Based Camp - August 04, 2026


New Research: The Left Hates You WAY More than You Think


Episode Stats


Length

48 minutes

Words per minute

177.91

Word count

8,583

Sentence count

147


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 And even in the images, you can see the degree of dehumanization that liberals have of conservatives.
00:00:04.220 Yeah, no, honestly, the liberal composite face of a conservative barely looks human.
00:00:10.240 What I want to point out here is the interesting question that comes downstream of this.
00:00:15.080 Is it tactically a mistake of conservatives to be so forgiving and generous in our perspectives on progressives?
00:00:26.840 Would you like to know more?
00:00:27.900 hello malcolm i'm very excited to be speaking with you today because i saw something on x today
00:00:34.600 that makes me think i should rethink my whole assuming the best of other people thing and
00:00:39.880 politics in general and i need to i need a smart man to help me process this so can we go over it
00:00:46.860 no i'm done okay bye i am done supporting your dumb womanly mind not intuitively no actually
00:00:56.100 you showed me this morning and it was shocking. It was shocking. Yeah. Okay. Let's go over it.
00:00:59.900 What I showed Malcolm. And it does make me re-rethink some things too. Okay. Yeah. We're
00:01:03.240 going to go. The research is actually really fun, but I, what I showed Malcolm and what I'd seen
00:01:07.880 was Cremieux posting on X, there's an asymmetry in how liberals and conservatives evaluate one
00:01:13.480 another. Liberals dehumanize conservatives more than conservatives suspect. Conservatives dehumanize
00:01:19.420 liberals less than liberals suspect. And he was responding to Arctotherium, someone we've covered
00:01:25.540 whose work we've covered multiple times on the podcast, who had written,
00:01:29.640 in the US, liberals think conservatives hate them much more than conservatives actually do,
00:01:34.740 while conservatives don't realize liberals hate them as much as liberals actually do.
00:01:39.220 The hatred asymmetry is one reason liberals tend to win over time, which confused some people on X,
00:01:44.820 but it makes a lot of sense to me. Because basically, if you think that your enemy is super
00:01:50.680 evil and they absolutely hate you you're going to do anything you can to suppress and stop them
00:01:57.260 whereas if you think your enemy is an ass sometimes but they generally mean well you're
00:02:02.740 you're maybe not going to fight tooth and nail to stop them and it's once you have power you're not
00:02:08.300 going to rig the system for yourself in the future right like but i you could see the which of those
00:02:13.840 groups is more likely to rig elections which of these groups is more likely to try to disempower
00:02:18.820 or censor or jail the other group, right?
00:02:22.300 This is a meaningful
00:02:23.160 and it has pretty significant knock-on effects.
00:02:26.960 Both Cremu and Arctotherium
00:02:28.320 were referring to recently published research
00:02:30.380 as of July 7th,
00:02:31.760 and we're recording this at the end of July.
00:02:33.980 So pretty recent,
00:02:35.240 published in the Personality
00:02:38.360 and Social Psychology Bulletin
00:02:40.620 titled Political Meta Dehumanization
00:02:43.820 in Mental Representations,
00:02:45.560 Divergent Emphasies in the Minds of Liberals
00:02:48.480 versus conservatives. And what the researchers found in some is that liberals and conservatives
00:02:54.160 dehumanize each other in different ways and that each side has a surprisingly accurate sense of the
00:02:59.940 type of dehumanization they receive, even while misjudging the overall intensity. So as much as
00:03:06.760 on X people really showing this asymmetry and intensity, it's actually interesting to go into
00:03:11.600 the research and see the different ways that liberals and conservatives are dehumanized and
00:03:17.300 that they understand this to be the case, which is fun. So here's how the experiment they did
00:03:21.520 worked. And it involves funny photos that I'm going to share with you because they make me laugh.
00:03:26.420 So they had participants choose faces that look like a liberal or look like a conservative. So
00:03:33.700 they're really going with people's internal stereotypes. And they did this hundreds of times.
00:03:38.520 And then they created these, they averaged these images into composite faces that approximate,
00:03:44.720 that approximate their mental representations.
00:03:47.840 So what I'm about to show you, Malcolm,
00:03:49.780 is the mind's eye view of a conservative's view
00:03:54.640 of conservatives versus liberals
00:03:56.360 and a liberal's view of liberals versus conservatives.
00:04:00.180 And you'll see that the way conservatives view things,
00:04:02.720 don't worry, listeners, I will describe this to you.
00:04:05.420 Conservatives see themselves as a pretty reasonable guy,
00:04:08.480 kind of happy.
00:04:09.200 He looks like a guy who's watching a sports competition.
