Based Camp - Based Camp： Friends are a Pointless Indulgence

00:00:00.000 The really important thing to remember about this is that while you and everyone else is the

00:00:05.840 protagonist of their own story, you are a side character in the story of everyone else you will

00:00:11.820 ever meet. And so a lot of people say, I just want people to see me for who I am. That is far

00:00:17.000 too nuanced to be a good side character, right? Would you like to know more? Hi, Octavian. Do you

00:00:24.160 want to say hi to YouTube? Yeah. Okay. Say hi, YouTube. Hi, YouTube. So we had one person on one of our

00:00:33.820 videos saying, you guys can do more interviews when you start running out of interesting things

00:00:37.380 to talk about. And I love this because they don't know. I am on easy mode with YouTube. My wife told

00:00:44.460 me one day, she goes, Malcolm, if you don't find an interesting thing to discuss with me, because

00:00:48.260 every morning we do a strategy walk where we walk together for about an hour. You don't think of an

00:00:53.020 interesting thing to discuss with me before I wake up. My life is the framing device for Arabian 1.00

00:00:57.960 tales. That is my life. I have to keep this woman happy or she'll kill me. And I have to keep her 1.00

00:01:05.220 happy with controversial, weird takes. You guys are just getting the dregs of these morning walks.

00:01:12.400 Yeah. You're having the microwave leftovers from my first take, my prima nocte. What can we say?

00:01:17.720 I'm sorry, guys. Yes. Anyway, today I thought we could talk about our theory of friendship,

00:01:28.460 which we actually developed pretty early on in our marriage. And this was a listener request.

00:01:33.660 Yeah. And it comes down to the thought of what use are other people to us? More specifically,

00:01:40.160 what I mean is if you're going to go out there and you're going to engage with people and you're

00:01:43.420 an extreme introvert, you really need a civic motivation to do that. Specifically as extreme

00:01:48.220 introverts, we really need a reason to interact with people. But we also think that everyone

00:01:53.020 actually interacts with people for a reason. They don't just quote unquote need friends. And so we

00:01:58.580 built a model to determine what types of friends there are, which can also make it much easier to

00:02:03.800 determine whether a friendship is worth keeping and really help you understand the dynamics of the

00:02:08.000 friendship. But more importantly, if you want to have friends, it's really helpful to understand what

00:02:12.860 kind of friend you are to them, what your value proposition is to them as a friend. And that

00:02:17.620 actually has helped us a ton because there are all sorts of people that we like to be friends with.

00:02:21.740 And we need to understand what it is in their lives that we're going to fill in if we are to take that

00:02:26.940 position, to earn it essentially. Well, people will treat their friends very differently depending on the

00:02:31.300 value proposition that you're providing. Exactly. So let us start. There are four types of friends,

00:02:36.580 by the way, per our model. We will also discuss in this conversation, people's other complaints

00:02:41.600 and suggestions that there are other types of friends, and we will attempt to refute them. Of course,

00:02:46.120 if you have additional ideas of types of friends that exist, share them in the comments, and we will see

00:02:50.540 just how much we agree with you or not. But I bet that this model can be expanded. So honestly, we'd like

00:02:56.860 your feedback. So first type of friend, trash friend, as far as we are concerned. Although you probably have 0.98

00:03:02.580 friends like this, and you are an idiot for having them. This first type of friend is the convenience 1.00

00:03:07.380 friend. What is a convenience friend? It is someone who in the show Parks and Rec, they are referred

00:03:13.180 to as workplace proximity associates rather than friends, because this is someone who you are friends

00:03:19.260 with merely because they are there. And sometimes because you want company. So great examples of

00:03:24.760 friends who are convenience friends or workplace proximity associates are classmates, roommates,

00:03:31.660 neighbors, people who go to the same church as you, people who are in clubs with you,

00:03:35.380 coworkers who you like and hang out with after work, people that you have met a long time ago that

00:03:40.800 you've just kept up with. A good way to think of this group is the people who you are adjacent to

00:03:47.120 in life, whether it's in school or in work. These are not people that you've really sorted for,

00:03:52.280 right? It's just a random assortment of the population generally.

