Blood Satellite - May 30, 2025


A Very Special Sola GPTuah


Episode Stats


Length

3 hours and 51 minutes

Words per minute

175.49

Word count

40,623

Sentence count

934

Harmful content

Hate speech

351

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 as far back as i can remember i always wanted to be
00:00:07.720 blood satellite the problem was that i was looking for redheads when i should have been
00:00:22.600 typing gingers oh dude huge mistake damn like they gotta know deep down that's an anagram 0.93
00:00:29.320 for nigger right that's why they do it and this is this is the topic though this is the whole point 0.99
00:00:35.660 i thought that was the reason that they created the video we're coming out hopping right off the 1.00
00:00:40.080 skillet on this one boys so i've got i saw this video and you know what i didn't even really see
00:00:48.940 this all the way through i just heard of it you ever do that where you hear about something and
00:00:53.300 then you just you're like yeah i saw it that's that's 90 of my interaction with the internet
00:00:58.160 yeah i probably saw that like how many people actually heard that new kanye west song i saw
00:01:03.040 two seconds of it over someone else's shoulder with no sound yeah how many people really know
00:01:06.880 what happened october 7th was that the one where they stormed the capital i can't remember there's
00:01:14.000 a lot of people do a lot of things it's hard to keep the shin line that'd be so funny if you
00:01:18.880 start fusing that yeah free the october 7th prisoners they're political prisoners
00:01:24.880 free the january 6th just slimes and ultralights like dive bombing the white house
00:01:30.440 somebody just a guy in a palestinian flag wearing it like a cape saying free the january 6th
00:01:36.780 protesters man so i we're looking at an unforgivably ginger face right you know i 0.91
00:01:46.100 mean like i don't think they should be able to call themselves the gingers i don't like this 0.86
00:01:49.520 but let's go on this gingers reacting to being black the black community literally saved my
00:01:57.660 physical life i there's so many i have so many emotions right now i can't even process them
00:02:03.720 the last 48 hours of my life i've never felt more love in my life feeling truly wanted i'm black
00:02:11.180 i got a lot of mixed emotions on this past week i have felt more connected
00:02:17.780 more appreciated and more loved than i ever have from a community of people
00:02:22.320 in my entire life i hope these are all red-headed people by the way i don't know what happened
00:02:31.800 there was a memo there was a parade the word went out that they're black i've been saying
00:02:40.280 that they're black for most of my adult life but we've all been saying that jitters are basically
00:02:46.200 black but there's that one line in there that's definitely and i don't know if these people are
00:02:51.340 faking maybe this is a meme i don't know how coordinated these people are these people
00:02:56.360 right maybe they're just joshing around but i've heard something like that before
00:03:02.500 and this is going to be a reference that you will have no appreciation of but there is this
00:03:07.600 rapper great big fat guy named brother ali he's a muslim and he's also albino white albino
00:03:15.580 Oh, and he's a white albino and a Muslim and a rapper.
00:03:19.740 Yeah.
00:03:20.720 I mean, a Muslim rapper is not that rare. 1.00
00:03:23.680 I don't like this already.
00:03:24.840 But he's a conscious rapper, right?
00:03:26.540 Of course.
00:03:27.080 Oh, of course. 1.00
00:03:28.500 So black people don't listen to him. 1.00
00:03:31.380 Does anybody listen to him?
00:03:33.580 But his brother, Ali, he had a story of growing up.
00:03:38.360 And a lot of these guys have stories like this where they said that, you know, it was the white kids who bullied me.
00:03:42.980 And it was the black, it was the brothers.
00:03:45.580 who accepted me and made me feel like less of an outcast.
00:03:49.740 And I hear that.
00:03:51.640 I hear that and I say,
00:03:53.640 that's not true.
00:03:57.280 Have you met black people? 1.00
00:04:00.600 Have you got the whitest kid in the world
00:04:02.720 and they're not clowning on you?
00:04:04.680 It doesn't make any sense at all.
00:04:06.040 Also, you're an albino. 0.89
00:04:07.160 Like you're a fucking, you're a weird fat kid.
00:04:09.480 How many pairs of sneakers got yanked off your feet
00:04:12.980 and thrown up on the telephone pole? 0.99
00:04:14.760 like you're lying you're a liar this whole bit is something that the black kids put him up to 0.86
00:04:20.740 he said if you go up if you go up there and say this shit we'll be your friend i promise and 0.90
00:04:25.280 we'll give back your your nintendo ds it's explained in a very white way because you're
00:04:31.320 thinking that black people actually have class consciousness and they don't they have racial
00:04:36.020 consciousness but they're like oh you're an outcast from that so come into ours because
00:04:41.140 we represent the low class no no no
00:04:43.060 that's what leftists think they
00:04:45.220 think they don't actually
00:04:47.160 think that they don't behave that way
00:04:49.180 so if you'd be like oh you're like
00:04:51.240 us the rest of the Ocasts like my
00:04:52.820 Mexican brothers no no no 1.00
00:04:54.800 they rape the Mexicans 1.00
00:04:57.280 it's a very rich 1.00
00:05:01.500 colorful tapestry
00:05:03.260 once you get out 1.00
00:05:05.180 the fucking polo court
00:05:07.020 but it's just like a weird line
00:05:09.260 thing like yeah you know they accepted me
00:05:11.060 so i hear that a lot here it's like i'm you know white people never accepted us white people never 0.94
00:05:16.380 accepted gingers not true you know you've got the field niggers you got the house niggers 0.98
00:05:23.440 then you got the watchtower niggers those are the gingers the watch the watchtower niggers 1.00
00:05:29.940 because birds avoid them you've never seen a ginger and a bird in the same room 1.00
00:05:37.840 fuck that how many of you seen a ginger in an aviary you can go fuck yourself never 0.98
00:05:45.140 my eyes have been opened man you can shit out a ship in a bottle sir 1.00
00:05:50.200 i'm keeping that one ginger's reacting to being black i'm just trying to look at the rooms they're 0.77
00:05:57.980 recording this in um i hope there's a good outcome to all of this this whole thing about
00:06:03.880 Genders being part of the black community 0.71
00:06:05.940 Loki hits home for me
00:06:07.920 And I can just see how loving
00:06:10.120 And genuine
00:06:10.940 All of you guys are
00:06:13.380 This past week has been
00:06:15.260 It's a real missed opportunity for Keith Woods
00:06:18.320 Not to dye his hair red
00:06:19.920 And then make his way into this discourse
00:06:21.840 He's got the pass
00:06:25.840 He can say it 0.65
00:06:26.900 Turns out I'm block
00:06:28.920 I don't know how you do Keith Woods voice
00:06:32.300 to do Keith Wood's voice 1.00
00:06:33.980 you gotta be Irish 0.91
00:06:35.260 and then you gotta 0.99
00:06:35.860 talk like a kid
00:06:36.840 talking like an adult
00:06:37.960 yeah
00:06:42.080 ah shit
00:06:43.360 it is 0.65
00:06:44.400 it is isn't it
00:06:45.480 I say that with full deference
00:06:47.020 we love our Keith
00:06:48.900 we love
00:06:49.720 this is a podcast of love
00:06:51.320 I know we opened this episode 1.00
00:06:52.860 by saying nigger
00:06:53.880 several times 1.00
00:06:55.160 but you have to understand
00:06:56.640 that was
00:06:57.260 to apprehend
00:06:59.180 the value
00:06:59.980 of a meme
00:07:00.860 right
00:07:01.900 Look, you can't watch something like this without dropping some hard R's.
00:07:05.120 You're doing it out loud, in front of a mic, honestly,
00:07:08.500 or you're saying it in your head dishonestly.
00:07:11.800 You gotta let it breathe.
00:07:14.040 Yeah. Yeah, dude.
00:07:15.860 Not only is it a hard R, it's a capital R.
00:07:19.140 It needs space, the Lebensraum of the hard capital R.
00:07:24.960 Wicked sick!
00:07:26.080 The font also matters. Don't get silly with it.
00:07:29.640 Just be respectful.
00:07:30.420 this has nothing to do with what we were just talking about
00:07:34.560 but you want to talk about something that annoyed me
00:07:38.180 what do you got I don't know if it annoyed you I was reading
00:07:42.380 just a post by Eric Stryker he always annoys me
00:07:46.720 that sounds true enough and I
00:07:50.100 this will tee up some other stuff we're going to talk about in a bit or maybe it won't
00:07:54.760 actually I'm looking at the notes now this has nothing to do with anything but I'm just going to read it here
00:07:58.880 It says, this is on his Latoria.
00:08:02.800 This is an account on X.
00:08:04.680 This is Eric Stryker of WarStrike, formerly of DeRiceUp.Biz.
00:08:10.320 It says, all my life, critics like Pat Buchanan and Sam Francis have told me that American power is in the hands of left-wingers or cultural Marxists or liberal Deweyite do-gooders who marched through the institutions, universities, government, media, and NGOs.
00:08:26.040 And yet, the second this class of people slightly disagrees with Jews on ethics of mass murdering tens of thousands of children in Gaza for their race or religion, 0.86
00:08:35.140 Jews liquidate this whole class, defunding and purging every last consistent leftist or bleeding-heart liberal from universities and popular culture, 0.92
00:08:43.520 and sending the FBI to crush the activists. 0.98
00:08:45.140 So the whole time, we've been chasing after a red herring.
00:08:47.980 Power in America is not in the hands of the left. 0.96
00:08:50.400 It's in the hands of Zionist Jews who transcended left and right to bring maximum terrorism towards outgroups, especially whites. 0.99
00:08:59.280 And, you know, you read that and that sounds like there's some truth, especially based on the defunding of Harvard that's been going on. 0.98
00:09:05.640 It seems that there's crackdowns on universities over Palestinian protests.
00:09:11.400 Hey, Michael, President Trump has frozen or cut more than $2.7 billion in federal research grant money to Harvard University,
00:09:18.500 accusing Harvard of fostering an unsafe anti-American and anti-Semitic college environment.
00:09:26.020 This morning, the president says that money could soon be redirected.
00:09:29.740 Quote, I am considering taking $3 billion of grant money away from a very anti-Semitic Harvard
00:09:36.240 and giving it to trade schools all across our land.
00:09:39.980 What a great investment that would be for the USA and so badly needed.
00:09:43.860 The Trump administration blocked Harvard from enrolling new or existing foreign students
00:09:49.060 until it fully complies and turns over information about its foreign students
00:09:54.440 who encompass 27% of Harvard's student body.
00:09:58.440 But I mean, that isn't what he said, though.
00:10:00.740 I mean, he said they've completely defunded and broken down the entire left nationally.
00:10:07.320 No, the Harvard and why Harvard specifically?
00:10:10.180 because harvard specifically had anti-israel protests that's it why don't they defund
00:10:15.820 literally every other college in the country which is dominated by left-wing bullshit they
00:10:21.880 haven't they're not even and they're not going to yeah and to me i just look at that and i think
00:10:26.820 about it say i mean can't you just be jewish and left-wing too which is actually the argument that
00:10:31.880 most left-wingers happen to be jewish um and that's the that cultural critique yeah so it's
00:10:38.560 like they're not leftist they're jewish i'm like well they used to be an agreement that those were 0.73
00:10:43.140 part and parcel the same thing the leftism the specific brand of leftism is a weapon that they
00:10:49.320 have used in their march through the institution so you can't really separate them from it yeah
00:10:56.340 and i'm trying to think you know i'm trying to get pat buchanan ever said anything that was
00:11:02.140 anti-Zinus. I'm pretty sure he did, but now I'm looking at the Washington Post, which will not
00:11:08.360 let me look at any single page, unless I'm a subscriber, which says, Pat Buchanan, the Jewish
00:11:14.620 question, and then Pat Buchanan, a feature here on the ADL. Well, I mean, he's got countless quotes
00:11:21.960 here against the Israel lobby. So, you know what I mean? It seemed that Pat Buchanan, it seems like
00:11:27.440 a lot of these individuals seem to be aware of the jewish question in politics yeah like i don't
00:11:33.440 think that was actually a huge blind spot for a lot of these people and that sounds like it's
00:11:38.500 semantics but um i mean there's some truth to it there's some truth that like what did it take
00:11:44.960 to get the punishment to rain down upon harvard well it was that is this a big gotcha though
00:11:51.160 because that's the way he's presenting it's like see i was i told you all along that is
00:11:54.820 The minute you criticize Israel, they'll turn on you.
00:11:57.500 No, I mean, we all knew that, right?
00:11:59.840 And it's not the time it's happened.
00:12:01.800 They kind of manicure their own to make sure there's always support.
00:12:06.380 And when they lose support, then whoever, that little cadre within the group gets picked out,
00:12:12.340 which is what happened with hard work.
00:12:13.340 But, like, it's not anything, really.
00:12:16.620 Well, anyway, also it seems fairly ahistorical to say that these institutions weren't captured by leftists.
00:12:24.600 I mean, that was a big move that happened in the 60s and 70s, especially with the weather underground, finding acceptance in there.
00:12:32.420 Like, you could say that that's secondary to it, but that is true that it became captured by leftist ideology.
00:12:39.580 You can just say it's symptomatic, but it's not a red herring.
00:12:43.620 Look, he's just not he's not that he's not that smart.
00:12:46.480 He's kind of a goof.
00:12:47.440 We made our thoughts on the Israel palace, I think, fairly clear.
00:12:51.840 And I know this because we lost a lot of listeners over it.
00:12:54.600 did we actually nice a fair amount I made a comment on the live stream not that long ago
00:13:01.460 where I said all my Nazi friends are Palestinian now and there was a hot minute where that was the
00:13:10.020 case then a lot of people sobered up from that but I was even talking to an individual just in some
00:13:17.100 group chat the other day by the other day I mean today I mean this morning but uh it was just like
00:13:23.920 oh I support Palestine and I'd said well
00:13:25.740 look, gun to my head 0.99
00:13:27.720 between Israel and Palestine, who would I support 1.00
00:13:29.960 well I'd support Palestine but let me 1.00
00:13:31.900 be clear 1.00
00:13:32.500 I hate both of these groups and if it were 1.00
00:13:35.980 up to me, I would let the Palestinians 1.00
00:13:38.200 win and then I would 1.00
00:13:40.120 if I were in charge, I would roll
00:13:42.100 over the Holy Land with experimental
00:13:43.880 energy weapons and decimate
00:13:45.560 whoever is there because
00:13:47.560 I actually don't like any of these people and I said
00:13:50.040 you know, what had happened was
00:13:52.000 there was that individual who shot the Jewish couple in broad daylight, Free Palestine.
00:14:00.920 The suspect in the killing of two Israeli embassy staffers in Washington, D.C.,
00:14:05.960 appeared to be motivated by the war in Gaza.
00:14:08.420 Free, Free Palestine! 0.78
00:14:11.140 Free, Free Palestine!
00:14:14.540 30-year-old Elias Rodriguez, an activist from Chicago,
00:14:18.380 had in recent years participated in protests and opposed wars in the Middle East.
00:14:23.820 Here's what we know about the alleged shooter.
00:14:27.100 Rodriguez is a resident of Chicago's Albany Park neighborhood,
00:14:30.540 where investigators searched his home in the hours after the shooting.
00:14:34.540 As the FBI gathered evidence, a picture began to emerge of an activist
00:14:38.140 who has long opposed intervention in the Middle East.
00:14:41.660 According to a GoFundMe created in 2017 to help send Rodriguez
00:14:45.620 to the People's Congress of Resistance in D.C.,
00:14:48.780 Rodriguez said he was 11 when his father was sent to Iraq.
00:14:52.220 The Post, apparently written by Rodriguez, said,
00:14:55.180 I don't want to see another generation of Americans
00:14:57.460 coming home from genocidal imperialist wars with trophies. 1.00
00:15:02.180 And the Jews, obviously, are fanatical about this 0.93
00:15:06.560 and using this anti-Semitism at its all-time high.
00:15:09.680 Yes, yes, we hear that every week.
00:15:11.420 but then for this individual released a manifesto
00:15:15.860 anti-Zionist, anti-Israel manifesto of course
00:15:18.760 and a lot of people were holding that up saying
00:15:20.460 look, the new good manifesto
00:15:23.240 we've had a few of these
00:15:25.100 but then some group chat messages leaked
00:15:29.680 from the very individual who wrote the manifesto
00:15:32.400 and he was saying all kinds of anti-white stuff
00:15:34.920 I think the quote that I'm thinking of
00:15:37.300 was him saying that to fix America
00:15:39.780 all white people need to be replaced and he used the word white genocide and he was saying that
00:15:45.000 he advocated for that so i said was okay look in gun to my head do i have to pick a side israel
00:15:51.860 palestine i pick palestine but these people every time i scratch beneath the surface it sounds like
00:15:59.000 they hate me so i'm not gonna say they're my brothers i'm not gonna say i actually give a 0.90
00:16:04.940 shit about them if i support them it's because i don't like israel now if i see dead children 0.78
00:16:10.960 that strikes a chord within me um it's it's tragic yes the very evocative imagery of store owners 0.98
00:16:19.980 roofs collapsing on their heads you see the decimation visit on the gaza strip yes yes yes
00:16:25.840 but let me be clear i don't like these people and i know i just i know yeah yeah that every
00:16:34.080 if we were to bring all of them over here they would do exactly what these 1.00
00:16:39.540 other brown Muslims are doing which is raping our daughters and laughing at 1.00
00:16:45.180 the and causing massacres massacring our culture massacring us and remember 0.99
00:16:51.060 let's just keep this in mind this is a very simple way of looking at it why do
00:16:55.380 you hate the Jews or why are you aligned against Jewish interests in the West 0.99
00:17:00.900 it's because one of the things jews do is flood your country with people like the palestinians 0.99
00:17:07.540 right so why would i side with the bioweapon that is being used against me by my real enemy 0.99
00:17:16.360 i'm not going to side with the bioweapon that's an odd thing to do there's no reason to believe 0.50
00:17:21.620 that they even like you i'm trying to be fucking realistic here i don't think they want us as
00:17:27.860 friends, and we've been over this before, so 0.67
00:17:29.700 everyone knows where we're going with this, but I'm just
00:17:31.760 like, this conversation was still happening,
00:17:33.800 where it's like, oh, why? Don't denounce
00:17:35.880 them. Don't denounce these. I'm not
00:17:37.720 denouncing anything. Hey, I'm
00:17:39.760 not denouncing. Let them take the
00:17:41.700 heat. Let them
00:17:43.660 rise up against Zionism 0.94
00:17:45.780 and they can be the ones that end up in jail. 0.89
00:17:47.880 Oh, they're not? Interesting.
00:17:50.380 Interesting that they don't get in trouble.
00:17:51.860 Fine, have fun with that.
00:17:53.940 See how that, let their own system
00:17:56.080 consume them great but make no mistake i'm not going to side with the fucking bioweapon 0.99
00:18:01.800 that every chance it gets reminds me that it actually hates me yeah it hates jews but it 0.96
00:18:08.380 also hates me and so i'm not going to call you my brother absolutely i'm exactly the same the only
00:18:14.280 reason i like to draw attention to it is you're talking about the reason that we don't like the 0.95
00:18:18.000 jews and it i mean i don't like watching them like you said i don't like watching them you know 0.98
00:18:24.660 blow up shops and hospitals and shopping malls and kill children and it's not because i feel 1.00
00:18:30.620 particularly sorry for those people because they're palestinians but because they'll do it to 1.00
00:18:34.440 you too they'll do it to all of us so this is just showing we have a system right now where the jews 0.99
00:18:39.760 because remember the jews hate the palestinians but they hate us more the only reason they're 0.98
00:18:44.180 not doing it to your kids is because you're not close to them but their borders are expanding so 0.54
00:18:48.680 you don't need to love the palestinians palestinians or ally with them but you need to 0.95
00:18:54.200 recognize that in this conflict we don't want the juice to get any more ground i i don't don't even
00:19:01.440 accept the enemy of my enemy is my friend absolutely no they're both our enemy i say 0.96
00:19:06.180 the enemy my enemy is uh apathy the palestinians are our enemy they're like hamas is our enemy 1.00
00:19:13.100 they hate us but the thing is they're weak retarded goat fuckers and they actually are not 1.00
00:19:18.680 a threat to canadians at all literally at all they're not here they're there they you would 1.00
00:19:25.040 never even hear about them if it wasn't for fucking israel you know who understood this policy 0.96
00:19:30.060 was joseph stalin as we covered in the last book he was a guy who never the jews jew he never once 0.90
00:19:37.440 believed the enemy of my enemy is my friend what he said was the enemy my enemy those guys are
00:19:44.580 enemies those two should fight and i should hang back and and just take over once they defeat each
00:19:50.620 other yeah he learned from the best the best thing stalin did was never befriend any of these people
00:19:56.040 he just had enemies oh no he befriended them he just never backed them up and lied about everything
00:20:01.300 at every opportunity yeah and just use them and abuse them and let them die and let them suffer 0.95
00:20:06.120 and said cool like i'm saying he learned from the best he's completely surrounded by jews and then 0.89
00:20:10.340 he comes out of the gate doing that shit so just let's be stalinists going forward insofar as we 0.85
00:20:17.320 say hey the enemy my enemy is two enemies two enemies and you have at it they should fight 0.78
00:20:23.020 and i'm gonna go get a drink i the enemy enemy is my tenant i'm the landlord
00:20:28.160 i'm i'm seek to be the landlord the i'm the landlord conflict and the tax collector and
00:20:38.080 the insurance company and these are two tenants in a in a bucky's parking lot fighting i'm on the
00:20:46.480 side of the conflict itself i am i'm on the side of war the tellurian demiurge oil i'm i'm war i'm
00:20:55.460 just i'm like a war guy love it i'm a stalinist now i didn't even know i like seeing people
00:21:00.440 fighting can we get the irish involved this is now a tanky show i'm gonna be honest with you i
00:21:06.260 don't know what a tanky is yeah same something to do with stalin i know what a turf is i know
00:21:12.040 what a trotskyite is i think a tanky when i think a tanky i see it used against like communists
00:21:18.240 that other communists don't like i think i don't see i thought it was i thought it was just fascist
00:21:22.660 communists are not fat like what what a left-winger would say fascist as in their authoritarian they
00:21:28.120 love genocide they love murdering everybody that's a that's a tank yeah that's probably not true
00:21:32.600 all you guys love murdering people like every single day i'll see it's just you like murdering
00:21:38.200 different types of people different groups they're they're less refined like oh he wants to murder
00:21:44.160 the cops instead of murdering the technocrats you know what i mean like what is this you got
00:21:49.800 different names for these types of people yeah i call y'all the same thing i call you hippies 0.80
00:21:55.020 bunch of fucking hippies dude a bunch of pinko hippies nice one thing that i should have started 0.81
00:22:02.260 on um it's not good to talk about this following up all of just the all the stuff about leaving
00:22:10.100 sram hard r's and the gingers but i wanted to call attention to something that happened recently
00:22:16.600 and I think enough time has passed.
00:22:20.280 What I'm discussing is the passing of
00:22:23.540 what I would describe as a friend of mine, Greg Arcade.
00:22:28.880 People may remember Greg Arcade from an interview
00:22:31.700 that we did on the show a couple years ago.
00:22:36.660 A lot of people love that interview
00:22:38.220 and many of our listeners are fans of his music.
00:22:42.620 I'd like to say that I was a friend of his
00:22:45.280 Because we were talking in DMs for many, many, many months.
00:22:49.980 And not long ago, I think maybe, Christ, a few months ago,
00:22:54.120 he had announced that he had brain cancer.
00:22:57.640 And it was pretty far along.
00:23:00.320 And he was announcing a fundraiser for his family.
00:23:03.580 He's a father.
00:23:05.280 And he was just trying to raise money.
00:23:06.720 And as far as I know, there were some fundraisers that boosted that,
00:23:11.040 held by Greg Wycliffe, Jason Levine was involved, a lot of people.
00:23:14.360 and they got they broke through the ceiling of the goal of that fundraiser but you know we were
00:23:21.800 trying to call attention to that as well but we had made a post very soon after we had learned
00:23:27.760 and then the family had requested that we take it down uh well because a lot of the extended family
00:23:35.180 hadn't heard of it and people are talking about that happens from time to time so we took it down
00:23:39.180 This was last week, I believe, and so I'm saying this now because I think enough time has passed.
00:23:44.700 I've noticed other people writing things as well, so I'm not trying to upset the family is what I'm saying,
00:23:51.160 but I do want to speak on it just briefly.
00:23:55.080 Did you know much about Gregor Cade?
00:23:57.480 Yeah, I had listened to the interview, but I'd never spoken to him.
00:24:00.140 He seemed like a great guy.
00:24:01.520 Yeah, he was a great guy, I mean, right up until fairly recently, you know,
00:24:06.100 And then we stopped talking for a while, as you do.
00:24:10.460 And then after I'd learned, I'd sent him an email sharing my thoughts.
00:24:15.980 And I never got to speak to him directly after that.
00:24:19.000 I hope that he saw it.
00:24:20.080 However, you could understand that he had more pressing concerns than responding to emails.
00:24:26.220 However, I just hope that he got all the best wishes from people.
00:24:29.380 I don't know.
00:24:29.640 It just got me thinking.
00:24:30.580 It got me thinking.
00:24:31.220 He was very young, of course.
00:24:33.520 Too young.
00:24:34.220 I think we're all too young to be used to something like this maybe if we're 60 or 70 we could all
00:24:41.320 be very cavalier about it like my grandmother she did I tell you this she had a friend who's doing
00:24:50.360 the maid the medical assistant oh yeah you mentioned that I don't know if I mentioned it on
00:24:55.000 the show um I think I did but it just happened the other week and so she's in her 80s and she
00:25:02.860 lives in a apartment building she's a widow and she's befriended many widows and she's at an age
00:25:08.480 where this happens all the time but she has said that um it's scheduled of course everyone was
00:25:13.840 aware of this woman had inoperable cancer and so she's like it's happening on monday and i'm like
00:25:20.820 oh my god what are you gonna do what what do you do i don't know what you're supposed to do what's
00:25:25.900 the protocol she said oh you know we're gonna all of her friends are here family's here and
00:25:30.460 we're gonna have a luncheon and we're gonna have some sandwiches and what the it just sounds like
00:25:37.980 it should be more because i know the type of sandwiches like finger like chicken salad
00:25:42.060 sandwiches cut up into triangles and i'm like i because the last meal on death row you would get
00:25:49.420 fuck did i say this entire thing before i might i don't remember i was just saying that a last 0.65
00:25:55.960 meal on death row would have 0.68
00:25:57.880 more thought put into it
00:25:59.380 like a man 0.71
00:26:01.380 because it takes a lot of rape
00:26:03.940 to get up to death row for rape
00:26:06.120 so a man that has done a death row
00:26:08.180 amount of raping
00:26:09.920 in his life
00:26:10.520 still gets the rare
00:26:14.040 ribeye and he still gets
00:26:15.940 like two scoops of mint chip
00:26:17.960 and a bucket of chicken
00:26:19.780 look what John Wayne Gacy got
00:26:21.300 look what all these motherfuckers are getting
00:26:23.240 so I'm like 0.78
00:26:24.840 i mean i mean grandma you got it and i know you're a boomer you know what i i think because
00:26:30.760 it's weird it sounds like you cater it like a funeral but when you cater a funeral the food
00:26:38.040 isn't for the person it's for the family so like you're not trying to go all out for the family
00:26:43.400 people are mourning you don't want to be gauche about it but if it's a celebration of life at a 0.91
00:26:49.020 maid party you would think they'd have like a fucking a party like a proper party like it's 0.91
00:26:55.900 a send-off you'd have the good shit right wouldn't you well because i hate to say i know you're gonna 0.97
00:27:02.940 disagree with this because you don't like any of this degenerate flim flam but now would be the 0.86
00:27:09.680 time for the crack pipe what like why can't you do more last things like why can't you like
00:27:18.840 You've never said a slur your entire life.
00:27:22.120 It's just the N-word party?
00:27:23.920 We brought in a black woman. 1.00
00:27:26.320 We paid her.
00:27:27.460 We paid her enough so you can do whatever you want.
00:27:29.760 She's expecting that we're going to do things that we're not going to do.
00:27:32.680 She's going to be happy that it's just the same as well.