00:04:13.180 not very good at this but yeah you know watching a movie he's eating some popcorn he's happy he's
00:04:18.520 okay and the way he views liberals is someone who actually looks pretty similar but just looks like
00:04:25.540 someone ate his last he just went to the freezer and he pulled out the ice cream he loves so much
00:04:31.140 and he finds that it's empty okay that's what it looks like that that face of just oh someone ate
00:04:36.260 the last of my cheetos and i'm sad and that's what a liberal looks like to conservatives now
00:04:42.600 liberals see themselves as a kind of like upbeat happy-go-lucky someone looks like he's he's got
00:04:48.240 his hands in his pockets and he's walking down the street whistling but my god the way the way
00:04:54.240 they see conservatives it looks like a troll man like a frog under underbridge troll is that
00:05:00.980 accurate malcolm that's literally what they think conservatives are is like yeah you can't hear me
00:05:07.040 that's the sound he would make so again we have the guy watching a movie he likes or a
00:05:14.560 football tournament tournament i'm really bad and then there's the guy as seen the liberals
00:05:19.520 as seen by conservatives whose last the last scoop of ice cream was sold of his favorite flavor he's
00:05:24.080 sad he's missing out it's a kind of missing out kind of sad face whereas liberals are like oh
00:05:28.960 i'm a happy person and i'm good versus the scary troll man okay so we proceed even in the images
00:05:35.680 you can see the degree of dehumanization that the liberals have conservative yet no honestly
00:05:39.960 the liberal composite face of a conservative barely looks human what i want to point out here
00:05:46.740 is where we're going with this and i think the interesting question that comes downstream of
00:05:51.820 this is it tactically a mistake of conservatives to be so forgiving and generous in our perspectives
00:06:01.860 on progressives and does it lead us to not be ruthless politically where we need to be acting
00:06:09.160 more ruthlessly or with more energy spoiler alert i think what is really important and you can tell
00:06:15.540 me what your take is but the word condescend used to be used in a positive context it was basically
00:06:22.260 another word for noblesse oblige you would condescend to someone because they were more
00:06:28.140 poor and stupid and you would just make sure they were okay but you also wouldn't trust them to do
00:06:35.060 anything you wouldn't give them the keys to your kingdom or any sort of authority or approval rights
00:06:40.660 over anything because they're stupid but you still have to be nice to them because they didn't choose
00:06:45.520 to be stupid and that's the way that i think maybe conservatives should be approaching liberals to
00:06:51.640 still have empathy and be friends and everything but do not give them mod access to your life
00:06:58.400 right don't give them admin access that would be very bad given the findings of this research
00:07:04.940 so i'm gonna i'm gonna push back on the way that you handle this i actually think that two things
00:07:11.060 i think one in younger conservatives in the new right this naivety is not there in the way it's
00:07:18.740 other versions of the right and this is because so many of us used to be progressives and surrounded
00:07:24.900 by the progressive culture i thought you were going to say because mask goes off on social
00:07:28.820 media people didn't used to have that perception now they're getting the death threats i wouldn't
00:07:32.980 understand how extremely negative and bigoted liberals like urban elites are who what they
00:07:39.940 conceive of as conservatives they see them as essentially inhuman they see them as the
00:07:44.800 deplorables as as hillary called them right that is their view of you your worldview and everything
00:07:50.860 you're building and that's the way they'll act they can only act with vitriol and they really
00:07:56.520 lack the ability to empathize and there was another study i don't know if you're going to go
00:08:01.180 into it we've covered it before that looked at a very similar question which was basically the
00:08:06.440 level of generosity with which each side treats the other side and it found the same thing that
00:08:11.660 progressives are just really ruthless and dehumanizing of conservatives and conservatives
00:08:15.880 generally try to see the best in progressives and they think they're just stupid basically
00:08:21.160 it basically showed and i think this is everyone progressives think conservatives are conservatives
00:08:26.620 because conservatives have malice in their hearts and want to hurt them whereas conservatives
00:08:31.100 generally believe progressives are progressives simply because they haven't taken the time to
00:08:34.500 ironically educate themselves on the topics enough and are diluting themselves around specific topics
00:08:40.900 or that they don't have access to all the information
00:08:42.700 or they're just a little slow.
00:08:44.200 It's actually, this study looked at that.
00:08:46.360 So let's go, let's continue.
00:08:47.680 But hold on, what I want us to get to
00:08:48.860 before we get into the study
00:08:50.000 is my counter thesis on this.
00:08:54.140 What would you do?
00:08:54.740 One of the things that brought us to the right
00:08:58.740 is when we were still very genuinely leftist
00:09:03.380 in almost all of our beliefs
00:09:04.960 and the left was attacking us,
00:09:07.700 the right was remarkably accepting and nice to us yeah in a way that i was shocked by given how
00:09:16.300 much everyone i had been with had dehumanized these groups and repeatedly in fact i would say
00:09:22.400 this is how the right long term is winning the culture war and will win the culture war the left
00:09:28.020 had no reason to lose jk rowling they had no reason to lose elon they had no reason to lose
00:09:33.720 Joe Rogan. They had no reason to lose JD Vance. They had no reason to lose Ted Cruz. Sorry,
00:09:38.960 not Ted Cruz. What is it? Kennedy. They had no reason to lose RFK. They had no reason,
00:09:43.060 just like all of the leaders of our movement. They had no reason to lose us. Like literally
00:09:48.160 the point that we disagreed with them on is we should be able to talk openly about statistics
00:09:53.560 around fertility rates and genetics. Like that, that for me, like that for me was like the big
00:09:59.040 thing where I was like, I can't deal with this anymore. I can't keep pretending this anymore.
