00:00:02Candice, Andrew, you know, good to sit down here with you,
00:00:06talking to you guys about the conversation that I think started with you being on Joe Rogan
00:00:10when you said, hey, I'm offering $300,000.
00:00:13And for the audience watching this, you have to know when you see this final product,
00:00:16there's a lot of stuff that happens behind closed doors.
00:00:19There was still communication till midnight, even some of the stuff this morning.
00:00:22It's like you're trying to sell a company.
00:00:24It's the last 24 hours that the deal doesn't work out,
00:00:27but kudos to the both of you guys that you made it work.
00:00:30The topic of discussion today, how this got prompted is, Andrew, you said there's overwhelming evidence that Tyler Robinson shot and killed Charlie Kirk.
00:00:40And Candace, your position was he's a patsy.
00:01:27So you have the ability to say, I agree, I disagree, comment, do all the stuff that you're doing online.
00:01:32And if you want to see more of these things, any of the three channels, subscribe to them, the Candice Show, the Crucible.
00:01:38I'm sure some of the people from Crucible are watching as well, and the PBD Podcast.
00:01:41The more you subscribe to this, the more we're able to deliver these types of conversations to you.
00:01:46And last but not least, it's about the two of you.
00:01:48My goal is to speak as little as possible.
00:01:5199% of the time, it'll be you guys speaking, and the audience will be able to see it.
00:01:54If I jump in, just so everybody knows on the back end, both have agreed in the back, there's three people representing Andrew and three people representing Candace to do fact checking. So at any point, if somebody makes a claim, the other can say, can we fact check this? I can jump in and say fact check this. Even the folks in the back can say fact check this. So it is a very fair conversation that we're having here.
00:02:17And so with that being said, kudos to Michael Knowles.
00:07:44as each piece of evidence corroborates the others.
00:07:46You'll notice the term overwhelming was included in both theories.
00:07:49This is because Candace demanded I defend my use of that term, which I think is fair.
00:07:55In describing the evidence against Tyler Robinson, she, on the other hand, only wanted to defend her theory as merely viable.
00:08:01That is, until I showed her clips in which she said she believed the evidence of her theory, that Tyler Robinson's impatsy, was supported by overwhelming evidence.
00:08:09Only then did she agree to defend that position.
00:08:12Regardless, we're both defending the claim there's overwhelming evidence on our side, so it's worth defining that term.
00:08:17When I say the evidence against Robinson's overwhelming, all I'm saying is that I mean that as of right now, I find it very convincing.
00:08:26I see almost no evidence at all, only speculation on verified claims and suggestions of things that could merely be hypothetically possible.
00:08:33Dreams, vibes, feelings, things like this.
00:11:01It's because the prime minister of Israel, who's fighting like a 27 front war, felt that he needed to come do a little mini tour and to be strangely to state that I did not kill Charlie Kirk.
00:11:13But nobody was having that thought that I can remember.
00:11:17Nobody was going, I wonder if Bibi Netanyahu killed Charlie Kirk.
00:11:20And then we had a round of influencers who lied and said Charlie was not changing on Israel, that he wasn't having any disagreements regarding that topic.
00:11:31that the day he died, he just loved Israel so much.
00:14:13With what we've seen in terms of the evidence, I'm at zero percent.
00:14:15So not only, you know, that maybe somebody was behind him as a patsy influencing him, you're not even saying that he didn't even shoot Charlie Kirk and killed him.
00:14:23If you said, was he involved that day, as I have consistently said on my platform, I would say, yes, he was.
00:14:29I don't know what role he played, but as the shooter, zero percent.
00:20:03And I was an NRA instructor for many, many, many years alongside my gun shop.
00:20:08With your expertise, when she gave testimony on the stand, Samantha Karner, that there was dust and there was debris that was found in the gun barrel.
00:20:47Secondly, the fact that there were five sets of prints, five plus actually by the end of the testimony, five sets of prints for which we already had the woman who worked for the FBI forensics testify that above two prints, if you're taking a sample, it's no longer a science, right?
00:21:04She testified that when they took the sample of what was on the trigger, they saw five plus prints.
00:21:09And among those five plus prints, Tyler Robinson's was the most degraded.
00:21:15So I would like you to explain how Tyler Robinson's prints could be the most degraded when she said, actually, you could have DNA on something that you've touched.
00:21:25You could have DNA on something that you've never touched.
00:21:27And to get DNA degradation, they've looked at pieces, items 20, 40 years on that don't have degradation.
00:21:36Yet Tyler Robinson's prints, amongst five plus other prints, were the most degraded on that weapon.
00:21:42Yeah. So let's get into all three of the claims.
