00:00:56.400I thought a lot about this, that there's a process that some people go through when they get doxed, and it's not a big deal.
00:01:02.780In fact, sometimes they make money. They're doxed against their will a lot of times, Antifa or whoever gets them, and then that raises a flag.
00:01:12.560People circle the wagons, and they just get money somehow. Sometimes it's Peter Thiel, sometimes it's other individuals.
00:33:09.740on friendly terms and this is just posturing
00:33:11.960from the populace that might be so i mean i'm also reading in reuters that intelligence indicates
00:33:18.100that attack could be coming this is all based off of an attack in cashmere um so indian forces have
00:33:22.940been blowing up you just discount anything that happens in cashmere though like cashmere is
00:33:27.140i mean it's been a permanent war zone since like the 50s and there's no there's no real authority0.97
00:33:32.200there even to my understanding so oh some shit oh the house blew up in cashmere okay it's a day0.52
00:33:37.860that ends in why so yeah they exiled all of the ambassadors they're closing down airspace to me0.97
00:33:44.760this still counts as posturing i don't think like you said this happens all the time am i missing
00:33:51.000something what's this about it just seems like it's escalating escalating but if there is no
00:33:55.580real passionate you know there's no serious first cause this thing can be diffused momentarily this
00:34:03.080is more about what we're hoping for we get excited at the idea that oh it's world war three
00:34:08.440these two countries that we don't like might nuke each other yay but let's just take a step back
00:34:15.900is that gonna because that would be world war three i assume yeah oh yeah for sure it would
00:34:20.400or would it i don't know i don't know where the ally ships are drawn let's say
00:34:26.960pakistan nukes israel yeah you know what yeah i was gonna say india i said israel
00:34:33.080but let's say they do that they just sneak this i wonder though with india
00:34:40.080with india versus pakistan who's everybody who's on everybody's side is is the u.s really
00:34:47.400gonna come to israel's aid this is what i'm thinking like like first of all let me just
00:34:51.360with indian pakistan pakistan nukes india who's jumping to get involved nobody nobody i know0.67
00:35:00.800canada's tech they would we don't have any what are we gonna fucking do india is like is so much0.82
00:35:06.240bigger than us i say this all the time i never get tired of saying this india is like a hundred
00:35:10.860times bigger than canada in terms of its economy in terms of its armaments its army the indian army
00:35:16.000if it was just india and canada they could curb stomp canada in a day just by the number of bodies0.99
00:35:22.360that they have we are nothing we're so small which is why it bothers me with the fucking0.97
00:35:26.940immigration thing like we're we're a tiny country well this is what camp of the saints was about0.99
00:35:32.900exactly they just throw their bodies at the west and that's enough you don't even need0.99
00:35:38.460coherence you don't need confidence you don't need fucking intelligence also not too much of0.98
00:35:43.520tangent here but did you hear this news recently people are saying that numbers are coming out0.99
00:35:48.080based on uh i forget what it was it was some un group had gone in to do work in china
00:35:54.080and they'd taken their own numbers of the population and the population in china is
00:35:58.240probably closer to like a third of what the chinese government says it is like there was
00:36:02.240never there was never anywhere near a billion people there that was just something that was
00:36:06.240like everything with the chinese government it's propaganda their population is probably about the0.77
00:36:10.800same as the u.s and most of them are illiterate rice farmers which we already knew so yeah but0.81
00:36:17.120i remember hearing like so many different stories that of course the chinese numbers can't be0.88
00:36:21.760believed so they were trying to go by rice consumption and like the whole mainland is just0.93
00:36:26.960like a black zone they don't know there's no census they don't know what's going on in there
00:36:31.040with these villages and to the extent that there is census remember the chinese system is based0.84
00:36:35.360100 on threats of corruption blackmail bribery raping people's daughters like that's the that's0.88
00:36:42.480the chinese system it's it's coded that way intentionally so you can't ever trust any0.90
00:36:47.840numbers coming out of their system it's okay for them but um but the reason i bring it up is0.82
00:36:53.280now we understand what we're seeing as westerners the we live on an indian planet right like it's0.97
00:37:00.400it now appears as though something like a third or close to a half of the fucking global population0.91
00:37:05.780is indian if you think if there really aren't that many chinese if there's only like six billion0.97
00:37:11.100people on the planet well india has almost three billion people half the fucking planet nearly half0.80
00:37:18.720the planet yeah like if you look at africa it's it's dark and i don't mean just complexion wise0.99
00:37:26.540I mean that electricity it just it seems that I know the birth rates are up in Africa but if you told me they're going down to I would believe it just it's it's there's nothing going on there there's shit going on in India and they just keep making more of them and they don't care they keep everything gets worse and they don't care.1.00
00:37:46.600there's no policing like every single one of them is terrible at sex and courtship and like every1.00
00:37:55.880time you see an Indian movie their action heroes are like our bad guys in our rom-coms they're still1.00
00:38:03.580like sniveling twerps but there's I don't know they're doing it they're just they're just running1.00
00:38:09.640it like in Camp of the Saints there's they just they walk down the street and they're in an orgy1.00
00:38:14.560and it's just arm going into vagina head going into ass every orifice is a little bit boom no0.99
00:38:19.240their their their folk culture before the british came was almost entirely based around like sex and1.00
00:38:26.060penis worship and vitality worship and it was the british that kind of attempted to civilize them a0.90
00:38:31.320little bit and beat that but there's they had the whole thing where it's like when a when a man dies
00:38:34.560they have to kill the woman they actually did have a bronze age mindset yeah well in the sense that0.99
00:38:39.380like even like young boys don't care about anything other than having the biggest dick1.00
00:38:43.480possible and raping as many women as they can before they die young like and so i mean if if0.99
00:38:48.180that's bronze age then i guess but if you look at the guys doing it it's you know dysgenic four foot0.93
00:38:54.540eight also indian goblins i'm not being you know i'm not trying to be amazing dismissive when i say
00:39:01.560that is the bronze age mindset like that is it literally is yeah it's right there
00:39:06.340and trying to they would say that these westerners these englishmen
00:39:11.380longhouse them and stop them from pursuing their their true vitality they would see that as1.00
00:39:19.200true vitality but to me you know penis worship seems stupid and silly and gay it is it's gay1.00
00:39:25.940i think gay is definitely it's worshiping penises it's gay it can't be anything but gay1.00
00:39:32.520looking at a dick just just in the street look at that just i'm gonna make a bronze statue of that1.00
00:39:39.740and put it in my front garden no yet you're gay you could do that but then you'd be gay i think1.00
00:39:45.180it might be the case that white people invented staring at naked women i'm high on 12 jason borns1.00
00:39:52.380looking to beat the cum out of a thick fresh oak we're smoking filtered crack you stupid piece of1.00
00:39:58.860shit i'll fucking kill you call that pussy the matrix because i'm in this bitch and i can't get1.00
00:40:07.460out they just didn't do it everywhere else they're looking at the dicks and balls and they didn't1.00
00:40:12.640know you could actually look at boobs yeah never tried it we introduced that pathogen out to the1.00
00:40:22.180east you go to east asia i don't know what the fuck they were looking at they were just busy1.00
00:40:27.860taking the hammers to women's feet0.99
00:46:25.240I'd also predicted that if you look at the charts and the graphs about the political leadings of the young people,
00:46:34.480it seems that they're trending conservative or how they rank as conservative.
00:46:38.220And so I said, well, that could come to bear on the election, but I think that the liberals will take it because they'll siphon off even more votes from the NDP.0.98
00:46:49.200And I think that might have happened, but to the degree that Jagmeet Singh is no longer the head of the NDP, which is fucking wild.0.92
00:47:57.460i like that he's going on a podcast tour i like that he's he's doing bits with theo vaughn or
00:48:05.100whatever it is he's up to but it's been a steady descent in the polls there's been no upward
00:48:12.580trajectory the ppc has never fucking won it's it's gotten smaller and smaller and worse and worse0.79
00:48:18.520and i'd say let's just pack it in let's dust our hands we gave it a shot let's try it again because0.97
00:48:24.280um i don't think people will say what can can the can the conservatives do who could they get
00:48:31.080and i said well let's look to trump regardless of what you think about trump trump wasn't chosen
00:48:37.060by his party trump hijacked the republican party he kicked down the door barged his way and elbowed
00:48:42.720his way to the front remember who he was debating against at first it was a bunch of squares and
00:48:47.780paperclip men and i don't think there might have been a couple women it was mean they had women up
00:48:54.060there with trump he shouldn't do that but that he they did he had to fight them every step of the
00:49:00.560way so the question shouldn't be who can the conservatives elect or choose it has to be who
00:49:05.680can storm into the party and hijack it against their will because that's what it would take
00:49:11.820because these people don't know how to win anymore and barring that i think if you wanted a
00:49:18.160actual nationalist option that place is being taken up by the ppc i don't think they regardless
00:49:25.960of how much you like maxine bernie i like bernie i know there's some great people who worked with0.95
00:49:29.480the ppc i was an early adopter of the ppc they're fucking they're felted they're gone just you have0.73
00:49:37.620to give it up they didn't do it right they spread themselves too thin i like bernie but if you want0.93
00:49:42.720to have a nationalist identitarian option on the table even if it's not going to be 30 percent of
00:49:50.860the vote just to be there to normalize the rhetoric and perhaps influence the conservative
00:49:56.300party i think you just need to start new get rid of everyone that's there because right now aside1.00
00:50:01.120from bernier it's all indian bitches and black lesbian yes yes that's what i was going to say1.00
00:50:06.480like it i if you're going to spread it so thinly that you can never win a single seat there's still0.99
00:50:12.120some political utility to it in that like you said you're normalizing the idea of there being
00:50:16.160a nationalist party but it's not really a nationalist party anymore because he panders
00:50:19.820to the indians and the immigrants almost as much as polyev does right he's just he's an anti-immigration
00:50:26.200guy but he's not an anti-immigrant guy and he talks about being pro-canadian but he still talks
00:50:31.380about it in terms of often it values and identity he doesn't talk about it in terms of ethnicity and
00:50:36.960history and lineage so it's not actually blood and soil it's just he's looking at it like oh i
00:50:42.940can't talk about that because i want to win to which i would say you're not going to win you're
00:50:47.140not going to win your only job is to make it so you're allowed to talk about that exactly that's
00:50:52.320your goal for next year next year you got your donors your salaries taken care of your only0.73
00:50:57.380fucking goal that year is to normalize one word and that word is remigration the other part of it0.94
00:51:02.560is he went he goes wide right he has to go to federal even though he's never won a single seed0.98
00:51:06.400um but like you don't have a you don't have a base and even at even then if you're only doing
00:51:13.440it to get in the news media the news media ignores you you there's other parties like rhino for
00:51:17.620example who's way smaller than ppc it's a joke party they get more mainstream interviews than
00:51:23.360than he does he gets like he now gets like youtube and twitter interviews with like weird america0.67
00:51:27.880he got a fucking tucker interview but the actual canadian news media won't touch him so like at0.98
00:51:33.600that point i'd be saying why don't you just try to do it for real instead of being a fag about it0.99
00:51:37.680why don't you go go somewhere pour all your resources into one county in a very conservative0.89
00:51:43.100area that's been damaged by immigration and sweep the entire county and become mayor and then take0.91
00:51:49.620and put every make every counselor on that town council one of your guys yes that's how you do it0.99
00:51:55.120he could do that we all talk about this shit bernie could do that bernie i mean could do that0.99
00:52:00.780in like three years he could take over a whole county in like you know western ontario i'll bet0.99
00:52:06.620yeah absolutely and he would say like oh i can't just do a party about old stock canadians white
00:52:14.800canadians i'd say try it try it just try it you can't do it nationally you can't do it nationally
00:52:21.260this is what i'm saying there's no there's no hope for demographic democratic politics in canada
00:52:26.120Because the nation, or not the nation, sorry, the country, we're talking about the geographic borders, the country and the people that are allowed to vote here, quote-unquote people, are not Canadians.
