Alex Jones Show - 20031224_Wed_Alex

00:00:00.000 Big Brother.

00:00:06.000 Mainstream media.

00:00:08.000 Government cover-ups.

00:00:10.000 You want answers?

00:00:12.000 Well, so does he.

00:00:13.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

00:00:17.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

00:00:25.000 Alright, my friends.

00:00:28.000 Welcome to This Christmas Eve edition of the Worldwide Transmission Against Tyranny.

00:00:38.000 It is Wednesday, the 24th of December, 2003.

00:00:43.000 We'll be live the next three hours.

00:00:46.000 We have Jack McClam, Police Against the New World Order, joining us to talk about the news and what we face in this global crime syndicate system in the next hour.

00:00:57.000 And we're going to have wide open phone.

00:01:01.000 Brace yourselves, the news is all extremely revealing as we chronicle the criminal activities of the global elite, also known as the New World Order.

00:01:12.000 Rumsfeld, bet your life, threat to U.S.

00:01:17.000 is serious.

00:01:18.000 This is the same guy that lies about weapons of mass destruction and mobile weapons trucks, but I take it very serious when the people Who were behind September 11th, and we have the evidence, are out there warning us of more terror.

00:01:32.000 They got Patriot missiles up in D.C., in New York.

00:01:36.000 They got tanks rolling around, armored vehicles.

00:01:39.000 They got aircraft in the skies, all part of training you that militarized society equals safety.

00:01:46.000 Security raids in cities, airports, trains, you name it.

00:01:50.000 They say Bin Laden's behind it.

00:01:52.000 Bin Laden's about to get us. 0.95

00:01:54.000 Why, this is the most serious it's ever been!

00:01:58.000 Meanwhile, Bush has announced what we already knew was public, a total legalization of anyone that gets here.

00:02:05.000 In fact, if you're an illegal alien, and you come here illegally, you get citizenship and a green card, and then citizenship faster than someone who came here legally.

00:02:14.000 It's total legalization.

00:02:18.000 Ridge, a few weeks ago, said they were going to do this.

00:02:20.000 Lord Bush has announced it.

00:02:22.000 Already tried it two weeks before 9-11.

00:02:25.000 ABC News, suicide bomber threat turns out to be false.

00:02:29.000 I want to go over their false terror alerts of the past.

00:02:32.000 Also, family sue.

00:02:35.000 U.S.

00:02:36.000 reject 9-11 bribe.

00:02:38.000 That's the Toronto Star headline.

00:02:41.000 U.S.

00:02:42.000 government trying to bribe the victims' families of 9-11 to keep their mouths shut.

00:02:49.000 And I'm sure you've already heard something we already knew for many years.

00:02:53.000 Colonel Craig Roberts will tell you that his father died of the human mad cow disease.

00:03:00.000 I've seen death certificates right here in Austin.

00:03:03.000 Death certificates!

00:03:06.000 I've shown them on TV.

00:03:08.000 I've read the names of people who've died from mad cow in humans right here in Austin, Texas. 0.77

00:03:15.000 Buddy.

00:03:17.000 Mad Cow meat may have been eaten, officials say.

00:03:21.000 Seven nations halt U.S. 0.59

00:03:23.000 beef imports from Asia to China to Europe.

00:03:26.000 Inspections for mad cow lag, those done abroad.

00:03:30.000 Government experts shock that meat was processed.

00:03:34.000 It goes on and on and on.

00:03:37.000 It's big agribusiness that did this.

00:03:40.000 98% of the beef is totally safe and it's raised on ranches and farms, but it's the big agribusiness feedlots that have done this and it's still going on and this will destroy millions of families, millions of individuals, hundreds if not thousands of communities if it continues.

00:04:03.000 My family pays the property tax, pays for everything with cows in East Texas.

00:04:10.000 And, you know, they're land-rich, money-poor, and without the cows, or with the price going to drop, it's just horrible.

00:04:18.000 So we'll go over that also.

00:04:19.000 U.S.

00:04:20.000 reports first case again of mad cow disease.

00:04:21.000 We'll be going over that.

00:04:22.000 It is not the first case, folks.

00:04:25.000 This is where they were unable to cover it up, and it actually made it into the news.

00:04:29.000 Very convenient timing.

00:04:32.000 China cracks down on unofficial worship.

00:04:35.000 They've got their mobile death bands out doing their jobs.

00:04:40.000 Get into Israel's nuclear program. 0.51

00:04:44.000 It's all coming up here on the show, ladies and gentlemen, today.

00:04:49.000 So you'll definitely want to stay with us.

00:04:53.000 We'll be back on the other side.

00:04:54.000 The websites are InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com.

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00:07:00.000 Hey folks, Alex Jones here announcing the release of my most comprehensive documentary exposing the New World Order's orchestration of the September 11th attacks yet.

00:07:08.000 In my new film, The Masters of Terror, we chronicle the globalist master plan for world domination.

00:07:13.000 The Masters of Terror details how the elite are using manufactured terrorism to drive the world population into accepting tyranny.

00:07:19.000 Witness in horror the execution of the September 11th attacks and the ensuing whitewash.

00:07:23.000 The casual society control grid, infallible microchips, mass mind control, militarization of police, concentration camps, foreign troops massing on U.S.

00:07:31.000 soil, the USA Patriot Act, Super Big Brother Total Information Awareness Network, and much, much more.

00:07:35.000 It is absolutely vital that everyone see the masters of terror.

00:07:38.000 Only by exposing the perpetrators of September 11th can we stop them from carrying out the next wave of attacks and destroying our constitutional republic.

00:07:45.000 Order online now at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling 1-888-253-3139.

00:07:53.000 That's 888-253-3139.

00:08:02.000 From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.

00:08:08.000 It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

00:08:13.000 We have a man who's been fighting the globalist crime syndicate for over 20 years.

00:08:19.000 Joining us in the next hour, one of my favorite guests, Jack McClam, police and military against the New World Order.

00:08:27.000 You don't want to miss that in the next hour.

00:08:30.000 And he'll be able, of course, to talk about all the news we're going to be covering.

00:08:33.000 We're going to have open phones here on this Christmas Eve edition of the World Wide Transmission that you'll be able to tune back in on Friday.

00:08:44.000 I'm going to have a rebroadcast then of this show and I guess hear yourself on the air.

00:08:49.000 There is so much to cover.

00:08:53.000 We have mad cow disease, which has already been here for over a decade.

00:08:57.000 They've covered it up.

00:08:58.000 Again, I've seen the death certificates.

00:09:00.000 Of the spongiform encephalopathy.

00:09:03.000 People dying from it.

00:09:05.000 I've seen death certificates of people I know here at Austin, Texas.

00:09:10.000 For at least, what, three years?

00:09:11.000 I've seen several death certificates.

00:09:14.000 This is hushed up real quick.

00:09:15.000 People get visits by men in black outfits, black suits, telling them they better keep their mouths shut. 0.99

00:09:22.000 They tell hospitals, shut your mouths. 1.00

00:09:26.000 Very, very serious issue.

00:09:30.000 And again I mentioned in the first segment Colonel Craig Roberts says his father died from this.

00:09:35.000 A lot of people have I have seen this type of stuff develop.

00:09:45.000 I need to get Colonel Roberts back on covering that subject because I'm going back in memory.

00:09:50.000 We did a show about two years ago.

00:09:51.000 It may not have been his father.

00:09:53.000 Was it his mother?

00:09:54.000 The point is I hate to speculate and my memory is failing me there.

00:09:58.000 I ought to call Colonel Roberts up and have him on about that in the third hour of his home.

00:10:03.000 That's a good idea.

00:10:04.000 I don't want to be announcing family members have died and get it wrong.

00:10:07.000 Occasionally my memory fails me, but I know we've had Craig on to talk about that and talk about the medical records, but I know people here in Austin.

00:10:15.000 I have held, I have held the death certificate.

00:10:18.000 I have seen it myself.

00:10:21.000 Rumsfeld, bet your life threat to US is serious.

00:10:26.000 The Pentagon on Tuesday conducted an exercise to prepare for a terror attack and Widened warplane patrols around the United States amid fresh concern about threats to nuclear power plants and other vital infrastructure facilities.

00:10:45.000 Two days after the U.S.

00:10:46.000 government raised its terror alert to the second-highest level, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld emphasized the gravity of the threat.

00:10:54.000 You ask, is it serious?

00:10:55.000 Yes, you bet your life people don't do that unless it is a serious situation, Rumsfeld told a Pentagon briefing.

00:11:05.000 Well, Mr. Rumsfeld, you've been caught lying.

00:11:08.000 Almost everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie, or a fabrication, or a twisting.

00:11:14.000 And I have a whole stack of mainstream news articles where the CIA and the FBI say they've been ordered to put out fake terror alerts to, quote, create fear and hysteria.

00:11:25.000 The White House Press Secretary, months before he resigned, admitted, yeah, these terror alerts are being put out for political effect.

00:11:37.000 Why did Ari Fleischer admit that? 0.98

00:11:40.000 That's an amazing, amazing admission.

00:11:44.000 Rumsfeld, bet your life, threat to U.S.

00:11:47.000 is serious.

00:11:49.000 And now they're saying they think they're a commercial airline, pilots who are about to attack us any minute from inside the cockpits and the armored doors are only going to help them.

00:11:59.000 They've got the military out, they've got the missiles out, the Patriot missile batteries out, saying, oh, we didn't do this before 9-11, but now we are.

00:12:07.000 Oh, but you sure did about a year before 9-11 in Genoa, Italy, didn't you?

00:12:11.000 You had the missiles on top of the roofs there.

00:12:15.000 Then you claimed you'd never heard of a plan to fly planes into buildings.

00:12:19.000 No, we just have hundreds of news articles that would have been announced years before 9-11.

00:12:25.000 So what do you think about this terror alert?

00:12:26.000 They're saying this is more serious than ever and why everybody's afraid and we're all in deep trouble.

00:12:32.000 What are we going to do?

00:12:34.000 Well, what are you going to do?

00:12:37.000 And have you begun to realize who's really behind these terror attacks and why they're doing this?

00:12:42.000 Report!

00:12:43.000 Bin Laden behind terror threat!

00:12:46.000 Intelligence indicates Osama al-Zahari approved plans to hijack foreign airliners.

00:12:52.000 Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and his chief deputy.

00:12:57.000 Zahari approved the terror plans that led U.S. 0.97

00:13:00.000 officials to raise the threat level and heighten security through the holidays, intelligence officials told NBC News.

00:13:07.000 But wait a minute!

00:13:09.000 Back on Friday they found the white powder on Pennsylvania Avenue in D.C.

00:13:15.000 They said there was a female suicide bomber planning to attack the Statue of Liberty.

00:13:19.000 Turns out those were totally fake and false, and no one will say where the threats came from, but they weren't accurate.

00:13:26.000 Again, more of this fear-mongering going on.

00:13:29.000 According to the report, U.S. 0.53

00:13:30.000 intelligence has gathered details about the attack plans, which they say include Al-Qaeda operatives hijacking foreign airliners and flying them into targets in the U.S.

00:13:40.000 The information even includes some specific flight numbers.

00:13:45.000 And the Pentagon is stepping up air patrols.

00:13:47.000 Oh, you had air patrols for Payne Stewart, the golfer, 18 minutes after he was off course.

00:13:52.000 He was surrounded by five F-16s.

00:13:57.000 But the most controlled corridor in the world, the DC-New York corridor, it took an hour and 25 minutes until you did anything.

00:14:06.000 Also, immigration reform, reform, folks, on Bush agenda.

00:14:11.000 And how are they going to reform it?

00:14:13.000 Total legalization of anyone that can get here.

00:14:18.000 And this is out of the Washington Post.

00:14:19.000 They are praising Bush for this, saying how wonderful it is, and admitting that it will make every illegal that's here, every illegal that gets here, totally legal.

00:14:30.000 You get here, you get a green card, you get IDs, you get welfare.

00:14:38.000 You think we've got a lot of illegal aliens here from Latin America and China and the Middle East and Eastern Europe?

00:14:44.000 Folks, you haven't seen anything yet.

00:14:48.000 This is the Pan American Union.

00:14:49.000 We'll be going over that in a few minutes.

00:14:51.000 I wanted to go back over these false terror alerts from Friday.

00:14:55.000 ABC News suicide bomber threat turns out to be false.

00:14:59.000 America suffered a spasm of fear and alarm yesterday as two reports of terrorist activity rapidly gained credibility.

00:15:06.000 The discovery of white powder on Pennsylvania Avenue pavement outside the White House caused a serious concern and Central Washington to be cordoned off by police who put in process a full-scale terrorist alert.

00:15:20.000 Tests found that it was substance was harmless.

00:15:23.000 Also in New York, the stock market dipped because they thought it was a female suicide bomber.

00:15:29.000 Turns out that was totally false.

00:15:31.000 Going back, this is from World Daily.

00:15:34.000 Terror alerts manufactured.

00:15:35.000 FBI agents say White House scripting hysterics for political effect.

00:15:39.000 Intelligence pros say White House is manufacturing terrorist alerts to keep the issue alive in the minds of voters and to keep President Bush's approval ratings high.

00:15:48.000 Capitol Hill Blue reported.

00:15:50.000 And then I have the Associated Press, BBC, ABC News, Fox News, in the terror alert, fake terror alert archive of PrisonPlanet.com.

00:16:03.000 You can go read that.

00:16:04.000 You ought to email that link around to people so they can see the truth for themselves.

00:16:08.000 But Rumsfeld says, we never put out fake reports.

00:16:11.000 We never put out false information.

00:16:14.000 You should trust us and bet your life on it.

00:16:18.000 You're in deep trouble.

00:16:22.000 Funny, the more liberty we give up, the more Homeland Security gets control of our lives, the bigger the threats, the bigger the attack.

00:16:28.000 Better give up all your rights.

00:16:30.000 The Toronto Star is reporting, family sue, U.S.

00:16:34.000 reject 9-11 bribe is the headline.

00:16:38.000 Ignore deadline for compensation payouts, average 1.8 million.

00:16:44.000 For some, it's blood money, a repugnant payoff they feel they have no choice but to accept.

00:16:49.000 For a handful of others, oh hundreds and hundreds, the process of claiming compensation is too painful.

00:16:54.000 They find themselves paralyzed by grief and unable to reopen, emotional wounds barely healed from the deaths of their loved ones in September 11th terrorist attacks.

00:17:04.000 But as many as 73 families see the process of the U.S.

00:17:06.000 government compensation as an attempt to protect those who should be held accountable for what they believe was mass murder.

00:17:13.000 They ignored a midnight deadline last night, their last chance to apply for the government cash.

00:17:19.000 And today they began a new stage in the arduous odyssey and will sue their government airlines and state and local authorities.

00:17:28.000 By the way, we've had Stanley Hilton on, and he represents 400 of the families.

00:17:34.000 400 of the families.

00:17:35.000 We've had other people who are suing on, and their lawyers on, talking about government involvement in 9-11.

00:17:44.000 And the Red Cross, United Way got caught pressuring families.

00:17:48.000 Remember they raised billions, over a billion and a half dollars.

00:17:51.000 They wouldn't give it to families unless they signed waivers.

00:17:55.000 Why would they have a dog in that fight?

00:17:57.000 You can't have the money unless you say you won't sue the government.

00:18:00.000 And that was money you sent in thinking it would go to the families.

00:18:02.000 Most of them never got anything, folks.

00:18:05.000 But a lot of it did go to gun control groups, again, as I warned you it would.

00:18:09.000 This may be uncharted waters, but I was thrown into a pool on September 11, 2001.

00:18:13.000 Had to learn to swim, said Monica Gabrielle, who lost her husband Richard in the World Trade Center attack.

00:18:19.000 I'm doing this for my husband.

00:18:21.000 He was a gentleman and he was alive trying to get out of that building that day.

00:18:25.000 The dead, the dying, the smoke, the tear.

00:18:27.000 No one should have suffered like that.

00:18:29.000 I want accountability.

00:18:30.000 By the way, unnamed voices were on the speakers saying, everyone stay where you are.

00:18:36.000 You'll get in trouble if you leave.

00:18:38.000 Do not cause a panic.

00:18:39.000 Stay at your desk.

00:18:41.000 Meanwhile, some of the executives of the companies that were in the towers were on bullhorns.

00:18:46.000 Get out of the building!

00:18:47.000 Firefighters were in there.

00:18:48.000 Get out! 0.98

00:18:49.000 The voices, stay where you are.

00:18:49.000 Get out!

00:18:51.000 Stay right there.

00:18:52.000 Stay right there.

00:18:54.000 And that's on the record, folks.

00:18:57.000 Stay right there.

00:18:57.000 Everything's fine.

00:18:58.000 Everything's fine.

00:18:59.000 It's two buildings are smoking.

00:19:02.000 But they'd evacuate those buildings again for some white powder on the ground, which the feds do to scare people.

00:19:07.000 Almost every federal courthouse in the country gets this white powder yearly to scare everyone.

00:19:13.000 So sick.

00:19:15.000 Mad cow meat may have been eaten, officials say, from Reuters.

00:19:20.000 Meat from a cow with a deadly mad cow disease may have already been eaten, possibly in the form of hamburger.

00:19:27.000 Washington State Deputy Director of Agriculture Bill Brookson said Tuesday, asked at a press conference if it was possible that the meat had already been consumed.

00:19:39.000 Brookson replied, it is possible.

00:19:41.000 Seven nations halt U.S. 0.59

00:19:43.000 beef imports.

00:19:44.000 We'll go over that when we get back and we'll take your calls.

00:19:49.000 Toll free.

00:19:50.000 At 1-800-259-9231.

00:19:50.000 There's this news and a lot more coming up.

00:19:53.000 9, 9231. There's this news and a lot more coming up. You'll want to stay with us.

00:20:01.000 The United States seems to be celebrating over its triumph of reducing government debt.

00:20:05.000 But the truth be told, public and private debt increased to a record high in 1999, reaching a peak of $14.8 trillion, marking 10.57% annual increase, outpacing its previous 10 years.

00:20:18.000 The U.S.

00:20:18.000 economy receives its currency by taking on debt through private banking institution called the Federal Reserve System.

00:20:24.000 In the year 2000, debt growth collapsed to only 4.5%.

00:20:28.000 It's bad enough that the U.S.

00:20:29.000 citizens is bound by debt in order to have commerce.

00:20:32.000 However, shocking the economy with the reduction of this magnitude could wipe out years of growth in a stock portfolio.

00:20:39.000 Before you make your next investment decision, get the cold hard facts.

00:20:42.000 Call 1-800-686-2237 for your free report on the outstanding level of public and private debt.

00:20:49.000 You must understand how recession and depression are driven by outstanding debt.

00:20:53.000 Call 1-800-686-2237.

00:20:56.000 That's 1-800-686-2237.

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00:23:56.000 The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents the Alex Jones Show.

00:24:08.000 Because there's a war on for your mind.

00:24:15.000 Alright, your calls are coming up here in just a few minutes.

00:24:28.000 We've got a real treat for you today.