00:21:45first with debris when it comes to debris firing rifle doesn't always blow the debris out of the
00:21:49barrel okay that i i you think there could be degree uh i'm sorry debris and dust yeah he just
00:21:58fired the weapon okay not only that he left it in a forest now i don't know if if you agree with me
00:22:03but if you leave a rifle in a wooded area it's also possible that debris could get in that way
00:22:09but i'm not even sure that that's what the case is i think it's far more likely that
00:22:13you fired the shot it just didn't blow all the debris out and it often doesn't you'll find this
00:22:18if you if you take grandpappy's you know dirty rifle and it's all dusty inside the bore and you
00:22:24go fire it you'll often look down the board there's still dust okay happens all the time okay and the
00:22:28prince yeah so the prince we don't know all of the details on just yet we do it was it was
00:22:34excruciatingly long we testimony on the prince we don't because they haven't gone to trial so we
00:22:39don't know uh on the print front but tyler robinson's dna was on there you made the claim
00:22:43that lance twig's dna was on there and it was not well when she gave the testimony no first let's go
00:22:49to your first point because that's wrong we can get a fact check on that what do you mean we don't
00:22:52know until it goes to trial about the degraded prince she testified and she was the person who
00:22:56took the yes but the problem is is that inside of this particular testimony you agree with me that
00:23:01there's going to be much more of the dna analysis well i'm trial right but you also would agree that
00:23:06her fact is not going to change that among the prints his was the most degraded so i'm asking
00:23:10you to address that how could that be possible let's give it um let's just grant this for a
00:23:14second as a possibility that his fingerprints were degraded it's not a possibility it's it's
00:23:20a fact the person who took it i'm just granting it for the sake of argument you should grant it
00:23:24because it's a fact that she presented so now so now it's granted so what what do you mean so what
00:23:29yeah so what what does that prove it proves that if his prints were the most degraded amongst five
00:23:35of them. You're going to have to explain how that's possible if he's the one that recently
00:23:39fired the weapon. Yeah. So wait a second. You're saying that it's an impossibility that if his
00:23:45fingerprints are the most degraded, if that's the case. I'm telling you to explain it. You're the
00:23:49gunsmith. Well, wait a second. How would a gunsmith give an analysis on fingerprints or DNA? Do you
00:23:53think that I work in a DNA laboratory with fingerprints? So your answer is, I don't know.
00:23:57You can just say you don't know. You don't have to. But I did. No, you said, so what? So say,
00:24:02I don't know. I actually don't have an explanation for that, Candace.
00:24:05What would that prove, though, is my question.
00:24:06Well, I think that what it would prove is that it is a more viable theory that people who had stronger prints on the gun may have used it more recently.
00:24:15Did they say who else had fingerprints on the gun?
00:24:18They named Matt Robinson explicitly, and this was a part of the testimony where she was speaking about how they got elimination samples from the home of Amber Robinson, Matt Robinson, and Lance Twig.
00:24:43This was a portion of her testimony where she was explaining how they got elimination samples from the home. And she named Matt Robinson, Amber Robinson, and Lance Twiggs as the elimination samples that she was using. And so she explicitly said, she said some of them, some, so we can assume two out of the three, their prints were found on the gun.
00:25:03She explicitly named Matt Robinson as someone who had prints on the gun and then said there were five people that they had taken that sample from.
00:25:13And again, what's also relevant here is the earlier testimony, which came from the FBI forensics analyst, I believe it was on day two, where she said that when you're using those mixtures and those samples and you get up to five plus, it's really hard to make any sort of a determination.
00:26:24That sort of information is going to come out during the trial.
00:26:26How would that tie into the idea that he's a patch?
00:26:28Yes, because if his is the most degraded prince and the information that I shared on my platform is true, that this gun was given to Tyler Robinson as an heirloom.0.66
00:26:36I had conversation with members of the Robinson family, Twiggs family, both of them.
00:26:42You know, like I said, we're not just dreaming.
00:26:44And if we're having those conversations and they told me that that gun was only given to Tyler Robinson because it was a family heirloom.
00:26:51OK, so it was his grandfather's gun or great grandfather's gun.
00:27:50So the problem that you have here is that this is pure conjecture.
00:27:53No, this is hang on. This is not evidence that Tyler Robinson is a Patsy. It's only evidence that you have conjectured up that, well, if it's the case that these are the more degraded prints, then therefore that means must be Patsy because parents finger for dad's fingerprints on gun.
00:28:14Describe how this actually links in to Robinson being a Patsy.
00:28:18Okay, I just described that for you. So I'm not I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. So I'm going to move on from that. But to just go back to your point about this is not evidence. You can't make that claim because you're the entire basis for why you think that there is evidence for Tyler Robinson being the person that took the shot is based off of a hearing under Utah 1102 rules, meaning that they are doing the exact same thing that I am doing. This is the state you said you're here to represent the state. Well, did you watch the preliminary hearing?
00:28:44I didn't say I was here to represent the state.
00:28:46The state's position you think is strong and convincing.
00:28:48No, what I'm here to do is represent my own opinion, which is that based on the evidence
00:29:41So they said there's a medical examiner's explanation of the shooting that's in the back.
00:29:47Rob, if you want to pull it up, and then, Candace, if anybody from your team wants to pull something up, no problem as well, but they're requesting it.
00:29:54If you guys got it, pull it up so we can show it.
00:32:01It means that your entire brand of saying you don't have evidence, you don't have evidence, falls apart when the entire preliminary hearing is based off of hearsay.
00:32:10In fact, Lance's testimony before they had about an hour debate, actually, maybe it was more than an hour debate before he sat, and they said, this is not going to be allowed.
00:32:24Well, I'm the magistrate under Utah Constitution, you know, 1102.
