In this episode, we discuss the Danish government's anti-ghetto policy and how we should implement similar laws in the United States. We also discuss the recent case of Anwar El Ghazaleh, who was sentenced to 15 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit.
00:06:24.000because they they know that people are lying that much that this is the only way they can actually
00:06:28.980functionally catch people and you have to file your taxes every month instead of every year
00:06:33.600like imagine if the irs had to have a budget for field agents to just literally like visit
00:06:39.120virtually every business on a well i mean they're gonna need that if we keep accepting people from
00:06:44.440countries where that's normal into our country yeah right like yeah i know at this point i kind1.00
00:06:49.660I wish that we just had an, honestly, like our interactions with Sunat is like tedious as they1.00
00:06:54.400can be. I was like, all right, guys, you're, you're doing it. This is good. You're doing your
00:06:59.220job. Yeah. Yeah. There was, there was some comfort in that. That's a very fair point,
00:07:03.440but yeah, I mean, I do, what I do like about Denmark is that they are, they're trying so hard
00:07:09.960when all these other countries, like, you know, in Japan, it's almost impossible to immigrate.
00:07:13.500It's, it's almost impossible to immigrate to Australia, which basically doesn't accept
00:07:18.700asylum seekers, nor does Hungary, nor does, I mean, Poland, I think, is more restrictive too.
00:07:23.300Japan made it easier to immigrate for a while, and now they're making it more restrictive again.
00:07:27.840Yeah, well, and yeah, but like it's, those are just basically one policy which you see across
00:07:33.320many of these countries that I just mentioned, for example, is just nobody. No one comes. We're
00:07:37.600not allowing it to happen. What I find interesting about Denmark and what we might be able to learn
00:07:42.080from them is there may be ways to accept people in to try to help people to give an opportunity
00:07:48.780to those who want to opt into your culture and opt into your world and contribute to your economy
00:07:55.140they can come they can help and if they're not going to help then let's get rid of this also0.95
00:08:01.000i think it's really this what makes them unique is this especially this ghetto policy of we are0.86
00:08:06.860not going to have as they put it now more diplomatically parallel societies in our country
00:08:12.520where there are just these whole zones that don't feel like like Denmark and there are so many of
00:08:21.860these zones in the United States too in some ways growing up I really liked them like it was so cool
00:08:28.500when we lived in Miami for a while where like it really didn't feel like Miami or like the United
00:08:33.220States. Cause you'd get in a car and like your Uber driver doesn't speak any English and you'd
00:08:38.400go shopping and no one speaks any English and everywhere you walk, no one speaks any English.
00:08:42.200And you're like, this is weird, but interesting. Then we've had Chinatowns forever where it
00:08:47.620totally feels like another country. Like Oakland's Chinatown had like a pretty good concentration of
00:08:52.540that in the San Francisco Bay area. Plus there's the San Francisco Chinatown, which could feel
00:08:56.780like that in certain parts of it. So like there are parts of it that I think are cool, but if you
00:09:01.820have that with increased poverty and crime it gets bad and actually that's kind of how this
00:09:08.960works with Denmark it's not like oh if you have some kind of cultural flair you can't be here
00:09:14.860it's based on the statistical nexus of bad things I'll get into it but like the the primary thing
00:09:21.760with Denmark in terms of what differentiates them is their asylum status has shifted from
00:09:27.660just being like, okay, we're going to help you. You can be here for a while, and then we're going
00:09:33.440to get you back home. They have very low asylum recognition rates, and then they also have strict
00:09:39.900self-sufficiency requirements. You can't just go there and leech off the state as easily as you1.00
00:09:46.360could historically in Sweden or as you can in Germany and France. Also, they are more relatively
00:09:53.400open to skilled laborers which is a really common thing among many strict immigration countries0.56
00:09:58.320but they're really strict with people who are both non-skilled but also non-eu and this is one
00:10:06.000of the pivotal things about denmark's immigration policy where they they have different policies
00:10:12.220if you are western or if you are not western and we're going to get back to how that's going for
00:10:19.120them because probably pretty well it's it's going well for them but somebody doesn't like it and is0.98
00:10:26.220trying to stop it i wonder if you can guess who we've been fucked by the pope for the love of god0.98
00:10:32.620context buzz off the new pope is apparently chill af jesus said i shall not bogart salvation heaven0.99
00:10:41.880is dead asleep fam ocasio cortez 2024 i need one of you go to rome and brainwash the pope into a
00:10:49.320hardcore religious conservative overnight note in this case it's only downstream of the pope's0.56