00:24:29.000 We're going to have Jack McClam on in about 35 minutes.

00:24:32.000 Police against the New World Order.

00:24:35.000 And then simultaneously at about 1230, that is central time in the middle of the show, I'm going to have Colonel Craig Roberts on with him and both those guys together and myself on air for the rest of the show and taking your calls.

00:24:49.000 So this should be extremely interesting and informative and dynamic listening coming up.

00:24:56.000 In the next two and a half hours, we're about to go to Mike and Ed and Clint and Charles and everybody else that's patiently holding.

00:25:03.000 The toll free number to join us on air is 1-800-259-9231.

00:25:07.000 Now understand, I love American agriculture.

00:25:13.000 My family makes their living off of ranching in East Texas.

00:25:18.000 Most of the beef in this country is the best in the world.

00:25:21.000 But in Europe and in the US, they started the practice decades ago of feeding rotten, decomposing animal parts.

00:25:29.000 Cows, horses, dead goats, you name it.

00:25:33.000 Dogs, cats, they throw it all into a big mix.

00:25:36.000 Chew it up into this protein meal.

00:25:39.000 And blood meal and other things that they feed to the cows.

00:25:43.000 Now a cow isn't meant to eat meat, folks. 1.00

00:25:46.000 Much less rotten meat or meat from its own species.

00:25:52.000 And so this stuff got into the food supply.

00:25:55.000 And now you've got all this weird Alzheimer's and all these new types of diseases, brain degenerative diseases.

00:26:05.000 I just called Craig Roberts.

00:26:07.000 It was his wife's grandmother and he had another friend whose father died of it.

00:26:12.000 So he's had a family member die of it and he's had friends whose parents have died from it.

00:26:19.000 I knew years ago he talked about that on the air.

00:26:21.000 I couldn't remember the details.

00:26:23.000 I'm sort of just blurting out this info, why I have no idea.

00:26:26.000 I'm the first to tell you folks, I catch myself, sometimes we get bad info in our brains and just hope I don't have the mad cow.

00:26:33.000 Okay, it's just a joke.

00:26:35.000 But the point is, is that it's horrible.

00:26:40.000 I mean, most of the beef in this country is raised properly.

00:26:44.000 It's raised out in fields, eating grass.

00:26:47.000 Okay, and you give them some grain or range cubes in the winter. 0.94

00:26:51.000 But these feedlots, and the stuff they're feeding cows at these feedlots, is ridiculous.

00:26:57.000 It's out of control.

00:26:59.000 And I've seen death certificates here in Austin.

00:27:01.000 Okay, I've had people I know whose mothers and fathers have died, and they bring me the death certificate from the local hospital, and it says that they died of this spongiform encephalopathy.

00:27:13.000 It's scary stuff!

00:27:17.000 And so by not admitting it, by not stopping feeding them the blood products, that's still going on, folks.

00:27:24.000 Still going on.

00:27:26.000 And by covering it up, then the feds are going to get to come in and regulate the small farm, the small ranch, and you better believe big agribusiness is going to get even worse.

00:27:36.000 These are the people, this is the FDA that has authorized radiating your children's poultry, pork, and beef.

00:27:47.000 For the school lunch program.

00:27:48.000 These are the people that ship in the raspberries and strawberries sprayed in human excrement for fertilizer out of Mexico and thousands of children get hepatitis B and C. It's admitted, but never a major issue.

00:28:02.000 They could care less about you.

00:28:05.000 And there's major news articles, Associated Press, Rocky Mountain News, BBC, Reuters, where the Food and Drug Administration has been covering up the mad cow.

00:28:19.000 Colonel Roberts is going to talk about that with us.

00:28:22.000 And we're talking about the police state and the terror alerts and the general saying we need martial law and all this with Jack McClam and of course, Colonel Craig Roberts, both of them military veterans, both of them, veteran retired police officers.

00:28:37.000 Both of them injured in the line of duty, SWAT team commanders, helicopter pilots, most highly decorated on the Phoenix Police Department.

00:28:47.000 That's Jack McClam, Colonel Roberts, amazing guys.

00:28:51.000 We're going to come back though and go to calls here after I finish up with the Mad Cow News.

00:28:54.000 Mad Cow meat may have been eaten! 0.98

00:28:58.000 And that's the State Deputy Director of Agriculture, There in Washington State, seven nations halt U.S.

00:29:04.000 beef imports.

00:29:05.000 That was as of last night.

00:29:07.000 Now I'm reading that it's more undetermined numbers.

00:29:10.000 Japan and South Korea halted imports of U.S.

00:29:14.000 beef on Wednesday after the cow in Washington State tested positive for mad cow disease, depriving American exporters of two of their largest overseas markets.

00:29:25.000 Inspections for Mad Cow lag.

00:29:27.000 Those done abroad, that's the New York Times.

00:29:30.000 CU expert shocked that meat was processed.

00:29:33.000 Russia considers banning imports of U.S.

00:29:36.000 Europe's banning it.

00:29:36.000 beef.

00:29:38.000 USDA refused to release Mad Cow records.

00:29:42.000 I'm gonna try to hit on this and we'll go to your calls and just a bunch of other news on the other side.

00:29:47.000 InfoWars.com.

00:29:51.000 We're on the march.

00:29:52.000 The Empire's on the run.

00:29:55.000 Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

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00:32:00.000 Are you one of the millions who suffer from arthritis or chronic back pain?

00:32:03.000 Michael Trudeau here.

00:32:04.000 I speak from personal experience when I say living with either one isn't any fun.

00:32:07.000 You see, a little over 20 years ago, I was involved in a car accident.

00:32:11.000 That injured some vertebrae and discs in my back.

00:32:13.000 The damage led to degenerative arthritis in my upper back and neck.

00:32:16.000 I tried physical therapy and chiropractors for years, usually with little or no positive results.

00:32:21.000 The chronic everyday pain was miserable.

00:32:23.000 Many friends offered advice on how to get relief, and I humored most, again with little or no success, until my friend Cliff Scott recommended his MSM. 0.51

00:32:30.000 He said it was all natural and worked to relieve inflammation.

00:32:33.000 Once again, albeit reluctantly, I took another friend's advice.

00:32:36.000 Only this time it changed my life.

00:32:37.000 After six weeks, I noticed some improvement.

00:32:39.000 And after 12 weeks, measurable improvement.

00:32:42.000 That was two years ago, and I've been taking MSM ever since.

00:32:44.000 And today, my quality of life has improved dramatically.

00:32:47.000 Side effects?

00:32:48.000 Yeah, my knee used to bug me, and that's better now too.

00:32:50.000 Call Kliscott Enterprises at 800-569-4340.

00:32:51.000 That's 1-800-569-4340.

00:32:52.000 If you're suffering, try MSM. 1.00

00:32:52.000 That's 1-800-569-4340. 1.00

00:32:57.000 If you're suffering, try MSM. 1.00

00:32:59.000 It worked for me.

00:33:08.000 Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

00:33:15.000 I was just talking to Mark who runs the show during the breaks.

00:33:21.000 I talked to him and he was saying, yeah, why would they, who started this practice of feeding cows, dead cows, dead sheep, dead dogs, dead cats.

00:33:31.000 Oh yeah, in England there's video of them throwing every type of dead animal you can imagine.

00:33:37.000 Animals that were euthanized, you name it, in these big vats and they just grind them up and turn them into this protein meal.

00:33:46.000 Then you feed an animal that doesn't eat meat, rotten meat.

00:33:52.000 Now a dog can eat rotten meat, folks, because they're designed to do it.

00:33:57.000 They have a stomach that can do it. 0.99

00:33:58.000 Cats can do it.

00:33:59.000 But herbivores can't even eat meat, period.

00:34:03.000 Then you feed them rotten meat, folks.

00:34:07.000 Now, herbivores, that's what humans are. 0.97

00:34:10.000 Or, excuse me, omnivores is what humans are.

00:34:14.000 We can eat meat, we can eat plants, we can eat it all.

00:34:18.000 But still, these prions do pass through the digestive process, do get into the bloodstream, do lodge in the brain that is made up of water and cholesterol.

00:34:31.000 And they just stick in there and start growing and rotting holes in your brain, just like the aluminum does it.

00:34:37.000 Just like the fluoride does it, just lots of stuff in our environment that goes into the oil-based brain tissue and wreaks havoc.

00:34:49.000 And so now seven nations, seven nations including two of the biggest beef exporters, importers I should say, that we export to, Japan and South Korea.

00:35:05.000 And by the way, I've seen articles before where they find Mad Cow in this country.

00:35:08.000 It'll show up in the Associated Press and then suddenly the Fed say, oh, false alarm.

00:35:13.000 Why now are they admitting something that we've always known about?

00:35:19.000 Why is that happening?

00:35:23.000 And now Mexico is saying they're not going to accept our leave.

00:35:31.000 You know what this has done?

00:35:32.000 Do you know what Mad Cow has done in England. Mad cow reduced the prices of cattle

00:35:40.000 by about half and then porting down bio weapons laboratory four years ago publicly a keyword

00:35:49.000 released foot and mouth they say by accident only a few hundred cows and sheep got it but they

00:35:56.000 killed eight million sheep four million cows and I predicted that the government would

00:36:02.000 not allow people to restock their animals claiming that well you had too many cows and

00:36:06.000 sheep to begin with you're hurting the environment with their methane ejections and their flatulence

00:36:13.000 and also the runoff from their uh their release

00:36:18.000 So what do you think about them apples, folks?

00:36:29.000 And how is this going to affect our economy?

00:36:32.000 I know it's going to hurt my family who makes their living, who pays their outrageous property taxes with the cows they sell every single year.

00:36:47.000 And I want to ask you, are you going to go enjoy that hamburger?

00:36:50.000 Are you going to continue to eat beef?

00:36:56.000 I mean, I've known about this for years and I still eat it.

00:36:59.000 Because it tastes so good.

00:37:01.000 Again, am I going to get Parkinson's disease, which has exploded now?

00:37:06.000 Am I going to get Alzheimer's?

00:37:08.000 I mean, they've got people who are 30 years old now going, oh, you've got Alzheimer's.

00:37:13.000 I got that guy on that show, Frazier.

00:37:16.000 He's like 45 years old.

00:37:17.000 Can hardly remember his name now.

00:37:19.000 Can't remember his lines.

00:37:21.000 He's got Alzheimer's.

00:37:24.000 Let's go ahead and go to the calls.

00:37:26.000 We'll get back into the terror alerts and the new 9-11 developments and China with mobile death vans killing Christians.

00:37:33.000 Oh, it's interesting news today.

00:37:36.000 Mike in Illinois.

00:37:37.000 Thanks for holding her on the air.

00:37:38.000 Go ahead.

00:37:39.000 Hey, Alex.

00:37:39.000 How are you doing?

00:37:40.000 Good, sir.

00:37:41.000 I'm supposed to have primer for Christmas dinner tomorrow, and I'm rethinking what I want to do with that.

00:37:46.000 Well, generally, they're selling the sick... Here's the problem with beef.

00:37:51.000 People usually sell their sick cows.

00:37:54.000 And they keep their cows that aren't sick.

00:37:57.000 And so these feedlots will sell their sick cows. 0.99

00:38:00.000 And that goes right into your hamburger.

00:38:02.000 Right.

00:38:03.000 So prime rib probably ain't bad.

00:38:06.000 Let me ask you a question, Alex.

00:38:08.000 You know, they're poisoning our water with fluoride, poisoning our brains with aspartame and diet pop and all that.

00:38:15.000 And obviously everything under the sun, we're being affected by it.

00:38:21.000 I mean, basically, what are we going to do?

00:38:22.000 I know this is an information war.

00:38:24.000 I want to get out the information to everybody, but as an aware person, what are we supposed to do?

00:38:30.000 Do we live in a cave?

00:38:31.000 We don't know what to eat.

00:38:32.000 You go to a store that sells organic vegetables, and really, how organic are they?

00:38:37.000 You talked about how many times this stuff is made with grasshopper DNA and all that.

00:38:43.000 Yeah, they got cockroach in the major tomatoes.

00:38:47.000 They got salmon genes in most corn now.

00:38:50.000 Human genes in pigs we're eating.

00:38:52.000 Folks, this is admitted.

00:38:55.000 Spider genes are in a bunch of different things.

00:38:58.000 This is happening.

00:38:59.000 And the big pharmacological, big agribusiness companies, executives have said, we're going to introduce it into the food chain and then you won't have a choice.

00:39:08.000 Everyone will just have to accept it.

00:39:11.000 And then the new plants they're putting out take over the other varieties of the same plant, for they can't produce seeds that produce plants.

00:39:19.000 So they're stopping the life cycle.

00:39:22.000 They're patenting and blocking and damming up the life cycle for total monopoly control.

00:39:28.000 I mean, do you realize how dastardly this is?

00:39:31.000 It's horrible, Alex.

00:39:32.000 You know what?

00:39:32.000 If they can't get you one way, they're going to get you through one other way.

00:39:35.000 You've got to drink and you've got to eat.

00:39:37.000 So they can get you that way.

00:39:39.000 Well, that's why you gotta filter your water.

00:39:41.000 That's why you, I mean, we do go buy organic beef and right here at the Central Market and the Whole Foods, they will tell you where it came from.

00:39:53.000 I know the ranches and farms that beef's coming from.

00:39:56.000 I know where they grow their tomatoes.

00:39:59.000 They list this now because people are demanding it and you can get organic food.

00:40:06.000 Right?

00:40:07.000 I guess the only way we can do it, Alex, is just get the information out there.

00:40:10.000 I mean, let me ask you, Alex, what do we do?

00:40:12.000 I mean, do you just not eat the beef?

00:40:14.000 I mean, you just go organic, right?

00:40:16.000 That's really all you could do.

00:40:17.000 There is organic beef, there's organic eggs, there's organic poultry, there's organic pork, there's organic lamb, and by the way, Cheetos just came out with organic.

00:40:27.000 Now, I don't believe for a minute that it's really organic, but the point is, they're trying to sell this to you now because, I'm telling you, Twenty, thirty percent, depending on what numbers I look at, are now going organic.

00:40:37.000 We're forcing them, by moving against them, to start offering this.

00:40:43.000 So, they're definitely feeling the sting of people's awareness now.

00:40:49.000 No, Alex, that's the issue with Washington State.

00:40:52.000 It's probably just they got out to the wrong people and they had to make it... That's exactly it, okay?

00:40:58.000 There have been many other cases where a cow is convulsing all over the place, they go test it, it has the mad cow, and then suddenly you hear it many times it's been announced and they say, oh, it was a false alarm.

00:41:09.000 What they do is they go into hospitals and the doctor will diagnose a human with this and then they're told to shut up because the entire hospital would have to be destroyed.

00:41:20.000 Because you can't get rid of these prions.

00:41:21.000 You can't get them off the instruments.

00:41:24.000 And so they will give you a false diagnosis.

00:41:26.000 But I have seen cases where they do give the proper diagnosis and then it's just hushed up.

00:41:32.000 So there's a lot of this going on.

00:41:34.000 So the idea is you don't eat a McDonald's, you eat organic beef.

00:41:37.000 I do eat the cage-free eggs, Alex.

00:41:39.000 I don't know if you've probably heard of those.

00:41:40.000 They're brown.

00:41:41.000 Yeah, range-fed.

00:41:42.000 Well, they taste ten times better.

00:41:44.000 Yeah, of course they are.

00:41:45.000 I had them for the first time a couple weeks ago.

00:41:47.000 My brother had them.

00:41:48.000 He says they're fantastic.

00:41:49.000 I've been eating range-fed.

00:41:51.000 My mother would go to a health food store. 0.82

00:41:53.000 This has been going on for 30 years.

00:41:55.000 And buy those brown eggs.

00:41:56.000 I eat a white egg.

00:41:57.000 It tastes like, folks, organic, on organic tomato.

00:42:01.000 On organic squash.

00:42:04.000 Taste so much better.

00:42:06.000 It tastes like something you grew in your backyard.

00:42:08.000 Yeah, it's unbelievable, Alex.

00:42:09.000 And then you want to grow your vegetables in your backyard.

00:42:11.000 I live in Illinois.

00:42:12.000 It's good farming, good soil here for corn and whatnot.

00:42:14.000 You want to grow your own vegetables and you got to worry about the fallout from chemtrails.

00:42:18.000 So they get you anywhere they can, Alex.

00:42:20.000 Thanks for the call.

00:42:21.000 I appreciate it.

00:42:22.000 Ed in Colorado.

00:42:23.000 Go ahead.

00:42:23.000 You're on the air.

00:42:26.000 Welcome.

00:42:27.000 This is Ed in Canada.

00:42:28.000 Okay, well a little closer to Mark, go ahead.

00:42:31.000 Okay, a few days ago you were ranting about the alleged torture of Saddam Hussein. 0.91

00:42:38.000 It didn't bother me personally because I believe an eye for an eye for these bloody dictators and mass murderers.

00:42:47.000 But then some caller mentioned Rabbi Jacob Spivak, who is in favor of torture, and he wanted to debate you.

00:42:57.000 Remember that?

00:42:58.000 Well, no, I said that I'm going to try to contact him and have him on.

00:43:01.000 He has his own shortwave show every night, and I... Okay, sir, I'm not going to sit here and plug other shows.

00:43:07.000 Let me just stop you for a second.

00:43:07.000 No, no.

00:43:09.000 Let's cover what you brought up first, Ed in Canada, okay?

00:43:14.000 Are you listening?

00:43:16.000 Now let's cover what you said first.

00:43:19.000 Now let me explain this Saddam Hussein thing for everybody. 0.99

00:43:22.000 Saddam Hussein is a wicked devil. 0.99

00:43:25.000 I stand against Saddam Hussein. 0.96

00:43:29.000 Saddam Hussein, this is admitted, this is Republican congressional reports, this is not my opinion.

00:43:34.000 Alfonso Mata had a huge report in 94 on this.

00:43:38.000 He was hired in 54.

00:43:40.000 As a CIA assassin to kill communists. 0.98

00:43:43.000 Yes, I know. 0.99

00:43:44.000 Let me, let me, let me finish.

00:43:45.000 Because, you know, this isn't just sound bites here, and then I'll let you talk.

00:43:50.000 Then, in the late 60s, he was put in as the head of the Baathist security apparatus.

00:43:55.000 In the late 70s, he became the dictator of that country.

00:43:59.000 He was publicly funded and told to attack Iran, given the weapons by our government. 0.58

00:44:04.000 That's mainstream news.

00:44:05.000 Then, April Gillaspie, in 1990, six days before he invaded Kuwait, the U.S.

00:44:10.000 Ambassador told him, We're on your side.

00:44:12.000 We have a treaty with you.

00:44:13.000 Not Kuwait. 0.97

00:44:14.000 Do whatever you want.

00:44:15.000 We won't get involved.

00:44:16.000 This is on videotape.

00:44:17.000 He invaded.

