00:00:00Hello, Malcolm. I'm glad to be speaking with you today because El Salvador may very well
00:00:05be presenting itself globally as the world's new go-to punisher for hire. And it is in the
00:00:11middle of executing on a major demonstration of this skill in Haiti. I mean, as you know,
00:00:17and as other people watching this may be aware, there's recently some drama in Haiti, like,
00:00:21you know, the country with 70% of its capital under gang control and a death count of over
00:00:265,700 just from january to september of this year people don't realize haiti is essentially if
00:00:32you've ever played ghost recon wildlands um it's basically that right now it is it is a completely
00:00:39under gang control at this point there isn't really a legitimate government left and for a
00:00:46bit of a lead-in to what happened here and i'll just give the summary is el salvador can we no
00:00:51can you let me give the lead-in because this is i'll let you give the lead but i mean i will say
00:00:55to your point, like the president of the United States has continued to hold to his stance that
00:01:01this is one of the worst countries like Libya, Yemen, Haiti, Somalia. Remember I remember what
00:01:10I call them? Shithouse countries. He's holding that. It is really bad. You know that that death1.00
00:01:16count now. Right. So El Salvador, out of the kindness of its heart, had sent over around 200
00:01:22troops, covering 90% of those troops' costs, mainly to provide medical assistance. And yet,
00:01:28on October 18th, gunmen ambushed an armored vehicle carrying four of these men, and they're
00:01:32now missing. So what did El Salvador's President Bukele do? Well, let's watch a little news clip,
00:01:39including footage that he put on X, because that is where presidents put things down.
00:01:44There's a helicopter flying. They're going to shoot. Pew, pew. Oh, look. The first Salvadoran
00:01:51operation against a gang in haiti just take a look at this the president of el salvador naif
00:01:55bukele reported the destruction of the alleged home of gang leader wilson joseph and the
00:02:00headquarters of the armed group 400 mawoso bukele made the announcement in an expose accompanied by
00:02:05the footage you're seeing on your screen it's video of the attack carried out by white attack
00:02:09helicopters bearing the salvadoran flag so hold on simone this we're quite you're not giving the
00:02:15context that explains to people what's going on so el salvador is famous for under this president
00:02:21mr bukake oh my god really transforming itself from essentially a gang state into a safe and
00:02:31economically prosperous region and he did it by arresting criminals and gangs very aggressively
00:02:38and very proactively they basically did an ice like thing but then put them all in these prison0.60
00:02:43systems and to for him to say like i'm gonna go in and fix haiti he's one of the only people on
00:02:50earth who really has any sort of credentials to potentially do that like yeah and he did
00:02:55he grew up one of the gang leaders home and he said not just i mean he's 500 soldiers full troop
00:03:00formations in haiti at this point and in addition to that the haitian gangs have become so terrified
00:03:07that they have written a letter to the u.n requesting mediation it was at this moment that0.99
00:03:13he knew what the hell's going on he fucked up0.98
00:03:19yeah that's the gang later whose home was one of his homes at least was0.99
00:03:26bombed by the uh by the attack helicopters um wilson joseph he's the one who's begging for
00:03:33mercy from the un um they blew up my home help we'll talk now um and the reaction has has been
00:03:38so fun to this um and we also just wanted to understand the bigger picture and i i think the
00:03:43most interesting thing is i do think this is a very strategic move on behalf of el salvador
00:03:49to become the ass kickers of the world for hire well i want to go into el salvador colonialism
00:03:55okay i'm okay with we'll see i think it's going to be a little bit more mercenary and i'm going0.90
00:03:59to explain to you why. But first, yeah, well, let's absolutely go into sort of the case study
00:04:04that they have presented locally, because as you said, it's super, super impressive. Per the UN
00:04:10Refugee Agency, following their March 2022 crackdown, which is when all of these people
00:04:16were jailed, the mass incarceration, the official homicide rate in Haiti fell from 18.1 per 100,000
