Candace Owens - Behind The Scenes Of The Great Debate： TPUSA Is The Biggest Loser. ｜ Ep 376

00:00:00.000 All right, you guys. Happy Monday. I am extra happy this Monday because of the great debate.

00:00:06.440 My oh my. Honestly, you guys, if we're being honest, it was over the minute that Andrew

00:00:11.180 Wilson began reading his quote unquote opening statement from his phone. I was half expecting

00:00:17.180 him to just be like, and this message was brought to you by Turning Point USA. Just

00:00:21.140 terrible. Terrible. I mean, without question, the biggest loser was Erica Kirk, Andrew Colvett,

00:00:27.960 like NEF, the Turning Point USA organization, more broadly speaking, because we seem to be

00:00:33.180 reaching a new depth of their PR disaster. Could it get any worse? I mean, guys, they brought that

00:00:40.360 guy in to train Turning Point USA students how to debate. He's going to teach them the strategy

00:00:48.340 of debate. They actually paid him to teach them. So they went from Charles James Kirk, Charlie,

00:00:56.200 to a chain-smoking debate bro with a very shaky boot.

00:01:03.300 Like I said, they are the biggest losers.

00:01:05.920 I personally think the organization is over.

00:01:08.420 There can't be much coming back from that,

00:01:10.320 who they're now hitching their wagon to.

00:01:13.060 Erica Kirk, the CEO and chairwoman,

00:01:14.960 ruined this organization in under a year,

00:01:17.040 which is incredible.

00:01:18.840 And it's because the queen sent an absolute joker.

00:01:22.240 Welcome back to Candace.

00:01:26.200 Let me just express to you all that I truly feel disrespected.

00:01:42.600 Can I say that?

00:01:43.380 I feel disrespected because there is no organization that knows better than Turning Point USA does

00:01:49.680 that I was trained to debate by Charlie Kirk, cross-country, across too many college campuses,

00:01:56.200 I mean, just hours and hours and hours while we were traveling, note cards, learning how to debate

00:02:01.840 what not to do. And so it's just like, how dare they? You know, how dare they send me Andrew

00:02:08.380 Wilson? Really, this is this is the new person that's coaching the students. This is who you

00:02:14.380 think is going to take me down. Goes into TPUSA headquarters in June, comes out and suddenly he

00:02:20.980 thinks that, I don't know, he's a billionaire dropping my name. Oh, she's too afraid to bait

00:02:26.900 me. Okay. Let me give you guys a little bit of a backstory here. You should just know what

00:02:33.060 happened leading up to this because it just will give you a better sense of what the orientation

00:02:39.180 has become. What we all notice has nothing to do with who Charlie was. And I think understanding

00:02:44.360 the lead up to this moment, lead up to the great debate. Yeah, I really do think that it will help

00:02:49.960 furnish the answer of the strategy that Erica Kirk employs as the new CEO and leader.

00:02:55.300 I am not in any way exaggerating when I say that I have never in my life amongst friend

00:03:02.300 or foe organizations dealt with a more unprofessional team than Andrew's team in my entire career

00:03:10.060 ever anywhere leading up to them arriving at my house.

00:03:13.220 So foremost, just to back it up, you will recall that Andrew Wilson demanded that I

00:03:17.960 publicly negotiate the terms of the agreement on X. He wanted to tweet back and forth. It was

00:03:24.000 excruciating. He wanted to make sure that I couldn't change the terms. I was like, why don't

00:03:28.960 we take Missande email? We could just go back and forth. He's like, no, this must be negotiated

00:03:33.420 publicly, please. So he literally refused to email like a normal human being until we agreed to the

00:03:40.960 debate claim, until we agreed to the format, three and a half hours, minimally, until I

00:03:47.740 accepted that. And that took about a day and a half of nonstop back forth, which to me is quite

00:03:53.260 childish. And we agreed, of course, that he could also bring a video guy because he was paranoid

00:03:58.460 to ensure that there were no surprises, like we were going to do some sort of a gotcha here.

00:04:03.800 Like who was in his ear just telling him that any of this is necessary? I don't know,

00:04:07.440 but I did find out. We also agreed, as you saw publicly, that he could bring his own fact

00:04:11.760 checkers. Essentially, he's coming with a party of four. We agreed that he could pick the moderator,

00:04:15.780 etc etc we basically folded on everything because i just said i just i'm down for this debate

00:04:23.620 and then once it was excruciatingly and publicly negotiated and we are finally able to move to

00:04:30.060 discussions behind the scenes we start an email chain i am provided with no identity as to who i

00:04:38.700 am communicating with we're basically emailing the quote-unquote crucible team i'm like who is

00:04:43.360 this? Who am I speaking with? Why is there no name behind the emails? Even when we, like I said,

00:04:48.880 we asked, who am I speaking to? They're just being shady for no reason. It's like a faceless email

00:04:54.100 chain. We have all of our names on there, so they know exactly who's calling the shots, who's being

00:04:59.900 looped in. We've got nothing. So whoever this anonymous email person or people were, they then

00:05:06.320 declare that they would like a contract and an escrow account for the funds, okay? Not totally

00:05:12.560 off the mark, but it's going to be hard, not exactly easy to find a bank that approves an

00:05:18.880 escrow account, open it, get lawyers involved by Friday. That's what I'm thinking. They then

00:05:22.840 indicate that they're okay if it's my lawyer's account. Okay, fine. I have my lawyer begin

00:05:28.600 drafting a very simple contract, which basically spells out exactly what we've agreed to publicly.

00:05:34.900 And suddenly we receive an email from the Crucible team, the Crucible team,

00:05:39.540 essentially saying, never mind. Joe Rogan has now made an offer to host this discussion down in

00:05:45.680 Texas. So, and I'm quoting this, this changes everything. Let's just blow up the negotiations.

00:05:52.480 Let's blow up everything that we made you painfully agree to publicly because Joe Rogan

00:05:57.040 will reach more people than your platform. Now they're asking me to travel to Texas. They offer

00:06:03.320 be a luxury car to accommodate my pregnancy. And I say no. I say no unless Joe would like to come

00:06:12.680 to Nashville because it does not change everything. It actually changes nothing. And I'm not going to

00:06:18.220 deal. It's already been a painful process. I'm not taking myself through that again, plus pushing

00:06:23.140 the date back and having to be in communication with this team for weeks on end because you're

00:06:29.360 a fan of Joe Rogan. I like Joe Rogan too, but I only had two conditions here, right? Everything

00:06:34.360 else we've conceded to, I said, I don't want to travel. Not because I can't travel pregnant. I do.

00:06:39.000 I can and I do travel pregnant. I just don't want to travel to this ankle biter who's up there

00:06:44.380 saying, I'll do it on your platform. Okay, put your money where your mouth is. The other condition

00:06:48.980 I had was no smoking, no smoking, no traveling. Anyway, they finally let that go and I respectfully

00:06:57.500 declined. And when Joe reached out, he was very nice about it, totally understanding. Andrew

00:07:01.340 then calls PBD and asks him to moderate because Michael Knowles said that he wasn't going to

00:07:07.220 moderate. I immediately said, give me your second, third, fourth option so we can start reaching out

00:07:11.300 to people. Andrew reached out to PBD. And around this time, the quote unquote crucible team

00:07:18.420 begins renegotiating what we've already publicly agreed to, asserting that they want to have a

00:07:24.980 guaranteed 90 minutes to basically sit me through a deposition where he can just go at me and ask

00:07:34.340 me questions. And I have to answer his questions about things that I have said outside of our

00:07:38.120 debate claims. Now, we've already addressed that publicly. And I said, no, I said, I'm happy to

00:07:42.880 answer your questions once we have exhausted our debate claims. But we're not going to have some

00:07:48.940 you sitting down and deposing me. I actually recommended the email. Again, I said, if you

00:07:54.540 want that to happen, you're going to have to pass the bar and join Brigitte McCrone's prosecution

00:07:58.600 team against me. If that's what you're aspiring to do, sit me down for a deposition. You have to

00:08:02.900 become a lawyer and join her team. Okay. And I said, no. And PBD, I'm going crazy here. I'm like,

00:08:10.220 he is the one that agreed to all of this publicly, made me do this publicly, and is now trying to

00:08:14.660 change things. So at that point, since PBD accepted being the moderator, he suggested that everyone

00:08:19.340 and get on a FaceTime call to work through these details. So we have basically an emergency

00:08:24.220 FaceTime call on Tuesday evening and I explain a detail. Suddenly he's acting differently. I think

00:08:32.840 just having the presence of me now looping in PBD on these emails, he's like, oh yeah, no, it's fine.

00:08:39.160 I don't need to ask her questions or do anything like that or add that to the contract. I just

00:08:45.120 want to make sure that there will be time for me to address, generally speaking, some of her

00:08:50.220 conspiracies. And I said over and over again, I don't mind answering your questions. We're going

00:08:53.580 to be dialoguing. You're not sitting me down and questioning me. And I want to make sure we at

00:08:58.400 first and foremost address the case. That's what people are here to listen to. And I explain in

00:09:06.320 detail on this call, and PBD has two members from his team on the call as well, Tom as well as his

00:09:13.200 executive assistant. I explain in detail thoroughly that my house is very small. I

00:09:17.500 explained to him why we are not allowing them to film anywhere. But inside of this exact studio,

00:09:24.160 my kids live here. They homeschool here. And this is something that you just have to respect. But I

00:09:29.600 understand you're paranoid. We have a very small, small, formerly HVAC closet control room. But we

00:09:37.280 will create a spot to address your paranoia for your team. They will be able to listen. They'll

00:09:42.840 be able to hear everything. And so that you know that there's no funny business going on and you're

00:09:47.180 welcome to basically record within the studio so that in the event that we try to trick you or do

00:09:53.080 something, you will have captured it. And he's fine with that. We get out the phone. Everything

00:09:57.220 is done. Contract gets officially signed on Thursday. Okay, what could possibly go wrong,

00:10:02.960 you're thinking, right? Because tomorrow is Friday. Well, sometime on Thursday, my producer

00:10:07.600 is like, it's kind of weird that we don't have a point of contact. We are still dealing with a

00:10:13.180 faceless team. No one has reached out to ask for our address. We also need the names because we

00:10:18.200 have security and we need to know who they're bringing. So the faceless people have to become

00:10:21.980 real people. And we end up asking PBD's team to provide us a number for Andrew Wilson. We get a

00:10:28.200 number and it's Andrew's number. And he says, reach out to this number, which seemingly belongs to no

00:10:36.400 one. They will not identify themselves. So my producer is now texting an anonymous somebody.

00:10:43.260 We try to run the number to figure out who we're speaking to. It appears to be a burner phone.

00:10:48.280 The person just, they're just, I guess they want to surprise us with who they're bringing to the

00:10:52.300 house. I can't even imagine this. I can't even imagine this scenario where someone has expressed

00:10:56.200 to you, my children live here, they sleep here. This is our personal home. Like we are going to,

00:11:01.000 you know, have a studio outside of this in the near future. But for now, this is what we have.

00:11:06.460 Now, over the course of this conversation

00:11:07.940 with this faceless individual,

00:11:10.320 the person immediately begins getting rude

00:11:12.520 with my producer and insisting,

00:11:15.060 again, this is on Thursday,

00:11:16.880 this is the night before,

00:11:18.620 that they're going to need a desk.

00:11:20.160 They're going to need a place to set up

00:11:21.380 Andrew's live stream, excuse me.

00:11:24.840 They're saying they're now going to need an HDMI cable

00:11:27.080 that's going to run out of our studio

00:11:29.320 into the control room

00:11:30.580 so they can set up a computer

00:11:31.920 into a camera and live stream.