00:44:18.000 So, let me explain something to you. 0.98

00:44:20.000 If I walk up to you and I punch you in the face, Ed in Canada... 0.98

00:44:25.000 My fist doesn't get punished, my brain does. 0.98

00:44:29.000 My body, the person Alex Jones, gets punished. 0.95

00:44:33.000 Saddam Hussein was the fist, and to watch the Bushes and the neocons sit there and go, look we've punished our evil fist, oh aren't we good, is a disgusting joke.

00:44:45.000 Now, we never tortured people in the past, we shouldn't begin torturing now, because then we become Joseph Mingala.

00:44:53.000 Now, torture is un-American, unscriptural, and bad.

00:44:57.000 Do you want... Now, you go ahead and make your point now.

00:44:59.000 Well, first of all, Saddam got his weapons mostly from the French and the Germans. 0.61

00:45:05.000 And some from us.

00:45:05.000 That's not true.

00:45:07.000 Not true.

00:45:07.000 They got them from us and the Russians.

00:45:09.000 And the Russians. 0.79

00:45:13.000 Well, he got the nerve gas, the botulism, the anthrax, the VX, uh, the West Nile from the United States government.

00:45:20.000 And there's no doubt about the atrocities he committed.

00:45:24.000 No doubt about it.

00:45:25.000 Oh, really?

00:45:26.000 But North Korea's good, let's give them nuclear reactors, and let's cut Taiwan loose to Communist China that's killed conservatively. 0.95

00:45:33.000 Conservatively, conservatively, 50 times what Saddam Hussein's ever killed.

00:45:38.000 We also supported Joseph Stalin, remember?

00:45:41.000 Yes.

00:45:42.000 So, anyway, this rabbi just wanted to contact you.

00:45:46.000 He said yesterday he tried it four or five times to get a hold of you, and you would not respond to his phone calls.

00:45:55.000 He says you don't have the guts to debate him.

00:45:59.000 Well, I was nice and respectful about the person on the show.

00:46:02.000 I've never even heard him.

00:46:03.000 I don't know who he is, but I wrote down the name and was planning after the... Hold on a minute.

00:46:08.000 Put him on hold.

00:46:10.000 Hold on just a second.

00:46:13.000 Now, this is two days ago, okay?

00:46:17.000 And I've not been contacted by anybody.

00:46:19.000 Okay?

00:46:20.000 Maybe I've got an email I've missed or something.

00:46:22.000 But I respectfully said I'd like to debate that person.

00:46:24.000 I'd like to hear, you know, discussion.

00:46:26.000 I'm sure he's a nice person.

00:46:27.000 And then you call up blabbering about how, you know, you want to torture Saddam and how I'm afraid to debate people.

00:46:34.000 I'm the one.

00:46:35.000 He didn't say he wanted to debate me. 0.78

00:46:36.000 I'm the one you pee on.

00:46:38.000 Excuse me, I'm not going to get mean here.

00:46:40.000 Thanks for the call, Ed.

00:46:42.000 I'm the one that said I'd like to have a discussion with this person.

00:46:46.000 So, that's just classic.

00:46:49.000 Let me give you the number to my office.

00:46:50.000 You can give the person this number.

00:46:52.000 I won't be in for the next few days.

00:46:54.000 I'm going to spend time with my family, but I'll call them after the New Year.

00:46:57.000 It's, or before the New Year.

00:46:58.000 I'll be back next week.

00:46:59.000 It's 512-291-5750.

00:46:59.000 512-291-5750.

00:47:00.000 Okay?

00:47:04.000 512-291-5750.

00:47:08.000 Okay? 1.00

00:47:09.000 And just everything you were saying, Ed, was a bunch of garbage. 0.99

00:47:13.000 Okay? 0.98

00:47:14.000 I'm the one that said I'd like to have a discussion with this person.

00:47:18.000 I'm the one who talked about having a debate, and I haven't been contacted, or I've been missed the contact.

00:47:24.000 So yes, I'm afraid.

00:47:26.000 I'm afraid of debating people.

00:47:28.000 I cower in fear.

00:47:30.000 That's what I'm known for.

00:47:32.000 Torture is wrong.

00:47:34.000 Torture is bad.

00:47:35.000 Okay?

00:47:36.000 You can't trust confessions that come from torture.

00:47:39.000 You can't trust a government that will torture.

00:47:42.000 So, I'm a nice person.

00:47:42.000 Okay?

00:47:45.000 And what I had to say about this was on the record.

00:47:48.000 Somebody called in saying mean things about this person and I said, don't do that.

00:47:52.000 Not gonna have that.

00:47:53.000 I'd like to, you know, discuss this and debate this with the person and find out why.

00:47:57.000 I said, a lot of good people believe in torture because they're not seeing things clearly.

00:48:01.000 And that's what I said, and you call up all aggressively and mean, and I was aggressive right back to you, Ed. 0.96

00:48:07.000 But, uh, we had another idiot caller who said that none of our planes got shot down over Vietnam and nobody got tortured. 0.99

00:48:14.000 And against a wall of ignorance like that, I can't do anything for you. 1.00

00:48:18.000 Okay.

00:48:19.000 Now let's talk about real issues.

00:48:20.000 Let's talk about the Mad Cow.

00:48:22.000 Let's talk about the terror alerts.

00:48:23.000 If you want to talk about torture, we can do that.

00:48:25.000 But if you call up with a fairy tale, there's nothing I can do for you.

00:48:30.000 Clint in Missouri.

00:48:31.000 Clint, you're on the air.

00:48:32.000 Go ahead.

00:48:33.000 Thank you, Alex.

00:48:34.000 I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas.

00:48:37.000 First of all, I don't think you would be afraid to debate anybody, quite frankly.

00:48:43.000 Well, I've been on I mean, I've been on national TV debating Lionel Chet when the head media takeover guy for Bush, right after he threatened me in a bathroom.

00:48:52.000 I mean, I've snuck into Bohemian Grove.

00:48:54.000 I walk up to police and military at checkpoints and get in their face, and I haven't been contacted or I missed the email.

00:49:00.000 Well, if you're not afraid to take on the feds, I don't see you avoiding the rabbi. 0.99

00:49:04.000 Well, I mean, my whole point is, is I was nice about this whole thing. 0.98

00:49:08.000 And I'm not going to sit there and hear a bunch of garbage.

00:49:10.000 I just want to make a couple of real quick points and then I'll get off and let somebody else get on here.

00:49:16.000 First of all, I want to say thank you and let you know about a man that lives near me named Luther.

00:49:21.000 I just want to let you know he constantly copies off your videos.

00:49:25.000 He's taken them to the Sheriff's Department, the Police Department, the Courthouse.

00:49:30.000 I mean, he's been very active and he's a real patriot.

00:49:32.000 I just want to thank him.

00:49:35.000 Second of all, I want to bring up the fact that a lot of Bush's claims and justifications for war is coming out now.

00:49:43.000 It's coming out in the mainstream.

00:49:47.000 Now Condi Rice doesn't want to testify. 1.00

00:49:51.000 Now they're saying the claims he made about the nukes are false.

00:49:57.000 I've always had a theory that the mass graves that Sean Hannity is always talking about were probably caused by us selling out the Kurds.

00:50:04.000 And then I read, I think it was on your website, if I'm not mistaken, that we had an active role in helping Saddam against the Kurds.

00:50:13.000 And what I'm leading to is, all of this makes me nervous, because if this really comes out and becomes a problem for the Bush administration, I just wonder if they're going to take the heat or if they're going to create a diversion.

00:50:28.000 Well, they already have with the terror alerts.

00:50:33.000 And they've been caught putting out false terror alerts in the past.

00:50:38.000 So that's what we're dealing with.

00:50:39.000 Thank you.

00:50:40.000 That's a good point that you made, Clint.

00:50:43.000 We'll come back and talk to Charles and Michael and others.

00:50:46.000 And we got Jack McClam, Police Against the New World Order, coming on, and Colonel Craig Roberts.

00:50:51.000 And we'll talk about torture with them as well.

00:50:55.000 We'll talk about torture.

00:50:56.000 It was wrong for Joseph Mingala, it's wrong for us to do it.

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00:52:59.000 Alex Jones here announcing the release of my new film, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.

00:53:04.000 Police State 3 details the architecture, goals, and operations of the New World Order.

00:53:09.000 There is a chance to use this disaster with a New World Order.

00:53:13.000 A New World Order.

00:53:15.000 The film documents dozens of confirmed cases of government-sponsored terrorism worldwide.

00:53:21.000 We rip the sinister Patriot Act legislation 1 and 2 apart, piece by piece, and reveal

00:53:25.000 the arrogance of what Ashcroft has to say about your liberty.

00:53:28.000 You will lose your liberty.

00:53:30.000 Homeland Security, executive orders, forced vaccinations, the new prison economy, the

00:53:35.000 Total Information Society, the Pan-American Union, federal gun grabs, government-run white 0.68

00:53:39.000 slavery rings, and much, much more.

00:53:41.000 If you want to understand what the New World Order really is, then my new two-and-a-half-hour video, Police Day 3, is for you.

00:53:47.000 Visit InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com to order, or call toll-free 1-888-253-3139.

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00:53:57.000 From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.

00:54:04.000 From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.

00:54:10.000 It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

00:54:17.000 Alright folks, we've got Jack McClam and Carl Craig Roberts coming up and of course

00:54:29.000 loaded phone lines and a ton of other news items.

00:54:31.000 A caller from Colorado just called in, Jay, and said that one of our wonderful affiliates out there, somebody popped in, unnamed person, and said, oh, we've tried to contact Alex the last two days, five times.

00:54:44.000 Folks, I get hundreds of phone calls a day, and I am awash in messages and information.

00:54:51.000 I'll call my office, but I'll have Rabbi Spivak on right now.

00:54:59.000 In fact, everybody, don't call this number or they won't be able to get through.

00:55:02.000 Whoever is breaking in over me or wants to get this person on and have a discussion about torture, I'll have it right now.

00:55:10.000 Let me get my guest on for about 30 minutes and then we'll have whoever wants to come on, from either the Colorado Radio Network or this rabbi. 0.76

00:55:21.000 And you know, I did my show, what was it?

00:55:23.000 It was on Monday, two days ago.

00:55:26.000 And a couple callers called in and said, yeah, this guy's saying, you know, there's a bomb that's going to kill 100 troops.

00:55:32.000 We need to, you know, you know, torture, you know, is torture good to save the troops if we've got one of these terrorists and can torture him to get the answers?

00:55:42.000 That's the moral argument we've heard on this.

00:55:44.000 And I said, well, you know, how do you spell this guy's name?

00:55:47.000 You know, I'll try to get him on.

00:55:48.000 You know, it's like I say I'm going to get Ron Paul on, and two weeks later you hear him on.

00:55:51.000 Or I say I'm going to get somebody on on the abortion issue, and you hear him on a month later.

00:55:56.000 So, but I mean, to make a big issue of, we've called him, and he's not calling us.

00:56:01.000 I'm a nice guy, folks.

00:56:02.000 I'm sitting here wanting to discuss this with people.

00:56:06.000 I mean, I bring people on who disagree with me all the time as guests.

00:56:09.000 It makes for great radio.

00:56:11.000 And, you know, it fleshes out the idea.

00:56:14.000 So, here's the number.

00:56:16.000 Live to this network.

00:56:18.000 To put the, whoever, somebody from the station, whoever popped in, and I'm, you know, I hear nicely, just said, well, we tried to contact Alex, so, like I said, I told you, I've gotten a lot of messages, I haven't seen it, it's two days ago, folks, really just a day ago, Tuesday, you know, after Monday, and I haven't looked at all my messages this morning, I've been busy getting ready for the show, but here's the number to the network, H, and please, listeners, do not call this number, because then the person won't be able to get through.

00:56:48.000 Let me give it out again.

00:56:48.000 877-996-4327.

00:56:50.000 877-996-4327, extension 125.

00:56:50.000 Let me give it out again.

00:56:57.000 877-996-4327, extension 125.

00:57:03.000 Okay?

00:57:05.000 And again, that is not a number for listeners to call in.

00:57:09.000 You call in on that number, Mark, I want you to hang up on listeners that call that number.

00:57:12.000 Because we gotta, as you know, keep that line open.

00:57:15.000 So if somebody wants to call in, let's have a debate in the third hour.

00:57:19.000 An hour and three minutes from now.

00:57:21.000 I'll have a couple people on who want to disagree with me.

00:57:24.000 It's not like we have to all hate each other and get in a big fight over it.

00:57:27.000 Right now, let's do it.

00:57:28.000 Let's go.

00:57:30.000 I'm here.

00:57:31.000 I'm ready.

00:57:32.000 Because torture is immoral.

00:57:34.000 When Joseph Mengele did it, when Hitler's people did it, when the Japanese did it to our troops, when the Vietnamese did it to our troops, it's wrong. 0.72

00:57:43.000 And I stand against torture.

00:57:45.000 It's un-American. 0.82

00:57:47.000 And I know how these arguments work.

00:57:48.000 The media's been selling us these arguments, that it's a good thing.

00:57:51.000 And a lot of people that I know are going, yeah, maybe it's good.

00:57:55.000 And so I'm not saying, you know, that people that have bought into this are even bad.

00:57:58.000 I think they're misled.

00:57:59.000 And so I've been nice and friendly about this the whole time.

00:58:02.000 You know, having a debate doesn't mean we have to, you know, descend into getting mad at each other.

00:58:06.000 And so I'm here right now.

00:58:07.000 Let me get that number out again.

00:58:08.000 877-996-4327, extension 125.

00:58:15.000 So, I want to get the Rabbi Spivak onto the phone.

00:58:20.000 Don't even know who he is.

00:58:21.000 Never heard of him.

00:58:22.000 Except since Monday.

00:58:24.000 And I'll have anybody on who's prominent out there who thinks torture is okay in certain circumstances.

00:58:30.000 Because I disagree with that.

00:58:32.000 That goes against my code of honor.

00:58:35.000 Uh, so, I'm here waiting.

00:58:38.000 And, uh, so, that's, that's what it comes down to.

00:58:41.000 Okay, I know we got loaded phones and we got a bunch of guests.

00:58:43.000 We'll get to your calls, our guests, and a bunch of other news items.

00:58:46.000 Didn't even plug my videos this hour.

00:58:48.000 Too busy dealing with this.

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00:59:51.000 Big Brother.

00:59:59.000 Mainstream media.

01:00:01.000 Government cover-ups.

01:00:03.000 You want answers?

01:00:04.000 Well, so does he.

01:00:06.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

01:00:10.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

01:00:20.000 Alright folks, we're already into the second hour.

01:00:37.000 Mad cow disease confirmed to be in the United States.

01:00:41.000 Yesterday it was seven countries pulling out of buying U.S.

01:00:45.000 beef products, and now it looks like there's 12 countries announcing it.

01:00:51.000 We've got the terror alert.

01:00:52.000 Rumsfeld saying it's the most dangerous it's ever been since 9-11.

01:00:55.000 He said, you better bet your life on it.

01:00:59.000 Really cryptic statements.

01:01:01.000 We've got Jack McClam, police against the New World Order, coming on to talk about Tommy Franks and General Eberhardt saying martial law is the next step.

01:01:11.000 We've got Colonel Craig Roberts coming on because he's had friends and family that have died from mad cow disease that we'll be discussing that with him and a bunch of other issues and on Monday I think it was in the Third hour, a couple listeners called in and said, one of those stations you're on, a great station, 1360, the American Freedom Network flagship there in Colorado.

01:01:38.000 We've got some other great affiliates there too, the Colorado Radio Network.

01:01:41.000 There's this guy on the air who thinks that, you know, torture might be okay in some cases.

01:01:45.000 I said, wow!

01:01:46.000 You know, I'd like to debate that with a person.

01:01:49.000 Supposedly they've been trying to contact me.

01:01:50.000 I haven't.

01:01:50.000 I don't know if they're contacting the network, because that's not where I'm at.

01:01:53.000 I'm not in Minnesota.

01:01:55.000 But I'm going to find out.

01:01:56.000 We're going to try to get Rabbi Spivak on in the third hour to hear his point of view.

01:02:04.000 Because this is the first I've heard of it today from another listener who said the rabbi wants to debate me, and then he heard I'm dodging it.

01:02:12.000 Wait till you get 2,000 emails a day and 100 phone calls a day and 100 faxes.

01:02:17.000 I'm just swimming in stuff, so I'm glad you contacted me.

01:02:21.000 I'll have anybody on the show that disagrees with me.

01:02:23.000 I think that makes for great radio.

01:02:27.000 Makes for wonderful radio, and I think it's part of the First Amendment that we have these discussions.

01:02:32.000 I know we got loaded phones.

01:02:33.000 We'll get to your calls early with a man I really respect, and that is Jack McClan.

01:02:38.000 Do we have Jack?

01:02:42.000 Okay, we'll get Jack on at 5 after then.

01:02:45.000 Again, we've got so many phone calls here.

01:02:47.000 Let's talk to Charles in Louisiana.

01:02:50.000 Charles, you're on the air.

01:02:51.000 Go ahead.

01:02:52.000 Torture is good, my friend.

01:02:54.000 Let me explain.

01:02:56.000 You get statements they want.

01:02:57.000 They threaten your family with it.

01:02:59.000 They can put bags over you, stomp your toes, send you to prison, make you a terrorist.

01:03:03.000 They can make you say anything you want.

01:03:05.000 Torture is good.

01:03:06.000 What's wrong with you?

01:03:08.000 We need it.

01:03:10.000 They've been torturing for years.

01:03:12.000 Well, you act like you've had some experience with this.

01:03:15.000 17 years, 4 months and 12 days, my friend.

01:03:19.000 Threatened my family, said if you don't sign this one, or sign this one, you ought to sign that one, we'll put your wife in jail.

01:03:25.000 I mean, it's wonderful.

01:03:27.000 They could have made me a terrorist any time they wanted to.

01:03:29.000 Mike Hanson, who does camera work for me, was caught on video in the jail.

01:03:34.000 Mike refused to be searched at a checkpoint.

01:03:37.000 Going on out in the parking lot, and Mike was tortured severely.

01:03:41.000 He finally sued him, got the videotape, and right when it gets to them putting their hands around his neck as he begs, the videotape cuts out.

01:03:50.000 Well, maybe that's... See, that's the problem with torture.

01:03:52.000 It goes downhill.

01:03:53.000 I mean, of course you would... Of course, if we had Adolf Hitler, we'd want to torture him. 0.91

01:03:57.000 But you become Adolf Hitler when you torture Adolf Hitler. 0.72

01:04:01.000 You can make a person say anything they want.

01:04:03.000 There's only one side of torture.

01:04:05.000 Their side.

01:04:07.000 You understand? 0.94

01:04:08.000 I could make you a terrorist, me a terrorist, anybody a terrorist.

01:04:11.000 Well, I didn't mean to get off into a huge torture discussion, but it is important, and I agree with you.

01:04:17.000 I mean, I'm against it.

01:04:18.000 I'm against our troops who were tortured in Vietnam.

01:04:20.000 I'm against Hitler who tortured people.

01:04:22.000 I stand against torture.