00:10:53.960push for unfettered immigration in terms of the eu pushing for this and the laws of the eu
00:10:58.920pushing it on non-catholic majority countries even just as a side note because i didn't know
00:11:05.480where to put this in the episode but i had this revelation yesterday where we did the episode
00:11:09.720and we had a few people in the comments who were like oh the holocaust didn't happen or whatever
00:11:15.080and i got very confused by this assertion because you know like i have grandparents
00:11:21.100simone has grandparents and our grandparents fought in the western theater right so like we
00:11:26.620are aware like from their own stories i asked simone about this i mean is it normal to like
00:11:33.080talk about seeing the camps or hearing about the camps because they had if you didn't see them
00:11:38.200personally you would have heard other people who had seen them and i had this realization
00:11:42.660where i was like oh my god what are the two things that are most common in people who deny0.85
00:11:49.280the holocaust and it's either they're from broken families e.g it's very common in black communities
00:11:54.800where they don't have fathers as frequently and in catholic communities who are recent immigrants0.50
00:12:01.060in most catholic countries didn't actually fight in world war ii or at least fight meaningfully
00:12:07.340against the the ends specifically ireland didn't fight spain didn't fight france was immediately
00:12:14.300conquered italy was on their side and latin america was largely uninvolved so if you're from
00:12:19.880any of these countries you wouldn't have grandparents who were involved in this now i'm
00:12:24.680not saying they're all the descendants of cowards and everything but it just makes sense something
00:12:29.220that seems so confusing to me it's like didn't you hear stories about it when you were growing
00:12:32.480up from your grandparents and i was like oh no they probably didn't either because they're from
00:12:36.760broken families or they're from families that were not involved in the war but yeah they literally
00:12:43.600have this is how their explicit non-western targeting works so if you're an immigrant or
00:12:48.360a descendant this isn't just first generations from a country outside the eu you are considered
00:12:54.700non-western so this includes the middle east north africa pakistan and turkey but it doesn't
00:13:03.100include for example like the united states canada australia like generally western countries even
00:13:08.420if they're non-eu countries the uk those are all like fine they're like they're western which is
00:13:13.200i think quite interesting so they really are looking for a cultural match and here's how
00:13:17.320their vulnerable residential areas or parallel societies policy works first it came out of their
00:13:25.360initial 2018 like they kind of had this crash out in 2018 where they were just so done with
00:13:34.480immigrants and it was that year that they released the the progenitor of this called0.89
00:13:38.920their ghetto package and they literally called it the ghetto package the ghetto package okay yes
00:13:44.220and they they had to they decided to officially drop the explicit term ghetto in 2021 because
00:13:50.960they considered it stigmatizing and then they replaced that with vulnerable residential areas
00:13:58.480and parallel societies but i still even though they did that the fact that they started out by
00:14:05.680calling them ghettos the ghetto package all know that their ghettos is enough for me and i'm so0.89
00:14:12.060with that no one wants ghettos people in the ghetto don't want ghettos okay like they might0.96
00:14:16.860want cool cultural enclaves but they don't want ghettos and this is is this framed under larger0.63
00:14:23.760policies they have called one denmark without parallel societies like basically if you want0.97
00:14:28.740to be in denmark freaking be in denmark don't half-ass it and what happens is every year
00:14:35.620they publish this list that identifies crummy social housing neighborhoods and then it applies
00:14:42.920graduated and increasingly coercive measures to them if they stay on the naughty list and it's
00:14:50.680very data-driven it focuses on socioeconomic metrics and crime metrics and ethnic composition0.56
00:14:56.460which is how they're kind of getting in trouble and this parallel society which I'm reminding you0.84
00:15:04.120means ghetto and they explicitly said that earlier so I should just call it ghettos a ghetto as far
00:15:09.980they're concerned is both vulnerable and more than 50 percent of residents are immigrants or
00:15:16.800descendants from non-western countries that is outside the eu uk usa canada australia new zealand
00:15:23.000so you could have a vulnerable society but if it's all like brit british expats this is not
00:15:31.760going to end up on the danger list do you see what i'm saying like they are targeting they're
00:15:37.600they're being very explicit about like integration with Western society,
00:15:42.080which is interesting. And I did, I just, I didn't, I didn't know,
00:15:45.660like my progressive programming. I didn't know you could do that.
