00:47:28.920So the deep, the problem, or not, maybe not a problem, but just the next thing, the next step of having this deep fake technology has already been explored by some OnlyFans girls, which is like, oh, the thing that was bothering people was that they released a photo of these three very hot and fit blonde girls.
00:51:34.120leslie neilson he might have had an anti-semitic movie in there he would have been from a time
00:51:38.080where he could have slipped one into yeah probably maybe that was the airplane movie i haven't seen
00:51:42.300it maybe airplane oh you gotta watch airplane it's great him and a couple jewish guys flying
00:51:46.800the airplane into the twin towers i wish but i was looking ahead because you know the funny thing0.68
00:51:53.220about only fans is that people have known for a long time that most women don't even make a lot1.00
00:51:58.320of money on it uh they it like the mid-range you make like 100 bucks a month from just churning out1.00
00:52:04.680content and then there's sort of like the one percent of the one percent who make all the
00:52:08.960money and they brag about it but like there's a lot of women being prostitutes for pennies you0.98
00:52:13.680would make more money if you were just a cam girl slave you know yeah but that so they would jump
00:52:21.320the chance to automate this and find novel ways to be a ho uh but i was thinking again taking this0.83
00:52:28.920this is the second uh angle i was going to take with this which is looking ahead that you know
00:52:35.000what would the market for this sort of ai be to to be able to generate completely completely
00:52:41.000generate very realistic images and again i have to come back to the market will be increasingly
00:52:47.720insane fetishes like i can see because it seems like porn companies get very big very fast like
00:52:57.400with it i'm old enough to remember like i kind of remember like the phenomenon blacked like this is
00:53:03.440a weird thing to talk about but like i just remember one day like people were talking about0.65
00:53:08.300this fucking because it was like it was cut to normal people it almost seemed offensive0.78
00:53:11.760and then to you know everyone else like it became a meme like it was a meme before anything0.99
00:53:16.720and like i remember like uh there's this a show i would watch called legion of skanks with uh
00:53:22.740big j okerson and a couple of other communities louis j gomez and he's kind of a trollish guy
00:53:27.680and he was he'd be wearing he's a puerto rican guy but he's wearing like a blacked hat it was
00:53:32.960just like a funny like prop to have but um i just remember like one day it showed up and then it was
00:53:38.960worth like a billion dollars right oh it seemed like anyway we can talk about like oh it got that
00:53:45.500way because of funding from israel these companies i'm like well i guess exactly so to me i can see
00:53:51.640a future where all the shadowy forces that funnel money into porn and then just blast it out there
00:53:58.240we have these sort of like ai porn cartels where what a porn cartel would be like a drug cartel
00:54:05.880where what they're really selling is the the the color and the purity and the volume so they'll be0.78
00:54:15.960like we can give you the most realistic and most fucked up niche stuff you can imagine and we know
00:54:22.000there's might to be made on this because from what i know about the furry community furry you know0.57
00:54:28.040there's this one guy as an example of the furry community his name is a frederick brennan frederick
00:54:35.100brennan was one of the guys who made a chan and frederick brennan is i think he's in his 30s but0.73
00:54:40.760he's a cripple and he's got this degenerative bone disease he's confined to a wheelchair he was0.96
00:54:45.700living the philippines for the longest time he's just this total degenerate anyway he's a furry1.00
00:54:51.320became a furry now this guy makes like no money this guy would maybe make two thousand dollars a0.96
00:54:56.220month he is spending fifteen hundred of those dollars on furry porn he is these people if they
00:55:03.720have a dollar to spend they will sell spend it on their fetish they they're they are addicts they0.97
00:55:10.920are sexual addicts so to me i don't want to i don't want to go off on too much of a tangent0.83
00:55:16.400but to me that is so alien because i i i don't do that i don't know anybody and i haven't even
00:55:23.580heard a firsthand account of anyone ever in my life uh who spent even a penny on any pornography
00:55:31.000To me, the idea broadly of paying real cash dollars for porn is insane.
00:55:39.060And you're telling me that these guys – the only reason I think that it's possibly true is because I know how broken and unhuman many of these people are.
00:55:49.540Like if you're a furry, you're not really human to begin with.
00:55:52.240Even you would claim you're not human.0.99
00:55:54.080So I mean I can believe that you would do something that's that ridiculous.0.93
00:55:57.000but but other stuff like like stuff that has a clear political motive like blacked i find it0.99
00:56:03.200really hard to believe that blacked is worth a billion dollars on evaluation which relates to
00:56:07.600their like growth and also also i probably i just made up a billion dollars but i would i've seen
00:56:13.580reports in forbes like this is if i was going to take a guess i can't imagine i can't imagine blacked
00:56:19.160making more than one million dollars revenue total in a year because i don't know like their stuff is
00:56:24.340all over the internet that's why it's i mean because it's everywhere you know what i mean
00:56:27.460so why how on earth do they make money all we can say for sure we might not know exactly how
00:56:32.560much it is but it is a big black company it is oh good no but really like but it's like it's
00:56:42.720talked about of course there's subversive forces at play but that's that's why i'm saying this0.96
00:56:47.400might take off even more because it will be low investment you know you don't need to deal with
00:56:52.760people anymore you don't need to deal with all the risks that are associated with that you can
00:56:56.660churn out higher quality and more niche porn so say hello to way more rape stuff say how all the
00:57:04.600taboos and forget for a second that this is going to be used to try and normalize child porn without
00:57:11.400question that's that's going to be one of the first things that will happen i'm already seeing
00:57:15.980it i've already seen a few people that's that's where i understand the economic argument because0.97
00:57:20.260i know that those guys because of the nature of of their shit that it's criminal and they stand to0.99
00:57:25.780lose their lives they stand to literally be killed by families right those guys are are in it up to0.99
00:57:33.480their necks so those are the guys that would be willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars1.00
00:57:37.800each to get something that was clean that didn't result in them getting a fucking bullet like they0.98
00:57:42.940deserve but like for everybody else unless unless it's like it's it's it's market it's it's not0.99
00:57:51.460market driven it's market driving in the same way that i think the black porn is that it isn't
00:57:56.840actually a product it's it's propaganda exactly created it's created and it's backed and it
00:58:02.280doesn't actually make money it's a loss leading enterprise designed to move people in one direction
00:58:06.820and they're going to operate just like drug cartels like how do drug cartels get people
00:58:11.720hooked on the harder stuff why was crack cocaine such a novel invention of enterprising drug
00:58:18.540dealers like and that's when you think of the cartel think of the drug ecosystem so at the
00:58:22.560very top of the cartels it filters down to the dealers who in this case would be the only fans
00:58:28.600girls and uh the enterprising prostitutes but you know they will be say they'll be begging for some0.68
00:58:35.660of these ai cart you know i keep calling the cartels but let's organizations corporations0.90
00:58:40.800whatever but that they will be fixing the market by saying give me a solution because i want to
00:58:45.940give something to my audience that will really get the money going so over time you will see1.00
00:58:50.780the temperature on that water go up where they're these women are offering more and more fringe like1.00
00:58:55.320what was that fucking woman the one that everyone was talking about the the the one who was selling1.00
00:59:01.560their own bath water remember her bell bell delphine yeah so imagine now everyone can be1.00
00:59:07.720bell delphine easily by produce it won't really be them and that line will always be blurred
00:59:13.240and then i think it'll just make it'll force people to develop because that's what the internet
00:59:18.980did it forced people to develop these fetishes that never existed before in history and all of
00:59:25.440these things will be combined and i think that they haven't yet i'm just waiting like honestly
00:59:30.720every time i see a new one i'm like it's one step closer to like the the the theory of everything
00:59:36.400but like deepfake version which would be like bell delphine for example um you want to have
00:59:44.140weird like visually ai generated bell delphine fetish something like that but the reason bell1.00
00:59:50.340delphine was like that whole story that arc of her becoming a degenerate whore started with her1.00
00:59:56.860being a twitch streamer like a game streamer right yeah and then people wanted to pay her more but1.00
01:00:01.120the point is that the reason she made so much money on only fans was because she was already
01:00:04.320a celebrity so it's a celebrity who broke and went on only fans well now the celebrities don't
01:00:10.000have to break because it's not just that you can make the fetish porn but you can put the face of
01:00:14.900a celebrity on it and the voice and they all combine and it's like yeah why are we on the
01:00:22.240internet anymore like let's say like the way i see this going is everything just becomes more
01:00:26.960and more blurred yeah and that's good yeah sorry did you read sorry did you read that thing john
01:00:31.980posted in the chat of this this guy i feel horrible the like messages from barsoomer whoever
01:00:38.660on substack had written that short story about what things are like in 2050 no i didn't read
01:00:44.980that yet no because he it was it touched on he talked about the soul war which i want to know
01:00:50.720more about but they talked about this idea that in around the 2030s the internet got to a point
01:00:57.360where it was so untrustworthy and everybody was so cynical about it that there was like a sea
01:01:03.440change in the way that people even treated the internet and i think that he's that's prescient
01:01:08.680i think this is where we're headed and the whole the ai generation of text of voice of art of video0.90
01:01:15.220is going to be one of probably the driving factor we've already seen so much other bullshit like
01:01:21.180psyops and propaganda but like this is now literally all of your because it's not even0.95
01:01:25.600about the internet it's about your perceptive faculties as a human yeah yeah and that's exactly
01:01:32.000what that's what the internet did is it merged but traditionally we'd have different types of
01:01:36.360media all those different types of media merged and then we merged this but that we merged the
01:01:42.140the delineation between uh real life and digital life like this this shouldn't surprise people if
01:01:48.160they just paid attention for the last you know like a few decades all the types of media got
01:01:53.360merged and then the real and the digital and the fantastical have been merged and then you started
01:01:57.840getting frauds and fakes but at least the frauds and the fakes were handmade so they were few and
01:02:01.920far between now the frauds and fakes are not just cheap but they're free and apparently self-generating
01:02:08.140and very soon they will be the majority of the content and very very and also the only i don't
01:02:15.240want to necessarily make this into like an ethnic or nationalist thing but the more exposure i get
01:02:22.280to the rest of the world the more i see that it's really only these european or western countries
01:02:27.840that take a firm stand against scams and that and everywhere else in the world scams are way
01:02:34.800more prevalence and almost way more accepted like it's almost like in india it's accepted that0.93
01:02:40.100everyone's gonna try and fuck you over and scam you and it's just it's part of life this idea0.96
01:02:44.500hong kong and china it's the same thing like it's part of their business culture you essentially if1.00
01:02:48.900you if you get scammed you you're not the victim you're an idiot because everybody knows that0.99
01:02:54.560everything is a scam all the time it's like you're walking on eggshells everywhere you go1.00
01:02:58.160which is no way to live but that's how they live and that's that's most of south america too
01:03:03.060Like I remember one, I had a client when I was working at an agency years ago.
01:03:08.880We were partnering with, what would these be called?
01:05:50.020There is this case recently of a woman.
01:05:54.580Lindsay Clancy is a mother accused of killing her three children
01:05:58.260and attempting to end her own life as well.
01:06:01.240A tragedy in Massachusetts, as prosecutors say,
01:06:04.740a mother killed her three young children before attempting her own suicide.
01:06:09.600She wasn't the first and she won't be the last.
01:06:12.060On January 24th, five-year-old Cora, three-year-old Dawson, and eight-month-old Callan were found with obvious signs of trauma in their Duxbury home.
01:06:22.200Cora and Dawson were pronounced dead at the hospital, and Callan died three days later.