00:11:35.620 They need access to power, they say.

00:11:39.420 They, being the anonymous people,

00:11:41.500 I don't know who we're speaking to.

00:11:43.040 And I almost lost it.

00:11:44.200 I just went, like, this is absurd.

00:11:47.600 They still will not answer who they are bringing.

00:11:50.520 And I said, we have never agreed

00:11:52.140 to allow them to set up a live stream in our home,

00:11:55.140 to write a desk, an HDMI.

00:11:56.140 What are we even talking about?

00:11:57.460 And the person replies that they thought it was implied

00:12:00.400 because our contract says the debate will be live streamed.

00:12:05.620 yeah, the debate is going to be live-streamed

00:12:08.300 like my show is live-streamed every day

00:12:10.220 because you thought we were going to trick you

00:12:11.920 and put it behind a paywall.

00:12:13.620 Why would you think that implies

00:12:14.760 that you can set up a mini studio in my home

00:12:16.680 after I've gone through such pains

00:12:18.660 to express to both you and PBD's team

00:12:20.880 how small the space is

00:12:23.020 and how we don't have any room?

00:12:25.220 I kid you not, okay?

00:12:27.480 So when did this anonymous team

00:12:30.480 decide to email us

00:12:32.360 rather than trying to, you know,

00:12:34.340 force my producer to just accommodate them.

00:12:37.500 When were they going to email us about this assumption?

00:12:39.540 9.15 p.m. the night before.

00:12:42.100 9.15 p.m. the night before the debate

00:12:43.880 with a follow-up email sent at 11.15 p.m.

00:12:47.800 And still, at no point will they identify

00:12:50.320 who the four people are,

00:12:51.780 despite the fact that we asked multiple times

00:12:53.300 in email and via text,

00:12:56.240 who are you bringing into my home

00:12:58.060 where my children lie their head?

00:13:00.480 So it's now debate day.

00:13:01.580 We still get no answers, no identity

00:13:03.400 of who they're bringing.

00:13:04.420 They want to surprise us.

00:13:05.240 That's very apparent.

00:13:06.820 And I just want to say,

00:13:08.140 I cannot comprehend how degenerate and disrespectful

00:13:10.400 you have to be to do that.

00:13:12.860 I just, I would never do that to anybody,

00:13:14.520 no matter how I felt about them.

00:13:15.880 So we just made sure

00:13:17.080 that they were not welcomed through the front door.

00:13:18.560 We normally just welcome everybody to the front door

00:13:20.140 and said they had to go through the back,

00:13:22.120 through the basement door,

00:13:23.080 because why would I allow anyone

00:13:24.780 to be so unnecessarily disrespectful?

00:13:27.500 And then we figure out why.

00:13:29.260 And then it starts to make sense

00:13:30.340 because he shows up with Steven Crowder's team.

00:13:34.580 Steven Crowder's producer, CEO,

00:13:36.960 regular on-air talent feature

00:13:39.480 who spends all day mean tweeting me.

00:13:41.760 He's actually like the CEO of whatever it is

00:13:43.860 Steven Crowder thinks he does anymore.

00:13:45.700 If you don't know who Steven Crowder is,

00:13:47.220 he's basically a child actor

00:13:48.620 who never stopped being a child actor.

00:13:50.820 He's a 40-year-old man,

00:13:51.780 and he just likes to prank people.

00:13:53.440 And this is exactly his brand

00:13:54.940 of just doing something this disrespectful for no reason.

00:13:58.440 and I mean when I say disrespectful and I'm not even like Gerald Morgan is who we brought

00:14:05.320 is who we brought with him um I didn't he was not rude to me but could you imagine okay um

00:14:15.320 that despite me detailing why we wanted no filming outside of this studio and saying you

00:14:21.600 can film in the studio. Gerald decided to do a live call in from my kid's playroom just outside

00:14:29.700 the studio. It was one of the reasons we said no smoking. We made it clear to them my children's

00:14:32.400 playroom, which is the garage area, is just outside and you can't smoke cigarettes. All of

00:14:37.620 this was made clear. This was their big plan is to get views for Steven and to disrespect me.

00:14:43.400 You can go back. And so I still am just amazed that this is something that like grown men would

00:14:51.380 be plotting and planning for clicks and views. It's so disgusting. But at the very least,

00:14:57.720 it allowed me to understand why there was so much paranoia, why there was all this weird

00:15:00.960 communication, all this unnecessary scheming, because that's his brand. That is literally

00:15:05.080 his brand. He's just not an honest dealer. He's a part of that bizarre group of middle-aged men

00:15:09.480 who are fixated with me. I just never have been interested in Steven Crowder. Genuinely,

00:15:14.240 I don't follow his stuff. I've never been on his show. That brand of never growing up and thinking

00:15:19.840 that it's funny to be to do like pranks. It's not it's grow up, you know, his brand sort of crashed

00:15:25.860 and burned when he was caught on a doorbell cam berating his eight month pregnant now ex-wife

00:15:33.040 when she was pregnant with twins. And he never really recovered from that. And so I guess the

00:15:37.400 way that he thought he would recover is by plotting against another very pregnant person

00:15:41.240 to sort of like break into her house in a weird way. And like so you could have inside scoop on

00:15:47.020 a debate rather than just maturely emailing and saying, like, why would you sneak into someone's

00:15:51.060 house? It still boggles the mind. Why would you try to sneak into someone's house because you

00:15:57.780 want clicks and views because you don't have the manhood or the decency to say, hey, look,

00:16:03.260 you said I could bring four people and I'm going to bring someone that you don't like and someone

00:16:07.340 who's been nasty to you online, but that's my prerogative. I would have said, yeah, you're right.

00:16:12.660 It's your prerogative. Could you just make sure this person doesn't, you know, film here,

00:16:16.760 whatever they did not do that and it was actually in complete violation to what we agreed to because

00:16:22.120 one thing the contract did stipulate was no filming outside of this studio um anyway i kept

00:16:30.260 professional we were kind to everyone because if nothing else it did give me the confidence to know

00:16:34.200 that andrew was surrounding himself and taking advice from very unserious people who like to

00:16:38.300 play pranks essentially and i think that we saw the fruits of that during the debate immediately

00:16:42.900 that that was their plan to sort of play tricks to win.

00:16:47.220 And I do want to say, just to be super fair here,

00:16:49.700 the team particularly he had in the control room,

00:16:54.940 Rob, he was very kind, very professional.

00:16:57.380 Even Gerald, he was kind and professional to my face,

00:17:00.100 but just what you're doing,

00:17:02.040 the exercise of what you're doing here

00:17:03.480 is just a level of disrespect

00:17:07.500 that I don't think I've ever dealt with.

00:17:09.220 And if it wasn't for me knowingly moving out of this house,

00:17:12.900 in a couple of weeks or so, I probably would not want these kinds of people to know where I live

00:17:20.140 because you just don't have respect for children. Now, regarding the debates, I do want to say this.

00:17:24.700 By the time Andrew Wilson whipped out his phone and read that opening statement, it was clear to

00:17:28.780 me that he was going to lose. As soon as he said the much trafficked quotation of you're going off

00:17:36.420 vibes and dreams and no evidence, I knew that he was completely unfamiliar with my content.

00:17:42.180 Like he just decided to go to Turning Point and say, I'll do this and I'll be macho and had done no research. And I also had this micro win because earlier, you remember, I had said that one of the terms that I wanted that I ended up conceding was I wanted Turning Point to claim their horse.

00:18:03.000 I wanted them to say that this is our guy, and he said he didn't want that done. We all knew that he was being sent by Erica and company, but he refused that term and said he had nothing to do with them, and then in the first three minutes of the debate, he makes it perfectly clear that Turning Point USA is backing him with this totally awkward, I have a never-before-seen message wherein he just kind of makes Erica Kirk look like a big, fat liar.

00:18:33.000 Take a listen.

00:18:34.540 I hold in my possession, never-before-seen messages from Charlie Kirk to his security team on September 9th, 2025.

00:18:41.160 I'm going to share the message with you today, which is the first time this information has ever been publicly revealed.

00:18:47.560 On September 9th, Charlie's security team wrote to him,

00:18:50.140 Yes, law enforcement has been fully supportive and agreed to a security plan and posture.

00:18:56.420 Tomorrow's event will be covered by both my team and the campus PD.

00:18:59.740 If additional support is required, patrol units will be available.

00:19:02.520 I have 11 on site. Charlie responded with this. Okay, great. Remind them that they are there for

00:19:09.600 one person's security only because I'm somewhat worried the left is trying to kill me. That was

00:19:17.720 a message sent September 9th. We knew that there was always going to be a threat, but Charlie and

00:19:25.440 I always, we promised each other we would never live in fear. And he would say, if they're going

00:19:29.880 to get me, they're going to get me. But he was not messaging people the day before saying,

00:19:36.140 I'm going to be murdered. They're coming after me. Someone's going to kill me.

00:19:40.960 He didn't say that. And I had his cell phone.

00:19:46.960 So for those of you who watch this show, that was the original Turning Point USA sin. That was the

00:19:52.680 first episode that I did going after Erica. And I explained to people that she was lying.

00:19:57.380 I said, she's lying.

00:19:58.860 There's no way that I know that this text message exists

00:20:02.360 and that this text message was sent from Dan Flood

00:20:05.620 and she doesn't.

00:20:08.240 This is in December.

00:20:09.020 This is in December that she's joining Glenn Beck,

00:20:11.020 mid-December that she is joining Glenn Beck

00:20:12.940 and asserting that she has his phone.

00:20:15.720 And then Turning Point tried to claim,

00:20:18.100 which we met days after,

00:20:19.300 because that's when I went, this is weird.

00:20:21.860 Days after that is when Erica then came to Nashville

00:20:25.260 and we had this summit.

00:20:26.440 And what she told me, which how Andrew is making a very, very bad mistake here, she said, well, it was on signal and the team's messages auto delete on signal.

00:20:40.760 And she didn't know. So I guess Dan Flood didn't tell her.

00:20:44.180 I guess Andrew Colvat, who was giving messages that he thought was relevant to the police, didn't think to give them a message that said the left is going to kill me.

00:20:51.580 But particularly when we sat down, she was like, have you seen the message?

00:20:55.860 And I said, no.

00:20:58.060 And she said, oh, it said the left.

00:21:00.200 And it was on Signal.

00:21:01.840 And I told you guys that was a double lie.

00:21:04.440 She lied again.

00:21:05.700 The message was actually sent an iMessage.

00:21:07.800 Well, Andrew says he's going to be dropping this message

00:21:09.520 because he actually didn't want to show the message for some reason.

00:21:12.980 He wanted this big sort of weird opening where people are going to go,

00:21:16.500 oh, and everyone just thought it was really strange.

00:21:20.420 The really strange for Turning Point USA to not have presented that message,

00:21:24.660 which actually if they really had a message that said this their entire narrative has been the

00:21:31.820 left killed charlie kirk why wouldn't you share that it seems weird why didn't you share that

00:21:35.560 with authorities when you were sharing messages and andrew we're supposed to believe you didn't

00:21:39.780 tell her for four months but you told me in september and erica went on glenn back to debunk

00:21:44.700 me and say i was a liar and now it's just looking real bad for turning point usa so fingers crossed

00:21:52.840 guys, because I always have a surprise. Fingers crossed that Andrew, who has promised that he's

00:21:58.680 going to release this on his show because he's got evidence, actually does release that message,

00:22:04.300 which is supposed to be on Signal, but I know for a fact is on iMessage. So yeah. Anyway, moving on,

00:22:11.600 as soon as the actual debate begins, I sort of declined to do an opening statement because it

00:22:15.680 was just weird that he did that. It had nothing to do with the debate claims, of course. It was

00:22:18.920 just taking cheap shots at Candace,

00:22:22.000 the first thing he does is he concedes

00:22:24.560 that there's reasonable doubt

00:22:25.820 that Tyler Robinson did this.

