Bannon's War Room - March 04, 2026


WarRoom Battleground EP 961： Passive-Aggressive Brazil Archbishop “Excommunicates” Faithful For Attending Traditional Latin Mass


Episode Stats

Length

54 minutes

Words per Minute

162.30038

Word Count

8,822

Sentence Count

5

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 this is the primal scream of a dying regime pray for our enemies because we're going to
00:00:10.440 medieval on these people here's when i got a free shot all these networks lying about the people
00:00:17.000 the people have had a belly full of it i know you don't like hearing that i know you try to do
00:00:21.180 everything in the world to stop that but you're not going to stop it it's going to happen and
00:00:24.520 where do people like that go to share the big line mega media i wish in my soul i wish that any of
00:00:32.360 these people had a conscience ask yourself what is my task and what is my purpose if that answer
00:00:39.460 is to save my country this country will be saved war room here's your host stephen k band
00:00:47.960 wednesday 4th of march anno domini 2026 harnwell here at the helm you won't be able to see this
00:01:01.700 at folks but we have had a refurbishment here in the international bureau studios so you should have
00:01:07.320 an even cleaner reception of the signal and the sound than ever before hence that's why the last
00:01:14.700 couple of weeks i was doing it from my car um welcoming a new face onto the for the wednesday
00:01:21.160 audience joseph robertson the political consultant in the uk he's been on the friday show quite a few
00:01:27.800 times but as a traditional catholic uh we wanted to tap his expertise on our weekly review that we do
00:01:35.080 here on wednesday evenings of all things christian not exclusively catholic not exclusively traditional
00:01:41.520 uh catholicism but that's tends to be the um the angle that we're um that we're focusing on
00:01:48.540 frank eugenia old hands and the wednesday posse will will know them very much we're going to start off
00:01:54.440 with a development um from brazil now this caught me uh even my hardened cynical beady eyes somewhat by
00:02:04.360 surprise uh and this is the latest for you uh of leo church a brazilian archbishop has excommunicated
00:02:12.640 traditionalists because of schism and obviously the shadow i would suggest for this story is the um
00:02:20.360 the sspx consecrations that are taking place set to take place on july the first frank walker i saw this
00:02:28.860 story um tell us really what the justification of this is in the diocese there in brazil and um does
00:02:38.120 it have any uh credibility does it carry any weight with you well i mean you you don't know today what
00:02:44.760 will carry weight in leo church and what you know what they'll uh hurl the the uh moniker of schism at
00:02:52.040 you with what they'll excommunicate you for they they don't really need a reason they don't need a legal
00:02:58.060 justification but you always would hope that they might refer to it and i think that they
00:03:02.080 i think that now with the sspx and which is not mentioned in this story but the sspx is going to
00:03:09.440 consecrate bishops and they're a traditionalist group and they're going to do it on their own which
00:03:13.840 is against uh the church law and they say it's because it's a state of necessity so what's happening
00:03:20.260 is that leo church is floating a few different responses to see what happened as this bishop in
00:03:26.280 brazil bishop pereira has said that anybody that goes to an unauthorized latin mass anybody that
00:03:32.820 attends one is automatically in schism and excommunicated uh you know just in the last
00:03:41.100 few years pope francis made traditionus custodis which severely restricted where you can see the latin
00:03:48.420 mass and require people to go to these far-flung places and have and have it not very often and so
00:03:55.100 that's what he means if you don't do that if you don't go to mass there then you're you're out of
00:04:00.200 the church he's throwing you out automatically this is kind of a far-fetched uh solution um
00:04:07.700 it's a can like they say canon laws previously unseen in the past the sspx only the bishops that
00:04:14.760 were consecrated because they did this before a couple bishops those were excommunicated but the
00:04:19.060 people never were for attending so they think that this could be easily challenged if he ever tried
00:04:25.600 doing it but uh um well you know he's doing anyway in fact when when when pope uh uh benedict said that
00:04:32.840 they needed to be more free uh with the latin mass he completely ignored them he completely so i mean
00:04:38.040 was he in schism when he did that so this is a this is a good point i think they're throwing it out
00:04:43.720 there and see what sticks this is um archbishop pereira's predecessor who flatly ignored the
00:04:51.880 20 um 2007 matuproprio samoran pontificum from pope benedict the 16th which as you were saying frank
00:05:00.860 walker liberalized to use those words the um the the traditional latin mass uh basically giving
00:05:09.660 it the possibility to participate in that mass to uh it's any stable group of parishioners that wanted
00:05:16.480 it and of course um that really did split the church i wouldn't even say split down the middle
00:05:22.260 because the church was pretty modernist uh by that stage anyway so you have a lot of these bishops
