00:02:28.160First up, however, John, I want to pick your brains on something specific,
00:02:32.220And that is the dance, the geopolitical dance that is taking place right now between Canada and the EU bloc.
00:02:45.520A couple of weeks ago, to great fanfare, and apparently to the surprise of Prime Minister Carney himself, Ursula von der Leyen, the president, the chief of the European Commission, the EU's Politburo,
00:03:08.220announced that they were going to start talks with Canada
00:03:13.340to create a new relationship under the title of associate member,
00:03:19.300which doesn't exist as far as the EU rules exist.
00:03:25.380But of course, that doesn't stop them from creating a special relationship
00:05:35.860What's your fundamental takeaway about this news that was leaked to Politico today about the walking back of the terminology?
00:05:46.280Sure. I think you're right about the geopolitical pivot.
00:05:49.080Carney, after all, don't forget, went to China when tensions started to rise with Donald Trump.
00:05:53.920And that was a spectacular example of a geopolitical shift.
00:05:58.500As far as the European Union is concerned, yes, it's true.
00:06:00.740Many people remarked at the time that there's no such thing as an associate member.
00:06:05.460And moreover, in the European founding treaties, it makes it clear that only European countries can be members of the European Union.
00:06:12.680It doesn't say anything about associate members because that concept doesn't exist.
00:06:15.720So it's true that to extend some sort of membership, associate or otherwise, to Canada would be incompatible with the European treaties.
00:06:25.500The other problem is that, I think from the Canadian point of view, is that the European Union typically has association agreements with Eastern European countries.
00:06:37.860Famously, the events in Ukraine which led to the 2014 revolution started in 2013 when the then-President Yanukovych delayed his signature on the association agreement that Ukraine was due to sign.
00:06:55.340And the European Union has similar agreements with Moldova and has been trying on and off to have them with Armenia and Georgia.
00:07:02.180So the notion of associate membership, or at least an associate agreement, is on the table.
00:07:08.220But of course, the situation of a country like Ukraine back in 2013, or Georgia, or Moldova, or whatever now, is radically different from that of Canada.
00:07:17.420Normally, when you sign an association agreement with the EU, you have to be an unbelievably goody-goody.
00:07:22.700You have to sit at the front of the class and put your hand up all the time and do what you're told.
00:07:26.280You have to reform this and that. You have to have free competition in your various markets.
00:07:31.500You have to do all the things which Brussels tells you to do.
00:07:35.060For instance, with Serbia, which is a candidate country, they're always telling the Serbs what to do in their foreign policy.
00:07:40.540So it's very much a one-way relationship.
00:07:44.100So Brussels tells everyone else what to do.
00:07:46.700And I can't really see how Canada could possibly fit into that schema, because obviously Canada is a highly developed country, as highly developed as most of the most prosperous European countries.
00:07:57.960So it wouldn't fit into that schema at all.
00:07:59.520you can also compare it uh do you want me to if you want me to stop i will no you're waving your
00:08:05.580pen you said you'd wave your pen i was just going to say that was there are two countries that was
00:08:09.800the camera team okay there are two countries that have let's say are in a perhaps similar position
00:08:15.600to to canada and and those countries are norway and switzerland they both have various types of
00:08:22.360agreement with the european union in particular they have access to the single market but you
00:08:28.060have to pay for that. You have to pay. They have to pay into the European Union's coffers.
