks like so perfect, like, like the Squidward
03:24:18.300
perfect. Like that's not. Too much? Yeah. That's too much. Too pretty. You're more of
03:24:21.800
a messy girl? Yeah. I would say so. Yeah. Well, do you, but when I say messy, like more
03:24:27.520
not, not, not messy. Disheveled man. Not perfect. No. Messy. A little messy. Oh, messy. Um,
03:24:35.460
sure. Actually, yes. That's a great, I would say messy. He's like, he's like four 11. No
03:24:39.680
shot. I think he pretty much is. No shot. Is he teeny? He's a tiny man. He's a tiny
03:24:44.680
little guy. I, he's a shorter guy, I think, but he makes up for it with his left. Yeah.
03:24:50.540
The cook, the kick. His exceptional, uh, that thing. Okay. All right. Do we have the rest?
03:24:56.460
Yeah. All right. Let's pull them up. There's Jim Bob next. Oh, wow. You became
03:25:05.440
mild. Wait, you became mixed race. I became, I became a total crack. Like a, like a, like
03:25:12.080
a meth head. Would you guys date them? No, I would get away from her. She looks like a
03:25:18.280
meth head. Run. Next. Run. Oh, what the fuck? That's the worst one of you, Felicity, I've
03:25:28.020
ever seen. That's some like murder status. Yeah. That guy's, that guy's very, we lost
03:25:35.040
it. We don't know where the good one is. It's like, where were you? Next. Where were
03:25:38.640
you? Okay. Make it bigger. I look like Marilyn Manson on the far right. The left one's really
03:25:48.480
cute though. She's super cute. Honestly. I look bad. No, you look really good. You date
03:25:53.000
women. So I mean, would you smash? I would. Yeah. Okay. Nice. There you go. The left
03:25:57.760
one. I feel so good now. Oh, I was saying Brian's gender bent version. No, I know the
03:26:02.660
left version. The nice one. The van soccer mom or the, the one that's a little, maybe didn't
03:26:09.720
make that many good choices. I would agree. She's a van soccer mom who probably at one
03:26:14.280
point was goth. Very girl next door. I like that. I, I agree with your assessment. Okay.
03:26:23.620
So, uh, going back to you, Charlie, your show notes here, uh, you wrote body counts and how
03:26:30.080
men are praised for high ones and women are shamed for high ones. Um, I mean, so you think
03:26:35.880
it's like a double standard kind of, I do. I see that as a double. I personally don't think
03:26:40.540
I have a high body count if you want me to be completely honest with you, but, um, what
03:26:45.200
is that? Like, like, okay. But what counts, I guess is like, are we talking like sex, like
03:26:51.100
sex, or are we talking about like any sexual interaction I've ever had? Uh, P in the V
03:26:56.280
or V on V. Okay. Um, like 13 in my entire life, 13, 13 guys. Cause you, what'd you say?
03:27:06.300
You're bi. So are you breaking it down by gender? I think, I think six women, like maybe
03:27:12.940
seven guys. I think that, yeah. What is the threshold for two women having sex? Is it
03:27:19.000
scissoring? Is that the threshold or is it oral sex? I don't know what the threshold would
03:27:24.460
be. Sex close off. What is, what is sex between two women? Someone coming, but you could come
03:27:32.180
like through oral sex, right? Or like, I think I was thinking more like when I answered that
03:27:36.880
question, I was thinking more of the guys, I guess. Um, cause like, I don't know, sometimes
03:27:42.420
in the past I'd make out with a guy and like, that's it. And I'd leave it at that. I don't
03:27:47.540
know. But, but what, yeah. What does constitute? Okay. Long story short. I'm genuinely curious.
03:27:55.380
I think an orgasm. Yeah. And that can be oral. That can be fingers. That can be scissoring.
03:28:01.740
That could be anything. Wait, the question. If the, what if, is it, wait, hold on. Do both,
03:28:07.020
have both people then had sex if only like one person is fingering the other woman? So
03:28:16.360
like only she comes and only she's been fingered. Well, that's not normally the case. Usually
03:28:22.300
both of them come in this case. Right. But I'm just exploring it, I guess. So I, I, yeah,
03:28:27.060
sure. You could both be like mutual masturbation. Well, I guess my long story short is that I've
03:28:32.600
noticed that a lot of men that, you know, like in their male spaces, you know, when it comes
03:28:37.300
to like, quote unquote, like, you know, locker room talk, they'll like high five each other
03:28:41.260
and be like, yo, you know, you've took high body count. I've had sex with like 20 girls,
03:28:46.860
30 girls. It's like different, but then like women seem to be like shamed for their high
03:28:52.400
body counts. I think I was watching, um, something that made me think of this though, is that I was
03:28:57.080
watching an old episode of whatever. And there was this one guy, he said something along the
03:29:02.240
lines of, um, he's a born again Christian. His body count was about 25 to 30 born again Christian.
03:29:09.100
And then asked if he would be with a woman who's a born again Christian and her body count
03:29:13.640
was about the same. And he was basically no was long story short. No. Sure. And so that,
03:29:18.180
that makes me think that like, wow. So if he's born again and deserves, it is, is, I'm not religious,
03:29:23.660
but if he's born again by his metrics and he's getting a second chance that now he can live this
03:29:28.940
life, why couldn't she, I guess is what I'm saying is like, and genuinely, genuinely like both of them,
03:29:34.840
you know? And so that's kind of like, why is she permanently spoiled? And then he changes his ways
03:29:40.220
and he's like reborn again, so to speak. Sure. I'll, I mean, I can answer this a couple of
03:29:44.180
different ways. I would say, first off, uh, you have people's individual preferences. So,
03:29:50.440
but when it comes to, um, when it comes to like a woman who's previously promiscuous or whatever,
03:29:58.140
even a Christian man who he himself was previously promiscuous, uh, former promiscuous people can be
03:30:05.400
saved by Christ, uh, Christian men do not need to then disregard the accompanying baggage that might
03:30:12.960
come with somebody's past, even if they've been saved by Christ. I think these are two,
03:30:16.900
these are completely compatible. Granted, I'm not, I'm not really, I'm not taking that position in
03:30:23.760
terms, like I'm not Christian. No, I know. Um, but I'm just saying my understanding is like,
03:30:28.580
just because you're a Christian man, that does not mean you're like, you're compelled to date
03:30:33.400
somebody who's like a former prostitute. I can agree with that. There's another element though,
03:30:37.580
too, is that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men aren't. So because they're the gatekeepers of
03:30:43.460
sex, the value placed on, uh, when they open the gates is, is, is seen as more valuable than when
03:30:52.380
women, than men open the gates. For instance, it's really easy for women to just go out and have sex
03:30:56.500
with someone. Uh, it's harder for men to, to get that right. Um, so the women get to decide like,
03:31:02.620
oh, I'll sleep with you. I'll sleep with you. So, so in a sense, like, it's almost like that's your,
03:31:07.040
that's a woman's leverage and it points to, wow, if that's your leverage, I would argue that's a
03:31:13.220
really good reason to preserve it and to use that leverage appropriately. And I think the best way to
03:31:20.300
use it appropriately is to reserve your virtue as hard as it might be today. Um, in exchange for a
03:31:28.200
man that deserves it. And I think that's a good bent, that's a good, uh, it's basically like a
03:31:32.860
cost analysis in a sense. Whereas the man, if he's promiscuous, the woman is not judging that as
03:31:40.080
the virtue. They're, they're judging their ability to lead their, maybe even their aggression, their,
03:31:45.900
uh, their ability to provide and protect. And in a weird way, I don't, I don't condone promiscuity
03:31:51.520
with men, but in a, in an interesting way, their promiscuity might even be aligned with their male
03:31:58.220
aggression in pursuit. It might actually be seen as like an attraction in some weird way,
03:32:03.360
whereas it's not flipped the same way with women to say it's unfair. I actually don't think it's
03:32:09.200
unfair. I think it's completely consistent with the nature of men and the nature of women.
03:32:14.300
The thing, the way you're describing it though, where it's like, oh, men can be given this little
03:32:18.880
bit of leeway. That's kind of, you're explaining literally a double standard. Like it is, it's not
03:32:24.240
the same standard. It's a double standard would assume that it should be an equal standard, but
03:32:29.640
I'm saying it's a double standard that women are the gatekeepers of sex. So like that's not an equal
03:32:35.900
standard with men either. Right. Going back to what I was trying to say is that it's kind of like sort
03:32:40.620
of a double standard. Um, being in like the military and stuff I've, I've heard in like, obviously like
03:32:45.320
men, they say crazy things in the military. I mean, everyone has thick skin, but you've,
03:32:50.000
I've always heard the old adage when you see like guys talking in the military, they say like, oh,
03:32:54.480
you know, a key that can pick open many locks is like a really good key, but a lock that opens the
03:32:59.660
many keys is a really shitty lock. But I would like to flip that back and say, well, if a toothbrush
03:33:05.000
washes many mouths, isn't that a shitty fucking toothbrush? Yeah. I actually agree with you.
03:33:09.240
There's a bunch of analogies that you could point towards men. Like I've heard the pencil sharpener one,
03:33:13.020
for example, like, uh, like, oh, how does the pencil sharpener one go? Um, a, a really good pencil
03:33:22.100
sharpener can sharpen many pencils, but like a pencil that is fuck, how does it go? That goes
03:33:29.660
the same idea. I don't know. Just whatever the reverse. Like, so I don't think that analogy is
03:33:34.220
like the, the keen lock analogy. I, I mean, it, it's helpful in a way, but like women can, uh, people who
03:33:40.020
are debating against that position can just like forward analogies that are like, oh, okay. Men
03:33:45.320
who are promiscuous, like they're, well, I guess I'm talking more, I'm referencing more like the
03:33:49.860
average everyday Joe, like you, you seem to have more sound reasoning. Like you're able to actually
03:33:54.940
explain these things and I'm like actually listening and I'm able to actually take away things that
03:33:59.240
you're saying, but a lot of men, it just ends there. Like, that's it. Like, it's just a guy you can
03:34:04.140
sleep with a lot of girls. Like they don't know why. Yeah. They don't know why. It's just, just the
03:34:07.060
way it is that a lot, that a guy can sleep with a lot of women and he's like a champion, like bro,
03:34:11.500
you got, you got game. But a woman who sleeps with a bunch of men is just a slut. I'd like to answer
03:34:15.660
that in a couple of ways. So to the, to the, I think the point that you just made as to the optics
03:34:20.340
of it and how it's viewed. So, I mean, it's, it's actually just factually true that in order for a
03:34:25.220
man to be able to sleep with a bunch of women that actually takes some degree of skill. Uh, any,
03:34:30.180
any woman, and we can prove this, any woman, if she was so inclined could be a slut, could be a
03:34:35.660
massive slut, could fuck three new guys a day. Any woman has that ability. Of course, most women
03:34:41.620
absolutely don't want to do that at all. But any single woman, if she was so inclined without really
03:34:47.880
having to do anything, could just fuck three guys, just go on a dating app. I really can't make that
03:34:52.680
same claim towards men. Like even if a guy wanted desperately to be a slut and fuck three different
03:34:58.040
women a day. Unless they were like super high status. If he, if it was like a top tier, really
03:35:03.800
top tier guy, they can make, even then it's like a Q Heppner sort of like you're going to have to be
03:35:12.020
like really, really, really, really good looking or have some sort of status musician, uh, athlete
03:35:17.220
actor, for example, most, for example, an average woman though, if we compare like for like an average
03:35:22.960
woman could fuck 10 guys in a day, easy. If she wants, I mean, I don't know if it would be easy,
03:35:30.280
but she could do it right. An average guy cannot fuck 10 women in a day. I mean, he's lucky to get
03:35:35.920
like, that's kind of like a blanket statement though, because I do disagree because you think
03:35:41.140
generally, generally speaking, there's maybe like certain outliers there, but generally speaking,
03:35:46.120
you think like average guys have access to hookup culture the same way that average women.
03:35:50.220
Oh no, no, no, no. I do agree with you. I do agree with you there. I'm just saying that like,
03:35:54.600
if a man does prepare just a little bit, I've seen men have rosters where they can fuck like
03:35:59.960
three girls in one day. Like I, three, like three is a number I threw out. I'm just saying I'm not
03:36:04.460
disputing that there are men who have rosters and maybe they're not like 10 out of 10 supermodels.
03:36:09.160
But, um, generally speaking, I think if we look, if we just pull the average guy, like for example,
03:36:14.540
if you had to bet your life on like, okay, you're going to send out either an average woman or an
03:36:19.500
average man onto the street and your life depends on it. And they have to like, try to fuck
03:36:23.500
three different people that day. Who are you going to like pick to save your life?
03:36:27.720
No, you know, and I'll, I'll back pet on, I'll say that I do agree with you. You're right. It is
03:36:32.080
easier as a woman to get a, um, a hookup more than like if a guy was out to go out to do the same
03:36:37.520
thing. I've seen this a lot. Cause you know, I have a lot of friends in different places, military
03:36:41.900
people, EMT people, acting community. Like I just have a lot of friends. I'm specifically thinking
03:36:46.520
of a couple who decided to open up their marriage and the guy made a hinge or whatever. And he made
03:36:52.680
a bumble and she made a hinge and she made a bumble and they're both very average looking people.
03:36:57.600
And she was getting a lot of clicks. She was getting a lot of swipes. She was getting a lot
03:37:01.240
of interactions and he was getting none. And so I guess my point is, is that, and it was his idea to
03:37:06.860
open up the marriage. Wait, so wouldn't this be further proof of our position? No, I'm agreeing. I'm
03:37:11.580
saying yes. Like, yes, I do agree. I agree. Yes. Because I've seen this actually happen in real
03:37:16.820
life. So I'm saying, yes, I agree. And this is why. And like, she's actually like, and then he
03:37:22.560
wanted to close the marriage back and it's kind of like a Pandora's box where you're like, you open
03:37:26.540
it and it can't be closed again because now she's realizing that she actually has a lot of leverage
03:37:31.420
and he doesn't. Did she smash a bunch of dudes or? To be honest, no, she didn't. She did let them close
03:37:38.660
back the marriage and they were done. And like, that was it. Like they never. Are they still
03:37:41.520
together? They are actually. Okay. But when it comes to the double standard, I think the other
03:37:45.700
thing I just wanted to bring up is, is that even, so there's a component of like, okay, it's easier
03:37:53.260
for women to get laid. So that's why like there's some degree of skill involved when it comes to,
03:37:59.400
you know, men being able to procure sex. I think the other thing though is women's own preferences
03:38:05.460
when it comes to like, women are a little more lenient when it comes to promiscuity and men
03:38:09.760
insofar as if a man has a high body count, uh, but he's otherwise going to be a good partner.
03:38:14.400
Like men are going to overlook that a little more than I think, uh, or excuse me, women are going to
03:38:19.340
overlook that more than men are. Uh, men seem to weigh promiscuity or past promiscuity or body count
03:38:26.020
more than women. So for example, um, uh, what's, what's an example I could give?
03:38:34.080
Let's say, let's say you have a, uh, a 35 year old successful, uh, man who's slept with 30 women.
03:38:44.940
Well, then this gets into age. So I don't know if this is a perfect example, but like a 35 year old
03:38:49.300
woman is going to look at him and be like, okay, that's fine. You have, then you have a 35 year old
03:38:53.880
guy who's looking at a 35 year old woman who's great at whatever, whatever, but she has a body
03:38:57.800
count of 30. Uh, he's typically, well, then this gets into like other components here. So I don't
03:39:03.920
think this is a fair example, but, uh, most guys are going to pick like the younger, more attractive
03:39:09.720
woman who has a lower body count than the older, more successful woman has a higher body count.
03:39:14.740
While that's true, like you're absolutely right that I've seen this happen time and time again to
03:39:19.460
where I can say, this is anecdotally true. I will say that there's, um, a caveat as to why men pick
03:39:26.480
younger women. And I would say that men, a lot of men pick younger women because there are a lot more
03:39:30.580
in their eyes, pliable, able to be molded into the perfect woman that they want. And they play these
03:39:36.160
manipulation games that a lot of women, their own age would see right through. I've done it before.
03:39:41.800
Well, I'll say that like there've been times where like I was like 22 and I'd be dating a guy that's
03:39:46.660
like 35 and I've matured a lot in those last few years. And now I'm 25, you know, as much as someone
03:39:52.720
can mature in those three years, um, in the lines of work that I've done to where nowadays I see right
03:39:58.680
through it. But when I was 22, I did it. And then I think, imagine if I was 35 and I saw this 35 year
03:40:03.940
old man, you know, doing his thing, I would see right through it. So I guess that's just what I'm
03:40:08.420
there's also just like, just the physicality, like fertility youth, obviously, um, that would play
03:40:14.880
into why men gravitate toward youthful. Wait, I mean, I have a question though, just to address
03:40:20.700
your specific point of you were saying, okay, men go for younger women because they're more pliable.
03:40:24.680
Uh, so essentially you're saying they're more agreeable. Uh, not necessarily. Yeah. Yes. And like,
03:40:32.440
generally speaking, men prefer more agreeable women. I think anybody would choose a more agreeable
03:40:40.180
partner. Like if the, like, I'm not going to pick a guy who's a stick in the mud. I'm not going to
03:40:45.000
pick, I mean, I'm bisexual, so I'm not going to pick a girl or a guy who's a stick in the mud.
03:40:48.860
Are you just trying to argue though? Like, Oh, men are manipulative and they're trying to take
03:40:52.780
advantage. No, not at all. I've dated like really good men who are genuinely really high quality men.
03:40:57.860
And for some reason or another, it didn't work out. Not at all. I'm not like a man hater or like
03:41:02.520
a misandrist at all. What do you think that in some cases it's actually the best thing for a man
03:41:08.400
to form a malleable per a woman into a better woman? I think a man shouldn't only specifically
03:41:18.860
go for younger women. If his reason is to form her and shape her, he should probably like see a
03:41:25.620
woman maybe like, I mean, people have their preferences. Honestly, people have their
03:41:29.780
preferences, but I'm saying that I think if you're only pursuing younger women because they're more
03:41:34.880
malleable, they're pliable, they're, they can be molded like clay into the perfect woman for you.
03:41:42.320
But would you say that that's like the primary reason men date younger women?
03:41:45.940
Yeah. I mean, no, no, no, no, no. There's sometimes there's just that connection. Like,
03:41:50.480
I mean, there've been times where I dated older men and there's connections right there. Like
03:41:54.260
I can tell it's not because I'm a younger woman that he wants to like date me.
03:41:58.640
They're just hot. They're just hot. That's it. I mean, he's not, it's not some like manipulation.
03:42:05.040
And then there could be a counter argument here. Like, so I think for example, um, if I wanted to
03:42:10.600
get something out of a woman, uh, I could probably pretty easily manipulate a woman who's like 35 and
03:42:16.220
doesn't have kids. And she's like, really, really, really like, she's like, okay, here's my last go to
03:42:20.560
get a relationship. I could just say, well, I could really easily manipulate this like woman who's
03:42:25.000
like really, really, really desperate for a relationship. Whereas like an 18 year old woman
03:42:28.880
or 19, 20, 21 year old woman, who's like exceptionally attractive. And she has like
03:42:33.160
a plethora of options that she probably won't have when she's 35. Uh, cause I think optionality
03:42:38.840
tends to give you like, you're, you're much more, uh, what's the correct word? When you have a bunch
03:42:44.780
of options, you're much more, I think you're more discerning when it comes to which option you're
03:42:48.940
going to pick. So, and also I think, um, as a guy for you to get with a younger woman, you gotta,
03:42:54.100
you gotta bring quite a bit more to the table, I think. But, uh, in any case, I think a woman
03:43:01.220
who's like 35 and doesn't have kids and it's like, fuck, I need to have kids. She's a mark
03:43:06.280
for manipulation. I will say, I agree with you. Absolutely. 1000% on that. Because again,
03:43:10.860
I have real life examples in my life. Um, I used to be roommates with a woman. She's amazing
03:43:15.520
by the way, but she's super liberal, LGBTQ pro activist. Like she's a really, and she's a really
03:43:22.840
kind human being. Um, and she's currently dating a guy who, um, he kind of sprung it up
03:43:32.080
on her, but like he presented himself as like a politically moderate human. And then maybe
03:43:36.380
three months in, he's like, I'm a Trump supporter. And honestly, the guy's hot. He's, he's a hot
03:43:41.840
guy. Um, but it's kind of like, she's kind of like, well, I'm 37 and I feel like I have to
03:43:48.740
settle. Like, so I'm saying that I agree with you. I've seen it happen. So where it's like
03:43:53.840
her morals is like, I'm a super liberal woman, but because I'm aging, I'm going to probably settle
03:44:00.420
with someone whose ideas and whose values don't necessarily coincide with mine, which if you ask
03:44:04.980
me, that's a recipe for disaster, but I'm not going to judge her. Yeah. And just final thing on the
03:44:08.340
point I was just making now about like how younger women have far more optionality. I also think just
03:44:13.260
because of like life stage, at least if it's a more like modern, like woman who's not, you know,
03:44:19.240
there's like traditional women who are like 20 or like really pressed to get married and start a
03:44:23.140
family young. Although I'd say the majority of young women today aren't operating in that paradigm
03:44:29.020
and that dynamic. So like a young woman who's not really pressed to like start a family or have kids
03:44:34.900
and she's got a bunch of optionality. She's got a bunch of men, her own age who want to sleep with
03:44:39.380
her. She's got a bunch of men who are older, who were like want to take her on trips and do
03:44:43.240
all this stuff. I actually think she's far harder to lock down than like the 35 year old woman whose
03:44:49.540
optionality is dwindling and she's like pressed to have a family and kids. So when it comes to
03:44:54.720
manipulation, I just make the argument that she's actually easier to manipulate because like if I'm
03:45:00.320
starting, if I'm doing some bullshit with a 20 year old, who's got like every dude wants to fuck her
03:45:04.880
and she's really good looking and she's not like super pressed to be in like some super serious
03:45:08.880
long-term relationship. Yeah. She can just dump me and move on with it and not really give a fuck.
03:45:14.680
I want to just add something interesting there is that the, your roommate situation is that
03:45:19.020
there is something she saw as a future and she had to make a choice, kind of a binary
03:45:26.140
one way or the other. Now I guess the question is if a woman is looking to settle down and
03:45:35.160
ultimately they're looking for stability. Um, how many times do you think they would choose the
03:45:41.220
conservative traditional man over the liberal man? It, for me, it depends. Um, I've met a lot
03:45:49.100
of conservative men who are politically conservative, but they could not any be any farther from being
03:45:54.780
traditional. You know what I mean? I've seen, I've seen that before. Um, so if you're talking like
03:46:00.040
the textbook, like traditional hold open the door, like does all that. Well, let me, let
03:46:05.980
me ask you a question. What does the cookie cutter liberal man look like to you? So I can
03:46:11.460
choose between the two. Uh, it's not. Yeah. You mean as far as like their, I know what a
03:46:15.960
cookie cutter conservative man looks like to me. Well, I would say like more men today are
03:46:20.840
a little more androgynous, a little like weak, like you were explaining, like you're dating,
03:46:26.660
like, you're like, what are you? Like, what is this? Like in their princess. Yeah. And they're
03:46:30.360
also like, sort of like faux LARPing feminists where they're just like, you know, everything's
03:46:35.200
Oh, you, whatever you want. And there's no real leadership there because they're so afraid
03:46:39.820
of like violating the feminist doctrine or whatever. I think that kind of liberal mindset
03:46:46.780
is really open. And let's, let's call it broad broadness versus narrowness. That's the
03:46:52.100
best way I can put it. If you find a man is liberal, he's open, he's broad, he's
03:46:56.480
open to things. It could go anyway. Uh, a tradition, a traditional man, even the fake LARPing conservative
03:47:02.460
you're talking about, there's many of them. They're still going to advocate for something
03:47:06.300
a little more narrow. And, uh, I think the thing we're pointing at is that when it comes
03:47:10.680
down to it, when the woman wakes up and she realizes there's a future and she has to choose,
03:47:15.800
she's going to choose the future that's downstream from a tradition rather than downstream from what?
03:47:22.160
A hundred year old enlightenment shit show, right? Like liberalism. It's like, it's not paying
03:47:28.400
off for the women like at all. Like the whole entire structure is like collapsing and they're
03:47:33.560
realizing a little too late. Many of them that, um, Oh shit, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta latch onto
03:47:41.060
something now. And, and, uh, unfortunately a lot of them, it is too late because the man that they're
03:47:47.100
actually looking for is already married. Why? Cause the woman they're looking for was younger and
03:47:51.840
willing and understood that they have to be, they're going to be mothers in this situation.