00:15:48.060Can you do that? Are you allowed to do that? We're going to get to that.
00:15:51.000But I didn't know anyone had the balls to do this.0.97
00:15:54.180This is very interesting. And okay.0.98
00:15:56.020So first this is how they identify a vulnerable area and anyone could be in a
00:15:59.860vulnerable area. It could be all people who've lived in Denmark for hundreds of
00:16:04.760years. It could be people from, you know, Germany or Australia. It has to have at least two out of
00:16:11.520these four criteria met on a two year or more basis. So more than 40% of the residents aged
00:16:17.86018 to 64 are neither employed nor in school already. That's like a, that's pretty generous1.00
00:16:24.680in my opinion. If nearly half of the people in an area are neats or like unemployed and not
00:16:32.560studying that's that's a sick area so i think they should be a little more strict with that
00:16:38.000but it's a start also so next to criteria is that the share of residents convicted of penal law
00:16:44.600weapons or drug offenses is more than three times the national average totally fair i would have it
00:16:49.380two times but whatever also more than 60 percent of residents age 30 to 59 have only primary school
00:16:56.860education so like if it's we'll say an unemployed crime crime-ridden neighborhood oh wait that's
00:17:03.920already two criteria but if it's like a crime-ridden neighborhood but everyone has graduate degrees and
00:17:08.400they're employed it's okay all right and then average gross income for residents aged 15 to 64
00:17:15.360is less than 55 percent of the regional average so really they're targeting poor uneducated non-working
00:17:23.400crime-ridden areas. That screams ghetto. So I think they're being super reasonable with this.0.92
00:17:28.980And they also have this, even if you are not super immigrant heavy, you can still fall into
00:17:36.840some kind of program. They have a separate prevention areas list that they introduced in
00:17:42.5002021 for earlier intervention. So it only has thresholds of over 30% non-Western share.
00:17:50.180So this isn't like all or nothing, but here's what they do with the ghettos that they've identified. If a place has been designated as a parallel society, AKA ghetto for at least five consecutive years. So again, I would just say two, I really don't care. Two consecutive years. Here's what happens. Their kids get a remedial intervention. Basically they have to get a Danish level test before they start school and they're offered preparatory language training.0.58
00:18:18.140so they're like, dude, you've got to learn our language. All children aged one year and older
00:18:22.740living in a vulnerable area have to attend preschool for at least 25 hours a week.
00:18:27.240And that has to be focused on Danish language traditions and norms. And parents may provide
00:18:33.820the equivalent instruction at home instead, but they have to be monitored for that. And parents
00:18:38.680who refuse to preschool their children along these lines can lose the normal Danish child benefit,
00:18:44.300which is good i would be more strict than that but it's a start yeah i wouldn't give them child
00:18:49.000benefits at all what are they doing is these yeah i mean they're being very generous but still i say
00:18:54.740it's a start and it's inspiring you can learn from it just do the evil strict version of this and
00:18:59.920you're fine in terms of adults they're coaxed into integrating so housing association meetings
00:19:05.860in vulnerable areas have to be held in danish they can't be in whatever like the predominant
00:19:10.420languages. Residents, and this is big because keep in mind, like there are plenty of communities
00:19:16.080in the United States where they're trying to change languages to the immigrant community's
00:19:22.100language because they're trying to be so accommodating. So I appreciate that they're
00:19:25.540pushing for, no, this is our country. You're going to use our language. Residents are also
00:19:30.760subject to mandatory Danish language and active citizenship integration programs. So they're not
00:19:36.760only being taught Danish, but they're also being taught Danish societal norms. And there are
00:19:41.480participation expectations. You can't just know our norms. You have to conform with them. And if
00:19:48.960you don't participate, you can get reductions in your social benefits on top of already lower
00:19:54.600integration allowance rates compared to higher standard social assistance. So Danish citizens
00:20:00.660who are not immigrants are getting more social services than people who are immigrants, to your