00:27:37.680 She came in crying, and she's going to leave laughing.
00:27:41.520 Believe me.
00:27:44.440 She'd still be crying if she eats those fucking sandwiches, though.
00:27:47.540 Yeah. 0.99
00:27:47.820 white people don't season
00:27:49.880 the suicide
00:27:51.040 triangles.
00:27:52.920 I don't fly helicopters. I don't trust the
00:27:55.720 propellers. I don't trust the way they spin.
00:27:57.760 Too reliant on the wind. Too many climate
00:27:59.720 change variables.
00:28:01.400 But like everything you could do and anything
00:28:03.560 you should, you want to do, do you ever invest
00:28:05.680 in crypto? I'll help you buy your
00:28:07.280 buy some Bitcoin right at the end.
00:28:09.840 Suicide crypto. Can you imagine
00:28:11.640 getting a boomer right before
00:28:13.760 they die to buy at the peak? 0.90
00:28:15.900 buy at the top of the fucking 0.93
00:28:18.100 and then you can say the reason she 0.92
00:28:20.060 killed herself is because she bought at the
00:28:22.120 top. You had your big aboober
00:28:23.560 and your nephew is there and you can
00:28:26.060 see on the laptop
00:28:27.580 that you bought the peak and as
00:28:30.000 your eyes are closing you just see the lines
00:28:32.160 start going down.
00:28:34.840 Damn son, where'd you
00:28:36.340 find the...
00:28:36.700 I can't wait to die watching
00:28:39.960 Crypto Crater.
00:28:42.200 The odds are good.
00:28:44.220 the odds are good at whatever you die
00:28:46.580 whatever you're in the future, whatever the season is
00:28:48.820 the line's going to be going down
00:28:50.800 a censor to none
00:28:52.940 was saying that we should have
00:28:54.560 like a 5am
00:28:55.700 morning zoo radio show
00:28:58.180 get people up in the morning
00:28:59.660 I was just recording demos
00:29:02.540 of it in the group chat 1.00
00:29:04.040 hey good Hitler 0.87
00:29:06.480 morning to all the schizos 1.00
00:29:08.440 and malists 1.00
00:29:10.880 that's great we should set up a little station and broadcast that actually just pirate radio 0.99
00:29:19.200 but it's the simultaneously the gayest and most racist shit ever more so than this and then hey 0.74
00:29:26.300 dude would be great let's do a whole other show let's we have time for that we're not busy let's 0.88
00:29:32.380 carve out more of our fucking day so i apologize mr arcade this is one of the worst eulogies i'm 0.86
00:29:40.120 sure you've ever heard. We're already two tangents in. But yeah, anyway, I would recommend people 0.94
00:29:46.520 find that GoFundMe. Go purchase his music. I know one of the last things he did before he really
00:29:53.640 went radio silent was he was taking his website down. He was giving him music. I talked to him
00:29:58.460 about this directly. I still got those DMs, and he was talking about, like, he's just getting away
00:30:03.460 from everything. I was trying to talk him off the ledge on that. I'm like, well, I mean, look,
00:30:07.440 you have all these albums and people seem to like it it really gets you thinking about mortality
00:30:12.900 yeah for sure i wonder if i'm gonna get cancer probably i think we're all gonna die of cancer
00:30:19.200 that's like the thing now right it does seem inevitable doesn't it it's pretty because my
00:30:23.940 grandmother's friend that was it's the stomach cancer is what yeah i mean look at the numbers
00:30:28.180 not even just covid covid obviously has caused a huge amount not covid i mean the vaccine has
00:30:32.520 caused a huge amount of cancer but then there's everything else is the fucking microplastics and
00:30:36.720 the you know the the hormones and the water and the works you know we're all we're all gonna die
00:30:41.580 of cancer yeah i think that's the same thing that's causing uh i mean lack not only lack of
00:30:47.640 fertility fertility rates declining but also the rise of miscarriages yeah you know one in four
00:30:55.040 pregnancies is a miscarriage 25 that sounds right from what i've heard um that that sounds high but
00:31:04.120 That's also normal, but it's also something no one talks about.
00:31:06.800 Yeah, but is it historical or is it recent?
00:31:09.700 That's a good question.
00:31:10.820 Yeah.
00:31:12.200 I've got no data on that.
00:31:14.660 I've tried to look it up.
00:31:16.000 I'm like, I don't think that they have it going back to the 1700s
00:31:18.840 because that's what you'd want to know.
00:31:20.120 Yeah, exactly.
00:31:20.640 The child mortality was obviously different.
00:31:22.420 It was huge, huge.
00:31:24.480 But, yeah, I don't know.
00:31:26.520 Because here's the thing.
00:31:28.080 If the miscarriage is early along,
00:31:31.400 I don't even think people know it was a miscarriage.
00:31:33.880 and that's what happens to some women too you know what bothers me about miscarriages
00:31:37.360 is that when somebody comes to you and says i lost the baby if you say have you tried
00:31:45.980 retracing your steps you're the bad guy you're the bad guy it's the last place that you looked
00:31:52.240 yeah it's and then you're just laughing like i can't wait to say this to someone else to anybody
00:32:00.680 else i'm allowed to say it because my my wife has had a miscarriage and i think everybody
00:32:07.280 every if you've tried if you've got more than two kids you've probably had a miscarriage
00:32:11.080 that's statistically so and i guess you know i i was debating whether or not to bring this up
00:32:18.500 but uh enough people have started to hear about it that she went and got herself pregnant again
00:32:25.280 get a wife juice yeah buddy what happened i don't even like what do you even do
00:32:37.240 you flip a coin how do you what happened what what how but the story was that
00:32:46.740 you know there was you can say but we don't need to hear that which oh like how it happened
00:32:52.280 You're going to tell us the whole story here?
00:32:54.000 No, no, no, no.
00:32:55.140 No, I'm going to save that for the kids.
00:32:59.400 The father being too much describing how children are made,
00:33:05.140 but also saying that they never could.
00:33:07.380 It's only something you could do.
00:33:10.480 Don't ever try this.
00:33:11.700 It's a special trick I learned from a wizard.
00:33:13.920 So where do babies come from?
00:33:15.840 I'm like, I can tell you how I do, but it's not going to work for you.
00:33:18.840 i don't know what you guys are gonna have to do you have to figure out your own way
00:33:24.520 don't do this way this this way is not i don't even think it's illegal anymore
00:33:28.160 that's awesome but what had happened to us and the reason i'm saying this is because
00:33:36.240 my wife has just ended the first trimester uh so we're more or less in the clear and maybe i'm
00:33:45.640 kind of my chickens before they hatch a bit too much but uh there were two previous losses there's
00:33:53.940 two miscarriages before this and uh usually once it happens to you or once you go through this and
00:34:02.060 really it's her going through it but as a family you really go through it together especially if
00:34:07.280 you're very close to your relatives um if her mother are close by because people can tell very
00:34:12.420 early even if you don't announce it to them if you're just in their proximity um and you've even
00:34:17.940 if you're a few weeks along they can tell something's different about you it's not just
00:34:22.720 that you're not drinking wine anymore it's just there's a different there's a different aura that
00:34:26.440 women can detect so it's very hard to keep it a secret what it happened once this happens to you
00:34:33.560 or once you undergo this you start learning all these facts and one fact is that one in four
00:34:39.060 pregnancies and the miscarriage and so if you're one of these families that has four or five kids
00:34:44.980 odds are pretty good that there's two or three miscarriages in there and it's just a thing that
00:34:49.440 nobody talks about um and once maybe when people figure out then they start talking but
00:34:54.720 what i what i've noticed about women from paying attention to how they interact with each other 0.92
00:34:59.960 over the years especially with this it's that they all lie to each other about what they're
00:35:04.940 going through and for a variety of reasons maybe they don't want to seem broken or something but
00:35:10.800 uh like they'll just lie and pretend it no woman's ever had a miscarriage if guys had miscarriages
00:35:17.840 we'd be pretty open about it we'd just be it'd be what we would fucking talk about but it'd be like
00:35:22.780 my sciatica ah my sciatica the moment you have a single sore bone it's over that's all you talk
00:35:30.220 about yeah yeah but also for most women i learned the miscarriage often happens with the first 0.97
00:35:37.780 pregnancy and so that's like that's even more normal however if you're getting in the woman's 0.99
00:35:43.860 mind thinking like a woman even if you're and this happens when you're young too it's not just 0.96
00:35:48.880 an older thing uh you can imagine if it was your first you start thinking oh can i never have kids
00:35:54.980 this isn't normal this can't be normal
00:35:57.380 right so we were in a
00:35:59.480 different position where we had already had
00:36:01.640 nickels and everything was good
00:36:03.400 everything was healthy and then these
00:36:05.460 start happening sort of like okay
00:36:06.780 we had one
00:36:09.160 everything's fine so what is this
00:36:11.620 and it's not like we waited
00:36:13.240 10 years between them
00:36:15.260 you know what I mean so it's not like he kind of aged out of it
00:36:17.680 which is another type of concern
00:36:19.480 so we're like
00:36:20.760 no doctor really has an
00:36:23.540 answer to that
00:36:24.600 and they won't even they won't mention vaccine stuff they won't mention even if they know or
00:36:33.500 suspect they can just say it's bad luck but you don't know right and it could very well be the
00:36:38.900 case but uh it turns out if you have two or more miscarriages at least in canada they refer you to
00:36:44.480 a special clinic a pregnancy loss clinic but then we were referred there and then we got pregnant
00:36:52.100 I know what's saying
00:36:53.860 we got pregnant 0.98
00:36:54.680 she got pregnant
00:36:55.480 you helped
00:36:56.320 don't you know
00:36:57.320 give yourself credit
00:36:58.100 I didn't do nothing
00:36:59.280 yeah
00:36:59.940 I like to think of it
00:37:02.260 that
00:37:02.600 I'm the star
00:37:04.060 not the director
00:37:04.780 oh yeah
00:37:07.100 there you go
00:37:13.340 that's the spirit
00:37:14.760 like she's
00:37:15.860 she's a more important one
00:37:16.540 but
00:37:16.880 people are showing up for me
00:37:18.560 let's be honest
00:37:19.240 like I did
00:37:19.740 I did the ghouls
00:37:20.440 yeah
00:37:21.400 But yeah, I spoke to my wife about this too.
00:37:27.160 I'm not telling any tales out of school,
00:37:28.700 especially when the miscarriages were happening
00:37:32.840 because they happened fairly recently after each other.
00:37:36.460 So not long after Nichols was born, she was pregnant again.
00:37:39.860 Then what had happened was, 0.52
00:37:42.240 and this is why the waiting was important
00:37:45.140 because she would go the first ultrasound.
00:37:48.600 And a lot of older people are astounded by this.
00:37:51.400 because back in the day, you just had one ultrasound.
00:37:55.340 Now you have two or three.
00:37:57.380 You could have even more if it's a really risky pregnancy,
00:38:00.180 but you have at least two, and a whole bunch of tests.
00:38:03.980 And they test very early if it's going to have Down syndrome
00:38:08.700 or any of these really rare diseases or anything.
00:38:11.740 And we've actually already had the second ultrasound,
00:38:15.280 and they said, that doesn't look like a Down syndrome, baby.
00:38:18.760 So that's why I'm excited.
00:38:20.340 because apparently very very early on now you can tell and has something to do with the size of the
00:38:26.320 neck and that sounds offensive but it's not that sounds like they look at me it's like that's what 0.64
00:38:31.840 that's got a fucked up that's got a downsy neck you know what i mean and we all know what they 0.99
00:38:35.740 mean when you got a down syndrome neck yeah yeah that nigga howls hitler yeah that nigga howls 0.99
00:38:40.740 hitler yeah that's a king but uh they can tell that like in within the first trimester they can 0.99
00:38:48.080 like eyeball that like not he or she is good so that's that's why i'm saying it now because
00:38:53.220 rather first trimester and then usually at that first ultrasound they would say oh we don't detect
00:38:58.920 a heartbeat but the crazy thing is like there's something wrong something happened however your
00:39:05.460 body still thinks it's pregnant so you can either you can do one or two things you could like wait
00:39:11.040 for the miscarriage to happen or you can basically trigger a miscarriage with like a pill which is
00:39:15.920 actually cleaner because they said well here's the problem if you wait and it doesn't happen
00:39:21.060 then you you got to go up and do an actual abortion like they got to go in there and take
00:39:27.440 it out yeah which is incredibly invasive and all the risks associated with that and it's one or the
00:39:32.900 other so it's that's a position you can imagine for many of the female listeners who very take
00:39:40.840 this very seriously they believe life begins at conception and they believe
00:39:45.200 that that fetus is a person and they're suffering you know they're they're
00:39:51.140 bereaved as my wife was as many of them were but then now there's this shit now
00:39:57.300 there's this procedure there's this new thing you have to do that's an incredible
00:40:03.160 way to bear and then there's the recovery because this ain't easy right so
00:40:07.240 So, guys, what I had found was that I couldn't really talk to anyone about this.
00:40:14.400 And I guess the reason I'm bringing this up, because I had spoken to my wife about this,
00:40:18.500 and I said, you know, is this something you would be comfortable talking about?
00:40:22.160 I did that recently because it never occurred to me to talk about it before.
00:40:26.180 I didn't want to talk about it before.
00:40:27.300 I didn't want to be too careless with her role in all this, right?
00:40:35.200 Like, I'm just trotting this out.
00:40:36.800 And she had said that, you know, she's okay with it because we've had some people in our community, some of our listeners, many of whom are parents themselves, and many of them would like to be parents.
00:40:48.540 They speak to us and they want to know what it's like.
00:40:52.640 And this was one dimension I thought was always lacking.
00:40:55.700 I went through this and as I was going through it, I realized I've never heard of any of this before.
00:41:00.340 you know i mean this this apparently normal thing no one ever discusses especially amongst women
00:41:07.960 you know i mean and then you're just kind of left to drift even as your parents or your family act
00:41:13.920 like it's this taboo thing to even talk about i was wondering did you did you experience the same
00:41:20.560 thing it wasn't it wasn't that bad for us we had a lot of family around who were uh
00:41:26.940 pretty pretty open to talk about it and uh my wife actually spent a bit of time she went
00:41:34.240 went and stayed with her her aunt and her family there for a bit just to be in some you know be in
00:41:42.340 a different place and be around some people who were older and this aunt in particular had a bunch
00:41:47.940 of her own kids who were all young and they all hanging out so yeah it was it wasn't it was bad
00:41:53.600 like it it fucking sucks man it's not it's not nice it's a death essentially it's it's like 0.93
00:41:59.040 it's a death in the family it's like a an edge case of a death in the family 0.93
00:42:04.320 absolutely and i think that's how i think the women the mothers really view it and if you're
00:42:10.320 close to that you understand you can see what they're going through um but yeah so that that's
00:42:16.080 just i don't know i don't know where i was going with that i just like to talk about because it's
00:42:20.160 it's a part of our reality and we're well we're past the first trimester we had the two successful
00:42:25.520 ultrasounds so barring any unforeseen thing maybe i'm gonna have to eat my hat in a few weeks but
00:42:32.320 you know she's very very excited yeah i'm very excited we're gonna find out what the
00:42:37.200 gender is soon um nice i'd be good either way liar why would now interesting 0.58
00:42:46.960 fucking sun machine over here well i've had one i i would like a girl i think that'd be nice oh yeah 0.91
00:42:53.000 i if if i i'm gonna say i don't care it might be nice if it was two boys that could be really fun 0.66
00:42:59.500 because he would have a brother within this similar age range like me and my sister are
00:43:04.620 five years apart that's an odd amount of time for siblings to be separate yeah it's very difficult
00:43:10.680 to connect like that but if you're just like one or two years apart now you're dynamic duo
00:43:15.940 you're the gruesome twosome so having two boys that could my kids actually are they're a year
00:43:21.420 and a half apart and they just in the past nine months or so became besties like they do everything
00:43:27.240 together they like they they steal food for each other and they get books for each other they sleep
00:43:33.380 in the same bed like i'll put them to bed and i'll go up and they'll be like goofing around and
00:43:36.860 sleeping in the same bed i'm like okay so they're they're like the best of friends i don't know if
00:43:41.140 this will last because i know a lot of people you know end up hating their siblings when they're
00:43:46.040 older but it's it's cute so yeah that'd be cool i wonder how common that is you know i mean because
00:43:50.720 there certainly are people who end up resenting their siblings but is is that the norm do you
00:43:57.840 think because like everyone remembers when they're kids like i mean my my sisters my brothers are
00:44:02.600 best friends and but does it always happen that they'd be yeah i don't know i don't know i don't
00:44:07.820 have a lot of people who have close i don't have a lot of friends who have close siblings well
00:44:13.540 because i'm not very close to my sister i know you're not very close with your brother i'm trying
00:44:17.300 to think of a single person i know that's close with their siblings i can't think i can't think
00:44:22.060 of one i can't think of a single one and i'm sure oh you know what that's my uh my stepbrothers
00:44:27.480 are i have three stepbrothers and they're all really close they're they're best buds they play
00:44:31.920 baseball together in the whole thing so i know if you were to ask them they'd say oh we love each
00:44:35.680 we love our brothers we love our sisters like i get that and some maybe that's just
00:44:39.540 the fine print on your existence like you got to say that but like i don't know when you see that
00:44:46.640 at such a young age you're hoping that stays that way yeah yeah absolutely it would also be nice if
00:44:52.680 she had a girl that she could buy nice dresses for you know i mean just to agree so she doesn't 0.91
00:44:58.660 get so deep into boy mode that she's trans i don't need a trans woman i'm on the other end of it 0.97
00:45:05.540 I had to learn to like do yarn and I leave for work with fucking the beads and and butterfly 1.00
00:45:12.280 stickers on the back of my jacket that I don't know are there so let me ask you this two daughters 0.97
00:45:18.240 you're outnumbered I'm in a I'm in a house of women we have nine hens and a female cat and 0.97
00:45:26.200 two daughters and my wife it's yeah it's like I got a whole hen house and the chickens in back 0.99
00:45:31.760 too by the way and i don't mind telling you but let me ask you this do you go all in with the tea
00:45:40.780 parties and do you do or is this too early for that or like the the the makeup on you uh i draw
00:45:48.700 the line there's a lot of stuff that i would do that too i want to know actually this is important
00:45:53.400 there's a lot of stuff where i i i'm pretty clear with them there's boy stuff and there's girl stuff
00:45:58.300 like things are gendered like when you're going to do some of this stuff i'll play along because
00:46:02.280 i love you and i love playing with you but there's certain things that boys don't do there's such a
00:46:06.960 thing as a boy thing and a girl thing and i think i wonder how intentionally subversive
00:46:12.500 it was although i think either way it's even if it's unintentional it's subversive this whole
00:46:17.580 concept of like oh dads of daughters they get to do the lipstick in the tea party and the dress up
00:46:23.080 No, that's that's called being gay and refusing to provide a positive male role model for your daughter. 0.96
00:46:31.400 Your daughter is going to be a fucking whore if you do that. 0.95
00:46:34.800 So, you know, I'm just a cinephile. 0.72
00:46:38.400 So sometimes I just can only make metaphors through cinema.
00:46:43.380 But then I always think, like, John Wayne do that.
00:46:47.040 If he had a daughter, would he do that?
00:46:48.500 I bet he wouldn't.
00:46:49.420 Would Clint Eastwood?
00:46:50.220 I bet he wouldn't.
00:46:51.340 Mel Gibson.
00:46:51.900 biml gibson wouldn't do that you know i mean so i'm like why would why do i got to get my 0.84
00:46:56.860 fucking nails painted and put lipstick on and glitter on my face because i feel as if i don't 0.91
00:47:01.560 want to do that i feel that that's dumb they have their friends and their mom and their sister to do 0.88
00:47:07.460 that with they're don't gonna do you have all kinds of things to provide without doing that
00:47:11.280 but you gotta do it real men do that no do you hear that wrong here's what real men do first of
00:47:18.140 they work up their traps like crazy
00:47:20.380 you gotta be absolutely jacked 1.00
00:47:22.260 and then you gotta do the gayest shit imaginable 1.00
00:47:24.500 and you gotta shave 0.98
00:47:26.400 your head every single day
00:47:28.000 get a big bushy beard and what do you
00:47:30.240 what real men do 0.98
00:47:31.080 they put the tiara on 0.99
00:47:34.080 and they show up
00:47:35.260 they show up for their daughters
00:47:37.380 sometimes I don't even think the daughters really want
00:47:40.160 maybe they're shit testing the fathers
00:47:41.940 hey dad why don't I paint you up like 1.00
00:47:44.240 a fucking whore and you're like 1.00
00:47:45.540 Of course, I've been waiting my whole life for that. 1.00
00:47:48.940 Have you faggot? 1.00
00:47:49.700 That's what your daughter's saying to you.
00:47:50.840 Your daughter's calling you a fucking faggot. 1.00
00:47:52.680 Hoping you end this madness. 1.00
00:47:56.400 This is how girls learn to shit test. 1.00
00:47:59.400 You know what's worse for women
00:48:01.700 than having like an alcoholic abusive dad?
00:48:05.420 It's having the dad that's too into their dumb shit.
00:48:09.300 It's just a bit too much.
00:48:10.600 And it's like, oh, all men suck. 1.00
00:48:12.860 All men are fucking queer bitches. 1.00
00:48:14.600 Would you look at that? 1.00
00:48:15.540 You send that out into the world.
00:48:17.900 Now she's starting Theranos.
00:48:20.120 Now she's starting like a fraud blood company.
00:48:22.460 That's how you get that.
00:48:23.520 Yeah.
00:48:24.780 Every CEO you ever saw in life has had one of these dads.
00:48:28.980 But really though, like girls, my understanding of it, and I don't think this is just girls, this is everybody, but when you're a child, you learn a lot about behaviors of men and women in relationships, in marriage, and you map that onto people that you meet, onto people that you court when you're older.
00:48:45.540 So when you're young, if you have a brow beaten, effeminate dad who lets you put lipstick on him, what kind of what kind of relationships is your daughter going to have as an adult?
00:48:57.560 If that like you, you've you have fucking burned that into the back of her brain as a toddler.
00:49:03.260 That's bad.
00:49:04.240 That's that's that's a crime.
00:49:06.460 It's a dad that's trying too hard.
00:49:08.380 Say, hey, dad, you want to have makeup tea party?
00:49:11.260 Will that make you love me more?
00:49:12.780 will you love and respect you more
00:49:15.100 if you do that
00:49:15.900 and your own daughter is like
00:49:17.500 yeah
00:49:18.760 I just want you to do it
00:49:21.340 just like going to your daughter
00:49:24.360 with such strong divorced man energy
00:49:27.440 while you're not even divorced
00:49:28.720 will that make
00:49:31.080 will I be your hero then
00:49:32.940 if you say it out loud dad
00:49:35.880 now my hero is the crow 1.00
00:49:39.400 that's why your daughter is fucking dark now 0.99
00:49:42.760 Nice 1.00
00:49:43.720 Now my hero is Street Sharks 1.00
00:49:46.400 Fucking faggot dad 1.00
00:49:48.280 Faggot ass dad 1.00
00:49:50.300 Dad fucking 1.00
00:49:54.560 Come home from work not taking his suit off 0.92
00:49:57.060 Ass 0.99
00:49:57.540 Oh no
00:50:00.140 Fucking dad quoting The Sopranos
00:50:01.960 I haven't even watched The Sopranos
00:50:03.020 I've only seen fucking clips
00:50:04.520 With the wrong subtitles
00:50:06.600 Sopranos clip watching dad
00:50:08.620 Old generation of guys that have just seen The Sopranos
00:50:11.780 the vertical videos
00:50:12.860 and like Chinese translations.
00:50:16.120 Bang.
00:50:16.900 It's so fucking cool
00:50:17.740 that technologically
00:50:19.460 we worked our way back
00:50:20.600 to the really bad bootleg videos.
00:50:23.900 Like if you see these clips,
00:50:25.060 it's like a clip
00:50:25.600 of an old HBO show
00:50:27.260 and there's bad subtitles
00:50:28.660 that just don't work.
00:50:30.380 But you're like,
00:50:30.840 yeah, this is the peak.
00:50:32.820 This is all I can consume now.
00:50:34.340 I can't even consume long form shit.
00:50:37.580 Which is to end the note,
00:50:39.980 to wrap it all up,
00:50:41.420 there's so much going on once you actually start having kids that uh is more normal than you think
00:50:48.300 but is it a new normal to your point statistically if you have five kids there's probably like two or
00:50:54.760 three miscarriages in there but was that the case in the 70s i don't really know um that would be
00:51:01.620 interesting to learn and also i guess the other thing is that we're gonna be having two kids
00:51:07.980 right that's something you've been dealing with forever i think i think anyone can have one kid
00:51:13.300 it's actually not that there's a learning curve you're doing that thing where where competent
00:51:18.700 people projected onto others i think probably half of the population is not competent enough
00:51:25.600 to actually have one kid i was more going to say that that is true i was saying that you know if
00:51:32.100 you're the type of person who can figure it out having one kid despite the learning curve especially
00:51:36.660 the first year you can figure it out having two kids shatters that completely whatever strategy
00:51:43.560 you had has to be completed and then three or more i think it's just over like you know what
00:51:48.680 be really i disagree i disagree i remember that feeling my kids are a year and a half apart and
00:51:56.580 i remember when my second daughter was born my first daughter's year and a half which is still
00:52:00.960 kind of a nightmare shitting everywhere and whatever and now you have an infant and then
00:52:05.100 there's nights where the infant will cry for hours and hours and hours and you want to throw 0.64
00:52:09.440 yourself out a window and then at the same time as soon as the infant goes down now the toddler
00:52:13.520 is up because of the crying but that doesn't last very long and even within a like right out of the
00:52:20.660 gate you already have all the tools with kid two that you learned from kid one um and i was mainly
00:52:27.180 concerned about the sleeping that was like no but like even with the sleeping like do you not i mean
00:52:32.300 for us we developed patterns of like i think we developed patterns of sleep and patterns of for
00:52:38.660 example part of the sleeping thing is like you can't get the sleep because of the kid but if
00:52:42.260 you deal with the kid correctly you can get more sleep but the other end of it is you just adjust
00:52:46.540 like i just and maybe it's age but i sleep way less now than i used to and i'm fine with it it
00:52:52.040 doesn't bother me and i'm capable of sleeping in like in like like like buckshot sleep where
00:52:58.280 you sleep for an hour and up for 30 minutes and sleep for two hours and up for an hour
00:53:01.860 like that it's not good for you that is why but i can do that and it doesn't like i can actually
00:53:08.680 just like wake up and just stand up out of my bed and go and do a thing and then go back to sleep
00:53:13.540 and then almost immediately just fall asleep and i could not do that when i was when i was 25 i
00:53:18.700 couldn't do that so but i don't know if that's well you can't do it so maybe it's a two kids thing
00:53:23.240 this is like a lot my thing is i just i go to bed late and wake up early but i do need that block
00:53:28.900 even if it's like now i'm not saying i'm hours i'm not saying i feel rested in the morning
00:53:33.600 i'm just saying it doesn't eat me inside my my thinking was that okay with just one kid you
00:53:40.640 outnumber them and i told people that of course there's there's a few learning curves yet like
00:53:46.000 the first three weeks of the first kid is bananas yeah it's been the first six months is but then
00:53:52.980 you kind of adjust you get you get the rhythm you start figuring things out you get a lot more
00:53:57.360 relax and i'm like you know what a lot of people think that when they have a child that their
00:54:02.940 entire life needs to change and it does right but you'd be surprised at how much of your life you can
00:54:07.660 maintain if you just budget your time properly because we did a lot of stuff with nickels that
00:54:12.920 sounds pretty fucking crazy we took him on three trips like three airplanes we went to fucking new 0.89
00:54:18.080 york austin and paris with him you can figure it out and i know you went across the world with your 0.84
00:54:23.960 like there's stuff you can figure if you really just if you study and research and plan you can
00:54:30.260 do so much of your life but with two i'm thinking just schedules get complicated now you're evenly
00:54:37.680 matched now there's just another thing where you could pass the kid back and forth between each
00:54:42.640 other now you can't now and anyway that's just the way i was looking at but again it's not even
00:54:47.540 here yet i mean you and you but you also you can like when they're small enough it's just you have
00:54:52.860 two car seats two stroll or you have a like a two-seat stroller or whatever it's not that big
00:54:57.440 and then when you get to the point where they're larger like right now they monitor each other like
00:55:01.820 i'll go outside and work in the garden and the big one will watch the little one and i'm even
00:55:06.300 they're not even that old but i'm to a point where like i can kind of like if if if one of them goes
00:55:11.960 out of sight i can ask the other one to go find her and bring her back here there's going to be
00:55:15.480 trouble and they do and they do it works i'm like cool if i only had one i would have to go look for
00:55:22.160 her but i i don't have to here's thinking about your daughters that's cool uh is that they have
00:55:27.120 something that's if not 100 then like maybe 75 to boy energy um because your your your daughters
00:55:35.880 are very energetic and um they're delightful people but i noticed that they can be pretty
00:55:41.480 like destructive as well as opposed to some other young girls that you see at the park which are
00:55:46.640 very reserved and yeah my kids are my kids are wild for girls yeah but i'm also thinking that
00:55:51.820 you know nichols is 110 boy in a jam like if if there's another one of him
00:55:58.060 they they it's true that they will watch each other but they will watch each other burn our
00:56:03.780 house down they will strategize in a really deranged way as anyone who's had like young
00:56:11.020 boys would probably say i'm like i i if i leave you in the yard i'm going to come back and i'm
00:56:15.700 going to have like you're going to ask
00:56:17.500 you're going to go ask Nichols to find
00:56:19.700 his younger brother and then five minutes
00:56:21.620 goes by and then the power goes out
00:56:23.540 yeah no no it's just that
00:56:25.620 moment that every parent dreads if you hear them
00:56:27.700 you would rather hear them screaming than
00:56:29.520 silent because when they're saying like
00:56:31.480 what have they done yeah
00:56:33.280 where something they have
00:56:35.560 something they're not supposed to have this is not
00:56:37.620 something I'll ever experience because my kids are perfect
00:56:39.620 angels we're fine we're
00:56:41.700 angels like you've you've you son 1.00
00:56:43.700 of a bitch what have you done 1.00
00:56:44.920 did you liquidate my crypto holdings what have you done 0.99
00:56:49.240 did you open 20 new llcs in my name
00:56:54.480 your four-year-old is opening llc did you open 1500 businesses in my name again
00:57:02.060 all right this has been a very special episode of blood salad we covered a lot of ground there
00:57:09.900 we've spent an hour just talking about our family we didn't talk any of the news here okay let's
00:57:17.080 rip through something right now not a single thing uh mark carney this is just a follow-up
00:57:22.120 to our election coverage and our predictions for the election for mark carney for the liberal
00:57:27.180 party it turns out we're getting bent over the barrel and raped i'm just going to read a tweeter
00:57:32.820 but this is taken from something.
