00:41:40.460oh and i know maybe if you're hearing that for the first time you're not like0.99
00:41:44.840really pausing and saying holy shit this is fucking wild0.99
00:41:48.220unless you know what jews are like and then it actually kind of fits especially if you spent0.99
00:41:54.900some time around uh has to deem yeah yeah i don't want to seem like we're going extra hard on jews
00:42:01.320because we're trying to make amends for the last episode because we're not i i think my feeling is
00:42:07.040that our position established on the last episode and available in the latest clip that we uploaded
00:42:12.160to odyssey i thought her position was pretty even-handed i thought it was pretty reasonable
00:42:18.440um but in the wake of that episode we get there was a few people who accused us of being israel
00:42:25.940shills do you see this yeah people people there's a lot of sorry guys but there's a lot of a lot of0.96
00:42:32.280you can't seem to hold two fucking ideas in your head at the same time. Like, yes, we don't like0.93
00:42:37.880the Jews. They're enemy number one. But however, Muslims are our other existential thousand year1.00
00:42:46.820enemy who have never done anything but rape and kill us. So if you think we're going to ally1.00
00:42:52.020with Muslims to fight our biggest enemy, you can go fuck yourself. We're thrilled that there's a1.00
00:42:58.020war in israel we're thrilled at the damage that's being done against the jews and you know what if1.00
00:43:03.980asked to support hamas while losing i would support them but i wouldn't want to support0.96
00:43:09.760them so much that they win the war the best possible outcome is for the war to go on forever0.94
00:43:14.980so that they all die that's the like and i we're pretty clear about that i think i think but again0.88
00:43:22.100some people if you don't you know jews bad therefore hamas good no hamas are a bunch of1.00
00:43:29.440fucking savages they're awful i don't know what's real or fake anymore there's been so many videos1.00
00:43:35.200that turned out to be fake but if you're believing that everything that comes out of israel is a lie1.00
00:43:41.300and everything that comes out of hamas is true like that's just fucking dumb like okay i get0.99
00:43:45.480that jews lie but you know brown people can also lie hamas can also utilize propaganda like it's0.99
00:43:51.100it's they're not fucking noble savages and um i want to think about how i i want to approach this1.00
00:43:59.980you know if let's just say this if there was a gun to my head and they said pick a side0.98
00:44:05.340you have to pick a side okay sure pick palestinians hamast yeah yeah yeah and yours as well but my0.96
00:44:12.600argument was that's a stupid way to frame it and the entire purpose of that clip and the reason i'm0.92
00:44:18.740saying this is because i was in a couple situations where i had to explain this to people0.65
00:44:24.900otherwise intelligent people and it's a phenomenon that i've noticed where it's not just this topic
00:44:30.560there's certain topics that create a knot in people's minds where if you're explaining
00:44:36.540something and they get the sense that you're deviating from the script they have in their
00:44:41.440mind you could say 10 words they stop listening at word four and they autocomplete the rest of
00:44:46.660your statement so that i would say you know our again we were very clear on the episode they say
00:44:51.960oh so you're pro-israel because you know unless you're pro-palestinian you must be pro-israel
00:44:57.900that's the only two things you could be the purpose of that clip that we released was to say
00:45:02.740no what you need to do is actually advocate for your interests and we gave a schematic on how you
00:45:10.340might think about advocating for your interests or more importantly using this conflict to advocate
00:45:17.060for your interests my feeling was if you look at this and you're just trying to pick which side is
00:45:22.840the good guy and which side is the bad guy there's effectively no difference between you and a0.70
00:45:27.280fucking soy jack marvel fan now if you look at the pro-palestinian movements sure a lot of these come0.97
00:45:33.120from western liberals or western progressives so they'll take a western anti-white tone but0.99
00:45:38.640And what I noticed, especially with Duganism and Third Worldism, because all of this pro-Palestinian stuff falls under a Duganist or Third Positionist or not Third Positionist, but Third Worldist framework, it's that they group, you know, Zionism with white supremacy.
00:45:55.120They're almost interchangeable. And you'll see a lot of brown people just see Jews as a type of white person.0.66
00:46:01.960So they don't understand the division between white and Jewish.
00:46:05.900so in essence when you are siding with that narrative you are siding with an anti-white
00:46:11.560narrative that is what is happening and you can think that you're doing that for strategic reasons
00:46:17.280i just think they're poor strategic reasons i think you can utilize this conflict to start asking
00:46:22.120what would benefit my group and there is there are ways to do that that do not involve right you0.97
00:46:28.300you enthusiastically becoming the propaganda arm of fucking hamas i think that's embarrassing and0.64
00:46:34.180And there was some comments on Telegram and try not to be too harsh on people because I want to I want to untangle that knot because I don't want to have to keep like I'll explain myself five times and then some people get it because I sit down and I'll say list what you think we're saying and they'll list it.0.99
00:47:09.420B, I think that actually hurts our position if, for example, for white people, white identitarians, pro-white advocates, whatever you want to call themselves.