00:05:27.460 um who refused point blank to obey benedict the 16th and make those provisions um yes i think i don't i
00:05:38.940 want to stick my neck out on this but i think bergoglio was one of them um i seem to remember he he was
00:05:44.880 certainly he was certainly resisting um benedict to his face over the um the regensburg address
00:05:52.060 quite famously um but i think he was resisting these the small pontificum um measures uh back when he was
00:06:02.140 uh arch cardinal archbishop of buenos aires um in argentina you so that's a good point right
00:06:09.040 pereira's predecessor at that time point blank refused to make any allowance for the tridentine
00:06:15.280 right mass um so that says that you can't even call yourself a christian if you go to this mass yeah
00:06:22.320 or a catholic and you can't see one in an apartment you know it reminds me of the house churches in china
00:06:28.080 let's let's uh let's look at that statement right because that's an outrageous thing to say
00:06:33.560 not very ecumenical my lord i might say that my lord bishop um pereira uh not not very ecumenical of
00:06:40.960 you to say that anyone even celebrating um a tlm a traditional latin mass outside of the officially
00:06:49.700 sanctioned ghetto um in the diocese is is not even christian i wonder frank walker have they made that
00:06:57.800 clear to the protestants in brazil in the diocese in the archdiocese have they made that clear
00:07:03.960 to the to whatever anglicans that they meet they might be there that that that uh the the archdiocese
00:07:11.040 doesn't even consider them christian no they they i don't think they would have a problem with that
00:07:16.660 at all in their case um you know there's a good comment at the end of this and it reminds us that
00:07:23.180 pope francis said that the sspx latin mass group is able to hear weddings to say weddings and and say
00:07:31.300 and hear confession so according to this uh a brazilian uh bishop you would be in schism you
00:07:37.500 would be automatically excommunicated for doing what pope francis himself has allowed you to do
00:07:42.780 so i i just think that the whole thing is is just far flung and that's why he makes statements like
00:07:48.260 that you you are not even a christian if you do this this would go to uh this would go to the
00:07:54.120 vatican and they would have to adjudicate this and in the past these kinds of things have lost
00:07:58.340 but what will they do now will they have to remove what pope francis said about um the sspx and
00:08:06.060 confessions and weddings and things will they have to you know back off and change the canon law
00:08:12.140 how are they going to respond to the sspx are they going to try to excommunicate everybody
00:08:16.260 excommunicate everybody like this bishop is doing or will they just uh do it to the bishops you know
00:08:21.780 it's very interesting pope uh archbishop vegan has a great piece out today about this and people
00:08:27.660 like bishop snyder and father murray and and cardinal burke and everybody who has defended uh the leo
00:08:34.240 church against the sspx in spite of all of the of all of the heresies that have come out of leo church
00:08:39.560 archbishop vegan has said this is about doctrine not about the mass but just yesterday pope leo said
00:08:45.620 something well this a couple days ago to a parish council in italy he said um in the church we find
00:08:53.000 small groups or tendencies that promote very individualistic spirituality but this is not the
00:08:59.180 group of friends that jesus left us the communion of fraternal love so this is i think leo responding
00:09:08.120 in a timid way to a small group of people to the challenges from latin mass catholics and the sspx
00:09:14.320 are we not in communion are they not in communion with leo because leo is where jesus left it's about
00:09:21.880 fraternal love or is it about doctrine and obedience to doctrine which archbishop vegano
00:09:26.800 and the um and the uh latin mass catholics would say the sspx says they want us to dialogue about
00:09:32.680 doctrine you can't dialogue about that so i think they're thinking things out and see what sticks even
00:09:38.940 leo himself is trying to figure out how to respond to the situation with the sspx
00:09:43.020 yeah um you um let me just read out the 2023 declaration of um of bishop brace per his predecessor
00:09:53.640 archbishop antonio munith fernandez um who said he had this read out in all masses uh in back in as i
00:10:05.220 2023 he said that um it was permanently prohibited in the territory of the archdiocese that is
00:10:13.560 macho to frequent or invite heretical priests
00:10:18.500 that are not in communion with the church and want to follow the old right these masses
00:10:24.900 wherever they are celebrated in the territory of the archdiocese are canonically prohibited
00:10:30.960 as the law commands um that's a that's a very strong reading of canon law and i'm sure this is
00:10:37.900 going to go this will be appealed to the um to the um to to the vatican whether this is this
00:10:45.160 excommunic these these threatened excommunications are just or not uh but i have to home in here on
00:10:52.000 the word heretical priests because at the very most you could argue that at the very most you could
00:10:58.380 argue that these priests are schismatic and i wouldn't obviously argue that frank walker you
00:11:02.560 wouldn't either um but it's interesting where the word heretical is is allowed to be applied