03:47:57.520
So they have to, like Jay said, you have to start being a traditionalist. You have to start
03:48:02.120
examining these things earlier than men have to. Is that a double standard? No, it's just the
03:48:07.760
difference between men. Men have a longer time to find the traditional woman. Women have less time
03:48:13.200
to find the traditional man. But that's all like made up. Like those are all made up rules. No,
03:48:18.680
it's not. You can find somebody. I've seen people who have not, I've seen personally, but you've hear
03:48:24.060
of people who have these marriages and their spouse dies, unfortunately. And then later on in life,
03:48:30.660
like at 67, they find someone else and they find love. Like they find love with that other person.
03:48:35.700
That's not what's in question. Like one instance where like spouses die and they have to find it,
03:48:41.140
you know, you're going to find another partner for the rest of your life. We're talking about
03:48:44.300
these key moments for women specifically in their years of fertility, high fertility, uh, between 20,
03:48:52.160
35, maybe 40. And they have, they really do that ticking. That clock is real. That's a real thing.
03:48:59.460
And the person that wants to act on that clock, the man, he's going to be more lean toward a
03:49:06.320
traditional Christian view. And he's going to be looking for women who are more committed early
03:49:11.060
on to the future they're living into, not, uh, as some sort of last minute, um, desperate cling to a
03:49:20.420
floaty device. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, like when we were asking her, it's a Jay asked her,
03:49:25.580
Oh, okay. So you're going to finally find the traditional man. And then, then you're going
03:49:29.400
to be a traditionalist like at like 45 when like, you know, let's say nothing works out.
03:49:34.540
I'm not saying it will, but it's like, if it didn't work out your whole career and you started
03:49:39.360
to realize that like 40 that you're like, Oh wait, maybe I should, maybe I should pursue being a
03:49:44.280
mother. You'll start to think, Oh, well maybe that wouldn't happen. Well, I'm just saying that
03:49:49.460
happens all the time. What do you mean? What would not happen? I don't think at 40,
03:49:54.160
I would start to have a revelation of like, wait, I should, I should have been a mom. No,
03:49:59.560
you don't think that happens. No, I have. Wait, are you saying for me? Not for me. Are you saying,
03:50:04.120
you, you know, with certainty you will have family and children. If I'm at my prime right now for
03:50:10.800
fertility, well, you're not, but okay. Well, at least then 10 years. Yes. Thank you. Why would I at 40
03:50:19.200
want to suddenly change my life and have a kid? I think that's silly. It's Oh, I thought you're
03:50:25.040
coming at it from the angle of, I will definitely have kids by then. So it's not even a concern.
03:50:30.440
No, I thought that's what you meant. No, no, no, no. I was just saying, no, I wouldn't have kids.
03:50:34.640
I need to let the chat come through. Clover 98 donated $200. Shut up gingerly in seat five.
03:50:43.100
What is gingerly? The tweaker in seat three and the rest of the panel want to chat as well.
03:50:47.260
Yo, Clover, thank you for the TTS. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. The tweaker in seat three,
03:50:51.600
do you want to respond to the tweaker allegations? What is gingerly? Was he maybe? Have you ever tweaked?
03:50:56.580
No, I'm hoping. No tweaking? No tweaking. Okay. All right. Zero tweaking. I'm hoping he's saying
03:51:01.140
it because of the gender swap thing. That's what I'm, my fingers are crossed. That's what it's
03:51:06.920
about. We have just a baker. We have Jake burnt Jay. We need you to start more shit. Speak up. We
03:51:11.660
need the fire you bring to make this interesting. Also stay on the come up from Ruslan to whatever
03:51:16.780
to Joe Rogan. Next ICXC continue spreading the Christ W. Thank you, Jake. Appreciate your message
03:51:24.020
there to, uh, to Jay. Oh, by the way, guys, I've lowered the TTS. We're doing a 69, $69 TTS.
03:51:30.840
If you guys want to get a message in now that it's lowered a little bit, I'm going to continue
03:51:35.380
on with the show notes here. Uh, let's see, Charlie, you also, you also wrote, um, yeah,
03:51:42.620
we already talked about the double standard thing. You want to talk about men's mental health
03:51:46.520
and the unaliving rate being a result of the rules men have put in place.
03:51:52.640
Yeah. Um, obviously with like my military service, I've seen people and you also hear things obviously
03:51:59.100
because we have the internet is that I've seen people in my life that I knew personally take
03:52:03.600
their own lives. And there were a lot of moments where not just me, but other, you know, other
03:52:09.400
soldiers would be like, Hey, is everything okay? And he'd kind of just be clammed up and be like,
03:52:14.180
yeah, everything's fine, but you could tell things weren't okay. And honestly, when I got
03:52:17.860
the email, like the mass email for our battalion that, Hey, he passed away before I, I knew
03:52:24.440
because the subject line was like, like unaliving basically. I honestly thought of him immediately.
03:52:30.660
Okay. And it goes to my, I get it. Somebody on the live. Yeah. And so can we get to the actual
03:52:35.400
content of the conversation here? You said it's the result of rules men have. So let's discuss
03:52:41.760
that. So I, so men's fault, suicide. Oh shit. Not necessarily like men's fault. Unaliving.
03:52:48.560
Not necessarily like any, any men that are alive right now. Cause these rules were made
03:52:53.320
before any men that are alive on this earth are, are, um, alive obviously. But I was saying
03:52:58.400
that you said being a result of the rules men have put in place. A lot of traditional men
03:53:05.180
think like, be a man, like, you know, suffer in silence. Like, you know, don't like Stonewall,
03:53:10.660
like don't communicate your feelings. Like, you know, don't cry, things like that. And
03:53:15.500
well, I have a question for you though. So if the unalive, the, the incidence rate of unaliving
03:53:20.100
has gone up, do you think, uh, masculinity has also like gone up too, or have we seen men become
03:53:27.860
more feminine in the past, like 50, 60 years? We've seen a lot more men that are okay with
03:53:33.000
being feminine. Right. But so like, but that's not correlation. Femininity rates of femininity
03:53:38.000
in men increasing, but, uh, unaliving rate. Okay. Can you show me what you're pointing?
03:53:45.520
You're saying like, Oh, it's the, it's this, which by the way, uh, the traditional or toxic
03:53:50.940
masculinity that you're referring to has been on the decline. So that which you're pointing
03:53:55.900
to is the cause of the increase in men, men's unaliving rate. It seems like that cause has
03:54:02.740
been on the decrease. No, I definitely see the need for masculinity. Like I'm not saying
03:54:07.240
like, Oh, masculinity is toxic in and of itself. I'm saying there are certain aspects of masculinity
03:54:12.520
in which there is toxicity, like stonewalling, not communicating your feelings, not seeking
03:54:18.820
therapy. These are all masculine things. I work in, I've worked only in masculine roles and
03:54:23.480
I see this time and time again where, and it's a, it's an expectation that men are given
03:54:28.620
from a very young age. And then sometimes like in June, you see like men's mental health
03:54:33.160
month or something like that. And it's like, it's, that seems to be like the only month
03:54:36.760
where men seem to be. Can I ask you a question? If someone unalives themselves and they're a
03:54:41.020
man, do you agree that they're responding or reacting to an emotion? Like what, what do
03:54:49.100
you mean? There's a lot. Are they, are they reacting to like an emotion? I mean, I'm sure
03:54:55.180
that before somebody unalives themselves, there's a lot of, a series of emotions that they go
03:54:59.360
through. Emotions like, I think the world would be better off without me. Nobody would miss
03:55:04.020
me. Like things like that. Like I'm sure there's a series of thoughts and emotions.
03:55:07.080
Speak to, speak to, you said being a result of the rules men have put in place. Yes.
03:55:13.720
Saying the rules are that you're not allowed to talk about your feelings or cry. And she's
03:55:19.600
drawing out some sort of narrative that men being pent up and not crying with their therapists
03:55:26.640
on the couch results in some sort of like, what, like a rubber band effect where it's like
03:55:31.860
builds up and then. Yeah. Like where it builds up and, and, and it, and it continues until
03:55:36.060
to the point where they reach a breaking point. I mean. But how is it the fact that the,
03:55:40.860
like, like Brian said, if masculinity at its peak was before all of this stuff and there
03:55:46.600
was less self deletions, why is there more now with the increase of being emotional and
03:55:51.600
more feminine? Because back then the statistics weren't as accurate as they are right now today
03:55:56.360
in these days, in these times. So you're saying the ability just to track it is the. It's
03:56:01.420
getting better and more accurate. Yes. Cause even, even from the point of time where we
03:56:05.200
started tracking it, it's trending upwards. Currently. Yes. Because I'm just curious. I
03:56:11.460
actually don't know. Is it per capita that it's trending up or is it just like total number?
03:56:14.840
Cause there's also like more people. I'm pretty sure. I think it's the per capita. I actually
03:56:18.700
don't think it's about emotion at all. I think the, I think the strongest link and I can't prove
03:56:24.100
it. I'm just, I'm just speculating here is that men are, uh, because of modernity,
03:56:30.660
because of egalitarianism, uh, men are not expected to, uh, fulfill the duties of men and to be drawn
03:56:41.160
into work, to be drawn into labor, to be drawn into all of these masculine activities even starts
03:56:47.740
early on with, with children, boys, the, the public school system is literally crafted to shut down
03:56:56.340
masculine expression. And so like what Brian's pointing to is pretty true. It's like men are
03:57:02.820
being feminized, if anything. And if you're going to try to draw a correlation between men and self
03:57:08.440
deletion, the trend would show a stronger correlate with demasculating, emasculating men rather than
03:57:15.700
some sort of toxic masculinity. But then another study would be, would need to be conducted saying
03:57:21.500
that because men are being feminized, suicide rates are going up. You can't just say that one
03:57:26.660
is because of the other. No, I would. Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't draw that strict, but I think
03:57:31.760
more, it's more likely men are depressed because they're not, um, being used fully in society,
03:57:39.020
that they're not being drawn into their duties and into positions where they're used. Like men respond
03:57:45.040
really well to you dude, go do this, just go, you know, it's like a, it's like we're, we're just like
03:57:50.860
these kind of roaming beasts who just need to be put to work. And I think, um, I would, I would
03:57:56.580
include a variable of technology, which is kind of blameless. Uh, but, uh, removing men from positions
03:58:03.120
where they're constantly active and drawn into some, some type of role, a needed role. I mean,
03:58:10.440
think about you're facing a society as a, as a 25 year old and you're looking for your wife and
03:58:14.940
you're living in a society that literally says women don't need men. Literally the narrative is
03:58:21.120
women don't need men. Could I, if a man is, is ontology is to be needed and wanted. Can you
03:58:28.320
imagine living in a society where the overall loudspeaker that you hear from, from childhood
03:58:33.620
to now is you're not needed? Uh, can I offer like a, I think like a joining, uh, hypothesis
03:58:40.760
because I really echo a lot of what Jim is saying, but I also understand a fair bit what
03:58:43.880
you're saying. There's really, really interesting studies on emotional expression in kids. So,
03:58:48.300
uh, there's two ways that kids and people tend to express emotions. One is externalizing and one
03:58:53.100
is internalizing. And I'm sure you're not surprised to find out boys tend to externalize more.
03:58:57.440
Girls tend to internalize more. The issue is that the way that we parent an externalizing child.
03:59:02.240
So if your child gets overwhelmed and stressed, so they start throwing blocks and like kicking
03:59:07.180
shit, basically, they're way more likely to be punished and sent to their room. Whereas an
03:59:11.800
internalizing child, it's very easy to comfort or crying. You pick them up. You're like, it's okay,
03:59:15.720
Sophie, go back to your play. And so in many ways, what we do as a society in, in part because of
03:59:21.260
our expectations of what boys are, but also because we very much fear and resent male anger is that we
03:59:27.500
take the boy in the moment where he needs co-regulation and he needs parenting and he needs support.
03:59:31.980
And we tell him, go to your room. Nobody wants to fucking seal it, deal with yourself. And so we
03:59:36.520
have a whole bunch of boys that I would agree are increasingly being reduced of purposelessness.
03:59:41.060
They've been told that their proclivities, like wanting to do like play violence as bad and having
03:59:47.600
externalizing emotions as bad, but we never actually teach them how to externalize in like a healthy
03:59:52.080
way, which is why most men, if they find things that help their mental health, when they've been
03:59:55.940
having severe issues, it's usually through like fitness and boxing, which is externalizing ways of
04:00:00.600
managing your emotions. And so I think there's kind of a duality where I think when we talk from like a
04:00:04.840
feminist lens, we're like, men just need to express their feelings more. And I'm like, well, even when
04:00:08.360
they do a lots of women don't like it and B we don't like it because they'll externalize a lot of
04:00:13.300
the time. They'll be sent to their room. They'll be told that they're bad and we don't give them an
04:00:17.060
off ramp. Um, and then on top of that really neutral things about masculinity, like violence and
04:00:23.760
roughhousing and all these sorts of things are also increasingly criminalized. And by criminalized,
04:00:29.680
I mean this in like a, uh, pejorative way, not in like a legal way, obviously. And so I think what
04:00:35.080
we're doing is we're setting up this catch 22 where there isn't really a direction that men can be
04:00:39.000
and the way that they often naturally want to express is bad and harmful. And then especially on
04:00:43.720
the left, we just basically say, you've had the mic for too long. So shut the fuck up. We're not
04:00:48.280
interested in you. I mean, Obama, Michelle Obama literally told men to sit up and shut down and shut up.
04:00:53.440
And it's just like, none of this is ever going to be ironic for a man to say that Michelle Obama.
04:00:59.260
Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. I said, I get it. Uh, she does a very strong arm. So my alternative hypothesis
04:01:04.700
would be, I don't know if it's fair to say that it's, it's expectations that men have put on men.
04:01:09.100
I think it's expectations that came out of necessity. I think there's a lot of reasons why
04:01:13.240
patriarchy has emerged over and over. We're on men that all of us societally reinforce moms, dads,
04:01:20.120
et cetera, et cetera. I mean, absolutely. Um, I guess what I'm trying to get at is that
04:01:28.220
I've personally seen time and time again, where a guy will vent about his frustrations about what's
04:01:34.320
going on in his life. And his friend just basically tells him, man up, here's a beer basically. And
04:01:40.200
that's not enough. Sometimes that's not enough. It really is enough for me tonight.
04:01:44.400
You know what I'm trying to say though, is that you're not ever, there's no one size fits all,
04:01:49.060
but I'm saying that I do agree that men need to be heard. Men need to be listened to. I do agree
04:01:53.960
with that. I'm not saying that I'm saying that there's just for too long, men have been told
04:01:58.800
that they just need to take it. I think that's good. I think they should take it. I think you
04:02:03.320
should say, man up, stop being a little bitch. I mean, I do that as a father why they kill each
04:02:09.260
other or kill, kill themselves or unalive themselves. No, they don't, they don't mostly
04:02:13.740
do that though. I'm just saying that you can't say like, don't talk to anybody, keep it internalize
04:02:20.160
it, keep it within yourself. How could you, how could you make the link though, of teaching
04:02:24.020
men to essentially, um, overcome, uh, their emotions, overcome their, uh, perceived tribulations
04:02:34.040
by being stronger and stronger. And then you're trying to make a link to, if you teach men to
04:02:39.560
overcome things that results in them deleting themselves, I don't understand how you're making
04:02:44.480
this jump. Well, let's, let's just say men and women, women are a lot more social. Women talk to
04:02:51.120
each other a lot more men, a lot more are more independent. They don't talk to each other yet.
04:02:56.680
You don't see women killing themselves, unaliving themselves, unaliving themselves. They're not as good
04:03:01.200
at it. Unaliving themselves left and right. Men are better at it. What? It's like a force. They
04:03:06.260
succeed. They're, they can follow through that men, women fail at it. They attempt it, but they fail
04:03:11.220
more than men. Why is that in the attempts, in the comparative analysis of attempts? Why is the men,
04:03:16.840
why is the man so successful at it? Like the women try, but they also does therapy work? Like in
04:03:22.480
general therapy, yes. Like in general does therapy, does therapy work? I mean, robustly, but I will give you
04:03:29.220
a caveat. Therapy robustly works by and large. There's a couple of caveats. Therapy is extremely
04:03:35.660
ineffective with incels. Extremely. Incels actually seek therapy more than the general population,
04:03:41.780
but the efficacy rate for them is about 10%. I'm not even talking about incels. I'm just
04:03:46.000
speaking in general. I'm telling you at data level, unquestionably it works. There's certain things like
04:03:50.280
grief counseling or like if you're, if you're specifically trying to address maybe something
04:03:55.180
specific, uh, there, I, I guess I could see the application of therapy, but a man just going to
04:04:00.920
see another man or a woman and just here's my problems. Well, that's not therapy. It doesn't
04:04:07.360
necessarily mean you have a problem. Hold on. Just to be clear. Talk therapy is like the most popular
04:04:12.460
form of therapy that there is. But you're describing a talk therapy that isn't even like
04:04:15.920
most men, for example, tend to prefer CBT versus like, yeah, CBT has some merit to it,
04:04:21.420
but like just talk therapy. Here's talk therapy is CBT. CBT is the most common form of therapy.
04:04:27.160
Unquestionably. There's a new fourth wave of therapy that is getting a little bit more popular.
04:04:30.500
That's a little bit more emotion focused exclusively. Women tend to like that more,
04:04:34.380
but CBT is very practical. Who here is currently in therapy?
04:04:39.100
Amazing. Okay. Who here has ever professionally offered therapy? It depends on the therapy.
04:04:43.540
And how many therapists have you had? Like three. How many therapists have you had? Two.
04:04:48.080
Um, if, if it's not too much to share, what issues are you guys specifically working through in
04:04:55.280
therapy? So the thing about therapy is a lot of people think there's a stigma like, oh,
04:05:00.980
he or she is in therapy. And there's like that stigma that comes with it. But therapy doesn't,
04:05:06.440
just because you do therapy doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with somebody like
04:05:10.380
$200 an hour. It's not $200. Yeah, but he asked you. Can you answer my question though? What
04:05:14.880
specifically are you working on in therapy? Sometimes I talk about things in my life
04:05:19.620
that made me upset. For example, why can't you talk to a pillow here? And what's your,
04:05:24.600
are you specific? Cause I know people are, are you specifically working through something in
04:05:29.100
particular? Yeah. Yeah. Childhood trauma. Okay. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Um,
04:05:34.400
I guess the question is though, sometimes you go this therapy stuff. Does, has it helped you
04:05:39.620
talking about it? Honestly, it's, it has to be the right therapist. I currently have one that I
04:05:44.300
stopped seeing because it, I agree with you. It's just like talking to a wall and she was like,
04:05:48.280
yeah, yeah. And, and first off, I'm very sorry to hear that you went through traumatic things when
04:05:53.740
you were a child. Um, I think a lot of people go through that. Um, do you, have you found that,
04:05:59.620
and this is my experience sometimes with talking about anything that is troubling. Uh, I find that
04:06:05.780
talking about it just makes me more upset. It doesn't help at all. It just, it's sort of, uh,
04:06:13.600
what's the word for it? It, it just sort of recycles the feelings. And sometimes I just,
04:06:19.720
if the, if it's something like temporary that I'm upset about talking about it and focusing on it
04:06:24.860
just makes me more upset about said thing. And if I'm given a day, a couple of days to just
04:06:30.660
not talk about it, I tend to just move on past the thing that was troubling and I'm good. Now I can
04:06:38.000
understand perhaps with something that's like a bit more deep seated and like, you know, you're not
04:06:42.880
going to get over, you know, I'm talking about more of a minor thing, but even things that in the
04:06:46.720
moment are troubling to me, if I just wait a week, yeah, I'm over it. So when, sorry, when I'm in
04:06:53.200
therapy, um, we practice something where they, with trauma, they want you to be, um, to feel what
04:07:00.120
you felt when you had that trauma to overcome the idea of like, I don't want to think about it,
04:07:05.780
you know, hush, like it's under the rug because you're not really working through it. If you're
04:07:09.940
just not talking about it and you're just putting it under the rug or hiding it, what talking through
04:07:15.300
it and having that emotional reaction is actually helping you as a person. It helped me. It has to
04:07:21.960
be the right therapist. Like again, if the therapist is just nodding her head or his, her head,
04:07:26.440
just saying yes, yes, yes. And not actually asking questions, engaging, um, trying to understand
04:07:31.440
my perspective or even interjecting and saying, Hey, like what you just said is not correct. Like
04:07:36.660
that's, um, cognitive behavioral therapy. Um, then there's no, it's not. Can I ask you a more
04:07:43.480
of a, more of like an empirical question? How do you measure whether or not you've, uh, sort
04:07:52.340
of worked your way through something? Let's say like, here's a problem in between these two things
04:07:58.520
is therapy. And here's you, you've made your way through. How do you, what's the metric for you've
04:08:04.480
made your way through the problem? There's never a way. There's never, uh, I made a way through my
04:08:08.940
problem. I will always live with that. It's unfortunate, but it's the way I am able to react
04:08:13.260
to it, handle it and talk about it. Do you want to know the empirical metrics that we use in the
04:08:18.460
science to evaluate? So there's a couple of metrics that are going to be used. One of the
04:08:21.960
most important ones is days off work. So one of the most important metrics for the efficacy of
04:08:25.620
therapy is to see how often that person has to take off work for mental health related issues.
04:08:29.700
So this is one of the most robust evidences for support for therapy is that people who have gone
04:08:34.240
through therapy miss work less often. Another really good measure of therapy efficacy would be
04:08:38.700
things like relationship flourishing. So if they prior to therapy struggled in relationships,
04:08:43.320
can't maintain them very well. And post therapy have relationship flourishing. That's oftentimes
04:08:48.140
used. And you see this robustly. Like when I'm saying robustly, I mean millions, maybe billions
04:08:53.560
of data points, right? So this is an extremely established phenomenon that by and large therapy
04:08:58.640
works. There are bad therapists and there is a pathologizing of normal living that I would totally
04:09:04.800
grant where people like, I'm really sad. I need to go to therapy. I'm like, you could probably just
04:09:08.580
talk to a friend. Like you probably don't need to, but there are things like trauma, for example,
04:09:12.880
that have very neurobiological underlyings that have very, very well researched protocols for
04:09:17.820
addressing these things. And the thing that she's describing where essentially you're calling the
04:09:21.800
emotion, the emotion and the memory forward and reconsolidating it is based on hippocampal data.
04:09:26.640
We know that when you pull a memory forward and you reform it, every time you re re-experience that
04:09:32.580
memory, you're recoding it with like emotional colors. And so the goal of like PTSD therapy would
04:09:37.920
be reduction of nightmares, reduction of days off and reduction of flashbacks. And it doesn't always
04:09:44.000
work. There are some people that it is not effective on and there are other ways, but for
04:09:47.720
example, prolonged exposure is what it sounds like you're talking about is extremely effective
04:09:52.120
on average by and large. However, there is a caveat here again, which is that overall we said that
04:09:57.680
therapy is slightly less effective for men. And I would argue that's because we approach therapy
04:10:02.080
almost exclusively from a more feminine approach and there can be therapies and there are therapies
04:10:06.980
that focus on more mechanical movement. For example, teaching men to externalize, having therapy that's
04:10:12.700
focused outdoors and with movement, talking about like project-related processing, these things do
04:10:18.440
exist and are beginning to emerge because I think men have been underserved by therapy.
04:10:22.840
Well, it's like you said, you said that you'd way rather just not talk about it, wait out a week.
04:10:29.480
I personally want to, like I want to talk about it. I can't let it sit within.
04:10:36.100
You know, there's some variance here. I think you made some good points. And I think that
04:10:41.060
when I'm talking about therapy, I'm not talking about it so much from like trauma stuff, more so
04:10:48.820
like vaguely sad, like I'm vaguely unhappy. Uh, there's not like a specific traumatic experience
04:10:55.360
I'm trying to work through. It's more so just like I'm vaguely upset or sad about something,
04:10:59.920
or I just like, or perhaps the problem's been solved, but I'm just going to be perpetually in
04:11:05.200
therapy. Yeah. That's kind of confusing to me too. Mild to moderate depression and anxiety,
04:11:10.200
by and large, particularly in its state, which means like you're feeling sad. It's not like a
04:11:14.000
diagnosis can be solved by community. If you just immerse that person into a community that supports
04:11:18.180
them, most of these things go away because most people are sad because they're lonely. Sure. Final
04:11:21.620
thing on the therapy thing, just in response to you, you said you, you want to talk about that
04:11:25.280
things and stuff. Sorry, that was, you want to talk about things? Yeah. Like I got it. I got a therapist
04:11:30.700
after that year and a half breakup because I just couldn't put it on my friends to listen to me 24 seven.