00:47:19.280If we keep finding ourselves in a position where we can only side with and cheerlead other internationalist or third worldist movements, I think that that's worse than if we did nothing. That's my feeling about it.
00:53:08.760Just to make myself completely clear on this, I'm not trying to lay all of this at the feet of any one group or one specific person.
00:53:17.180I'm just using these as examples to illustrate the type of thing that we were getting and what I was hearing.
00:53:23.400And one thing that I had considered, one thing that I think can illustrate the point even further, I'm going to use this as an example of the far right groups, a white nationalist group, but I actually think it applies to other groups as well.
00:53:39.300It could apply to anarchist groups. It could apply to leftist groups. So I asked myself, how many times as a white individual or a white group with any political affiliation, but usually it's white people doing it, how many times have you been approached by a other ethnicity of a political stripe?
00:54:02.160How often has a white nationalist group been approached for an alliance by a black nationalist group or anarchist groups or anything?
00:54:12.380Because it seems that the stories I was hearing throughout time is it seemed to be whites and Jews, depending on the group.
00:54:18.960We're always trying to make friends. We're always trying to build alliances.
00:54:22.660We're always trying to bring people into the tent.
00:54:24.960but i'm not sure any other ethnic nationalist organization has ever reached out to white0.95
00:54:32.260nationalists to be friends now maybe i'm wrong but i've just never seen it fucking happen all i hear0.94
00:54:37.880is guys on our side usually white guys are like we got we should make friends with the arabs we0.98
00:54:44.160should make friends with the blacks let's make friends with the south americans let's make0.88
00:54:47.940friends with the north koreans like all that is anyone beating down the door to talk to the white0.97
00:54:53.660nationalists similarly is anyone beating down the door to really talk to the white anarchists or is
00:54:58.920it the white anarchists trying to bring these other groups into their fold and that's just
00:55:04.220something i keep coming back to like no one seems to want to be our friends like that and we're the
00:55:11.080ones always trying to sympathize we're the ones always standing in solidarity and i don't think
00:55:17.960anyone's standing in solidarity with us at least i don't see it maybe people can send me all these
00:55:22.640examples but a lot of the people that i know are the most aggressive about building bridges0.96
00:55:27.040they are the ones building bridges i've never seen any motherfucker build bridges to us so to me like0.92
00:55:34.720that was the core of my argument which was that i am not going to be shepherded into another0.98
00:55:41.020anti-white narrative it's it for my psychology for my soul i'm not going to do that i'm going0.58
00:55:46.560to find a way to stake out a position over here that if it sounds cringe and soy jack to hate
00:55:52.160both sides fine but we weren't just saying both sides should i we're also giving that schematic
00:55:57.720for how you could design a community to advocate for your own own interest and and engage with
00:56:04.540this that's something beyond just good guy versus bad guy marvel i'm going to i'm going to say
00:56:10.740inshallah i'm going to like call them my brothers i'm going to try to figure out how i can make
00:56:15.260them my friends it just that doesn't seem to to feed in our interest that only seems to feed into
00:56:21.920their interests and i think that is put forward by a lot of the third worldists and i think you
00:56:27.020need to be careful of third worldists and it is tempting if you have a sort of a white nationalist
00:56:32.380movement to look for other ethnic nationalist movements around the world to see to broker
00:56:37.840friendships and whatnot but i i just think you're ignoring that a lot of these groups just don't
00:56:44.600like you right to your core and the belief that if you remove jews that every every race will get0.98
00:56:50.440along is just silly it's not serious it's not a serious fucking position forget the context of0.99
00:56:56.140this but you're talking about like reducing principles to a single statement and the whole0.99
00:57:00.020idea of it like is our statement to jews bad or is our statement whites good for us the statement
00:57:05.180is whites good so jews being bad is a corollary of that and it's extremely important it's possibly0.65
00:57:10.620the most important secondary thing but it is secondary the most important thing for us is0.93
00:57:15.000defense of white culture white families that's what matters jews are our biggest enemy but they're not0.89
00:57:20.820our only enemy and if you think that you should be throwing whites under the bus because the only0.50
00:57:25.160real issue is destroying the jews then what you are tacitly saying is you're willing to sacrifice0.88
00:57:30.400whites in order to defeat the jews we're not we're not because we think that the reason you're
00:57:35.780defeating the jews is to save whites so it's it's just it's a totally different way of looking at0.61
00:57:40.480it's sad that there's so many people are on that side i don't understand it man i don't know
00:57:44.780you know i i see an event like this and some people cheer it on and they get excited that
00:57:50.900something something something cool is happening on tv but i see this and what by this i mean0.83
00:57:58.180israel versus palestine this fucking more this this meat grinder of sorrow at the end of the0.95
00:58:04.800day it is just suffering a suffering machine that's occurring so it feels you know bad to0.99
00:58:10.200cheer that on even just as a person anyway i'm also cold and dead inside so i don't really care
00:58:14.620i'm just trying to i'm just trying to sound like a person but um i look at that and i get like a
00:58:22.660pang of panic like what are we actually doing to take advantage of this and it's what i i said this
00:58:28.760on the show and on the live stream i said the same thing when keith woods was getting and helping to
00:58:36.000forward the anti-adl thing with elon musk i felt the same thing with kanye west people like you
00:58:41.880Kanye West is saying this and that about the Jews.0.80
01:06:08.900What you can do is rally people against the Jewish Zionist control over here, which is actually what you want to do.0.92
01:06:17.020And you can use this to do something measurable and practical here.0.86
01:06:22.140But you need to craft your own narrative with that.