00:20:05.640earlier point. And then my favorite part is that housing has changed. So the social housing share
00:20:12.940in these neighborhoods has to be reduced to a maximum of 40% in redevelopment areas. And that's
00:20:20.380a 60% reduction target. So they will literally just demolish social housing blocks and empty0.60
00:20:28.000buildings out and convert them into private or cooperative ownership. Like it's forced
00:20:32.400a gentrification of ghettos, which I've never seen done before, especially not on a government
00:20:38.720level. And you can imagine how people would freak out if that was done in the United States. So
00:20:43.900again, I've got to tip my hat to them. This is impressive, especially for EU country. And they
00:20:49.040will evict entire families from social housing and relocate them to a different part of Denmark
00:20:54.840if just one member commits a crime, which I think is great because we've been talking a lot
00:21:01.620internally and among the base camp community about high trust societies and the importance of
00:21:06.680basically, you know, people being encouraged to self-police. And this is a great kind of policy
00:21:14.280you can implement within a government that will force citizens to self-police. Like if I know I'm
00:21:19.180going to lose my sweet housing deal because my brother is messing around, I'm going to be so on
00:21:27.040you know what i mean and it's it's yeah it encourages communities to handle but
00:21:31.600what yeah what what is the level at which the community is just demolished how did that that
00:21:36.200or do they not do that they oh they'll just evict people they'll evict people and demolish
00:21:43.300the buildings and then give that land or or facilitate contracts going to companies that
00:21:50.260will develop them as private co-ops for like bougie people i love that too yeah yeah you know
00:21:56.960like i feel like as kids who grew up in the 90s a really common plot in films was this folksy old
00:22:03.860bookstore is going to get steamrolled over by a private equity company that's going to build
00:22:08.340high rises and this is just denmark being like yes we will no let us help you we've got you here
00:22:16.020we're doing this but i think i mean if i was implementing a policy like this along with the
00:22:21.380eviction i would like revoke citizen status for everyone i agree yeah and i asked about that i'm
00:22:27.760like why are they why are they not also being deported i'm i'm baffled as to why they would
00:22:33.520not just deport people and this is something that does happen in places like japan if you commit
00:22:39.700crimes you're out we don't like you and i don't i think what they might be like is well what if0.79
00:22:45.260they're second generation immigrants i'm like i don't care if someone's a second generation0.98
00:22:48.020immigrant deport them right like honestly like i think it we should get to a point bring back0.51
00:22:52.940penal colonies like i keep saying right and this is well i mean i think trump has you know when0.67
00:22:58.760people keep freaking out about them sending deportees to places like haiti when they're
00:23:03.500not haitian i'm like that's you know but i mean for like american citizens too what we know i i
00:23:09.260mean that too like let's deport more people to haiti like that's our penal colony just deport
00:23:13.900them there like it's it's a it's a pvp server okay like i mean after a while it would probably
00:23:19.660improve haiti so i mean like look at australia actually australia is doing great now relatively
00:23:25.860speaking and they now actually are one of the most western countries when it comes to immigration0.98
00:23:32.220yeah because they're so good they can't let any of the undesirables in meanwhile they were like0.98
00:23:37.960literally the trash can of the world for a while. So look, that could, Haiti could be next. Let's1.00
00:23:43.840do it. I'm saying like, this is, this doesn't have to be about immigrants. We, there was this long
00:23:49.860analysis. I can't remember if, I think Scott Alexander published it. Maybe it was Camille
00:23:54.680about crime and incarceration of what actually works, right? Is it deterrent? Is it deterrence
00:24:00.700that scares people away from doing crimes? Or is it the fact that they've been removed from society?
00:24:06.160And it was just so clear from the data that the benefit of incarceration or punishment isn't to scare people away from doing bad things. It's literally to take them away. We need them gone. And the more they can just be removed from a society, the better off that society is.