00:08:32.500And I very much doubt whether any of this has been gone into in Canada, apart from anything
00:08:37.940else, apart from paying into the budget, you have to conform your own standards and regulations to
00:08:44.620that single market. So I suspect that this is, I mean, I think this was implicit in your question,
00:08:51.300that this has been cobbled together. And, you know, there was a lot of euphoria a couple of
00:08:56.500weeks ago when he, when Mark Carney went to Strasbourg, but that indeed it hasn't really
00:09:00.740been thought through. And I suspect it would encounter, I don't know Canadian politics
00:09:04.520particularly well, but I suspect it would encounter at least some opposition from within
00:09:08.240the Canadian political spectrum. In answer to your question, I think what is guiding
00:09:14.960both, this is my instinct, right? I think what is guiding the European Union and Canada
00:09:21.600here especially because this if this is being made up on the hoof um and it's being done
00:09:28.780effectively for mediatic consumption i go further and suggest it's an it's an audience it's an
00:09:36.360audience of one it's the occupant of the white house i sort of get the impression looking at
00:09:41.000this that this is a shot across the bows to the president to to america to say look okay so we're
00:09:46.980not as strong as the united states that's fine and even together we're not going to be as strong
00:09:52.160as the united states however we do have alternatives um and if you want us to go off to
00:09:57.800especially canada saying to saying to america if you want us to peel off from our historic affinity
00:10:04.680and close relationship on so many levels with the united states we don't want to do this but we do
00:10:11.420have alternatives and we could sort of allow ourselves to fall furthermore into the orbit of
00:10:18.480the of the European Union and how would you like that that's John Lachlan how I see the whole thing
00:10:24.460and I'm more confirmed in that idea that this is basically a warning shot to President Trump by the
00:10:32.520fact that they don't know what they're doing and they clearly don't know what know what they're
00:10:36.420doing and they're pivoting on the terminology and by and by effect the the theatrics of it all
00:10:42.680within a couple of weeks um but it is interesting to see i think canada allowing itself to do this
00:10:50.520in a in a sense um i say that but it's interesting that canada would allow itself to do this because
00:10:57.700canada's position here is more pivotable uh it has two different worlds it could very closely
00:11:04.340be aligned to the american world and the european world the european the whole european project
00:11:10.220right from the beginning was was set up as a foundation to be to some extent a counterbalance
00:11:16.800to the power and might of the of the united states so that there is all you know it's always been
00:11:23.100trying fixing its muscles to be that alternative to the u.s to be stronger together but canada here
00:11:29.940it can actually legitimately play it both ways.
00:11:34.580Just give me your reaction, if you wouldn't mind, to that possibility.
00:11:37.220I strongly agree with the first part of your statement,
00:11:40.440that Canada is showing Trump that it has other alternatives.
00:11:44.300I mentioned in my first answer the trip to China.
00:11:47.300That was an even more spectacular example of the same thing,
00:11:50.280Carney going to China to show that he could have other relationships
00:11:54.380and so on, independently, obviously, of Washington.
00:11:57.440However, I don't agree with you that the European Union was created as a counterweight to the United States.
00:12:03.200I mean, it's a long story. We probably haven't got time to go into it.
00:12:06.140But the European Union was created back in the post-war period in the late 40s, early 50s, the first European communities, very much under American patronage.
00:12:16.460And from the American point of view, and indeed from the European point of view, the greatest pro-Europeans, the people who, you know, the list is very long.
00:12:27.240But the people who have really made the history of the European Union have all been confirmed Atlanticists.
00:12:33.680And all American presidents, with the exception of the present one, have been very strongly committed to the Atlantic alliance.
00:12:42.760It's true that in France, where I live, it's often said that the European Union is intended to be a third power between the great giants, China, America, and so on.
00:12:52.040But the reality is that the European Union is completely subjugated to the United States and has been ever since its creation.
00:12:59.860And indeed, this subjugation has increased over time.
00:13:03.440In the existing treaty, which was signed at Lisbon in 2009, the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,
00:13:10.440the foreign policy of the European Union has to be compatible with that of NATO.
00:13:15.360NATO foreign policy doesn't have to be compatible with that of the European Union.
00:13:19.260So it's a one way street. And, you know, we only have to look at the way the Russian war is being prosecuted to see that.
00:13:27.280I mean, of course, there are differences now under Trump. But essentially, the Europeans, their strategy is to sit tight and hope that Trump goes away and hope that America returns to form under, you know, the previous.
00:13:40.280That's absolutely the case. Yeah, that's that's that is my reading of it.