00:22:27.640 PBD asks us explicitly,

00:22:29.600 what percentage do you put this at?

00:22:31.700 And here is what Andrew Wilson says.

00:22:35.400 Just out of curiosity,

00:22:36.820 are you between 0 to 100?

00:22:38.520 What is the likelihood that you think

00:22:40.300 Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk and killed him?

00:22:42.920 Based on the evidence right now,

00:22:44.660 I don't know, I'd say 75, 85%.

00:22:48.920 okay, I win the debate. So I guess the evidence is not so overwhelming. We went from overwhelming

00:22:56.300 to 75%. That's reasonable doubt. Let this man off. What? What are we even talking about? Who

00:23:02.380 has ever been like, yeah, 75% was overwhelming. Hey, how would you rank that restaurant? Like

00:23:09.220 75%. I was overwhelmed with how delicious the food was. And I put it at 75%. What are we talking

00:23:16.620 about? Why are we here? And I realized that he didn't really know why he was here. He didn't

00:23:22.220 have any sort of a debate strategy other than to lie with confidence. It was just amazing to me

00:23:29.180 how many times this man thought that he could just lie not only about things that were happening in

00:23:34.860 the case, but also about what was happening currently in the room during the debate. Like

00:23:39.640 we're sitting here and he just was like, I'm a wizard. I'm a wizard. I have magic. I have a

00:23:45.100 magic wand. And I can just convince audiences that they didn't or did just hear something

00:23:49.040 that happened five seconds ago. It was bonkers. I mean, the amount of people that were like,

00:23:54.340 this is a strong sign of somebody with narcissistic personality disorder to confidently

00:23:59.800 lie and try to gaslight you. Take a listen to just two times he did this.

00:24:04.120 You wrote the car pulling in. That's a totally blurry image. Robinson getting out of it. You

00:24:09.980 have no idea if that's Tyler Robinson. The fact that he is seen four other times on camera

00:24:14.820 the fact being just a standard white boy with brown hair was seen getting walking up staircase

00:24:19.820 the dna on the roof we should discuss that and on the screwdriver that he left behind

00:24:25.420 it's overwhelming man yeah but that's not an exhaustive list just so we're clear you did

00:24:30.360 tweet it but it's not an exhaustive you said i only said this one thing and said that that

00:24:36.140 was overwhelming actually that's not what i said it is you could even pull your own clip

00:24:40.500 that? Can you, can you fact check if that was said or not? I did not hear her say this.

00:24:47.840 You listed on your own Twitter that what you found to be convincing was something that looked

00:24:53.380 like his car pulled into the driveway, a blurry image. No, I didn't. The standard white guy coming

00:24:57.700 up the steps that could literally be anyone. This never happened. For you though, to say that

00:25:01.980 anybody's a girl boss, right? That's like the pot calling the kettle black. That came out of your

00:25:06.500 mouth. No, that was you. You brought up girl boss. Girl boss came out of your mouth.

00:25:13.980 It's a bizarre criticism. Like nobody's in the bigger girl boss position than you.

00:25:18.580 I'm actually, no. You're in the biggest of the girl boss positions. Like you don't have to do

00:25:23.140 this. You just do do this. You could definitely not do it at all and be fine. He literally came

00:25:30.480 out of his mouth. I never said girl boss. I was just answering and asking him to explain away

00:25:34.860 how he shifted his position. Now he suddenly supports Erica being a CEO. And then he

00:25:40.480 started bringing up a girl boss. And he did this so many times. It was stunning. And people were

00:25:44.540 just going, why? Maybe he has amnesia. Maybe it's not a strategy and he has amnesia. But to just

00:25:50.220 assert something with such confidence and to keep lying over and over again was just shocking to me.

00:25:55.680 We were probably less than an hour into it when I realized, by the way, that he was not okay

00:26:00.400 because I wanted to address that,

00:26:02.320 this bizarre strategy of public gaslighting.

00:26:05.280 And he, again, wrongly, but ever confidently,

00:26:10.420 filled in the wrong blank when I said,

00:26:12.160 are you, and this actually ended up

00:26:14.900 being one of my favorite moments.

00:26:16.620 Take a listen.

00:26:18.100 You didn't mention that I mentioned the screwdriver,

00:26:20.240 DNA, all these other things.

00:26:22.060 You never mentioned any of that.

00:26:23.960 So no, you're actually incorrect there.

00:26:26.280 But on top of that,

00:26:27.340 moving over to the actual evidence itself.

00:26:29.140 Are you? Yes, I'm OK. Anyway, back to the evidence. You're OK. Yes, I'm glad you're asserting that you're OK. I wasn't worried about your health.

00:26:37.740 I really don't think by that time he was OK. It was already apparent to me that he was kind of coming apart and he didn't really have an argument.

00:26:44.620 And it was very obvious that he did not watch the preliminary hearing or any hearing for that matter.

00:26:51.340 This is why he could not comprehend the contradiction of him claiming and calling people conspiracy theorists.

00:26:58.740 You're a conspiracy theorist, and it's because of the way that you're looking at evidence.

00:27:04.400 You're making inferences off of that evidence.

00:27:07.300 That's his whole thing.

00:27:08.960 He couldn't comprehend the hypocrisy of that, when in fact he was doing the exact same thing.

00:27:13.520 If all of his evidence was being derived, which he felt was overwhelming, was being derived from a hearing,

00:27:19.060 wherein the prosecution was doing just that,

00:27:22.580 looking at evidence and interpreting it

00:27:24.760 however they wanted,

00:27:25.480 a blurry image of a white man with brown hair.

00:27:27.620 I think that's Tyler Robinson.

00:27:30.820 Okay, I think that's not Tyler Robinson.

00:27:34.080 He calls one a fact

00:27:35.160 and the other one a conspiracy theory.

00:27:37.360 This was the whole point of a hearsay,

00:27:39.620 of the hearsay Utah 1102.

00:27:41.820 And if he had watched how many times

00:27:43.480 they discussed this 1102 rule,

00:27:45.140 it was basically like,

00:27:46.340 yeah, we allow this at this stage, it's probative.

00:27:48.140 he would have understood why I was pointing out this hypocrisy, but he quite literally could not

00:27:53.740 quite grasp that concept in a way that was frustrating for me. And so much that I had to

00:27:57.600 tell him, I can, I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you. Right. We all have

00:28:01.940 our professional limitations. This is one of mine. I cannot, it's like being in a class and you just

00:28:06.940 have that one student that's not grasping something that seems to the rest of us to be a

00:28:10.480 really easy concept that he's going, I don't understand. Why do you keep saying it's here?

00:28:13.760 what is 1102? What is this? What does it matter? Because this grants us all the ability,

00:28:19.940 whether inside or out of the courtroom, to look at evidence and then to infer upon that evidence.

00:28:24.720 In fact, that's what people are doing in any court case, actually. Both sides are doing that.

00:28:30.800 They're in dispute. One side is saying, I infer this. One side is saying, I infer the opposite,

00:28:36.380 and here is the evidence. And the jury makes a decision. Anyway, it was very clear to me that

00:28:43.520 because he was weak on the case and didn't know anything, he wanted out of debating the evidence

00:28:47.520 altogether. He didn't want to talk about the degraded prince who says, so what? So what?

00:28:51.620 What do you mean, so what? I'm trying to tell you why there is just as much evidence here,

00:28:57.260 the evidence that you say is enough to say that he did it, to say that he was set up as a patsy.

00:29:02.120 I'm trying to prove my claim, but he said, nope, let's go to a new phase.

00:29:05.720 And it was, the next phase was very reminiscent to me of when you learn a new vocab word and you

00:29:13.200 just want to use it. It was like a term he had just learned yesterday or something. And that

00:29:18.180 term was positive evidence. He just thought that if I keep saying it, people at home will think

00:29:22.280 I'm really smart and intellectual. And frankly, it just came across as bizarre. This is just a

00:29:29.400 little bit of him saying positive evidence. Let's talk about the foreign legion.

00:29:35.240 Sure. Was the foreign legion, do you believe, trying to kill you?

00:29:37.840 So yes, that's why I reported it to the correct officials in government.

00:29:42.640 That's what I was told, and I handed over that information to Tulsi Gabbard's office.

00:29:47.160 What's your best piece of evidence for that?

00:29:49.420 Well, it was—

00:29:50.820 Positive evidence.

00:29:52.020 This would be at a professional limitation for me to then go and probe that information that I handed over.

00:29:57.540 I can't do that.

00:29:58.300 I'm not the United States government.

00:29:58.520 But you don't have any positive evidence of that, right?

00:30:00.760 I don't—can you just stop?

00:30:02.100 It's actually just, like, annoying to hear you keep saying positive evidence.

00:30:04.820 Do you have any positive evidence whatsoever that Israel killed Charlie Kirk?

00:30:08.800 That he stopped and ate at Chick-fil-A, which if you are into LGBTQ issues,

00:30:12.500 wouldn't be your lunch before you go kill Charlie Kirk for LGBTQ issues because, you know.

00:30:18.020 But do you have positive evidence?

00:30:19.240 And we cannot say for certainty that Israel called the shots and this is how it happened.

00:30:24.740 But it is definitively, I think, a thread that a lot of us would like to see.

00:30:27.460 Do you say there's no positive evidence?

00:30:29.160 Don't you think that like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people

00:30:32.820 would want to know what Candace Owens' positive evidence for why it is that Israel and France

00:30:38.420 were involved in the most traumatic public assassination of Gen Z's lifetime is? She had

00:30:44.000 no positive evidence Israel's involved in anything. No positive evidence that France is involved in

00:30:51.460 anything. No positive evidence TPUSA is involved in anything. No positive evidence that Erica Kirk

00:30:58.100 is involved in anything? Genuinely, it was maddening. Just stop saying that term. You do

00:31:07.700 not sound smart. You don't need positive evidence for your opinions. You just don't. You're like,

00:31:12.800 hey, I think chicken sandwiches are better than cheeseburgers. Well, what's your positive

00:31:18.060 evidence? I just think that. Well, you have to have positive evidence. How would I have to have

00:31:23.660 positive evidence for me receiving a threat and me taking it to the authorities? Because you

00:31:28.040 imagine if the world works like that like you receive a threat and and someone's like hey you

00:31:33.900 should know if this person is plotting to kill you and you go to the police station and you're like

00:31:37.240 here here's here's the person who told me this he's gonna kill me and the police are like well

00:31:42.320 what's your positive evidence my positive evidence i'm reporting the threat officer i like i don't

00:31:47.000 know how i want you to do your job now and go figure out if this is viable they're telling

00:31:51.940 this well what's your positive evidence my positive evidence is me coming to you with the

00:31:57.360 evidence that I have and expecting you to investigate it because that's your duty.