01:06:24.340Don't just cheerlead that and hope that leads to the ADL not existing over here.0.55
01:06:30.120And unless you're doing that, then you're, and if you're just supporting Palestinians, that only helps them. It doesn't actually help you. And there's a hundred things you can do to strategize, to help you. You know, we, we did a deep dive into Duganism. We did deep dives into third worldism, into all this stuff. And it, it's like, it's, it's worse than something like Antifa. It's worse than, you know, Marxist literature. It's, it's something, it is.0.72
01:06:59.680i think like truly an anti-white threat an anti-white tumor that has taken root in you know
01:07:09.320pro-white spaces and it's taken years for it to get there and there's a lot of people
01:07:14.980who advocate for this and i think it's dangerous they might not even know i actually think this
01:07:20.540is dangerous there's a lot of ideas circulating in our spaces you know i'm not like anti-discussion
01:07:25.140or anti-free speech or anything like that but i'm like i've noticed that there's some ideas
01:07:29.200were if taken to their logical conclusion would end up with i i think it would it would lead to0.86
01:07:37.600like white dispossession more than just straight up shit liberty would you know what i mean yeah0.96
01:07:42.700like yeah it's aggressively anti-white if you listen to a lot of the advocates like dugan like1.00
01:07:47.820he's anti-white supremacy he's anti-white people he hates white people he hates western literally0.93
01:07:53.340he does he's he's on record like as far as i've read or heard he wants to brown the world like0.99
01:07:58.660He likes this idea of intermixing and interbreeding and, like, kind of a wash of cultures mixing, like, a melange with each other.
01:35:49.060so he's saying a lot of these behaviors that people get that they're afflicted by
01:35:54.220aren't necessarily chemical imbalances not on the extreme end he says a lot of them
01:35:58.640can be just like trauma like you can get traumatized into like not being able to sleep
01:36:03.940and stuff he's like a lot of stuff can be environmental a lot of the stuff can be
01:36:07.280you know the food you're eating and things like that but rarely is it a true chemical imbalance
01:36:13.740And you see this with the medication. Like if, if they detect that you have a chemical imbalance, they kind of have a one size fits all strategy to just suppress your mind entirely. And it seems that, you know, you're, you're just introducing gradations of making people catatonic. Whereas, you know, in the past it would be the lobotomy. It's like, well, a lot of these medications are in effect chemical lobotomies. They're just a bit softer, but it's the same one size fits all option to up problems that you don't
01:36:43.740really understand and he gives this great visual example that i love i always think back to this
01:36:49.360he's like you know if this science were so well defined then we wouldn't have the situation where
01:36:56.720you're in a courtroom you know trying someone who's who's on trial for murder and have dueling
01:37:02.860psychiatrists one side saying that he's sane one side saying that he's insane like that shouldn't
01:37:09.000happen it should be if it was actually that scientific but it seems like it's more opinion
01:37:13.920based and all you gotta do is look at your average trial where insanity is on the table it's like
01:37:19.520yeah you could have dueling a psychiatrist that's it it's kind of funny that happens
01:37:24.080um he says over the past 300 years since modern psychiatry emerged we have witnessed the
01:37:31.640medicalization of penalization extending the reach of the state and imprisonment the extension
01:37:37.660of medicine over morals and law the goal of uh sigmund freud and others so that's like the
01:37:43.500the psychiatric state the psychiatric movement taking precedence over law and i think if you
01:37:49.620look at our current legal system that seems obvious it seems that psychiatrists hold like
01:37:56.000this special position in society even still and we've just adopted their language into our own0.95
01:38:02.640daily lives where we are always psychoanalyzing each other and that's fucking crazy the idea that0.83
01:38:08.060the rate at which your average person psychoanalyzes not only everyone around them but their own0.98
01:38:12.720themselves like that's that's no way to fucking live um and he says furthermore that mental
01:38:20.220illness is often used as a way to infringe on the civil rights of offenders and is a safe way to0.99
01:38:25.900shuffle them into a space where they have no rights or control um and this was actually explained0.94
01:38:30.940by Foucault um not to just circle back to that raving queer but that's in effect what he was0.99
01:38:38.420saying it's like it's just a place where you kind of stick the people that are inconvenient they0.97
01:38:42.440can't really explain but you don't really want to deal with and that's what the asylum system was0.72
01:38:47.420and if I don't get to this later he makes a point in the book that I think people should always keep
01:38:54.080in mind um that the event is the deinstitutionalization movement right so there's this
01:39:02.500really interesting movie a documentary that i saw years and years ago i think you can find it
01:39:08.620on streaming services right now it's called cropsy and it starts as a story about this guy who was
01:39:16.240tried for murder i think murdering a girl he was like a vagrant and then it's about sort of the
01:39:23.640mythology of the small town about this creature named cropsy but what it ends up being about