00:57:36.660 I don't know.
00:57:36.960 I'm looking at a chart here.
00:57:39.360 It actually doesn't say where it's from,
00:57:41.760 but let's just...
00:57:42.320 Is it real?
00:57:42.960 Who knows?
00:57:43.760 Let's report on this as if it were true.
00:57:47.060 Here are the Mark Carney Liberals' plans
00:57:49.360 for mass immigration into Canada.
00:57:51.800 Answered alarm, everyone.
00:57:52.860 This is Kirk Lubomov.
00:57:54.860 Don't know who this is.
00:57:56.620 He's got some emojis in his bio.
00:57:59.860 Don't love that, but moving on.
00:58:01.220 here's what we're talking about
00:58:03.340 temporary residents will be an extra
00:58:05.600 1.7 million people
00:58:07.740 in 3 years and will start growing
00:58:09.760 again in 2027
00:58:11.200 permanent residents will be an extra
00:58:13.740 1.14 million
00:58:15.680 with growth in French speakers
00:58:17.320 mostly, my god 0.99
00:58:19.540 from sub-Sahara 0.97
00:58:20.880 into small communities outside Quebec 0.91
00:58:23.600 refugees will grow by
00:58:25.440 168,000
00:58:26.640 because while we have record homeless Canadians 0.99
00:58:29.200 we still spend billions housing foreigners
00:58:32.060 They are planning to replace over 2% of the Canadian population with foreigners every year until Canada is no longer Canada. 0.99
00:58:39.400 Here are the predictions for 2025, 2026, 2027. 0.95
00:58:43.260 So we had said before that Mark Carney is making gestures to patriotism to old stock Canadians, whatever you want to call them. 0.98
00:58:50.680 But he can just lie. 0.99
00:58:53.440 They can just say, you know, things have gone out of control.
00:58:57.080 Immigration, we made some mistakes.
00:58:59.400 it bothers me like with trump the number of people that immediately pivoted and thought
00:59:03.980 maybe carney's okay just because he was playing those games like he is a master politician of
00:59:10.340 course he's going to say whatever the fuck gives him a mandate prior to an election i don't know
00:59:14.840 why like why do people why do we have to keep reminding you of this so obviously he's just
00:59:19.740 going to continue all of everything trudeau was doing times three and that's what this is yeah
00:59:25.720 If you add up all the numbers in the chart above, it's over 1 million.
00:59:30.260 Around 350,000 is the Canadian births per year.
00:59:34.320 So, you know, the plan previously was to boost the GDP.
00:59:40.280 GDP line go up through mass migration, through tax revenue.
00:59:43.940 We're just trying to add fuel to this fire.
00:59:48.280 And from what I'm seeing, it's completely unchanged.
00:59:51.660 not not even making an attempt to lie or justify it's like oh no we're gonna we're gonna keep
00:59:57.980 doing that this is sustainably suicidal you know what i mean like this is you decide it's like um 0.67
01:00:06.720 nick cage and leaving las vegas he made the decision i'm gonna drink myself to death and i
01:00:13.320 have all the money i need to do that because i don't think i need a year's worth of money maybe
01:00:17.040 And if I really bear down, I can drink myself to death within a few months.
01:00:21.380 And you've said, yeah, you know what?
01:00:23.100 We've parceled this out.
01:00:24.600 I think we can get there. 0.96
01:00:25.620 I think we can get to zero white people in 50 years. 0.99
01:00:30.220 And that's what it is too, right? 0.94
01:00:31.400 Because Paliyev would have done exactly the same thing.
01:00:35.060 Exactly.
01:00:35.660 And this is what we got in trouble for.
01:00:37.520 Because I know some people were saying, oh, Paliyev is better on guns.
01:00:40.340 That very well could be the case.
01:00:41.920 He probably is, yeah.
01:00:43.180 He's probably better.
01:00:43.800 But I don't even trust that, to be honest.
01:00:46.280 like I don't to me being good on guns is standing firm on guns rights and I don't think he's as
01:00:53.620 firm as you need to be in Canada where we don't have something like a second amendment that you
01:00:58.680 can fall back on like you need to be a staunch advocate for gun rights because all it takes is
01:01:05.020 one slip up and then like they're just banning guns for the heck of it like you need to be a gun
01:01:11.080 guy I don't think he's a gun guy I think he's just like oh you people like guns I'm I'm in
01:01:15.980 favor of the things that you like no no no like you need to own 40 guns before i believe that
01:01:22.060 you're a gun guy at this point so i'm not sure he would defend firearms if it came down to it i think
01:01:28.100 he would throw them under the bus for quick political capital sorry for the coughing i forgot
01:01:34.580 to mention this uh we all have hand foot and mouth disease right now i had that we had that in the
01:01:44.580 whole family like uh six months ago yeah it's just it's just a thing that happens it's kid shit
01:01:49.280 yeah it's kid shit because they're like playground shit where could you've gotten it from like 0.63
01:01:53.320 anywhere anywhere a shopping cart a fucking playground a swing set like it doesn't there's
01:01:59.160 there's no way you can like cleanse yourself to prevent this but um nickels he he's got the bumps 0.88
01:02:05.740 he's he's he's he's doing okay otherwise but uh i've just had this not i'm pretty sure this cough
01:02:12.640 is symptomatic of it so i just sound diseased and infernal but it's the first time it's happened
01:02:20.000 and so of course the wife is panicking trying to think like is this fatal 0.76
01:02:25.040 was me i'm like no i think it's just it's just some shit that had that never happened in your
01:02:29.920 life before my mike uh eldest had uh scarlet fever a few weeks ago that's one of the cool
01:02:36.540 sounding ones i know it sounds like a fucking plague but i love scarlet fever it's just mini
01:02:41.120 chicken pox and then they said that usually if you get it like everybody in the family gets it
01:02:46.080 and we didn't it was just her we're like oh we fucking we're immune we're magic what's the thing
01:02:50.900 i think my wife is waiting for the other shoe drops of what am i gonna get but she's pregnant 0.93
01:02:54.680 so they're always kind of sick they're always kind of just feeling uneasy yeah lightheaded 0.92
01:03:01.400 um she describes it as having a sheep brain or her her brain is a sleepy sheep cool uh which is a
01:03:09.280 very apt way of describing it immediately understand what she's saying i mean i think a
01:03:14.160 lot of women have sheep brain like most of the time well you know you're saying that that the
01:03:17.680 brains of sheep which is understandable oh but this is like a sleepy sleepy sheep brain is a 0.99
01:03:22.720 sheep it is a sheep yes oh all right all right it's like a homunculus yeah whereas women have 0.85
01:03:27.980 the brains of a rat's nest there we go women have of course as we all know the king rat brain which 0.99
01:03:36.700 which is when rats become fused in a single entity
01:03:40.140 through confinement and piss and shit and seminal fluid.
01:03:45.680 Now, look at this.
01:03:47.460 I got some shit on screen right now.
01:03:49.220 Before we get to the book that we have to talk about,
01:03:51.720 someone had sent this.
01:03:52.540 I'm looking at Occidental Observer.
01:03:54.080 As long as we're talking about government corruption,
01:03:56.180 I'd be remiss if I didn't discuss this.
01:03:58.480 Occidental Observer, written by Kevin MacDonald.
01:04:01.360 Joe Biden's $93 billion scandal that no one's talking about yet.
01:04:06.700 And then there are the Trump scandals.
01:04:08.240 This was published this month, 2025.
01:04:11.940 It says,
01:04:12.900 Trump's corruption is all over the news
01:04:14.420 from the jet from Qatar,
01:04:17.180 his crypto coin project,
01:04:18.640 his son's making deals.
01:04:19.560 By the way,
01:04:21.040 everyone's talking about Qatar these days.
01:04:23.020 What's that about?
01:04:25.140 Something to do with...
01:04:26.240 Oh, there's two things.
01:04:27.140 I think Qatar bought a jet from Trump.
01:04:32.380 Who cares?
01:04:33.140 I don't care.
01:04:34.160 But then they're also trying to redirect
01:04:36.200 a lot of the jewish energy to qatar that's what i've noticed saying which is ridiculous which 0.90
01:04:41.820 is funny it's like oh you think the jews control the media guess what the qataris have invested 0.67
01:04:46.100 500 million i'm gonna call it it's good cutter also we're gonna call it cutter and they're the 0.65
01:04:50.360 qataris the qataris years now qatar has often been described as the wealthiest country in the world
01:04:56.560 with the highest gdp per capita of all the world's nations for multiple years in a row
01:05:01.240 The Qatari economy was larger than Ukraine's even before the Russian invasion, and with nearly 16 times fewer people, even when including all the foreign labor.
01:05:10.620 The state of Qatar wields the ninth largest sovereign wealth fund in the world, with assets exceeding $450 billion, including a large 10.5% stake in the Volkswagen Group and the outright ownership of the Paris Saint-Germain Football Club, the seventh most valuable football club in the entire world.
01:05:27.320 This is all in addition to a diversified real estate portfolio that makes the state of Qatar
01:05:31.560 the largest single property owner in London. 0.76
01:05:34.860 And they're saying, that's something I've seen from a lot of Jews in the past, 0.81
01:05:38.600 where it's like all the stuff you think is true about us. 1.00
01:05:41.340 It's actually the clutteries.
01:05:43.300 Forget that five minutes ago, I was saying it was impossible for any of those conspiracies to be true.
01:05:48.220 Forget that for the past 50 years, I've been saying anyone who traffics in those conspiracies is delusional.
01:05:54.420 it turns out they're all true but just not us it's these people that you haven't heard about
01:06:00.560 until just now but right right and like they're and they're such a tiny tiny tiny nation that
01:06:06.700 literally nobody has even ever met one there's not a single qatari congressman or senator there's
01:06:13.280 not a qatari statesman there's no no qataris in our media no qataris in our banks there's has you 0.59
01:06:18.740 have you ever seen a qatari have you ever the thing is i've dealt with qataris i did a i did
01:06:23.640 an international contract with Qataris about six seven years ago they're they're like Saudi light 1.00
01:06:29.960 I hate Saudis and the Qataris are like if I had to deal with an Arab today I'll pick the I'll pick 1.00
01:06:35.980 the Qatari also I suspect that they're true they're being truthful when they say that Qataris 1.00
01:06:43.540 are funneling money into media projects they're insanely wealthy but they're tiny they're even
01:06:48.760 yeah to my I could be wrong with this but my understanding is they're even smaller than the
01:06:51.680 saudis they just have insane oil wealth and they live in like a couple of little gated cities 0.94
01:06:56.560 that's it there's not they're nothing and and they're trying to say the qataris are doing this 0.94
01:07:01.480 because they're trying to drum up anti-semitism and if it were not for the qataris well that's 0.96
01:07:06.640 probably true but i mean everybody is because nobody likes jews but we're all doing saying 0.99
01:07:10.480 they say that to me as if i'm not there yeah they say that to us it's like without the qataris
01:07:17.920 then we're going to have antiseptives.
01:07:19.420 I'm like, do I mean nothing to you? 1.00
01:07:21.520 And if you can believe it, it's a gay op, surely. 1.00
01:07:27.360 Once again, going back to the article in Occidental Observer, 0.92
01:07:30.440 apparently Joe Biden is responsible for a $93 billion scandal.
01:07:35.820 Other commitments, I'm quoting from the article here,
01:07:39.340 there were commitments made from businesses that provide no business plans,
01:07:42.480 no numbers about their own financial solvency,
01:07:44.600 or how the project actually worked.
01:07:46.240 the senator appeared almost incredulous and asked for clarity.
01:07:49.400 The 76-day period you're talking about,
01:07:53.640 that's the period between the time that President Trump was elected
01:07:58.320 and President Biden left office. Is that right?
01:08:02.000 That is correct.
01:08:04.200 And during that short period of time, 76 days,
01:08:09.600 how much taxpayer money went out the door of the Department of Energy?
01:08:13.780 From the loan program office in loans and commitments, $93 billion.
01:08:21.600 Well over twice as much as in the previous 15 years.
01:08:28.260 How do you vet and do due diligence on a loan in 76 days?
01:08:39.140 There's no sort of business plan.
01:08:41.800 There's not even a pitch for what it is.
01:08:43.580 it might as well just be an llc that you set up and said send money here it's got it's technically
01:08:49.860 got a principal owner of it and it's like oh yeah well we need five billion dollars um and of course
01:08:55.720 by this point you know you could be forgiven for believing that joe biden was really like he was
01:09:04.140 set up there as a mechanism just for fraud i mean i thought i thought we were on board with that
01:09:10.780 that he was so senile from day one that there's like a swamp within the swamp or whatever you
01:09:15.880 want to call it but there's a there is an internal group of people that were really just using him to
01:09:20.660 to get their their mandate through yeah so why is this guy here well you can't prosecute him for
01:09:26.440 anything because he's dying and he's brain dead and then you can't really prosecute anyone else
01:09:32.340 because they were only allowed to do it because of that like who do you get in trouble who's
01:09:36.180 perfect what should i do the same thing if i was in that position it's brilliant it was a great
01:09:41.300 plan congratulations it's i would love it if it was that level of gangster shit like the very last
01:09:49.000 thing joe bine did was not even try to be president well they were saying a lot of those a lot of
01:09:55.300 those uh pardons right at the end because they were like a record number of pardons were just
01:10:00.940 done by auto pen and the staffers were taking bribes from random people like you know give me
01:10:08.120 150 000 and i'll use the auto pen to give your guy a pardon and that's where that came from
01:10:12.740 because a lot of those a lot of those people had no relationship at all to buy and i know you can
01:10:16.820 write into the president or whatever but the guy literally he is only awake nine hours a day he's
01:10:22.720 he's almost dead if we're being modern monetary theorists then nothing's anything it's just it's
01:10:30.020 Just commas in a spreadsheet.
01:10:31.580 That's how they're treating it.
01:10:33.200 Do you want some commas?
01:10:35.240 Do you want some cap?
01:10:35.920 Do you want a spigot?
01:10:36.420 Let's turn the spigot over you.
01:10:37.440 What are you going to do with it?
01:10:38.080 I don't know.
01:10:39.300 And that's actually a great way to segue into the book, ironically enough.
01:10:43.460 Oh, no.
01:10:46.120 Do we have enough time?
01:10:47.640 Yes, we have enough time.
01:10:49.200 I just want to bring a couple bits of show news here.
01:10:53.140 there's a live stream that we did
01:10:55.560 this week with myself
01:10:57.760 Chris Sandbach, Fortisax
01:10:59.520 and North Huger, the title
01:11:01.740 was the Christian Pagan Synthesis
01:11:03.920 Summit, it ended up
01:11:05.740 being one of the more fascinating panels
01:11:07.620 we've done so far, we've done a few of these
01:11:09.660 but this one might just be for the boys
01:11:11.900 this one got really weird
01:11:14.080 it got weird in a way that I don't
01:11:15.760 think people were expecting
01:11:16.860 I think they were expecting just a 1.00
01:11:19.020 boring old Christian Pagan debate
01:11:21.060 I'm like, no, if you're a listener of this show, you'll know that when I say we ended up getting into Soviet monetary theory and Julian James and then break down the bicameral mind, you know, oh, it's one of those.
01:11:33.860 So if you give this a chance, you'll have a lot more fun listening than I think you're probably expecting from what sounded perhaps like a bit of a stuffy thing.
01:11:43.400 But whenever Chris Sandbatch is there, it's always an enjoyable time.
01:11:48.140 I think the quote of the night that a lot of my friends were discussing was he just converted to Catholicism.
01:11:58.280 I don't know if that's real.
01:12:00.000 I don't know if he's going to stick with it.
01:12:01.060 But he had said the most Protestant thing an American can do is convert to Catholicism.
01:12:08.320 And part of it's joking.
01:12:10.780 I don't know if he's going to stick with it.
01:12:13.520 But I'm paraphrasing here.
01:12:15.480 but yeah if you want to know what he means by that look it up on youtube go to our channel
01:12:20.900 on youtube subscribe there odyssey rumble did he tell you never mind never mind i've heard
01:12:26.620 conflicting stories about how he had converting heat the story he told on the stream was that he
01:12:32.860 lost a bet um then another person recounted a story where he was on twitter and was instructed
01:12:39.480 by one of the habsburg descendants to do it and he just followed orders i'm like
01:12:43.660 you sound like different things but both could be true or neither what what just i gotta say
01:12:49.320 what an all-around trustworthy and serious guy you you are neutral and sandbatch
01:12:56.880 i i have a great time with sandy i always i always love having sandy but this
01:13:02.580 this is a pagan christian thing for people who are exhausted with that sort of thing you'll find
01:13:09.160 a lot to like there. Also, I forgot to mention this on a previous episode. We have a Spotify
01:13:15.580 playlist, a couple of different Spotify plays. One is that Real Secret Coffee Hours, our paywall
01:13:20.900 show. Recent episode just came out. Episodes are coming out every week. The recent one that came
01:13:27.020 out was, what was it even about? Hold on. It was about Harold Covington and the failure of the
01:13:34.660 Northwest Territorial
01:13:36.020 project that he was
01:13:38.700 engaged in, which was
01:13:40.380 White's only
01:13:42.680 space, he's the leader, 1.00
01:13:44.740 come move to this land, come
01:13:46.580 build a community, come build
01:13:48.560 this place for us, and then
01:13:50.940 exploring why
01:13:52.580 no one came, why
01:13:54.560 that didn't happen. It's cold.
01:13:56.920 And, well, the Pacific
01:13:58.560 Northwest is often chosen as
01:14:00.660 the space for something like this, for
01:14:02.600 variety of reasons but it had more to do with his character and personality but it's also a larger
01:14:08.240 discussion about how many people attempt to replicate this project and i've seen it be
01:14:13.880 replicated many times even owen benjamin tried it with bear taria that wasn't explicitly
01:14:18.720 white nationalist but it's the same sort of thing a very enigmatic central figure
01:14:22.780 big following a lot of money involved let's buy some land let's do it right let's all of us go
01:14:29.700 have our own breakaway society and why does it never work why is it never and there's so many
01:14:36.200 examples and why is it never and so that's kind of what it's about um but so that's uh that's on
01:14:42.420 patreon that's on gumroad we have an rss feed available for the patreon subscribers and we
01:14:48.980 also have another uh and that that rss feed is also available on spotify so if you're on spotify
01:14:55.400 you can actually any of your payroll subscriber you can listen to the show on spotify which a
01:14:59.240 lot of people are enjoying. But also we have another Spotify playlist that people can subscribe
01:15:03.160 to. Find Blood Salad on there. You should be able to access it. It's also on our Telegram
01:15:08.040 and X. We've had a Spotify playlist of all the songs from the live stream intros. Surprising
01:15:16.620 a lot of people were asking for that. They just wanted the full playlist of all those
01:15:20.720 songs. So you can listen to it now in the order of when they air on the episodes. And
01:15:25.120 there's quite a few in there. It's a pretty eclectic mix. So if people are interested
01:15:28.740 than that, you can go ahead.
01:15:31.300 And that's about it for the show news.
01:15:34.200 What we were just talking about,
01:15:36.680 we were laughing about MMT,
01:15:39.320 laughing about...
01:15:41.160 There's this book that I'd read recently.
01:15:45.580 The book, it's a great follow-up
01:15:48.220 to what we had just covered with Stalin's war.
01:15:52.100 The story of World War II
01:15:54.380 and recasting Stalin as the... 0.77
01:15:58.000 Not the instigator, per se, but the main benefactor and one of the leading forces behind it. 0.76
01:16:04.640 And I mentioned this on the live stream.
01:16:06.380 We talked very, very briefly about this book in service of another point I was making.
01:16:10.200 But it's Building a Ruin, The Cold War Politics of Soviet Economic Reform by Yakov Fagan.
01:16:18.880 And this is recommended to me by a good friend of the show, Sean Weiland.
01:16:25.800 I get quite a few economics suggestions from him, books to read, him and others.
01:16:31.980 But he was going through a whole spell of Soviet economic theory and Cold War economics.
01:16:38.780 And this was always a big gap for me because we know about Stalin.
01:16:43.940 We know about the espionage of the Cold War.
01:16:46.700 But I didn't know too much about Soviet economics.
01:16:49.720 Because what you're told oftentimes by communists or Marxists is that communism and Soviet project, but communism largely failed because it was never given a shot or America stood in its way or didn't allow to compete on the world stage.
01:17:07.160 If you don't know anything about it, you'd be liable to agree with that, right?
01:17:12.200 But that's not the case at all.
01:17:14.100 I think it's vastly different, especially when you look at the internal politics at the time.
01:17:20.700 And before we get started, I just wanted to note, do you have any insight or thoughts on Soviet economics?
01:17:28.660 I know it's a stranger to say, but Soviet economics, or do you know anything about this?
01:17:33.580 I don't know anything specifically about how it operates.
01:17:36.380 you know obviously i have libertarian priors so i have absolutely no faith in the ability of
01:17:41.580 central planners to organize an entire national economy so it makes sense to me that it could
01:17:47.620 never have possibly worked but i understand that that's not a commonly held belief well the story
01:17:53.780 here what i found so fascinating was they came to the same conclusions earlier than you might have
01:18:00.120 thought or most people have thought or certainly that i thought and that was during this period
01:18:05.720 and we're covering several decades here this is after world war ii and this is during a period
01:18:09.640 this is the period of um breznev and khrushchev post-stalin these leaders who are trying in their
01:18:18.940 own way to figure out how to compete with the west and compete on stable ground because there
01:18:26.200 was going to be no hot war they knew that and they truly it's incorrect to say that they were
01:18:33.320 all cynical opportunists and i think the evidence shows that not only stalin but but khrushchev
01:18:39.480 breznev all these people they were true believers in soviet ideology they're true believers in
01:18:44.680 central planning but over time they had to readjust their goals and figure out why america was doing
01:18:51.560 so well what does the planned economy of the soviet union what is it supposed to do what
01:18:59.320 are the assumptions here? And the assumptions are kind of fourfold. One is that all economic
01:19:07.140 growth comes from the expansion of the means of production, right? That means that all growth is
01:19:12.520 the result of technical progress, an investment into high end of technology. The highest form of
01:19:20.340 the organization of this kind of growth model is the vertically integrated capitalist factory of
01:19:27.060 the late 19th, early 20th century. The fourth assumption is that war is inevitable under
01:19:34.620 inter-capitalist competition, and in the long run, capitalists cannot work together and the
01:19:39.740 international system is unstable. Now, the addendum to that is that that is a driver of
01:19:48.820 the move from capitalism to socialism. That's another assumption, right? The assumption is
01:19:54.560 of the 1917 revolution it didn't spread because this system stabilized and there was what's so
01:20:01.860 interesting about this is i remember we talked about this by reviewing that book the network
01:20:07.180 state when i said that the left right axis in civilization is not an ideology you can you can
01:20:14.980 put ideologies on that scale but within every civilization there is left there's a right
01:20:20.180 And they're always weighting the society against each other, right?
01:20:25.020 They're always in conflict.
01:20:26.900 And so usually that's the progressive side or the reform side versus the conservative side.
01:20:32.400 And whatever the civilization is, you have those two components.
01:20:34.480 And you saw the same thing in the Soviet Union. 0.94
01:20:36.480 The entire time you had this reform side, this wing within the Soviet, not only the intelligentsia, but within the political apparatus, and then the conservative side were really the true diehards.
01:20:48.540 but they're always in conflict and they're saying like no we need to tweak or rejigger this system
01:20:54.500 or we need to yeah because one thing he points out earlier in the book is that you weren't even
01:20:59.540 really allowed to discuss economics like to even propose something different was very very difficult
01:21:07.260 but they had really to me the main thesis of the book this is my takeaway and the book really ends
01:21:16.420 on it and this was talking about the live stream that if you look at the american system i think
01:21:21.840 we would all agree that america isn't a strictly capitalist country and hasn't been no since the
01:21:29.480 not it not remotely yeah and libertarians say it all the time but i think everyone also understands
01:21:34.220 that to be true um so there's of course capitalist elements there's private property enterprise but
01:21:41.080 there's a significantly powerful welfare state there's there's no shortage of socialist sentiment
01:21:48.200 within america and you can blame the new deal for that but you can also you can go back even further
01:21:53.800 with that um so it's this chimera of other things and the point he was making was the soviet union
01:22:01.080 was following the same trajectory and i really think what they were both intersecting at the
01:22:09.160 same nexus which was technocracy i think that is what america is now and that's what the soviet
01:22:16.180 union would have been and arguably that's what russia is now too which is different than
01:22:20.800 socialism different than communism different than capitalism it's being led by technology
01:22:27.240 which is different than capitalism because that wouldn't just have technology driving everything
01:22:33.340 in fact technological development is demanding that everything catch up with it we almost have
01:22:40.620 no control over it that's the problem and that most of the power rests in the hands of the
01:22:46.580 technocrats which who are not in any way associated with the government they kind of are they're
01:22:53.860 entwined but what you know what i notice is the relationship with elon musk for example
01:22:58.760 but also the social media typhoons
01:23:01.360 or even the Jeff Bezos's
01:23:02.780 the government seems to be pursuing them
01:23:05.720 they're not pursuing the government
01:23:07.580 they're not trying to get into politics
01:23:09.840 it seems that politics is trying to
01:23:11.740 grasp at them
01:23:13.020 for relevancy
01:23:14.180 to try and get them to come into
01:23:17.220 politics
01:23:18.200 but they don't really need politics
01:23:19.920 they don't need the government
01:23:21.080 they're as influential and powerful
01:23:23.080 maybe even more so
01:23:24.160 but how did that happen?