00:52:36.560So you can't ever have a democratic outcome that is going to help Canadians because we're outnumbered in our own home.
00:52:43.540But you can do it to some extent in places that are still Canadian.0.98
00:52:48.800So stop it with the national politics bullshit, man.0.95
00:52:51.680it's there's no such thing as a nationalist federal party it doesn't make sense because0.97
00:52:57.580there's the majority of this country is not actually the nation absolutely um and that's
00:53:05.780why i think they just need to to go away um the bloc quebecois would is going to stay there forever
00:53:11.580um with mark hardy we i'm not optimistic i'm optimistic in the sense that i think he's more
00:53:21.120cunning and more shrewd than polyam with polyam i think everything would stay the same or get worse
00:53:28.000with carney i think everything stays the same maybe gets worse but he might have an ace up his
00:53:34.600sleeve if if he's trying to move canada from what i'm here it's definitely going to get worse there's
00:53:41.700all kinds of stuff that he's proposing he's going to do an equity tax and a bunch of other things
00:53:45.400but I mean, it's still going to get, it's going to get worse either way.
00:53:49.600A lot of the, a lot of the most egregious things that he would do.
00:53:52.720I'm not convinced that Polly wouldn't do it eventually if there's enough0.85
00:53:56.560pressure, even with the gun thing.1.00
00:53:59.020The problem is that I don't see that conservatives are actually big on guns.
01:17:44.180That's touched on in the book, and I think there's more evidence for that than not.
01:17:50.360And it's just a question of how much was even he made aware of it.
01:17:54.600So when people say, oh, he's a planter, he's a Fed, was he trained for that express purpose and implanted there, or was he already there and that he was brainwashed, or is it some hybrid of both?
01:18:09.760Or, like, how unwitting was he in all of this, and how directly involved were even the CIA?
01:18:16.840Because if they're creating the sleeper agents, he gets into it in the end of the book.
01:18:22.440I don't want to get to it now, but let's just say there's a robust history of the CIA specifically doing things just like this, getting into organizations, because it was McVeigh's affiliation with white nationalist groups and his ownership of the Turner Diaries and his affection for William Luther Pierce that, you know, had him associated with the militia movements.
01:18:47.680but the counterpoint was well he was infiltrating there and maybe he was driven to violence
01:18:54.480by someone else and looking at it even without getting too too deep into it i think a lot of
01:19:02.680people distrust the the approved story which is that he was just a lone wolf he's a guy who did
01:19:08.160it on his own and that's the story that he was copying to after being arrested he said he acted
01:19:14.520alone no one else helped him uh who was he covering for was he covering for anyone does
01:19:19.660this make sense that one person would just do it so just to spoil the ending here i do think
01:19:26.480this is a much larger plot than was initially you know put forward by the government you know
01:19:34.980that's the approved narrative i don't think it makes sense and why would they put why would
01:19:41.080forward that if it didn't make sense unless it was to cover something up so i think that's
01:19:45.720that's the least extreme interpretation but that's still pretty bad that still means that one of the
01:19:51.560biggest bombings in u.s history that also blew up many many children as well purposefully
01:19:58.680had the fingerprints of the federal government on it which is that that that's something no one
01:20:04.680wants to cop to so i'll just start reading some parts here if you want to jump in at any point
01:29:20.540There's another type of story, which is the guilty agent theory,
01:29:23.400which is guilty agent stories appear frequently in the works of conspiracy theory genre
01:29:28.120prior to the criminal trials of McVeigh and Nichols.
01:29:31.240For example, John Rappaport's 1995 book called Oklahoma City Bombing,
01:29:36.620The Suppressed Truth, argues that the bombing plot was unquestionably a conspiracy
01:29:41.020that subsequently led to a cover-up afterwards.
01:29:44.060After McVeigh's arrest, so-called conspiracy theorists were linked to terrorism.
01:29:47.880This new batch of potential terrorists and their supporters co-opted the discourse of counterterrorism pundits by claiming that the bombing itself was the result of the conspiracy.
01:29:57.580So, you know, the entire thing was made to discredit conspiracy theorists.
01:43:16.220is going to contact you you're going to be deep deep deep
01:43:18.120You're not going to be paid or reimbursed for any of this, and we're never going to admit knowledge of you, but you should do it.
01:43:24.260And you're not going to get any letters, but do it, and then at some point, you're going to need to do what I say.
01:43:31.060If I ever accidentally ran into Sam Hyde in a bar in Rhode Island, I'd expect him to say that to me.
01:43:41.600There's a period where McVeigh works at a company called CalSpan.
01:43:46.700and he said that even after quitting the job and leaving upstate New York
01:43:50.580McVeigh's interest in Kalisman continued. After McVeigh left Buffalo
01:43:54.100he wrote, there's this guy named LeBron who I'm quoting here, he wrote me letters
01:43:58.500one said that while he was working at Kalisman as a guard he found a document
01:44:02.660in an office on one floor of the building that was rented out to a government
01:44:06.820agency. He claimed the document stated that many submarines
01:44:10.780were bringing drugs into the country and that quote dredging operations
01:44:15.000on the Mississippi River were to support the access of submarines in the United States of
01:44:20.340America. To me, that seemed more like fantasy than fact. Interestingly, while not publicly known
01:44:25.720until many years later, during the time McVeigh worked at CalSpan, it was indeed the staging
01:44:30.760ground for an undercover operation that involved his other employer, the National Guard, thus
01:44:36.400rendering some of the alternative stories told by McVeigh and later others, if not probable,
01:44:41.620at least plausible and less irrational in 1989 an alliance spinoff uh co-named north star which
01:44:49.680focused on the u.s canadian border the primary group responsible for conducting alliance slash
01:44:54.720north star operations was joint task force six jtf6 operatives received training in the u.s
01:45:00.960army special operations command at fort bragg and were subsequently deployed in the domestic field
01:45:06.040As McVeigh guarded Northstar Regional Headquarters at Calspan, his other employer at the time, the National Guard, was coordinating with other multi-agency task forces as well.
01:45:15.740This one headed by the FBI called PATCON, short for Patriot Conspiracy.
01:45:22.340While McVeigh was seemingly aware that Northstar existed, PATCON's existence was unknown to the public until 2007, when it was revealed through a Freedom of Information Act request.
01:45:32.640so this is pat con is quite literally the series of plans by the u.s government to infiltrate and
01:45:40.000disrupt these breakaway civilization you know survivalist movements by 1990 undercover federal
01:45:49.740informants and agents positioned within targeted groups began warning about the ongoing development
01:45:55.420of violent criminal conspiracies now involving not only the wpm but also their allies in the
01:46:01.260burgeoning patriot movement the fbi continued to gather information about these schemes and in march
01:46:06.5601991 fbi assistant director larry potts authorized patcon a national multi-agency domestic anti-terrorism
01:46:15.860initiative meant to disrupt these plots and bring criminal charges against the conspirators
01:46:20.540given the existence of patcon and north star at the time their objectives and relation to the
01:46:25.920National Guard, McVeigh's statements to his sister and his first attorneys are curiously
01:46:31.380noteworthy. As outlined previously, McVeigh told Jennifer that during the SFAS at Fort Bragg,
01:46:37.900he was informed that his covert assignment entailing acting as a military consultant
01:46:42.160working hand-in-hand with civilian police agencies in the U.S. Further, within days of
01:46:46.440his arrest, he told public defenders Otto and Coyle he was, quote, recruited by the government
01:46:51.640while serving a four to five month period at the national guard and tasked with neo-nazis and other
01:46:57.640problem troops so here we see mcveigh is confessing that he was to instructed to infiltrate these
01:47:05.720groups perhaps on the orders of this mysterious major or maybe by someone else and this is where
01:47:11.880maybe the stories conflict but also mcveigh he wasn't known to take drugs he wasn't a substance
01:47:18.040abusing guy he doesn't seem mentally ill in any other way if anything he suffered from physical
01:47:23.400um abnormalities and defects but he was a very serious straightforward sober-minded guy you know
01:47:30.920he never came across as just like a a lunatic looking for attention i think that's what people
01:47:36.120find difficult to square with someone like him and it's it here's where it gets interesting though it
01:47:43.720It says, similar to the violent right-wing rhetoric and dissent it ostensibly sought to quell,
02:03:38.200And one such occurrence happened recently with a mutual of mine with Dimes, and he wrote
02:03:45.360an article, and I'm trying to forget, I forget now whose actual podcast he was on, but he
02:03:50.420was talking about something that he calls first principles.
