Anarchonomicon - Ep28 Stone Choir, Christianity, Paganism w⧸ Woe to those who Dwell on the Earth

00:00:00.000 Hello, glorious listeners.

00:00:03.320 Before we get started, I just want to remind you that Anarchonomicon is a purely listener-supported podcast.

00:00:10.380 We have no advertising, no paymasters, no field bucks, no foreign intel services, no USAID grant money.

00:00:19.940 We are entirely supported by individual listeners and readers like yourself.

00:00:24.520 If you think we're glowies, it is entirely because we're radioactive all on our own.

00:00:30.000 Having ordinary listeners sign up with an email, subscribe, like, restack, share, or comment

00:00:37.340 does amazing things for this project, and I personally consider those of you who become

00:00:42.980 paid subscribers to be true saints, and I will personally stand beside you and sing your praises

00:00:48.640 at the final judgment of any gods or revolutions. A deep, deep thank you to all of you who make this

00:00:55.600 possible. This would not exist without you. Now on with the show.

00:01:10.180 They will chain you, like Prometheus, to a rock where the memory of your own greatness will gnaw you.

00:01:25.600 the battle for the mind of north america will be fought in the video arena the video drone

00:01:39.800 you look around what do you see businessmen teachers lawyers carpenters the very minds of

00:01:46.780 the people we are trying to save but until we do these people are still a part of that system

00:01:51.880 and that makes them our enemy no we're not doing that you're getting called a slur

00:01:57.400 after all there is nothing real outside our perception of reality is there you can see that

00:02:06.540 can't you tribal people uh one of the main uh kinds of sport is sort of butchering each other

00:02:13.540 So, you know, it's a full-time sport in Trump's societies.

00:02:16.920 You, my children, are the water.

00:02:20.280 They will wash away all that has gone before. 0.98

00:02:25.240 The gleam in the eye of sex.

00:02:27.940 It's very simple.

00:02:29.640 The message is force is more effective than vote.

00:02:33.380 Elections change nothing.

00:02:35.060 But I had some ideas.

00:02:36.000 We got global and tribal.

00:02:37.540 We, you know, we were going to come up.

00:02:38.780 The closer you get together, the more you like each other.

00:02:40.880 Yeah.

00:02:41.580 There's no evidence of that in any situation that we've ever heard of.

00:02:45.720 Major Lennox answered with his life, as you should have done if you had any sense of honor.

00:02:49.840 You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.

00:02:55.240 And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

00:03:02.160 He who saves a nation violates no law.

00:03:07.360 All forms of violence are a quest for identity.

00:03:13.360 When you live out on the frontier, you have no identity, you're a nobody, therefore you

00:03:18.460 get very tough.

00:03:20.460 You have to prove that you are somebody, and so you become very violent. 1.00

00:03:25.360 I'm coming to kill you! 1.00

00:03:27.360 For greater safety, please avoid the English language. 0.99

00:03:34.360 Please do not translate this message.

00:03:38.140 And so identity is always accompanied by violence.

00:03:42.060 This seems paradoxical to you?

00:03:44.600 It works.

00:03:45.780 Violence works.

00:03:47.540 Therefore, television is reality.

00:03:51.460 And reality is less than television.

00:03:54.500 Were you listening to me, Neo?

00:03:55.580 Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

00:03:58.720 It's just a grotesque postmodern psyop, 0.99

00:04:01.100 and anyone who's fallen for this is brain damaged. 0.89

00:04:03.740 Hello, hello, hello, glorious listeners.

00:04:06.240 Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Narconolicon podcast.

00:04:10.040 I am joined today by woe to those who dwell on the earth. 1.00

00:04:14.520 Say hello, woe. 0.55

00:04:16.680 Hello.

00:04:19.560 So I'm having woe on.

00:04:23.700 If you've seen the promo for the episode,

00:04:27.360 you know that we are going to be discussing and debating, quote, unquote,

00:04:32.880 uh paganism versus christianity but i i've trapped you dear listeners i've tricked you

00:04:40.300 because the real reason i want to have woe on is because uh his podcast stone choir that he does

00:04:49.520 with uh with his partner cory uh his podcasting partner he is very heterosexual as far as i'm

00:04:57.460 aware uh the yes uh part of the reason i want to have them on is because i i've become increasingly

00:05:08.320 like kind of disgusted at the content space in the online right um i feel this pressure personally

00:05:16.940 because um i when you're a content creator or when you're doing this like semi-professionally

00:05:24.140 or like fully professionally making as much as like a McDonald's employee.

00:05:33.180 When you're doing this, the pressure to just like churn out like slop content constantly

00:05:40.220 is very pressing.

00:05:43.180 Like I'm disgusted.

00:05:45.600 I go back through my charts and I see that when I was producing the worst content

00:05:49.320 was when my revenue was growing the fastest.

00:05:52.000 and you can see this throughout the online right now there's just all this real slop content all

00:05:59.040 these talk shows that talk about nothing or like regurgitate what what's talked about in legacy

00:06:04.680 media and then yap about how much they hate legacy media as they talk about and promote legacy media

00:06:10.660 but so i've been going through like um what i listen to what i've looked looked into uh

00:06:18.820 people I respect and listen to people I listen to and maybe don't respect as well like a crappy

00:06:26.560 content that has gotten into my feed and I never took out of it and one of the things that I've

00:06:32.580 been trying to do is I've been trying to isolate down who is actually effective like who's actually

00:06:38.900 producing substance not content you know who's actually doing things that meaningfully move the

00:06:48.660 needle needle they're doing producing intellectual works they're actually having a solid impact on

00:06:55.760 the world or are producing things that are evergreen and are going to be read like 10 years

00:07:04.600 from now as opposed to you know most stuff is not consumed three days after it's put put out

00:07:11.620 So I've been going through that, and one of the most dramatic examples of creators who are doing this is Stone Choir.

00:07:22.980 Quite extraordinarily for a podcast on theological issues or any really political issues, Stone Choir has, due the test of time, it's all incredibly substantive.

00:07:41.620 Uh, it, it has a vision. It's done really incredible stuff and it's had real impact. Like, um, I will leave it to you to go into detail on it. But like, even from outside the Christian framework is like a former Presbyterian.

00:07:59.420 And I've seen the dramas that have erupted within the Christian world around the impact of Stone Choir, which is not only impressive for being able to rock a 2,000-year-old boat, but also impressive because you guys are Lutherans,

00:08:21.460 which most people who think about their religious space usually think of that mainline American Lutheranism or breakaway Lutheranism as kind of, if not quite Anglicanism next to it in terms of like churches that have been like fully subsumed by the regime and like probably the spaces that we'd least expect some revolutionary ideological thing to happen.

00:08:49.240 So what led to Stone Choir?

00:08:54.760 What made you guys think this was possible?

00:08:57.620 What's your secret?

00:09:01.860 Corey and I first met each other online six, probably, well, seven years ago, seven to eight years ago.

00:09:09.940 um and i'm a lifelong lutheran and it's important to well it used to be important to clarify what

00:09:18.000 flavor of lutheran you were and when we started stone choir i was adamant about this now i'm not

00:09:25.340 so latin as i'm saying this now i'm kind of laughing as it's a joke but the way you frame

00:09:31.260 that of you know kind of lutheranism in the u.s and really worldwide being seen as a mainline

00:09:36.740 rainbow flag denomination has been historically because of the ELCA, the Evangelical Lutheran

00:09:44.620 Church in America, which has been around since 1987. They were formed from three other smaller

00:09:51.720 bodies that all merged at that point. And they immediately were just off the rails, far left,

00:10:00.860 like they pretty much went straight to universalism. In fact, I was baptized at about

00:10:05.820 age two and a half or three in one of the predecessor bodies of Elka. There's no Lutheranism

00:10:13.360 recently in my family. My mom was from the South, which like her neighbors were literally snake 1.00

00:10:19.440 handlers. I don't know how when she moved to Ohio and married my dad, she ended up wanting to go to 0.99

00:10:25.020 a Lutheran church, but it seemed like it was pretty much just happenstance. So my parents had

00:10:30.940 me. I'm almost 50. I'm an old dude. I'm way older than most people on the right now, at least the

00:10:37.200 ones who are not idiots. Sorry about that. Technically, I'm Gen X, but functionally, 0.99

00:10:41.840 I'm a millennial, an elder millennial, just like all my friends have always been the older

00:10:45.600 millennials. So I sometimes bring a different perspective just because I'm old. I could be a

00:10:51.940 grandfather at this point, although I don't have a family or kids. When my mom had me baptized

00:10:57.900 about the age in roughly 1980, my dad had been raised Baptist and left the church. And so he

00:11:04.400 kind of came back just because it was part of the baptismal, right? But he had to take an oath that

00:11:09.820 he would raise me in the church. And although he didn't care a lot about doctrine at that point,

00:11:15.280 he cared about making promises. And so he immediately became kind of devout in terms

00:11:22.100 of practice of just going to church, studying, okay, if I'm in this for my son, I'm going to

00:11:27.380 take it seriously. And over the next two years, he realized that this was LCA, one of the

00:11:34.520 predecessor bodies to ELCA, was actually very lib. Now, the pastor that we had initially was a good

00:11:42.620 guy. In fact, my parents are still friends with them to this day. But that man who baptized me

00:11:48.360 moved. He took another call somewhere else shortly thereafter. And the man who replaced him was

00:11:53.340 literally a universalist he didn't believe in jesus he didn't believe in christianity had

00:11:57.540 anything to do with like there's no salvation or like everybody goes to heaven just do whatever

00:12:01.840 he was very much like the rainbow flag mainline that you would think about when you're a lutheran

00:12:07.760 and my dad was promptly horrified because although he became our listeners quickly because um

00:12:14.820 because we do have quite a mixed audience could you just define universalism i know a lot of

00:12:21.800 People use universalism colloquially to just mean like in the political sense that, oh, your political loyalties or what you owe to someone in sub-Saharan Africa is the same as like your neighbor.

00:12:36.480 But within the theological tradition, there is something like very specifically called universalism that's like maybe different from what our listeners would be imagining.

00:12:48.480 it's basically the same in essence except directed to god it just means it doesn't matter what

00:12:56.180 religion you are or no religion at all yeah there's a god somewhere but everybody goes to

00:13:01.060 heaven god is love god loves everybody so it doesn't matter what you believe or what you do

00:13:05.280 you'll go to heaven because god's really nice which is bs but that is i mean that's universalism

00:13:12.400 in the religious sphere completely contrary to christianity like it's literally the exact opposite

00:13:17.800 it. Christianity makes exclusive truth claims. It makes exclusive claims about who and what God is

00:13:23.880 and what we are and what we must do to be saved. So my dad was glorified and started looking into

00:13:32.380 and realized that he had joined the bad ones and was looking around. It turned out that there was

00:13:37.500 an LCMS congregation not too far away from where we lived. And so pretty quickly, we started going

00:13:45.160 there and changed to what at the time was, at least on paper, a very conservative denomination.

00:13:52.100 So that's what I was raised in. That's all I remember. I don't remember any of the drama

00:13:55.360 from before that. I went to public schools up through fifth grade and then went to Lutheran

00:14:02.300 schools from sixth through twelfth grade. And the first ones were really good and the latter ones

00:14:07.140 in a different state were awful or in a different city were just, they were terrible. They were a

00:14:11.000 joke. Most people don't know that Lutherans actually have the second largest parochial

00:14:15.480 school system in the United States. It's not much smaller than the Catholic school system.

00:14:21.680 And that's one of the historical reasons actually why Lutheranism exploded in the 20th century in

00:14:28.700 the U.S. because there had been Lutherans. In fact, the Speaker of the House at the time of

00:14:35.820 the founding of the United States as a political entity, Muhlenberg, was a Lutheran. He was a

00:14:42.300 different group that sort of became the bad ones today, but that was due to drift. The Saxons who 0.98

00:14:49.240 moved to the Midwest in the 1830s, 40s, 50s, established a much more conservative form of

00:14:56.440 Lutheranism that my family then joined, despite not having any historical roots. So that's how I

00:15:02.440 grew up. And my, you know, dad listened to Rush Limbaugh, not the band. He was more of a Skynyrd

00:15:11.380 guy. So, you know, we were very conservative politically. You know, we would sit there and

00:15:16.600 boo at NBC because, you know, TV was still a thing. Like I said, I'm old. So like every night

00:15:21.260 when the six o'clock news came on, we hated NBC and we had to revile the libtard BS that they were 1.00

00:15:27.060 spewing. And my upbringing was conservative in that sense. I was, you know, kind of became 1.00

00:15:33.240 libertarian with my dad's blessing as I reached adulthood. I never really, like I was raised

00:15:40.800 Lutheran, I was catechized, I memorized Luther's small catechism. And I took that stuff seriously

00:15:46.420 doctrinally for what it was. But it was always to me something that was more or less sequestered

00:15:52.800 to Sunday morning. Like you show up Sunday morning, you do the church thing, and you basically behave

00:15:57.560 the rest of the time and you're good. And that was my entire life until probably about, you know,

00:16:03.880 2017, 2018. And so not long before I was introduced to Corey through some mutual friends,

00:16:12.400 I had created a Twitter account. It was becoming active politically as an anon. You're just kind

00:16:18.520 of wading into the post-Obama reactionary space, which at the time was very substantially

00:16:26.720 dissident.

00:16:27.880 Like, if you look at what Obama was saying to get elected in 2006 and 2008, you know,

00:16:33.360 there are clips floating around now where he would be shouted down as a Nazi today for

00:16:37.700 the things that he was saying to get arrested.

00:16:39.200 Now, he didn't believe them, but he had to, even as a radical leftist Democrat 15, 20 years

00:16:46.060 ago, he had to say things today that would get him kicked out of the Democrat party today.

00:16:51.580 So as that political trajectory was kind of shaping the U.S.

00:16:57.080 I just wanted to say this is like I've been starting and stopping pieces on this.

00:17:06.620 But one of the things that consistently blows my mind and one of the things that I the reasons 0.93

00:17:12.260 i go off on boomers particularly is because um you'll see figures that they're normally supposed 0.51

00:17:20.080 to be conservatives like rod treyer or uh bill crystal or any of these uh neocons boomer cons

00:17:30.240 are like uh old george shelley bush conservatives and 201 all of them will are consistently more

00:17:41.380 left wing on all matters, gay, trans, marriage, everything, than Barack Obama in 2008. And all

00:17:49.160 of them think that it's just improper that you lose your job if you merely are as conservative

00:17:56.920 as Barack Obama was in 2008. And they see nothing wrong with you being fired, driven out polite

00:18:03.500 society, etc., for expressing opinions that were the American mainstream as recently as the Bush

00:18:10.340 administration and they see nothing, nothing wrong with that. And they're, they get quite

00:18:17.060 pissy at you. If you like point this out or you insist on, on it, that no, uh, sodomy is a,

00:18:25.760 is a sin. Or if that's not part of your parlance, sodomy is a horribly diseased and destructive 0.97

00:18:33.180 behavior that will ruin your life. And you should not want your children, uh, normalizing in any

00:18:39.220 shape or form or thinking is an acceptable way to behave any more than you want them like huffing

00:18:44.420 glue yep and it's the the thing that i realized around that time so

00:18:53.940 before i became openly politically active as an anon i mean like you know political active it's a

00:19:00.760 joke but like i started talking about this stuff with some friends like i think battle beagle was

00:19:04.940 one of my first mutuals in 2017 and he was already a big account relatively I think Ann Coulter

00:19:11.500 followed him at a time at the time so he was one of the early guys to help boost me and I still

00:19:16.780 remember being shocked when I got past 300 followers I saw the screenshot because I'm like

00:19:20.620 wow I can't believe like 300 people care what I think because I never thought anyone would care

00:19:26.720 at all. I got there really via kind of poll on 4chan and then 8chan. I was never really a Chan

00:19:35.700 guy. I had known about it since its inception and I checked out poll and B and K a few times and

00:19:41.700 not really my scene, but I knew it existed. And again, a sort of the reactionary arc on the right

00:19:48.580 was expanding. Even before I got on Twitter, I started reading more of poll at the time when

00:19:55.980 it wasn't being completely slid and overrun. This was before ActBlue and the others were

00:20:01.960 expending hundreds of thousands of dollars deliberately to disrupt our ability to

00:20:07.060 communicate on those forums. So that's where I first started to get red-pilled on all the stuff

00:20:13.840 like, oh, it turns out we've been lied to about a lot of historical facts. I was never a devotee

00:20:19.760 of those things, but I just never questioned them. Even when I believe that certain 1939 to 1945

00:20:27.420 events had transpired, I was almost more offended that they were such wimps that they let it happen

00:20:35.580 than I was that it happened. So that was the degree of investment that I had in that narrative.

00:20:40.900 and when i started reading you know the revisionist version of that and many other things

00:20:50.180 again initially unfortunate i was like there's no way like these guys are like i already knew 0.95

00:20:55.940 they were assholes and maniacs and you know it's like the cesspool of the internet but they kept 0.84

00:21:00.900 you know linking to articles and videos and facts and you know the memes with quotes and sometimes 1.00

00:21:07.220 URLs. Like there's no way any of this stuff is real. And I started looking at it like, oh crap,

00:21:12.800 like one by one, it turned out they weren't maniacs and liars. They were telling the truth 0.99

00:21:17.460 about that stuff. And it was no surprise to me that we would be lied to about things. Like I've

00:21:23.740 never been naive politically, but again, it was just something I never questioned. I just like,

00:21:30.220 I didn't care. I went along with it because it's what I've been told. And like everything everyone

00:21:34.480 knows says this is true okay who cares not my people not my problem so by the time I was

00:21:41.180 introduced to Corey I had already shifted from 2017 to 2018 I think I was already fully I think

00:21:48.340 rebranded by the end of 2018 from explicitly talking about political stuff I had rebranded

00:21:55.140 from EST-1608 which was the first year that my ancestors got here in North America

00:22:00.460 i had rebranded to eschatologi if you find some old screenshots of me it's under that

00:22:08.340 that was my original handle which has long since banned by jack

00:22:11.500 and at the time you know s is in eschatology like an end time stuff so it was it was not

00:22:19.160 seriously thinking it was the end times but that's where the whoa whoa whoa to those who

00:22:23.720 dwell upon the earth that was the long form of my name which is from uh revelation i can't remember

00:22:29.700 which verse. It's either seven or nine, I think. Chapter seven or chapter nine. Actually, maybe

00:22:35.140 eight. Anyway, somewhere in Revelation. Even your listeners who don't know anything about the Bible

00:22:39.920 probably know Revelations at the end. It's the really weird one with the visions of the end of

00:22:44.660 the world. Eschatology is just about end times. So in 2018, when I rebranded to that, I didn't

00:22:51.320 actually think these were end times, but it seemed like a cool, a little bit edgy handle.

00:22:56.220 And it was more in the vein of, OK, I want to talk more about religion, because what I was realizing at that time, as I initially was talking about politics, I was seeing a ton of guys, even then, who had no religious background or they'd left the church because churches had already almost universally turned gay.

00:23:16.100 they had left them in disgust or would look at them and say this is just disgusting this is 0.91

00:23:22.260 revolting whatever this is i want no part of it because it's it's repugnant and they're absolutely

00:23:28.160 right what i realized at that time you know nearly a decade ago now was that the political problems

00:23:36.160 you know kind of post obama just the arc of the world it had nothing to do with him he was he was 0.99

00:23:40.880 just an avatar of this crap. I realized that there was a spiritual element to all this. 0.92

00:23:46.680 And I realized that I was taught that by a bunch of guys who were not Christians at all. They

00:23:50.560 weren't believers, but they were over and over just random guys were saying, I don't know anything

00:23:56.040 about God. I don't know anything about any of this religious or supernatural stuff. I've never

00:24:02.040 believed it. I've never taken it seriously. When I look at what's happening on the ground,

00:24:06.440 I believe in ontological spiritual evil. And if there is an ontological spiritual evil,

00:24:14.460 God help me, there must be a good, there must be a God. And so I was watching guys

00:24:19.580 who are purely political, discovering religion, not through the Bible or any normal path,

00:24:26.700 just out of desperation at the state of the evil in the world. And I remembered all the stuff I

00:24:31.480 was taught as a kid. And it kind of came pouring out of me. I was just engaging. I was quoting

00:24:39.060 stuff I'd memorized when I was in catechism, like age 13, 14. And it was applicable. It was right

00:24:47.320 on point. It was stuff that I had personally always seen as being sequestered as Sunday

00:24:54.220 school stuff, Sunday morning stuff. I suddenly realized that the God that I learned about in

00:25:00.060 church was, you know, I always believed he was like the God of everything, the creator of all

00:25:04.680 things. But I suddenly realized that that had political relevance, that there's not nearly

00:25:09.540 the division that we certainly post-enlightenment all pretend there are until recently, that there's

00:25:16.440 this strong separation between church and state. And the worst thing in the world would be for the

00:25:22.220 church and the state to commingle in any way, which is universal today. Atheists believe that, 0.98

00:25:27.520 the churches believe that everybody is in a hundred percent agreement from the UN to MSNBC

00:25:33.440 to your local church, that the worst thing that could happen would be for God to be involved in

00:25:37.820 politics. And I started looking at all these unbelievers that I usually say pagan. Unbeliever 1.00

00:25:44.200 begs the question. It's like, oh, you're, you're an unbeliever. So when I say pagan, I'm simply 0.95

00:25:48.680 talking about someone who is not a Christian, which is of course distinct. I, I, I would call

00:25:54.840 them uh uh secularists or um or or american agnostic like uh progressive agnostic would be

00:26:09.780 the term i'd link to because paganism is actually very different uh than well we'll talk about that

00:26:19.300 later but i mean the historical name for pagan like the the etymological root has nothing to do

00:26:23.740 with those practices it was literally just the other guys who don't believe in christianity

00:26:27.080 well um pagan actually the the etymology etymology of paganism uh in the tradition christian

00:26:35.100 tradition means uh like backwards rural people was uh i can't yeah was a meaning it actually

00:26:42.320 translates to rural or like in the sticks that uh that the pagans were viewed as like very

00:26:50.320 very tribal or very, like, regional and folkish and, like, set in their ways.

00:26:58.480 That's actually quite distinct from whereas the ideology of the regime is very leveling

00:27:09.840 and universal, as you said, but very much a kind of anti-belief.

00:27:17.160 doesn't believe in religion doesn't believe in tribe doesn't believe in culture uh like uh you'll

00:27:23.600 have these people saying white people don't have have culture and it's a projection but be like

00:27:29.940 it's this desire for white people to stop having having a culture to stop believing they're like

00:27:36.140 regional distinctions to stop being like you know southern sons and daughters of the confederacy or

00:27:43.020 stop being Upper Canada Loyalists, or stop being Orangemen in Belfast, or stop being

00:27:51.860 New York Yankee Sons of the Union stuff. This desire to not have these very particular regional 0.90

00:28:04.780 attachments and very particular ethnic attachments and that that is that it's like

00:28:12.960 kind of the opposite end of the spectrum from paganism and at the elite level you can see that

00:28:20.500 it's that they kind of loop back around to being uh ethnocentric again because of course the elites

00:28:27.020 all belong to one particular tribe and like are willing to worship particular ethnic gods again

00:28:33.000 because, but in secret, they have to pretend to be universalists on the outside and only

00:28:38.240 call you Goyim in their emails.

00:28:42.180 Yep. 1.00

00:28:43.060 Okay, well, I didn't want to be annoying, so I'll just, I'll keep saying underbeliever 1.00

00:28:46.680 because I agree with what you just said there about, you know, sort of the agnostic milieu 0.99

00:28:52.100 of secular religion, which it is.

00:28:55.380 It's not believing in God to still believe. 0.59

00:28:58.200 What I mean, anyone who isn't a Christian, I mean, literally Christian and not Christian. 0.98

00:29:03.000 So what I was seeing was I was learning from these not Christians that Christianity was applicable, like the doctrine was applicable, the rules, the order, all the things that I had grown up believing but didn't think were relevant turned out to be relevant. 0.95

00:29:21.720 And so I shifted more from talking about politics to mostly talking about religion 0.99

00:29:26.480 because there was no voice at all at the time of Christians who weren't just complete homos. 1.00

00:29:34.320 All the Christians you would see talking were part of the problem. 1.00

00:29:38.580 And I've made the post, I have one of my oldest posts on this account. 1.00

00:29:43.420 I described being kind of a Rip Van Winkle Lutheran because I went from being catechized

00:29:50.660 in the nineties. And I, I, I attended church. Like I was, I was a Christian. I was a practicing

00:29:56.300 Christian. I always believed. I just didn't care about the relevance. I was, I was 100% the

00:30:03.280 live and let live. Like I said, I was libertarian for 20 years. And so it was just perfectly fine

00:30:10.140 for me to all do what I do and you do what you do. And that's fine. And if you want to talk about

00:30:13.740 Jesus, that's cool, but I don't care because it doesn't have anything to do with what's right in

00:30:17.500 front of us. And so as I was seeing a bunch of guys on the right politically who don't believe

00:30:22.180 a God and they're like, holy crap, there has to be a God because there's clearly a Satan and he's 0.98

00:30:28.200 running the boards. I'm like, yeah, actually there is. And let me tell you about what's going on 0.98

00:30:32.340 because suddenly I could explain that stuff. So when I was introduced to Corey, we were both in

00:30:38.260 the same place and we'd both explicitly done work the entire time to try to do outreach to actual

00:30:46.700 specific pagans because that was something that was coming up again on the right mostly online

00:30:52.900 some of that came from the military when that was established as a as a permitted religion

00:30:57.620 in their list yeah the pentagon's list of permissible religions that you could practice

00:31:04.060 and have certain benefits conferred to you i realized that like i do believe in jesus and god

00:31:12.600 And like the whole nine yards of Christianity is that's defined, you know, the Nicene terms.

00:31:19.560 And therefore that has exclusive truth claims that's contrary to what these other guys are saying.

00:31:24.920 And I just, I wanted to be helpful and useful and say like, look, you can be Christian and not destroy your own country for the Jews.

00:31:34.160 It's actually possible to do that. 0.93

00:31:36.400 In fact, it's necessary for Christians to fight this evil. 0.99

00:31:41.260 And I think that in the intervening time, we've pretty much on the right, all congealed on a long line. 1.00

00:31:46.800 We got to fight this stuff.

00:31:48.300 Even the people who don't necessarily define the terms correctly in terms of identifying what the evil is,

00:31:54.300 they know that we are facing an actual evil that goes beyond just these are bad people.

00:32:00.640 Like these people are literally worshiping supernatural entities that are evil and they know they're evil and that's their team.

00:32:09.200 and the right my view needs to be aligned and fighting that and not fighting it in secular

00:32:18.580 terms because it is a spiritual as much as it is a political that is kinetic war and one doesn't

00:32:26.020 take precedence over the other with the exception that is something stone choirs talked about and

00:32:31.280 i've talked about before for years if whites are exterminated as is we're on the trajectory of the 0.99

00:32:38.420 next two generations for us to be wiped out, Christianity goes with us. And we made the case 1.00

00:32:44.040 in the Stone Choir IQ episode why that is, because while other races can be Christian,

00:32:50.640 we're not Christian identity who say that, like, I reject Christian identity out of hand. It's a 0.62

00:32:57.040 heresy. It's not Christian at all. They have certain beliefs to say that basically only whites 1.00

00:33:01.760 are human. No one else can possibly be saved because they're something else. It's really just 1.00

00:33:05.540 a variation of Judaism. It's just the Goyim are something else. The Goyim to them are non-whites. 1.00

00:33:14.000 Christianity is universalist in the sense you were originally talking about, 0.95

00:33:18.280 and as it's criticized, kind of the, I think the Nietzschean criticism, that Jesus died for

00:33:24.400 everyone because God created everyone. Jesus is God. This is his creation. Adam broke it by sinning.

00:33:31.520 Jesus was born into the world to fix that. And that resolution on the cross is for all men.

00:33:39.260 So it is universalist in that sense, but it doesn't mean that everyone is saved because

00:33:44.060 we are free to reject that gift. And the entire arc of human history, starting in the garden,

00:33:51.100 where God said, don't touch that fruit. I said, well, I want, like Satan tricked him and

00:33:55.500 we did an episode where we talk about the manner in which Satan lied by asking the question of Eve.

00:34:01.520 So did God really say? And then he tricked her into actually making a true confession,

00:34:06.520 which is an important part of this later. Say tricked Eve into spouting true doctrine,

00:34:12.540 and that's how he got her to be envious of the fruit and eat it, which God said not to do.

00:34:18.140 And it was the smallest sin ever committed. God said, don't do that. She did it. We all die

00:34:22.520 because of that. That's Christian doctrine. It sounds totally unfair. It sounds like just a 1.00

00:34:28.000 complete crock of crap. And it's entirely true. And Christianity explains how God fixes that. 1.00

00:34:41.380 And God fixes that through Christ's sacrifice on the cross and through our belief in that, 0.90

00:34:47.500 which preexisted Abraham. It began in the Garden of Eden. It was something that Adam understood. 0.55

00:34:53.720 he talked to God. Noah understood, he talked to God. Abraham understood. Abraham, as the song goes,

00:35:01.400 he had many sons, and only a few of them were what became known later as Jews. And whether or not the

00:35:08.440 people today are Jews in the same lineage or not is totally irrelevant for my purposes. But Abraham

00:35:15.420 had a lot of other sons who all lived in the Near East. There was a Shemitic tribe descended from

00:35:20.940 Shem was one of Noah's sons. 0.88

00:35:23.880 We are from another one of Noah's sons, Europe. 0.92

00:35:26.300 All of Europe is from Japheth, which was the firstborn son off the ark. 0.78

00:35:31.900 There were eight people who survived the flood.