00:32:28It is my job to allow all of this so we can see if the state has enough here that we can then move to a trial, which will then—they would not allow this stuff.
00:32:36They would say we get to cross-examine Lance.
00:36:41To say, I'm going to look at the evidence and I'm going to infer an alternative theory.
00:36:45So you just saw the states and you're accepting it.
00:36:48And they are, they have not presented any concrete facts.
00:36:50You listed on your own Twitter that what you found to be convincing was something that looked like his car pulled into the driveway, a blurry image.
00:46:01But to allow it in that way for him to just be able to also have use immunity, knowing
00:46:06that he's not going to be, he's not going to be in trouble.
00:46:08He could literally get up there and lie about anything, and he's not going to get in trouble because the use immunity was given to him in April, I believe.
00:46:14April 28th is when they gave that testimony to the defense.
00:46:18I think they shot it in, like, April 20th of 2026.
00:46:21That is not compelling to me for somebody who has use immunity to give a testimony and to say, I'm not really sure, but definitely, like, he wears jeans and stuff.
00:51:25I feel like this is Andrew versus Andrew. Somebody asked you a question. What are the points that you find to be the most overwhelming? And you answered.
00:51:32You mean from that day, from that particular day of the hearing that I was responding to?
00:51:38Okay. This is something you have, you find to be more overwhelming?
01:07:06Do we have that on the back to pull it up?
01:07:08I can already tell you what you're talking about the charging documents.
01:07:11Because this is where we had to figure out where this story came from because everyone was operating on the assumption that Matt Robinson turned him in.
01:07:17until we got to the preliminary hearing and we understood, like I said, even for that,
01:07:22when you are charging someone, you can use hearsay. It's all probative, right? Nothing.
01:07:26So they didn't have statements. It's not like Matt Robinson, even though he was interviewed
01:07:30that night. Amber Robinson was interviewed that night by a fed separate rooms. Tyler Robinson
01:07:35was interviewed by a fed. They did not produce statements saying my son did this. My son,
01:07:39I believe my son did this. But what happened was they did interviews. But also the crucial
01:07:44person here who you just brought up is Mike Mitchell. Mike Mitchell is the biggest unknown
01:07:49in this entire case. Everyone keeps saying they heard from Mike Mitchell this, they heard from
01:07:53Mike Mitchell that. So when the person wrote up the report that night, and it was Brian Davis who
01:07:57wrote up what became the charging document after they transported Tyler Robinson from the Washington
01:08:05Sheriff's County office up to, I think it's Salt Lake City, I think it was 4 a.m. in the morning
01:08:10that they got up there he then writes the uh charging what becomes a charging document so
01:08:15he's basically saying we all spoke to a bunch of people and here's the information that we got
01:08:20right we've not seen that so it could have come from mike mitchell mike mitchell could be saying
01:08:25i don't know how this negates the point though why wouldn't the parents because you don't have
01:08:29a statement from the parents you are you are going why wouldn't they just correct the it's
01:08:33not it doesn't negate the point the point is is that we now got the preliminary hearing if the
01:08:39parents were the ones who said I'm turning my son in because he's guilty. I didn't say they
01:08:43turned him in. I think you're talking about the over. You said it's been the narrative. Everybody's0.93
01:08:47known this. The narrative initially, which I think you agree with, was that Matt Robinson
01:08:51knew his kid was guilty and turned him into the police station. What actually happened in terms
01:08:55of Sheriff Brooksby, who was present there and gave a press conference, what happened was this
01:08:59Mike Mitchell character essentially peer pressured him. And we can get a fact check on this. We can
01:09:03find Sheriff Brooksby's press conference. And he said, you know, they they know it's you and you're
01:09:10going to come in peaceably or people are going to be banging down your door. He was a undercover
01:09:16cop, which I don't like that. I don't know what he did undercover. It's very hard to find anything
01:09:20about McMitchell, but he worked with them for 20 plus years, the police officers. The reason why
01:09:25Tyler Robinson knew him was because he lived nearby and he was also his Boy Scout leader.
01:09:28How does this negate that the parents could write this second? And by the way, if you if you had
01:10:40They will actually get the discovery on the messages.
01:10:41Don't you think that would make their case fall apart if it was the case that they weren't able to actually pull the data off the text messages?
01:10:46Do you think the prosecution would go to court with fabricated text messages?
01:15:51So when in the document that they filed yesterday or a couple of days ago, the appropriate,
01:15:57like what you're doing at this stage of the hearing is the state is saying, we have enough
01:16:02evidence that we think this needs to go forth to the trial.
01:16:05Hence the reason that there's this extraordinary, we allow hearsay, because it doesn't really need to be perfect. It can be enough that we feel like we can move forward, right? And okay, I disagree with that in general when somebody's running in prison, but whatever.
01:16:17The next phase is for them to meet in court and for the defense to essentially present an argument to the state that says, we find this filing to be defective in and of itself.
01:16:29We don't even have to defend ourselves because you, the state, have enough.
01:16:33You know what the laws are on the books and this filing is defective and you should get rid of these charges because they don't make sense based on what you can decide based on a law on the books.
01:16:42So that's why they then file the dismissal.