00:10:03.200 this needs to end and i got radicalized but but what allowed me to become radicalized and so many
00:10:10.880 people on the right are like this is the acceptance of i may disagree with you on this in this point
00:10:18.080 but come on here let's have a conversation let's try to figure out what's actually true and we can
00:10:23.000 use that to attempt to move civilization in the right direction and you see this i mean as we
00:10:26.960 always talk about like kami mommy leaflet sorry not leaflet shoe on head the right broadly likes
00:10:31.400 her online even though like her politics would seem pretty radically different and it's simply
00:10:35.660 because she doesn't dehumanize us and she doesn't treat us with derision and hostility right and this
00:10:43.940 is a very useful tactic however at the same time we need to remember while we should be as accepting
00:10:52.140 as people from other perspectives who live life in different ways as we can be right and it is not
00:10:57.360 cool to signal oh i'm homophobic is like a cool thing or whatever i'm anti whatever is a cool
00:11:03.220 thing like even if you personally disagree with this that doesn't help our wider political faction
00:11:07.560 and that doesn't help people like people who would have said about me oh i'm gonna signal
00:11:11.540 back when i was pro-abortion or something like that people like him are horrible and want to
00:11:17.420 go out and murder babies and want to which is not a mainstream argument on the right they're just
00:11:21.300 like no they haven't thought through this that would have pushed me away right for me to change
00:11:25.640 all of my other views was access to right-wing information required me feeling comfortable in
00:11:30.980 these communities and part of the wider community, right? If you disagree with something, it is
00:11:36.140 critical that you help people feel comfortable, that you help people when they come in. That said,
00:11:42.340 at the same time as all of that, I think we need to be going in the complete opposite direction
00:11:48.300 in terms of trusting the other side with power, trusting them in office, trusting them to do
00:11:55.200 anything you should assume that at every chance that they get they want to largely because they
00:12:01.920 keep loudly signaling 9-11 was awesome like the the largest leftist streamer has repeatedly said
00:12:07.520 this yeah the framed picture of that 9-11 tower is the sun behind him while he streams you choose
00:12:12.520 what's behind you you're like this is the thing that i think it's the innocent americans losing
00:12:16.180 their lives right their level of evil in their intention you it could not be higher your level
00:12:23.820 of heat in terms of winning the civilization like the civilizational battle around ai that they are
00:12:29.580 attempting to kill leaflet over giving away something for free to them right they we need to
00:12:38.200 be absolutely ruthless in our quest for power and in terms of our long-term vision of how we use that
00:12:45.300 power if you look at the camela interviews after she lost the election and they're interviewing her
00:12:50.500 about what would you change differently?
00:12:52.080 She's like, I would have focused more
00:12:53.040 on how we need to change how voting works
00:12:54.920 and we need to stuff the justices in the Supreme Court.
00:12:58.360 Too big to rig.
00:13:02.200 It means being ruthless.
00:13:05.740 They are ruthless.
00:13:07.980 We need to be ruthless too.
00:13:11.240 And by that, I do not mean cruel.
00:13:14.140 That is not our nature.
00:13:15.940 By that, I do not mean breaking the law.
00:13:18.620 That is not what we do.
00:13:20.500 But I do mean we must be uncompromising and we must allow for a real conversation about revisiting certain things.
00:13:36.220 For example, and I know this is going to be controversial coming from me in particular, we need to revisit the Electoral College.
00:13:44.040 we need to revisit the point of expanding the court to 13 justices like we have 13 district
00:13:56.560 courts we need to revisit if they so want statehood for puerto rico and dc yes
00:14:07.840 basically i would have focused more on how i should cheat so that the right can never
00:14:13.720 win again. That's what appeals to average leftists these days. And she is fundamentally right. That
00:14:19.540 is what appeals to average leftists these days. And because of that, we need to understand
00:14:24.580 that we can treat our opponents with empathy and be kind to them while still expecting them to not
00:14:31.720 play fair. And as a result, be willing to be more aggressive in the way we're playing ourselves,
00:14:37.320 but continue. So to bring it back to the study, they created these composite images. Okay, great.
00:14:43.720 Then they had a new group of people.
00:14:46.400 So now we're a separate sample.
00:14:48.260 They don't know where the images came from.
00:14:50.300 They're just looking at these random images
00:14:52.020 that I just shared with you in isolation.
00:14:53.440 And they asked these people to rate each composite face
00:14:58.660 on savage slash aggressive, lacking morals,
00:15:04.480 barbaric slash cold hearted.
00:15:06.140 So basically savagery and then immature slash irresponsible,
00:15:10.300 irrational slash illogical naive slash gullible so immaturity so basically they're rating them
00:15:17.880 on savagery versus immaturity okay and now i'm going to share with you oh and also plus a general
00:15:24.120 warmth and evolvedness so let me share with you how they rated out group images here
00:15:30.980 and then we'll go over the findings after this for study two they did the same thing but basically
00:15:39.200 asking participants to model how the out group would view them so they'd ask how do how do you
00:15:45.100 think conservatives see you if you're liberal or how do you think that that liberals see you as a
00:15:52.820 conservative and so they did that and then they created new composite images and here is are those
00:16:02.940 images and you can see they're somewhat interesting this is the same no it's not no so what you're
00:16:09.180 looking at now is the conservative and liberal participants met a representation that is to say
00:16:15.540 how they think the out the out group that is to say i think you sent me something wrong no that's
00:16:24.020 right no it's confusing it that's why i asked for 10 more minutes i was like no the bottom right
00:16:27.880 image looks exactly the same that's because that is exactly the same so that's the rep that's the
00:16:32.820 original representation of the oh i understand so what you're looking at the bottom row is the
00:16:37.440 exact same so you're looking at how conservative participants think liberals see them on the top
00:16:42.080 which is actually pretty accurate right they somehow frog monster appears again because
00:16:48.400 conservatives know how the outside sees them weirdly the liberal participant doesn't look
00:16:55.820 like that sad man whose last scoop of ice cream had been taken it looks like a frog woman actually
00:17:01.540 the conservative representation of progressives is so much kinder than what the progressives think
00:17:06.220 of them, it's shockingly different. Yeah. Like liberals think that conservatives see them as
00:17:11.080 deformed frog woman. Whereas what they really see is a slightly disappointed man who realizes that
00:17:17.560 his favorite ice cream flavor is not available. And then, yeah, when you compare, still, when you
00:17:23.200 compare their original angry frog man view of conservatives with how they think conservatives
00:17:29.700 view them, they're still, they see themselves as more feminine, which is interesting. They assume