00:04:23people in 2021 to 1.3 in 2025. That is approximately a 93% decline. And gang control,
00:04:31street rivalry, and extortion also diminished, obviously, substantially. Homicides were already
00:04:37declining before the mass arrests, so the entire improvement cannot even just be attributed only
00:04:42to them. Also, it wasn't just that crime went down and people were safer. The economy did much
00:04:47better. According to the World Bank, real GDP grew 3.5% in 2023, 2.6% in 2024, and then almost
00:04:543.9 or almost 4%, so 3.9% in 2025. And that is to say the World Bank absolutely points to the
00:05:02country's secured borders. They attribute the country's improved security to all this
00:05:12improvement also per the world bank visitor arrivals rose from 2.4 million in 2022 to 3.4
00:05:20million in 23 and they exceeded 4 million in 2025 so doubling in two years yeah which is i i'm
00:05:28surprised anyone is going to haiti but more people are and private investment also no haiti you mean
00:05:34el salvador no oh sorry to el salvador yes i'm yeah i'm surprised people are going to el salvador
00:05:40at all because it's been known for the crime. My understanding is that it's relatively safe
00:05:47contrasting with other Latin American countries now. Yeah, I think now people are like, oh yeah,
00:05:51I can go there. I can't go to Mexico. I can go to El Salvador. So yeah, private investment grew
00:05:55an estimated 26.2% in 2025 alone. And obviously the improved security helps to make that easier.
00:06:03I mean, when you kind of predict that your investment will be safe, that it's not going
00:06:07become overrun by criminals, yeah, you're more likely to actually invest.
00:06:12I actually wanted to go into that statistic that I said there. So if you look at El Salvador,
00:06:16it has the absolute lowest homicide rate of any country in Latin America now. It only has 1.3
00:06:24murders for every 100,000 inhabitants. If you contrast that with other countries,
00:06:29in ecuador it's 51 versus 1.3 in ecu in haiti it's 49.7 to 68 in colombia it's 28 and honduras
00:06:38it's 21 in guatemala it's 17 okay so everywhere else is dangerous now it's 14 in mexico it's 17
00:06:45to 24.9 now again it's 1.3 in el salvador now now what did it used to be in el salvador okay
00:06:53you go back to 1995 it was 138.4 oh my goodness if you go back to when bukele took office it was
00:07:0438.5 yeah so i mean obviously after the year before he took office it was 53.1 um that that
00:07:13that is that is as high as haiti right now so he did fix this before and he can fix it again
00:07:21and what you need to do is round up everyone with tattoos and put them in prison well how many
00:07:27people was that really it was around 93 000 cumulative arrests under this emergency regime
00:07:33of like let's just arrest people like crazy that's approximately 1.5 percent of the population
00:07:38or one in every 65 residents which is a lot um but not that much considering the benefit that
00:07:46the nation is getting uh and considering when you look at just crime stats in general that
00:07:52so many of the most egregious crimes are committed by repeat offenders and it's just like we need to
00:07:57put these people away it's like a lot of people look to el salvador and are like i want that
00:08:02where can i get that and this is again the big theme of this episode is i think they're getting
00:08:06ready to export this because people do want that um yeah no if i was running a presidential campaign
00:08:11this is what i would run for this is i think what america needs more than anything which is
00:08:16a real judicial system. Yeah, absolutely. So on to what happened with Haiti. Here's the general
00:08:22breakdown. On October 18th, gunmen ambushed this Air Force aviation technician, you know,
00:08:28armored truck. They were serving with a small contingent, you know, that El Salvador had sent,
00:08:34but they were working with the UN-backed gang suppression force. And they were, again,
00:08:38primarily doing medical work. They were not there to, like, make people angry.
00:08:41And according to El Salvador's armed forces, their military people escaped the vehicle after it caught fire, but then contact with them was totally lost.
00:08:52And then Bekele described them as hostages and launched this deployment of 2,500 troops.
00:08:59They were primarily sent out to find and recover these men, but they are missing.