00:03:56.180 You're not convenience friends with everyone. You're convenience friends with the people you're

00:04:00.100 compatible with. You will inevitably sort for the top, let's say 20% compatibility people

00:04:05.740 within your adjacent environment, whether it's neighbors, schools, anything like that. And those

00:04:11.700 people will become your friends. And those are convenience friends. Now, convenience friends make

00:04:15.600 a lot of sense. Almost everyone always has some convenience friends. And they are of high utility

00:04:22.060 to have in the moment if they exist within your current context. So if you are currently at a company

00:04:28.780 or currently at school, it's very useful to have convenient friends within that context

00:04:33.740 because it's useful in playing into the larger social hierarchy of a school. And to that extent,

00:04:38.900 they might be a different type of friend that we'll get to next, but broadly speaking, they make

00:04:43.300 sense. Where convenient friends become really toxic is when you have a convenience friend that

00:04:50.660 is from a stage of life that you are no longer in. This would be like friends from high school

00:04:57.980 that you're still friends with as an adult. There is no reason that those people in high school,

00:05:03.260 unless you have a really unique childhood, would be optimized out of all the people in the world

00:05:09.120 to be like high match friends for you, right? In reality, we would say that what is happening when

00:05:15.560 somebody still stays friends with somebody who was originally a convenience friend is they move into

00:05:20.760 the next category of friendship, which we call self-image reinforcement friends.

00:05:25.040 Or character reinforcing friends. Yeah. Or character reinforcing friends. And these are friends

00:05:30.160 who you are friends with because they help reinforce some image you have of yourself. The most classic

00:05:36.020 example here would be the like gay best friend a woman may have because she thinks she needs like a

00:05:42.320 gay best friend to fit some stereotype she saw in media. Adding to the gay best friend example is like 0.50

00:05:48.720 the high powered business women that you meet with and have cocktails with because you see it done on sex in 1.00

00:05:53.400 the city. And you're like, of course I need that. I need my girls today. Or like a minority who somebody 0.99

00:05:58.660 is friends with just so people don't call them racist. And what we need to make clear with this

00:06:02.720 type of friend is it's not everyone who happens to be like the gay best friend of a woman falls into

00:06:08.620 this category. Not every minority of person is friends with are they friends with to prove that

00:06:12.680 they're not racist. But there are some people in the world who choose friends because they fit these

00:06:19.500 roles. And you can play yourself up to fit these roles better. Sorry, I'm going to say that better

00:06:25.680 because this is something that's really important that we say earlier in the video so we don't look

00:06:28.660 like we're saying all. Okay. To be clear here, we are not saying that gay people who are someone's best

00:06:36.280 friends fit this narrative. What we are saying is people who choose a friend specifically because

00:06:43.200 they fit some gay archetype, that is this type of friendship. So for example, a gay person may not 0.96

00:06:50.600 fit this archetype, even if they are gay, if they aren't like the sassy whatever, because that's what's 0.97

00:06:57.360 needed to fill this role in the person's story that they're trying to tell. And a lot of people in the

00:07:04.060 world are just essentially trying to create character sheets for themselves. That is their

00:07:09.700 primary driver in life. It's not to affect some change upon the world. It's they have a story

00:07:15.980 of who they want to be. And often they pick that story up from media. And now they're trying to tell

00:07:22.180 that story. Yeah, I think it's it cannot be understated how much of a role popular media plays

00:07:28.000 and character reinforcing friends and the type of friends they want. So I also do think that understanding

00:07:32.820 really like top sitcoms, dramas, movies, etc, will help you understand the sorts of characters

00:07:39.160 supporting roles, of course, people are looking for, and help you understand what kind of person

00:07:44.140 you might need to be to fit in that role. You can also look at, for example, people's life stages,

00:07:49.600 because that can also really influence what people are looking for in certain stages of their life.