01:04:24.000 Well, we're torturing Iraqis. 1.00

01:04:25.000 We're bulldozing their houses down with no trial. 0.85

01:04:30.000 But anyway, I wanted to ask you, have you heard anything that George Bush is sick?

01:04:33.000 Have you heard any rumors that maybe he's sick?

01:04:37.000 No, I haven't heard that.

01:04:38.000 Well, anyway, I want to wish you Merry Christmas, and I want to ask the people, please get your tapes.

01:04:43.000 My VCRs are down right now.

01:04:45.000 I haven't ran too many off.

01:04:47.000 Please get these tapes.

01:04:48.000 Let's get this thing on the road.

01:04:50.000 Alright, God bless you.

01:04:51.000 We'll be back.

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01:05:52.000 Alex Jones here, announcing the release of my new film, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.

01:05:57.000 Police State 3 details the architecture, goals, and operations of the New World Order.

01:06:02.000 There is a chance to use this disaster for the New World Order.

01:06:06.000 The New World Order.

01:06:09.000 The film documents dozens of confirmed cases of government-sponsored terrorism worldwide.

01:06:13.000 We rip the Sinister Patriot Act legislation 1 and 2 apart, piece by piece, and reveal the arrogance of what Ashcroft has to say about your liberty.

01:06:20.000 You will lose your liberty.

01:06:23.000 Homeland Security, executive orders, forced vaccinations, the new prison economy, the Total Information Society, the Pan-American Union, federal gun grabs, government-run white slavery rings, and much, much more.

01:06:33.000 If you want to understand what the new world order really is, This is my new two and a half hour video.

01:06:37.000 Police Day 3 is for you!

01:06:39.000 Visit InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com to order or call toll free 1-888-253-3139.

01:06:43.000 That's 888-253-3139.

01:06:44.000 888-253-3139. That's 888-253-3139. Order today and spread the word.

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01:07:49.000 Not yet available in Iowa.

01:07:53.000 He's the T-Rex of political talk. Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

01:08:00.000 You know, talk radio, one of the things that fuels it is controversy.

01:08:10.000 People love it.

01:08:12.000 But I always stay away from it.

01:08:13.000 I think the news is hardcore enough and serious enough that that's what's going to save this country, and that's what the listeners really want to hear.

01:08:20.000 That's why my show is, quote, the number one patriot, you know, conservative alternative show in the country.

01:08:27.000 But two days ago, and I don't want to get off on a big side issue on this, folks.

01:08:32.000 Two days ago, a couple callers called in bashing a host on one of my affiliates.

01:08:37.000 And I said on air, I'm not going to do that.

01:08:40.000 You know, there's this argument from some conservatives that, well, 100 of our troops are going to die from a bomb, but we can torture one of these Iraqis should we do it. 0.98

01:08:49.000 And I said, I disagree with that.

01:08:51.000 I'd like to debate the person, you know, who's saying that.

01:08:53.000 But I said it very nicely. 0.99

01:08:54.000 And then, you know, a guy called in and said, in the first hour, you're a coward. 0.97

01:08:59.000 You won't debate this guy. 0.98

01:09:00.000 He's been trying to get in touch with you.

01:09:01.000 And I've got two employees who work in my office and answer the phones and do the shipping.

01:09:07.000 One of them is off this week, you know, on vacation.

01:09:09.000 And I did find out that yesterday a bunch of messages have been left.

01:09:13.000 And then the lady that works for me writes those out. 0.96

01:09:17.000 And I haven't been over there to the office to pick them up yesterday.

01:09:20.000 I'm kind of lollygagging about a little bit more than I usually do.

01:09:23.000 Well, that's not true.

01:09:23.000 I did a TV show yesterday, three radio interviews, and my own radio show.

01:09:28.000 But I didn't get over there and get the messages.

01:09:29.000 So great!

01:09:30.000 My whole point is, is that I'm not dodging a debate because it takes me a day to get the message.

01:09:35.000 And that's not what was said.

01:09:36.000 I actually called one of our wonderful affiliates, 1360, and talked to them.

01:09:39.000 They said, no, we were just making it clear because we'd said, yeah, we were setting the debate up that we had contacted you.

01:09:44.000 Well, that's good.

01:09:45.000 Now we have Rabbi Spivak.

01:09:49.000 Coming on in the next hour, we're going to have Craig Roberts on and Jack McClammon.

01:09:53.000 These are both former military men and police officers, and I think they can explain why torture is wrong.

01:09:58.000 I'm going to let them debate him if they want to do that, but I want to keep it nice and cordial because we're all on the same team here.

01:10:04.000 Now, I know we got loaded phones.

01:10:05.000 We're going to get to your calls.

01:10:06.000 There's a bunch of serious news.

01:10:07.000 Mad Cow, impending terror attacks, Rumsfeld saying, bet your life on it.

01:10:12.000 This is the most serious ever.

01:10:13.000 We got generals in government, out of government, talking about martial law.

01:10:18.000 The hair on the back of my neck is standing up right now.

01:10:21.000 I am very, very concerned about that.

01:10:24.000 We need to discuss this, but we will spend 30 minutes of the next hour on torture and on this issue with the rabbi and our guests.

01:10:33.000 We have three guests on.

01:10:35.000 It's going to be really dynamic.

01:10:36.000 Wow, this is hot radio today.

01:10:38.000 So I'm sure you're glad you're tuned in.

01:10:40.000 A man I really respect is Jack McClam, police and military against the New World Order.

01:10:47.000 He joins me today, and Jack, good to have you on, sir.

01:10:52.000 Good to be with you, brother Alex.

01:10:54.000 Out of the gates, I want to go over Mad Cow, I want to go over the terror alerts, I want to go over the martial law statements, but first off, give us in two minutes a summation, Officer McClam, on what you think about torture.

01:11:08.000 Well, in 1976, 1975-1976, we began to adopt in our police academies in the nation, and in our government in general, the end justifies the means political philosophy, Alex.

01:11:23.000 I know because I was academy instructor in the sixth largest police academy in the nation, the Regional Police Academy in Arizona, and we began to train our officers In that anything is okay, as long as it justifies us winning in the end.

01:11:43.000 And it's changed America, this political philosophy, that we should do what our enemies do.

01:11:50.000 Actually, you know, we're no longer a Christian nation, so it's okay to act like animals, like our fellow Well, fellow humans here on the face of the earth that has this philosophy that torture, lying, cheating, killing is even okay. 0.98

01:12:11.000 Doing terrorism against your own people, as long as it promotes the goal, whatever that goal is. 0.79

01:12:17.000 So, Alex, it's just more of the same.

01:12:20.000 Us doing to these uh...

01:12:24.000 totalitarian nation state

01:12:27.000 the same thing they do to uh... lowers up to them at their level and as christians we can't do that we we are

01:12:34.000 not allowed to do the things that

01:12:37.000 the enemies of god and liberty the one another into our people just because 0.89

01:12:42.000 it will it will garner the end

01:12:46.000 well i don't know what it is a little point is is that jesus christ was

01:12:50.000 tortured uh... with the crown of thorns in the last year's and and

01:12:54.000 and dragon the cross I mean, the other day I was talking about how thousands of helicopter and jet pilots were shot down, captured, tortured.

01:13:04.000 I have family in that war.

01:13:05.000 We have a bunch of congressmen who were tortured.

01:13:08.000 And this caller called in and said, no, we never had a plane shot down.

01:13:11.000 We never had anybody tortured.

01:13:13.000 I mean, just delusional, and then I pointed out, well, they're saying Saddam's bad because he tortured, but now it's okay to torture them.

01:13:21.000 I don't understand that thinking process, Jack.

01:13:24.000 Well, we are under the Injustifies the Means political philosophy today.

01:13:28.000 We're out underneath our Christian nation that was based on biblical principles, so we're going to find that that is the attitude of many people who have been trained through the government schools That justifies the means is politically fine today. 0.98

01:13:46.000 Well, Jack, almost every episode of 24 with Keither Sutherland or Threat Matrix, almost every episode they torture somebody and it's a good thing.

01:13:54.000 We're seeing a mass mind-warping right now.

01:13:57.000 Yeah, that's right, brother.

01:13:59.000 And I saw it firsthand in law enforcement.

01:14:02.000 As the young people were taught that it's okay to lie, it's okay to cheat, it's okay to change your police reports, get in a big room, and all get together and make sure your police reports are the same because so-and-so might sue the city or sue the government.

01:14:17.000 And now we hear about the FBI torturing, running murder for hire, police framing people, the FBI crime lab, the Houston crime lab.

01:14:25.000 I see these articles about frame-ups every day, Jack.

01:14:28.000 Yes, and many of these people Can't even be prosecuted for that.

01:14:35.000 Government agents and prosecutors and judges that do things totally immoral and unlawful can't even be prosecuted for these things.

01:14:45.000 Well, a listener gave a quote from the late 70s where the Italian president was kidnapped and the head of the police, federal police, they said, well, let's torture these people.

01:14:55.000 And he said, no.

01:14:56.000 And a caller mentioned this, and I have seen it on the History Channel.

01:14:59.000 A caller mentioned the quote, and I'm paraphrasing it, but Italy can survive losing our president, but we can't survive beginning torture.

01:15:11.000 It reminds me, brother, of about 15 years ago.

01:15:11.000 Yes.

01:15:18.000 We put together a bunch of documentation on the Injustifies the Means political philosophy that's being taught in our schools today.

01:15:28.000 You know, we came up with this book on values clarification that stated to the children, it's okay to lie, it's okay to steal, it's okay to have premarital sex, it's okay to cheat or to kill, if these things are part of your value system and you've clarified these values for yourself.

01:15:47.000 The important thing is not what values you choose, but that you have chosen them freely, without coercion of your parents, a spouse, priests, friends, ministers, or social pressure of any kind.

01:15:59.000 And that's where we're at today, brother.

01:16:01.000 We're no longer a Christian nation. 0.93

01:16:02.000 The Christians have withdrawn and are in their prayer closets, praying that the rapture gets here before the Antichrist gets here, and they've abandoned the institution. 0.96

01:16:14.000 At Waco, they played the sounds of squealing, dying rabbits with Gregorian monk chants.

01:16:19.000 They pumped the CS gas in, which they admit killed a lot of the children.

01:16:23.000 Did they deserve torture?

01:16:25.000 Well, they were in the way of accomplishing the goal.

01:16:29.000 Sadly, the goal was most important, and humans are second to accomplishing the goal.

01:16:37.000 Well, all I know is it was wrong for Joseph Mingala to torture people.

01:16:43.000 It was wrong for Fidel Castro to torture.

01:16:47.000 It's wrong to torture a black slave to get answers about where the runaways are at. 0.66

01:16:54.000 This is wrong. 0.92

01:16:56.000 And I can't understand how my core knows it's wrong.

01:17:01.000 Not just psychologically or intellectually, my core tells me it's horrible, Jack.

01:17:06.000 And a lot of people are going over to the dark side.

01:17:10.000 Well, America was always supposed to be an example to the world.

01:17:14.000 And at one time we were, Alex.

01:17:16.000 But not today.

01:17:17.000 We've adjusted to their morals and their dogma and to their tactics and techniques.

01:17:24.000 So we're really no different today than the rest of the world.

01:17:28.000 And this is so important because, of course, as the head of the Ford Foundation said in 1954, Rowan Gaither, we're going to be merged together with the rest of the third world nations.

01:17:38.000 So our morals, Our standards all have to be brought down, Alex, to the same as the heathen out there, and it's been accomplished very well.

01:17:47.000 So torture will be a normal process under this new political correct system that we're going under.

01:17:56.000 Oh, man.

01:17:57.000 And again, I saw law enforcement publications years ago that would go, if somebody's got anthrax and is going to release it and we can torture for the answer, shouldn't we do it?

01:18:05.000 Well, the point is, you look at who's behind the anthrax, it's the U.S. 0.76

01:18:08.000 government.

01:18:09.000 Who's behind the terror?

01:18:10.000 It's the globalists.

01:18:11.000 But the point here is, is that you can't believe the confession that comes out of torture.

01:18:16.000 You can't trust a government that will torture.

01:18:18.000 That's true.

01:18:19.000 If they tortured me, I'd tell them anything but the truth.

01:18:25.000 And I think you'd be the same way, Alex.

01:18:26.000 And of course, I had a good military friend tell me that the other day.

01:18:30.000 They've been in the military for years.

01:18:33.000 You can't trust.

01:18:34.000 When you torture somebody and get an answer, you don't know that that answer is correct. 0.96

01:18:40.000 Well, it's like you said.

01:18:42.000 Jack, you know what?

01:18:42.000 It's amazing.

01:18:43.000 Let's pick this back up in the next hour, because we got Mad Cow, we got Bush announcing he wants totally open borders to legalize everybody. 0.81

01:18:50.000 We've got these generals talking about martial law.

01:18:53.000 Was it bone-chilling to you, like it was for me to hear Eberhardt admit we're under extraordinary control level, that we are going under military control, to hear Tommy Frank say that?

01:19:04.000 It was shocking.

01:19:05.000 You know, Alex, you and I for years have known this is coming, but the closer it gets, as much as we deal with reality every day, it was still shocking to my system when I heard it from their own mouths.

01:19:21.000 Well, we'll discuss that.

01:19:22.000 And yes, I know we have loaded phones.

01:19:24.000 We'll get to your calls, I promise, early in this interview.

01:19:26.000 We got Colonel Roberts joining us as well.

01:19:28.000 And I know that Jack's going to enjoy being on with him.

01:19:31.000 Yeah.

01:19:32.000 Both great Americans.

01:19:34.000 And we're going to have a debate, I guess, eight minutes into the next hour for about 30 minutes with someone.

01:19:42.000 People called in saying that he was having a discussion of torture.

01:19:45.000 I said, I might want to talk to him.

01:19:46.000 So I guess we're going to talk to him.

01:19:49.000 So we'll be right back.

01:19:50.000 Stay with us.

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01:23:53.000 We're talking to Jack McClam, Police Against the New World Order.

01:24:06.000 And Jack, I have the article right here, Immigration Reform on the Bush Agenda.

01:24:13.000 agenda And they call it reform, like campaign finance reform, restricting the First Amendment before elections.

01:24:20.000 That's reform.

01:24:21.000 Well, see, the word reform has been altered.

01:24:23.000 Reform just means to change the form, but we think of it as a good word, and it says here in the Washington Post, total legalization of anyone that can get here.

01:24:33.000 You get here, you are made legal.

01:24:36.000 Jack McClain, how can they say they're going to micromanage our lives as citizens, but they're going to carte blanche, leave the borders wide open, and let anybody in here? 0.99

01:24:45.000 Well, it is the number one means of proving that the whole Homeland Security program is a farce, Alex.

01:24:54.000 You know, as a law enforcement person from a state who is literally suffering an invasion for the last 20 years into Arizona, I'm disabled today in the line of duty as a law enforcement person in Phoenix by an illegal alien dope smuggler out of Mexico.

01:25:14.000 And I've lost seven of my brothers and sisters in uniform in that city, and much of it was due to illegal aliens accessing our nation. 1.00

01:25:25.000 Uh, in those border states.

01:25:27.000 I knew two days ago that Jack Foote and others from Ranch Rescue were fired on on the U.S.

01:25:32.000 side by Mexican troops, bullets landing right beside them in the dirt, and, uh, and now it's in Newsmax today.

01:25:40.000 We have federal officers being killed, you name it, but there's almost no media attention on this.

01:25:45.000 Well, Homeland Security is a farce.

01:25:47.000 What it is, is, uh, uh, domestic Uh, tyr- uh, tyranny is what it is. 0.58

01:25:55.000 Domestic tyranny is to put you and me, brother, and our children and grandchildren under a totalitarian system that has nothing to do with security of our nation and our people.

01:26:06.000 We've got callers that have been holding forever, Jack McClam.

01:26:06.000 Absolutely.

01:26:08.000 Let's, uh, go to some of them, and I'm all mixed up here, uh, of who I should go to next.

01:26:14.000 Michael in Washington State.

01:26:15.000 Go ahead, sir.

01:26:16.000 Hello, Alex.

01:26:17.000 Happy holidays to you, yours, and the listeners.

01:26:19.000 Thank you.

01:26:20.000 One thing I wanted to point out to the listeners, somebody put me on a list for GeorgeWBush.com.

01:26:37.000 I got an email from him.

01:26:38.000 I got kind of upset that I kept getting emails, but I'm a firm believer that every adversity carries with it a seed of equal greater benefit.

01:26:45.000 I looked at the website and it shows all the places where the rallies are going on so that we can go and protest.

01:26:50.000 Also, there's a great tool on there. It says, Get Active. I clicked on that.

01:26:55.000 You pump in your zip code and it will give you every mom and pop radio station, TV, and magazine in your local area.

01:27:03.000 Then I started adding all of the real news that I would get from your website and email all these radio stations and TV stations.

01:27:10.000 It works wonderful.

01:27:11.000 Absolutely, Jeff and William.

01:27:13.000 Comments on the forced multiplication of info and on the mad cow.

01:27:17.000 Well, brother, I'll tell you, this is amazing.

01:27:19.000 Every single day here, praise the Lord, we're hearing from more great patriot Americans like the gentleman just calling in now.

01:27:27.000 The people are finally doing something.

01:27:31.000 We ask them to do something every day before you lay your head down at night.

01:27:35.000 Do something to inform someone, somewhere, about what is going on.

01:27:41.000 Give them an Alex Jones videotape.

01:27:43.000 Give them a number, how they can dial in on the radios, talk shows, and listen in, or whatever.

01:27:50.000 But don't lay down any night without doing something every day.

01:27:53.000 And this brother is a perfect example.

01:27:56.000 Of a great American in this country today, so I'm just so honored to have him call in, Alex.

01:28:01.000 Absolutely.

01:28:02.000 Mad Cow.

01:28:05.000 Mad Cow is the same program that's been going on now for 30 years to level the United States economically with the rest of the third world nations, which we're coming down to third world nation ourselves. 0.98

01:28:18.000 Just to destroy our industry manufacturing.

01:28:21.000 The beef industry is very important to this nation.

01:28:24.000 We don't have much industry left.

01:28:27.000 One of our only industries left.

01:28:28.000 My family in East Texas survives off this.

01:28:31.000 Yes.

01:28:32.000 Well, it's coming down, brother, because that's the name of the game.

01:28:35.000 That's the program to bring all of us down and bring all of our industry and manufacturing out to India and to Red China and other places. 1.00

01:28:44.000 And believe us, like they said, in 1954, this World Federalist Organization in Britain stated that America, this is 1954, would be a serviced nation.

01:28:56.000 It would service the products of other nations, but it would have no industry and manufacturing.

01:29:00.000 And that's exactly what they, 1776 was over that.

01:29:04.000 They wouldn't let us manufacture here.

01:29:06.000 We were only for raw material.