00:09:06El Salvador as a country, like their policy now is they're still alive and we're going to find them.
00:09:11However, just as like what's actually happened to them, human remains were recovered during a search for them.
00:09:17And according to The New York Times on October 24th, they found burned remains that might belong to the missing men, but they would need testing for identification.
00:09:27And Bukele has disputed that they were his personnel.
00:09:30And the International Force said it couldn't confirm the remains, although also according to an AP and Associated Press November 11th update, they say at least one gang leader had said they were dead.
00:09:40so i don't have a lot of hope well them them pretending that they are not dead gives him
00:09:46cassis belly to do whatever he wants that's and that's the point because i don't i mean i think
00:09:50the obviously the reason they say that they've sent these these troops out is for these men
00:09:55but that is not the reason these troops are out and they're going to stay out and yeah i think
00:09:59they're they're actively not trying to find proof that these these men are probably tragically dead
00:10:04because there is another reason why they're there um but i you know buckelli also vowed to quote
00:10:09teach the gangs a lesson. These gangs are making the Haitian people suffer. I also point out that
00:10:14while he has done aggressive arrests in his country, he has built one of the best prison
00:10:19systems on earth in terms of employing people within the prisons, in terms of reforming them,
00:10:25in terms of getting them skills so that they're employable when they leave, in terms of making
00:10:28sure they're being productive and not a drain on the taxpayer. Oh, I mean, the first time I ever
00:10:32heard of Nick Shirley was when he toured the El Salvadorian prisons. He went to one of the lower
00:10:36security ones that actually is doing what malcolm's describing here el salvador this is one of the
00:10:41prison systems they have here this is not secot this is a different prison for people that are
00:10:44not gang affiliated here inside of this prison they have each and every single person learning
00:10:49a new skill it's called the plan the ocio means literally the plan of no leisure is each person
00:10:55inside of this prison i like this plan of no leisure sleeping well the prison looks so organized
00:10:59and clean inside el salvador and just to come to a class here to make sure that nobody ditches
00:11:04They have a biometric scanner that scans the face of each prisoner as they come in to keep track of their attendance.
00:11:11That way they know exactly where these prisoners are, so that way they cannot miss a single class.
00:11:14It's pretty incredible to walk through here.
00:11:15And also, if you come through here as well, they have a garden.
00:11:19And this person right here is also a prisoner, and he is working here on the garden.
00:11:23By doing this, they're helping the prisoners rehabilitate inside of society.
00:11:26And each day a prisoner works, they then get two days taken off their sentence.
00:11:30And by doing this, by having classes and even having gardens or helping, this prison becomes self-sufficient in ways that they don't have to rely that much on taxpayer dollars because why should a taxpaying citizen have to pay to take care of prisoners that did them harm?
00:11:44This prison is actually incredible as people are learning how to become doctors, engineers, farmers, and eventually rehabilitate into society here in El Salvador.
00:11:52Now, again, the theme of this episode, oh, my gosh, people are going to want this exported to their countries as their countries start falling apart with, you know, a criminal class that is dependent on social services for support.
00:12:06This idea of like either a prison or a poorhouse or whatever you want to call it that functions like these.
00:12:13I think that governments are going to say, oh, my gosh, I need these or we will absolutely lose control of our country.
00:12:20Hey, El Salvador, let me pay you to come over and do this.
00:14:23the streets. There's, you know, they're just, they're just partying. They are welcoming the
00:14:28El Salvadorians. I'm going to give you another little news clip here. Oh, by the way, the ones
00:14:32that are. Okay, wait a second. I'm going to go handle the kids. All right. They've been taken
00:14:36care of thanks bukele style oh for love sorry i should say bukkake style no god okay look here's
00:14:45here's another news clip as salvadoran troops carry out their mission in haiti haitian citizens
00:14:50are approaching soldiers with gestures of kindness and gratitude there's just news images shared by
00:14:56president naid bukele show how both peoples can connect through respect and hope they are so happy
00:15:02they're waving kaylee's like my father he's the thank you so much people are just so happy like
00:15:09it's a truce you're walking by like thank you like hey good to see you all right yeah they're
00:15:16just they're just thrilled so okay the haitians are like this is great i love this you're they're
00:15:21you're very welcome here people they yearn for the conquistadors oh they yearn for the descendants
00:15:27Okay. Yeah. Look, the gang control, I think they're super done with it. And law and order is very welcome. Also, at least to begin with, Haiti's prime minister, Fields Aime, I don't know how to say his name. I've not heard it on the news, was pleased.