00:24:26.360and i don't want these people to suffer i'm all i'm fine with just like well i mean if they
00:24:31.820suffering on people around them right like they are the cause it is it is their culture it is
00:24:37.920people like them that leads to the suffering yeah so if you move them to an environment where
00:24:42.520everyone's like them then it forces them all to either have to improve or live in the hellscape
00:24:46.960they've created the problem is is that you think oh they will improve when what we really see i0.87
00:24:52.660mean again this is why so many countries in africa are as poor as they are is they just don't they
00:24:57.900just keep scamming each other scamming each other scamming each other faking projects faking doing
00:25:02.640this faking the construction faking that until the whole society is just a hellscape i don't know i
00:25:07.200mean australia i don't know australia's history we actually have a lot of australian listeners
00:25:12.000maybe they can explain what they've been taught in history class about how they turned from a
00:25:15.360penal colony into a successful country but whatever i here is is what what happened though
00:25:23.520because this is relatively new right so just from 2018 to 2022 these vulnerable residential areas
00:25:30.840which are pretty bad per the criteria that i listed off right they fell from 43 so there were
00:25:36.62043 of these in denmark in 2018 to 17 in 2022 wow this works like you can i mean it might be because
00:25:47.680you're like evicting and demolishing social housing but it works parallel societies dropped
00:25:53.260from 29 to 10 in the same period remember vulnerable neighborhoods residential areas
00:25:59.880don't have to be immigrant based but like even during this time even like non-immigrant communities
00:26:06.180became a lot well reduced in frequency i guess or yeah and i'm okay with this being applied to
00:26:12.560redneck communities to anything right like you you apply this anywhere where you have a genuine0.64
00:26:17.080parallel society if it's a ghetto if it's a blight if it's not a good place to live0.75
00:26:21.220gentrify like forced gentrification all the way this is great so i alluded to someone trying to
00:26:28.340resist this the eu is is trying to like literally block this the eu is trying to yeah eu is so
00:26:35.500evil yes so that this whole parallel societies program despite the fact that they took out the
00:26:41.720word ghetto and it's working yeah anyway the parallel societies program is facing legal
00:26:49.520challenges on eu discrimination grounds you see the explicit use of the non-western ethnic
00:26:57.100criterion for triggering the strongest measures that is to say the parallel society aka ghetto
00:27:04.000designation and redevelopment has been criticized by the eu in february of last year an eu court of
00:27:11.580justice advocate general opined that it constitutes direct discrimination based on ethnic origin and
00:27:19.380obviously yes but we all of all of our countries are built on that that's like yes i mean like
00:27:30.500that was the point that's why they made the designation because there's this one group
00:27:35.160and i can also share that data groups are different pretending that different groups
00:27:39.220the data is so freaking clear on that and we will cover that but it just oh so but in december of
00:27:44.920last year the court of justice issued statements indicating that ethnic criteria breach eu law
00:27:50.620and they recommend for danish courts to change their ways and we're still waiting for final
00:27:57.980rulings on very specific cases of people trying to like contest all this and i recommend you do
00:28:04.960what i tell you to or else yeah because what's happening is i'm sure some social justice
00:28:11.780non-profit has funded people who are being evicted say like one of their kids murders someone and
00:28:17.940they get they kicked out of their social housing and they're like i've had injustice done and some
00:28:23.280non-profit comes in and is like hey why aren't you letting families kids murder people in their
00:28:28.420neighborhoods why are you kicking this is literally where leftism is at this point right like
00:28:33.080there's a reason why that one why that army hammer movie has been very successful people are like
00:28:39.640are you kidding me like we're not allowed you're telling me that if and i again the criteria i
00:28:46.640think i think we need to go full army hammer on the problem and just again that is why that's
00:28:53.820that's where we've got it for people who don't know the reason army hammer was canceled and like
00:28:57.680disappeared from the public was because it came out that he had a boar fetish and he wasn't in
00:29:03.440movies forever now he's in this new movie where he hunts down like gravis and i'm like just no no
00:29:08.340he doesn't he's so he he's the move the plot of the movie is he's this ex-military dude living in
00:29:13.900the eu and he doesn't only murder the the people who committed these crimes he also goes after
00:29:21.340officials who don't do anything about it because this the european and i think broader anger isn't
00:29:29.660just about like migrants committing crimes because to a certain extent you're like look