02:03:54.780And I thought, because the notion of the foundations of culture, the role of religion
02:04:02.160and faith especially the christian faith in culture formation is um something that's very
02:04:07.920close to my heart i thought i would have dimes on and we could kind of talk through some of this
02:04:13.120and um hopefully learn some things and maybe um deepen i understand and maybe even question some
02:04:19.140of the things i do and just for people interest sake um on the seeking the hidden things side of
02:04:25.040things. Dimes is the one who is responsible for the new visual intro to my Seeking the Hidden
02:04:33.680Things recording. So thank you for that, Dimes. I love the work you did there and welcome on the
02:04:38.500show. Oh, thank you so much for having me. And yeah, it was myself and a videographer who I
02:04:43.980work with. We've done quite a few intros to various podcasts, but we had, you're a dream
02:04:49.340client to work with let's just say that um and so it didn't take 90 revisions to get there um and
02:04:56.860the interview you were just referring to i believe it would have been on disgraced propaganda show
02:05:01.920that's the one that's right yes yeah that was one where we got to a lot of stuff it was kind of
02:05:08.100meandering those are the talks i like um so and i think it's based off of the same
02:05:13.680sub stack article that we'll be referring to today uh which is i believe um winning was never enough
02:05:20.880um and that was a speech that i delivered at an event back in december of 2024 yeah and so i'll
02:05:28.660link that in the notes for people thank you because it's well worth it's well worth reading
02:05:33.060and it's it's a good piece and um yeah so maybe i'll just let you because so many of my articles
02:05:38.980are just very dense and schizophrenic and this one is written to be delivered and so i wrote it in a
02:05:46.080way that's meant to be read by uh people which is wildly different than the rest of the other stuff
02:05:53.160i published so yeah and so maybe just um i'll let you lay it out kind of for people but um
02:06:01.980And I think that if memory is serving me right there, the article is framed in this idea of, you know, we live in this kind of de-racinated culture with no grounding.
02:06:16.980And we kind of free float as a culture, you know, on reason.
02:07:02.160Anyway, the point I read these two books side by side, covered them on Blood Satellite.
02:07:06.560One was this book titled Archeofuturism, and the other one was Reflections on Violence by George Sorrell.
02:07:13.820And they were kind of telling the exact same story.
02:07:16.160Archeofuturism was the story of the French New Right, because Guillaume Fay was a member of that, and he was explaining its downfall, or in his words, how it became compromise.
02:07:28.000And Georges Sorel, in Reflections on Violence, was describing the syndicalist movement.
02:07:32.240Similarly, how it fell apart and became compromised and was defeated.
02:07:36.220And I found the stories shared a lot in common.
02:07:38.680And without going too deep into them, the common thread was that they could not survive negotiations of power.
02:07:46.160Now, if you view this French syndicalist or any syndicalist movement, a far left movement, what you might call a Marxist movement, as a true revolutionary movement, he was making the argument that it can never negotiate with power, it must always attempt to destroy power, perhaps even replace it.
02:08:02.220I argue, as does Martin Gurry, that no revolutionary movement can really replace power. It has to become something else before it does that. But its real strength is in critique and destruction.
02:08:13.760But he had said the downfall of the cynicalist movement was it caused all the violence, it made its demands, it was widely popular, and then it was at the table with power and is eventually defanged and absorbed by the art.
02:08:29.300Your leftist policies were absorbed into the mass.
02:08:32.940Similarly, with the new right part, the French new right, he saw it as compromising itself to appeal to the mainstream, to appeal to a wider audience, and stopped being a truly revolutionary party, in his words, had to critique power.
02:08:48.520If you're anti-system, you must be truly anti-system and propose an alternative to the entire system, which it might sound grandiose, but that's what it is.
02:08:58.980And so I took that common thread and followed it that, you know, if you really want to win, if you are a true dissident, if you are a revolutionary minded person, and there's many different revolutionary minds, of course, we don't all agree in this space, maybe you're a Christian nationalist, but you need to view winning as something more final.
02:09:19.140Winning isn't just seeing the politician give lip service to some of your talking points or your ideals, or winning isn't just the mainstream adopting what you believe to be some version of what you had said, because that will become compromise and you will be defanged in the process.
02:09:36.860So how do you actually define winning? And so that is the title of it. Winning was never enough. Like you must view your victory as a true victory state. And maybe the mainstream appealing to your talking points is a moment of weakness. That's that's the signal that you can keep going. Don't just rest on your laurels. Don't just say the fight is over. Right. Because the very machine that was persecuting you a week ago didn't just about face.
02:10:05.720It didn't just learn from its mistakes. And this is really an old leftist talking point, too, when you speak of the superstructure. Even Curtis Yarvin speaks of this in the cathedral, whether or not you agree with him. He's kind of describing the same type of machine that it will not tolerate a threat to it.
02:10:24.080Any critique of the system that is permitted within the system actually strengthens the system.
02:10:29.240I'm not going that far, but there's something to it that anything that a system truly sees as a threat, it will try and crush or absorb, which is actually what we're seeing right now in our space.
02:12:02.400is now going to be done by means of the managerial state.
02:12:08.360So then we will progressively engineer society
02:12:12.620step by step through managerialism and through technocracy to achieve the perfect form of human
02:12:25.360civilization once we've sort of allowed it to iterate enough. And then the revolutionary
02:12:35.000aspect of Marxism, Del Noche says, gets turned towards the enemies of progress, which are
02:12:41.920traditionalists, those that resist this kind of progressive change. So anybody that's interested
02:12:49.760in past and so forth. And so, you know, and Del Noche actually argues as well, too, that both
02:12:57.000modern post-Nietzschean streams, whether it is fascism, communism, or liberalism, all in some
02:13:05.100sense have a revolutionary reactionary strain where they want to sweep away the present order,
02:13:11.920in order to instantiate a kind of utopian world.
02:13:16.920The fascist wishes to instantiate a kind of perfect version of the past.
02:13:22.040And the liberal Marxist progressive wants to instantiate a utopian future that has yet to be conceived.
02:13:31.080But this notion that you say of being co-opted, I think, is very, very important and people don't understand.
02:13:39.640And this is something that Ellul argued in The Political Illusion that the managerial state cannot be reformed and that any attempts to reform it just make it stronger.
02:13:51.140And that's and he details the reasons why for that. But it's, you know, if you make this system because it's geared towards consistent outcomes and efficiency, if you make the managerial state or what you would call the modern state in any of its forms, whether in business or in government, if you make the state apparatus managerialism more efficient, you just make it stronger.
02:14:19.900And that's what I found so interesting.
02:14:21.560I think a lot of people find interesting about the work of James Burnham and others.
02:14:25.720It's this very 20th century and 21st century awareness of what the managerial state is.
02:14:32.700And this fits very neatly into elite theory.
02:14:35.240This fits very neatly into a juvenile view of power where power is concentric circles.
02:14:42.080You have the center of power, which might be the state, the monarchy, what have you.
02:14:44.840then on the outer periphery there's the people but a lot of people forget about that inner circle
02:14:49.460the intermediate intermediary power that's really what you know just to give him a bit more credit
02:14:54.660that's what yarvin's talking about i don't see him as the originator of this idea but just one
02:14:58.540flavor of it but he makes people ask what components are in the system so it's not just
02:15:04.140the government it's not just politicians the managerial state kind of exists on the periphery
02:15:08.220of the center but then within the intermediary you have the priest class you have ngos you have
02:15:13.460the media. You have all these things that work hand in glove with power, but it might not be
02:15:18.240obvious in a very 19th century view of power, which is people versus government. So people
02:15:24.700are forced to think more systemically about what power actually is, what the targets ought to be,
02:15:30.600and how you can be co-opted because it's not necessarily meeting in a room with the president
02:15:35.800and shaking a hand. It might be doing deals with intermediary billionaires to change your
02:15:40.800narrative. There's lots of ways power can be compromised. And the one thing I like about
02:15:46.480leftist writers and Marxist writers, I'm not a leftist, I'm not a Marxist, but they take a very
02:15:52.620careful eye on what power is and how it flows and how it functions. And you can get very abstract
02:15:59.620when you go down that road, obviously, but it makes you view power and control in less rigid
02:16:05.480terms. I think that can and has been appropriated by the right, by traditionalists even. So
02:16:12.200that's kind of what this was about, this article, which is a very 21st century idea of what does
02:16:17.860winning look like? What does control look like? And this is all in the interest of forming a group
02:16:23.800to advocate for your interests, whatever they might be. So if we can figure out what our heading
02:16:30.500is, if you can figure out what the win state actually looks like, then you can craft a strategy
02:16:35.920around that. A lot of people lack a strategy because they lack a heading. They don't actually
02:16:39.900know what they're doing. And we can get into group dynamics. Because I think in one part of that
02:16:46.720piece, unless I'm mistaken, I have it pulled up. I think I mentioned Wilfred Bayon as well,
02:16:51.900which is you can spend a lot of time talking about Bayon and psychoanalysis. I deal in a lot
02:16:56.180of topics that you're not supposed to talk about, especially within our political milieu.
02:17:01.300I don't just denounce psychology. I don't just denounce the over a century of Marxist
02:17:08.140investigations into power. I try and look at these things. I do this on my other show with
02:17:12.900my friend, The Prudentialist. We tend to look at some of the more fringe works emerging from
02:17:18.960the post-left and see, is there anything in here that makes sense? We cut through a lot of the
02:17:25.320esoteric theory stuff and say like, but what is in here that is valid? Really, to answer the
02:17:31.900question, why does Marxism seem to still have such an audience? Is there something buried in there
02:17:38.880that is, if not correct, then at least relevant or at least irrelevant critique? And I think it
02:17:44.880behooves us to understand why certain ideologies seem to work or seem to have lasting clout,
02:17:51.940despite the fact that they've failed spectacularly in so many other realms so you know when you read
02:17:57.480these articles you will see like i even mentioned foucault at one point nobody on our side likes
02:18:03.700certainly i don't but in reading madness and civilization i talked about this with my buddy
02:18:08.620james uh not james so jay burden about foucault specifically it's like can we sort do you have
02:18:16.200the the confidence and also the experience and background to actually tell which part of this
02:18:23.220should be just thrown out but find that pearl of something interesting in there anyway i'm rambling
02:18:29.420again but i gave you no it's fine and then this is this is why long form podcasting is so nice
02:18:36.020because you can ramble a little bit well and i and this is the thing that i that make that drives me
02:18:41.340nuts a little bit too, is, sorry, I'm talking into my hand now, is that I'm also a thoroughgoing
02:18:49.120postmodern, right? So my philosophical core in many ways comes out of hermeneutics and semiotics,
02:18:57.060the idea of like, you know, how does meaning translate, right? And so I am very much a
02:19:02.240Gadamerian, like, you know, Hans-George Gadamer, in terms of, you know, the recognition of the
02:19:07.520hermeneutical problem and the problem of meaning and the problem of grounding knowledge and so
02:19:14.040forth. And that's the nice thing too, is I veer off into things like Jung and Marcia Eliade and
02:19:21.980Walter Ong is another big one for me. But I think if you, there's the quote unquote canon of
02:19:29.220political works, but if you stick to the canon of political works, you end up very much just
02:19:35.320sort of mouthing orthodoxies. And that's always a dangerous thing. And when you were talking about,
02:19:41.860you know, sort of the approaching this idea of like, what does winning look like in terms of
02:19:50.260the current administrative system that sort of runs everything? And one of the things that Ellul
02:19:56.840notes is that managerial, like managerialism, that what we would call managerialism or the
02:20:05.800technocratic society, Ellul calls it technique because he argues that we tend to get fixated on
02:20:14.680the devices and the systems and so forth. And Ellul argues that more fundamental is that technique
02:20:23.500is a way of thinking about the world and the way of addressing problems. And this is the one thing
02:20:30.160I think that most people on our side don't fully grapple with, because technique basically only
02:20:39.260allows one type of, like, it only allows solutions. In other words, the kind of things where we can
02:20:45.920break the problem down, analyze it, abstract it, and then develop a solution to our problem.