00:14:12.960Look, we do have to go on. I want to come back to, however, because it's fascinating what you say here. It is absolutely true that the European Union, right from the beginning, right from the coal and steel community, what have you, has been Atlanticist, which is basically short code for, and you teed this up perfectly, mentioning NATO, this is the political arm of the old Cold War mentality.
00:14:41.820The one reason why I say that there was an idea of being a counterbalance to America, the most, the country that was most, and of course, China, you say, you mentioned the three blocks here, the EU straddling the middle between the US and China.
00:14:56.140Of course, sort of 70 or so years ago, China wasn't really even in the consideration.
00:16:07.640A contrast of that with the fact that America right now, even at present interest rates, is paying an annualized $1.2 trillion simply on servicing the national debt, which is $40 trillion and growing.
00:16:26.660And most economists believe that that figure is going to reach $2 trillion by the end of this year, simply in interest rate, in debt repayments, not paying down the principal.
00:16:39.460So as Steve Bannon himself says repeatedly on this show, we are heading into times of economic turbulence.
00:16:48.880Therefore, if you have savings in dollars, especially in dollars, you might want to be thinking about what you can do to protect yourself against those times of turbulence.
00:17:00.500And historically, in the last three or four thousand years of human history, that safe harbor has always been gold.
00:17:08.580That's why Philip Patrick and his team, the world experts in helping and advising just ordinary, regular Americans in buying gold, moving cash savings into gold, standing by, waiting to field your course.
00:17:26.120And if you tell him what your situation is, he'll talk you through what your options are, including but not limited to transferring an old IRA into an IRA in physical gold.
00:17:38.520Now, that is definitely something to be thinking about.
00:17:41.060And as I've said before on the show, if I were if I were American, if I were in the United States, I would have already have done this months ago.
00:21:11.120well this is quite astonishing as you point out that the european media which does have
00:21:24.020a tendency to march in lockstep especially on these big picture issues is simultaneously
00:21:31.120in your words quoting you here simultaneously broadcasting the same docudramas about war
00:21:37.000with Russia. And you ask rhetorically whether it's coordinated. So look, for our largely
00:21:42.920American audience, what do you in your perch there in France, what's the message that you
00:21:48.620would feed back to them about the level of the propaganda that is taking place here in
00:21:54.640continental Europe, which is supposed to be America's great ally on the world stage?
00:22:01.220Well, the point I was making is that that French docudrama, which you've just broadcasted
00:22:06.420a clip of, came out very soon after a similar British docudrama. In the British case, the actors
00:22:14.240were in fact real politicians who were acting, but in the one you've just shown, the French one,
00:22:18.620those were professional actors. But the basic format is the same. And this is surely very
00:22:24.000surprising because, okay, people copy off each other, but I don't believe that the French
00:22:29.660television producers are necessarily copying what they do on Sky News in Britain or whatever.
00:22:35.400And instead, I think, and we can see this also from communiques published by political leaders, it happens very frequently, and again I've posted on this, that European political leaders, sometimes 10 or 20 of them at a time, publish posts with the same language, with the same words.
00:22:52.820And these posts are very obviously coordinated.
00:22:55.780They clearly have a mechanism for coordinating these posts.
00:22:59.880The example I, the most example I, yes, you've got it on the screen, is, I think, I can't see what that one is.
00:23:14.920And apart from the fact that they're all saying the same thing, they're all using the same words,
00:23:19.580the use in this case of that word is very surprising.
00:23:22.320because if Russia had somehow put a drone to blow up a Ukrainian aircraft, which was transporting
00:23:29.440arms to Ukraine, I don't see why that's a hybrid attack. That's just a straightforward military
00:23:34.480attack. But they've used this word hybrid, no doubt, for their own reasons, partly because
00:23:38.800they want to extend the concept of war into all kinds of things. You know, every time a train
00:23:44.900derails in Europe now, it's the Russians who've sabotaged it. And so given that there is this0.98
00:23:51.300coordination, this very clear coordination. And the Leipzig thing is not the first time.