01:06:27.120While a cause of death has not officially been determined, the district attorney's office says, quote,
01:06:32.360Lindsay Clancy, the Massachusetts mother, accused in connection with the deaths of her three children,
01:06:40.840remains hospitalized as she is treated for injuries suffered when she jumped from a window
01:06:46.200of her Duxbury home uh so you know that almost right there is an admission of guilt to me
01:06:52.200if you do anything and then jump out of a window after you did whatever it is if your house burned
01:06:58.900down accidentally and you jumped out of a window I assume you lit the fire yeah that might not seem
01:07:05.080fair but it is what it is yep um now that itself is a tragedy uh and also you know let me just read
01:07:15.140the husband and the father of the children kind of annoyed me and maybe it shouldn't know me
01:07:21.000because i'm reading a press release released by him so he's got to play it cool but um his name
01:07:27.320is patrick clancy uh he writes a lot of people have said that they can't imagine and they're
01:07:32.820right there's absolutely nothing that can prepare you the shock and pain is excruciating and
01:07:37.940relentless i want to ask all of you that you find it deep within yourselves to forgive lindsey as i
01:07:44.960have the real lindsey was generously loving and caring towards everyone me our kids friends
01:07:51.120family and her patients the very fibers of her of her soul are loving but she loved being a nurse
01:08:00.440but nothing matched her intense love for our kids so we're talking about so wild that she
01:08:05.760was a nurse yeah now that that alone predicted that that that alone is a pretty crazy story
01:08:12.960okay now what really stuck in my craw a lot of people's craws after was the um the response that
01:08:22.740we are beginning to see on tiktok and other social media platforms is that there's a lot0.94
01:08:28.760of women who are siding with her yeah and they're releasing stories from their own we're talking
01:08:33.700about mothers here there's mothers who are making these posts and what they are saying is i understand
01:08:38.880where she's coming from because i felt the same way when my children were born um and saying that
01:08:45.700i'm going to read one right now i'm looking at a screenshot from tiktok common intrusive thoughts
01:08:53.000as a new mom and this is the woman here writing this i'm just going to read the quotes what if
01:08:58.140i threw the baby over the balcony i should just leave the car seat unbuckled what if i hit the
01:09:03.620baby's head on the corner what if i held the baby underwater too long the baby would be better off0.94
01:09:09.360without me am i having sexual thoughts about the baby what if i stabbed the baby with a kitchen
01:09:15.400knife should i leave the baby alone in the car overnight well that just sounds like you're trying
01:09:20.020to be forgetful but i'm talking i'm looking at dozens of these and so i don't know how many are
01:09:26.340out there but i'm seeing many um of women admitting that they want to do the most heinous
01:09:31.260things their kids sometimes they need to be stopped by the father and i don't know i want
01:09:36.980to get your thoughts on that immediately before i go on and you've seen these now what's your
01:09:41.780gut reaction to that first of all nurses right so psychopaths is what i'm sorry i meant to say
01:09:47.640i meant to say uh bipolar psychopaths um exist and they probably have all kinds of thoughts about
01:09:54.580killing children regardless of whether it's their kids or not regardless of whether it's justified
01:09:58.660that being said as a parent of toddlers and i've had like when you especially when you first have
01:10:06.140a kid and you have a job and your life is stressful and you don't have a lot of money and
01:10:09.820you have to work in the next morning and your kid many nights in a row is screaming inconsolably and
01:10:15.240there's nothing you can do and you literally are falling asleep on your feet rocking the kid back
01:10:20.100and forth you will have intrusive thoughts at the very least of like what if i just put the kid on0.99
01:10:25.240the floor and went back to bed fuck this now the important thing is you you don't there's a huge0.99
01:10:32.280difference between having an intrusive thought which never mind kids we all have what if i jumped0.99
01:10:37.360on the subway tracks what if i stuck my hand on the burn what if i jumped out this way like everybody
01:10:42.240has these thoughts the thoughts don't mean you intend to do it the thoughts are like a i don't
01:10:48.100know why they happen but it's like it's a consideration right and the point i was actually
01:10:52.500making in the chat earlier about this is you're not really i don't think you're really a person0.92
01:10:57.280if you don't at least sometimes go through a whole gamut of insane considerations to shit test
01:11:05.160yourself into making the right decision which you then ultimately make because we aren't child0.86
01:11:09.920killers largely right and so it's not that we aren't child killers because nobody ever thinks
01:11:15.480about it we aren't child killers because we do often think about it but none of us ever do it
01:11:21.560and that actually is the reason that we're good people right yeah you saying well i had the thought
01:11:26.640to do it so i just i had a bad thought so i did a bad thing no that makes you evil you're an evil0.99
01:11:32.920person and you deserve to die you're not one of us well also like the couple things stuck out to me0.98
01:11:38.880with the post that i'm reading uh one was the level of detail they were giving um so i got one0.99
01:11:45.140here i'm looking at uh i can't see her screen name but uh it's her saying distinctly remembering
01:11:51.800the intrusive thoughts of putting a knife in my baby's fontanel but never telling a soul because
01:11:57.080i was too embarrassed lindsey clancy and her children deserve better so two things there0.62
01:12:02.040one is the level of detail of like them saying no i wanted to cut his head in half i'm like
01:12:07.740okay like to me like leaving the baby on a picnic blanket and just walking away and going like i
01:12:15.120If you told me that the mom said, what if I just walked away?
01:34:35.860He's anti, you know, not in a political way.
01:34:39.980So he's not like, I like this type of state or I like that type of state.
01:34:44.060He's anti-state. He's making the case that any time, any state of any sort of political ideology attempts to engineer how people operate, it ends in tears.
01:34:57.080Is it anarchy as a philosophical position or a practice? I would expect that it would be a practice on the ground.
01:35:06.460I'm now being quasi-facetious, but I argue that we all should do our anarchist calisthenics,
01:35:14.060that one day we will be called on, as for example in the civil rights movement,
01:35:19.840we'll be called on to break a big law, and everything will depend on it, and we have to
01:35:24.240be ready. And we won't be ready unless we stay in shape. And so you must break a small law every
01:35:30.500day or two. A lot I like about this book. I will say, however, it's pretty long.
01:35:36.460I don't have 400 pages, not that long, but I'd say it starts off very, very strong.
01:35:41.920But there's an entire, if we break it up into thirds, the entire second third of the book is just criticizing the Soviets.
01:35:52.300So he starts off by giving like real world examples from Germany of these things.
01:35:57.000Then it's just kind of an ideological critique on collectivism, which some people might like.
01:36:03.080if you've never seen that before just a guy saying why lenin was wrong and and why the bolsheviks
01:36:09.240we've heard that a hundred times before i kind of skim that part i'm sure it's good you know it's
01:36:14.980well written but uh what i liked about it more was him pulling real world examples of actual
01:36:20.760projects that governments tried to perfect their society and how it just failed or more importantly
01:36:29.220how they succeeded and once they succeeded how there was no going back after that
01:36:35.560so i guess what i'll start with one example um one example he touched on briefly he went to
01:36:43.080china for this example was about the creation of surnames in china and by all accounts china was
01:36:51.480probably the first uh people nation kingdom whatever to impose surnames so all throughout
01:36:59.540human history a lot of the times especially in england the people know this generally that
01:37:03.540you know last names were kind of evolved over time from it's like oh you're jeffrey from monmouth or
01:37:11.240you're jeffrey and you're a blacksmith so you're jeffrey smith so your last name was contextuals
01:37:16.540whatever you did in that town which didn't matter as long as you were in the town but once you
01:37:22.240started going out of the town you had to like amend other stuff onto it but the entire idea of
01:37:26.600forcing everyone to have a second name on a federal level on an official level one of the
01:37:34.180first people place to do was china and then just tracking how that happens because the idea is
01:37:40.740like once you start forcing them to have that last name they never revert back to not having
01:37:46.200a last name like you change the people forever and that's one of the messages he was getting
01:37:51.780out in the book it's like even a lot of the times when a state forces its people to do something
01:37:57.820they never revert back um and a lot of the times it's done not for their interest but for the
01:38:03.640state's interests which i'm sure you would probably agree with and then you know he gave
01:38:07.940the example of china but the same reasons for forcing people to register official surnames
01:38:14.000was the exact same in england and it all came down to land ownership like nine times out of ten the0.98
01:38:18.980only reason they're making them do this is to establish official documents so they could fuck
01:38:23.800you over in some way and you might also ask yourself this question in terms of actually being
01:38:30.420governed what do you imagine in terms of the presence of the state in people's lives ask
01:38:37.440Ask yourself at what date most of the world's population would actually have come to know
01:38:43.740the routine of a tax collector as part of their life.
01:38:48.220My guess is that until at least 1600 A.D., much of the world's population had avoided
01:51:17.260and he wasn't as much of a tyrant as they would grow to be,
01:51:20.460and that's kind of true because feudal lords,
01:51:22.240the way it worked was a feudal lord would have his peasants and his land
01:51:27.220and the peasants would work for the feudal lord.
01:51:29.120The problem is that the feudal lord would pay the taxes, right?
01:51:35.000And feudal lords, they're responsible for taxes, not the people.
01:51:39.180the peasants were never responsible for taxes only feudal lords and the feudal lords would
01:51:43.840routinely try and not pay taxes by making up lies right make up lies about how much people had
01:51:51.340produced and then so really the problem that the kings or the states saw was that we're not getting
01:52:00.900enough revenue and we know there's shady business going on but there was kind of a relationship
01:52:06.480or the feudal lords would were going easy on the peasants and the peasants you know they wouldn't0.58
01:52:11.940need to work as hard and everyone was kind of fucking over everyone and not but not the the
01:52:16.940the state the centralized power said i really want to squeeze people more and this is where you saw
01:52:23.660the birth of individual taxation so the idea of an individual paying a tax was a new thing a lot
01:52:32.960people when they think about taxation they for some you know i might have been guilty of this
01:52:36.560they think back in time like man people had to pay taxes no no no only the people in charge had
01:52:42.180to pay taxes and they had their own sort of bureaucratic ways to fuck it over but then what
01:52:47.300the government tried to do to centralize its own power and to cut out the feudal lords was to try
01:52:53.560and tax every single uh subject individually it's like now you owe me ten dollars and that
01:53:00.640becomes a whole fucking thing and that's where the surnames and the stuff come from like we need to0.52
01:53:04.440be able to count these people and the only reason we want to do a census is because we want to tax0.97
01:53:10.380them individually so that's just one example where it's like oh i'm a citizen now yes but you're only
01:53:17.140a citizen and the king only cares about you because he wants money from you and he only did
01:53:23.000this and this is sort of a dejuvenelian thing where it's the high low versus the middle
01:53:26.940the centralized power trying to wage war against sort of the subsidiary power by using the fringe
01:53:33.760power against it we talked about this a lot of the show but this is like a classic thing of them
01:53:38.200trying to edge out this inconvenient sort of managerial class because they want more money
01:53:43.100for themselves but then you get sort of like oh yeah i want to give you a little bit of liberty0.97
01:53:48.040but it's only to rape you you have the liberty to be raped with more efficiency um and another one
01:53:55.080one i was going to talk about was um the standardization of measurements in that same
01:54:00.520sort of um vein like they would have taxes on things like bread like you could only use so much
01:54:07.040bread so they would like change the sizes of bread you know what i mean to like to find loopholes
01:54:12.340around it or another one was um kind of like that i'm going to go on a couple tangents here but
01:54:17.160they're amusing to me he said like uh i think we talked about this on the show before where
01:54:21.760one thing that they used to do to try and tax people more efficiently was they would tax a
01:54:29.200household based on how many uh windows it had and doors because they would tell oh if the building
01:54:35.460has this many doors it would make sense that there's at least these many people in the building
01:54:40.120so we can look at a glance and tell what to tax that household so what the what did they do well
01:54:44.920they did the most obvious thing in the world which was make buildings with less windows and doors
01:54:49.240but you used to have buildings with way more windows and doors and to this day i think you
01:54:54.860were telling me was it you i was talking to you were saying oh yeah no when i visited you last
01:55:01.000you were saying that you were going to like osha or something and getting a tour of like these old
01:55:05.800buildings it's uh it's called actually anybody in southern ontario it's called todd morden mills
01:55:10.500it's a tourist attraction in uh the dawn valley in toronto it's by the brick with the old brick
01:55:15.700works so when you were you and i were that age we were always going and fucking smoking at the
01:55:20.300brickworks but on the far side of the don river is the another equally old building uh which is
01:55:26.940todd morton mills but the houses in todd morton mills were built according to those bylaws so
01:55:31.560they're like very narrow and tall red brick houses that have almost no windows on the ground floor
01:55:37.960a single door and a lot of windows on the upper floors and it's just ridiculous like they don't
01:55:42.740make it they look ridiculous but that's what they had to do to deal with the taxation at that time
01:55:47.240and the funny thing you consider is that that carries over generation by generation so some
01:55:51.940people are like well why do we build our houses this way and you don't know at first it was to0.98
01:55:56.200get around this shitty fucking tax and then it just became a thing you do for the next seven0.96
01:56:01.440generations because why do we have so few doors on our buildings why is there just one and you0.99
01:56:07.480know but that's the reason that's how it starts and that's how these changes become embedded in
01:56:12.140the culture and you never revert to them because they become normalized so fast so for states to
01:56:18.740make these greedy you know these grabs at power it's like yeah it changes the people and their
01:56:24.260behavior forever sometimes it's you know pretty benign but then in other ways you know you got a0.97
01:56:29.700new fucking name now now now you don't own your land as much as you thought that you did um but0.88
01:56:36.340that the units of measure was like okay one thing he pointed out was that you know having universal0.99
01:56:43.920units of measure makes sense to us sure like having everyone uses the exact same way to measure weight
01:56:51.140and distance and stuff but he says that while you gain something through universalization
01:56:57.460and standardization you lose some of the contextual meaning and so one example he gave was
01:57:03.040um when they first various experiments on how to price land so the way you started to price land
01:57:12.340for a while was like just the space of the land like how many acres of it but that's actually a
01:57:17.960very very poor way to measure the value of land he said traditionally you would measure the value
01:57:23.540of land by how many hours or days it takes to work the land now that's kind of an abstract value
01:57:30.500that's contextual value that's not a mathematic value really you know it's something like oh it's
01:57:36.040uh two days as the crow flies you know that's not specific but it's real because it's so much
01:57:42.820closer to the value that would be placed on it by the people that live in which is the whole reason
01:57:47.880you want the land which is to work the land so you would have a measure of how some general measure
01:57:54.440of probably how much it would take for an able-bodied man to work the land and then the
01:57:59.680scientist would say well what do you mean by able-bodied i'm like i know it's not specific
01:58:03.580but in getting more scientific you actually you lose that human contextual utility and then you
01:58:12.160you cannot replicate that within a state system um and he was giving examples of it was in um
01:58:19.500hold on all right so he's got an example here of a town i believe it was in iceland it's called
01:58:27.440Novoselok. It's a village, N-O-V-O-S-E-L-O-K. So this was an interesting case of how they tried0.75
01:58:37.480to sort of formalize how farmers, because a big thing that state's trying to do is change how
01:58:43.900farmers do things. That's one of the themes of the book. One of the biggest things he comes back
01:58:48.560to is how many times, and not just with the Soviets and not just with the Bolsheviks and
01:58:54.500not just with the Great Leap Forward in China where they try to upend how the farmers do things
01:58:59.560and everyone starves. But the point is that a lot of people think agricultural fuck ups. They think0.95
01:59:05.480the Soviets, but he makes a good point in the book. He's like, you know, even before the Soviets,
01:59:11.240Tsarist Russia was doing pretty much the same thing. Like, because what were the Soviets trying
01:59:16.840to do? They're trying to maximize yield and everything, but it's like, so are the Tsars.