00:15:47He wrote or said, hats off to President Naib Bukele for your support and commitment to the national fight against gangs, which is very PR-ish.
00:15:56But look, at the surface and at the beginning, the prime minister of Haiti was very in favor of it.
00:16:02Of course, Trump has been very supportive as well.
00:18:29the GSF's mandate. That's the gang suppression force that this lawsuit for before troops was
00:18:37with. One UN spokesperson named Jurak said, people's rights need to be respected as you
00:18:45conduct security operations, which I think is as close as the UN is going to come to being like,
00:18:50we don't like this because it's not us. You're not following the procedures. This is not correct.
00:18:55you need to follow all of our rules uh they're not exactly thrilled and they're not thrilled
00:19:02because they like problems in the world because that justifies their existence i mean yeah and
00:19:07also like if you don't follow some weird like bureaucratized thing you know and just solve
00:19:12problems then oh well yeah they don't like when we arrest maduro either they don't yeah they don't
00:19:17know that unilateral action is seen as quite negative and this shows up in the media coverage
00:19:21as well like some of the points negative points i would say they're being made in the media are
00:19:27that foreign military surges in haiti have repeatedly caused harms people point to the
00:19:321915 to 1934 u.s occupation of haiti and then the u.n induced cholera that was the u.n though0.64
00:19:39yeah so when the u.n does it with all their red tape they kill everyone oh yeah right0.81
00:19:44can we not provide the u.n i mean before it's a muslim only organization um i think i think uh0.63
00:19:51that is that is the only hope for most of europe honestly is something like this was yeah no i
00:19:56think i genuinely see this this i think again my whole thing is i think what el salvador is doing
00:20:02here is they've already made their model with the prisons i mean they they have nick shirley
00:20:06but i want to understand how they're profiting from this if you think they're doing this
00:20:09to you but first we're going through their case study here and how right now people are reacting
00:20:14to it totally missing that this is a demo this is el salvador saying we don't just provide jail
00:20:20services we can also go to your country and clean up and then do jail services um so yes we're going
00:20:25to get there but yeah another thing that they're saying is well people really hate bukele's jail
00:20:30offer or sorry i keep thinking of it as a product what he's done with with jailing tens of thousands
00:20:37of suspected gang members at home without due process if you get a tattoo expect to go to jail
00:20:42that's the way i feel they a lot of people are saying oh well in these slums civilians are
00:20:48trapped between the lines with unclear command because you know that the el salvadorian military
00:20:54is not necessarily completely collaborating with the u.n and following their rules
00:20:59and it looked like that to me i know it looked like a lot of people were waving to the troops
00:21:04as they came in and being like you're welcome thank you we love bukele but whatever ignore
00:21:08the civilians just say that they're trapped between the lines speak for them it's fine0.60
00:21:13that's what white women do i can guarantee you a white woman wrote that i i am as a as a as a0.97
00:21:20white male i am so trapped here because it's like can we just eradicate white women like how0.99
00:21:27how are they not the central enemy of this entire narrative anyway one of the one of the most0.96
00:21:33telling arguments that i found that was critical of this action found i found it in america can
00:21:39you not hear me yeah i can hear you okay i'm even married to a white woman oh for i am i am so
00:21:45friendly with white women i am married i have to raise a generation of decent ones0.97
00:21:50which you guys will fund by being horny on our fab okay i'm gonna continue in america's quarterly0.97
00:21:58the most damning argument that i found was people basically saying oh well you know if if this if
00:22:06this doesn't work well then the the the the u.n's effort in in in haiti might be shut off because
00:22:13they'll just think the intervention doesn't work which is just so ridiculous the u.n's intervention
00:22:18in haiti wasn't working it didn't work this it should be shut down and they're like oh but if
00:22:22haiti comes in and it messes things up then the u.n's operations in haiti will be undermined
00:22:27they were undermined as it was this is just completely ridiculous and of course as we said
00:22:32earlier the concerned gang wrote to the UN asking for dialogue and mediation um which is just
00:22:39hilarious but also shows how you know the UN is what gangs are turning to for comfort I don't
00:22:46think the UN is doing its job you don't want someone to be crawling to you thinking that