00:11:08.720 in the ecumenical post concilia church right right it's only about the authority of leo it is all it is
00:11:17.400 never ever about church teaching you know there's all sorts of things that you know all religions
00:11:24.220 are are are one it doesn't matter you can go to communion without um and be in a state of mortal
00:11:31.620 sin um you can bless a gay couples there's all sorts of heretical things that are being approved
00:11:39.580 from the popes right now and there's a group of catholics that say no this is not consistent with
00:11:46.700 the thousands of years of church teaching going back to christ himself it's a state of necessity
00:11:52.140 of exception we know you're not supposed to make new bishops but this isn't this isn't the catholic
00:11:58.920 teaching you know it's not a fraternal community of love it's about obedience to doctrine and that's
00:12:05.940 what we're going to continue to do despite what you call you know they're creating two churches
00:12:10.120 and and they've made that clear well i tell you what i would do frank walker i tell you what i would
00:12:16.640 do if i lived in macho in um in brazil i would live stream myself going to the to one of these
00:12:24.100 prohibited seismatic masses and i would challenge the archbishop to excommunicate me um i would
00:12:32.120 that that is what i would do if only if only we actually had a bishop here in italy that was
00:12:38.360 prepared to do the same thing i'd get out my trusty alfa romeo and i'd be driving there on sunday
00:12:43.700 no problems whatsoever um stand by frank we're back with you a little later on in the show we're
00:12:49.500 coming to jenny holland in just a moment over over an interesting intervention um in ireland just south
00:12:55.280 of the border where she is um but think about this first of all folks back in 2006 if you'd spent
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00:14:12.860 text bannon to 989898 again bannon b-a-n-n-o-n to 989898 today um jenny i was seeing over in the
00:14:26.800 uh in the irish catholic a bishop there uh had pointed out to his to an audience at a speech he
00:14:35.120 gave largely a hundred or so progressive uh parishioners that young catholics he told them
00:14:43.700 to steal themselves because they weren't going to appreciate what he had to say but that young
00:14:47.540 catholics are seeking doctrinal solidity not adaptability and i thought well you know this
00:14:54.940 is a story for jenny harland who's picking up on all of these things um you've seen this story
00:14:59.980 what's your uh what's your reaction to it yeah i i was delighted to see something that looks like good
00:15:07.820 news for once coming from this island of ireland where um the news is generally quite bleak in terms
00:15:14.560 of the woke takeover of all elite institutions and broader culture generally um but yeah so bishop
00:15:21.660 uh nile call from donegal the bishop of rafaud um gave a speech in which he basically defended
00:15:29.960 tradition um perhaps not to the extent that we might hear on the wednesday war room um he called
00:15:37.100 for integrating uh synodality with tradition which i suppose is a start um but actually the the quotes
00:15:43.520 from that article uh of his speech i found quite moving um he spoke about irish people under the age
00:15:50.740 of 30 uh not having any inherited memory of catholic ireland and how they were growing up with sort of
00:15:57.620 fragmented identities due to um growing up online essentially um and he he urges um the church to
00:16:06.500 offer them doctrinal solidity um and a um and to hew to tradition to give because that is what young
00:16:15.300 people are seeking this is super interesting the context of this broad broadly speaking one a little
00:16:21.400 fact is that dunny gall county dunny gall uh where he is a bishop was the only county in ireland to vote
00:16:29.920 no on the abortion referendum in 2018 when uh abortion was uh written back or was legalized essentially with
00:16:37.400 overwhelming majority from the voters of ireland um so it's like a little output post of irish
00:16:43.280 traditional catholicism um in a sea of progressive church going of course irish church attendance has
00:16:50.120 fallen precipitously since the heyday you know maybe 50 years ago where it was something like 90 percent
00:16:56.900 um although it is still high compared to other uh western european countries interestingly i found that
00:17:04.880 a recent european study quoted um a figure of uh 17 percent of young people uh going to weekly mass versus
00:17:15.100 like a seven percent from the the survey prior so yet again we are seeing young people under the age of
00:17:23.240 30 gen z uh turning back toward the religion that they really did not grow up with um in the sense that
00:17:32.260 they are turning towards the more traditional um uh let's say old-fashioned because in this instance
00:17:38.720 it really is from their perspective um but why are they doing that they are doing that as he says for
00:17:45.440 solidity because they have grown up in a sea of choice and opinions and images and and all this ephemera
00:17:54.860 that is actually very bad for the mind and the soul um would this confirm the thesis that we propose
00:18:04.420 basically every week every wednesday on the show that there is a revival taking place in generation z
00:18:11.500 uh right across the west and um and it's a parallel movement there are huge it's not numerically