01:59:19.980like they were always experimenting for ways to like change to get their fucking fingers and how0.94
01:59:26.660the farmers do things and and because they just didn't like how they did they didn't like not0.97
01:59:31.040controlling it okay they couldn't really understand it so in this village the way they would divide
01:59:36.440land was in like long slivers right it's hard to show visually but the way because the way the land
01:59:43.740was you wouldn't own one big block of land you would own a very thin line of land but that went
01:59:49.220back very far the trick was that when you did that the land you owned actually cut across more
01:59:56.480biomes like when you did it like that you would get a chunk here they could grow this type of
02:00:02.700thing then this and then there's it crosses a stream up here and then it goes up into the
02:00:07.080mountain so you actually had more diversity in the things you could grow which is very good
02:00:13.060for an individual like a family farm for a homestead but then once you switch it up to how
02:00:18.560the state wants you to do so you're just going to own this one block and just grow this one thing
02:00:22.900it's like okay but that means it's less sustainable it's less fair to the and they've they've perfected
02:00:29.340this way of farming for centuries right and they got a good thing going and you said no i'm going
02:00:34.900to increase the efficiency instead of you being able to grow seven different things on your land
02:00:39.320you're just going to grow one and then that it just it makes everything worse and it's they
02:00:43.960produce less that's what they start to learn whenever and they did this in tanzania too and0.58
02:00:50.100outlines in the book like every time they try and like upend the farmers from what they do best like
02:00:55.440the the crops go down people fucking starve and then the question is do do does this system0.51
02:01:04.120actually improve or do people just get used to starving you know what i mean i think that's the0.96
02:01:09.120question he comes back to it's like okay some people will argue that oh yeah there's a bit of
02:01:13.920a problem area after we try a new thing but it goes back to normal afterwards we get better at
02:01:19.260it he's saying does it actually get better or does it get permanently worse and people just get used
02:01:24.880to it you know you know this the new farming system doesn't really go you actually need more
02:01:31.840people to do it so and you just find new ways to get more people to make less but that's just the
02:01:38.260norm and you've lost the ability to do how you did before but i think agriculture is probably
02:01:44.320the best example you know we get into language and measurements stuff like that it's kind of0.97
02:01:48.540anecdotal but this is where people actually fucking die and it never seems to work very well0.69
02:01:54.600the only time it seems to work now is in america you know this is like you know if anyone's ever0.98
02:02:01.420been in a plane and flown over the midwest you just see these giant blocks of land just growing
02:02:07.920one thing it's all systematized you got one farmer and an army of machines like it's it
02:02:14.220could be seen as very efficient on a large scale that is true but it's not it's not it's not okay
02:02:20.180i don't know i'm not a far straight up it's not do you have anything to say about because i don't
02:02:25.080know too much about this but i am curious about it my instinct is to say it's it's not but it's
02:02:30.360all corn and soy anyways yeah so this is the issue with it like as as a corporatized unit it's the
02:02:35.580most effective way to do it but what you're saying is is this is the effective or efficient method
02:02:40.660most efficient method within the larger framework and the framework is corporatized farming but if
02:02:47.060you're that completely ignores the long run uh sustainability of that environment i don't mean
02:02:53.620sustainability like greenhouse gases i mean like will that land even be farmable in 30 years and
02:02:58.740the answer is no because you've already pumped it with so much fertilizer and the soil is so
02:03:03.320fucking dead like if you look at the this is how this is i read an article about this recently in0.78
02:03:07.460germany um the soil uh fauna like uh it's small insects and worms and fungus and things that0.99
02:03:14.640live in the soil which can contribute to the health of root structures of trees and and other
02:03:21.500plants that they grow right um has decreased in biodiversity by like 90 just in the past 30 years
02:03:28.260and the primary reason is is like lack of biodiversity breeds lack of biodiversity i
02:03:33.960won't go into a whole thing about it but the point is there i could talk for hours about this there
02:03:37.640are all kinds of reasons why huge nitrogen intensive monoculture in the long run makes
02:03:46.480species extinct and destroys your land and you're going to have another dust bowl and the irony is
02:03:51.560is the processes that we're using today were invented to save us from the dust bowl almost
02:03:56.160100 years ago and now it's going to create another dust bowl and it's already happening
02:04:00.060but they're not going to fucking stop if you go if you go like agroforestry and permaculture on a
02:04:05.720small scale like dunbar's number within an agricultural community you could reverse this0.90
02:04:12.020and not only reverse it but you could create higher quality produce for less in greater
02:04:18.160quantity per acre and i you don't have to take my word for it because people are already doing this
02:04:22.720all over the world and have been since the 70s but there's no way like you were saying about the
02:04:27.340roads there's no way to monetize this there's no way for the state to get inside of it to crack
02:04:33.300that can open and extract they can't do it because the only way that it works is extremely complex
02:04:39.820tight-knit communities that have a human intelligence to them that that's the only way
02:04:45.300that it works. Agriculturalists and pastoralists and hunters and gatherers are generally thought
02:04:54.780of by most laymen as hermetically sealed categories in which people do not move back
02:05:01.440and forth. And the fact is that people move back and forth all the time. So the period that I'm
02:05:07.260talking about in the last, let's say, 15,000 BC to 7,000 BC. People are moving back depending on
02:05:17.600climate change and so on, from pastoralism to hunting and gathering. You can think of them
02:05:23.220as having a portfolio that they adjust different portions of, depending on what makes sense at a
02:05:29.040particular time. I'm going to read a part here from the village I was just talking about.
02:05:35.640here's just an excerpt um he says the dream of state officials and agrarian reformers at least
02:05:42.440since emancipation was to transform the open field system into a series of consolidated
02:05:48.240independent farmsteads on what they took to be the western european model they were driven by
02:05:53.960the desire to break the hold of the community over the individual household and to move from
02:06:00.080collective taxation of the whole community to a tax on individual landowners as in france fiscal
02:06:07.360goals were very much connected to reigning ideas of agricultural progress under count sergey witte
02:06:14.360and peter stolpin plans for reform shared a common vision of how things were and how they
02:06:20.980needed to be so that's just him saying that you know every step of the way it's more to
02:06:26.400it's actually to break the community it's to and just like in the cities and in the city example
02:06:32.360i was talking about before he cites a bruges as the example so bruges if you look at these
02:06:37.980ancient cities they're formed like an old growth tree and concentric circles going outward
02:06:43.760and these interconnected areas and so at in all these examples it's to it's to break the community
02:06:51.480and to spread people apart and to atomize them because once you have an atomized individual that
02:06:57.560does not exist in a community they're way easier to tax and i i think that is the thread that runs
02:07:04.140the book and i do think it's accurate um and he also he cites the uh actually there's a line here
02:07:10.880hold on yeah he this is a whole part on like why the state wants to simplify everything and
02:07:17.240standardize everything he says i just like this part here he says although the purposes of the
02:07:22.420state were broadening what the state wanted to know was still directly related to those purposes
02:07:27.200the 19th century prussian state for example was very much interested in the ages and sexes of
02:07:33.920immigrants and emigrants but not in their religions or races what mattered to the state was keeping
02:07:39.280track of possible draft dodgers and maintaining a supply of men of military age the state's
02:07:45.320Increasing concern with productivity, health, sanitation, education, transportation, mineral resources, grain production, and investment was less an abandonment of older objectives of statecraft than a broadening and deepening of what those objectives entailed in the modern world.
02:08:04.840And also, I wanted to say that he's got a term for this that he repeats throughout the book.
02:08:11.300I've never heard this anywhere else, but it's his term.
02:08:13.160he calls it high modernism high modernism that's the cancer that he says is infecting everything
02:08:20.780and it's it's a driving force that isn't just a product of the state so throughout the book he
02:08:28.240also uh puts the the reticle on the enlightenment era thinkers like he talks about descartes in this
02:08:35.480he says the enlightenment era thinkers uh like descartes hated this and many administrators
02:08:40.840would redesign cities like france redesigned the city to make them more orderly but primarily with
02:08:46.760quelling rebellion in mind this is what the modern city is designed for and so he's quoting
02:08:52.980descartes and he's quoting like who are these enlightenment thinkers and we talked about the
02:08:57.200enlightenment we've talked about the scientific revolution on the show but these were all guys
02:09:02.600who were using wielding the knife of rationality to rework the world so you have even philosophers
02:09:09.040what i'm saying philosophers and scientists and so don't just think it was administrators there
02:09:14.540was like some of the better thinkers over time saying you know why don't we redesign cities and
02:09:18.660arguably this is this is why it's still relevant now this is what the world economic forum is
02:09:25.960this still hasn't changed it's just changed the scale you still have the administrative class
02:09:31.780and you still have a lot of philosophers and thinkers and intellectuals frankly advocating
02:09:36.660for this it's the exact same people with the exact same tone advocating for it and they think
02:09:41.980they're doing it just to bring sane sensible order to the world thinking the entire time
02:09:49.240that they can maximize humanity by stripping inconvenient humanity away and he says this in
02:09:57.060the book they says to the administrator the administrative mind most of the world is useless
02:10:04.520and you got to get inside their head you want to talk the managerial class you want to talk
02:10:09.140the people sitting at the desk making the decisions you got to realize they think most
02:10:13.680of what people do like 90 of it can be stripped away they think it's it's useless if you listen
02:10:19.720to a lot of the you know new atheist guys like the stephen pinkers of the world they probably0.50
02:10:24.180think this too they think that you know not just religion but all beliefs and not just all beliefs0.70
02:10:29.580but fashion and not just fashion but you know the only thing they seem to like is regional cuisine0.97
02:10:34.820right but they they think everything we do is stupid and they not only would not miss it if0.98
02:10:41.500it was gone but they're actively trying to get rid of it because they they think like a state1.00
02:10:45.960and they see like a state you know and little region like your language who fucking cares
02:10:51.460and he also cites the creation of esperanto in this because esperanto was this just made up0.95
02:10:59.060fucking language that they said this is the perfect language it was designed by administrators
02:11:05.340by people who see like a state to be a perfect language that could solve this problem of1.00
02:11:11.340languages in the world the problem is no one fucking speaks esperanto but weird losers weird0.98
02:11:18.180weird old liberal ladies i think peggy hill and king of the hill spoke esperanto and it was kind1.00
02:11:23.780of like a joke like who the fuck speaks this like bureaucrat language but that's that's the0.98
02:11:29.800sort of thing you hope they fail you hope they get something like esperanto that fails and people0.95
02:11:34.600laugh at and not something that fails after it's been implemented and you don't the deed to your
02:11:40.360house doesn't mean anything anymore yeah yeah um and but the trade-off is and i i would be remiss
02:11:49.060if i didn't mention this that the trade-off is that this sort of stuff seems to be necessary
02:11:54.040to operate in global trade that he mentions that in the book he says like the centralization of
02:11:59.280measurement as an example to go back to measurement to measure everything in yards and the same ways
02:12:04.400to measure weight was it that encouraged global trade mass productive commodities
02:12:10.580arguably led to things like the enlightenment so the idea that everyone can kind of you know we
02:12:15.660talked about this before and we talked about that the first encyclopedia the guy who sat down and
02:12:20.280tried to like map the various regional dialects into one cohesive language and that that promoted
02:12:27.600unity that you would not have an english people if you didn't have that so i do want to be fair
02:12:34.420by saying that the centralization of power has led to a lot of good things but really what i'm
02:12:42.240trying to get at with uh describing this book is saying that it seems that the most of the time
02:12:48.000it's not done with the people in mind the people just get used to it it's just to center the people
02:12:54.000who benefit from that the most seem to be the state or the power structures and they see every
02:13:00.360step of the way they seem to have unintended consequences and there could be benign consequences
02:13:05.500like oh you gotta learn a new last name and it changes the family structure or it's like you
02:13:11.140don't get to farm and like you're the cross-generational farmstead doesn't exist anymore
02:13:16.880we're taking your land and i mean they're they're only ostensibly unintentional i think in most
02:13:22.200cases the consequences are not difficult to predict and it's very likely that they did predict them
02:13:27.520and it's part of the reason that they implemented it in the first place so yeah well he says like
02:13:33.020historically the purpose of the state was to increase the power and wealth of the sovereign
02:13:37.960entity and then it it kind of shifted over time to being like the well-being of the people but
02:13:44.520i think the argument he's making is like it never really was the well-being of the people it just
02:13:48.260says it's the well-being of the people which you can do if you if you pretend that oh you're all
02:13:53.060citizens and we're on this together um and he says and this is what he calls high modernism
02:13:58.980is a high modern in his mind high modernism is just a synonym for um like scientific liberalism
02:14:07.440so he says high modernism is it like an avant-garde movement to order nature and people