00:22:51you're going to be mommy to take care of them no the gangs shouldn't be taken care of they should
00:22:56be eradicated so anyway in terms of whether we should expect a long-term occupation i would say
00:23:03maybe um i i think that this might be the case because at this point like as of just a couple
00:23:11of days before we're recording this haiti's prime minister started expressing some criticism after
00:23:16his initially polite remarks he said the actions of el salvador could set a damaging precedent for
00:23:23the multilateral missions that were taking place in his nation, saying, quote, governments may
00:23:28conclude that risks of joining are rising while the political rewards to those who act, go to
00:23:33those who act alone. So he sees critical of El Salvador coming in and actually cleaning things
00:23:40up. And there is also no stated end date. This deployment has no clear timetable and the legal
00:23:46terms are not public um one analyst named romaine liqueur says basically nobody knows quote who
00:23:53commands these troops under which rules of engagement or for how long and quote which
00:23:58really makes me think this is actually el salvador just coming in and doing whatever it pleases
00:24:03because they're the ones willing to spend money on what for many people is just a throwaway country
00:24:09which is sad but true and yeah a lot of people are concerned that if they stay really long
00:24:16it may undermine, but perhaps this is part of the intention, the Haitian elections that are set for
00:24:22July of next year. So we'll see how long this lasts. But in terms of what's in it for El
00:24:28Salvador, obviously, the surface reason is to rescue the four ambushed men. But as you saw from
00:24:33that clip I shared of Donald Trump just speaking off the cuff, I'm pretty sure President Bukele
00:24:38told Donald Trump that those men were killed. And that's why Donald Trump said those men were killed.
00:24:43whereas publicly Bukele's no no they're not killed they've been taken hostage we must rescue
00:24:48them that's why we're there there um so that's where I'm like okay I'm pretty sure he knows but
00:24:53he's using it as a pretext because El Salvador also got goodwill with Washington um they got
00:24:58Trump's backing and U.S. airlift uh assisted the operation a little bit um and um there was a little
00:25:07tie to the operation with with the U.S. and also there is this opportunity most importantly to
00:25:12showcase the Bukele security model and how it can be exported. And his forces are at this point
00:25:19outnumbering the gang suppression force, the UN version of this that was supposed to be working
00:25:24in Haiti. And if we see a significant change in Haiti's function, like if they're in their safety
00:25:33following this invasion, they will be able to present this very clear case study of here is
00:25:39haiti before our model here's haiti after our model and this is with already a like formal
00:25:47professional team from the un trying to fix things so they're able to say not only are we effective
00:25:53at bringing peace to a crime-ridden city we are more effective than the un which is going to be
00:26:00an amazing and powerful sales pitch plus they're nearby like this is the ultimate convenient
00:26:05opportunity so let's talk about you think this is more like advertising for future militia
00:26:10operations yes this is an infomercial uh this is this is their this is their primetime infomercial
00:26:15but the problem is is that the el salvadorian model only works with mass incarceration what0.71
00:26:20do you think they're going to do just kill them i don't know we're going to have to find out i mean0.81
00:26:25i would prefer they just do executions i'm because that's the only financially stable way to do this0.95
00:26:30and the number of lives that are going to be saved is almost certainly higher 100 so you know
00:26:35it's it's one of those things where it's like it is sad that that is the financially viable pathway
00:26:42they could of course bring them back to el salvador but then that creates a whole other
00:26:47problem yeah you know so they could try to build local prison camps which might be what i expect
00:26:53is a mix of a local el salvadorian run prison camps yeah mass executions
00:26:58i think it's going to be more likely to be the prison camps because honestly and again we're
00:27:04going to get into it like that's where the money is that's where that's the model they have a way
00:27:08to profit from prison camps that they set up there i guess they can get the u.n to fund them
00:27:12or something and yeah okay let's just go in let's go into the model let's talk about business let's
00:27:17talk about how el salvador can monetize this um because they absolutely can so the the most
00:27:23compelling thing that I think they're trying to pitch here is that El Salvador can be your go-to
00:27:29country to do overseas deployments in which a host government or foreign sponsor pays their military