00:07:55.020 If you really want to befriend people who are more mature in their life, maybe 50 years plus,

00:08:00.380 and really successful in their careers, people in those positions often really have self images or

00:08:06.100 characters that are mentors that are wise that give people advice. So coming to them as an acolyte in

00:08:12.600 the right kind of way could get you a good position in their life, for example. So I think looking at

00:08:17.520 life stages, and also what seems to satisfy people the most and how they'd like to see themselves the

00:08:22.620 most in those life stages is really important. So sometimes I think maybe for like,

00:08:26.660 girls in their early 20s, they want like a wing woman, like a girl who they can like travel and 1.00

00:08:32.000 party with and we go on adventures and we have fun and we have spa days. And for guys like a good

00:08:36.840 wingman who like brings in adventure and supports them and like has their back and pushes them a

00:08:41.780 little bit like those kinds of characters make a lot of sense. So when you are looking, we'll say you

00:08:46.600 have a target, you have a target friend, you have to look at their age, you have to look at the media

00:08:50.880 they consume. And this is actually pretty easy to do with social media as long as someone's online.

00:08:55.300 So essentially, when it comes to the character reinforcing friend, there's this concept that

00:08:59.860 we're all I think pretty familiar with where everyone is the protagonist in their story.

00:09:04.820 But to be a protagonist, you need supporting actors, you need extras, you need the right kind

00:09:09.560 of set dressing to be who you are. Why this is really useful to know about is if you understand

00:09:15.600 the kind of character that somebody else wants to be, you can figure out how you would help them

00:09:22.020 complete that character. And if you help them complete that character in some way, you have

00:09:26.740 an instant VIP location in their friendscape. And the really important thing to remember about this

00:09:33.440 is that while you and everyone else is the protagonist of their own story, you are a side character

00:09:40.420 in the story of everyone else you will ever meet. And so a lot of people say, I just want people to

00:09:45.840 see me for who I am. That is far too nuanced to be a good side character, right?

00:09:51.520 Yeah, yes.

00:09:52.180 Yeah. And what we mean when we say a convenience friend, who your friends was after the convenient

00:09:57.580 period as a character reinforcing friend, what we mean is the primary reason you haven't dumped

00:10:02.860 them as a friend is because you don't want to be the type of person who dumps friends. So really,

00:10:09.060 the reason you haven't dumped them as a friend is because of the narrative they tell you about who you

00:10:13.660 are as a person, which is a really silly reason to stay friends with someone. And a lot of people

00:10:18.880 are like, oh, they don't care. They've got other friends. And frankly, it's healthier for them to

00:10:23.620 make new friends who are better fits for them given where they are in the world at that time.

00:10:28.620 So true. They're almost like a friendship blackmail because it's like this dirty little secret that

00:10:33.860 you don't want to have out that like you dump friends or that you're like a heartless person who

00:10:39.280 leaves your childhood friends behind. And it really, I think can make people feel bad and feel

00:10:44.680 a lot of cognitive dissonance because like, why am I spending my time? Or I think this also,

00:10:48.700 it doesn't just happen with people that you move away from or grow apart from, but from with friends

00:10:53.440 who become toxic. And I think toxic friends actually use this dynamic, like they subconsciously

00:10:58.580 understand it. And they use this dynamic to twist the knife and stop friends from dumping them.

00:11:03.860 So another way this bad dynamic shows up is I think a lot of toxic friends or friends who are

00:11:08.800 becoming exploitative actually subtly or subconsciously understand this dynamic and

00:11:13.460 leverage it. Like how dare you're abandoning me just because I'm deeply depressed and in need right

00:11:18.720 now. Like how could you possibly forget my birthday, et cetera, et cetera. And they use that because they

00:11:24.140 understand that you see yourself as a good person, as a good friend, as a caring person, and they frame

00:11:30.360 you as not being caring when you don't meet their unreasonable demands. Understanding that as well,

00:11:36.920 understanding that people are manipulating you along those grounds. They're manipulating you by

00:11:41.540 taking something that matters a lot to you, which is your personal character and trying to put it in

00:11:46.860 danger, hold it hostage, essentially. It's hopefully that would make it easier for some people to drop

00:11:53.160 toxic friends. Although I guess it's hard to recognize in the moment, but that's still something

00:11:57.500 it is definitely a real dynamic that is leveraged by a lot of people. I think the same happens sometimes

00:12:02.840 with family members, et cetera. Like how could you do this? Ultimately they cause a lot of harm.