01:23:26.120 what the fuck is that system?
01:23:28.560 They are driven by their own ideology, of course.
01:23:30.900 We've discussed the California ideology at length in the past,
01:23:34.380 but this idea of what the technocracy is,
01:23:37.600 that sort of a fusion of capitalism and socialism,
01:23:40.180 because, of course, everyone will say that Tesla only survives
01:23:45.760 by significant government subsidies.
01:23:47.800 It is not a truly capitalist enterprise.
01:23:50.100 A lot of these organizations aren't.
01:23:51.700 They can only survive through taxpayer money.
01:23:53.360 um however the government likes it because they're only relevant because of the technology
01:24:00.180 they're only you see it's it's there's a synergy there of course but the argument he was making
01:24:06.420 and i think this is true that he calls it the str the science technological revolution that
01:24:12.800 was seen as his own thing because the industrial revolution was over for all intents and purposes
01:24:18.320 and the Soviet Union, Russia, the Soviet Union
01:24:22.580 was still trapped in an industrial mindset.
01:24:24.820 They were noticing that America was already moving out of that.
01:24:28.080 They had put all of their bets, all their money
01:24:31.540 was being put on technological development. 0.67
01:24:33.820 Whereas in the Soviet Union, they're like, 0.62
01:24:35.540 no, we just need more commodities. 0.61
01:24:37.480 We need more factories.
01:24:38.520 We need to be producing more things.
01:24:40.600 And America was done with that.
01:24:41.500 They're done producing.
01:24:44.940 It's chaos.
01:24:45.980 there there there's the plans in particular aren't really plans they're just kind of
01:24:50.620 almost like i would compare them almost to like a dartboard of throwing stuff at the board to see
01:24:56.060 if it sticks right there is a veneer of planning and you know the planning institutions but they
01:25:02.040 don't do much and the first supply your plans they're completely going on pure inertia and
01:25:10.280 throwing stuff at the board until it sticks. And I mean, some of that is extreme violence,
01:25:16.240 frankly, right? And extreme repression, especially of, you know, the peasantry. But
01:25:23.120 when you're starting at a low base and you have a very large population surplus to storm at things
01:25:29.080 at work, but it works. By the third five-year plan, even they're beginning to kind of realize
01:25:34.380 there needs to be some logic or reason here. There needs to be some rolling off of that very
01:25:39.860 kind of high rates of investment and amongst the steps that are taken is an attempt to
01:25:47.860 professionalize the planning bodies just a bit again they're trying to develop new technology
01:25:52.520 which was it could absorb more capital and you know expand a lot faster than what they were doing
01:25:59.540 so the entire time during this time period they're saying that no we need to change our
01:26:04.120 entire economy and there's there's people fighting against that and oh what are you
01:26:08.260 by the fucking capitalists.
01:26:09.600 No, no, trust factories and commodities
01:26:12.000 and central planning.
01:26:13.820 But it's wrong to say
01:26:15.460 that the Soviets were doing that the entire time
01:26:18.260 and kept in line by America.
01:26:20.260 It's like, no, the Soviets were struggling
01:26:22.020 for relevancy the entire fucking time. 0.77
01:26:24.820 They couldn't compete on the global stage
01:26:26.580 because they were being outclassed by America
01:26:28.420 the entire time.
01:26:29.580 The big thing that he mentions,
01:26:31.960 and this really changes how you look
01:26:34.260 at this technocratic society
01:26:37.160 and why the stories of automation
01:26:40.180 and the projections for automation are so concerning.
01:26:44.280 It's because, and I'm telling people things
01:26:46.440 they already know, obviously, if they're into economics,
01:26:48.520 but one thing that helped America,
01:26:51.280 if you're investing so much in technology
01:26:53.760 and you're investing so much in innovation,
01:26:56.820 you need a consumer market to circulate that money.
01:27:01.480 And we're going to get into this in the next couple books
01:27:04.000 about how the money market operates
01:27:06.740 and how much i know you know this too but it's um the idea is that the soviet union was great
01:27:14.240 at producing stuff it can have a lot of factories can make a lot of stuff but that money didn't
01:27:21.580 circulate down to the people or if it did circulate down the people and they were very
01:27:27.440 successful the people didn't have anything to spend money on so what do you do if you have a
01:27:32.840 lot of money, but you can't spend it on anything, you hoard it. And that was the reality of the
01:27:38.980 Soviet Union for a long time. On paper, you were seeing some of these people wealthier than ever,
01:27:44.880 but they didn't spend their money. So it was just a weight in society. It wasn't circulating back
01:27:50.060 in the economy. People weren't spending it on commodity goods. It was just sitting there. And
01:27:53.680 if money's sitting there, that's bad for the economy. It's got to be moving. It's got to be
01:27:58.380 supporting businesses it's got to be flowing and other things and so the soviet union always fought
01:28:03.640 against that they didn't want to consume right they didn't want people just buying stuff just
01:28:06.880 to buy it and we would say that the consumer's culture is toxic and degenerate and stuff but
01:28:12.820 that's one dimension i think is missing in the conversation when people say well
01:28:17.060 aside from technological innovation it was the consumer market itself that allowed the not only
01:28:26.000 the prosperity to circulate back in the economy but also to create more entrepreneurial opportunities
01:28:33.400 that way and that's the danger of trying to say how we ought to disrupt the economy
01:28:38.660 there's two the consumerism is too high i'm like no you understand consumerism is all this economy
01:28:45.400 is and it's been that way since like the 70s and that to to revert course on that would be
01:28:55.020 tantamount to shifting the entire economy you see what i'm saying like it's it can't be people buy
01:29:00.940 less things because if people buy less things then everything fucking falls apart and everyone
01:29:06.500 knows that because with america north america is the center the economic center of the world
01:29:13.320 so much of international trade is just servicing this consumer market that's what the china's
01:29:18.980 entire economy is proud of the fact that america america itself is one of the biggest consumer
01:29:24.040 markets in the world it just consumes so much that it keeps everyone fed and if america stops 0.86
01:29:29.900 consuming like what the fuck does china do they've been this is what bricks doesn't get i'm like okay 0.82
01:29:34.900 if you lose the american market who's buying your stuff is it india i don't think so is it russia 0.83
01:29:42.440 probably not is it who else is in there iran get fucking real south africa are you joking like
01:29:50.420 You don't think any of those countries would buy – you just wouldn't buy them in the same quantity.
01:29:56.580 Not to equal the market of America because so much of their production is dependent on this marketplace buying their goods.
01:30:05.960 You would absolutely have spoliation of the capital in China because they're less volume.
01:30:11.840 And there could be a lot of reasons for that.
01:30:13.620 Maybe they don't believe in consumer markets.
01:30:15.320 They don't have enough money.
01:30:16.260 They don't have an educated population.
01:30:17.920 Maybe they don't have a population that's primed for consumerism, right?
01:30:21.980 There's a lot of reasons, but it is, you know, qualitative assessments aside,
01:30:27.440 how much of this entire system hinges on American consumerism? 0.55
01:30:32.720 And again, I'm not even saying that, like, look at these fat Americans.
01:30:35.180 I'm just calling it what it is. 0.91
01:30:36.980 That was what separated the Soviet economy from the American economy,
01:30:41.900 and they weren't viewing Americans as gluttons. 0.57
01:30:44.820 they were saying like no they have this consumer base that we don't have and that allows them to
01:30:49.780 circulate money throughout it which allows because if you don't have that it just sits it sits with
01:30:55.340 the peasants i don't know about the specific language that's being used like to understand
01:31:02.920 it in the context of consumerism because like when we're talking about toxic consumerism in the
01:31:08.600 states we're saying like people buy they'll buy a thing and they'll use it for three months and
01:31:14.820 they'll throw it away because a new one is so cheap that's that is toxic consumerism and that
01:31:19.520 is bad that's spoliation and it it does actually hurt people downstream it hurts your children
01:31:24.400 it it hurts a lot of things it's not that's actually that is bad but i think maybe what
01:31:29.280 we're actually talking about is the fact that there is price discovery and there's a there's
01:31:33.880 market where people are willing to buy because they know that their money is good for the things
01:31:38.920 they actually want and so they're happy to just go to the shop whereas in the soviets i i do know
01:31:43.880 that the way that soviet production was organized when it was centrally produced like the one
01:31:47.400 example i had read of it was shoes they had a census a very bad census and they would say
01:31:52.760 people of a certain age on average have a certain shoe size and so we'll
01:31:56.440 produce a certain number of these certain shoes and the result was that half of the population
01:32:01.800 could never find shoes that fit and so they just didn't buy them they just went shoeless or they
01:32:06.280 tried to make their own or they had black market shoes from other countries but the the result
01:32:10.760 from the perspective of the of the politburo or the commissariat commissariat or whatever would
01:32:15.240 have been that oh well these people are just hoarding their money they're hoarding it they're
01:32:19.240 hoarding it they're not buying the shoes yeah because the shoes don't fit because you don't
01:32:22.840 have a market and you don't have price discovery you don't have a way of adjusting shoe production
01:32:27.080 based on the market demand of the people with feet so and i so i don't i don't like this whole
01:32:32.660 thing it's like oh well consumerism is actually really great i don't think it's consumerism i
01:32:36.540 think it's just the ability to have a market to let the market react to people's demands which
01:32:42.480 is not like a super libertarian thing this is just like basic you like human coordination 101
01:32:48.120 yeah well also keep in mind i'm not even saying that it's great like i said irrespective of the
01:32:53.540 qualitative things i'm not saying it's good or bad it's just right okay like the idea of planned
01:32:58.480 obsolescence the whole idea here is that within the economy the money needs to keep moving because
01:33:04.220 if it doesn't move then it sits what banks don't like or what the government doesn't like and again
01:33:09.140 you can agree or disagree with this but we know the government hates when money is just kept in
01:33:14.380 savings accounts they would rather it be moving so to that let's let's take the idea of planned
01:33:20.760 obsolescence plant obsolescence no one likes it everyone says it's bad it's objectively bad it's
01:33:26.640 objectively bad why why the government loves it though yeah because it moves money around it's
01:33:31.760 like juicing gdp by importing browns it's the same thing and that's why i'm saying like i everyone
01:33:36.400 hates this but no one's stopping it it must be that this is what the economy is the economy only
01:33:43.340 makes sense if you're buying a new laptop every three years because it's bad for the economy if
01:33:50.220 you just buy one great computer every 25 years and that was kind of the logic behind the soviet union
01:33:56.540 taken to the opposing extreme which is that you'll need you should only need to have one pair of
01:34:02.140 shoes yeah and then that and then the bureaucracy to support that and all i'm saying is that if that
01:34:07.820 was their impression of it they're just wrong they interpreted it wrong yeah exactly like they're
01:34:11.660 different yeah yeah like their problem that soviet main problem the soviet union is that
01:34:16.140 there's and this is we'll get into this in like the not the next book the one after that
01:34:22.420 they're basically saying that you can solve the problem with centralized planning by just
01:34:28.080 having a supercomputer do it you already have a supercomputer you already have one it's called
01:34:35.220 the population and we're going to cover a book where a guy basically says that which is and
01:34:40.780 trying to not only, I don't want to get too far ahead of myself because we have so much,
01:34:46.480 I haven't even started covering the book here yet, but the idea would be that you could take the
01:34:51.660 main structure of a central bank government, if you just plug a hyper-competent AI, you could have
01:34:56.640 it just not only create the businesses, but also design the products that respond to the market
01:35:04.560 forces and do it faster than people. So it'd be like a replicator, but the replicator wouldn't
01:35:10.000 be just materializing something it would just be the superkeeper that's designing products and
01:35:13.980 producing them very very fast so they they haven't rejected the central tenants of centralized
01:35:20.220 planning they've just been oh they said oh the problem was bureaucracy the problem was people
01:35:24.480 however there's still this belief in a lot of people that you can still do that if you just
01:35:31.000 have smarter people that's sort of the technocratic belief too that's like oh if you just get the 1.00
01:35:35.500 smartest people involved then the problem with the silvies was just they were dumb and they were big 0.98
01:35:39.920 crumpled suits right but uh like with your shoe example like what if we had an ai actually they 0.99
01:35:44.660 actually did design the perfect shoe the one perfect shoe that's what they it's just it's
01:35:51.660 and then look i yeah no i agree i know i'm not even saying that's bad like i know these people
01:35:56.940 exist and they're writing books just it's like it's like provably logically it's it's total
01:36:02.060 logically false like and i don't want to i can't i just can't it also hinges on in the same way the
01:36:09.580 soviet hinge on like what would just let like the soviet you know like they had their own idea of
01:36:14.940 the invisible hand of the market in a sense but they didn't like markets but it'd be the invisible
01:36:19.540 hand of the people and we would just we would just be the hand in the sense right is the visible hand
01:36:25.660 of the people and like except you're never actually asking them or reacting to any of their demands
01:36:30.140 or desires whatsoever in fact if they say anything you just throw them in a mass grave and there's
01:36:34.660 this faith in ai almost a spiritual faith in the ai it's like well it's going to be a perfect mind
01:36:39.780 we'll just create a perfect mind and then we haven't perfect minds obviously but we'll create
01:36:43.760 the mind of god and then it could just make all the business plans for us it sounds so funny when
01:36:49.260 you say like that but i'm not joking that is what they're saying they're insane they are insane
01:36:53.820 who needs price discovery we'll have the ai tell us what the price should be and it'll make sense
01:36:58.380 because it thinks faster than us, dummy.
01:37:02.740 So Building a Ruin, just to summarize,
01:37:04.940 I haven't even read from the book yet,
01:37:06.060 but to summarize, it shows this transition
01:37:08.580 and this conflict within the Soviet system
01:37:11.420 up into the collapse of the Soviet system,
01:37:13.240 how it was unable to keep up
01:37:14.680 with the innovative force of America.
01:37:18.440 It was struggling to do that,
01:37:19.540 mainly because of its internal politics.
01:37:21.920 But it started to get close.
01:37:24.420 There was real reform happening in there.
01:37:27.640 but it really gives you an insight into the soviet mindset but it wasn't just that
01:37:33.600 the world conspired against the soviets like there was real foundational problems with how they
01:37:39.820 viewed this the communist project so i'll just start here it says stalinist logic held that
01:37:46.760 the process of industrialization was not to be planned by bureaucrats distributing resources
01:37:51.940 optimally, but was a wholesale politicization of the production
01:37:55.840 process. Mass mobilization and campaigns of terror
01:37:59.600 were a means to monitor and manage the production process and those who
01:38:03.780 administered it. This logic worked in the context of European imperialism,
01:38:08.260 but something new emerged on the horizon, the American hegemonic
01:38:11.940 project. Hegemony was a new kind of capitalist system, anchored
01:38:15.740 not in competing imperial blocs, but in a world of nation-states
01:38:19.560 articulated around unprecedented combination of military and economic power of the United States.
01:38:25.540 It vowed to export its own revolutionary project of a capitalism that promised something
01:38:31.360 unassociated with pre-1945 capitalism, stable mass prosperity. And this was the American promise 0.50
01:38:38.340 globally. American capitalism has consistently been more driven by mass consumption than its
01:38:44.340 european cousin i think that's a good way to start by saying that i think the economic war the soviets
01:38:51.160 thought they were fighting for many decades was like a 19th century or even pre-industrial version
01:38:58.200 like it didn't account for the power imbalance after world war ii despite what stalin did like
01:39:02.940 they they were they're playing a different game than what america was playing and so and that's
01:39:09.180 why it took so long
01:39:11.200 to catch up.
01:39:12.980 It continues here. 0.72
01:39:16.340 Stalin's particular
01:39:17.340 reading of Marxism through the lens of
01:39:19.240 geopolitics meant that building socialism
01:39:21.460 in one country would take
01:39:23.360 particularly coercive approaches
01:39:25.260 to setting up institutions necessary
01:39:27.160 to force savings. The problem
01:39:29.380 with such a model is that it has diminishing
01:39:31.340 returns. As Polish 1.00
01:39:33.360 economist Michael Kalecki argued,
01:39:35.260 and this is, we're going to cover this guy next episode,
01:39:37.220 Mike Michal Kalecki argued,
01:40:07.220 Available to absorb output, capital is marked down and thus the growth rate of the economy falls.
01:40:12.960 Under Kalecki's framework, it's good for all capitalists that there are high wages
01:40:17.020 since that ensures the investments they make should be profitable.
01:40:21.140 For readers familiar with recent literature on East Asia,
01:40:24.160 this will sound eerily like the infamous middle income trap applied to the so-called tiger economies
01:40:30.180 of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore to contemporary China.
01:40:34.760 Now, the middle income trap, we've discussed that before, I believe.
01:40:39.180 The so-called middle income trap refers to the fact that a lot of countries
01:40:43.240 reach a particular standard of living, broadly called middle income,
01:40:47.500 but then they don't break through to being fully developed, fully wealthy countries.
01:40:52.040 If you look at this graph here, you can see that Japan has broken through,
01:40:56.220 and you can see that South Korea has broken through, Singapore and Taiwan.
01:41:01.080 But most developing nations, they reach this certain level. 0.67
01:41:03.780 It's the group bandit in here, and then they more or less stick there. 0.94
01:41:07.740 They grow slowly, and they do not, as I said, fully develop.
01:41:11.740 Continuing on, it says,
01:41:12.620 In the USSR in the 1970s, Brezhnev and his allies took the risk of economic stagnation
01:41:18.360 in a search for political stability.
01:41:20.880 In doing so, however, they made one contemporary scholar
01:41:24.780 refer to as a little deal with the country at large.
01:41:28.460 Corruption in the private sphere would be accepted,
01:41:31.700 and mobilization largely abandoned.
01:41:34.600 Thus, the depoliticization of Soviet life
01:41:37.080 that had been associated with the 70s
01:41:38.760 was in and of itself a political project.
01:41:41.900 After 1991, Soviet elites abandoned socialism itself,
01:41:46.660 but perhaps not the conservative consensus.
01:41:50.160 The stability was purchased via both energy revenues
01:41:53.520 and the growth generated by a rising Russian consumer
01:41:56.100 who now had access to deep global markets
01:41:58.340 rather than a planned economy.
01:41:59.820 so that's sort of jumping ahead to the conclusion but by the end of it by 91 after so many decades
01:42:06.400 you actually saw faith in the soviet system really start to falter and fail as they were introduced
01:42:12.800 as they were forced to introduce themselves to international markets to adapt in certain ways
01:42:19.860 and as they began to adapt more prosperity emerged in russia and soviet union rather and then
01:42:27.640 And while they might have held on to their conservative priors,
01:42:32.700 there was no spirit of socialism left.
01:42:36.420 So when you talk about the fall of the Berlin Wall,
01:42:38.720 when you talk about the fall of the Iron Curtain
01:42:40.860 and the collapse of the Soviet project,
01:42:43.280 I think that element's always left out of that.
01:42:45.440 No one believed it anymore.
01:42:46.780 They did at one point.
01:42:48.700 And they might have been able to defend it ideologically,
01:42:52.920 and they might have even been able to defend it culturally.
01:42:56.660 When you say conservative, like, no, we are Soviets.
01:42:59.420 We've been Soviets for 50, 60 years, right?
01:43:01.900 So you defend it like that, but you don't actually believe in it
01:43:04.780 because you've seen with your own eyes how corrupt it's been.
01:43:07.940 And if you're in your 40s or 50s,
01:43:10.640 you've seen the compromises that have occurred in the government. 0.59
01:43:14.440 So you understand the Soviet Republic you inhabit now
01:43:18.280 is nowhere near the Soviet Republic of the 30s.
01:43:21.420 What even is this? 0.68
01:43:23.080 What's this contraption, right? 0.89
01:43:24.960 Kind of like Americans when they say,
01:43:26.660 like well this isn't capitalist like i'm a libertarian of capital so well that's not what
01:43:31.500 this is well what is it what am i doing what what system is this like you have that that's part of
01:43:36.500 being red-pilled i guess it's like you wake up like wait what even is this this is nothing like
01:43:41.720 what i was told is nothing what i thought this this is a weird machine you know yeah it goes on
01:43:48.000 here at its heart this debate was about whether the law of value which is marx's term for the
01:43:53.980 relationship of labor to prices that drove commodity production and thus autonomous market
01:43:59.860 basic change limited the soviet state's options regarding the development of its economy or if a
01:44:05.920 law quote of quote planned development allowed a state-owned economy to coordinate in ways that
01:44:12.160 would eliminate the contradictions that limited the rate of development in a capitalist economy
01:44:15.900 as stalin freely admitted while value and thus economic calculation could still exist in our
01:44:21.860 socialism, it could not dictate the priorities of the revolutionary state. The new politics of the
01:44:28.340 Cold War allowed Soviet economists to begin reinventing themselves as a profession possessing
01:44:34.840 expert knowledge necessary to win the competition. Khrushchev's intervention in the USSR's revolutionary
01:44:41.520 ideology created the space in which an expert could claim to be an integral part of economic
01:44:46.320 policy making process so you can be an economist not just revolutionary because Stalin was very
01:44:51.320 revolutionary um and the belief that the soviet project must expand right but now you started
01:44:57.260 seeing the emergence of just these professionals just these experts just these economists or
01:45:01.960 intellectuals that were you know stepping away from just the revolutionary rhetoric because
01:45:08.920 that's all it was right and trying to actually get to the heart of the fucking matter which the
01:45:13.740 the true blue revolutionaries, 0.86
01:45:15.980 true red revolutionaries,
01:45:17.640 would find corrupting in some sense. 0.71
01:45:22.060 This in turn implied an unpleasant question.
01:45:24.880 Could economic criteria displace the party's political judgment
01:45:28.360 in deciding the priorities of the planned economy?
01:45:31.360 And like you said, there's a shift,
01:45:33.520 like a total flip that happened there,
01:45:35.980 that your ideology dictated what the economy should be.
01:45:40.600 Then you start to shift more towards,
01:45:42.920 like what is this economy then you're saying maybe the economy should dictate what the ideology is
01:45:49.180 and it's it completely inverted the power structure there and as it continued to invert
01:45:55.040 that more than anything to my mind was the fall of the soviet union that the ideology the economic
01:46:01.460 ideology back in it could no longer interface at all with what the economy actually was and had to
01:46:08.540 become just to fucking survive because half the country doesn't have shoes and then you know all
01:46:14.840 the everyone's aware that the internal party politics is not what it purports to be we know
01:46:20.980 there's black markets just kind of like i assume north korea is the same thing right now it's like
01:46:25.680 oh the kim dynasty is up there but on the ground it's way different out there we pay attention to
01:46:31.220 the propaganda but we've got very little insight into what the average north korean does and i bet
01:46:38.400 it's very cynical it might be and they might be highly informed it might be highly intellectual 0.71
01:46:44.520 but it's deeply cynical about this strange shoddy thing it might feel it's better off in south 0.94
01:46:51.560 korea and that's the thing like you can no longer look across the aisle and say maybe we can escape 0.95
01:46:56.920 to something better oh they're all gay there and they're also poor huh so i can be i can be poor 1.00
01:47:04.420 and boiling my shoes there 0.94
01:47:06.020 or it can be in South Korea
01:47:08.420 I can also be poor
01:47:10.060 and I can be trans 1.00
01:47:12.620 these are real questions a Korean must
01:47:16.440 ask themselves but you see
01:47:18.380 we're so post ideological
01:47:20.180 or in the sense that
01:47:21.840 there's no good
01:47:24.120 anywhere it's just
01:47:25.520 variations like we said about the South
01:47:28.320 Africans
01:47:28.920 the South African refugees 1.00
01:47:31.180 who came over to America you want to pull them 1.00
01:47:34.220 sign say we have black people here too and they might not be better like there's there's actually 0.93
01:47:42.520 no good we were trying to escape to south africa what are you doing here you you pass them at the 1.00
01:47:49.500 airport on the way ships in the night i thought we've been telling each other that we need to get
01:47:54.440 to south africa you're what are you doing here i thought it was you're going to detroit you're 0.97
01:47:58.660 going to fucking I you're gonna you're gonna the Somalia part of America stuck 0.99
01:48:04.340 you there oh no you you guys missed him yet the the blacks are trying to kill 0.99
01:48:10.360 you here the government's trying to kill you here and the blacks are incidental 0.99
01:48:14.660 if we run out of blacks they'll ship they'll ship them in to kill you that's 1.00
01:48:19.900 the new slavery we're sending shapes slave ships to bring over Africans just 0.96
01:48:24.580 to kill the white refugees um and it just goes a bit into the formation of the soviet economy
01:48:35.860 because you know a lot of the the rules and the strategies used to rapidly industrialize regardless
01:48:43.460 the way you think about rapid industrialization and all the millions of lives lost under that
01:48:50.020 that tectonic shift um what what was successful there could not be replicated in a technological
01:48:57.060 revolution and that's what they struggled against because with industrial automation you know it's
01:49:02.020 just more faster bigger better more stuff working in tandem but to develop technology and to innovate
01:49:10.820 is very very different so they actually couldn't they couldn't throw money at the same problems
01:49:16.660 And he says here,
01:49:46.660 and the second of their five-year plans
01:49:48.560 slowed down the breakneck pace
01:49:50.480 in the investment of the first.
01:49:51.980 Thus, Soviet-style economies
01:49:54.160 were driven by political cycles
01:49:56.120 in the rate of investment
01:49:57.380 rather than any kind of features
01:49:59.260 of the economic model written by Feldman.
01:50:01.880 For the purposes of the study
01:50:03.120 of historical political economy,
01:50:05.040 all economic policy outcomes,
01:50:07.000 whether in socialism or capitalism,
01:50:09.040 are determined by how economic institutions
01:50:11.000 are structured by their interest groups
01:50:13.680 and vice versa.
01:50:15.140 That's an interesting way of looking at it.
01:50:17.680 It goes on,
01:50:18.220 In Marxist parlance, moral depreciation describes how machinery and other fixed capital
01:50:23.900 loses exchange value as of ages.
01:50:27.880 Marx warned that this occurs irrespective of the actual use value of the equipment.
01:50:32.740 Indeed, this often constitutes an inefficiency in capitalist production.