01:20:00The problem has never been whether or not you just said, you know, there's not enough
01:20:04in this case so far until we get to the trial, I remain unconvinced. I'm sure there's tons of
01:20:09people who remain unconvinced yet until we get to the trial. I think that's fine. I think it's fine
01:20:14there's people who are convinced too. That's never been my problem. My problem is the claims which
01:20:19are external to that. Okay. I'm not sure I really care if you have a problem with what I think in
01:20:27my own spare time. I don't understand this lecture that you just gave. But beyond that, what I'm
01:20:32saying is that the state is allowed to use this is what my problem is you guys are not like yeah
01:20:37you guys think while it's still legal you actually you can you are allowed to do that so um but
01:20:42anyway going back going back to you saying i wouldn't have a problem i think i just demonstrated
01:20:47pretty thoroughly that what you claim that you have a problem with is exactly what the state
01:20:52is engaged in at this stage so it doesn't make it just doesn't make sense that's not the case
01:20:56in fact so if people look and they say i'm looking at the gun and i see and i'm inferring this and
01:21:01someone else says, I'm looking at the gun evidence and I'm inferring that, they're both
01:21:05doing the exact same thing. You're just saying, I want to do it for the state. That's propositionally
01:21:09false. I'll explain exactly how. It is the case that every proposition is going to have a true
01:21:17or false conclusion, period. That's just logic, right? It's the law of excluded middle. All
01:21:22propositions are going to be true or they're going to be false. When we get into when we're
01:21:27making inferences. We're making inferences based on propositions. We can make, we can actually come
01:21:32to true conclusions with false premises inside of a proposition. In fact, what we're talking about
01:21:38here is not whether or not you feel that you're convinced by this evidence. That you felt like
01:21:43you were convinced. Right? Sure. But here's the thing. When you ask me my reason, Andrew, why are
01:21:47you convinced by this? I can give you my reasons why I'm convinced by it, why it seems reasonable
01:21:51and rational to me to be convinced. You could even say, but Andrew, I'm just not convinced by it.
01:21:57If that was the limitation of your claims, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
01:22:02That's why I wanted to have the conversation, in fact, was so that we could move into your actual claims that you've made, which transcend the idea of I'm just asking questions.
01:22:13Before we get into that, your team has one thing they want to show before you go into that.
01:22:16So if you want to pull that up, this is the prosecution filing show in defense had full discovery by April 1st.
01:22:27To date, the state's prosecutors have disclosed all evidence that is presently and reasonably available to them as required under Rule 16, Utah are criminal to be more precise as of April 1st.
01:22:39Yeah, that was that was not that was not 100 percent.
01:22:41That's why they're caging that by saying what's reasonable.
01:22:44There was I mean, there was an entire and we can pull this up like we should now play the Kathy Nester clip because that's from there.
01:22:49so and they were basically saying you don't need it at this stage meaning it's reason it's not
01:22:54reasonable that you're asking for this when we're going into a hearing that's just going to be based
01:22:58on hearsay and stuff and things of that nature but of course by the time a trial comes you're
01:23:02going to get all the discovery documents yes so that's what they're saying yeah i understand okay
01:23:06so that's not even and i'm even fine with yeah we all we all know and then by the way just now that
01:23:10the hearing is over and you can also fact check this they now at the at the end of the preliminary
01:23:15hearing dropped like an insane amount of the discovery stuff they gave to them like the week
01:23:20after you guys can give me the exact amount I don't want to say because I don't know my I don't
01:23:25remember how much it was it was an absurd amount of stuff that they gave to them right after the
01:23:28preliminary hearing that they had been asking for because that was one of the things that I kept
01:23:31saying on my show is as we were watching that preliminary of the preliminary why not just give
01:23:36them the stuff now so they can engage in these arguments as I feel like you it's like I want to
01:23:39hear what they have to say about the tech messages I want why can't you just give them what they're
01:23:42asking for so that they can actually engage you. And, uh, it didn't happen. So, but the judge ruled
01:23:48that it wasn't necessary at this stage. And that was the whole point of that, uh,
01:23:53because it's preliminary to the preliminary. Yeah. Would you like to play the Kathy video?
01:23:56Uh, well, he's saying he's not disagreeing, so I don't think we need to.
01:23:59Yeah. There's no disagreement that she said that. So, um, the, yeah. So I guess the disagreements
01:24:06now would move into the evidences that you have stated on the record, which transcend
01:24:12elements of reason why are we having a transcendental conversation now because i mean
01:24:19because they're all related to this your entire thing was about looking at the evidence which
01:24:24never made sense to me again because all of the evidence that you felt to be overwhelming was
01:24:27hearsay that was bizarre to me you told me that i could take as much time as i wanted to question
01:24:31no but i'm just asking you to just lay the groundwork of what you're saying is because
01:24:35you've made many many claims that it trips into something else and i do still want to hold you
01:26:04Nobody's giving a dispute that if all your claims ever were, were just up to now, the evidence that the state's given, I'm just kind of not convinced.
01:26:14What's actually been happening is that you've made tons of claims in regards to this case and in regards to the Kirk assassination, which are far above and beyond, I just doubt, the state's theory.