00:27:35or police units, including operational expenses, for a negotiated service fee. And this would mean
00:27:40government receipts and personnel compensation and contracts for El Salvadorian suppliers would
00:27:45be amazing for their economy. And what they would do is just go out and do the job that, say, the
00:27:51UN can't do, do the job that local police can't do. So that's what they're trying to demonstrate
00:27:56with this case study, I think. They could also do training and advisory missions if they want to be
00:28:00like a little more lightweight for someone. It's like a foreign minister could hire Salvadorian
00:28:06instructors to train their police and develop intelligence units and even reorganize their0.74
00:28:10prisons or advise on anti-gang operations once they've demonstrated, oh, we were able to take
00:28:16out Haiti's gang when no one else could, even the UN, even these private security groups that are in
00:28:20in um port of prince right now um because they also think you could make a really good for people
00:28:25who are like i'm open to vibe coding a video game but you haven't done it yet i honestly think you
00:28:30can make a really good video game around this to bring order back to port of prince as el salvador
00:28:35yes and i would i would have it in in two uh structures you could have one where it's just
00:28:41like a lone team and sort of have it be like a ubisoft them up but i do think it would be even
00:28:46more fun to do like troop command and stuff like that and make it into a strategy game well and
00:28:52also building the infrastructure because then the third element to this that i think is already one
00:28:56of the most developed is that they could provide prison services in which a foreign government will
00:29:02pay el salvador to detain people or either that or hire el salvadorian teams to design and operate
00:29:09prisons locally which would mean detention fees and management contracts also construction and
00:29:15staffing and operating costs, which would, you know, there would be a markup that would go to
00:29:19them. And what I love about their prison model is that's recurring revenue. You know, like we used
00:29:25to work in private equity. People love recurring revenue because then, you know, it's one of those
00:29:31businesses that as long as you're taking on new clients and not losing your existing clients,
00:29:34it just keeps going up. You don't have to keep winning new clients because you basically get
00:29:38subscriptions. This is why everyone's trying to sell you a subscription instead of a product. Now
00:29:41They want recurring revenue and prisons are recurring revenue. And the thing is, this is
00:29:47already sort of happening because the U.S. sent around 288 people to El Salvador between March
00:29:53and April of 2025, and they went to El Salvadorian prisons. It was 252 Venezuelans and 36 El
00:30:00Salvadorians. And this, by the way, is just the prison cohort. It doesn't include their ordinary
00:30:05deportations to El Salvador. And I mean, it's not exactly clear the numbers. The Congressional
00:30:10Research Service describes a cohort more as like approximately 300. But these are not just
00:30:16convicted American prisoners. They're migrants who the administration said had criminal histories
00:30:23or whatever. But still, it's an example of what a country could do. And it's already been
00:30:27demonstrated. The Venezuelans were held for approximately four months in El Salvadorian
00:30:31prisons and then returned to Venezuela in July of 2025 under this negotiated exchange that freed
00:30:3810 U.S. citizens and permanent residents that were held in Venezuela. So it's a little complicated
00:30:42there. But the El Salvadorans remained in Salvadorian custody. And subsequent reporting
00:30:47and investigation found basically incomplete information about the locations. They were
00:30:52basically just deleted into the El Salvadorian prison system. And specifically, their super high0.96
00:30:57high security scary prison, the it's a seesaw or the terrorism confinement center. It's their
00:31:03maximum security mega prison, the one where like you see all the tattooed men running in
00:31:07lines bent down and stuff you know what i'm talking about for them so what they got the
00:31:12gangs make make being in a gang a bad thing right now if you're in a there is no better way you can
00:31:18go into prison in the united states than being in a gang now you're just in gang part two you've got
00:31:23no and if you're not in a if you're not in a gang before prison well you better well become in a gang
00:31:28once you're in prison because they're gonna your prison consultants and even the prison like people
00:31:32are gonna group you by your race and then you have to join that gang and so it sucks but that's how
00:31:37it works and really sucks for employment afterwards. Cause as a white guy, I have to0.97
00:31:40join a white nationalist game. That's going to be terrible for my employment record.