00:18:18.240 equivalent there are huge numbers of people really sort of boomers and generation x falling away from
00:18:25.060 the church year by year um but there is and it's statistically notable a young generation of guys
00:18:32.440 young guys young 20 year old men who are coming into the church and these guys are on fire with the
00:18:38.000 faith and we have we have posited on the wednesday show that when they come to the church and they're
00:18:43.840 stepping over the threshold for the first time uh with a certain image of what catholicism is but
00:18:50.500 a very different image on the outside from the inside um they're going to have somewhat of a shock
00:18:55.840 and the question that we've been asking ourselves every wednesday on the war room is is what kind of
00:19:00.700 welcome are they going to be given um and would you say this the bishop cole's intervention here is
00:19:08.700 his attempt to try to go out and meet them halfway yes yes that's exactly what it is i mean you might
00:19:16.560 you might think of it as slightly mild-mannered i don't know i don't know uh the man personally um
00:19:22.120 but in general this is an issue of quality versus quantity right so you're absolutely right
00:19:26.940 overwhelmingly the numbers are going in the wrong direction in terms of raw numbers of mass attendance
00:19:32.240 and people who um profess um religious adherence to on surveys and stuff like that but what you do
00:19:41.140 have is you have a very dedicated fervent uh group that is yes small but very high quality in terms of
00:19:48.920 dedication and you know even probably um i don't want to say these were purity but something approaching
00:19:56.180 doctrinal purity um and bear in mind in ireland um even kids who are not growing up in going to regular
00:20:04.560 mass i i would this is a guess for me but i would guess that almost every child here has gone to a mass
00:20:11.120 either for the funeral of a relative or of a relative's communion um it's still very the the church's
00:20:18.000 rituals are still very embedded in the culture um but like you say i mean the the main as we always
00:20:25.760 we always point this out the um the mainstream hierarchy of the church is very uh squishy
00:20:34.240 um and it's a little bit like a simulacra it's not it doesn't feel like you feel like you're when
00:20:40.800 you go to mass and i've done this recently actually i felt like i was sitting there listening to
00:20:44.160 platitudes that i could get from a hallmark card loneliness is bad we all need to be nice to each
00:20:50.680 other um and that's what jesus wants is to not for people not to be lonely and you know i'm hardly a
00:20:57.940 religious expert or theologian but i'm like sitting in the pew thinking i don't think that's what this
00:21:03.020 is about actually at all um so those kids are seeing this sort of these boring platitudes and then online
00:21:11.360 this is the irony of ironies okay so in church they're finding the boring platitudes and then online
00:21:17.020 they're finding uh like robust intellectual arguments for traditional catholicism and they
00:21:24.880 are going to then go back to the church and perhaps hopefully fingers crossed push it back to some sort
00:21:30.120 of uh intellectual rigor which is what catholicism was always known for hallmark card platitudes jenny um
00:21:39.360 when you joined the show a year ago you were an atheist praying the rosary every day now what have we
00:21:47.200 done to you you're now you're now a dyed in the wool rigid traditionalist critiquing the homilies
00:21:55.820 for their vapid um i'm definitely gonna need a rebrand from the atheism no it's it's not me it's all frank
00:22:05.220 walker you you've got to blame you've got to put the blame firmly where it belongs look um you said
00:22:10.060 earlier on then that um perhaps the the good bishop wasn't necessarily framing this in war room
00:22:16.920 vernacular in warm vocabulary that's i'm very glad you put that out there um because i do have to warn
00:22:24.200 even though i you know i don't want to encourage someone who who leaves the fold of just syncretism
00:22:29.320 and modernism uh and tries to make an effort i don't want to just slap them down because they're um
00:22:35.500 what they've said isn't word perfect but i have to point out i so i do feel duty bound to point out
00:22:41.500 that he does say that the task is not to choose between synodality and tradition but to integrate them
00:22:46.860 and that of course is is a danger of with all uh conciliate hierarchies that their constant attempt
00:22:54.020 to assimilate and to absorb and things which have no place in in the traditional catholic faith
00:23:01.180 uh and therefore i have to give a warning folks not for the first time but when when it comes to the
00:23:07.280 uh the conciliate church um their their approach if i might call it sspx light is always the oil slope
00:23:16.460 towards modernism do be careful folks um do be folks but i did i did enjoy very much what we were saying
00:23:23.900 about young people um seeking coherence and tradition and that's a gift to the church
00:23:30.220 rather than a problem to be solved but as we said before jenny on on the on the wednesday war room
00:23:37.160 there is this there is going to be a tension when these guys start coming in the church
00:23:42.440 um yeah i characterize them as the guys that will have sort of crusader icons uh or iconography on on
00:23:49.540 their social media avatars they're going to come in standing the they're fired up ready to fight