00:35:34.420 And we'll probably talk more later about kind of flood myths and the emergent properties

00:35:39.700 of religion and other places, because it's an important part of the story when we get

00:35:43.180 into the paganism discussion towards the end.

00:35:45.360 yeah so so that is all excellent content and that is a very good representation of what's

00:35:56.680 in the stone choir podcast uh how many episodes you guys have like uh it was 107 107 episodes

00:36:07.060 just shy of the buddhist uh magic number of 108 that you see in the all the animes and stuff so

00:36:14.820 they aren't crypto buddhists but uh actually we did have 108 so there was basically just the

00:36:21.800 goodbye ah ah so so this is exactly like evangelium the anime there is a a secret

00:36:32.420 numeric code behind it but uh yeah this is the big reveal but yeah so that is

00:36:39.260 like a good vertical slice of uh the stone stone choir podcast right there but uh part

00:36:48.040 part of this is me phrasing the question wrong

00:36:52.220 why was stone choir so so successful like uh most most uh talk podcasts just guys going back

00:37:03.400 back and forth uh do not have much impact at all like uh i can name many many podcasts that have

00:37:14.160 thousands of episodes that really haven't had any cultural purchase or impact whatsoever and like

00:37:21.800 really aren't systemic in any manner manner and don't have like a a coherent ideological trust

00:37:30.500 that they're pushing. Whereas Stone Choir, the NarconomCon podcast, this will be the 25th

00:37:38.780 episode, I think, maybe 26, depending on release order. But most podcasts do not have this cultural

00:37:47.140 purchase. Most podcasts do not wind up with priests across multiple denominations of Christianity and

00:37:56.040 various uh bishoprics uh sending emails scandalized and like trying to hunt down which of their their

00:38:04.900 male uh uh which of their male um what's the word uh uh congregation members i had them yeah

00:38:16.640 parishioners had been listening to the the podcast yeah you your podcast was like cultural fire it uh

00:38:25.020 it it started a mild civil war within an american wire christianity christianity and

00:38:33.720 you know as someone who's something of like uh someone who tries to be very controversial and

00:38:40.540 radicalizing uh how do you do that like that that's not an easy thing to do it's not easy to

00:38:47.520 to go up to a microwave microphone that just going out to the internet speak into it and then

00:38:53.780 have things happen because you spoke into the microphone uh like what was stone choir secret

00:38:59.660 what we set out to do like i said was to make sure that at least there was a voice on the table that 0.99

00:39:08.720 said you can be christian and not be gay and not burn down your country so your children die

00:39:13.560 and it turned out that was pretty controversial and it really goes back to what you said earlier 0.91

00:39:19.360 about and we were talking about obama and his beliefs and how the bill crystal set wants to

00:39:24.140 pretend that rod dreher i don't know if he's come after us by name but he was one of the first people

00:39:29.080 who was involved in coming after us like even before anybody had heard of us there there was

00:39:34.380 a hit piece against cory and rolling stone within like two months of us starting so somebody knew

00:39:42.060 we were a threat even before anybody had really listened to us and i think there's i don't think

00:39:46.580 there's a materialist explanation for that. What we set out to do was basically to demonstrate that

00:39:53.800 the Christianity of our forefathers is still true. I think one of the most compelling arguments

00:40:00.780 that we've ever made is very simple. If your Christian forebears 200 years ago believed 0.94

00:40:07.140 something and they went to heaven, you can go to heaven believing the same thing as then,

00:40:12.120 even if they were racist even if they were misogynist even if they were nationalists

00:40:17.240 even if they thought slavery was just hunky-dory they were in heaven you can go to heaven and it

00:40:24.560 turns out that that blows up every single church denomination because they've all changed their

00:40:30.540 doctrine while pretending that the religion hasn't changed and one of the fundamental

00:40:36.380 precepts of christianity is that god is unchanging like for a christian that is that's a definitional

00:40:42.100 property of God. If God is changing, and, you know, the Bible says this, but, like,

00:40:48.000 if God is perfect, then he's going to be the same all the time, and he says as much in the Bible.

00:40:52.800 So, when we pointed out that, you know, post-1945 doctrine, when you have Bonhoeffer,

00:40:59.360 and then in the 60s, you have Martin Luther King Jr., who's, you know, really Michael King,

00:41:03.720 never even changed his name. These guys are held up as the new martyrs in the faith,

00:41:09.400 and every church regardless of their historical beliefs is pointed at the same guy saying these

00:41:16.160 are our guys roman catholics the pope the lutherans baptists they all love mlk they all

00:41:23.160 love bonhoeffer that can't be organic because they they disagree about almost everything else

00:41:30.820 they agree there's a jesus and you know a few basics but it falls apart really quickly when

00:41:36.640 you're looking at doctrinal quibbles. And yet, to a fault, these churches are in accord. They're

00:41:44.180 in one voice and saying, what I've called the new global religion, for lack of a catchier term,

00:41:51.720 the new global religion has martyrs, it has beliefs, and it's exactly the same as the beliefs

00:41:57.080 of your local PTA and your HR department and your big company. And, you know, the guys on TV

00:42:08.300 that are saying the worst, most heinous stuff in the world, they all agree with the church about

00:42:13.060 all of this stuff. And as a Christian, those are matters of doctrine. Like they're saying,

00:42:18.760 you'll go to hell if you say this, or if you believe this, and you have to believe this to

00:42:22.740 go to heaven. Those are truth claims. Those are claims of sin, of what God says. And as I said,

00:42:30.540 I kind of, because I didn't pay attention to Lutheranism, like keeping up with the politics

00:42:35.860 and the drama for a couple of decades, I was a Rip Van Winkle Lutheran in terms of, I just believed

00:42:41.920 what I had been taught in the nineties. And it turned out when I started paying attention to

00:42:46.020 the church again, the church had changed. My super conservative, like they think they're the

00:42:51.180 most conservative thing in the world. They think they are the stalwarts of all Christianity and

00:42:57.180 they are unchanging and they believe things that nobody believed 50 years ago. And they're going

00:43:03.540 after guys for saying, hey, this doesn't add up. So that was the reason that we were a neutron

00:43:10.100 bomb detonated in the center of the political, of the Christian sphere. But I didn't think that,

00:43:16.280 you know, any of those neutron emissions would actually touch anybody. I still like, you know,

00:43:21.920 we had a DM group on Telegram of, you know, 50 or 60 friends. I honestly didn't think that more

00:43:28.560 than, you know, some subset of those guys would ever listen to what we had to say. If you look

00:43:33.860 at, listen to the very earliest episodes, the first one was I think 75 minutes. And within like

00:43:40.280 two episodes, we did one that was two hours and we called it a double episode because we were super

00:43:45.280 shy about going longer than an hour we didn't we didn't think anybody would ever listen to us in

00:43:49.220 the first place and we didn't think that they would listen for a long time even though like

00:43:53.460 rogan exists and stuff like why would anybody listen to us yeah i was a non at the time we had

00:43:57.720 no no huge following no reason for anybody to listen to us at all and it pretty quickly spread

00:44:04.280 you know we had a couple thousand listeners you know within the first six months or so and that

00:44:10.240 i think by the end we probably had in the neighborhood of if you look at total reach

00:44:16.120 it was probably 30 to 50 000 people were hearing most episodes or talking to people who are

00:44:22.700 listening to him it's like direct immediate consequences of the things we're saying which

00:44:28.020 is still small you know like that's that's a fraction of even the abysmal ratings that you

00:44:33.420 get from like cnn shows tonight so it's that's not real reach but for whatever reason we're

00:44:39.080 reaching the right people. And I think that that is what had the effects that you observed from

00:44:45.220 the outside as someone who doesn't particularly care about church politics. To see, you know,

00:44:51.940 Doug Wilson was just on stage yesterday with Pete Hegseth. Pete Hegseth's pastor is one of

00:44:59.780 Doug Wilson's guys. Both Pete Hegseth's pastor and Doug Wilson came after Stone Choir by name

00:45:06.080 towards the end of 2024, because they were terrified that Stone Choir's application of

00:45:14.260 Christian theology to politics was going to taint Pete Hegseth's nomination. And they said so in

00:45:22.680 public. So I'm not sure how to answer your question. How did we do that? Apart from like,

00:45:30.280 God had to be with us because it wasn't just like a zero bargaining budget, you know,

00:45:36.080 no real charisma or appeal. Like there's no reason for anybody to listen, except that

00:45:39.800 something resonates with people. And I think that that was because we were making clear,

00:45:46.120 readily accessible arguments that explain things that people weren't getting explanations for

00:45:51.400 anywhere else. And it was crucial because again, we're looking at the intersection of politics and

00:45:56.000 religion where you have the UN and MSNBC and your HR department saying, this is the moral law.

00:46:06.700 Thou shalt not be racist. And 100% of churches are saying the exact same thing. The only difference

00:46:13.040 is that the church says it in the name of Jesus Christ. In the name of Jesus, don't be racist.

00:46:18.460 And our response was, that's complete horseshit. That's got nothing to do with anything in the 0.98

00:46:23.420 Bible. If you want to talk about what the Bible says about race and about slavery, let's go,

00:46:28.760 because it's not what anyone has believed for hundreds of years. But crucially, it's what

00:46:34.200 Christians believe for thousands of years. So you have the dichotomy of, on one hand,

00:46:39.780 ancient Christian beliefs. And again, if God is unchanging and Christian doctrine is unchanging,

00:46:46.140 then anything new that claims to be Christianity that isn't in accord with what people believed

00:46:50.940 200, 300, 500, a thousand years ago, it's not the same religion. Don't care what they call

00:46:56.140 themselves. It can't be the same religion. If, if sins have changed, if new sins have emerged, 1.00

00:47:02.080 there's no progressive revelation of things were wrong now, but they were right before. 0.79

00:47:08.520 That's not how anything works in the Christian milieu. Like it's the rules for Christians are 1.00

00:47:14.460 such that what is bad is always bad. What is good is always good. And therefore those things 0.99

00:47:19.640 or moral obligations to every man, whether he knows it or not. And the harm that we did to

00:47:25.420 these churches and everyone else was illustrating their hypocrisy and the fact that they were 0.95

00:47:30.620 wearing Christianity as a skin suit. And so, as I said, like a lot of the battle that Corey and I 0.97

00:47:37.320 saw from the beginning was demonstrating to men what you see as Christianity when you're outside 0.75

00:47:44.240 the church and you're looking at these guys claiming to be Christian, the stuff that they're

00:47:48.200 saying, it's all flavors of heinous lies and BS. And like, well, that's just not true. And here's 0.90

00:47:55.020 the long form argument that lays out from scripture and from reason why they're lying and they're

00:48:00.600 lying in the name of God and why that's really bad. And I think that was the single most harmful

00:48:05.400 thing that we did is we proved the emperor has no clothes. And their entire gimmick relies on

00:48:12.300 people just saying, oh, this guy says he's a Christian and he's got the title or whatever.

00:48:17.620 And so I'm going to listen to what he says, and that must be what's in the Bible.

00:48:20.420 Nobody cares about what our ancestors believed.

00:48:23.080 I care.

00:48:24.240 Like, you know, that's one of the things we'll talk about towards the end.

00:48:26.800 But I absolutely care what our ancestors believe.

00:48:29.760 And I hold the beliefs of my ancestors, which were ancient Christianity.

00:48:35.440 And ancient Christianity put these people to the sword. 0.82

00:48:38.300 That's what scares them. 0.92

00:48:39.720 They don't want that.

00:48:40.640 They want anything but that. 0.97

00:48:43.040 And Stone Choir exists to illustrate that these guys are liars, 0.89

00:48:45.880 and they're after your souls, and they're destroying our country while they do it. 0.97

00:48:50.760 Yes.

00:48:52.140 So I have a theory of why you guys got basically so much free viral marketing

00:49:01.860 from Rod Dreher, Andrew Wilson, Geet Hegsa, the defense, the current, well, war secretary.

00:49:14.140 He's no longer the defense secretary.

00:49:15.880 uh uh in my my theory i wrote this in a very belligerent belligerent piece of mine

00:49:25.860 it's buried halfway down uh the piece is called christ was next epstein client client christ was

00:49:33.820 an epstein client and goes through um basically the complicity of um a lot of modern christian

00:49:41.360 doctrines and institutions in the persistence of both the grooming gangs in the UK and the

00:49:50.640 Epstein network in the US. When, of course, almost any other point in history, if something

00:49:56.240 like this was uncovered, there'd be immediate violent purges, riots in the streets, pogroms,

00:50:02.920 ethnic conflicts. The fact that there are not ethnic conflicts raging across the streets of

00:50:10.360 the UK is an eternal horror of mine. Like I'm terrified that the revolution, revelations in

00:50:20.060 the UK could come out and like nail bombs aren't going off over there. But buried down, I taught

00:50:27.720 in this piece that some people liked and some people took grave offense to. I go into just how

00:50:36.240 much of modern Christianity is funded by Western governments. The separation of church and state

00:50:44.020 is actually basically a myth throughout the West. They insist that you can't regulate the state

00:50:52.140 with your Christian beliefs, but the state does regulate your church with money. So just in the

00:50:59.720 Canadian province of Ontario alone, the Catholic school system receives somewhere between

00:51:06.240 $8 and $10 billion annually, and runs 36 Catholic districts out of Canadian tax dollars.

00:51:14.960 Like, if you're in Ontario, you're paying for all those Catholic churches, and the same

00:51:18.720 is true of Catholic hospitals, same is true of all these different Catholic institutions.

00:51:23.920 And basically, with the exception of, like, a few churches, such as the Amish, Amish

00:51:30.000 like very small independent parishes, like base living room churches, very small ones that are

00:51:40.420 seven strip malls, the vast majority of funding for Christian churches and Christian institutions

00:51:46.420 do not come from the donations of their parishioners. Like put her out, like the collection

00:51:51.840 plate is a vestigial organ for the vast majority of Christian churches. Most of their funding 0.83

00:51:59.280 comes from from state grants uh specifically grants to stuff like their refugee outreach

00:52:06.540 uh their home homeless outreach why does every single christian church uh basically every major

00:52:14.000 denomination have a program to sponsor refugees you know this is a very politically contentious

00:52:20.520 thing uh the vast majority of people in most western countries do not want to

00:52:28.080 refugees sponsored, and yet some obscene majority of all Christian churches will help sponsor

00:52:35.380 refugees. Why do they do that? Well, because the government gives them tons of money, grant money, 0.90

00:52:40.060 to provide these services. All these NGOs that are attached to churches receive tons of money

00:52:46.040 from the government that the vast majority of churches in the Western world are functionally

00:52:53.980 not organizations of their parishioners they're they're extensions of the government uh their

00:53:01.940 government-run NGOs that have legacy parishioners captured captured that in effect they're paid

00:53:10.880 to push the modern gay race communist agenda and if they stop pushing it uh if if say the

00:53:20.620 catholic church all suddenly went really hardcore against uh homosexuality or abortion while the 0.82

00:53:27.480 government has an immediate lever that they can just like slash the funding and make all these

00:53:32.220 institutions collapse uh you can make six figures six seven figures even being a high-ranking

00:53:41.160 catholic or or protestant almost entirely out of government funds like there are seven figure

00:53:48.180 salaried people within the Catholic church or within various Protestant churches that the

00:53:56.260 majority of their money comes from tax dollars. They're net tax consumers making six, seven

00:54:02.980 figures. But because this is all obscured through so many NGOs, grants, applications, etc.,

00:54:11.700 Uh, that gets, gets hidden. And one of the big things with conservative churches, um,

00:54:17.540 churches that you would think, well, they'd be the exception. Uh, not really because most U.S.

00:54:24.040 evangelical churches are in some ways attached to Israel and the Israel lobby. Uh, if you look at,

00:54:32.280 um, you brought up Doug, Doug Wilson. He's a prime example. On paper, uh, I remember when

00:54:40.000 people thought he was the most based protestant in america who thought that he was the real

00:54:45.520 conservative one he was the one that was willing to to go up against everything so why why is pete

00:54:52.600 hagseth and all these and why are pete hagseth and all these figures hey hanging around him well

00:54:58.440 because he's funded in large part by zionism he gets tons of his influence through various zionist

00:55:06.180 influence networks. And if you read Pete Hegg's book, The War on Warriors, which I recommend 0.91

00:55:11.700 everyone like find a digital copy and read it, the first two chapters are like, read like crappy

00:55:18.040 Fox News boilerplate. But as you get to the back of the book, there are a lot of interesting

00:55:23.240 chapters that go into his policy. But the last two chapters are basically him auditioning that,

00:55:30.700 no, I will be the goodest boy. This Jerusalem cross tattoo that I have, you might think that's

00:55:39.140 Christian Zionism, but really what it is, is I'm willing to die to defend Israel and Jerusalem. And

00:55:46.660 I will do infinite things to make sure that the Israeli state doesn't fall. And here's all my

00:55:52.200 my like torturous biblical interpretations, like passages of the Bible no one has referenced in

00:55:58.120 in 80 years probably like very obscure passages with very unique interpretation

00:56:06.340 he has this entire school thought he's developed of why his christian faith compels him

00:56:12.780 to extend infinite effort to defend the state of israel and is when you follow this money when you

00:56:20.820 follow this influence when you follow how many of these of these like mega pastures have like

00:56:29.740 like go to israel regularly and do things with uh israeli idf girls who for some reason never have

00:56:39.840 a actual military assignment they're always just hanging out with these tour groups

00:56:43.780 or all these figures in the Catholic Church

00:56:49.320 who somehow have spent their entire life in and around government

00:56:52.720 as a professional member of the Catholic Church.

00:56:55.580 Once you add it all up, you realize very quickly that the majority, probably,

00:57:00.980 of mainline churches, of even most distant churches,

00:57:05.400 are in some way, shape, or form effectively government institutions in the West.

00:57:13.780 Yeah, I don't know about the financing in my little corner of things, although you're absolutely right about the scope of the NGO activities, like things that we all think of as explicitly NGO activities, like the refugee BS.

00:57:32.340 But I've taken to straight up calling these churches, including the most so-called conservative ones, NGOs, because that is what they are.

00:57:39.460 they exist as a tentacle of the global machine i guarantee you that hegseth didn't write those

00:57:47.020 chapters himself that stuff was handed to him by one of wilson's guys and wilson's handler

00:57:53.740 is yoram hazoni so like we're dealing with stuff that's way beyond some niche little podcast i

00:58:03.360 never thought anybody would care because i didn't think we'd be a threat i intended to be i wanted

00:58:08.100 us to go right for the heart of the things that are threatening everything. Like my concern,

00:58:15.160 you know, if you listen to our approach over the three years that we recorded,

00:58:21.460 in the first year, I more often addressed pastors because initially I was still kind of delusional

00:58:27.660 and thinking, well, these are the Jesus guys. These are the experts. Surely they will step up

00:58:32.600 as soon as someone hands them the better argument and it took me a little while particularly after

00:58:38.560 they tried to have me murdered to realize that actually the pastor's job depends on them not

00:58:44.480 understanding unpack the murder story this is one i have not heard

00:58:48.180 so the reason that cory had a hit piece published in rolling stone within it was within three months

00:58:59.700 of Stone Choir beginning was because the LCMS had connections with the sodomite who published that.

00:59:07.300 And so they saw that we were going to start causing trouble for them. We probably had less

00:59:12.900 than a thousand listeners at that point. It was already important enough to SEO away Corey's name

00:59:20.040 so that the only thing you would ever see about him was, I think he called him like the Hitler

00:59:24.380 loving guy who wants to take over lutheranism the lutheran church the headline something like that 0.82

00:59:30.040 written by a literal homo and cory cooperated with it even though you shouldn't talk to reporters he 0.88

00:59:37.180 knew what he was doing he knew what the result was going to be and he intended for the result to to 0.85

00:59:42.220 occur so it didn't hurt us any like you said like all the press we had just made people more curious 0.98

00:59:47.000 and frankly if if the rolling stone bastards aren't coming after you what good are you

00:59:54.340 so to me that's a ringing endorsement uh i also want to emphasize to listeners out there who 0.97

01:00:02.180 might be looking for lessons uh basically all these media affairs these regime media affairs

01:00:08.040 are not playing to win like they're playing to actually maximize their impact or to be 0.68

01:00:13.520 strategic what they're playing for is to appear to be the goodest goy or like the best gay race 0.60

01:00:21.660 communist or like the defender of like Reaganist compromise to like donors who aren't actually 0.54

01:00:31.920 paying attention because they they're billionaires and have better things to do uh so like most of

01:00:40.060 the regime like apparatchiks like uh if you hold up a red a red like piece of cloth they will go

01:00:48.340 at exactly like a bull because they're being paid to be a bull like they're being paid to like 0.63

01:00:54.300 like out think you and outmaneuver you and win or like deprive you of oxygen or or you know

01:01:02.160 behave strategically they're being paid to be the person who looks like they're fighting the

01:01:07.540 hardest and so if you like uh you can very effectively market your yourself and have an

01:01:15.400 impact by just uh setting them off in the right way and giving them like an avenue to like do

01:01:22.220 their play fighting attack on you and none of these people are actually like serious persons

01:01:29.900 who are like trying like they are pericles of athens trying to guarantee that uh that at the

01:01:38.140 end of it all they're victorious and that they don't fall into blunders or not they aren't they're

01:01:44.080 they're worried that they'll streisand affect you they're they're worried that they'll appear to not

01:01:49.560 be in the fight and lose funding uh so i can guarantee you that rolling stone writer who

01:01:56.540 like made you famous uh from his perspective he succeeded because he got another contract 0.99

01:02:02.080 at rolling stone probably despite helping you immensely yeah no they're all whores but they're 0.94

01:02:11.420 whores as part of the machine and in january of 2023 shortly after stone choir began the lcms the 0.98

01:02:22.980 lutheran church missouri synod to which cory and i both belonged at the time released a brand new

01:02:28.880 copy of luther's large catechism which is an important work for lutherans it's uh basically

01:02:36.140 the small catechism Luther wrote to teach, to give to heads of households to teach their children,

01:02:42.120 particularly the basics of the Christian faith. And then the large catechism Luther wrote to

01:02:47.680 teach pastors and to help teach fathers, you know, the intelligent ones, how to do that effectively.

01:02:53.560 So it's way, way longer. And it's part of the Lutheran confessions. It's something that every

01:02:59.520 Lutheran says that they subscribe to unconditionally, because they say that this is,

01:03:04.960 every word of this is in accord with scripture. So it's not that it is scripture, but it doesn't

01:03:09.840 disagree with scripture. So we believe it. And there's no questions asked. What happened in

01:03:15.820 January, 2023 was that the Missouri Synod's president, Matt Harrison, one of his long-term

01:03:21.460 projects going back, I think to 2017 was to release a brand new copy of the large catechism

01:03:26.780 where he didn't alter any of the texts. He didn't alter what Luther wrote,

01:03:30.580 but it also got much longer. It's been getting longer for decades and probably centuries at

01:03:37.200 this point. Where in addition to what Luther wrote, you also have what the churches today

01:03:42.240 are adding on to it to explain Luther's explanation, to give it context, just make

01:03:48.280 sure that nobody misunderstands anything. And while there's some use to that, I mean that's

01:03:53.240 kind of what Stone Choir existed to do as well, what they were doing in practice was reframing

01:03:59.200 and in fact inverting some of the key teachings in the large catechism including there was a

01:04:05.300 section where they what they did the they released a copy they called the large catechism with

01:04:12.720 annotations and contemporary applications the lcaca we called it the patechism because one of

01:04:21.700 the things that is said in one of the essays it was written by a woman was in effect pedophilia

01:04:27.560 is a sexual orientation, and transgenderism is a sexual orientation, and polyamory is a sexual

01:04:34.440 orientation. And sure, there may be other people who are oriented in this way to have these desires

01:04:42.840 sexually, but you also sin. You're a Christian, you're a human, you sin too. And so the log in

01:04:50.960 your eye, you need to take it out of it before you can go say that someone who wants to molest

01:04:56.080 children is committing any sin. That's what they published. And so we call it the pedochism and

01:05:03.080 a number of other names because it was flat out condoning child rape, not by saying it was okay, 0.94

01:05:10.500 but by saying it's a sexual orientation, which is, you know, the LGBTQIA+++.

01:05:18.340 When that acronym gets long enough, being attracted to children, minor attracted persons, is one of those things.

01:05:28.760 And I learned after we went after this that minor attracted persons is a phrase that was invented by an LCMS pastor in Minnesota in the 90s.

01:05:38.620 It turns out Minnesota and Lutherans has a very specific connection to sexual crimes and hurting people.

01:05:48.340 And so as soon as this was published, Corey and I and two other guys got on Ryan Turnipseed's, Ryan was one of them, got on his YouTube channel and basically just did a takedown.

01:06:02.720 We went through and took turns on some of the essays illustrating with a bunch of slides like this is not Christian at all.

01:06:09.900 There was a chapter that was against self-defense, said that you're not, it's murder if you defend yourself when someone's trying to murder you.

01:06:18.340 there's a chapter that explicitly by name condemned gentrification. I mean, it's literally

01:06:24.820 the globalist script. It was satanic. It was absolutely evil stuff. And so we went after it

01:06:32.400 immediately. And I believe this occurred, I think this was right before the Rolling Stone piece

01:06:36.620 dropped. I think it was within about two weeks of the Rolling Stone piece.

01:06:42.560 This set off a huge firestorm throughout the Missouri Synod, which is kind of a backwater,

01:06:47.040 but it's still million and a half souls. There were enough people that were upset by the things

01:06:53.840 that we exposed as having been printed that for the span of about a week, they actually pulled

01:06:58.680 it from publication because there was so much outcry from Christians, like actual Christians, 0.99

01:07:05.140 both pastors and the Christian men in the pews saying, what is this crap? This is not Christian. 0.99

01:07:11.280 This is evil. They actually pulled it from sale for about 10 days because in the LCMS, 0.99

01:07:16.180 they have a captive publishing arm.

01:07:18.240 So basically everything that's official doctrine

01:07:20.820 is also a money-making scheme.

01:07:23.120 So I think they charge like 60 bucks for this hardcover.

01:07:26.220 We got a PDF and we exposed how wicked it was.

01:07:30.580 At the end of the so-called review period,

01:07:33.560 Matt Harrison, who was responsible for it,

01:07:36.200 came back and said he published a letter

01:07:38.700 that was a hit piece against Stone Choir

01:07:41.240 that basically said,

01:07:44.460 the pedochism doesn't have any doctrinal errors. I stand by it. It is a valuable resource for all

01:07:54.820 Christians in the future. Sales are resumed. And oh, by the way, we're going to go after everybody

01:08:00.580 who rebuked it because they didn't follow the rules. The Missouri Synod is an NGO. It's a

01:08:09.480 corporation. It's literally a Missouri corporation. And one of the ways that they control everything

01:08:15.660 that goes on is by what's called membership on the synodical roster. This is inside baseball, 0.67

01:08:22.840 but this is the sort of legalistic mechanisms. They're used in various places by everybody

01:08:28.480 to control guys who speak out. So I was a member of a Missouri Synod congregation,

01:08:35.460 but legally i was not a member of the missouri senate my congregation was a member of the

01:08:41.680 missouri senate and my pastor although at the time we were vacant so i didn't have a pastor

01:08:46.280 if i had i would have talked to him and said look at this stuff you need to fight it too

01:08:49.500 i would i never hid what we were what i did online for my pastor even though people claim that

01:08:55.100 the missouri senate has a roster of every pastor in every congregation in the senate

01:09:03.380 in order to participate in all the benefits like receiving that NGO money that they disbursed

01:09:10.600 through their RSO system, registered service organization system, or to participate in the

01:09:17.520 medical plan or insurance, or to just be able to receive a call from one church to another,

01:09:25.740 you have to be on the roster as a pastor. So that's really the only gatekeeping technically

01:09:31.180 that the corporation can do.

01:09:33.440 But what that means is that any pastor

01:09:35.280 who spoke out against the pedochism,

01:09:37.480 they went after him.

01:09:38.680 They rebuked him in public and in private

01:09:40.860 and said, you came after the corporation

01:09:43.600 when you said this was evil.

01:09:45.120 You have to repent.

01:09:46.900 And for a little while, there was a blowup

01:09:49.020 where like 70 odd pastors,

01:09:50.980 I think it got up to over 100,

01:09:53.800 they actually went after this and said it was bad.

01:09:55.700 And one by one, they all capitulated.

01:09:57.680 But you know who's not on the roster?

01:10:00.300 Podcasters.

