00:00:00.000Hello, Simone! I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be pulling on one
00:00:03.320of those threads where my mind notices a pattern and then I start pulling on it and I'm like,
00:00:09.080oh my god, this pattern is so much more robust than I expected it would be, so much larger than
00:00:15.160I expected it would be, and it kind of changes how I think about things at a civilizational level
00:00:20.560and it's something that we need to talk about. I began to think about like various cultural
00:00:25.320movements throughout the last hundred years so what do blues rock and roll rap punk goth grunge
00:00:35.860mod techno cyberpunk reggae heavy metal house music rave and acid music new romantic straight
00:00:43.560edge and industrial music have in common here i'm going to note other things that have this in
00:00:48.960common okay okay of of the music varieties that don't have this one thing in common or cultural
00:00:56.380movements or stylistic movements christmas classics unfortunately that would also fit the
00:01:04.180pattern but are you sure yeah with the one potential alternative that i'll get to in a second
00:01:10.420then you have the other what what music what stylistic patterns don't fit this pattern okay
00:01:16.960on earth the only popular ones on an international stage um are ones that come out of japan ones that
00:01:24.660come out of korea or reggaeton maybe out of out of the past hundred years these are the only ones
00:01:31.140that don't fit this pattern now we're going to go to the second thing that fits this pattern okay
00:01:34.880because there's actually a lot okay the invention of various sports so what do soccer cricket rugby
00:01:42.820basketball baseball ice hockey lacrosse was maybe a caveat volleyball american football tennis
00:01:51.420golf field hockey boxing picket ball pool slash billiards bowling picket ball or pickleball
00:02:00.980oh oh pool might actually not fit this pattern it's a bit mixed bowling pickleball is what i
00:02:07.380said here and the only ones that don't fit this pattern clearly are cycling and then a few that
00:02:14.220come out of japan sumo judo and taekwondo so this pattern i think dressage would also fall into your
00:02:21.280criteria this pattern is was this cultural thing invented in a protestant majority country or
00:02:30.380region which is wild and the reason it's so wild is when you think of like let's say style right
00:02:39.660typically the cutting edge locations when it comes to style are catholic majority areas
00:02:45.540i typically think of like the leading sort of luxury style trend setting areas as being paris
00:02:52.940in italy right like that that's not just me right so yeah they haven't invented a single stylistic
00:03:01.060movement except for maybe reggaeton which i don't even know if people would consider that like a
00:03:06.080global phenomenon in the same way like rock and roll it's pretty big it's and then it's the same
00:03:12.780with sports right like it's not like catholic countries are bad at sports in fact they do
00:03:18.480very well within a lot of sports sectors. I mean, I, my understanding is that if you're looking at
00:03:24.220the soccer, for example, on international stage, like they clean it up. So why, why didn't they
00:03:29.560invent it? And this is something worth exploring because when you notice a pattern this loud and
00:03:36.180this strong, and, and a lot of people, and I get very frustrated with this because it's just wrong
00:03:42.140is they go oh this is really about northern versus southern european populations of the
00:03:48.720northern european populations which is the one counter example to this rule e.g they have
00:03:55.760invented no major sports or major artistic traditions in the past hundred years ireland
00:04:02.800the one catholic population in northern europe well i've got to point this out because i think
00:04:08.400that people like they they they put ireland in this bucket doesn't represent what ireland actually
00:04:16.520is culturally like culturally it actually has a lot in common with catholic countries that you
00:04:22.220don't see in protestant countries an example of this would be terrorist rates in protestant
00:04:27.600countries it is vanishingly rare in history and we'll probably do a different video on this
00:04:31.340when you are mad at the state but that you go out and kill random civilians this is actually
00:04:36.600a normal thing in catholic country throughout the past 100 years sorry if you want to dig in
00:04:41.000more yourself because i don't want to like litigate this here you've got spain colombia
00:04:47.160italy peru the philippines argentina el salvador guatemala nicaragua chile france portugal belgium
00:04:58.960as just examples of places where you've had catholic terrorist groups you do not have a
00:05:04.380single case except for maybe northern ireland in response to the catholic terrorism oh or
00:05:10.920maybe the kkk of a protestant majority terrorist group in the past hundred years so you see that
00:05:17.380another thing is although this one is a little less stable but the the graping of victims of
00:05:23.080war now we've talked in previous videos that if you look at protestant colonial areas like in the
00:05:27.600united states the puritans the cavalier backwoods you see no record of graping of captives and yet
00:05:33.020you see this constantly and note here i don't mean like barely any records i mean there isn't
00:05:40.140and the puritans were fastidious in their record keeping and everybody hated the backwoods people
00:05:44.960so if they had ever done this people accused them of every other sin under the sun we would know
00:05:49.820about it right like it's actually insane that there isn't a single recorded instance across
00:05:55.780hundreds of years of american history of this happening and note when i first learned this
00:06:00.340this is quite shocking for me to find this out as like a trend in history, because it certainly
00:06:04.500wasn't taught to me in school. People were like, well, it's probably because the castle colonies,
00:06:08.860they were much less likely to come with their families, which actually doesn't work as a
00:06:13.040pattern. Because if you look at Protestant missions, like Captain Cook's mission, where