01:39:28.140really is the deinstitutionalization movement uh in the 80s i believe where all these asylums
01:39:35.940emptied out all of their inmates all of their patients and you hear this brought up in the
01:39:42.120culture from time to time where it's like oh we have all these like crazy people on the streets
01:39:46.380they should be in asylums that's where they used to be in asylums it's true but he makes a point
01:39:51.240where it's like you know the the deinstitutionalization movement was not interpreted as
01:39:58.500what it should have been and what it was which was the psychiatric movement admitting that they
01:40:04.100didn't know what they were doing like the entire saying that we're going to institutionalize all
01:40:08.580these people then they basically admitted that they were wrong and just released them into the
01:40:13.380wild um his his position on that was that well you know that first of all you shouldn't have
01:40:20.420institutionalized most of these people to begin with but once you did institutionalize them
01:40:23.880you can't just release them because they don't know how to exist in society again
01:40:27.380so he's like well what you probably should have done is kept them institutionalized till they died
01:40:31.200and then just stopped then but it's a double-edged sword if you just release them and now they're0.98
01:40:36.620just these fucking insane wandering vagrants right but back to the main point which is that you know0.91
01:40:42.860the deinstitutionalization movement isn't seen for what it really was which was0.98
01:40:46.500this whole thing admitting that it was wrong right like we shouldn't you shouldn't just
01:40:52.100force people into these like weird nightmare hospitals forever right um and and he makes
01:41:00.560another point on that same sort of uptick that says um how the aclu the american civil liberties
01:41:07.540union the aclu always embraced psychiatric imprisonment as a form of social control
01:41:13.000which is interesting the civil liberties move right you think that they would be advocating
01:41:17.480for your rights as an american citizen but they were always the first ones who were on the side
01:41:24.020of psychiatric imprisonment and there's two main guys who were the main proponents of this one was
01:41:30.840named dr menninger and the other was named dr clark they're the two forces in american society
01:41:36.380He says that we're driving this adoption of sort of medicalized penalization or creating a parallel prison system, in effect.
01:41:46.700And he had said he states that the ACLU is an ideological and economic captive of the liberal medical psychiatric establishment that prioritizes health over liberty.
01:41:58.360I think that's the center of his argument, that they're prioritizing health over liberty is a slippery slope.
01:42:06.380and that's how eventually you give total authority to these doctors0.99
01:42:10.600that don't really know what the fuck they're doing.0.99
01:42:13.780It's an epidemic of psychiatry that we are dealing with.1.00
01:42:17.980We don't have an epidemic of mental illness, we have an epidemic of psychiatry.
01:42:21.740You eat too much, it's a disease, it's an addiction.
01:42:32.960You have too little sex, it's a disease.1.00
01:42:34.520You have too much sex, it's a disease.0.99
01:42:36.380no free will it's all chemicals no self-discipline no self-control
01:42:41.980and and he he frames it like this this is how he views it this is kind of what i was getting
01:42:47.500at earlier when i was talking about crime he says mental illness is taken seriously if the threat
01:42:52.720is to oneself or to others but he says if it's a threat to others then it's a crime that's
01:42:58.740by law if you're a threat to yourself that's not a crime now there might be some people who have
01:43:04.260strong opinions about that but you know you can you know if someone wants to eat themselves that0.96
01:43:08.800that's not a crime you can't really impose on that person if they want to fucking run their0.96
01:43:13.740life into the ground or act like a madman he said if illness cannot be a crime then crime cannot be0.97
01:43:18.880an illness so he's just rejecting this marriage of using mental illness in waiting crime period
01:43:27.380now what do you think about that because that's really the points where i make would you agree
01:43:32.040that or disagree with that i i don't want to pick nits about it but i think that eating yourself to
01:43:38.780death can be a crime but i think it's the way that you view the state and civilization so that's it's
01:43:43.580a it's a whole tangent but i think generally what he's saying like look if you want if you want to
01:43:48.660take crime as it is currently and say that it we can we can medicalize that and call crime an
01:43:56.200illness no if if illness as it exists like alcoholism can't be called a crime um or just0.99
01:44:02.940being a fucking jerk isn't a crime then uh then no you shouldn't be you shouldn't be making crimes0.98
01:44:10.020illnesses i agree um he and this is he makes this other point this is what i i think about quite a1.00
01:44:16.620bit because i never considered this before because when you think of mental health you think of
01:44:21.120schizophrenia you might think okay well all the a lot of this mental illness stuff is wishy-washy
01:44:27.180at best ill-defined but at the very least there's schizophrenia um as this but we don't you know
01:44:34.000we see that right but he says at the core of the psychiatric profession sits schizophrenia
01:44:39.100the most extreme and debilitating mental illness he said at the turn of the 19th century it was