01:10:01.180 there was nothing they could do to shut us down so when matt harrison put out that screed saying

01:10:07.500 that we were they were going to come after us he specifically said we're going to find out who they

01:10:14.320 are and they're going to be punished and even though i'm not a member of the zuri senate as a

01:10:18.060 as a member of a church he said even though we're not a top-down organization we're going to make

01:10:23.240 sure we excommunicate these guys because this is just so serious and so this was this is january

01:10:28.700 2023, I knew that they were going to try to, I knew before we began, they were going to try to

01:10:33.460 dox me. One of the earliest episodes we did was called A Name No Man Knows, where we talked about

01:10:39.380 the difference between anonymity and pseudonymity, and what it means not to show your name and face

01:10:45.320 online or in any context, and speak about serious matters. In that early episode, before I was doxed,

01:10:53.400 I basically gave my response to being doxed. I said, when I'm doxed, like, I've never been

01:10:57.420 anonymous i've always been pseudonymous so i used eschatology and then a couple other handles

01:11:02.300 because i was getting banned but i wasn't trying to cover my tracks i always came back and got

01:11:06.380 boosted by friends so and antifa was coming after me from day one because one of the things i was

01:11:12.700 doing from the very earliest days in 2017 even when nobody knew me or followed me i saw that

01:11:18.300 there were the mass reporting rings there were the the systematic mass reporting of guys on our side

01:11:22.800 and so I started building a block list because the block list still existed at the time on Twitter

01:11:28.060 where you could subscribe to a list and anyone who subscribed to your list

01:11:32.640 would automatically block anyone that you blocked if you shared those those lists

01:11:37.140 and so there were a couple floating around but they weren't being maintained actively enough

01:11:41.680 to go after all the guys who are coming after our guys so I picked up the mantle and I ended up

01:11:46.580 maintaining the largest, most popular, and most effective anti-Antifa block list on Twitter.

01:11:54.480 Which meant that even though I only had, you know, 500, 800 followers at the time,

01:11:58.780 Antifa was already coming after me, trying to get me banned. And they began in 2017

01:12:02.680 building their dossier so that they could try to dox me through, you know, idiots who leak 1.00

01:12:08.860 personal information. Over the course of years, you may potentially say enough that 1.00

01:12:13.400 piecing it all together, they could dox you. So they have databases that were stood up in the

01:12:18.500 late 90s at the time of the battle in Seattle. The rise-up infrastructure that they built with

01:12:26.160 Soros funding at that time still exists and operate to this day for the explicit purpose

01:12:31.180 of targeting certain dissidents, collecting any dox information about them so that later on it

01:12:39.020 to be pieced together. When Matt Harrison said, we're going to dox these guys, he didn't use those

01:12:44.080 words, but I was a pseudonymous, so the only way for them to find me was to dox me. It was a

01:12:50.240 literal thread, even though it wasn't in those words. I knew that it was probably just a matter

01:12:55.580 of time, as I'd known before we began the podcast. I knew that by using my voice and saying the same

01:13:00.880 stuff that I always said to other pastors in church, this is what I've always believed since

01:13:06.220 I've been active about this stuff. I never hid my beliefs, even though I hid my name,

01:13:10.720 because it wasn't relevant. And there's only downside to using your name in this space,

01:13:15.540 even today. I knew that they were going to come after me. And so after about two months,

01:13:20.480 I went to my elder, my head, one of my elders, a guy I was a good friends with, I thought,

01:13:24.840 and said, hey, just to let you know, there's this drama that you don't know anything about,

01:13:28.680 because it's just a small rural parish. They don't pay any attention to that stuff,

01:13:32.240 just like I didn't used to. I said, there's a lot of really bad stuff going on in the LCMS.

01:13:37.960 I have illustrated some of it publicly. They have said they intend to harm me. They intend to expose

01:13:43.940 my name. And if and when they succeed in doing that, they're going to come down on this church

01:13:48.320 and say, you guys have to kick me out. And so I wanted him to know so that he wouldn't be horrified

01:13:53.320 that this Nazi was secretly in his congregation. Like, look, here's my podcast. Here's what I'm 0.70

01:13:59.300 doing. I want you to know before you get blindsided that I've done all this in clean conscience. I've

01:14:05.640 gotten all this in good faith. I've done all this as a Christian because the stuff that's going on

01:14:10.560 is evil. And I told him, please don't share this information with anyone because they intend to

01:14:16.360 hurt me. And the very first thing that he did was to communicate to the Missouri Synod satellite

01:14:23.000 office in the district in my state to give them my name, which was immediately passed up the chain.

01:14:30.040 And so within two weeks of that, the pastors I've been arguing with for years on Twitter

01:14:35.080 started gloating that they knew who I was.

01:14:38.560 They started sharing information, bits and pieces, details of where I live, my docs.

01:14:44.960 They didn't name me or anything explicitly, but they made it clear they knew who I was.

01:14:48.560 The only way that could have happened was through my church.

01:14:50.380 so a couple months later

01:14:53.280 an Antifa doc of me

01:14:55.640 was published on

01:14:57.380 Antifa hosted

01:14:58.560 infrastructure

01:15:01.260 I was no blogs

01:15:02.800 which again the only way to be on there 1.00

01:15:04.940 is to be a child rapist who is an 1.00

01:15:07.400 Antifa terrorist who's been vetted 1.00

01:15:09.480 that is the only way to be able

01:15:11.440 to publish on no blogs

01:15:12.440 and so the Antifa docs went back

01:15:15.420 to 2017

01:15:16.160 had my various accounts

01:15:18.060 And I'm, I'm not a narcissist, but I enjoy reading about myself. This was so long and poorly written. I got like a quarter of the way through it and just, I closed it. Not because I was upset, because it was just stupid. They really desperately needed an editor. But even at that point, a lot of the stuff that they said made me, like my friends who read it said, this sounds way cooler than you really are, dude. And like, yeah, there's, they're idiots.

01:15:42.000 It's like they tried to make it seem scandalous, but in reality, they made it seem like I was 1.00

01:15:46.320 much more impactful than I thought I was at the time.

01:15:49.960 Crucially, this is making a long story long, there were details in that dox that could

01:15:55.360 have only possibly come from my church.

01:15:58.040 There were things that Antifa could not have possibly known that were not public anywhere

01:16:02.200 except in corporate records of my church.

01:16:05.180 So I can state as an absolute legal certainty that the LCMS Corporation caused me to be

01:16:10.320 doxed, and they used the Antifa cutout to do it. I know the names of a dozen of the men involved

01:16:15.700 in the LCMS and other organizations who did that. And they did it because I said, you know what,

01:16:22.180 maybe raping kids is not just a speck in your neighbor's eye. And at the time, I didn't realize 0.98

01:16:27.900 that that was directly over the target. I thought it was just sort of incidentally offensive

01:16:35.020 that they would throw in pedophilia as a sexual orientation. What I've come to learn over the

01:16:39.960 last couple of years, is that their vehement attacks against me and against Corey, specifically 0.94

01:16:44.860 in defense of raping kids, was not coincidental.

01:16:48.520 It was, in fact, self-defense. 0.99

01:16:52.140 No, that makes perfect sense.

01:16:54.960 And it's genuinely shocking to the ordinary person, the extent to which so many of these

01:17:04.840 political networks are almost explicitly uh exist as ways for various criminal elements

01:17:12.400 and like uh sexual degenerate elements to launder influence uh anyone involved in politics

01:17:21.300 uh conservative politics especially like institutional conservative politics

01:17:25.800 very quickly learns just how much 1.00

01:17:30.160 like gays and sodomites 1.00

01:17:36.800 run the institutional organs of most 1.00

01:17:40.120 conservative political movements. These are the people who

01:17:44.700 get deeply involved in conservative politics because suddenly they have an

01:17:50.460 excuse to travel and they get to launder

01:17:52.640 uh because they're conservative they're laundering their generacy into normalcy

01:17:57.780 but it also gives them an excuse to travel and and network and form tight-knit political

01:18:06.300 alliances specifically to advance whatever criminal activity or degenerate activity they're doing

01:18:13.840 uh it's and there are of course we we can see this at the high level right now with epstein

01:18:25.880 but this happens in miniature uh across the institutional spectrum

01:18:31.600 i remember in university we knew which of our professors were hiv positive often because they

01:18:41.140 brag about it but uh the the way that uh these legacy institutions were used to

01:18:48.440 to launder money and prestige across these networks cannot be underestimated by by anyone

01:18:57.160 and it's quite shocking uh we are at the hour mark right now uh uh were there any more points

01:19:09.400 you want want to get to or would you want to move into what are what our listeners are waiting for

01:19:15.820 with bated breath which is the uh paganism versus christianity discussion uh one of the other

01:19:23.720 questions that you asked kind of about the stone choir process was how would right-wingers create

01:19:29.600 a meaningful substantive complete products instead of just content which is kind of where you started

01:19:34.400 Yeah, yeah, that's been a, that's an ongoing project of mine. I'm hoping to have several other commentators on who are quite good to speak about this. Pete Quinone is especially I'm keen to have on and hopefully looks like I will because he's also done this intense long form podcasting type stuff.

01:20:00.360 for us it was very important you know we we knew from the inception before we began

01:20:08.900 that we were building a library catalog we tried to be as much as possible never to do anything

01:20:15.120 ripped from the headlines so that it wouldn't get stale and so when you listen to the episodes you

01:20:20.780 know we're talking about current events as they were happening but it was always it was it was

01:20:25.900 usually not the point and if it was used as an example it was an example of a broader

01:20:31.540 understanding that was necessary and probably a perspective that was entirely missing from a lot

01:20:38.100 of discourse and so we we hope that our value add would be helping people to understand how to think

01:20:46.840 better because that's something that people are frankly just usually not good at they're not good

01:20:51.620 thinking. People process things kind of one at a time. And one of the episode 99 towards the end

01:20:58.920 was on the context window. I use the example from LLMs. If you've interacted with AIs, they have a

01:21:05.680 fixed context window of, it's a fixed number of tokens or basically kind of words that you can

01:21:10.680 interact with it before it starts to lose its mind. And anything that doesn't fit in the context

01:21:15.720 window just doesn't exist. And when you start to push the edges of the context window with an LLM,

01:21:21.620 you start to hallucinate more and it can't really, it gets fuzzy. If you're talking,

01:21:26.280 if you're having a conversation with an AI, it will usually do a really good job at sticking

01:21:30.740 to the first thing that you said and the last things that were said. And the longer the

01:21:34.440 conversation goes on, the stuff in the middle gets really fuzzy. So we'll start getting confused and

01:21:39.560 contradicting itself or just forgetting what was said, which is exactly how people work.

01:21:44.260 Like the more we look at the bugs and LLMs that are just doing a bunch of fancy math to try to

01:21:50.740 generate knowledge graphs we're simulating how human brains work i always laugh and i usually 0.99

01:21:57.760 try to post about it every time there's some new headline say i can't believe how stupid this lm 0.93

01:22:02.040 does is look look at this new flaw that we found in how lms generate their data like you realize 0.98

01:22:08.560 that describes 99.99 percent of human beings too like when we're trying to say that these ais are 0.67

01:22:14.400 not rational which i don't believe they can be but when when you start attacking them as that's 0.71

01:22:21.600 just stupid i'm like bro everyone that you know is the same you have to you have to think about 0.99

01:22:28.900 what you're saying if you're attacking these lms because they're already much smarter than 1.00

01:22:32.740 everybody you know even if that's not real intelligence even if there's never the possibility

01:22:37.080 of any reason is in a consciousness it calls into question what consciousness is at the human level

01:22:44.240 and so we understood that because people don't have a context window to be able to hold in

01:22:51.880 years and decades of all this myriad types of information it would be really helpful for us

01:23:00.060 to distill here's the way to think about this i'll pause for a second i need to take a break

01:23:06.880 take a drink no problem uh the i i i quite like this point and this is one of the things that

01:23:19.020 every effect of tradition you find whether that's a religious tradition or philosophical

01:23:23.440 or a complete philosophical tradition like uh like shintoism or the various asian religions

01:23:30.660 is that basically every effective tradition exists to create a deep context in the mind,

01:23:43.780 the thinker, and a pass-heavy context.

01:23:54.660 So obviously in Christianity, you read the Old Testament,

01:24:00.160 You read the New Testament, and you really, across the Bible, if you read it cover to cover, you get this very deep grounding in a tradition that, depending on the dating, I'd argue that the Old Testament kind of dates to around like 300 to 400 B.C., although a lot of people say it's quite older.

01:24:24.640 But you get this grounding in a tradition that has this immense well of context of how people interact, how societies interact, how institutions interact, various spiritual ways of living, this entire repertoire of lives that have existed in various cases of extremity.

01:24:50.440 the people get embarrassed by the like the incest and the war and the conflicts in the bible or

01:25:00.000 other religious traditions it's like no that's very important for you to have that in context

01:25:04.660 because because all that can be cropping up in your life and you have to to have a frame of

01:25:12.060 reference for that you know if you don't have a deep tradition that goes goes back thousands of

01:25:18.100 years you probably don't have a reference for like anything that happened on epstein island or

01:25:22.520 anything or any of the revelations around that because it's so far out of your immediate experience

01:25:29.280 that it wasn't something that was on tv in the past 50 years whereas if you are in a deep tradition

01:25:36.720 whether that's a christianity or shintoism or or uh or the hellenic or norse pagan tradition

01:25:44.400 You have a very deep well of examples of things such as that happening and examples of people resisting it and otherwise that it's very important for you to be able to contextualize the world around you.

01:26:02.140 Often I see this with my grandmother-in-law and other people that a lot of people, history does not exist.

01:26:11.380 Like this is where World War II is such a core part of the modern mythos and modern morality because it's the biggest thing that happened in the living memory of someone who's still alive or the living memory of, you know, someone who's alive met them.

01:26:31.560 And you can see this massive crisis across the West that the World War II generation is basically dead.

01:26:38.880 And all the boomers who knew them and knew all their stories and, like, had it be foundational that, no, that's something that happened to all these people.

01:26:48.360 All of them are going senile or, like, fading away themselves.

01:26:52.640 So the entire mythology of the entire West is going from being built around this thing to, you know, to what extent did the Napoleonic Wars actually happen in the imagination of anyone alive today?

01:27:10.060 Like, the vast majority of people relate to history more than, like, 50 years before they were born as the same way they relate to, like, Game of Thrones or Narnia or Lord of the Rings.

01:27:23.020 That it's like, oh, yeah, that's a story that, like, nerds get into.

01:27:28.480 It doesn't actually matter.

01:27:30.220 Or, like, it isn't actually real.

01:27:32.220 My grandmother is like this for most of history.

01:27:35.500 She's like this for some things that happened in her life.

01:27:37.780 but uh but most people like history does not exist to them or like these classical or historical

01:27:47.700 frames of references are the exact same thing as uh as fictional world building you know and

01:27:55.200 the real question is well was there a good tv show about it or not because that's more real to

01:28:00.420 to them and the points of like most traditions like this most cultural traditions and

01:28:11.300 i'd argue they vary quite a lot depending on whether uh you look at like uh the british

01:28:18.680 empire in like the 19th early 20th century and there's this entire like intense historical

01:28:25.420 tradition around getting young boys to imagine all the battles of the british empire um i i have

01:28:32.820 an extensive library that um my my kids will one day read that just was established in canada at

01:28:44.540 the time to just teach every little boy boy and girl every little detail of the british empire

01:28:51.680 from like the Armada in Spain to Gordon in China fighting the Boxer Rebellion,

01:29:02.520 that that entire cultural knowledge, an extraordinary amount of effort

01:29:06.840 had to be put in to teaching that and having people conceptualize all that.

01:29:12.380 Because, of course, the second you stop trying to enforce it or to reinforce it,

01:29:19.620 all those things immediately become just another fictional universe,

01:29:25.780 just another, like, story that someone heard.

01:29:28.380 And I think, yeah, maybe that's real.

01:29:30.640 That it's very easy for those wisdoms to be lost.

01:29:34.320 And that's really a part of my project is to bring these traditions

01:29:41.680 and these, like, intensive cultural groundings

01:29:48.780 in the traditions of people in the bio the biology of the tribe and the the history of

01:29:57.240 of our nations bring that back to the forefront because because of course like right now

01:30:03.540 you know there's been one movie about the american revolution and so americans it doesn't

01:30:09.560 really matter to them or but the american revolution is just about milk gifts and

01:30:13.460 charting with a flake. And also, you know, they have to rip down that one movie as well.

01:30:22.840 I think you made a really interesting point about how it's much easier for people to connect with

01:30:28.660 older history than what just happened, either in childhood or, you know, your parents' childhood. 0.72

01:30:35.340 And I think that's a key part of the project in destroying the West, is that if you look at

01:30:42.500 what your parents and grandparents believed and what they grew up with and you take it as real 0.79

01:30:48.180 as you described you know kids putting themselves in the midst of those british battles that's a

01:30:54.200 recipe for revolution because you know it's i like i said like i i was i was a 90s kid when it comes

01:31:00.840 like you know secondary school high school timing and so when those clips are going around of high

01:31:09.380 school in the 90s, to me, that just looks like high school. And yet apparently to Zoomers, it

01:31:15.080 looks like an alien country. And while on one level, I can sort of see where things are maybe 0.92

01:31:20.880 a little bit different. Honestly, I know that intellectually, I can't understand where they're

01:31:26.540 coming from. I believe them. I absolutely believe that their experience is totally different than

01:31:31.860 mine but looking at it i don't understand like when i see footage today and i see that i can't

01:31:40.340 see the difference which is why generational discontinuity is so completely destructive to

01:31:47.260 to any civilization and we we did an episode specifically on the generations talking about

01:31:53.620 what a catastrophe it is when your country your world your society is changing so quickly

01:32:00.820 that a father, a son, and a grandfather all have radically different experiences at the same point

01:32:08.460 in their lives, where dad can't give his son advice about school because school has changed

01:32:13.900 that much. And grandpa might as well be an alien. How does anything work when men cannot pass wisdom

01:32:22.260 literally to their progeny? Because it's irrelevant. The disconnect is so great because

01:32:28.500 of the velocity of change and therefore kids just become alienated and disconnected from

01:32:34.900 previous generations because what good is it you know if one of the things we talked about early

01:32:40.120 on is how i'm thankful that you know when we started i was talking to a lot of much younger 0.88

01:32:44.800 guys you know half my age or younger because i would have been saying stupid things if i just

01:32:50.800 said what i thought was true instead of talking to them and hearing what they told me was true

01:32:55.820 and i said in whichever episode that was probably the same one this is not a question of the relying

01:33:04.380 on the wisdom of children or anything nonsense like that if kids knew if young if young men

01:33:11.140 understood how much had been taken from them there would be a violent revolt flat out and

01:33:19.080 it's only the fact that they can't understand that pacifies everyone until the project is

01:33:25.280 completed and that's that's true in every sphere it's true in every one of the institutions in the 1.00

01:33:31.560 west and whether you're looking at education i'd argue the zoomers uh to a large extent do 0.94

01:33:39.880 understand because um like uh there's this huge gap between uh the tv generations and the um

01:33:50.340 and the video game social media generations at that um basically the way you relate to tv

01:33:59.520 is you consume it and as long as you like go along to get along like you don't rage quit the tv

01:34:05.780 you'll get a happy ending at the end some some way via conversation like uh every tv episode ends

01:34:14.100 with a peaceful conversation that um you know and then there's a happy ending uh the girl in

01:34:23.300 little house on the prairie didn't have rabies uh the the kids that fought make peace at at the end

01:34:31.080 of the episode you know the after school special everyone relates to each other and everyone's

01:34:35.260 actually nice whereas and the consumption pattern is that you watch it you endure the commercials

01:34:43.380 and the conflict and then you get a reward at the end for having sat quietly and patiently

01:34:48.000 and it's the exact same reward loop as school tries to beat into you you know sit quietly

01:34:55.480 and patiently and at the end you'll be rewarded for doing nothing whereas uh video games and

01:35:04.740 social media both had the opposite reward loop where uh in a video game nothing happens unless

01:35:12.140 you violently make it happen uh you know if you just sit there your character will do do nothing

01:35:19.140 and the actual reward loop of video games the highest level play is actually breaking the game

01:35:27.020 so uh if you watch uh speed runners or um let's players or like modders who are at the highest

01:35:36.320 level of like video game consumers like people who have won at video games hard enough that they

01:35:41.980 can make videos of themselves playing video games and like earn a living doing it uh these guys have

01:35:49.520 like pushed the game to the point where it's broken and it's like more their creation than

01:35:54.140 the original creators um i i recently watched a series up i have an article on this uh the top

01:36:02.580 pure special of um on dark souls 2 where these guys set themselves the challenge of beating

01:36:11.120 beating dark souls uh or achieving something in dark souls i don't think it was actually beating

01:36:18.360 the game but they had to progress all this way through the game without ever beating a boss

01:36:22.820 the thing is you have to defeat a boss to progress to the defeat bosses to progress to the game

01:36:28.460 so it was a video of the of these guys um like breaking the game like clipping through walls

01:36:39.380 and like exploiting all these different bugs and features to defeat the game without defeating

01:36:45.760 bosses and then to break the game again so that they could uh level up or advance their character

01:36:52.700 enough to be like able to do combat to progress through the later levels without having done any

01:36:59.180 of the earlier your stuff but like that was one level and then the next level was they're using

01:37:05.120 ai on the video and their commentary to turn themselves into the characters from top gear

01:37:10.900 the tv show and the entire editing was aping top gear the british tv show which is of course is

01:37:17.560 totally dissonant with the video game dark souls as anything in the world but completely mashed up

01:37:26.200 these two styles of showing them both breaking the medium of the youtube video and breaking

01:37:32.560 the video game itself and that's how zoomers relate to both media and social media that the

01:37:40.140 goal is to like completely break what they're they're working on and turn it into something 0.91

01:37:46.020 entirely their own. And what I see with Zimmers is that they understand very explicitly 0.98

01:37:56.880 the history that they're interacting with, like their point in history, what the past was like

01:38:04.820 for their parents, because they aren't relating to it through media or like only very 0.64

01:38:11.440 The mid-IQ women are watching any of the TV shows that are put out now, you know, bed-a-rotting and watching Netflix. 0.62

01:38:20.620 The Zoomer men, almost all of them, have like this intensive relationship to history, very much like how they relate to video games, 0.97

01:38:31.640 that they're going to rip out every detail they possibly can and like piece together the lost lore that's supposed to be hidden from them. 0.99

01:38:39.760 and because of this uh like there is no zoomer normie left like there's shockingly few zoomer

01:38:48.280 normies or like if they are they're like the insane like bed rotting girl turbo normies

01:38:54.660 who become like uh like the people at like ice protests like there's no moderate in the zoomer 0.92

01:39:02.560 generation they're all extremists and probably the only reason america has not already had a like 0.97

01:39:09.380 civil war the west has not already erupted in revolutions is because of the mass glut of people

01:39:16.400 over the age of like is it 50 over the age of like 60 70 even who are like binding this system

01:39:24.800 together with like dead hand and you see this in politics like uh like trump and all these political

01:39:31.100 figures who are like actually at the top of the system are like in their 70s and 80s uh that

01:39:39.500 i could see the the zoomer awareness of the world and the zoomer like complete irreverent relationship

01:39:49.960 to everything uh very quickly ripping things apart uh just with like a few deaths at the top 0.94

01:39:58.980 level uh really i'm not quite sure how much the the boomer world holds together but this is 0.67

01:40:05.460 like uh there there's something very caustic and like very different 0.72

01:40:11.640 than everything that has gone before inherent in the zoomer

01:40:15.300 that makes a lot of sense i i didn't mean the zooms are ignorant by any stretch or that they're

01:40:24.860 impotent. I specifically meant they couldn't possibly know what it's like to have a life like

01:40:30.020 I did where until I was 12, I never saw anybody with white people my entire life. You can't

01:40:37.860 imagine that if you haven't experienced it. You can intellectually insert yourself into it. It's

01:40:43.000 not the same as experiencing it. Because the contrast between the experience of that world,

01:40:51.440 my world as a kid and the experience of you can't go anywhere without hearing seven languages

01:40:57.620 it there's such a disconnect that even thinking about oh well everyone's like me and everyone

01:41:04.700 you know speaks the same language it is a fantasy it has to be it necessarily has to be because

01:41:10.220 without having done it in person it's just not the same which is why when I look at clips today

01:41:17.000 of high school i i can't tell the difference like i can't put myself in that and see any difference

01:41:22.140 because i'm not experiencing in the same way that they are and that's not about i don't think i what

01:41:27.340 you said about tv and video games is very insightful i think it's interesting but i'm not

01:41:32.020 talking about being shaped by tv i'm talking about any knowledge whatsoever

01:41:36.460 i know that makes sense i yeah that's what i mean like it's just it it's shamed it shamed so it

01:41:46.140 it changed so quickly that we are mutually alien to each other in terms of

01:41:51.960 what seems normal to us because the world that I grew up with

01:41:55.880 yeah and that that's catastrophic like that that all by itself that is the death of civilization

01:42:02.980 when generations are disconnected from each other to the point that nothing can be passed along

01:42:07.280 it's game over even apart from demographics and all the rest and then on top of it you have 15

01:42:15.060 other problems that are equally fatal one 100 mind you uh this is this is part of the reason

01:42:26.880 why i'm very invested in uh in paganism in euro history specifically is we have at various points

01:42:35.300 been in much worse spots than uh we will we will discuss shortly uh that i i wouldn't count as out

01:42:44.520 yet by miles. Uh, when you read, uh, the Caesar's Gaelic Wars or, uh, Plutarch's life from

01:42:54.360 Various or any of the stories of like the migratory wars of the Boks of Onderon or, um,

01:43:00.740 accounts of the 30 years war, uh, you quickly realize that like, A, it's horrifying because

01:43:08.120 it can get so so much worse it can get 10 000 times worse it can get get miles and miles worse

01:43:15.040 than you could possibly imagine but also we survived that and like in spite of all that

01:43:22.900 germany is still german somehow we were fighting each other that's the difference those are no no

01:43:31.280 So consistently the Germans were being invaded by the Mongols, Attila, the Turks, the Romans who weren't really ethnically continuous with them at all.

01:43:47.820 Like, uh, uh, foreign ethnic invasions of white lands are like one of the most consistent things in history going back, uh, before recorded history, like long before Thermopylae even, that, uh, these are consistent things.

01:44:07.620 and the ability of various white territories to suddenly switch 0.54

01:44:17.360 and, like, go into often the most apocalyptic modes of warfare to stop it

01:44:24.500 is one of the consistent things about history that I've been meaning to document it all.

01:44:31.920 but uh that we might get into that in the pending discussion we might not

01:44:39.080 do you think that those were wars of extermination oh yes 100 percent uh uh the

01:44:49.640 uh marius's uh plutarch's life of marius uh the

01:44:56.980 The invasion of Italy by the Symbrians, this Germanic tribe, the way the Germans would—basically almost all ancient Germanic wars were wars of extermination to a large extent. 0.73

01:45:16.000 The tribes themselves would burn every standing structure, every piece of grain they had that they couldn't take with them, load up their wagons, wife, child, animals, everything. 0.95

01:45:32.620 The elderly they couldn't take with them would often be burned as well. 0.77

01:45:38.280 And then as an entire tribe of like 500,000, they go on these like 1,000-mile treks into a new territory or some other territory that they thought they could take and hold.

01:45:58.120 And they'd fight these apocalyptic battles with the young men in front, the old men beside them.

01:46:09.480 And then at the back of the battle line, their women and children would stand there, the women screaming bloody murder that they'd rather bash their babies' brains out than be taken slaves.

01:46:22.600 uh the young girls standing with spears threatening to run down any man that turned and

01:46:30.640 tried to fled flee and basically about half the time they succeeded uh so there was an example of

01:46:42.300 This, the Vandals actually made it from Germany, fleeing Attila and a push in by very Slavic peoples.

01:46:54.440 Went from Germany through France, through Spain to Gibraltar, managed to migrate 500,000 people on ships across the pillars of Hercules to North Africa, and then conquered Carthage. 0.56

01:47:12.300 This was in the late Roman Empire around the fall.

01:47:16.140 And they had a Visigothic kingdom in northern Africa until the Byzantine emperor eventually defeated them but managed to negotiate.

01:47:25.360 And they eventually migrated around to Anatolia, around Constantinople at that point, and became part of the household guard of the Byzantine emperor.

01:47:40.720 And their ethnicity was there right up until the fall of Constantine, Opal in 1498.

01:47:50.720 But there are other examples like the Cimbrian who invaded Rome and Marius crushed them. 0.86

01:47:56.880 And the Cimbrian army and the Teutones did break.

01:48:01.980 And Plutarch works in horrid detail. 0.97

01:48:05.780 The women actually spearing down their brothers and husbands and sons. 0.99

01:48:10.720 And then, like, bashing their babes' brains open with axes before, like, hanging themselves on the poles of their wagons.

01:48:19.460 That, like, apparently, the number that's given is, like, 70,000 people committed suicide in about, like, three, four hours.

01:48:29.920 More, almost akin in scale to the fall of Berlin.