00:06:17.080they didn't travel with their family. Yes, they had sex with native populations, but they famously0.95
00:06:22.860traded the ships and nails to do it. They engaged in, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that word0.91
00:06:27.640on a podcast alternatively i at one point asked at ai do we know of a single catholic majority
00:06:33.580colonization effort or a major journey that did not involve the graping of natives and it could
00:06:40.620only name one and it was a shipwreck when they had to live with natives that's how frequent it was
00:06:46.840but what was interesting to me because i wanted to see if ireland was actually a counter example
00:06:51.120and this is really a protestant versus catholic thing or a northern european versus southern
00:06:56.020European thing. And the Ireland example pretty concretely hits for me that no, it's actually a
00:07:02.500Protestant versus Catholic difference. And so to try to understand where it's from is really
00:07:05.840important in the same way that people see me constantly studying Jews because they seem to
00:07:10.600outcompete my people in a number of areas. So I'm like, what can I steal from their culture to make1.00
00:07:15.020my own culture stronger? It's not so I can become them into a Catholic watching this. I'm not saying
00:07:19.820become like a Protestant or become a Protestant. I'm saying try to find out exactly what causes
00:07:25.040this cultural difference so that you can steal that technology if you think that this difference
00:07:30.240is actually a bad thing either in terms of the the productivity in terms of new subcultures and new
00:07:35.120technologies and stuff like that or in terms of moral fidelity around things like SA if we look
00:07:41.400at the IRA there were actually quite a number of instances in which they would grape captives and
00:07:47.600then hide it like the ira as in that group that was active fairly recently yeah the terrorist
00:07:55.560catholic group yeah they were so with the ira it was not institutionalized in the same way that it
00:08:04.560was in like muslim controlled areas or something like that it was more that it happened frequently
00:08:10.820with no clear counterexample on the other side.
00:08:15.160In fact, I asked AI if there was any sort of large counterexample on the other side
00:08:19.960that could be seen as an equivalent to what the IRA did.
00:08:22.640And it was like, well, they did strip search people,
00:08:25.700which a lot of people complained about.
00:08:27.540And it's like, well, I can understand when there's constant bombings of civilians
00:08:31.660that you're going to strip search people.1.00
00:08:33.240That seems like a reasonable thing to do to an ethnic group that the little explodey.1.00
00:08:37.640I find it interesting how similar the IRA Catholic response to accusations of this stuff is to the Muslim one, where it's like, hey, you're graping your captives. And it's like, hey, you made us go through a metal detector in the airport, even women. That's mean. And it's like, how do you not understand that these things aren't equivalents?1.00
00:08:56.900But by the way, I will note here that of the Ropers, there are reports this was the potential grapes in Northern Ireland, but it was different because they were not systematic and they were punished and not hidden or covered up later.
00:09:12.400But yeah, with the IRA, what they did is it was more like individual actors within the IRA would do this.
00:09:18.300And then the higher ups within the IRA would attempt to hide that this was happening by disappearing victims or moving people around or forcing victims to be with their captors.
00:09:31.500It actually, like when I was reading into it, because I found it very fascinating and I wasn't aware of this before this.
00:09:36.660So you just learned about this today because I'd never heard of this.
00:09:38.960yeah i was unaware i well i just decided to start googling stuff because i was like wait do they
00:09:42.840actually fit these other patterns that we see in catholics historically and what it appears to be
00:09:48.600within the the the whole story just sounds a lot like the church sex scandal that they just dealt
00:09:55.040with at the vatican level where it wasn't like the vatican made it an institutional policy but
00:09:59.660whenever it was found it would be like covered up what is also really interesting to me is how even
00:10:06.660catholics like in our fan base respond to learning about catholic history where they're like don't
00:10:13.300talk about don't talk about the negative things can you guys not fight over here where i'm recording
00:10:18.680and that instinct aligns very much with the ira's or even the vatican's instinct which is it when
00:10:25.100there were systemic rapes happening to cover it up or not talk about it or not look at it because it
00:10:31.800could make their group look bad whereas on the opposite protestant side when our people have
00:10:38.180done bad things as i've talked about when i've talked about like my own people the backwards
00:10:42.180people repeatedly in episodes i always highlight when they did really bad things because i think
00:10:49.100like i don't know maybe this is like a difference in value system but i think that this particular
00:10:52.860difference could be upstream of a lot of the cultural differences we see in the two groups
00:10:58.380Is your instinct when you see a systemic pattern that you may not want to repeat, you say, oh, this is bad, don't do it, or say, how dare you talk about it because it makes our community look bad?
00:11:08.840And if you think, oh, the IRA isn't really that bad, the British, what did the British really do to the Irish?
00:11:14.780During the potato famine is potentially the worst of what you can say.
00:11:19.360They did, which was not giving enough aid, but they did give aid when that wasn't normal during that period, and that was hundreds of years ago.
00:11:27.640When the IRA was killing innocent civilians, what did they want their freedom to do to sell out their country and their country's future to the Vatican's agenda of endless immigration, which is what Ireland has done, which is why Ireland no longer has its own unique culture at this point?