00:29:34.780they're coming from these circumstances a lot of this is out of their control like i don't want1.00
00:29:38.420them here but i don't like i i expect they're the scorpion they're gonna do what they do it's a
00:29:43.320scorpion what do you expect right like your whole thing but it's these people you need to go full
00:29:49.780army hammer on the solution yeah but it's the officials it's the officials who know that
00:29:54.220certain groups are disproportionately committing crimes and hurting their local societies and then
00:29:59.540showing up to denmark and being like you can't do that that's discriminatory even though the stats
00:30:05.500are super clear but yeah despite despite the fact that that the eu's trying like dexter but for
00:30:10.800immigrants like dexter but for immigrants and for officials who turn a blind eye or even attempt to
00:30:17.300suppress criticism of policies that are leading societies to fall apart and lose essentially
00:30:22.440everybody wanted this everybody wanted this movie everyone's like i'm so fucking done with this0.74
00:30:26.720and i think that that's what we're going to start seeing in the eu i mean i expect more0.78
00:30:33.520vigilante justice especially against officials sort of going into the future because the problem
00:30:39.320feels so intractable at this point and i think you know where this is like most effective is
00:30:48.740specifically at the lower level people who are initiating things like the challenge to denmark
00:30:54.940and stuff like that right when people don't feel that they can go out and try to enforce this or
00:31:00.440there is some sort of negative externality to them other than just status seeking you'll start to see
00:31:06.000it happening less yeah no i'm not i'm not advocating for anything i'm just saying that
00:31:11.340somebody's going to reason through this and think that because that's sort of the position that
00:31:16.360people are being forced in when they're voting for these programs these programs are being enacted
00:31:21.620and they are working and then people are still like no let's keep in the the the greatest right
00:31:27.740like come on yeah yeah i agree well and i mean yeah there's this really weird resistance taking
00:31:35.500place in europe like the netherlands and the uk are to a lesser extent trying to sort of push back
00:31:42.520in a way similar to what denmark is doing but not even close i mean denmark goes beyond new zealand
00:31:47.800or sorry the netherlands exam-based national system where they're trying to like sort of test
00:31:52.920people's ability to integrate into the netherlands language and society and traditions and the uk
00:32:00.000also has the citizenship test because Denmark also has these area specific. I just, I love the
00:32:05.940ghetto policy and the child mandates and the housing redevelopment tied to specific ethnic0.75
00:32:11.500mandates. And then even Sweden, which historically was so open to immigration, leading to huge gang0.94
00:32:19.560problems, fire bombings, integration issues. In fact, we're going to have a guest come on later1.00
00:32:25.020this month, I think maybe for like one main episode and then one weekend episode. And in
00:32:29.720one of the weekend episode he he said he could talk to us about these like integration towns
00:32:35.900where they're trying now to like teach immigrant groups to integrate in meaningful ways like
00:32:43.580he was describing them giving lessons to like literally learn how to use ovens because they0.96
00:32:50.600were lighting fires on the floors in their apartments and causing buildings to burn down1.00
00:32:56.700i'm sorry you shouldn't be accepting immigrants who are that out of out of yeah so i mean look0.98
00:33:03.380let's just say denmark is fearing better than sweden right now okay then i don't see denmark0.98
00:33:08.300like this is how you use an oven like they're now just trying to get people to like hey your
00:33:13.720kidneys to speak some some a little more fluently but the outcomes are are pretty clear so first off0.94
00:33:21.780In Denmark, despite all of these interventions, they still see more crime from non-Western1.00
00:33:31.820So let's see, they have high crime indices for male descendants from Lebanon, that's1.00
00:33:36.9403 to 4x a general population, Somalia, Syria, and Iraq at 2 to 3x, and then young male non-Western
00:33:44.940descendants have markedly higher rates, like 13% of certain 17 to 24 cohorts were convicted
00:33:52.260in their peak data periods. And this is strongest in violent crime, certain sexual offenses,
00:33:59.900property crime, and traffic violations. So first off, I feel like, I mean, I guess EU's0.55
00:34:07.060non-discrimination policies have nothing to do with like, is it discrimination when a group
00:34:12.460statistically and clearly even within despite your more punitive measures bro it's discriminating
00:34:18.480when when multiple people see you stab a white kid to death it's still discrimination if you're
00:34:23.000punished for it right like yeah this is where the left is right now it has nothing to do with
00:34:27.940whether or not they actually are a negative externality on other groups or whether or not
00:34:31.840they actually did something criminal it's just about what really the destruction of western