01:48:34.160 but uh but like these you see these massive exterminationist tribal wars of like all or

01:48:43.640 nothing uh about every hundred years in uh central european history like uh but you think well after

01:48:53.380 the end of rome this kind of ends and then you actually look and it's like no the hussite war

01:48:58.660 was actually like very similar to this no the 30 years war was kind of similar to this actually

01:49:03.480 this is kind of analogous to napoleon's invasion of russia russia that you see the echo lines

01:49:11.300 that uh the these wars in which hundreds of thousands millions millions die apocalyptically

01:49:19.980 uh man woman child all loading up in wagons and stuff uh you see this recurring regularly

01:49:28.060 um right down to the images of like uh 12 year old and boys and 16 year old girls uh

01:49:37.360 foreign panzerfaust units in the defense of berlin uh i i've this is one of the things i'm

01:49:44.940 now a black pillar because i know how much vastly worse things can get and have gotten and 0.69

01:49:51.240 and you know only for white europeans to lose and yet they're still here 0.70

01:49:58.980 uh it's you'd be amazed at what your your ancestors have endured to get you here to your

01:50:08.540 listener uh uh the account of the buddhika war war are themselves horrifying and

01:50:18.540 yet because these wars that were often lost were fought like the tribes themselves uh often

01:50:27.260 survived quite shockingly and but this might lead into uh the the paganism christianity discussion

01:50:37.340 yeah so let me ask you a question do you think that paganism was the one and only difference

01:50:45.600 there because as i as i look at things today i like i think one of my ancestors might actually

01:50:54.040 be one of the vandal rulers i've traced some of my ancestry back that far you know assuming it's

01:50:58.400 not completely apocryphal i don't i don't care either way but like i've traced the ancestry

01:51:03.040 back to the third and fourth century i know the arguments against some of that but i'm descended

01:51:08.960 from variations of all those people. What I don't see today is the spine and the bloodthirsty

01:51:19.900 ability to see that there is an existential enemy right in front of us and we're going to fix this

01:51:25.760 once and for all. It seems to me, it feels like that's been completely bred out of us over the

01:51:31.520 last century or so. I think that's recent. I think that in the West, we formalized warfare

01:51:40.180 more. It started shifting into the kind of the rules of war mentality to some extent.

01:51:47.360 But we didn't lose our ability to wage war. We just sort of adjusted the rules for when we would

01:51:53.560 apply it. So it seems to me like it's only in the last century and a half-ish. I don't know

01:52:01.360 where I would draw the line. But I feel like the ability to say, you know what, we need to wipe

01:52:07.100 these people out, because it's us or them. I don't think any race of Europeans has that left. 1.00

01:52:15.460 I'd love to be. And so that's why I wonder if you think that paganism is the only thing that's 1.00

01:52:20.440 missing there. Because, I mean, obviously, I'm not sure how you get from here to there. But

01:52:27.020 I'm just curious what other variables you think apply.

01:52:30.420 So it would be very flattering to me to say that it was all like the loss of paganism.

01:52:37.460 I know a lot of pagans who would try to make that argument.

01:52:40.880 But to really understand kind of the transformation, I think you have to look at the conversion to Christianity.

01:52:48.860 Because what you see is all these various tribes in Northern Europe converted to Christianity about the same time.

01:52:58.160 Like there are some early ones, like there were some violent conversions like with the War of Charlemagne.

01:53:03.660 But when you actually look at like the pagan holdouts, with the exception of Latvia, which actually was violently conquered and like Saxony early on.

01:53:15.500 almost all the pagan conversions were shockingly peaceful and a lot of the traditions like

01:53:20.860 continued uh uh if you if your family at christmas uh leaves leaves uh milking cookies

01:53:31.280 out for uh for santa or leaves uh carrots out for rudolf uh that's actually that exact ritual

01:53:41.520 is actually a pagan tradition.

01:53:44.360 This is documented in Sweden in the 19th century

01:53:47.400 that children on Yuletide or Christmas

01:53:53.120 would leave carrots and other treats out for sleet near Odin's horse.

01:54:02.340 That a lot of the Santa Claus myths,

01:54:05.660 their Saint Nicholas, which is its own tradition,

01:54:08.540 but a lot of the Father Christmas Santa Claus myths

01:54:10.940 specifically the traveling uh is a lot of that is borrowed from from odin and specifically sleep

01:54:18.280 near his horse was an eight-legged horse that allowed him to travel and thus the eight reindeer

01:54:23.260 santa claus you can see this transformation happened but uh that was in 19th century that

01:54:29.900 children were still leaving leaving treats out for a norse pagan god god like deep into the

01:54:37.400 Christian era, and these folk traditions still persisted. And this is what you see throughout

01:54:43.380 medieval Europe, is that there's this intense symbiosis between the pagan cultural traditions

01:54:53.520 and the Christian traditions. Famously, King Arthur. A lot of the Celtic traditions are lost,

01:55:00.040 but in a lot of ways, they just morphed into the Arthurian tradition. And if you read the stories

01:55:04.740 of king arthur going up to like uh sir thomas mallory uh 1490 92 he wrote like he was one of

01:55:14.000 the first work stepper go to the printing press like all those stories included all these magical

01:55:19.400 artifacts all these wizards all these uh figures that are very clearly not like there are christian

01:55:26.020 elements in there like uh sir balin wields the spear of destiny uh that pierce christ's sides and

01:55:33.320 they quest for the holy grail which um there's debate whether because the grail itself is not

01:55:40.460 like a holy artifact in like the bible it doesn't even get get much of a mention but uh it so there's

01:55:48.800 talk that it is an adaptation of an early year celtic horn of plenty but uh you look at the

01:55:56.520 pagan tradition and what really happened almost everywhere in northern europe is that uh

01:56:02.540 the kings of northern europe adopted christianity because christianity had a massive advantage in

01:56:10.940 that it had inherited all the roman civic institutions so like uh the monasteries uh

01:56:18.160 all the institutions of of like roman administrative life were all adapted into the

01:56:26.260 the church and this is like a free tech upgrade that if you adapted christianity uh you got like

01:56:32.980 like five parts of the tech tree filled out that you got everything rome rome had developed

01:56:40.960 so uh you got the christian uh inheritance rules which were very useful to european kings because

01:56:50.000 they justified hereditary rule uh before that the various pagan traditions they would elect

01:56:56.260 kings like you'd be elected for life but it lasted the extent of your life and charlemagne

01:57:01.280 actually exploited this he'd assassinate uh rival kings because he knew how to throw uh rival nations

01:57:07.680 into chaos that all suddenly all their their alliances would fall apart and they'd have to

01:57:12.900 elect a new king, and it'd probably start a civil war. 0.98

01:57:17.640 Do you want to see with the adaptation of Christianity

01:57:20.040 is that really in pagan Europe,

01:57:24.300 there wasn't a church that Christianity was replacing.

01:57:29.040 Like, you'd think there'd be all these forces

01:57:32.020 pushing back against adopting Christianity,

01:57:34.240 that there'd be an existing church or existing institutions.

01:57:37.800 And what you see, really, is that, no,

01:57:40.700 So in medieval, in pagan Europe, like the center of the church, the center of spiritual life was the household, the clan, the extended clan.

01:57:51.380 The king was a mystical fair.

01:57:56.020 Like you see this in Rome as well.

01:57:58.260 Julius Caesar was both dictator for life and he was Pontifex Maximus.

01:58:02.100 He was technically one of the first popes.

01:58:05.960 He had the exact same title as the pope.

01:58:08.080 and that division into religious life and the emperor being separate is a very very later

01:58:17.220 christian development so what these european medieval pagan kings were really doing when

01:58:26.480 they adopted christianity wasn't that they were like getting rid of anything and to a large extent

01:58:32.240 they didn't get rid of much of their traditions there were a few very faithful ones who adapted

01:58:37.560 it a whole hog again charlemagne but uh most of them what you see is they adopt christianity which

01:58:45.460 is they let the the christian priests in and then shockingly little else changed because

01:58:52.060 institutionally all the institutions that were pagan uh kept continuing because the center of

01:58:59.580 pagan life was uh the warrior aristocracy uh odin's odin is a god of warriors you know those

01:59:09.440 are his natural priests is like the old man warrior uh that's his archetype there there

01:59:17.140 weren't like existing rivaled uh monastery systems of pagan pagan monks and stuff that

01:59:27.080 the christians were replacing it's just this new institution was coming in and you know it's like

01:59:33.480 it's like if a bowling alley opened your today oh this is naturally replacing the post office

01:59:40.440 that'd be very weird if you did think think that those are completely different institutions you

01:59:45.880 need a very extensive story to explain how a bowling alley would replace a post office

01:59:50.200 uh so for and from the most part in european history uh christianity didn't really replace

01:59:57.880 uh most pagan institutions we have accounts from european kings in like the 13th and 14th century

02:00:04.520 uh saying that they had been visited by odin uh that that this is this is a topic of some debate

02:00:13.040 but we do have accounts of european kings saying that they had been visited by odin that uh that

02:00:19.580 this wandering guy had showed up and they granted him hospitality, like traditional hospitality

02:00:23.880 rights. And then they came away believing that this man who had said some creepy wise things

02:00:29.560 was the Norse god. And you can imagine, you know, monks and bishops and whatnot,

02:00:36.560 uh, might be indulgent towards this or they might really poo poo it, poo it. But, um, you know,

02:00:43.720 the king is the king. He's the guy with all the violence. It, they were never really in a position

02:00:49.180 to enforce that by and large.

02:00:51.860 And you see this continuity of European spiritual traditions

02:00:57.920 to the point of, and this continues in a large extent

02:01:04.100 into the 16th century, or at least we can see it

02:01:09.740 largely continuing in the 16th century,

02:01:12.080 that you have English works like The Fairy Queen

02:01:15.460 written by Spencer for Queen Elizabeth.

02:01:19.180 talking about the fairy mythology of England or Shakespeare's gothic stories.

02:01:28.120 Hamlet being visited by the ghost of his father, which is, you know,

02:01:31.820 no one's visited by a ghost that has to tell them a dark secret about revenge in the Bible. 0.95

02:01:36.520 Like, it's not a Jewish story.

02:01:38.980 It's a very, or like a Christian story, really.

02:01:43.740 It's a very naturally, like, English Celtic story.

02:01:47.840 the idea that this vengeful ghost is going to visit you late at night and tell you who actually

02:01:54.240 murdered him. You know, it's a story almost as old as time in England, but it's very English,

02:02:00.540 very Celtic. And you see the Norns appear in Shakespeare, the Weird Sisters. There are the

02:02:09.120 three fates in Hellenic mythology, but there's also the Norse version. And the Norns specifically,

02:02:16.680 uh there is the three sisters almost exactly appear in a ancient viking poem that uh the

02:02:26.760 almost the exact same setup of two warriors traveling along in the count of three crepey

02:02:31.900 sisters uh in the norse version uh they're said to be valkyrie or another but they're working a

02:02:37.960 great loom with uh human entrails for string and skulls for uh for weights and swords for petals

02:02:46.540 and they tell their fortune and the fortune is like cursed in some way and this is like one of

02:02:53.000 the classic like monster creeping random encounters you might have as a viking and

02:02:58.180 and shakespeare writes this into his tale of a christian scottish king in the 11th century and

02:03:05.340 what you see throughout the medieval period is there's this like persistent continuation of the

02:03:12.660 pagan and the christian tradition uh basically in what we'd recognize as like early fantasy or like

02:03:20.480 early myth mythology that uh that whether it's like the arthurian court or the uh shakespearean

02:03:27.320 world uh you have both of these coexisting like basically along different lines because the pagans

02:03:34.700 weren't building big elaborate institutions or like they traditionally even hadn't been a folk

02:03:42.020 tradition had been a story passed on from like fathers to son telling creepy creepy stories

02:03:48.360 that are meant to teach you something about being a warrior and throughout well into the early

02:03:55.500 modern period you can see this uh that the the violent warrior aristocracy and the christian

02:04:05.380 uh the christian uh church tradition are really running in parallel uh right down to like figures

02:04:13.720 like napoleon are like very obviously more invested in in alexander than uh than their

02:04:21.760 religious education in any sense uh napoleon like for all intents and purposes worships

02:04:32.160 alexander and caesar as gods which uh is a tradition that like hadn't really died out in

02:04:39.020 europe there are uh that are recorded amongst and so originally some were not but uh that are like

02:04:46.300 being freshly composed in the 11th, 12th, 13th century

02:04:49.400 about the adventures of Alexander,

02:04:52.320 or Alexander amongst the Anazons,

02:04:54.620 or Alexander bedding the Amazon queen. 0.56

02:04:59.980 Queen.

02:05:01.340 That is this extensive tradition,

02:05:04.240 and this is really kind of the heart of the thousand years

02:05:12.840 of modern European civilization from the medieval period to 1945 is you have these two traditions

02:05:20.200 really running in parallel and like sort of intersecting sort of not uh generally like

02:05:27.880 King Arthur the pagan stories uh right down to in some ways Indiana Jones uh you'll have

02:05:35.080 you'll have uh Christian artifacts and Christian stories intersecting with a

02:05:41.000 very pagan warrior adventure stories uh but what happens is world war one specifically kills it

02:05:50.440 because the last uh like warrior aristocracy traditions are perfectly killed off by woodrell

02:05:58.500 wilson so like uh world war one americans forget this entirely but uh world war one was sold to

02:06:07.020 America as this apocalyptic war to end absolute monarchy, to end monarchy in the world, to make

02:06:15.020 the world safe for democracy. World War I was the first war for democracy. And you actually saw

02:06:24.480 when the Russians had the revolution or lost the war, you saw various figures celebrating that now

02:06:32.300 it was morally clear. Now it was just all the democracies versus all the monarchies. Now that

02:06:40.520 we don't have to deal with the Romanovs, it can just be American, Britain, France versus 0.89

02:06:47.200 the Habsburgs and Kaiser Wilhelm. And as soon as the monarchies are wiped out, as soon as the 0.60

02:06:56.400 blast of aristocratic institutions are wiped out that's the system whereby paganism was

02:07:04.540 replicating itself like paganism and like these warrior aristocratic values that were like

02:07:10.260 pretty they were like largely for the most part like didn't overlap or didn't step on the toes

02:07:18.500 of a christian institution but were still like very continuous like you still had

02:07:23.860 intensive cult of like warrior hero worship he still had all these traditions uh most of the

02:07:30.160 monarchies of europe still have like the god odin in their genealogy uh george washington there's a

02:07:37.720 book from the 19th century that chases george washington's genealogy and uh and trying to

02:07:45.720 justify you know george washington was this great king of america and it traces its genealogy back

02:07:52.620 through swedish kings and it terminates with uh the god odin that apparently that odin is supposed

02:08:00.700 to have been the uh first first king of of norway or supposed to have begotten the first king

02:08:08.880 norway so even in the 19th century you see figures in america doing the genealogy of

02:08:16.940 george washington finding that he's descended from odin and all this is happening really in parallel

02:08:23.940 like this this intensive warrior culture that's really focused on these like homeric creepy stories

02:08:31.440 uh that and these stories of uh heroic warrior figures that um like episodes out of shakespeare

02:08:41.080 and out of homer and out of the viking sagas or out of like the cowboy westerns most of these

02:08:48.760 could be swapped out with each other and and i'd argue the point of this like homeric heroic

02:08:55.080 tradition is to just have such an abundance of these stories that you override of the rule

02:09:02.200 seeking part of like a war of mind that you've heard enough stories about like

02:09:07.180 a man encountering a woman in the road that you stop like trying to follow a specific script

02:09:15.380 because you you know 50 examples of this and you instead are like genuinely worrying genuinely

02:09:21.980 trusting your instincts uh that this tradition uh had been like operating in parallel in european

02:09:29.980 civilization. And then Woodrow Wilson purposely killed it. And that this budding American mass

02:09:38.580 democracy tradition that like, in some ways overlaps with the over Latinx religious populist

02:09:49.260 religious remnants of like the 19th century, that these had been budding up and like,

02:09:55.540 like purposely set out to try and kill off this uh this cultural and institutional tradition

02:10:04.380 that had been in europe for depending on how when you wanted to date it like

02:10:10.540 two thousand years like going back to the cambrain war in 100 bc but uh that that's

02:10:19.540 kind of my explanation like uh like why why the decay of the of europe and the west seems so tied

02:10:30.860 up with specifically christian morality and also why it didn't collapse until now is because uh

02:10:38.040 effective christian christian civilization for the past thousand years was these

02:10:42.980 two traditions running in parallel not really stepping on each other's feet and like producing

02:10:48.020 interesting cultural artifacts like uh like the arthurian cycle or the the works of shakespeare

02:10:53.600 and then and then just within like the past 150 years uh it was very purposely killed off

02:11:02.940 and now they're you'd struggle to point to an example of a warrior tradition in the west

02:11:09.560 does that make sense sir all of that is yeah it does and i'm actually glad to hear you say that

02:11:19.980 because i i don't hear anything in what you said that is parallel anything you're describing

02:11:28.640 tradition storytelling in culture that's just a people the race of the norse the race of the

02:11:35.940 Germans, the race of the Angles, it was preserved. They didn't go anywhere. They changed whom they 0.67

02:11:42.420 worshipped. They bent the knee to Christ, but otherwise they were unchanged. And so if there

02:11:49.180 were moral limitations that were altered, and it was the least of a departure for

02:11:55.120 many of those tribes. I know Corey likes to talk about the fact that

02:11:59.860 when the Germanic tribes were encountered, they were often described as being rigorously monogamous.

02:12:07.720 Like, they upheld things that are in the Ten Commandments, despite having no immediate

02:12:13.920 connection to them. And so saying, okay, my God whom I worship is Jesus, wasn't a change. To me,

02:12:22.480 as you described all that, it was very interesting, but I don't see anything that's not Christian.

02:12:27.820 I mean, yes, when you're talking about like Napoleon being a weirdo and worshiping Alexander, that crosses the line as a Christian. 0.95

02:12:35.860 Is there weird shit going on where people at the highest levels of power try to get even more power by violating moral taboos? 0.98

02:12:44.480 Always. 0.99

02:12:45.960 Not a surprise.

02:12:47.660 Not licit.

02:12:48.800 But that doesn't in any way prove that Europe has always been secretly pagan.

02:12:54.860 Europe has always been openly European.

02:12:56.580 like those are my stories and the genealogy thing odin's in my ancestry too i went back and i'm like

02:13:02.640 i'm descended from um pretty much kings in every western european country if you get back before 0.75

02:13:08.760 about 800 a.d in a couple of the norse ones trace back to odin which is obviously bullshit because

02:13:14.800 it wasn't i mean i there was no odin but there was a man like you can trace as a christian i believe

02:13:21.540 you can trace. I don't have the names, but my ancestry is lineal back to Adam, through Noah,

02:13:27.840 through Japheth, to all the rest. Those are all my grandfathers. And at some point, each of us

02:13:33.660 has grandfathers in common. So the mythology and the storytelling of there having been an Odin or

02:13:43.660 a Jove or a Jupiter, different names show up in different contexts, and there may or may not be

02:13:48.920 overlap. When they talk about him being a father of a people, there was a father of people.

02:13:56.820 That's literally the definition, you know, even in Webster's 1828 Dictionary of a Nation,

02:14:02.300 the descendants of a particular man. And so there was a man in the place of Odin,

02:14:08.820 if you go back far enough, for the people who claim descent from him. And you look elsewhere,

02:14:14.140 they don't say they have any descent from anyone. They could even possibly be etymologically

02:14:18.340 connected. As a Christian, I don't look at that and think, I mean, there's some syncretism going

02:14:27.180 on in the distant past, which can certainly cause problems as a Christian, but there was somebody

02:14:33.800 there. Like, even though I don't believe I'm descended from Odin, I'm descended from a man

02:14:38.840 who's at that point in the timeline, personally, and I think this is Corey's belief too, that was

02:14:45.780 Japheth which is why all of our European myths point back to a certain all-father yeah or the

02:14:56.100 all-father is Noah like that's literally true and you know genetics bear not the particular

02:15:03.320 Odin stuff but genetic analysis today bears out the fact that all men share common DNA with a

02:15:11.960 single man and with three specific women, and that everyone alive is descended from one of three

02:15:17.760 women. And that is 100% consistent with the recorded account in the Bible of the flood.

02:15:25.680 So as you described that, I'm not hearing, to me, that doesn't seem parallel anything. I don't,

02:15:31.680 I didn't hear anything in that was, that was pagan apart from like Napoleon worshiping Alexander,

02:15:37.220 which is just like you said like weirdos are going to when they're seeking power you're going 0.63

02:15:42.340 to try to find any advantage you can get which leads to idolatry which is a christian is what

02:15:47.180 that is the first commandment is thou shall have no other gods before me and before means the same

02:15:55.280 thing as in the famous spooner spoonerism you shall have i i see before me tons of soil he got

02:16:01.640 he meant to say i see before me sons of toil he's talking a bunch of farmers and he said i see

02:16:06.500 before me tons of soil. But seeing before him, it meant they're standing right in front of him.

02:16:12.480 That's not what is meant in you shall have no other gods before me. God is omniscient and

02:16:19.640 omnipresent. Therefore, to be before God in that sense is literally everywhere. You can't be

02:16:26.540 anywhere in the universe and creation that is not before God, which means the prohibition,

02:16:34.300 the rule that you shall have no other gods before the God of the Bible means you can't have any

02:16:42.260 period. And so for a Christian, idolatry is anything that violates that. Even if it's second 0.86

02:16:48.680 place, if there's some worship that's directed somewhere else, that is necessarily idolatry.

02:16:54.920 But short of that, storytelling, tradition, I mean, like warriors, every nation has to have

02:17:02.240 warriors or it gets wiped out. Because as you described amply earlier, there's always somebody

02:17:07.420 coming. And sometimes they're not just going to rule over you, as was often the case in other

02:17:12.880 parts of history that I know more about. It's shameful I don't know more about European history

02:17:17.640 as you went through it. But the simple fact is every nation has to have warriors or there's

02:17:24.880 nobody left. So you're absolutely right that our ancestors endured unimaginable hardship for us to

02:17:30.420 be here they were all stone cold killers at some point i mean i i have a number of ancestors i've

02:17:37.060 identified they were here in the 1610s and 1620s who fought and i've i've found i think about a

02:17:44.020 dozen ancestors who were murdered by indians before about 1650 like the warfare was continuous

02:17:50.560 and they're all english i'm not descended from any spaniards who when they came to the new world

02:17:57.100 you know they didn't bring any women with them like is the roman catholics did things very

02:18:01.340 differently than the protestants who came to different parts of north america and that's

02:18:06.960 born long-term political consequences for all of us but i don't i didn't hear anything that you said

02:18:15.360 apart from a couple examples i gave that to me seemed like anything i would think of as paganism

02:18:20.420 it's just those are my people's stories i mean shakespeare the storyteller borrowing from the

02:18:26.640 history of europe stories is that to me is not religious in any sense whatsoever it's just this

02:18:33.340 is our treasure trove of of myth and myth doesn't mean not real myth means it descends back to the

02:18:42.520 before you know we have written records and so it's our story that's been passed down and we

02:18:48.660 all know those stories have permuted over time sometimes deliberately sometimes accidentally

02:18:52.940 Let me complicate it a bit for them because what I've laid out is a very compatibilist view of these various traditions.

02:19:07.320 You know, I could very much imagine someone aesthetically probably in the UK becoming something of like another Arthurian figure who like binds the mythical Celtic British tradition to the Christian faith.

02:19:31.380 and creates a warrior class that sweeps the Gruen gangs before them

02:19:38.200 and restores Britain to an uncorrupted state.

02:19:40.480 I could 100% believe that there is an aesthetically and religiously very compatible movement that works.

02:19:52.980 But I want to complicate a bit because I do think that that would involve significant needle threading,

02:20:00.860 especially varying depending on their tradition so uh for example shakespeare uh if you read

02:20:08.860 read a good number of his plays set in the uh his gothic plays like his plays set

02:20:19.620 set in europe during the christian time but with a mythical elements like uh shakespeare

02:20:28.140 Macbeth and Hamlet are the classic examples.

02:20:31.100 Shakespeare, a lot of the tension of his philosophy and the drama of his plays

02:20:37.400 is actually the profound tension of the classical Hellenic worldviews

02:20:49.420 of how honorable aristocracy are supposed to interact.

02:20:55.200 This mythical kind of Norse-Celtic tradition that you see in the weird sisters appearing, Hamlet's ghostly father, all these very Gothic, moody traditions, and then the Christian tradition at the same time.

02:21:15.460 So, for example, Macbeth, in many traditions, in the classical tradition, Macbeth would be the hero.

02:21:28.420 Macbeth is a great warrior who defeats his enemies and then overthrows a king that he doesn't like and becomes king himself and then fights his wars and then dies gloriously in battle at the end.

02:21:42.340 You know, Macbeth goes to Valhalla in a classic Norse conception of the story, and he'd be a legendary figure in the Hellenic world.

02:21:57.900 Whereas what Shakespeare does throughout the play is he plays with the tension of that, this tragedy and heroic tradition with the Christian world.

02:22:08.860 The entire point of Macbeth is that Macbeth is not a hero. 0.97

02:22:13.500 He's a tyrant.

02:22:14.540 He's a villain. 0.95

02:22:15.620 He's a Shakespearean villain, but he's a villain.

02:22:19.360 So he has all, he has these dramatic soliloquies.

02:22:22.920 He has this character drama where we're brought along on his character drama, but he's, he's evil.

02:22:30.640 He's Macbeth.

02:22:31.580 He, he burns children alive. 1.00

02:22:34.120 You know, he's a usurper and a tyrant.

02:22:36.860 tyrant and much of Shakespeare's story is the tension of these traditions playing out and this

02:22:44.160 gets very dramatic in Hamlet where Hamlet's oh a great amount of Hamlet's hesitation there's a lot

02:22:51.980 of different thematic ties in this but a great amount of Hamlet's hesitation is his religious

02:22:58.360 hedges hesitation uh so i'd argue that hamlet's vision of his father the ghost is um you know

02:23:08.340 it's either like a a classical ghost story or if you want to like be very psychologically

02:23:16.340 reductionist which the text of the play doesn't support this other people see see the us but if

02:23:21.400 you want to be psychologically reductionist one could argue that it's hamlet's subconscious that

02:23:26.420 Hamlet's sub-linguistic mind has already pieced together from evidence

02:23:33.600 what actually happened, that he knows his uncle, he knows his mother,

02:23:36.880 he's already pieced together that his uncle murdered his father

02:23:40.540 and what has gone on, but he can't express that to himself,

02:23:44.680 and so his mind is creating a vision to express it.

02:23:48.660 Yet Hamlet is consumed by religious doubt throughout the play Hamlet

02:23:53.560 that uh that he wonders well might this not be a a demon said and sent in the guise of my father

02:24:03.080 is this not not a vision of the devil devil possibly and this consumes him with doubt and

02:24:10.340 he has to of course famously he goes through the plays the thing to catch the conscience of the

02:24:15.180 king he does he does this elaborate theatrical thing to catch him out and maybe that's psychological

02:24:19.660 goes well he he knows it and this has created the vision but he still has the doubt so he needs

02:24:24.360 that to play off but the the religious tension within hamlet uh uh is still very tense uh

02:24:34.720 hamlet hesitates to kill claudius when he has them like ambushed dead to right

02:24:40.580 in a confessional uh not because uh you know you wouldn't kill a man who's praying in a

02:24:48.380 confessional but because but because claudius has confessed uh hamlet worries that would this not

02:24:56.320 send him to heaven because he's confessed all the sins you know this is the exact words hamlet uses

02:25:02.480 is are uh why this is higher in salary that he murders my father and i compensate him for it by

02:25:11.040 sending him to heaven, and he decides not to kill Claudius in the confessional.

02:25:17.900 Shakespeare, of course, complicates this as well, because Shakespeare is a genius at everything.

02:25:22.060 And he has Claudius, at the same time, he's confessing to murdering Hanwell's father,

02:25:29.540 but says, it doesn't matter that I confess, because I'm not giving up the crown.

02:25:33.420 You know, I'm confessing my sin, but I'm not returning the stolen good.

02:25:36.880 These are but empty words that can do nothing for my soul.

02:25:39.620 when in the same scene hamlet is saying well he'd go to heaven if i killed him because now all the

02:25:45.240 sins are off official and shakespeare cretes is again one of the top one of the greatest writers

02:25:53.260 in human history but uh this this tension uh is there is a compatible vision that would perhaps

02:26:06.980 perhaps work, but it's not at all guaranteed that it would work with all people or in all

02:26:13.740 traditions, or that it would be easy to make it work. So one of the examples that I've

02:26:21.320 written about extensively is the ancient Norse human sacrifice rituals. Have you ever heard

02:26:29.160 of this? I've heard a bit about the blood eagle stuff, but I don't know to what extent any of

02:26:39.400 that's even true. So I would say I'm largely agree. So we have an account by Ibn Favlan,

02:26:47.300 who was an Islamic scholar who lived amongst the Rus Vikings in the 9th century, I would say. So

02:26:57.980 So in and around Kiev, he lived with a group of Russ Vikings. 0.87

02:27:04.680 And this is the only account of one of the human sacrifice rituals we have with the Russ Vikings. 0.79

02:27:12.880 In the 9th and 8th century, slavery was practiced by everyone in the Black Sea region. 0.92

02:27:22.940 Famously, Christians couldn't slave Muslims and Muslims couldn't slave Christians.

02:27:27.600 where you can enslave someone of your own religion.