00:32:01.900 I mean, that limitation, it was really funny. I saw a meme, I think we're going to actually

00:32:05.240 show it later, of people just being like, does he think that if you think the FBI is

00:32:09.940 involved and you think that they planned this assassination, that the government's going

00:32:13.320 to help you find the positive evidence for this stuff? Like, well, JFK, I guess it was

00:32:19.080 all above board because you have to have positive evidence and only the CIA can give you that

00:32:23.780 positive evidence and they've blacked out the documents. So you just can't you can't speculate

00:32:28.180 about it. I mean, it's just bonkers. And yeah, I'm allowed to think what I think about Erica

00:32:32.960 Kirk. I think she's suspicious. And then I remind him I flip the script and I say, well,

00:32:37.300 what's your positive evidence for you having asserted as he did before he went to Turning

00:32:42.320 Point USA headquarters in May? He tweeted that he thinks that Erica Kirk is too retarded to kill

00:32:48.040 her husband. So I'm like, well, what's your positive evidence for that? Are you allowed to

00:32:51.640 just have opinions. And then he's like, oh, I'm allowed to have opinions. And he says he thinks

00:32:54.980 that all women are retards. And sure, if you're sitting across from a woman that you're paying

00:33:01.220 $100,000 an hour to speak to, I don't think anyone's walking away thinking that women are

00:33:07.500 dumb in this situation. That's my opinion. I have no positive evidence, but I think most people

00:33:13.280 walked away and thought you were the idiot. Anyway, next, he did what he was obviously

00:33:20.260 censored you. And you can just see his whole posture is changing. He's not feeling confident.

00:33:23.480 He realizes he just said the words, positive evidence, too many times. Nobody cares. No one

00:33:28.180 thinks you're brilliant. And it's quite annoying. And then it moves to this phase where it's very

00:33:33.700 obvious to me that he is trying to entrap me in a lawsuit by getting me to complete sentences in a

00:33:38.940 way that would fall into legal defamation, right? He's asking me and he's surprising me. And this

00:33:44.800 is very Steven Crowder coded. Like to have clips, just to you guys in the background, we told them,

00:33:49.820 If you want to send us clips ahead of time, and as you saw, we had no clips planned.

00:33:53.520 We just said, we just want fact checkers in there because we may arrive at certain points

00:33:57.240 where we dispute what we're saying.

00:33:59.300 And rather than going back and forth with like, yes, they did say this, or yes, she

00:34:02.240 did, or Kathy Nasser did, we can just ask them to do a quick fact check.

00:34:05.920 And because there's a lot of information going on in this case, and sometimes you just genuinely

00:34:09.060 forget things, as I did, genuinely.

00:34:11.860 I didn't accuse them of lying.

00:34:12.780 I said, I don't remember the text about the surveillance thing.

00:34:16.080 Can we get a fact check on that?

00:34:17.220 And we did.

00:34:17.700 That was the purpose of having fact checkers.

00:34:20.060 Never did I imagine, of course, because he didn't share who his team was, or I maybe

00:34:23.400 would have considered it, that he was what he really spent his time doing while I was

00:34:27.260 prepping for the debate.

00:34:28.080 He was prepping to try to do some gotcha clips and to come in as Erica Kirk's lawyer.

00:34:34.180 You know, I'm not with Turning Point USA, but if I got to get you on record with defaming

00:34:41.060 Turning Point USA.

00:34:42.220 And he did this in a way that could not have been more obvious of trying to sort of trick

00:34:47.440 me into a lawsuit. Take a listen. Do you have any evidence that Erica Kirk or TPUSA participated in

00:34:55.160 the murder of Charlie Kirk? I've never said they participated in the murder of Charlie Kirk. So how

00:34:58.980 could I say that I have evidence they participated in the murder of Charlie Kirk? Okay. So then you

00:35:03.760 don't believe that they did. I never have said that statement. So I'm not going to get you to

00:35:09.040 ask me personal questions about things that I've never said on record. Okay. That officer,

00:35:13.360 the first officer that was up on the roof.

00:35:15.640 Do you remember his name?

00:35:16.940 Officer Bagley.

00:35:17.680 Yeah, what was his first name?

00:35:18.820 Christopher.

00:35:19.600 Christopher.

00:35:21.280 When Christopher got up on the roof,

00:35:23.560 you talk a lot about how his camera died.

00:35:26.420 Well, he talked a lot about that

00:35:27.440 during the preliminary hearing.

00:35:27.880 Yeah, about his camera died.

00:35:28.740 Yeah.

00:35:29.320 Do you think that he planted that screwdriver up there?

00:35:31.800 No.

00:35:32.520 No?

00:35:33.280 Who do you think planted it?

00:35:34.800 I, if we're just going on my opinion,

00:35:37.000 am I allowed to have an opinion?

00:35:38.080 Of course.

00:35:38.620 At this stage,

00:35:39.780 I would say that I, I don't buy his, um, assertion on the stand that he didn't check to see if

00:35:45.340 anybody went onto the rooftop before, um, he got up there. I, I do think that it's possible. It's

00:35:53.600 at least plausible that the, the, uh, screwdriver was planted. I don't believe him. What I can say

00:35:57.800 strongly is that his, uh, cam died at just the right time. His body cam died at just the right

00:36:04.540 time. I think that as you were just grilling me about whether or not I had got the merchant

00:36:10.460 receipt for a debit card, that kind of makes difficult that we just have to sort of trust

00:36:15.260 that a screwdriver was found and we don't have any should be evidence of a police body cam.

00:36:21.600 That right there is why it is impossible for me to think that Erica Kirk is not complicit somehow.

00:36:27.740 Because what? Those two thoughts actually don't even follow. How would it be the case that even

00:36:33.640 if Erica Kirk did believe that Tyler Robinson was 100% responsible for the death of Charlie Kirk,

00:36:40.080 let's just say she believed it with every fiber of her being, believed all the evidence because

00:36:43.660 she did. She just actually did. Would it then follow that somehow she's complicit in his death?

00:36:51.300 I didn't say complicit in death. You added those two words.

00:36:55.280 Okay. It's what's she complicit in?

00:36:56.780 Yes. Look at his face. You could just see it. You could just see the dishonesty there.

00:37:03.640 right? So what she complicit, it's like that sentence was so planned. That was so planned,

00:37:10.460 complicit in his death. That's not what we were discussing. We were talking about the fact,

00:37:15.320 Erica, I forgive him, implies that Tyler Robinson is guilty. Tyler Robinson is up for the death

00:37:19.560 sentence. And when you are someone who is going around signaling to the public that this person

00:37:24.180 did it, and we assume that you have more evidence, you've seen something, which was the broad

00:37:29.900 assumption, as I explained, and it comes to find out that you had nothing different than the public

00:37:34.040 had, people are going to go, this feels wrong. This feels like wrongdoing. You're potentially

00:37:39.360 getting a jury, what could be a jury, to believe that this is the person who committed murder,

00:37:46.100 and the consequence he will face is death. So I could just see that move there. That was so

00:37:52.560 daily wire-coded, I would say. They love lawsuits. They love legal entrapments. That's what that felt

00:37:57.760 like to me. And I could sense it from a mile away. And then I could sense that he was growing

00:38:01.120 frustrated that I would not take the bait. I'm smarter than that. And I then called him out for

00:38:06.520 having played three Erica clips like in a row. You're sitting here saying you're not here on

00:38:11.220 behalf of Turning Point USA, but you start with an opening text that only Turning Point USA could

00:38:16.660 have given you that they have not given to the public. And now you're playing three clips in

00:38:20.480 defense of her. Yeah, that then led to because he started getting agitated that I didn't take the

00:38:26.340 So he's like failed on one. He's failed on two. That then led to the Internet's most awkward silence where he just says, I'm not allowed to speak. And by the way, because he lies with confidence, people who were watching this thought that there must have been something contractually that prevented me from speaking or allowed him to pepper questions at me. Both are false. That's what makes this especially funny.

00:38:48.580 There is absolutely no contract clause

00:38:50.280 that I allowed him to sit me for a deposition

00:38:51.800 because I refused it immediately.

00:38:53.640 I was like, that just sounds crazy.

00:38:55.640 And there was no contract clause that suggested

00:38:58.420 that I couldn't ask him questions

00:39:00.200 at any point in our discussion,

00:39:02.320 not even kind of, sort of.

00:39:04.220 He was just genuinely coming apart

00:39:06.540 and growing really antsy.

00:39:09.120 And he lies with so much confidence

00:39:11.080 that the internet just assumed like,

00:39:12.840 no, there must be something.

00:39:13.860 No, I, there was nothing.

00:39:16.100 here's that painful painful internet silence yeah i mean can i ask a question i know it's been

00:39:25.300 or like can i ask a question are we not really we're just i'm just gonna okay we're going to

00:39:29.980 hold to the actual contract itself the contract is does not say that you are allowed to just

00:39:36.660 question me without me being able to respond to you i've never said you can have a conversation

00:39:41.100 you've been able to respond to every question i've asked you and by the way the the other

00:39:45.580 thing is, is like, let's have it your way. I want it to look like we've done everything Andrew

00:39:49.560 wanted to so that people can fairly assess the situation. So you have it your way. I will not

00:39:53.700 ask a question. Totally fair with me. So are you good with her asking the question or no? He said

00:39:58.460 no. Waiting for the clip. Okay. So you want to wait for the clip first. Okay. You guys have it

00:40:04.040 in the back. Okay, beautiful.

00:40:22.740 You need the jeopardy thing.

00:40:24.060 Your team told me they had it. That's what I heard.

00:40:26.860 Okay, there we go. Come on, guys. Ready to take your investing knowledge to

00:40:30.060 pro level? This is Fidelity Connects, your daily edge in the markets. Get deep insights on real

00:40:35.800 time market topics that may impact your investment portfolio. Listen to Fidelity Connects on Spotify

00:40:40.660 today and power your next move tomorrow. It was so painful. So I think happened was because I

00:40:52.520 called him out. I said, like, you have four Erica Kirks. And he was like, I wasn't four in PBDs.

00:40:56.120 like, it was three. I think what happened was they had another Erica Kirk in queue and then

00:41:01.220 they just abandoned it. They just were like, we can't run this. And so then they ran this totally

00:41:05.080 irrelevant, uh, what was supposed to be a Lance bomb. But I naturally corrected myself very early

00:41:10.580 on in our discussion. Um, and I didn't realize that he was plotting this as some like big

00:41:14.600 explosion, like kid has got it wrong. They never officially said that Lance's DNA was on the rifle.

00:41:19.000 And so they just kind of played that. And it was weird. And I allowed it. I totally allowed the

00:41:24.880 silence because, A, never get in the way of your opponent when they're making a mistake.

00:41:28.860 It was such a completely nutty thing to say and to do. No, I'm just going to wait for the clip.

00:41:34.180 You can't say anything. And it was a lie. And I thought, let him do this because it's just going

00:41:39.620 to demonstrate his emotional instability, that he is trying to assert control because he knows

00:41:44.520 that he's lost it. Also, I was not going to argue with him about a non-existent contract clause and

00:41:49.680 waste energy. I mean, just debate about the contract seemed ridiculous. And lastly, if you

00:41:55.780 consider it, I made $418.63 during that 16-second silence. What is there to complain about? You want

00:42:04.460 me to be quiet? What are you? Okay. Okay. I gotcha. I'll be silent. It's a lot of money to make

00:42:09.220 to be quiet. Then came the most viral moment after he permitted me to speak again after the

00:42:17.840 clip was a nothing burger. And it happened accidentally, okay? So I felt bad that viewers

00:42:23.780 had to listen through him simping for Erica for so long. We had agreed to discuss this case. I,

00:42:29.480 as you know, had said to him, we should discuss the screwdriver, we should discuss the towel.