01:27:28You're telling me this guy drove 13 hours all around.
01:27:31Like, we can definitely show you a picture that it's going to be beyond a reasonable doubt before we even get to the trial.
01:27:36People are going to see and go, oh, crap, like it was really Tyler Robinson.
01:27:39I was expecting to at least see evidence that because I had reported early on that the source was saying that Tyler did not step foot on campus that day.
01:27:50It is my perspective that he had something to do with something.
01:27:52I do believe he was putting like disposing clothes at this stage, at this phase.
01:27:58He was involved somehow. I find Lance to be more suspicious, if I'm being honest with you.
01:28:05And also, like I said, the use immunity that was given to Lance by the feds, the fact that the feds didn't ask him any questions, the fact that I spoke with Lance Twiggs' family, and they were like, it's very weird that the feds are not asking him more questions.
01:28:18He's exactly the person that I would imagine to be involved in some stuff, allegedly, I'll say allegedly. But when we got to the preliminary hearing, there was not a single piece of evidence that I felt was slam dunk. I was waiting for that, a photo. I mean, anything would have made me go, all right, I think this could be the guy.
01:28:36If they had handed over the discovery on the text messages, since that was their big,
01:28:40ta-da, we've got the text messages, that would be the first thing that I would hand over.
01:40:32If your energy here is going to be like, you're my dad and you can tell me how to speak or what I'm supposed to say, you're just going to come up against the wall.
01:41:08Was the foreign legion, do you believe, trying to kill you?0.99
01:41:10So yes, that's why I reported it to the correct officials in government. That's what I was told. And I handed over that information to Tulsi Gabbard's office.
01:41:20What's your best piece of evidence for that?
01:41:25It was told to me by somebody who is high up in the French government. I passed off that information to Tulsi Gabbard's office. I also passed it off to Trump's office, Donald Trump's office. And that's all I can tell you. I wouldn't be able to probe any evidence because I don't have the power to do that.
01:43:07Well, I couldn't say Israel was on the ground and shot and killed Charlie Kirk. I would say that there are various things that we're trying to establish, one being a motive. And since I don't believe that Tyler Robinson and his transfer is a convincing motive because he was fired up about politics, which Lance testified that he never spoke about with him, nor do I believe that he was so into LGBTQ issues.
01:43:32since Lance testified they never spoke about LGBTQ issues that he stopped and ate at Chick-fil-A
01:43:37which if you are into LGBTQ issues wouldn't be your lunch before you go kill Charlie Kirk for0.57
01:43:41LGBTQ issues uh because you know yeah but do you have positive evidence I'm I'm answering the
01:43:47question as I feel like I want to answer it like I said you don't get to for an hour and a half
01:43:50but the question I'm asking is about positive evidence I'm telling you that in any case
01:43:54establishing a motive and what I and again I already explained this at the top of the show
01:43:59But the reason why people find Israel to be an interesting question is because, truthfully, Charlie's perspectives were changing on Israel.
01:44:07And he was starting to realize how much pressure was being put on not just our government to constantly fight their wars, but also being put on his organization personally.
01:44:17If people had come out and been honest about that, rather than rabid claiming he never flinched and everybody's lying and this is not true, you would probably have people that just go, eh, that's life.
01:44:31And then there was the rabid, I mean, not even that.
01:44:33It's like everything was about trying to convince the public how much he liked Israel.
01:44:36So then other than intuition, how you feel about things, do you have any evidence Israel was involved in killing Charlie Kirk?
01:44:42I have already said, and if you're watching my show and the context of what I said, this is the general sense of why people think Israel's involved.
01:44:49We don't, nobody has made the claim that Israelis, there were also, you know, obviously Joe Kent.
01:44:55Well, Joe Kent, who I think would have the right to assert it, noted that there were 12 Israeli cell phones on the ground that day.
01:45:03I think most people would like to probe that.
01:45:05Now, it could be maybe they were students, you know, and they were Israeli students in Utah that day.
01:45:10But we'd like to probe that narrative because what we've seen after coming from the Israeli government, the Israeli prime minister kind of denying that he did it, which wasn't really necessary, was quite busy.
01:45:20The phone call that happened, which no one wants to discuss in the Hamptons the week prior or not the week prior.
01:45:27I think it was around August 5th or 6th that took place.
01:45:31And again, the almost desperate lies about Charlie shifting opinion on Israel lead us to believe that there could be an Israeli angle in this.
01:45:40But we cannot say for certainty that Israel called the shots and this is how it happened.
01:45:45But it is definitively, I think, a thread that a lot of us would like to say.
01:48:33I agree. You're allowed to think. Nobody's disputing whether or not Candace Owens is allowed to think. What I'm asking is if you have positive evidence.
01:48:39But what's your issue then? What is your issue with the statement? I think that Israel is involved. I do.
01:48:45That's not just what you said. You said that it's with full confidence.
01:50:31I'm asking specifically why you think that.
01:50:33I think that when this is all said and done, I've already explained to you, I explained at the beginning of this, why I think Israel is ultimately going to be proven to have involvement in this.
01:50:41I just explained to you in the middle, and now you're wanting me to structure the sentence or provide evidence.
01:50:46You don't have to, you're just allowed to think.