02:14:14.080and when you phrase it like that it makes sense that it wouldn't just be administrators that
02:14:18.780would do this like the desire to order nature that that cuts deep that there's there's something
02:14:25.840like people want to do that they like you know building a house a certain way you know like
02:14:31.440making you know if you can order things you can make sense of the universe right
02:14:35.460but that was kind of what i was talking about um on this episode i'm going to be speaking to uh
02:14:42.180you know right after we're done here you'll hear the interview i have with the fascifist
02:14:45.640and there's this there's this interesting thing that happens that you know i'm trying to come
02:14:51.480at this from a scientific point of view so let me just say that like it seems to be that the thing
02:14:56.380human beings like to do is order nature while never having a view of nature that is in sufficient
02:15:04.620detail sufficient granular detail so and and that and we always miss that and that's what causes
02:15:10.780problems so you know like being and we see this all the time when we try and predict what nature
02:15:15.920is going to do and we try we try and like go with the flow but whenever we think we understand it
02:15:20.720there's always another layer of complexity we did not account for and it seems that the more levels
02:15:26.540we go down the more levels are revealed it seems perhaps it's the destiny of humanity to never
02:15:33.700fully have a total grasp on how nature works and for a religious-minded person they would say that's
02:15:39.720god god is the force that is eternally unknowable to people and it is something approximating
02:15:49.400intelligence that makes everything fit together that's one way to look at it you can probably
02:15:53.340look at it as just if you even if you want to look at it from a scientific point of view say
02:15:56.420it's just a level of complexity that the human mind is never going to be able to grasp but when
02:16:01.880you behave as if you do that's where you create catastrophes and if i had to summarize the book
02:16:07.580that's what it would be and i think the problem is that no matter how many catastrophes we cause
02:16:13.840we're never going to stop and i think that for people the people who listen to our show
02:16:18.780the people in our scene i think that's sort of the cynical uh the cynical place that we
02:16:25.240reserved ourselves to which is like as bad as this is and as how as long this has been going on for
02:16:31.260it's not like it's not communists like people think oh it's the communists and the bolsheviks
02:16:36.140who tried to reorder society it's like no the czars before the bolsheviks were doing it too
02:16:40.620any the every fucking kingdom was trying to do something like this it was interesting that he0.71
02:16:46.560makes a claim in here that i think it's true it's like you know when the bolsheviks were doing their0.97
02:16:50.620thing and the soviets were rising the americans were very interested in it the whole world was
02:16:56.960watching the soviets and seeing if they could pull it off no one hated the soviets right away
02:17:02.380remember that remember whatever happened between america and the soviets there was a long time
02:17:06.560when america was saying maybe we should try this with centralized planning like that was what it
02:17:12.420was a big test case for that and and what i'm saying is even if the soviet system failed the
02:17:19.340desire to have something like that which works that never went away and that is the world economic
02:17:25.600forum that is klaus schwab that is they're still thinking they can order nature and they they
02:17:31.960believe that they've they've accounted for everything but the book is about how you never
02:17:36.640really account for everything and when you think you account for everything you just kill things
02:17:41.160you just strip away something you strip away humanity and then once it's stripped away it
02:17:47.100never comes back and so you should you should heed that danger and i think that's more or less
02:17:53.360we're trying to get at it's kind of like a sociological or like a macro scale version of
02:17:58.900of like a link colon way of thinking where it's like you you you are one person you need to live
02:18:04.120in harmony with nature and your environment and part of what's being said there is that you are
02:18:09.100not omnipotent you're not intelligent and and strong enough or great enough in comparison to
02:18:15.460your environment to ever hold it and model it in your head you're never going to be able to
02:18:19.540so it's much safer for you and people around you if you live in harmony with it and react to it
02:18:24.720rather than trying to alter it and manipulate it and i know i came through this kind of libertarian
02:18:30.040pipeline to where we are now and that's one of the things that i hold on to is the idea broadly
02:18:35.300that the state by its own definition will always do this and for that reason there is never a
02:18:43.580justification for any kind of state or at least that is to say the state has to really constantly
02:18:50.380fight to prove how valuable it is to you never ever ever just lay down and say oh they're doing
02:18:57.000it for our own good they're helping us because even guys on our side will always talk about
02:19:01.560how great the government would be if only the government did this and our government will do
02:19:04.980x y and z and i go along with it because i appreciate the principle but to be totally
02:19:11.220honest you're just as wrong as joe biden you're just as wrong as justin trudeau because you are
02:19:17.500not omnipotent and you will never be able to plan things the only way that things can be planned is
02:19:22.160organically through the emergent reactions of thousands of people simultaneously and no one
02:19:27.380person it's almost like god's plan in a sense that's what we're talking about essentially so
02:19:31.720and just to give an example of like the city uh case that we're talking about a lot of it goes
02:19:36.660back to this guy named he's a french man named le corbusier first i don't know he's called like
02:19:42.660the i'm a big fan yeah corbusier yeah yeah i love he he designed like the radiant city and that was
02:19:47.540supposed to be a city of the future that was essentially centrally planned le corbusier who
02:19:53.620in the first half of the 20th century wrote books put up buildings and designed bits of furniture
02:19:59.060that all conveyed the excitement sleekness and glamour of the modern technological world
02:20:04.980Le Corbusier began his career by attacking the architecture of the Victorian age and contrasting
02:20:11.220it with what he saw as the beauty and intelligence of modern engineering.
02:20:16.260Our engineers are healthy and virile, active and useful, balanced and happy in their work,
02:20:22.340he exclaimed in his famous polemical book Towards a New Architecture, written in 1923.
02:20:28.180Meanwhile, Le Corbusier added, our architects are disillusioned and unemployed,
02:20:32.420boastful or peevish this is because there will soon be nothing for them to do
02:20:36.740we no longer have the money to erect historical souvenirs and then one of the ways you do that is
02:20:43.060you have total segregation like you build it like a circuit board you know you imagine a circuit
02:20:47.700board that's kind of this whole idea of say like you have everything segregated here is space where
02:20:51.620people meet here is space where people live and it's just brutally efficient and they tried to
02:20:57.140to do this there's a couple cities that they made after this one was um in brazil just called
02:21:03.580brasilia it was a kind of a concept city they built by the communist party in brazil at the
02:21:09.780time um and there's a city that was built to these specifications in india called chandahar
02:21:18.520that's what it is yeah chandahar it was co-designed by le corbusier uh he said but essentially both
02:21:24.800of those cities kind of failed and everyone hated them and whatever like form they have now wasn't
02:21:29.000what they were kind of intended to be um so but but that's the case where like even the soviets
02:21:35.020like i was saying like this was a movement at the time that the soviets were trying out but there
02:21:39.520was people all over the world kind of trying to do this collective farming this central planning
02:21:44.920thing and then the soviets were just like everyone was like hoping to see what would happen but0.97
02:21:49.680you know it wouldn't have been far and away than what the even the romanovs would have wanted to
02:21:54.780do you know um and and his primary critique and i know we gotta leave soon but i just wanted to
02:22:01.500get some of his his justifications across here this one that i like um because if some people
02:22:07.960are kind of pushing back on what we're saying like if they say that oh the way that we do now
02:22:13.700is more efficient i think what he says here i believe to be a bit more true he says um
02:22:19.240uh truly efficient systems do not necessarily have visual neatness and symmetry when viewed
02:22:28.500from above truly efficient systems are usually generated from below um and he was saying like
02:22:35.220peasants are flexible whereas systems are not and that's what i really wanted to focus on is like
02:22:40.040like large-scale flexibility the ability to bend with nature and whatnot you know the the villages
02:22:47.320were um and it's kind of like this battle between what he calls traditional cultivators
02:22:53.640versus scientific methodology so you know with a this is the best part he said so not only are
02:22:59.660they more flexible um you can actually experiment more right so if you had some land and then you
02:23:07.640understand that land and this way of farming so well because your father your grandfather did it
02:23:13.540And maybe the land that you farm is mixed use because that's what farms used to be, mixed use farms.
02:23:19.160You could actually experiment with cultivation techniques more easily, which is what they did.
02:23:24.960So when you had this sort of generated from below organization, it maximized efficiency and maximized experimentation in a much shorter amount of time.
02:23:35.980So when you systematize things, you are making them static.
02:23:39.780and right back to what we were starting
02:32:39.300Well, and this is kind of what I was going to start with, which is that we'll get into
02:32:42.740a lot of your ideas and they're very interesting things.
02:32:45.680And I'm sure like I don't you and I might not agree on everything.
02:32:49.700And there's a lot of people who might not agree on everything.
02:32:52.140But I wanted to point out an interesting thing, which is that, you know, if you look at how like your posts online, sometimes they can be very trollish and somewhat confrontational.
02:33:02.980And I was always stricken by every time I spoke to you, you were the most calm and collected and like chill guy, which is I guess a lot of us are the same.
02:33:14.760But I think the thing I was always starting with was that, you know, what do you actually believe in your post?
02:33:23.320Do you actually that's kind of a big question. Do you enjoy trolling people and kind of getting a rise out of people?
02:33:31.900So do I enjoy trolling people and getting a rise out of people? I would be lying if I said, no, I don't.
02:33:37.460I think a little bit of that nature to just get a strong reaction from people is something that's typical of extroverted people.
02:33:46.460I would self-describe this quite extroverted.
02:34:01.660I think any kind of engagement, any kind of social engagement is something that I'm going for.
02:34:06.880Now, of course, upsetting people is one way to do it, but that's not my go-to method.
02:34:11.920It's just something that I use within a specific context.
02:34:14.700Of course, my preferred method is genuine sincerity.
02:34:17.960I want to have a genuine and sincere conversation where we can open our hearts to each other and discuss things in a way that is in good faith.
02:34:26.320Now, I can't obviously have that with everyone because there are people that don't like me.
02:34:30.240Now, for the people that don't like me, yes, I do somewhat get enjoyment out of getting a rise out of them, because even that is some kind of engagement. And maybe today they might be upset, but maybe one day they might reconsider and try to approach me in a different way. So that's the reason why I do it.
02:34:47.000And I was going to ask you, and this is probably one of the things at the top that we should address. I've heard you address this many times before in various interviews, but the name the fascist itself is a bit of an inside joke. Maybe not as much as someone like Big Papa fascist, but you had said it was a combination of fascist and pacifist.
02:35:08.120but would you call yourself a fascist in any regard? Or is it just kind of a funny name? Or
02:35:16.800do you still sort of borrow from that intellectual movement?
02:35:20.820So my interest in the intellectual movement has nothing to do with my name. The fascifist,
02:35:26.240as you correctly mentioned, is nothing more than an inside joke. It's an amalgamation of fascist
02:35:31.740and pacifist, which are two contradictory terms. Of course, if you study the history of pacifism
02:35:37.260in Europe, you'll trace it back to the Enlightenment, and it's a completely core liberal
02:35:41.360value, which fascism completely rejects. So it's a contradicting name, really. But yeah,
02:35:47.280my interest in fascism proper has more to do with my academic interests. I'm interested
02:35:53.480in 20th century ideology and 20th century history. And the three big currents that were
02:35:59.980prominent at that time were, as you know, liberalism, communism, and fascism. So of
02:36:06.060course, I have an intellectual interest in the third as well. But that has nothing to do with my
02:36:11.620name. I was going to ask you, in the groups that you somewhat travel around in, and a lot of our
02:36:19.980common friends and colleagues, there's a lot of appreciation of sort of the crossover between
02:36:27.580fascism and Marxism and anarchism. There's a lot of writing on this on the fashion newsletter.
02:36:32.720And I know a lot of people who are familiar with you would ask this, but I was curious, would you call yourself like a Nazball? Or would you call yourself affiliated with that at all?
02:36:43.760Well, my affiliation, again, would not be on any kind of active political grounds. It would purely be on an academic basis. It would be because like I said, I have an interest in political theory. And I see a lot of overlap between various political ideologies.
02:37:18.620For me, it's not about seeing the world in black and white and then aligning myself
02:37:22.300with something that I agree with or disagree with.
02:37:25.180And it's more so trying to understand all of it, even the things that I find disagreeable, as well as the things that I find agreeable.0.84
02:37:31.780So I would not describe myself as a Nazbol because that would be taking an active political position.0.96
02:37:37.760Yeah. And what's interesting is, and this is what I appreciate and a lot of the writers in our scene who really dive into the history of it, is you really do see the overlap between movements like fascism and then also with anarchism.
02:37:52.420And then also with like, there was certain flashpoints in the history where there's a cauldron of ideological development and the boundaries between them were a lot more blurred. And I find the history behind like who developed what and they were who should be enemies were in fact best friends. I find that so fascinating. And once you see that, you're like, oh, it's not so black and white, as you had said.