00:23:56.660You know, when Marco Rubio met Lavrov shortly after the Trump administration took office in
00:24:02.900Riyadh in March, I think it was 2025, he tweeted, the ball is now in Russia's court. And that phrase,
00:24:09.620the ball in Russia's court, was picked up by Kirstammer, Ursula von der Leyen, Friedrich Merz,
00:24:13.720and all the rest of it. So clearly, these are coordinated. Well, in a way, you say, okay, fine,
00:24:18.720they've got a coordinated communication strategy, these European leaders. I personally think it's
00:24:23.240rather unimpressive if everyone says the same thing. But there we are. That's what they've got.
00:24:27.160But what I'm flagging up is the fact that this coordination appears also to be being enacted
00:24:34.080also between media. The media, of course, are theoretically independent. And I think that the
00:24:39.300likelihood is that that is what's happening, that there is some sort of initiative. We know that NATO
00:24:44.020has relationships with journalists. They have, just as, of course, Hollywood has had relationships
00:24:51.120with the American military industrial complex and the secret services for many decades.
00:24:58.100In the same way, NATO does have, we know this is a fact, it's been proven in various national
00:25:03.880parliaments around Europe. So I suspect that that's what's going on here. I suspect that the
00:25:08.360The NATO structure somehow is encouraging not just these communiques from politicians, but also, as I say, coordinated action by the media, the television in this case.
00:25:20.120So you're suggesting here coordination.
00:25:22.240And, you know, this is, you know, this isn't a conspiracy theory.
00:25:37.100And your conjecture is then, the thesis of the case, is that there's a coordination taking place between the EU governmental level, the nation state governmental level, the media and NATO.
00:25:59.220Well, we have got some elements of proof.
00:26:00.880I can't remember the exact details now, but I work for a Dutch political party and one of the MPs established a couple of months ago, about six months ago, that NATO does have relationships with journalists.
00:26:13.300OK, they could be informal, they could be, but I'm sure there are also monetary relationships.
00:26:18.420I'm sure, I mean, you know, I'm absolutely certain.
00:26:20.580And we know this in the British media, for example.
00:26:23.460We know that there are outlets in the British media who are essentially spokesmen for the security services.
00:26:31.200If you see anyone in The Guardian or The Telegraph who's a diplomatic editor or a defence editor,
00:26:36.820that means they ring up their pals in the Ministry of Defence or in MI6 or whatever, and they get fed stories.
00:34:22.680that Giorgia Meloni, the prime minister,
00:34:27.680is the paladin of nationalism in Europe.
00:34:32.120um there's certainly her it's certainly her her public image that she encourages very strongly
00:34:38.280i sort of think that this government is pretty much the draggy beast um in action but in terms0.98
00:34:44.920of the message they're pumping out in social media it's very um different so many italians
00:34:51.240on the right however and i notice i get this on a daily basis don't want to hear this point
00:34:56.520It's just basically either you're pro-Georgia or you're obviously some kind of subversive communist.
00:35:03.680And that's basically what we've had for the last three years.
00:35:06.500And if you try to point out, well, actually, she's not really doing anything on the invasion, nothing productive.
00:35:12.040She spent $880 million building these asylum centers in Albania.
00:35:17.680I think they had 111 invaders were sent back on an expenditure of 880 million.0.88
00:35:27.080But, you know, she pushes out the press release and everyone who follows her on Twitter is that Georgia is perfect.
00:35:34.100She's the hero. And they didn't want to hear anything else.
00:35:37.320That argument now is slightly less easy for them to sustain because there are a number of things happening in Italian politics.
00:35:46.080One of them is the rise of General Vanacci, who is, you know, whether he's actually on the, I mean, I say that he's on the right of Maloney and that, you know, she's left her, she's had no threat to her right flank since she became Prime Minister and therefore she's pivoted to the centre on the expectation, well, you know, people at the right of me have nowhere else to go, so they're going to support me.