00:17:34.320 the conservatives just assume all all progressives to be women which is interesting do you notice
00:17:40.860 that too how the meta representation that is to say how liberal participants think that they're
00:17:46.100 seen by conservatives is basically female they're seen as female and kind of ugly does that make
00:17:52.760 sense or just a woman honestly not the prettiest woman but still definitely it's the most female
00:17:58.180 appearance whereas actually i would say male conservatives do progressives is just sad men
00:18:03.880 which is really funny i just find these images so funny okay so anyway they have which is also
00:18:09.680 ironic because conservatives are much happier than progressives on average yeah and actually
00:18:13.740 progressives are sad men progressive men are sad men and progressive women are more like
00:18:17.700 sad women it's accurate okay very based i mean we always joke that like the traditional value
00:18:24.260 system the the sins that are laid out in the bible are like here's a bunch of rules about how to like
00:18:29.320 not live a terrible life right like follow these rules and things will don't stick your dick on the
00:18:35.880 electrical fence don't be on the electrical fence right please don't and they're immediately like
00:18:40.200 i'm gonna i'm gonna electrical fence max my life i'm gonna i'm gonna do whatever that is but times
00:18:46.660 10 and when you build a life off of that and this sort of external projection of having an extreme
00:18:54.280 external locus of control obviously that's going to psychologically destroy an individual anyone
00:18:58.420 with a psychological background could have seen this coming but whatever but whatever that's where
00:19:02.100 we are continue anyway so they so what we have now is how conservatives and progressives view
00:19:09.540 themselves and how they think outsiders view them great this is good data and it's cool what they
00:19:14.220 did with these composite images plus they're really funny looking and then they had a new
00:19:18.460 group of raters again evaluate these meta representations again meta representation is
00:19:23.800 how they think the other group views them so they had them look at the the meta representation images
00:19:30.000 side by side with the real out group images and then they used the same savagery and immaturity
00:19:36.720 rating scales plus warmth and evolvedness so that's what they did let's find an evolvedness
00:19:43.580 evolvedness yeah just like how yeah how enlightened is this group is this yeah evolvedness
00:19:50.580 That's the best way to put it. Look, just let it be. Okay. Core findings. They found asymmetric dehumanization, just as Arctotherium and Cremieux reported. Basically, when a conservative thinks about liberals, their mental images emphasize liberals as immature, irrational, naive, and irresponsible, more than as savage or evil.
00:20:13.380 Whereas when liberals think about conservatives, their mental images emphasize conservatives as savage, aggressive, morally lacking, and cold-hearted more than immature or silly.
00:20:24.180 We are cold-hearted after all.
00:20:26.460 But anyway, another really key finding is this out-group over in-group dehumanization.
00:20:31.960 Reverse correlation composites of in-group faces are rated as less dehumanizing than out-group faces, both for liberals and conservatives, even after controlling for general warmth.
00:20:42.880 And also there are these inaccurate assumptions around intensity of hate, as we saw really played out well in those images.
00:20:48.920 But when people imagine how the other side sees them in these meta representations, those images show the same relative pattern.
00:20:57.320 Conservatives expect to be seen as savage more than immature and liberals expect to be seen as immature more than savage.
00:21:03.900 But liberals overestimate how dehumanized they are, which is super clear from the image, as you saw.
00:21:09.580 How immature they're thought of as.
00:21:12.080 Well, conservatives underestimate just how dehumanized they are by liberals. And in terms of the discussion of the findings on social media, at Reap the World SL wrote, conservatives believe liberals are just misguided but well-meaning people. Liberal believes conservatives are either retarded scum or evil demons, both of who need to be cleansed from the world to usher in utopia. This is why things are the way they are now.
00:21:38.260 To which at James of Bentley responded, yep, I've made this point to people on the left. And instead of it leading to any self-reflection on their part, they usually just double down and say that, yeah, conservatives are just so evil. So alas, these studies don't move the needle.
00:21:53.520 and then scott wellman posted this cartoon i'm going to share with you by at government
00:21:58.300 is the new religion in which there's a liberal person with a pussy hat and a punch nazi sticker
00:22:06.440 saying i hate everything you stand for and want you unalived and then just everyday americans
00:22:12.360 being like naive wearing a little i just want a good life for my kids yeah just saying i just
00:22:17.240 yeah i just want a good life for my kids they're like playing with a little rocket with their
00:22:21.600 propeller hat and i really feel like that um this is where people are pulled to the right right like
00:22:28.220 yeah the people who say this and then they get attacked by the left and they find our side
00:22:34.220 open and kind to them yeah are much more likely to long-term convert yeah i think that's the key
00:22:40.900 is to just yeah maybe increase exposure i think the more exchange and exposure there is the better
00:22:46.260 because the big problem is that liberals oh my god wait is this why liberals do this whole
00:22:53.800 contagion thing where you can't talk to a conservative because they know that the moment
00:22:58.160 someone talks to a conservative and realizes that they're not this frog man that no that is exactly
00:23:04.480 why the iterations of progressivism that didn't do that when i've talked about how things evolve
00:23:08.900 how cultures evolve yeah i pointed out that the iterations of the urban monoculture that did not
00:23:13.520 practice this contagion philosophy ended up dying out because the way that it frames outsiders is
00:23:20.440 just obviously and patently wrong when you begin engaging with them which is again why the kindness
00:23:26.580 strategy is so strong right if you go out there with the lack of judgment and kindness strategy
00:23:32.940 and let's just talk to get to what's better for society long term right um you and this is really
00:23:40.900 the strategy to convert one of the things that i think people forget when they go out there was
00:23:44.980 this performative racism or this performative homophobia or this performative transphobia
00:23:48.980 is they do not understand how much they hurt our movement now i will say these things are
00:23:53.200 fairly rare right we had a gay couple who went to the pronatalist convention and one person
00:23:59.560 was a dick about it said yeah i don't approve of that or something in a way that was like
00:24:03.920 meanish but it was just one person a friend who attended who if they saw anything i'm really
00:24:09.620 sorry if yeah no but it's that was one person at the entire pronatalist convention which had like
00:24:15.780 500 attendees or something like that i don't know it was thousands actually right no there were not
00:24:20.500 there were not thousands okay but the point being is this sort of stuff is fairly rare on the right
00:24:26.920 of today and it should be shamed when it is seen because to win somebody over entirely what we need
00:24:36.060 which is very different than what a progressive needs to win somebody keep in mind nobody's going