02:38:19.040um and i remember that another bit of insight into this uh how i suppose your reputation can
02:38:27.700precede you because i would say when would this have been a year ago there was you and myself
02:38:33.600and zoltanus and we were on an impromptu stream and it was about uh the work of alexander dugan
02:38:39.920and this thing called duganism and this is kind of the reason you might get grouped in with being
02:38:45.080and Nazbol. And by that, for people who don't know, I mean a national Bolshevik. It's kind of a
02:38:50.280kind of niche sort of belief system that's somewhat popular on the right. But what was
02:38:55.660interesting was on the stream that we were on, we were discussing the work of Dugan and
02:39:00.320multipolarity and things like that. And we were all pretty critical of Dugan. And I remember
02:39:06.320at various points, you had outright said, I'm not Duganist. And I had said, I'm not Duganist.
02:39:11.100I'm like, you know, he says some things that make sense and a lot of stuff that doesn't,
02:39:14.560you know but then a lot of people just saw the title of the stream and said we all three of us
02:39:21.680were duganists and once i saw that happen i'm like oh this is how this runaway train gets started i0.76
02:39:28.680was talking to people and they were accusing me oh look these three fucking duganists i'm like0.93
02:39:33.200i we literally said the opposite he's like i didn't even watch it i'm like well there there0.98
02:39:37.800you fucking go like you can't even so i guess what i'm trying to say is even talking about this stuff0.91
02:39:43.840would seem to get you branded as that forever.0.99
02:40:12.720But, you know, it's crazy. The contradictory things that you get called, it really is telling. It shows the intellectual laziness of a lot of people. And I think it has to do with character development. This is also another reason why I've taken this very sharp pivot towards emphasizing psychology.
02:40:28.580For me, if I talk to someone, it's not so much very important what he does or doesn't believe or what he thinks or doesn't think about a specific thing.
02:40:37.780It's more so his character. Can he engage with me? Can he talk to me in good faith, regardless of what he believes, regardless of whether we agree or disagree?
02:40:47.560That to me is more important than what he actually believes or what he actually thinks.
02:40:53.540So that's always been the case for a long time, but I've really emphasized it publicly more and more the past few weeks and months.
02:41:00.820You know what? I'm seeing a similar sort of attitude across the right broadly right now.
02:41:07.360I see a lot of people in various little sectors, you know, getting tired of ideology or trying to cut through ideology or people seeing ideology more as as one might side with a sports team.
02:41:21.620or something you do in your youth. And so I know like guys in our scene who completely reject
02:41:26.040ideology and they're just about, you know, economics and trade. And then I know other
02:41:30.380people have rejected ideology and then just go right into, you know, spirituality and theology
02:41:36.580and stuff like that. So it just seems like a, an interesting development in the scene that I didn't,
02:41:41.740I don't think you would have seen that five years ago. And, um, some people see that as a breakdown
02:41:47.260And I see it maybe more as people trying to get to the roots of what the issues are in society and having to go deeper and deeper and deeper.
02:41:55.640And like I was saying, the more you get into history, the more you see that's not just about competing ideological teams.
02:42:06.220And I guess I was going to – there's a couple of things I wanted to start with.
02:42:10.180And I think they're important is the reason I bring it up.
02:42:13.520And again, I don't want to say it in a confrontational way, but I think it's relevant that you find yourself in a scene in the far right that's dominated primarily by race realists.0.60
02:42:27.000I would argue mostly white, although I think half the people who say they're white are probably Hispanic, but we're used to that.
02:42:35.020But yourself, you are, and correct me if I'm wrong, are you of an Indian extraction?
02:42:42.360Yes. And this will sound like a backhanded compliment, very well spoken. But I know that this is something that you've probably had to come up against in the scene with your ethnic heritage. Has that informed how you approach the individuals in the scene? Has that worked against you? Or has that worked in your favor in some ways? I just wanted to know maybe your story of being in the scene as an individual like that.
02:43:10.820Well, it's difficult to say because I've never hidden my ethnic heritage. I've talked about it since day one that I've started to become prominent on social media. So back in the good old days when I was just on Bitchute, I was quite open about that.
02:43:28.920there's videos going back to god knows when where I talk about my heritage so it's not like some
02:43:34.480because there's some people that accuse me of being secretive and then suddenly it gets
02:43:39.760publicized and popularized the you know what exactly I am and then they they make it like
02:43:45.920some kind of gotcha moment like his secret's out now we know the truth about the fascist and it's
02:43:50.940like this information has been out there for a long time I've been very open about all of that
02:43:56.080stuff i've never hidden any of it the the issue has been always that people have assumed things
02:44:00.920about me you know they have these little caricatures or not even caricatures these
02:44:05.900these expectations of me based on what i do say and what they do like that therefore that also
02:44:11.300must be true about him and so when they find out that it's not then of course they they they have
02:44:17.000this uh crisis basically they feel betrayed somehow that's how i interpret this and um i i
02:44:23.980think for those people it worked it worked against me but then again those are not like quality
02:44:28.960people that I want on my side anyway until they have some actual character development and uh
02:44:34.780they grow as people to where to the point where this stuff doesn't matter anymore I think I
02:44:39.640consider them trivial things and they get up in arms over these trivial matters so for me my
02:44:45.400heritage has never really played a role uh personally but then again I could also be wrong
02:44:50.520I'm not it's not like I've self-reflected on exactly how much of an influence this plays on the psychology of others.
02:44:57.800But for me, it's never been a driving force in anything that I've said or done online.
02:45:04.600That's a great, interesting way of looking at it.
02:45:07.340And I suppose those white nationalists would be your primary detractors in the scene and perhaps even within white nationalism, a subset of particularly vocal ones.
02:45:40.540When I judge white nationalists and white nationalists, I'm judging by the ones that are vocal because those are the ones I can interact with.
02:45:47.200I can't interact with the ones that aren't vocal because I don't know what they're thinking.
02:45:56.320And those vocal ones have a specific kind of psychology.
02:45:58.820They have a specific kind of worldview.
02:46:00.660They interact a certain way and say, you know, the same things.
02:46:04.840And you begin to really develop this kind of idea of who they are and what they are as a group of people.
02:46:12.100and what's interesting about the way you do it because um a lot of the ideas that you discuss
02:46:18.620are not particularly offensive to the majority of people and a lot of people would find these
02:46:25.340ideas offensive uh if they were exhibited by a white guy who looks a certain way and i was
02:46:31.700wondering is there anything that kind of keeps you interested in this scene or would someone
02:46:38.460like you'd be looking to branch outward outside of what we might call the dissonant right or do
02:46:43.580you kind of do you like it here essentially is what i'm asking uh yeah i i do like it here but
02:46:49.860it doesn't mean that i want to stay here so my rhetoric and what i say is tailored of course to
02:46:56.100multiple groups of people obviously because a telegram as a virtual space is uh insatuated
02:47:02.700with these specific kinds of people and these specific kinds of groups but i don't limit myself
02:47:07.500Obviously, my rhetoric is meant to branch out beyond that as well.
02:47:11.120So you'll notice a lot of my rhetoric actually has huge overlap with what progressive liberals say.
02:47:17.700And I think, you know, I don't mean to toot my own horn here, but the genius of my approach is that I'm trying to take the rhetoric of the progressive liberals and just expand upon it and lead it to what I think is its organic conclusion.
02:47:32.160And so when I use my rhetoric with, let's say, a progressive liberal, they're left dumbfounded. They don't know how to respond. They don't know what to say because I use their language and their logic against them in a way that they can't deny because, you know, what are they going to do?
02:47:49.900They're not going to accuse you of being, you know, anti-scientific or anti-factual.
02:47:55.900This isn't what happened, et cetera, et cetera, because it's the same stuff that they're espousing.
02:48:00.160But I'm just clarifying it. And this drives them insane.
02:48:03.540I've had these encounters with with these types on Discord because, you know, from time to time I go on Discord and I enter these political chats where there's a lot of progressive liberals or even even classical liberals.
02:48:15.420And, you know, they're anti-racist in the liberal sense. And I'm confronting them for their white supremacy. I'm accusing them of being white supremacists. And they're just dumbfounded. How can you accuse me of being a white supremacist?
02:48:31.760And then I point out to them that philosophically speaking, what you're attacking is a prior iteration of liberalism.
02:48:37.760That's what you call white supremacy. But I'm trying to show you that your progressive liberalism and your values, based on your presuppositions, are the same as theirs.
02:48:46.880You're just going in the other direction, but you're still within the same paradigm.
02:48:50.080And your philosophy, what you're espousing, is far more aggressive. It is a far worse iteration of white supremacy than the one you claim to oppose.
02:48:58.720And I have yet to have any progressive liberal that didn't completely shut down at that rhetoric because they have nothing to say.
02:49:07.160yeah that's um something we had discussed on the show a couple times even with um i spoke with a
02:49:13.380guy by the name of anglo ortho recently and we were talking about the concept of universalism
02:49:19.580versus particularism um and we discussed this on the show when we went into like the history of
02:49:25.660liberalism over the past few episodes and the tendency in the post-enlightenment uh sort of
02:49:31.460weaponized rationalism of Europe to try and project it. And the moment you start deciding
02:49:36.980a certain type of rationalism is universal, and then try and project that. And oftentimes,
02:49:43.280this is what the first thing that conservatives say that our nation building isn't working. It's
02:49:49.200like, yes, true, in practice, but what is the deeper problem with that? The problem is trying
02:49:55.420to project a very particular type of European rationality, project that across the entire
02:50:01.860world and essentially practice imperialism to do it.
02:50:05.460And so you can come at that from a liberal angle, a conservative angle.
02:50:10.720You can even come back from a leftist angle if you want to.
02:50:12.940But it just seems that everyone has decided it's not going to work, not ideologically,
02:50:23.140And that's covered in some of my papers, you know, like consciousness is the basis of reality.
02:50:27.720So that European rationalism, it's a specific consciousness that's contextually based on a specific group of people that underwent certain experiences together.
02:50:37.460So why would you assume that that's universally true for everyone else that didn't go through those experiences?
02:50:43.020So it's a matter of consciousness, right?
02:50:45.360So something that might be considered objective in a specific consciousness is in fact not really objective.
02:50:53.140Exactly. And we would always phrase it in such a way to try and keep other groups happy. We could say that the Enlightenment is a uniquely European phenomenon, so we could just keep it there. And I always made the claim that I think liberalism can only be unworked from people who have grown up through it.
02:51:12.540And I think a lot of people look towards Islam as the antidote for liberalism. I think only Western liberals can essentially deconstruct liberalism or pass through it or evolve it or work through it in that way. No one else is going to come save the West from liberalism, I guess is the point.0.85
02:51:34.640yeah it's gonna take it's gonna take a western post-modernist that isn't uh like a shit lib like0.92
02:51:40.660it's gonna take an illiberal post-modernist exactly and once once you phrase it like that0.81
02:51:46.260like people kind of perk up because a lot of these ideas they're just phrased in a way not not you
02:51:51.700specifically but a lot of ideas in our scene are pretty popular to people as long as we don't1.00
02:51:57.900scream them with slurs which is something i'm bad at i'm one of these slur guys but i do it
02:52:04.180i just say so many of them at once they think it's incoherent i make up new slurs i make up0.53
02:52:09.200new racisms i've been telling everyone koreans can't turn left for years and and you can't prove0.96
02:52:17.500it but you know what they can't disprove it that's how you get the shit lib you bank on the fact that0.84
02:52:21.760they don't know any koreans so maybe i'm right right right yeah now i just i'm just making i'm0.93
02:52:27.460making the world a fun place you want to live in.
02:52:31.600So like I said, we can get into some of your writing as well
02:54:21.440I mean, it sounds to me like all he did was he took the titles of some of the papers I wrote and then used them in these sentences because those are literally the titles of the papers I wrote.
02:55:29.160So it's trying to distinguish actual being, which is timeless, from this concept of history.
02:55:38.160I don't believe in a history of being.
02:55:41.580I don't think there's an objective history of being. So this is why history is fundamentally subjective. You will have particular groups of people and individuals that will remember things differently, and they're all informed by their respective consciousness, consciousnesses, if you will.
02:56:00.100So this is why I think, for example, one person's hero may be another person's villain.
02:56:07.160For one, you know, one person may say this person died in a bunker, and then another
02:56:11.800one will say, no, he escaped, he escaped to another country.
02:56:14.880So it's like, it's a matter of belief, really, that's what it fundamentally boils down to.
02:56:19.480So to say that there is an objective history of everything, I think is flawed, because
02:56:25.300how do you, by what standard do you define an objective history?
02:56:39.460Natural revelation is the five senses.
02:56:41.760And we know our senses are flawed, right?
02:56:44.180We trust them enough to construct our realities.
02:56:49.620But to say that this is ultimate reality, I think to me it's profane.
02:56:54.280Because I think that's something that we can only say about God.
02:56:57.080Only God understands being in that way.