01:44:46.560most common to see mental illness blamed on physical illness like with syphilis syphilis
01:44:52.720like if you syphilis would rot your mind you know there's a lot of famous figures who had syphilis
01:44:58.020that went insane and like al capone was i believe a interesting case of that tom hardy actually did
01:45:04.400a movie about that oh a very strange movie i don't know the name but look up tom hardy
01:45:10.400al capone movie it's actually just following him in the final like year of his life when he's like
01:45:17.520on house arrest in his mansion the fbi has seized all his assets they're trying to locate al capone's
01:45:25.880secret stash of money because al capone was rumored to have this money that he buried somewhere1.00
01:45:31.260the fbi wants it problem is al capone is riddled with syphilis and losing his fucking mind he's0.99
01:45:38.640wandering around his mansion pissing and shitting himself and getting in fights with plants and the0.98
01:45:43.960movie is just that it's a very strange not a rewarding movie but give it a shot if you want1.00
01:45:51.560to see like tom hardy as like a a man whose brain is rotting out of his fucking ears and eye sockets0.88
01:45:58.820as as the fbi is like mr capone are you okay where's the gold like why is the fbi just want0.99
01:46:07.040it's not even that much probably but anyway but the point is that syphilis was always or some
01:46:13.540physical ailment was the cause of a mental impairment um but he said but through schizophrenia
01:46:19.800it shifted through schizophrenia it turned into a study and treatment of misbehavior
01:46:25.760since no physical issue could be found so that's the thing like you would judge misbehavior as a
01:46:33.140result of mental illness and then mental illness as some kind of physical or perhaps even environmental
01:46:39.900cause maybe even trauma but something like that but with schizophrenia they started studying
01:46:45.960misbehavior or social maladjustment as the thing you're treating in itself you're not trying to
01:46:52.180treat the cause that is the cause misbehavior is the cause and that is an important shift i think
01:46:58.740That's the world we live in right now where mental illness is seen as the cause of other things.
01:47:04.400You just have mental illness as as if it were a tumor, not that it's caused by something that you can fix.
01:47:11.860You know, then you remove. There's no cure for mental illness.
01:47:15.160And we've accepted that because, you know, even with syphilis, like, well, it's terminal, but we know what it is with with a lot of these other mental illnesses.
01:47:21.600as we accept them the only thing we can do is conduct ongoing permanent treatment you know
01:47:29.320evolving treatments you know for these things that don't even they might not even negatively
01:47:34.420impact their lives it's just seen now as socially maladjusted um he says schizophrenia is actually
01:47:42.980just a cluster of systems and the name schizophrenia itself comes from divided mind that's the the
01:47:49.380root phrase there and uh it's uh treated as a perfected mind that's been corrupted either by
01:47:55.920disease by mental illness whereas the author just sees it as a developmental problem the same way
01:48:01.580he says schizophrenia is a developmental problem the same way as homelessness or competence0.89
01:48:07.400now i don't know if i agree with that but i like it you know what i mean like you're a schizophrenic
01:48:13.980in the same way that you're like a homeless junkie you know like there's something there's
01:48:18.420something wrong with you or it's like it's not something that you're infected by it's like a
01:48:24.340cluster of symptoms and you're just like some he would make the argument that you're actually just
01:48:28.860um like morally repugnant now and i don't know if i agree with this but i'm gonna state it
01:48:34.700my wife actually brought i think she brought this to my attention i'm gonna give her credit
01:48:40.080but somewhat at some point it said that they never known a good person to get alzheimer's
01:48:48.420now that's a big claim but i was thinking about it like like is alzheimer's just
01:48:54.640yeah like do the people get alzheimer's they tend to be just like bitter shitty people in life
01:49:00.660um and then i'll like how many good people get alzheimer's like i don't know like that's
01:49:06.480i'd have to think about it and i put that to the listeners because that might be something that just
01:49:12.320hasn't been thought about but he's kind of making the claim that you know a lot of these
01:49:15.900these maladies might be that you're a quote unquote bad person and a lot of people will
01:49:20.740throw sand on that because it sounds too simple but hey mate i i'd like to entertain that idea
01:49:26.420for me for in my life anecdotally the schizophrenia dementia and alzheimer's all track0.99
01:49:32.700with people who relatively speaking led lives where they were a pain in the ass and people0.98
01:49:38.920didn't like being around them so yeah and another example he gives is hysteria and this is another0.98
01:49:46.120shift another pivot that i thought was interesting he says let's take hysteria um historically
01:49:52.560hysteria was seen as someone who pretended to be sick right you're hysterical you know you got
01:49:58.560munchausen syndrome or you know it's all in your head but it's all in your head but you're just
01:50:04.140kind of kooky and you know it's the woman disease right but what freud did was when in the past0.97
01:50:11.980people would dismiss it like oh you're fucking hysterical okay that means we don't need to take0.95