00:11:45.980So it's very interesting to read this. So the point I'm making here is this actually appears
00:11:52.280to be a genuine Protestant versus Catholic difference. In fact, the one country that is
00:11:56.040the best counterexample to this trend is I decided to start doing this for other things as well. I
00:12:01.500was like, well, what about top video games globally, right? Where are they all made? And
00:12:07.120again, it was top video games globally. You got, it was very clear. It was either Protestant
00:12:13.140majority or it was japan or korea or china what about like poland and romania yeah the poland
00:12:20.980was the one counter example cd project red is clearly i mean one of the top producers of of
00:12:28.040high quality video games and poland has had some other video game studios that i really like the
00:12:32.180people who made frost punk are from poland and i i quite like that game i feel like every time i
00:12:36.460hear about like a really cool weird team that's still functional it's yeah in a catholic majority
00:12:42.760hell divers 2 based oh good question where
00:12:46.780the other counter example you could say is stockholm so no the other counter example you
00:12:56.240could say is ubisoft which has long had headquarters in quebec but they didn't make
00:13:00.100their top games win out of their quebec studio or during the period it was uh development was
00:13:05.560happening in quebec and spain another fun counter example is expedition 33 by claire obscure which
00:13:11.360i guess could be considered a major game that was made in france and kingdom come deliverance which
00:13:17.340was made in the czech republic so it's it's an interesting pattern that we see across the board
00:13:22.180and here i'm i'm noting all of this within the context of but catholic regions are still seen as
00:13:27.660the dominant regions in terms of like cultural authority eg paris and italy and so then the
00:13:35.160next thing i decided to look at is i was like well maybe it's an issue of population right
00:13:40.880like i wasn't sure about what the the population levels were in in the world during these periods
00:13:47.120and they're actually pretty stable in terms of like global percentages with catholics typically
00:13:52.940being around 16.5 percent and protestants typically being at around seven percent but
00:13:57.720basically this means that the catholics who were producing none of this stuff had a bit over double
00:14:02.640the population of the protestants and i'm going to note here before i go further i only just
00:14:08.040discovered this is like a shower thought today this is not something that like i went into with
00:14:13.460an agenda to make some sort of an argument and this is one of these things i have like catholic
00:14:17.600fans and they're like why do you bring up these differences so often right like they're i'm like
00:14:21.960because they're stark they tell us something about western civilization the trajectory of western
00:14:27.340civilization and they tell us something about i mean presumably like one of the things i often say0.68
00:14:33.140as someone with a protestant tradition is i look to the jews people are like why are you so obsessed
00:14:39.640with the jews why are you always like studying jewish culture and everything like that and i0.75
00:14:43.040was like because jewish culture clearly outcompetes protestant culture they produce wealthier people
00:14:49.040they produce people more likely to end up in positions of power they produce way more than us
00:14:53.540this is why with christmas music i was like it might be the one counter example if you could
00:14:57.420argue that christmas music was actually made by jews that was that's that's the common thing that's
00:15:01.600what i was in a protestant majority region the christmas songs made by jews weren't being made
00:15:06.140in israel whatever i whatever and i will note here that this is actually important to this
00:15:10.780wider argument and it's why i'm not checking the individual religions of the individual you know
00:15:15.900people involved in the creations of these movements is because we're talking about
00:15:20.920protestant majority versus catholic majority regions so some of the people involved in like
00:15:24.700the creation of punk or goth or whatever may have been catholic or in the creation of like major
00:15:30.480video game studios within Protestant-majority regions, Catholics seem to act very differently
00:15:36.100when they're in a Protestant-majority region. If we want to talk about how differently,
00:15:40.500a look at the Latin American fertility rate in the continental United States, where it is
00:15:45.180astonishingly high, if you compare it with the Latin American fertility rate anywhere in Latin
00:15:50.680America or in Catholic-majority U.S. states like Puerto Rico, or protectorates, I forget what you
00:15:57.040called puerto rico but that is the lowest fertility state in the united states whereas
00:16:00.680immigrants from that region if they live in another area hispanic immigrants in the united0.98
00:16:04.460states have a fertility rate of like 2.4 or something like that which is just like crazy high0.99
00:16:08.300so catholics don't at all behave like they normally do when they're a minority population
00:16:14.240and so i'm not focused on that as much by the way when it comes to like biases with religions i think
00:16:20.460what people are not getting right about us or what they might be getting confused about is
00:16:24.840they're so stuck with seeing religion as identity and you see religion as like an interchangeable
00:16:31.040technology and so you're obviously are like a medication right like the people who are taking
00:16:36.280we govi are getting this outcome the people who are taking ozempic are getting this outcome
00:16:39.860and you just keep like dunking on certain treatment uh situations because you see them
00:16:45.160producing outcomes you either seem to be more desirable or less desirable right it's not about
00:16:50.500this is where it comes to the jewish thing that i'm talking about here right like yeah i'm not
00:16:56.300saying like if i was looking at every religious tradition on earth and i was just like i'm going
00:16:59.960to choose the tradition that gives me the most benefits right like that seems to produce the
00:17:06.100best outcome yeah what i would look to and i think the data is just clear on this in terms of income
00:17:11.300in terms of recidivism like the rates at which people deconvert out the number of kids people
00:17:16.040have in in high tech areas especially it's clearly israel right like they've even built their own0.84
00:17:22.240well this is why there's all those chinese books titled something like how to make money like a jew
00:17:26.940like people get it you know yeah but when i look at and i think that i can i can talk like that and
00:17:33.060people don't think oh you're bashing protestantism by saying that no i'm just saying something that
00:17:38.100appears to be by the data objectively true and because of that i don't then become jewish right0.98
00:17:44.780What I do is I try to understand why the Jews are out-competing my people within those specific domains, and I try to reverse engineer and steal their cultural technology.1.00
00:17:56.740Jews are like, oh, it's so flattering that you're dissecting our culture and trying to understand it deeply.0.99
00:18:00.680And I'm like, no, you probably wouldn't think it was that flattering if you knew the history of my people, which I've pointed out in the past.0.97
00:18:07.360We have a history of doing this, specifically the Backwoods people.