01:29:08.000 So we're going to have the $5 and $6 an hour jobs here for a while, then it'll go down to $5 and $6 a day like other third world nations. 0.99

01:29:08.000 That's right. 0.99

01:29:18.000 And the sad part is, Alex, that yes, brothers and sisters are waking up like you call her here and doing something every day that's very important, as God says, to occupy until his return.

01:29:32.000 But the vast majority of people are still asleep believing that the man that said... Hang on, we got a break.

01:29:38.000 We got a break.

01:29:38.000 We'll come back with more calls, more news.

01:29:40.000 And Craig Roberts with Jack McClam.

01:29:44.000 We're on the march.

01:29:45.000 The Empire's on the run.

01:29:48.000 Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

01:29:54.000 People often ask me what they can do about what's happening in America.

01:29:58.000 And I tell them, what you want to do is tell the most carefully kept secret in America.

01:30:02.000 And let people understand that America was founded as a Christian nation.

01:30:05.000 It was founded by Christians on Christian principles.

01:30:08.000 Now, of course, this is not taught in our schools.

01:30:11.000 It's not taught in our seminaries.

01:30:12.000 It's not taught in our universities.

01:30:14.000 And certainly never mentioned by the controlled media.

01:30:16.000 But you can help us to get the truth out about America's Christian heritage by setting up an institute on the Constitution in your home, in your church, in your neighborhood. 0.83

01:30:24.000 Call the Institute and the Constitution at 410-760-9068.

01:30:28.000 That's 410-760-9068.

01:30:33.000 And ask about setting up an Institute of the Constitution.

01:30:35.000 It's 12 programs.

01:30:37.000 Everything's there on the video.

01:30:38.000 All you have to do is, of course, get a group together.

01:30:41.000 So remember the Institute of the Constitution at 410-760-9068.

01:30:43.000 Get involved.

01:30:43.000 410-760-1968. Get involved. Help us save America.

01:30:50.000 Hello, Ted Anderson here with Midas Resources.

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01:32:01.000 Sponsorship is critical at both local and national levels.

01:32:04.000 If you have a business product or message that could benefit from this broadcast locally, call the station you're listening to.

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01:32:15.000 Become a part of the Genesis team by calling your local station, or call the national line at 877-996-4327.

01:32:23.000 This is Pat Cooper with 10 reasons to listen to the Tony DelVecchio Show.

01:32:27.000 Reason number 10, no one listens to him at home.

01:32:29.000 Reason number 9, I don't want to be the only one calling in.

01:32:32.000 Reason number 8, think of the rest of the meeting yourself.

01:32:34.000 I got a lot of things I gotta do today.

01:32:36.000 Like get a job and get paid.

01:32:37.000 I don't understand this guy.

01:32:40.000 That's all about this with your host, Tony DelVecchio.

01:32:43.000 Saturday evenings from 9 to 10 p.m.

01:32:45.000 Central Time, right here on the Genesis Communications Radio Network.

01:32:49.000 And if you don't listen to his show, you'll have to deal with me.

01:32:51.000 Waging war on corruption.

01:33:01.000 Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

01:33:05.000 Harassing the lies and disinformation.

01:33:08.000 Monday through Friday from 11 to 2 Central, back from 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.

01:33:13.000 Blasting out on the AM and FM dial from Rhode Island to Los Angeles, California.

01:33:18.000 Simulcasting on Global Shortwave during the day at 12.172 and 93.20 and back from 9 to midnight at 5.085 and 68.90.

01:33:28.000 And before we go back to Jack McClam, we now have Colonel Craig Roberts.

01:33:33.000 We're going to have both these guys on with us for the rest of the show.

01:33:35.000 We're so honored to have them.

01:33:37.000 And we're going to have a Reverend Spivak on who wants to debate about torture.

01:33:42.000 On the air, so we'll have him on and let our guest talk to him and get their views on it.

01:33:47.000 And we got loaded phones, we'll go to your calls before this hour ends here in the next few minutes.

01:33:51.000 Before I go back to our guest in this jam-packed Christmas Eve broadcast, I might as well get the plug out here, didn't do it in the first hour.

01:33:58.000 I've made 10 films.

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01:34:03.000 Congressman Ron Paul talks about the New World Order and how globalists run Washington and the coming depression.

01:34:09.000 Uh, he talks about the neocons of the New World Order.

01:34:12.000 Colonel Craig Roberts talks about the New World Order and gun control.

01:34:15.000 Cynthia McKinney talks about government prior knowledge of 9-11, U.N.-run white slavery rings.

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01:34:48.000 Very important.

01:34:49.000 We get into the militarization of police, the end of Posse Comitatus, Patriot Act 1 and 2, Homeland Security, local state laws that are being passed, arresting you if you sue public officials under terrorism charges.

01:35:02.000 It's an incredible film.

01:35:03.000 Police State 3 Total Enslavement.

01:35:05.000 Of course, there's 9-11 Road to Tyranny, Masters of Terror, Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove.

01:35:10.000 There's my book, Descent into Tyranny.

01:35:12.000 Paul Watson's book, Order Out of Chaos, that's amazing.

01:35:15.000 Big discounts when you get multiple items.

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01:35:52.000 and I'm Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas 78704.

01:36:04.000 This show got unexpectedly jam-packed today with Colonel Roberts and Jack McClam, Colonel

01:36:09.000 Craig Roberts and Jack McClam, Police Against the New World Order and of course author and

01:36:13.000 lecturer and Vietnam sniper Craig Roberts.

01:36:17.000 I wanted to go over martial law, the militarization of police, the statements by Eberhardt, the head of NORTHCOM about martial law, Tommy Franks, the open borders, the heightened terror alert, And we're going to do that, and then the next hour we're going to get into torture, because that's very important.

01:36:32.000 Colonel Roberts, it's good to have you on, and to have you on with somebody I know you admire, Jack McClam.

01:36:38.000 Good to have you on the show, sir.

01:36:40.000 Oh, it's always glad to be back.

01:36:41.000 Hello, Brother Jack.

01:36:42.000 How you doing?

01:36:42.000 Hey, Brother Craig.

01:36:44.000 Merry Christmas to you and your family.

01:36:46.000 We've got to get together for breakfast again soon.

01:36:46.000 You too.

01:36:49.000 I want to go to calls and get into the terror alerts and the mad cow and the rest of it.

01:36:53.000 You've had some personal experience with that, Colonel Roberts, but right now, in just a minute or two, your synopsis of torture and what it means.

01:37:01.000 Okay.

01:37:02.000 I've got a different perspective and it's my opinion on it because I've been there and we've been in situations in the military where we're going to have to differentiate What is torture and what isn't?

01:37:11.000 Because there's a lot of people that put torture in one big basket and said, you can't do any of this stuff.

01:37:16.000 And it's just like the environment, you know?

01:37:20.000 You can't just blanketly say, this is how we're going to define everything, because it's a little more complicated than that.

01:37:26.000 There's a totally different way in prison or treatment and war versus what we would do here in this country.

01:37:32.000 So basically, torture to me, in my definition, is something that does physical harm to somebody, It is a physical abuse.

01:37:40.000 It does physical damage.

01:37:42.000 Those things should never be done.

01:37:43.000 That's the Stalin-Hitler male decomposition. 0.92

01:37:45.000 Yeah, but tell somebody we're going to charge you with a death penalty sentence if you don't answer questions.

01:37:52.000 That would not be torture.

01:37:54.000 Cooperate with us.

01:37:55.000 We'll go easy.

01:37:57.000 That's negotiation.

01:37:58.000 Torture is what Joseph Mengele would do.

01:38:00.000 Right.

01:38:01.000 And that's been proposed in Iraq.

01:38:02.000 I'm against that.

01:38:03.000 Right.

01:38:04.000 Physical abuse of prisoners always comes back to haunt you in the end.

01:38:09.000 Sleep deprivation, denial of privileges, solitary confinement, stuff that we normally would do in a prison system for people that misbehave, would be totally acceptable if it's going to save American lives in a war situation. 0.92

01:38:21.000 These people don't have the rights that we have under our Constitution, you know, so our military has a little bit more flexibility.

01:38:27.000 However, when it gets to the point where you physically injure someone, expect their people to do the same to our prisoners when they capture us, and we don't want that to happen.

01:38:36.000 Well, I mean, in Vietnam, they would torture our pilots. 0.81

01:38:40.000 Absolutely, and we did some bad things in Vietnam, too.

01:38:43.000 We had the Phoenix Program, where we would stand there and watch Vietnamese troops torture Viet Cong prisoners with ways that are totally unacceptable and against the rules of land warfare.

01:38:53.000 uh... they also that they they they vote over they carry his provisional

01:38:57.000 reconnaissance units that would go out in the villages and sack people up in

01:39:00.000 torture with physical abuse or at allow the vietnamese who are working for them 1.00

01:39:03.000 to do it and a lot of times it turned out with the south vietnamese going

01:39:06.000 after their business rivals and nothing to do yet with with fighting an enemy why once you get into that

01:39:12.000 area all of a sudden it becomes uncontrollable and now you get into things that

01:39:15.000 happened you like in kosovo and bosnia and and and so on worse of

01:39:18.000 the innocence of civilians get caught up in this whole thing and then it

01:39:21.000 just, it's like wildfire.

01:39:22.000 Well that's my point is wildfire.

01:39:24.000 It's a Pandora's box because you can't trust a government that'll torture.

01:39:28.000 You can't trust answers that you get from torture.

01:39:32.000 I mean we can't say Saddam's evil, he tortures people. 0.90

01:39:35.000 Let's torture him.

01:39:37.000 Anybody that's a student of history can go back and look at the Inquisition. 0.55

01:39:40.000 Everybody in the Inquisition could be found guilty after a certain amount of torture.

01:39:46.000 Same thing with witches at Salem. 0.97

01:39:47.000 If you want to dunk somebody long enough, they're going to admit that they're a witch just to get you to quit.

01:39:51.000 They'll say anything under torture, so that's valueless information.

01:39:54.000 What you really need is a way to convince people to cooperate without having to do things that later on may be used against your own troops if it leaks out that you did this stuff.

01:40:03.000 And then what do you say once you've been torturing?

01:40:05.000 How do you criticize the other side?

01:40:07.000 Well, you can't.

01:40:08.000 That's the problem.

01:40:10.000 You know, there's only one thing in history that's always held true.

01:40:12.000 The winner never gets condemned.

01:40:14.000 It's always the loser.

01:40:16.000 Jack McClam comments to what Colonel Roberts just said.

01:40:19.000 I think there's no question he's right on target because I know that, Alex, you were not speaking of either of things like sleep deprivation and so forth as torture.

01:40:31.000 Uh, but we're talking about physically injuring people, threatening and throwing people out of helicopters, you know, because they don't talk.

01:40:39.000 And then the other people watching this will talk like crazy.

01:40:42.000 I mean, you know, this is not what we do in America.

01:40:46.000 under our system and once again it will definitely come back to haunt you

01:40:51.000 because we have no right of recourse then against any nation doing anything

01:40:55.000 to our captured POW. My point is we got an FBI that's been caught running

01:41:00.000 murder-for-hire, FBI crime lab running frauds, Houston crime labs, all these

01:41:04.000 other crime labs, Tulia Texas, hundreds of examples, modern examples of frame-ups,

01:41:08.000 police torturing people here.

01:41:10.000 I mean, you cannot trust an establishment because you're going to get evil people in power that are going to use that torture.

01:41:17.000 That's right.

01:41:18.000 You have to control your own internal law enforcement mechanisms.

01:41:22.000 They can't be controlled for you.

01:41:24.000 Once a government has the ability to order its law enforcement agencies or intelligence agencies to do things without any exterior control by the population, then you've lost control.

01:41:36.000 It's become a dictatorship and you're going to end up at the wrong end of the stick on the deal.

01:41:40.000 That was one of the things that was great about this country when it started out, is the people ran the government.

01:41:44.000 Now it's the other way around.

01:41:45.000 The government can do anything it wants, but if the people do anything, if you do anything out here, they can bring the might of the government down on you and all the laws they've passed while they themselves ignore them.

01:41:57.000 It's selective enforcement.

01:42:01.000 Now, you're both students of history, but I've read a lot of history about the Revolutionary War.

01:42:05.000 We were known for treating the British soldiers well.

01:42:08.000 They would torture and kill us, and that ended up backfiring on the British. 0.71

01:42:12.000 Am I not correct?

01:42:14.000 That's absolutely right.

01:42:15.000 Yes, and it's a matter of special operations training.

01:42:20.000 That what you do is you go out and you do something that makes the enemy retaliate against the civilian population.

01:42:26.000 And when the enemy retaliates against the civilian population, it puts the civilian population automatically on your side. 0.81

01:42:34.000 Because they turn against your enemy.

01:42:36.000 And, you know, we did this in World War II with the French underground.

01:42:39.000 They would go out and do stuff that would make the Germans turn around and take a whole village and take the men out and execute them.

01:42:44.000 And that would take the whole province and turn it against the Germans in a proactive manner instead of just standing around saying, I hate Germans. 0.66

01:42:52.000 So, it's just like in this country.

01:42:56.000 If you can create a terrorist event and blame somebody for it, then all of a sudden the news media uses this to take the population and turn us against whoever it is they blamed.

01:43:07.000 So, at the very beginning of America, in the United States, we were against torture.

01:43:12.000 Absolutely.

01:43:13.000 But the British did it and it backfired on them. 0.92

01:43:15.000 Well, where we learned it was the French-Indian War, when the French and the Indians were torturing American prisoners, It backfired on them, so when the Revolutionary War came around, most of our troops were pretty careful about not doing that.

01:43:28.000 However, we did break a lot of the British rules.

01:43:30.000 We shot their officers off horses.

01:43:32.000 That was very ungentlemanly.

01:43:34.000 We engaged him from the bushes.

01:43:35.000 No one ever did that.

01:43:36.000 But that's just guerrilla warfare.

01:43:37.000 Yeah.

01:43:38.000 And so, you know, rules come and go, but what you have to go by is not the rules made by men, but the rules made by God and the morals of what we should be living by.

01:43:48.000 And that's the whole thing in a nutshell.

01:43:49.000 Well, we can't criticize Joseph Mengele if we start torturing people.

01:43:52.000 Right.

01:43:53.000 Jack, you agree on the rules of God, right?

01:43:56.000 We have always meant to be a beacon to the rest of the world of the way people should act towards one another.

01:43:56.000 Absolutely.

01:44:06.000 That's biblical, and if we lower ourselves to the animalistic level of our enemies that are heathen many times, then we are no longer a beacon to the world like God expected us to.

01:44:19.000 And another thing we should remember is that when we do these things, we torture people, and the locals find out

01:44:30.000 about this, we can lose very easily.

01:44:33.000 It's like right now in Iraq.

01:44:35.000 We are angry because we are doing things in a nation that we shouldn't be over there doing

01:44:40.000 to begin with, for oil and for land, and we're trying to win the population over to our side.

01:44:47.000 By bulldozing their farms?

01:44:49.000 Yes, now we're going in and we watch on the news even.

01:44:53.000 They show us breaking in the doors and a mother holding her child there in local communities and ramsacking the house and scaring the kids to death.

01:45:02.000 Hauling the men outside and putting them under arrest and then go take them away and find out, hey, they weren't part of anything anyway.

01:45:09.000 And now you have the population turning against you when you use those type of tactics of torture and inhumane activity.

01:45:18.000 Our Pentagon has to know that.

01:45:20.000 They're going to let us take the fall and send the U.N.

01:45:22.000 in as the savior.

01:45:24.000 Do you guys agree with that? 0.99

01:45:25.000 Well, you know, that's ridiculous. 0.98

01:45:27.000 No one agrees with that.

01:45:30.000 The Pentagon, at the very top levels, historically, since before the Clinton administration, to get your stars and get that high, you had to do time with the CFR, you had to do time with some globalist outfitter, get your blue hat for a while, and agree to the globalist mentality that we should become a nation-state.

01:45:46.000 Wesley Clark's from that school.

01:45:48.000 I mean, that's the point I'm making is that the Pentagon has to know this is going to backfire.

01:45:54.000 Well, yeah, and by using that as a tool, they could, you know, there are probably certain groups that would love that to happen so they could say, see, we can't do it by ourselves.

01:46:05.000 The Canadians, you know, they lost the whole parachute regiment in Somalia because of some torture incidents over there where a Somalian kid was killed, and I think they roasted him over a fire or something.

01:46:17.000 And it got back to Canada, and the people raised such a ruckus that the 1st Canadian Parachute Regiment was disbanded, and I guess it is to this day.

01:46:26.000 And so that's going to be the plan, have us do the bad stuff, then have the U.N.

01:46:29.000 come into Iraq playing the part of the good cop.

01:46:32.000 Right, and another point I want to make, you know, in the military, let's jump tracks over and look at it from a different point of view.

01:46:40.000 It's my job, if I capture an enemy soldier and I'm in charge, to interrogate him.

01:46:44.000 That's my mission.

01:46:45.000 It's his mission to resist, and I'm supposed to understand that.

01:46:48.000 He's not obligated to tell me anything.

01:46:50.000 If I can trick him into it, if I can convince him to come over to my side, if I can bribe him into it, this is all perfectly acceptable.

01:46:59.000 If he decides to make that choice and give me the information, hey, great.

01:47:02.000 But as soon as I lay hands on him, I've crossed the line.

01:47:06.000 Because if I'm captured, it's my mission to resist.

01:47:10.000 We found out in Vietnam that name, rank, and serial number doesn't cut it anymore in a torture environment.

01:47:14.000 Our pilots were told, give them only name, rank, and serial number.

01:47:17.000 Well, if you do that, what you've done is you've set up a barrier or a line that once they cross it, they give up totally and give them everything.

01:47:23.000 What we do now as we train under our rules, when you capture this, is resist as long as you can.

01:47:33.000 When you have to give them information, give them stuff that doesn't matter.

01:47:36.000 And by the time it gets around to where you have to give them critical stuff, like where your unit's located or something like that, it's not going to matter anyway because it's going to be obsolete information.

01:47:44.000 So resist as long as you can.

01:47:46.000 We don't expect you to withstand terrible torture.

01:47:49.000 Well, also they found a lot of people under torture will give up people they don't like anyways.

01:47:54.000 You know, they'll just go after their enemies.

01:47:56.000 Well, they'll do that real quick to try to bargain their way out of it, but it's not going to work.

01:48:01.000 Once you start giving information, they're going to want more and more and more.

01:48:04.000 Gentlemen, we've got loaded phone lines here, and we've got this little debate coming up, and I hope you guys will have this discussion with this rabbi who I think was saying that The torture in some circumstances is okay, but we'll have to hear from him on that.

01:48:16.000 But I did want to get into General Eberhardt saying we're under extraordinary threat level, which is really martial law.

01:48:21.000 Yeah, we're going to have troops in your daily life.

01:48:23.000 Yeah, the Pentagon's watching you in the L.A.

01:48:25.000 Times.

01:48:25.000 You said that.

01:48:26.000 You said it before Congress, the L.A.

01:48:27.000 Times reported.

01:48:28.000 Now we also have Tommy Franks going, well, I hate to say it, but the next step is military form of government.