04:11:38.160
Sure. Like, cause I'd be so anxious, so depressed. Like it was, but do you feel like the, if I can
04:11:44.940
make it from a relationship realm, uh, I don't feel the need to like, for example, if my girl,
04:11:51.160
uh, if I'm dating a girl and she does something that's annoying or something, I don't feel the need
04:11:55.860
to like in every instance, uh, if somebody has like said something that's like, whatever, kind of
04:12:01.640
annoying, or I don't feel the need to constantly litigate every single minor thing. I think part of
04:12:06.340
being in a relationship is giving the other person grace and like letting like minor things
04:12:11.300
unless they put the toilet paper the wrong way. Oh yeah, of course. Then you've got to,
04:12:16.020
then it's over, you know, but I think that like component of relationships is giving the other
04:12:21.940
person grace to like, maybe, especially this is especially the case for, for women. I think
04:12:26.920
like, if we say something that offends you, if maybe let a couple things slide, you know,
04:12:33.620
I've had girls are like every fucking thing. I don't think I was really necessarily saying,
04:12:40.380
I wasn't saying that. I was just saying like, I have a bad day. I had a bad day at work or something
04:12:46.420
really shitty happened. Like I'd rather just tell somebody about it, talk about it for a second.
04:12:51.540
And I'm more likely to get over it. My brain works on just festering on it. So I feel like
04:12:57.380
that's kind of like where we're different. We're going to move on. We have a chat here
04:13:00.320
from Blahfest. Speaking of which guys, TTS is $70. Oh, I forgot to change it. I'll just read it
04:13:05.220
then. Women attempt unaliving more times than men. There are more men who statistically unalive
04:13:09.460
themselves in total. Men are just better at it and less desperate for the attention women see comes
04:13:14.360
from it. I'm going to change the threshold on, on those, but yes. Thank you Blahfest for the,
04:13:21.380
message. Thank you. Thank you guys. TTS has been lowered. $69 TTS. If you want to get it in
04:13:26.740
$69 TTS. I'm going to finish up with the pre-show notes. Then we're going to get into some of the
04:13:31.740
questionnaire stuff. Let's see. We had, uh, Oh, final thing for you, Charlie, your final note here.
04:13:37.700
You disagree with the host and others that have been on the show when it comes to male loneliness
04:13:41.100
epidemic. You think that that exists because women are largely waking up to the tricks guys pull,
04:13:46.800
and that's just the free market doing its thing by weeding out weak men. I do. What tricks are,
04:13:53.700
what tricks are guys pulling and that women are waking up to? I mean, just in general, gaslighting.
04:14:00.500
What is that? What is that? I don't even know what that means. Gaslighting is kind of like,
04:14:03.760
if I said like, I'm gaslighting you right now. I do know. Okay. Well, sorry. Uh, what,
04:14:10.580
what is gas? You don't know what gaslighting is because you're fucking crazy. No, what is gaslighting
04:14:14.280
though? I mean, I don't have like a definitive definition. You don't even know. I think it's
04:14:18.760
just a buzzword. Women like to throw out. It's definitely, I can define it as like, if I'm
04:14:24.320
defining it as a verb where it's like, it's as if, if I said you did something or you saw like a text
04:14:31.140
that I sent or something. And then you're saying like, I saw you send this text and I'm like, no,
04:14:35.680
you didn't know you didn't. Even though you saw it, I'm now making you question whether you actually saw it
04:14:40.120
or not. That's just like something like that. It's crazy making. There's, it's from a movie.
04:14:43.380
This guy like tries to make his wife go crazy by like moving everything like slightly to the left.
04:14:48.240
It's the gaslighting comes from, it's not a psychological like psychotherapy word. People
04:14:52.060
weaponize it like that, but it's not from psychotherapy. I guess what I'm trying to say is
04:14:57.840
that there is an influx of a lot of men who want, as I said earlier in the podcast, some, someone who
04:15:03.520
wants like a traditional woman, but they aren't willing to be actually traditional men. And, you know,
04:15:09.300
seeing as how, you know, like, would you guys say you guys are free market, free market? Like
04:15:13.860
you guys say free market's the best, like capitalism's not perfect, but it's the best.
04:15:18.240
I mean, I've never spoken on my economic. I'm just saying that a lot of, a lot of conservative
04:15:23.320
leaning men will say that I support free market. Yeah. I don't, I don't think you should like
04:15:26.860
dump toxic sludge into rivers and stuff in the government. Yeah, no, but then what I'm, but then
04:15:32.300
what I was getting at is that like, well, a lot of women say that these guys are really low quality.
04:15:37.280
So let me hold on and like wait longer to see a guy that does come along who is a better
04:15:42.160
quality man. And that leads to a lot of the weaker men who aren't as traditional and aren't
04:15:49.200
really high quality. It leaves them without anybody to go with them, I guess is what I'm
04:15:54.160
trying to say. So, I mean, I guess that's what I was getting at is that.
04:15:58.620
Are you saying left leaning liberals or men who aren't leaning traditional are more depressed
04:16:06.020
or, or what do you, no, no, I haven't said that. I was just wondering like if you, who's
04:16:10.960
the lonely people, what's the demographic of the lonely men here? A lot of, a lot of men
04:16:15.440
that say there is a male loneliness epidemic tends, tends to be harsh right wing, not like
04:16:21.360
just like conservative. I'm not thinking. Oh, you're saying the opposite. Not like normal,
04:16:24.700
like traditional conservatives. I'm talking people who go off the deep end and they say
04:16:29.080
that there's some, in fairness, if you actually look at incel research, it's extremely politically
04:16:32.980
diverse. It's also like racially politically diverse. Yeah. By an, yeah. It's like, I think
04:16:37.720
it's a right wing talking point because the left, well, the left is so angry at men, like
04:16:43.120
the left and left speak, like I'm a left wing person. I advocate for men's stuff all the
04:16:48.220
time. And as a result of that, I'm a pariah in a lot of left spaces, right? The left really
04:16:52.660
doesn't want to be honest with itself about like plights and issues that men have, but
04:16:57.120
like, yeah, even incel data, you have like, there's like communists all the way to like
04:17:02.580
fascists within the incel ideology by and large from what, this is like Costello's research
04:17:07.320
at least. I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. People expect it to be right wing, but it actually isn't.
04:17:12.620
How do you determine someone's involuntarily celibate versus, like how do you even know?
04:17:18.260
Can women be involved? Like how do you even determine someone, is it a self ID thing or?
04:17:23.180
Yeah. I think the men who, uh, self ID is that are essentially, they're trying to get
04:17:27.420
pussy and they're, they cannot do it, but they'll also like, they would never like approach a grandma
04:17:33.220
and like get pussy, which they probably could. Oh, and to answer your question, Brian. Yeah.
04:17:39.080
There are like women. It was in response to the grandma pussy comment. There are like women who
04:17:46.260
are fall under involuntary celibates, but in buzzword spaces, they're called femcels is kind
04:17:53.200
of like what they call it. It's impossible. A woman can't be involuntarily celibate.
04:17:57.400
Well, she could be really, really, really ugly. Right. And then it's like most men won't want to
04:18:01.840
fuck her, but most incels, for example, would never fuck a grandma, but there's a lot of grandmas
04:18:05.980
that probably would be down for some young dick and would be pretty open to how ugly a dude would
04:18:09.900
look. But most guys would be like, ew. Right. So it's like, yeah, but also the incel phenomena,
04:18:14.920
the femcels do steal a lot of valor from incels, which have a very different problem by and large.
04:18:20.420
Yeah. I mean, I, hold on, let me let this chat come through or actually wait, I'll address it.
04:18:26.280
The incels are going to be so mad. Now you, where are you getting this information? You mentioned
04:18:30.920
the science earlier. Which information? The incel science. He's asking about the incel science.
04:18:35.340
William Costello is probably one of the most like foremost researchers on incel stuff. He's the
04:18:39.300
first researcher who's actually tried to approach incel groups. Uh, honestly, right. Most research
04:18:45.020
on incels is like, do they hate women? Yes, they do. And it's like, oh, shocker. Uh, he's the first
04:18:50.340
one who's like befriended, worked with incel groups and studied them like where they are in their like
04:18:55.380
forums and stuff like that. Like Jane Goodall. Yeah. Like Jane Goodall, but for incels. Yes. I'll let
04:19:02.220
him know. I'll let these, uh, chats come through. Thank you. Blahfest. Blahfest donated $200. Thank
04:19:08.100
you, man. I'm a high quality, hardworking, respectful, and traditional man. I love my wife
04:19:14.120
and my girlfriend so much. I don't think I have it in my heart to cheat on them. All right.
04:19:19.540
Thank you. Blahfest for the big $200, uh, TTS. Really appreciate it, man. We have your friend
04:19:23.900
Intel wild coming in to talk some shit. Uh, Kyla. So incoming. Oh, my best buddy. Thank you. Blahfest.
04:19:31.940
Appreciate it, man. Uh, if you guys want $69 TTS. Intel wild donated $69. Sweet Jesus, not so bright.
04:19:41.060
Please cover up that stomach. We can see the jelly rolls bursting out. You know that this dude's fat.
04:19:47.660
You know that this guy is some like fat motherfucker. Uh, I'm definitely heavier than I, uh, like I said,
04:19:53.440
I'm at the end of a bulk. I am definitely hammered. Mine is a little bit extra. I just don't care.
04:19:59.120
Wow. Yeah. Nice. Okay. I guess see me in two months, see if the bulk pays off, uh, the cutting
04:20:03.380
pays off. So to you though, you think that there's like fem cells exist? Women can be involuntarily
04:20:08.200
celibate? I think so. I mean, not necessarily in a buzzword sense. Yes. Like a woman who's like a
04:20:15.300
misandrous hates men. I could say that. Yeah, that's a fem cell. Like someone who just hates men with
04:20:20.420
like, you know, I could say I could see that. Yeah. But I mean, I haven't, I haven't really
04:20:25.520
put much thought into it cause I don't think about just curious though. Do you think like
04:20:29.240
guys who are mega players who have smashed like 200, 300 women, do you think they're like
04:20:34.160
the pinnacle of feminism or do you think they probably have like some misogynistic tendencies
04:20:38.680
or do you, or they, they also maybe have like some, uh, views on women that are not particularly
04:20:44.320
like, uh, well-received by feminists? I could, I could see it. Yeah. Like mega players probably
04:20:51.280
don't have like super high opinions. I agree. Of women. I can see that. Yeah. Versus like the
04:20:56.100
average guy. They're probably, I would say like mega players probably lean more misogynistic
04:21:02.280
than like your average guy who has like an average body count. So this idea that like we're linking
04:21:07.600
like one's ability to get laid with misogyny is kind of interesting. But, um, I just don't,
04:21:13.980
I genuinely don't see how like, I suppose a particular woman could be involuntarily celibate.
04:21:22.160
Like she's just, she's just like 800 pounds and like even like she's just bad looking. But
04:21:33.100
like the, if you look at like these incel men, like probably a lot of them are below average
04:21:39.400
looking, I would say. Um, but I think below, like, if you look at like their male, if you
04:21:45.240
look at a quote unquote, like, uh, uh, a male incel, his female equivalent looks wise, she
04:21:53.540
can fuck three dudes in a day. Isn't the only metric for this whole terminology, just sex,
04:22:00.440
like just the act of sex. Like that's the ultimate, that's the definition, right? It's
04:22:05.560
like, can you get sex? Yeah. Yeah. So like, what if it's the case that both men and women
04:22:10.960
are slowly rejecting this sort of like lingering sexual liberation, uh, crop dust that we're
04:22:19.920
in? Uh, and maybe they, maybe, maybe in the incelibate thing is actually, could be a good
04:22:25.420
thing. What if it's a pushback and people are like, well, maybe I just want to get to know
04:22:29.800
someone and, and with technology and all of this promiscuity, it's really hard to navigate.
04:22:35.640
That'd be a vol cell. Maybe they just want to like, yeah, maybe they just want to like,
04:22:39.880
yeah, that, that's the thing is like, that's why I'm like incel involuntary, voluntary. It
04:22:45.160
seems to be a bit ambiguous given that there's a lot of other variables at play. Well, I think
04:22:50.360
it would just strictly be like, this is somebody who's not like waiting until marriage and they
04:22:54.460
are desirous. They're trying to. They're desirous of at least having a singular sexual
04:22:59.380
encounter and they can't like, they cannot get a singular sexual encounter.
04:23:06.340
Yeah. Like that's what I'm wondering. Maybe, maybe they should rearrange their priority to
04:23:12.600
for marriage or something instead. Maybe it'll change things.
04:23:17.260
We have Intel wilds here. Oh boy. Here it is. Intel wilds. There it is. Thank you. Intel
04:23:26.080
Intel wilds donated $69, five feet, 10 inches, 170. Nice. Try crazy lady. WJ. W. Jim Bob.
04:23:37.780
Is that, what's he talking about? Is that me? No, him. He's not, he's not, he's not, he's not a fatso.
04:23:44.160
That's him. That's him. He's not a fatty. He's, he's, he's trim. That's a good, that's a good,
04:23:50.180
congrats Intel wild. Good job. I'm proud of you. Um, really quick question for the panel starting
04:23:56.540
with you, Kelly. Equality or chivalry? If you had to pick one. Quality. Equality. Okay. Absolutely
04:24:07.720
one. Equality, but I also don't believe that those are mutually exclusive. Sure. Equality.
04:24:16.060
Chivalry. Equality. Chivalry. Chivalry. Chivalry. There you go. No, that's fine. Uh, okay.
04:24:24.740
Okay. That's interesting. That's interesting. Uh, okay. Oh wait, how about this? Um, democracy
04:24:32.160
or abortion? Same thing. So would you, would you rather have a democracy or access to abortion
04:24:43.560
starting with Kelly? Wouldn't access to democracy give you access to abortion? In this world, you
04:24:50.380
can only have one. In this. Yeah. So let's assume it's like a, a Republican conservative
04:24:56.000
democracy. Yeah. Democracy. You pick democracy. Okay. Democracy. I'm confused. Sorry. Oh, it's
04:25:03.280
just, uh, if, if you had to choose one, so would you rather have democracy in a country or, but
04:25:10.160
no, no abortion rights whatsoever, or it's could be like totalitarian, authoritarian, monarchy,
04:25:15.540
whatever it is. Uh, no democracy. You can't vote anymore, but you, your right to abortion
04:25:20.560
is preserved. Oh, democracy. Okay. Democracy. Democracy. Democracy. Okay. All right. That
04:25:27.340
was not bad. All right. We got a chat here from Jake Burnett. Uh-oh. Jake Burnett's donated
04:25:32.320
$69. It's past Jay's bedtime and he's lost so many brain cells. He's falling asleep. Not so you
04:25:40.500
ride. I can tell Jay not to give an entire history lesson, but every time you speak, you
04:25:45.160
give an endless yap with an essay. So we'll get into, I want to try to bring in a topic
04:25:50.780
so we can get Jay in. Pumped up. I got, I got a topic coming up here for Jay. Really quick.
04:25:56.140
I want to do, he'll go. I want to read one of your notes and then we'll come back to some
04:25:59.920
of your notes a little bit later. Uh, you said, uh, uh, here, I'll just do a simple one really
04:26:07.040
quick. In a relationship, sleeping in different rooms or beds is okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. I'm
04:26:12.460
on board. I'm actually on board with this. I'm on board with this. I think a lot of people
04:26:16.440
could probably get behind different rooms because it's not like you can't go to each other's
04:26:20.940
room, but you have your own space and you have, you know, it's just your own independent
04:26:24.800
space separate from each other. Um, beds, I guess kind of goes with that too. Um, but yeah,
04:26:30.520
I think that that's okay. Any, anybody have thoughts on this? Like you're okay with having
04:26:35.600
separate, separate beds, separate rooms. I think it's healthy, healthy to have space
04:26:40.040
in a relationship, but I like to cuddle. So I guess you can still go over, spend the night
04:26:46.880
in their room. It's just, you have your separate space. That'll stay the night. Yeah. Come
04:26:50.820
sleep over. Yeah. I just want my own closet. Okay. We're good. All right. Um, what about
04:27:03.520
you, uh, separate beds, separate rooms? I don't want to yuck on your yum. Uh, in
04:27:10.760
general, I think I'm very concerned for the health of relationship if they can't share
04:27:15.540
a bedroom together. I think you're concerned. Yeah. I think there are situations like, you
04:27:20.060
know, like if one person has a syndrome or like their legs, like restless leg syndrome
04:27:23.580
and stuff. Like he's going to Kung Fu the chick and yeah. Like she can't sleep beside him
04:27:27.060
because he's literally like vibrating while he's asleep. Not murder. Just like he's like
04:27:30.860
with his legs. With his legs. Sure. Yeah. Um, but by and large, I guess the question
04:27:35.280
is, is, um, concerns me when I see that. Wouldn't there always be some reason for
04:27:38.900
separate, like I can't imagine. We're just going to arbitrarily, if they're otherwise
04:27:42.780
fine sleeping together, we're just going to arbitrarily, there would always be a reason
04:27:46.580
for the separate beds thing. Right. I just think most, a lot of reasons that I hear are
04:27:50.020
not very compelling to me. What about like sleep? Like, oh man, it's hard for me to sleep
04:27:53.520
in the same room as somebody. Uh, again, it would depend on like what that is. Uh, so
04:27:59.020
like if they're just like, I just don't like sleeping near anyone, I'd be like, well, it's
04:28:02.420
kind of weird, but I guess do your thing. Um, if they're just like, I just need my own
04:28:06.440
space. Wait, was this the topic that was going to get Jay fired up? No, no. I wanted to do
04:28:12.860
one of her notes. Then we'll get to, hopefully we'll get to that topic. So what's your, what's
04:28:18.800
your reason for wanting it? Um, mainly I think just to have your own room and your own space
04:28:24.160
and all your own stuff. And it's just kind of like yours is yours. Sure. What about
04:28:28.260
you? I'm down to have like a guest bedroom, but for the most part, like I just want my
04:28:33.720
own closet, maybe separate bathrooms, but bed I'm sharing. What about you? Uh, own your
04:28:40.300
own bedroom. I would say. Yeah. You're, you're fine with it. Yeah. I like the idea of having
04:28:44.920
your own self-expression and you don't have to like compromise so much and then you can
04:28:50.240
just, you know, go to each other's rooms after it doesn't matter. Sure. Jim Bob. Uh, I would
04:28:55.180
say same bed, try to keep that. Um, not to say like you can't have like a, I don't know,
04:29:00.820
like a, a day bed in like a studio where you just like pass out because you're, you know,
04:29:05.720
you're doing stuff. But, um, I kind of look at it from a, even though it's unlikely, I
04:29:11.240
look at it from a protective lens where like I want access to be able to defend my family
04:29:16.520
and my wife. So I want to be closer if something occurred. That makes sense. Jay, what about
04:29:21.100
you? Um, I'm married late in life. So I was really used to not having like somebody in
04:29:26.520
my personal space every single night. Um, but then when I got married, it took me about
04:29:30.980
a year or two. I got really used to it. So I like it now. And then like when we, you
04:29:34.940
know, like sometimes I do snore, like not every night, but maybe once every month or so. Um,
04:29:40.520
sometimes like you can have, you know, if somebody's sick or something like that, somebody goes in
04:29:43.900
the other room, but like, I think typically you're going to want somebody. Yeah. And I'm
04:29:49.660
not, I would, I'm okay with sharing a room or a bed. I'm just saying it's okay. I like,
04:29:54.140
I could see why you would. And I'm, I kind of could go either way. I think. Yeah. Yeah.
04:29:58.100
I'm, I'm kind of big on the separate. I like the separate beds, separate room. I just like
04:30:03.860
the separate messes. Yeah. Separate messes. I feel like that'll avoid a fight. You make your
04:30:09.540
room messy. I make my room messy. No one. Yeah. I think separate rooms is good. Cause
04:30:15.700
I'm messy. Cause usually girls are clean. Like the dudes are messy.
04:30:21.740
I mean like my closet's a disaster from getting dressed today and I don't plan on cleaning it
04:30:27.300
up tonight or maybe tomorrow. So it's like that type of stuff. But no, I feel like men are
04:30:32.020
very messy. If you're, if you're the girl cleaning and you're cleaning up after a man every time,
04:30:38.420
I mean, obviously everyone has their own situation, but yeah, I, okay. Rock and roll.
04:30:46.820
All right. Let me get into the questionnaire here, which hopefully we'll be able to get Jane
04:30:50.060
to on some of the stuff. Uh, let's see here while we go Kyla's notes to see if there's anything
04:30:57.340
there. Uh, you did like little squiggly signs, which I guess is like, maybe like me, depending
04:31:02.780
on how we phrase it. So a man dating a transgender woman is straight to what you're, he's like more
04:31:07.600
gay than a guy, not dating a transgender, but he's, it's, it's more straight than a guy dating
04:31:13.360
a man, you know? Okay. So it's like a, it's a spectrum is what you're saying. Yeah. If they
04:31:18.640
have titties, it's obviously more femme than if they have a penis and chest hair. I see. Yeah.
04:31:23.360
Okay. I would actually be, I think that probably grant that, uh, but you wouldn't say that it would
04:31:28.420
be straight. It'd be straighter, straighter. Okay. But it wouldn't be, for example, like a man
04:31:35.400
dating a transgender woman, they would not be in a heterosexual relationship. Uh, they'd probably
04:31:42.960
use that label. I'd be fine with that. I don't really care. But would it be from your perspective,
04:31:48.000
a heterosexual relationship? Mostly. What do you hold on? Mostly. Yeah. Cause she's in most ways,
04:31:57.740
super femme, she's presenting femme, but there's obviously in a lot of cases, there's no chance
04:32:02.120
for pregnancy. There's oftentimes not a vagina going on. Right. So it's not quite heterosexual.
04:32:08.040
Hold on. But hetero. So we're talking about the binary though, because I'm treating these
04:32:12.020
things, obviously spectrum, right? Well, there's not a sex. There's a jet. I'll go ahead and grant
04:32:16.980
that there's a gender spectrum, but there's not a sex spectrum. Like it's binary. Sure. But I think
04:32:22.160
when you're talking about like heterosexuality to homosexuality, you're talking about being gay
04:32:26.160
or straight. And so in that sense, I would say, which is sex, it's sex, not gender. It's heterosexuality
04:32:32.120
pertains to sex, not gender. I guess I'm rejecting your, uh, your binary approach. I mean,
04:32:37.160
it's literally, but it's literally in the word definition itself. Heterosexuality. That's not how
04:32:42.480
we, that's not how we like define things though. Right. Wait, it's same sex, opposite sex
04:32:46.440
relationships. Are you a science denier? No, I'm not a science denier. I don't think anyone says
04:32:54.400
that sexuality and homosexuality is this like binary thing in the way that we'd say like sex
04:32:59.640
is because sex is binary for a number of reasons. It's not just genitalia. It's a whole number of
04:33:03.960
factions, but it's heterosexuality and homosexuality is much less of a biological concept. It's much
04:33:09.440
more of like a social concept of how we label relationships, which is why it's more spectrum
04:33:13.980
between sexes. Between genders a lot of time, right? No. Yes. Between sexes. That's maybe how you
04:33:19.820
define it. That's just not how I do. Okay. The word itself is a social construct, but the behavior
04:33:24.160
that's observed is object. Wouldn't that be objective? Yeah. That's why it would be
04:33:29.400
spectrum, right? Like if she has, if you're having sex with somebody and you're like sucking
04:33:32.640
on their titty, but also like they have a penis, it's obviously less straight than. It's her
04:33:39.540
titty, but his penis. Are you splitting it? No, no. It's her titty and her penis. At the
04:33:42.820
torso? It's her titty and her penis. Wait, you think there is such a thing as her penis? Yeah.
04:33:46.720
How's that? Is that binary or? Is that a binary? What is a gender? Well, it's. You're the one
04:33:52.760
making the claim. Yeah. Well, I don't think that like sex is just genitalia. Okay. Do you
04:33:56.240
think there's a difference between sex and gender? Yes. Okay. Can a female sex, a female
04:34:03.100
be a trans woman? Can a female, like a sex woman? If gender and sex are different, can
04:34:12.820
a female be a trans woman? No, because the whole point of trans is that you're transitioning
04:34:17.260
to the opposite gender. Oh, binary. You mean transitioning to a different sex? Nope. Performing
04:34:22.180
as the opposite gender. Okay. Well, though, if it's different. You don't suddenly become like
04:34:26.040
XY when you take the start. You just reduce it to sex. If it's impossible for a female. Well,
04:34:30.600
you have reduced it to that, but I have not. Right. So if you want to gauge my world.