00:36:15.120That's not sustainable anymore. I don't know how much more right he actually is. I sort of think, you know, making allowances for the various changes, he's broadly exactly where she was on the campaign five years ago when she became prime minister.
00:36:34.100So I think he's basically in the territory on which she got elected before she pivoted within 24 hours to the centre.
00:36:41.260We're going to talk about that in about 10 minutes.
00:36:43.260Before that, however, because you have been active on this, tell me what is going on like last month here in Italy
00:36:50.640with the Interior Secretary Matteo Piantadosi saying we've got a huge victory here.
00:36:58.060we've persuaded the Germans to accept our interpretation over Schengen
00:37:02.120with regards to sending the invaders back.
00:37:05.900You know, it's not a universal deal with the Germans,
00:37:10.000and I think you have the cut-off date of that,
00:37:12.800was it the 21st or something, of June.
00:37:17.640So, you know, what's going to happen moving forward, I don't know,
00:37:20.580but I know you have been active on this.
00:37:22.300Could you just tell me yourself, right, as an Italian here in Italy,
00:37:26.400tell me tell our italian audience what they need to be looking for when they're looking at the
00:37:32.800press and they're hearing how great maloney is supposed to be well yeah i'll start with the
00:37:40.980first question which is what is going to happen now well the answer is nothing nothing is going
00:37:46.480to happen nothing is going to happen that is going to at least stop the invasion that has been brought
00:37:51.660on uh by all these immigration um you know subjects and um we have seen that because you
00:37:58.300know this win you know how they're actually branding it right now came from the fact that
00:38:03.640there is a new migration pact in europe this migration pact basically makes it a little harder
00:38:08.820for uh refugees who wants to come in to come in because there are you know different controls
00:38:14.220that have been strengthened um now you have something where you know people can be uh sent
00:38:19.460in these so-called return hubs in third party countries if their refugee status doesn't get
00:38:26.760accepted. But this basically doesn't change anything because Germany might want to try
00:38:32.920and send those migrants that arrived from Italy back. You're going to have, again, this a little
00:38:40.020stronger controls, but that's pretty much it, right? These migrants are going to stay in Europe.1.00
00:38:47.120They're going to stay, you know, doing what they're doing, you know, eating all the welfare and everything.1.00
00:38:52.880And the fact that, you know, even after this migration pact, which was brought on by the conservatives in Europe and, you know, has also been voted by the right of the European Parliament, which is the Europe of sovereign nations, you know, the party where also the FD is in, where Roberto Vannacci's party is in as well.
00:39:12.080um you know even after this we still have these european leaders uh one is obviously
00:39:18.740which branded all this as a win but there's also matteo salvini which went you know strong against
00:39:24.680germany um as a whole right for you know this request that they made to you know send these
00:39:30.360migrants back in germany and um he said that oh you know well german ngos brought the immigrants
00:39:37.340in Italy, and then they went to Germany. So, you know, it's your fault. Again, even after that,
00:39:43.280we have ministers in all of Europe fighting each other, right, in something that should be
00:39:47.820a policy, a European policy, a policy that unites Europe, right? We talked about, you know,
00:39:53.480Roberto Varnazhi's party, but there's also Rupert Lowe's party, which talked about
00:39:57.100a deportation NATO, so a unified front, a unified European front, and even Western front against
00:40:03.980in migration so i don't really you know think this rhetoric is going to happen anyway and with
00:40:09.320this new policy with this new migration pact nothing is really going to change this is not
00:40:14.360a win we're going to you know keep getting invaded even if it's illegally or legally it doesn't really
00:40:19.940matter it doesn't matter at all and i think she's granting like 500 000 or so legal visas per year
00:40:28.460the invaders to get legal jobs here in italy look um so firstly then just to synthesize your point
00:40:35.060you're saying that nothing is going to change in italy to stop the um invasion but it's worth
00:40:41.520mentioning because these things can get they're very complex they're very complex for legal reasons
00:40:47.700but they're very easy to solve if you actually have the political will uh to solve them like
00:40:52.580like like Viktor Orban had in in Hungary um one of the reasons the complicating factors here is
00:40:58.700the Dublin treaty which I think I think the UK uh came out of a couple of years ago but this Dublin
00:41:05.180treaty is um is a treaty which basically obliges the EU I don't even think it is it an EU treaty
00:41:13.320I might be it might be extra I think it's outside of the EU uh as a treaty it's outside of but but
00:41:18.940But it's basically binding on EU member states that you must allow refugees, asylum seekers, to stay in the first signatory country that they arrive into whilst they have their status considered.