01:48:35.000 Both of you gentlemen, comments on that.

01:48:38.000 Go ahead, Jack.

01:48:39.000 Well, Tommy Franks, I'll tell you, yeah, he really hates it all right.

01:48:42.000 He's been a globalist since he was born, just about.

01:48:46.000 He's been fashioned and brought up to be exactly what he is to help set up this Antichrist world system. 0.94

01:48:53.000 And he does it very well.

01:48:55.000 So he doesn't hate to see this coming.

01:48:58.000 This is the goal of the Bush crime family and the Tommy Franks of the world. 0.96

01:49:03.000 Well, the head of NORTHCOM went further than Franks.

01:49:06.000 He said it was good.

01:49:09.000 Well, you know... And they believe that.

01:49:11.000 They truly believe it.

01:49:12.000 They're in power, so anybody under them is where they ought to be, under them.

01:49:16.000 So, yes, they think it's good.

01:49:19.000 There's two areas in this area, too, that's militarization of the government and the militarization of our law enforcement agencies.

01:49:27.000 And if you go to my website, riflewarrior.com, and just scroll down just a couple of inches, you'll see a new link.

01:49:34.000 Where I talk about the militarization of our law enforcement agencies down to and including your local sheriffs and police departments.

01:49:42.000 And how that's coming about and then hit that link and it'll take you to a little article I wrote and from there you can go to the Cato Institute 26 page article on this stuff.

01:49:51.000 I don't agree with everything in the article and I point out what I don't agree with but the problem is over the period of the last 30 years the federal government has been able to get inside of our police agencies with grant programs and late funds and all sorts of things to where now they can pretty much pull the strings and they've convinced our police academies to tell our young officers that what we need is a federal National Law Enforcement Task Force.

01:50:14.000 And that's what all these alerts are about, is getting us used to that, Jack.

01:50:17.000 Yes, that's right.

01:50:18.000 Yes.

01:50:19.000 What mystifies those police officers and soldiers I'm in communication with is that how well this works.

01:50:27.000 I mean, it's incredible that the American people are not, as any size at all, any amount of size at all, resisting this.

01:50:38.000 They're actually just Feel they're blessed by having our government take such good care of us.

01:50:45.000 Amazing, folks.

01:50:46.000 Federalization of your local police and everyone's a terrorist.

01:50:50.000 We'll be back with your calls.

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01:52:57.000 We answer these vital questions and much, much more in my newest and most explosive documentary yet, 9-1-1, The Road to Tyranny.

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01:53:55.000 Okay, let's go ahead and go to some of your calls.

01:54:07.000 Then a little bit into the next hour, we're going to have this rabbi on who was on his radio show, one of my affiliates, talking about torture.

01:54:14.000 And I said, oh, I might want to have a discussion with him.

01:54:16.000 And so he's been wanting to do that.

01:54:18.000 So we're going to have him on with our guests.

01:54:19.000 We'll all have a discussion about it, a debate about it.

01:54:23.000 Let's go ahead and go to some calls, Colonel Roberts and of course Jack McClam.

01:54:29.000 Colonel Craig Roberts and Jack McClam.

01:54:30.000 Jack McClam with Police Against the New World Order.

01:54:33.000 He's got a long website.

01:54:34.000 Just type Police and Military Against the New World Order into a search engine.

01:54:37.000 It'll be one of the first links.

01:54:38.000 It's an amazing website.

01:54:40.000 We're going to plug all that contact info in the next hour.

01:54:43.000 So stay with us, folks.

01:54:45.000 Right now, let's go to David in New York.

01:54:49.000 David, you're on the air with our guest.

01:54:50.000 Go ahead.

01:54:53.000 Good to talk to you, David.

01:54:56.000 Hi, Craig and hi, Jack.

01:54:57.000 How's it going?

01:54:58.000 Hello, David.

01:54:59.000 Hey, the reason I was calling is because lately we've heard some things about Prescott Bush funding Hitler and Rumsfeld funding North Korea, and my question is... That's all documented fact.

01:54:59.000 Good.

01:55:18.000 My big question is, how come the Global List would be Funding dictators and people that they know they can't, you know, control.

01:55:26.000 I mean, how do they... We've heard about funding of the communists by... But they can control them.

01:55:32.000 They build up this phony bipolar world, and then set up a police state to counter that imaginary enemy, and then have weapon sales taking them over.

01:55:42.000 Jack, Craig, comments?

01:55:43.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:55:45.000 You know, when they funded Hitler, they were totally in control of Hitler because they controlled all of the funding for the Third Reich through the Reichsbank.

01:55:51.000 Uh, the same thing when, uh, during the, uh, uh, you know, they, they funded, uh, uh, the entire Russian Revolution in 1918 and then controlled them afterwards all the way up through Joe Stalin. 0.68

01:56:00.000 Uh, and when these guys get out of control, what they do is they either kill them off or go to war against them.

01:56:05.000 Uh, and they make sure they don't get out of control.

01:56:07.000 But see, you have to have an enemy at the gate.

01:56:09.000 You have to have some way to fund both sides of a, uh, of a war.

01:56:14.000 Uh, and it, it matters not who wins or loses because, uh, both sides are in the debt of the people who fund them.

01:56:19.000 It's all about money and power.

01:56:21.000 Is this why, um, is this why, you know, when Hitler came to power there had to be a Stalin and then when that whole thing ended, you know, it had to be the U.S.

01:56:31.000 against the U.S.S.R.?

01:56:32.000 Well, that's it.

01:56:33.000 One day he's our buddy, next day he's not.

01:56:35.000 Jack, comments.

01:56:36.000 Yes, it reminds you of all the statements we have in Operation Vampire Killer 2000 by the money barons of the world, the financial elite of the world.

01:56:47.000 Uh, you know, it's along the same line as, uh, Amschel, Bauer, Rothschild, that give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.

01:56:57.000 The same with funding a nation.

01:56:59.000 If you can cause war, And you fund all sides of the war.

01:57:03.000 You control what's going on.

01:57:05.000 Because, indeed, if you hold the purse strings, they can't go to war, can't win a war.

01:57:11.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:57:11.000 I mean, it's like Bin Laden.

01:57:12.000 They obey what you tell them to do.

01:57:13.000 Bin Laden's the former business associate.

01:57:15.000 They fly his family out to safety.

01:57:17.000 Saddam Hussein.

01:57:18.000 They're arming North Korea with reactors.

01:57:20.000 Thank you, David.

01:57:22.000 Jay in Colorado.

01:57:23.000 You're on the air.

01:57:23.000 Go ahead, Jay.

01:57:26.000 If they had any information on the chemtrail.

01:57:29.000 Because I live in Denver, and I got up this morning, these guys are making X's in this dialogue.

01:57:35.000 I'm not sure if it's anything bad, because it's so blatant.

01:57:38.000 I know there's a couple of airports around here, but... OK, let me get comments from Jack and Craig on... We know there's admitted spraying in the past.

01:57:46.000 Some of this is an aerosol.

01:57:48.000 What's your take on what's going on, gentlemen?

01:57:52.000 Go ahead, Craig.

01:57:54.000 I'd like to hear from a military guy, because it's amazing to me, just the other day again, we had a friend who said, oh, that's just contrails.

01:58:05.000 And I, Craig, I just, and Alex, I just can't believe that anybody has been that non-observant throughout their lifetime to know that a contrail disappears in 30 seconds to a minute And these things last up there for two hours and come and turn into clouds and come down on top of you.

01:58:24.000 Okay, we'll get Craig Roberts, who's a pilot himself, we'll get his take on it when we get back.

01:58:29.000 Third hour.

01:58:30.000 You do not want to miss this third hour, folks.

01:58:32.000 Tell your friends and family to tune in.

01:58:34.000 Call them right now.

01:58:35.000 We're going to come back, get his answer on that, talk to Jay and Mary and Tom, and then we're going to get our guest, our other guest on with both of our other guests.

01:58:44.000 Hello folks, this is Alex Jones.

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01:59:41.000 Not yet available in Iowa.

01:59:53.000 Government cover-ups.

01:59:55.000 You want answers?

01:59:57.000 Well, so does he.

01:59:59.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

02:00:02.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

02:00:08.000 We're going to have a debate about torture coming up here in a few minutes. 0.73

02:00:16.000 We're going to get more into the martial law preparations.

02:00:20.000 The head of the Defense Department saying, you bet your life on it, this is a very serious threat.

02:00:26.000 And I have a stack of articles where they admit the White House and Pentagon have put out false terror alerts to, quote, create hysteria and scare us into submission.

02:00:34.000 More on Mad Cow, just a ton of other news.

02:00:36.000 We're so honored to have Colonel Craig Roberts on with us.

02:00:40.000 And of course, Jack McClam, Police and Military Against the New World Order.

02:00:44.000 Jam-packed show today.

02:00:46.000 Colonel Roberts, the chemtrails.

02:00:47.000 I mean, I remember five years ago a jet flew over at 3,000 feet, didn't leave a trail.

02:00:51.000 Now they do over Austin.

02:00:53.000 Some of the jets won't.

02:00:54.000 One right next to it will, leaves a trail, sits there for five hours.

02:00:58.000 What is going on?

02:01:00.000 whole program just on that, and I have, but I didn't believe in the things until about

02:01:06.000 four years ago when I was doing a radio show on the East Coast and somebody called in and

02:01:11.000 I said, well it's just contrails, you know, it just depends on the weather conditions.

02:01:15.000 Then I walked outside after the show, looked up and there was this fishnet of white over 0.92

02:01:20.000 us and I watched a KC-10 refueler painted totally white, threw the binoculars, do a

02:01:26.000 U-turn and go back and do a weaving pattern on this.

02:01:28.000 So all of a sudden everything changed.

02:01:30.000 I started digging into it and there were several things that were happening, but just very

02:01:34.000 briefly, a lot of the stuff that was coming down had aluminum oxide and other chemicals

02:01:38.000 in it that would cause upper respiratory infections. 0.50

02:01:42.000 The only thing that I could think is that they were trying to test air dispersal patterns

02:01:46.000 in the population for whatever reason, either to get sprayed or to defend us against a biological

02:01:53.000 attack if someone else did it.

02:01:54.000 You know, I'm still clueless on that.

02:01:57.000 But that barium salts and aluminum dioxide is also very bad for your brain.

02:02:02.000 They've tested the fibers and found flu in it.

02:02:05.000 Right, you can use anything.

02:02:06.000 I mean, once they've got the medium to spray it, and the mechanisms to do it, then you can put anything in the tanks.

02:02:13.000 Well, they've been acclimating you up in Oklahoma for months, spraying some telesclopogy Under Homeland Security drills?

02:02:19.000 Well, it's so bad up here that, Alex, we don't have to worry about global warming because we've always got a cloud bank over us now.

02:02:25.000 And it always settles down into a fog, you know?

02:02:27.000 I mean, we feel... By the way, NASA, at the Goddard Center, just said the Earth is now 20% darker with all these bizarre cloud banks.

02:02:35.000 Well, and I wonder where they came from.

02:02:36.000 But the bottom line is, we've traced down some of these airplanes to Arizona, where they originate out of a place called Marana.

02:02:44.000 And there's one of them that came over and had a pine tree painted on its tail.

02:02:50.000 Anybody that's been in the intelligence area knows where that came from.

02:02:53.000 But the bottom line is they are out there.

02:02:55.000 They are spraying stuff that is not a contrail.

02:02:58.000 And I've had military tanker pilots tell me that, hey, that's not us.

02:03:02.000 I don't know what you're talking about.

02:03:03.000 No one's doing that.

02:03:04.000 And I'd turn around and show them the pictures that we've taken and the videotape that we've taken of it, and they're going, gee, I've never seen that.

02:03:09.000 I don't know what that is, but that's not us.

02:03:12.000 So it's not Air Force units because you couldn't keep those guys quiet.

02:03:15.000 I've been assigned to those guys before and worked with them, and they're not going to keep quiet about it.

02:03:19.000 So it's civilian contractors flying military-type tankers and civilian aircraft that have been modified.

02:03:24.000 Well, I was down with my family in Phoenix.

02:03:28.000 I'd left the Rocky Mountains up here where we were being sprayed pretty well and went down to Phoenix and they were being sprayed.

02:03:34.000 And a few days later, my sons and I were down in Mexico diving and they were spraying down there.

02:03:39.000 I'm telling you, I cannot understand the billions of dollars a day.

02:03:45.000 And when I went to Australia and New Zealand, they were spraying down there, brothers.

02:03:49.000 The billions of dollars a day being put out for equipment and for chemicals and for manpower, who can afford this if they're not just cranking up the printing presses?

02:04:03.000 I got email from England from two people over there that sent me an email wanting to know what I know about it because they were getting sprayed in England now.

02:04:11.000 Yeah, it's worldwide and over these years that I've watched this I'm beginning to believe as I'm watching and hearing from people as the Yep, a resonance pattern.

02:04:23.000 We'll be back to have our debate and take your phone calls.

02:04:26.000 around the world that they're using it as a weapon to destroy farming and so forth in 0.89

02:04:32.000 various parts of the country through the harp system off this aluminum particle.

02:04:36.000 Yep, a resonance pattern.

02:04:38.000 We'll be back to have our debate and take your phone calls.

02:04:41.000 Everybody stay with us.

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02:07:48.000 Big Brother Mainstream media.

02:07:54.000 Government cover-ups.

02:07:55.000 You want answers?

02:07:57.000 Well, so does he.

02:07:58.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

02:08:03.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

02:08:09.000 All right, folks.

02:08:11.000 It's Christmas Eve.

02:08:14.000 It's the 24th of December, 2003.

02:08:15.000 We're talking to Colonel Craig Roberts, who's a Marine Corps sniper in Vietnam.

02:08:23.000 Colonel, In the Army, worked in Army Intelligence on the SWAT team, flew helicopters for Major Police Department.

02:08:30.000 He's an expert on the New World Order. 0.76

02:08:32.000 We have another great American, Jack McClam, who is also a veteran himself, and of course, the most highly decorated police officer in Phoenix, Arizona history.

02:08:40.000 He taught at the Police Academy as well, was wounded in the line of duty, you name it.

02:08:44.000 He's been speaking out for 20 plus years against the New World Order.

02:08:48.000 And I had them both coming on the show today, and then I started getting some calls on air from Monday's show, A couple of callers called in and said there's this Rabbi, Yaakov Spivak, who's on one of your affiliates, a fine affiliate, 1360, on the flagship station of the

02:09:05.000 America Freedom Network who is saying in some cases torture might be okay and I said well I don't know if he said that I don't know who the guy is but I might want to have him on the air and debate that and discuss that I was pretty congenial about it and supposedly my office has been getting some calls but I my staff's been out because they're well one of my people's on the vacation so I haven't been checking the messages and so I got a call on air though well you know this you know folks want to debate you so I said hey well let's let's get in touch with him right now And to have him on, but I don't even know what his views are yet, because I've never heard him on the radio, don't know anything about him.

02:09:39.000 So now we're going to find out, and we can all have a discussion.

02:09:42.000 Colonel Roberts and Jack McClam, Alex Jones, and Yakko Spivak, the rabbi.

02:09:48.000 And Yakko, good to have you on the show today.

02:09:52.000 How are you, Alex?

02:09:53.000 I'm good.

02:09:55.000 Tell us exactly, just so I know, what your views are, because I don't want to just keep hearing it from listeners.

02:10:00.000 I'd like to hear it from you.

02:10:02.000 Well, what I said on the air was that there is a scenario in which Saddam Hussein knew where a hundred American boys and girls in uniform would be blown up by a bomb, and he said he wasn't going to tell us.

02:10:23.000 And there was no other way to get that information out of him except to torture him.

02:10:28.000 So, I said if there was no other way, then we would have to do it, and in such a case, then we would have to go ahead and do it that way in order to save those boys and girls.

02:10:38.000 Well, Rabbi, look, I've seen the law enforcement publications for years.

02:10:42.000 This is the This is the psychological program they use of, oh, somebody's about to release smallpox or anthrax.

02:10:50.000 We can torture them. 0.85

02:10:51.000 The answer is, let's torture. 0.96

02:10:53.000 But then I look at the bigger, global umbrella.

02:10:56.000 This is the group that's creating the Saddams, that's funding the Stalins, that the School of America's teaching. 0.99

02:11:02.000 the torture at Fort Benning, Georgia. And you know, if we start down that road, open that Pandora's box,

02:11:10.000 you know, we're all being given these moral questions of moral relativism. Okay, well,

02:11:15.000 is torture okay sometimes? And I say, no, it's absolutely not okay.

02:11:20.000 Now to tell somebody, if this bomb goes off and you're involved, you're going to be charged with a death penalty, and you're going to be executed, you better talk. 0.74

02:11:27.000 We'll go easy on you.

02:11:29.000 That's one thing, and that statistically, and I've heard the experts on this, will get answers better than pulling somebody's teeth out with pliers.

02:11:38.000 I have absolutely no idea what you just said.

02:11:41.000 I just told you what my scenario was.

02:11:47.000 And I want to get at least three words in before you're next.

02:11:52.000 And I told you what my scenario was.

02:11:55.000 I can back it up biblically, because I heard that someone said that scripture doesn't allow it.

02:12:03.000 And, you know, the case is simple.

02:12:07.000 They've just blown up today the Sheraton Hotel in Baghdad, I'm sure you've heard.

02:12:12.000 Uh, and there's a pilot, there was just a plane that was cancelled from coming in from outside of America.

02:12:18.000 To land, I believe, in LAX.

02:12:20.000 Rabbi, Rabbi, Rabbi, you just said three words, but about fifty, but the point is, here is, I believe the military-industrial complex carried out September 11th, and I have the evidence of that, so you've got people who've been caught putting out fake terror alerts, you've got people who've been caught saying we need terrorist attacks to get the people behind this, and I'm saying look at it all in context.

02:12:45.000 I guess you think Do you think that the Globalists weren't involved in 9-11? 0.94

02:12:49.000 Mr. Jones, you invited me on your program because of a one statement that I made.

02:12:55.000 I'm trying to stick to it, and you're giving me a hard time about that, but I like to stick to the statement.

02:12:59.000 But that's a classic tactic I get from people.

02:13:01.000 Not a classic tactic, it's basic logic that when someone... Basic logic.

02:13:05.000 You ask a person a question, that then when you start to go on to other topics, the person can't answer the question.

02:13:11.000 Okay, how can we say Saddam Hussein is evil because he tortured people if we're having discussions of torturing him?

02:13:17.000 The reason that I was asked on this program was because I said that if there was only one way to save American boys and girls in uniform, to find out where he had that particular bomb that was to torture him, I said scripturally it would be required.

02:13:37.000 I'll let you go over that, Rabbi Spivak, Yaakov Spivak, but my point here is is that when we look at this honestly i'm not saying you're

02:13:47.000 doing this but the media is and the government is using the very type uh scenarios that you're

02:13:52.000 bringing forward to prepare us to accept torture uh as a new accepted uh moral system in america

02:14:02.000 and well there are times when torture is permitted and i

02:14:08.000 I would like to explain it to you.