04:34:33.960
What's the transition? What's the transition then? The transition is the gender performance
04:34:38.580
from what to what? A woman to man in this case. Which is what? Which is what? A transgender
04:34:45.580
in that case. A transgender man. So you see how silly this is. It's over. Like you're insane. I get
04:34:51.920
it. You guys don't like trans shit. You're insane. No, you're actually insane. Okay. Like you're an
04:34:55.520
insane person. Uh, you guys already acknowledge that gender is spectral. I didn't say that. No.
04:35:00.340
You said that. We're just asking you. Oh, you guys don't think gender and sex are
04:35:04.420
different? No. That was just me, I guess. Oh, okay. No, I think once I think they're
04:35:08.480
informed from a binary. That's why this question is absolutely downstream from a binary. This
04:35:13.800
question destroys the entire paradigm because if premise one is sex and gender are not the
04:35:20.960
same and transgender is this transition of genders. It's not a transition of sex. Then a
04:35:26.820
female, which is sex could be a trans woman, but you said they can't be because of, but
04:35:33.660
they're not really transitioning anywhere. Right? Like, yeah, that's our point. There
04:35:37.120
is no transition. If you want to hear my definition, right? Typically gender is downstream of sex.
04:35:43.220
This is obviously true when you're born. When is it atypical? Uh, there's multiple situations
04:35:47.960
where it's atypical. There's lots of women that are born with an XY condition, but they're
04:35:51.700
testes essentially. Can I identify as that? It's literally not sex and it's arguable about
04:35:56.420
whether or not they're a man or woman because their testes don't drop. So they express, they
04:36:00.300
have a vagina, they have tits. So physical. They have a vagina, they have tits. They go through
04:36:06.560
female puberty. The only thing that you catch them in is they don't have a period because
04:36:10.440
their testes are ever dropped. Can I identify as that? Can I identify as that? Well, there's
04:36:13.720
a massive question of which sex that person is. The thing you just described, can I identify
04:36:17.780
as having that phenomenon? What's a chair? Define a chair for me. This is what you're
04:36:25.320
doing. You don't answer questions. I answer questions, Jim, all the time. No, I answer
04:36:31.340
your questions the entire conversation. The issue is that when you find answers that you
04:36:35.960
don't like, you just insist that I don't answer questions. You have still not answered my question
04:36:40.660
about objectivism versus absolutism. You've run away from it the entire time. You still
04:36:44.880
not answered my questions about objectivism. Well, you're not worthy of answering either,
04:36:49.340
so I get to use the same fail-save. You claim that you know the topics and you don't know
04:36:53.420
one book in the topic. You don't know anything about the gender spectrum. You don't know one
04:36:55.480
book in the topic. You got exposed as a fraud. I'm sorry, Jay. You're not worthy for me to talk
04:36:59.020
to on this topic. I just can't. You don't know this subject. Does it have to do with sofas?
04:37:05.060
So this is the problem with it, and this is why it's such a defeater, is that if there's two
04:37:10.040
different things you're talking about, every time you point to some sort of obscure
04:37:14.300
deformity or some weird atypical biological expression that happens between genes or the-
04:37:22.380
Hold on a second. You're actually pointing to someone, something, that has nothing to do with
04:37:31.040
Yeah, which is why I said it's downstream, but it's not one-to-one. Sex is categorized by a number
04:37:36.060
of things. It's your chromosomes, your physical expression, the gametes that you produce,
04:37:45.300
You spouting out science terms doesn't get you anywhere.
04:37:49.160
That just tells me you don't know what these words mean.
04:37:56.420
You spouting out terms and asking for definitions?
04:38:02.480
You can't have a conversation because all she does is ask for definitions of words.
04:38:06.500
I want to know, help me understand your position.
04:38:10.240
I would love to, but you guys keep interrupting me and won't engage with me.
04:38:16.920
No, they tend to be arrived to by like social concession.
04:38:19.700
However, scientific words typically are operationally defined.
04:38:28.560
Are you just going to go down some epistemic claim?
04:38:34.280
You just spit stuff out, but how do you know that?
04:38:39.620
So you're just going to cuss, but you don't know.
04:38:47.940
You literally just machine gun bullshit nonstop.
04:38:59.020
There's not like epistemic systems that you subscribe to.
04:39:03.080
How do you know that your microphone exists in this world?
04:39:10.600
I'm just curious how you, Jay, know that your microphone exists.
04:39:14.080
So your answer to my question is to ask me a question.
04:39:37.820
I want to understand your position about when you say words are defined this way and this
04:39:45.220
They tend to be arrived to at a social collection as well as in science.
04:39:48.960
It's operationally defined because that's the norm that we all live in, which you live
04:39:55.360
So because we all, because we all, you said because everybody says that or believes that
04:40:03.180
I said that we tend to arrive in terms that are like denotative by operational definition
04:40:14.060
Connotatively, we typically arrive to by like some sort of social agreement.
04:40:17.260
You tell me what we do and I want to know how you know that it's true.
04:40:19.780
Do you disagree that we come to the arrival of what words mean by some level of social
04:40:26.320
So when you get pinned, you dodge by asking a question because you can't make any.
04:40:29.020
I have answered your question every single time and then I respond to the
04:40:33.160
answers that you don't like because you don't want to engage in a group of trilemma because
04:40:36.940
you know that you get stuck in the same position.
04:40:37.840
Why are you bringing up something about, I'm asking your position, you're asking me questions.
04:40:40.140
Because what you're doing is an epistemic walk down of self-justifying the why, why,
04:40:51.720
You said we observe it and we all have that norm.
04:40:55.500
That's an appeal to society, which is a fallacy.
04:40:58.120
It's not a fallacy to say that the way that we come to connotations is by broadly social
04:41:02.680
It's not appeal to masses when you're talking about the social collection of words.
04:41:14.900
How do connotative words get defined in your worldview?
04:41:24.040
Because your questions are gibberish nonsense when you get caught.
04:41:29.820
All I've had is multiple answers to your questions.
04:41:35.140
But you're bulked up according to your own terms.
04:41:35.580
I've outlined the difference between sex and gender.
04:41:37.680
And I've also outlined how you arrive at definitions.
04:41:45.320
Oh, you're just going for now, are you fat, Joe?
04:41:50.340
Well, no, I ended bulking like four days ago now.
04:41:54.260
Can someone, regardless of their sex, be any gender?
04:41:59.120
Oh, now we want to talk about real things again.
04:42:04.760
Because despite that, you can't answer a single fucking question that I've asked you all
04:42:08.000
I don't owe you an answer to your dumbass question.
04:42:27.720
And I don't know if I'm using this term correctly.
04:42:31.400
So it seems like both of you strongly disagree.
04:42:36.500
Instead of like a constant like back and forth, you ask a question, he answers a question.
04:42:43.220
What if I give each of you like you ask 10 questions, you respond to them without asking a question
04:42:50.100
And then once he's asked his 10 questions, you then can ask him 10 questions to which
04:43:08.220
But I'm only going to answer her questions relevant to our topic.
04:43:13.400
So he doesn't have to answer the previous questions that he dodged.
04:43:19.360
If that's the caveat he's going to add to it, I refuse those grants.
04:43:24.760
A debate is where we both engage with one another.
04:43:26.640
Her whole thing is to bring in irrelevant questions.
04:43:29.720
Did he ever answer the question absolutism versus objectivism at any point?
04:43:35.820
It's irrelevant what anyone else thinks about whether...
04:43:41.660
All you're doing right now is admitting to me that you're being bad faith.
04:43:54.380
No, I reject that because the questions I would like to get answered...
04:43:58.080
The questions I would like to get answered are the questions I've been trying to get answered
04:44:02.140
The only thing you can do is talk about totally irrelevant other topics than what we're debating.
04:44:26.700
He's a handsome guy, but the reality is he's terrified of aging.
04:44:36.300
He told me before, by the way, he was like, if there's any Asians there, I literally
04:44:44.560
I actually made sure there wouldn't be any here today.
04:44:48.680
This kind of exploded, but I didn't get a clear answer.
04:44:57.900
No, I literally just turned to Charlie and I said, just so you know, it's a joke.
04:45:19.140
I'm not answering any of her gibberish that's not relevant to the topic because her whole
04:45:27.020
Okay, then I'll just move it on, but I do want to say that's not pussy.
04:45:46.240
When you were describing the things like, well, if a man has-
04:45:52.100
If a man has like titties and the makeup and the wig and the vagina, and I was like,
04:46:02.620
I just want to make sure I'm interested in you.
04:46:03.780
You were saying how a biological male, when they transition, change their gender from man
04:46:36.720
Here, I could prove it's not a vagina if you think it is.
04:46:39.600
If I got the same exact surgery done right here on my cheek, is that a vagina?
04:46:49.760
Yeah, every single person who would look at you would be like, why is that dude got a vagina
04:47:02.640
A cis woman's vagina as opposed to what other kind of vagina?
04:47:05.680
Well, because you're saying real vagina, so I'm assuming you mean cis.
04:47:08.840
Because you literally don't seem like a sane person.
04:47:15.980
Are you saying that instead of women having mouths, they should have vaginas there instead
04:47:25.520
As a sole feminist here at the table, you're kind of being on the side.
04:47:29.220
Can they utilize queefs effectively to form words?
04:47:39.440
Because you're basically saying something that's an imposter is identical to the thing
04:47:50.320
Well, now that we're back to this topic, do you want to define objectivism versus absolutism
04:48:13.320
You did a little squiggly line to you agree men are more privileged in society than women.
04:48:21.740
I think women are more privileged in a number of areas and men are more privileged in a number
04:48:34.020
Do you want to bite on that one, Jay, or not so much?
04:48:39.300
That's so antithetical to everything he cares about.
04:48:51.460
Well, if you're pro-patriarchy and all these sorts of things, I imagine that you wouldn't
04:48:54.720
want to say something that male privilege, men have more privilege because then you're
04:48:59.000
acknowledging something that sounds negative, but also you wouldn't want to say that females
04:49:09.340
If you can't keep up with this at this point, Jay, that says a lot more about you than it
04:49:15.000
Like if you think I'm a child and I'm all these like bad things and yet you also can't understand
04:49:32.460
Again, I get that you don't like what I'm saying.
04:49:34.920
It's like talking to a person on this, like a bum in the street.
04:49:36.760
It's like the type of like schizo gibberish that they say.
04:49:50.540
Schizo person on the street, like it's the same level of understanding of subjectivity
04:49:55.300
that words are defined according to you and you can make them into that.
04:50:00.380
It's a, A, I, I am an, I'm, I, relativism is not the opposite.
04:50:28.700
This is why I don't suspect that she knows anything about philosophy.
04:50:42.440
I did see you speaking with some homeless people.
04:50:45.860
You were hanging out with some homeless people.
04:50:48.060
What you just said is absurd because if you hold both of those true, which one's the
04:51:02.060
These two things are not mutually exclusive concepts.
04:51:12.440
I'm not giving you the lecture like you wanted me to do yesterday.
04:51:14.600
With a field degree, you should know the answer to this.
04:51:18.800
Objectivism is rooted in something like platonic forms.
04:51:21.240
It believes that there is a true sense of a concept like justice and that this is a
04:51:25.760
universal, essentially, idea or construct that exists.
04:51:29.180
Whereas relativism is way more interested in things like looking at the situation around
04:51:36.260
It's essentially saying you don't have to apply all law equally to every person because
04:51:41.000
there's always so much more complicated going on to find things.
04:51:45.960
He believes that basically all law should be applied equally to everyone.
04:51:49.220
This is not the same as objectivism in any way, shape, or form because objectivism just
04:51:52.740
believes that there is a true concept of like justice.
04:51:58.940
It's like Derrida that says there is no such thing as a true anything.
04:52:05.000
And this is where like postmodernist theory comes in.
04:52:10.560
You don't understand Kant because you couldn't tell me one of his books.
04:52:29.200
Do you disagree that Kant is not an absolutist?
04:52:37.520
I literally just said that I don't know what it's called.
04:52:53.960
You reference things that you don't understand.
04:53:15.500
He believes in a duty-based ethic that he thinks you can ontologize to all people.
04:53:20.820
He thinks you can universalize it, but he doesn't believe that it's absolute and it's
04:53:25.960
That's called the phenomenal noumenal distinction.
04:53:28.220
I didn't say objective, and I didn't say he's an objectivist.
04:53:30.880
I said he's an absolutist, which thank you, I guess, for agreeing with me in a really
04:53:34.480
In your definition, you said absolute was universal?
04:53:42.840
Kant doesn't believe that there's any universal.
04:53:44.600
He's got the categorical imperative, which is essentially lying.
04:53:47.080
He thinks lying is the only universal law that you can apply to.
04:53:49.660
It's deontological ethics that you can universalize every ethical situation.
04:53:53.660
That's not refuting anything about the categorical imperative.
04:53:55.500
It shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
04:53:58.400
You're allowed to not know certain words, but you can still engage with the ideas.
04:54:03.360
This is why, for example, you know what you would never do?
04:54:05.600
You would never talk to me about psychology because you know you'd get fucking obliterated.
04:54:08.240
So now she has to go to the discipline that she came-
04:54:11.640
That she isn't here to debate because she doesn't know the discipline she's trying to debate.
04:54:27.020
I've already told you I don't know the title of any of these things.
04:54:29.940
I don't even know the title of William Costello's articles that I'm citing.
04:54:49.220
You just lie about what you think you know because you're on a performative debate setting and
04:54:56.740
Which is crazy because you'd think that if I was such a liar and such a stupid head, you
04:55:03.520
You still don't know the difference between these words.
04:55:07.320
You don't know the difference between these words.
04:55:10.400
You think a dunk for me is not knowing titles of books.
04:55:13.200
You came to debate topics that you don't know anything about.
04:55:15.820
Remember when we talked about Heidegger last time and we agreed that chatter is a silly
04:55:21.120
Remember when we talked about that and you agreed to it?
04:55:41.320
Please name one Heidegger book to show that you've read Heidegger.
04:55:48.180
Memorizing book titles is not evidence of knowing a book.
04:56:03.200
Can you name the difference between objectivism and absolutism?
04:56:05.940
Because yesterday you said that they were synonymous.
04:56:09.900
Last time you said that objectivism and absolutism is synonymous, which is false and you know that
04:56:16.640
Can you define the difference between these two words?
04:56:18.600
The words can mean the same thing depending upon the end.
04:56:19.380
You were not using them in an equivocating way.
04:56:41.220
Just because I don't know the specific letter names doesn't mean that I haven't read the
04:56:47.780
The first dialogue is broadly about arete, which is this idea of purpose of things.
04:56:51.840
So he goes into lions and how their purpose is to kill and how forks the purpose is to
04:56:57.080
And so the question of the first dialogue is essentially, what is the purpose of humans?
04:57:00.880
Because they're somewhere between demons and God.
04:57:07.540
The fifth one, for example, goes into friendship and friendships of virtue.
04:57:11.020
And he talks about the three types of friendship.
04:57:12.940
And he asks the question, how do you achieve friendships of virtue and what are their values?
04:57:16.560
Just so it's clear, all of this proves that I've read these books.
04:57:21.340
He's just mad because I don't know the title of the dialogue.
04:57:24.200
I'm sorry if I'm able to cite you multiple portions of what the book is about.
04:57:28.480
This proves that I have engaged with the philosophy.
04:57:30.840
You are squirming so hard because you realize that you don't know the difference between these
04:57:36.260
two words, which massively causes the question of your validity.
04:57:39.540
You have not even once answered the question of the difference between absolutism and objectivism.
04:57:46.000
What you don't understand is that those are words that can be used in different systems
04:57:52.300
Moral objectivism and moral absolutism are defined very clearly within the systems.
04:57:55.960
Now you're equivocating because you said just the words.
04:57:58.000
And those words depend on the systems that they're using and the philosophers that use them.
04:58:04.360
This is what you do throughout debates when you ask people to explain.
04:58:10.540
Because in your mind, that's actually an argument.
04:58:19.480
Just define the difference between these two words.
04:58:26.520
What's the difference between absolutism and objectivism?
04:58:29.000
I don't know why you're running from this question so much.
04:58:31.120
It's easy to ask this question, and I can answer it based on the philosophers that are in question.
04:58:39.700
He's telling you that the words themselves depend on the context and the philosophers.
04:58:50.260
Broadly, the philosophical body of academic literature.
04:59:10.340
I actually have to go back 30 years to Ayn Rand objectivism, which actually isn't in the
04:59:28.940
So you agree that there's a difference between absolutism and objectivism, that they are not
04:59:32.700
synonymous terms, and yesterday when you implied that they were synonymous terms to
04:59:35.640
get a sick dunk on me, you were fucking lying or retarded, I guess.
04:59:39.080
No, I said the same thing yesterday, that the words are used by different philosophers
04:59:43.580
and different systems, and it depends upon which one.
04:59:46.420
So I said earlier that I could say that I'm individually a subjectivist.
04:59:55.580
Well, you won't answer that one, so let's go to the next one.
05:00:04.260
Well, if you're going to talk about sex, you should probably know what a gamete is, right?
05:00:29.440
Really quick, some shout-outs for Venmo Cash App contributions.
05:00:39.820
And then Laura, thank you for the 25 on Cash App.
05:00:43.300
If you guys want, we're doing $69 TTS if you want to get them in.
05:01:00.560
Use a bunch of terminology I don't fully understand.
05:01:13.640
You mimic every one of his movements all the way down to his facial tics.
05:01:17.920
As somebody who worked with him for a year and a half.
05:01:19.160
And you thought that he was actually a good debater.
05:01:31.640
Intel should pay me for all these sex fantasies he's having in me.
05:01:36.340
Uh, we also have, uh, I can't even say the name.
05:01:58.780
Um, we have Wrath coming in here in just a minute.
05:02:15.260
Every time there is a spurg fist, I know it's time to start, change over, fold, hang,
05:02:28.680
Here, you say it's sort of wrong for a man to dump his girlfriend if she regularly turns
05:02:36.720
You also, Kelly, you also agree with that if the girlfriend or wife regularly turns him
05:02:44.540
down for sex, wrong for him to dump them and that, why is that?
05:02:49.340
Here, why don't we start with Kelly, then we'll go to Kyla.
05:02:51.500
I think the pressure of having to engage in sexual activity shouldn't rely so much on the destiny of a relationship.
05:03:06.840
Like, if a woman just doesn't want to have sex all the time, but she's still, like, having sex.
05:03:14.360
And the guy is not feeling satisfied and is putting pressure and is putting the whole relationship in jeopardy because of that one soul aspect.
05:03:26.660
There's so much more to a relationship than sex.
05:03:31.280
Would you, would you, uh, yourself be in an asexual relationship?
05:03:41.720
Well, you're saying that, so, I mean, I agree with you that there's more to a relationship than just sex.
05:03:52.680
You, you yourself, I'm, well, I guess it's not a.
05:03:56.960
What priority, I guess, would be a good question.
05:03:59.400
Like, if there, if we all agree that a relationship is, uh, composed of various aspects, if sex, I would say most people argue that it's a fairly important, depending on their age, uh, aspect.
05:04:11.900
So what level of importance in, like, one to ten is, uh, regular sex?
05:04:20.640
But it's not, it shouldn't determine the destiny of a relationship.
05:04:27.380
If a girlfriend of yours came to you and said, I'm dating this guy, things are otherwise pretty good, but, uh, I want to have sex, and he's not giving me sex, would, and she was contemplating breaking up with him, would you?
05:04:49.120
You should be, uh, at least having a conversation, mention it, and if you were able to work through it and try to.
05:04:56.240
What, what does working through it look like, though, when one person, whether man or woman, wants to have a higher frequency of sex in a relationship and the other doesn't?
05:05:06.180
Well, finding a compromise, um, maybe perhaps the person is working so much and they don't have time to just be home and having sex all the time.
05:05:14.820
And maybe the other one is not, you know, they're stay at home or, you know.
05:05:17.540
If, if a guy, uh, was dating a woman and he stopped paying for dates, would that, and she wanted him to pay for dates, would that be sufficient justification for her to dump him?
05:05:30.240
If that's her top three and she doesn't like it, then that's her.
05:05:39.140
Well, but so you indicated it was wrong for a man to dump his girlfriend if she regularly turns him down for sex.
05:05:46.580
Let's say it's a dead bedroom and they're not having sex at all.
05:05:53.040
He wants to keep having sex, but she's just not, she's not about it.
05:05:59.900
I would say especially even for marriage, um, you're supposed to really work through things.
05:06:05.420
It's till death do us a part and to just really break something without working through it and trying to find a compromise or middle ground.
05:06:14.120
Or maybe there's a reason why they're depressed.
05:06:16.320
They're not really focused in, uh, in their sexual activity.
05:06:21.440
Then it's not just surface level black and white.
05:06:27.680
Uh, but what if those problems are attempted to have been worked through and she still just doesn't want to have sex?
05:06:39.380
That would indicate that I would just end the relationship then.
05:06:43.500
But you would say, you would say it would be wrong to end the relationship for that reason.
05:06:47.680
I think I came from the perspective of, like, I've been in, um, relationships before where I felt pressured to engage in sexual activity and I just didn't feel comfortable.
05:06:57.580
And that was enough for them to be like, you know, this is not going to go anywhere.
05:07:01.180
And I felt pressured to give that to them to keep them around.
05:07:07.700
I think at the end of the day, like, a woman should be able to say no when she doesn't want to.
05:07:11.580
And there's so much more to a relationship than just feeling ultimately drawn to sex.
05:07:17.600
Yeah, I agree with you that a woman should say no and that should be 100% respected.
05:07:23.960
But I don't think I would fault the man who entered into this relationship with the expectation that it would be a component of the relationship would be that it would be a sexual relationship.
05:07:37.600
I don't think there's anything wrong with him ending the relationship for solely that reason.
05:07:45.720
You mentioned, let's say it's a dead, dead bed.
05:07:49.820
Did this happen since the start or did it just happen towards the end?
05:07:55.420
So it's maybe the sex life was better, then it became worse, and then it became non-existent.
05:08:00.740
So to me, it sounds like they got into a relationship, they were sexually compatible.
05:08:05.840
Now something is happening within their relationship, within themselves or the relationship that's causing this to happen.
05:08:11.720
What if the guy's not doing anything and it's just on her?
05:08:18.460
She just doesn't like, she's not into sex anymore.
05:08:25.060
Is that like a common occurrence for a person that's sexually active at the beginning to just suddenly be like, no?
05:08:34.780
I think it's actually reported pretty frequently.
05:08:39.760
Maybe there's a scenario in a case, but that's like an exception, I would say.
05:08:47.720
You could be going through a financial instability, a job loss, a death of a family.
05:08:52.360
And like you, you're not thinking about sex all the time.
05:08:57.340
I mean, I'm not like if, for example, like your girlfriend is sick, like let her recover.
05:09:04.060
Like, you don't need to be pressing for, you know, I think you can give somebody grace in moments of even if you're horny, like, okay, she's like feeling really terrible.
05:09:13.620
I, you know, we don't need to have sex right now.
05:09:17.680
But if it's like, if we're looking at a consistent pattern where she's otherwise okay, but she's not having sex as frequently as he would like, I don't see what would actually be wrong with him breaking up with his girlfriend.
05:09:37.620
If they are working, they talked about it, try to work through it, and it didn't work out, then it makes sense to break it off.
05:09:44.720
If it's just, there was no conversation and it just abruptly ended things, I don't think that's fair.
05:09:52.060
It would basically be like, it depends on why she's withholding sex, right?
05:09:55.800
So if it's like to spite him, I think that that's a pretty good reason to end your relationship.
05:10:01.880
If she just had, you know, vaginal birth and she's in a fair bit of pain and needs time to heal, maybe even a fair bit of time.
05:10:09.960
I think good partners are like patient for that.
05:10:11.840
So it just, it really depends on like what her reason is and what level of steps she's taken to like rectify that issue so that they can come back.
05:10:19.940
Because partners need to have sex with each other.
05:10:24.500
What is, I mean, this, maybe this is a bit of a dicey conversation.
05:10:34.260
The husband, the wife's doesn't want to have sex anymore.
05:10:45.440
No, I mean, I think that's the case, generally speaking, that Christians have a pretty good sex life.
05:10:54.020
And if that were to occur and it was a problem, that's something that could be talked about independently with a priest.
05:11:04.020
But then there's other aspects, like if someone's like sick, you mentioned, like, let's say it's a terminal illness.
05:11:14.620
I'm actually not sure what the pathway would be for expectation of sex, given that the person's not temporarily ill.