00:23:55.100 ready to defend yes christian civilization against enemies and and and they're gonna they're gonna
00:24:02.040 be greeted by these people who have no other objective than turning them over eventually to the
00:24:09.480 post-conciliar mush yes i have to add this is a this is a tale of demographics right so you have a
00:24:17.060 population in ireland uh gen x and boomer that are still solidly um mainstream media consumers so they
00:24:27.240 watch the state broadcaster rte they believe every single word that rte broadcasts they believe every
00:24:32.840 single word that's written in the irish news which is the equivalent of the new york times
00:24:36.040 they are unaware let's put it kindly to give them some generosity they are unaware that uh they're
00:24:46.860 these multiple crises building not just in ireland but in the united kingdom and that they're the as you
00:24:52.940 put the correct word is enemies of christianity are in the they're in inside the gates okay so we are
00:25:01.960 not you know it's the the hour is late the young people however they don't watch rte they don't
00:25:08.300 read the irish times they are online and they are listening to podcasts they are looking at tiktoks
00:25:14.600 they are following all there's a plethora of right-wing um pundits communicators influencers even
00:25:25.360 you know some some better than others uh but they are at least out there reflecting to a far greater
00:25:34.260 degree reality than rte is doing so you know to give the old people like us ben uh maybe a little
00:25:43.040 bit of slack they are less likely to be aware that there is even these problems happening literally on
00:25:49.640 their doorstep but the young men is in particular don't have that luxury why because they can't get
00:25:54.940 jobs they can't afford homes they can't even get rentals anymore in ireland half of the you know
00:25:59.980 there's there's counties where you can't find a gp any longer um the pressure on the the economic and
00:26:06.060 and uh sort of material pressure on young men is enormous um i don't know if you were just alluding
00:26:13.060 to my australia speech just a few moments ago but about that i might make mention a quick word um at the
00:26:18.620 end of the show jenny i know you've got to bounce now because you've got to wrap up this book that
00:26:22.100 you're writing about which we'll talk in the future and all the great places on right-wing
00:26:26.840 social media very quickly 20 seconds one of them one of the places people should be checking out of
00:26:31.760 course is your own social media accounts why don't you quickly remind us what they are yes so you can
00:26:37.380 find a weekly video essay from me on youtube at saving culture from itself um and a whole back catalog
00:26:44.060 of my essays on substack at jenny e holland dot substack dot com jenny thanks very much for joining
00:26:51.060 us today i know you've made a special effort given your pressures with the book folks stand by we'll
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00:31:20.400 tell america's voice family are you on getter yet no what are you waiting for it's free it's uncensored
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00:31:41.280 all of your favorites steve bannon charlie kirk jack pisobi and so many more download the getter app
00:31:47.120 now sign up for free and be part of the movement welcome back well before the break you heard jenny
00:31:53.360 holland accusing me of being old um it's a perfect opportunity now as we bring in joseph robertson for
00:32:00.720 his wednesday show debut to talk about the imminence and beatification of archbishop fulton sheen to point
00:32:09.280 out that i'm too young to remember when fulton sheen was in his prime in the golden age of of
00:32:16.800 american catholicism in the 1950s um joseph tell us a bit but i'm being sarcastic i mean everyone i mean
00:32:24.000 he died in i think 79 but everyone or all catholics will remember that his reputation his his weekly
00:32:30.240 shows i think had like 30 million people viewing in a piece um it's big news this we'll bring in frank
00:32:38.240 walker um as well i'm not saying that frank is is old but um we'll bring in frank uh just just in a
00:32:45.040 few minutes but tell us a bit then about uh the the developments in terms of the the beatification of
00:32:52.400 archbishop fulton sheen there'd been some delays some sort of um tussles between the new york archdiocese
00:32:59.520 um and his home diocese in illinois where he was born well what's the latest developments i know that
00:33:04.960 the new york times had a big article on on this just a short while or so ago what what's the
00:33:11.120 developments yeah well i think one of the reasons why there's been such a delay is because rome hasn't
00:33:17.280 really spoken on this for some time um and fulton sheen has you know obviously been a a mega star in
00:33:24.640 catholic households um right across the spectrum of both the uh what we call the post conciliar church
00:33:30.800 all the way through to very traditionalist groups he's quite a unifying figure among most circles and
00:33:36.240 it was kind of surprising to see that you know there has been a sort of stagnation around his
00:33:40.960 cause for canonization for quite some time i remember people talking about this even 10 years
00:33:45.280 ago sort of wondering whether or not he was going to be uh escalated on the path of sainthood and