00:12:08.220 Anything more about character re-enforcing friends?

00:12:11.020 No, I'll let you get to the next one.

00:12:12.340 I would just add one more note, which is that Malcolm's point that everyone wants to be this

00:12:18.040 like complicated, subtle person cannot be emphasized enough. We've had people who really take our advice

00:12:23.900 on being a two-dimensional character to heart, and they'll send to us their draft character sheets

00:12:29.620 and ask us, Hey, what do you think? And their draft character sheets of teen attributes that are

00:12:35.160 positive, like three that are negative, but they're actually really positives. I don't think

00:12:39.500 it cannot be overstated how simple is. You've got three positive attributes and three negative

00:12:47.240 attributes that are super clear and actually really negative. That's it. Like you have to be so

00:12:51.640 two-dimensional. So that should also be emphasized because I think people just can't get over the fact

00:12:58.040 they're so unique and special and nuanced that it's hard to understand that you have to be an

00:13:04.720 extra on somebody else's performance. So our favorite type of friend, Malcolm is the utility

00:13:10.420 friend. Yes. Yes. This is just someone who's directly useful to you in some way.

00:13:15.340 So in childhood, this might be like the kid with the best video game console.

00:13:19.780 Right. It could be somebody who intellectually pushes you forward. It could be somebody who gives you

00:13:24.920 access to additional things. It could be somebody who gives you new ideas. It could be the point is

00:13:30.000 that you are receiving some sort of a tangible or mental benefit from being friends with this person.

00:13:38.180 Yeah. So examples of utility are, they go all over the place. One could be like, honestly,

00:13:43.600 like they're wealthy. And when you're with them, you get to do fancy things, or maybe they're really

00:13:47.240 attractive and you just want to be around someone attractive, or maybe they're a boyfriend or 0.93

00:13:51.300 girlfriend and you just want sex from them. Maybe it is because, yeah, like Malcolm said, 0.91

00:13:56.480 they teach you something new. Our favorite types of utility friends are people who expose us to new

00:14:00.840 ideas and intellectually push us. So that's, of course, the first thing you would go to, Malcolm.

00:14:07.100 I think for most people, utility friends are the type of friend who manufactures popularity. And by that,

00:14:14.560 they are the type of friend who organizes the gatherings. They organize the group vacations.

00:14:18.480 They organize parties. They invite people, like they make everything happen. So the utility that

00:14:23.860 those people offer is literally providing opportunities and organizing opportunities

00:14:28.940 for socializing because so few people actually take the initiative to do that. And one thing that

00:14:34.780 we're going to be teaching our kids so early is that like the key to popularity has very little to do

00:14:40.560 with necessarily charisma. You obviously can't be like the worst socially, but really the key to

00:14:46.400 popularity is being the person to make something happen. If you are taking the initiative and getting

00:14:51.660 people together to go somewhere or to come to your house, you host, you do things, you keep the

00:14:57.740 conversation going in a group thread, you are the popular one because so few people take initiative.

00:15:03.640 So that is one of the easiest ways to become a utility friend. But I think understanding what people

00:15:10.800 want, what matters to them, what challenges they're facing, make it really easy to understand how you

00:15:16.700 could be a utility friend to them. And to be honest with you, because we really value this type of

00:15:21.280 friendship the most whenever we meet new people and we like them and we want to be friends with them.

00:15:26.500 We're always like, what do you need right now? What do you want? What type of interest do you need?

00:15:30.640 Because we want, this is a two-parter. Like one is we want to be useful to them. If we are utility

00:15:36.380 friends to them, we will be friends with them. But also every time that we are useful to them is an

00:15:40.580 excuse to reach out to them, to engage, to talk, et cetera. Yeah. And being the connector is a very

00:15:45.740 useful way to be a utility friend, as Simone was saying, because whenever you connect to people,

00:15:51.220 like I connect a startup with a venture capitalist, right? And it's a verified connection.