02:56:59.200we are very limited. We are limited to our consciousness, which is, of course, again,
02:57:03.360like I said, limited to our five senses. You know, what's funny is that we've talked about
02:57:08.460this on the show before, especially when we get in ancient history, because the things that we
02:57:14.040want to know the most about human development and history, we will never know with any sort
02:57:19.260of accuracy. And by which I mean things from the far, far ancient world, pre-Bronze Age,
02:57:25.700because we got a few a pretty good conception of things that kind of happen around bronze age
02:57:30.040but as you go back you just get into mythology history is indistinguishable from mythology
02:57:36.640and uh a couple i know there's one book i've always really liked um and we interviewed the
02:57:41.980author dennis bouvard he's published by imperium press he had the book anthropomorphics and we
02:57:47.680also covered a julian james uh the breakdown of the bicameral mind but when you're dealing with
02:57:53.300this like prehistory stuff it's all supposition and so a lot of historians don't like to talk
02:57:58.720about that but it is relevant what because who doesn't want to know the earliest civilizations
02:58:04.020and that's where you get into things like the development of language how did language develop
02:58:08.580we don't know but it's crucial way more crucial than people give it credit for so if you want to
02:58:14.680talk about that stuff at all you almost need to just make it up in a sense not make it up but it's
02:58:21.640like you have to deal in mythological terms to talk about how and that's very much what
02:58:27.480Dennis Bouvard did when he saw hypothesizing how we kind of came up with this thing called
02:58:33.540language and you have to you have to understand it in metaphysical terms correct especially if
02:58:40.720you're a follower of um a lot of people don't like him Julian Jaynes but uh he was taking kind
02:58:46.040of a scientific approach and trying to say that quite literally back then biologically our brains
02:58:52.360were different and we could not really distinguish between our own interior uh interior monologues
02:59:00.640and our conscious versus what we thought were like the voices of the dead now that's kind of
02:59:04.100a fringe theory but it's it's all in the same soup you know it's all like you know you were
02:59:09.680dealing with a different type of reality back then yeah so to almost get to any perennial truth
02:59:17.120even in the modern day you need to be dealing you have to be painting with a mythological brush i
02:59:21.520suppose is what i'm saying um and what's interesting here just uh keep on track of the
02:59:27.800thing i was referencing again telling me if this is um not true or if zolt gets it wrong again um
02:59:36.020He says, the fascifist holds the view that race is the ability to think a certain way.
02:59:43.100This definition of race comes from the 1938 Hitler Youth Manual by Helmut Stelrecht called Faith in Action.
02:59:50.260It is based on the Hegelian view of race, which holds consciousness as the fundamental basis of race.
02:59:58.300And he says he likes this view because it harmonizes race, class and caste into a singular concept.
03:00:05.200concept. Now, again, does that sound accurate? And if it is, could you expand on that at all?
03:00:11.700Yeah, that's pretty accurate. I think a lot of these distinctions, such as what's the difference
03:00:17.280between class and caste, for example, I think these are modern distinctions that have to do
03:00:21.740with the way civilizations and cultures developed over time. But ultimately, if you get to the
03:00:27.720philosophic roots of these distinctions, you will see that they originate out of a singular concept.
03:00:31.880So that's what he's getting at. If you take a look at the caste system, for example, in ancient India, it was a way to manage labor, right? And if you trace back the history of class in Europe, you'll see that it was the same thing. So yeah, class and caste are in fact synonymous terms at their origin point. They're just distinguished in a certain cultural context.
03:00:56.560so do you think we've evolved past that or change that or do you think that's all still very present
03:01:03.220in how we understand race and things like that i i think i think it is yeah because i hold the
03:01:10.800view that race is ontological right again what is ontology it is the study of being and if you
03:01:16.220go by that definition that um how much stelrecht uses race means the ability to think a certain way
03:01:21.700You will see that what defines you as a person and the group that you belong to is your ability to think a certain way, to harmonize with the consciousness of someone else that is like you.
03:01:36.040That's ultimately what a group of people is.
03:01:38.660A social group is a group of people that are harmonized in consciousness and organically bound together.
03:01:44.520Now, there are many pillars that go into what harmonizes a group of minds into a common consciousness.
03:01:54.640But the point is that that is ontologically how we understand a group of people that are bound together and distinct from other groups of people.
03:04:26.880So for example, this idea that the English people always existed, that's not true, obviously.
03:04:31.720They have various different heritages, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Scandinavian, right, or as you said, Viking, and these all came together. They had some kind of interaction. They fought. Maybe they also had some peacetime together and bred together, et cetera, et cetera.
03:04:51.120But over time, that eventually created what we today call the English people or the Irish people, et cetera, et cetera. So this notion that race is something that is purely concrete, that it isn't something that is always fluctuating, that isn't something that is social.
03:05:08.820This is another issue I have with white nationalists. They try to use biology as the justification or the basis of race. But the problem with doing that is that what they then later do when they politicize the concept is they take what is supposed to be a taxonomical description and try to change it into an ontological prescription.
03:05:33.280So, for example, and they do this with biology as well.
03:05:36.040For example, they talk about a man being XY and a woman being XX.0.94
03:05:41.480Sure, I agree. That's perfectly fine.1.00
03:05:43.680But that doesn't tell you why women should wear skirts instead of jeans, right?
03:05:47.820That has nothing to do with biology.0.79
03:05:51.080So, you know, for example, black people.
03:05:53.440Black people, they have a certain kind of skin tone or within a certain range, let's say.
03:06:00.000Some are lighter, some are darker, obviously.0.98
03:06:02.120But that's all fine and dandy if you want to use biological terms and justifications for that stuff, because that's descriptive.
03:06:09.060But when you're going into prescription, you know, being black or not being black doesn't tell you why you should or shouldn't sag your pants, right?
03:06:20.040So if you're going to use race in a political context, you're talking about aughts.
03:06:24.320You're talking about prescriptions.1.00
03:06:26.060A black person should be like this.1.00
03:06:27.780A white person should be like this.1.00
03:06:29.760A yellow person should be like this.1.00
03:06:31.400a brown person should be like this. Well, you're not talking about descriptions anymore. You're0.99
03:06:35.860talking about prescriptions. So now it's clear that race cannot be biological. It has to be
03:06:40.900sociological, psychological, and ontological because you're talking about aughts. You're
03:06:45.380not talking about descriptions anymore. Would ontological be about the same as biological
03:06:52.100though? Because ontological would be like almost like the pure, the essence of that type of person.
03:06:57.820I think it has more to do with metaphysics. So when you're talking about biology, it's a very straightforward scientific field. And again, like I said, it has to do with descriptions. I understand the way I understand biology, I could be wrong. But biology describes phenomena that is perceived. It doesn't tell you how things should be, it tells you how they are. Right? So that's what that's what it is. It's description. But when you're talking about ontology, I think that does, that does actually extend.
03:07:27.820And it doesn't just limit itself to being, but it extends into the field of becoming.
03:07:34.000And is this sort of thinking what makes, and this is kind of what I wanted to get to next,
03:07:40.460is this sort of dialogue what makes former white nationalists interested in you?
03:07:46.620And by, when I say this, you had been so kind as to forward me a conversation you had had on your,
03:07:55.760I believe this might be on your channel as well, but it was a former white nationalist who used to hate you, used to be against you, then came to you and said, you were right, which is something you never hear on Telegram.
03:08:11.680I know I've been right with people, and they've never told me I was right.
03:08:16.040And I hate that, and they should do better.
03:08:20.400But he came to you and said, I used to be this, now I'm this.
03:08:23.260Now I'm a Christian and I did do people, I guess what I'm trying to say is with the thing you just said, do you find that you have a lot of former white nationalists coming over to your side?
03:08:37.120And if you would like to maybe summarize that thread you had showed me just for the folks at home.
03:08:44.340Yeah. So the summary of the thread before I go into my commentary on it is that there was this guy that messaged me three days ago.
03:09:09.600And he told me right away that he saw this debate between two YouTubers.
03:09:15.900um i didn't watch the video but it's this guy named um daniel eager eager true do you know the
03:09:23.420guy um um i actually i think there was a video was this like a muslim guy i think so yeah he's
03:09:31.960a muslim guy and he does really good apologetics i i never watched him so i can't comment too much
03:09:38.100i really don't know enough but uh a lot of the people that that you know talk to me about him
03:09:43.560say very good things about him. And in this specific video, in this specific debate, he was
03:09:49.560trying to underline what the West is and what the essence of the West is and what liberalism
03:09:57.680actually is. And he was basically, again, like I said, I didn't watch it, so I can't speak with
03:10:01.840full confidence here, but he basically tied liberalism and white identity together in some
03:10:07.580way to the point where this guy now, after watching this interview or this debate, he comes to me
03:10:13.460You know, he felt this urge to message me and say, you were right. You know, I knew I knew that these were your positions. This is this is stuff you had been posting about for a long time. But I used to ignore your points or your sorry, your posts. And I had no interest in them because I was so just completely enamored with my.
03:10:32.640And these are his words, his racial idolatry. I wouldn't use those terms. I would just call it idolatry. It doesn't matter what kind it is. But yeah, he was very apologetic. And I could tell that he was very sincere.
03:10:46.620again completely out of the blue i don't really expect people to dm me like that out of the blue
03:10:51.860saying the things that he did um again if anyone is interested they can message me uh and i can
03:10:58.560give them a link to my uh my uh philosophy channel it's all it's all archived there there's a lot of
03:11:05.020interesting threads there but yeah that's basically the summary so i'm sorry what was the question
03:11:09.980after that oh no it's just good well i'm gonna say something but then the the kind of the purpose i
03:11:16.040was was if you wanted to maybe go into a detail more about what he was rejecting but i just wanted
03:11:23.780to point out that before we do that that this is a common fork in the road i've seen over the past
03:11:30.340few years um and we had spoken on the show before uh giving the example of richard spencer a lot of
03:11:36.640people would kind of laugh at richard spencer they call him always just like a racist liberal now or
03:11:41.600maybe he's not even racist maybe he's just a liberal and i think he came to the same crossroads
03:11:46.640that a lot of people do where what we've been talking about this entire time is people and we
03:11:52.060discussed this at the start of the show about people realizing that this enlightenment era
03:11:58.880post-enlightenment rationalism liberalism is born out of the western european mind uniquely
03:12:05.600and then they'll come to that conclusion and then they have to decide what they're going to do with
03:12:10.000that. Now, some people will take that and say, you know what? I like liberalism now, whereas they
03:12:16.060would have hated liberalism before. And I think that's what happened with Richard Spencer and
03:12:21.020many others. And actually, I've got nothing really against that. I think that that's an
03:12:25.620interesting road to go down. And I wanted you on because I'm seeing this is an example of someone
03:12:30.840taking the other fork of the road. Correct. It's saying that, you know what? I still hate
03:12:36.060liberalism and because i do i must necessarily reject this sort of western european identity
03:12:44.200and you don't really see that a lot but i think you're kind of the king of that right now you got
03:12:49.440you're collecting all these guys um and i was just wondering is is the guy of that we're referring to
03:12:55.720is that have you heard have you had a guys like that before like former anti-liberal white
03:13:02.400nationalists who kind of pivot and in rejecting liberalism is that kind of like a big part of
03:13:07.280your audience absolutely they're a huge population in my circle yeah absolutely i mean i've got one
03:13:13.280very close guy he goes by regulus um he used to be a white supremacist like three four years ago
03:13:19.220not not a white nationalist an actual white supremacist um and then i have like at least
03:13:25.800three or four others that i could name that used to be white nationalists that are no longer white
03:13:29.980nationalists. They went a step further. They rejected white identity altogether. Obviously,
03:13:35.500they still use it as a descriptive. So when they fill out those race forms, they still put W
03:13:39.320because, you know, what are you going to do? But they don't use white identity as some kind of
03:13:45.180social political tool to further their politics anymore. They don't do that anymore. They abandon
03:13:49.420that completely. Now, in your mind, I know that in the thread we were talking about with that
03:13:56.800individual, he was claiming that he was worshiping his race, that it was a sort of racial idolatry,
03:14:04.660which you had said. Now, would it be in your mind possible for someone to be a race realist or a,
03:14:11.880let's say a white nationalist still, but also incorporate some of these higher minded ideas
03:14:17.580and not worship their race, but still kind of keep it in the mix? Or do you think it should
03:14:22.880be rejected outright? No, they can do it, but they have to be careful in how they do it,
03:14:28.280because they would have to change the very ontological essence of whiteness as I have0.73
03:14:33.340laid out and understood it. So for example, one example is in Belarusia, Belarus actually means
03:14:39.880white Russia. So Belarusians are white Russians, but the term white in white Russians does not
03:14:46.200denote liberalism. It denotes orthodoxy, Christian orthodoxy. So if you were a Christian orthodox,
03:14:52.080you were a white Russian. It has nothing to do with what it affirms in the Anglo-Saxon West.
03:14:59.160When you say white in the Anglo-Saxon West, it has a completely different ontological meaning
03:15:03.460than what it does in the Russian context. So here you have a clear example of it being used,
03:15:09.500the term white specifically being used in a very different way. So if you want to completely
03:15:14.560redefine white and what it actually means, you can do it. I just don't think it's productive.0.98
03:15:27.700Do you find any commonalities with, let's say they reject this former way of belief?
03:15:33.700I know yourself, you are a Christian, a prayed devout Christian.
03:15:37.680Is Christianity essential to this sort of change, or have you seen it, people do it
03:15:43.940without having to take any sort of theological approach to it?
03:15:48.240So it's essential to me and to those that were moved by Christianity and the Christian faith, but I don't think it's limited to Christianity. I think you can do this through other established religions. Islam is another example. I'm not too familiar with other religions outside of these two examples, because I don't really interact with people that identify with other religions, at least not intimately enough to the point where I can say they too have been affected in this positive way that I and our Muslim associates have been.