00:42:33.440 And I tried to then change the topic back to the case. And I made the wrong assumption that Andrew

00:42:40.320 Wilson had read the last filing, the filing for dismissal, which dropped two days before our

00:42:45.120 debate. And my positive evidence for that assumption was that Andrew Wilson himself

00:42:50.180 had tweeted about the filing as though it was helpful to his case. He tweeted about the filing

00:42:54.780 and they were all lying about what the filing was. And here he retweeted somebody else who said,

00:43:01.260 skimmed it. The Tyler Robinson defense is on absolute life support. And then he wrote back,

00:43:06.320 picked a hell of a week. So I was like, obviously he must have read this filing. And I read through

00:43:12.880 the filing and I'll just show you. As I do with everything, for those of you guys who've been

00:43:18.460 following me since the Blake, they marked it up, took notes and thought there were some really

00:43:23.360 compelling arguments here. So I like came prepared that we were going to discuss the most recent

00:43:27.580 filing as one of his wrong talking points that the Tyler Robinson admitted to the text messages

00:43:32.600 being real or one thing or another. So I also just sort of thought that even if he didn't read the

00:43:42.880 he would have at least read the last chapter before taking the exam. You know what I mean?

00:43:46.760 Every person knows that if you're going to try to BS and pretend that you read the book,

00:43:51.460 you better read the last chapter in case a character dies before you try to write an essay,

00:43:55.140 right? And I was wrong. I was floored when I saw him again do that obvious tell of his false

00:44:03.260 bravado. He just lies, of course. The manner that this man lies, it should be taught in a psych

00:44:09.520 course. I've never seen anything like it. And I just recognized it. Now I was familiar with his

00:44:15.560 style. When I asked him which charge specifically he thought Tyler Robinson was guilty of, it was

00:44:20.520 because I wanted to make sure I didn't make an assumption that he was more flexible in other

00:44:24.860 areas as we dove into this recent filing. And when he did the false, of course, bring it up,

00:44:30.420 I went, oh, he doesn't know any of them. And so this obviously became the most discussed moment.

00:44:38.380 this man came in to debate Tyler Robinson's guilt

00:44:43.460 and did not know guilty of what?

00:44:45.860 Take a listen.

00:44:47.440 Which one of the charges against, or all of them,

00:44:52.140 do you think Tyler Robinson is guilty of?

00:44:55.680 The specific charge?

00:44:58.040 Yeah.

00:44:58.540 Yeah, so I think, what I think is that

00:45:02.040 Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk.

00:45:05.560 Yeah, but of the seven charges that he's being charged.

00:45:08.460 Yeah, can we list them real quick?

00:45:09.700 I'll tell you exactly which ones.

00:45:11.120 We'll pull them up.

00:45:11.940 Well, do you know any of the charges

00:45:13.480 that he's up for right now?

00:45:15.000 Yeah, of course.

00:45:15.840 But I want to make sure that we have them listed.

00:45:17.940 Yeah, but like that's, can you name one?

00:45:20.120 Because my general perspective

00:45:21.460 is that you don't actually care about this case.

00:45:23.160 You're not following the case.

00:45:23.520 Is that it?

00:45:24.320 That's the question?

00:45:25.940 You're just not following it enough?

00:45:27.280 It seems pretty, like if you're going to engage

00:45:29.160 and you're going to say the evidence is overwhelming

00:45:30.780 that Tyler Robinson is guilty,

00:45:32.740 I just think that you should,

00:45:33.800 Can you tell me one charge?

00:45:35.260 Then let's do the counter.

00:45:36.700 You can really, hang on.

00:45:37.720 This is a great gotcha.

00:45:38.360 No, no, no.

00:45:38.760 You just got to ask me, play clips out of context, put me in the hot seat.

00:45:41.940 So please just answer the question.

00:45:43.340 This is fair.

00:45:43.940 Name all seven since you've been following the case.

00:45:46.600 Okay, sure.

00:45:47.300 Go ahead.

00:45:47.700 You name one.

00:45:48.400 Yeah, you name all seven.

00:45:49.640 I'm happy to do that, but can you name one?

00:45:51.200 I think he's been charged with murder.

00:45:53.940 That's actually incorrect.

00:45:54.580 Okay, great.

00:45:55.340 Now name all seven.

00:45:56.300 He doesn't even, this is like.

00:45:57.840 Name all seven.

00:45:58.620 And I think I.

00:45:59.460 Can you name all seven?

00:46:00.620 I can.

00:46:01.320 Then do it.

00:46:02.520 Sure, you don't have to.

00:46:03.320 Do it.

00:46:03.740 No, do it.

00:46:04.280 I'll count them.

00:46:04.880 Go ahead.

00:46:05.780 You don't have to put your fingers up.

00:46:06.920 Okay, hang on.

00:46:07.500 Name them.

00:46:07.960 Yeah, sure.

00:46:08.500 Name them.

00:46:09.160 The first charge is aggravated murder

00:46:10.780 because that's what carries a death sentence.

00:46:12.280 So murder?

00:46:13.040 No, that's not.

00:46:13.900 That is literally not murder.

00:46:15.100 Okay.

00:46:15.680 Next.

00:46:15.860 So just for people, no, don't,

00:46:16.980 I don't have to do it in a time limit.

00:46:18.240 There's nothing going on.

00:46:19.500 And just to explain to people the difference

00:46:20.600 of why that really matters

00:46:21.420 and shows that he doesn't actually care about this at all

00:46:23.680 is because aggravated murder,

00:46:25.640 it's narrowly defined.

00:46:27.500 Just avoiding the question.

00:46:28.240 And because it carries a death sentence.

00:46:29.220 I'm not, I'm going to answer the question.

00:46:30.380 you're just going to recognize that your strategy of thinking that people are intimidated when you

00:46:33.900 try to put a time constraint doesn't work and you'll be better the next time you debate someone.

00:46:36.480 I got it. I got it. Give me the other ones. The more you cut me off, the longer I'll take. Do you

00:46:41.200 want to just wait for me to finish of why that's a big difference so that people don't walk away?

00:46:44.460 No, I just want you to list the charges. Yeah, I'm going to do that. You just don't get to

00:46:47.980 pretend that there's a time constraint for me to do that. Well, how long does it take you to list

00:46:51.020 seven charges? Because I'm speaking. You just got to. It sounds like you're just delaying it

00:46:54.800 because you don't know. I know all seven of them. And I'm going to say again, because you're going

00:46:58.480 to get embarrassed. You don't have to rush this. I'm also showing an example of a very flawed

00:47:04.240 debate strategy. I actually am under no time constraint. I got one. Great. The second charge

00:47:09.660 is the felony discharge of a weapon. The next two charges are for obstruction of justice.

00:47:16.980 The next two charges are for witness tampering. And what's the specific charges though?

00:47:22.700 That is them. Obstruction of justice, obstruction of justice, witness tampering, witness tampering.

00:47:26.840 Okay, and there's no other specifics to him.

00:47:29.160 Well, I can tell you why he's being charged with it.

00:47:30.460 No, no, no, just the charges and then seven?

00:47:32.560 Yeah, see, the bad thing is when you try to be an a-hole

00:47:34.980 and it doesn't work.

00:47:35.720 What's the seventh?

00:47:36.360 The last charge is violence in front of a minor.

00:47:39.680 Okay, got it.

00:47:40.560 So then he's being charged with murder.

00:47:46.160 Shook, shaken.

00:47:48.380 I'm like, it's just, I can't even imagine

00:47:51.320 what it must be like.

00:47:53.720 I mean, I know his wife is equally as bad,

00:47:55.520 but just it's just such a liar like why say of course why not just say i actually don't know the

00:48:01.020 specific charges which would have been crazy but he then he just he it's this false provider this

00:48:06.500 is how he debates he just lies confidently and just lies and then when you recognize it and you

00:48:11.520 call him out i'm a lie he falls apart and he starts sticking more and more and more into the

00:48:15.260 chair sweating develop some things in his teeth you know and i just that entire personality of a

00:48:23.800 man just could never, it could never jive with me. Like I would never for a single second be

00:48:28.340 intimidated by that because it's, like I said, false bravado. There's nothing here that's

00:48:32.580 remotely intimidating. You're just an idiot dressed up as some like blood sport debater,

00:48:38.440 bro. There's nothing weaker than not just saying, oh, I don't know that. I would like to know what

00:48:42.460 the answer to that is. And I was hoping we would actually be able to have that constructive

00:48:45.140 dialogue. I was upset that we could not spend more time discussing this case. And once that

00:48:50.280 happened, he was completely deflated. I mean, Andrew Wilson was very lost. It was almost like

00:48:55.940 he had to remember things they wanted him to bring up. It was very obvious that his foot

00:49:00.520 just wanted out. I think his foot wanted to tell the truth. The foot was just, it wanted out. They

00:49:05.500 were like, oh, the foot holds the truth, you know? Andrew lies, but the foot just doesn't want to be

00:49:10.180 there. He was literally shaking in his boots. I don't know what was going on there. And he

00:49:17.520 couldn't kind of regain any sort of composure. I didn't understand anything he was getting at

00:49:24.020 beyond that. He started that bizarre inquisition about my show's timeline, demanding to know why

00:49:28.820 it was my show's official timeline and why I had included Tyler Robinson and Panguitch eating a

00:49:33.120 steak. I don't know if he's just averse to organization. I love organizing. Timelines

00:49:38.120 make sense to me. I love highlighting them. I love putting timestamps. I'm very proud of that.

00:49:42.820 But I don't know what he was getting at.

00:49:45.600 He just wanted to know.

00:49:47.780 I'm like, I spoke to the owner.

00:49:49.620 The owner told me that he pulled the receipts,

00:49:52.580 that it was Tyler Robinson's receipt.

00:49:55.100 And so I included this on my timeline.

00:49:57.400 And then the receipt that was shared was the real receipt.

00:50:00.040 And then he's like, well, why didn't you ask the merchant?

00:50:02.560 He's like, this is still not evidence.

00:50:04.580 You got to call Visa and MasterCard.

00:50:07.400 I mean, take a listen to what he said.

00:50:08.600 It was so absurd.

00:50:10.060 Well, the reason I'm asking you is because you always include it

00:50:12.660 in your timeline that he traveled to the steakhouse.

00:50:15.040 Yeah, we've been building a timeline

00:50:16.100 with things that we feel are Utah 1102 approved.

00:50:20.540 I think speaking to the owner,

00:50:21.740 knowing that there's a receipt,

00:50:22.840 seeing the receipt is good enough to put on our timeline.

00:50:26.240 But the receipt itself,

00:50:27.300 the question I always had about it is,

00:50:29.000 couldn't you just call the merchant?

00:50:30.280 Like if I've ever had a merchant account,

00:50:31.820 I just call the merchant account processor

00:50:33.440 and say, what's the name on this?

00:50:35.460 Yeah, I would stay tuned.

00:50:36.780 I feel that having spoken to the owner,

00:50:40.600 that the evidence is compelling.

00:50:42.660 enough to put onto my personal timeline of what took place on that day. That's where it's going

00:50:47.400 to stay. And if it gets debunked, I'm happy to take it off. If that's what you mean, that's how

00:50:51.480 an investigation works. Like I said, I did more than enough. It would definitely pass the test

00:50:59.140 by the Utah 1102 rule, for sure, for certain. To be submitted as hearsay.

00:51:05.380 Yeah, beyond that, because they didn't even have receipts. They were like, Bob told me this.

00:51:09.160 But the question is, the receipt itself, it has not been verified to have been Tyler Robinson's.

00:51:15.220 Yeah, I just want to say you're holding me to a higher standard than you are in the prosecution.

00:51:17.520 I'm not even holding me.

00:51:18.120 I'm just asking specifically.

00:51:20.160 Yeah, I've been very forthcoming.

00:51:21.740 I've told exactly what happened.

00:51:22.760 I spoke to the owner.

00:51:23.660 I got the tip, and I chased it down.

00:51:24.820 So should that be added in an official timeline that you give?

00:51:27.480 It's in my timeline.