00:24:39.280 to switch their entire worldview from urban monoculture to based new right whatever overnight
00:24:45.140 you need to have them have a difference of opinion on just one issue that they won't back down on
00:24:53.220 if they have that eventually we get them that's how jk rowling right even if she may vote leftist
00:24:59.720 today and everything like that in terms of like where she's culturally fighting in a meaningful
00:25:03.020 context it is on the right right you just because what the way somebody from an american cultural
00:25:08.700 perspective reacts is when they go out there was their one sane opinion and everybody jumps down
00:25:15.360 their throat most of them are like whoa now i'm going to double down on this one opinion now i'm
00:25:19.660 going to triple down on this one opinion and they get pushed out and then they begin to interact
00:25:24.700 with people of our side and they begin to get information they didn't have access to before
00:25:28.400 they begin to get perspectives they didn't have access to before and slowly over the course of
00:25:33.380 I'd say on average three years, they begin to adopt more and more conservative perspectives
00:25:39.380 to the point where you would agree with them on most things. And you might have a minor
00:25:43.340 difference of opinion here or a difference of opinion there, but we can only get there
00:25:48.360 if we start with the acceptance of, Oh, you have a difference of opinion on us on the let's join
00:25:56.560 the conversation. Let's be nice. Let's see. You're willing to talk to me, the person I'm willing to
00:26:00.620 talk to you as a person let's move forward but at the same time one of the conversations that
00:26:06.760 historically immediately got shot down is does a continued democratic process in the united states
00:26:14.820 when one party is acting as such a bad actor makes it that's this study i think really makes
00:26:23.020 this more of a serious more of a serious discussion because i think the researchers
00:26:26.920 themselves were like, look, this is a problem because it is well understood in the research
00:26:33.060 that meta dehumanization, which is to say, like, when you think that the other side hates you,
00:26:40.900 predicts reciprocal dehumanization and support for norm breaking and anti-democratic behaviors.
00:26:45.900 That is an argument they made in their research. They're basically saying,
00:26:49.700 warning, this one group is disproportionately dehumanizing another group and they're going to
00:26:56.040 do amoral or even immoral and likely illegal things to try to suppress this group that's
00:27:03.800 kind of a big deal no that is a big deal but i point out here if you're a progressive and you're
00:27:08.680 like come on what do you mean that once we gain power we never allow conservatives back in the
00:27:13.220 room we never allow a conservative opinion again i'm like huh what about the governing body that
00:27:18.340 sort of rules the world like the un or the world economic forum how many conservative thinkers
00:27:24.940 get a talk at those events, even when conservative powers are in charge within governments like the
00:27:30.120 United States and stuff like that. Virtually none. The European Union as well. Virtually
00:27:35.960 none. When progressives capture an institution like that, they build their capture in such a way
00:27:43.400 that conservative voices cannot meaningfully impact things again. And this is why generally
00:27:50.240 as a conservative, the correct strategy when you take over a body is not to try to make a sane or
00:27:56.260 conservative version of it, but to shut it down. Whether it's the Department of Education, whether
00:28:00.520 it's, what was that, like a U.S. give or whatever? U.S. aid. U.S. aid. Whether it's, I believe this
00:28:07.300 also true, the CIA and the FBI, I think both of them should be shut down. I just think from a
00:28:11.660 governance design standpoint and our understanding of institutions, I think pretty much every
00:28:15.940 institution should have basically term limits unless they're designed to be a time-safe
00:28:22.580 organization. And you would know it because it would only have 20 employees 100 years later.
00:28:28.500 And if it doesn't, then it's not. Well, look at the German government,
00:28:30.320 right? In this last election in Germany, the majority of Germans voted for a conservative
00:28:34.600 candidate, either the Conservative Party or the AFD. And yet, despite the majority of Germans,
00:28:40.540 like by a pretty large margin, if I remember, voting for a conservative candidate, the German
00:28:45.280 governing system cheated essentially they formed a coalition to keep the afd out of power and keep
00:28:51.880 a progressive opinion being the dominant opinion and this is just this is the perfect example of
00:28:57.100 that of a group that that hypes the meta dehumanization to such an extent that they will
00:29:04.000 go against the consent of the governed to circumvent the results of an election
00:29:10.080 perfect we saw this in the france recently when the right-wing party was gaining too much power
00:29:16.660 so the left-wing party ended up working with the centrist party to not run people against each
00:29:23.280 other in the districts where rightist candidates were running so that they could again cheat to
00:29:27.780 win and they're like it's not cheating we did it within the system and it's like first of all we
00:29:31.520 don't know how much like when the recent la election where there's all that smoke where
00:29:35.800 there's been a number of fake ballot situations that have been discovered in texas that have been
00:29:40.200 discovered in pennsylvania that have been discovered in a lot of states at this point
00:29:42.860 in the united states we basically they always do this when they finally this is why it's so
00:29:48.260 existential this is why the perspectives of people like nick fuentes should always be shamed in other
00:29:54.440 anyone who identifies as a graper this idea that they would sabotage the conservatives getting the
00:30:00.380 vote in the u.s because they want people to have opinions closer to their own rather than be part
00:30:05.780 of a wide coalition um shows the damage the long-term damage they can do for what is fundamentally
00:30:14.680 because they know they're not going to win the opinions that they're trying to win what it is
00:30:18.700 fundamentally status signaling when somebody goes online like a conservative does and they
00:30:22.880 act aggressive towards gay people they act aggressive towards trans people they act
00:30:26.000 aggressive towards people of different ethnicities or different religions this is never done
00:30:32.000 strategically it is always done for status and to look like the most quote-unquote conservative guy
00:30:37.620 in the room with your current version of conservatism which hugely retards our long-term
00:30:43.720 goals yeah and worse than that can put us in a position where we can never accomplish these
00:30:49.320 long-term goals again and as i've noticed i always cite this the people who do this stuff almost
00:30:54.060 never actually have above replacement rate kids themselves because they're not actually interested
00:30:58.240 in the long-term future of civilization they're not actually interested in us winning they don't
00:31:01.980 actually care what could go wrong. They care about how they are perceived by the general public
00:31:08.160 and their community and what they consider conservatives or their constituency, which is
00:31:13.420 why they act in that way, which is why they fight in a way that is obviously stupid. And people will
00:31:18.560 say, oh, Malcolm, if you let these groups in our communities, they'll still vote leftist.