00:15:54.800 I am doing a favor to both of those individuals and they both really value that favor. And I'm getting

00:16:00.960 like two social credits for that. And the key to being this type of a connector, especially if you're

00:16:06.920 young now, really make sure you take notes on the people you're in conversations with. You should have

00:16:12.440 a list of all of the people you've talked to, their contact information, and everything you know about

00:16:18.220 them. And then occasionally hit up the people on this list who are most likely to be useful to other

00:16:23.400 people who are part of sort of your cloud of individuals. Because that's a very low cost way,

00:16:29.840 both low cost socially and financially, to be a good utility friend. And outside of that,

00:16:35.360 hosting parties is a very low cost way to be a utility friend to a large group of people. To

00:16:40.840 the extent where even though we're very introverted, we have found a system for going to Manhattan once

00:16:45.760 every other month and hosting a party there just to stay of utility and top of mind to people who

00:16:53.640 we're interacting with. What's the final type of friend, Simone? You said there were four.

00:16:57.540 Yeah. So in the past, we've only discussed three and we've only come up with three,

00:17:02.700 but I want to propose one bonus one because I want to prime everyone who might leave comments

00:17:08.080 on additional types that like, Hey, anyone can contribute something. And I'm going to throw

00:17:12.120 something out in Malcolm and you can pull it apart and either say this is a legitimate

00:17:15.340 addition to the Canon or not. Sound good. Okay. Okay. I'm going to propose the fourth type of friend

00:17:22.260 is a, we'll say a culture friend. So this could count as someone who's also a fan of your top

00:17:29.000 baseball team, someone who's a member of your religion, someone who is also a really huge fan

00:17:34.200 of some subculture, basically someone with whom you share a culture. I'll never forget my mom

00:17:38.760 explaining to me in part, her love of baseball. She later in life became a huge fan of the San

00:17:45.600 Francisco Giants and would wear a Giants baseball cap, had a Giants t-shirt. And she talked to me

00:17:52.360 a couple of times about how awesome it felt to go to a game and feel just so united with a bunch

00:17:58.840 of people that she had no other shared background with. And also she would walk around with her

00:18:02.840 like Giants signaling stuff. And immediately she would have friends and it wasn't because of some

00:18:08.880 character reinforcing thing per se. I think it's really different. I think it's because

00:18:12.260 whatever. No, no, no, hold on. Let me, let me make my case. The cultural signifier that you're

00:18:17.740 wearing, whatever that may be, tells them immediately that you have a shared context,

00:18:22.580 you have a shared language and you are a safe place for each other. So I think often people get

00:18:28.500 really stressed going out into the world. It can be, everything is uncertain, unpredictable.

00:18:32.900 Sometimes it's really hard to predict people. So especially in a really diverse heterogeneous

00:18:37.560 society, like in the United States, going out and interacting people can be tough because

00:18:42.080 you don't know where they're coming from. You don't know what their expectations are.

00:18:45.660 Social contracts are very mismatched in many places. So you're going to get some form of

00:18:49.560 conflict or you're going to insult someone by mistake. When you know someone has a shared

00:18:54.780 culture with you, be that a sports team or a fan universe, like you see that, like they

00:18:58.860 have some Naruto pin or something. You're like, Oh my God, so scary. Like then like suddenly

00:19:05.000 that tension goes away and you are instant friends on this thing. And there's this camaraderie

00:19:12.380 that shows up.

00:19:13.280 Okay. I will. So I'd say that really it's either utility friend or a character reinforcing

00:19:18.600 friend seems to be what you're describing, but I will say that it's derived enough that

00:19:23.420 you could potentially consider it a new category with this understanding that for example, you

00:19:28.840 think about us trying to create a culture of aligned families who are having a high number

00:19:34.820 of kids. So our kids grow up understanding our cultural values, understanding that they're

00:19:39.120 not just completely weirdos because the other families that were part of this group was they

00:19:43.820 also do weird things like name their kids, weird things. They also, they're very interested

00:19:47.440 in deviating from society. They're also very pro natalist, very focused on, on success and

00:19:52.060 cultural accelerationism in that they're really like technophilic people. They're really focused

00:19:57.160 on how do we move forwards to whatever comes after this stage of society. So they're really,

00:20:03.060 and we do that because that's useful. And I would imagine if you're a conservative Jew or

00:20:07.140 you're a conservative Catholic people in your Catholic community or people in your Jewish

00:20:12.240 community would feel very different from you and have an intergenerational utility to you.