00:33:50.880 obviously now we have news that he is going to be taking the second step or the church is going to
00:33:56.320 be taking the second step um on that path to canonization and uh as you'd expect there's been
00:34:02.560 an outpouring of positive coverage around it people once again remembering him for the um brilliant
00:34:09.280 uh tv evangelist that he was um of course reaching a massive audience back in um those early days of
00:34:18.160 televangelism um and it's interesting to see that as well as the canonization side of things there's also
00:34:25.120 a big uh question mark over whether or not we will ever have somebody quite like him again
00:34:30.800 gracing our screens um and you would have thought in today's day and age with the amount of social
00:34:34.880 media and interaction that we have that someone would have stepped up and taken on the mantle but
00:34:39.120 that does seem to be uh another source of debate that's joseph that's the job for us now that's the job for
00:34:46.880 the laity um i think i think the days where we can expect the hierarchy to confidently transmit the
00:34:53.120 fullness of the catholic faith um those that that's that's our job now um i don't know if you've been
00:35:00.320 following the story of the miracle which was attributed to the intercession of bishop of archbishop
00:35:06.880 um sheen um and this goes back to um it was actually in his home diocese of peoria in illinois um in 2010
00:35:15.760 that a boy stillborn had been born um and had been named actually james fulton after the archbishop and
00:35:23.920 so they prayed to the archbishop of his intercession and after about an hour of prayer and medical
00:35:33.040 intervention the boy came um to life um and that was that's been examined that story by both by the
00:35:40.000 diocese and by and the vatican and that has been declared to be a valid miracle i just thought before
00:35:48.000 we bring in frank walker um who's so old he's definitely going to remember when fulton sheen was
00:35:53.280 on the television um unlike myself um i just wonder if you'd just explain for us to our largely
00:35:59.840 evangelical audience what do catholics mean because there's a lot of confusion about this
00:36:05.840 what the catholics mean when they pray to a saint for their intercession yeah well it's uh it's a much
00:36:13.680 avoided topic i think um because quite frankly um although you know there are some accounts
00:36:20.320 particularly on x nowadays who tend to scream at catholics for idol worship i think the vast
00:36:25.600 majority of protestants um and in particularly evangelicals who you know maybe resonate more with
00:36:32.240 a traditional catholic sense of morality than um many of our counterparts even within the post
00:36:37.680 conciliar church um had sort of shied away from that and so the the topic doesn't really come up as
00:36:43.600 much as it used to but to break down catholic worship and where intercession to the saints fits in
00:36:49.840 um you've got to understand three terms which are dulia latria and hyperdulia um so dulia
00:36:57.520 is a form of sort of a form of praise of honor that's given to um anybody who's made it to heaven
00:37:05.520 uh hyperdulia is reserved for the blessed virgin and honoring her as the mother of god
00:37:10.480 but still not worshiping her as purely a form of intercessory prayer and honor and then latria is
00:37:16.800 reserved for worship to god alone and that is essentially the basis of our theological understanding
00:37:24.240 of what the hierarchy of saints means um there's a strong emphasis on ancestry prayer so very similar
00:37:30.320 to the way that a court works if you want to approach a king it's quite difficult if you want to go
00:37:37.120 through one of the courtiers it makes the process a lot easier that doesn't mean you can't approach
00:37:41.280 the king directly it just means that you have an added layer of intercession on the way through to
00:37:46.640 making that plea and so catholics view of heaven is is very similar in the sense that you want uh
00:37:53.280 assistance to make your prayer as efficacious as possible um and whereas for from the evangel
00:38:01.840 evangelical perspective they will immediately counter but as you had taken into consideration
00:38:06.800 in your response you know catholic protestants will say i can just pray to christ directly i don't need to go
00:38:12.400 through anybody else and as you've pointed out you can absolutely do that and yet here the the history
00:38:18.240 of miracles and intercessions um throughout the history of the catholic church is that if you pray
00:38:25.520 to saints for their intercession not that they grant the miracle themselves that they are in the court of
00:38:31.360 heaven they will go to god and they will intercede for you um stories like this happen they're rare
00:38:36.720 because they're miracles but they do happen and the catholics um the history of the catholic church
00:38:42.160 is littered with examples of of such events like this um coming forward i think the best analogy um
00:38:50.960 of course the traditional catholic argument is exactly like as you described it a royal court um
00:38:57.120 and but if you you can either go to the king directly or you can attempt to go through one
00:39:01.200 of his courtes i'm not saying president trump is a king okay or any us president is a king but it's the
00:39:07.280 same concept you can go if you if you are perhaps um a vip in america or in a foreign country you can