02:14:10.000 Okay, well, you can do that in just a second.

02:14:13.000 And of course, sir, you're on my show and I appreciate you coming on.

02:14:15.000 I don't want to be on your show.

02:14:17.000 I'd come on if you wanted me to, but this is a forum here.

02:14:20.000 And so let's bring in Jack McClam, police against the new world order, who's been there,

02:14:26.000 police officer, a veteran, you name it.

02:14:28.000 Jack, any comments to the rabbi?

02:14:31.000 I'm a military veteran, as Craig is, and now a retired law enforcement person, as Brother

02:14:39.000 Craig is.

02:14:40.000 And so we've seen it from that side, and I've seen torture in my career, and I've always

02:14:49.000 understood that if, and this has happened where I had brother officers threatened with

02:14:57.000 death and we were asked to do certain things.

02:15:02.000 We refused to do it, to save the lives of our fellow police officers out there, because it was suggested that this might happen if we don't do these things.

02:15:11.000 And I don't believe we were wrong.

02:15:13.000 It didn't happen.

02:15:15.000 Those scenarios didn't happen, praise God.

02:15:17.000 But there has to be a line drawn between the civilized people of the world and those that are not civilized.

02:15:24.000 And I think the American people, from the beginning of this nation, chose the right side of not getting into torture.

02:15:31.000 And it's worked very well for us over these years to be the example for the rest of the world.

02:15:36.000 Well, take the warping of the German people. 0.99

02:15:38.000 It began with, you know, small things and then led into the horrors.

02:15:43.000 Colonel Roberts, any comments?

02:15:45.000 Well, you know, like we said earlier, and I don't know if the rabbi heard it, I don't know if he was listening on the radio or not, but, you know, my stand on it from the military aspect is, you know, war is different than civilian life here.

02:15:56.000 There is no Fifth Amendment for prisoners overseas.

02:15:58.000 They do have the right to incriminate themselves, so to speak.

02:16:02.000 And there's a big difference between coercion and bribing, deprivation of rights and privileges, psychological leverage, whatever it takes to get information short of physical abuse.

02:16:12.000 Once we cross the line into physical abuse, then what we've done is we've done the same thing the enemy has and we're no better than they are and it can come back to haunt us because should a prisoner escape or be let loose and go back and say, look what the Americans did to me, Then all of a sudden, if they've got any of our prisoners, they're going to do worse.

02:16:27.000 So that's a very fine line right there, and one we shouldn't cross.

02:16:30.000 Well, I mean, that's the argument of Fidel Castro and of people like Saddam is, well, these evil Shiites are going to take over if we don't torture them to get the answers. 1.00

02:16:41.000 Rabbi, go ahead. 0.88

02:16:42.000 Let me give you another scenario, Alex.

02:16:46.000 Suppose you were to step onto a plane tomorrow, and Uh, all of the safeguards on that plane were not enough.

02:16:55.000 And NORAD stood down for an hour and 25 minutes and warned public officials not to fly again?

02:17:00.000 Well, you want to continue the scenario, go ahead.

02:17:02.000 Well, no, I mean, come on!

02:17:03.000 Let me, let me, let me, let me just say what I want to say.

02:17:06.000 Okay.

02:17:07.000 And you were, you were on the, um, you were on the plane Uh, and one of the hijackers was from Al-Qaeda, came in, shot the pilot, set the plane to automatic pilot for the House of Representatives.

02:17:24.000 The Congresses evidently had them, came out, locked the door.

02:17:27.000 Put a combination lock on it and said, I'm not going to let you get in there to try to move the plane away from that. 0.59

02:17:35.000 You're all going to die. 1.00

02:17:37.000 You're going to kill the people and the Congress. 1.00

02:17:39.000 The only way, and the end of my question is, and the end of my question is, and the only 0.99

02:17:45.000 way to get that information about that combination lock would be to torture him.

02:17:49.000 What would you do, Alex?

02:17:50.000 Well, let me answer the question.

02:17:52.000 Number one, they wouldn't come out and say, we're going to do this, because that's not what they do.

02:17:56.000 Number two, somebody who's about to kill themselves isn't going to answer your questions under any level of torture.

02:18:02.000 It takes weeks to break people like that.

02:18:05.000 And number three, I believe the military industrial complex carried out Operation Northwoods on September 11th.

02:18:11.000 Colonel and Jack?

02:18:13.000 Well, yeah, let me hit that, because I know where the rabbi's coming from on this one. 0.96

02:18:18.000 I'm coming in a little bit different angle.

02:18:19.000 I have to agree with some of what he's saying, too, in the sense that that airplane now becomes a battle zone.

02:18:25.000 You are in combat at that time to save your lives, the lives of the passengers, and the target destination.

02:18:31.000 Obviously, the airplane can't be set on automatic pilot for a given place like that.

02:18:36.000 Being a pilot, I know this, but given a scenario that says it could, Yeah, I'd take this guy down and I would beat him senseless if I thought I could save our lives and get in the cockpit, but that is a battle that has just been engaged at that point.

02:18:48.000 Yeah, but Craig, now we're in the war on terror every day, is that?

02:18:51.000 That's what they're telling the police.

02:18:52.000 Well, there's a difference between having a prisoner for a long period of time, in which, you know, you've got this guy, he's not going anyplace, there's no imminent danger right then.

02:19:02.000 He may know stuff that you want to know, We can work on that without having to physically abuse him, which they would in turn do to our prisoners.

02:19:10.000 It's a different scenario.

02:19:11.000 But what the Rabbi just outlined, yeah, I think anybody would be...

02:19:15.000 Uh, uh, uh, authorized to defend yourself just like the same way, you know, if, if, if your wife gets attacked at the mall.

02:19:22.000 See, but Craig, Craig, Craig, that's the moral, uh, I mean, that's right out of the handbook, though.

02:19:26.000 That's what they're telling the police and the military as they legitimize it full scale.

02:19:31.000 You've just opened Pandora's box.

02:19:32.000 Let me take it one step further, if I may.

02:19:34.000 Well, we got a break.

02:19:35.000 Sure.

02:19:35.000 Well, you can go one step further when we get back and we'll get Jack McClam's comment on this because, no, we're not going to open that Pandora's box, folks.

02:19:42.000 This government can't be trusted, period.

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02:23:46.000 He's the T-Rex of political talk.

02:23:49.000 Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

02:23:54.000 Dozens of major crime labs, including the FBI crime lab, the Houston crime lab, the Chicago crime lab, have been caught framing people on an industrial scale.

02:24:06.000 All the time, police get caught torturing suspects.

02:24:10.000 Police, it turns out, that are drug dealers themselves.

02:24:14.000 Think of the teams out in LA.

02:24:17.000 And once you open this box, we're hearing this argument in the sitcoms, and the dramas, and on the news, and the heroes torture people to get the answers, to save everybody, while we've got a torturing to save New York, or to save whatever.

02:24:30.000 Again, it's being sold to us.

02:24:33.000 and uh... it's it's amazing and now we are discussions of mass roundup camps and major publications and martial law but it's to save us it's to keep us safe uh... we're gonna go back to the rabbi here in a second but i want to get jack mcclamb to be able to give us his take on what the rabbi's been saying go ahead well the rabbi gives us a scenario that i would imagine uh... this is a fight or flight scenario it's a uh... imminent uh... right to self-defense scenario he's talking about it

02:25:05.000 if i were to look around at my fellow passengers say should we try to torture

02:25:09.000 this guy to get this

02:25:10.000 combination probably a hundred percent with that

02:25:14.000 it's fine let's do it now That's not saying that we should have a government policy where it's okay to torture people.

02:25:23.000 That's a whole different scenario.

02:25:25.000 I never implied that.

02:25:26.000 Hold on a second, Rabbi.

02:25:29.000 It's like struggling with somebody to get the keys away from them.

02:25:33.000 That's a fight right there, but that's the argument being sold to institutionalize torture and there is an attempt to do this.

02:25:40.000 Go ahead, Rabbi.

02:25:42.000 All right, let me just base it in Scripture one moment.

02:25:46.000 First, just give me two minutes here.

02:25:48.000 Number one, Scripture says that if you find, and people will find that, Exodus 22.1, that says that if a robber comes into your basement, Uh, you're allowed to kill him.

02:26:00.000 You're allowed to do anything else to save your life, including torture, as implied by that, because of the fact that the, that the, that the robber under, under scripture law is called Agabra Katila.

02:26:09.000 He's a dead man walking, because he knows you're gonna kill him.

02:26:11.000 Why would you torture somebody when you were just defending yourself? 1.00

02:26:14.000 Well, if you can kill him, okay? 0.94

02:26:17.000 No, no, it doesn't work. 1.00

02:26:18.000 can kill him. In other words, I'm drawing the analogy and then I'll go. It doesn't work. 0.98

02:26:24.000 If you don't let me draw it, I'm not going to be able to defend it. The number one, you

02:26:30.000 have the right to kill someone who comes in your basement. 0.98

02:26:32.000 And I'm sure many of your listeners will say that. Number two, if you look in the second place 0.91

02:26:37.000 in Leviticus 19, 16, it says thou shalt not stand idly by thy brother's blood. That

02:26:43.000 means that if you see someone who is about to kill someone else, you have the right to do

02:26:49.000 anything you can to prevent that person from killing.

02:26:52.000 That person is called a Rodef in Hebrew, which means a pursuer.

02:26:56.000 And in these cases that I described of Saddam Hussein, he is about to kill somebody else. 0.54

02:27:03.000 And scripture, in scripture, Leviticus 19, 16 says, you shall not stand idly by your brothers, but gives you the right to save that man's life.

02:27:12.000 Saddam Hussein was stuck down in a little Spider hole, now it's coming out and been captured by the Kurds for weeks. 0.99

02:27:19.000 And so your scenario again, which is let's just think about torture.

02:27:23.000 And then you're sitting there saying, oh, robbers in your house.

02:27:26.000 It says you can torture them.

02:27:27.000 What you just read didn't say torture.

02:27:29.000 It said defend yourself.

02:27:31.000 It said defend yourself.

02:27:33.000 And there were two issues here.

02:27:34.000 The first issue is on a personal level, you're allowed to kill someone if they're threatening you.

02:27:39.000 And the second issue is you're allowed to kill someone who's going to kill someone else. 0.71

02:27:44.000 And if it takes killing, you're allowed to do, fine. 0.78

02:27:46.000 If it takes torture, you're allowed to do it, fine.

02:27:49.000 Killing someone else to prevent... And see for you, it's not just... From killing person C, you are allowed to torture person B, and that is the right of the scripture and the Judeo-Christian ethic. 0.60

02:28:02.000 Wait a minute, I always hear people say that Al-Qaeda's evil, they torture people.

02:28:05.000 But I guess they're evil, so their torture's bad.

02:28:08.000 Our torture would be good.

02:28:09.000 The Bible, which is a source of ethics for man, says You are required to stop person B from killing person C. And if you don't do it, you have a certain responsibility.

02:28:22.000 This smoky secret government agency that can go out and torture people.

02:28:26.000 Did I mention anything about the government?

02:28:29.000 I narrowed my scenario to the parameters which I have defined and you're taking it somewhere that I never even mentioned.

02:28:35.000 Ending the government torturing Saddam, that's who'd do it. 0.63

02:28:37.000 I said, because of a direct situation, a person be trying to kill a hundred other people.

02:28:44.000 That's the scenario, okay?

02:28:47.000 Let me get a comment here.

02:28:48.000 I mean, look, overall, it's opening Pandora's box here, folks.

02:28:54.000 And this is the argument that we've heard throughout history, and I believe from the scriptures you read, you're taking that out of context and deriving things, going, it's inferred.

02:29:03.000 Gentlemen, any comments?

02:29:06.000 Well, as a law enforcement person, I mean, it is such a reach what the rabbi says here in the scriptures about self-defense being allowing torturing.

02:29:18.000 I can see me as an officer going into a house and a lady has been accosted by a burglar and I come in and to defend herself, she cut him up in little inch pieces and has him on the table laid out there.

02:29:31.000 I mean, that's, you know, you open a box like this.

02:29:33.000 Yeah, you become them.

02:29:36.000 We're on the march, the empire's on the run.

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02:32:45.000 Folks, we have a government that's engaged in 50 million abortions. 1.00

02:33:00.000 We have a government that frames people, that puts viruses in the vaccines.

02:33:06.000 We have a government that's tested chemical and biologicals on our troops, lets them breathe depleted uranium by the thousands.

02:33:11.000 Their own side just admits it's killing them.

02:33:13.000 They could care less about the troops, okay?

02:33:16.000 So you've got to look at this all in total.

02:33:18.000 You cannot have this government coming in with any type of torture system.

02:33:22.000 Now certainly, as Colonel Roberts said, And I agree with the rabbi that this magic scenario happened where the plane was on remote control and you had to make the guy do something.

02:33:34.000 That is fight or flight.

02:33:35.000 That is combat.

02:33:36.000 But see, the argument is we've got a war on drugs.

02:33:38.000 That's why you don't have any rights.

02:33:40.000 A war on terror.

02:33:41.000 See, that's why the rights don't exist.

02:33:42.000 Oh, see, we are at war.

02:33:44.000 It is a war scenario.

02:33:45.000 This is the argument.

02:33:46.000 Now look at those pushing.

02:33:47.000 And I'm not talking about the rabbi, Yaakov Spivak.

02:33:51.000 I'm talking about the New World Order crowd that I see on the news giggling and laughing about torture and how wonderful it is.

02:33:58.000 We become the Saddam Hussein. 0.99

02:34:00.000 We become the Joseph Mengele.

02:34:02.000 I want to get into some other news and a bunch of calls, and I want Colonel Roberts and Jack McClann to be able to plug the great stuff they have to offer, the videos, the books, all of it, the newsletters.

02:34:13.000 And I want to get to some of this other news, more on the mad cow, the martial law news, all of it, and the callers, Mary and Tom and Spencer and others have been holding for an hour.

02:34:21.000 Uh, but, uh, real quick, Jack McClam, finish up what you were saying, then Colonel Roberts, then I'm gonna let the Rabbi have a few comments, and then Pastor Butch Paul on this network has some comments about scripture.

02:34:32.000 Uh, we're gonna bring him up last and let our guests go.

02:34:34.000 Uh, but, uh, go ahead, Jack McClam, finish what you were saying, because that's, that's what I was thinking of. 0.70

02:34:40.000 It's like, you come in, This man tried to rape this woman, or robber, and she's got him on the rack, breaking his back.

02:34:50.000 She's committing a crime greater than his robbery. 1.00

02:34:53.000 You can kill him to defend yourself, but you don't put him down in the basement as your slave or whatever, because they're the walking dead. 0.99

02:34:59.000 They're no longer human. 1.00

02:35:01.000 Go ahead, Jack McClam.

02:35:02.000 Yes, the Bible, you can't equate the biblical right to self-defense with torture.

02:35:10.000 You know, the Bible does not say anywhere that in self-defense you have a right to torture people to death, or torture them near death even.

02:35:19.000 And so, I think that if we go that way in our society, we are no different than the heathen out there.

02:35:26.000 And that's the truth.

02:35:27.000 The scenario is, if we accept that, then that little lady who's been burgled And is in fear of her life, can do anything she wants to to that guy because she's in fear of her life. 0.78

02:35:38.000 Well, I go back to what the Italian head of the Federal Police said in the seventies when communists rebrigaded, kidnapped the president.

02:35:45.000 And they said, let's torture him.

02:35:47.000 And he said, no, we can handle the loss of the president.

02:35:49.000 We cannot handle introducing torture in Italy.

02:35:53.000 Amen.

02:35:54.000 That's right.

02:35:56.000 Colonel Roberts, comments on this subject?

02:35:58.000 Well, I think, you know, it goes back to and the golden rule of do undo others as you would have

02:36:03.000 been doing to you know understanding that if you go to war with somebody

02:36:07.000 you can expect that if you get captured they're gonna want to uh... make you

02:36:10.000 talk so to speak and you're going to the same thing if you capture them

02:36:14.000 and a terrorist environment if you can if you can get the information you need to save lives

02:36:19.000 uh... up to a certain point uh... they would follow that you know if they

02:36:23.000 capture me i don't want to do this to make a deal uh... then i think that's perfectly understandable i think

02:36:28.000 you know what there's precedent

02:36:30.000 and there's precedent biblically to say you come clean about what you know right now it will 0.99

02:36:36.000 go easy on you You don't physically do it, but you go, if you don't, you're going to have the blood on your hands and we're going to execute you. 0.91

02:36:42.000 Well, let me give you another scenario. 1.00

02:36:45.000 You know that the Muslims are terrified of pigs. 0.99

02:36:49.000 And if you have a prisoner there and you parade a pig around out there and you have somebody digging a hole in the ground and you walk up to the guy and you say, you know what? 1.00

02:36:57.000 If you make the Colonel mad, there's a good possibility that they're going to end up having to shoot you and throw you in the hole with that pig and you're going to go to hell and burn for eternity. 0.99

02:37:07.000 That guy's going to start talking. 1.00

02:37:08.000 You haven't done anything.

02:37:09.000 You haven't laid a hand on him, but that's coercing him into something.

02:37:13.000 Is that torture?

02:37:14.000 I don't think so.

02:37:15.000 I think that's psychological.

02:37:18.000 Uh, operations on being able to get information at him. 0.91

02:37:21.000 But if you take this guy out and you beat him to a pulp and then cut a pig open and throw it on him, that's gone too far.

02:37:27.000 You've actually carried out something that is physical abuse. 0.84

02:37:33.000 Rabbi, we've been so honored to have you on.

02:37:37.000 You've got some final comments here and then I want to bring Pastor Butch up real quick to talk to you.

02:37:43.000 What I meant, Alex, by the fact that finding a robber in your basement, you could do two things. 1.00

02:37:49.000 You could either shoot him through the head and kill him, or you could hit him with a baseball bat and he'd have torture in his brain all his life. 1.00

02:37:57.000 So that's a scenario that I think one could consider. 1.00

02:38:00.000 However, what I'm saying is you have guests on your program today that were given Given weapons to defend their country, to defend their city as law enforcement officials.

02:38:12.000 Sometimes if they use that weapon, if they don't use the weapon when they should have, they could be brought up on charges.

02:38:18.000 And sometimes when they use the weapon when they shouldn't have, they should be brought up on charges.

02:38:24.000 So we give them a weapon because we're reasonable people and we can delineate reasonable rules and regulations without having to come on to paranoid pictorials.

02:38:35.000 Well, we're in tyranny right now, and we're losing our freedoms.

02:38:38.000 There's no question that the government is pushing, taking away our freedoms.

02:38:43.000 You and I do not argue about that.

02:38:45.000 The Patriot Act makes me uneasy as well, too.