00:20:18.420 But because that utility is so unique and so non-direct, I can say, okay, yes. And then the

00:20:25.840 sports fan thing that you're mentioning is if the healthy version of this is religious communities

00:20:33.640 or cultural communities, that would be like the pornography version of this, where it's

00:20:37.980 just faking what it feels like to have a community that would be of any utility to you. It's just

00:20:43.620 masturbating this idea of I'm part of a cultural group when it's not really, it's just a sports 0.96

00:20:50.060 team. It's not going to help impart like values to your family or your kids, but it is fulfilling

00:20:56.320 sort of an ancestral need there. Okay. I'll agree with that. I would also say it warrants a separate

00:21:02.320 category because the tactics in terms of tapping into that are quite different. So it's about finding

00:21:09.180 the right signalers. And of course, bonus points, if it's like a deep cut signaler that only insiders

00:21:15.580 would know. And you see this a lot, for example, with cryptic bumper stickers that people put on

00:21:21.240 their cars. And I see these all the time. And I'm like, I know that this is this kind of thing.

00:21:26.800 And I wish I knew what it was. And I always try to Google them and it's really annoying.

00:21:31.000 Or you even see this with cultural groups, like Mormons with garments, where if you know what to 0.98

00:21:36.080 look for, you can tell someone's wearing their garments, but you probably don't know if you're an

00:21:40.660 outsider. So you feel this extra camaraderie. It's a powerful dynamic.

00:21:43.800 Yeah. One thing I wanted to close this out with, because I think a lot of people,

00:21:47.600 they hear this and they're like, oh, that's like an overly utilitarian way of viewing other humans.

00:21:52.740 That's really immoral to just put people in these simplistic categories. And I think that's very

00:21:57.660 much a character reinforcing friend attitude. The type of person who over-associates with character

00:22:03.020 reinforcing friends. Classic.

00:22:04.960 Right. But I guess what I'd say is I actually think it's very immoral to take that position

00:22:09.040 because I think that a lot of people get the aesthetic of being a moral person confused

00:22:16.640 with actually doing good in the world. Our lives are very short. Every unit of time we have,

00:22:23.040 every interaction we have is an opportunity for us to enact the sort of change in the world we want

00:22:29.920 or make the world better along some specific line. You get so many units of good you can do for the world

00:22:35.840 a day. And that is, I think, what a person's quality of character should be modeled off of,

00:22:42.940 especially when they do things that seem to hurt in the moment or that would cause a negative

00:22:47.780 judgment. So I'd say it's very much if you're in a relationship with someone, but you know that

00:22:51.280 relationship is toxic and hurting them, the right thing to do is to leave that relationship.

00:22:56.920 The wrong thing to do is to stay in that relationship because that's what a quote unquote good

00:23:02.320 person, the aesthetic of being a good person would do. Yet I think that all of our friends,

00:23:08.400 even the ones that aren't actively toxic, if you're in a relationship with them for a character

00:23:12.060 reinforcing reason, because you're doing it to tell a story of how you're a good person,

00:23:17.260 then that is taking from you optimization that you could put into the world towards making a world

00:23:22.920 concretely a better place. Yeah.

00:23:25.880 And I think that some of the worst types of people, if you want to know the people who are

00:23:30.860 able to commit often the most evil are the ones who have in their brain, I am a good person.

00:23:38.240 Ask, what does a good person do in this moment? Yeah.

00:23:41.680 Right. Because what you are asking when you ask that is what does narratively a good person do in

00:23:47.060 this moment? Yeah.

00:23:48.280 The really dangerous thing about having that mindset is you begin to define the types of things you have

00:23:55.660 done in your past and the types of things people in whatever cultural group you're in as

00:24:00.460 thematically good, which can make it impossible to see when the group you're in begins to do evil

00:24:06.980 things. So here's the one last thing I'd like you to help me work through. And actually, maybe you

00:24:13.320 won't be able to, but other people can if they watch this and help us in the comments. One of our

00:24:17.960 friends who I really love and respect mostly because she and I hold super different views who I'm talking

00:24:23.840 about, we love her so much. She was like, when I told her this model of friendship, what about love?