00:18:09.780they would for example as a native americans they fastidiously studied the way that they farm the
00:18:15.100way that they lived and they adopt many of those techniques when they first moved into the americas
00:18:19.580in the way that a lot of other american traditions didn't because they were like well this seems to
00:18:23.760be better within this cultural and technological context so like let's understand it let's start
00:18:29.920acting this way let's start dressing this way and i feel that you know i it's important that i
00:18:34.540understand why they're and this is the same thing with catholics i'm not saying you know
00:18:39.120deconvert from catholicism over this or something like that i'm saying understand why we might be
00:18:45.360seeing this historical pattern so that you can steal the technology steal reverse engineer
00:18:51.160whatever to make your own tradition more robust sorry octavian just
00:18:56.640carry on but and i think that that's that's probably doable but it only comes downstream of
00:19:04.980properly identifying what's leading to this in the same way that if you look at and and one of
00:19:12.380the most stupid things a person could do and and this is why i have so much reactive disgust when0.96
00:19:17.320people do this is they're like oh the jews have more stuff because they're cheating right it's1.00
00:19:23.000very much like what like black people in america will do they'll be like well the whites have more0.86
00:19:27.320not not all black people like some black people are like oh like let's study these different0.91
00:19:30.420cultures why they're doing well relative to our culture and what can we take from them they'll0.98
00:19:34.760just be like well white culture stole all this stuff all those colonizers all those you know0.66
00:19:38.240whatever they took everything and it's like well then how do you how do you take things in the way0.56
00:19:42.160that they take things how did you like even if that's the case you're playing a civilizational
00:19:47.240battle with no holds barred right like even if it's the case that they somehow built a shadowy
00:19:53.780cabal that stole everything why can't how do you build your own shadowy cabal get on it yeah and i
00:20:01.280i've actually pointed out in the past the the shadowy cabal thing catholics have actually been
00:20:05.620like way better than protestants at this in terms of shadowy cabals they control a third of the
00:20:10.680united states government because they control the majority of the supreme court now the the the
00:20:16.520figures they control within i mean i think right now only three people on the supreme court are
00:20:20.460not catholic or half catholic which is just astonishing in terms of the level of control
00:20:25.340anyone else would be like this is a conspiracy especially because the federalist society which
00:20:29.420is like an invitation only society that could call something of a secret society it's not
00:20:33.360entirely secret it is what largely architected this which is also run by catholics so you could
00:20:39.800argue oh they put that together so i don't think it's it's the lack of an ability to form shadowy
00:20:44.440cabals in the way that some people imagine that that i don't know jews or whites do or something
00:20:49.420like that because if you if you if you diagnose it wrong right like if your diagnosis is this is
00:20:55.860because they stole it or shadowy cabals or something like that then the way that you try
00:21:01.680to react is going to be wrong and if the way that you react is wrong that can be civilizationally0.65
00:21:08.380bad for your people like we're talking about the death of your culture right like you you have less
00:21:13.860and less money over time you are expending effort and cultural credits because when you form shadowy
00:21:19.580cabals that often ends up hurting you on things that don't matter well but also you could even
00:21:23.840ask is this an important thing is it important that catholic majority areas do not create
00:21:30.560new cultural trends you know new forms of music new forms of sports new forms of artistic mediums
00:21:39.180is that relevant actually now that i was just thinking the all of the catholic video game hits
00:21:47.200have been just re-innovations of other styles of video games that had already been well
00:21:52.280established in protest what's what is an example of a catholic video game hit the witcher oh the
00:21:59.820witcher would have just been a a redo and and i think when you're trying to just you guys know
00:22:04.280i'm sort of trying to think through this right now on the stream i do not have a high prescriptive
00:22:08.580answer as to why i think poland might be the key here but no poland's not the key because
00:22:15.220poland's just doing what was invented in protestant countries but slightly better than it's
00:22:22.280Performing the same function was in video games that, you know, Italy's fashion scene performs or France's fashion scene performs was in the fashion industry.
00:22:39.280Well, I mean, I think fundamentally, a theme that I get from Catholic friends who talk with us about matters of religion is don't always tear things down and reinvent them, build up and improve and iterate on that which is good.