00:31:26.160 They'll still, somebody was saying this when I was talking about, oh yeah, it was like immigrant
00:31:29.340 populations let them in be nice etc and somebody with the comments was like you can't do that if
00:31:33.800 they're all going to keep voting leftists i'm like bro the majority of hispanic men voted for
00:31:37.640 trump in the last election cycle the be nice philosophy the be inclusive philosophy works
00:31:43.780 actually extremely effectively this yeah i know i like your conclusion a lot more than my original
00:31:49.500 one i think if someone's unwilling to engage i think it's fine to be condescending in the good
00:31:54.320 How much good has Peter Thiel done for the wider conservative movement in terms of the directionality that he's put us on, the major figures that he's brought into positions of power, and the staffing of the White House, which was done in part through his networks of this administration, which has been so remarkably effective?
00:32:11.260 How much good has Scott Pressler done?
00:32:12.880 These are both gay individuals, by the way.
00:32:14.320 The point being is you don't need to agree with everything and everyone in the coalition.
00:32:18.640 over time you can bring them closer and closer to a long-term conservative future but you only
00:32:26.640 hurt us when you do this performative gatekeeping and somebody was like oh if you let all the gays
00:32:31.240 in our movement then they're gonna undermine us and it's like where have they done that we have
00:32:35.960 gays in positions of power throughout our movement and have for two decades at this point and
00:32:41.980 honestly they've been some of the most loyal scandalous conservatives in the entire movement
00:32:50.200 some of the sweetest like scott bressler like i'm sorry compare him to all your ted cruises or
00:32:57.060 whatever right where who do you expect to get some major scandal about right i think that the
00:33:02.220 there's this like oh they'll do x and it's but they don't and we have the evidence that they
00:33:06.680 don't at this point okay so stop acting like they're these weird leftist sex pests that are
00:33:12.780 on the left right like inclusivity is absolutely like i know it's like a scary leftist word to a
00:33:17.880 lot of people but it is absolutely critical to win and through being more inclusive as i said
00:33:24.280 in a recent episode you can be harsher to the out group because you say to people i'm not after all
00:33:31.180 i'm not after all whatever i am after the bad ones right and the bad ones we need to be way
00:33:39.340 more extreme in how we handle that yeah that's like the theme of the summer which is punish your
00:33:45.080 own bad actors intensely bad actors but outside bad actors too but punish bad actors the bad
00:33:53.320 actors and this is where i go further i don't even i think the theme is expel the outsider back bad
00:34:00.740 actors i guess expel your own bad actors but yeah don't ignore your own bad actors and spilling
00:34:06.260 matters more than punishment i want to be super clear about that it's more important it's like
00:34:10.880 that portal song i used to want you dead and now i only want you gone okay it's just wants to live
00:34:16.760 by but i think that it's really important that you remember how hated we are by the other side
00:34:24.180 in how we think about what future power structures look and the direction we want to go oh i know i'm
00:34:31.660 just gonna picture the frog man like our fabs getting to a place where it might become a real
00:34:37.860 meaningful ai company if we're looking at our existing numbers right now right like
00:34:41.700 i really hope so what that means if we become one of the major ai companies chatbot sites ai
00:34:47.360 whatever the various features we ai search ai chat ai etc how baller would that be
00:34:53.100 run by a non-profit that just wants to make the world better no investors no control like just
00:35:00.300 gets to mess around with the world huh gets to mess around as well no but as we that means in
00:35:06.200 terms of how we let in leftists in terms of our corporate structure and everything like that it's
00:35:09.520 not just at the level of like the government of the united states it's we need to use the
00:35:14.600 structures that we have under us as a wrecking ball against what they are hitting us with
00:35:20.380 yeah and i'd also note like this is not the only study to to find this i want to go over a couple
00:35:27.360 other studies here the 2012 pls one paper the moral stereotypes of liberals and conservatives
00:35:33.160 tested how accurately people oh is this the one that you just did no it's not it was no because
00:35:39.180 this one came out in july 2026 yeah stereotypes correctly captured the direction of real
00:35:44.320 differences but exaggerated their size liberals were the least accurate overall especially they
00:35:50.320 underestimated conservatives concern for harm and fairness a large underestimation and overestimated
00:35:56.600 how much conservatives cared about their binding foundations conservatives were significantly more
00:36:02.000 accurate and asymmetry liberals and democrats consistently showed less empathy towards
00:36:07.360 conservative republicans than the reverse and essentially what we're saying here is this is a
00:36:14.660 good thing we shouldn't stop this we shouldn't say this is our weakness another similar study
00:36:19.200 we actually covered in another episode was personality and sociology psychology bulletin
00:36:25.180 published in 2024 political dehumanization and mental representations divergent emphasis in the
00:36:30.700 minds of liberals versus conservatives and showed that liberals dramatically more dehumanized
00:36:35.880 conservatives than the other way around specifically conservatives as we've pointed out just see