02:27:30.680 And there's lots of stories about, 0.51

02:27:32.300 well, this is why the Khazars chose to convert to Judaism, 0.99

02:27:38.380 allegedly, because that would allow them to enslave everyone 0.93

02:27:42.100 and they could have, like, an advanced market that way. 0.99

02:27:46.340 But the Rus Vikings, even Fadlin, this Islamic trader

02:27:52.020 who is establishing a relationship with the pagans,

02:27:54.420 uh he recounts one of their human sacrifice rituals and the ritual largely entailed

02:28:02.980 uh one it when one of every time one of their great lords died or one of their petty lords

02:28:09.280 uh the slave women would be asked which of you will die with your lord and once one of the girls

02:28:18.660 had volunteered it they had to volunteer in a presumably there were varying levels of pressure

02:28:24.020 they could apply to get a volunteer but once one of the girls had volunteered it couldn't be taken

02:28:29.380 back when she said i uh you were in and uh at that point uh this is where we know even phelan

02:28:37.880 uh isn't making this up because some of the details are like religiously specific in ways

02:28:42.780 that he wouldn't know but for nine days and nine nights uh the volunteer girl or girls if there

02:28:49.480 were multiple volunteers were drowned in alcohol and drugs and uh had sex with the entire like 0.90

02:28:56.180 male cohort of the of the tribe like they had a nine-day orgy and and the other girls would wait 0.86

02:29:04.120 on them and then at the end of this uh there'd be some cumulative stuff like they'd be queen for

02:29:11.960 nine days and then at the end of it uh they take them into a tent they play the drums very loudly

02:29:19.240 and they'd sacrifice the girls after they said several significant religious phrases

02:29:27.640 and they played the drums loudly so that the girls outside wouldn't hear them scream

02:29:33.000 so that they wouldn't be dissuaded from volunteering themselves later.

02:29:40.100 And Eamon Fagelin goes through this entire ritual

02:29:43.460 And what I did in one of my pieces, Feral Aryan Femininity, was I contrasted this ritual with what we know of Germanic women in the ancient world.

02:29:57.900 So that example I gave of the migratory warfare that the Germanics and the Vikings participated in, where women would have to stand in line threatening to bash their own children's brains out and threatening to run through their own husbands with spears and kill themselves before being taken as slaves.

02:30:20.820 what the human sacrifice rituals that

02:30:25.900 Eben Fadlin recounts and presumably go back

02:30:28.960 go back all the way, judging by the behavior

02:30:33.840 and the unique, like, warlike character of 0.96

02:30:37.200 German women in the ancient world. This is the only female unit in the Rome 0.81

02:30:41.960 Total War video game, the screeching women of Germania. 0.99

02:30:46.880 What we can piece together is that what these 0.97

02:30:49.820 sacrifice rituals were doing was they were selectively killing off women who would slave

02:30:57.060 women who would choose to be captives who would accept humiliations or who had uh in previous

02:31:05.140 generations of um basically all human civilization human uh civilizations and all intelligent races 0.62

02:31:13.160 go through a bottleneck immediately after the invention of warfare,

02:31:17.280 where there's a bottleneck where you have, like,

02:31:22.080 one male ancestor for every 17 female ancestors.

02:31:26.920 Because what happens is, in the warfare,

02:31:30.200 as soon as it's invented and as soon as it's perfected, 0.94

02:31:33.160 the natural institution that develops is extreme polygamy, 0.88

02:31:37.140 where the male warriors just kill off dozens, hundreds of other males,

02:31:41.880 and then keep all the females as their own as their property and uh you can actually see this

02:31:48.040 uh in south america uh when cortez comes over the aztecs have exactly this level of development

02:31:54.680 that uh that the aztec warriors declare war on their helot population every year and you know

02:32:03.180 killed x number of males every year well why are you killing so many males every year well because 0.67

02:32:07.500 you have a polygamist pop. You have these polygamist institutions, and the average Aztec 0.83

02:32:12.800 warrior has eight wives. The average Aztec lord has 30 wives. An Aztec king might have hundreds 0.64

02:32:19.120 or thousands of wives. And so why are you waging war on your helots every year? Well, because you 0.66

02:32:26.200 need a sink for all these excess males that you're producing. And if you aren't killing them, 0.99

02:32:32.400 eventually they're going to organize a rebellion and kill you. But so this is a bottleneck that 0.99

02:32:37.380 almost all human civilizations go through you can see uh the assyrians uh they have these violent 1.00

02:32:43.920 reliefs of them this artwork of the assyrians in like 800 900 bc maybe a bit before uh killing off 0.99

02:32:53.340 all their rivals and and like these reliefs of just pure gore they're all these accounts of like 0.78

02:32:59.340 an assyrian satrap having to come in and like having to walk by the heads of their like

02:33:06.340 male relatives that had been killed before and that they'd have these elaborate humiliation 0.79

02:33:12.040 rituals to keep people afraid and keep them from rebelling. Basically, every people in history goes

02:33:17.260 through something relatively similar to this because as soon as you invent war, this is the 0.72

02:33:21.460 natural competitive advantage is that, okay, you wipe out the other males and you take as many wives

02:33:28.660 as you can. But the effect this has on women is that basically all women everywhere in the world 0.85

02:33:36.320 have an intense, like, 0.97

02:33:39.440 sadomasochistic streak to them. 0.99

02:33:44.980 Stockholm Syndrome is entirely a female trait. 0.71

02:33:48.160 Like, men do not develop Stockholm Syndrome,

02:33:50.800 with a very rare exception.

02:33:54.100 Yet women develop Stockholm Syndrome consistently, 0.91

02:33:57.500 and indeed, most female fairy tales

02:33:59.660 revolve around Stockholm Syndrome, 0.97

02:34:01.400 Beauty and the Beast, etc.,

02:34:03.140 that this is, like, 1.00

02:34:04.040 such a vile part of the female 1.00

02:34:06.180 experience, this 1.00

02:34:07.000 masochistic

02:34:09.620 desire, you know,

02:34:12.100 the desire to be

02:34:14.120 captured and taken away forcefully 0.98

02:34:15.980 by a sexy billionaire vampire 0.86

02:34:18.200 or 0.90

02:34:19.620 a

02:34:20.440 pirate captain or

02:34:23.600 basically an enemy

02:34:25.200 in labor 1.00

02:34:27.980 that all women have been 0.99

02:34:29.920 selected to 0.96

02:34:31.400 accept sexual slavery. It's 0.80

02:34:34.040 But it's just to, like, rebelling it and not abusing.

02:34:38.220 So what the ancient Germans were doing, what the rest of us,

02:34:45.400 what all the UN tribes here who are practicing this weird reverse sacrifice ritual 0.81

02:34:52.220 where they are sacrificing women, and not just women like the good slaves,

02:34:57.480 you know, the women who would volunteer to take part in an orgy before being sacrificed 0.94

02:35:02.780 just because they like the idea of an orgy that much, 1.00

02:35:05.440 you know, usually that's kind of its desirable trade in the sex slave, 0.99

02:35:10.500 is they were pruning out the sadomasochistic streaks from the women, 0.96

02:35:16.900 that if you kept this up for enough generations, 0.92

02:35:20.840 that your slaves and your lower class women were all invited to volunteer 0.99

02:35:26.280 for a nine-day orgy and being queen for a week 0.95

02:35:30.400 uh before being sacrificed what you did was you selected for women who were naturally adverse to

02:35:38.520 being passed around and naturally adverse to wanting to be captured by a group of men or

02:35:46.020 or women who like uh imagine if if like a lord had three slaves and they were three sisters

02:35:54.620 right and you know you could justify it to yourself well i could volunteer to be sacrificed

02:36:01.160 this way and then i'd save my two sisters well who would never volunteer for for that someone

02:36:07.980 who would rather like watch their family members die than suffer in dignity themselves well that's 1.00

02:36:15.600 exactly the trait that the germans wanted that's what what they wanted their women who'd stand in 1.00

02:36:20.380 that back line yelling out their men that they'd sooner die than be a slave that they'd sooner

02:36:25.120 bash out their own baby's brains than let them fall to the romans and and we can see this like 0.94

02:36:33.340 selection for this profoundly unnatural behavior that the germans were able to achieve in uh 0.87

02:36:39.860 their women on the march in the books bonderum that they're able to select for these large 0.96

02:36:44.500 populations of women who would murder their own children and commit suicide sooner than 0.96

02:36:49.620 be enslaved which is like not something that can be naturally selected for that's not a trait that

02:36:56.160 like nature ever selects for that has to be artificially selected and and what the russ 0.99

02:37:04.320 vikings and the germans were able to do throughout all these human sacrifice rituals was create 0.96

02:37:08.380 you know frigid german women you create the types of uh types of very strict frigid frigid germanic 0.99

02:37:17.460 women that like are of stereotype that this idea of like the mannish german woman who 1.00

02:37:24.940 who like even american fiction in like the 40s and 50s and 60s was like depicting as like

02:37:34.940 the german women behave like men men are like uh you know various very smut from the 70s 0.51

02:37:44.740 depicted in like ilse schiwal from the ss this idea that german women were like naturally warlike 0.84

02:37:50.340 or naturally uh mannish in these ways or naturally like very strict and frigid that all this was

02:37:58.040 that a lot most of these traits like the this idea of the valkyrie are like the warrior women

02:38:04.700 are the or the jonah bark these were artificially selected traits that uh would not have existed

02:38:11.940 without like these elaborate sacrifice rituals and arguably um i'd argue that a big part of the

02:38:19.620 reason that um that northern europeans are uniquely horrified by uh by child predation

02:38:29.260 and like uh like the epstein revelations and and like child sexual abuse is also because of this

02:38:37.680 because there's this very Faustian kind of character in the European mind 0.57

02:38:47.880 and especially the European sexual mind

02:38:50.740 that believes very strongly in innocence

02:38:54.420 and very strongly that it should only be removed

02:38:59.380 via the consent of someone of a certain age.

02:39:03.580 so uh so like you get these bizarre like like mores that only exist in northern europe where

02:39:11.840 that like for example don't exist in islam the idea of like a nine-year-old being like uh

02:39:18.820 wed or like sent to be a sex slave of like a powerful wealthy wealthy man like that's normal 0.51

02:39:28.120 in Islam. You know, Muhammad had a nine-year-old life. Muhammad had a six-year-old wife. Most of 1.00

02:39:34.600 the world does not have this, like, intense sexual moral aversion to this, even most of the Abrahamic

02:39:42.560 world. And the reason, I'd argue, Europe has this aversion is because European sexual morality

02:39:50.420 is entirely driven by like these tricky faustian rituals around around consent and the individual 1.00

02:39:58.940 choices of women women specifically to create this like warlike trade and of course tribes 0.99

02:40:04.960 that didn't do this uh their rear line wasn't effective and they weren't able to enforce

02:40:10.580 discipline and those tribes died out if you stopped doing this your tribe would die within a

02:40:14.800 future generations that uh this aggressive selection pressure has really produced a lot of

02:40:23.920 northern european sexual mores mores and i'd argue this also explains some of the really weird

02:40:32.020 sexual more so like so you obviously you know the europeans are profoundly adverse to anything

02:40:40.760 epstein was doing you know nine and eleven year olds being sold into sexual slavery tricked into 0.75

02:40:45.560 sexual slavery and yet uh northern europeans are not really are shockingly non-adverse

02:40:56.060 to stuff like only fans where like a girl turns 18 and immediately uh 0.97

02:41:02.300 and immediately decides oh she's going to be a a public whore and like on her 18th birthday show 1.00

02:41:11.860 her butthole to the world world and sell naked pictures of herself to indians on her 18th birthday 1.00

02:41:18.860 you know islam has no problem with with nine-year-old girls being wet off or sold off to 1.00

02:41:26.620 wealthy men, but they'd have a profound aversion to a middle-class or higher status woman doing 1.00

02:41:36.200 that on her 18th or 19th birthday. You know, they'd need to do something about that. The 0.98

02:41:43.440 Islamic mind demands a reprisal for that. We know endless examples of honor killings 1.00

02:41:49.860 relate to that and and i argue that all of all these unique ideas that northern europeans

02:41:59.780 specifically anglos and and germanics and the and the dutch and the scandinavians have specifically

02:42:06.480 around around the innocence of children uh the interesting faustian character of like sex as

02:42:14.340 soon as you are of age, all this is derived out of these unique sacrifice rituals and

02:42:23.440 these unique breeding conditions that existed distinctly in Northern Europe and that a lot

02:42:30.760 of our institutions come out of this.

02:42:32.580 So at the same time, like Northern Europe was doing this, at the same time, you know,

02:42:40.160 Rome had a centralized government, and yet Northern Europe arguably didn't have centralized

02:42:45.740 governments until like the 19th century. Germany didn't have a centralized state until the 1870s.

02:42:52.300 You know, you still had minor kingdoms with their own militaries until like 1869. You know,

02:43:00.740 you could still be a proud warrior of Hesse or Saxony or one of these minor German kingdoms.

02:43:08.180 You could still, you know, Luxembourg is the last one of these that's still there. You can still be a soldier of Luxembourg, or a knight of Luxembourg, that how did this decentralized conglomeration of, like, these people who had this profound independence of regulation, this profound, like, tribal, independent mindset,

02:43:37.260 this very free mindset that we see echo in the like american frontier and the answer is all this

02:43:45.160 was heavily selected for by these conditions and these very conscious sacrifice rituals

02:43:53.280 and that it's not obvious these can be maintained without something equivalent or or something also

02:44:02.880 selecting for it that these traits are naturally going to disappear or get bred out without

02:44:08.540 something it might be probably it could be the return of the sacrifice rituals it could be

02:44:15.440 war could be any number of like various faustine institutions it could gambling uh but there was

02:44:26.180 this intense you said yourself that the german you said yourself with the german women are icy

02:44:31.360 to this day. When was the last German woman sacrificed like this? I mean, I don't think 0.77

02:44:37.540 your theory actually, the theory doesn't work with the facts. I mean, it's been, what, a thousand

02:44:42.040 years? Oh, I'd argue the last German woman sacrificed like this was in the 1600s, actually,

02:44:51.000 because if you look... I mean, I don't care about, I don't care about one. You're talking about 1.00

02:44:54.460 changing the genetics of the entire population. I have a very cute answer to this. Yeah, let me

02:45:01.160 If you look at German traditions and religious human sacrifice rituals, there are widespread human sacrifices in Germany, specifically Northern Europe more widely, but Germany specifically in the 1500s and 1600s.

02:45:20.460 and they're called witch burnings and that these are very unique in the entire Christian tradition.

02:45:31.500 Almost the vast majority of Christian churches in history have not practiced witch burnings.

02:45:37.240 They are very unique to Northern Europe and they were very uniquely targeting women. 0.92

02:45:45.240 And my argument would be that if you look at, like, the selection pressure of witch burnings in other institutions like this and who is being selected out and why, as soon as Northern Europeans, like Germans particularly, as soon as they get out from under the Catholic Church, all of a sudden they want to burn women again. 0.62

02:46:06.240 I'd argue that this is, like, a profound cultural instinct that they have. 0.75

02:46:14.000 Well, great. Then there's no need for paganism whatsoever. I'm all for burning witches.

02:46:18.240 But if your goal is eugenics, I don't think nearly enough were killed. But again, we're 0.94

02:46:25.840 to the point where I don't—that was literally Christianity being enforced. I mean, the Bible

02:46:31.520 says to kill witches. I don't care how it's done. Like, do whatever. Heavy rocks, bogs, who cares, 0.99

02:46:37.520 as long as they're dead so i totally get the the evo psych correlation between these uppity chicks 1.00

02:46:44.540 are doing stuff that's bad for society so we kill them but if that's done in a christian society 1.00

02:46:51.520 then again you you don't need any of the sacrificial stuff in a pagan context if you're 0.97

02:46:57.680 punishing crimes against god and it achieves the same genetic benefits assuming they like

02:47:04.740 i totally buy that those effects can occur over time but i again i don't i don't see any

02:47:11.380 incompatibility with christianity christianity or any need for any competing religion to replace it

02:47:18.260 just to get rid of witches that would be a good argue for argument for like a new compatibilist

02:47:29.860 tradition or

02:47:31.560 a new interpretation

02:47:34.540 that is

02:47:35.220 that continues that

02:47:38.320 and also revives

02:47:39.620 and also revives the warrior

02:47:42.400 culture of Europe and also

02:47:43.840 revives this

02:47:45.560 because what

02:47:48.080 what's largely needed

02:47:50.420 and this like ties

02:47:52.500 into the origin of

02:47:54.000 paganism so like

02:47:55.620 so like paganism you see

02:47:58.420 crop up as a

02:48:00.640 movement or... Could you define it for me?

02:48:02.780 Pardon?

02:48:03.940 Could you define paganism for me?

02:48:09.840 Largely

02:48:10.520 not, because paganism

02:48:11.800 itself is an umbrella term.

02:48:14.880 Like, I'd say

02:48:16.320 there's the Hellenic Roman tradition

02:48:18.320 and then there's the Norse tradition

02:48:20.520 and then there's like a

02:48:21.820 set of

02:48:23.160 different traditions throughout Europe.

02:48:26.480 So like there's a Celtic tradition.

02:48:27.740 Well, that's not my question.

02:48:29.460 That's not my question.

02:48:30.700 And I'm not being combative.

02:48:32.120 I'm just trying to understand better.

02:48:34.060 If you're trying to achieve a goal and you believe that paganism in replacement of Christianity gives you certain benefits, what does paganism look like that gives you these upsides?

02:48:45.900 Like, what are the rules?

02:48:48.040 Because just like warrior tradition, that's universal.

02:48:51.940 And you said yourself, every culture has had an emergent warrior class.

02:48:57.040 so and most of them weren't pagan by your actually um the way you're talking about it

02:49:02.080 so the actual warrior warrior class that exist that we're describing uh so like uh

02:49:11.520 analogous to the heroes bench in greece uh the the vikings the knights of medieval europe

02:49:20.280 europe uh arguably the american cowboys like kind of kind of fit this the american front

02:49:25.860 frontiersmen uh and the samurai are the big example um outside of europe

02:49:33.420 uh this the heroic warrior class this idea of a um class of warriors who will participate in

02:49:44.780 duels of honor who will uh who will maintain this like high standards of arms who will have

02:49:53.180 this intense pride in themselves and their own specific privileges and liberties. 0.65

02:50:03.280 The gentry of the American Revolution are a very class example of this. We have the American 0.80

02:50:10.420 founders, several of them died in duels. They had this intense idea of personal honor. They

02:50:16.140 they were willing to die over matters of honor. Of course, the famous lines about,

02:50:23.540 I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country at this

02:50:26.340 intent obsession with glory. It's a very, very rare trait, actually, in world cultures. India

02:50:37.240 never really had a class like this. China, to the extent they ever did, it was gone by like the

02:50:45.160 the first century A.D. there wasn't there just wasn't this warrior class of like

02:50:52.180 of like highly independent property holders who also like held to this intense sense of honor

02:51:02.820 even in poverty so like there are lots of stories of like poor broke samurai or poor broke Arthurian

02:51:10.420 knights or poor broke uh vikings or heavily impoverished uh grecian warriors that all this

02:51:18.860 requires an intense cultivation a very deliberate cultivation of this idea of honor and a very

02:51:26.540 deliberate uh cultivation of these uh of these youthful boy like boys virtues

02:51:36.500 If you can remember when you were a kid and playing with sticks and stuff, like you had this intent, if you were of the right ethnicities, you had this intense desire to become part of a warrior class like this.

02:51:51.860 and were very disappointed when there were no knights to take you

02:51:58.620 or there were no Viking raids to go on

02:52:01.180 or there was no dojo where you could learn the art of dim muck.

02:52:07.420 But this intense desire in a certain category of white men,

02:52:13.020 and it has to be very specifically culturally cultivated.

02:52:17.000 And so traditionally, like, the goal of pagan revival movements, beyond just, like, we're going to invest heavily in, like, studying this culture, is a historical exercise, which is always, like, oddly suppressed.

02:52:38.140 um like the u.s government and various cultural institutions notably uh hollywood very much likes

02:52:46.420 to suppress uh these these looking backs on these cultures because then all of a sudden you could

02:52:52.140 hold yourself to those standards uh the same reason there are shockingly few movies about uh

02:52:58.320 the american revolutionary period in spite of hollywood being in america is because they don't

02:53:03.500 want you looking at these periods but uh but the act of creating this culture and

02:53:10.380 and lionizing these these values and creating an internal coherence an internal desire

02:53:20.320 to research uh these histories because it's not just

02:53:24.820 living these virtues, it's being willing to invest intensively in studying history,

02:53:36.060 studying military history, studying the history of, I have a book club right now that's kind of

02:53:42.800 the closest thing I have to a church, but we've been reading through Caesar's Gallic Wars,

02:53:49.420 the Peloponnesian Wars, all these classical texts of the European tradition, and for reading

02:53:58.000 Carlisle's On Hero Worship next month, join the Anarchanoncom Book Club. DM me if you don't have

02:54:07.080 access to the Discord, sir. But one of the big takeaways from this book club has been just how

02:54:17.140 much work actually goes into investing in understanding these historical traditions,

02:54:23.740 understanding all these deep wars that somehow everyone you read about in history knows about

02:54:32.100 these wars. The entire warrior class of Europe had all read the Peloponnesian War, had all

02:54:38.600 dived through Caesar's Gallic Wars, or the officers of British Empire had all read extensively

02:54:45.920 on Napoleon's

02:54:48.140 campaigns, but

02:54:49.400 the intense amount

02:54:52.040 of work and study

02:54:54.340 and

02:54:54.920 I'm looking for a religious

02:54:58.240 term, but it is

02:54:59.540 basically religious study

02:55:02.220 to try and tear through

02:55:04.160 all these...

02:55:04.960 Yes, exactly.

02:55:07.460 It is religious study

02:55:09.580 in large extent to tear through all these 0.81

02:55:12.080 histories and be like, no, I am going to

02:55:13.980 understand 0.63

02:55:14.840 stand Cleon's argument for why the war against the Pelpenesians must continue. I am going to 0.99

02:55:24.000 understand saying this. I'm going to understand Caesar's conquest and the arguments for Caesar's

02:55:31.120 divinity. I'm going to understand Alexander. This is an intensely religious and intense

02:55:40.960 thing to study and as we saw from napoleon like basically you have to worship it in some way

02:55:51.220 shape or form uh napoleon almost converted to islam to try and imitate alexander's uh accepting

02:55:59.480 of um divinity from from the pharaohs and his egyptian campaign he's willing to

02:56:06.720 to abandon christianity for islam if that would allow him to better imitate

02:56:12.400 alex alexander's conquest of egypt uh this intense study this intense

02:56:19.840 fortunately napoleon did not do that do that the imams wouldn't go for it they wouldn't bow down

02:56:26.240 to him uh but this intense this intense study is highly religious in nature and this is basically 0.97

02:56:36.200 the only way you're going to get a warrior class to revive the West, I'd argue. That you need lots

02:56:46.800 of people reading these ancient war texts and working their damnedest to become the kinds of

02:56:55.380 people who could revive this warrior class, who could conquer the West again, not by a plain

02:57:05.140 democracy, but actually retaking the lost nations of our decaying age and reforging

02:57:14.800 it into something that can survive the next thousand years.

02:57:20.340 And I don't think this is necessarily adversarial, like I've said.

02:57:27.780 I think that there are compatibilist visions of this, very much like the knightly orders of the crusade or like King Arthur and his knights that could be Christian or Christian in name or very Christian themselves.

02:57:50.780 themselves but that uh this would be a very a very religious quest in a lot of ways and it would

02:57:59.840 involve reconceptualizing most of our our morality and most of our our political and sexual

02:58:07.320 Paul takes it it would involve especially for the people who had become this new warrior Lee

02:58:13.200 reconceptualizing themselves

02:58:15.440 and that ultimately

02:58:18.520 you know they're about

02:58:21.020 they're about five or so different

02:58:24.800 like religious identity visions

02:58:28.520 that I could see

02:58:29.580 immediately like going for this

02:58:33.480 and some of them are about the Christian

02:58:35.240 some of them are about the pagan

02:58:37.700 but it is fundamentally a

02:58:40.920 a religious a religious personal spiritual like warrior quests not unlike uh the stories of

02:58:51.860 an anime of like young men going to a ma a monastery and studying war and discovering

02:59:00.380 entire new spiritual martial martial tradition that except you have to develop it yourself

02:59:06.420 and

02:59:07.780 and to be

02:59:10.240 frank I don't

02:59:11.220 well I think there almost certainly will be 1.00

02:59:14.080 some of these that are aboutly Christian

02:59:16.140 I don't think

02:59:16.940 I don't think all of them at work will be

02:59:20.180 Christian I think a lot of parts

02:59:22.100 of the west

02:59:22.680 a Christian tradition 0.98

02:59:26.120 probably wouldn't work 1.00

02:59:27.280 so like I could see

02:59:29.260 in England

02:59:31.740 or in America the 0.63

02:59:33.940 Christian

02:59:36.240 faith being core to, uh, this, this revivalist, uh, kind of warrior movement, uh, working quite

02:59:45.140 well. There's a lot of countries in West where I could see, where I couldn't really see it being

02:59:49.620 Christian nature, where, uh, the Scandinavian countries specifically, uh, probably Canada,

02:59:58.660 canada and uh and uh central europe i i just couldn't imagine it having much of a christian

03:00:07.520 character and like actually taking it off taking off which like i'm not going to say

03:00:12.760 and as a canadian myself i'm not going to say well those those regions are doomed because they

03:00:20.040 aren't going to adopt like the correct religious framing i'm like no there's a structural version

03:00:24.100 of this that would work in those countries and those are almost certainly going to be

03:00:29.380 be pagan revivalist in character uh that the scandinavian countries are just not going to

03:00:36.820 have a christian revival of course corresponding with this warrior revival and probably

03:00:41.660 the warrior viral especially in scandinavia is going to be be incredibly norse pagan in character

03:00:48.800 and is going to characterize most of what they're fighting against

03:00:54.780 as a very Christian character and very alien to the Scandinavian character

03:01:00.780 and very Jewish specifically.

03:01:04.140 And I'm very aware that all those arguments can be scrupled with Chadath

03:01:10.040 and some of it might be very unfair,

03:01:13.160 but that's ultimately what will be effective in Scandinavia.

03:01:17.300 And I'm not going to say, well, because they're, and I, I'd very much, I'd very much resent

03:01:25.200 anyone saying, well, they don't get to save themselves because they aren't going to have

03:01:28.540 the right religious commitments when they do.

03:01:36.040 You began that by rattling off like half a dozen different countries that have the specific

03:01:41.280 heroic warrior tradition that you're talking about here.

03:01:47.300 And earlier, you said that Woodrow Wilson killed it, along with the League of Nations, in the previous century.

03:01:57.400 And you rattled off the list of the Naval War College and West Point's reading list. 0.99

03:02:05.140 And again, I don't understand why I need to renounce Christ and say that Caesar is God in order to have guys who can kick ass. 0.90

03:02:15.880 none of it follows i i didn't hear any logical progression in any of that and i again i don't 0.96

03:02:23.980 mean to be offensive or mean or anything like i i'm a pretty smart guy and i'm not seeing any of

03:02:28.300 it if i put these things on a board i don't need to be a christian to see that you don't get from

03:02:33.080 a to b with with that we had those things 150 years ago which is the entire point of stone choir

03:02:41.020 The Christianity that we had ruled Europe.

03:02:44.000 We won wars against aliens.

03:02:47.440 We did everything that we needed to do as a civilization. 1.00

03:02:50.540 The one thing that we failed to do was to get rid of all the Jews 1.00

03:02:54.120 who were funding the wars, who were in the courts, who were poisoning people. 1.00

03:02:59.140 We tolerated them for a thousand years.

03:03:01.640 And we see European history without looking at who was behind those things.

03:03:07.560 And it's inextricable.

03:03:08.520 i couldn't possibly begin to guess you can't you you couldn't tease through history well

03:03:13.400 you got to go to this court at this time and see who this was whispering because it's all done in

03:03:17.460 the dark what we don't have is an example of european history that was entirely christian

03:03:23.180 without the influence of the very people who are trying to destroy us so you know woodrow 0.92

03:03:30.020 well woodrow Wilson is a bastard and yeah like i i often link the picture of the like 0.51

03:03:35.980 eight or nine kings of Europe that got together for, I think, what, Edward VIII's funeral in like 0.98

03:03:42.080 1913. And I point to that as a specific example of World War I was fought to prevent this picture

03:03:49.580 from ever happening again, because almost all of them were related, and they were all kings.

03:03:54.720 And that's what ended with World War I. That's absolutely true, something you said earlier.

03:03:58.820 And that's despicable. And whether or not we restore monarchy, I don't care. We can unwind

03:04:04.860 what has been done culturally, civilizationally, and to our warriors. Like there are a lot of guys,

03:04:11.440 and like I said earlier, paganism was authorized by the Pentagon as one of the permissible

03:04:15.920 official religions, and a lot of guys leaned into it because I'm sure that their chaplains 0.95

03:04:21.220 were useless. The LCMS sends a disproportionate number of chaplains into the military,

03:04:26.820 and I'm positive that by and large they are gutless. They're universalist because they have

03:04:32.080 to be. They can't be pro-Christ in an environment where they have to preach to everybody. And so I

03:04:38.980 can understand that someone who's in the Army, Navy, the Marines, who's serious about his

03:04:45.380 discipline, about the discipline of war, of killing and destroying professionally, because

03:04:50.980 it is his vocation, which incidentally is a godly vocation. I can understand him being disgusted.