01:50:37.260 This other guy named Rumistev, however, warned that in avoiding these problems,
01:50:40.980 the USSR instead incentivized its enterprises to consider only physical depreciation or the
01:50:47.520 complete breakdown of equipment. Because they could not amortize obsolescence, enterprises
01:50:52.180 had no incentive to replace their equipment. At best, they ran older and newer technologies in
01:50:57.640 parallel. The problem was that Soviet economists had denied the importance of technical obsolescence
01:51:02.580 by arguing that because the state controlled the operation of the law of value within the
01:51:07.080 industrial sector no discount rate on the cost of capital existed this is so insane like to hear 0.88
01:51:13.400 that set out loud as a as a government policy the number of retards in a chain that had to be there 1.00
01:51:19.880 is unbelievable to me that's wild i'm glad you're fired up about this because sometimes as i'm 0.98
01:51:26.640 reading like it's one of those things where it makes sense as you're reading but i'm like does
01:51:30.060 this track if it's read aloud but it's i know i know you're very economically minded
01:51:35.680 insane yeah um we we don't need we don't need to discount obsolescence it doesn't matter that
01:51:41.240 the machine is less efficient we control value we can just sticker it we can just sticker it and say
01:51:45.540 that 10 is here and 10 is here they're the same don't worry about it it's fine and this is this
01:51:49.660 is what he was saying um like within the soviet union it was very difficult to even bring this up
01:51:54.940 because many people believe that they basically solved economics right we don't need to worry
01:52:00.920 about that we control the value we can just we need something we make it so and then of course
01:52:07.160 that translates down the chain is making the shittiest version of something or takes too long
01:52:11.660 or it's inefficient of course but but they they created this environment where like what do you
01:52:17.920 mean we need to still talk about economics you can't even be researched why would you even
01:52:22.460 research this stuff we obviously are going to win that that quote from marx too that there is a that
01:52:29.740 there's a an inefficiency in capitalist economies where they they discount old equipment even though
01:52:36.220 the equipment hasn't changed and it's like i know people say like oh marx is marx as much as he's
01:52:42.480 wrong he's a very intelligent man we can learn a lot from i still don't think so i do think marx
01:52:46.820 was genuinely a stupid stupid man who knew very little about what he was writing about and people
01:52:52.380 are looking at some of the outcomes and saying that maybe we need to listen to him marx was dumb
01:52:57.380 that is a dumb thing to say and he should be embarrassed for saying that to me it's very
01:53:03.040 difficult and i'm probably showing my bias here because like yourself we we work in business we've
01:53:10.700 started businesses we work very close to businesses i noticed that a lot of economists have never
01:53:15.680 started a business and i also noticed that yeah so with with marx like the things that i've liked
01:53:22.700 about marks in the past are almost philosophical but when he talks about like actual cases of how
01:53:29.440 businesses yeah he starts talking about like capital expenditure in permanent equipment
01:53:33.600 and the fact that we don't discount it when it becomes obsolete like if you have a if you have
01:53:38.500 a hand saw and you don't discount that when the advent of the skill saw like you literally will
01:53:44.840 lose everything you will be bankrupt in 18 months i i don't know your hands you throw it away throw
01:53:50.680 it away if you want to talk about economics seriously you should have started your own
01:53:55.820 business or at least gotten your hands dirty with that it's like these people who've got very strong
01:54:00.120 opinions about for example a male form or something but they don't work out right right
01:54:05.580 why are you why are you talking about it like you don't like you at some point you need to walk the
01:54:11.140 walk or people who have very strong opinions about how to raise a kid but they they don't have any
01:54:16.820 kids well you just i i know it's not that you can't have an opinion about anything but i'm like
01:54:22.980 you have to know that if you're trying to put yourself out there as an authority on it if you
01:54:27.840 haven't done it then you're going to be wrong like you it's it's going to get too theoretical
01:54:34.660 yeah and and marx is about what you would expect for a guy who never held a real job
01:54:38.860 lived at other people's you know charity and was a fat lecherous piece of shit and died young
01:54:45.540 like of course there's somebody like that would write something like this it makes another even
01:54:50.540 more um immediate salient example would be the the man who's never experienced war talking about war
01:54:59.860 you know and that's why bringing up this example like someone like adolf hitler who served in the
01:55:07.000 first world war and when you hear these guys even someone like hitler who's supposed to be the most
01:55:11.860 bloodthirsty man in the world you hear them talk and they don't speak about like the glory of war
01:55:17.480 not really they they understand that war was hell and it was it was treacherous and it was sick and
01:55:24.320 it's not something you should take lightly however i find that the people who've never experienced
01:55:29.540 war or really any conflict firsthand they're the first to talk romantically about the beauty of
01:55:36.160 war they start talking about this like silly shit you know what i mean or it's like or you
01:55:41.020 I mean, like Yukio Mishima, like you're not a warrior.
01:55:44.460 In fact, you were given the opportunity to be a warrior and you chickened out.
01:55:48.840 You're a coward.
01:55:49.740 You spent your whole life being a dilettante idiot, just lifting weights and lounging around and talking about how the cool. 1.00
01:55:58.140 And having gay sex. 1.00
01:55:59.080 And being a gay Asian man who's not good at martial arts.
01:56:04.560 I'm still blown away that there are people in our sphere who have respect for Mishima.
01:56:09.280 i cannot understand it for me it's a huge red flag i don't even really like interacting with 1.00
01:56:14.100 people who are like mishima heads because it's you like a sorry you like a gay japanese man 0.99
01:56:19.540 come on what was his contribution again yeah fucking gay suicide all right apparently they 0.99
01:56:26.120 say his plays are good i'll take your word for it but i'm like there's oh no he was oh a gay 0.98
01:56:31.400 suicide playwright oh i'm sorry no huge hey pal so i got shakespeare i'm good i've seen enough 0.93
01:56:39.820 plays i think you had death shakespeare death of a salesman i'm good i don't need it's the same
01:56:48.080 like people talk about mishma and it's kind of like people talk about star wars and it's like 0.96
01:56:52.740 i'm look i'm trying to be there with you but you're fucking gay dude it's like my wife my 0.95
01:56:58.000 wife's never seen star wars and i'm like do you even want to see like the first one the one people 1.00
01:57:02.780 like she's like no i don't want to i can't it's stupid like it's been i have no interest fuck you 0.93
01:57:08.280 i'm like i don't even want to watch it but i'm like i think you should kind of know what it is 0.97
01:57:12.520 she doesn't want to do it nope it dies with you it dies with this generation 0.90
01:57:18.240 hopefully it dies with me it's like it's good once you're dead dimes we're not doing this 0.89
01:57:25.680 Skywalker shit anymore. 0.98
01:57:29.060 We can't keep doing Skywalker.
01:57:31.180 I can't keep hearing the
01:57:32.380 like that means anything
01:57:36.760 in this culture.
01:57:40.640 Sorry, I'm going to try
01:57:41.540 and cover as much as I know
01:57:42.400 we've got to get going soon,
01:57:43.180 but I want to give it to you.
01:57:43.760 It says,
01:57:44.480 as economics moved
01:57:45.620 from a purely theoretical discipline
01:57:47.440 to one that aspired to application
01:57:49.800 and political influence,
01:57:51.480 a variety of theories of value
01:57:53.040 and price emerged.
01:57:54.220 I categorized them
01:57:55.340 into four broad groups. First is the traditionalist school of thought, and this is what was operating
01:58:00.220 in the Soviet Union at the time. The traditional school of thought, which argued for the continued
01:58:04.460 subsumption of price under the state's development goals. Second are the Tovarniks. These are
01:58:11.020 commodity production advocates who, while embracing traditionalist Marxian methodology, reject
01:58:15.800 the ability of the state plan to fully dominate commodity relationships.
01:58:19.840 and who call for pricing through free monetary commodity relations.
01:58:29.120 Third is the cost of production school,
01:58:32.140 which wished for a fixed cost on capital across the USSR
01:58:35.500 and the use of markets for goods distribution.
01:58:38.820 So, again, you've got these different versions
01:58:41.060 who are more accepting of free markets
01:58:43.440 or understand that you need free markets
01:58:46.060 or you need freedom in some sense.
01:58:48.760 Finally, there's the mathematical economists
01:58:50.880 who adopted a marginalist theory of the cost of capital
01:58:53.780 but also fully believed that the state should plan through prices
01:58:56.620 by sending them scientifically to match supply and demand.
01:59:00.280 I like what you were talking about before,
01:59:01.600 about really what we're talking about is how money moves.
01:59:05.360 And there's this very simple belief in Marxist ideology
01:59:08.700 that we don't need any of that anymore.
01:59:10.260 We control the means of production.
01:59:12.720 We can control value.
01:59:14.100 We control everything.
01:59:15.660 Whereas the people who are actually paying attention
01:59:17.780 like no well if you just think that these these externalities become clear and things don't
01:59:25.300 operate the way you think and so we need something these markets will emerge no matter what so we
01:59:31.060 must account for them in some sense and there was an internal denial of that because that seemed like
01:59:38.260 just capitalist i think you actually just hit on it when you say the market the markets will emerge
01:59:43.140 in some sense just people who don't understand what a market is the market the market is like
01:59:48.100 air like the market is just people's desires so if you say we can control we don't need the market
01:59:53.060 oh so you don't need human desires you're going to replace us all with robots that would be
01:59:56.660 the execution of we're removing the market the market is always there and if you try to paper
02:00:01.220 over it it becomes a black market but the market is like it it's a function of human civilization
02:00:07.540 it is even if there's no money there's always a market there's always a market and it gets into
02:00:12.580 to Khrushchev here, and it says, increased interest over time, this is what we're talking
02:00:16.500 about, increased interest in foreign economic research was buttressed by Khrushchev's directive
02:00:20.700 to, quote, catch up and overtake. So internally, they're admitting, like, okay, we've fallen behind,
02:00:26.400 we must catch up, so we must make compromises, of course. Peaceful socioeconomic competition
02:00:31.540 allowed for more engagement with foreign ideas, since it was necessary to understand what the
02:00:36.720 USSR was competing with. Okay, now we must, we used to never engage with capitalist ideas,
02:00:42.120 western ideas and now we must just to understand the enemy within a discussion began over how to
02:00:49.520 understand the information coming out of the west the problem was that despite having a great deal
02:00:54.100 of statistics there was still no consensus on how to use them to predict the course of capitalism
02:00:59.760 towards the crisis that would surely come because remember it's very it's integral to marxism that
02:01:06.320 capitalism will enter a state of crisis that will destroy itself inevitably.
02:01:11.560 This interplay between the Cold War, international influence, and pre-existing
02:01:15.500 political and methodological differences created a tense atmosphere within economics.
02:01:21.180 New methods coming from econometrics and neoclassical economics were threatening to
02:01:26.640 erase the uniqueness of Soviet economic thought. Moreover, in Eastern Europe, the emergence of
02:01:32.700 national communism spawned a new approach to planning that were abandoning
02:01:37.560 Stalinist dogma. So all across the board, all across this expanded empire, people
02:01:43.360 are just distancing themselves from communism similarly to the West where
02:01:47.980 people were kind of distancing themselves intellectually from strict
02:01:51.320 capitalism or libertarian economics into this new thing that had to
02:01:56.640 account for the new economic
02:01:58.640 stage that the world was in. 0.82
02:02:02.920 The Soviet Union was
02:02:04.680 not the only country to have faced the dilemma
02:02:06.800 of misbalanced economic growth.
02:02:09.220 Many developing economies have
02:02:10.660 used an investment-heavy approach
02:02:12.500 funded by the repression of consumption
02:02:14.740 to form the capital needed to industrialize.
02:02:17.760 The initial effects
02:02:18.660 of investment-led growth have led to
02:02:20.440 rapid development. High investment
02:02:22.380 creates large returns in a society with low
02:02:24.540 capacity and large pools of
02:02:26.500 underutilized labor a society like the ussr before the 1950s being the one example however at some
02:02:33.000 point the quick catch of growth entailed by an investment-led strategy begins to have falling
02:02:37.760 returns leading to what economists call a middle income trap which we discussed before in which
02:02:43.400 the economy begins to stagnate as the labor surplus diminishes and the output gap closes
02:02:50.460 the gains from rapid industrialization diminish.
02:02:54.420 Now you can imagine the excitement and the momentum of the Soviet project
02:02:58.800 as it's growing, it's expanding, the output's increasing, the wealth is increasing,
02:03:04.760 and this happens in every economy.
02:03:06.140 So many different economies around the world have gone through this
02:03:08.800 as they maybe move from third world to second world, second world to first world countries.
02:03:13.440 But eventually you do hit that trap.
02:03:15.880 this is actually what happened in japan and we discussed this with princes of the yen which is
02:03:20.380 one of my favorite books that we covered but they you know in princes of the yen it's so fascinating
02:03:25.480 because they had such a rapid industrialization after world war ii and there's many reasons why
02:03:32.520 that was because they weren't actually being dominated by america they're kind of left to
02:03:36.080 their own devices but there's that time in the 90s i would talk about where japan decided to shift
02:03:42.380 they seemed like they almost had like a perfect dynastic fascist government in a sense or a
02:03:49.000 corporatist government which many fascists like but then it just shifted to this consumer-based
02:03:55.220 outward-facing international trade obsessed economy right and we as we read the book
02:04:03.520 it was unclear why they did that and you're saying well it must have been some corrupting
02:04:09.180 forces within the economy or maybe it's leftist subversion and i read this book and i just think
02:04:15.580 they're hitting the middle income trap or they were understanding that you actually can't just
02:04:22.220 industrialize like ride that industrial expansion growth to infinity you eventually hit a ceiling
02:04:30.240 where you need and this is the unfortunate you need to actually be exporting more stuff you need
02:04:36.420 you need the marketplace you can't just produce everything yourself if you want to keep that
02:04:40.820 growth going you need to start exporting and importing and having some place to put the money
02:04:45.540 and become this other economy which is what happened in japan and it's described by richard
02:04:51.440 werner as maybe conspiratorial and i'm sure it is but it's conspiratorial in the same that these all
02:04:58.000 are because the economy is really it's not driven just by trade it's driven by like banks and the
02:05:03.960 government and oligarchies and you know i mean like it's the economy is driven by like the the
02:05:10.400 consumer market is just one aspect of it anyway i need to keep going to get through this it says
02:05:16.600 instead of high growth the low level of domestic consumption leads to over capacity in producer
02:05:21.600 goods industries accompanied by slowing growth there's several ways for a country to get out of
02:05:26.920 this situation one way is to find export markets for its goods thereby importing demand which the
02:05:32.880 USSR largely lacked, which is, in my opinion, what Japan lacked as well, until it didn't.
02:05:38.980 Another way is to try and innovate and increase the productivity in key sectors by decreasing
02:05:43.200 overhead costs such as labor. One country can rebalance moving away from investment as a source
02:05:48.560 of growth and towards a more consumer-based society. The economy that Stalin's successors 0.85
02:05:54.120 inherited was already showing strains from these imbalances and inefficiencies. And that's what was
02:05:59.880 causing them to try and change the economy from within. And it continues on here, describing in
02:06:06.160 more detail, says, as households found more and more cash in their hands, they had three options
02:06:10.380 with what to do with it. First, they could spend it on goods. But since the supply of consumer goods
02:06:14.900 did not respond to increases in consumer demand by the nature of the Soviet system, they rejected
02:06:20.720 that entirely. Immediate spending was not always a viable option. Second, they could deposit the
02:06:26.200 savings at the state savings bank or invest them in state bonds, thereby allowing some of the
02:06:31.500 excess cash to re-enter the budget. However, exceedingly low real interest rates, distrust of
02:06:37.740 authorities, and the fact that in a shortage economy, the appearance of goods on markets
02:06:42.900 necessitated immediate access to physical cash meant that they were not particularly attractive
02:06:46.980 choices either. Thus, Soviet households chose the third option, which is hoarding cash. 0.51
02:06:53.060 So it's not only there is no consumer market here, but it's also we don't trust the banks, we don't trust the system, and we might need this money. 0.67
02:07:01.340 So you actually kind of see that mirrored in our society now.
02:07:04.840 We're trying to hold into every single thing we can because we don't trust any of this shit.
02:07:10.140 It says,
02:07:10.860 If the USSR maintained an economic structure that emphasized the production of heavy goods at the expense of the consumer, any profitable action by the individual enterprise would be offset by the fact that the additional wages generated by the bonus system would not be complemented by an increase of goods in the market.
02:07:27.220 Thus, any gain in productivity would result not in new profits, but in excess consumer demand.
02:07:34.080 Without a major shift in distribution through equity transfers or price reforms,
02:07:37.920 the Soviet Union was still stuck in a situation where the state was issuing more cash than there were available goods.
02:07:45.020 These macroeconomic factors created bottlenecks in the labor market.
02:07:49.380 And there's one report by the American State Department by a guy named Bundy.
02:07:53.360 This is what I was talking about earlier.
02:07:54.380 He says, the report brings up several possible interpretations.
02:07:58.340 One can immediately deduce a connection between Bundy's anecdote and the growing salience of what he calls convergence theory, an increasingly popular theory in American social science in the 1960s,
02:08:09.980 which postulated that the increased complexity of industrial societies will lead to the differences between socialism and capitalism becoming irrelevant as both societies became dominated by technocratic managerial elites.
02:08:23.720 sound familiar. While this theory might have some merits on the US side, it's far more difficult to
02:08:28.220 evaluate the Soviet side. Instead of competing, the two superpowers would coexist in their
02:08:33.480 respective positions and increasingly reorganize themselves as subject to the same global trends.
02:08:40.300 In this historiographic interpretation, detente is a fundamentally conservative problem that
02:08:45.220 emerged as a backlash to the turbulence of the 60s. So I'm very friendly to the convergence
02:08:51.560 theory and i think that's more or less what happened some people will blame that as sort
02:08:56.880 of like an american liberal idea but i don't i don't think the development of technology
02:09:04.140 necessarily rests rests on liberalism in this if we consider that even anti-liberal
02:09:10.900 civilizations have had to do the same thing from a non-liberal perspective you see what i'm saying
02:09:18.340 like it's almost it's a goal unto itself and you could be a liberal or an anti-liberal or
02:09:22.980 you could probably be fucking islamic if you wanted to do you know i mean but
02:09:26.080 it's like its own thing but that the scientific revolution itself becomes the dominant force in
02:09:34.140 society outside of either of those ideologies um anyway we need to get going soon i think we've
02:09:41.260 gone on long enough what do you think about that so uh hilarious man it's a riot
02:09:47.100 yeah um oh just one last thing here so i just want to talk a bit about gorbachev in 1985
02:09:56.700 gorbachev ascended to the position of general secretary in the april 1985 party plenum instead
02:10:02.940 of declaring an agenda on the scientific technical revolution announced gorbachev's program of
02:10:08.060 acceleration at its core the program aimed to channel substantial investment towards retooling
02:10:13.420 enterprises in value-added sectors um both conservative and liberal commentators have
02:10:21.580 criticized gorbachev for emphasizing a boost to investment in the machine tools industry rather
02:10:26.220 than liberalizing prices and ownership rights and consumer goods facing industries and agriculture
02:10:35.820 oh this one last part here sorry the growing interest in western management theory represented
02:10:41.900 a shift in Soviet, quote, mathematical economics away from cybernetics and metaphor of the economy
02:10:48.380 as an information processor. In the new variant, the economy itself became a subsystem of a larger
02:10:54.540 social system and its productive institutions, black boxes that could self-organize based on
02:10:59.980 a loose set of parameters. The implication, as Milner explained in a 1970 report, was that reforms
02:11:06.440 in the machinery of planning, not investments in more powerful computational systems, were the key
02:11:11.540 to improving the economy.
02:11:12.900 This systems approach developed out of the same concerns
02:11:15.660 for long-term social and technological planning.
02:11:18.920 A common refrain, I love that,
02:11:21.620 this is the best part to end on, I love this part,
02:11:23.680 a common refrain of the Soviet intellectuals
02:11:26.600 between the 70s and 90s was their hope to, quote,
02:11:29.820 live in a normal country.
02:11:35.520 These words are revealing, 0.84
02:11:37.180 making the Soviet Union normal speaks to the specific zeitgeist
02:11:40.920 that had developed since the 1970s
02:11:43.100 and this is one of the many
02:11:44.840 Soviet-era mantras that you'd hear
02:11:46.920 about, but it's like, you understand
02:11:48.780 that you're abnormal, there's a desire
02:11:51.000 to exit this
02:11:53.080 sort of house of mirrors
02:11:54.340 you're locked in and just say
02:11:56.260 can we have more money
02:11:58.580 can this make sense
02:12:00.320 you know, and you just hear
02:12:02.740 stories that all the time come from like Soviet
02:12:04.680 bloc countries where, you know, it was another
02:12:06.740 one, oh, we pretend to go to work
02:12:08.940 and they pretend to pay us
02:12:10.100 like I was saying at the top, the cynicism
02:12:12.540 by this point, the cynicism
02:12:14.020 had seen so deeply
02:12:15.800 in the populace that
02:12:17.620 by the time Gorbachev is there, no one
02:12:20.240 fucking believes in this anymore
02:12:21.800 and the system itself had
02:12:24.140 not so much been rotted
02:12:25.720 but rather the system
02:12:28.080 itself was the rotted ruin
02:12:29.820 and there's things that were emerging
02:12:31.880 from within it that were actually vibrant
02:12:34.060 and lively and they were coming from
02:12:35.860 the Soviet citizenry
02:12:38.160 whereas this entire 1.00
02:12:39.720 They built a big fucking ruin. 0.89
02:12:41.680 That's the title, Building a Ruin.
02:12:43.160 The entire system was dead on arrival,
02:12:46.240 and anything that survived was negotiated within the system
02:12:50.200 very cunningly or very cynically.
02:12:53.240 Anyway, so that's enough for now,
02:12:55.660 and we're going to keep going down this track, people,
02:12:57.580 so buckle up.
02:12:59.240 All right, thanks so much for doing this.
02:13:01.320 Thanks for sticking with me.
02:13:02.140 It's a bit long.
02:13:02.620 No worries, man.
02:13:03.140 Anyway, thanks.
02:13:04.320 I'll talk to you later.
02:13:04.860 for people who don't know you i've mentioned you a few times in our community
02:13:24.100 and on x i'm here with joe clark friend of the show joe clark of joeclark.org
02:13:31.780 where he's got a rich library of articles and our relationship i guess you can call it that
02:13:40.120 was i received an email from you out of the blue on march 14th 2023 i'm looking at it right now
02:13:48.840 and uh you did something which would become a trend throughout our communications which is
02:13:56.120 you're just tearing a strip off of me no i deny this no no no no no no that's what i
02:14:02.520 say at the start i appreciate it no no no no you you you your vile column these uh must start early
02:14:10.360 on in this in this episode the problem was instead of using proper chapter markers in your um audio 0.50
02:14:18.520 podcast which are pain in the ass to um implement even though they've been part of the mp3 spec
02:14:24.120 since the mp3 spec was invented you simply in the show notes um note note a time stamp 0.71
02:14:30.880 where different um points of interest occur in the audio recording the problem is unbeknownst to you
02:14:37.420 the there you would have no cause to know this this is this is extraordinarily technical
02:14:44.740 the show notes of a podcast are double encoded html inside xml so you actually have to know
02:14:53.140 that what you think is visible white space
02:14:56.800 when you're composing these things
02:14:58.560 won't necessarily translate
02:14:59.960 into the ultimate published RSS feed.
02:15:04.040 So to hack around this,
02:15:05.860 you put extra carriage returns around things
02:15:07.920 so that they won't run together.
02:15:10.200 So what I told you to do was
02:15:11.600 add at least one more carriage return
02:15:14.040 in front of each of those timestamps
02:15:16.360 that you have in the show notes,
02:15:17.920 because otherwise they run together
02:15:19.040 and become unusable.
02:15:20.320 And I told you to do that 0.98
02:15:21.100 even if N greater than two, 1.00
02:15:22.880 if you end up with three of them
02:15:23.940 because of the complex rules about white space collapse.
02:15:27.520 So I was giving you a technical tip
02:15:30.760 which you had no way to know about.
02:15:33.040 You couldn't even know it was happening
02:15:34.720 and you would have no way to fix it
02:15:36.740 and you wouldn't have anyone to ask either.
02:15:39.340 This is good because this is kind of a crash course
02:15:42.300 in Joe Cluck and I appreciate this.
02:15:44.540 And you said as much in the email.
02:15:47.220 Now, sometimes I'll get emails or messages
02:15:50.680 criticizing the show.
02:15:51.680 it's usually go fuck yourself die for having background music things like that but when i 0.77
02:15:58.040 heard from joe he said here's a problem here's a very detailed solution uh you ate twice press 0.82
02:16:05.500 return twice it's not a detail listen to me listen to me now i'm kissing the microphone
02:16:09.020 i got told myself i wouldn't get upset here we are two minutes in now the very detailed so i
02:16:14.220 have to say that with a granite the very detailed solution is press extra carriage returns and and
02:16:19.140 that's what i did ever since and every so often maybe every few months you would have a note and
02:16:25.620 the reason i bring this up is because you have published some very fascinating articles um i
02:16:30.540 think you started a sub stack not too long ago really taking certain content creators to task
02:16:36.840 for and we'll get to this in a second your background in uh design and whatnot but taking
02:16:42.320 them a task for uh scandals against design uh abominations against beauty type of no typography
02:16:50.320 and copy editing so essentially editing the editing the words they produce which is copy
02:16:55.280 editing right and typesetting them which is type so type and copy so not not just the the grand
02:17:01.200 graphic design of the sort of thing where if you're sitting on the couch and your partner in
02:17:05.900 crime is sitting on the la zed boy the lazy boy over there you hold the thing up and he can discern
02:17:10.820 the design of it, that sort of graphic design from a distance. That wasn't really what I was
02:17:15.240 discussing. I was discussing what I believe your cohort, they would call the minutiae of type and
02:17:24.880 copy. And unfortunately, conservatives are terrible at this. It's left-wingers who are any good at this
02:17:33.180 at all because of the different nature of the left-wing and right-wing brains. So I was explaining,
02:17:40.100 not for the first time, that since the dissident right or the alt-right or the anti-progressives,
02:17:48.500 use any term you wish, I don't wish to misgender you, I'll respect your pronouns,
02:17:54.580 have devolved into a microcosm, a binary star system of Twitter and Substack, right? All they 0.85
02:18:06.920 do day in day out is tweet and sub stack which is now a verb apparently right verbing weirds
02:18:12.940 English Calvin and Hobbes right so but they're they're no they're no good at this because they
02:18:17.540 have no skills their skills are typing only the characters visible on their keyboards and printed
02:18:22.680 on the keyboards into text boxes in a browser that's the alpha and omega of their skills and
02:18:28.700 if you ask them to type set an alpha or an omega they wouldn't be able to now if I can just call
02:18:34.160 attention to a fascinating piece that i believe i i linked this on x i don't think i reviewed it in
02:18:40.320 full but i very well might um it's this great piece titled simply conservatives cannot design
02:18:45.920 yes and i think it's at blog.fani.org well just update it over time well yes joeclark.org
02:18:52.480 slash design or slash conservative design will bring you to that because i know how to
02:18:57.600 make a 301 http 301 line in my hd access file so i can make that work so just joeclark.org
02:19:03.520 slash design or slash conservative design role and there's lots of examples in there of book covers
02:19:09.460 magazines i know man's world gets a mention um so if you would just go into that a little bit
02:19:15.120 because i find this stuff i have an interest in design as i'm sure you have to certain i'm an
02:19:20.680 amateur um i'm just a passionate fool but uh i know you come at this from it actually maybe a
02:19:27.320 better way to start would be can we go into your background tell us tell us a bit about yourself
02:19:31.940 for the folks at home right well sadly i grew up in new brunswick and while the acadian kids
02:19:40.620 were out sniffing glue and shoplifting which unfortunately i also did once but i repented
02:19:45.800 of that i was reading you know pouring over that's p-o-r-i-n-g over letter set catalogs and
02:19:52.920 the obscure typography publications that were available in the early 80s so to to say this
02:20:00.440 made me um a sort of john waters figure with uh oddball enthusiasms would be an understatement
02:20:07.500 but the the the life cycle of the alter gay is to have enthusiasms that are ultimately squashed
02:20:13.480 but here we are now uh the other this is like like giving like giving bar to label maker i had
02:20:20.800 a manual typewriter when i was 15 years old which camouflaged my age which would enable me to write
02:20:25.820 letters right i received that i just made my first mistake because i said i said listen because i
02:20:32.380 said two homonyms are right in the same in the same sentence it would enable me to send missives
02:20:38.140 send missives um and get myself in all sorts of trouble like um complaining to the irving owned
02:20:46.300 newspaper the monkton times transcript times and transcript at the time that they hadn't uh updated
02:20:51.660 their typography since 1929, and they phoned me up and learned that I was a high school student,
02:20:56.340 and they literally said to me on the phone, we thought you knew something about this.
02:21:00.400 Ooh, famous last words. So I was, because I'm a child of the 20th century, where if you were
02:21:09.780 intelligent and curious, you really had to search for information, or you really had to look things
02:21:14.280 up to the point where if you heard an unfamiliar acronym on TV, there was no way to find out
02:21:21.640 the acronym stood for right because where are you going to look this up the encyclopedia what is
02:21:26.920 how is the encyclopedia going to have the expansion of an acronym right but this inculcated
02:21:32.840 in the 20 in the intelligent bookish 20th century uh citizen um the need to go searching for
02:21:39.960 information which meant what one which meant you know i read i read everything at the library i
02:21:45.720 sit there and read through entire stacks of popular science magazines including the the model houses
02:21:50.760 ultimately parodied on the simpsons it's so modern it's ultra modern like living in the
02:21:55.100 not too distant future that's in popular science i went went through a whole cycle of reading all
02:21:59.480 the books about aviation i knew how to file a flight plan all this business right and i read
02:22:03.440 all the books about book design of course but the unexpected side effect of this was in that era
02:22:10.760 because it's a previous century uh publishing was professional wasn't professionalized it was
02:22:16.980 professional, which meant that really only competent people were doing it. And also it was
02:22:22.820 difficult to typeset and publish. At the time I was growing up, there was still metal type.