00:51:28.240 It's my show, and we can add and subtract what we want, and we do if we get something wrong.

00:51:31.940 You can do what you want, sure, but I'm asking, should you include a thing that you know hasn't actually been verified to be Tyler Robinson's?

00:51:38.320 You should, if we're trying to build a timeline, you should.

00:51:40.860 Yeah.

00:51:41.160 You don't think that that falls under...

00:51:42.460 And then you should remove it if someone somehow debunks it.

00:51:45.320 But I think that there is very strong evidence that that is where he was.

00:51:49.880 And that is...

00:51:50.220 What's the strong evidence?

00:51:51.100 Just the two people who said that they saw him?

00:51:52.800 You know, I'm actually all good with being...

00:51:54.880 I feel like I've sufficiently answered your question about how I got the information,

00:51:58.580 what happened next.

00:52:00.040 With the next stage of this investigation being somebody accessing his...

00:52:05.040 Knowing what his debit card was and confirming it, yes.

00:52:06.940 And I do believe that that will happen.

00:52:08.180 And if it does not happen and it gets debunked, I'll remove it from my personal timeline that I share on my show.

00:52:15.040 He's like the first person account of the server saying that he served him.

00:52:20.160 They contacted the FBI.

00:52:22.200 He shared his experience.

00:52:23.320 He recognized Tyler Robinson on the news.

00:52:25.300 He gave an interview.

00:52:26.800 The owner, I spoke to him.

00:52:28.840 He said he's like that.

00:52:29.640 None of that is positive evidence.

00:52:32.020 I'm legitimately held to a higher standard than the FBI.

00:52:35.980 Meanwhile, we got the lead investigator of the case up there, and they're asking him

00:52:41.820 during the preliminary hearing, how did you know that the maroon person walking up the stairs

00:52:46.240 was the same person as the individual who was wearing the black shirt later that day? And he

00:52:52.580 says they were both wearing Converse sneakers. Andrew says that's compelling. Tweets that that's

00:53:00.140 a part of the overwhelming evidence. Me, did you call Visa and MasterCard beyond speaking to all

00:53:06.600 of these people, beyond the receipt? Did you call to confirm a Visa with the merchant that this was

00:53:13.720 in fact the Tyler Robinson who was up? No, actually, I haven't done that. But you know what?

00:53:18.840 My timeline is going to stay my timeline. I'm proud of my timeline. I'm a very organized person.

00:53:23.680 my pantry is very clean. I love the container store. I use label makers for everything. Even

00:53:30.260 my seasonings in my cabinet. I have label makers in my refrigerator. So I will not allow you to

00:53:37.900 tell me about how my timeline should be organized. That's what I want to say. I almost lost it there.

00:53:43.400 So ribbon moms who have organized pantries, stand up. At the end of the day, I am so embarrassed

00:53:50.000 for Turning Point USA.

00:53:51.320 I cannot imagine Erica hugging this person.

00:53:55.140 I've got to show you guys more clips.

00:53:56.320 He is literally disgusting, right?

00:53:59.280 And they thought this guy

00:54:00.760 was going to be able to take me down.

00:54:03.800 I was trained by Charlie Kirk

00:54:05.400 and they sent me Andrew Wilson.

00:54:08.800 But I will say on a positive note,

00:54:10.300 it was bittersweet because it was just amazing

00:54:12.600 to remember all those things

00:54:13.960 that Charlie told me not to do,

00:54:15.300 not to fall for.

00:54:16.180 Don't start attacking him personally.

00:54:17.800 I did not engage in that.

00:54:18.740 He opened with that.

00:54:20.000 uh, ad hominem attacks, uh, against me, um, remembering to always overstudy. Like I took

00:54:26.260 it very seriously. Obviously I was not planning gotcha clips. Um, but I was marking up filings,

00:54:31.480 reminding myself, rewatching the preliminary hearing, uh, going back to the timeline to

00:54:35.800 remind myself because so much has transpired obviously in 11 months. And Charlie used to

00:54:40.460 always tell me that you see people get crushed in these sorts of debates who are overconfident.

00:54:46.920 And then there's just like the one kid who asks a question that throws them off and it goes viral. So never underestimate your opponent. I know what to expect. And I didn't obviously not expect that he was just going to be one of these weird middle aged men with gotcha clips. I thought he was genuinely going to read at least one of the case volumes, you know, one of the charges. But it was it was, like I said, good to go through that again.

00:55:06.920 And to be studying and to do the thing that he said with the note cards, I did every single thing that Charlie told me to do and to stay calm when they're trying to poke you, be aware of people that are trying to put you into these sorts of legal traps.

00:55:20.980 and it genuinely when it concluded we were just like cheering we were so happy uh bittersweet

00:55:28.500 obviously because you i never thought in any of that um learning with charlie that it would one

00:55:34.920 day be me debating someone that his organization clearly sent uh but such is life and i'm happy

00:55:41.940 that it is me that is exposing what his organization has become um in the wake of his

00:55:47.160 assassination. Anyway, we'll be right back after a brief break. All right, you guys, I want to pass

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00:58:50.060 slash Owens to start saving today. Okay, so much that I want to say about the reaction on the

00:58:56.220 internet. It was fantastic. First and foremost, I don't think the left and right have ever been

00:59:00.440 united on anything. But in our general sense of what Turning Point USA has become, we're united.

00:59:07.420 Genuinely, he performed so badly, like not even the neocons would touch it. The best they could

00:59:11.240 do for Andrew Wilson was to say it was unwatchable. No one I couldn't even watch it. I couldn't even

00:59:16.520 watch it. So it doesn't even matter how anybody did. And everyone who was backing him to sort of

00:59:21.740 backed off immediately. And they're they're doing their best. But they can't they can't pretend

00:59:26.280 the memes have been exceptional from the left and from the right. They have been exceptional

00:59:31.700 mocking him. It's amazing to see. This man is not a conservative, by the way. I'm so sick of these

00:59:36.960 like wannabe, like C-list people that come out and then just call themselves conservatives,

00:59:43.040 but obviously live their lives in a way that is anything but. They're complete frauds.

00:59:47.000 I'm going to go through some of my favorite memes. Andrew, first off, coming out and declaring

00:59:50.540 that he won by asking, not ChatGPT, he asked Claude. And Claude told him, since every poll

00:59:59.600 said he didn't win with humans, he then went to Claude and drummed up a conversation, I guess.

01:00:04.320 and Claude told him he really was the winner.

01:00:06.800 He really was the winner.

01:00:08.020 Everyone who's a human didn't like you,

01:00:10.440 but the robot community loves you.

01:00:12.400 And he did tweet of this.

01:00:14.080 Every AI source will say I won.

01:00:16.400 This was never in question.

01:00:17.620 Specific AI programs built for this purpose.

01:00:19.540 He actually ended up getting a fact check on this

01:00:21.040 and people explained that it's just AI scraping

01:00:24.420 from establishment sources.

01:00:26.560 And we all know the establishment is behind Dirty Point USA.

01:00:29.780 But this is just the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.

01:00:32.920 He literally crashed markets, by the way. During the debate, I didn't know that Polymarket had odds on whether or not Tyler Robinson would be convicted. And during the debate, the odds crashed. That represents our debate day, where you see that line going down. That is how poorly he performed.

01:00:53.580 Tyler Robinson convicted of homicide dropped into the 30s.

01:00:57.460 I think it hit 34% during our debate, which was positively hilarious.

01:01:03.220 But I'm going to show you some of my favorite memes.

01:01:06.740 So you might have seen on the thumbnail, if you are not following this account,

01:01:11.340 I think it's Wear Forbidden Clothing is the at handle.

01:01:15.140 I want to make sure I get that correct.

01:01:16.660 They are so funny.

01:01:18.040 For years, actually, I've been following them.

01:01:19.900 They are so funny.

01:01:20.640 But this video that they created, this AI video, which went viral this weekend and which is represented, as I said, on my thumbnail, just tickled me so much of Erica calling in Andrew after that abysmal performance.

01:01:35.240 Take a listen and a watch of this.

01:01:39.420 Wait, wait, I can explain.

01:01:41.640 Shabbat shalom, Andrew.

01:01:45.020 What?

01:01:45.760 We invested a lot in you.

01:01:47.580 I was having nicotine withdrawal.

01:01:48.840 The chair was uncomfortable.

01:01:49.640 I barely slept.

01:01:50.400 my foot was silence she asked you to name one of the seven charges you said positive evidence

01:01:55.200 47 times it was a framework 47 times andrew bring me the jar

01:02:02.960 no please not the pickles

01:02:08.320 jars wide shut and uh just to correct that the handle is at where forbidden um on x and

01:02:17.440 And the reason why it's jars wide shut is because this goes back to a moment where he was being disrespectful to a woman who couldn't open a jar.

01:02:24.820 I think it was actually of olives or pickles on the whatever podcast.

01:02:27.920 And he was smoking a cigarette.

01:02:29.540 And then she said, OK, then you open it.

01:02:31.220 And he couldn't open it.

01:02:32.060 So now he's kind of called pickle boy.

01:02:35.120 And that, again, his false bravado all the time is what gets him into these circumstances.

01:02:40.140 I absolutely loved that.

01:02:41.480 I also loved the stages of grief.

01:02:43.120 Everybody grieves differently.

01:02:44.180 So he's grieving by first talking to Claude.

01:02:46.100 the five stages of debate grief. This is from at alpha approved. They write denial. I totally

01:02:51.740 won that debate. Number two, anger. That was rigged, biased, unfair. That's actually going

01:02:56.140 to happen. His wife. Number three, bargaining. OK, maybe I lost, but Candace is worse. Number

01:03:01.560 four, depression. Why do I even debate? And number five, acceptance, which will come,

01:03:06.300 which will say he will come out and say, all right, maybe I should have prepared. Maybe I

01:03:09.720 should have known one of the charges. We are at phase one and we are also at phase two,

01:03:14.800 which I can give you an example of his wife trying to suggest that we maybe rigged the mic pieces

01:03:21.460 is is crazy okay I have one in my ear right now it allows us to hear what the producers are saying

01:03:28.200 as I told you uh his guy Rob who was very professional and kind so no shade to Rob was

01:03:33.820 sitting next to them and they that's why he was saying could you pull a clip or whatever his team

01:03:39.100 was right next to my team. And these earpieces do not work beyond 15 feet out of out of the

01:03:44.220 control room. So they just and Andrew will tell you that every time he got up, he had to reset it.

01:03:49.060 They don't work. So there's no one else that could possibly be talking in your ear because of the

01:03:52.520 structure of our walls. So anyway, Rachel responds, who is his like horrific wife, responds to

01:04:00.160 somebody trying to pretend that I was receiving intel on that last question because they're still

01:04:05.500 coping over this. Was Candace Owens being fed answers? Something about the debate caught my

01:04:09.960 attention. Both Candace and Andrew appeared to be wearing in-ear monitors. So what are these

01:04:16.120 actually used for? And he kind of goes through all this. I literally turned these people into

01:04:19.360 a conspiracy theorist by the end of it. He started off by calling us conspiracy theorists,

01:04:23.120 and then by the end of it, he was going through my phone and thought that I was texting people

01:04:26.240 for answers. That's amazing. That's a flawless victory. That's a flawless victory. To end it

01:04:30.660 with him suggesting a conspiracy where what I was actually doing when he came back in the chair,

01:04:35.860 because I barely got up. I literally only got up one time that entire. He went up every break. I

01:04:39.700 did not get up. I was tweeting. You guys saw me tweet right before that. I sent one tweet. I texted

01:04:45.760 nobody during the entire debate because I was focused. I was locked in. But then I was like,

01:04:50.320 I'm going to send a funny tweet because I feel pretty confident I won this. And when he came

01:04:54.100 back, he saw me doing that and thought that I texted someone, which is very funny. And guess

01:04:58.400 what? The answer to a conspiracy theory, I demonstrated for him. Here's my phone. Just

01:05:02.680 answer the question. Make the person feel comfortable. You don't have to go crazy.