00:34:37.420civilization like that's that's where we are with like the eu and stuff like that at this point0.99
00:34:41.480Yeah, but I just, I wanted to make that clear that like, despite all these measures, Danish citizens and even immigrant groups are still being disproportionately hurt by these non-Western immigrant participants in their society.0.97
00:34:59.800And they're super not wrong for being like, no, we're going to hold you to a higher standard because you have a worse reputation and statistically you're doing worse stuff.0.97
00:35:07.100i mean like if like we as as parents understand that some of our kids are way more likely to like
00:35:13.560vandalize our house and draw on our walls and do stuff like that right like we know that and so we
00:35:19.240keep a closer eye on them that we don't hate that kid we just know they they just tend to do some
00:35:26.060stuff yeah so like we would if if you know in denmark you can have laws where groups that are
00:35:32.300more stabby like even if a normal person can walk around with a knife you know you shouldn't let a
00:35:37.400seek walk around with a knife oh my god okay right what i should say though is despite this fact0.89
00:35:44.500that non-western immigrants and descendants of immigrants in denmark are more likely to be0.82
00:35:52.260committing crimes they still have in denmark overall public better public safety and lower
00:35:58.740escalation of gang violence than say sweden which saw all these sharp rises and bombings and
00:36:05.560shootings linked to immigrant background networks and denmark's earlier strict controls on numbers
00:36:11.280and proactive area interventions do correlate with fewer visible no-go style problems although0.86
00:36:17.520i've only really heard of no-go style like no-go neighborhoods in sweden sweden's just so screwed
00:36:24.220by that and then there are also similar over representation patterns in the netherlands like
00:36:30.520some cbs data found that second generation both foreign parents people were committing crimes at
00:36:39.2404.7 times the native suspect rate which was highest among moroccan and caribbean and somali
00:36:46.480origins so again non-western per denmark's qualifications and same in in germany and france
00:36:54.220But anyway, there is a reduced number of high crime convictions in Denmark, and there are fewer dangerous areas.
00:37:01.220And as I said earlier, they reduced the number of areas that even met their criteria for ghettos, a.k.a. parallel societies, since 2018.
00:37:09.480So that's huge. Also, there is a lower strain on their social services than in other countries.
00:37:16.480So there are definitely gaps between their immigrants and their native citizens, but
00:37:22.160it's not as bad as places in like Germany or France or Sweden, for example, where they
00:38:09.480And if you're not, then you either get deported or at least you lose the right to vote.
00:38:16.300You have to lose the right to vote if you are not a net payer into the system.
00:38:20.860I think that should just be the case whether you're an immigrant or immigrant descendant or not.
00:38:25.660But they have definitely, here's another really big thing, addressed the concentrated costs that are associated with problem areas by gentrifying them forcefully, which is pretty meaningful.
00:38:36.140which has reduced this like pressure that you'll see on Germany and France where they have these
00:38:42.640areas that are just incredibly expensive to try to remediate. I mean, that program that I described
00:38:47.220earlier that we're hopefully going to learn more about from one of our guests sounds incredibly0.88
00:38:51.360expensive and just ridiculous. So basically Denmark is doing better off. There are countries
00:38:57.740that are stricter around the world, but Denmark is doing its best to help. And I feel like we can
00:39:03.640learn a lot from it. And this has moderated somewhat my view of how to manage immigration.
00:39:10.560Because remember, originally we were like, okay, you can choose one thing, generous social services
00:39:15.620or open borders. But then we realized that if you have open borders, but no social services,
00:39:22.660eventually you'll get to a point where there are so many immigrants that they'll just devote0.88
00:39:25.880generous social services in. So then I was like, well, then screw that. We can't have open borders.1.00
00:39:31.200But maybe based on this, one, I'm like a really big fan of identifying areas that are really not doing well and just changing them forcefully, being like, no, you're not allowed to turn into a slum.0.95
00:39:49.360We're not going to provide social housing here anymore.
00:39:52.460We're going to reduce the percentage because we can't have this become this hole in the larger area.
00:39:58.980And I do think that everyone benefits. If you're in social housing, you don't want to be concentrated in a ghetto. Like your mom always said with purchasing houses, you want to be in the worst house in a nice neighborhood. That's how you know you're in a good investment.
00:40:13.020So I also think the general policy, like if you care about vulnerable people and asylum seekers and migrants, you want them to be integrated into good communities with low crime and people who are doing well, because then they're more likely to themselves do well.