05:11:22.820
Like, does it, does it suddenly bring into question, like, do you have sick sex?
05:11:29.900
Like, do you have, like, like, I don't know how that would work, honestly.
05:11:32.800
I don't know the answer to that question for every single situation, Jay.
05:11:37.040
I mean, there's the notion of the marital debt, which is the idea that in the marital relationship, both parties are expected to sacrifice and engage in things that the other party might not necessarily want.
05:11:50.140
And that's X, that's expected when you go into the marital relationship.
05:11:54.500
So there's going to be times when that happens with both partners.
05:11:57.360
But I think that it's irrational, it's unreasonable to have the expectation that people should be always having sex, even in situations where it's, like, damaging or something like that.
05:12:13.780
Next thing, a woman's past should not matter to which Sophia, you agree, and then Kelly, you agree.
05:12:22.840
I'm pretty sure I'm just genuinely, genuinely curious because I don't know the Eastern Orthodox answer to this.
05:12:27.340
Do you guys believe that, like, spousal SA can exist?
05:12:31.320
Like, can a wife for, like, and assuming it's not medical, right?
05:12:35.940
Can a wife say no to sex and then the man still have sex with her anyways?
05:12:41.440
Like, is that legitimate or would that be viewed as bad?
05:12:43.520
I actually, I'm genuinely, I don't know the answer to that.
05:12:47.520
And the expectation is that the reasons are rational, that there's good foundation for that.
05:12:53.280
What if she's just like, I'm really not feeling it?
05:12:55.960
If she persists in that, that can become a case for there no longer being a marriage, for dissolving the marriage.
05:13:02.860
But he wouldn't be allowed to, like, have sex with her anyways, despite what she said.
05:13:19.400
Like, you just put women, but I think, like, women and men's past should not matter.
05:13:44.860
I mean, if we're talking about kids, like, obviously the kids are going to be a part of the picture.
05:13:50.460
Like, I'm just talking about, like, body counts.
05:13:54.740
Like, things you might have done that you wouldn't do now.
05:13:58.160
How do you, how would you determine that that doesn't have a consequence on you, let alone someone else?
05:14:04.120
You wouldn't, but I wouldn't judge somebody based on what they've done in the past.
05:14:16.240
And then, your answer, why a woman's passion not matter?
05:14:25.640
If you're focusing, obviously, no, I think you should definitely take into account, like, if it's a huge mistake they did.
05:14:32.120
But I don't think, if they're working through it and they're trying to change, what's there to keep bringing it up?
05:14:47.980
But when it comes to body count, to you, Sophia, would you date a guy who previously had sex with men?
05:15:05.180
There wouldn't be some component of a man who just had, I'm not going to say it, but just had carnal knowledge of a man a week before meeting you.
05:15:23.980
That would be that they're bi and they chose to be with a man.
05:15:27.440
And now, a week later, they're choosing to be with a woman.
05:15:30.100
You wouldn't make any, like, so you would date a guy who has.
05:15:36.520
And then, Kelly, would you date, you're old school and traditional, would you date a guy who previously slept with a man?
05:15:46.200
So, I feel like the old school, traditional, like, it's being, like, labeled entirely for me.
05:15:54.600
But I would say, yes, I'm open-minded towards sexuality.
05:16:16.520
I just, the gay, to me, seems like they just only like men.
05:16:22.440
Would you, past doesn't matter, would you date a guy who cheated?
05:16:33.140
Like, would you prefer to date a guy who has no history of infidelity or a guy who has cheating on every single girlfriend he's been with?
05:16:46.080
Yeah, no, I can agree with, like, the cheater thing and all of that.
05:16:51.800
I guess when I'm looking and answering that question, I'm not thinking that deeply into it.
05:16:56.500
I was, like, thinking about the rest of your questions.
05:16:59.880
But just to be clear, you guys would date a guy who gets fucked in the ass.
05:17:30.000
It's, like, some type of sodomy or mutual masturbation.
05:17:35.260
If I reach orgasm from banging a refrigerator, is it sex?
05:17:39.060
If you want to be pure and stay a virgin, just fuck in the ass.
05:17:42.360
If I've been sexual activity, then you're safe.
05:17:52.900
We're talking about intercourse, what's considered sex between two people.
05:17:59.360
The definition, you guys run with the definition, and then soften what it actually is, and then
05:18:04.300
it's a way of basically, you're basically making it ambiguous.
05:18:09.120
Like, you're making it like, oh, it's just this thing that they do.
05:18:11.940
For instance, Kyla, are you, like, in favor of homosexuality?
05:18:18.680
Well, because you say you're a Christian, right?
05:18:21.040
Do I think it's fine for other people to choose to be gay?
05:18:23.420
Yeah, do you think a marriage between two dudes can be consummated with sodomy?
05:18:33.460
Uh, like, at a spiritual level, I'm not sure if that would be viewed, like, legitimate.
05:18:37.160
I'm not sure my theology on that specifically right now.
05:18:40.240
Uh, because I'm not sure if I'm convinced that at a Christian level that, like, two men
05:18:46.200
Why wouldn't you know that if you call yourself a Christian?
05:18:49.120
Uh, if you want to get into, like, the theology of it, there's, like, an important thing of
05:18:52.960
understanding, like, what the key words were when they're talking about it and what they
05:18:58.660
I don't want to get into a Greek, like, Greek apologetics.
05:19:02.920
But, uh, so going to, uh, Kelly, going to Sophia, if past doesn't matter, we're speaking about
05:19:09.380
body count, uh, like, should men not care about body count, basically?
05:19:20.200
Are we really, like, are we asking for people's body counts, like, when we're dating them?
05:19:24.780
Like, are you going on a date and being, like, what's your body count before I...
05:19:30.360
First, not even, on the dating app, first message.
05:19:39.280
So, if past doesn't matter, uh, what's your body count?
05:20:06.620
It's, uh, maybe, like, half of Norway, you know?
05:20:09.300
Um, so, do you want to give us the real answer, though?
05:20:13.360
Um, I don't think past not mattering should be the reason that she outs herself to the
05:20:41.640
Do you want to do a poll and see if all the women will actually do that?
05:20:47.860
I think I heard Sophia say that she wouldn't do it.
05:20:51.280
I feel like, I don't know, that might have your...
05:21:00.460
I didn't consent for you to wear that necklace today.
05:21:22.420
You don't have to get the exact number, but it's 10 to 20, something like that?
05:21:55.620
But going into it, that was the one question I didn't want to answer.
05:22:04.000
I'll tell them, but I just don't know if I want to...
05:22:09.860
I'm just gonna stick with the girlies at this point.
05:22:17.960
So, I am voluntarily celibate, so I've been with like 10 to 15 max.
05:22:29.820
I think it's progress that this show has progressively produced women who have acquired some level of
05:22:35.680
maybe shame or maybe they don't want people to...
05:22:38.440
Maybe it's the case that it actually does matter that maybe there's a reason you don't
05:22:43.560
want people to know that it's not just personal.
05:22:46.720
I understand that aspect, but there is something about it that kind of has a sense of a devaluing
05:22:52.880
for yourself, and I think this still applies to men.
05:22:57.220
It's not in the same way, but I think it's a good thing for women to stop celebrating their
05:23:03.060
body count or stop even feeling like they should share it.
05:23:08.620
If I asked you off show later, would you tell me what your body count is?
05:23:15.960
I just genuinely think it's none of anyone's business.
05:23:19.080
Like I said past shouldn't matter, which means the numbers shouldn't matter.
05:23:23.020
Would you share with me your body count privately off afterwards?
05:23:30.320
So I don't know if it's shame that's doing this necessarily, right?
05:23:34.940
Mine isn't insanely high, but I would say it a hundred percent comes from a place of shame.
05:23:39.620
I mean, for me, with my religious beliefs, I think anything outside of marriage is shameful.
05:23:46.260
When you say you're religious, are you waiting until marriage?
05:23:52.040
After my whole, the whole celibacy thing with the Muslim guy, I'm kind of like, well, maybe
05:24:04.360
If you were asked on a date privately, not on this podcast, if a guy genuinely asked you
05:24:09.080
because he wanted to know what your body count is, would you then answer, give the answer?
05:24:18.180
If you were on a date with a guy, you're not on a podcast, he's just asking you privately,
05:24:39.880
I mean, I guess you could like try to suss it out by being like, well, what would be too
05:24:45.120
Perfect guy, but in order for this courtship to progress, he wants to know, and he's going
05:24:53.080
Would you tell the perfect guy your body count?
05:24:56.520
It could be like, he's like, that's acceptable or it's not acceptable.
05:25:04.280
So you'd lose out on the perfect guy and he might be totally fine with your body count,
05:25:10.660
but you don't know until after you tell it to him.
05:25:12.880
You lose out on the perfect guy because you wouldn't want to reveal how many sexual partners.
05:25:18.540
Like, why is he forcing me to tell him something?
05:25:25.360
Also, if it didn't matter, you would actually say it.
05:25:27.860
For instance, like, does it matter what type of like meals you like necessarily?
05:25:41.220
I'm giving you an example of something that doesn't actually matter.
05:25:46.620
High value traditional men don't ask those types of questions from the jump.
05:25:50.480
Well, no, I wouldn't want to actually, I wouldn't want to ask that.
05:25:55.500
Actually, I think a high value traditional guy, this would be a perfectly acceptable metric
05:25:59.960
by which he could make a determination as to whether he'd want to date.
05:26:05.200
I would grant you not off the jump, but eventually they're going to.
05:26:10.140
How would that be relevant to the argument at hand?
05:26:12.160
It's relevant because you're saying that this is a good metric, but if you're single,
05:26:16.300
I'm saying like, I'm not going to go to some homeless person for a class in real estate.
05:26:31.200
Are you fine with other women getting abortions?
05:26:38.460
I'm telling you that is my answer and it's not changing.
05:26:43.720
Do you, if, if there was a vote that the government, that it was a vote to the populace, the entire
05:26:53.540
Do you say yes, abortion legal or no ban abortion?
05:26:58.880
So you're pro-choice, but you have that opinion on it, right?
05:27:05.020
Is there any position that you have, like, is there any topic that you have any position
05:27:11.700
I think, um, gay people should be allowed to marry.
05:27:15.520
I think, I think sex between, by saying that, for example, to go back, um, saying that sex
05:27:23.000
between two men, for example, isn't actually sex.
05:27:25.580
You're basically saying is rape, is rape, is if a man rapes, no, sorry, sorry, no, that's
05:27:32.060
If, if a man essay is another man, I'll stick it to the specific topic we're having though.
05:27:36.340
So, uh, do you have any political leanings whatsoever?
05:27:42.400
What do you think about like the war in Ukraine?
05:27:45.920
I'm truthfully not informed on the war in Ukraine.
05:27:48.940
Um, it depends if it's an objective evil, like the Nazis in World War II.
05:27:56.920
She's given multiple opinions throughout this entire conversation.
05:28:01.100
No, you can have the opinion that she wants to like basically abstain from an opinion on
05:28:06.740
It's a, it's a performative contradiction that he just, yeah, it is to vote on something
05:28:10.300
is to say it is your business because you're participating in a way that it makes it your
05:28:14.760
She would probably prefer it to be between the doctor and the woman, but she's not really
05:28:18.480
If it wasn't, if it really wasn't any of your business, you actually wouldn't vote at all on it.
05:28:29.740
No, it's between, it's between a woman and her doctor.
05:28:54.060
I'm just trying to say that like, if somebody has an abortion, they shouldn't have to tell
05:29:01.500
Look, the point I was trying to make, the point I was trying to get at is you're trying to
05:29:05.060
say, well, Brian, uh, are you, are you currently in a relationship?
05:29:19.160
So why are you allowed to make a determination on whether abortion should be legal or not,
05:29:26.600
In that same way, that was a rhetorical question.
05:29:29.060
In that same way, my relationship, my, my personal relationship status would have no bearing
05:29:35.360
on my ability to make a determination as to like, what would be, uh, perhaps good conduct
05:29:43.860
No traditional woman will ever wear her body count on her sleeve.
05:29:49.480
I'm saying that you guys seem to like, you guys want traditional women.
05:29:52.420
No traditional woman will ever tell you her body count on the first date.
05:29:56.280
That's maybe like third or fifth date, but the first date, you're tripping.
05:29:59.540
If we take it to the ultimate, I mean, a traditional woman would be a virgin.
05:30:05.020
Like if we, if we look at the ultimate manifestation of like a traditional woman, she would be a
05:30:12.020
Well, there's lots of traditional women that fuck up according to their own worldview,
05:30:15.380
I think you can still be a traditional woman and not be a virgin, but this idea that the
05:30:20.300
traditional woman would not share her body count is dubious.
05:30:27.060
Because it's, why should somebody have to say that on the first date?
05:30:45.020
If you're messaging or something, you can ask that before.
05:30:50.580
That way I can unmatch you quick as fuck the moment you ask that.
05:30:53.740
If, if you were a woman who also, who also was like, yeah, I think body count matters.
05:30:59.400
I don't think most women are going to have an issue with that question being asked.
05:31:05.820
They have an issue with it because it's a reflection.
05:31:22.260
If, if it was a thousand or if it was zero, why would it matter?
05:31:27.540
No, I'm saying, why would it matter as it pertains to my argument?
05:31:41.860
Oh, so why are you allowed to have an opinion on murder if you haven't murdered somebody?
05:31:46.760
Look, if, if body count, look, it's really simple.
05:31:48.820
If body count didn't matter and someone, uh, you're, you're texting someone for a potential
05:31:53.640
date and they also thought it didn't matter, but their position was because it doesn't
05:32:02.240
Well, she already conceded that you could ask it by third or fifth date.
05:32:05.300
No, but she said, I would, I would unmatch, right?
05:32:09.060
If it doesn't, within like the first two hours of talking to somebody, they ask your
05:32:18.680
So really you've, you've, you'd like to, you'd like to, you'd like to pop it.
05:32:23.620
Number one, you said that I'm the exception because I'm the debater.
05:32:28.960
You also, both of you have been bandying back and forth together when you get stuck on a
05:32:33.480
So it's completely reasonable that I can answer and help her out with her answers when she's
05:32:38.160
It sounds like you're, it sounds like you're saying on the, like early on, it's very aggressive,
05:32:46.880
But if it doesn't matter, like, it's almost like, how would it be different than saying,
05:32:53.400
um, you know, what, what's your favorite color?
05:32:56.800
I can say that later on, as you get to know the person, it can't, it should be a conversation
05:33:03.560
But on the very first date or even before that, absolutely not.
05:33:08.720
But you're, you are agreeing that it does matter because it actually warrants a type of conversation.
05:33:14.500
When I say does matter, I don't mean it does matter as in that's a make or break.
05:33:19.540
I'm saying it does matter as in if that truly is something you care about, as I get to know
05:33:24.220
you, I'm open to sitting down, having a knee to knee conversation and talking to you about
05:33:33.620
So why would a conversation, which would tend to move a person away from wanting to date
05:33:39.520
somebody who engaged in hookup culture, this would be a form of social shaming.
05:33:44.500
Why, why would it be view if you were like, oh yes, hookup culture, bad promiscuity, bad.
05:33:49.180
Why would it be bad for a guy who's essentially saying, I don't want to date a woman who engaged
05:33:55.480
in hookup culture or who is, or was promiscuous?
05:33:59.100
You're basically something's saying something's bad, but you're saying there shouldn't be any
05:34:03.280
Why shouldn't there be any consequences if to something that's bad?
05:34:11.700
And as Brian explained, if the consequence of something bad is that men want to know if
05:34:19.860
To make their, their, they're basically going to make a choice and maybe women will make the
05:34:25.540
And if it is in fact bad, if we agree hookup culture is trash, um, bad things would have
05:34:32.340
But how would you even, that, that may, that basically means we're, we're totally warranted
05:34:39.600
If you're participating in something bad, it seems reasonable.
05:34:42.240
And if I can piggyback off of what Jim Bob's, unless you wanted to give her a response to
05:34:49.300
Uh, so if to piggyback off this, actually you, the, the framing I would give is as follows
05:34:55.560
a guy who's interested in asking you these sort of screening questions, what's your body
05:35:01.580
count or other screening questions as it relates to your past means that he's generally angling
05:35:07.800
for long-term relationship or he's not, don't take this word the wrong way.
05:35:12.540
He's, well, I'll just say he's marked you as a potential long-term prospect.
05:35:17.260
So this should actually perhaps even be viewed.
05:35:19.860
My framing of it would be, this is actually a flattering question because a guy who just
05:35:24.400
wants to fuck you doesn't really probably doesn't care what your body count is, but
05:35:28.300
the guy who's angling for long-term relationship probably is a little more invested in your past
05:35:33.360
If he's inquiring as to your past, he's probably a little more invested in long-term relationship
05:35:39.840
and he's maybe more, uh, long-term he's, he has a, sorry, I'm no, it's okay.
05:35:45.800
So I'm kind of fumbling over my words a little bit, but he's more interested in the long-term
05:35:50.900
So you can be offended by it, but I think the actual framing I would provide here is he's
05:35:58.540
If he's asking about your body count, I disagree.
05:36:01.120
And I would still unmatch him, even though he might be a higher value man by his concerns.
05:36:08.300
So I think, I think having a guy who's willing to potentially lose a woman by having these
05:36:14.660
sorts of, uh, important, at least in his view, important conversations.
05:36:20.020
I actually think that that's high value conduct in and of itself.
05:36:25.580
A guy who's just like, I really don't want to lose her.
05:36:28.460
I'm not going to ask her any questions that might offend her, or I'm not going to make
05:36:32.160
any, uh, you know, I'm not going to state anything that might offend her at risk of losing
05:36:36.800
Even though this is, this thing is something that I want in a relationship, or this thing
05:36:44.320
Uh, I think that that would, that would be high value behavior insofar as, hmm, I'm willing
05:36:49.420
to lose the girl because this is, this is a boundary and a preference and a standard that
05:36:54.500
I want in a woman, and if she doesn't meet it, then I don't want her.
05:36:58.160
But I'm willing, even if I otherwise would like the girl, but her refusal to answer the
05:37:03.060
question would then preclude her from my, uh, romantic pursuit.
05:37:08.360
He's willing to pass up on a woman under these circumstances.
05:37:13.560
A guy who's pressed for pussy and who's willing to sacrifice on his wants and desires in a relationship.
05:37:21.080
Also, I don't like the high value, low value metric, like, uh, terminology.
05:37:25.580
It's kind of cringe, but just for the sake of the convo, I'll use it.
05:37:30.220
Um, saying that, oh, you don't want to answer, um, body count that precludes you from being
05:37:43.600
Like, do you think that, like, what if he had a background, like, addicted to gambling
05:37:56.240
Is, is he actively, like, does he acknowledge this is a problem and I'm in, like, doing something
05:38:07.480
Is he obligated to tell you if he had a gambling problem and by when?
05:38:13.600
Probably when he starts, like, when we start mingling our money together, sure, that's
05:38:19.460
when I have a problem with it, is, like, when our money starts becoming, like, his money
05:38:23.040
So let me ask you, is it fair for you to match up with a guy and then you say, I'm sorry,
05:38:28.960
this is out of nowhere, but, uh, do you have a gambling problem out of nowhere?
05:38:34.800
Would it be fair for him to answer yes or no at that point?
05:38:45.540
Has he given me a reason to suspect that he has a gambling?
05:38:48.220
No, no, you just, no, no, you just kind of know for some reason you have in the back
05:38:51.620
of your mind as a, as a, one of the things that you want to avoid.
05:38:56.300
Like, you're just like, I want to know if you have a gambling problem.
05:39:01.880
Is he, like, he's going to be, you know, you're putting him on the spot, right?
05:39:05.080
But we're using this example because if you just swap the gambling, uh, and, and reverse
05:39:10.900
it, and a man is asking essentially a very similar question, actually, are you, do you
05:39:19.700
So, so it's like, do you have a gambling problem with your vagina is what he's asking,
05:39:25.220
And so if it's fair to ask the man, if he has some sort of background problem, um, that
05:39:30.780
has consequences, he, they should be able to ask the same thing back.
05:39:43.080
Somebody sent in, uh, somebody sent this into me to perhaps help me, uh, this will help me
05:39:49.820
But so basically when it comes to this, like these guys not asking you questions to potentially
05:39:55.220
screen you out, essentially women are just, and I'm reading from his, from his message
05:40:03.700
Basically women are just really used to dealing with a thirsty white night simp men.
05:40:08.460
They're going to placate, placate you for even the chance of a bread, bread crumb of pussy.
05:40:14.980
If they actually challenge you on anything or take a position you disagree with that reduces
05:40:21.040
Like if you're some liberal chick and start talking about how you want open borders or want
05:40:24.940
to give 10 year olds puberty, puberty blockers or whatever retarded worldviews you have.
05:40:29.800
If a guy wants to sleep with you, he's not going to challenge you on that.
05:40:35.060
They want to sleep with you and don't want to upset your worldview at the risk of losing
05:40:40.540
And then there's just social ramifications for men who communicate these things.
05:40:44.300
Um, so basically a guy who, it just goes back to my point of if the guy's actually willing
05:40:50.520
to ask you a question that might offend you, it would point towards him being willing to
05:40:54.880
lose you, which I think is probably would be considered.
05:40:58.940
I hate this fucking term high value, but it's a man with options, man.
05:41:06.020
It shows that he's stable in his convictions and his worldview and his morals and his ethics,
05:41:10.420
which is, you know, coincidentally what women end up looking for once they figure out they
05:41:15.920
want to settle down because, you know, they're reaching that age and they realize that, you
05:41:19.760
know, their life's not going to actually turn out the way they thought it was when they
05:41:23.040
We have some chats coming through, truly, truly, truly, he is risen, donated $69, W ortho
05:41:30.680
bros in the chat, Christos and SD, orthodox cross emoji, orthodox cross emoji, hashtag fallacy.
05:41:57.780
She is the female version of the blue-haired meth jaw to McGregor.
05:42:02.680
He's, like, one of the best debaters in the world.
05:42:05.280
So, if you're comparing me to him, that's fine.
05:42:08.440
Is that objectively true that he's the best debater or subjectively?
05:42:12.460
Yeah, he's definitely, like, I would say most people agree he's, like, one of the best
05:42:19.460
Jim Bob, I wish you would press them more on why people's desires matter.
05:42:24.160
Kylo was really shocked yesterday at the idea someone could oppose individualism.
05:42:37.980
But, yeah, your guys' fans are a lot like you guys.
05:42:40.880
I think in Twitter day, I had so many guys just be like, you did this fallacy and this
05:42:47.540
And I was like, these motherfuckers don't know what any of these words mean.
05:42:55.040
Can you tell me a book that you've read on human sexuality that's scientific and any nature?
05:42:59.760
Here, I'm going to move it on just for the sake of time.
05:43:05.780
We're going to do, here, we're going to do these.
05:43:07.680
What would you want the minimum yearly income to be for your future husband?
05:43:11.080
Ideally, maybe $100,000, but I don't have a specific, like, it's not money.
05:43:25.140
I mean, for most of our relationship, he's made, like, pretty low money, but zero for
05:43:33.120
I think for now, he's going to be making about $4,000 a month for this new job.
05:43:36.500
Now that our visa is through, he can get a job again.
05:43:38.720
And has that presented, like, any issues in your relationship, or otherwise pretty good?
05:43:42.960
No, we're pretty, like, good at talking things through.
05:43:56.420
Like, I don't really think about that, if you want me to be honest.
05:43:58.800
So you would date a man or a woman who, like, worked at McDonald's?
05:44:13.180
My fiance, she makes a lot of money at the job she does now.
05:44:22.960
Oh, you don't need to give, like, the company she works for.
05:44:53.200
Uh, but do you have, like, a, while you're working on the singing stuff, do you have a
05:45:00.740
So, along with performances and studio writing, I do background vocals for myself, other artists.
05:45:08.600
I do teaching, piano, guitar, voice lessons, remote, in person, or, um, then what else?
05:45:22.300
So, like, 60,000 a year, I think that works out too.
05:45:26.700
Uh, so you would want a guy who makes $60,000 a year or more.
05:45:32.540
And then you say, uh, and then you said when you, when you end up making.
05:45:36.460
So, you know, when, uh, when you hit it big, how much you, how much do you think you'll
05:45:47.860
What do you think about, sorry, I just wanted to, uh, what do you think about, like, AI music
05:45:54.140
Um, I've been asked about that frequently, actually, recently.
05:46:10.480
Um, well, they're coming for your job sooner, Jim Bob, than the music.
05:46:20.380
Um, although they're also going for music, uh, well, they do, but, uh, wait, so, okay.