02:22:27.440 This is before even photo typesetting and later computer typesetting with postscript and so on.
02:22:33.000 So it was actually very difficult and you required knowledge to do it well, which meant that
02:22:38.200 fundamentally everything you read was well edited, including well copy edited and well typeset,
02:22:46.160 because it had to be, because there was no room for just banging shit out in Ariel and
02:22:51.180 sticking it up in the lunchroom at work, right? So this is the contradistinction I would draw
02:22:58.660 between you lovable Nazis and the alternative right, and those of us who grew up in the 0.81
02:23:07.140 really, you're like, I mean, you're like Manx cats. You're just enjoyable pets to have around, 0.93
02:23:12.860 And wonderful conversation pieces when friends come over.
02:23:17.480 You didn't grow up reading Mass's professionally edited copy, whereas we did in the 20th century.
02:23:25.920 Also, in the 20th century, it was surprisingly easy to get a job in publishing.
02:23:29.820 I mean, I started, I had my first article published in 1989.
02:23:33.140 I ended up publishing almost 400 of them.
02:23:35.800 I was a Toronto Star columnist and this sort of thing.
02:23:37.460 but in the present day the democratization of text text is everywhere right um some of your
02:23:46.480 older listeners in other words people your age and you're in your mid early late 30s uh will
02:23:52.820 remember the the think pieces right there's a 20th century genre right there the think piece
02:23:57.800 is saying that the internet is going the internet is going to um will be the death knell of books
02:24:03.540 and the death knell of reading will become a purely an oral culture, right? No, the internet
02:24:09.060 has exposed us to more text than any society has ever had access to in the history of the world
02:24:15.260 by dozens of orders and magnitudes. We have trillions and quadrillions more words available
02:24:20.680 to us than anyone ever has in the history of the world. But the downside of this is since anyone
02:24:25.940 can publish the blogger, capital B or lowercase b, as you wish, manifesto, right? The ethos,
02:24:32.400 anyone can publish that but that means no one has any training and there's no one has to give
02:24:38.080 any training i remember being when being a blogger was new and that seems mind-shattering to some
02:24:44.000 people but i recall when being a blogger was treated as almost a punk rock thing you were i
02:24:49.640 know like musicians were doing it and little journalists were doing it it was kind of exciting
02:24:54.260 in a gonzo way and then this is everyone's going to have a blog it's an online diary and you had
02:24:59.560 these little e-celebs springing up and they're just writing blogs about their lives. I think
02:25:02.940 they eventually mutated into some kind of shit. Well, they all got jobs at the New York Times
02:25:08.920 and they're all, they're all Democrat cutouts. But we, we, we, no, we had not coined the term
02:25:14.120 e-celeb yet, but they were e-celebs. Truly blogging came into its own after 9-11 because
02:25:20.460 war bloggers came into existence, sadly enough, including Andrew Sullivan. We can't get rid of 0.82
02:25:27.320 him. He's immortal. You understand this, right? He's like microplastics. We'll never get rid of
02:25:31.600 Andrew Sullivan. Andrew Sullivan will never be flushed from our systems. But in the war blogging
02:25:36.860 era, everyone and his dog, including lamestream media journalists, had their own blogs discussing
02:25:43.820 the war on terror. But the problem was there was internal dissension, even within it, because this
02:25:53.380 was a conservative issue, a small c conservative issue. There was internal dissension. There's
02:25:58.020 always internal dissension among conservatives, right? Because we don't get the party line for
02:26:01.720 media matters sent along by the secret emails that we know exist, but officially have never
02:26:06.620 been confirmed, right? So there would be blogs commenting on the other blogs to the point where
02:26:14.280 the primary blog about war bloggers was Media Whores Online, because that was essentially
02:26:21.360 war blogger watch but then that wasn't sufficient so someone set up a a watch site for media whores
02:26:27.560 online media whores online watch so now your two levels have removed and we got we got it we got
02:26:32.640 it to four there actually was a blogger uh web blog entitled media whores online watch watch watch
02:26:39.380 which is five levels of meta commentary okay you think you think retweeting is is a sin wait till
02:26:46.400 you get to the turn the clock back to the war bloggers all right so this was using blogger and
02:26:53.280 type pad right the off the shelf um blogging software that you that strictly templated you
02:27:01.480 you had to use a template it was fundamentally impossible to design your own blogger used to be
02:27:07.540 huge unless you wanted to just code your own wordpress and wordpress i recall even didn't
02:27:12.320 exist yet no no no no no wrong wrong wrong no i've known matt mullenweg the creator he created
02:27:18.240 wordpress since he was barely old enough to walk into the bar in austin and this is for real okay 0.55
02:27:23.040 my sites are still hosted by him and he could unplug them at any time so i better not piss
02:27:26.720 him off too much no wordpress didn't exist yet wordpress was created in response to blogger and
02:27:32.080 type pad etc at l uh because and it was open source and allowed you to um design your own
02:27:39.040 blogging does the design is extraordinarily important using the the the wordpress back end
02:27:44.260 which is all written in php if anyone knows about that so your your timeline is not quite correct 0.68
02:27:48.640 there this is why we keep joe clark around he's got to keep me honest well your holocaust
02:27:55.820 revisionism is one thing but your wordpress revisionism is well beyond the pale it's
02:28:00.560 unacceptable did i detect earlier you saying that you bring blood satellite up with your friends
02:28:06.500 when you have company over, true or false?
02:28:08.960 No, that was a thought experiment.
02:28:12.940 It cost you nothing to say yes to you.
02:28:15.440 I was drawing an image for you.
02:28:17.780 Yeah, they love it.
02:28:19.180 They love hearing about Ray Promano.
02:28:22.800 You're assuming I have friends over, so I deny your premises.
02:28:26.440 What is your next question, Dines?
02:28:27.820 Well, anyway, no, getting back to me.
02:28:29.820 So I have a journalism background.
02:28:32.940 Unfortunately, I also have a degree in linguistics
02:28:35.000 and a diploma in engineering which is absolutely useless and fundamentally the the core issue is i
02:28:41.180 come from the 20th century when knowledge was difficult and i had the the mindset which is
02:28:45.640 very common at the time certainly true among the fellows who would be going to come you know those
02:28:49.760 those special boys right um it would be very very very um high verbal iq as um i believe your your
02:28:56.960 friends like to say or very word focused right but unexpectedly i also have um an interest in
02:29:03.620 visual design not so much painting and visual art i have reasonable knowledge i can get a lot of the
02:29:09.060 questions on jeopardy on that but in any event so just as i had an unusual combined humanities and
02:29:15.840 technical education with the pedlan diploma in engineering and the degree in linguistics
02:29:19.860 and also although i'm very word focused i'm highly visual as well i'm sort of like camille
02:29:24.980 paulia right she has more of a male brain than i do god love her uh but this is this is this is a
02:29:31.220 combination you don't get very much these days whether the um the the word-oriented person who
02:29:36.800 really enjoys and can talk about and can interpret visual things so you think that's rare it would
02:29:43.780 be rare for a verbal iq type person to have and i think i've seen that i think i've seen a lot of
02:29:50.720 the writers that i know and people take writing very seriously they have very little patience
02:29:55.260 even for film or art.
02:29:57.780 They seem to engage with art
02:29:59.140 in a very ideological or historical way.
02:30:07.460 The inability to discriminate
02:30:09.900 in the most Catholic lowercase sense
02:30:13.600 is what we're talking about here.
02:30:17.100 These are the classic absent-minded professors
02:30:21.000 rumpled with the voluminous beards.
02:30:23.900 They're all men, of course.
02:30:25.260 They're rumbled with the voluminous beards. 1.00
02:30:28.300 They're, we would now call them autists. 0.95
02:30:31.240 They really merely have male specialization.
02:30:33.860 They can tell you everything about, you know, paleontology.
02:30:37.040 You know, this bone fragment is 2 million years old, even of course, even though, of
02:30:42.260 course, the earth is only 5,999 years old.
02:30:45.080 They can tell you all about that, but they've never ironed a shirt, right?
02:30:49.700 To, again, make a Simpsons reference, we're up to three.
02:30:51.880 To paraphrase Mo, I always wanted to see Paris, but wearing a shirt that was iron,
02:30:56.120 that'd be pretty sweet. So they can't even, they don't even have enough visual self-awareness to
02:31:00.660 understand how well they present to the outside world. And you've experienced this, you've been
02:31:06.160 in Toronto, you've been on the subway in Toronto. The way the biomass presents itself, it's quite
02:31:12.800 shocking, isn't it? And there's been a massive, massive fall off in the general presentation of
02:31:19.480 the biomass since the covid aids a couple of years ago people don't even try anymore right
02:31:25.620 and and all these things are are of a piece i sound old i understand this when i complain
02:31:32.460 about everyone wearing sweatpants now but it's become unignorable
02:31:36.900 well okay uh i even get of course i get a bug
02:31:44.300 up my backside about this but with uh dudes showing up um at church at you know at catholic
02:31:51.740 mass i know it's the novus ordo but in literal t-shirt and jeans can you try a bit harder and
02:31:56.400 you're bringing your girlfriend isn't she telling you how to dress right so these things are all
02:32:01.320 of these this someone who doesn't have enough visual self um awareness to present well to the
02:32:06.200 outside world obviously could not um tell you about this particular bit of graphic design even
02:32:12.560 this famous bit of artwork right and certainly couldn't um uh realize that what they're writing
02:32:20.080 needs to be edited by someone needs to be typeset by someone because of course i'm not suggesting
02:32:24.400 that um all you adorable manx cat nazis um should have the kind of skills i have it's like that's
02:32:31.600 that that ship has sailed i've come from the previous century but you have to have some
02:32:35.920 understanding that you need to have editors and you need to have typesetters and you need to have
02:32:40.800 designers and this brings us on to the next point which i've basically taken over your show now dimes
02:32:47.680 well let me just if i can just add to that last point that's something that i've maintained for
02:32:51.120 quite some time and i know there's a lot of people in amateur writing circles especially on our side
02:32:56.720 that see the title editor as more of just a status you just have it because you started a place that
02:33:04.720 publishes something could be something whatever yeah exactly but to me and i'm not saying i
02:33:09.520 accomplish this 10 times out of 10 but i take editors very seriously and i remember when i was
02:33:14.240 publishing my book of short fiction i i paid i commissioned a couple of editors actually
02:33:20.640 um to look at it to rewrite it to give me notes and i had to have a sense for when you know the
02:33:26.560 more brutal they are the better and because i worked i worked in many agencies and i did uh
02:33:32.400 writing in various capacities and i work with people who are you're getting your work slashed
02:33:38.560 apart every single day so you need a thick skin right you can't take anything personally and so
02:33:43.680 after many many years i don't take any of it personally just tell me if it sucks i'll get you
02:33:47.600 i'm at draft seven i don't give a let's make a draft 12. whatever well i say there's a lot of
02:33:55.360 people who don't take that seriously well okay um i'm i'm i'm here to tell you that's that's
02:34:01.920 the wrong way to characterize what actually happens. Again, deny your premises. You're not
02:34:07.760 being torn apart. There's no ripped apart, whatever term you use. I've seen the short-term
02:34:13.200 memories going already. There's no emotion attached to this. What you wrote here is factually wrong,
02:34:23.280 that's why we've corrected it, or I'll cross this out and rewrite it for and give you a better way
02:34:28.840 of expressing it this that this it's it's there's no emotional content involved in that i didn't
02:34:34.560 want to make it seem like it was emotional but if this were a body that was coming back to me
02:34:38.500 there would be cuts all over that's just why i meant to tear apart well yes deservedly so well
02:34:43.540 not everyone needs an editor and um not many people produce clean copy i was one of the few
02:34:50.780 who did back in the day. All right. And you're impinging on the 20th century catchphrase,
02:35:02.880 my manuscript came back all bloody. He bloodied my manuscript, this kind of thing, which is
02:35:07.420 exactly what you're saying. When you got your book manuscript back, which you had laser printed
02:35:16.100 it on hp laserjet 2 and work perfect 5.1 which is the best setup that has ever been created to
02:35:21.600 produce text uh it would have all sorts of red and green and blue marks on it this is lampoon
02:35:26.940 in bright lights big city the chief verificationist complains that he uses the wrong color pencil
02:35:31.200 and also let me just say one of the best notes you can get it's very very simple especially if
02:35:35.500 it's in creative writing if the note says i'm bored like you're maybe halfway through the first
02:35:40.580 page i'm bored what's going on why is this happening why is i'm i'm looking at this from
02:35:45.020 someone who hasn't read this story 23 times like the author has. So I'm like, this, this needs to
02:35:51.260 be shortened. This needs to be made more exciting. And sometimes that's really gutting it, but you
02:35:57.560 know, those notes are very important. It's not just saying like, okay, we have to keep the skeleton
02:36:01.720 of this and let's just change what clothes are on. It's like, no, break the bones if you need to,
02:36:07.220 if it makes it better. I would, I would never tell, I would never jot something down on a
02:36:11.980 manuscript along the lines of, I'm bored. That editor needs to be spoken to by a senior editor.
02:36:17.780 That's demoralizing, and it's not your place as an editor, no matter who the hell you are,
02:36:26.600 to act imperiously toward the writer. I will say again, everybody needs an editor,
02:36:33.500 including highly competent writers. I've always had editors. I need editors, et cetera.
02:36:38.380 no i i would um i would like someday put it put me in the same room with the editor who wrote i'm
02:36:46.460 bored on your manuscript and i'd have a good good conversation with them that's uh seriously
02:36:51.240 demoralizing and uh disempowering and is unnecessary i i'm going to send you an email
02:36:57.220 from one editor and i paid for this i paid like a couple hundred dollars for just like a little
02:37:02.240 before it was leading into maybe a bigger job it was just given assessment and it was just
02:37:08.240 a one you know page email but everything was vitriolic everything he at one point said
02:37:14.900 so have you even written before and i'm just like okay so like he was offended that and this is a
02:37:21.420 guy who allegedly had worked you know 25 years in fantasy and science fiction publishing oh well
02:37:27.800 there's your problem uh also of course i should be should tread lightly here because i don't
02:37:32.440 actually edit fiction. I edit severe and complex nonfiction when I edit everything, like editing
02:37:39.620 all the strings in a certain software application and the creator of the software is German. So
02:37:44.900 imagine all the trouble I had on that. In any event, yes, that guy is simply a jerk and is
02:37:51.080 probably burned out. If you have nearly a lifetime's experience of editing nothing but truly
02:38:02.240 amateur copy, you will burn out quickly. There has to be a respite every now and then from
02:38:07.300 someone who actually knows what he's doing. And that apparently that editor had not had such a
02:38:12.200 respite. Well, I'm sorry. I'm legitimately sorry that happened to you. That's not how you deal
02:38:16.640 with copy editing because there is no emotion attached to it. Even when I edited Bill Stumpf's
02:38:24.860 book, that's S-T-U-M-P-F, he co-designed the Aeron chair, which many of you are sitting,
02:38:30.260 and I'm sitting in one right now. Mine is a size C. Thank you very much. And I told him that his
02:38:34.820 book was not publishable. I just said, your book is not publishable. And I gave, I edited the whole
02:38:40.500 thing. Everything, it was, it was the pages were bloody, but the book was not publishable. And
02:38:45.380 time passed. In fact, 20 years passed. And then I literally walked through a bookstore and there
02:38:50.620 was the book published two decades later with none of my edits implemented. So it took him 20
02:38:57.160 years but he got it published but all i said was your book is not publishable what about it was
02:39:02.180 unpublishable if you don't want me asking that was that was a long time ago it's it's actually
02:39:07.740 hard to write a good design book uh even if you even if you've created one of the one of the most
02:39:14.060 iconic one of the most iconic products of the 20th century it's interesting you say that because i
02:39:17.900 got a request just today from someone looking for a good design book it's a very general question
02:39:23.960 graphic design or some other kind of design they kind of made sound like it was both design but
02:39:29.380 also type typography and then maybe some general design it's like someone who just doesn't know
02:39:35.500 much about it so they're like give me a book about what makes things look good well they're
02:39:41.080 two obvious uh beginner books which are from the 90s and are written by germans again with the
02:39:45.920 germans uh we can we can really never get away from the german influence uh can we uh even after
02:39:50.980 the nuremberg right yes um i'm gonna i'm gonna go off on a tangent in a sec but start with these
02:39:59.840 two books from the 90s which are easily gotten for pennies on the used book sites or even
02:40:03.680 you get uh one of them as a creative commons uh version of pdf so you can download it without
02:40:09.760 feeling guilty stop stealing sheep as in you know stop uh removing sheep sheep without
02:40:17.000 the shepherd's permission stop stealing sheep and learn how type works by eric with a k
02:40:24.100 speakerman s-p-i-e-k-e-r-m-a-n-n stop stealing sheep now this is that's a bold a bolderization 0.79
02:40:30.380 of what dwiggins said a man who would uh letter space lowercase would fuck sheep excuse the 0.85
02:40:36.080 vulgarity so it's been bolderized to stop stealing sheep um again excuse the vulgarity um right so 0.73
02:40:42.920 stop stealing sheep you know where you are uh yes i know but i always say excuse the vulgarity it's
02:40:47.720 like saying peace be under him like for muhammad is saying peace be under him i was like forgive 0.56
02:40:51.880 the vulgarity and the next one is branding with type um it doesn't even matter er ginger is one
02:40:56.920 of the names if you remember if you like redheads who among us doesn't remember ginger but stop 0.53
02:41:01.160 stealing sheep and branding with type are two very easy books you can read them in 25 minutes each
02:41:06.600 you blow through them and you're not missing anything right and it gets you started now there
02:41:10.440 there are lots of beginner books about typography and graphic design. Ordinary Googling will come
02:41:16.020 up with some very good options. Basically, every public library in Canada has lots of them. And
02:41:20.900 you can literally go to the branch and they're all in the roughly 742 in the Dewey Decimal
02:41:25.580 System. You just start reading one after another after another. Now, the tangent I'm going to go
02:41:30.580 off on is the genre, which was invented by one lady, and she's the one and only inhabitant of
02:41:37.820 that desert island of graphic design autobiography. We have a Russian-American named Natalia Ilyin,
02:41:45.900 I-L-Y-I-N. And she's written a couple of amazing books about being a designer and a graphic
02:41:53.220 designer, which are graphic design autobiography. If you can find those, Toronto Public Library
02:41:58.620 has them because I made them get them. Natalia Ilyin is, I mean, after you've read the basics
02:42:04.780 and even look through the other ones the readily binged or googled or yandexed books about you
02:42:10.380 know introductions to graphic design and typography okay no problem uh but if once you read natalia
02:42:17.340 ilion this will be a bit of a bit of a palette cleanser because then it uh opens up a new world
02:42:21.820 to you about how one could have um perhaps not a vocation but an avocation in uh design you can
02:42:29.260 learn about design, right? And this is the sort of thing that your audience base would be amenable
02:42:36.840 to because the term we now use, as I mentioned before, is autists, right? Basically, your entire 0.97
02:42:43.480 audience is autist. I prefer the term enthusiast, but it's typography and to a lesser extent, 0.96
02:42:53.000 copy editing, there's a whole other story there, is amenable to this because I know this happens
02:42:58.740 because i've verified it i've sat at john in jonathan heffler's office that's h-o-e-f-l-e-r
02:43:04.140 he and his uh former partner tobias were the one of the um most famous type designers you know
02:43:10.180 featured in documentaries new york times articles about written about them um you know they do custom
02:43:14.820 they did custom fonts for martha stewart he showed me the invoice from martha stewart with
02:43:19.300 literally her initial saying okay on it so i sat in jonathan heffler's office from uh hofler and
02:43:24.160 co heffler heffler heffler h-o-e-f-l-e-r heffler this is the problem with the with the type
02:43:31.060 designers they all have unpronounceable names wait till you get to bengat all right fine i've
02:43:35.300 sat in jonathan heffler's office and had him confirm that this happens he's minding his own
02:43:39.840 business the mailman comes with the postal mail there's a manila envelope with nicely typeset
02:43:44.620 um label and return address label you open it up and there's a nicely typeset letter
02:43:50.000 Dear Mr. Heffler, my name is Jason. I'm a high school student, brackets, senior in Terre Haute, Indiana. I've been interested in typography since I was in middle school, or as we would say in Canada, junior high.
02:44:05.120 I've been examining the typeface that comes standard in Apple products, Heffler Text.
02:44:11.400 And although I recognize that this is your personal interpretation of the Garald family,
02:44:18.420 I believe you have some ahistoricisms in Heffler Text.
02:44:21.840 I hope you don't mind terribly, but I've taken the time to redraw the typeface for you,
02:44:26.220 and I include a sample printout.
02:44:28.880 If I've caused offense, I apologize, but please let me know what you think.
02:44:32.100 Sincerely, Jason Terre Haute, Indiana.
02:44:34.180 and enclosed to be a complete redesign of their typeface by a high schooler. This has literally
02:44:40.300 happened. It's amenable to the specialization-heavy male brain. So once you get started
02:44:49.640 down this path, apart from, you must divorce yourself from the idea that someone's going to
02:44:54.960 tell you that you're, I'm bored by this article, the trauma you experience dimes will not be
02:45:01.520 recapitulated upon your listeners it is it is something you can learn about now the downside
02:45:08.140 here before i let you ask the next question is that um a little knowledge is is truly dangerous
02:45:13.780 it's it takes 10 years to develop an eye for typography and graphic design and even though
02:45:20.000 as i said i'm halfway visually impaired not really only half um i can i can spot errors at a glance
02:45:26.520 just like um experts at um um uh art fraud can glance at something and tell that it's a fake
02:45:33.600 and because we know from thinking fast and slow and there's other you know the the the psychology
02:45:39.340 of the brain and so on right there's the instantaneous uh grokking of of visual materials
02:45:46.800 right but it takes you 10 years to get to the point where you can do that so that's fine just
02:45:51.040 like working out the the time to start is today if you want to learn more about this and why
02:45:55.200 wouldn't you? You can't just sit there scrolling through Twitter all day. It will take a while to
02:46:01.200 develop taste, right? But it's a fruitful territory to annex sort of like the Sudetenland
02:46:10.620 if you're interested in dissident publishing, let's say.
02:46:17.720 Now, that's a very, I'm going to make a note of those books because I really do need to jump
02:46:21.400 more feet first into design theory because i've just taken you know art classes throughout my
02:46:26.920 life and i'm going to ask you a question i'm fairly certain i know the answer to but i'm
02:46:31.400 going to ask it anyway i'm sure you have noticed over the course of your life the font marketplace
02:46:37.240 exploding with amateurs and like go on dafont.com how many thousands of fonts are on there what's
02:46:45.140 your take on that what's your feeling on the popularity of just people designing fonts
02:46:50.920 Well, as greatest living type designer, Matthew Carter, I've been to his house, he was awarded the MacArthur Juniors grant.
02:46:59.380 As pointed out, there are more good type designers now than there ever have been in the history of the world.
02:47:04.380 There are more good typefaces now than there have ever been in the history of the world.
02:47:07.880 A huge number of free typefaces are extraordinarily well-crafted.
02:47:13.100 Basically, anything that comes with an operating system is an extremely well-crafted, well-engineered typeface.
02:47:19.340 even the new Microsoft Office typefaces like Aptos.
02:47:23.040 Aptos is kind of odd historically,
02:47:25.460 but these are very well done typefaces.
02:47:29.040 But the problem is if you're,
02:47:32.360 this is, what is the term you people use?
02:47:35.500 I think the Americans use this,
02:47:36.720 not us proud Canadians,
02:47:38.940 SoundCloud rappers.
02:47:40.280 I don't know what a SoundCloud rapper is.
02:47:42.180 I know this is a phrase.
02:47:43.280 I know this is a term of art used in your sphere, right?
02:47:46.760 So the equivalent of a SoundCloud rapper
02:47:48.380 is kids banging out their own garage fonts,
02:47:53.300 which, by the way,
02:47:54.360 used to be an entire genre in the 1990s
02:47:56.500 and empires were built
02:47:57.880 on the topic of garage fonts.
02:48:01.300 May I recommend everyone look up
02:48:02.900 the design house in Delaware.
02:48:05.840 Yes, the home of Joe Biden
02:48:06.880 and known simply as House Industries.
02:48:09.180 They have an amazing history
02:48:11.920 and incredible books,
02:48:13.760 fantastic, unbelievable books.
02:48:16.000 And they come from the garage fonts era.
02:48:18.380 right? They actually, those kids, those skater kids, half of whom were Hispanics in Delaware,
02:48:26.580 which doesn't make any sense, who grew up in the garage front here with these lousy, you know, 0.79
02:48:30.760 weird, crazy pixel fonts and sort of thing you'd find on a t-shirt, right? Now own the archives to
02:48:36.120 the original 1970s advertising typesetting shop, Photo Lettering Inc., which is where Don Draper
02:48:44.880 on Mad Men would have had all his ads typeset. So they own the archives to that now, which were
02:48:49.160 all physical objects, by the way. So although garage fonts dating back to the 90s was a genre
02:48:54.860 unto itself, and kids are always going to, you know, they're literally going to try this at home.
02:49:01.260 The results are not very good. The young artist in high school writing Jonathan Heffler's scenario
02:49:08.480 I described is, that's the creme de la creme. That's someone who's really putting some effort
02:49:13.800 into it i've never actually looked at dafont.com intentionally i think i've accidentally clicked
02:49:18.680 on it because i don't i don't actually pirate fonts uh but isn't that the source where you
02:49:25.180 simply you that's where you download pirated fonts instead of paying for them it's not pirated a lot
02:49:29.340 of them are just free because what people actually you know some of them are pirated because some of
02:49:33.520 them are made to look like movie posters they can find a font that looks like the sopranos or
02:49:39.180 you know whatever bespoke movie font it would be um then there's just a bunch of kooky stuff you
02:49:45.620 can tell that a designer decided to make their font one day and it's really really over designed
02:49:52.660 it's almost not usable it's like they just tried to no they're definitely not they're not definitely
02:49:57.160 not usable and um these extreme headline or display typefaces have a storied history going
02:50:03.740 back to the 20s. Italian modernism and Italian futurism are fertile grounds for this. Some of
02:50:09.800 the typefaces that are used there, like the ones simply known as STOP, S-T-O-P, are still used
02:50:14.720 today. And you can do wonderful things with them, right? But these are not really designers. These
02:50:19.800 are hobbyists. It's fine. They can do their thing. But we're awash in riches. What is the term?
02:50:31.080 right riches we're washing riches what is the idiom there i'm blanking on the idiom but you
02:50:35.520 you uh touched on something that's uh uh interesting uh because you said the sopranos
02:50:42.000 we're living in an era where um the the um a logotype which is exactly what it sounds it
02:50:51.020 is a logo that is made of typography as opposed to an image right a logotype uh the the the most
02:50:58.600 memorable logotype of the 21st century is something that's happening right right now and
02:51:03.120 it's for the show stranger things the last time something as memorable as this memorable and
02:51:07.920 reproduced and memeable happened was back in the 70s with kiss because literally uh guys would
02:51:14.420 um scratch the kiss logotype into their desks and school right but now of course with you know with
02:51:21.380 the little meme packages and so on i don't even know what the what software the kids use and i'm
02:51:25.400 not supposed to because that's the kids let them do their thing with the software that you've you've
02:51:29.780 seen people um make their own variants of of whatever the hell they're doing making fun of
02:51:35.200 something i don't know wojax i don't know with in in the um design of the stranger things logotype
02:51:42.120 and remember i mentioned that the typeface designers of strange names like bengat
02:51:45.680 that is the typeface known as itc bengat b-e-n-g-u-i-a-t named after the designer
02:51:51.000 so something like like this it becomes it becomes an iconic object like stranger things logotype
02:51:57.320 becomes an iconic object and that's popular culture everyone knows about that everyone
02:52:01.860 can recognize the stranger things logotype and that shade of red it uses right um right and the
02:52:08.560 closest thing that um you edgelords have uh are memes and mega hats but those are objects that's
02:52:15.220 not design that's not typographic design those are objects i dearly love the memes and the mega hats
02:52:20.280 by the way um the the the ones i like best and i don't think ricky vaughn slash douglas mackie
02:52:26.680 was charged for this it's the draft our daughters um hashtag and and visual meme from uh it was it
02:52:33.080 was an ad campaign from from a couple years ago look up the draft our daughters ads those are
02:52:37.800 just fantastic you know you know uh teenage girl at uh at a veteran's cemetery uh laying down next
02:52:45.720 to next to a headstone and and weeping uh her uh her her father died to protect died to protect
02:52:52.840 uh his country now it's her turn draft our daughters this is wonderful stuff wonderful
02:52:57.320 wonderful stuff but the the the design sensibility of the right wing uh is all these is these objects
02:53:03.960 like memes and apu is an object right wojack is an object so the this is comes from the the that's
02:53:13.000 That's the only concrete manifestation of a design sensibility among right-wing people because-
02:53:17.240 And the worse is design, the better if it's done in MS Paint.