03:16:16.260but i you know the muslim examples uh like i said we have muslims in our chats as well
03:16:21.620uh they they are on the same psychological wavelength as we are when it comes to
03:16:26.680identity and race and all these different things yeah well i think um and i can hear a lot of our
03:16:32.660audience kind of yelling at the screen now but a lot of people would probably argue that outside
03:16:38.380side of christianity islam and you know juneism uh they they probably don't there aren't like
03:16:45.920religions as such you know i mean like if you look at if you have any insight into what's going0.96
03:16:51.400on in china china is a really fucked up belief system like they they're hyper their belief0.89
03:16:56.600system is one of the most hyper materialist ones you're gonna find um and i got my co-host lived0.83
03:17:02.920in china for quite some time but you know it's a lot of kind of smattering of very strange regional
03:17:09.000pagan stuff and like worshiping money gods and things like that yeah um and i don't know where
03:17:14.940a lot of people like buddhism i'm sure i'm sure people could kind of slap that on top of it but
03:17:19.860i think it seems at least from what i've seen if people are looking for uh an alternative or
03:17:27.320something to get into to answer some of these higher minded questions i think you got to go
03:17:32.520christianity or islam i mean i don't know much about islam but they seem to be a contender i
03:17:38.220don't know a lot of people from our side who've converted to judaism so maybe that's possible to
03:17:43.640never see to happen we should send one in just as a spy to tell us what it's like at this point
03:17:49.060once we're really hurting for content that's going to be one of our arcs as we just convert
03:17:55.540to judaism and just that's going to be before the meth arc because i've been really thinking that
03:18:02.020you know getting into meth for a while might be cool for the show
03:18:06.500I got all kinds of ideas I'm really I'm like an ideas guy
03:18:11.420but I was going to ask you about on the topic of Christianity was that something that
03:18:18.540you were always with or is that something that you've kind of adopted over time
03:18:23.180no it was always a core tenant of my online presence since the day that I've made content
03:18:30.780and made a name for myself under the moniker, the fascifist,
03:18:34.840I've always emphasized religion and especially specifically in my case,
03:18:39.720because I'm a Christian, Christianity as the fundamental basis
03:18:44.120of everything that you should use to formulate a worldview.
03:18:48.880So anytime you want to formulate a worldview, you fall back on Christianity.
03:18:53.660If you're a Christian and if you're not a Christian,
03:18:56.000then just religion in general, that's always been my thing.
03:18:59.360you know what it's amusing that as i've done these interviews we've done quite a bit
03:19:04.080there's a lot of people who like i go into it knowing that they're christian like i know that's
03:19:09.100what the distributist for example is big on but i would say by accident more than half the people
03:19:16.380i've talked to have been christian like i remember speaking to thomas 777 and he was big christian
03:19:23.020and i'm like i would not have guessed that from look i you know guys with rings like you know
03:19:28.860tend to be pagan guys but yeah you know a lot of them just ended up being christian and that's for
03:19:33.460you like i would have not have clocked you as that individual but like as reading your stuff that was
03:19:38.620very central to your belief system that's why i thought it was uh interesting um on that topic
03:19:45.860you had a piece here that maybe you could speak to i know when i first uh heard of you and we were
03:19:52.100talking this was a big thing you're always talking about and the title of this piece was
03:19:56.620why America is an anti-Christian social order. Now I know, um, and you can correct me if I'm
03:20:04.420wrong, but I know that, um, sort of anti-Americanism has sat at the center of a lot of, um, your
03:20:11.540writing and your speaking and stuff. And A is, is that the case or am I wrong? And B, uh, if that
03:20:17.260is the case, would you mind expanding on that America being sort of an anti-Christian social
03:20:22.520order. Sure. Yeah. So, no, that is the case. Again, using those terms at face value, that is
03:20:29.200actually accurate. But we need to understand what I mean here by Americanism. When I say Americanism,
03:20:34.820I'm not talking about the people that live in the United States or even necessarily its governing
03:20:39.280rulers. I'm talking about a specific philosophy, a specific way of thinking about the world and
03:20:47.900your place in the world. That's what I mean by Americanism. It's more akin to a religion rather
03:20:53.740than some kind of ethnic identity or some kind of political identity. Americanism's presuppositions
03:21:01.840have a theological basis. That's why if you take a look at history, you have Pope Leo XIII writing
03:21:07.920against the heresy of Americanism. It's not talking about the people that live in the United States,
03:21:13.900whether they be just the average person or even their leaders. But it's talking about a mentality,
03:21:20.920a way of being, a way of thinking, a philosophy, governing principles of how to exist. That's what
03:21:29.620I'm talking about when I say Americanism. That should be very specifically clarified now. It's
03:21:35.080not some kind of ridiculous ethnic hatred. Yeah. And it's interesting in the piece,
03:21:40.600Just to also clarify, I think you were mainly taking aim at the founding fathers as well.
03:21:47.280And you've got a quote here from John Adams, wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 1825.
03:21:54.320He says, the Europeans are all deeply tainted with prejudices, both ecclesiastical and temporal, which they can never get rid of.
03:22:01.380They're all infected with creeds and confessions of faith.
03:22:04.680they'll believe that the great principle which has produced this boundless universe came down1.00
03:22:09.100to this little ball and spat to be spat upon by jews oh this is a cool letter um but uh yeah so0.71
03:22:16.880i guess your claim would be you should finish you should finish it because the ending is really0.95
03:22:21.920good and unto this awful blasphemy is gone rid of there will never be any liberals uh science in
03:22:28.720the world there you go yeah so so you you would say that uh america as a force in the world stage
03:22:35.880is itself a lot of people might even argue now that it's anti-christian you were saying
03:22:40.440in its founding it goes right back to the start right exactly yeah okay so um let me ask you this0.97
03:22:49.640because sometimes i couldn't tell if this was you kind of being a little a devilish stinker0.91
03:22:55.560But did you have any animosity towards the Anglos?0.97
03:23:00.480And I say this also because we've had a couple of people on the show, Scandinavians, who hate Anglos, hate Anglos more than Jews.0.72
03:24:56.760I understood that parliament was infested1.00
03:24:59.520with these Whig liberal Freemasons0.98
03:25:01.680that were very much opposed to the old order
03:25:05.040and opposed to His Majesty King George III
03:25:07.500and just the institution of monarchy in general.
03:25:10.900And I understood that there were a lot of traditionalist Tory Englishmen who really genuinely were anti-liberal. So I don't group all Anglos as synonymous when it comes to these philosophical strains of thought. It was just memes. Those memes were funny.
03:25:31.420when i when i say um not all anglos i mean it like it's not all anglos when i say all white people i
03:25:39.100do mean all white people that's well it's interesting because uh we talked about um
03:25:44.380some other characters from our scene and we spoke earlier in the show about ethnogenesis
03:25:49.760and i think right now i think certain people in certain groups are interested in a a new type of
03:25:57.820ethnogenesis for what they might call white people, then that would be sort of a pan-European
03:26:03.680movement of racial identity that would, I assume, kind of sweep away old hostilities and try and
03:26:10.960find some common middle ground, almost in a globalist sense. And I think in a globalist
03:26:18.560world, you do see this thing called an Asian person. What is an Asian person? These people
03:26:24.620were always hostile to each other. But when thrust into multicultural area, they kind of1.00
03:26:29.120identify with Asians. Now, I'm going to say, would you reject that sort of broad ethno-racial
03:26:36.360genesis just out on his face? What do you think about it? I know it's a weird question to ask,
03:26:41.120but it's something I kind of see being worked on. No, it sounds to me like you're describing
03:26:46.440a civilizational identity. I don't actually reject civilizational identities. I do think
03:26:51.560actually that, especially given the modern context, this liberal notion of national sovereignty and
03:26:59.140the right of self-determination for nations of people as sacrosanct, I don't believe in it. I
03:27:05.880think that's ridiculous. I think that sovereignty in general is a consequence of power. So he who0.66
03:27:12.060is most powerful is most sovereign, obviously. This means that more powerful nations are more
03:27:17.920sovereign than the less powerful nations. They're not equally sovereign. So given all of that being
03:27:23.620the case, I think that we are entering a phase now in the 21st century where we have to consider
03:27:29.600that perhaps nationalism isn't the way to go. It might actually be civilizationalism. And rather
03:27:35.900than still adhering to this bourgeois concept of the nation state, we have to move into the concept
03:27:41.240of the civilization state. And I think the civilization state is the, in my opinion,
03:27:46.500based on my judgments, it is the best way to oppose globalism. And I also have a very specific
03:27:52.340definition of globalism. So I would probably have to define that. So no, I don't disagree
03:27:56.780with the notion. I don't disagree with the notion.
03:27:58.960But would you be interested in defining globalism, like you just said?
03:28:03.860Yeah, absolutely. So for me, globalism isn't just world government, because some people reduce it
03:28:09.200to just world government. They say, it's when we have this state that basically controls the whole
03:28:14.240world. And they just leave it at that. That's not what globalism is for me. Globalism has a very
03:28:19.300specific philosophical foundation. It has very specific actors that are actively trying to
03:28:25.360manifest and maintain a worldwide hegemony. So what is globalism in very simple terms?
03:28:32.700It is liberal imperialism. It is the hegemony of the Atlanticist West. That's what it is.
03:28:40.700Right now, its basis or its capital is Washington, D.C.
03:28:45.260So globalism spreads out of Washington, D.C.
03:28:48.060That's the defining characteristic of globalism.
03:28:51.860It's liberalism, it's liberal world hegemony, and it's subordination of anything and everything that is not liberal under itself.
03:29:06.540I know that even though you would probably reject some of the workings, the works of Alexander Dugan, I know that from our last talk, you're very much interested in the sort of multipolarity paradigm, this idea of if we could remove the, you know, if everything you said is true, let's assume it is.
03:29:29.880let's say it's all come from DC, and we remove that fulcrum of power, could what could you
03:29:37.060pursue a world where all of the power is balanced? Is that kind of something that you're interested
03:29:42.880in? Yeah, that's what I'm interested in. I do believe, for example, we talked earlier about
03:29:48.100universalism versus particularism. I don't think there's necessarily a dialectical tension
03:29:52.980between the two. I do believe you can have both universalism and particularism, you can have
03:29:58.120a symbiosis, an organic symbiosis, or I would say synergetic symbiosis between these two concepts
03:30:04.960where, you know how the human body is one body, let's call it a universal body, but there are
03:30:11.160particular organs that are at peace with each other and they work together, and yet they're
03:30:15.480at the same time distinct from each other. And so there is this beautiful interplay between
03:30:20.140particularity and universality that is in harmony. So I do believe that it is possible to achieve a
03:30:26.820multipolar world where you don't need to have this one hegemonic power that's just completely
03:30:32.900controlling everything. I think this balance of power through multipolarity is possible. It should
03:30:40.400be pursued. And I think particularity should be respected, which liberalism does not do because
03:30:45.140liberalism enforces its liberal values on everyone and anything, regardless of whether any individual
03:30:51.420or group of people want it or not. It does it by force, right? So I think that that is inorganic,
03:30:59.220obviously. I have no issues with there being a universal philosophy if it's organically embraced
03:31:04.240by everyone. But if it's coerced and forced, it's going to cause problems, which is exactly what we
03:31:10.360see. That's why there's anti-Americanism. Now, the next question is probably a big blue sky
03:31:16.700abstract question but it's it's branching off what we just talked about do you have0.57
03:31:22.000i'm trying to phrase this where it doesn't sound retarded do you have a a sort of ideal world uh0.57
03:31:28.980would it be multi-polarity would it be the balance bar or do you have uh in your in fascifists0.80
03:31:34.920perfect world would for example fascism be a like a christian sort of fascism would that be on the
03:31:43.080table? Or is that more just particularism and you don't even want to think of it as like a
03:31:50.580big incorporated thing? Well, for me, what I emphasize is organic development. That's what
03:31:59.140I emphasize. So for me, it doesn't really matter. For example, like people talk about
03:32:02.880the issue of segregation versus integration versus assimilation. And I think they're focusing on the
03:32:09.080wrong things. I think that what really should be focused on is organic versus inorganic or
03:32:15.040artificial. So I have no issues with things like organic segregation, organic assimilation,
03:32:21.520and organic integration. My issue is with forced integration, forced segregation,
03:32:26.760and forced assimilation. I think that if we try to harmonize our entire world, we need to do it
03:32:34.820in an organic way in which it's done willingly.
03:32:38.000That's also what religion teaches us, right?
03:32:40.200Islam, for example, says there's no compulsion in religion.
03:32:43.500You're supposed to come to faith out of your own free will.
03:32:58.500You can't force someone to believe or disbelieve.
03:33:01.100You can't also force someone to disbelieve.
03:33:03.600So it has to be done organically. That's ultimately my focus. You know, people say I hate my enemies. I don't hate my enemies. I love my enemies, just as every Christian should. But the point is, the reason I do that is because I hope that one day they repent. And then, you know, today they might be my enemy, but tomorrow they might be my friend. That's the mindset. That's the mentality that I have. And that's also what Christians are taught to think.