00:22:57.000it's about feeding into an institution and an unbroken tradition whereas protestantism is
00:23:02.820pathologically inventive which is why one of the things on scott alexander's puritan checklist was
00:23:08.080like has invented five things or something like that there once you break the seal and you choose
00:23:16.040to become a protestant or grow up in that tradition you know it's part of this well if
00:23:21.460it's not good make it better make a new one make a new version and i could see that translating from
00:23:27.980religion to all walks of life that is actually really really fascinating like is the intuition
00:23:37.600because there actually is like if you think about the intuition of i am aware of like five good
00:23:43.940enough sports and then you deciding i'm gonna make up a new sport right that's actually kind
00:23:51.680of a weird thing to do now that you mention it it's really weird i do you remember what they said
00:23:59.820about the folkways of sports in puritan colonies because i remember them being quite interesting
00:24:05.640and it was all about moderation and not doing it too much and they're very different from the the
00:24:10.220blood sports of the cavalier subculture but yeah i can't remember what was said about sports
00:24:16.000folkways in the the puritan group of american colonists but it was and by the way the cavaliers
00:24:25.140in terms of the graping of captives things the cavaliers among the protestant groups are the
00:24:29.980big counter example they definitely grape slaves a lot well and they and they also engaged in much
00:24:36.100more cool sports like remember that one of them had to do with hanging a live bird from a tree
00:24:41.180and then like running up to it really riding up to it really fast on a horse and trying to hit it
00:24:45.480with a stick pinata style or something frankly i find cavalier culture like quite disgusting and
00:24:50.440i'm glad it's going extinct sorry to those of you who listen to the podcast and actively
00:24:54.500identify with it a little bit of rivalry is a good thing well i mean it's it's mostly going
00:24:59.700it's cavalier culture what it evolved into is what you could call frat culture like cheerleaders
00:25:05.600southern gentlemen yeah yeah and and frat culture has been heavily destroyed by wokeism and the
00:25:13.860reason it was so susceptible to wokeism and i think this comes out of the cavalier tradition
00:25:18.540more broadly is it is heavily status seeking like it wants to be among the cultural elite
00:25:25.680so you're saying basically is because they pursue status and because the cultural elite and the
00:25:32.280status generators became woke, which also condemned most of the inappropriate, patriarchal,
00:25:39.900often violent, and ruthless defining characteristics of cavalier culture. It forced
00:25:47.520them to literally strip away everything that made their culture actually unique,
00:25:52.540thus rendering them obsolete. Yeah. Any culture that's status-seeking is very susceptible to
00:25:59.140wokeism and i think that this is why some of the like traditional forms of christianity
00:26:03.580were so susceptible to it well and this is why we're we're strong advocates of the lds church
00:26:10.460staying weird keep mormons weird because otherwise they will go extinct and unfortunately the0.60
00:26:15.520disneylandification and mainstreamification of mormon culture but it's the same with catholicism
00:26:20.700i mean this is not germane to this topic but it's why we support organizations like sspx so much
00:26:24.920yeah because they keep catholicism weird yeah and by weird what we mean is different from
00:26:31.260mainstream cultural values costly to engage in hard difficult requiring of sacrifices requiring
00:26:38.140a feeling othered all of those things are features not bugs the new pope is apparently0.56
00:26:43.600chill af and jesus said i shall not bogart salvation heaven is dead ass lit fam ocasio
00:26:51.480cortez 2024 i need one of you go to rome and brainwash the pope into a hardcore religious0.82
00:26:57.800conservative overnight yeah having beliefs that will make other people feel uncomfortable right
00:27:02.320like genuinely we support these organizations because i want an iteration of them to survive
00:27:06.920but that also requires some like like truth of them so i think the the point that you make is
00:27:12.800really really good it's are you the type of person i mean think about it with a musical
00:27:17.300trend or something like this you see other musicians and this is actually interesting
00:27:21.980when it comes to status seeking right if a musical tradition or if a stylistic tradition
00:27:26.720is already established and you see it and you are a fundamentally status seeking individual
00:27:32.980it makes little sense to attempt to try something entirely new because that doesn't gain you status
00:27:39.780in well it does in one way okay it's do you want to be perceived as high status by the majority
00:27:50.720or do you want to be the highest status person within your small community if you are the second
00:27:58.240right like if i can't be the top jock then i'll just become a goth right or invent something new
00:28:04.300i think that might be like a psychological difference in these communities that may
00:28:09.100lead to the creation of more things but the question is is by the way i decided to look up
00:28:14.520because the one sport that it gave to catholics was cycling and i was like i didn't know the
00:28:18.940bicycle was invented in a catholic majority country and it wasn't it was in germany that's
00:28:24.660it bicycles are so freaking german that's amazing okay which is which is a 50 50 country or
00:28:30.360historically it's a very catholic and it's as we've discussed in other episodes a place where
00:28:34.700the catholic church has disproportionate levels of power because tax revenue goes directly like
00:28:39.960if you identify as a catholic your tax revenue goes partially to the catholic church and the
00:28:45.240well yeah they try to take over and like split from the catholic church and like almost all of
00:28:49.100well no they tried to have they tried to have control of their finances like their own finances
00:28:53.920probably because they're like look we're actually getting a lot of essentially guaranteed revenue
00:28:58.780we would rather manage it ourselves because well i mean and they they won these votes it was like
00:29:05.36090 votes you can see our video on that that time that like a portion of the catholic church tried
00:29:10.900to split you know that was that was a wild thing to learn about having happened recently so that's
00:29:16.280one thing i i i yeah i do think that there is something like deeply psychologically harmful
00:29:21.580about the idea that it's always better to improve what you already have and to try to make something
00:29:26.700that's entirely new because that's where you get big technological breakthroughs right that's where
00:29:31.700you get like the next big thing that's how we get to the stars right but what's also interesting is
00:29:37.380other cultures that believe in iterative improvement like i would say japan and
00:29:43.060korea are cultures that believe in iterative improvement but both of those cultures have
00:29:47.500created styles in fact japan is like a style factory yeah no except that japan styles are
00:29:54.740extremely iterative based on other cultures. Derivative, yeah. Sorry, yeah, derivative. So
00:30:00.220that's not even, I don't think that holds. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess you'd say you probably want
00:30:06.440a culture with some people from each group, right? Like a world with some people from each group.