03:04:57.040 But what I don't understand and don't think follows at all is that we have to remove and 0.72

03:05:01.080 unwind Christianity to fix West Point. It's just not there. I understand that there are cultural 0.86

03:05:08.540 differences in the development of warriors, but you're distinguishing, you're setting aside this

03:05:14.920 warrior class as a very particular thing you have in mind when that necessarily ignores all the

03:05:21.020 other ways that other cultures have warriors. The Essex had warriors with eight wives or 30 or 100,

03:05:26.560 depending on how senior they were they were fighters and they were decent in their day at

03:05:31.280 least against their neighbors so it seems like a texas sharpshooter situation to take a very

03:05:37.500 narrowly crafted western european idea of this is the way i think wars have been fought successfully

03:05:43.880 in the past strip it from its christian context and say we have to get rid of christianity because

03:05:49.300 that's the only way to have what woodrow rolson took from us so again i'm not trying to pick on

03:05:54.740 or anything like i i literally don't see the argument it doesn't it doesn't add up to me at

03:05:59.080 all so so in the american context i probably don't think it's necessary like uh in america

03:06:09.080 i could see like there's probably there's probably some regions and subcultures where

03:06:13.680 where uh we had cowboys i mean you rattled off you gave a number of examples like we

03:06:21.600 we literally did this we just did this two centuries ago so no it's not a hypothetical

03:06:28.040 it's literally our history no the question is can you get there from from here so for example

03:06:33.320 we did this two centuries ago but the institutions that made the war the war class that made this uh

03:06:41.280 kind of homeric culture had already been existing up to that point like what i'd be

03:06:48.400 like uh what you're doing is you're looking at at a building that's tumbled out i'm saying 0.66

03:06:55.900 saying oh some of these buildings are tumbled down you're going to have to dig into the foundation

03:07:00.600 to to rebuild them you're going to have to lay down a new foundation you're saying well why do

03:07:06.860 we have to dig into the foundation of these ones they're standing perfectly fine fine just two

03:07:13.500 century trees ago yeah but there's no way to i'd argue there's very little way to fix to fix say

03:07:23.000 scandinavia or or germany or canada or many of these these places that i'm gonna tell you right

03:07:32.900 now if you are in canada there is basically no like church christian church of any tradition

03:07:41.200 that is at all compatible with what I'd consider virtue.

03:07:46.840 Like the most virtuous church—

03:07:48.500 I completely agree.

03:07:49.300 I 100% agree. 1.00

03:07:51.920 That's why we started Stone Choir, because they're all faggots. 1.00

03:07:55.100 That doesn't mean Christianity is weak and gay and wrong. 1.00

03:07:58.120 I mean, that's the entire discussion here. 0.96

03:08:01.200 Christianity did not make people weak.

03:08:03.400 Christianity was one of the institutions, along with politics, along with education,

03:08:07.920 along with, you know, developing a warrior spirit as a subset. And it's sort of culturally

03:08:14.480 independent from politics, but it feeds into it. Those are institutions. And it's a really

03:08:19.140 important word because it begs the question, who instituted it and for what purpose? And when we

03:08:25.780 talk about institutions, specifically when they've been hollowed out and destroyed over decades or

03:08:30.640 centuries, there's the habit, and it's pervasive on the right, where guys will look at this thing

03:08:37.380 and say, this is shitty and awful, and I reject it because, look, it's not working. This institution 0.81

03:08:42.880 is bad. We need a different institution in its place, when the reality is that the people who

03:08:49.000 instituted it did not authorize a single thing that it's doing, and it is serving the exact

03:08:54.300 opposite purpose of that for which it had been instituted. The men who created the institutions

03:08:59.740 would be the first ones to burn them down and replace them as they stand today. It's not a

03:09:05.800 problem with the military. It's not a problem with education. It's not a problem with Christianity.

03:09:11.320 Now, imagine if we were talking about education instead of religion here, because that's really

03:09:15.540 kind of fundamentally the space that we're debating politely and fruitfully. But we're

03:09:23.580 talking about religion as it feeds into a culture. If we were talking about education instead,

03:09:29.160 would you say that we have to nullify all education like schools are done because look

03:09:36.040 what schools are doing when the reality is that rainbow flags exist in schools churches politics

03:09:42.980 even in the military the same attack i would actually say that about schools probably because

03:09:50.580 quite frankly there's no there's no vehicle to to reform them again you start off uh saying that

03:09:58.360 we have about two generations uh if that before like uh the the white population of the west 0.97

03:10:08.980 hits a critical point and we're done and i'd argue it's that's very accurate and it's kind of worse

03:10:17.460 than that because a lot of the threshold are earlier so like probably by 2031 basically there's

03:10:24.620 never going to be a democratic reform. I've basically given up on the idea that democracy

03:10:30.580 can fix what's wrong with the West, that there can be any... I can agree completely.

03:10:35.760 Yes. And there are lots of thresholds like this where once you hit this point, it's like,

03:10:41.480 okay, we aren't talking about re-migration at that point. It's just going to be a hot ethnic 1.00

03:10:44.840 civil war. You know, you can debate when the year is going to be, but it's like, no, they aren't

03:10:50.320 leaving our land they're going in it or we're going in it that there is a threshold point

03:10:55.840 where it's just like no there isn't a peaceful outcome to it just as there's a threshold point 0.91

03:11:00.320 where there's not going to be a democratic outcome to it so the the issue with religion is

03:11:08.120 you know religion can be debated for 500 years you know process of catholics have been going

03:11:14.700 at it for 500 years and haven't resolved it. Pagans and Christians can go at it for 2,000

03:11:23.140 years and will probably go at it for 2,000 more. The issue is, well, you need this revival of this 0.98

03:11:30.840 class in order to retake the lesson. You need it to happen within a timeline. You need it to

03:11:38.140 happen within this two-generation span and probably sooner than that because the threshold

03:11:44.660 are getting more brutal as time goes on.

03:11:47.820 So the question is, well, which would actually work fastest?

03:11:52.100 And there's wide segments of the U.S. where I 100% agree that there's,

03:11:59.920 and this is part of the reason I had you on,

03:12:02.580 is there are large sections of the U.S. where the Stone Choir vision

03:12:05.600 perfectly coherent.

03:12:08.320 Probably one of the best things you could do if you're in the right parts of the U.S.

03:12:12.960 is listen to Stone Choir and start networking with people who listen to Stone Choir. I do not

03:12:18.500 wish you failure in your vision at all. But the reason that I'm pagan and not a Christian is I

03:12:25.180 do not think my part of the world is one of those places. I do not think Central Europe is one of

03:12:30.480 those places. I do not think Norse in Europe, by and large, is one of those places. Maybe England

03:12:36.540 and a few other places it could work, but to fix the Christian religion in Canada or 0.96

03:12:44.400 in Germany would almost certainly be a 100-year project, whereas we have a 50-year deadline

03:12:54.060 at the longest.

03:12:56.400 You know, to fix the Christian church in Canada, especially with how financially integrated

03:13:04.200 it is with the state here. Again, the Catholic Church receives quite possibly tens of billions

03:13:11.100 of dollars annually from the Canadian government of Ontario alone. To fix the institutional

03:13:22.820 Christianity here at all, I think would take a hundred years if everything else was working, 0.95

03:13:28.300 and everything else is not working. It's going to be dust virally, and I can guarantee you 0.76

03:13:32.780 that the Canadian Lutheran Church, the Canadian Anglican Church, the Canadian

03:13:37.220 Catholic Church, all these institutions are going to get vastly worse over the next 10 years.

03:13:44.200 They're going to get vastly worse. They're going to death spiral as much or more than other

03:13:50.340 institutions because they're that integrated with the state. And so I look at this and I say,

03:13:55.920 well, okay, what's the realistic path?

03:13:59.780 And quite frankly, this has been a question for about 100 years.

03:14:05.180 And what we see consistently from many very smart people

03:14:09.820 through the last 100 years, Ludendorff, the German field marshal,

03:14:15.600 or I think he was the rank below field marshal

03:14:18.740 because Hindenburg was field marshal.

03:14:20.660 He became Norse Pagan and led a Norse Pagan revival movement.

03:14:28.940 The Bob Matthews of the Silent Brotherhood, American Norse Paganism. 0.65

03:14:36.400 This is why Norse Paganism is throughout the American prison system.

03:14:40.080 And he actually managed to secure a lot of those institutional attachments that now have infected the U.S.

03:14:49.880 u.s military uh those movements were uh white white nationals pagan movements uh brought about

03:14:59.920 in immediate association with uh william luther pierce uh david lane kajita lane uh and william

03:15:08.820 gailey simpson who i'm doing a reading series series on now uh on the anarcho-nical podcast

03:15:14.420 uh but but my argument would be okay the christian pagan division is going to go

03:15:22.940 go back and forth but quite frankly and i've said this before but uh i would i would gladly

03:15:33.840 go to hell if i could save my nation and my people quite frankly like uh the the spiritual

03:15:39.960 question of salvation and the spiritual question of of what is metaphysically correct what what

03:15:50.940 will deliver my my soul unto final judgment i would gladly uh go to an eternal battlefield

03:15:58.720 and live with one forever if i could effectively say by by people on earth i would gladly gladly

03:16:07.860 be wrong on the spiritual side if my children could live in the Canada that my grandparents

03:16:16.460 had. And quite frankly, trying to revive the Christian church in my country or trying to

03:16:27.000 revive it throughout most of Europe, I think would be a fool's errand that would take vastly

03:16:36.680 too long it would slow slow us down and it would almost certainly not work quite frankly and that 0.93

03:16:46.720 that i'm not i'm not going to accept that these countries that have gone gone too far atheist or

03:16:53.960 that that because some class of priests in the 1960s accepted too much government money that

03:17:00.960 that these races of people are going to be wiped out by migrants you know you know that might take

03:17:08.180 a lot of the nice options off the table that might take a lot of the options off the table 1.00

03:17:11.860 that that you know my grandmother or a lot of figures in our in our immediate history could

03:17:20.080 would agree with or admire but quite frankly it if it involves if it's uglier or it involves

03:17:29.580 involves pacts with Odin or involves reviving a lot of Viking institutions or going back

03:17:37.620 even farther like there are still moves on the table for all these countries that Americans

03:17:44.520 like to say oh that country's cooked it's doomed it's over the west is over you know west fallen

03:17:50.360 no there's more ruthless things we can do there's further we can go and quite frankly I

03:17:58.620 I don't see going back in the U.S. where they're in the U.S. and parts of the U.K. where there are coherent churches that that have like a good selection of people that I was to a church recently.

03:18:18.800 My sister goes to a Christian church.

03:18:21.560 She goes to a Baptist church.

03:18:22.980 I decided to go with her.

03:18:24.600 It was Easter and I was doing nothing.

03:18:26.700 i i go with her and uh the church it's it's these old christian families and then all the men there

03:18:35.000 were east indian that these east indian men had had gone word that all these all these white

03:18:46.520 girls were going to this church and that they were cooking food and that they could show up

03:18:51.040 and there'd be there'd be food and white women and they'd have access says to them and that's

03:18:58.560 what i see with christian churches and and quite frankly i've even still inquire i haven't really

03:19:06.520 heard of like any church tradition that would just say no whites only this is a segregated church

03:19:11.660 church uh this tribe only and that would be like largely unachievable uh throughout most most of

03:19:20.060 less to get that off the ground and get that going. Whereas with Norse paganism and a lot

03:19:27.520 of pagan traditions, that ethnic specificity is built in. You worship Odin because you are

03:19:37.060 direct descendant of him. If you're an adjunct descendant of him, the door is that way. There's

03:19:43.420 a reason you're welcome there and there's a lot more opportunity for those selection pressures

03:19:52.360 and for those exclusionary pressures in the Norse Norse pagan tradition and that either

03:20:00.560 that I think is necessary that we need need the immediate solutions that work to the immediate

03:20:09.560 conditions that exist. You argued that Christian identity, the movement that argues that

03:20:18.140 whites are the chosen people, that the Jews that exist today are imitators. You argued that this 0.77

03:20:28.040 movement is basically Judaism, but swapping out the race for white people. Well, that's almost 0.94

03:20:36.360 certainly true and that's almost certainly the cynical interpretation of it and quite frankly

03:20:42.040 that's also the cynical interpretation of of a lot of norse paganism that's like oh you're trying

03:20:47.900 to create a judaism out of like your your own traditional regional gods gods of your own like

03:20:56.440 miserable like corners of the world that will tell you that your people is uniquely special 0.94

03:21:02.880 and you have to be ethnocentric amongst yourself and that's that's largely true that's probably one 0.90

03:21:11.620 of the best criticisms of norse paganism that's judaism for blonde people but the thing is judaism

03:21:18.240 worked like judaism as a religious political ethnic tradition is hyper competitive and actually

03:21:27.060 did secure an ethno-state in the Middle East

03:21:30.840 and did advance the Jewish people

03:21:34.380 very forcefully forward

03:21:36.340 in multi-ethnic societies 0.94

03:21:38.940 like the ones we've been forced to live in. 1.00

03:21:42.760 And quite frankly,

03:21:44.780 when the question is the survival of my future children,

03:21:47.540 I'm not going to hold my nose

03:21:49.360 from using tactics that would work

03:21:52.540 if I think they could work.

03:21:57.060 and this is like really core to a lot of my convictions on this is that no this is a matter

03:22:06.320 of survival of our people and our children and if some of it's distasteful or breaks tradition with

03:22:13.800 like people we admire well all great things require sacrifice and the greater the achievement

03:22:21.160 the more sacrifice is going to be required. You may know this, but you were virtually

03:22:30.800 quoting Paul who said, for I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ

03:22:36.520 for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen, according to the flesh. That's an entirely Christian view

03:22:43.460 to treat your own as precious. That's literally godly order. So that's not something that's

03:22:52.560 incompatible. Now, you're talking about strictly the physical preservation of everyone. And

03:22:58.480 I don't, I agree about the churches in Europe and Canada. I don't agree about the churches in

03:23:06.200 America. I think they're every bit as cooked. I think they're differently cooked due to historical

03:23:11.260 reasons going back really to the 19th century. But when we started Stone Choir, like I said

03:23:21.060 earlier, I thought that reaching some pastors might help straighten things out. They have all

03:23:26.220 disabused me of that knowledge. Not one stone will be left upon another in any church in any

03:23:31.520 country. There's not a single Christian church denomination left. That's not to say that aren't 0.99

03:23:37.900 congregations trapped in some of those where there is still Christianity, you know, not what I would

03:23:44.500 be happy with, but like at least putatively Christian and not actively antagonistic in a way

03:23:51.900 that serves the Woodrow Wilson arc of history. But those are extremely few and far between,

03:23:57.820 and they're going to be destroyed by their own institutions. So when Corey and I look at

03:24:05.640 the religious questions and the political questions, we only see them as, well, I won't

03:24:12.920 speak for him, I only see them as being the same to the extent that when warfare comes,

03:24:20.160 when we're identifying friend versus enemy, I would very much like to see actual Christian

03:24:26.780 voices at the table where most people are not going to be. Because I believe that there are

03:24:32.620 sound Christian arguments rooted in our history that are entirely compatible with wiping out all

03:24:39.820 of our enemies. I think that that's something that, frankly, Christianity has done wrong. 0.97

03:24:45.420 I think that when Christians went to all these lands and found all these wicked practices, 1.00

03:24:53.220 they didn't do anything to punish the evil. And they found cannibals and all the horrors. 1.00

03:24:59.120 they just like well man that's that's a bummer let's tell them about jesus i don't think that

03:25:04.120 was a christian response at all and i'm in a very short list of men who believe that but

03:25:09.080 again when you have errors in any sphere introduced early on and then slowly accrete

03:25:17.320 and feed on themselves after a while you get way off the mark of where things began

03:25:23.060 because of that small course correction. I don't care about saving a single one of the churches.

03:25:33.240 I think that they need to be destroyed for the sake of the souls in them because there are some 0.90

03:25:38.160 Christians still trapped behind enemy lines. They just don't know any better. They're like 1.00

03:25:42.520 I was 10, 15 years ago where I wasn't paying attention to how bad the church that I was in

03:25:47.160 was getting you know i saw that i saw the pro forma aspects every sunday like yeah this is what

03:25:52.960 i remember this is fine and you know i never went to a church that was doing any you know rainbow

03:25:57.100 stuff like when i when i lived near cupertino i went to the cupertino lcms church it was very

03:26:03.160 conservative like they they still at least at the time didn't have women's suffrage which was

03:26:09.540 unusual even in the lcms today and it was the norm 50 years ago it was practically the rule

03:26:16.160 but i'm sure that there are christians at that congregation that would if they heard stone choir

03:26:24.500 struggle with some things agree with a lot of things and maybe it would help them diagnose

03:26:30.140 the state of the denomination that they're trapped in but that's a separate question from

03:26:36.520 the political it is completely separate i agree with you saving the race

03:26:43.320 is necessary, as I said, it's necessary for the preservation of Christianity. I flat out do not 0.99

03:26:49.280 believe that Christianity can exist, period, without white people preserving it. And I think, 1.00

03:26:56.020 frankly, that that's something that God promised through Noah to Japheth. When he, we, the blessing

03:27:02.220 that he was given was he was dwelling in the tents of Shem. Shem's ancestor was Jacob, who was named

03:27:09.780 Israel by God, which means wrestles with God, which I think is kind of funny when you look at

03:27:15.700 their history. They were a disaster. Like it was a compliment to him because Jacob was a warrior. 0.99

03:27:20.740 I mean, he wrestled physically with God all night and God finally had to cheat to beat him.

03:27:26.480 And that's an example that's taught in every church. And I don't think we necessarily look at

03:27:31.360 it in the vein of the warrior tradition. That's absolutely what it is. That was physical combat.

03:27:36.860 It wasn't combat to the death, but it was combat nevertheless.

03:27:41.460 And I think one of the difficult things that a lot of people don't understand about the Judeo-Christianity BS,

03:27:54.000 I think hopefully probably your audience all understands, well, some of them think it's the same thing, 0.74

03:27:58.740 that it's all just Judeo, you know, that I'm a Christ cuck. 0.97

03:28:01.000 and very, I have been poisoned by Jewish lies, 0.97

03:28:06.480 that there's a huge vein on the right that believes that 0.91

03:28:09.000 and will never change their mind

03:28:10.760 because they're so disgusted by what those people have done to our homelands

03:28:15.480 that it's easier to blame me because I'm in one of the institutions

03:28:20.720 that used to keep that stuff at bay and no longer does. 1.00

03:28:25.860 but when I look at the trajectory of things I think we have five years to get Christians out

03:28:36.620 of the churches and start building something new and one of the questions you had for me was you

03:28:41.920 know stone choir starting a church that will never happen and it doesn't need to because honestly at

03:28:46.640 this point stone choir's catalog is the litmus test for whether or not you have a Christian church

03:28:53.100 you mentioned the debates between you know protestants and roman catholics and you know

03:28:58.900 all the all the denominational fights over doctrine i'm still a lutheran lutheran doctrine

03:29:05.420 i believe is true because i believe it's in accord with scripture i no longer care about doctrine

03:29:10.460 for its own sake because i see that it has become idolatrous i will still argue with someone over

03:29:17.180 baptism and communion because i still believe what i think the bible says about those things

03:29:21.380 But that's not the fight. The fight is the extermination of the white race of the sons of Japheth by the sons of Shem and the sons of Ham. It is the rest of the world against us. And we're the only ones who are being exterminated. We're the only ones being targeted. And I believe that the spiritual reason for it is that Christianity dies without us. 0.77

03:29:43.820 and so for that reason as a logical progression we have to preserve the white race in order to 0.94

03:29:52.660 save christianity we can't save christianity without it that doesn't mean that the church

03:29:56.620 is going to be involved in these fights like like i said most of the guys dealing with this stuff

03:30:01.620 are not christian or they're really struggling because they've never heard good arguments from

03:30:09.580 an actual Christian for what needs to be done. And that's why we started Stone Choir. Like, 0.88

03:30:17.480 look, you can actually be Christian and fight for your country, not in the, you know, army recruiter

03:30:24.380 poster flag waving sense. You can fight for your nation. I use the wrong word. I mean,

03:30:29.700 country is a physical territory. The nation is the blood. We're fighting for both. You in Canada,

03:30:35.140 me in America, many of your listeners in Europe, we have particular places. I'm 75% English and

03:30:42.640 about 20-ish percent German, and 100% is Northwestern European. All of my ancestors are from those

03:30:49.960 places. That's the part of the world that I care about. As far as I see it, every place on the

03:30:57.360 planet that europeans that the sons of jath of the sons of japheth have gone has become europe 0.64

03:31:04.420 not in the sense that we're directly connected but it's it's the same picture we're the same blood

03:31:10.400 and there was absolutely an ethnogenesis of a new american race here which i'm kind of a prime

03:31:16.640 example like my ratio is extremely like when you look at one of the memes that shows the

03:31:21.700 the breakdown of the american genetics it's pretty close to me and i look like one of those pictures

03:31:30.360 pretty close which is no surprise because like we're all related we're all the same when you go

03:31:35.520 back far enough all right so i have been meaning to ask you this and uh i i was going to be very

03:31:47.920 cruel in asking this. I was going to lean into it, but I'll do it anyway. So I hear all the

03:31:56.720 time from these prominent political commentators. Hucker Carlson is one of the main ones that,

03:32:07.500 no, we have to remain peaceful. We have to remain democratic. We have to follow the process. We

03:32:15.100 have to follow the constitution and then when they're asked well will you run for office

03:32:21.440 they say no and and i always want to ask them well how much can you really believe in democracy

03:32:29.540 and the constitution in the process when you aren't willing to participate in the process

03:32:33.620 like uh like rg really telling us how much you believe in in the possibility of democratic change

03:32:43.320 and participatory government when you personally won't participate in the democratic system. 0.94

03:32:53.380 I find the same critique applies to Christians who will point out what's wrong with the church, 0.96

03:33:06.600 but also don't want to start a church. All of Christ's followers, basically every character 0.79

03:33:11.940 in the uh new testament right down to mary magdalen uh started worse were head priesthood

03:33:23.260 were were spreading the word were practicing the christian gospel were leading the the traditions

03:33:33.300 the traditions, the rituals.

03:33:40.180 Why won't you start a church?

03:33:42.900 Shouldn't our listeners be deeply suspicious

03:33:46.100 that if the solution is found in Christianity,

03:33:54.740 why is it that no one who identifies the problem

03:33:59.560 actually wants to start a church?

03:34:02.000 For reference, you might say, well, you haven't...

03:34:07.440 I've started a classics book club.

03:34:09.080 I'm meeting with people, like, every month to read Caesar's Gallic War.

03:34:15.140 We had 15 people out reading the mealing dialogues aloud from Thucydides last month.

03:34:24.180 Very good dramatic readings, too.

03:34:26.340 Like in the middle of a blizzard, traveling like three, six hours to dive into classical techs on war, and probably going to have a lot of them out shooting sometime quite soon.

03:34:47.020 Like, within reason, I'd argue that, not that reason should really be a limit, but in terms of like actual things, I know a lot of people, a lot of pagans and stuff, starring classics, book clubs, book clubs and the like in person and trying to get this warrior ethos going again.

03:35:16.420 Why won't Stone Choir, why isn't Stone Choir trying to start churches?

03:35:28.300 Churches are a very particular thing for the specific reason that they belong to God.

03:35:35.780 And a church is necessarily 100% local.

03:35:40.020 Internet church is an oxymoron.

03:35:42.060 a church as a set of people probably under 150 in a particular place doesn't need to be a building

03:35:50.240 it's got nothing to do with a building has nothing to do with an LLC or a corporation

03:35:53.320 it's literally the gathering of the faithful together to study and once you get there that is

03:36:00.220 there's there's an element of a book club to it and the reason that Corey and I would not

03:36:08.280 do such a thing is multifaceted one because it's 100 local I honestly don't know anyone in the

03:36:17.440 area I one or two guys like an hour or so away who are or were listeners but I don't have any

03:36:24.240 group of guys to stand up for any such purpose so like everything that I've done has been 100

03:36:31.740 percent virtual, which, as I said earlier, our goal was to build a library that would equip

03:36:38.360 everyone, everywhere on the planet. Anyone who found it, even years in the future, would be able

03:36:43.460 to learn about slavery, about leadership, about take your pick. And after listening for a couple

03:36:51.440 hours, they're going to be equipped in their own context, whether it's in their church or whether

03:36:56.460 they're starting one of their own, which is increasingly happening among places where there

03:37:00.780 there are a number of listeners who have all been driven out of their churches for the things the

03:37:05.460 stone choir says, which are all entirely either from scripture or they're from plain reason in

03:37:11.640 reality. God is the creator of all things. That includes our DNA. It includes everything we see

03:37:17.300 and touch. It's all of it. When we talk about that, the churches want to hurt us. So that's why

03:37:23.980 they're they're done the men are not done the men still have to go somewhere

03:37:29.500 but cory and i aren't in a position you know he's in tennessee i'm in new england

03:37:37.120 and the other one of the other facets is that you know it's god's it's like it's not just

03:37:45.280 starting a book club like there are there are literally rules in the bible that lay out

03:37:50.180 what the qualifications for a teacher, which is a shepherd, there are qualifications for

03:37:59.580 kind of describing what a church should look like. And one aspect of this is that

03:38:06.920 I haven't personally worked through this yet, but from what I've seen and what I've studied,

03:38:12.640 basically everything post-Constantine is a radical departure from the form of Christianity

03:38:22.020 previously. Not the doctrine, not the teachings, not the beliefs. So I'm not one of those guys

03:38:27.460 that's like, oh, you know, Constantine invented the Trinity and all that crap. That's nonsense. 0.97

03:38:31.560 The Trinity is in Matthew 3 and it's in Matthew 28. That is from the Bible. That was not invented

03:38:39.160 three centuries later. But when Christianity graduated from being an underground persecuted

03:38:48.340 religion, first by the Jews, then by the Romans, and eventually became legalized,

03:38:54.560 there was a shift in how Christians were able to practice. In the first century, in the second

03:39:00.860 century, in the third century, as the persecutions ramped up, a lot of the gathering of congregations,

03:39:08.840 the churches, their gatherings were in secret because they were being hunted. And in many

03:39:17.160 cases, they were going to be killed if they were caught. And when that pressure went away,

03:39:25.560 something emerged that became known as, you know, Protestantism, we call it the pastorate.

03:39:32.240 Roman Catholicism has the priesthood. East North Rocks kind of call it both, but usually priests.

03:39:38.840 Something happened there not long after Christians were able to gather publicly that fundamentally

03:39:46.580 changed what was going on with the man standing up in front in relation to the people who

03:39:53.040 are sitting down and listening to him.

03:39:55.380 And I haven't worked through yet personally what I believe should have happened relative

03:40:02.620 to what exists today, because this question upends most of Christian history.

03:40:08.260 Again, it doesn't change belief. It's strictly a question of practice and tradition. But

03:40:14.020 downstream from the practice of essentially repristinating the priesthood, which God did

03:40:21.280 away with, the priesthood died on the cross. When Jesus said, it is finished, there were no more

03:40:27.440 priests because the priests were offering sacrifices to God on behalf of the congregations.

03:40:34.640 you know synagogue is a funny word synagogue is a greek word that means congregation

03:40:39.180 so when people today hear synagogue i think that's really super jewish it was a generic

03:40:44.500 greek term for a gathering a synagogue has no particular religious connotation never mind a

03:40:51.660 jewish connotation anytime there was a synagogue anytime there's a gathering of christians together

03:40:58.480 where the man standing up in front prior to Constantine, prior to the repristination of

03:41:06.520 the priesthood, he was not offering sacrifices. He was up there teaching. He was offering prayers

03:41:12.220 and, you know, offer in a sense of we lift our prayers to God, but those are a plea to God for

03:41:23.220 good conscience, for forgiveness, for blessings, for whatever is needed that God can provide.

03:41:29.260 That's not a sacrifice. The sacrifice aspect was a part of the priesthood and what happened in

03:41:38.820 subsequent generations and was finally very well solidified in Roman Catholicism and really most

03:41:46.540 of the rest, even if they didn't sort of completely restore the sacrificial ideas,

03:41:52.980 altars are another example. There were no altars in the early churches, absolutely none. Altars

03:41:57.760 are a pagan thing that the post-Constantinian church re-imported from just what Romans were

03:42:05.440 doing. And part of it was simply that when they were able to use buildings again, instead of

03:42:09.880 hiding in basements. The buildings, you know, the typical standard Roman design was, you know,

03:42:16.820 what you see today in a church. You have pews, maybe colonnades, everyone's facing the same

03:42:21.060 direction. And then there's a pulpit and there's an altar smack dab in the middle.

03:42:27.540 That design was not ever used in any of the early churches. We have one or two

03:42:32.660 of the early churches that are actually preserved to this day. They have a very

03:42:36.120 different architecture, not only because they were smaller, but because they didn't have this

03:42:40.720 pulpit that was the magical place for the special priest to enunciate his declarations in a way

03:42:48.500 that's different from what is described in scripture. But also there was simply no altar

03:42:53.100 whatsoever. There was a table, and it was a table, like I'm sitting at now, I'm sitting in a kitchen

03:42:58.440 table. The table that they gathered around for communion was, it was communal. It was like you

03:43:05.620 getting together with friends and eating. And the departure, the re-personation of the priesthood

03:43:11.440 and the shift in focus in the sacraments,

03:43:15.860 my view right now is leaning towards. I'm not saying this absolutely because I'm still working

03:43:22.740 on this. I can't make it because it's so disruptive to what I was taught and what I believe.