05:46:27.480
Um, how tall are you and what's the minimum height of a man you would date, starting with
05:46:32.200
Um, 5'2", and I would date someone that's the same height as me.
05:46:50.580
At least one inch taller than you, and you're 5'8".
05:46:59.060
Would you rather cross paths with a random man or a random bear on a hike?
05:47:21.900
He could probably help me get to where I'm going.
05:47:35.460
So, to those of you who, I think it was you picked bear, and then you picked bear.
05:47:41.060
Um, because a guy can be more thought out about what he'd want to do to you.
05:47:46.180
A bear is not going to torture you for hours, you know.
05:47:51.320
But essentially, you're saying the man could essay you.
05:47:58.980
Because I've had an experience that would make me not choose the man.
05:48:04.520
And I've had, like, comments on my TikToks and stuff that would, that made me deeply scared of going into the forest by myself.
05:48:12.080
Yeah, but, like, bears don't have smartphones, so they can't really comment.
05:48:27.940
Would you rather be locked in a cage with a random man or a random bear?
05:48:38.060
Honestly, from my experience, I'd rather not, I don't, I don't want to say it, but I'd rather not be that here anymore.
05:48:47.300
than deal with what the man could do to me in the cage.
05:48:54.700
Do you think that, like, most men, though, because this is, like, kind of a, a, part of the issue is that, like, men do really bad violent stuff, right?
05:49:02.200
But the issue is that, like, A, when we hike, we pass random men on the trail all the time.
05:49:08.000
Like, most men are not seeking to do violence to women.
05:49:10.540
There's a small predisposition of men that, to be fair, most men also hate that do violence to women.
05:49:16.300
But I think most men are good, and when, like, if I was locked in a cage with a man, I'd be like, God, I hope he's not super awkward so we can have, like, at least interesting conversation.
05:49:24.880
I used the elevator situation, and someone went ahead and sent me, I'll probably just butcher the stats, but it was astronomically insane, how many elevator rides.
05:49:38.980
No, no, no, that would, that would occur daily, uh, between a man and a woman, alone in an elevator.
05:49:45.740
And so that's, like, it's an insane amount of, of rides, and then you, you measure it against the reported amount of, uh, of attacks or essays or whatever it is.
05:49:57.840
So, but that's why it's, like, where, where this is taking place suddenly changes everything, right?
05:50:04.520
Because if you're in a bear, you're in an elevator with a bear, like, it's, it's pretty high likely that the wrong move, you're done, whereas the amount of times you're in an elevator with a man, it's, like, it's not like the wrong move, wrong, one wrong move and you're done.
05:50:18.400
It's, like, you're probably just going to make it to your floor, so.
05:50:25.040
Did you want to continue with, I agree with everything you're, uh, saying on the whole bear thing.
05:50:30.760
Oh, I mean, there's a really interesting, do you know how this, this talking point came around?
05:50:35.120
So, it was actually a red pill, um, like, tech talker guy who would do street interviews.
05:50:41.060
Yeah, so he was interviewing a bunch of women, and he actually, most women answered a man, right?
05:50:47.860
The issue is that when he clipped it together, he only selected the women that said a bear.
05:50:51.540
And so then what happened is that, like, a lot of feminists felt the need to defend the girlies by being like, no, it's justified for the bear, even though it's like, no, it's not.
05:51:04.660
Are you saying that women are easily influenced by propaganda?
05:51:07.600
I think everyone is easily influenced by propaganda.
05:51:09.040
What about more so, you think more so than men?
05:51:11.240
Uh, the amount of men that are, like, watch you guys, no.
05:51:17.720
No, men can be propagandized, too, just as well as women.
05:51:22.120
I said, who do you think is more vulnerable to propaganda, women or men?
05:51:26.040
I genuinely don't think that there's an answer to this, because the type of propaganda that sells to women is not the type of propaganda that would sell to men.
05:51:32.400
That's, the content is irrelevant to whether or not one is more influenced.
05:51:35.920
I'm saying it's equal, it's just different things will be more effective with each party.
05:51:49.360
When the waitress says, would you like, um, do you think, do you like cream in your, your coffee or not cream?
05:51:56.920
Do you go into a big diatribe about the distinction between cream and not cream?
05:52:07.620
And the second answer to what you're actually asking here is that the world is really fucking complicated.
05:52:14.920
Is partial reserve banking simple or complicated?
05:52:21.240
Partial reserve banking is another thing that happens.
05:52:26.740
No, but a lot of the topics that we end up talking about in social culture is complicated.
05:52:35.920
What's the difference between fractional reserve and partial reserve?
05:52:49.200
Have you read any books on the empiricism of sexuality and bimodality?
05:52:53.040
What's the difference between fractional reserve and partial reserve?
05:52:58.020
How about you say stuff and you don't know what it is?
05:53:01.400
Because I asked him like 10, like 30 minutes ago.
05:53:10.100
The irony of women choosing the bear and then allowing men to participate in women's sports
05:53:14.940
and acting as if strength isn't an issue is wild AF.
05:53:28.580
If a white person was presented this scenario, but we changed it a little bit, and it was
05:53:36.040
instead of a man, would you rather come across a bear or a black person on a hike and the
05:53:43.580
person picks bear, the white person picks bear, instead of the black person, would that be
05:53:58.000
You're asking me if choosing a specific color versus a bear is going to be racist.
05:54:06.000
Well, I don't think, for example, it would be...
05:54:08.180
For example, I don't think it would be racist for me to ask the following question.
05:54:12.080
If you have a deep-seated hatred of a minority group and then you inflict a crime on that
05:54:18.000
minority group because they belong to that minority group, I don't think that would make
05:54:34.460
No, because I'd still choose the bear because I said bear versus man.
05:54:44.300
Okay, well, then I guess I'll just ask you the question.
05:54:47.400
Would you rather come across a black person in the woods on a hike or a bear?
05:55:03.480
I'm not going to change my answer because you made it into a certain situation.
05:55:10.860
Is it because the bear would give you a black eye?
05:55:31.220
So, in the black person one, though, it could be a woman or a man, but they're black.
05:55:44.440
I'm going to choose bear if it's just a random person and I don't know.
05:55:59.940
Let's say you choose bear and it spawns in front of you and it becomes aggressive with you,
05:56:14.220
Do you spawn another bear or do you spawn a man?
05:56:25.340
Whoa, why'd Brian let a KKK member on the show?
05:56:33.160
Do you see what I meant by saying the question was pretty racist?
05:56:39.380
This is actually a really good example of how men can be propagandized too well.
05:56:42.240
Because if anyone watching this actually thought that that was a reasonable dunk of you,
05:56:56.100
Because the black person could be a man, so she's going to pick a bear still.
05:56:59.580
Well, for that reason, I guess it's less of a dunk.
05:57:16.540
In this scenario, if it would be racist to pick a bear over a black person,
05:57:21.400
then it so too must also be sexist to pick a bear over a man.
05:57:27.400
And you even acknowledged that picking the bear over a man is like kind of a shitty answer.
05:57:33.560
But it's not racist because she's like, well, it's specifically black people that I'm afraid
05:57:37.840
It's because she's consistently not picking men, whether you put a different race or creed
05:57:42.600
That's what I'm trying to say is I never changed my answer when you changed the race.
05:57:49.620
But optically, despite her reasoning for it, it's optically bad to pick bear over a black
05:57:55.760
But that's just because you like, again, you like loaded the question.
05:58:05.700
It makes it impossible to answer without you getting...
05:58:08.060
I mean, my family's interracial, so that doesn't really apply.
05:58:10.100
But do you think you'd be racist for somebody to pick bear over a black person?
05:58:14.500
Is there like a statistic on if I would get a guy or if I would get a woman?
05:58:22.520
I guess you have better chances choosing the black person by, you know, it makes you...
05:58:28.680
But what if a white person's like, nah, I pick the bear.
05:58:36.500
Would that be racist if they do make that selection?
05:58:39.560
If they didn't consider that option of like, you know, you could get a woman, you know,
05:58:47.380
They wouldn't be racist, but they would just be sexist.
05:58:50.120
But what if it's like, again, if they do pick the bear and they're like, I don't care
05:58:56.880
I just pick the bear over a black woman or a black man.
05:59:04.540
Like, you know, I say that like, because you're, I don't know.
05:59:09.460
I don't think that that's a very educational thing to say.
05:59:13.620
If you choose just the bear and not know any of the other context, then, you know, I don't
05:59:20.920
What's the question that you guys are asking me?
05:59:24.860
I'm just saying, if you pick bear, you're sexist.
05:59:30.140
And you have like some pretty shitty views on men.
05:59:40.860
To just answer the question without asking questions like that, you know, like what would
05:59:46.220
be the statistic of getting a woman 50-50, then you could make an educated guess, you
05:59:53.040
But why would you have chose the bear in the first place?
05:59:59.160
But statistically, you're more likely to survive.
06:00:01.760
I've seen, well, I know, because we hear stories of men who drag women out to the desert and
06:00:17.960
But the consequence is more dangerous with a bear, on average, than with a random guy.
06:00:26.040
We're talking, let's bring promiscuity into it.
06:00:28.520
Well, let me, 10 random dudes, how many do you think are psychopathic serial killers?
06:00:33.620
Would you date a woman that has been violated by a man like that?
06:00:42.880
I think it's reasonable for a guy to not want to date a woman who has certain baggage
06:00:46.420
or trauma from the past, but you want to answer his question?
06:00:50.000
Out of 10 random dudes, how many do you think, on average, would be a serial killer or psychopath?
06:01:05.460
But you said in your example, okay, but you said in your example that a guy would not
06:01:10.200
be preferable because he might torture grape, et cetera, in the case of the bear.
06:01:15.740
A man's imagination is much wilder than a bear.
06:01:19.680
But statistically, are you more likely to survive a random dude out of all the men who do you?
06:01:29.700
Like, you know, if I was tortured for 10 hours plus, what would I want to do?
06:01:36.400
Like, if you run across a man, is it likely that he's going to do the most awful thing that
06:01:40.920
Or is it likely that he'll just be like, yo, what's up?
06:01:46.340
Like, what's the most likely thing that a man would do?
06:01:54.800
Yeah, I mean, it would be better for your long-term survival to choose a guy.
06:02:04.960
I think it's really hard for you to touch on this topic when you haven't dealt with
06:02:21.360
But what would that have to do with the statistics of whether or not a bear is more likely than
06:02:27.600
I'm saying from what you were just saying, it, you're speaking from, like, someone who
06:02:35.000
So you're speaking from someone who, I, I spoke bear from what I've dealt with.
06:02:41.780
And from, that's, that was my answer because of what I've dealt with.
06:02:51.560
Well, but the point is that you're much more likely to survive on the basis of the objective
06:03:01.080
Is it 100% sure that nothing would happen to us or are we just going?
06:03:13.800
Like, you go out and about and maybe you, you go out at night, which there's a risk and
06:03:18.940
a safety concern if you're going out drinking at bars, for example.
06:03:25.260
But you move through the world in such a way that there's some risk involved.
06:03:29.880
I think just being a woman, there's always going to be a risk.
06:03:35.820
Well, it's good to know that one thing about the hypothetical is to know and admit that
06:03:42.760
Whether or not you're going to be assaulted or anything is different than whether it's
06:03:47.340
descriptively true that men can do things to you.
06:03:50.620
So, whereas it's always true for a bear, but to Jay's point, if your experience, if my
06:03:57.900
experience with a certain group of people was that I was, let's say, robbed multiple
06:04:06.180
times, I think what Brian is asking in another hypothetical is would it be racist based on
06:04:12.900
my experience with that group of people to choose something other than that group of people's
06:04:22.260
Just even if the stats were actually in opposition to my choice.
06:04:31.840
I mean, to Jim Bob's point here, it's just essentially, if it's racist, because I, here,
06:04:39.740
So, you guys have had bad experiences with men.
06:04:44.320
I don't doubt that, absolutely, there are men who are monsters, who commit heinous crimes,
06:04:56.700
But when you then say, okay, well, if somebody has had a bad experience with X group, in your
06:05:04.920
case, men, does this then justify you having sort of this baseline fear or hatred or contempt
06:05:15.300
of the entire group, similar to, for example, let's say a white person was beat up by a group
06:05:23.040
of black people, would this then give them justification for the rest of their life to
06:05:28.620
be continuously fearful of black people and have a bias against them and think negatively
06:05:40.340
And then also, just to your point, you were saying how Jay here, he, you were claiming
06:05:45.380
he didn't have this experience, but like, wouldn't this also then have to apply to somebody who's
06:05:53.180
So, oh, who are you to have an anti-SA opinion, but you yourself have not been SA'd?
06:06:01.320
No, I'm just saying he was speaking for us, saying that we shouldn't feel a type of way
06:06:06.840
or we should go at life a certain way when it's just, but just, but just because he himself
06:06:15.020
hasn't had that experience doesn't preclude him from coming to a determination as to like
06:06:22.160
a risk of a particular scenario or having an opinion on SA.
06:06:28.720
I didn't say he shouldn't have an opinion on SA, I was just saying that he shouldn't
06:06:34.560
have an opinion on how we both feel about our situation.
06:06:37.720
But I was making the point that for your own survival, wouldn't you want to choose the
06:06:42.660
more likely means of surviving a man versus a bear?
06:06:46.800
I can just say that I don't, I don't want to live if it happens to me again, but I don't
06:06:55.440
want to go through life again if it happens to me again.
06:07:12.320
The hypothetical gives you the option that's most likely to result in your survival.
06:07:20.320
It's just, you're, you're making the call based on likelihood of, of things not going
06:07:27.580
Whether I've been SA'd or not has nothing to do with whether you're more likely to survive
06:07:31.820
If we're comparing two aggressors, so if you're comparing a man to a bear, like wouldn't they
06:07:42.740
I mean, a bear can do a lot of aggressive, immediate harm.
06:07:46.440
A man can do harm, but we're talking about the likelihood, right?
06:07:53.540
I honestly look at this and I, and I think bear, in my experience, I grew up in the mountains
06:07:58.420
and so my experience of bears is actually that they run, so I don't, I don't actually
06:08:02.840
like the hypothetical because you can spook a bear pretty easily.
06:08:07.800
Of course, bears of color attack more than other bears, but that's actually true.
06:08:14.000
Actually, I think polar bears are the most aggressive technique.
06:08:16.100
No, no, and I'm talking about aggressive, like if you're in proximity, the most amount
06:08:23.860
I think polar bears are technically significantly more aggressive.
06:08:25.920
Yeah, they're more aggressive if you're nearby.
06:08:28.700
The point is that it shows the inability to think objectively and to think hypothetically
06:08:34.220
And so you would choose something that would be damaging to you on the basis of your own
06:08:40.780
I guess we're just fear-based at some point, you know.
06:09:03.120
Yeah, that's a creative or at least somewhat close to it.
06:09:06.300
There's some creativeness that comes with law enforcement, I guess.
06:09:28.460
Is it an assumption that the person you're with should be as creative as you?
06:09:37.680
I don't even know how valid these terms are, like type A and stuff.
06:09:42.280
But, like, more organized, stable, isn't really lofty about, like, dreams and art and all this stuff.
06:09:55.680
That seems like you're making it, like, sort of a necessity that he's, like, creative and, you know...
06:10:02.840
Police officers, to me, it just seems, like, out of pocket.
06:10:06.620
All my friends, people who I associate, even family members, none of them are police officers.
06:10:10.340
I just don't find, like, I would find any attraction towards them or anything in common.
06:10:16.440
I do understand that, like, opposites attract, so...
06:10:27.580
Like, I don't really think we're going to align.
06:10:31.880
By the way, guys, we are getting towards the tail end of the show here.
06:10:40.500
Streamlabs.com slash whatever if you want to get one in.
06:10:43.500
I'm going to let a few come in really quick, but then I do have a few more topics to touch on here.
06:10:54.340
I want to say, despite disagreeing with you ladies on a bunch of stuff,
06:10:58.420
I do appreciate the recognition that not all men are violent monsters.
06:11:02.620
Yeah, Kyla, you, you, I mean, you're pretty reasonable, I'd say.
06:11:09.840
So I was a little, I mean, but sometimes I'm surprised.
06:11:14.520
But, I mean, at least your position on the bear thing, you seem pretty reasonable on that one.
06:11:24.200
I think, you know, to give some level of, like, levity, I think when people, like, speak out of trauma,
06:11:28.740
it does lead to, like, misinformed evaluations.
06:11:31.020
The issue is that, like, I'm not super interested in, like, shitting on people for, like, their trauma response.
06:11:36.160
It's more like, how do we live in a more adaptive, healthy way?
06:11:45.120
The question is to show how stubborn and delusional we are.
06:11:51.360
I hate this question because you all fall for it because you want to be right and we look stupid.
06:11:59.740
We have Double Agent here coming in with another one.
06:12:11.280
Would you rather be alone with a bear in the woods or a mentally ill man pretending to be a woman in a restroom?
06:12:16.880
Before you guys answer that really quick, I want to do a shout-out to The Crucible.
06:12:23.160
Hey, Andrew, I don't know if you're watching or if it was somebody else streaming on your account,
06:12:35.020
The question was, would you rather be alone with a bear in the woods or a mentally ill man pretending to be a woman in the restroom?
06:12:41.260
To those of you who picked bear, which do you pick?
06:12:43.740
Bear in the woods or I guess it's a transgender woman?
06:13:07.140
No, I'm just saying they're just in a bathroom pretending to be a girl in a bathroom and then you open the door and they're not.
06:13:14.020
I think we're talking about the same thing here.
06:13:18.280
They're obviously like asking like, is it like genuinely like a dude who just like put on a wig to like go be creepy with women?
06:13:29.220
Yeah, but the issue is that they're making this distinction.
06:13:33.300
So you have to engage with them on their distinction or don't enforce them.
06:13:36.400
And then their answer would be how creepy men in the bathroom are weird.
06:13:41.380
I don't know why this is so exciting for you, Jay.
06:13:45.720
Since Chair 4's object of pleasure is pain, perhaps the best kind of friend with benefits she can get is a porcupine.
06:13:53.060
However, maybe she would dump the porcupine, too.
06:14:07.960
Jay, please destroy this radical orthodoxy bullshit.
06:14:10.900
She claims to read and to have faith bid yesterday, it said, in the 50s.
06:14:16.300
It actually started in 1999 from a singular book by John Milbank, pure BS.
06:14:22.800
I don't know what the 50s thing that they're referencing.
06:14:25.980
I also don't think we want to go into an apologetics religious debate.
06:14:30.860
Jay, do you want to do like a 20-second long log super quick on this?
06:14:35.200
Oh, he just says, please destroy this radical orthodoxy BS.
06:14:40.980
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what or where she came up with her religious views, but they seem to be just made up.
06:14:50.580
Well, she said Paul was a postmodernist, which is total nonsense.
06:14:55.980
And so where did you get up your religious views?
06:15:01.320
Radical orthodoxy is a theological movement that's really interested in engaging with the ancient scriptures and the way that the ancients...
06:15:16.340
Transgender bear mauls woman hours before track meet.
06:15:22.240
Also noted as having the biggest set of nuts of all participants.
06:15:34.760
Whoever sent this in, you're ridiculous, but I'll play it.
06:15:42.120
Would you rather blow Brian, lay with Jay, or give a joyful to Jim Bob?
06:16:04.840
Chair 2's simp husband has a gun in his mouth at least twice per year.
06:16:10.520
Jim Bob, isn't it dangerous for people like this to associate with Christianity?
06:16:18.760
I'm simultaneously so powerful and so stupid that I'm manipulating.
06:16:22.040
They can't really change it because it's not Christianity.
06:16:44.720
Jim Bob been enjoying your appearances and respect Jay's theological depth.
06:16:49.780
Chair one is definition of don't judge a book by its cover.
06:17:08.920
Um, okay, so this is possibly the dumbest question ever.
06:17:16.520
Let's say you're having consensual sex with a woman and the sex is great, right?
06:17:21.060
And you guys have had sex a lot of times before and you're, uh, it's missionary position.
06:17:44.380
And then the woman clearly revokes her consent.
06:17:53.480
Um, oh my God, this is such a r-slurred question.
06:17:55.900
Um, at what, because let's say the guy's on the down thrust at what point is it S is it
06:18:08.120
Because like how many thrusts until, because like you got to give the guy at least one
06:18:16.140
thrust because he's on the down thrust and it's gravity.
06:18:22.920
And he's going to stop, but it's just like, is, has he just graped you?
06:18:27.280
If you say stop, but it's like the middle of the down thrust and he completes the down
06:18:33.860
There's gravity and momentum and there's like two pumps.
06:18:55.420
So like, you said two pumps, there's not momentum to make you go back up.
06:19:13.320
It's just like, he's processing the whole thing and he, it's like rapid fire.
06:19:17.940
Like it's me personally, I'm not into the, the, the, like the, the energizer bunny, like
06:19:24.940
But some dudes are just like, like the, the pumps per minute is really high.
06:19:29.740
So like within the course of a second, it's like three pumps.
06:19:32.920
So the woman says stop and it's like three pumps.
06:19:42.140
If he three pumps and then he pulls out, he's like, Oh my God, are you okay?
06:19:51.240
It's only essay until after you vocalize that you don't want to do it anymore.
06:19:54.680
No, but, but so if we're looking chronologically timeline, so you're engaging, he's jackhammering.
06:20:00.820
He's fucking jackhammering and it's missionary.
06:20:04.140
So there's gravity and momentum pump, pump, pump, pump, pump.
06:20:16.640
Like you wouldn't expect the guy to just like plank, be, be able to fully stop the thrust
06:20:25.980
At what point is it, would it be like, if he does the one thrust and he's like, pulls
06:20:37.580
He finishes the, he's halfway through the thrust.
06:20:42.060
At what point is it, let's say, yeah, I'm curious everyone's answer.
06:20:47.700
No, this is a serious question because if it was in a courtroom and it went to testimony
06:20:54.280
Like you would have to detail some of the stuff and you would have to demonstrate like I said
06:21:06.940
Um, I would argue that there's some ambiguity here, some leeway, because in the middle of
06:21:18.500
Like you couldn't, I was laughing at the chat, but you couldn't like, I don't see how you
06:21:28.020
It's like there's a, there has to be a duration of the act.
06:21:31.420
So then how do you in the court case determine if it was or wasn't SA?
06:21:50.680
Um, um, I think that would be, I think that would be a scenario almost potentially impossible
06:22:02.300
Like, yeah, you need like some type of regularity in time to induct it for, for anything.
06:22:11.940
You know, like a pattern, like it is a single second of a transgression long enough of a,
06:22:18.100
of to be a pattern to recognize as like, you did that.
06:22:24.500
So if he pumps like once and gets off, you'd be like, he's probably in the clear.
06:22:27.720
It's almost like, like if you had a split second, if you took the position that thoughts themselves
06:22:32.960
could be immoral if you maintain them, like if a thought lasted for like, you know, like
06:22:41.020
milliseconds, did you have a, did you have a bad thought?
06:22:48.480
So like if he's pumping down, he hears no, and he's like, oh, I'm just going to stick
06:22:53.000
it out a little bit longer so I can enjoy myself.
06:23:00.520
I'm not sure if, if, how you, how do you determine it in that kind of situation?
06:23:06.660
So like if she's persistently saying no, you'd be like, that's obvious S.A.
06:23:16.460
Well, why do you, so the first pump you don't have to stop, but the second and third you
06:23:21.400
I think the danger, the concern is that it can conceivably be a situation where a woman
06:23:35.080
Like at what point is it not a false allegation?
06:23:45.080
So I was wondering if he meant like you need more than one to affirm that it is a true
06:23:50.320
People in the chat are saying once she says, stop, you stop.
06:23:55.640
But the reality in the scenario, there would be gravity and there would be momentum.
06:24:00.660
So it's like, if a woman says, stop mid thrust, let's not for, okay.
06:24:09.660
Mid thrust, you have gravity and momentum going.
06:24:14.500
What if the guy does, doesn't have the physical strength to literally essentially do like a
06:24:21.180
first plank despite the existing momentum that has occurred?
06:24:30.220
We're missing something very simple here and clear is that the, for communication to be verified,
06:24:36.940
uh, the one speaking needs a response from the, the person who you're speaking to.
06:24:45.340
So then you'd have to know that you, you'd have to know that he heard you say no.
06:24:50.980
No, that's a necessary component that we're missing now.
06:24:54.360
Well, only after she knows that he heard that then from that point on, that's where you
06:25:02.620
And how do you tell if the guy, like the, the bad thought, right?
06:25:05.980
The guy who hears the no, he processes it, but then he's like, I didn't really hear no.