00:41:37.380And that hits the southern countries like Italy and Greece. They hit these countries the hardest because this is where the invaders are coming in from crossing the Med.0.92
00:41:51.040And then, of course, in order to lessen the pressure on the southern Mediterranean, European countries, other countries more to the north have agreed to take shares of to spread the invaders out across Europe.
00:42:07.640So the whole thing is a farce. Let me ask you this before we move on.
00:42:11.400OK, and this is why I think this is totally performative on behalf of Maloney, totally performative.0.76
00:42:18.000But she's abusing the fact that most Italians don't understand procedure, just as most Brits don't understand procedure and most Americans don't understand procedure.
00:42:27.860And the globalists use that fact to their advantage.
00:42:31.220It's why they put out press releases and comments on X, say, look what we're doing.
00:42:35.480And it's purely performative because nothing will change.
00:42:39.900If she were serious, if you were the prime minister of Italy, right, and you wanted to stop the invasion, you could do so.
00:42:51.020You might have to with the courts, but within 24 hours, and it's as simple as this, withdraw from the Dublin Treaty.
00:42:58.180And anyone who comes into the country, you send them back the next day or even the same day.
00:43:03.960If you really wanted to deal with the issue, the problem is they don't want to deal with the issue because the invasion is actually being coordinated inside Europe from the European Union and the member states onwards as part of a population.
00:43:21.580It's like a whole global agenda. Same thing in the United States. The political elites have said, too many poor people in the global south, many rich people in the global north. So we'll just do a transfer of people north, basically, of the equator, and we'll rearrange them, and it'll all sort itself out.
00:43:42.820Of course, that will never win electorally, so you have to do it on the sly,
00:43:46.980whilst pretending that you're resisting it, but really you're actively encouraging it.
00:43:52.020Let that quick question to you. Am I wrong in that?
00:43:54.460If Italy really wanted to stop the invasion and send back the people that had already arrived,0.94
00:50:54.660will say, we want to stop the invasion.
00:50:57.160Some of it's performative, some of it's
00:50:58.800theater but that's that's that's they're all saying that what what what separates out um
00:51:04.500gone salvage in portugal and vernacci in italy is that they're actually that's they're saying
00:51:11.300that stopping the invasion is only half of it what you really need to do because this is an
00:51:15.620existential crisis is is send back uh that the people who've come in illegally or as you're0.90
00:51:24.040saying yourself even legally send them back and prioritize the job creation for your own native
00:51:29.240population that is where the heart of the debate is going to take place now i think over the next
00:51:33.580generation here in continental europe luca venier um you're an absolute star on italian media where
00:51:40.180do people go to check you out um perhaps give you a follow uh because you're holding the flag quite
00:51:47.080hi sure sure i have an instagram profile which is like my main platform at uh luca uh underscore
00:51:55.440dot venier um you see in the screen and i'm also next on underscore luca venier i post you know
00:52:01.340something in uh english for you know the anglophone audience there uh sometimes
00:52:05.660luca many thanks indeed that's all we have time for steve back in the chair 10 a.m tomorrow my
00:52:12.700thanks to Spencer at Real America's Voice and, of course, to Vittorio Santifranco for putting
00:52:18.300this show together. God bless, folks. Back at the same time next week.
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