03:43:28.100 So I have to thread the needle here between making sure I'm not messing with God's stuff

03:43:33.520 and changing something that should not be changed versus finding a place where something was changed

03:43:38.900 subtly that then 1,700 years later, now we have all the pastors and the priests acting like they're

03:43:47.340 priests who can sacrifice us on the altar of DEI. And that's another reason why I wouldn't

03:43:56.060 personally be involved because I don't know what a church should look like today. I honestly can't

03:44:00.740 tell you. I think it would probably be much closer to the Presbyterian approach, where men are raised

03:44:06.180 up from the congregation. Again, I don't have a congregation. I don't have Christian friends to

03:44:11.240 even pretend to do any of this stuff with physically, because again, you got to be here to 0.95

03:44:16.140 do it. So I can't do that personally. It's not a question of I'm not devoted to any of this stuff.

03:44:21.120 It's that I'm in isolation, and that was by design. I was told by my church, they didn't

03:44:27.480 excommunicate me. They didn't kick me out. They said, if you show your face again, the rest of us

03:44:32.080 are going to stop coming. They effectively said, we'll burn down the church and just we'll end this 0.88

03:44:37.480 if you ever show up again. So I'm like, okay. I mean, you guys are going to go to hell if you do

03:44:42.440 that. So I'll just leave. And after I was doxed, I laid low for a little while and I tried to go to 0.99

03:44:47.320 an OPC, a Presbyterian church. And I told the pastor what had happened. And he said, let me

03:44:52.500 talk to the elders and get back to you. And he ghosted me. So it's been made very clear to me

03:44:56.180 personally, I can't meet with other Christians in their buildings. I am persona non grata. Like, 0.99

03:45:02.080 okay, those are synagogues in the Jewish sense. Those are wicked places now. So for me personally, 1.00

03:45:09.580 that's why I wouldn't like try to start a church. And the third reason, and a genuine significant

03:45:14.900 reason, is that my reputation is so tainted and destroyed by the slander that's been spread about

03:45:21.940 me that I am necessarily polarizing. Oh, and by the way, I don't mean half the qualifications to

03:45:28.100 be a pastor. You know, I could be involved in starting a church without being the guy standing

03:45:33.000 up there, but I don't mean any of the qualifications to be an elder. I violate some of them. I'm

03:45:38.980 divorced, which is not permissible. Because of being doxxed and being attacked and having my

03:45:45.520 reputation destroyed, I'm not above reproach in a sense that wouldn't scandalize others,

03:45:51.020 even though i believe i have a clean conscience for my words and my actions over the last

03:45:55.160 you know nine years since before i was doxed it's still so scandalous that my name would even come

03:46:02.680 up that suddenly that becomes the question so like it would be the church of do we hate woe or do we

03:46:08.160 love woe and that's bad that's that is making me central when god is central so it would be a

03:46:14.300 violation of my conscience to do that and i will never do anything to violate my conscience period

03:46:19.100 which is why I don't know what will happen what will come in the future and I would violate my

03:46:25.120 conscience to even say that we should do you know some of the things I described about the primitive

03:46:31.400 church but it's a much bigger deal than just starting a book club and so it's it's absolutely

03:46:37.920 not apathy on my part it's I wish that it would be possible for me to participate now there are

03:46:44.760 a couple other congregations that have sprung up since this kicked off, again, precisely because 0.92

03:46:50.220 Christians are being driven from these synagogues by wicked men. Doug Wilson, Matt Harrison, the 0.93

03:46:56.380 LCMS, they're all actively manhunting anyone who's listened to Stone Choir. Maybe if they disagree,

03:47:02.120 it is so dangerous for someone to have listened that you're trying to identify who those men are.

03:47:06.460 And they've sent out notes to pastors to help them identify. And they've particularly said,

03:47:10.520 you know, if any young single guys have shown up in the last year, you need to interrogate them to

03:47:16.680 see if they ever listen to Stone Choir. Because we've sent so many men to churches, like, find out

03:47:21.040 the guy who's been faithfully attending your church quietly and not causing any trouble

03:47:25.140 for the last year who's joined as a member, you need to find out if he listened to Stone Choir

03:47:29.600 and get rid of him if he did. That is a degree of...

03:47:35.520 That, that's insane because churches are supposed to accept, like, like, uh, if you're a murderer who's on parole, you're supposed to be able to attend church.

03:47:49.080 Yep.

03:47:49.980 Or, like, they're supposed to be able to, no, we don't want you here because X, Y, or Z, however, this church you can go to.

03:47:57.540 Like, they're supposed to set you off of somewhere where you can get spiritual, um, guidance, even if they don't think they can do it.

03:48:05.520 themselves. 0.99

03:48:10.140 If you've ever listened to Stone Choir, you need to just go to hell. 1.00

03:48:13.740 That is why I am positively convinced, without any shadow of a doubt, there are no Christian 1.00

03:48:19.760 denominations left. 1.00

03:48:21.460 Because they're all acting like this, whether they know about us or not.

03:48:25.640 The same sort of like, if anyone were accused of being a Nazi in any congregation, it's

03:48:30.360 over for them.

03:48:31.160 They're done, period, forever. 0.97

03:48:32.400 They will be driven out violently if necessary.

03:48:36.440 Multiple guys have had the cops called on them, and it's because of Stone Choir.

03:48:40.680 Not because we said to go be disrupted.

03:48:42.060 We said go to church, sit quietly, learn, study the stuff, like the doctrines that are

03:48:47.480 true and correct.

03:48:48.820 Benefit as you can, and just understand those guys don't dictate your politics at all.

03:48:54.800 It's a completely separate sphere.

03:48:58.040 The political should rule over the church.

03:49:00.720 That's always been the case.

03:49:02.400 One of the problems with Rome was that they inverted that, and suddenly the pope was kingmaker.

03:49:07.940 Whereas when you go from Adam through Noah to Abraham, all the patriarchs were prophet, priest, and king.

03:49:16.780 You know, Abraham, when one of his—I don't remember the story exactly, but one of his cousins was kidnapped,

03:49:24.200 he raised an army of 300 men, traveled a great distance, and killed everybody involved to get his kinsmen back.

03:49:32.400 And he was, he was the patriarch. Like we think in Bible terms, we hear patriarch. We think,

03:49:37.820 you know, he's, you know, maybe he was leading prayers and very pious. He was a warrior and he

03:49:42.520 had a standing army and they went and killed a bunch of dudes because they messed with his

03:49:45.980 relatives. That is entirely Christian. And the fact that that's been lost is why we are where 1.00

03:49:52.200 we are, which is why I don't, I just don't have any patience for the notion that we need anything

03:49:58.700 other than you know you described being willing to go to hell for the sake of people i i pointed

03:50:04.800 out that's a basically a quote from paul that's an entirely christian view and what's the the big

03:50:12.320 problem is that pagans and unbelievers alike will have that view and think that that separates them

03:50:20.600 the church, when in reality, by church I mean

03:50:24.220 the capital C, all the elect, all Christians

03:50:28.880 in all places and all times, not any particular denomination. I mean, all

03:50:32.700 believers. You are not separated from Christ by

03:50:36.740 wanting to protect your blood. That is service to God.

03:50:40.380 I have quotations from Christ that would say different,

03:50:44.520 that he who loves his

03:50:47.740 his mother, his father, his child, his wife, more than me, is not worthy of me, that

03:50:57.660 I respect that we have very different interpretations of the New Testament. And

03:51:06.780 I'm not going to sit here and presume to say that you listeners should 100% believe my

03:51:15.920 interpretation over woes. He has obviously studied it much more, but my reading of the

03:51:26.500 New Testament and the quotations of Christ, especially if, like me, you don't believe

03:51:33.240 that Christ was metaphysically guiding the rest of the New Testament, like all the things

03:51:42.340 that aren't direct quotations from Christ

03:51:44.560 might as well be

03:51:45.460 because the Bible is divinely inspired.

03:51:49.300 I don't have that opinion of Paul.

03:51:52.800 Paul or like most of the works

03:51:55.940 outside the immediate three Gospels

03:51:58.560 of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

03:52:02.540 I think everything else has to be

03:52:04.820 taken with a grain of salt

03:52:06.640 as not as being someone else's

03:52:11.960 interpretation of what they think think jesus wanted not not a quotation from the guy whereas

03:52:18.740 whereas uh mark luke and matthew to the extent any quotation from christ from the person of christ

03:52:28.160 is true uh those are the three they're actually structured and presume to to provide accurate

03:52:35.900 quotations of christ uh the book of um john i might be confusing it with luke but john uh the

03:52:43.240 structure is significantly different uh that uh christ will begin speaking and then it will

03:52:49.820 seamlessly flow back into narration without the quotation closing out that it's like a very a very

03:52:57.780 abstracted person that's like very obviously not written by someone as immediately attached

03:53:06.260 to the story sorry but uh when my interpretation is when you read like the core core gospels uh

03:53:15.660 the three and then john some somewhat uh

03:53:20.680 i i really do see the genesis of like a modern western ideology in it which can be

03:53:31.760 debated extensively uh obviously if you interpret in light of the old testament you can get something

03:53:39.600 like like uh your your interpretation of it but uh christ very explicitly

03:53:47.020 does renounce parts of the Old Testament, famously the Sermon on the Mount.

03:53:55.380 He renounces an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. You have heard it said, but I say to you

03:54:01.540 that just interpreting his quotations and the words of Jesus, I don't think the

03:54:17.020 that every that every church that has gone gay race communism has necessarily an implausible

03:54:29.140 interpretation like i think i think there are like two coherent interpretations one of which

03:54:36.380 is yours and one of which is theirs and i think the texts can go either either way and

03:54:45.220 whenever I read certain quotations from Jesus.

03:54:50.620 Well, you believe that because you reject almost all of Scripture.

03:54:54.080 If Jesus is God, then what he said when he said,

03:54:57.180 whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me.

03:55:01.680 That's literally the first and third commandment.

03:55:03.620 The first commandment, you shall know that God's before me.

03:55:06.640 The third commandment is honor your father and mother.

03:55:09.380 What he said is not incompatible.

03:55:11.400 What he says is a reference back to the order.

03:55:14.520 God is first because he is our creator.

03:55:17.380 Your biological father is not your creator, except in the proximate sense,

03:55:22.600 but your ultimate creator is God.

03:55:24.900 And so what Jesus is describing is headship in order of priority,

03:55:30.100 but it is not setting them at odds with each other,

03:55:32.240 which is why Paul's statement, his quotation from earlier,

03:55:36.040 about wishing to go to hell for the sake of his kinsmen according to the flesh

03:55:39.820 is not at odds with this, because he's not saying I hate Christ. He's saying I'm devoted to my kin

03:55:45.760 for the sake of God. That is obedience to the first commandment, to have no other gods before

03:55:51.440 God. Yeah, but I'm not wishing to be damned for the sake of my kin's salvation. I'm willing to

03:56:02.440 be damned for the sake of their the physical survival of the continued minds like it's a very

03:56:10.260 like uh like it's a very distinct thing and actually there is a good um analogous it's a

03:56:20.500 question of loyalty that's the reason i pointed out is it's a matter of loyalty and it's a matter

03:56:24.740 of concentric circles of duty of care which begins with god and then your parents and then

03:56:31.600 your immediate family and then your relatives and then your nation it radiates outward starting

03:56:38.980 with your creator and then through all the ripples of our blood yes uh and there is this is uh a

03:56:48.020 debate with a long long pedigree uh obviously the christian tradition uh and the and the tradition

03:56:57.860 is in direct contrast to Hesiod's Theogony

03:57:02.080 and the story of Zeus's rebellion against Saturn.

03:57:09.780 Yes, Saturn.

03:57:11.680 Saturn, Zeus's rebellion against Kronos.

03:57:16.320 That there's been this profound tension

03:57:18.840 at Western civilization that one,

03:57:22.760 that both Western religious traditions,

03:57:25.460 begin with a war in heaven, either Satan's rebellion against God or Zeus's rebellion

03:57:33.900 against Kronos. And the two traditions take the exact opposite tact on who won and who were the

03:57:43.160 good guys. That in the pagan tradition, Zeus successfully overthrows his father and establishes

03:57:51.080 Olympus and establishes the Hellenic world and justice and the role of the gods. Whereas in the

03:58:00.340 Christian tradition, of course, Satan loses and is cast down. And this tension continues

03:58:07.320 through the entire Western tradition. Milton's Paradise Lost, his takedown of the classical

03:58:18.800 Grecian tradition, in which he casts a Lucifer in the role of a hero, taken hero, in a classical

03:58:31.740 Homeric epic poem.

03:58:33.200 Um, uh, he, he obviously goes through this entire, entire cycle of, um, basically Lucifer

03:58:49.120 going on an Achilles-style quest or a, uh, Jason the Argonaut-style quest to, uh, cause

03:58:56.220 the fall fall but uh has it kind of denouncing these pagan values and vision and is a takedown

03:59:05.200 of this of the pagan worldview and then uh percy shelley i want to say shelley it wasn't byron

03:59:12.360 yes it was shelley uh he writes prometheus unbound which is the exact same story you know it's exact

03:59:20.460 Same, a great noble hero has a fall because he rebels against God.

03:59:29.900 But in Shelley's vision, he's a beautiful, doomed, tragic hero.

03:59:35.060 He's Prometheus.

03:59:35.900 He's not Lucifer.

03:59:37.460 And this tension between these two rivaled visions of noble rebellion and the pagan tradition

03:59:48.560 and worry versus the undying fate in the Christian tradition.

03:59:55.020 This has been going back and forth for beyond 2,000 years,

04:00:01.720 closer to 3,000.

04:00:04.080 And I don't think the last brilliant epic poem about it has been written yet.

04:00:09.780 But this, I doubt will resolve that tension today.

04:00:18.560 There's a straight line from Carl Jung through Joseph Campbell to Jordan Peterson today

04:00:26.020 of treating religion entirely as a manifestation of man's psyche.

04:00:34.200 These are all, even if there's, to the extent that there's something spiritual and supernatural going on,

04:00:40.580 which they're not averse to, it's humanist in origin.

04:00:44.580 It's not coming from God.

04:00:46.160 There's no external reality that's being reported, but each world religion is the local manifestation from man of these stories through storytelling and myth, which is why we see the flood story everywhere.

04:01:04.060 We see the flood myth everywhere. We see these sorts of father, you know, rebellion stories.

04:01:09.480 The motifs that Campbell popularized and sort of came up with a taxonomy of is a specific rejection

04:01:18.560 of God, period. But it was done in such a way that it wasn't overtly atheistic because it made us

04:01:26.980 feel good. It made us the hearers of the story. If this stuff is all about us and look what I do

04:01:33.200 when I tell stories and how it's actually the outflowing of what's inside me somewhere.

04:01:38.960 That makes people feel good, which is why it became popular. The problem is that

04:01:46.720 it's one possible hypothesis for why there's a flood narrative in every civilization around

04:01:55.120 the world, or why we see so many of these stories retold in different ways, as you illustrated,

04:02:00.200 with different details, but it's clearly very close to the same characters. It's like that

04:02:05.000 happens over and over again, far too often to be coincidence. I don't think anyone believes that

04:02:10.100 it's a coincidence that everybody just keeps coming up with the same stories and changing

04:02:14.080 the names and some details, but the basics are there in very obvious ways. If the origin is

04:02:22.840 humanist in nature, if it's just coming out of my soul, the soul of whoever came up with it,

04:02:27.920 it's in their DNA, it's somewhere inside the man, then that's a plausible reason. I'm not

04:02:35.000 conceding this point, but that's Campbell's theory. This is coming out of men and showing 0.99

04:02:41.220 up everywhere, and so that's why we see it. The alternative hypothesis, which everyone who

04:02:47.500 rejects God necessarily has to just say, well, it couldn't possibly be, is that all of these stories

04:02:54.040 are absolutely true all these myths are true in one telling and then all of the other tellings

04:03:01.020 are diminishments or departures from the specific details or inversions and corruptions because

04:03:08.100 what was once good then the people were good and then through the the ages of time and the passage

04:03:16.060 of storytelling from one generation to a next at some point the story changed because the people

04:03:23.280 changed. Now, my belief as a Christian is all those stories are true. All the stories about

04:03:28.340 all the gods you mentioned, any god anyone's ever heard of, there's something there. And it's one

04:03:34.700 of two things. Either it's a corruption of something true, like I mentioned earlier, I

04:03:39.620 believe that Japheth is in Noah, show up in those stories by different names. And through the

04:03:46.300 retelling of the stories, losing track of things, it just got lost to the point that we have some

04:03:52.020 of the details, but we don't know to whom it was pointing, because it was all oral tradition.

04:03:57.840 And particularly in the pagan lands, there was no oral tradition ever. The only records that we have

04:04:04.400 of the pagan beliefs are from Christians who came along, either as scholars or as contemporaneous,

04:04:11.100 you know, doing spiritual battle against them, recording their versions of things. So all we

04:04:16.320 know about paganism is filtered through Christians recording what they heard or what they corrupted, 0.87

04:04:24.000 what they damaged by misunderstanding, and then that's what we have today. There's no possibility 0.95

04:04:29.960 that oral tradition has been preserved perfectly, and no one would claim that. So when you look at

04:04:36.260 that and you see that inversion, you think that it's two equal diametrically opposed—I don't

04:04:44.000 mean to put words in your mouth. My perception is that you think there's two diametrically opposed

04:04:48.520 spiritual upwellings from different humanist perspectives, humanist origins that cause the

04:04:56.280 story to go in a different direction. And you prefer the pagan version and I prefer the Christian

04:05:02.160 version. I believe that that's not the case at all. I believe that they were all Christians at

04:05:07.580 one point. When Noah got off the ark, he was a Christian. His sons were Christians. There were no

04:05:12.700 Jews. Yeah, there's no such thing. That came a couple thousand years later, and it was a very 1.00

04:05:17.760 narrowly constrained thing. And this is something that's been completely destroyed. One of the

04:05:22.020 reasons that we ended Stone Choir on the Septuagint, which is the Greek Old Testament,

04:05:26.880 is that that was the Bible of Jesus and the apostles in the early church exclusively.

04:05:32.100 There was zero Hebrew in the first century. Absolutely zero. Nobody spoke Hebrew. Nobody

04:05:38.980 taught in Hebrew. Nobody was reading in Hebrew. It was dead and gone, which means 100% of the

04:05:46.220 context of the New Testament is Greek. It's written and recorded and spoken in Koine Greek,

04:05:52.900 which was the lingua franca of basically the known world at that point.

04:05:58.500 And the reason that is important is that any hearer who was not a Jew who heard that stuff, 0.74

04:06:05.860 When Paul went on his missionary journeys all throughout Europe, he left Jerusalem in the dust. 0.89

04:06:12.040 He covered a huge portion of the Mediterranean portion of Europe in his life, taking the word

04:06:20.400 of God to Athens and to all these other places where he spoke exactly the same language and he 0.85

04:06:27.100 did it to white people. He did it to our ancestors. And when he argued with them, when he spoke to 0.94

04:06:34.280 them and he taught them, he was doing so strictly in the context of pagan Greeks. I hope I'm not

04:06:42.700 abusing things by calling them pagans too, but like they were every bit as alien to the Jewish 0.95

04:06:50.860 origins as you would perceive pagans today. And the reason I bring this up is that when you look

04:06:59.220 at the spread of the gospel, I believe it was a fulfillment of the promise that God made through

04:07:05.700 Noah to his son Japheth. And when we have these stories passed down since then, you know, there's

04:07:12.640 the origins of history are basically lost because kind of the first story, everyone has the

04:07:17.440 primordial story of, you know, some sort of God made something or there's a turtle or whatever.

04:07:22.520 and then there's the universe i disagree strongly that everyone shares shares that um he see it um

04:07:31.020 i i've been mean to write a write a piece on this but um he see it in most most pagan creation myths

04:07:39.660 actually resemble i'd argue the kind of secular scientific argument in a lot of ways one can

04:07:50.440 argue that, like, Darwin and the secular scientists have just, like, re-derived the

04:07:56.680 Hesiod vision, but whether it's the—I haven't deep-dived the Norse-Croatian myth, but Hesiod

04:08:08.800 specifically begins very much like if you asked a liberal scientist what happened, he

04:08:18.460 he orders creation that um basically in the beginning was primordial chaos and then out of

04:08:26.260 it these like very distinct forces arrive like earth and sun and earth and light and night

04:08:35.220 and stuff like this and only later on do complex gods emerge and that uh the that's literally

04:08:44.400 Genesis. That is the Genesis

04:08:46.340 account of creation.

04:08:47.880 You should listen to this 6,000 Years and Counting episode.

04:08:51.660 Genesis

04:08:52.180 begins with a

04:08:54.360 creator God

04:08:55.320 speaking things into existence by

04:08:58.340 order.

04:08:59.900 It begins with a big bang.

04:09:06.120 Please, for your own sake, I'm going to argue.

04:09:09.900 6,000 Years and Counting is an episode where we go through

04:09:12.400 and go into detail on the very latest, at the time of recording,

04:09:16.900 scientific understanding of the Big Bang and the origins of everything.

04:09:21.100 And it is 100% detailed in the Genesis account,

04:09:25.740 including the primordial nothingness,

04:09:27.900 which in physics is quark-glon plasma.

04:09:30.740 It's in Genesis.

04:09:31.600 i i will disagree extensively with the six thousand thousand year view history but uh

04:09:43.500 that would be far too deep to get in this podcast no there's there's no you you have to

04:09:50.920 i if you it's of course i'm i'm not trying to convince you otherwise i'm saying that

04:09:56.300 christian scripture is 100 consistent with everything that we know

04:10:00.000 scientifically and we we lay the case out there so i'm not going to you know try to make any point

04:10:04.740 today dm it to me and i can 6 000 years and counting 6 000 years and counting on the stone

04:10:12.360 choir podcast if you want the probably the best defense of the 6 000 year hypothesis you're going

04:10:18.580 to find i i imagine you guys do it better than pretty much anyone else could but uh we do we

04:10:24.600 and we did it specifically because so many people kept fumbling around and screwing it up so badly 0.99

04:10:29.240 and making Christians look like a bunch of assholes, which I really don't like because we're not. 0.99

04:10:35.320 Fair enough. 0.99

04:10:36.900 On the point of Jung, because Jung is actually like very foundational to a lot of current pagan movements,

04:10:48.200 Specifically, the far-right variants.

04:10:52.520 Jung wrote an essay, Wotan, about Jung actually met Adolf Hitler very briefly in a crowd.

04:11:06.460 And he wrote this entire essay on seeing Adolf Hitler's eyes and how he saw the German people as being captured by the god Wotan.

04:11:18.200 Odin, but the Germanic spelling of it.

04:11:22.280 And it's one of the founding texts of a certain school of far-right neo-paganism.

04:11:30.940 But I wanted to offend Jung on a slightly different angle.

04:11:36.000 I would argue that the Jungian conception has been largely shown to be correct

04:11:43.800 via the example of artificial intelligence.

04:11:48.200 This is going to be an oddly structured argument, but I think you'll appreciate it.

04:11:53.920 So for the longest, basically the conception of computing and the development of computing,

04:12:02.360 you can see this in like early sci-fi of the 50s and 60s.

04:12:06.980 There's this conception, especially in the 60s, that AI was right around the corner in the 1960s.

04:12:14.000 that, um, computers were already doing the hard stuff. They're already doing math. They're already

04:12:20.660 doing, uh, uh, algorithms and compute computations. And you can imagine if you're a person in the

04:12:28.300 1960s, it's like, well, they're already doing the hard stuff, very plainly, you know, doing the

04:12:34.020 dishes or, uh, doing ordinary tasks. You know, that's easy. Anyone can do that. It takes so much

04:12:40.020 far to do math like this uh clearly the computers are going to to take off and handle everything

04:12:46.780 within like a few years and a lot of an incredible amount of american politics is animated by this

04:12:52.400 idea that that everything is just a compromise until we're all infinitely wealthy this is why

04:12:58.520 no americans in like the 60s or 70s is at all like very obsessed with like handling all these

04:13:05.560 cultural constitutional problems that are arising because well we can paper over this with all the

04:13:10.240 infinite money we're about to have but of course that is not what happens and that's not what

04:13:17.040 happens for a very interesting reason so a computer can do basically insane amounts of math beyond

04:13:24.060 what any of us are capable of and yet no robot has been devised that can like run catch a baseball

04:13:33.180 and then throw it back to get a picture out.

04:13:37.860 No complex sport, basically, can be competed by a robot of any kind

04:13:44.680 because the math involved in basic locomotion

04:13:48.680 that a normal human does without thinking

04:13:51.820 is actually 10,000 times, not 10,000 times,

04:13:57.880 tens of millions of times more computationally complex and like more more detailed and difficult

04:14:06.540 and impossible to model than basically anything we've even got the most advanced AIs to do there's

04:14:13.560 a reason uh there's a reason AI can create paintings but it can't do your dishes for you

04:14:20.400 there's a reason that basically no robot is going to ever be able to out-compete someone in

04:14:28.440 downhill skiing for example and that reason is that the vast vast majority of your mental

04:14:36.560 computation your um your actual thinking is done in sub-linguistic parts of your brain

04:14:44.740 Like, from your perspective, if you're participating in a sport, you know, you run, you catch a ball in midair, you toss it to the other hand, and you throw it back while doing a pivot turn to perform this interception or what have you, this catch in baseball in the most efficient way possible.

04:15:07.260 from your perspective that's all second nature from your perspective that requires like basically

04:15:14.020 no thought at all I'd show you you kind of tend to screw it up if you think about it too much

04:15:18.880 whereas whereas what's actually happening is the hind parts of your brain like the deep parts of

04:15:25.420 your brain are doing incredible computationally complex things beyond anything AI or even the

04:15:34.820 most advanced supercomputers can do on the fly and like dynamically changing back back and forth

04:15:41.100 and you don't experience that this because it's an adaptive of all part of your brain that's

04:15:47.400 buried in the background by contrast the linguistic like uh actually using language is like only 50

04:15:54.680 000 years old animals have been like running and chasing things for million for millions of years

04:16:00.440 according to the traditional scientific conception whereas like language is that most maybe 50 a few

04:16:07.780 hundred thousand years old and using language to like brute force yourself into computing math

04:16:14.440 which is a very unnatural thing that your mind is doing uh people have been doing that for like

04:16:20.580 maybe a few thousand years and it's like you can feel that it's a very unnatural thing in spite of

04:16:26.400 fact that objectively it's one of the least complicated things you do it's very unnatural

04:16:31.560 because it's a very unnatural part of your mind uh where young i think is completely right and

04:16:39.660 this is like pretty much core to my uh my pagan metaphysics is that most of the things that we

04:16:51.080 consider semi-magical, like pretence, visions, ideals, acts of faith, acts of belief,

04:17:06.940 a child's relation to images of heroes completing actions and then desiring to become a knight

04:17:14.840 themselves uh the gods themselves your relation to the to uh your people's individual gods and uh

04:17:22.220 your your vision of of zeus and saying that's zeus or odin saying that's the highest ideal

04:17:29.580 your vision of four and saying that's why i'm i'm supposed to become all that's happening

04:17:34.120 in a very sub-linguistic part of your brain like the feeling of that's cool is happening

04:17:39.900 a very sublinguist part of your brain and yet it's the judgment involved in like a child looking

04:17:47.000 for a role model or looking for a model to follow is actually very complex like the the cringe

04:17:54.220 instinct the based versus cringe instinct the instinct of like looking for pattern matches

04:18:00.660 that uh that's real that it's authentic that's cool that's uh that's worth following and then

04:18:07.720 like intuiting uh larks and like fake aspects and and uh that wouldn't all those intuitions

04:18:20.220 are incredibly subling sublinguistic yet it's very powerful and if you ever have like a

04:18:26.640 experience of premonition like uh i had a bad motorcycle accident at one point i can remember

04:18:32.820 instinctively uh having this premonition before i left that like this intense feeling of doom and

04:18:39.920 thinking you know i could just go back to and sit in bed all day day which is a very odd thing to

04:18:45.920 think when you're like 2 000 miles from home and like planning to to cover another 500 600 miles

04:18:55.060 that that day already have your motorcycle like kitted up and stuff you know i could just crawl

04:19:00.560 back into my hotel room and sleep all day. All day. Maybe I should, like just that doom-like

04:19:09.200 feeling. I ignored it and I crashed my motorcycle within 20, 30 minutes. But what almost certainly

04:19:18.500 was actually happening is that like some complex, some linguistic part of my brain

04:19:25.000 was intuiting things that were off about the conditions of the atmosphere and the ground.

04:19:32.140 What happened to me is that I was riding a dirt road and the ground actually gave out beneath me.

04:19:38.980 That the earth itself actually failed because of subarctic frost that was releasing in the late spring.