02:20:54.900And so the idea where I get to is as soon as anyone starts talking about like, okay,
02:21:01.140what's the solution to the problem? I know you're already working for the system in a sense that
02:21:07.940you're captured by the system because you're captured by the way of thinking that underlies
02:21:13.240the managerial world. And so this is why in a sense there can really, you can't, in a managerial
02:21:21.300world, there is no such thing as what we might call traditional or conservative policy, because
02:21:27.320in order to do, in order to have conservative policy, you have to basically take the, you have
02:21:34.320to take a conservative or traditional way of doing things, abstract it, rationalize it, and then
02:21:40.760turn it into a product, a system, or a machine, which then fundamentally breaks it. And this is
02:21:47.600why Ellul says that if you want to use, say, propaganda to further the cause of Christianity,
02:21:53.560you essentially destroy it in the process. And there's this whole sense of that. But in the
02:21:59.580modern world, your people who come to church are confronted everywhere by propaganda. And so if
02:22:06.260If you don't address propaganda with them, then they will become seduced by the propaganda
02:22:12.340in the world around them and you're powerless against it.
02:22:14.360But if you use propaganda techniques to ward them off from the propaganda machine of the
02:22:22.280machine, you in a sense destroy Christianity in doing so, right?
02:22:26.020And so this is the kind of bind that you're caught in in terms of dealing with power is
02:22:30.680that in order to grapple with the modern administrative system, the question is, is
02:22:35.540if you're within the system and you're going to try to grapple with the system living within its
02:22:40.640totality, you, in a sense, become almost immediately co-opted by it. And the system just sort of
02:22:46.480absorbs you and turns whatever thing you have into just another aspect of the system.
02:22:51.580Yeah. And this is a relevant line of inquiry because you'll notice, especially when it comes
02:22:57.240to Christianity, but even more especially Catholicism, is that people will try and find
02:23:03.000political solutions within religion and by which i mean there's this interesting movie that i don't
02:23:09.900like but i saw it recently and there's an interesting part in it it was called conclave
02:23:14.340with um oh yes i avoided that one but maybe you should give it a watch it's a good movie until
02:23:22.420it isn't right at the end there's a twist that makes the entire preceding movie it just stabs
02:23:29.480in the heart but there's an interesting idea in there where i'll try to explain briefly
02:23:35.620i won't explain the entire movie but beginning pope dies natural causes it's set up as sort of
02:23:41.340a whodunit in a sense trying to figure out what internal power politics are going on the vatican
02:23:46.900because they need to vote on a new pope need to go to conclave and all the cardinals will vote and
02:23:51.000he's been nearly unanimous and there's three contenders and there's this interesting idea in
02:23:54.880there that no nobody wants to be the pope but and this is a line delivered by stanley tucci's
02:24:01.580character and no one's be the pope but everyone there has their pope name picked out in the back
02:24:06.900of their minds right because you're dropped off again times oh sorry but everyone in every cardinal
02:24:12.560in a sense has their pope name picked out right because they do secretly want it but there's this
02:24:19.560idea they all have their guy yeah or if they want they want to be them deep down but it's really
02:24:24.240three contenders right there's the conservative one there's the hyper progressive liberal one
02:24:28.520they're kind of going at it but then there's this dark horse who turns out to be trans spoiler alert
02:24:33.740don't go see it but the trans one makes an interesting speech because one of the plot lines
02:24:40.360in the film it's that the there's basically an islamist incursion in the vatican there's
02:24:46.700terrorist attacks going out all outside the vatican and inside the vatican during this and so the
02:24:52.060italian contender the pope he's more conservative pope he says we must wage war against the islamists0.76
02:24:57.120and a lot of people listening would agree and i do basically agree with that uh sentiment but the0.65
02:25:03.160good pope the one that we're supposed to like he has an interesting take which is
02:25:07.740is our is it our job to fight the war against this enemy or is our enemy war itself
02:25:16.420and so it's and i get why that would seem as a compromised position but to me that makes more
02:25:24.320sense for the vatican to like what what is your aim is your enemy just this one is it this
02:25:32.100materialist war against muslims or is it against satan is it against the memetic virus um what uh
02:25:38.920renee gerard would say the mech virus like satan in the form of violence so should our should our
02:25:45.840aims be higher than just this corporeal enemy. And I kind of get that. But the problem is,
02:25:53.140and I think that's actually more fitting for an institution as long lived as a Catholic church.
02:25:58.820However, what a lot of people are looking towards Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy for is an army
02:26:04.140to join to fight these immediate wars. You're looking for the religion to fulfill your politics,
02:26:11.720your regional politics. And you're hoping that could be the army you can join because0.97
02:26:16.000your nation's army has been seen wanting. But I think, like you said, the issue is that we're
02:26:20.680making almost managerial state demands upon an institution of religion. And we might look
02:26:28.160towards the Muslims and say, look, their religion is every single part of society.
02:26:32.900But I don't think, I think our aims can be a bit more segmented. I think they ought to be,
02:26:38.360because that's our our natural state that's sort of like a lower resolution solution to the problem
02:26:44.980and that's not a very popular answer i understand but what do you think about that well and i would
02:26:52.040agree i would agree on this and this is where say i have been you know you pick up stuff in odd
02:26:57.740places and you pick so um rod dreher of all people in his book um the benedict option talks about
02:27:05.220Vaclav Havel and his idea of, you know, do the right thing. So I figure, you know, since you can
02:27:15.560get a hold of Vaclav Havel's books, I figure you might as well just go read the man himself,
02:27:19.440right? And so Havel argues that you can get into this, this dialectic with your, with your quote
02:27:27.060unquote enemy. And I, he's absolutely right. And so there is a sense where if you're battling the
02:27:33.100communist and you become an anti-communist he says your existence is now defined in this dialectic
02:27:39.540between you and the between you and the communist and so you become this anti-communist and then
02:27:45.740in many ways you become your enemy in order to defeat him and this is a common observation that
02:27:50.780many have made and so what Havel argues and I don't know how successfully he was able to achieve
02:28:00.280it in life, but I think he's ultimately right, is in a sense that you need to refuse to play the
02:28:08.140game. And so the option is then to look for door number three. And door number three, he argues,
02:28:15.760is just simply do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing. And if doing the right
02:28:20.400thing happens to bring down communism, great. If it doesn't happen to bring down communism,
02:28:25.060oh, well, at least you can take solace in the fact that you've always done the right thing.
02:28:30.280And I think that he's largely right there.
02:28:32.180And so if, you know, for a bit of a lengthier explanation on this, there is a temptation in our Christian circles, I think, to want to instrumentalize the faith.
02:28:45.640So we can make certain observations about the Christian faith in a sense that this idea that it bubbles up from the bottom, you know, doing conversion one-on-one is largely mistaken.
02:28:55.920And this is kind of the American sort of, you have the free mind, everybody has to freely come to the gospel, that traditionally what has happened is that in societies that have gone over to Christianity is that certain key elite tastemakers will convert to Christianity.
02:29:13.920and because of their conversion to Christianity, those beneath them socially begin to imitate them
02:29:20.360and it begins to sweep through society and it's seen as the means of acquiring social success.
02:29:27.620Now, that's not in a sense why you come to the faith, like, you know, the elite person who
02:29:31.980converted probably did it, you know, hopefully for noble reasons because they were convinced
02:29:35.940and so forth and so forth. And so we try to reverse engineer that process by saying that,
02:29:42.860Well, if we just grab all of the elite positions through force, through violence, by working the technological system, we can then, by seizing those positions, reinstantiate Christianity in society.0.51
02:29:59.220And I think in some ways that's fundamentally mistaken because it comes back to Havel's that it's sort of that Allulian thing and sort of doing that you end up destroying the essence of the Christian faith to begin with.0.92
02:30:14.040So in a sense, if you're doing it because it's the right thing to do and it's the right person doing it, it will have tremendous social effect.
02:30:23.140But at all times, you need to be doing the Christian faith because it's the right thing to do, not because you're doing it towards certain political ends.
02:30:33.520Now, if you're successful in doing it for the right reasons, then it will have a sweeping effect across society.
02:30:42.280And then once it has this seeping effect across society, because until Christ returns, you still live in a sinful world, you still have to deal with things like crime and violence, then you have certain questions that you have to answer in a Christian community about, you know, violence, war, protection, or whatever, that stem from being the dominant member of society.0.85
02:31:02.040But until such a time, you are likely going to be, as the episode of this podcast, a ghetto community that is struggling to do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing and allowing the results of that to take care of themselves.0.79
02:31:19.340And this is why I found your whole idea of fundamental principles so interesting because I think it dovetails nicely into this thing of doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing, regardless of what the outcomes of that are.0.73
02:31:29.700Yeah, if I could just add to that point you just made, we know what it looks like to see Christian reduced just to techniques or rituals.0.85
02:31:38.680See, a good example would be what you see in America, right?
02:31:41.740And I'm not trying to lay into Protestantism in any sense, because I think this phenomenon affects all Christian denominations equally.
02:31:49.400But you will see sort of perverted versions of Christianity.0.79
02:31:56.560So I used to live by these churches with the pride flags flowing, with the female pastors, and they're all talking politics. They're all anti-Trump. They have the crosses. They have the stained glass. They pray. They do all the things you're supposed to do in a Christian church.