00:36:40.260 liberals as irrational naive and irresponsible whereas liberals see conservatives as aggressive
00:36:46.020 moral lacking and cold-hearted and barbaric and then in a study in 2023 empathetic conservatives
00:36:52.720 and moralizing liberals shows that liberals showed less empathy for conservatives than
00:36:58.080 conservatives showed for liberals we should continue to treat them with empathy we should
00:37:02.740 continue to see them with empathy and we should continue the pattern of inclusivity that has won
00:37:07.660 us the cultural vector is that have gotten us to where we are right now but until we're aligned
00:37:11.780 don't give them admin roles and i think that's totally like where we've been moving the movement
00:37:16.560 but it's also important like when you're like don't give them admin roles i'm actually going
00:37:20.440 to push back a little bit there i i think that if somebody is coming to the conservative movement
00:37:26.440 within the culture war and they already have a position of cultural authority and they used to
00:37:32.200 be a leftist and they're beginning to flirt with conservatism oh you can do that's what i say when
00:37:37.000 you're aligned they're in that's fine you're effectively wishing you dead yeah admin roles
00:37:41.860 within organizations that we built and everything like that yes yeah but if you're talking about
00:37:46.200 jk rowling basically was immediately assigned the moment leftist started crashing out on her
00:37:51.260 conservatives were like okay now you are running the trans skeptic movement mrs rowling that was
00:37:56.880 basically the way that we treated it right and she's done a fantastic job we when elon began to
00:38:03.260 have ideas about conservatism and politics and being based we were basically like okay you are
00:38:09.100 now the meme lord of the internet you mean your world mr mr e and he immediately was just ran on
00:38:16.560 it and has been an incredibly i actually can't think of any instance where somebody has started
00:38:22.940 flirting with genuinely conservative ideas and we put we centered them and it's really blown up in
00:38:29.260 our faces generally i i think that's because what we look for as a cultural movement is anybody
00:38:35.180 who's searching for like genuinely like what's the it's really funny what the conservative movement
00:38:39.940 basically is today is people searching for like what is actually true which is why you have such
00:38:45.420 diversity of opinions within the movement what is actually the best way to do this and i think
00:38:49.340 one thing where we're moving because of findings like this because of things recently in studies
00:38:53.880 and stuff like that is the illusion of across various countries of democracies, because we've
00:39:01.160 seen again in France, in Germany, in the UK, potentially in the United States, how the
00:39:05.820 democratic process has been unfairly subverted by leftists who are not acting in good face
00:39:12.240 to maintain power, which then leaves us in a position where we need to begin to question
00:39:17.940 whether the democratic method is the best method for us to move forwards if it's not gonna you're
00:39:24.480 going out there and the other side isn't playing fair you don't need to keep playing that game
00:39:28.700 anymore but i think that's an idea that like starting i don't know these last couple weeks
00:39:33.780 that i'm like no this needs to be way more normalized and less stigmatized as an idea
00:39:37.480 i know like obviously we're not the first ones to talk about this curtis yarvin has been on this
00:39:41.680 forever at this point but if we're setting the tone for where we're going long term what's also
00:39:47.120 true if it just looks like that's where we go no matter what most of the european countries are
00:39:50.880 going to be bankrupt in the near future because of their social security systems and when the
00:39:54.340 majority of the citizens are living off of those systems as they are in many european systems not
00:39:59.540 but if you combine social security and welfare in most european countries the majority of the
00:40:03.440 population is living off of the state that they're not going to vote themselves less stuff so they're
00:40:08.320 just going to end up wrecking their economies and then if you wrecked your economy the state cannot
00:40:12.300 power project as well, which means either you go towards totalitarianism and you begin to
00:40:17.540 withdraw some of these systems and begin to make a system that works, or the entities,
00:40:22.160 corporations that have wealth still will power project more, which is what we're seeing in the
00:40:28.160 war of the tech lords and AI and everything like that, which is again why I say, if you want your
00:40:33.280 movement to control the future of humanity, you need to be appealing to the tech lords.
00:40:36.920 You need to know what's going on in their world perspective, what they value, and how you sell and align with those value perspectives with the things that you actually care about.
00:40:47.220 Because if you isolate all the tech lords, you lose.
00:40:50.140 I don't even care if you control the government.
00:40:51.520 You just lose.
00:40:55.180 Yeah.
00:40:57.020 That's what I meant, Malcolm, when I said don't give them – like a technical admin.
00:41:00.960 Like you're giving someone admin access to your bank account.
00:41:03.860 I would just, if someone identifies as on the left, it just means that apparently their prerogative is to disempower the right systematically.
00:41:16.520 You want to create more right-wing people, celebrity.
00:41:19.740 I'll tell you like a great way to right-wing a celebrity, right?
00:41:22.600 We got to take someone like Sam Ullman and then make him like the voice on X, right?
00:41:27.940 Like the voice on Y, you need to do Y.
00:41:29.700 And it's like X mildly conservative thing.