01:50:16.200you seriously because it is all in your mind however what freud said that you know the desire0.99
01:50:22.060to be seen as ill is illness itself that if you have a desire to want to get attention that way
01:50:30.540that itself is an illness now he makes a point this is what i want to get to that this process
01:50:36.800legitimized what were once seen as unserious conditions and i think that legitimization
01:50:44.240of the unserious completely unbalanced our view of how society operates because we can no longer
01:50:51.280say that anything is unimportant like you can draw a line right from this to the me too movement if
01:50:56.280you wanted to about the legitimization of feelings regardless of what those feelings are or how
01:51:02.640grounded in reality those feelings are it's just and and i've listened to a lot of women especially
01:51:07.660but i've listened to a lot of students of psychiatry they'll speak to other psychiatrists
01:51:13.900or speak to each other and they'll they use the word feel a lot it's like oh i i don't we don't
01:51:18.560like using definitive statements we don't like using words that are too grounded or too forceful
01:51:24.760everything is about feelings i feel this way and i feel that the way you're feeling0.99
01:51:28.920makes me feel this way it's but it's the legitimization of whatever the fuck you're0.98
01:51:33.480feeling at all times and that's no fucking way to have a society that's no way to run your life0.99
01:51:39.540that's fucking crazy you have to have the mechanisms to say oh these feelings matter0.96
01:51:43.560these feelings don't matter but you're just saying that everything hysterical is valid like0.99
01:51:48.780jesus christ well look where that gets us right and uh he's got a quote here
01:51:55.180i believe it's from um gk chesterton but this was in reference to what we were talking about
01:52:03.580that previous episode about how um political killers and assassins oftentimes they're like
01:52:11.900lee harvey oswald and others they try and get hit or surhan surhan they try and pin them with the
01:52:17.600insane offense as if an insane person would shoot the president um he's got this usually they're the
01:52:23.960most sane people they're the most driven the most focused like why the president why not just anybody
01:52:28.400right um he says the madman is not a man who has lost his reason the madman is someone who has0.97
01:52:35.580lost everything except his reason i like that because really you know why not shoot the president0.86
01:52:43.000like if you have a problem with society or if you have something wrong with what the president0.76
01:52:47.420did it maybe it is rational that you shoot the president i'm not advocating for shooting the
01:52:52.480president but like if you've lost every connection with social norms it's not it's not an insane0.94
01:52:59.400thing is the point yeah yeah maybe it's completely irrational to like i shouldn't even fucking say0.57
01:53:07.700this i'm gonna figure out if i should believe this later mike it can be completely irrational0.72
01:53:14.180to want to the cia headquarters like is it is it irrational to want to
01:53:23.860the nsa building it's it's this division well it's the whole thing about the whole thing about
01:53:30.900medicalization right it's dividing putting a dividing line between what is good and right
01:53:36.140versus bad and what is rational and sane versus irrational and insane like you can't possibly
01:53:43.080believe that a sane person would want to do a bad thing you know what i mean or that an insane
01:53:49.440person would want to do a good thing you know the corollary of that but the truth is that sometimes
01:53:54.380people who are totally sane and rational want to do bad things and they have perfectly clear
01:54:02.200cogent rationale for the horrible things that they want to do and they're not insane they're
01:54:07.680just bad people it's it's a real thing it exists yeah you bring up like good and bad that's a
01:54:14.600interesting way to look at it that no matter how medicalized we get we always we have to return to
01:54:21.080this understanding that there's good people and there's bad people or there's a good action and
01:54:25.320a bad action in the broadest possible strokes and he talks about this when he speaks of dr menninger
01:54:31.120dr menninger which was a a big he was a big public advocate for this stuff
01:54:35.980um he said dr menninger is a leading psychologist in the country and was instrumental in moving
01:54:42.560in a progressive direction from penal punishment to medical treatment and this is his thing he
01:54:48.400stated that everybody has mental illness just to different degrees and everyone should be treated
01:54:55.100and this could be even described as ideological backing but so you have to understand like the
01:55:01.180advocates for this they don't think there's a sane person everyone's insane there's just different
01:55:06.100types of insanity so and and they are the arbiters of who what what level of insanity you are at
01:55:13.360constant goal is the fact that these individuals who are misjudged and and uh and uh often disliked
01:55:23.620or feared by other people often have such great capabilities so that the I would say that maybe
01:55:34.280you could say a psychiatrist is somebody who is constantly aware that the stone rejected by the
01:55:39.300builders may become the head of the corner. Consider that like you don't know what mental
01:55:45.380health is in that sense though like what is a mentally healthy person if everyone is mentally
01:55:51.220ill. So if you don't know what a healthy person is, how can you judge what illness is, right?