00:30:10.760Obviously, that's one of the reasons why we got into pronatalism in the first place is we were
00:30:15.200really concerned that only certain viewpoints would be represented in the future when really
00:30:19.300we get maximum value when a bunch of different cultural subsets and approaches interact.
00:30:24.740oh yeah yeah well and i think intuitionally this is a very interesting thing because it's one of
00:30:31.260these things where like when i'm talking to cats like they're like well don't you want to be
00:30:34.180part of this like tradition that determines what's true and it's the sole source of what's
00:30:40.200and i'm like like literally there is nothing that would counter sell me against joining a movement
00:30:46.080than what you just said like of course i don't want somebody else determining what is existentially
00:30:52.340true about reality like that that would have a hugely negative effects on my ability to determine
00:30:57.580what's true about reality which i would see as a very negative thing figuring things out for
00:31:01.580yourself is the only freedom anyone really has use that freedom make up your own mind and of course
00:31:07.040i don't want somebody else out there telling me how to style myself how to live myself but what's
00:31:13.300interesting is i think even the catholic tradition has the tools to build this potentially in a way
00:31:20.360it's even superior to Protestantism as they do it right. Where, you know, was religious orders
00:31:24.500and stuff like that. They have historically done this a lot. I mean, religious orders are
00:31:28.660nothing else. I mean, the Opus Dei, the way that they live their life could be thought of as
00:31:36.100differentiated as, well, not as differentiated as Goss, but like maybe like 10% as differentiated
00:31:42.840as Goss. I mean, hey, Goss don't do like mortification and stuff like that, right?
00:31:46.660you know or their regular daily rituals so yeah i'd say this is differentiated but they just have
00:31:51.800a formalized system for doing but here's the thing i don't understand and again i think some of the
00:31:58.020changes where like groups are different for a very long period of time can become biological
00:32:01.560because like when i have catholic friends who you know we talk about problems in the vatican we talk
00:32:07.960about ways that it could be done better and i'm always like because this is my intuition as someone
00:32:13.400from a protestant intellectual background i'm always like why don't you just start your own
00:32:17.660order like you could email the vatican and be like hey like let's start an order where like
00:32:22.260the opus day treats you know daily work as if it's a religious duty like raising and having
00:32:28.320the next generation caring for the next generation caring for like all of this would fit very well
00:32:33.660within things the vatican would presumably want unless they've just gone like fully evil at this
00:32:38.320right like if they're just like no we hate babies now too why not just like go and start at least
00:32:44.060pitch that right and and there's been multiple like devote people i've noted so devote that
00:32:49.400they seriously thought about joining the priesthood or you know they have or they're you know interested
00:32:53.800in like really and and it never gets to step two is it they never draft anything they never put
00:32:59.640anything together they never email anyone they never like okay like let's let's do the next thing
00:33:04.200which is interesting because i've gone to mormons with similar pitches and and and they have
00:33:09.840they're like oh yeah like i should i should email the central you know temple about this this is a
00:33:13.720good idea like let's push this up to the local bishop let's you know see but why why do they
00:33:19.860not try to make things better i could i have two theories about this it could be that they just
00:33:26.140don't believe that the like they don't actually have faith that the central institution can fix
00:33:30.980itself even if they put their energy into it and so they're or they expect it to like push back on
00:33:34.940them and be like no or they're punished in some way for doing this i don't know or it could be
00:33:40.060that they don't actually see fixing the central institution as core to fixing the the wider
00:33:47.500system because the central institution they've already written off is so divorced from their
00:33:52.520daily experience of the catholic hmm it's i i have extreme difficulty engaging with that particular
00:34:02.660mindset my goal is or default assumption is it is always better to throw out the thing and try again0.98
00:34:10.540which i guess yeah that's always wasteful as well yeah wasteful stupid not likely to lead to long0.98
00:34:18.800term the the downside of this way of thinking and it does have a big downside is the one that0.97
00:34:25.180redeemed zoomer fights against so what he points out is if you're always just like well it's been
00:34:31.380captured it's not good anymore we're going to do it new we're going to do it better we're going to
00:34:34.280do it awesome you lose all of the wealth that accumulated within the old thing so you lose all
00:34:41.760of the beautiful old churches you lose all of the money that people had donated to the religious
00:34:46.480institution and then that gets captured by the infiltrators so woke infiltrators or whatever