01:50:48And I've explained to you my thought process.
01:50:51I don't need to structure it in a sentence.
01:50:53If you feel like a professor today, you picked the wrong day.
01:50:55Don't you think that like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people would want
01:51:00to know what Candace Owens' positive evidence for why it is that Israel and France were
01:51:05involved in the most traumatic public assassination of Gen Z's lifetime is?
01:53:09And of course, if they wanted to open a file on it, which I thought was quite mysterious that Trump's office never got back to us. It was kind of weird about like, maybe they're not the correct office to. I did receive a response from Tulsi Gabbard's office, but I don't think there was ever any investigation into what I said.
01:53:28So the call was, hey, I've been told somebody—the email.
01:57:04Now, when in terms of any of the hard evidence that's been presented, I think this has been a huge problem that a lot of us have had is that they won't even explore anything else that was going on in Charlie's life personally.
01:57:16So if we're not satisfied that Tyler Robinson did this in any way, then every alternative theory should be explored.
01:57:24Like when people keep saying she has no evidence, it's kind of crazy.
01:57:27I think we've broken like more stories than any news source in the world.
01:57:30I mean, down to pictures, details, police officers, what the dog's name was, because we're not we're not the only people that believe there's a conspiracy here.
01:57:37The police officers that were involved, the many police sheriff's offices that were departments that were involved that day, all believe there was a conspiracy down to the U.S.
01:57:58Well, the thing is, if I said I have sources that claim none of that's true.
01:58:04In fact, my sources claim that her sources are lying.
01:58:07My sources claim that there is none of them believe that there's a conspiracy.
01:58:10My sources claim all of them really think that Tyler Robinson was a lone gunman.
01:58:15If I just said that as hypothetical, wouldn't you say what?
01:58:18Yeah, I think what probably adds weight is like then when I drop photos of the car that no one was supposed to see, people go, OK, her sources are legit.
01:58:25And then when what I say is then proven in court and nobody knew those things, people are recognizing that my sources are legit.
01:58:31When I say Charlie was scared in the last days and then I dropped the text message, which you've just learned about a couple of weeks ago, of him saying he was leaving the pro-Israel cause when everyone was lying about that, then they say, I think Kansas' sources are legit.
01:58:45So I think what's happened is I've actually built up a rapport with my audience that it's not Vibes and Dreams.
01:58:50And that's why they keep watching my content because I, like, for example, when I just the other day released the content of the shooter on the roof doing the lateral crawl, then they're going, I don't think these are just vibes.
01:59:06Yeah, I'm not sure that that would legitimize your sources as being legitimate when it comes to the idea that, oh, they all believe that there's a conspiracy going on, which is actually what your claim is now.
01:59:15How would that actually, hang on, hang on, I'm almost done.
01:59:17How would that legitimize? Well, it's not his debate. How would he how would it legitimize these sources that even if it's the case that you get some court footage or some things like this? Why would it legitimize that your sources are telling you all the marshals believe it's a conspiracy of the police believe it's a conspiracy? Everybody believes it. How would that legitimize?
01:59:37Well, what I am saying to you and you are not you are not forced to believe it. So let me just explain what I was answering here. And I think that you understood what I was saying is I have because people trust me compiled a lot of information and presented it to the public. And this information has been proven true. We've presented photos. We have presented videos never before seen stuff. The public has never seen it. And so what that does is your audience goes, OK, when she says that she has these sources, clearly she's telling the truth.
02:00:06Now, whether you would then go, well, I'm going to believe her when she says they don't believe, they think that there's a conspiracy, that's up to you.
02:16:36And a lot of the actual—so I'm a Christian ethicist.
02:16:39And then you go on to Joe Rogan, and you're like soft explaining away why Erica had to take over Charlie's company when they don't have a parent at home.
02:18:26By the way, I would think it's the most rational, reasonable thing on planet Earth to do if you wanted to actually see an organization change to try to work with leadership or reach out to leadership to try to do so.
02:18:38Doesn't that make the most amount of sense?
02:18:39Well, I would like to state for the record that I think Erica is underqualified to run the organization.
02:18:45And on the more emotional aspects, I agree with what seems to be a majority opinion, because I'm not going to say it's scientific, that any woman that would leave her kids and go right into the office after their husband was publicly assassinated does not have their priority straight.
02:19:04Okay, well, I understand that you can have those criticisms, but I'm not understanding still how that would make her complicit.
02:19:11I don't have to keep answering the same question.
02:19:14your team is asking to play clips so if we want to play this clip to just finish this segment on the
02:19:22erica kirk topic we can spend some time on that as well so if you guys are ready in the back
02:19:26we're ready and causing that 30-06 diameter as would happen with a pet and explosives as we've
02:19:34demonstrated to you in the past it accidentally because of how charlie was crouched went up and
02:19:41hit his neck. And that ruined everything. It ruined everything. It was problematic. It's the
02:19:48reason why Tarell then had to scramble to get the cameras down because they were never supposed to
02:19:54see it. They could have said reasonably that a 30-06 got eaten by Charlie, much more reasonably
02:20:02obviously, than saying that the chicken bones in his neck stopped it because he ate vegetables.