00:31:45It would suck. It would suck. I mean, I think it's different in the, the like white collar0.93
00:31:49prison. So it depends on what you're going in for. Um, I don't, I don't, I wonder if there are
00:31:53gangs and like the, the low, the, the low security ones where it's all like people committing
00:31:59financial fraud or whatever, but yeah, it depends on what you're in for. I don't know. I don't know.
00:32:03I guess, I guess you'd go to a rough prison or maybe a fan. Who knows? Elizabeth Holmes is in a,
00:32:08she's, she's like hanging out with real housewives and stuff. Really? Yes. Um, she's best friends1.00
00:32:13with some like celebrities in there. It's funny. It's like, it's so weird. How do you get into
00:32:18that? I want to know. I know it's, it's, it's weird. I feel like there's this like the Harvard
00:32:22of prisons, you know, you want to get into this one, but you can't really choose. I don't know.
00:32:26Maybe someday I'll do an episode on it because I find it somewhat fascinating. Um, but anyway,
00:32:30um the the el salvadorian government was absolutely compensated by the united states for this we don't
00:32:36know exactly what they were paid because the model was this government to government detention
00:32:41arrangement it was financed through a state department law enforcement grant and it's not
00:32:45publicly transparent or like a commercial contract with a public that's wonderful right
00:32:50but el salvador made money from this and the terms that we do know about included obviously
00:32:57that El Salvador would receive up to 300 alleged Trende Aragua members, that it would hold them
00:33:02for up to one year, pending a U.S. decision on their longer-term disposition. And a March 22,
00:33:082025 grant provided $4.76 million for the law enforcement and corrections needs, explicitly
00:33:14including the costs of detaining the initial 238 Venezuelans. So that grant could be part of it.