01:55:57.500He furthers this by saying, he says, the Constitution of the American, the American
01:56:01.900Constitution was written in a conceptual and moral vacuum, creating a craving for moral order.
01:56:09.220Psychiatry and the medical establishment broadly moved into this role. That's his claim. And I
01:56:14.360think, you know, even if you disagree that the Constitution was written in a moral vacuum,
01:56:20.260it does seem that at some point the morality was found absent from it and then psychiatry moved
01:56:27.720in to try to answer the question of how do we judge what is good or bad in a secular sense
01:56:33.100in a secular liberal sense in a secular liberal society you could only have psychiatry you can't
01:56:39.440have religion you can't have spirituality you can't have anything else certainly can't have
01:56:43.880tradition right and um he's got a interesting story here he's got a bunch of examples there's
01:56:51.520a lot of great examples in this book let me just pull up here it was the the case of tennessee
01:56:57.900williams tennessee williams is a name a lot of people might know um i'll just read an excerpt
01:57:04.860here he says on february 24th 1983 tennessee williams died in new york on march 5th 1983 he
01:57:11.980was buried in an elaborate Roman Catholic ceremony at St. Louis Cathedral. His body laid to rest in
01:57:18.540a consecrated ground of cavalry cemetery. He's finally going to be in a good St. Louis neighborhood,
01:57:25.780explained Tennessee Williams' younger brother, Dakin, who made the funeral arrangements. Now
01:57:30.480he's going to be near the right people. Although this was the funeral Dakin Williams wanted his
01:57:35.180brother to have, it was precisely the funeral his brother did not want. Tennessee Williams actually
01:57:40.960wrote um a codicil to my will provides for the disposition of my body in this way sewn up in a
01:57:46.920clean white sack and dropped overboard 12 hours north of havana so that my bones may rest not too
01:57:52.840far from those of heart crane this is what he actually wanted um but it was not afforded to him
01:58:00.780because his brother just decided that you know tennessee williams was mentally ill when he was
01:58:07.040writing his will um basically the whole story was that tennessee williams didn't give any of his
01:58:14.380will to his brother dakin and dakin was making the case that tennessee williams wasn't in sound
01:58:20.280mind when he wrote the will so he argued despite tennessee williams writing this all down his0.93
01:58:25.520autobiography writing it down in his will his shit brother decided to be like oh well i'm just0.99
01:58:32.180going to convince them that you were mentally ill so not only i get money i'm going to have you0.99
01:58:37.700buried where you want to be buried he says we live in a secular society not in a theocracy0.79
01:58:43.540this is why involuntary psychiatric psychiatric interventions do not violate the protections
01:58:48.700of the first amendment but involuntary religious interventions do what then gives a catholic
01:58:54.780priest the right to bury a man in a religious cemetery ceremony that that the deceased did
01:58:59.440not want even if such a priest is not guilty of breaking the law he's guilty of violating
01:59:03.840the ethic of respect for persons it is one thing for Dakin Williams to try and deny his brother's
01:59:10.220autonomy dignity and identity it's another thing for clergymen to cooperate in dishonoring a person
01:59:15.300under the guise of honoring him so there's all these cases within the book where like famous
01:59:21.960people you know Lee Harvey Oswald and John Hinckley them getting labeled as insane by the press
01:59:28.440while also fighting it the entire time like all these cases are guys screaming i'm not insane
01:59:34.100this is what i want this is what i want my funeral to be this is why i shot these people
01:59:40.220and then this entire establishment saying he doesn't know what he's saying
01:59:43.660but again what point like what gives them the right like what gives you the right to say that
01:59:49.880even an insane person can't advocate for themselves like can't a person with schizophrenia say
01:59:55.760i burn that house down because i wanted i wanted to burn it down it's like he doesn't know why he
02:00:01.160did it doesn't matter why he did it he's he's confessing to it you don't get to just decide
02:00:06.300that that's not why not not the reason why they did it you see what i'm saying and also like you
02:00:13.160know the insanity defense of ezra pound ezra pound is a great example in this book of a guy
02:00:19.580who was railroaded into over a decade of psychiatric care without giving them a trial
02:00:24.920You know, this was a political prisoner who, you know, oftentimes these asylums are just places to put political prisoners and call them insane.
02:00:32.780There was no reason to believe he was insane.
02:00:36.040And a great case he gave was the case of Jim Jones.
02:00:40.580Now, you remember Jim Jones as the guy who started that crazy church that led everyone into a mass suicide.
02:00:47.900This is the site of Jonestown's open-air meeting hall, where I'm standing right now,
02:00:55.720where the Reverend Jim Jones led his followers into the worst mass murder and suicide pact
02:01:01.800in America's history. Only small golden flowers grow where bodies once lay.
02:01:08.020On that fateful morning, there are more than 940 people living in Jonestown.
02:01:12.240By nightfall, only 33 would still be alive.