00:41:31.360 then all the leftists will start attacking him and he'll start moving that's largely why sam
00:41:35.380 altman has been so right wing a lot of people are it's because just kept getting attacked for
00:41:40.680 reasonable takes yeah yeah i agree i think your original point was the most salient which is just
00:41:47.000 exposure the more you hang out with people who are not extremely left wing who will just continue
00:41:53.960 to create this straw man of the right wing you realize that you might be on the wrong side which
00:42:00.520 is the weird experience i had after i met you well this is a really ironic thing about those
00:42:06.960 writers who want to take the griper strategy or whatever if you as like the old right used to do
00:42:12.540 this to some extent dehumanize gay people or trans people or muslims or whatever right and then
00:42:17.760 somebody from your movement meets one of these people and they're a totally normal person without
00:42:21.740 crazy opinions and they're like wait so the whole movement was lying to me right it's way better to
00:42:26.880 talk about the bad actors the sex pests the islamists the people who are fighting and people
00:42:33.960 are like oh you can't tell who the bad actors are you're dumbass if you can't tell who the bad
00:42:37.660 actors are i'm gonna be real honest with you i have seen no instances of me being like that that
00:42:44.840 guy is one of the good ones and then it turned out that they were like psyching me out or something
00:42:49.780 like that that has never happened not with any any essec minority that i can think of any maybe
00:42:55.960 maybe one of you guys can be like here it's one of the ones where you got like the only time where
00:43:00.580 i feel this is somebody who had on the show where i was like oh i misjudged his character was
00:43:05.560 probably richard anania but i think that a lot of people when they look at him would be like he's
00:43:10.660 just a generic white guy nobody was like giving him a pass right even when i look at like where
00:43:14.880 somebody has gone to the other side or done something done a flip or something they've never
00:43:19.900 been one of the cases where it was somebody that i feel that our movement gave an amount of credit
00:43:27.360 to right it just doesn't seem to happen very much and people are making up these imaginary
00:43:31.580 scenarios in their head about why they can't trust x group or y group and they're stupid
00:43:35.940 and they end up hurting us i don't think it's also in the same way that it hurts the leftists
00:43:43.280 when the leftists say all conservatives are evil and they meet conservative and they're like all
00:43:46.100 are all nice which is really important to remember if you ever take the position that all of x group
00:43:51.340 is evil or you allow someone in our movement who takes that position you don't just push x group
00:43:57.920 out of our movement you push everyone who has ever met a member of x group who isn't like that
00:44:03.360 out of our movement and that is incredibly bad and this is why it is so good that we have been
00:44:08.740 able to push out people like nick fuentes and the groipers and we should continue to hold an iron
00:44:13.440 wall against these types of mindsets because they prevent us from taking one a maximally
00:44:20.340 punishing stance against the actual bad actors and two they prevent us from winning elections
00:44:26.860 which is critical at this time in human history well but also like when someone is
00:44:32.100 willing to have discourse with you it's not like anyone gave gives random people who they will mix
00:44:38.700 with okay what's different about the conservative movement and why i don't i'm not even concerned
00:44:42.540 about people who might just switch back to becoming leftists is we're just here for discourse and it
00:44:48.760 doesn't matter if you're from the left or from the right or going to the left or going to the right
00:44:53.180 in this movement i've noticed that if someone gives a dumb take people are going to point it
00:44:58.400 out there's no i have to blindly agree with everything you're saying they'll be like that's
00:45:03.100 stupid whereas on the left it's very different if you say something that doesn't toe the line
00:45:07.720 I don't know Hamas seems to be pretty it looks like in Palestine children are being used as human
00:45:13.640 shields you'll get in really big trouble people will be like yeah I hear you on that or yeah
00:45:19.360 there's evidence for that there's evidence for the other another thing that I've been thinking
00:45:23.060 about recently I've noticed that so many leftists are only leftists because they think that all of
00:45:26.600 the examples of abuses that people on the right find are anecdotal rather than like systemic right
00:45:36.000 they keep passing oh that's an anecdotal case that's an anecdotal whatever absolutely right
00:45:41.100 yeah that was an isolated a terror attack that was an isolated killing that was an isolated
00:45:46.000 instance of oppression of free speech now and this was reported by the guardian over 50 percent of
00:45:52.240 muslims in the uk want think that gayness should be illegal like i think that this is like this
00:45:58.080 isn't isolated and keep in mind if they want this from a sharia law perspective that means they want
00:46:01.800 to kill them this is not an isolated perspective this is the data right so this now means that
00:46:08.220 there are a portion when people are like and this is where it's really easy when people say and this
00:46:12.400 is what makes it a lot harder to attack when you take things this way oh you want to kick out all
00:46:17.480 of the muslims in the uk it's like no i want to kick out the ones that eventually want sharia law
00:46:21.500 that want to kill gay people is that something you have a problem with you want to keep the
00:46:25.140 ones that want to kill gay people that's where you push them so far into a corner that you allow
00:46:30.000 severe actions even at scale gotta get the kids definitely didn't realize things were this bad
00:46:36.640 i guess maybe intuitively we knew this was this bad i just i don't know i want to
00:46:39.960 think that people are broadly reasonable and i guess i have that same tendency whereas when
00:46:45.500 something terrible happens i want to think that it is an anecdotal instance but that goes back to
00:46:52.020 the root intuition and tendency of the left of progressivism and the broad mimetic virus that
00:46:58.620 has overtaken it, which you have identified in various episodes, which is the desire to take
00:47:03.060 the least morally uncomfortable conclusion from something. So the least morally uncomfortable
00:47:09.120 conclusion is, oh, it was an isolated incident. No, that's just a couple really deranged people
00:47:14.400 who identify as progressives, making all of them seem really crazy. But then you see peer-reviewed
00:47:20.120 research come out like this, and it kind of has to change your view a little bit if you're going
00:47:26.440 to actually follow a consistent standard of evidence so sobering anyway i will go get the
00:47:31.860 kids and i love you very much love you too we're doing fried rice tonight unless you want to do
00:47:36.720 gyoza lasagna and give me a break i you don't it's okay it's fine i love you bye
00:47:45.420 what are you doing attack on titan
00:47:58.760 oh god what are you doing what are you doing you are merciless
00:48:11.940 oh my gosh titan