01:05:06.840 And it's the one thing Turning Point USA does not want to do at all is answer any questions.

01:05:11.320 They just want to send these debate bros, I guess, out. But this was absolutely hilarious

01:05:17.340 that I thought that meme was fantastic. We also created our own meme because I used to be anti

01:05:22.260 Turning Point USA shills, but he's different. I don't want anybody referring to Andrew Wilson as

01:05:27.600 a paid shill. Andrew Wilson's not a paid shill. This is like the Drizzy meme. TPUSA sending paid

01:05:33.160 shills, not cool. TPUSA sending shills that pay? We're with it. We're with it. Send more,

01:05:40.680 Turning Point. That's how you'll show them. Pay $100,000 an hour to be embarrassed. Genius.

01:05:46.280 What a great idea. That's amazing. That's my new rate, $100,000 if you want me to embarrass you.

01:05:51.480 he must be into that or whatever.

01:05:55.160 Anyways, his wife had responded to that

01:05:58.020 and pretended, like tried to add to it,

01:06:00.300 like I know that they had headpieces,

01:06:02.100 but I'm not really sure why they had these headpieces.

01:06:04.800 I believe the contract stipulated

01:06:06.460 that each of them was allowed to wear an earpiece.

01:06:08.720 That's just a lie.

01:06:09.480 Why do they lie so much?

01:06:10.820 Why do they lie all the time?

01:06:12.340 No, the earpieces, which he and I were sharing

01:06:15.580 left and right, were just a producer.

01:06:18.220 our producers we all heard the exact same thing and pbd had a direct line to them

01:06:23.500 then this quote was hilarious because obviously steven crowder is somehow invested in this and

01:06:28.700 you know just never growing up and he when he did the i guess he was on the phone with

01:06:35.200 andrew wilson right after the debate was speaking to him he kind of tried to imply

01:06:39.220 like one way that we tried to hurt him was by not providing him with hair and makeup

01:06:43.660 because he looked like he was sweating,

01:06:45.840 like that was our fault or something.

01:06:47.620 Take a listen to this absurd exchange.

01:06:51.600 Did they Nixon JFK you?

01:06:53.600 Because she has a full stylist and makeup crew.

01:06:55.380 Did they give you makeup and like, no, no, no.

01:06:59.060 You looked a little bit.

01:06:59.580 I would have refused.

01:07:00.500 You looked a little bit shiny.

01:07:02.100 You looked a little shiny.

01:07:03.720 You looked a little shiny.

01:07:05.500 Yeah, it looked a little shiny.

01:07:06.880 It happens.

01:07:11.920 I don't even know what to say about it.

01:07:13.060 It's just, it's like, first and foremost,

01:07:15.340 we do not have, again,

01:07:17.140 asserting something confidently and lying.

01:07:18.940 I know they have wardrobe.

01:07:20.160 We do not have, and nor have we ever had wardrobe.

01:07:22.620 We do not have a full-time makeup artist.

01:07:24.400 We do not have a full-time hairstylist, none of that.

01:07:28.740 So in between takes, I take care of myself always.

01:07:31.480 That's it.

01:07:32.300 Everybody knows that my cousin does my hair.

01:07:34.460 She's the one that gives me the blowouts

01:07:35.600 and takes care of my hair.

01:07:37.340 People have known this for years,

01:07:38.520 since before I was even a podcaster.

01:07:40.360 She hasn't taken care of my hair.

01:07:41.300 and our makeup artist was actually off that day.

01:07:44.080 She does a glam and go though.

01:07:45.300 So it's like in the morning she comes in

01:07:47.020 and then she leaves.

01:07:48.260 So this being a point,

01:07:49.840 like as a PBD,

01:07:51.180 somebody was coming out and flying in

01:07:52.580 and making him look good

01:07:53.440 and making me look good,

01:07:55.300 that this is how much these people were coping.

01:07:58.180 Like trying to find a conspiracy

01:07:59.640 to make it seem like there was something that was not fair.

01:08:01.920 If you look greasy,

01:08:03.340 pull up a mirror instead of going out

01:08:04.640 and having a cigarette and having a smoke

01:08:06.560 and powder your own face.

01:08:09.140 I don't know what to tell you.

01:08:09.900 we're a small team and we're just not, we don't care about things like that. We don't want to

01:08:14.220 spend a bunch of money on things to make ourselves feel important. And my favorite of the Copes was

01:08:19.780 his wife conceding exactly what us conspiracy theorists have been saying since the very

01:08:25.400 beginning is that actually the grifters are these people. They know nothing about the case at all.

01:08:30.060 They just want to go on TV and say, oh, this person's scared of me. This person won't debate.

01:08:34.940 They don't know anything.

01:08:36.900 So she writes this long tweet,

01:08:39.300 and it's right there in yellow.

01:08:41.320 She says, of course, Candace will know the details better.

01:08:44.520 She admits, I knew the details better.

01:08:46.180 She's been covering this day in and day out

01:08:47.940 for 11 months and doing practically nothing else.

01:08:50.740 Andrew had about six days to prepare.

01:08:53.260 There's no way he was going to beat her

01:08:55.380 on having more knowledge of the details.

01:08:58.760 Goodness, Rachel.

01:09:00.460 Wow, this is a wife that, like,

01:09:02.740 so she admits that I beat him on that, A.

01:09:05.200 which stands against his, I want the debate.

01:09:07.760 But also she admits he doesn't care about this.

01:09:10.520 He walked into Turning Point USA headquarters in June

01:09:13.020 and came out flashing around money

01:09:15.480 and suddenly tweeting at me and attacking me

01:09:17.640 because that's what they orchestrate

01:09:19.620 at Turning Point USA headquarters.

01:09:20.720 This is no longer a serious organization

01:09:22.640 that cares about whether or not people

01:09:24.500 are living their lives admirably.

01:09:26.540 This is no longer, I mean, it is crazy to me

01:09:28.760 that if you just go through the clips

01:09:31.320 and learning about Andrew and Rachel Wilson,

01:09:33.800 that this is who they tied their horse to,

01:09:35.220 this is who they're feeding information to,

01:09:36.860 that any person would willfully donate to them,

01:09:39.160 that any person would want their child

01:09:40.860 to sign up for this conservative organization

01:09:42.780 that is not representing conservative principles.

01:09:45.580 My opinion, by the way,

01:09:47.900 what's my positive evidence for it?

01:09:49.200 Andrew Wilson.

01:09:50.200 Is that positive evidence?

01:09:51.060 I don't know.

01:09:51.600 What does it all mean?

01:09:53.040 Can it be my opinion

01:09:54.340 that Turning Point USA is a dumpster fire?

01:09:57.680 Because that's what it is.

01:09:59.620 I do want to address this very quickly.

01:10:01.020 I realize we are now way over time.

01:10:02.240 I don't know if we're going to have time for book club

01:10:03.680 because I didn't realize I had so many words to say.

01:10:06.460 But people were randomly,

01:10:10.560 as soon as I said I would take it.

01:10:11.960 So first it's, she's scared, she's scared, she's scared.

01:10:13.900 There's money on the table.

01:10:15.380 And that's what I'm doing wrong.

01:10:16.380 I'm being scared and not taking the money.

01:10:17.600 Then I take the money,

01:10:18.680 exactly what he offers to Andrew Kay.

01:10:20.160 And I'm a bad guy because how could I take the money?

01:10:22.020 These people are insane.

01:10:22.820 They're just insane.

01:10:23.620 There's no way to make them happy.

01:10:25.120 They can't leave you alone

01:10:26.120 and let you just investigate the case

01:10:28.560 because the money's on the table.

01:10:30.960 and then they chastise you for taking the money.

01:10:33.920 And they were all instantly like,

01:10:36.020 Candace needs to establish a trust for Erica Kirk.

01:10:38.260 Like the people outside of Michael Knowles,

01:10:40.200 the people that I absolutely despise

01:10:41.760 all saying this in unison,

01:10:42.900 that I need to donate this money

01:10:43.980 and establish a trust for Charlie's children.

01:10:48.300 And then people just randomly telling me

01:10:50.320 what I should do with the money.

01:10:51.200 Like for example, this person,

01:10:53.000 multimillionaire Candace Owens

01:10:54.640 should donate her victory money

01:10:56.520 to Tyler Robinson's defense

01:10:57.980 if she really thinks that he's innocent.

01:11:00.080 Andrew Wilson put his money where his mouth is.

01:11:02.060 Why doesn't Candace?

01:11:04.040 Like, I didn't offer Tyler Robinson publicly

01:11:08.660 go across things and say,

01:11:09.900 I'm gonna, to prove to people that I think he's innocent,

01:11:13.060 I'm gonna give 300, I never did that.

01:11:14.660 I don't do those sorts of things.

01:11:16.400 That's not what I do.

01:11:17.940 I'm not braggadocious and nor would any person

01:11:20.840 who knows the least bit about finance be so stupid

01:11:23.640 as to spend $300,000 to have a conversation

01:11:29.380 with someone who debates for free, always.

01:11:32.400 Do my annual debates with Piers Morgan, they're for free.

01:11:35.240 Been debating all across college campus.

01:11:37.300 I was doing that for free.

01:11:39.420 I've had debates with Rabbi Shmuley,

01:11:41.460 who I can't stand on Piers Morgan for free.

01:11:44.340 And so it's just so interesting that actually my entire life,

01:11:47.440 all these people ever do is message me kindly

01:11:50.400 and respectfully and ask for a debate.

01:11:51.840 No one has to throw money around.

01:11:52.860 That's how it works.

01:11:53.660 I've hosted debates.

01:11:54.540 There's been no money involved.

01:11:55.580 This is unique because Turning Point USA

01:11:57.560 just hates me this much.

01:11:58.780 And we're obviously Blake Neff and Andrew Colvett were retweeting him as he was going after me and offering more and more money.

01:12:07.760 And now they think the solution to that is for me to open a trust for Charlie's children, which in a way, I know it's not, but it feels like money laundering.

01:12:15.940 The organization that's hunting me, you want me to then give the money to the person who would be in control?

01:12:21.040 That would at first, of course, would be Erica.

01:12:23.620 First of all, what I want to say is there are a few things I despise more than fake altruism.

01:12:28.780 people who do charity as a part of a PR program

01:12:32.220 and not because it's necessary or needed.

01:12:34.740 And Charlie Kirk's children have been multimillionaires

01:12:37.580 while he was alive.

01:12:39.440 And that increased in his death.

01:12:42.560 Many people opened trusts, raised money.

01:12:45.080 The last thing that Charlie Kirk's children need

01:12:48.320 is more money.

01:12:50.560 What they need is a stable parent.

01:12:51.520 And unfortunately, I can't give them that.

01:12:53.940 Right, I can't give them that.

01:12:54.720 Mom doesn't want to be home.

01:12:56.540 Dad can't be home.

01:12:58.180 and the one thing they need

01:13:00.380 is not a bunch of influencers

01:13:01.600 using them as a talking point

01:13:03.080 and suggesting that 300 more K

01:13:05.620 could plausibly make a difference.

01:13:07.580 And like I said,

01:13:09.300 there's something about it

01:13:10.020 that just feels icky.