00:39:15.120 of course go direct to president trump but you can also find someone in his circle and say look uh i'm
00:39:21.600 working on this a presidential intervention might help could you sort of just stick it on his desk and
00:39:26.240 put it under his eyes um and most people will understand that concept um beautifully explained joseph
00:39:32.880 thanks very much indeed stay by um and we'll come back to you um in about 10 minutes time for you
00:39:38.320 to recite your socials where people can join you on social media um i'm gonna present a story in just
00:39:45.440 a quick moment but before i do that um this is a story that caught my interest and i just want to
00:39:50.320 i'll share that with you folks and i will also ask for frank and joseph's response that i just quickly
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00:42:02.000 so as we come up to the close of the show um i wanted to bring to your attention that as part of this
00:42:09.760 synodal process one of these i think it's the 20th study group that had been created by pope francis late
00:42:18.240 unlimited pope francis psychopath that he was um he created a number of these um study groups and one of
00:42:27.520 them has just reported this is the digital mission group um one of the 10 study groups established uh
00:42:36.400 back in 2024 um and amongst its recommendations it's suggesting the formation of a pontifical commission
00:42:45.920 for digital culture and new technologies um the group here is highlighting ethical risks associated with
00:42:55.840 digital platforms that that folks that's us um and the report is saying that many participants
00:43:03.040 in an international consultation have pointed out to the misuse
00:43:07.280 of online platforms for polarization manipulation and the spread of false information as a significant
00:43:14.720 challenge for ecclesial life and evangelization and they note that online environments can intensify
00:43:22.720 ideological postures over simplify complex debates and encourage confrontations that weaken ecclesial
00:43:31.360 communion um folks be if you are catholic and you are an online influencer you need to be very careful
00:43:39.920 about what they're doing here because they are moving towards a censorship um paradigm let me bring on at this
00:43:48.160 point frank walker and joseph robertson it seems clear to me guys that they are very concerned this study
00:43:57.200 group is very concerned that the vatican is losing control of its ability to shape the narrative on
00:44:03.440 its globalist environmentalist um pro-invasion agenda and um we saw earlier frank you open the show with the story how excommunication was
00:44:16.160 now being wielded to to towards traditionalists i would like to suggest that they're going to make increasing use of that as public
00:44:25.280 voices um nationalist voices um nationalist voices on on the catholic right grow in prominence because the agenda
00:44:32.960 certainly is um moving in our direction away from the the vatican's ability to shape it i just wanted
00:44:40.880 to know you've you've both seen these developments uh frank let me go to you first um am i right to be
00:44:47.760 concerned about this point one and point two will you take any notice of whatever the pontifical council
00:44:55.920 of digital censorship or whatever they're going to call it uh tries to do to reign in canon 212
00:45:04.160 well no i won't uh if i was going to do something like that i would have done it years ago but
00:45:09.760 but uh yeah you're you're right they the reason that they have a leo church you know and that wonderful
00:45:15.840 friends of jesus fraternity of love that he's creating is in order to push their the globalist
00:45:22.480 platform but they haven't done uh very they've done very little to uh control the internet control the
00:45:31.120 message but they want to do that really bad i mean they've been talking about ai for a long time
00:45:35.840 and like jen mentioned that bishop up in donegal um who's come up with this new slick way to make
00:45:42.720 synodality that is actually doctrinal and coherent and stuff like that um they're getting pressure
00:45:49.520 from actual decent normal people and they and they're getting a lot of pressure because they
00:45:55.200 that's why the big birth and growth and young people i mean every day i see new people joining
00:46:00.240 the church minneapolis is up 50 they just reported today and the people that are joining the church
00:46:05.760 they have to stop that and they really only have one tool they're not going to be able to appeal to
00:46:10.720 anybody they're not going to be able to create this alternative a leo media that everybody loves
00:46:16.400 no people are that's inhuman they're going to only be able to censor they're going to censor like they
00:46:22.240 did to us during the virus and so they have to create sort of a a platform a mechanism to look at
00:46:29.200 everybody out there and find ways to hit them on their ideology which means that you're politically
00:46:34.960 catholic you know or you're a catholic they call you an ideologue and they call misinformation
00:46:40.720 means the truth they have to shut all those things down and they're counting on the leo church i mean
00:46:45.760 they invented leo church for a reason and francis church they're counting on them to make sure that
00:46:51.040 people like bishop sheen never happen they really don't want bishop sheen's to happen anymore they want