03:33:31.060so yeah for me if if harmony is our goal it can't be forced harmony because that that would be
03:33:38.540artificial and that that would be wrong um i also don't want disharmony but if the disharmony is
03:33:44.220organic then so be it at least it's organic but whatever whatever we get harmony or disharmony
03:33:49.840it has to be organic that's that's my uh that's the emphasis yeah and i know uh when we spoke uh
03:33:56.620before by we i mean myself my co-host uh on penti lincola who's a deep ecologist some people
03:34:03.540might say an eco-fascist and you might call him sort of a radical naturalist where his it on the
03:34:11.200surface it sounds like he would be the biggest progressive in the world because he advocates
03:34:16.700for diversity but extreme diversity like he wants he doesn't want nature to be impeded on by humans
03:34:23.420at all even if it means you know don't cut down trees don't reorganize the forest and he said
03:34:28.820whatever must be done to maximize diversity in ecological systems even to the point of killing
03:34:35.58090 of humans like he goes off into like kind of crazy or it's like he's a big he's but to me the
03:34:41.280funny thing about pentilincola was uh my claim was if you are an environmentalist and you're
03:34:47.920seriously an environmentalist you gotta be an extreme one like him because he's like look i
03:34:53.060love the earth 90 of humans need to die to be in balance with nature i'm like well yeah i mean i
03:34:58.600don't necessarily believe that but i'm like if i was an environmentalist i would have to believe
03:35:03.700that like greta thunberg has to believe that or she's not serious right yeah but uh in that same
03:35:10.920way to to ink to balance out the the the natural this natural multipolarity if it is to exist
03:35:20.360there would have to necessarily I think be a period of turmoil to to settle that and maybe
03:35:27.180I don't know how long that's maybe that's a century who knows but perhaps it would all
03:35:32.160bounce like that um and there's something you know I'm kind of feeling my way in the dark on
03:35:38.760this next thing I'm going to say but um it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately
03:35:43.200when I was um I'm going to be pairing this interview with an episode where we discuss
03:35:49.420this book called Seeing Like a State. It's a very interesting book, and it's written by kind of an
03:35:54.780anarchistic-minded guy. But it's all about how various, usually socialists, but not always,
03:36:01.820sometimes monarchical, attempts to control society and control nature have gone terribly wrong.
03:36:10.360You know, like usually like trying to resettle people, you know, not even just the Maoist stuff,
03:36:15.740Not even just the great leap forward or millions and millions of peasants died, but also like any time like a government has tried to reorganize a forest to fit more trees in and do it in more of like a grid like pattern, it destroys the ecosystem.
03:36:31.180And at the heart of the critique, and this is what I'm trying to get at with your your point there about things being natural and things being organic.
03:36:40.420We say that all the time. Things need to be natural and organic.
03:36:42.620but what do we actually mean he's trying he's making a case that anytime you try and systematize
03:36:49.120nature it fails and anytime and this takes us back to the beginning of the conversation anytime
03:36:55.380you take a rule in a particular way and try universalize it it fails and usually causes
03:37:01.700hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths right so in in every single case it's like this sort of
03:37:06.920intention to bureaucratize everything and expand it out wider than it needs to be and systematize
03:37:13.560everything whereas conversely there there is an argument to be made that if we had if we
03:37:20.640razor focused our scientific skills we could see the code of the universe or something like that
03:37:27.220but odds are you're not going to be able to because nature and the universe and god and
03:37:32.320whatever people call it it's too complex and maybe it's too complex for the human mind to ever wrap
03:37:39.720its head around it and control it which is essentially what a lot of scientists want to do
03:37:43.940they want to control the universe and control nature but it's almost like every time we try
03:37:49.540and do that it leads to disaster and you almost need to trust that the the utter indecipherable0.98
03:37:57.940complexity of nature and growth can take care of things without you having your fucking hand on the0.96
03:38:05.660levers of everything in society i guess i don't know i'm just fumbling in my way in the dark a0.89
03:38:10.640little bit with that i'm trying to make maybe even a scientific or political argument why you know
03:38:17.560we shouldn't try and systematize and bureaucratize everything because it just seems to fail every
03:38:23.760single time. And you almost need to, in so many words, leave it up to God or leave it up to the
03:38:29.240forces at work. Does anything I said make sense there? Or am I just rambling?
03:38:35.560No, it makes perfect sense. I fully agree. I think this need to understand everything is
03:38:41.680perfectly in line with what's called the Faustian spirit. Because if you read Faust by Goethe,
03:38:47.280that's what he wanted to do. He wanted to conquer everything first by understanding everything.
03:38:51.900And I think that that's the fundamental flaw. I don't think man was made for that purpose. And again, I'm speaking here from my own Christianity, but man was made for organic relationship. He was made for things that are quite frankly intuitive, rather than rational.
03:39:09.680And I think even rationality, like I do believe in human rationality. I think that God gave us that faculty for his own divine purpose. But I think that the elevation and divinization of human rationality has been a huge mistake by Western thinkers.
03:39:27.500That's basically what the humanists did, especially the secular humanists.
03:39:30.860They basically functionally divinized human rationality and tried to subordinate every
03:39:36.500traditional concept of the supernatural under human rationality.
03:40:16.960So if God's plan is for us to harmonize with him and achieve theosis and share in his being in some specific way, if that is his plan, then we should be going for that instead of doing what we're currently doing, which is what Faust did.
03:40:33.340Because if you, again, read Faust, at the end, he regretted it.
03:45:17.840They're not going to get it through conservatives.
03:45:19.400So I think there will be, again, call me optimistic,
03:45:22.340but I think there's going to be much more attention
03:45:25.520on people like yourself and people in our scene.
03:45:30.860And I think right now we're seeing certain people
03:45:33.660get picked up by mainstream like conservatives and liberals to try and like answer the questions
03:45:39.780that the citizens have um and i'll say this i know we gotta get going soon because it's getting
03:45:45.520rather late and perhaps we could end on this um i was just curious on a personal level
03:45:53.320and i try and get a little bit personal with a lot of our guests uh with the things that that
03:46:00.380you say and you believe, has that affected your personal life at all? Maybe your working life or
03:46:06.440your family life? Does your family think you're crazy? Or how is your this sort of thinking
03:46:12.740affected your relationships? Well, they haven't really affected my relationships on the ends of
03:46:21.600the people that know the stuff that I'm talking about, but don't understand it. Because like I
03:46:27.060said, it goes over the heads of most people. It's too deep for most people. So that includes my
03:46:32.440family, for example. It's too complicated for them. So because it's too complicated, they don't
03:46:37.140make a big deal out of it. But from my point of view, it has affected my view of other people and
03:46:43.640my relationships to those other people. I've grown as a person and I've realized the intimacy
03:46:50.460of everything that I perceive everything is so deeply tied together and related and the smallest
03:46:57.460of things can influence just about what whatever comes out of that in a very big way so I mean
03:47:05.960you know people people make jokes about the Kabbalah and the you know Jewish Kabbalism but
03:47:11.560it's like I think there's something in Jewish Kabbalism that talks about this you know the
03:47:14.840butterfly effect or everything being connected and this is not obviously restricted to Judaism
03:47:19.400It's talked about in various ancient religions, but it's completely true.
03:47:25.420Consciousness is a process that develops over time for us because we are sense-based beings.
03:47:33.700We are beings that are shaped and molded by our experiences, and we make those experiences through our senses.
03:47:40.840And so that's how we form our consciousness.
03:47:42.880In a very real sense, our consciousness is limited by the senses because I believe that once these senses aren't there anymore, they're no longer limiting us, we actually develop a purer consciousness.
03:47:55.920I guess I've never done drugs, but this is what people that take things like DMT say.
03:48:00.420They say that when they take these drugs, they feel like they remove themselves from this sense-based reality and enter some kind of hyper-reality.
03:48:10.140this is the testimony of these these types of people it's also the testimony of people that
03:48:14.780suffered near-death experiences right people that uh die scientifically they die but they come back
03:48:20.580a few hours later they talk about their near-death experience and they describe it as hyper real
03:48:25.180they they say that it's so real that it makes everything that they experience with their sense
03:48:29.200based uh existence seem uh sub real rather than real right in comparison so this is again why i
03:48:37.120believe consciousness is the basis of reality because if this is the case then then ultimately
03:48:42.980yeah these are important questions that we have to address and um they have these things have
03:48:49.460definitely made me more cognizant in terms of how how much importance i place on them and it also
03:48:55.500has made me thus i mean just for practical uh to be practical it's made me more of a compassionate
03:49:01.220person more of a tolerant person not in a bad way i still have a huge intolerance for things that i
03:49:06.360that I find most obviously wicked, but I do see, you know, I do see the humanity in every single
03:49:12.000person, even the people that I don't like. And I genuinely hope and pray and wish that they get
03:49:17.140better, that anyone that is an enemy to me today might one day become a friend. That's the kind
03:49:23.620of mentality that developed more and more. Not that I didn't have it before, but that's the
03:49:28.080mindset that I have now. I want to win everyone if I can. And I know I can't. So, you know, just
03:49:34.600whatever god gives me whatever grace he bestows upon me i will i will accept but i don't have
03:49:41.120this i'm not i'm not consumed by emotions anymore uh good or bad if that makes sense well it's funny
03:49:48.140early on in a conversation you had made a comment about how uh the character of the individual that
03:49:54.480you're dealing with is increasingly important to you over time and i know uh in your life you are
03:50:00.080a married man and i think you have a child i think or am i mistaken that's correct yeah yeah i got
03:50:07.680i'm married and i got one on the way too um but i do find that that really does change you and that
03:50:15.020makes you a lot more balanced and that changes not only your attitude but i think it changes your
03:50:19.040entire mind space as well and so you know even in you know my dealings with people in this scene0.98
03:50:27.340it's always like the dads that just have their shit together. They're the coolest guys to talk0.86
03:50:32.020to. Um, and you, even the ones who like myself who have real schizo opinions do not come across
03:50:39.240as schizos, you know, at the very least, you know, you've got certain things taken care of
03:50:44.400in your life. So you're like someone that can be a talk to. And I think that for you, for example,
03:50:49.180like, even though you can have some of these contentious ideas, it's like, well, you have
03:50:53.020enough of your life sorted out more than most from what i can tell so you know i know some guys in
03:51:00.820our uh chat they're like i know my co-host he doesn't want to talk to anyone that doesn't have0.97
03:51:05.380kids he's not going to listen to anyone who doesn't have a fucking job and some kids so and0.99
03:51:11.420i'm i'm slowly becoming that of that mindset that like unless you got a fucking car and you got some0.99
03:51:20.880kids like i don't want to hear shit about the revolution i don't want to hear but even when0.99
03:51:25.920i was single i'm like i don't hear a bunch of fucking single guys talking about how they're0.99
03:51:30.100going to change the world that's why i can never be a futurist yeah right right right you could0.98
03:51:35.880just a bunch of single guys hanging out that's fucking and i i remember i had a couple of these0.96
03:51:40.940guys um i won't say their names but they had criticized me specifically because i was married0.97
03:51:46.720and then they had said something the effect if you could never be a part of the revolution0.58
03:51:51.080i'm like well fucking good luck then where's the revolution i'm waiting you know what i mean but
03:51:57.280just a bunch of guys hanging out talking about the revolution whereas all the guys who got their0.95
03:52:03.600figured out they're the ones who also have all the cars and guns so i don't know just a bunch0.77
03:52:07.920of fucking revolutionaries taking the bus i guess anyway anyway um i know it's rather late i know0.81
03:52:15.140you probably got it's a late night for you you've got a lot taken care of um and this has been a0.98
03:52:19.620fantastic talk uh thank you very much for taking the time and i wanted to say is there any other
03:52:24.700closing thoughts that you had or anything that's kind of burning a hole in your mind today yeah
03:52:31.020sure i think there is one thing that i would like to uh say in order to reach out to the people that
03:52:36.640are listening that don't have a very favorable opinion of me and don't like me i would like to
03:52:42.260say to them, look, I understand that you may disagree with a lot of things that I say that
03:52:49.680perhaps I advocate for, the things that I believe. That's perfectly fine. That's not my issue. My
03:52:56.720issue with you is your character, your psychology, your inability to confront me and actually come
03:53:03.120to me and have a conversation with me. Like it was mentioned earlier, there was this person
03:53:07.800who DM'd me three days ago, and he came, you know, he was a big man about it and said,
03:53:13.720I was wrong. You were right. And that's more than I expect from you people. I don't expect you to
03:53:19.200come and issue an apology and realize that you were wrong. That's not the point. You can maintain
03:53:24.200your positions. You can believe everything that you believe as you believe it. But at least have
03:53:30.700the integrity to reach out and say, can I have a good faith discussion about X, Y, and Z? And let's
03:53:36.840be social and let's talk about these things. But what you do instead is you go behind my back,
03:53:43.760you talk about me behind my back, you lie and slander, and you misrepresent what I actually
03:53:50.380say. Even though everything I say that is actually meant to be taken seriously is covered in my
03:53:55.820papers and you can just literally go read them, I don't think a lot of you actually do read it.
03:54:01.000So I would really ask you people, and you know who you are, to actually take some time, self-reflect, and think about what it means to be an actually social person.
03:54:13.640Because the way people act, you're not social, and it's not good for you.