06:25:16.140
It's going to be in the woman's hands to make sure.
06:25:21.700
It's like this, you know, easy it is to write someone an email and be like, I wrote you an
06:25:25.180
email, but if you didn't get the response that they got the email, you can't really hold
06:25:33.480
That's why communication, you should always call people directly.
06:25:39.060
So with, if she says no and he doesn't stop and she doesn't follow up, then it's never
06:25:46.660
If, because there's no verification of communication, he could have thought that he, she said, Oh,
06:25:53.000
Like there's a matter, there's so many ways to interpret sounds, you know?
06:26:06.340
Cause a lot of women will claim that they froze.
06:26:09.320
Which is why they didn't push away or verbalize anything again.
06:26:11.880
I mean, I think there should just be a kind of standard.
06:26:13.880
If you could, like, if you knew, like the, the ultimate parachute pole is like, just like
06:26:27.120
If you were having sex with guy and he was on top, whatever.
06:26:29.500
And he, he was going to pound town and, uh, the, the pumps per minute are really high.
06:26:45.440
Uh, all, you know, the, the sex is consensual, whatever, but I don't know, maybe you're like
06:26:49.660
in physical pain and you just say, Oh, stop, stop.
06:27:00.060
Two pumps because of speed and momentum and gravity.
06:27:04.440
Like you would be like, would you feel like that'd be okay?
06:27:19.140
I'd feel like if he like stops within the first two seconds, he's in the clear.
06:27:26.840
What if he's like, you got, you got, you're processing too.
06:27:29.660
But like, cause, cause chronologically though, like wouldn't you, couldn't you conceivably
06:27:37.620
make a legal case of like, okay, chronologically you should, you said stop.
06:27:42.020
I don't know if they're going to be going off of pump counts.
06:27:48.500
But they're probably going to be looking more at like his reaction immediately to it.
06:27:52.920
And did he aim to try to stop like in any human reasonable time?
06:27:58.720
Then I think most courts would probably feel fine with that.
06:28:01.320
I think we've kind of already answered that, but like nobody, nobody in the court would
06:28:06.300
Well, no, the question is like, well, you got to ask the, in reverse, you got to say, what's
06:28:10.860
the longest amount of time that's permitted for it to be considered stopping?
06:28:17.300
I'm not really sure what longest amount of time.
06:28:22.460
I don't think anyone agreed two pumps specifically, right?
06:28:24.720
They were like, ah, about two seconds response time.
06:28:45.400
Uh, we have realizer for this realize a network donated $29 and 99 cents.
06:28:53.220
To clarify today, not so bright said today that she thought radical orthodoxy started in
06:29:00.500
It started in 1999 via one book by a guy named John Milbank.
06:29:24.140
Never married women telling married men how relationships work.
06:29:33.600
Mr. Pump, how many pumps does it take to be called a grapest?
06:29:48.940
Chair one, if you could snap your fingers and make all of your tattoos go away, would you
06:29:54.520
Knowing it might massively increase your chances of finding the man of your dreams.
06:30:09.580
And it was in commemoration of someone who passed.
06:30:16.460
What's the first one you would remove if you had the time and the money and the ability
06:31:20.340
Brian, what is this thing Kyla keeps holding over your head and threatening you with to keep
06:31:39.300
She's got photographs, videos, in a safe, behind a portrait of Bill Clinton.
06:31:55.140
We appreciate you sacrificing your brain cells to listen to her illogical statements and
06:32:00.300
then have to remap your brain wiring to correct her.
06:32:14.040
Taking an intellectual slash curious interest in EO with no interest to convert.
06:32:19.780
Reading the early church fathers, ecumenical councils.
06:32:38.840
Erudite, good job on the debate with JB and Jay.
06:32:57.220
Everything I said earlier to chair one also applies to you.
06:33:12.120
Okay, probably one of the final things that we're going to touch on here.
06:33:19.560
You guys circled the following to which you agree.
06:33:35.080
Because I know there was one that was, like, about the U.S.
06:33:38.000
Yeah, let's just stick it to, stick to U.S. or Western countries, I guess.
06:33:43.840
For me, I think it just comes down to, like, we do have equality.
06:33:50.780
It's just a lot to do with, like, the social pressure and the idea of, like,
06:33:57.180
and I'm put into constant question if I'm good enough
06:34:00.820
and a male counterpoint can be doing what I'm doing or half as much
06:34:05.440
and they're being praised for what they're doing.
06:34:12.620
A lot of women also in the industry tend to be put into uncomfortable situations
06:34:17.500
to be able to advance in their careers, whether it's sexually or just in general harassment.
06:34:29.560
Well, it's, like, in the Hollywood entertainment industry,
06:34:38.720
He was like, I'll give you this really good role in the Tarantino flick
06:34:48.580
But I'm a bit, when it comes to privilege, right?
06:34:51.140
So you say men are more privileged in society than women.
06:34:58.900
Taylor Swift is one of the highest, I think, is the highest earning musical artist.
06:35:03.520
There's plenty of women who end up being incredibly successful in the music industry.
06:35:10.180
I kind of fail to see how men are more privileged in society
06:35:16.600
Taylor Swift even has a song called, I think it was, like, If I Was a Man.
06:35:20.660
And she writes in the song that she has overcome a lot of obstacles as a woman.
06:35:26.160
She's been looked down upon just for simply being a woman.
06:35:29.480
And in the chorus, she says, but if I was a man, it wouldn't be the case.
06:35:42.540
But she's bringing up a lot of points about women still overcoming a lot of obstacles
06:35:46.680
in these big industries, in this case being the music industry.
06:36:00.140
Double standards, being questioned if they're good enough.
06:36:02.380
No, I just said in big industries, not just the music industry, in any industry, I feel
06:36:09.480
like there's a lot of double standards for women that men don't have to overcome.
06:36:15.460
I would be willing to grant that women have unique experiences when it comes to moving through
06:36:21.040
the business world or various industries, whether it's the music industry, entertainment industry,
06:36:33.240
There's so many successful women in these industries.
06:36:48.360
But women are doing remarkably well in the music industry.
06:36:56.120
But still, does that take away the fact that we have to overcome double standards?
06:36:59.960
We have to work twice as hard as our male counterpoints?
06:37:02.220
I'm not sure if you have to work twice as hard as men.
06:37:10.760
Well, you said that you work twice as hard as a man in that industry.
06:37:21.920
You have to look a certain way, act a certain way.
06:37:30.980
Do they have to objectify themselves to be able to market themselves as an artist?
06:37:36.380
I mean, in entertainment, any person trying to come up in entertainment is going to get
06:37:42.040
They're going to have to go through all the same struggles.
06:37:50.520
Privilege to me is the fact that you don't even have to go through what we have to go
06:37:54.760
But we go through the same ridicule, the same struggle to be successful, to be entertainers.
06:38:05.120
But the examples that I just gave, like sexual objectification, is that similar to what you
06:38:13.860
Like, I don't think it's as much as women go through and then have to go through.
06:38:17.940
So the only thing that proves privilege is that I'm not sexually objectified.
06:38:26.320
I think you should say more of the music industry, not just like pop stars.
06:38:29.980
Like, a lot of us aren't, you know, aren't at that caliber of Taylor Swift doesn't mean
06:38:33.820
that just because we're not at that fan base, we're not going through the struggles that
06:38:41.940
My idea of privilege is women, at the end of the day, they are being objectified.
06:38:48.840
They're being told that they have to look a certain way, act a certain way.
06:38:52.720
Um, people in upper management, if you don't, should they try to look attractive in those
06:39:02.500
But you, so you support that or you don't like that?
06:39:06.340
I'm not saying it's bad, but I don't, I don't think it should be shoved down our throat so
06:39:11.460
Did anybody force you to dress the way that you're dressed currently?
06:39:15.560
And then, I mean, do you, uh, post like revealing photos on your Instagram or do anything like that?
06:39:22.320
Yeah, but are you, are you like forced to do that?
06:39:24.340
How are you objectified if you're supporting that?
06:39:26.700
When there's people pressuring you, that's different from free will.
06:39:29.980
Like if I'm just feeling myself and I'm posting myself in revealing clothes because I want
06:39:35.020
to, it's not the same as if somebody was like a manager.
06:39:37.600
Hey, Kelly, I think you would sell more records if you were to show more skin.
06:39:42.180
Yeah, but pressuring doesn't violate your free will.
06:39:44.720
Your free will actually disproves like that pressuring can have an effect, like pressuring can
06:39:50.500
affect you, but your free will can actually overcome pressuring, right?
06:39:55.660
Like you, you still have your free will to overcome pressuring, right?
06:39:59.480
So you're saying there's a pressure in the industry that tells you to sell your sex, like
06:40:06.820
It's going to help you, help you in the game, right?
06:40:11.280
There's a documentary that just came out for Karol G.
06:40:14.060
She's probably like the Taylor Swift version of the Hispanic community.
06:40:26.460
Are you signed to a record label or are you independent?
06:40:30.000
So who is telling you to do the objectifying behaviors?
06:40:37.780
I have gone through that, but I'm talking as a world, like more of a world view.
06:40:42.680
Oh, so you're talking the zeitgeist surrounding the culture.
06:40:46.160
I have everyone that at my network, I've heard it through, yeah, the culture, my network.
06:40:49.420
So wait, what about the, so there's a documentary that demonstrates what's happening?
06:40:53.820
Yeah, so she is, she mentioned that when she first started off, she signed over with a
06:41:03.180
He said to her, if you want, I have so many plans for you to become a pop star, but in order
06:41:12.280
If that doesn't occur, then, you know, your music industry is not going to happen.
06:41:18.120
I don't think we dispute that these things absolutely do happen, especially in the entertainment
06:41:37.700
That's like someone literally seeking out a weaker person.
06:41:42.120
But, um, it brings into question, like, what is a 16-year-old doing in that scenario?
06:41:49.080
Where, like, without, like, you're like, who's the guiding?
06:41:51.780
Like, if this, if this industry is so horrific, it seems like you would want more guidance and
06:42:02.440
There's so many, like, gray areas, middle grounds.
06:42:05.600
Um, some people just don't feel comfortable talking about that.
06:42:08.220
She even said it in the documentary, she was like, I'm really uncomfortable even bringing
06:42:11.060
this up because this could, like, ruin, like, ruin numbers.
06:42:19.100
Uh, there are plenty of, like, uh, especially boys who were, like, child actors who are victimized
06:42:25.020
in just the same way in the entertainment industry.
06:42:27.980
There's, like, countless and countless examples of men.
06:42:31.460
Uh, and isn't there something going on with Justin Bieber right now?
06:42:39.600
But he, wasn't he, like, when he got into the industry, some stuff with Diddy?
06:42:44.880
But, uh, it doesn't seem like this is a uniquely, uh, female thing.
06:42:49.240
But, uh, just to move it along a little bit, uh, besides the music industry thing, uh, men,
06:42:54.600
you say men are more privileged in society than women.
06:43:00.920
Going to you, uh, men are, you say men are more privileged in society than women.
06:43:05.860
When I circled, yes, the first thing that came to mind is how when a male walks into a
06:43:10.740
hospital and he's a patient, he's taken way more seriously than a woman.
06:43:21.680
That's, you're saying that's been your experience?
06:43:27.120
Um, EMT, but yeah, I've seen that happen to where like a man will say like things that
06:43:34.340
And then the doctors are going to be like, let's do the full scan.
06:43:38.560
But like when a woman says something like that, it's kind of like a broken arm.
06:43:47.240
And then, uh, have you seen this new, it's a really actually a decent show, even though it's
06:43:57.100
Um, and you, so you drop people off at the emergency room?
06:44:05.920
Well, you said you were EMS, so you'd be transporting.
06:44:15.840
They do like the, like taking grandma to like dialysis.
06:44:25.080
That's where you witnessed these men being taken more seriously than the women?
06:44:30.520
I don't think it's necessarily like, oh, like it's not overt.
06:44:36.220
Yeah, but that's where you witnessed it, right?
06:44:37.660
It's more like if a guy says this and this and this, and this is wrong with me, a doctor's
06:44:44.340
But you said you witnessed it in your own field of occupation.
06:44:49.120
But when it comes to EMS, uh, typically when you, well, I guess if you're emergency transporting,
06:44:55.980
so because there's long wait lines in the emergency room, don't you typically just drop
06:45:02.180
But how long do you stay with the doctor to make the determination that like you, you
06:45:09.880
stay the entire course of the patient being there at the hospital?
06:45:13.560
Like, don't, isn't it, you go in, uh, 62 year old male, uh, uh, ventricular, ventricular
06:45:24.160
The, the hospital takes, I guess, uh, uh, they, they take the patient and then don't you go
06:45:32.220
By and large, like, yes, that's how it happens.
06:45:34.540
But sometimes, you know, the doctor and you will have like a sidebar conversation and you're
06:45:40.420
I've seen doctors that say, oh, she's definitely being a hypochondriac.
06:45:46.120
The doctor is consulting the, the emergency room doctor is consulting with a EMS.
06:45:54.220
I'm not saying consulting with, but sometimes we have sidebar conversations where like, I'm
06:45:58.540
like, Hey, like, you know, what do you think it is?
06:46:00.660
And we talk about it like, you know, cause that it's not violating HIPAA.
06:46:06.420
And sometimes the doctor will say like, whether they actually take it seriously or not.
06:46:10.260
And that's just kind of like the behind the scenes.
06:46:12.900
Do you think there's a disparity between hypochondriac between men and women?
06:46:23.580
Like, is it more likely the case that women will think something's terribly wrong, freak
06:46:30.040
And it turns out it's nothing versus a man thinking something's terribly wrong and freaking
06:46:37.000
To be honest, in my experience, I've seen it pretty evenly divided amongst sexes is
06:46:43.420
that there's hypochondriacs on both sides, but I've noticed that men that are hypochondriacs
06:46:48.860
are still taken more seriously than women that genuinely are hypochondriacs.
06:46:53.400
So then how would you determine that it was because they were a man then?
06:46:57.020
Or are you just pointing out something you witnessed, but you're not sure?
06:47:00.520
Something, I mean, I'm, you're never going to be able to like pinpoint and say, this is
06:47:06.740
Uh, just, just to move things along a bit, but, uh, so men are more privileged in society
06:47:13.220
Are there any other examples you can provide besides, uh, you're, uh, alleging that men
06:47:20.860
Alleging that men get taken more seriously in the healthcare setting.
06:47:24.160
I mean, I could sit down and like, if I did like more research, I could like bring up
06:47:32.060
I don't like, we obviously, cause we have to move things along.
06:47:36.340
Well, you don't, you don't have to go detailed, but give me like one or two things of like
06:47:43.120
Um, I definitely think, well, it's, it's slowly getting better now, but let's say crash
06:47:50.700
They were just male dummies and that actually matters when it comes to like, aren't, I mean,
06:47:56.920
Aren't they just, no, but like male torso, like male, like male torso.
06:48:01.060
So, and you can laugh, but that's actually like a real study is that the points of impact
06:48:05.420
are completely different when you hit something.
06:48:07.040
What about, how do they test someone who I, who's a trans?
06:48:17.620
I mean, I guess the, the sexism of seatbelts, I guess, but like how, how would a crash like
06:48:26.780
Well, it's not that it's necessarily like, oh, seatbelts are sexist.
06:48:33.580
Like men typically have a wider shoulder girdle in riding.
06:48:36.340
For example, if you ride horses, like in general, male center of balance is significantly higher
06:48:41.160
And so, uh, like when it comes to like a female test dummy, one thing you'd want to like
06:48:49.160
And it's bimodal, but can I try bimodal, sexist, gender.
06:48:53.200
I don't know if this is compelling at all, but isn't it also the case that men are more
06:48:57.020
likely to be involved in, uh, like catastrophic road accidents.
06:49:02.520
But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be testing road safety for seatbelts.
06:49:10.400
But like I often hear from feminists like, oh, well, you know, the reason for why men pay
06:49:14.780
more in car insurance is because they're more likely to get into accidents.
06:49:19.600
Women actually get in more accidents on average.
06:49:25.600
Um, I, what would be the justification of not making sure that seatbelts protect both
06:49:33.220
Well, who's to say that it's just not proof of male privilege.
06:49:36.280
Well, also who's to say that because the crash test dummy is male, that this wouldn't like
06:49:42.140
that, that the people testing this and doing a study set out with the intention of solely
06:49:50.320
Like, uh, uh, they're like, okay, we're just going to do determination on impact and we're
06:49:55.500
just going to come to a conclusion that like using this test dummy, the damage that's caused
06:50:00.400
to the man is going to be like, it's going to be pretty similar to the damage that would
06:50:06.980
I would just say a, the scientist is failing the generalizable principle and they probably
06:50:11.520
And then the second question would be, why would they like default assume that the like
06:50:16.480
And in medical science, probably what you're saying, I don't even necessarily agree with
06:50:19.760
the like privilege point, but to the medical science thing, there's just a really long
06:50:22.680
history of typically testing and studying male bodies and finding results that don't
06:50:31.080
I actually think it's evidence of female privilege that they don't find themselves in the bottom
06:50:37.180
rung of society that they need to allow their bodies to be medically experimented on.
06:50:42.480
So this idea, yes, because if you look at medical experimentation, drugs, uh, surgical procedures,
06:50:48.380
these are overwhelmingly tested on men because men are more, I guess either they're more willing,
06:50:54.900
Mostly because college athletes is the most common medical testing group and college athletes
06:51:00.520
I'm not sure if that's even true, but I'll go ahead and grant it.
06:51:03.140
I don't think it's evidence of male privilege that they're getting like, uh, various medicines
06:51:08.600
pumped into them that could like, that are, they're being medically tested on.
06:51:12.400
I think that that would point towards female privilege that they don't find themselves in positions
06:51:17.380
in life where they need to be paid a couple hundred bucks to be pumped full of some like
06:51:25.300
I don't know how it's male privilege to know what your symptoms of heart attack are, but
06:51:30.020
not know what like a female's symptoms of heart attack are fairly comparable.
06:51:34.900
This is actually a really big issue is that when women have a heart attack, they often
06:51:38.820
feel like they're having like gut indigestion, which is why a lot of females will be found
06:51:44.260
Whereas the common symptoms of like the pain rating down the arm is significantly more common
06:51:49.980
I'll even grant that there's differences between this, but that still doesn't address
06:51:53.800
the medical experimentation point where why is it that it's not experimentation, right?
06:51:58.420
Like science is serving a population, figuring out how to help people with medical science
06:52:04.360
Because you talk a lot about subjects that I don't think you're actually competent in.
06:52:09.480
I mean, she actually was when she was mentioning the gut thing and she was absolutely right.
06:52:12.840
No, I'm not asking if she's right about that point.
06:52:16.860
You don't need training in any sort of area to diagnose people's situations?
06:52:22.040
You're talking about heart attacks in men and women.
06:52:27.480
I'm telling you about an empirical study that was done on heart attacks between men.
06:52:40.200
But you have no training in the subject matter.
06:52:53.300
And so you have a study that you claim you've read.
06:53:03.780
If you think that proves your case, it would be an appeal to an authority.
06:53:08.040
I'm not medically trained, nor am I claiming to be.
06:53:13.420
It seems like you think it is because you're asking me.
06:53:17.300
I have answered so many questions, Jay, that it's actually insane.
06:53:22.380
There's so many questions you still won't answer from me.
06:53:29.960
Again, if a five-year-old child means somebody who answers your questions and then at some point
06:53:33.760
rebuts with a Socratic question in return, then I guess, sure.
06:53:40.440
You can rebutt with questions, and I also answer your questions.
06:53:44.480
You just say that there's this paper that you read about heart attacks.
06:53:49.100
I can tell you the titles of books and papers that I've read.
06:53:54.380
I don't know the name of the study off the top of my head.
06:53:56.260
How do we know that you're saying anything after...
06:54:00.220
Yeah, go and look for the study you don't know.
06:54:03.160
I don't know the name of the study or who did it, but Google the study.
06:54:08.740
You could probably put in study that looks at the comparison.
06:54:12.180
You just say things, and there's nothing to back it up over and over and over.
06:54:18.940
Again, so are you saying that there is not a study that shows that there's a variance?
06:54:26.700
I'm just saying that's not what the Socratic method is.
06:54:29.520
It's a dumb debate trick to avoid questions, and everyone can see that.
06:54:40.120
There's a medical difference in the symptomology of heart attacks between males and females.
06:54:43.600
You just say that these things exist with no sources.
06:54:45.400
Yeah, I don't spend a lot of time memorizing titles of studies, but that doesn't mean that I'm false about being wrong.
06:54:49.540
Then you're not actually competent in these matters.
06:54:52.280
No doctor would be like, I'm not actually a doctor because I can't cite my sources.
06:55:07.660
I don't know the name of the source, and this isn't a dunk.
06:55:13.600
So if I can reference somebody trained in medical science, have you heard about this phenomenon where there was understudied?
06:55:21.080
You just cited a person who's not actually a doctor.
06:55:27.580
Okay, so you're literally just finding a person in the room who's had some medical exposure.
06:55:37.900
Is your line for cadulity and believing anything only when doctors say things?
06:55:41.460
You claim that there's papers and you can't give a paper.
06:55:42.000
So are you telling me that if doctors say something, you believe it?
06:55:45.020
So did you believe in doctors during the cough-cough situation?
06:55:52.040
Memorizing the title of a study is not evidence-
06:56:03.280
I feel really bad for you because you are going to think that this is some optical dunk and
06:56:11.460
I have no citations of titles to prove whether or not a study was done.
06:56:15.420
I didn't come prepped for the medical symptomology of heart attacks between men and women, but
06:56:19.940
it's an established phenomenon that people know about.
06:56:32.500
I'm calling you out for being a fake and a bullshitter.
06:56:38.260
It's going to take a super chat coming up to be like, okay, Jay, shut the fuck up.
06:56:42.720
I've named Costello as a source for my source on incels.
06:56:52.880
Ladies and gentlemen, I got to move it on a little bit.
06:57:00.820
I'm going to let it come through, but it's a little pro.
06:57:21.860
The woman tried to discredit Jay because he couldn't distinguish two terms while he tries
06:57:27.140
to discredit her for not being able to name books.
06:57:30.680
Two sides of the same fallacious gingerly coin.
06:57:41.420
I'm glad you could get Gisleine Maxwell out of prison to have her on the show.
06:57:50.680
Then we'll let the rest of the chats come through.
06:57:53.100
Anything else when it comes to privilege or just the...
06:58:30.940
You guys are making a really good case for why the pay gap exists.
06:58:36.340
We've got maybe, I don't know, 20 minutes left or something.
06:58:38.720
I'd recommend for the final 20 minutes of the show, you guys, you know, chip her up a little bit.
06:59:04.740
Because you're not your typical orthodox leftist, right?
06:59:21.760
I think there's a disparity between pay between men and women, but there's a reason for it
06:59:32.120
Going to Kelly, you said to 16, women are oppressed in the United States.
06:59:43.560
So, I know it says the United States, but I do want to just acknowledge if any woman in
06:59:48.960
the world is oppressed, it's going to trickle down to the U.S.
06:59:55.120
It's going to trickle down to us women in the United States.
06:59:59.320
Do you know the, I think it's the North Sentinelese Island?
07:00:05.740
You know that island where it's like maybe like 100 to 300 inhabitants?
07:00:10.100
They're like an uncontacted or mostly uncontacted tribe.
07:00:16.560
It's this island where they're just, they live on an island.
07:00:21.360
If the men were just oppressing the shit out of the women on that island, how would that
07:00:32.200
Like there, there, there's no communication out, no communication in.
07:00:42.660
But I just feel like at the end of the day, if there's a woman out there that's being
07:00:45.380
like graped and there, I said grapes, but, um, yeah.
07:00:52.940
Um, but like oppression, like there's, there's levels a little, like not quite as bad.
07:00:57.960
They're not being protected by the law for just basic human rights in any country.
07:01:04.040
It's, it, it doesn't make sense why the U S do men have a duty to protect women.
07:01:18.840
So you guys would probably acknowledge, you guys would probably acknowledge that men have
07:01:27.140
What duties do women have to society or to men?
07:01:53.860
You're supposed to have a place to, you know, make your husband feel at home.
07:01:57.260
If he's going to be providing for you in that way.
07:02:04.640
Abiding by the law, voting, following the like civil.
07:02:33.520
I think we tend to forget that the U.S. is composed of many different races.
07:02:46.100
I see a lot of Latin women, especially in the U.S., that go through a lot of, it's within
07:02:58.500
It's a lot of oppression, a lot of abuse, marital abuse, relationship abuse, a lot of
07:03:08.300
Is there anything, how about this, like state down, government down, any oppression on that
07:03:16.880
Like are women oppressed under law in any sort of way?
