On today's show, John Avlon and Sarah Downey take a deep dive into Mitt Romney's deep-rooted distrust of his former presidential rival, Donald Trump. They discuss how the former Republican presidential candidate views Trump, and what it means for the future of the Republican Party.
00:00:00.000The level of just profound personal animus that Romney holds for other leading lights in the Republican Party.
00:00:09.060This is just a few highlights. Ron DeSantis. There's just no warmth at all.
00:00:13.280And that's one of the nicer quotes. Newt Gingrich, a smug know-it-all, smarmy and too pleased with himself.
00:00:19.040Santorum, sanctimonious, severe, strange. Rick Perry, Republicans must realize that we have to have someone who can complete a sentence.
00:00:27.080Ted Cruz, frightening, scary, a demagogue. Huckabee, a huckster, a caricature of a for-profit preacher.
00:00:35.120Bobby Jindal, a twit. John Kasich, lack of thoughtfulness, lack of attentiveness, ego.
00:00:40.560No wonder he and Chris Christie spark. With friends like that, I am eager to know whether this distrust, this distaste for the leaders in his party,
00:00:52.880was it always in him or did Trump really catalyze a sense of anger and frustration?
00:01:01.500Well, I think that what's important to know about this quote is some of them are things that he told me over the course of those two years.
00:01:08.980Some of them are from his journals dating back a decade, right?
00:01:13.080And so what that shows is that for a long time, he has had a sense that the Republican base gravitates toward figures who he finds unimpressive, to say the least.
00:03:09.980I mean, the Republicans are now in this, you know, doom loop of of crazy and absurdity, you know, deep dive, you know, into the back benches to come up with somebody who would be acceptable and acceptable in a party that has been, you know, enabling and empowering the legislative terrorists for years.
00:03:25.660I mean, this has been a long time coming.
00:03:29.080What you saw yesterday was Donald Trump facing all of the legal problems that he is facing, reasserted himself as the apex predator of the Republican Party.
00:03:39.480He doesn't have the clout to get somebody like Jim Jordan elected as speaker, but he certainly has the clout that he can destroy anyone who has taken a stand against him on the big lie.
00:03:50.340And so what you are seeing is, in fact, the support for the big lie, support for overturning the 2020 election has now become, you know, not just a litmus test.
00:04:01.760It has become a life or death requirement in the Republican Party, because Donald Trump has made it clear that if you did not sign on to what he attempted to do on January 6th, that that he will kneecap you.
00:05:33.060And I think you're going to see a great leader.
00:05:35.500I think the lobbyists are doing everything they can right now to generate, as they did last night in our meeting.
00:05:42.560You saw some of the old guard trying to rally support for a bogus writing type situation.
00:05:50.840And then that's why we forced the vote on a on an actual voice vote, a roll call vote.
00:05:57.200So people had to stand up and then you saw everybody gathering around him at the podium.
00:06:02.100And so I think we are on our way to electing a speaker today at noon.
00:06:07.920I think, Congressman, my biggest question right now is whoever your next leader was going to be.
00:06:12.540And if it's Mike Johnson, which appears there's momentum to that case, that person will have 23 days until the government is set to shut down again.
00:06:20.480He has committed to stand alone appropriations bills of which I believe your chamber still has eight to pass.
00:06:26.980The Senate is just starting to move on its first three.
00:06:29.560There's no way to reconcile 12 bills in 23 days.
00:06:33.940And you guys don't support a continuing resolution.
00:06:36.120So how does the government not shut down?
00:06:40.560You know, where was everybody yelling when we took off the entire month of August and two weeks into September when we knew September 30th was the end of our fiscal year?
00:06:49.260You know what's going to have to happen?
00:06:50.880Some of these guys are going to have to get out of bed before noon and come down here and work.
00:06:55.360That's what's going to have to happen.
00:07:12.120You know, we roll out of here, we set a meeting for 10 o'clock, and then we cater in a hearty lunch at taxpayer expense, and then we leave by 2 o'clock and we walk out with our Brooks Brothers suit, you know, unbuttoned and our jacket thrown over our shoulder and our tie is undone.
00:07:30.480And we say to America, we've been working hard.
00:08:56.500The great crew in Denver and, of course, my own crack production team.
00:08:59.820Just to make sure everybody knows what's going on, as we were leaving the 6 o'clock show last night, Jake Sherman, because I get Mo and Grace and the team in the engine room are feeding me stuff nonstop.