00:33:20But a State Department, at one point, the State Department told Congress that it intended to
00:33:25provide up to 15 million for detention related support so that's that's pretty decent for 300
00:33:31people and honestly like oh gosh the amount that we spend per prisoner in the united states
00:33:36is insane per year so like el salvadorian prisons would be far more cost effective
00:33:43and el salvador's economy would benefit from them and as we saw from nick shirley's clip
00:33:48once you rehabilitate criminals to the to the extent where you can put them in a lower security
00:33:53self-sufficient prison you not only could have a prison that is self-sufficient where it's not
00:33:57actually costing you because the workers are producing stuff it could even become a moneymaker
00:34:02so you then have this like weird dystopian future economy where you like get all these prisoners
00:34:08exported to you by other countries that just can't deal with them anymore and then you make money
00:34:13from them while those countries pay you to hold on to them um so i find this all very interesting
00:34:20because you know how much I'm into penal colonies as like a concept because I just want what I feel
00:34:26like it's so clear in the in the information about crime the most important thing is especially for
00:34:31repeat offenders they just need to not be there I don't want them to be hurt I don't want them to
00:34:36suffer they just need to not be here it's not here that's that's the only thing that matters0.86
00:34:40but you have to understand here like what El Salvador is putting together is what I think is
00:34:45a super compelling case that they could they could both export their crackdown troops basically to
00:34:54like keep an out of control cities in control I mean look at what's happening to Paris right now
00:34:58like students are going crazy like what if suddenly there was this model where El Salvador
00:35:03steps in is like hey France looks like you're having a spot of trouble want us to help out
00:35:08and France is like oh yes I do not want to deal with this you know like they just like bring them
00:35:12in and i yeah i don't know i could see it really it could it could really do well especially in
00:35:19places like the eu where their own police forces through various pieces of legislation and
00:35:26bureaucratic morass have been neutered to the point of being completely ineffective you know
00:35:30going back to that famous viral clip of like a police woman in the uk and of course they only
00:35:35have sticks to defend themselves saying to someone who's saying he but he's committing a crime well
00:35:40what do you want me to do about it and so it's going to get to this point where these these
00:35:44these countries with completely feckless law enforcement are going to at some point need to
00:35:50hire the real law enforcement of el salvador yes and like the workaround is oh well it's an
00:35:55emergency and these aren't they're not french people they're not german people they're not
00:36:00british people these are el salvadorians so like they're not they're not subject to our rules you
00:36:04know and they're minorities they're hispanic right you can't be mad that they're they're
00:36:09beating white people because we all love that right that's what we're into and i think the real0.85
00:36:13takeaway from this is like all of these corrupt and crime riddled countries around the world0.99
00:36:20all any of you can just convert to protestantism and be fixed in a few decades
00:36:26i'm joking i'm joking i actually think that the way that he's handling it has much more to do with
00:36:32it than the the changing religious composition of the country well but i also love that he's the
00:36:37exaggerated black and white version of oh my gosh what if we just enforced our crimes like or sorry
00:36:42enforced our laws what if we just actually put people in jail when they committed crimes oh can
00:36:48you believe this man and his his incarceration it's horrible but like uh i mean at the same time
00:36:56you know people like wow this this is extra judicial they're not going to do process
00:37:00and then you look at their high security prison and like the amount of like gang tattoos on the
00:37:06people in these prisons you're like no you're saying they're not in a gang the guy with
00:37:13the extensive gang so he just thought he just thought that the gang tattoos looked really cool
00:37:20in a country that is also how you get murdered getting gang tattoos and i know like i keep
00:37:25getting those recreationally because they think it looks cool because other people are doing it
00:37:29No, they're doing it because, yeah, anyway, I think this is interesting.
00:37:34And this is me saying, OK, my my call is this is not about rescuing four men.
00:37:40This is about proving a business model that is going to become prominent as both demographic collapse and a loss, a loss of law and order takes over wealthy countries that no longer can deal with it.0.60
00:37:54And I'm very excited to see what El Salvador does.
00:37:56So we'll see how this does in how this has this podcast ages.
00:37:59maybe i'm too super off it could be that el salvador just isn't able to execute you know
00:38:03it's a great idea maybe it doesn't work but anyway this is what i'm interested in so we shall see and
00:38:09thanks for having me look into this i love you so much simone you are an amazing woman and thank you
00:38:14for your time today thank you for your attention to this matter while you're dicking around with
00:38:19that i can drop in the indie cat song so our fans can watch that in the background this we made for
00:38:23little daughter literally no prompt no editing for me nothing just just direct with the archiving
00:38:30sun comes up the window's bright somebody slept curled up all night two soft ears go twitch twitch
00:38:40twitch stretch your paws and scratch that itch indy cat indy cat new new fluffy tail and a bow of
00:38:50blue. Indie Cat, Indie Cat, come and play. We want you with us every day. Five little kittens in the sun. Indie Cat counts them one by one. Nose to nose and toes to toes. Where they go, our Indie goes. Indie Cat, Indie Cat, mew, mew, mew.