00:24:30.140 There are just some people that I unconditionally love for who they are. And I, we talked about it.

00:24:37.340 So love is an emotion we evolved as part of our from our cultural perspective. An emotion you evolved

00:24:43.600 is something that can fire randomly, basically. Yeah.

00:24:47.160 Love can force you to form a pair bond with someone. And I guess you could like, I don't want

00:24:53.060 you as a kid in the room use the M word, but you could M that, that emotional subset, but that is

00:24:59.180 really not meaningful, not in a wider context. And we talk in our books about how love actually works,

00:25:07.540 right? Love appears to be emotion that originally evolved to get us to not kill our genetic offspring,

00:25:13.060 basically form sort of long-term relationships with someone. Then it got hijacked because evolution

00:25:18.640 is a cheap programmer. So it'll just hijack a preexisting system. When we started forming

00:25:22.800 monogamous pair bonds to reinforce those, we go into this in other podcasts, or we'll do a whole

00:25:29.100 podcast just on how love works. But the reality is love is an emotion. It's an emotion that we feel

00:25:33.820 today because our ancestors who felt it when, in, when presented with certain environmental stimuli

00:25:40.280 had more surviving offspring than the ones that didn't. It is no true mystical Norse compass to

00:25:46.280 anything. That's anything then to summarize, you would argue that what she is really experiencing

00:25:54.320 when she maintains friendships because she loves them for her, it is the utility of experiencing the

00:26:02.140 good feeling of love when she interacts. Well, I might argue it's more of a cultural thing. So keep in

00:26:08.000 mind the friend that she's mentioning here is a secular Quaker. She came from a Quaker tradition and

00:26:14.000 Quaker tradition sees truth is coming from your emotion as coming inside you. So it would make perfect

00:26:22.380 sense that somebody of the Quaker cultural tradition would see your emotions, especially a strong emotion

00:26:28.220 like love as a sign of something beyond that emotion, a sign of some almost supernatural truth to the

00:26:37.220 relationship. Whereas we be coming from a Calvinist cultural tradition and seeing both positive and

00:26:43.760 negative emotions as things that can lead you astray would not, we'd have a high level of suspicion for

00:26:51.700 that. Yes. I love you. And I love that little bumper car rider behind you. I can see the lights going. I

00:27:00.280 really like talking about this. I love this theory of friendship. And I'm keen to add to it like three

00:27:05.280 seems like so few. So we can add to the canon over time. That love it. Yeah. Maybe that needs to be

00:27:12.640 something for like parasocial forms of friendship. I feel like we hopefully over time can add more to

00:27:18.220 the canon. It feels like there could be more than just three categories. So I love talking about this

00:27:23.720 because we always have a chance of finding something new when we do, but yeah, let's hopefully talk

00:27:29.340 about it soon. Allow our friendships to be perverted by love. Let's never let that happen.

00:27:38.340 I love you, Malcolm. Even though we don't value it. Even though I don't value it, I, for whatever

00:27:43.260 reason, feel that way about you. It's only natural, right? We've been in a relationship for a long time.

00:27:48.000 It's only natural. Yeah. It's only natural. That's the problem. That's the problem, Malcolm.

00:27:53.720 It makes me feel good to say that. So I'm just using you to, because we're all wretched. We're 0.71

00:27:59.800 all fallen. We all bend our ideal moral framework due to the fact that we're still human. And we

00:28:08.780 shouldn't overly beat ourselves up for being human. And we should allow ourselves to indulge in little

00:28:16.520 emotions here or there. If overall, it increases our efficiency. And that's what I tell myself. That's

00:28:22.140 the wretched little lie I tell myself when I say, Simone, I love you. And I'm really happy

00:28:27.140 we did another fun episode.

00:28:29.000 I love you too, Malcolm. And it's disgusting.

Based Camp - July 24, 2023

Based Camp： Friends are a Pointless Indulgence

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