02:38:48.000 as a jew i'd i'd know my relatives that came from from countries where where

02:38:53.000 their rights were taken away okay that there's no question about that my

02:38:56.000 concern is to save a bit of the and the final thing i want to say is my concern

02:39:01.000 to save the lives of american servicemen we're only thinking about uh... the other

02:39:05.000 guy we only think about the rights of the perpetrator but what about those

02:39:08.000 boys and girls and what we have to do to save them i'm talking about the souls of the people

02:39:12.000 I'm talking about the soul of our nation.

02:39:14.000 Let's bring, and I'm going to put our other guests on hold because we can't have five people up at once.

02:39:19.000 I'm going to put Craig and Jack on hold for just a few minutes.

02:39:22.000 Pastor Butch, Paul, you're on the air.

02:39:26.000 How you doing?

02:39:27.000 Fine.

02:39:28.000 I won't stay on long.

02:39:29.000 I just had a comment on this.

02:39:31.000 I have been preaching the gospel of Christ for 27, 28 years, and the Bible is my life.

02:39:38.000 With all due respect to the rabbi, I have never heard such a twisting of the scriptures in my life to stretch it to the point where you can go on to prove what he has to say.

02:39:45.000 That's the most absurd statement I've ever heard, to take those two scriptures.

02:39:49.000 I've preached them many times in the light of self-defense or defense of others.

02:39:52.000 There is no biblical ground And I will state that equivocally, no questions, no way to get around this. 0.76

02:40:03.000 There's no grounds for torture.

02:40:05.000 There's none.

02:40:06.000 If there were, then when they tortured the disciples, when they tortured Christ, then they were doing absolutely right, obviously, because there's nothing wrong with torture.

02:40:12.000 And you and I both know, as anyone who knows the Scriptures knows, that the torture is absolutely ungodly, and we'll send the torture to hell for doing that job.

02:40:24.000 Well, in fact, if I can comment on this, I respectfully disagree with the Revenant as one who, as a rabbi who has studied the scripture in its original in Hebrew, and understand the nuances, instead of waiting for it to be translated into English, I can say unequivocally that if somebody is trying to kill another person, That the scripture will hold you responsible if you don't do anything and everything to prevent person B from killing person C, including torture, and not only do I say it is permitted, I say it is required.

02:40:57.000 That's where we disagree.

02:40:59.000 I agree 100%.

02:41:00.000 By the way, I also study Greek and Hebrew, the background, I study it deeply.

02:41:06.000 Let me ask you one question, Reverend.

02:41:07.000 know this that yes that to defend others is absolutely poor proverbs twenty

02:41:12.000 four eleven twelve says so in torture someone

02:41:15.000 uh... that there's no there's no right given for that at all asking one

02:41:18.000 question reverend if you saw one person it under the scenario that i have described

02:41:24.000 that if that the only way to save those american boys and girls in uniform was

02:41:28.000 to torture the information out of out of saddam hussein you're telling you wouldn't do it

02:41:32.000 Is that right?

02:41:33.000 Stop right there.

02:41:34.000 Look, I'm going to explain this.

02:41:36.000 I've got to make some comments here.

02:41:38.000 It is a Pandora's box.

02:41:40.000 You become Saddam Hussein the moment you start pulling his toenails and fingernails out. 0.97

02:41:46.000 You can't trust a system that will torture or the information you get from the torture.

02:41:52.000 You'll have to accept Joseph Mingala and Joseph Stalin as good guys if you do that. 0.87

02:42:01.000 And reasonable men can see the difference between Joseph Mingle and Justice Brandeis.

02:42:05.000 Reasonable people can't.

02:42:07.000 You can't throw away a right for a person to exist and survive because you're afraid maybe, maybe, maybe something's going to happen.

02:42:13.000 That's not the way America works.

02:42:16.000 You cannot stoop to the level of a heathen to bring any justice.

02:42:19.000 No, Reverend, then I'm saying you would not torture, you would let those boys and you girls die rather than torture Saddam Hussein. 0.74

02:42:25.000 Yes, sir. 0.52

02:42:26.000 We murder 4,000 babies a day.

02:42:28.000 Hold on a second.

02:42:29.000 Hold on.

02:42:29.000 One at a time.

02:42:30.000 Go ahead.

02:42:31.000 We murder 4,000 babies a day by pure torture.

02:42:34.000 Are you out torturing people to stop that?

02:42:37.000 No.

02:42:37.000 So if you want to defend the unborn, don't tell me how you defend those who walk the street.

02:42:43.000 First of all, your assumption is that I'm pro-abortion.

02:42:46.000 No, no, no.

02:42:47.000 Reverend, would you just answer my question so that our audience can understand where you're coming from?

02:42:51.000 Absolutely.

02:42:52.000 Would you or would you not let those boys and girls in uniform die under the scenario that I have described?

02:42:58.000 I would never.

02:42:59.000 suit the level of the beast that I'm trying to conquer. No.

02:43:02.000 And you write letters to their mothers and fathers and try to justify it to them. There's

02:43:06.000 no justification of doing wrong.

02:43:08.000 You can never get right out of wrong. There is no, no one in the scripture you find where the

02:43:12.000 Lord God said you may do wrong to get right. If you told them something. If the scripture says

02:43:17.000 he, and then the scripture implies he who comes to slay you, slay him first. That's exactly right.

02:43:22.000 Self-defense, the defense of others. If the, if, if.

02:43:25.000 Absolutely. 1.00

02:43:25.000 You become the beast that you're trying to kill and that will take you to hell. 1.00

02:43:29.000 totally unbiblical and is not. I totally disagree. Because every time you cross that line you 0.95

02:43:34.000 descend into tyranny. Absolutely. You become the beast that you're trying to kill and that

02:43:39.000 will take you down. You become a merciful person who won't let good boys and girls down.

02:43:44.000 Look, let me use a Lord of the Rings analogy because that's a real hot movie right now.

02:43:48.000 You can't beat Mordor with the ring. You can't put the ring on to defeat the system.

02:43:55.000 You cannot defeat the beast with the ring.

02:43:57.000 What you are saying, Alex, is that this murderer of children, Saddam Hussein, has more right to exist than our boys and girls in uniform. 0.53

02:44:05.000 How could you say something like that?

02:44:07.000 Rabbi, Rabbi, you have to have this, you have to have discernment and knowledge of the whole to make the decision.

02:44:12.000 Let me finish, let me finish.

02:44:17.000 Sir, let me just finish and then I'll let you have the last word.

02:44:19.000 Thank you, Pastor Butch.

02:44:20.000 Let me just make this point here.

02:44:24.000 Saddam Hussein was the fist of the New World Order in that region. 0.95

02:44:27.000 They put him in power.

02:44:28.000 They told him to attack Iran.

02:44:29.000 They told him to go ahead and go into Kuwait.

02:44:31.000 They trained his Republican Guard at Fort Benning, Georgia, in torture.

02:44:35.000 So to sit there and to say, let's torture Saddam, but let's not punish those that empowered him is, again, you're not looking at the big picture. 0.79

02:44:48.000 From your position, you would let those boys and girls die and let Saddam live? 0.90

02:44:53.000 I would stop torturing them with depleted uranium.

02:44:55.000 And again, you have this, you have this, you know, this, oh, let's eat the apple here.

02:45:01.000 You know, we've got to do this to stop it.

02:45:03.000 You've got a hypothetical scenario.

02:45:06.000 You understand?

02:45:07.000 But this scenario happens every day.

02:45:09.000 When they bombed the Sheraton Hotel today, Alex, when they bombed that Sheraton Hotel, somebody in the upper echelons knew about it.

02:45:17.000 And if we could have gotten to them, we would have saved lives.

02:45:21.000 Saddam didn't even have a radio.

02:45:23.000 You think he was running this?

02:45:25.000 Saddam had much information on him and there is information out there that says that he was controlling it.

02:45:34.000 Rabbi, hey listen, I want to have you back up in a month or so to have this debate again and I appreciate you coming on.

02:45:40.000 Thank you for having me.

02:45:42.000 The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and we become that which we fight when we step into the darkness, and I think you're wrong, but I appreciate you coming on to defend your ideas.

02:45:51.000 Thank you for defending yours, or trying to.

02:45:53.000 I appreciate it.

02:45:54.000 I defended them quite successfully, don't worry.

02:45:56.000 I'll be getting calls for weeks on this agreeing with me.

02:46:00.000 Let's go back to Jack McClam for a final comment, and Craig Roberts, go ahead.

02:46:05.000 I think Pastor Butch Paul said it right.

02:46:10.000 It is never good to do evil to do good.

02:46:12.000 You know, that's something we must always remember because we see this happening in other nations where nations have been under a different belief system, not a Christian system, believe it's good to do evil if your goal is good.

02:46:29.000 This is the epitome of the system we've now adopted in the United States.

02:46:34.000 The end justifies the means.

02:46:37.000 And it is wrong for a Christian America, but it is absolutely correct for the kind of nation we're becoming. 1.00

02:46:44.000 And that's a barbaric nation that will have a totalitarian world system. 0.99

02:46:49.000 Well, I mean, Bush's point about, are we going to torture the abortionists because of what they're doing?

02:46:55.000 Well, let's look at this, too. 0.88

02:46:57.000 Old Bush is always saying, well, they had rape centers down there, and Saddam had these rape rooms. 0.64

02:47:04.000 Well, what's wrong with that if we're going to say torture is okay? 0.99

02:47:09.000 Why not rape the women to get the answers out of them? 1.00

02:47:11.000 That's what Saddam, he at least has alleged that he's been doing. 0.99

02:47:15.000 Yeah, Craig, comments?

02:47:17.000 Well, anytime you buy a ticket on the Devil's Train, you expect to go to one destination only, and it's going to be one you don't like.

02:47:24.000 It's always downhill.

02:47:27.000 Once you start using physical abuse, going back to Leviticus, if you go to Leviticus, there's a hundred things in there that's a death sentence.

02:47:35.000 But there's nothing in there about torturing anybody.

02:47:38.000 In fact, Jesus was against torture when he talked about the people piling the stones on the prostitute and stoning people.

02:47:48.000 Stoning is a form of execution, but it was torture because it took so long.

02:47:53.000 And he was against those things.

02:47:56.000 It's kind of a gray area.

02:47:59.000 There's not a black and white answer when it comes to crossing that line.

02:48:02.000 You either do it or you don't do it.

02:48:04.000 And like Brother Jack said, you cross that line one time, it's almost a one-way door.

02:48:09.000 How do you get back from it?

02:48:11.000 And we just don't want to go there as a nation because, like you say, you can't put the ring on to fight evil when the ring is evil itself.

02:48:18.000 That's it, Timmy.

02:48:19.000 You put that ring on, folks.

02:48:20.000 You become it instantly.

02:48:22.000 Let's take a few calls.

02:48:23.000 Let's talk to Mary in Oklahoma. 1.00

02:48:25.000 Mary, you're on the air.

02:48:26.000 Go ahead.

02:48:26.000 Thank you for holding.

02:48:27.000 I think this whole torture thing, you know, in regards to Saddam Hussein and the evil people in Iraq is that it's supposed to make every single person in Europe hate us.

02:48:45.000 Because, you know, they get all the... They see all the bad things that we're doing.

02:48:51.000 Just to make the UN look good, exactly.

02:48:54.000 I'll tell you, she's very brilliant to think of that, because she's absolutely right.

02:48:58.000 Well, I look at it differently.

02:49:00.000 The Europeans already hate us. 0.99

02:49:01.000 I'm not too worried about the Europeans.

02:49:03.000 What I'm worried about is the American citizens, and I'm also worried about the enemy.

02:49:06.000 Because what happens when the word gets out that we tortured some Muslim suspect, And then an American soldier disappears from walking down the street some night and we get him back in little pieces outside the main gate the next morning.

02:49:20.000 We don't want that to happen.

02:49:22.000 And then we can't say they're bad.

02:49:24.000 We don't want to give them any excuses to do to us any type of torture stuff either.

02:49:29.000 If they're going to do it, let's don't instigate it.

02:49:32.000 Brother Craig, you're right on because how can we then say that what they did to our brother was wrong when we're doing it ourselves?

02:49:40.000 Absolutely.

02:49:42.000 Folks, it's simple and it shows how far we've gone.

02:49:44.000 Americans a decade ago would all tell you torture was wrong.

02:49:48.000 Now they've made it so chic and fashionable that it's twisting good people's minds. 0.75

02:49:54.000 I'm telling you folks, it's so sick.

02:49:56.000 It's just... Thank you, Mary.

02:49:58.000 We'll come back and talk to Tom and Spencer and plug you guys' contact info, Colonel Roberts and Jack McClam.

02:50:03.000 An amazing, an amazing show today.

02:50:07.000 Rumsfeld says, you know, bet your life on it, it's the biggest threat ever.

02:50:12.000 And then I look at the evidence of who's carrying out the terror, I look at who's pushing torture from the establishment, and it's very, very serious.

02:50:19.000 Very.

02:50:20.000 Very.

02:50:21.000 Serious.

02:50:23.000 And Pandora's box is already open.

02:50:27.000 This is upon us now, not next week, not next year.

02:50:31.000 And the moral people of America had better say no to torture.

02:50:35.000 We'll be right back after this quick break with our guest, a couple more calls and some key contact info.

02:50:40.000 I'll tell you how to get my videos too, so get ready for that.

02:50:46.000 Alex Jones here, announcing the release of my new film, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.

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02:53:42.000 Two weeks after 9-11 in 2001, the Associated Press did a poll in New York.

02:53:57.000 And the majority of women, 60 plus percent, were for torture, for putting all the Arabs in concentration camps. 0.94

02:54:04.000 It said concentration camps.

02:54:06.000 It was like 35 percent of men.

02:54:10.000 And so the globalists carry out these attacks, get us so scared, and now camps, torture, all this.

02:54:15.000 They start putting it into the group consciousness, this is the solution, this will keep you safe, we must do this.

02:54:22.000 Well, it's the globalists doing it all to begin with, creating the Saddam's, creating the Bin Laden's, giving the nuclear reactors in North Korea.

02:54:29.000 Before we go to Tom in Iowa, and that'll be the last caller, I do want to encourage everybody to get 9-11 Road to Tyranny, Masters of Terror, Police States, Retotal Enslavement, my new film Matrix of Evil that has Colonel Roberts in it by the way.

02:54:41.000 Let me get you a copy of that, Craig.

02:54:43.000 Everybody needs to get these videos.

02:54:45.000 They're over two hours long apiece.

02:54:48.000 Order three or more, they drop down to $20.

02:54:49.000 Your purchase also makes this show possible.

02:54:52.000 The films are waking people up.

02:54:53.000 Call right now.

02:54:55.000 Don't wait.

02:54:55.000 Get these videos.

02:54:56.000 1-888-253-3139.

02:55:03.000 That's 888-253-3139, or prisonplanet.com, or infowars.com.

02:55:10.000 Or write to me, Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas 78704.

02:55:18.000 Now, Colonel Roberts' website is RifleWarrior.com.

02:55:22.000 And you can get to Jack McClam's amazing website as well by just typing into his search engine, Police and Military Against the New World Order.

02:55:31.000 Now, what was that, Mark?

02:55:33.000 Okay, thank you.

02:55:34.000 He was telling me about some callers hanging up.

02:55:37.000 Folks, it is so important to go to their websites to get their information.

02:55:40.000 It's amazing stuff.

02:55:41.000 I want to cram this last caller in, but Craig Roberts, Jack McClam, plug your contact info, your books, your videos.

02:55:50.000 We've got a new book coming out, by the way, this spring, Alex, to follow up One Shot, One Kill.

02:55:54.000 You'll like it.

02:55:55.000 It's called Crosshairs on the Kill Zone.

02:55:57.000 Got a new cover posted on the webpage.

02:55:59.000 You'll see it.

02:56:00.000 I'm not handling it, but you can get it at any bookstore.

02:56:03.000 Well, brother, it's the same old thing.

02:56:04.000 Twenty-three years now, our volunteer police and soldiers here have been trying to awaken our brothers and sisters in uniform.

02:56:09.000 and then you can see all the rest of them at riflewarrior.com.

02:56:12.000 Alright, riflewarrior.com and Jack McClam?

02:56:15.000 Well brother, it's the same old thing.

02:56:18.000 23 years now, our volunteer police and soldiers here have been trying to awaken our brothers and sisters in uniform.

02:56:25.000 So if you have family members or friends that wear a uniform today,

02:56:31.000 We want to talk to them.

02:56:32.000 We want to send them our publication on constitutional issues like we're talking about today.

02:56:37.000 It's amazing.

02:56:38.000 How do folks get it?

02:56:39.000 Get a hold of us at, you can call us at 208-935-7852.

02:56:42.000 That's 208-935-7852.

02:56:42.000 208-935-7852. That's 208-935-7852 or either go to our website, Police and Military Against

02:56:52.000 the New World Order. Just put it in the search engine and you'll find us there.

02:56:58.000 Alright, let's take a final call.

02:57:00.000 Tom in Iowa, thanks for holding your RTL gunner.

02:57:02.000 Go ahead.

02:57:03.000 Alex, how you doing?

02:57:04.000 Hello to your guests.

02:57:05.000 Good.

02:57:05.000 I just want to say I'm a devout Christian.

02:57:07.000 Our country is founded on Christianity, not on a Jewish person. 0.95

02:57:12.000 All that is an old law.

02:57:14.000 When Jesus came, everything changed.

02:57:15.000 Jesus told you to turn the other cheek, not to strike the man.

02:57:19.000 The country was founded under the Constitution, under the new law of Jesus Christ, not the Jew. 0.97

02:57:24.000 That's all my comment I have to say.

02:57:27.000 Well, thank you, but he also said he didn't come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

02:57:32.000 And you should defend yourself, you know, sell your cloak, buy a sword.

02:57:36.000 But yes, it takes discernment when to turn the cheek, when to not do that.

02:57:40.000 Gentlemen, final comments to what he just said.

02:57:44.000 Well, we do have a right to self-defense, but not to torture the person that's coming against us.

02:57:51.000 That's the way I believe, and I believe Craig put it right.

02:57:54.000 We're not talking about sleep deprivation and things like that.

02:57:58.000 We're talking about physical torture that America should not be a part of.

02:58:02.000 Craig, final comments?

02:58:04.000 I hoped we would get to Mad Cow, but evidently we're going to run out of time today, Alex, but yes to our deaths.

02:58:10.000 You know, this has been a great show.

02:58:11.000 How about I have you both up for an hour next week and we get into Mad Cow and the police state?

02:58:16.000 Give it to me.

02:58:16.000 We'll do it, Jack.

02:58:18.000 Let's come back and do it again.

02:58:19.000 Sounds good, brother.

02:58:20.000 All right, gentlemen, you know I love you both.

02:58:22.000 You're doing a great job.

02:58:23.000 Keep it up.

02:58:24.000 I'm out of time.

02:58:25.000 Back tonight, 9 to midnight.

02:58:26.000 Back tomorrow, 11 to 2.

02:58:28.000 Back on Friday, 11 to 2, 9 to midnight.

02:58:30.000 Have a wonderful holiday.

02:58:32.000 There, I'm not politically incorrect now.

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Alex Jones Show - December 24, 2003

20031224_Wed_Alex

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