02:01:16.880he was deemed insane afterward after the mass suicide however you know up until the moment of
02:01:25.320the suicide he was seen as completely sane regardless of his preaching regardless of the
02:01:31.440things he was saying because you know the mass suicide seemed to logically follow from what he
02:01:36.420was saying you know he was setting up a parallel society with his flock he was being threatened and
02:01:40.920he was saying that he was saying to the world that he was gonna they would rather kill themselves0.98
02:01:46.520than be prisoners and so that's what fucking happened you know but he was never seen as insane0.98
02:01:52.420until that moment despite his liberal connections because he was friends with the clintons too0.95
02:01:56.920jim jones this is the thing they try and bury just like epstein he was friendly with everybody he was0.76
02:02:03.140whining and dining with the clintons with every democratic big wig you could think of they all
02:02:08.940love the guy so how was he like sane the entire time and only saying that you don't get to just0.76
02:02:15.260make those demarcations like that they're either always insane or they actually weren't insane
02:02:20.300and that was just like a an extreme act but the logical conclusion of everything leading up to
02:02:26.120that point and also just i know we gotta get going soon i just wanted to bring your attention to one
02:02:33.880page here it's page 86 i don't want to read this whole thing but it's you can kind of get where0.55
02:02:42.840going from the title the title is why do we fear the retarded
02:02:46.700um i don't i just want to drop that there uh one thing he advocates for in response to everything0.82
02:02:58.540i just said about even your best wishes like your best wishes in a will even a will or an
02:03:05.480autobiography or whatever falling victim to psychiatric attack he says what we need to do
02:03:12.260is create a new type of will he calls it a psychiatric will it will need to be a specific
02:03:16.860type of legal document that functions like a regular will and establishes in sound mind one's
02:03:23.120own determination to not be committed to involuntary psychiatric care which is an interesting
02:03:28.600idea like imagine a legal document that says no matter i'm in sound mind right now i can prove
02:03:34.160i'm of sound mind i i legally want to never be involuntarily committed i would rather just be
02:03:41.020a trial you you can never accuse me of being insane later you know however that document
02:03:46.620should be laid out i think that's actually an interesting idea that's like one less tool
02:03:51.620that can be used against you maybe that's because it's very rare that insanity defense kind of works0.55
02:03:56.240out for you i think maybe it does if you're black but you know the odds are if you're white you're0.93
02:04:03.100not going to be able to get away with an insanity defense anyway this is just something that gets0.93
02:04:06.240afforded to minorities anyway right um another thing he says well maybe we'll end on this this
02:04:13.220is sort of what i was talking about with like jim jones like you can't have temporary insanity
02:04:18.800that's sort of like a thing we accept in society isn't it that you can be temporarily insane you
02:04:24.380can be temporarily not of sound mind how the fuck does that happen how does that work um he uses the0.84
02:04:30.540example of patty hearst patty hearst was we covered this in the book days of rage many many0.99
02:04:36.040episodes ago famous case where a white heiress was kidnapped by a bunch of fucking militant0.96
02:04:44.700communists and went from kidnapper to active participant in the group and you know after the0.91
02:04:51.280fall of this group um she had a lot to answer for why did she side with the group and participate
02:11:28.200is acceptable within your moral framework.
02:11:32.220I think that is a moral judgment on you.
02:11:34.540Just like, okay, I know drinking and driving is bad
02:11:37.840and I know I'm putting people's lives at risk
02:11:40.280and maybe I've gotten into an accident before
02:11:42.120so I'm not good at drinking and driving.
02:11:43.620Some people are just good at it. But if I made the decision to drink and at some point a moral decision was made where, you know, like we talked about this before that cops understand that if someone has broken into your house to commit a home invasion or a robbery, they have already made the mental calculation that your life is worth less than their desire for your property.
02:12:13.620property so people will say that like oh you if you shoot an intruder oh so their life is worth
02:12:19.640more than your property it's like no no that person by committing that act has already made
02:12:24.120a moral judgment that your life is worth less than your property which they want right so it's
02:12:31.440like that's that's the moral internal calculation that happens anytime anti-social behavior is
02:12:37.280committed so i think he is trying to rediscover the moral calculations that still exist within
02:12:44.780a mind that is plagued by addiction and i think if you if you have overcome an addiction like
02:12:52.020here's the thing like because you know i don't drink anymore and i in a sense i think i beat
02:12:57.420that aspect you know i can still be in trouble later in life but like it takes a lot for like0.91
02:13:03.280an alcoholic to trick me like i know all the bullshit i know all the lies i know like some1.00
02:13:08.520people who don't understand how that mind works they can get tricked by i'm like you can't fucking1.00
02:13:12.680i know that you you you're more self-aware than you would like people to think like you would0.99
02:13:19.080probably want people to think like it's a disease i have a disease no you don't you make a decision
02:13:25.660every single time you pick up that bottle and that's uncomfortable for you and i know that it's