02:53:20.700 Yes, absolutely.
02:53:21.340 Absolutely.
02:53:21.780 Yes, yes.
02:53:22.440 And there's an absolute requirement.
02:53:24.360 You must use the font known as Impact.
02:53:26.800 I created one using Berthold Imago, an obscure, grotesque, sans serif typeface.
02:53:34.320 I did the same thing.
02:53:34.960 It was very research.
02:53:35.740 And it didn't work at all.
02:53:36.820 It was bullshit.
02:53:37.520 It was total bullshit. 0.85
02:53:38.160 i've got a thousand fonts in my fucking adobe suite and i tried everything and i eventually 0.82
02:53:43.680 just had to go back to impact because it it didn't work it's mandated yeah but that's because 0.84
02:53:50.840 okay so we let's go back to the first principle why are conservatives lousy at design define
02:53:56.540 conservative any way you wish it's because um conservatives are word people and idea people
02:54:01.980 That's why you're so good at podcasts, YouTube, talk radio, except in Canada, right?
02:54:08.240 You're word people and idea people, right?
02:54:11.920 Which means you can productively come up with huge numbers of neologisms.
02:54:17.220 Like the number of neologisms is incredible, right?
02:54:20.180 Everything from white pill, black pill, red pill, blue pill to moral fagging.
02:54:24.360 There's like, you call it the number of neologisms is astronomical.
02:54:28.980 Yeah, we love to systematize and almost thereby universalize everything. Every instance of humanity becomes this grand system. Everything is indicative of some bigger thing.
02:54:40.280 uh well you it doesn't you don't have to go that far you're just very good at coming up with uh
02:54:46.200 with names for things so much so that i i i can't keep up with them i mean i have my my friend works 0.52
02:54:53.180 on slang dictionaries in the united states of course he's a shit lib what do you expect and
02:54:57.800 he knows he knows a lot of them but not many of them but again this this shows the the the divide
02:55:03.280 though because um nor normie cucks normie cucks have never heard the term black pill or white pill
02:55:10.280 right they don't even know based and cringe and those two those two pairs are the core neologisms
02:55:17.880 of non-progressivism right they've never heard of them but you people were able to effortlessly
02:55:23.920 effortlessly coin those and make them coin of the realm after they were coined right whereas
02:55:29.700 left-wing people go to design school right and they can produce uh beautiful works um my beloved
02:55:37.540 friend michael beirut whose name the new yorker misspelled the new yorker makes mistakes and i
02:55:43.320 spot them thank you very much michael beirut a pentagram yes i should that should have been my
02:55:47.180 first clue that's b-i-e-r-u-t wonderful if you watch the uh documentary simply entitled helvetica
02:55:53.680 why didn't i mention that before watch the documentary helvetica i watched that too i
02:55:57.680 think about the documentary from time to time and they're because i had to explain that even to my
02:56:03.420 wife and other people where it's like Helvetica seems like this very brutalist boring font but
02:56:09.200 the way they described the revolution of thought associated with that sweeping away all the
02:56:15.440 superfluous design and making something just bold and boom and there it is yes and Michael
02:56:20.600 Beirut explains that showing old Coca-Cola ads in 1970s Coca-Cola ads in Helvetica Coke bang it's 0.55
02:56:27.840 the real thing bang drink it and shut up bang all right michael be rude at pentagram designed the
02:56:33.880 hillary campaign which is the capital h with the arrow the crossbar is an arrow right so the the 0.77
02:56:41.000 democrats and the progressives in general have blue chip talent available to them and they produce
02:56:46.520 amazing work right well i mean chippard shippard ferry did that obama poster that despite what
02:56:53.740 anyone thinks of obama that's a very evocative image it's very like that's going to be with us
02:57:00.220 after the memory of everything obama did well yes actually arguably that's that's an that's the
02:57:07.120 the stepping stone between the kiss logotype and the stranger things logotype is the obama hope
02:57:11.780 poster right what is the typeface uh that used through the entire obama campaign and on that
02:57:18.940 poster why yes gotham by jonathan heffler everything comes back it's all circular isn't
02:57:24.240 it there's a direct line by the way um from andre the giant to the shepherd ferry obama poster
02:57:31.560 are you aware of this this lineage was that the um andre the giant has a posse precisely
02:57:37.060 precisely so you see so we we again return to paleontology for our planet that's only 5999
02:57:43.380 99 years old yeah the the in our space of the waters that we swim in it's not very cool to
02:57:49.140 know a lot about street art everyone sees it as degenerate so i have all this it is knowledge
02:57:54.900 well it is but we we can start our own street art so the the the the sequence of steps is
02:58:04.020 we we all remember andre the giant the the wrestler with the pituitary condition there
02:58:08.020 are a couple of documentaries about him highly sympathetic figure right love beloved by all yes
02:58:13.380 So then there became, there came to be these sniped posters, sniping is what you do when
02:58:21.860 you put up the weed pasting, right?
02:58:23.760 These weed pasting or weed pasted sniped posters of Andre the Giant has a posse, right?
02:58:29.400 And then over time, that became its own meme, right?
02:58:33.920 X has a posse.
02:58:34.980 And then there'd be ones, you know, quasi Borg-like images, you know, with one eye as
02:58:39.860 a sort of strange camera that's kind of has a posse, right?
02:58:43.380 And if you look at some of the second and third generation of those, it looks a lot like the Obama Hope poster because Shepard Fairey designed some of the second and third generation versions of the Andre the Giant Has a Posse poster and, you know, we pasted them, sniped them around town.
02:59:02.760 If you put them side by side, especially if you look at the sort of ochre and red and black colored versions of the Obama poster, which is a very good color palette, put them side by side, they're structurally identical.
02:59:16.220 and so there's a direct link between uh crazy kids uh wheat pasting andre the giant has a posse
02:59:23.560 on the streets of i guess new york philadelphia actually on shepherd ferries from i think
02:59:27.800 philadelphia to um uh the graphic design of the presidential campaign for obama i'm glad you
02:59:34.020 brought this up because my background here is that myself and my co-host judas back because
02:59:39.740 we've known each other since high school back around that time and when we were a bit older
02:59:44.120 we used to do graffiti i don't even call it street art because it's not like we were fucking
02:59:48.380 painting murals but we used to go sneak into train yards and just write shits on the side of
02:59:54.280 trains alley okay that's degenerate is what we were trying we were trying to come up with but
02:59:58.880 what i was trying to say was the psychology of someone who would even do this like what does
03:00:03.800 andre the giant have a posse mean why are we doing this because everyone understands the concept of a
03:00:09.540 meme in internet culture is to propagate an idea which is how richard dawkins would define a meme
03:00:15.580 too technically but there's a certain type of person that for seemingly no reason certainly
03:00:22.000 not for profit but just i want to here's the thing i thought of i'm going to paste it on walls i'm
03:00:27.860 going to replicate it and just put it everywhere so people see it and no one's even going to really
03:00:31.780 know it was me and i think the anonymity to is is is very striking but i don't know like there's
03:00:38.640 just something very interesting they're like why do why do we fucking do this but there's a certain
03:00:42.620 type of mind that that seems obvious that you just would well yes but the ones you remember are the
03:00:48.460 ones that are really good slogans Andre the giant has a posse who knows what that precisely means
03:00:53.620 but it really rings true the vegans will spray paint things around town here with a little
03:01:00.780 picture of a cow. And the slogan induces you to say it a certain way, picture of a cow,
03:01:09.440 not your mom, not your milk, right? So these are all left-wing examples. I mean, the best ones
03:01:17.520 come from the 1980s and early 90s with ACT UP New York. There's never been an activist group that
03:01:22.940 has been more successful before the trucker protest, okay, before the Freedom Convoy than ACT UP.
03:01:27.660 They got everything they wanted. And the world we're living in is a direct result of ACT UP.
03:01:32.080 And I mean that at the most profound possible level. And they had incredible design and graphics
03:01:38.220 to the point where their entire book's written about the design of ACT UP. Everyone knows the
03:01:44.880 Silence Equals Death poster, which is in a variant of Gil Sands with the pink triangle inverted, 0.85
03:01:50.380 which they come up with in an instant by a gay Jewish communist who was part of ACT UP. He was 0.82
03:01:56.120 literally a red diaper baby so of course we don't agree with act up it certainly not retro retroactively
03:02:02.580 certainly they should not have defiled the host at saint patrick's cathedral right there's an
03:02:07.300 entire documentary about that and even the internal dissent is is reflected in that documentary but
03:02:12.780 they were extraordinarily successful what they did because everything was completely as you put it
03:02:18.260 systematized if it works it works and that's why i try and tell people that there's a reason that
03:02:24.040 rules for radicals as much as i may hate the author rules for radicals still is utilized in
03:02:30.040 one form or another now something can be effective and it's it behooves us to understand why it's
03:02:35.640 effective and identity europa i'm sorry evropa you know return with a v to identity europa with a v
03:02:43.720 attempted to do this identity europa attempted to have some kind of um graphic identity uh but of
03:02:49.480 of course, their posters got torn down immediately. And I believe they were prosecuted for
03:02:53.960 putting up some of them. It didn't go very far. It became more a thing talked about by the left
03:03:01.580 wing regime media than actually seen in public. But the posters that said, okay, it's okay to be
03:03:06.800 white. We're halfway to doing something like under the giant has posse, right? But of course, 0.52
03:03:13.740 the fundamental problem is no one had any money to pay a printer to find a printer that would
03:03:17.620 actually print them and then pay the uh the underground leftists to go around and snipe and
03:03:22.740 wheat paste them because they wouldn't do it right so we this means we need you know printers that
03:03:27.580 don't care get it done in south korea i don't know and i guess we need our own dudes to go around
03:03:32.060 wheat pasting you just dress like the other guys who do the wheat pasting and the cops won't hassle
03:03:36.680 you the pigs won't hassle you so there has been there there are small examples of um uh successful
03:03:45.360 design interventions as the leftist would say along along the lines of the wild success of
03:03:51.460 act up which we could absolutely emulate straightforwardly we had a bit more coordination
03:03:56.880 only here and there it's not we we haven't we have we i'm going to say we you right-wing assholes
03:04:01.540 have not done nothing but you're just not well suited to this and there's no no instruction
03:04:05.780 there's no knowledge of the history i've given your listeners more history than they've ever
03:04:09.600 encountered in their entire lives i i really liked the it's okay to be white thing and you
03:04:14.420 reminded me of that and i thought at the time i was looking at the posters and they weren't
03:04:19.620 over designed they weren't trying too hard and uh i'd worked in billboards for a while and you
03:04:25.500 want to talk something that everyone over designs they just put too much information too much noise
03:04:29.300 on it when they need to be bold and simple and it's okay to be white or understated and simple
03:04:35.180 in this case yeah exactly so it actually stands out against the world which draws your attention
03:04:42.120 to it where people when they make design too busy it gets lost within the noise and it seems that
03:04:46.700 for many people they train their eyes to detect an advertisement and filter it out in their
03:04:53.300 peripheral vision but this it draws you into it i said that was a highly effective thing whatever
03:04:59.200 happened to that i think we just or whoever was doing it just it had its it had its moment i mean
03:05:04.540 it it can't last forever i mean you and i are talking about the obama poster and andre the
03:05:08.620 giant had a posse and act up that's all from previous decades and act up is around previous
03:05:12.820 century and it had its moment but it shows that these things are possible and by the way the
03:05:17.220 your the point is saying where people tune out the advertisements you probably know that on the
03:05:21.260 internet that has a that has its own neologism banner blindness right it's and it's it's it's
03:05:27.140 it's such a reality in the present day that trying to use the user interface trying to you know
03:05:31.360 plow through the user interface on crave the crave right first of all i'm afraid of the remote
03:05:37.920 control i'm afraid of touching the wrong button i've really like screwed that up hugely before
03:05:41.520 i literally can't find things on it and sometimes it's sometimes the cursor and i can't tell what
03:05:47.520 has focus because i can't do where the cursor is sometimes the cursor is on the thing i'm looking
03:05:51.200 for and i literally can't see it and that's banner blindness you've banner blindness yourself blind
03:05:57.200 precisely i did say i was halfway visually impaired but only half and not really
03:06:01.280 yeah it's um i was going to keep going with um the idea of conservatives don't know how to design
03:06:10.000 and and the examples you had given in the article i was you know referring to were mainly from what
03:06:15.480 we might call the dissident right um actually before we get to that i was curious without
03:06:21.600 getting too much into your your personal status um you refer to sort of the right wingers as you
03:06:28.440 people what would you call yourself well i i also called you right-wing assholes but these are
03:06:33.700 affectionate sobriques right i was because you also referenced this hour as 88 minutes and only 0.63
03:06:40.100 a fellow traveler would know that deep cut i really really enjoyed this hour is 88 minutes
03:06:45.340 at which in the uh the archives seemed to disappear although i think we could file an
03:06:50.120 access to information request at that place in oshawa that those that awful academic works out
03:06:55.220 there who studies the right wing, she probably has the archives on a hard drive somewhere.
03:07:01.060 Well, I was, let's see, to paraphrase Bronsky Beat, leave in the morning with everything you
03:07:10.760 own in a little black case, right? So I moved from Moncton, even though I'm from Prince Edward
03:07:18.180 Island originally, to Montreal, went to McGill Linguistics, but eventually graduated from
03:07:22.880 U of T. And foolishly came out of the closet here in Toronto. So I saw AIDS Action Now and
03:07:34.680 Queer Nation, which was fun at the time, up close. I saw there what we now understand to be
03:07:41.440 identity politics up close. I've been working in accessibility for people with disabilities
03:07:47.300 for 35 years i even worked in accessibility for gay pride day and back in the previous again
03:07:52.900 previous century you don't see that many gay men in wheelchairs do you uh that's what you think
03:07:59.380 uh to the point where when one of them dies the with the wheel trans the wheel trans drivers ready
03:08:04.400 to raise their eyebrow that's not that's not quite true moving right along i wrote for uh i was a
03:08:11.260 columnist in extra i wrote for out week and the advocate mashagessen was my editrix at the
03:08:16.980 advocate this is for real all right now we have female editor and editrix as an editrix of course 0.61
03:08:22.920 you i i think you're you're you're right wing asshole audience is hip enough to get that i have
03:08:27.920 a lot to learn joe so i essentially i i grew up in uh uh left-wing activism left-wing uh journalism 0.75
03:08:37.140 gay and lesbian journal or queer journalism queer when it was fun and interesting it really was fun
03:08:42.020 interesting. All right. I've very much burned out on that because I'm older now and I understand 0.88
03:08:50.160 things. Maturity came in waves for me. And I understand that these people would personally
03:08:55.480 genocide me if they had the chance. And I certainly dealt with enough hostility about it
03:09:01.140 during the COVID AIDS. And I've just changed my mind completely. Like so many people,
03:09:08.600 um a switch flipped instantaneously right uh we decided that the discourse was no longer possible
03:09:15.520 it's not worth talking to these people uh i just want to do my thing well all right
03:09:19.960 you know you know what happened during the coup right we had the we had uh
03:09:27.300 uh suddenly we got the manna from heaven known as neat bucks all the caps n-e-e-t not in education
03:09:34.700 employment and training bux neat bucks so we had uh trump bucks biden bucks and justin bucks
03:09:41.820 raining from the sky we have the serve in canada right we recall this and uh the the
03:09:49.100 what the regime media calls incels which is uh any man who has trouble talking to a girl
03:09:57.100 understood that they were more hated than ever because they were the ones who didn't want to
03:10:00.540 wear a mask out in public and since since they were just they they'd reached their saturation
03:10:06.140 level of contempt so they decided quite quite reasonably i'm going to take the neat bucks and
03:10:13.580 i'm going to stay at home and i'm going to play my video games and i'm going to read classic
03:10:18.060 literature on project gutenberg and not bother anybody so this makes sense on its face this is
03:10:25.740 a pretty good way to live on its face the problem is they come for you right to this day i have
03:10:31.900 people aggressing uh against me to this very day well not this exact day i have people aggressing
03:10:36.780 against me including you know getting assaulted on the tdc and this sort of thing you know of course 0.89
03:10:41.740 i get uh called a faggot on the tdc and i just shoot back yeah i am a faggot at least i graduated
03:10:46.700 from high school and that shuts them up so i learned the hard way that these people would
03:10:51.980 would personally genocide me if they could, because they almost, they, I mean, they would
03:10:55.760 have, they would have done that if it were at all possible during the COVID dates. So I just don't
03:11:00.020 talk to normies, right? But much more importantly, for reasons known only to the good Lord, even
03:11:08.160 though I was always a Catholic, at no time ever did I not believe in God. I was away from the
03:11:13.900 church for a breezy 44 years, and I have no explanation for that whatsoever. But three years
03:11:19.280 ago, I came back because I was listening to interesting podcasts, including another one
03:11:24.840 I've been a guest on, Trans Regrets Snoopy Presents the Bible, a wonderful show. I would
03:11:29.960 listen to very interesting podcasts and discussions, and I just would walk past the Catholic churches
03:11:35.220 there, and I just kept asking myself, do I have any reason not to be going back to church? And I
03:11:39.620 just couldn't come up with a reason not to. And then, remember I said, many of us went through
03:11:45.100 of a scenario where the switch flipped and we just are our worldview changing in irrevocably
03:11:50.020 in an instant well basically the same thing happened to me and i've just i took one literally
03:11:55.180 one step past a church here and i realized that well i'm the the minute they remove the mask
03:12:00.820 mandate i have to go to the first to the church the first sunday after that if i don't do that
03:12:05.500 i never will and by the way if you if you do that joe notice the change in interlockage here if you 0.92
03:12:12.540 do that, Joe, you basically have to put the dick down for the rest of your life. And my response 0.93
03:12:16.600 in my, again, instantaneous response was, yeah, I know I'll do that. So I'm, I, I lead a small
03:12:23.140 existence, right? My expertise is not wanted by anyone, right? If the, and I've learned the hard
03:12:29.040 way that if over a period of decades, that if I'm the only person who can solve a problem,
03:12:34.480 they'll leave the problem unsolved rather than hire me to fix it because it comes with me and
03:12:38.720 my personality right and my reputation which precedes me now i'm prickly i'm complex and 0.98
03:12:44.540 prickly but that's just because i'm a 20th century elder gay and like the jews of the 20th century
03:12:50.140 we are repositories of knowledge we have great erudition and connoisseurship we have more for 0.62
03:12:56.320 us than the jews we have tremendous valorization of beauty and that's not no no one wants that
03:13:03.040 that's the last thing people want erudition is the last thing people want in the 21st century
03:13:07.380 and that in microcosm is the issue of conservatives not being able to design so i simply lead like the
03:13:14.100 like the the socially awkward fellows who took the neat bucks and just you know sit at home
03:13:18.740 i just lead a small life of church going and daily prayers and you know um i guess try try well this
03:13:27.700 is i mean this sincerely try not to instigate trouble i don't i don't start trouble anymore
03:13:32.340 in fact we're writing that article okay right you think well then why did you write that article
03:13:37.400 because it was even it was an update to a previous article and i was kind of getting getting sick of
03:13:41.160 the lousy type of coffee especially from the beloved steve sailor that that's why i did that
03:13:46.200 but i i try to stay out of trouble these days it comes it comes and finds me anyway but i try to
03:13:52.120 stay out of trouble well i was going to say best of luck on your new path that's why i always say
03:13:58.020 to people who come to the sort of fork in the road that you have i say all i can say is best
03:14:03.560 of luck it seems like you're living a purposeful existence um and do you think that you can change
03:14:12.860 the right with your wisdom of design or do you think or is the uh the separation between these
03:14:18.580 two hemispheres of thought left and right is it is it too wide can you make the concern it's good
03:14:23.500 Well, I don't know. I don't have grand designs, pun intended, in that manner. I'd be happy if we produced pretty good small press books. I agree that with one way I just pointed out that where so much political thought is being lost to the ether by publishing on Substack. This is like the war bloggers publishing on TypePad. Really, there's no structural difference.
03:14:50.120 it'd be nice if we could produce our own little small press books now of course the problem is
03:14:54.800 there's nowhere to buy them in the real world and there's no such thing as a public library that
03:14:58.520 will um stock them because i've you know fought the biggest one in the country about that before
03:15:03.040 if you could go into that a little bit because um when i was in my early 20s i was writing running
03:15:09.900 a small press myself very very small but a big part of what i was doing at the time was getting
03:15:15.000 in touch with independent bookstores getting in touch with libraries trying to just get them on
03:15:21.080 the phone to see if they'll carry the book or writing applications i found the small independent
03:15:24.880 bookstores were more amenable to this but i do wonder if there's a pathway there where it's just
03:15:32.680 hitting the fucking bricks it's something no one wants to do because it's a grind building a
03:15:37.280 rolodex of all these names but that's what publishers do that's what people's entire jobs
03:15:42.160 or just this. But I do wonder, is there a way to just hack together some network of just
03:15:48.980 independent bookstores that could create some semblance of actual published culture?
03:15:56.080 Talk about a blast from the past. I mean, I had a couple of ideas as you were asking your
03:16:01.320 question, but I just flashed back to standing in front of Ernst Zundel's house on Carlton Street
03:16:06.800 back in the 90s. This is back when I knew nothing about Ernst Zundel, apart from what was written
03:16:12.940 in the left-wing press. I still know very little about him. But if you tried to set up a real-world
03:16:22.520 book stall, it would be besieged by Antifa within seconds. There's nothing wrong with using
03:16:32.700 using the internet to sell your books. I think, first of all, the books are poorly produced. We
03:16:36.800 know this. But they're also, they're even poorly presented online. Why shouldn't there be a book
03:16:42.500 trailer in a video for every single book you put out? It's a $0 option to do that sort of thing.
03:16:50.140 And by the way, I did mention in my pieces there that entire centuries of typefaces are non-viable
03:16:57.460 if your outfit medium is Amazon KDP,
03:17:00.520 in other words, the Amazon self-publishing imprint
03:17:02.740 because it's inkjet printing.
03:17:04.440 And even just using well-designed 21st century typefaces,
03:17:08.020 I don't know, like from Jonathan Heffler
03:17:09.320 would solve that problem
03:17:11.300 and have everything's properly edited
03:17:12.420 and well presented and this sort of thing.
03:17:15.820 I don't know how to do a real world bookstall.
03:17:20.540 I know, I would know how,
03:17:21.940 I do know how to argue,
03:17:23.200 uh uh argue that's the right that's a freudian slip i know how to make i know how one would
03:17:31.000 make a case to libraries to stock books like uh bronze age mindset and whatever the hell
03:17:36.900 delicious tacos is publishing this week that sort of thing right the culture thugs apparently
03:17:41.860 is an excellent book academic agent likes it uh i i know how to make that argument it would be
03:17:48.580 very difficult though it'd be extraordinarily difficult and that seems to be a ship that has
03:17:56.880 sailed i would like to do this online online online book selling done better would seem to be
03:18:03.100 would seem to be all all we in quotation marks need yeah um eventually if you're speaking to
03:18:10.060 librarians or any decision maker and i've dealt with this they will they might like the book but
03:18:16.220 say tell me more about the publisher what else do they publish like they are they're aware of what's
03:18:21.660 out there many of them so they want to figure out what the yeah some of them reject self-publishing
03:18:26.780 categorically which they do selectively so for example it'd be very difficult for antelope hill
03:18:31.740 even if they were publishing something classical but they they got a lot of hitler stuff in their
03:18:36.860 catalog and they'll have to love to explain that at some point yes well i had uh i guess i guess
03:18:43.580 we're talking about this now i had a great deal of success and failure with the toronto public
03:18:47.820 library in suggesting titles to them i had over 300 titles added to the library now some of these
03:18:54.220 are quite obscure things including a lot of graphic design work okay fine but the library
03:18:58.300 also didn't have robocop i'm sorry you can't be the biggest library in canada with 100 branches
03:19:02.860 without robocop fine but i also got into them you know got into huge fights with them took with the
03:19:08.220 human rights commission this is the human rights tribunal this is for real um because the the
03:19:13.660 hateful leftist girls who run the place um just refused to uh stock certain books and then after
03:19:21.500 that after that dissipated they um completely rewrote the selection criteria to eliminate
03:19:29.100 self-published materials now that's funny when uh globe and mail columnist jan wong whom i really
03:19:35.820 like. I'm a big fan of Jan Wong. All right. Had her publishing contract shit canned and had to
03:19:42.680 suddenly self-publish her memoir. This is now over 10 years ago. She says the first place that called
03:19:49.860 her to buy copies was the Toronto Public Library, a crate full of self-published memoirs from Jan
03:19:55.680 Wong. Now, again, I'm a fan of Jan Wong. All right. Miss Jan Wong and I. All right. It's fine.
03:20:01.780 But the library was perfectly happy buying a self-published book from an accepted female Vismian authoress, but they're probably not going to want to stalk Bronze Age mindset.
03:20:17.080 And in fact, you're going to hear me typing. Some of us may know worldcat.org. That's essentially, it's a meta catalog of library catalogs. So let's look up Bronze Age Mindset and see if any libraries anywhere. Cornell has it. Smith College, Yale. Yale has it. San Francisco and Monash in Victoria, Australia.
03:20:46.520 that's very interesting so it i guess it can be done it so it's kind of that princeton thing that
03:20:52.200 you hear about what what and what princeton thing is that there it's gay it's a gay college well
03:21:00.520 well let's go back what is this well the san francisco prince of cornell well okay this is a
03:21:05.800 call back to our very first email where you gave me a lashing because even back in 2023 i said
03:21:12.920 something about bronze age mindset probably in passing because i didn't really review it until
03:21:18.120 years later but you had said you shut the up he's one of our great thinkers uh okay bronze
03:21:24.680 age mindset since we're gonna all right let's let's let's become literary critics why not
03:21:29.080 and we're already everything else bronze age age mindset is sui generis it is sui generis
03:21:35.080 bit of experimental literature right it's right up there with kathy acker and lawrence braithwaite
03:21:39.880 and um the the the the classics of avant-garde literature it's it's it is categorically in that
03:21:47.660 same uh in that at that same level now what do we think of uh bronze age pervert well i've sort of
03:21:55.180 gone off on him too unfortunately i maintained a samis.rss feed of his show which only two people 0.71
03:22:03.660 listen to if you'd asked me nicely i could have given you a link um and i even you know would
03:22:10.080 try to you know offer to help move all his audio files over to sub stack and start an rss feed
03:22:17.440 paid rss feed there i've tried to help him i've tried to help so many people over the years all
03:22:22.960 right and but no um also there are there are reasons to become disillusioned and this is
03:22:28.720 again, part of the life cycle. We do get disillusioned with our luminaries, right?
03:22:34.780 The left-wing phrase is, we eat our own. Well, that's what we do. We just get disillusioned
03:22:39.720 with them. And in present day, in the current era, that happens when we find out that they
03:22:46.780 have some kind of unusual behind-the-scenes sponsorship or putting transgenders in their
03:22:52.060 men's magazine or this sort of thing. There's a tripwire. There's a tripwire we didn't know 0.99
03:22:56.440 was he what they um they uh pushed their doc martin boot straight through a tripwire that
03:23:04.400 we didn't know we had even strung up in front of them that's that's how we become disillusioned
03:23:09.160 with right-wing influencers in the present day don't you think do i have that right i think you
03:23:13.100 would also point out one of the shirts i designed and you actually again in very detailed fashion
03:23:19.300 said here's everything that's wrong with this over designing which was one of the reasons i've
03:23:25.400 had to step back.