07:03:33.060
But I'm curious though, because we're saying women are oppressed in the U.S.A., men can't
07:03:41.280
It's not clear to me if there's like an asymmetry in terms of anything there.
07:03:49.560
If a woman has the right to terminate a child, but if she decides to keep it, the man has
07:03:58.260
So he has no say in whether she's going to have it or not.
07:04:17.580
If it's your human right to end the continued life of another human life that starts at
07:04:27.460
That's your right, which needs to be upheld and protected by men, right?
07:04:34.140
So if you decide to have the child, a man who has no say in whether you have the child or
07:04:50.800
So in these states, women don't even have the option to have an abortion.
07:04:56.160
Let's grant you, you have the freedom to have your liberated termination of your own
07:05:08.320
You get to decide if you're going to do that or not.
07:05:10.760
The man has no say in whether or not you can do that or not.
07:05:13.960
But you have a say in the man paying for it if you decide to keep it.
07:05:19.080
At the end of the day, if you didn't use a condom and you wanted to have a kid...
07:05:27.900
It's just like those are the consequences to having unprotected sex.
07:05:30.800
So the consequences for a man for not wearing a condom, right, is that he has to pay for
07:05:37.360
But there's no consequences for you having sex without a condom.
07:05:47.100
Do you think that people should face the consequences of their actions in a society?
07:05:59.100
I think at the end of the day, like, take responsibility for your actions, but I don't
07:06:06.260
Like, if you don't want to have the child, don't have the child.
07:06:11.540
Who's the one entity that's a human who doesn't have a choice in that scenario?
07:06:29.760
I know you think that, but when did your life begin?
07:06:32.660
I'm sure during the first trimester, but to me it's that...
07:06:35.800
There's actually a moment where your unique DNA begins.
07:06:42.480
Everybody at this table right now, there's no way we existed without this specific moment.
07:06:57.840
If you can, though, just try to wrap it just because we can't linger too long.
07:07:02.180
You'll notice a lot of men with a lot of opinions on this don't know many things about pregnancy.
07:07:07.300
It's when it's implanted in the wrong position.
07:07:20.260
Okay, so do you consider that an abortion or what?
07:07:23.380
I'm asking you because you said that you have to kill it.
07:07:29.920
Well, I'm asking you, assuming when the life begins.
07:07:34.820
I'm assuming you think that life begins when fertilization has happened.
07:07:44.100
So if Jim Bob were to grant that in that instance, yes, abortion is warranted, would you be okay
07:07:53.200
So just really quick for the whole panel, sort of related to Jim Bob's question.
07:07:57.400
Take a guy who has a one-night stand with a woman, and she gets pregnant, and she opts
07:08:29.380
I want to kind of change the framing a little bit.
07:08:33.040
Are men who don't want to pay child support, are they deadbeats?
07:08:43.900
I think men should have the same sexual reproductive rights that women do.
07:08:47.780
So if you grant women the ability to abort a fetus, you should probably give men a financial
07:09:00.720
Those of you who are pro-choice, if the woman's reason for wanting to get the abortion is
07:09:04.740
simply she's just not ready, and she's not financially capable of having a child justified
07:09:22.260
Legally, I think Canada has the best model, which is like leaving it up to like, I don't
07:09:29.620
Age of viability is probably somewhere like 15 weeks.
07:09:40.400
Yeah, so the woman gets pregnant, she just, she's not ready, doesn't want to have the
07:09:53.260
Okay, so, but then you put a man in that situation, he isn't financially ready to have
07:09:59.180
the kid, he's not ready, whatever it is, should he be on the hook for child support in the
07:10:04.620
event that he does get a woman pregnant and she decides to keep it, should he pay child
07:10:15.160
Uh, like she said, well, like surrendering, like his legal, like, um, just to be clear
07:10:21.840
in all 50 states, regardless of the circumstances as a man, if you have a child, you're on the
07:10:28.280
hook for, you can be on the hook for child support.
07:10:31.180
Well, you are on the hook for child support, whether she seeks it or not, that's not a
07:10:44.640
Well, it's just interesting to me because you were saying, well, the consequences for
07:10:48.720
the guy, when Jim Bob was asking you about, uh, the child support situation, well, you
07:10:55.140
This isn't, this like, couldn't you, it's like a bronze age, uh, pro-life position.
07:11:04.900
No, you should have just taken the precautions.
07:11:09.940
But couldn't you make that same argument towards women?
07:11:16.300
You should have thought of the consequences before as a woman, you got pregnant.
07:11:23.160
But women can escape this by just getting an abortion.
07:11:30.020
I just agree with you in your, uh, final question about if they, if they can't afford it and they
07:11:35.700
don't, they don't want the child, then no, they shouldn't be responsible for it.
07:11:40.300
But earlier you were saying, well, they should have thought of that before.
07:11:43.820
I still think they should have been like taking the precautions.
07:12:47.700
But if you had one that what did pertain to the government.
07:12:52.460
Uh, in certain jurisdictions, women can't be topless.
07:12:58.360
That relates more to, so to rights than the, I wouldn't categorize that as oppression, but
07:13:02.740
it conceivably is a right that men have that women don't.
07:13:06.620
I don't even think women want to be walking around with their titties out.
07:13:09.820
Um, so I think with the whole, like covering your shoulders and not wearing certain things
07:13:15.680
during school hours, I think that's something that feels very degrading towards
07:13:20.840
Um, and that's like very much implemented in schools.
07:13:23.500
If a girl is showing like shoulders, they get sent home.
07:13:28.840
I mean, technically wouldn't, I don't know actually how it works.
07:13:32.660
Like if a guy was wearing booty shorts, wouldn't he also be in like getting trouble with the
07:13:38.220
If he was wearing like booty shorts with his ass cheeks out.
07:13:40.640
Well, like in high school, guys are told they can't wear certain shirts, certain color
07:13:49.780
I think it's weird that people are already sexualizing a child and saying, hide your
07:13:57.560
I mean, if, if like a 12 year old wanted to show up to school wearing a G string and you
07:14:07.740
I think that's a bit, well, I'm using an extreme to kind of paint the picture here.
07:14:16.380
So I don't think that's the same as wearing a tank top.
07:14:18.800
I think our tank top, wait, shoulder, G string, G string versus a tank top.
07:14:25.100
But I don't even think tank tops are, women are banned from wearing tank tops.
07:14:31.720
She wouldn't be able to wear this to middle school, high school or anywhere.
07:14:37.180
It's been a minute since, uh, it's like the, okay.
07:14:52.360
I think that's sexualizing children, which is weird.
07:14:57.200
Why do, why do they need to cover up their shoulders?
07:14:59.260
It's just like, what if it's really hot outside?
07:15:01.520
What about school uniforms in like a classical school?
07:15:19.820
So it's like, you could argue it from a distraction point of view.
07:15:35.640
Yeah, I would say that's true for a child, even if they don't understand it.
07:15:42.120
Yeah, I would say the more, especially women's shoulders, depending on the culture, women's
07:15:48.140
I mean, in the same situations, like guys can't typically go shirtless, right?
07:15:54.180
I can't go into my middle school class with my shirt off, right?
07:16:01.220
Oh, well, I'm not arguing for the oppression thing.
07:16:02.880
I just wanted you guys to engage with like, what's the issue with shoulders?
07:16:05.340
Because it seems like you guys agree with that standard.
07:16:07.100
So I'm trying to understand like, why do you have an issue with your shoulders?
07:16:09.680
I'm not impressed, and the example is because middle schools have dress codes that don't
07:16:18.040
Sure, I just wanted to understand your guys' aversion to shoulders, because it seemed like
07:16:21.880
Honestly, I don't even care if a girl's wearing like a tank top to...
07:16:27.500
I don't think I'd really care, but I mean, some of these rules are probably like extremely
07:16:37.060
What do you think the past was trying to regulate about the woman or the girl?
07:16:41.500
Well, I think the past had much stricter general rules when it came to dress.
07:16:56.220
But you're not showing the humble heart of it, actually.
07:17:00.240
Look, if you were fully dressed in a full thing, you would still not be a modest person.
07:17:06.620
But when we're talking about dress code, we're not like worried about their humble heart.
07:17:17.900
And then they go, okay, what if I cut the loops off of the shoulders and now it's just
07:17:27.300
Well, it's irrelevant to what we're talking about.
07:17:30.000
The point is, when you set a standard, even if you find it arbitrary about a tank top,
07:17:36.660
I'm just trying to understand your reason to be averse to the tank top.
07:17:42.700
Showing more of your skin for a woman is generally away from modesty.
07:17:50.420
My kids go to school where they are fully covered.
07:17:55.480
I think it's kind of trashy that like for both men and women to be, or boys and girls
07:17:59.740
to be showing up in like tank tops, I think there's probably some leftover from like when
07:18:07.940
people, and this applies societally, when people dressed a bit more generally, dressed
07:18:14.440
up more formally, but for example, even when I was in like elementary school, sagging was
07:18:20.480
the big thing, and this is specifically tends to be like a boy thing, the sagging of the
07:18:26.140
Is this like sexualizing male boys because you don't want them to sag their pants?
07:18:32.060
Or is this just like kind of like, don't show your underwear?
07:18:35.460
Like is this sort of like just a formality of like present yourself in such a way that's
07:18:42.220
I'm just trying to understand if you guys think that shoulder sharing is sexual or...
07:18:50.880
It's a bigger argument about just standards, etiquette, presentation, formality.
07:19:00.880
You never notice like even if you're working from home, have you ever tried to like dress
07:19:08.060
Like get yourself impeccable even though you're home?
07:19:11.120
Like you could actually just be in your sweatpants, right?
07:19:19.660
I try to mostly look good for my husband to some degree.
07:19:25.900
So you're asking, yeah, do I like try to dress up specifically for work to like put myself
07:19:31.720
I think that's a decent environmental stimulus.
07:19:36.900
I guess what we're trying to get to is you guys were like, yeah, tank tops are bad.
07:19:42.220
I was just trying to understand why you're concerned about tank tops because she was using
07:19:50.620
It sounds like it is about sexualizing children.
07:19:54.860
We just gave you a bunch of different ways of viewing that.
07:19:58.300
But it has nothing to do with, by the way, what the topic is, which is whether or not
07:20:02.800
that's oppressive to have standards of dress code in any place.
07:20:08.620
Rachel Wilson says spaghetti straps aren't about showing shoulders.
07:20:14.360
They don't want young girls having their bras hanging out in school.
07:20:40.000
You guys, we all agreed that this would not be allowed in middle school.
07:20:53.200
So, I mean, it's still like this level of, it's not necessarily the most modest thing.
07:21:13.140
To have a modest dress code is the opposite of sexualizing them.
07:21:21.600
I just think at the end of the day, like, women should be able to dress a certain way without...
07:21:37.320
You should be able to wear whatever you want at any job you're at?
07:21:42.040
You should be able to not feel uncomfortable to show shoulders.
07:21:46.460
I think the way you dress doesn't identify what you're looking for, who you are.
07:21:56.240
I'm an artist, and that's a lot of the ways that we express ourselves is through our clothes.
07:22:01.200
Didn't you have this big gripe and grievance about how, like, the music industry sexualizes women,
07:22:07.160
I just said that if I wanted to post myself revealing, it's free will.
07:22:15.200
You're simultaneously oppressed, but also this is like a...
07:22:23.800
For me, the biggest point I was trying to make about the middle school or elementary school or high school
07:22:33.640
That's why I brought it up as, like, it's a form of oppression.
07:22:35.640
Okay, men shouldn't sag their pants, or, excuse me, boys shouldn't sag their pants.
07:22:44.300
To Charlie, you say women do not have equal rights to men in the United States.
07:22:59.720
This is why women should not be in the military, then, because...
07:23:05.520
You've never served a day in your life, so just be quiet.
07:23:13.140
We've been talking for seven hours, and I just can't...
07:23:17.120
Yeah, this podcast is analogous to military service.
07:23:20.620
No, his point is that she should definitely not be...
07:23:25.040
She's here as, like, a volunteer for your show.
07:23:33.980
This is, like, the final thing I'd like to touch on.
07:23:38.780
This is the final thing from the questionnaire, then I'm just pretty much done with it.
07:23:46.680
Women do not have equal rights to men in the USA.
07:23:51.800
I mean, we've already talked about it time and time again, but the first thing that came
07:24:04.040
Because men don't have any reproductive rights, so how would this be, like, a differential or
07:24:10.180
inequality in terms of a comparison between men and women?
07:24:24.420
What are the other things that, when it comes to rights, that men have that women don't?
07:24:40.240
An instance that's geared toward men and not women?
07:24:45.940
No, I mean, I'm saying that I'm not in the draft.
07:24:59.020
I can't be drafted because I'm already in the military.
07:25:06.540
If you didn't enlist, you couldn't be drafted, right?
07:25:12.440
Are you privileged as a woman to not having been entered into the draft if it came to
07:25:21.180
But how it is right now, would you say it's a privilege toward women to not be drafted?
07:25:32.700
If there is a draft, I think it should apply to both.
07:25:39.060
What rights do men have that women don't besides the abortion conversation?
07:25:51.740
Because this is literally the final thing I want to talk about.
07:26:35.260
I'm just saying, Brian, I'm not feeling it right now in this moment.
07:26:39.560
I mean, that's a real, like, easy, cowardice way to just be.
07:26:45.020
If you're willing to make the concession that you, there actually, there are no rights that men have that women don't, I'll happily move it on.
07:26:56.360
Otherwise, I'd, like, the time we've spent having the meta conversation over, I don't want to talk about this.
07:27:01.880
You could have just thrown out, like, one or two things when it comes to rights.
07:27:13.200
As of right now, I'm tired and I don't want to.
07:27:15.200
So if I give you, like, two minutes to recharge and, like, come back to you in two minutes and give you time to think about it, can we come back to it in two minutes?
07:27:24.500
Or I'm giving you time to think about it so you have a moment to gather your thoughts.
07:27:32.180
Then just concede that there is no right that men have that women don't.
07:27:41.760
It's not whether it makes me feel better or not.
07:27:45.020
I just said if it makes you feel happy, then yes.
07:27:55.640
So if your goal is, like, let's get out of here sooner, I think it'd be easier for you to just answer the question.
07:28:13.880
When did I ever call myself a feminist once in this entire thing?
07:28:29.920
Are you against, like, males predominating in leadership?
07:28:42.020
Are you against males predominating in leadership positions in government and corporations and the military?
07:29:11.880
I just want to hear it, and then I promise I'll move on.
07:29:14.880
What is a right that men have that women don't?
07:29:17.240
I will not even argue with it, even if I disagree.
07:29:19.860
I mean, I don't even know off the top of my head.
07:29:40.400
Kyle, I want to have a 30-second debate with you.
07:29:47.120
Oh, I thought you were going to bring up the meat.
07:29:52.940
I must have just thought it would be a funny, whimsical moment between us.
07:30:00.320
I think I half wrote it, and then I got distracted by the Uber thing.
07:30:13.100
I want you to look into one of these cameras and apologize to all the women with Audis,
07:30:20.900
I want you to apologize for your disgusting and sexist and misogynistic remarks.
07:30:26.680
It's been seven and a half hours, and Brian has beaten you down to believe that meaty lives matter, too.
07:30:45.580
I know you had a lot of notes, but I don't know if we'll get to be able to do everything.
07:30:50.360
One thing I thought would be interesting, or one of the prompts I had was that I think
07:30:55.520
corn is one of the most detrimental aspects of our society, and I felt like that's kind
07:31:03.000
But I might be too late to get into all of them.
07:31:12.700
This goes out to chair number two, the notorious GED.
07:31:16.180
If you could be a man for 24 hours, what would you do differently than you can now?
07:31:41.560
With the glasses, Jay is basically an orthodox stuffy.
07:31:46.040
Brian, buy a projector and use Jim Bob's massive forehead to project your losing solitaire games
07:32:04.760
I look forward to this show every week, as do most of us in the chat.
07:32:22.220
From you, for Kyla's future debates, can we please get a shot clockwork her paddle?
07:32:27.940
Also, if chair one is traditional, why have you not pulled up her first three Insta photos?
07:32:40.140
I do like scantily clad types of photos, but nothing that's exposing anything.
07:33:19.340
And if it's within two seconds, it's a pump fake.
07:33:34.840
There seems to be a gag reflex to this question from women and men in the church.
07:33:39.880
Panel, do you have any duty as a woman to society slash home slash church?
07:33:54.600
Of course, they take men more seriously when they speak.
07:34:01.000
They aren't going to spout off for the bunch of BS like you have been all night.
07:34:14.780
Jay, would you mind answering my last TTS regarding a good primer or overall systematic on EO?
07:34:25.180
I appreciate the EO's catechesis for new members as an anchor.
07:34:29.340
I would say just read Pomazansky's Orthodox Dogmatics.
07:34:49.840
Sup, Jay and Jay, be glad to see you both together on a panel.
07:34:53.700
I'm wondering what is it like to debate a literal nonsense Muppet two days in a row.
07:34:58.720
My brain cells are victims of a fallacy-induced genocide.
07:35:06.560
Chef 5 couldn't an argument be made that men in general will not go to the doctor for
07:35:13.000
Studies show female to male for hypochondria is 10 to 1.
07:35:28.060
Myocardial infarction often present differently between sexes.
07:35:32.520
I don't even like the chick, but she's right and doesn't need a source for common knowledge.
07:35:48.100
Women out her making face lips bigger and coochie lips smaller.
07:36:08.860
If you didn't try to act like a subject matter expert every time you open your mouth, have
07:36:16.940
There's nothing more I can say than all the times I've said I'm not an expert on things.
07:36:23.760
Eridolt hasn't read anything but Wikipedia and Destiny streams.
07:37:02.600
Even if this is granted, this would be an exception to the generality of abortions.completely bad faith.
07:37:13.820
They're always making the rule from the exception, aren't they?
07:37:22.080
The argument can be reversed and someone could ask why do you want to sexualize your 12 by allowing her to dress in a tank top.
07:37:29.680
Young boys, especially at that age, sexualize everything.
07:37:38.660
The Department of Education operates no schools and educates no children.
07:37:43.380
The fact that you thought it did is the very reason why it must be abolished.
07:37:50.980
Below the threshold, Desert Joe hung up about the tank tops.
07:38:00.640
If you're showing more skin, even if it's for yourself, you're creating an expectation in your industry for other women as well due to natural competition.
07:38:16.940
Do we have time for me to answer your infill these?
07:38:24.560
Saint, would you recommend to Brestini to actually read and contrast her radical orthodoxy, modern intellectual theology, since the word orthodoxy needs to be defined in her view?
07:39:00.500
JB brought up abortion but didn't know how to respond to Reddit theory buttons.
07:39:05.480
We all just saw his brain malfunction in real time when ectopic was brought up.
07:39:13.040
No, I was confused that you would bring that up, given that is an exception to the general rule we were arguing.
07:39:27.100
I was curious if you knew what it was and how to handle it.
07:39:36.340
See, it's very interesting to watch how the men react when people make little criticism of them versus every woman on this panel.
07:39:46.040
You just admitted that you bring up bad faith points.
07:39:47.720
No, I genuinely asked if you knew it an ectopic pregnancy and how you would handle it.
07:39:58.060
You just admitted to derailing on purpose, right?
07:40:00.720
Because I was curious if you were opposed to even those types of abortion.
07:40:13.680
If you guys notice the difference of reaction to these men when they're talking to women that they feel like they can actually manage in a debate versus a woman that they feel overwhelmed by in a debate.
07:40:23.000
She's literally just admitted that you changed the subject.
07:40:25.140
The one that talked with every other woman on this panel.
07:40:30.360
No, it's because you feel confident when you're debating people who are not trained to debate.
07:40:34.120
And you feel unconfident when you're debating me.
07:40:37.400
Reasonably with every single one of these, you're the only loudmouth babbler.
07:40:46.740
But you said that you got to treat me different on this panel very initially because I'm a debater.
07:40:54.660
You admitted that you just hated your bad faith.
07:41:08.780
Again, like I said yesterday, she is the best example of why feminism is a disaster.
07:41:18.520
As why older men have to bully women to try to get their way because you're increasingly
07:41:24.840
Your behavior this entire time has been nothing but traffic.
07:41:28.120
The reality is that when you engage with people that you feel like you can dunk on by just granting
07:41:32.080
their norms, you'll just talk to them in good faith.
07:41:36.120
However, when you engage with somebody, as admittedly by you, that you can't debate
07:41:44.740
Part of being bad faith is not granting me norms that you and I both agree on as a tactical
07:41:52.640
You're definitionally being bad faith with me in all ways.
07:41:56.420
By not granting you the debate, it's bad faith.
07:42:00.260
Wait, if you agree on a norm that you both adhere to, such as...
07:42:05.640
No, no, if you agree on a norm with me and you won't grant it to me for the sheer purpose
07:42:13.780
These 304s arguing against showing shoulders and bras, but yet want to play victims while
07:42:31.600
Chef 5, don't use the you didn't serve BS on Brian.
07:42:40.880
It's like when they're like, oh, you're just like HR.
07:42:44.660
But it's like a lot of people will say that to even jobs like mine where I like, I've fired
07:42:50.240
And it's like, okay, like, it's like they basically say that to anybody that's not
07:43:01.800
You are so hung up about about tank tops for 12 year olds spending 30 minutes arguing school
07:43:08.980
This convo proves women are not oppressed in the US.
07:43:17.880
And I see, I've never heard anyone who talks as much as you, but really says nothing.
07:43:32.380
You know, you're really smart when you go for low hanging fruit.
07:43:39.980
I'm saying fat jokes are obviously low hanging fruit.
07:43:57.140
Brian, I'm getting a group session together and seeing if you want to join.
07:44:03.060
If so you need a game score of at least seven, have a decent PPM and send your achievements
07:44:08.620
Demon Slayer, I cannot pull up your message, but I can't pull up your message, bro, but
07:44:28.040
The job of a BOG is to support the infantry, the war fighters, which aren't hard.
07:44:47.060
We all watched Chair 2 derail the conversation with a random question when nobody was talking
07:44:53.220
Now she's just refusing to admit she did it long.
07:45:12.200
Godfather, Lord of the Rings, and probably the original Star Wars.
07:45:39.020
Has anybody here not had like kind of basic fruits?
07:45:52.340
I've encountered in the recent years, I've encountered some women that haven't had certain fruits.
07:46:00.520
And I get this warm feeling inside and I'm like, I want to introduce you.
07:46:05.380
I want to be your gateway to some fucking bomb mango.
07:46:09.300
Like that just makes me happy if a girl's never had, it's not that I'm happy that she hasn't had it, but it makes me happy that I can hook her up.
07:46:30.840
Get, it is kind of just a little wholesome thing here at the end of the show.
07:46:34.280
I have encountered recently though, some women who's like, I'm like, you've never had a strawberry, son?
07:46:54.640
Wait, how many people have you met that haven't had a basic fruit?
07:46:58.580
I've met two girls who have not had like certain, no mangoes, hasn't had like the stone fruit.
07:47:07.160
So like apricot, peach, nectarine, hasn't had any of those.
07:47:25.060
They put you in the friend zone right after that.
07:47:31.760
I'm like, you're only eating fruits and here's a fucking smoothie.
07:47:36.080
And they're like, I've never tried an apple before.
07:47:48.820
Why do you feel the need to comment on everything?
07:48:01.600
Any final thoughts from any of the panelists before we wrap?
07:48:10.120
It's a little, getting a little stuffy in here.
07:48:13.940
I'd like to end the show by seeing if we can't use this moment as an opportunity to give you,
07:48:22.040
Would you consider stopping sex work entirely tonight, right now, on the whatever podcast?
07:48:49.320
Guys, if you enjoyed the stream, really quick, just open up a Twitch.
07:48:53.980
Drop us a follow and a Prime sub if you have one.
07:49:05.900
Also join our Discord, discord.gg slash whatever.
07:49:10.060
If you enjoyed the stream, also kindly like the video.
07:49:20.400
Ashley, thank you for the 10 on Cash App and Venmo.
07:49:29.140
I do want to thank you guys for tuning in tonight.
07:49:31.060
You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
07:49:33.880
I thank you to everyone who so generously supports the show by super chatting, donates, etc.
07:49:41.660
We've got Andrew Wilson in town, so we're going to be doing some debates.
07:49:47.040
We've got them lined up, so I believe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday is the next Dating
07:49:52.460
Any girls who want to be on the show, DM out whatever on Instagram if you can make it to
07:50:01.080
And I'm trying to think if there's anything we're forgetting.