02:32:13.700However, what they really believe in is progressivism. What they really believe in0.98
02:32:17.960is progressivism adorned with the regalia of Christianity. So they actually don't even
02:32:22.680believe in Christianity. They just think that adopting Christian symbolism will be more expedient
02:32:28.020for their progressive values. So to your point, it's like, do people actually believe in
02:32:33.180Christianity or is it just become a technique? Is it just a technique that you need to adopt
02:32:37.540to win something? And so what we're really trying to get to, and this is more to the point,
02:32:41.900what are your first principles? What is it you actually believe? And when I say first principles,
02:32:46.580we say this on the show all the time. And some people will hear that and will substitute their
02:32:51.800own meaning for it. But if I could explain it very simply, it's what values or principles you have
02:32:58.280that are non-negotiable. And different groups could have that. It doesn't just need to be
02:33:02.840Christians. And it's to the point, you know, there's this interesting book, to phrase it
02:33:07.240another way called The Network State. And it's very much an NRX style book. It's very much
02:33:13.440in the sort of peer teal sphere of let's figure out how to systematize religion.
02:33:18.360It's kind of transhumanist. It's very blockchain oriented. But the whole book is about how you
02:33:23.500could create a breakaway state, a step-by-step plan about how you and your group could actually
02:33:29.540become a state through your online network. It's an interesting book. You don't need to
02:33:34.680necessarily agree with all of it to find it interesting. But there's this one part in the
02:33:39.440book, he says, how to establish your state in the initial stages is to draft a constitution.
02:33:45.280And I think a lot of Americans will probably agree that having a simple constitution
02:33:48.600is better than a very complex constitution like we have in Canada. That actually opens it up more
02:33:53.860towards very litigious interpretation of it. But he said, have a one phrase commandment. This is
02:34:01.340the one phrase that unites you all to the point where if someone doesn't affirm that phrase,
02:34:07.880or they disagree with it, you know you cannot be allies. So it might be Christianity equals good.
02:34:15.240They have a very Reddit way of explaining the book, but Christianity, good. Or if you're a0.97
02:34:20.340white nationalist, for example, it'll be white people, good. Or if you're a Black nationalist,0.97
02:34:24.180Black people are good. That's something where if we can't shake hands on that, or you try0.96
02:34:28.240and fog the issue or debate me on it we're not friends you're subversive and that's the that's
02:34:33.220the baseline where if we can't agree on that we can build on that but if we can't agree on that0.91
02:34:38.380then we actually don't have a fucking group so and the group could be anywhere from like 10 to 50 to
02:34:44.180a community size group but you need that very simple affirmative foundation and in america and0.96
02:34:51.680a lot of the problems you see in politics in america but also within our space what we can
02:34:56.120call broadly the right is we're still debating on first principles or trying to get to the root
02:35:01.180of what these things are especially when you get into racial politics about like well what is
02:35:06.600the race like who counts in that and what do we do with those who don't affirm that you know i mean
02:35:12.700like it's not to say that we're more prone to bickering we're actually trying to dive into the
02:35:17.080root causes and the first principles what we actually believe in the interest of forming
02:35:21.740these groups so we can advocate for ourselves. And ideally for, because people talk about parallel
02:35:27.200societies and breakaway communities all the time. And this is very, and re-tribalization,
02:35:32.700you hear that word a lot. And all we said was, okay, let's focus on that practically. What's
02:35:37.880your five-year plan? How do you do that? Because anyone can say we need to re-tribalize. Anyone
02:35:42.640can say we need to unify for our own interests, but okay, how do you actually do that right now
02:35:48.460in 2025 with the tools at your disposal. And here's the, here's the trick. You can't reference
02:35:54.640anything that was at the turn of the 20th century as your model. Right? So we start from the first
02:36:00.700principle of that and try and find out what your first principle actually is. And it's what is
02:36:04.840inarguable, at least one thing. It's easy to get more first principles as you get older. Like
02:36:09.340I'm in my mid thirties. So I got a lot of first principles. I got a lot of people I don't want
02:36:13.940to fucking work with but maybe that works against me i just you just get bitter and mean as you get0.97
02:36:18.620older all you young listeners you'll get there too by the way yeah well at the same time as in0.99
02:36:28.520theory you kind of mellow out at the same time too and recognize the um there's certain things
02:36:34.040that you'll draw a line in the sand for and not put up with anymore but there's also a lot of
02:36:38.280things that you realize that there's a lot more ambiguity in the world than, or not so much
02:36:45.180ambiguity, but there's a lot more mysteries in the world that you're much more comfortable to live
02:36:49.340with. But this, I see, this is what really attracted to me this, because it gets at the
02:36:55.500contrast between, because there's this question of, okay, so we live in the technological society.
02:37:04.300And I've described this to people as what we would call the tank problem.
02:37:08.320Okay, so, all right, you're done with technological society.0.69
02:37:12.260You're going to go out and you're going to start your own little Amish community and you're going to live like it's in the 1800s.0.98
02:37:18.460Well, that's wonderful for you, right?0.87
02:37:20.540Well, you have to realize that the only reason why the Amish can do that is there really no threat to the American state.
02:37:26.820And so they're allowed to live their peaceful, you know, what's the word, where the nonviolent society and their peaceniks and so forth, and everybody kind of leaves them be.
02:37:41.620But you guarantee you that the moment that the that the American state deems them to be a threat, they'll squash them because that's what you have to do.
02:37:48.200Because I was so the criticism against the libertarians originally many, many years ago, which is we just want to be left alone.
02:37:54.540You eventually spend enough time in that pool and you realize, well, they won't leave you alone.
02:37:59.460Not on the timeline, at least within maybe within a few years.
02:38:02.920But then your survival is assured insofar as you can make yourself less and less threatening and more and more like some underclass and you're running towards being underclass.
02:38:14.380That's totally anathema to what a lot of people in our space would want to do because they are virile and righteous and ambitious and they don't want to just make themselves – they don't want to run towards being serfs.
02:38:27.020So that's a hard sell for a lot of people.
02:38:28.560And if they're being honest, they might say, I just want to live on a homestead.
02:38:32.580But you're actually trying to install a multi-generational project to accumulate sovereignty.
02:38:38.520And that's the whole point of the network state.
02:38:39.860The end point is how do you become a nation?
02:38:41.900how do you become an entity that you know i'm trying not to curse that much on this show i have0.99
02:38:47.960respect for the christian ghetto but you want to make yourself into a group that can't be fucked0.97
02:38:51.940with how do you become and part of that is the threat of violence but part of that is just0.88
02:38:56.420economic sovereignty like how do you become a nation within a nation that it's more difficult
02:39:01.300to roll you over than it is just to deal with you a good example would be the cartels in mexico we
02:39:07.480can get to that later but there's examples from around the world of what that looks like but the
02:39:11.820goal, remember, isn't just to make yourself as powerless as possible. You actually want
02:39:17.060sovereignty for you and your group or your people or whatever. And that will eventually
02:39:21.540gain the negative attention of whatever the state is. So we have to solve for that.
02:39:27.160Well, and this is why you end up with a number of dynamics, because I'll loop back to what I
02:39:30.700was talking earlier. And this is one of the problems that Americans' Protestantism,
02:39:35.720even conservative Protestantism is facing is that that they hitch their wagon to a certain
02:39:42.180version of the American state as their protection. Right. And so this is that thing that Schmidt
02:39:46.720notices, you know, the protection obedience binary. So you have a group that protects you.
02:39:51.980They provide prosperity for you. So you then are obedient to them. And so there was a certain
02:39:58.680segment of the Christian community that hitched its wagon to mid-century American dominance.
02:40:06.320And that included embracing market capitalism, the whole free trade, all of the myths and
02:40:18.100the features of the 20th century, late 20th century, post-World War II version of the
02:40:26.860American state was also let me just say this is what my friend Ryan Turnipseed would say the
02:40:31.200Mormons did with the CIA yeah sorry to interrupt you keep going no no no so then so then you have
02:40:40.340this thing where you know you you then shift and adapt your beliefs towards protection so
02:40:46.620if you want to avoid that dynamic as you say you have to be sovereign now the problem is0.77
02:40:52.080is that unlike the Mennonites, you recognize it to be sovereign, you know, as an image, you know,0.97
02:40:59.840you can say, well, assembly lines are terrible and we don't want it because they're evil and0.60
02:41:03.760that's technology and technology corrupts us and we become subservient to it. So we're not going to
02:41:08.520build tanks. But the problem is, is that the American empire and most other, you know, modern
02:41:13.700states have no such qualms. They need, they've got their tanks, they've got their air. So you then
02:41:18.520still have to figure out a way to grapple with the tanks that they have. So you have to somehow
02:41:25.340make peace with a level of technological sophistication. Even if you don't embrace
02:41:30.420its utopian ideals, you have to find a way to grapple with and deal with and neuter the tank
02:41:41.180threat of your enemy. Otherwise, you're going to then be in this protection obedience binary
02:41:45.900where you are subservient and obedient and have to do obeisance to the particular, you know,
02:41:54.400demands of the larger state apparatus. And so parallelism is great. And it gets you back to
02:42:02.000this kind of sense of fundamental, you know, of first principles, how do you form the state,
02:42:06.280but there's a whole series of exigencies that you then have to grapple with, like you say,
02:42:11.440you know, how do you provide an economic system? Where's your energy coming from? Where's your
02:42:15.840food coming from? Where's your protection coming from? And you can think you can have a little
02:42:21.120village of, you know, Mennonite adjacent type of community where everybody's kumbaya.
02:42:27.100But that's fine and dandy, as long as you don't represent a threat to anybody. And this is0.53
02:42:31.380perhaps some of like the idea of the, you know, the Christianities being a ghetto community,0.76
02:42:36.380that you exist on the fringes of society and just hope not to be noticed, right? But the
02:42:41.360problem is, is that if you're successful in spreading the gospel, you begin to break out1.00
02:42:46.020that ghetto community grows to become a threat. And then once it becomes a threat, now you have0.96
02:42:51.200you face certain dilemmas of, you know, is there a certain segment of the of the community that
02:42:57.400have a calling from God to protect the rest of the people? And that means then getting their
02:43:02.120hands dirty with violence. And I would argue that's something I've done here is that I would
02:43:05.800argue that, yes, that is a viable vocation from God. And you can grapple with the theology of
02:43:11.700that, but that's part of what you would call the kingly aspect of the gospel is to protect your
02:43:17.940fellow man so that they can worship in peace and not have to get their hands dirty with violence.
02:43:22.700No, you raise a very, very good point there, which is, do you measure your effectiveness
02:43:28.240of sovereignty by being just a miniature version of that which persecutes you? Because the end of
02:43:34.280the network state, just to go back to that example, is you eventually accumulate enough
02:43:38.480geographic capital. You have an area that you live in that you can actually become a nation
02:43:44.160within a nation. But does that work against you? Is that just something that can be taken from you?