00:34:51.000infiltrating group and he even points out you don't even need that many people because they're
00:34:55.640looking for young leadership you know if you can get in yeah i mean i even i go even so far as once
00:35:01.420technopuritism becomes larger i think it may even make sense to intentionally structure young
00:35:07.780families in regions with sort of dying institutions like this to capture their leadership boards
00:35:13.860covertly, take them over and then repurpose them for our stuff. Like, I think that that is,
00:35:19.220is very doable when you only need like five or six people to control voting and they just don't
00:35:24.040have a lot of young people. It's all you need to do is wait them out. Right. And then you can
00:35:27.540recapture old religious institutions quite easily from the, from the Wokies. But1.00
00:35:32.220God, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm, I'm trying to think through is that that's, it doesn't matter. It
00:35:40.540doesn't matter that you lose all the wealth because losing all the wealth if you think it
00:35:44.540like why a lot of america was founded like the early groups in america a lot of it was like
00:35:50.140get like let's go somewhere new let's create yeah we don't care about wealth we care about
00:35:54.380earning potential and there's earning potential in violent innovation
00:35:58.380it's high risk high reward but when when you have a diversified portfolio you're gonna see1.00
00:36:06.380well i mean jews get the best of both worlds right which is one of the the but they deal1.00
00:36:13.760with a huge negative externality because of it which i don't think is worth it so let's talk0.55
00:36:17.960about how jews avoid this okay what jews do is they're constantly splitting off from each other0.93
00:36:23.040was like oh i have a new idea about how to do judaism and there's some new hot rabbi or whatever
00:36:27.440who's like the new coolest guy in town and we haven't talked about how within judaism you can
00:36:32.520like go and be like that rabbi is wrong like in the middle of like a thing right yeah there's a
00:36:38.240more live but overly we would say charisma heavy meritocracy yeah well it's charisma heavy and
00:36:46.820rote memorization heavy and scholarship heavy which isn't always a bad thing and then also the
00:36:52.240groups that have more children out compute the other groups right you know like in the early if0.58
00:36:57.980If you look at the early Hasidic movement, it's very clear that like the Baal Shem Tov and his group was not able to win the intellectual game.0.87
00:55:26.320They also don't seem to affect American Catholics as strongly as other Catholic groups.
00:55:32.840Yes, though, how devout are most American Catholics?
00:55:38.620You know, I somewhat question the degree of someone's Catholicism unless they actively live and have a full Catholic lifestyle.
00:55:50.960By that I mean they live in a Catholic community, their kids go to Catholic school, like their entire social network is Catholic.
00:55:59.720America has, of all of the Western countries, all the technologically advanced countries, my understanding, the most conservative branch of the Catholic Church.
00:56:08.620like and we have a lot of really vibrant conservative catholic communities but
00:56:13.420of course the the people i knew who were catholic were not really catholic by my estimation because
00:56:19.120they weren't in those communities they were mixing with people like me and if you're a kid
00:56:23.720and you're catholic and you're mixing with people like me you're probably not going to stay catholic
00:56:28.200well yeah that that makes well yeah not creating as much of a community separation like we are
00:56:34.480different is also really important extremely yes and it's something we work really hard to do with
00:56:40.400our kids but yeah this was really fascinating to me i really value the creation of entirely new
00:56:46.460ideas entirely new things that that i mean that is the very reason why i want to save catholicism
00:56:52.600because it's different from my tradition it is yeah well yeah that ironically the the one thing
00:56:57.760we like about it is that it's different and interesting to us in its novelty though it is
00:57:03.900not in its own right novel but we also know that we have an extreme bias against like chesterton's
00:57:13.420fence we're like why is that there burn it down we'll build a new one it's fine like there will
00:57:17.100there will be problems but we're only going to know what the problems are if we burn it down
00:57:20.520so let's do it yeah we we're not like oh you don't understand why that fence is there like
00:57:25.560burn it down oh allow this stuff okay clearly there's a problem there's only one way we can
00:57:30.600test this yeah build it back and build it better right like oh i don't understand why this prohibition
00:57:36.060is here i'm okay it was at the beginning when they removed that prohibition and now i'm like oh well
00:57:41.260we should have had that prohibition let's let's let's let's build it back in a way that works
00:57:45.520within a modern context max exactly but this to me you know in terms of how i build my tradition
00:57:52.280and for my kids for the very reason that i want to save catholicism which is they are different
00:57:57.400is I want to, again, as people said, Malcolm, stop saying diversity, which you mean is variety.