00:09:12.940Jake Sherman had reported they were going to have the presentations, but it looks like they were not going to vote.
00:09:17.900They actually made a decision, called it Audible, and started to vote.
00:09:23.920It became very evident there was a consensus around Mike Johnson, who's a very devout Christian from Louisiana, has been one of the mainstays on the Judiciary Committee and other investigations.
00:09:37.440And very close to the Matt Gaetz's and Stefanik's.
00:09:58.100Because the people that wanted to make changes here, the people that wanted to take on the unit party, the people that wanted to take on the cartel, want to get on with this and stay and go through the process last night.
00:10:11.600You know, have people drop out as the votes went on, get around a designee and then go to the floor.
00:10:17.900Go to the floor, call the Democrats and go to the floor, whether it's 10 or 11 o'clock at night.
00:10:35.460Remember, I've said the specter of McCarthy.
00:10:38.740And by McCarthy, we mean the uniparty, D.C. uniparty elite, the cartel.
00:10:46.080The specter of McCarthy was all over all of this.
00:10:50.100Whether it was Scalise or Jordan or even Emmer.
00:10:54.020However, the specter of McCarthy, what they wanted was a return of McCarthy.
00:11:00.580They wanted to show that this could not get done and that McCarthy with only, you know, the hard six against him and then the heart of the magnificent six in January.
00:11:07.800And then the hard eight was the most, you know, the one that had the most of the conference and back, including the old bulls.
00:11:18.600McCarthy actually was in competition last night and got to 43 votes.
00:11:26.360And Gates will walk through the detail because the quarterbacking on this and the strategy on back of this last night was nothing short of magnificent to pull this off against all the old bulls.
00:11:35.760Remember, this is still a fight about appropriations, about money, about money and power.
00:11:41.460And the existing cartel is just not going to sit there, just not going to sit there and say, oh, the deplorables are here.
00:12:24.720This fight is, quite frankly, between the citizens of this country and particularly those citizens that have engaged and said, we are on a – Charlie, Sykes is wrong there.
00:13:16.020This was McHenry, the McCarthy McHenry.
00:13:18.320And I hate to say it, even the Jim Jordan element – yes, Jim Jordan.
00:13:22.720I hate to say that – element closed the floor last night, blocked it so they couldn't go to vote last night, and then blocked it so it couldn't be 9 o'clock this morning but to noon.
00:13:32.580You give them as much time as possible.
00:13:34.120And trust me, they're over there right now in the Capitol thinking up every plot they can do to stop Johnson from taking the speakership today.
00:13:42.780President Trump has come out and supported Johnson.
00:13:44.800Tom Massey just came out, who was a hardcore Jordan backer, just came out and supported him.
00:13:49.860The support's coming from every corner except for the hardcore McCarthyites who are dug in here.
00:18:45.060And you down in the South know what's going on now.
00:18:48.740Now, CNN, Zachary Wolf over at CNN has written, quite frankly, CNN, Collinson and Zachary Wolf writing for CNN actually understand what this fight is about more than most.
00:19:00.900And he's got, he put a piece up there that this is about taking on the deep state and the administrative state.
00:19:06.200This fight that we're having right now is about reorienting the House to take that on.
00:19:12.660As Trump's second term, we're building the farm team right now with Paul Dance.
00:19:34.240The House piece, Trump's return as president with now a team being built by Russ Fote and those guys.
00:19:40.240Mike Davis and his understanding with Mike Davis of Gorsuch and these others who are deconstruction of the administrative state from the Supreme Court to the federal judiciary of Trump's picks.
00:19:51.560Mike Davis, how big a deal is this about Mike Johnson?
00:19:55.080Mike Johnson will be outstanding as the next Speaker of the House.
00:20:34.340And, you know, knowing him on these committees and people around him and seeing this, he is infuriated by the administrative state.
00:20:41.600And he's particularly infuriated by the deep state element of it.
00:20:44.560He's disgusted with what DOJ's turned into.
00:20:47.740He's disgusted with what's happened to the FBI.
00:20:49.620He's particularly, not just as an institution, but he's really disgusted about Merrick Garland and this crowd over there, Lisa Monaco and this crowd over there at DOJ.
00:21:47.600And I think he he's the guy you want to go in and help drain the swamp and take out the administrative state and hold them accountable.
00:21:56.920I want to talk about tech here because people the inside baseball in a lot of this is the control that the Wall Street oligarchs and big tech have over the imperial capital.