02:43:48.040Or in the 21st century, is the global American empire, or they call it the GAE sometimes, but
02:43:57.660whatever the Western state apparatus is, the NATO superstructure, does it even make sense to try
02:44:03.820to be a smaller contender within that or do you need to take a different form entirely which is
02:44:10.060one thing that i take from what you're saying which is to be truly parallel do you need to be
02:44:14.580something supra state and arguably that's what religion can be but maybe needs to change its
02:44:21.840form because people like i said are looking for ideological solutions from religion but you know
02:44:27.540there's but frankly you know to be honest with you dimes i've never really i've always conceived
02:44:31.880of it in terms of, you know, the whole, the very traditional, you buy your land, you get your
02:44:36.420homesteads, you build your community from scratch. But what you're hinting at is if you take the idea
02:44:42.300of a ghetto community that exists on the margin of society, that why doesn't, why couldn't it be0.91
02:44:50.880a kind of fifth generation warfare type of situation where you're landless and that works0.93
02:44:58.380And it makes you actually more resistant to the predations of both the rewards and the punishments of the state apparatus, which is everywhere globally still, because you operate on the fringes of society.
02:45:13.820And I have the shape of this. I don't have the exact details, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around something that can be victorious and trying to reconcile it with the reality that for any group or community to be effective, it does need to have geographic proximity to itself. Like if you're building a gang-
02:45:41.860But is that the end point? Some people say we're going to take something that's digital and bring it to the real world. I'm trying to think of what does a better synthesis of that look like? And again, this is just me thinking aloud, but this is where I'm at these days.
02:45:56.620You know, it's a funny example. We were talking about this before the show started. I was doing a lot of reading in Mexican drug cartels and narcos culture. And there's one element of that that a lot of people find very interesting. And it works its way into all the media about this Breaking Bad, Sicario, any cartel show. It's the narcos religions.
02:46:16.620and it's sort of a i wouldn't say a satanic perversion of catholicism but it is a branch
02:46:24.200a mexican branch of catholicism with its own saints there's a malverde who's their patron
02:46:30.420saint of the narcos religion who was a real guy a real narco who died and they just worship him now
02:46:35.800almost like a pagan saint and then there's also lady death who is what it sounds like it's a0.84
02:46:41.400fucking grim reaper lady in a dress that they pray to um and i was reading this book called0.81
02:46:46.540el narcos but there's a lot there's a lot of media about cartels because we're so fascinated with it0.99
02:46:51.800in fact that's one of the main arguments people say cartels don't exist i won't get into that
02:46:55.640right now these religions exist and i would call them closer to pagan religions because people0.99
02:47:00.980prefer these saints because they can make offerings and wishes and leave them fucking0.98
02:47:04.780vodka and cigarettes and shit and they'll take care of their enemies you see the more like pagan0.99
02:47:09.420rituals but they're popular not only with the narcos but also lower class mexican civilians0.97
02:47:16.060these these shrines it's not the biggest religion but it is it's becoming more widespread and you'll
02:47:22.640have malverde or santa muerte side by side with mary and jesus right and they see there's all
02:47:30.020just one part of it now what's interesting is what are the cartels the cartels are non-ideological
02:47:35.320They're not political in any sense. They're an emergent capitalistic phenomena, but they are politically relevant. They are culturally relevant, and they're very relevant to the identity of Mexico. It's so relevant that they birth their own fucking religion.
02:47:50.180And so you have this non-state, non-ideological entity that births something out of it that I think is bigger than the state itself.1.00
02:47:59.680So the ultimate outgrowth of that interplay between culture and capitalism, all this other shit, is this weird, fucked up religion that could only have emerged from the geographic area of Mexico.0.95
02:48:13.280But here it's like a 20th century thing.0.99
02:48:16.400It's a new thing, kind of like Scientology.
02:48:19.140But you see how this is different than Scientology. And it appeals, like you had said, to the people in the ghettos, to the underclasses, but also to this new nobility, the nobility of the narcos, the people who seem to hold real power, at least comparable to the state.
02:48:37.540like they are truly an emergency but like a very different sort of thing they're not a revolutionary
02:48:42.180party either so there i just love that because you have a new not a mythology even but an actual
02:48:49.840religion that people pray to as something that could outlive each particular cartel because
02:48:54.580cartels are rising and falling and rising falling we have this new thing that has the ability to be
02:49:00.080bigger than maybe even mexico itself yeah so this this this this emergent kind of
02:49:06.880pagan offshoot of catholicism um becomes the binding force which unites the cartels as they
02:49:15.600as you say as they come and go they all participate and it's interesting like you
02:49:19.920say too that the common man then in this protection obedience binary adapts his own
02:49:25.580like catholic faith to this in that sense corrupting it but he's doing it because he's
02:49:33.040paying obeisance to the the the the powers that that govern his life and part of the powers that
02:49:40.820govern his life is this this this emergent pagan religion and which is sort of a you know a case
02:49:50.080study in some sense of how um cultures develop yeah and also to your earlier point about how
02:49:56.760christianity developed like it was the adoption of the aristocracy the nobility yeah that's part
02:50:02.700of it the widespread acceptance of christianity had something to do with the elites adopting it
02:50:08.780but it's also true that it was emergent from the people it's a very holistic phenomenon um in the
02:50:14.920history of the spread and the triumph of christianity like we talked about rodney stark on
02:50:19.760the show we talked about cochran in a christianity classical culture an amazing work i'm going to
02:50:25.560talk about with my buddy prudentialist on that show our sister show do you even read there's a
02:50:29.760lot there if you want to look into the history of the dominance of christianity it wasn't this
02:50:36.780you know mythologized mass adoption and once there was fits and starts and ebbs and flows
02:50:41.120but you see how these things and and also the how they spread also through the history of
02:50:47.200proselytization proselytization sorry i always get that word wrong and there's another great
02:50:52.460book called uh some people disagree with that but i think fundamentally it's correct of the
02:50:57.160germanization of early medieval christianity and how you would proselytize christianity to
02:51:04.780the germanic people and that's an interesting that's an interesting phenomenon the transformations
02:51:10.020that occur there yeah and there's actually a synthesis if you've ever picked up say something
02:51:14.160like wrote like roland like 1200s roland is a good example of of this um it seems very alien
02:51:21.380to sort of modern christianity but this is that roland is a really good example of that germanic
02:51:28.440christian synthesis exactly and you can tell the germanic nature the argument of the book
02:51:34.540was that the germanic nature fed back into the church into the early catholic church and
02:51:39.740It imparted a distinct European-ness to the Catholic Church, which is, I think, why it resonates so much with the Europeans, because it wasn't birthed in Italy, in the Vatican.
02:51:50.880It came from the East, in a sense, but by degrees, it took on a very profound European character.
02:51:56.440And the argument was that, because you would attempt missionary work all throughout the world.
02:52:06.040They tried a lot of places, but it seemed to take in very specific European tribes and whatnot.
02:52:12.560However, it succeeded insofar as it was able to adopt or interface with at least some of the existing social hierarchies and value sets.
02:52:24.580So the argument of the book was that as they succeeded in converting the Germanic tribes, you started to see Christianity itself take on some Germanic characteristics, like seeing Christ as more of a heroic figure.
02:52:38.100You adopted this Germanic idea of heroism, which isn't to say you adopted all their gods and whatnot, but you kind of adhered a bit more and popularized their understanding of the gods and the paranormal.
02:52:51.680And so what you see with the church is where it extends, it also synthesizes in some sense. It becomes dominant. Maybe it's a 70-30, but that's also the case of the English language as well.
02:53:04.380Whereas if you look at the expansion of the language throughout the world, it tends to get indigenized wherever it extends to and that kind of feeds back into English itself. And that was one of the claims made by Love Linguists is that English lost a lot of its Anglo character, the more it dominated the world, which is in a sense a problem of imperialism as well. You see that in any imperialist project. And again, I'm throwing a lot at you there.
02:53:30.780No. And what's interesting, too, about this whole period is people don't really realize that Europe wasn't really fully Christianized until I think like 1300, you know, when you get up into the Scandinavian countries.
02:53:44.460It wasn't that it happened instantaneously. And one of the interesting transformations, as you noted, in Germanic societies, it had a twofold effect of restraining and giving purpose to violence that probably wasn't quite developed in the Germanic peoples.
02:54:07.900It was, you know, violence and dominance, you know, have always been part of the Germanic peoples in that regard.
02:54:14.060But it was really Christianity that allowed that violence to be transformed into something that was civilizational building.0.82
02:54:22.920And that's in the sense that it's the marriage of the Germanic and the Christian that births in some sense the Faustian spirit.0.72
02:54:33.160The only problem is, is that they very quickly lost control of it.0.87
02:54:37.260And it began to eat itself very quickly, which is unfortunate because this idea of conquering the world and pressing out to the horizons has a very strong Christian bent to it in terms of converting the whole world is in a sense almost a quasi-Faustian idea.0.82
02:54:56.520But if you take that with the Germanic heroic idea of conquering the world, marrying it to the idea of Christian conversion, you now almost, in a sense, have a match made in heaven where Christianity can, in a sense, contain the worst excesses of Germanic violence while channeling its endeavor or channeling its energies to, in a sense, conquer the world with Christianity.0.74
02:55:20.900But it gets run off because they can't restrain this impulse because they want to conquer knowledge and they want to conquer finances and they want to conquer technology.
02:55:30.540And Christianity by the 1700s isn't capable of containing that desire for conquest across all of these areas.
02:55:40.840And it begins to break apart and eat itself, unfortunately.
02:55:43.480And that's such a fascinating conflict is that the dialectical tension between the universalization inherent in the church, but also the particularism of those cultures that have informed it.
02:55:56.960And that to me, you know, one of the aspects of Hagel that I like is that that is the synthesis.
02:56:04.000Maybe that's a tension that never gets resolved.
02:56:06.200Perhaps we're just negotiating that for as long as we're going to be in existence.
02:56:10.480And maybe we're the only ones that can navigate that.
02:56:14.020And I wanted to just call attention to an interesting sub stack I read.
02:56:17.720I did a episode on real secret coffee hours, which is my paywall show on this.
02:56:22.960And this I'd said, this is just at the end of the episode.
02:56:26.980It's this, it's from this sub stack called the Seagirt Citadel.
02:56:31.460The title is the night, death and the devil meditations on the world.