00:58:04.360If one cultural group is putting more differentiated ideas that are productive,
00:58:10.880I am going to want my descendants and my culture to have more in common with that group,
00:58:15.840which is why we lean really deeply into the ways that Protestantism and Catholicism are different
00:58:22.460from each other because i really admire all of this innovation that a catholic may think it's
00:58:27.720pointless like it's irrelevant who invented oh you guys invented soccer well we have it now
00:58:31.760whatever right like are you making money off of it like what's the oh you invented goth oh you
00:58:36.960invented punk oh you invented rock oh you invented blues oh you invented you can invent everything
00:58:42.620but eventually everyone else gets to use it as well right so like oh you invented the plane
00:58:47.500whatever right oh you invented this demon joe you invented you know whatever right like we all get
00:58:53.420that now that is and that's not necessarily as simone said like if you get to space and i think
00:58:58.620that leaflet had a really good point on this and you know people begin genetically augmenting
00:59:02.640themselves as we become more and more different it is at that point why you could understand why
00:59:07.040variety has value whereas leaflet said which i thought was really intelligent she's like think0.92
00:59:10.880about it from the perspective of like a dnd campaign like you don't want all human mages
00:59:16.580or whatever right like you want different types with different specialties I will say that I
00:59:22.860don't think after we begin to get more cybernetic technology and genetic augmentation technology
00:59:27.860the people who choose to stand fully vanilla are just going to be a massively underspecked class0.87
00:59:35.540in the in the same way that like Amish could be in in any sort of like the battle since today like0.98
00:59:41.900Amish can live perfectly happy, healthy lives, which they do. However, you know, you're going
00:59:47.940into war with all of the different groups. You're not going to choose an Amish on your team, right?1.00
00:59:52.240You know, you're going into, I mean, there's some specific pathways where you would, but for most,1.00
00:59:58.360you're not going to. And I think that 200, 300 years from now, the people who today who don't
01:00:03.080engage with cybernetics and AI and genetic augmentation are going to fall in a role that is0.99
01:00:10.020undifferentiated from the way we see the Amish today, e.g. in 300 years that the people who0.85
01:00:15.740don't adopt technology will be seen as not a dissimilar thing from the Amish, like the same0.99
01:00:22.440kind of a thing. They may even not be able to tell how you're different. You're like, well,0.99
01:00:27.600I only wear 21st century clothes before everybody just started hanging out in virtual space.
01:00:33.880And they'll be like, that's a weird, it's like some weird sex thing in their mind. They're like,
01:00:38.140i don't know why you're doing this is weird you want to you want to talk to people in person
01:00:42.940like like an animal and i think i mean in terms of social changes we're already seeing this was
01:00:48.320like our leaflet streams and stuff like that yeah where it's a new form of socialization
01:00:55.060that is likely going to become more and more dominant in the self-identity and cultural
01:01:01.520identity of the next generation and and people get from that you know you go what i what i mean by
01:01:07.700this is however often your kids go to church in a lot of instances that they might be watching
01:01:15.220streamers more so they're adapting more of their cultural identity from those streamers
01:01:19.940and the streamers with religious identities are affecting them in terms of either keeping them
01:01:27.520in those communities or pushing them out of those communities and and we've seen a rise in these
01:01:32.940sorts of streamers unfortunately which has just been fascinating any any final thoughts simone
01:01:38.060no interesting stuff yeah interest interesting thread and people are like stop pulling threads
01:01:45.780that make x group look bad we we attack lots of groups on the show and we get a lot of hate for
01:01:50.700it but i think that when i say attack what i mean is we've got to look at the historical data we've
01:01:55.860got to look at how groups are different and we have to learn from that i mean i just got served0.79
01:02:00.480are stop it jews you're speed running a program episode right like you think a jew is happy to0.80
01:02:06.400see that like no not at all right but it's important to call this stuff out as we see it0.70
01:02:11.420a that episode i mean who is that episode for it's for helping jews right like who is this
01:02:17.880episode for it's for helping people with Catholic identities but also showing why we aren't remotely
01:02:24.440tempted by that particular identity i mean maybe simone more than me but yeah
01:02:29.840i also think something that that catholics can take away the most from this that i would if i
01:02:37.900was a catholic okay is to try to understand better how protestants think so that you can
01:02:44.680emulate them better so that you can convert them better if that's the goal because
01:02:50.140if you understand a group would always rather be purer and new than have you know a degree of
01:03:02.540historicity but be more corrupted when you make the arguments around historicity they're just not
01:03:08.700going to get to them like not even in the like they don't they don't pass at the beginning of
01:03:13.640the wall unless you first explain the utility of historicity in a way that they would find
01:03:19.680compelling perhaps yeah which is a much harder i mean i can't even think of what argument around
01:03:25.980do it because it's the way i mean the basic biggest argument for that is chesters and fence
01:03:29.860like well these rules were put here for a reason so they'll lead to better outcomes long term
01:03:35.000to which the other person's just going to be like but they haven't for the past hundred years so why
01:03:39.660would they for the next hundred years right like if you could show in the past hundred years they
01:03:43.640were leading to much better results and i'd be like okay great yeah you created a compelling
01:03:47.000argument but like what we're in fact seeing is much worse outcomes in terms of fertility in
01:03:54.000terms of productivity in terms of innovation so that i find that less less compelling anyway
01:03:59.000love you did us simone yeah i'm not gonna like censor myself around a topic just because it's
01:04:04.580gonna piss off a portion of the fan base like it these are things that need to be talked about
01:04:08.040if we're gonna figure out how to save human civilization malcolm you're just repeating
01:04:11.340yourself you it's okay it's okay you can hate on them it's it's like how dare you say i have cancer
01:04:17.280it's like well if we don't address the cancer right you know like they know they know look
01:04:22.500and if they can't figure that out then they're never going to okay i love you simone i love you
01:04:28.320too oh don't stress about it do you know how octavian self soothes by tagging as he calls it
01:04:37.640which is moving toys tags between his index and middle finger like an artistic thing he taught
01:04:45.400his siblings how to do yeah he's like you need to learn how to tag so Tex flosses I'm not even
01:04:52.600kidding you he has pulled the threads out of an old towel and he likes to floss his teeth he'll
01:05:00.880like run a thread between his teeth and it comforts him so much and I don't get it who flosses
01:05:07.520I mean, I guess a flossing is actually quite comforting.