02:23:33Well, for every person that you say looks away, there's going to be a person that was looking forward.
02:23:37We have former Marines that have gotten on and said, it looks to me like there's an explosion under his shirt, right?
02:23:44You obviously saw Rob O'Neill go on to, I'm forgetting which platform it was, where he said, the first thing I thought was-
02:23:54Rob O'Neill is the man that killed Osama Bin Laden.
02:23:56Yeah, and I think he's qualified to say what he believes he saw.
02:23:59We should actually, since they're pulling clips, we should run that clip of Rob O'Neill and what he said and what he observed and his experience.
02:24:08And also there were people who immediately spoke to the media that day who said the same thing, that they thought that something happened under a shirt.
02:24:15That was actually, if you go back to like my first episode when I was just observing what I saw with my eyes, I was asking the serious question.
02:24:21I was seriously saying, why is it like somebody shot him from underneath?
02:27:13Do you think that an explosion generally has smoke?
02:27:16I don't think that there's any quality version of video that would get us to be able to answer
02:27:21that question other than Terrell's 4k footage that he has from the front.
02:27:24So there's a lot of if you look at the Israeli pagers, it's assumed that it's a similar, if not the same type of explosive that was used inside the pagers that would have been used inside of this road, Mike.
02:27:36I think that you should, since you love debating, you should debate someone like John Bray, who's worked on that theory for 11 months and ask those sorts of questions of how a shape charge would work. I presented the evidence of what was in the car. And I also at that episode that you're clipping said John Bray has done an unbelievable amount of work on this. And I think he has debated a ton of people actually regarding this topic. So that's the route that I would send you on.
02:28:00But for the purposes of my show, I do believe, to answer your question, that it is a hypothetical.
02:28:07I mean, that it is a theory that should be thoroughly explored.
02:28:10There's two clips your team wants to show.
02:28:12One of them is the Rob O'Neill clip since we're on it.
02:28:14So if you guys are ready in the back before we go to ad break, if you want to pull it up, this is a good time to do so.
02:43:15Oh, you also said, yeah, it's not as degraded on the rifle.
02:43:19Yeah, because I thought he was one of the things.
02:43:20But I've already, that's what I mean when I say that.
02:43:22Like, it just seems like you're not actually here trying to engage.
02:43:25Because I, even before you got to this, and I knew that you had some secret clip planned,
02:43:29I said to you, when I rewatched the testimony, I realized that they didn't explicitly say Lance Twiggs. They said five other profiles were on it and that his was the most degraded. So I hope your team feels fulfilled in playing that. Is there any more? I'm happy to play every clip that he has on the ready. Anybody?
02:43:48You said you had some new evidence at the beginning of the day that you had something new.
02:43:51Oh yeah, we should show that text message that you read just because I think that's important for the public. You shared it out of context.
02:54:18At this stage, I would say that I don't buy his assertion on the stand that he didn't check to see if anybody went onto the rooftop before he got up there.
02:54:30I do think that it's possible, it's at least plausible that the screwdriver was planted.
02:54:35I don't believe him. What I can say strongly is that his cam died at just the right time. His body cam died at just the right time. I think that as you were just grilling me about whether or not I got the merchant receipt for a debit card, that kind of makes it difficult that we just have to sort of trust that a screwdriver was found and we don't have any should be evidence of a police body cam.
02:55:00but like I said you accept that stuff and then are like did you call the merchant and get like
02:55:05it just seems like you well I'm not adding hold like I said you hold the prosecution to a
02:55:10wait a second to a bit a higher standard than you do two people I'm not adding unconfirmed
02:55:14evidence to an official timeline that I'm putting out either what do you mean an official timeline
02:55:17this is my timeline I made it at home so then it would be official to your show sure yeah okay
02:55:24great so then the your your official timeline Candace Owens official timeline includes a
02:55:28steakhouse stop that has not actually been confirmed at all well yeah it hasn't even been
02:55:33discussed by the prosecution so it's it's not like you're debunking that it happened well there's no
02:55:39there's no evidence for it there's no good evidence for it at all there's no camera there
02:55:43and the steakhouse receipt itself has never been confirmed to be tyler robinson's i'm assuming this
02:55:48is just like a talking point they gave you and you got to like keep pushing this or like i've
02:55:52been following it very closely on edge the receipt you didn't you weren't even following
02:55:56the charges of tyler robinson but you really wanted to know i've been following it very closely
02:55:59wait i'm calling owners of state houses and having a conversation you're following congo
02:56:05i literally followed the entire trial or the preliminary live i was live with an attorney
02:56:10we covered all of it you think because i have a momentary or lapse where i'm like oh it's murder
02:56:15no it's aggravated murder come on you didn't know any of the charges splitting hairs it means you
02:56:20didn't follow the preliminary hearing at all no it doesn't mean that at all any of the charges
02:56:25out or against him when this is like the this is like getting literally to the crux aggravated
02:56:29murder versus murder it's a death sentence and not only that let's point this out uh one of the
02:56:35major things here is that this is your official timeline mine yes who else is good to be who else
02:56:42that would be candace i just don't know what his issue is with my timeline what's your issue with