03:23:27.240 You know, we had a lot of shirts on the Good Suffer store
03:23:29.300 and I ended discontinuing a lot of them because
03:23:31.160 let me look this up.
03:23:33.140 Hold on. I'm literally going to look it up.
03:23:35.940 It's good and it's
03:23:37.080 Good Suffer with a V, right? Return.
03:23:39.280 Also the regular
03:23:40.600 spelling works because I got the other domain name
03:23:43.200 for that. And you want Good Suffer store?
03:23:45.140 Is this GoodSuffer.com
03:23:47.400 I understand that
03:23:50.320 Merch, hold on.
03:23:51.520 Merch is a
03:23:52.700 tremendously fertile ground.
03:23:55.400 Merch is a tremendously fertile ground.
03:23:56.920 Everyone knows what a MAGA hat is, right?
03:23:59.280 Because that is an object discernible at a two-block radius.
03:24:04.660 And how do you know it's an object?
03:24:06.860 Because you don't actually know what it says.
03:24:09.420 Because there are lots of parody versions.
03:24:11.040 There are even remixed versions.
03:24:12.580 For example, make America healthy again.
03:24:15.020 The thing I saw just yesterday was Neil deGrasse Tyson.
03:24:18.460 He was saying, which hat should I wear?
03:24:19.900 And he had a suite of hats, each one of the different catchphrases on it.
03:24:24.700 that was mocking trump in some way and a few of the comments had said just don't wear a red hat 0.98
03:24:31.020 because it triggers rage within me and that's exactly what you're saying it triggers libtards 0.63
03:24:35.100 it triggers libtards yes exactly the very red hat itself regardless of what it says has become 0.75
03:24:41.660 that object it is it is and we watched that happen yes it is totemic it is totemic and then you then 0.99
03:24:48.300 you get the high design versions right the designer versions are anthracite instead of red
03:24:52.940 this sort of thing all right so let me just say what what i was going to critique your merch again
03:24:58.700 like merch like merch could merch is is not only an excellent idea you could charge hundreds of
03:25:04.700 dollars for things well here's the funny thing the best selling shirts because i've had over
03:25:09.180 designed shirts um but the best song shirt was every boomer is the antichrist and they're
03:25:16.620 blasphemous but i'm using but no but it's also it's it was just done on a lark but there's again
03:25:21.820 get a bold simplicity to it. It makes sense on a shirt. Whereas a lot of people's instincts are to
03:25:25.960 take a poster and just slap that on a shirt. I've seen that done dozens of times, but that's not
03:25:32.320 what a shirt is for. And I've had to beat myself over the head with that, that a shirt isn't just
03:25:38.400 meant to be, the shirt's not a frame for whatever crazy design you have. It needs to be stripped
03:25:43.280 down, needs to be viewable at a distance. And I know that my wife is into fashion and I never
03:25:48.940 really was but once i understood how a fashion designer looks at the world and they look at the
03:25:55.580 concept of a silhouette so you look at a woman in a dress and you just you kind of i never i never do
03:26:01.380 that by the way literally never i can't see girls i'm a kinsey 7 which is a phenotype unknown to 0.65
03:26:08.760 anyone i literally can't see them but the typical the typical gay fashion designer exactly that's
03:26:14.520 why you're doing what you're doing you just you didn't know they were there so okay so you're 0.87
03:26:17.540 saying the missus says you look at the silhouette yeah the silhouette so it's like stepping back
03:26:22.100 from like viewing it as an object almost blurring your own vision to see something else because you
03:26:28.420 don't even think in silhouettes but you interpret it that way but you don't know that's what you're
03:26:31.980 looking at it's almost like looking at the negative space around a person yes and so so much so that
03:26:37.580 in in in evaluating all sorts of designs the first thing you do is look at it upside down
03:26:43.100 i'll say it again look at it upside down that was the best advice i got in high school by uh you
03:26:48.760 know my buddy judas's mom who taught us is that you know if you were trying to draw something
03:26:53.200 actually just draw the negative space and that was such no we're talking about two we're talking
03:26:57.080 about two different things i'm not talking about that but i say it's i but it's it's spiritually
03:27:01.200 similar to you to find everything that's that's wrong and right with your design look at it
03:27:05.540 upside down okay just wait a minute what you're drawing is like you're drawing shapes and not
03:27:09.780 filling in the sit trying to replicate the symbol of what it is it's better it's drawing the negative
03:27:14.760 space so you're actually drawing shapes it's still not negative space i'm not going to agree with you
03:27:18.640 on that we're talking about two related things i'm it's what you're saying is fine i'm just saying
03:27:23.140 as as a heuristic you look at things up so now okay i'm looking at your site your bang bang beaver
03:27:28.700 gang parentheses no relation t-shirt you are 80 of the way to an interesting typographic design
03:27:34.860 there i don't know what it means but that's that's part of the magic isn't it you're not supposed to
03:27:39.040 know what it means if you know what it means then well i mean um well that's actually that that was
03:27:43.580 for jay burden and we spent the most uh time on that one for that reasons that we designed something
03:27:49.680 that if you know what it is if you know you know however this design could be at home in any in
03:27:57.300 most shirt stores you could imagine lots of different types of people buying that shirt
03:28:01.080 I'm just seeing it based on that phrase alone.
03:28:03.780 Right.
03:28:04.040 But I would say think bigger.
03:28:09.700 You don't have to just make T-shirts, which are unflattering on most of the right-wing assholes' phenotypes because they're pencil neck geeks or fatzos generally, right? 0.51
03:28:19.500 And again, so are young Catholics. 0.54
03:28:21.160 So are traditional Catholics.
03:28:22.560 You're at a Latin mass. 1.00
03:28:23.240 All you have are pencil neck geeks and fatzos. 1.00
03:28:26.220 So it's better than the Orthodox. 1.00
03:28:27.260 They're all former drug addicts who can deadlift four plates and are covered in skin illustrations and footlong beards. 1.00
03:28:33.060 Anyway, you could think a bit bigger and have an entire product line of almost bespoke things like jackets or long-sleeved shirts, right, that cost hundreds of dollars.
03:28:47.920 And you could be the only one in your town slash parish wearing these things.
03:28:52.980 And there, of course, you'd have to be someone who takes a lot of pride in self-presentation anyway.
03:28:58.760 We can think back to what we discussed earlier.
03:29:01.300 But it shouldn't just be a T-shirt and a stupid baseball cap.
03:29:04.840 I mean, I would never leave the house and a shirt that wasn't ironed, and trousers that weren't ironed.
03:29:09.000 I would never leave the shirt and the shirt, the house and a T-shirt or a ball cap. 0.78
03:29:15.580 You delightful, you adorable Nazis should think bigger because the merch is a fertile ground.
03:29:21.360 because these are three-dimensional objects
03:29:23.260 and you can have three-dimensional designs on them.
03:29:26.180 Well, it's interesting you mentioned that
03:29:27.620 because there was two branches to this store
03:29:30.180 that we were going to pursue.
03:29:31.700 One of them, Judas, he has his hand on a CNC machine
03:29:36.000 and we can actually produce products if we want to.
03:29:39.520 So that's been a plan in the back burner for a bit.
03:29:41.960 And also my wife has been adamant
03:29:43.660 of the materials we should move into.
03:29:45.460 She's always trying to get me to go into denim
03:29:47.280 and these are all good ideas,
03:29:49.420 but they require a lot of runway to get done like creating a cnc manufacturing and machining
03:29:56.420 uh proper product we need to be sure that the product is good um so so are you imagine are you
03:30:04.700 and you just uh contemplating manufacturing uh aluminium ingots in the shape of a iron cross
03:30:14.800 what do you like bespoke iron crosses in aluminium what are you doing it can it can be pretty much
03:30:20.920 anything machined out of um it's also got a 3d printer too so there's a lot of types of things
03:30:27.080 we could make and so i was approaching it of some people will say oh just start producing things and
03:30:32.560 just sell things but i was wanted to be very curative about what we actually produce is it
03:30:37.840 curative curative interesting word isn't that like taking turmeric for your infection it's curative
03:30:42.060 that's a good usage it's a good metonymic usage so your missus is does your missus like denim
03:30:49.260 slash jeans well she's into fashion and she just told me denim was in and so i thought okay well
03:30:55.300 denim jackets are also and i'm like okay but that's an entirely different we have to source
03:31:00.120 that ourselves well yes but there are precedents for that and you're aware that um denim is is is 1.00
03:31:06.140 a terrain overrun by autists right you've i trust you or at least your wife has heard of the brand 1.00
03:31:13.660 naked and famous denim yes they're from montreal they're montreal anglophones they've gotten they 1.00
03:31:18.900 gotten shit from the language police because they're the sticker for their um burglar alarm
03:31:23.060 was only in english and they literally got reprimanded for that well naked and famous
03:31:27.240 have amazing stuff um those of those few of you who are in toronto should go to over the rainbow
03:31:32.680 in the Manulife Center and finger their $285 Naked and Famous pairs of jeans, which are worth
03:31:40.020 the money. I don't spend it, but it's worth the money. When Naked and Famous opened a store in
03:31:48.280 New York, they hired only Naked and Famous autists from the subreddit to staff it. So
03:31:56.980 this is there's a lot can be done there um now the naked and famous dudes who are sort of ethnic
03:32:02.660 and someone are probably left-wing they probably wouldn't want to talk to you but um the the the
03:32:08.440 true antecedent here is william gibson because you know the the rickson jackets and the the lore
03:32:13.660 of william gibson outerwear from the last five present-day set books or whatever whatever it is
03:32:18.920 right so the this this an entire sub-genre of is this well for decades there's been a sub-genre of
03:32:25.940 elite recherches denim manufacturers, many of them Japanese, but the Japanese indigo dye and
03:32:33.120 this sort of thing. By the way, the only pair of jeans I have are Levi's 501s, Justin Timberlake,
03:32:39.360 limited edition in blue camo, which no one bought, which were marked down to 40 bucks at the bay.
03:32:44.120 I should have bought the entire stack of them. I've got only one. It's the only denim I have.
03:32:48.480 But I understand that it is its entire sub-genre, which means if there are these small batch
03:32:54.160 artisanal makers of denim that means there are small batch artisanal suppliers of denim and you
03:33:01.540 could even subcontract from these small batch artisanal makers do you have off cuts can we
03:33:05.700 buy your off cuts from you yeah this is the one that's a that's a very good approach and that's
03:33:10.280 precisely where we're going to do there is a model for the good sufferer store that we have
03:33:15.180 written and planned out i just haven't got a chance to do yet because i got too many irons in
03:33:19.620 the fire but it's it's doing building the entire brand on limited drops and only doing really
03:33:26.960 exciting but sudden and interesting items and not not doing what everyone else does um and i'm not
03:33:34.600 going to mention any names here but the approach doing merch and it's not just on our site it's
03:33:40.000 everywhere but it's like let's just slap our logo on stuff whatever the stuff is and a lot of it 0.78
03:33:46.940 doesn't even sell but if it's print on demand or manufacturer on demand doesn't fucking matter
03:33:51.200 but our approach this entire time has been it's it's not a good approach because it's more time
03:33:57.240 intensive and more expensive is that let's just start by making something that is cool and will
03:34:02.660 sell something that looks good it don't just create a logo and say oh we're just it's slop
03:34:08.180 it's just selling slop to make a buck but it's not treating your audience seriously it's not
03:34:12.700 treating yourself seriously and it's creating something ugly and stupid or you could just
03:34:17.240 or you could just make two beautiful objects and sell one of them keep the other one around
03:34:21.420 precisely to get an order for a third one you may make a third one and that's that that's more what
03:34:27.540 i would like to approach is because the partnership i have with one of the guys does our shirts he
03:34:32.000 does short runs and we he built an entire screen printing rig just for us and i want to partner
03:34:38.480 with more small producers like that and just it just takes more time it takes more planning it 0.67
03:34:44.560 takes more people and i've got three other fucking businesses that are run apparently i know it's 0.83
03:34:50.020 maybe this maybe this isn't a task for you maybe this is a task for some other uh entrepreneur 0.88
03:34:56.280 but also it's start it's really started with me and some of the designers that i work with and
03:35:03.080 I have a very solid team of designers, various disciplines and saying like, let's actually
03:35:08.900 find people who are good at making this and let's treat, you know, when we partner with
03:35:13.580 a brand or we partner with a creator, let's, let's say Jayburn, right?
03:35:18.440 We, I treat him as a client.
03:35:20.000 I don't just say, Hey, give me your logo.
03:35:21.560 I'm going to put it on a shirt and I'm going to take your money that you put in.
03:35:25.200 Some of these, again, not going to mention names.
03:35:27.740 some of these merch organizations that partner with other creators they make the creators pay
03:35:34.060 them to make the stuff and then they also get a cut on the same and so and i don't do that i give
03:35:39.380 100 of the profit to jay burden z-man censor not whoever might be well exactly and you you should
03:35:45.780 look at it the way uh come to garcon looks at its retail staff as co-conspirators and that's what i
03:35:51.740 do and and you know if they send their traffic to us maybe they buy something of mine which does
03:35:56.700 happen but then i also treat them as if they were clients so that jay burden design was like three 0.73
03:36:01.680 fucking months of work of revision upon revision and maybe we didn't get as to the standards that 0.89
03:36:08.040 someone of yourself might have but i i was no you're you're you're 80 you're 80 of the way 0.82
03:36:12.120 there the last 20 20 percentage points are somewhat complex but yeah i'm i'm really proud
03:36:18.720 of that design and that was sort of a a test case of what we do for other brands and that's
03:36:25.100 they don't pay us for that we just said look if we're partnering with you we're going to do it
03:36:28.680 right we're going to make something something new we're going to design something new what i'm
03:36:34.060 saying is one of your listeners could be inspired by this you know i went to the velvet underground
03:36:38.140 show kind of thing right is the or the the first the sex pistol show and the watch 24-hour party
03:36:44.580 people about this someone else could be inspired by this and what you're describing of is these
03:36:48.740 limited edition drops i'm doing air quotes these limited edition drops that's what uh um small
03:36:54.540 boutique labels like outlier and the at least five others one of them japanese uh do uh like
03:37:00.020 the the new the new uh pants from trousers from uh outlier in some strange poly aromide fabric
03:37:07.800 or whatever are sold out in the first day right or at least in in in waist size 36 uh right so
03:37:14.700 there there's an existing model for this and as everyone on the in the dissonant right has been
03:37:20.660 saying for years there is a market for this and i'm sure it's not just hestia cigarettes which
03:37:25.100 don't really exist there is there's literally a market for this it doesn't have to be you dimes
03:37:30.000 and you and your your co-conspirator udis coming up with this someone else can but it requires
03:37:35.800 you know a skill acumen taste right which is another thing we don't have anymore and by the
03:37:42.020 way i agree with fran lebowitz on this um aids didn't just kill all the cool people it killed
03:37:48.700 off entire audiences right so we don't have audiences with taste and an eye and expertise
03:37:54.540 an audience that can tell that can tell uh shit from good chocolate and also everything
03:37:58.720 is uh viewed through a propagandistic lens and i noticed this with a lot of our audiences
03:38:04.120 which is you know they will talk a big game about we must discover beauty but no one creates
03:38:09.780 anything beautiful and they just make a meme edit of statues they've never seen in persons
03:38:16.180 They don't know what it's like to actually vote.
03:38:18.520 It makes an enormous difference.
03:38:19.520 It makes an enormous difference.
03:38:20.560 And even, again, according to our beloved goddess, Camille Paglia, if you look at abstract art, it's even the same abstract art like Jackson Pollock's that were funded by the CIA as a means of undermining, right?
03:38:35.740 If you see the real thing, it's positively overwhelming.
03:38:39.240 But they look ridiculous in a thumbnail on the Twitter.
03:38:42.460 So they can apprehend these things ideologically or just logically say, this is beauty and we need more of this, but they don't really feel anything and they don't want to create anything.
03:38:52.700 It's all propagandistic.
03:38:53.980 It's just here's a conduit through which to deliver a message.
03:38:58.360 And I wrote this article recently called Utopian Trauma, and that was my way of trying to, I was describing the world of art as a dimension you can inhabit.
03:39:08.660 We need to want to be in it.
03:39:11.360 and it's it's not just current art it's current art as a reaction or an evolution to the entire
03:39:18.740 history of art which is how i engage with art in the museum like you can't look at modern or
03:39:25.000 post-modern art without understanding it as as links in a chain it doesn't just it exists adjacent
03:39:33.080 to everything else that is in the museum around that's why going through the met or the guggenheim
03:39:37.840 is is such an experience if you open yourself up to it but if you go in with your arms crossed and
03:39:44.000 saying well i i've i've heard this is all degenerate i heard this is all stupid you just 0.58
03:39:48.120 actually don't let yourself yes or or a cia psyop it probably was but there have been some there's 0.51
03:39:57.160 been some research into this of course we know research is poorly replicated etc we know the
03:40:01.320 problems with research that um more visually sophisticated people which means doesn't mean
03:40:07.720 better just means more trained and more experienced okay and those with a propensity to understand
03:40:12.980 these things you might not be that person but more visually sophisticated people like for example you
03:40:18.160 know use the term brutalist about helvetica helvetica is not a brutalist typeface it's a
03:40:22.020 grotesque typeface that's spelled esk but visually sophisticated people like brutalist architecture
03:40:27.820 and like postmodern architecture.
03:40:29.940 Okay, I like some brutalist architecture, 0.99
03:40:32.080 including a lot of Catholic churches,
03:40:33.500 strangely enough, the ones in Japan, 0.60
03:40:35.020 look those up.
03:40:36.180 And postmodern architecture can be absolutely amazing.
03:40:40.460 Actually, if you kids want to,
03:40:42.680 kids, slightly dismissive, but you are kids.
03:40:45.860 Even you, Dimes, are a child to me. 0.95
03:40:49.160 Amir Sapling, if you want to read 1.00
03:40:51.280 the typography books, fine,
03:40:53.020 but also get from the library or so on,
03:40:55.480 the books about postmodern architecture
03:40:57.140 by Charles Jenks, which is J-E-N-C-K-S.
03:41:00.800 Don't read the books, just flip through them,
03:41:03.180 look at the pictures and read the cut lines.
03:41:05.260 You will learn everything about postmodern architecture.
03:41:07.940 Now, you might not still like it,
03:41:09.500 but you'll like some of them.
03:41:10.680 You'll like some of them, right?
03:41:12.260 So I hear what you're saying.
03:41:13.940 What you're saying is there's the received opinion
03:41:18.540 for autistic internet dissident right-wing thinkers. 0.96
03:41:25.060 They're not really thinkers, 0.66
03:41:26.000 they're people at Twitter accounts.
03:41:27.140 right is um post-modernism or brutalism right are indeed um uh degenerate and undermining
03:41:37.440 cia psyops center to be dismissed categorically no absolutely not no i don't agree with that
03:41:43.380 um i like avant-garde films uh i i like basically i like everything on john again john waters lots
03:41:51.560 of recency effect on this uh in this conversation i like everything on john waters top 10 list every
03:41:56.220 it turns out these are tend to turn out to be really good movies so you can be you can you can
03:42:01.340 hew to tradition even if you don't quite know what that is because you're too young to have
03:42:05.000 developed an eye for that either but really the the online ideology is to dismiss
03:42:12.140 entire schools like post-modern architecture or visual art or brutalist architecture as whatever
03:42:19.980 using those adjectives that we've already cited several times in this conversation i'm telling
03:42:25.440 is that it's not necessarily true. And you might just not have the eye that's capable of discerning
03:42:32.240 these even gross differences, let alone fine differences. And you may never have that eye.
03:42:38.080 You may wish to try to improve yourself. And if you want to do that, you can do things like
03:42:43.140 get the Charles Jenks books and just look at the pictures and read the cut lines.
03:42:47.040 It can be as simple as that. But I'll let you speak in a second. I know it's your show.
03:42:52.700 So there are cordon sanitaire in the right wing.
03:43:00.940 Michael Mal says that American conservatives have third rails that they won't touch.
03:43:09.740 For example, before the COVID AIDS, the police or the military, you couldn't criticize the
03:43:14.360 military to an American Republican Party voter in the United States, right?
03:43:19.280 there are these cordon sanitaire, and the internet, the e-write, is replete with cordon
03:43:27.440 sanitaire, plural. In fact, it's nesting circles, you know, districts of contamination, to paraphrase
03:43:35.780 the man in the high castle, right? And you're not allowed to have these aesthetic tendencies,
03:43:43.480 right? Of course, it makes sense to object to having transgenders in the so-called men's 1.00
03:43:47.760 magazine. Very nice. Maybe we can all agree on that. But at a certain point, you're just 0.57
03:43:53.640 reiterating mindlessly, literally mindlessly reiterating talking points to show in-group
03:44:01.380 allegiance, like putting a black square on your Instagram, which the leftists were pretty good at,
03:44:06.400 right? That was very effective design, by the way, right? So it's in-group signaling, and
03:44:12.700 there is not a lot of room for dissidence ence uh in this sphere i mean as i mean i have a
03:44:20.900 catchphrase for everything i'm the only x in the village for any value of x in every village
03:44:25.320 so i show up with this kind of a different history a different um artistic background even
03:44:32.840 right and i don't fit into that but i don't have to i don't have to agree with you on these things
03:44:37.860 or them on these things and you're not either dimes and you also don't have to take on every
03:44:42.240 business that makes sense because you have a visual sense i would like to make better merch
03:44:46.620 you say well you have other things to do if i'm not mistaken you have one or more children
03:44:50.520 so you have better things to do let someone else do this that's a good that might be a good place
03:44:57.500 to end design because i do need to get going soon yes we covered everything i wanted to cover
03:45:02.900 and more this is a fascinating interview this this is the type of interview that i'd like to do now
03:45:07.640 where i don't do that many one-on-one interviews anymore and i will only do it infrequently i will
03:45:13.880 do them if it's with someone that i just genuinely like that i know and these have been the best
03:45:20.040 interviews this this this is a treat for me to do these these ones uh so and this so are you saying
03:45:27.160 you like me now dimes i always honestly like i i didn't tell you to off at any point and i could
03:45:33.560 of the night is still young no no i meant like even over all the emails you sent yeah yeah look
03:45:40.120 i i was not i was not tearing a strip off you we we've we've we're we're past that now we're
03:45:44.520 we're close extremely sure i never interpreted it as directly hostile because honestly even though
03:45:51.320 you said so several times on this this self-same episode i know you were you were pulling my leg
03:45:55.640 okay i know but still yeah but but i have received genuine hostility from many different sources so i
03:46:01.960 i can uh differentiate between the two but with you i understood i'm like okay this is coming from
03:46:07.140 a place that you see a problem that you want to fix and i'm open to that i'm open from a position
03:46:13.440 of knowledge exactly and i can tell from talking to you that you're the type of three-dimensional
03:46:20.900 mind like you can just go off we can go on for another four hours if we wanted to i'm sure and
03:46:26.240 just probe that that history um because we've only scratched the surface of how many different
03:46:31.920 topics do we scratch the surface well you can you can you can have me on again maybe we could
03:46:35.520 have a christmas special you can have me on that before i forget all right so the other thing that
03:46:42.380 comes up whenever we discuss graphic design is of course the tv show mad men right um i was somehow
03:46:48.520 able to use the netflix ui we have netflix for a month like all right i know it's i'll have to
03:46:54.700 repent of that too chris i have i have like three different platforms we subscribe to and i don't
03:46:59.840 like any of them i don't like any of them either look i watch i i blew through the last the the
03:47:05.120 final finale of madman okay it doesn't i don't think it really holds up years later and i had
03:47:11.620 a shitty audio description track but that's just me i wrote the i wrote the audio description track
03:47:15.840 for the imax nascar film so i should know but whenever you bring up graphic design people
03:47:20.200 immediately think advertising that's because of course everyone likes something that's reducible
03:47:24.120 to an image that you can put on a printed page
03:47:27.460 or show in a thumbnail, right?
03:47:29.300 But that's not the entire graphic design.
03:47:31.700 You certainly can't discuss copy editing
03:47:34.040 at that level of abstraction.
03:47:35.900 Everyone loves Mad Men,
03:47:37.300 but all those same people have forgotten 30-something
03:47:40.860 from 1988 through 1990,
03:47:43.540 which is someone has uploaded the whole series
03:47:46.980 on the YouTubes, the shitty captioning job,
03:47:49.540 but that's fine.
03:47:50.880 Watch 30-something, 0.93
03:47:51.840 which has a lot of neurotic Jews in it, and half of them are girls, but it has the amazing story 0.98
03:47:57.720 of Michael and Elliot, the writer and artist, modeled after Chayat and Day of Chayat Day,
03:48:07.180 right? And what happens to their company when they go to work for the bigger company
03:48:12.840 run by the iconic and enigmatic Miles Drentel in an incredible 1980s office that I would just
03:48:22.720 love to live in. I would live in that office. It's so fantastic. So if you can skip the Jewish
03:48:27.720 neuroticism, you skip entire episodes full of Jewish neuroticism, as an examination of the 0.99
03:48:33.400 advertising business, I can't recommend 30-something enough. And you have never seen 1.00
03:48:39.200 better business suits, like more flattering business suits in your entire life than what
03:48:44.680 Ken Olin as Michael Stedman wears in 30-something. And since this was in the 1980s, everything was
03:48:50.400 true, honest, original, legitimate fabrics, you know, no polyester and this sort of thing.
03:48:57.420 The aesthetics were superb. So since all of you kids, I'm back to that, aren't I? Since your
03:49:04.220 listener base is certainly very familiar with mad men you should watch 30 something again correcting 1.00
03:49:09.440 for the jewish neuroticism just learn about you know the this is the truly the prototypical 0.90
03:49:14.600 examination of uh the advertising business there i want to check that out i never even heard of it 0.89
03:49:20.740 and people are probably sick of me talking about mad men but it seems to be a show that comes up
03:49:25.000 there there's been more people have seen that show than it would have initially yeah yeah mad men
03:49:31.800 Well, the problem with Mad Men was back then I had a TiVo.
03:49:34.880 I was like one of the few people in Canada with a TiVo, which is fantastic.
03:49:37.580 I would pause the stupid show and scream at the television screen because I got every
03:49:43.020 reference on that show.
03:49:44.520 I got every advertising and design reference on that show, which was replete with them.
03:49:48.860 So I was yelling at the screen, which I've been doing for decades to no one's benefit,
03:49:52.580 least of all my own.
03:49:53.760 Of course, everyone knows what Mad Men is.
03:49:55.320 Of course it is.
03:49:55.760 But for your audience, again, a theme here is where do you begin to learn about these
03:50:00.520 things?
03:50:00.760 Pick away at it.
03:50:02.200 You can't become an expert in under 10 years.
03:50:04.740 You don't need to become an expert.
03:50:06.280 It has to be a new portfolio of expertise that you can blossom into.
03:50:11.500 Well, one of them is watching 30-something on the YouTubes.
03:50:15.100 There.
03:50:15.340 All right.
03:50:16.160 Good.
03:50:16.740 That's good.
03:50:17.240 We got a lot of good recommendations on this episode.
03:50:19.740 So we'll probably end it there.
03:50:21.120 I just want to thank you so much, Joe.
03:50:23.140 And everyone check out JoeClark.org.
03:50:26.480 JoeClark.org.
03:50:28.260 I haven't removed anything,
03:50:29.780 but i've just hidden everything because i just it's i basically retired from everything like
03:50:34.280 all my old everything from strange web accessibility nonsense to browser test pages to
03:50:39.820 a million bits on graphic design and hundreds of my old articles and this sort of thing it's all
03:50:44.500 there but it's just basically hidden because i don't want to be bothered anymore but it's fine
03:50:48.780 you know and i also have a private twitter account uh if if you if if you seem to be acceptable i'll
03:50:56.300 let you follow me right approved persons may follow me right well i hope i can get you some
03:51:01.860 good followers with this episode so joe again thank you so much for taking the time this is a
03:51:06.920 great interview i had a great time and i'll be having you on again sometime soon for sure
03:51:11.040 well i hope all right well bye for now and as i like to say go with god he goes with you
03:51:16.100 hey baby i hear the blues are calling tall salads and scramblings
03:51:21.860 And maybe I seem a bit confused
03:51:26.440 Yeah, maybe, but I got you, Peg