00:22:07.840And this came out really in the beloved Jim Jordan, you know, and we know from our audience, right?
00:22:47.640I was a loud and vocal critic of Kevin McCarthy and Jim Jordan for many years because of their position on tech.
00:22:55.420I think that they were too cozy with Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple, those trillion-dollar big tech monopolies to have gatekeeping power over information and in commerce.
00:23:06.720They have the ability to control what we say, what we hear.
00:23:10.600They can throw the outcome of elections like we saw with Facebook and Zuckbox in the 2020 election.
00:23:17.660They have too much power, and there's a coalition of populist conservatives on the right along with old-school traditional liberals who don't like that these tech oligarchs,
00:23:28.080these trillion-dollar big tech monopolists have that gatekeeping power, right?
00:23:34.820And I think you're going to see Mike Johnson is more in our camp, that we should hold these trillion-dollar big tech monopolists accountable for their bad acts.
00:24:03.960And there's a bill right now by Senator Mike Lee, certainly no liberal, that can break up Google's online advertising monopoly, which is the key to all of this.
00:24:16.000If they didn't control online advertising and the billions of dollars in revenue that they get from that, they wouldn't have this gatekeeping power.
00:24:22.600So I hope Mike Johnson, as the Speaker of the House, can have the House team up with Senator Mike Lee and let's get this legislation passed to break up Google's online advertising monopoly.
00:24:38.700Look, there's nothing perfect in this world.
00:24:41.720And, you know, we weren't going to end up with a perfect speaker unless you had Trump in an interim, and that clearly wouldn't happen.
00:24:47.680President Trump's fully occupied with running for president and trying to sort this mess out.
00:24:52.600Johnson's not going to be the type of, you know, radical budget deficit hawks that I am and many of the people on the show.
00:25:03.240But I think we're going to get wins in many other places.
00:25:05.780As you would look out, what are the types of aggressive moves you would like to see on the administrative state, the border, other things that are kind of in Mike Johnson's more of his wheelhouse?
00:25:17.880Well, I would say I put out a Fox News opinion piece on the appropriations process for Kevin McCarthy, and the same holds true for Mike Johnson.
00:25:26.600I think Mike Johnson needs to push very hard.
00:25:29.740Remember, the House controls the power of the purse.
00:25:31.520If the House doesn't appropriate the money, then it doesn't get appropriated.
00:25:36.840You need the president to sign the appropriation.
00:25:39.380And I would say this, that the American people are tired of out-of-control spending.
00:25:45.040They're tired of the resulting inflation that makes it so hard for people to make ends meet every month with high gas prices, high food prices.
00:25:55.580And the interest rates are out of control, making home ownership out of reach for too many working-class, everyday Americans.
00:26:01.640And I think what Mike Johnson and House Republicans need to do with this appropriations fight is try to bring spending back to at least pre-COVID levels, right?
00:26:13.600This is the diet we're going to put the federal government on.
00:26:16.980And if the Senate Democrats and the Biden White House don't want to go on that diet, then guess what?
00:26:23.760We're going to shut down the government until they decide to go on that diet.
00:26:28.340And they also need to include crucial appropriations writers in this appropriations process to say we're not going to spend money, for example, on transgender surgeries for kids and prisoners.
00:26:40.880We're not going to have a politicized and weaponized justice system.
00:26:44.520If we do, they're going to lose all federal funding.
00:26:46.980If you're not going to be able to go after major presidential candidates on or before the presidential election, we haven't had an indictment of a former president or a leading presidential candidate in our history.
00:26:58.280Why are we starting now with this lawfare and election interference?
00:27:01.560There are so many things that the Republicans can do.
00:27:04.380And I encourage Mike Johnson's team to look at my Fox News opinion piece on this.
00:27:25.580You can see the catastrophic consequences of that all over.
00:27:29.500How tough do you think they come in on that, Mike Davis?
00:27:33.280I think people are so tired of Democrats complaining about the stolen election.
00:27:40.140The Democrats, the Hillary Clinton still claims the 2016 election was stolen.
00:27:44.820I think people are tired of hearing the Democrats complain about this.
00:27:49.920It's not that, you know, people complaining about a stolen election are ignoring the fact that the world is on fire under President Biden.
00:27:58.020We have chaos and war around the world, our economies in shambles.
00:28:02.260I think people are ready for some more Trump mean tweets to put President Trump back in office instead of having instead of having chaos and despair around the world.