02:56:47that well so the issue is is that the entirety of the evidence revolves around two people who
02:56:53claim that he was there and supposedly a receipt there's supposedly a receipt where tyler robinson
02:56:59paid for his steak and his soft drink no alcohol right no alcohol right you know nothing about the
02:57:07case but um anyway this particular receipt they could have called the merchant account confirmed
02:57:14it this type of thing to date this receipt has only the blurred information on it that would
02:57:20actually give you the information to confirm whose receipt it is. We have to date, nobody has
02:57:26confirmed that this was actually Tyler Robinson's receipt. And yet inside of Candace Owens' timeline,
02:57:32which she states over and over again, when she says, this is the longest 13 hours,
02:57:38this is 13 and a half hours. The requirement for about what, roughly five and a half or six hours
02:57:44of that is that he went to the steakhouse and so and that's not been confirmed at all not even a
02:57:51little bit i feel like saying that i spoke to the owner of the steakhouse is me like not just being
02:57:56on x looking at opinions but actually doing the legwork um and that's why i like i said if you
02:58:02think this builds up a rapport with your audience and makes you seem like a serious person we don't
02:58:06have to keep belaboring the point here i feel like i've demonstrated that i did as much as i could to
02:58:10confirm this when it came in. I spoke to the owner of the restaurant, you know, obviously took down
02:58:16everything he said, noted that there was, in fact, a receipt that he pulled. That receipt that was
02:58:21published is real. A debit card and a credit card was used. If for some reason somebody misidentified
02:58:29something down the line or we find out it's a different Tyler Robinson, I'm happy to remove
02:58:34it from my timeline. But for right now, I think that there's enough under the Utah 1102 rule for
02:58:39me to keep it there. I don't really think we need to keep going into circles about this receipt.
02:58:42It's my timeline. I don't know why the 1102 rule would apply here for your timeline. Because you
02:58:48constantly cite things that are said in that courtroom that have less evidentiary support
02:58:53than me contacting and speaking with the owner of the restaurant. It's not like I dreamed it,
02:59:00as did you use your expression. So it's in my timeline and I'm going to keep it there if that's
02:59:04sure. You can keep whatever you want there. I'm just saying that there's no evidence he was ever
02:59:07there. Okay. Thank you. No hard evidence anyway. Yeah. We're fine. I'm fine with closing. Okay.
02:59:11So the last thing we're going to do before we go into ad break right after this will be final
02:59:15thoughts. I'll be asking both of you, if anything, if, if anything on your opinion, thoughts changed
02:59:21on the case, uh, and then we'll finish it up from there. So with that being said, a three and a half
02:59:25minute break and it will come back for final thoughts. All right. All right. You guys, if
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03:02:52If you're an Andrew fan and you are still saying, you know what, Andrew's arguments were solid, great, Candice, great, but did anything change your mind?
03:03:03Did you watch and say, you know what, I had this position over here, this would be an interesting commentary to hear.
03:03:08And of course, for all the people that are watching, I was just whispering to them here before we wrap it up.
03:03:13I think whether you're a fan of Andrew or not, whether you're a fan of Candice or not, nobody can dispute the fact that these guys agreed to sit down and talk live.
03:03:24Others were thinking this was pre-recorded.
03:03:26This is not pre-recorded, just so everybody knows.
03:07:33It probably signifies what I've been saying from the beginning, that you didn't feel that you were strong on the actual facts and the evidence, which I was willing to engage with you.
03:07:44I wanted to go over the towel, the things that you've mentioned, and you wanted to then move the conversation into a defense of Erica Kirk and her character.
03:07:52and what I've said about Erica, which is my opinion.
03:07:55And I have not edited that opinion after discussing with you.
03:07:59I would like to extend a compliment to you
03:08:02for being willing to sit down and to have the conversation.
03:08:39and that I wanted this to be a clean debate
03:08:41because I believe I can win this on the merits.
03:08:43And I believe that I did win this fully on the merits
03:08:46by engaging the evidence of what has happened.
03:08:48And I do still believe that there is more evidence which supports that there are more people involved and that Tyler Robinson has been set up and that none of the evidence that was presented was in any way overwhelming, which is why I think you wanted to move to end that discussion quickly and to speak to me about France and to talk about this paying which receipt and my timeline.
03:09:12I want to remind people that a lot of the at-home investigators, which you were open
03:09:19to, as you called them, internet sleuths, I think it was on a show that you did right
03:09:23after Charlie was assassinated that internet sleuths would solve this.
03:09:26This is the reason why Charlie, a year on, is still a conversation every single day trending
03:09:39I think anybody who watches my show or even just watched this debate knows that if I get something wrong, I'll instantly correct it and own it. I'm not arrogant. I don't need to sit here and pretend that I didn't misspeak on the Lance thing. It hasn't been ruled out. But you saw that he just really wanted to hammer that point.
03:09:53you know part of being a well-meaning person is to concede when you are wrong to take something
03:10:00off a timeline when you know it's not right and i would like to think that that is why i have earned
03:10:05the audience that continues to follow me because they know my heart's in the right place that i
03:10:08deeply cared about charlie and i deeply care about the answers i want to thank andrew's team who are
03:10:13providing the fact checks it's a very small room that they're in i want to as always thank my team