02:56:35.040It's very prose heavy. It's very poetic. But someone had sent it to me and they said, here is an interesting example positioning the knight, the figure of the knight, as an answer to the barbarian, which is a very popular archetype in our space, like the barbarian vitalism, the masculinity of the barbarian, the unhinged masculinity to rape.
02:56:59.340yeah and so but that is the only antithesis to feminization inherent in modern society that we
02:57:07.380have so a lot of people default to that but it was saying like well what of the knight the knight was
02:57:11.040also a martial class the knight as you had said was a more focused violence it wasn't just unhinged
02:57:16.320violence and the character of the knight and you don't see this depicted in popular culture really
02:57:21.080we love the barbarian we love conan there's a lot of pop culture acceptance of the barbarian but
02:57:26.300the knight is never portrayed as cool or relevant but the knight was also violent the knight was
02:57:31.760driven the knight wanted to reproduce you know a lot of these masculine characteristics but
02:57:37.840the knight i think is a bit more relevant to the modern westerner because he did have an
02:57:44.280understanding of a higher power you know he was christianized insofar as he was also a martial
02:57:50.880class but he embraced violence he embraced the conflict he was at war but he's also kind of a
02:57:56.280lonely figure he's he takes on the suffering you know he stands apart and i actually think
02:58:01.300the figure that stands apart resonates more with the westerner than this sort of
02:58:07.820vague collectiveness of the war band you know i just think that's sort of oh yeah like the the
02:58:13.280holy warrior who yeah the shining example the problem is is that virtue doesn't sell it because
02:58:18.780As soon as you've got this archetype of the holy warrior, immediately you want to begin to test that and fraud it and subject it to all kinds of tests and things to see, is he really as virtuous as it?
02:58:37.000And the drama of that internal conflict of the corruption of the knight seems to sell far better than the aspiration for virtue and the sacrifices necessary to attain it.
02:58:48.780Yeah. And also, there's something you mentioned, the underlying point that you're bringing up is the corruption of something greater by making it into a technique.
02:59:00.220And I've also explained that as the politicization of religion.
02:59:02.980But basically, the core of what you're saying is very interesting.
02:59:06.600And I'm always pointing to these books I read recently, so forgive me if I sound pretentious, but the thing is, I am.
02:59:14.280So there's this book that I read recently called The Disenchantment of the World.
02:59:18.780A Political History of Religion by Marcel Gaucher. And that sounds like a very highfalutin topic. The entire history of belief, who would read that? It's only like 250 pages. How can you get to everything? And I think it's associated somewhat with the Tavistock Institute. I don't know for sure, but reading it, it has kind of Tavistock fingerprints on it.
02:59:41.100But it's explaining it almost from an atheistic point of view. But there's this idea in there that once you tried to combine rationalism with religion, which was, it had its own momentum in the West, that the moment you try and rationalize religion, you can, but you bring it into the realm of rationalization, which distances you from the hereafter, from the world of the paranormal, from the world of miracles.
03:00:09.760And there's this lovely idea that he repeats again and again in the book that the more you can dissect and understand something, the more you have dominion over it, the more you control it.
03:00:20.240So I think that's what a lot of people feel now.
03:00:23.720And I'm guilty of this as much as anyone because I'm a Catholic, but I wasn't raised in the church.
03:00:30.620And so the way I had to approach it, whether I wanted to or not, because I live in Canada, I live in a 21st century, rationalized liberal world, I had to approach it from a liberal perspective. And this is what traditionalists like Evola and who wrote, who was that guy? The guy who wrote The Reign of Quantity and the Sign of the Times.
03:00:52.380Anyway, a lot of the traditionalists will say, like, it's impossible for you to truly apprehend anything traditional because you're locked in a liberal mindset.
03:01:01.540So even when you embrace traditional ideas, you do it from a liberal standpoint.
03:01:04.920And I don't really know how to break that.
03:01:06.660And the argument that Gaucher was making in the book was that, yes, we view religion now from above, but that means we're not subject to it.
03:01:19.200And what I find that this is a very bold claim. But I think when I see a lot of people who are the most religiously devout, they have faith in the importance of faith, which is righteous and good. But I don't think they are immersed in their religion the same way an ancient person might do go back to the Bronze Age, go back to tribal societies where you don't even have to go back that far.
03:01:44.860You can just go back to like pre-Protestant Reformation in many ways.
03:01:50.240Well, or even not even that far back, even probably like 1700, you could probably still.
03:01:55.740The idea that the whole of your society, you know, revolves around your religion.
03:02:02.320So, you know, in a 365 day calendar year, you might have 100 saint days or religious festivals and your whole day, you know, you get up in the morning, you go to mass.
03:02:14.000Everything that you do, the most dominant architecture in your city is your church.
03:02:18.280Everything that you do is done around the rhythm of your religion and your faith.
03:03:35.220And you can see the seeds of feminism going all the way back to courtly literature and the idea that a man has to resolve himself around women's desires, right?
03:03:46.260It's all there in like the 1100s in the courtly literature.
03:03:50.000It's just people aren't paying attention to the fact that feminism goes back that far, like modern day feminism goes back that far.
03:03:55.980And the quote unquote woman problem or woman question goes back to like the 1100s.0.50
03:04:18.820And James Unwin, it's an anthropological study of tribes throughout the world and different levels of civilizational advancement and whether or not they adhere to sexual morality.
03:04:32.500And he was actually drawing a correlation between a tribe's understanding of monogamy and chastity versus their level of spiritual attainment.
03:04:42.940And so he had multiple levels that you can progress through.
03:04:45.360There's the dead level, which a lot of tribes are at, which is they don't really see value in honoring the dead, period.
03:04:53.880They don't communicate with the afterlife at all, or they don't have any way to interface with it.
03:04:59.140Now they might have a belief in gods, but they're understanding they don't have an interest in the mechanics of the spiritual. And so they don't have really many rites or rituals. But as you progress, then you have, oh, this person died, but they're important. So their spirit is still here. Okay, now you have an understanding of the connection between this world and the paranormal world or the world of the spirits.
03:05:23.460And then you start establishing certain areas where you build temples, but these are not, not everyone does this. And he was charting the correlation between it seems that as they advance their understanding and their interfacing with the spiritual realm, they seem to understand the importance of sexual morality.
03:05:41.380And so the argument of the book was, if you can prioritize not just virginity, but chastity, if you're anti-adultery, if you understand the importance of raising your children, that is the mark of a more advanced tribe, right?
03:05:55.260And so I forget where I was going with this, but that's just an interesting thing about how you can sort of progress through your understanding of interacting with the spiritual world and how that correlates with your advancement otherwise.
03:06:07.780And just back to the main point I was making there before, the argument is made with Christianity that as we try and draw lines around the spiritual realm, we can control it more, but we distance ourselves further and further and further away from it, which is where we are right now.
03:06:23.020We look upon the spiritual realm or even traditional religion as a distant thing that we're trying to grasp.
03:06:34.060Some of us just adorn ourselves, like I said, with the regalia of it.
03:06:37.780But what are they really trying to – is their true religion Christianity or is it progressivism?
03:06:44.360Well, see, this gets into – and this can get you into all kinds of trouble in Christian circles.
03:06:49.800But I have long observed and gotten myself into trouble beforehand by arguing that the notion of systematic theology is itself the application of the same cultural forces that produce managerialism, but applying it to the Christian faith.
03:07:06.240So in a sense, you're rationalizing it.
03:07:09.140You're trying to come up with ever more, I don't know, necessarily sophisticated, but you're looking for the one true interpretation of scripture to explain every contradiction or every mystery.
03:07:27.160And there is, you're looking for a definitive final expression of the Christian faith that is the most adherent to truth.
03:07:37.600And there's a lot of folks now who, in trying to restore Christianity, are looking at scripture almost like a policy manual.
03:07:48.640So in a sense, what we need to do is we need to, you know, get back to God's truth and we need to just interpret it faithfully and apply it properly and do this across society and everything will be fine.
03:08:02.080And this is an over characterization, but you can see the same impulse as the liberal in a sense of what we have to do is do our scientific research, figure out how society works, and then we can apply the right solutions across society and we can fix everything that's wrong.
03:08:20.940And it's a very, very similar impulse. And it comes back to, are you familiar with Ian McGilchrist's The Master and His Emissary of the Divided Brain Hat?
03:08:31.180So there is this sense that when a human being is in balance, you have this intuitive side of yourself that's able to grasp not just physical reality, material reality, but also the unseen, the spiritual, the intuitive.
03:08:44.840and then you have this other side of your brain that takes this intuitive things and makes it
03:08:50.100useful you know it systematizes it organizes it speeds it up so that way you can make it useful
03:08:55.600for operating your life building civilization and so forth and what McGilchrist argues is that we've
03:09:00.700gone so much down the path of this rationalized side of ourself that you know you think like
03:09:07.000exercise we almost don't use this intuitive side of ourself at all anymore and as a result we're
03:09:11.980we're making ourselves almost like autistically schizophrenic because we're just sort of tilted
03:09:17.880to this one side yeah and you it's crazy is that like like you said you're looking for religion
03:09:22.720to solve a utility problem like christianity is not going to solve the mass migration problem
03:09:28.200and the solution can't be well we just need to make a new religion which is what a lot of people
03:09:32.680do and you see or if we just find the right interpretation of scripture then we'll have
03:09:37.420the path forward for dealing with the immigrant problem which is treating scripture like a
03:09:41.860contract it's like i see their subsection yeah policy manual it's like i i just i zoomed in
03:09:48.480and here's the part where it says i can do what i want to do politically i'm like that's not even
03:09:53.360the right way to look at i even saw an article or a meme recently that says did you know you
03:09:58.340can calculate the exact place and the exact date that jesus was crucified and then from there the
03:10:03.840exact date where he died and where he died i'm like okay does that make it more or less true
03:10:08.980does it make it more or less important that you could actually point to on a map it's like oh
03:10:14.400that's where he was and here's what he said doesn't even add anything and that's what a lot
03:10:19.220of people to the importance of the gospel at all and that's what a lot of people who corrupt
03:10:23.020christianity a lot of the leftists which is like oh you know jesus said this which means he's a
03:10:26.700hippie which means he probably smoked weed right they're getting into technicalities about which
03:10:31.880of their friends Jesus would be like and like that's such such a low resolution view of what
03:10:37.980this is well and this gets back to that question of of as you say like like like first principles
03:10:45.100dimes because I have argued that you know in contrast to the technical world where everything
03:10:51.860is is refined abstracted put into a policy manual made into a solution like you were talking you
03:10:58.340said, you know, sort of what's that one thing, right? And I've argued that in a real living
03:11:04.920community in this regard, everybody can hold the basic ideas that bind the community together
03:11:13.100within themselves in memory, right? So everybody in a sense knows this is how we do things. This
03:11:19.640is the way we do things around here. And if something is wrong, the explanation is as simple
03:11:26.320as, well, that's not how we do things around here. You don't necessarily even have to justify it.