00:46:57.360 to stop that completely doctrinal drift what they mean is doctrine they're a manipulation and
00:47:03.920 and sensationalism what they mean is appealing to people you know they want to set all that down
00:47:09.600 all the way and then they want to teach seminarians to do the same and they're going to use this
00:47:14.000 commission will it work i don't know because it's entirely negative you mentioned bishop sheen it is
00:47:22.800 amusing to watch the anti-catholic modernists welcoming bishop sheen's beatification through gritted teeth
00:47:31.600 because here's a guy had he been alive today this is a guy who would have been punished and persecuted
00:47:36.960 like uh archbishop vegano right um but because he's dead um they can say he was so great in the 1950s
00:47:44.160 fighting communism and all the rest of it um i can't help but think of that line in the gospel
00:47:49.600 frank walker where jesus uh condemns the the the the pharisees and said look these are the kids
00:47:57.680 um who are building monuments to the prophets their forefathers stoned um and that that's i think
00:48:05.280 how that's that's how i see the uh that the modernist establishment welcoming bishop uh archbishop
00:48:11.680 fulton sheen's beatification and hopefully imminently canonization as well uh joseph let me read to you
00:48:18.400 if i may the um the the from this report and then just quickly we'll close with with your take on
00:48:26.000 this this is this report specifically urges bishops conferences and diocesan digital teams
00:48:32.000 to recognize ethical risks and the potential for polarization um a dynamic the the writers say
00:48:41.440 often appears to be embedded in social media platforms themselves you're very active on social
00:48:46.880 media are you remotely bothered by anything the vatican might do to rein you in well ben i mean
00:48:55.120 unfortunately i live in the uk so whatever the vatican does it's not going to be as bad as what
00:48:59.600 we already have here um now in terms of what they're trying to achieve the first thing i'd say is that
00:49:05.760 the sinister part about it isn't necessarily the push towards censorship that's just what we've grown
00:49:10.240 accustomed to from any uh governance really um across the western hemisphere but what is
00:49:16.880 bizarre and and frightening in all of this is the lack of spirituality and the lack of
00:49:21.760 actually looking at anything integral to what the vatican is meant to do which is to represent christ
00:49:26.480 on earth um and that really is my major area of concern as with all these things as with climate change
00:49:32.880 um you know the church can be wrong when it comes to science it can make um you know all kinds of
00:49:39.280 human error um in terms of fallible topics like science like the way that creation works external
00:49:48.080 description and tradition um but this has no semblance of catholicism no semblance of morality
00:49:54.560 no semblance of religion it's becoming increasingly like a a one-size-fits-all
00:50:00.480 ngo um that doesn't really consider catholicism let alone christianity in general to be true and
00:50:07.680 that's what really concerns me we're in a post-truth vatican um right now and and it's creating so much
00:50:14.400 chaos among the faithful for the simple reason that actually the church once used to be quite authoritarian
00:50:20.560 in some ways it used to be authoritarian when it came to morals tradition and hierarchy it didn't
00:50:26.000 uh take a position necessarily in what was happening in the world around it all the time
00:50:30.640 but now it's quite the opposite it's a transition towards a technical dominance of
00:50:35.920 of the world around it and absolutely no spiritual interest whatsoever um that was perfect um
00:50:43.760 joseph you've really acquitted yourself very well as i knew you would do on on your debut on the
00:50:48.960 wednesday show just why don't you quickly give us your um social media contacts where you're
00:50:54.160 present on social media so you can get me at jr types both on x and on substack where i put most
00:51:01.600 of my content great i strongly recommend both of those those uh points of contact thanks very much joseph
00:51:08.320 hope you'll be back and join us again soon frank walker uh before you give your uh just before you give
00:51:15.280 your social media contacts just give me 30 seconds because you are so much older than i am on fulton
00:51:21.680 sheen um and how you think american catholics will welcome his elevation to the honors of the altar
00:51:29.040 well i didn't i'm not old that old you know i mean i didn't see uncle milty i didn't watch jack
00:51:34.160 benny i'm not that old i am old though i agree but uh that way he was an amazing guy he wrote 60 books
00:51:41.840 and he would do his shows live that's what they did back then they did them live in front of all
00:51:46.560 those people he was an amazing evangelizer for the entire country and he knew it he knew who his
00:51:52.960 people were and he he but he they're painting him in this thing as if he's not communist or or he was
00:51:59.280 neither left nor right he was an anti-communist that's why francis sat on him for a long long time
00:52:04.800 frank walker very quickly 10 seconds your social media uh canon 212 uh is is the site you can see
00:52:12.560 the video at rumble and at um and at um a stumbling block and also uh on it's canon 212 spot do you owe
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