04:19:47.920 um uh you know something that as a motorcyclist you've never in a million years see coming

04:19:56.780 you know something that's not trained yet some back part of my my mind like intuited that there

04:20:03.720 was something off about like a sky and the the smell of the earth and and the way the birds moved

04:20:10.920 or the way the air clung about or just like something odd about the foliage and also is

04:20:16.960 there's something that it intuited that i didn't i did not not and you know if i listened to that

04:20:24.780 instinct i would have like saved myself a half a dozen surgeries uh and all these sub

04:20:33.480 linguistic uh high computational threshold stuff you we experience these a lot like um

04:20:41.460 as intuitions as almost like magic or like psychic experiences it so far no no actual

04:20:52.220 psychic force has been detected it's all just advanced super computation the same way that

04:20:58.160 if a ai was able to tell you exactly where where someone was without seemingly having the

04:21:07.680 information to do that you'd assume that it was able to intuit and guess it via some advanced

04:21:15.940 computation not necessarily that that it had tapped into psychic abilities or something it just

04:21:23.640 computed it by incredibly complex meaning your mind is also so doing it that your mind is also

04:21:30.520 carrying out incredibly complex computations without you knowing it incredibly complex

04:21:36.080 intuitive thinking without you knowing it my contention is that the that the religious

04:21:43.880 practices the stories the uh the religious narratives the deep religious narrative

04:21:50.940 narratives of um your ethnicity here people the kind of stuff that young talked about and like

04:21:58.720 pearson bastardizes i i'm not very fond of jordan jordan pearson but the these deep

04:22:06.400 cultural narratives the older the generally the better uh the reason they're compelling they

04:22:13.240 stay compelling and they appeal to generation upon generation is because they are able to

04:22:21.120 communicate very importantly along that sub-linguistic intuitive judgment level. They're

04:22:29.840 able to communicate with that almost semi-magical intuitive animal hindbrain part of yourself

04:22:38.600 that is able to, that is partly tribalistic and partly more complex than everything else

04:22:48.740 you're working with, and it's been specifically selected for your tribe specifically, for your

04:22:56.140 specific ancestry, for your specific cultural position. Again, we had the example already of

04:23:05.640 the Germanic women who were selected by humans, human sacrifice specifically. The narratives

04:23:13.900 that of the Valkyrie or the ancient medieval Norse princesses are going to be incredibly

04:23:24.200 different than almost every other tribe in the world. You would not get any of the moral lessons

04:23:32.200 or like you would not be able to stimulate that hind part of your brain if you're a northern 0.97

04:23:37.820 European woman by reading The Thousand One Arabian Nights or The Story of Mulan or something

04:23:44.440 from the Indian subcontinent, that all these narratives, all these deep mental tools that

04:23:57.100 these stories are supposed to teach are ethnically specific because your people have been selected

04:24:03.800 specifically and the stories were selected specifically for your people across the hundreds

04:24:10.620 of thousands of years specifically because they carry something culturally important and they're

04:24:17.040 able to and they've been able to survive and they've been consistently deemed important by your

04:24:22.960 your people and this is where i am i'm very nervous of any universal religion but specifically

04:24:33.720 any faith or religious creed that's from an ethnically distinct people. None of the stories

04:24:43.360 in the Bible take place within a thousand kilometers of where my ancestors are from.

04:24:54.760 And they don't take place with a cast of characters that are genetically continuous

04:25:00.960 with my ancestors, at least going back thousands of years. And so I'm very doubtful

04:25:11.240 that the narratives they generate can produce the type of people that my ancestral line is

04:25:23.080 supposed to produce, that they can reproduce the virtues of my people. And indeed, you often see

04:25:30.700 in biblical passages things that directly contradict traditional traditional uh european

04:25:39.280 values for example the biggest one being right in the ten commandments thou shalt not kill

04:25:44.500 that's not a european value uh thou shalt not that's not what it says that is not what it says

04:25:52.080 thou shalt not not murder is another interpret murder interpretation but here's the that's not

04:25:58.020 interpretation is literally what the word means they're fundamentally different god repeatedly

04:26:02.220 commands killing all the time and so the only way to get there is to say that god contradicts

04:26:07.260 himself which is fine if you leave he's not god but again then we're back to storytelling which

04:26:13.480 i'm glad you agree completely with what i said about young you just you demonstrated the point

04:26:17.580 perfectly it has to be one or the other and when you start from there you're right you can't

04:26:25.040 possibly get to where i am but that doesn't mean that where i am is wrong it means that

04:26:28.780 there is a in this case a brand new entirely competing religion that doesn't say it's a

04:26:34.640 religion but the one thing that it does is to erase christianity it's interesting no other

04:26:40.100 religion gets erased by these processes there's a video series that joseph campbell did i think

04:26:47.640 in the 70s early 80s where he was doing some lectures and it was on pbs and i wish we're on

04:26:53.860 youtube so it could be linked because it was very interesting one of them he's going through the

04:26:58.220 myths of various indian you know north american indian uh creation myths and whatnot and then he

04:27:06.180 decides to pivot to christianity and he spends like half an hour deconstructing the apostles creed

04:27:12.680 and mocking it line by line and jeering at it while his audience guffaws and it was a fascinating

04:27:19.700 contrast because every religion in the world he treats with tremendous reverence and then when he 1.00

04:27:27.240 talks about christianity he targets the very heart of the christian faith and says look at how stupid 0.99

04:27:33.640 and backward and ridiculous this is no one of in his vein would ever do that to anything except 0.99

04:27:41.720 for christianity and like this isn't if someone listening hates christianity then it will sound 0.99

04:27:47.560 like I'm just a butthurt Christ cuck. But if you're evaluating the evidence neutrally,

04:27:54.420 you have to admit that it's awfully odd that of every so-called world religion,

04:27:59.140 only one of them is off limits. Only one of them causes all these problems for all the rest.

04:28:06.680 If I knew nothing, if I had never been raised as a Christian, I would look at that and think, 0.96

04:28:12.760 I'm curious about the one that the Jews hate, that everyone says is the problem, that is being destroyed when others are being built up.

04:28:22.040 I would disagree that Christianity is being destroyed. 0.81

04:28:27.520 It is the fastest. 0.74

04:28:29.040 It remains the fastest.

04:28:30.560 You said that an hour ago.

04:28:32.380 You said it was dead in Canada.

04:28:33.980 It was dead in Europe.

04:28:35.360 It's a life support in the U.S.

04:28:36.720 You said that yourself.

04:28:38.120 You don't think it's not being destroyed.

04:28:39.900 You said as much. 0.97

04:28:40.600 no what is the fastest spreading religion religion in the world is in terms of like

04:28:47.760 the quality that that i would look for in a religion yeah it's that's sticking immensely

04:28:55.180 although one can debate how much it it has changed or how much it's just followed through to

04:29:05.260 we can debate how much of it is a logical

04:29:08.500 completion. But if you actually look at

04:29:10.480 the spread

04:29:12.460 of the faith, the adoption,

04:29:14.600 it's at its highest level

04:29:16.300 adoption ever.

04:29:18.980 And I disagree that

04:29:20.560 Do you honestly believe that?

04:29:22.000 Do you think that the African 0.94

04:29:23.780 who is a syncretist and a cannibal 0.92

04:29:26.440 and also a Christian so that 0.92

04:29:28.460 he can get free food from the missionaries,

04:29:30.560 do you think he's a Christian? 1.00

04:29:33.220 Because I don't.

04:29:34.480 I don't think it meets a single definition of Christianity by anyone's standards.

04:29:38.800 But that is the problem.

04:29:40.600 And so one argument would be, well, that's no true Scotsman fallacy, which is why I just mentioned the Apostles' Creed.

04:29:46.260 Christianity literally has a definition, and someone who rejects it definitionally is not Christian, even if they say they are,

04:29:53.660 especially when they're doing it so they can get access to white women and free food, 0.87

04:29:57.080 which is virtually the only reason 1.00

04:29:59.640 that the so-called spread of Christianity

04:30:01.340 as you're describing them

04:30:03.000 that metrics exist today

04:30:04.200 they want to bread God 0.98

04:30:05.660 they don't give a crap about Jesus Christ 0.99

04:30:08.380 they want white people to treat them well 1.00

04:30:10.840 because all these bastards 1.00

04:30:12.400 from all these churches 1.00

04:30:13.420 their own neighborhoods

04:30:15.220 go overseas and give away their grandchildren's money

04:30:18.260 to people who don't care

04:30:19.900 and won't remember in 15 seconds 1.00

04:30:21.640 because they're too stupid 1.00

04:30:22.920 fair enough, that's not inaccurate 1.00

04:30:25.340 however, I'd argue

04:30:26.260 argued that if you look at other 1.00

04:30:31.300 legislatures, other ones that are beset as well, notably Shintoism

04:30:37.820 in Japan has been targeted fairly

04:30:42.160 aggressively by the exact same

04:30:46.460 suspects. The Japanese have often 1.00

04:30:52.460 said explicitly, there are quotes on this, that we would never convert to Christianity

04:30:57.720 because then the Jews would run our country, that Japanese traditional Shintoism and traditional

04:31:07.680 religious belief has been aggressively targeted for decline, and it's consistently religions

04:31:16.840 that protect quality are beset.

04:31:20.140 In Myanmar, the native Buddhists are heavily beset 1.00

04:31:30.700 by the Muslim population coming in, 0.99

04:31:35.240 and you can see the Western media and Western elites

04:31:40.040 siding aggressively with the Muslims

04:31:42.500 against against the native buddhist population and the native buddhists have very similar 1.00

04:31:49.460 complaints to us that they outbraid us that they're violent that they're destroying our 0.93

04:31:54.440 local culture that they want to destroy our local culture and shrines and what you see consistently

04:32:02.820 is

04:32:05.720 is the

04:32:08.380 western elite

04:32:10.440 and western institutions 0.94

04:32:11.620 using various brown 1.00

04:32:14.480 hordes and various 0.73

04:32:15.600 humanitarian claims

04:32:17.480 to attempt to destroy

04:32:19.940 existing complex

04:32:21.380 complex societies and existing

04:32:24.140 traditions of beauty

04:32:26.640 because

04:32:29.220 they can and because

04:32:31.500 basically all coherent ethnically continuous traditions are an immediate challenge to them

04:32:38.440 this is a massive part of the reason why they despise russia so much is because russia 0.65

04:32:43.900 is a white country run by its white people and this is part of the reason they hate the

04:32:51.620 they despise the orthodox church so utterly uh i actually if you have any opinions on the

04:33:00.140 orthodox church it i'd love to hear them just just because i've been hearing one side stop but it's

04:33:05.860 like christianity itself is a slightly odd and alien to me and russian orthodoxy is like

04:33:12.500 odd and alien beyond that i will refer you in your audience to the episode very eastern less

04:33:20.460 orthodox it is the one only denomination that we ever specifically targeted as so bad that we had

04:33:28.440 to say, do literally anything else. The one thing that you need to know about Russian orthodoxy

04:33:35.140 in Russia is that on Easter, 3% of people attend church. It is 100% social LARP, which is no

04:33:45.000 surprise when you learn that Stalin destroyed and hollowed out and then repersonated a different 0.75

04:33:51.600 fake version of Russian orthodoxy for political control. They were stamped out, and when the Jews 0.89

04:33:57.960 took over the Soviet Union, they killed, I think, like 20,000, a huge number of Russian

04:34:03.380 Orthodox priests, and it became illegal, like it, or virtually illegal. We talk about some

04:34:10.560 of the details there. It's been a while since I don't remember. I particularly care beyond

04:34:15.200 seeing what you see online, which is the ravenous advocacy of, well, here's the most based

04:34:22.080 tragic tradition imaginable xyz the reality on the ground is nothing remotely like what we're

04:34:29.420 led to believe i personally believe that much of what we see in the u.s today is being funded by 0.56

04:34:37.320 putin because just like common turn decided 100 years ago let's gin up the blacks against the

04:34:44.300 whites in order to topple the u.s giving american christianity precisely in this moment where 0.98

04:34:51.620 all the churches are fake and gay something alien and so bizarre with zero nexus to any of our race 0.99

04:34:58.860 you mentioned earlier you want a racial church like the church of my people there are virtually 1.00

04:35:04.100 no russians in this country so why the hell is a russian religion making inroads it's alien enough 0.95

04:35:10.620 that long because people just want something that seems ancient that's a good thing i one of the 0.53

04:35:19.080 reasons that i'm lutheran and like the lutheran church is that the liturgy that we use is ancient

04:35:24.540 it's there are hymns that we sing that are 16 1700 years old that's a good thing there's nothing

04:35:32.700 wrong with ancient traditions eastern orthodoxy and you know the different flavors are kind of

04:35:39.580 their own thing but i personally i can't prove it but my personal belief is that almost the entire

04:35:46.380 reason that we see what we see online is deliberate misinformation.

04:35:53.580 And when you look at the Pew, you can Google the Pew study, the Pew Religious Landscape

04:35:59.640 Study.

04:36:00.920 They've been doing longitudinal surveys of every denomination in the U.S. for, I think

04:36:06.020 they've done at least four now.

04:36:08.160 When you look at the actual politics and the actual religious beliefs of Russian organizations

04:36:16.380 orthodoxy, you will see

04:36:18.200 that there are nearly as

04:36:20.200 many as there seem to be online.

04:36:22.040 They are overwhelmingly, by like

04:36:24.020 two-thirds, first or second

04:36:25.700 generation immigrants, which means 1.00

04:36:27.960 that they should all go back, and them should be here in the first place. 1.00

04:36:32.460 And if they're pro-sodomy,

04:36:35.040 they're a 0.87

04:36:35.960 left-wing, rainbow

04:36:38.280 flag church

04:36:39.820 without the rainbow flag. But when you look at their

04:36:42.100 beliefs, it's like

04:36:43.900 they are interested in, by any definition,

04:36:46.380 It wasn't the case there, but it's interesting that it came up because, like you said, I have lots of different agreements with Roman Catholics, with Baptists.

04:36:57.440 The Eastern Orthodox are the only ones that we made a polemic against specifically because they keep coming up.

04:37:07.680 All right. 0.98

04:37:09.780 DM me that specific episode.

04:37:12.060 I will include a link to that as well in the show notes.

04:37:16.380 because this is

04:37:18.980 this is one that's like constantly

04:37:20.980 come up to me and I'm like

04:37:22.940 yeah that sounds cute

04:37:24.340 whatever

04:37:24.680 and having someone

04:37:29.140 actually give the

04:37:30.280 counter argument is

04:37:32.720 very useful you also had the other

04:37:34.900 episode 6,000 years

04:37:36.420 in county I will also link that

04:37:38.680 in the show notes as well

04:37:41.080 I just like them both in chat

04:37:42.940 so we have been

04:37:44.860 going for over four hours, come almost five, which this might be the longest episode of

04:37:55.540 the Narconomicon podcast, but it's been probably about pretty specifically, but probably for

04:38:01.480 you at home, to me, a good opportunity to lay out what I think and gun a very good case

04:38:09.820 out of you uh do you have any other points you want to to hit on before we close out

04:38:15.640 no i appreciate talking to you this isn't my record by far i talked to will spencer the jew

04:38:22.900 who backstabbed me for six and a half hours in one sitting without any breaks so it's it's ironic

04:38:30.160 we despite cutting our podcast short we are able to do it for a while but um i i would very much

04:38:36.940 enjoyed talking to you i hope when people are listening if if i seemed heated that was not the

04:38:40.840 case that was just animation is you know i care but nothing about any of this has been hostile

04:38:47.820 you've said all sorts of things i disagree with completely and for the members of my audience to

04:38:53.920 come and listen i think you can all understand like these are worthwhile conversations i said

04:38:59.140 at the beginning cory and i have tried for many years specifically to reach out which is why i

04:39:03.220 so excited that you dm me cory and i have been trying for years as we said at the beginning

04:39:07.920 specifically trying to reach out to folks like you because there are so many of you

04:39:14.880 you know i've seen if i'm sure some people who follow me who know something about you

04:39:20.800 i don't talk to you at all because especially in the last few months you've said a bunch of

04:39:27.460 extremely hostile things, specifically against Christianity, on your X feed. And I've seen all

04:39:34.100 that stuff go by, and I just ignored it, because one of the other episodes we did was on persuasiveness

04:39:39.800 matters, where I described the fact that there are times where guys are going to say things you just

04:39:46.060 don't agree with, and there's nothing you can do. There's no possibility that I could convince you

04:39:50.800 or anyone else who believes the things you believe about Christianity on X, like, well, here's why 0.85

04:39:56.040 I'm right. And I'm not going to be mad that you said a bunch of stuff that as a Christian,

04:40:01.280 we blast way out of bounds for what Christians can do and what we think anybody can do.

04:40:06.900 The reason I'm talking to you is that if I cannot make the article case to someone like you, 1.00

04:40:13.200 then I'm full of shit and Christianity is fake. It is not a Sunday school religion. 1.00

04:40:19.640 it is nothing that only works inside the four walls of church where everybody gets along fine

04:40:26.200 pretending usually where everybody believes exactly the same thing if christianity is true

04:40:32.340 and god is actually the creator of all things superseding creation the creation message you

04:40:40.340 corrected me then it necessarily follows that as creatures of our creator we have certain duties

04:40:47.240 And those are the first principles from which Stone Choir derived much of our way of teaching,

04:40:54.740 which incidentally is entirely consistent with Scripture.

04:40:57.840 It's not weird for us to talk this way.

04:41:00.480 It's just weird in this moment, which is why we cause so many problems.

04:41:04.760 But one of the things that people hated us the most for and continue to

04:41:08.380 is that we've been good at reaching out to men like you in your audience

04:41:11.640 and saying, yes, you can actually be Christian and not be a traitor. 0.80

04:41:15.620 you can be a christian and not be a retard i think that's pretty important because i don't 0.88

04:41:20.940 think i'm either some of your audience certainly does because definitionally if i'm a christ cock 0.90

04:41:26.560 then i am a race traitor like if if it's a jewish spell that's been cast on us for 0.54

04:41:33.500 1500 years in my case i'm descended from one of the very first christians in europe she was the

04:41:39.600 is Clotilde Clot was the first.

04:41:43.280 So the Franks were Christianized

04:41:44.620 because of my grandma.

04:41:45.920 So if somebody hates Christianity,

04:41:48.500 I'm directly in line

04:41:49.960 of all the worst things

04:41:51.160 that's ever happened.

04:41:52.520 When I look at European history,

04:41:54.880 the history of our race, 0.99

04:41:56.340 I don't see Christianity

04:41:57.500 destroying anything.

04:41:59.100 I don't see being incompatible

04:42:00.600 with any of the values

04:42:01.620 that you and I agree in large part

04:42:03.800 on what should be espoused,

04:42:05.760 what should be honored,

04:42:06.980 and what should be preserved

04:42:08.000 and fought for.

04:42:08.780 and indeed killed for not murdered for killed for the taking of life is sometimes necessary we did

04:42:15.100 two episodes towards the end of the at some point on violence and making peace where we specifically

04:42:21.560 talk about the application of violence because it's an important question for any man if that's

04:42:27.260 as i said the pedochism explicitly prohibits itself particularly for someone like me who is

04:42:34.260 unmarried i don't have kids i have a family and the scope of duty the the pedochism applied is

04:42:41.180 that while taking a life is okay in defense of others but never for yourself which is completely

04:42:47.400 at odds with all of christian history is completely at odds of scripture but that is the battle line

04:42:52.140 today and so it's completely understandable that you would highlight thou shalt not kill

04:42:58.700 as one of the things that's the king james version's fault the king james did that it was a bad

04:43:04.480 translation they screwed it up and it did immeasurable harm because even though i mean

04:43:10.500 when the king james translation was delivered to thou shalt not kill they were executing people

04:43:15.520 left and right nobody thought it meant that they understood that it meant murder but once you have

04:43:20.640 to have doctrine layered on top of the language as you said people are often racist because you

04:43:26.160 interpret it one way and I interpret it another. Who knows what's true? If God is God, then something

04:43:32.080 is actually true, and it's our duty to try to find it. And that's the one thing that Christians 1.00

04:43:37.440 and pagans should be able to agree with. That's entirely consistent with, well, you've said that

04:43:43.260 you don't give any regard to most of the New Testament, but Paul agrees with you. When he was

04:43:48.920 reaching in athens some of the people heard it and actually let me get this

04:43:56.460 scripture i hope you'll forgive me to our conversation i've forgotten i'm forgotten

04:44:02.740 this is two two paragraphs from act 17 so if you want to read it at home later find it

04:44:12.140 this this came to mind because it's exactly the sort of conversation you and i are having

04:44:19.900 exactly the sort of conversation many people say i can't talk to you you're a bad person you're

04:44:25.680 saying these bad things on the internet what's what people say about me like talking if i'm a 0.69

04:44:30.740 jerk then write me off and whatever but to completely isolate someone so that there could

04:44:35.400 be no engagement there's a time and a place but there are things i won't have anything to do with

04:44:40.160 If I'm famous for blocking people, I probably block half your audience.

04:44:43.880 It's nothing personal. 0.98

04:44:44.660 If I see something stupid, I block it. 0.99

04:44:46.580 It's my thing. 0.96

04:44:47.580 There's screenshots going back to like 2017 from 4chan of people bitching that I blocked them.

04:44:54.040 So if I blocked you, nothing personal, nothing special.

04:44:56.920 It's just how I am.

04:44:59.220 I'll just close with this quote from MRAX 17.

04:45:01.680 It's a couple paragraphs, but I think it perfectly encapsulates what we're dealing with here

04:45:06.940 and why I think it's so important to reach out to folks like you.

04:45:10.160 now while paul was waiting for them in athens his spirit was provoked within him as he saw the city

04:45:16.880 was full of idols so he reasoned in the synagogue with the jews and the dogma persons and in the

04:45:22.080 marketplace every day with those who happened to be there some of the epicurean and stoic

04:45:26.880 philosophers also conversed with him and some said what does this babbler wish to say some of

04:45:32.180 your audience i'm sure others he seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities which you thought

04:45:36.800 said because he was preaching jesus and the resurrection and they took him and brought him

04:45:41.480 to the areopagus saying may we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting for you bring

04:45:46.300 some strange teachings to our ears we wish to know therefore what these things mean now all the

04:45:51.400 athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time and nothing except for telling or

04:45:56.460 hearing something new which is pretty much sub-second accent today so paul standing in the

04:46:02.600 midst of the areopagus said men of athens i perceive that in every way you are very religious

04:46:08.060 for as i passed along and observed the objects of your worship i found also an altar with this

04:46:13.500 inscription to the unknown god well therefore you worship as unknown this i proclaim to you

04:46:19.220 the god who made the world and everything in it being a lord of heaven and earth does not live

04:46:24.300 in temples made by man nor is he served by human hands as though he needed anything since he himself

04:46:30.440 gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.

04:46:34.040 And he made for one man every nation of mankind

04:46:36.580 to live on the face of the earth,

04:46:38.800 having determined allotted places

04:46:40.360 and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

04:46:42.460 that they should seek God

04:46:43.880 and perhaps find their way towards him and find him.

04:46:47.200 Yet actually he is not far from each of us.

04:46:52.500 That's where I'm coming from.

04:46:54.420 And that's why I didn't get mad when you said that stuff

04:46:56.600 that I found offensive,

04:46:58.020 I'm sure people who saw it found offensive.

04:46:59.640 of arguing would do no good picking a fight and you don't need to apologize or anything

04:47:04.900 i'm not this isn't a call out i'm trying to explain to people who know me and also know

04:47:09.460 if you're posting why would i talk to this guy when paul was waiting in athens his spirits was

04:47:14.540 provoked within him as he saw the city he was full of my spirit was provoked when i saw what

04:47:19.960 you said and i kept my mouth shut because what good could i possibly do if i get butthurt when 0.82

04:47:25.640 every time someone says something blasphemous of god then i am the guy who gets a bat butt hurt

04:47:31.900 i don't think that god is weak and my faith is weak when an opportunity arises i'm willing to

04:47:38.580 give a defense of my faith he didn't go to the otter area because they invited him because they

04:47:44.000 loved hearing new stuff as he said like they're talking about new stuff all the time and that's

04:47:48.140 what they did in Athens no work they sat around talking and see all the different flavors of

04:47:52.560 philosophers. And incidentally, Paul was very well versed in Greek philosophy.

04:47:59.640 Many of his arguments are directly derived from their approach. There's virtually nothing

04:48:04.620 in the way that he argued that was Jewish. The arguments that he made, nothing yet. The text

04:48:10.300 obviously came from a Jewish past, and he was famously, he said he was the Hebrew of Hebrews.

04:48:15.780 And yet his words and his thinking and his approach was Greek, because that was the culture

04:48:21.840 that he lived in, despite not being racially Greek. It's necessary for Christians to be able

04:48:28.120 to live in their faith, in the face of people who think that we're idiots. Because if we can't do 1.00

04:48:34.420 that, then maybe you're right. Maybe we are idiots if all we have is just getting mad when someone 1.00

04:48:39.600 disagrees. That's not the kind of Christian I am. That's not the kind of Christian I want to see 1.00

04:48:44.080 anybody be. And so I'm embarrassed when I see the things that people in the churches are doing,

04:48:48.160 because every time they fly a rainbow flag or they denounce what God says, and men like

04:48:54.200 your audience look to that, they're chased away from the church. Because if that's the church,

04:49:01.660 why would anyone have anything to do with it? I hate that. I actually want all of your audience

04:49:08.980 and you to be Christian. I think it's really important. I think it's the most important thing,

04:49:13.560 just as Christ commands in the passage that you described. And because I think it's that

04:49:17.800 important i will do anything to save my family and my people and i believe in saving the christian 0.99

04:49:23.000 faith it's part and parcel of saving the white race and the fact that this is such a minority

04:49:29.120 opinion i think is the to me that's absolute explanatory power for everything that we've 0.88

04:49:36.200 seen for the past couple hundred years the romanovs were killed because they were christian

04:49:42.560 them because they were monarchs now as i said i'm not a fan of roman eastern russian orthodoxy 0.92

04:49:47.640 nevertheless they were killed because they were a diamond the people trying to kill us don't 0.53

04:49:55.720 differentiate between different types of white races they don't differentiate between different 0.90

04:50:00.220 types of christianity as you said they don't even differentiate between christian between

04:50:04.940 non-christian religions that do provide any degree of social cohesion because ultimately

04:50:11.620 burning down the entire world is part and parcel with what they're doing, which is something that 0.98

04:50:17.240 God himself says in the New Testament. He calls these people the enemies of God and of all 0.82

04:50:21.660 mankind. We see this every day, and this is our battle. And we started Stone Choir in an attempt

04:50:27.800 to make sure there'd be a Christian voice in the mix, didn't want to try to run anything,

04:50:33.420 didn't want to try to start a church or be in charge, just to make an argument in long form,

04:50:38.160 you know nearly five hours because we felt it was important and for me it was worth getting

04:50:43.740 docs and it was worth being unemployable now and everybody hating me because i value my people

04:50:50.760 and i'm sure that most of your audience is white guys like me i want everyone to be christian

04:50:57.080 regardless of their race but your audience is overwhelming me will be my people and i take

04:51:04.160 that personally. And I think that's Christian. And to be able to explain these things in a way

04:51:11.760 that I hope conveys a sense of honor and duty, even when it is, you described the commingling,

04:51:20.940 I don't know the exact word you use, but the coexistence of these pagan values and these

04:51:26.480 Christian values, I'll just close. I don't see that at all. I don't see any daylight whatsoever 0.94

04:51:32.540 between my christian values which i try to embody as best i can and the things that you're

04:51:39.960 exploring as virtues with a couple of narrow obvious exceptions that anyone can understand

04:51:44.880 where we disagree fair enough we are on the same team we're on the same team because we are our

04:51:52.360 skin is our uniform and the people that hate us that's all they see and i think we need to work

04:51:59.880 together and try to at least coexist, and we need to save our people so that I can continue telling

04:52:07.400 people that, you know, Jesus died for you and God created you, and that's why you should be Christian.

04:52:13.660 Thank you so much. I will admit I was just a little surprised when you agreed to appear on

04:52:23.620 the show just because I can be quite belligerent on AXA. Part of that is just the tone of different

04:52:32.040 works. Part of that is that if I get grumpy at something, I need to tweet about it. But no,

04:52:38.920 thank you so much for coming on in spite of, I'm sure you will get comments for it.

04:52:48.760 And you listeners at home, I am linking dead the Stone Choir episodes we discussed today in the show notes.

04:52:58.680 You can follow Woe on Twitter.

04:53:01.980 I will have a direct link to his account. 0.89

04:53:07.300 Stone Choir is an excellent resource if you are interested in Christianity from a non-gay race communist perspective. 0.81

04:53:17.900 They do a stockingly admirable job of expressing something that would be recognizable to anyone from 1945 or before as Christianity. 0.96

04:53:31.280 And if you're interested in paganism, Norse paganism, the pagan tradition, etc., I will be having more episodes related to that and more deep dives into the various texts related to classical paganism.

04:53:53.720 I'm going to be doing some readings of classical Scaldic poems and others, and doing readings of various modern pagan texts, Young's Wotan, but also some other interesting ones you probably won't have heard of before.

04:54:15.200 uh whoa thank you again so much for agreeing to do this and for going five hours i can't believe

04:54:23.700 this is gonna be longest episode so far and good it was my pleasure and you listeners out there uh

04:54:33.320 stay glorious

04:54:45.200 Thank you.

04:55:15.200 Thank you.

04:55:45.200 Thank you.

04:56:15.200 Thank you.

04:56:45.200 Thank you.

04:57:15.200 Thank you.

04:57:45.200 Thank you.

Anarchonomicon - March 05, 2026

Ep28 Stone Choir, Christianity, Paganism w⧸ Woe to those who Dwell on the Earth

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