03:11:31.720You know, you could say, well, God doesn't want us doing that, but we've interiorized that
03:11:37.580knowledge to the point where you're saying, yes, this was, it's originates in divine revelation.
03:11:42.900God gave this to us, but that's just not the way we do things around here. We, this is how we live
03:11:48.900and we keep this and hold this. And so there's this idea that as a community, all the important
03:11:53.620things can be held in your hand. And so you have, Elul talks about sort of the pre-technological
03:12:00.200society use of technique, because law is a technique. It's a technology. And so the more
03:12:07.360that you can hold law organically in memory, the less technical it becomes. And so you take a few
03:12:14.800of these commands or ideas, and then a new situation crops up that doesn't quite fit the
03:12:20.020mold, the elders get together and they make a kind of judgment on it based upon sort of this is the
03:12:25.640way we do things. In this situation, we take the limited tools we have, and this is what the ruling
03:12:31.100is. Now, in the modern society, we want to keep remembering all of these, writing them all down.
03:12:36.140But in an organic community, there may be no need to write it down because these basic core
03:12:43.260principles suffice. And maybe this event is significant enough that it stays in memory,
03:12:51.080But at the same time, you resolve it using these basic principles.
03:12:54.240And so this is kind of the contrast to that and the technological reality.
03:12:58.100And then you ask the question of, well, how do you break out of the tech?
03:13:02.500Well, what's kind of the things that the technological world really can't control?
03:13:07.860So you get to basic things like prayer.
03:13:12.860And in some ways, like real community, you know, sharing meals together.
03:13:17.760So there's all of these basic things that in a sense, I mean, you could technologize and people can try, like you can write a book, you know, 30 things to do to make your family Christmas dinner a success.
03:13:28.980But everybody knows that's kind of a perversion of actual traditions.
03:13:33.860And you see a lot of the Jordan Peterson's of the world.
03:13:37.140I'm not trying to criticize him too much, but they would say they would try and psychoanalyze religion.
03:13:42.120It's like, well, you would say that prayer is important on a baseline level.
03:13:47.640he would say well let's let's look what prayer is we can put electrodes in your brain and tell
03:13:53.340that when you pray it stimulates this part of your brain which makes you feel good and things
03:13:57.300that make you feel good you should do more good things like that's like a stephen pinker way of0.99
03:14:02.760looking at it which is we're going to rationalize prayer with fucking brain waves but you're trying0.59
03:14:07.140to break ourselves out of that because you know the criticism of a lot of these i don't want to0.97
03:14:12.800call them scientists but scientismists would be like oh god oh can i put god in a flask can i
03:14:19.340weigh prayer can call god to the courtroom oh if you can't call him the courtroom then it doesn't
03:14:24.420he doesn't exist within law so why does it exist anywhere why does it matter and so yeah like we're
03:14:29.420trying to apprehend i use that word a lot i apologize but try and grasp something that truly
03:14:34.800exists outside of these systems because these systems won't permit that to exist within them
03:14:39.680And that was, you know, what Gautier was talking about, which is that as you as you become more rationalistic, you begin to dissect these ideas and in dissecting them, you kill them, you rob it of its spirituality.
03:14:51.440So, yes, you can systematize these religions, you can make them more technical or adhere them to technique, but then it won't be what you want it to be.
03:15:01.200You'll just you'll make politics out of the Bible.
03:15:04.700And then then it's even more easy to corrupt because you can still have a rationalist enter that and pick that apart with their tool.
03:15:12.100Because in some sense, it's divorced from the original, from the power of the stories.
03:15:15.820And that would be the sense, too, of of that question.
03:15:18.800So how do you break out of the system?
03:15:20.580Well, in a sense, you just go back to reading the stories again.
03:15:23.840Yeah. And that's what I was talking about with with Conclave, which is as much as I dislike that movie and that character.
03:15:29.340what is the role of the church is it to fight muslims or is it to fight satan if you had to0.63
03:15:34.780pick one as politically uncomfortable as that might make it because people want you know they
03:15:40.860enjoy eastern orthodoxy because it's very it's a biblical idea that you're in you are in a battle
03:15:45.820with the evil one to you are christ's you know frontline soldiers maybe perhaps in a battle with
03:15:53.500the evil one to liberate people from their bondage to the evil one. That's kind of the struggle that
03:16:00.120you're in. People don't like the universalization of politics. I understand that. But there's some
03:16:05.120areas where we should have attempts at universalizing these very, very large problems.
03:16:12.700And that's what I think some of these religions, these religions attempt to do and trying to
03:16:17.840politicize it. I think just once again, dissects it with rationality and makes it into something
03:16:22.440that's not only ill-equipped to solve the problem, but is even more corruptible by your foes.
03:16:28.820Well, and to get at this idea that you're a parallel community, you might say a ghetto0.73
03:16:35.540community is sort of fifth generation warfare type of stuff, but you can exist as a church community.
03:16:42.200You don't even necessarily have to have a building, but you can get together and you can share meals.
03:16:47.400You can get together and read the word, or you can do it on your own. You can pray.
03:16:52.440But you can exist as a real organic functioning community alongside of the technological world in a sense of just practicing doing the right thing by approaching sort of, in a sense, as you say, Dimes, just sort of focusing down on what are the fundamental principles in a sense that lay beneath the abstracted realities of the technological.
03:17:16.300What is the stuff that the technological society has abstracted, rationalized, and then technologized?
03:17:25.040Because there's still a real organic reality that lives underneath that's still there that can be lived in a way that isn't technologized and rationalized and abstracted.
03:17:36.780It can be lived in a real organic way.
03:17:39.080You can pray as an antidote to the technological society.
03:17:43.040You can worship as an antidote to the technological society.
03:17:46.500You can gather as communities as an antidote to the technological side.
03:17:50.720And you can also do things that when somebody in the community is without a job, they lose their job, you can help them keep their house and their mortgage and you can help find them work in the meantime until they find something better.
03:18:02.740And you can, in a sense, live apart from the rewards and the punishments of the regime to the degree that is possible.
03:18:13.540And you can obtain, even alongside, living in this ghetto alongside of the regime, you can maintain a fair degree of sovereignty over your life.
03:18:23.880This is something that Ernst van Zyl talks about a lot in terms of South Africa, is that the state has taken all of these things and you can reclaim them.
03:18:33.100So you can teach your own children. You can do that. That's OK.
03:18:37.740You know, and you can you can find you can support each other and find work.
03:18:40.660But now you might not be working for a Fortune 500 company and you might not drive a Ferrari, but you can have a really good life and you can have friends.
03:18:49.380You can have intimacy with God and you can have a relative degree of freedom from the predations of the regime if you're willing to live that kind of first principles, authentic kind of lifestyle.
03:19:03.680Yeah, that's something my co-host, Judas, ironic name, of course, but he would adhere more towards that living.
03:19:11.540He's trying to redefine what the good life is outside of just, you know, just the high paying job or materialist ends.
03:19:18.660and he is succeeding pretty well at that i'm bougie though i'm a fancy boy i like expensive
03:19:24.560sushi i like things that are truffle flavored so we'll see how i fare out in the collapse right
03:19:30.380oh my word that's hilarious yeah you know i was just tweeting something out i i managed to
03:19:39.740um acquire through you know canadian it's a it's a multicultural society i did some business with
03:19:46.620some folks. And as one of the things I got given a gift of, um, some, um, domestic market, like
03:19:52.800high-end domestic market, like Chinese domestic market teas that basically had to be brought over
03:19:58.040from China. It just so happened when I was doing a deal with this guy that, um, he was coming back
03:20:03.960from thing. He says, I was just back from China. I have this wonderful tea says, why don't you take
03:20:07.160it as a gift? And I went like, well, and you know, somebody online asks, is this tea better than the
03:20:12.120stuff? And I said, yes, it's, it's actually much better than stuff. But if we kick all the Chinese
03:20:15.600out how am i going to get my high end keep one everyone's allowed to have one my high-end domestic0.97
03:20:23.120you know chinese domestic market teas that are just um night and day different look at that
03:20:28.300you buy here even the nazis would keep one jew around because bagels are good we like bagels so0.52
03:20:34.240i i like deli sandwiches look yeah i'm really getting it all in as i'm sure we're finishing0.98
03:20:43.420Yeah, so if somebody has survived this long, I'm sure that they are not going to take offense
03:20:48.600at that. And this is something, this is actually with Peg online that I've joked beforehand. One
03:20:57.120of the things that's wrong with political correctness is that you eliminate all the
03:21:01.380ethnic jokes. And part of the thing of ethnic jokes is you both get to laugh at yourself0.70
03:21:07.180and laugh at each other in a way that diffuses tensions between different groups. It allows you
03:21:13.160to keep your identity it allows you to embrace your identity it allows you to laugh at yourself
03:21:17.640and it allows you to be laughed at and it allows you to do the same about others also and the very0.60
03:21:23.240real fear is we don't tell we don't tell ethnic jokes anymore the real fear is if we stop telling0.85
03:21:28.860polish jokes polish people might stop existing like i don't know what they do unless that like0.99
03:21:36.580that's i think a third of their gdp it must be you know we speak the polish people into existence0.87
03:21:43.320poland oh my word it's been known that poland is a tulpa that we just create through political0.93
03:21:52.940incorrectness there is no poland we just stop looking at it
03:21:58.580if poland falls in the forest nobody hears it yeah falls in the forest does any what happens
03:22:06.560oh my word there we know well i don't yeah i don't think we've entirely exhausted but it's
03:22:16.760been a rambling conversation and that's been good i've really enjoyed this dimes it's been
03:22:20.660fun to chat and to just sort of noodle around this idea for a while and um but if anybody
03:22:26.760is really diligent and they would like to find you online um maybe just give a plug into the
03:22:32.600kind of things that you do other than providing intros to probably several dozen now of um you
03:22:39.860know well-known internet personalities um who who've had their in their their intros to their
03:22:45.360videos and so forth prepared by you but other than doing that what are the kind of things that you do
03:22:49.700yeah just so people know we're open to more uh intro and trailer work um the recent one we did
03:22:55.800was we worked on martyr mates a trailer for his a war the german people's war which was i didn't