01:13:11.060 Like the very people

01:13:11.720 who sent the person to hunt you

01:13:13.040 are basically trying to create

01:13:14.300 a peer pressure campaign

01:13:15.260 for you to give the money back.

01:13:16.540 Like I just,

01:13:17.100 that's not going to stand for me.

01:13:18.900 And so instead,

01:13:20.320 what I would like to announce

01:13:21.060 that I'm doing with my money thus far,

01:13:22.720 what I've decided,

01:13:23.420 other than the fact

01:13:23.980 that I did go to Waffle House this weekend,

01:13:26.240 is I'm going to take care of the people

01:13:28.080 who took care of me as this organization has fixated, sent influencers, is a part and parcel

01:13:36.340 of these group chats that are coming together, protect Erica Kirk, people who have attempted to

01:13:41.680 make our children feel unsafe, that they have gotten behind, retweeted, supported. I'm going

01:13:47.760 to look out for those people, people like my sister. If you want an organization that's going

01:13:54.700 to get money from me is going to be the Catholic Church, the priests that took care of me emotionally

01:13:59.820 when I was coming apart with the realization that Charlie and everything that he had worked for,

01:14:05.260 he's been betrayed. He has. Charlie has been betrayed. Everybody can see that. You betray

01:14:09.360 him every single day when you do these sorts of things. You betray who he was. You betray

01:14:15.760 the friendships that he had. You lie constantly about who he was, about the things that he was

01:14:22.880 thinking. I am not going to take any instruction from Turning Point USA or any of their affiliates

01:14:31.300 or any of these neocon dogs that they send out on what I should do with the money. It's just not

01:14:36.180 going to happen. So yeah, I'm going to take care of my sisters. I'm going to give money to the

01:14:40.980 Catholic Church and I'm going to decide what I want to do. That's it. You were the ones who

01:14:44.840 offered the money. You were the ones who retweeted it. And so it's therefore mine. You can skip all

01:14:50.600 of your fake altruism. Why don't you guys give more money to that organization? Because the

01:14:54.920 direction that they're headed, I don't see that this is going to be an organization in 10 years

01:14:59.260 down the road. I see it crashing and burning like everybody else does. And like I said,

01:15:04.060 for the first time ever, the left and the right are united in their disgust for what this

01:15:09.660 organization has become. And that was not a feeling that people had on the right,

01:15:15.060 especially in the wake of the assassination. So you guys did this. This was your loss,

01:15:19.720 URL. And that's all I'm going to say about that. We'll be right back after a brief break.

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01:17:19.700 Okay, I also wanna let you guys know,

01:17:21.480 we got so many messages.

01:17:22.440 Please sell the t-shirt.

01:17:23.620 I can explain it to you,

01:17:24.420 but I cannot understand it for you.

01:17:27.280 Exhausted trying to explain this to him.

01:17:28.840 We do have that available on our website.

01:17:32.160 So if you go to ksowens.com

01:17:33.340 and you can have that t-shirt,

01:17:35.680 we have them available.

01:17:37.040 We also made that a sweatshirt.

01:17:39.260 I can explain it to you,

01:17:39.940 but I cannot understand it for you.

01:17:40.960 t-shirts, different sizes of that available. And of course, a mug, which I can't wait to get if I

01:17:45.580 can explain it to you. And we also put up this. This is my second favorite shirt. If you know,

01:17:50.940 you know, it's in maroon. This is my wear your second favorite shirt. If you've learned nothing

01:17:56.580 from this podcast to do bad stuff, you wear your second favorite shirt, not your first favorite

01:18:02.560 shirt. So we have some new merch that's available on the website. And that is, of course, the easiest

01:18:06.920 way to support us and support the work that we do and the investigation, which we can now

01:18:10.420 refocus on, which was really none of their business at all. Why Turning Point USA doesn't

01:18:15.340 want people investigating and exploring other leads in the Charlie Kirk assassination

01:18:19.620 boggles the mind. It really boggles the mind. Top comments from the great debate. Go Max Everyday

01:18:26.620 writes, let me begin by reading this message from my sponsor, Turning Point USA. Yes, that is what

01:18:31.780 it felt like. It was absurd. It had nothing to do with the debate claims. Know your sigh up. Second

01:18:36.300 message 75 to 85 percent confident Tyler did it is literally reasonable doubt. I am so glad I didn't

01:18:43.160 even look at the comments. My producers pulled this that you guys clocked it as well. It's crazy

01:18:47.380 that they just concede the entire debate right at the beginning. So, yes, you have a right to

01:18:53.520 pursue other leads. No, you do not have to reach out to Visa and MasterCard and speak to the

01:18:59.920 merchant to do so. I want you guys to know that I may guys have to. I didn't realize you were so

01:19:05.340 overtime on Book Club, so we may need to do that tomorrow. We're finishing the book. And thank you

01:19:11.960 to Book Club for allowing me to bump Friday to accommodate the great debate. Comments from

01:19:17.520 today's episode. True Detective writes, Andrew Wilson's rules of the debate. Avoid knowing the

01:19:21.340 facts of the case. Pretend to be intelligent and qualified. And don't mind that your left foot is

01:19:25.480 nodding in agreement with Candace throughout the conversation. And question, when Andrew's wife

01:19:30.500 makes him a sandwich

01:19:31.400 as he expected to open

01:19:32.700 the pickle bar

01:19:33.540 to pickle jar.

01:19:35.900 I mean,

01:19:36.700 that relationship

01:19:37.500 is just odd

01:19:38.060 at space toxic.

01:19:38.860 Like I said,

01:19:39.300 you should go look up clips

01:19:40.200 of her disgusting mouth

01:19:42.580 and the things that she says

01:19:43.600 in the whatever podcast

01:19:44.420 and how she speaks

01:19:45.820 and they're branding themselves

01:19:46.780 as Orthodox Christians

01:19:47.860 and he said on some stream

01:19:50.220 that his wife went in

01:19:51.460 and spoke to the executives

01:19:53.160 at Turning Point USA.

01:19:54.320 That's why I say

01:19:55.100 Turning Point USA

01:19:55.700 is just over.

01:19:56.360 Like we can't,

01:19:56.980 this Christian sigh up

01:19:57.700 has to end.

01:19:58.300 We just have to stop pretending.

01:19:59.780 Erica on her face is,

01:20:01.240 I can't get a sentence out without saying the Lord,

01:20:03.280 the Lord, the Lord.

01:20:05.600 She's hugging Andrew Wilson.

01:20:07.240 These are who are being brought into our organization

01:20:08.680 and given money to train people to debate.

01:20:13.220 I'm sorry people are clocking that.

01:20:14.540 I'm sorry.

01:20:15.500 It's not positive.

01:20:16.240 It's not positive evidence,

01:20:17.660 but it feels like some evidence

01:20:19.700 that the whole brand is fraudulent now.

01:20:23.160 It feels like evidence that Turning Point USA

01:20:25.640 say is now essentially trying to sell people faux Christianity while they behave in just the most

01:20:34.100 detestable way behind the scenes. And now it's in front of the scenes. Like I said, I can't wait for

01:20:38.740 him to drop that message. They have themselves in a pickle with that message. He says he's dropping

01:20:45.120 it this week. Do your thing, Andrew. Do your thing. WeWokeNow writes, in the words of my

01:20:51.520 grandmother, he don't know no better. Way to stay above the muck. Yes, I was just not going to meet

01:20:57.120 him on his level. He came across as petty and just, these men are too old for this. Like,

01:21:01.280 you know what I mean? He's almost 50. Steven Grower's 40. Like, grow up. Be professional.

01:21:08.120 What are you all doing with these accounts that you're dedicating to tweeting about Candace Owens

01:21:13.540 90 times a day? Find something that gives you purpose and go after it. I don't know you. I

01:21:20.620 don't know these people. It's crazy. I literally have never met Stephen Crowder. So that entire

01:21:27.580 obsession with me is just because I covered when he was berating his wife and said it was gross

01:21:31.720 because it was. It just was. Crisangelo writes, one thing that is actually overwhelming is how

01:21:37.220 proud Charlie is of you. As he smiles from heaven, the Holy Spirit truly gave you the patience and

01:21:40.640 discernment needed for the debate. Keep going, Max, for the truth and for Charlie, Christ as

01:21:44.020 King. Thank you for saying that. And like I said, that was the bittersweet thing is I was reminded

01:21:47.640 of just, I really feel like I have this, Charlie.

01:21:50.060 No, you should still go over everything

01:21:51.760 because it just takes one question.

01:21:53.440 And for someone to throw you off your game,

01:21:55.560 you have to stay updated.

01:21:56.540 And I did all of that.

01:21:58.380 And I'm glad that it worked out.

01:22:00.000 Jenna wrote, you were amazing in the debate.

01:22:02.100 I offered my daily mass and rosary for you on Friday.

01:22:04.180 I'm so proud of you.

01:22:04.940 Such a role model for my four daughters.

01:22:07.880 Christ is King.

01:22:09.160 Yeah, that's one of the first things I did.

01:22:10.320 I went to a Saturday mass and just thank the Lord,

01:22:15.100 you know, just for the ability to communicate in a way and to have the opportunity to expose

01:22:21.880 what we all know is going on. And that's, by the way, the real purpose of what Andrew was doing

01:22:26.560 was to distract us. With nothingness, they brought no new people to their side. It's just

01:22:32.360 the same establishment media trying to convince you that you should not believe your own eyes

01:22:38.020 and your ears. And that's what we have right now. That's what we're living right now.

01:22:42.380 Riley England writes,

01:22:43.120 Candice, what a master class

01:22:44.160 for how gracefully and brilliantly

01:22:45.240 you defend your convictions with facts.

01:22:46.840 We all know you did this for Charlie.

01:22:47.960 You displayed a restraint in a class that I look up to

01:22:49.780 and you clearly owned Pickles.

01:22:51.480 LOL, St. Joan of Arc, pray for us.

01:22:53.440 Indeed, that is my patron saint.

01:22:56.240 And I hope that people did learn that.

01:23:00.320 Just stay calm.

01:23:02.160 And yeah, I could have forced and been like,

01:23:03.720 I wanna just talk about the case.

01:23:05.100 But I, like I said,

01:23:06.080 I actually know that my audience is smarter than that.

01:23:08.700 I believe in my audience.

01:23:09.780 I know people can see through that.

01:23:12.780 They saw right through him in the same way that I saw through him live,

01:23:15.680 maddening to hear him keep telling us stuff happened five seconds ago

01:23:18.640 that didn't happen five seconds ago,

01:23:20.060 but say it with like smugness and arrogance.

01:23:22.980 You said it. You said this.

01:23:25.060 No, I literally didn't say that.

01:23:26.980 Like, you don't have magical powers here, sir.

01:23:30.140 Zamet writes, I think Andrew Wilson was hoping to open the pickle jar

01:23:32.740 with the screwdriver that they planted on the rooftop.

01:23:35.680 Indeed.

01:23:36.780 Callens writes, thank you, Candace.

01:23:39.500 followed you since Fox News. You're no more on Fox. Thank God for you and Charlie with love.

01:23:44.520 Thank you. And J. Beam writes, it really freaks me out that Andrew said, you could just not do

01:23:51.480 what you are doing, seeking the truth and asking questions and be okay. He said that quote, you

01:23:56.500 could just not do what you're doing and be okay. It's almost as if he is aware or realized on air

01:24:01.700 that you are close to the truth. Totally creepy for him to say that, a bit worried. It was strange

01:24:06.240 to me that he so instantly jumped into the Israel and France narrative, which, by the way,

01:24:11.200 people would add that to why they think Israel is sus, because why does it take and require so

01:24:16.580 many people to try to tell us that Israel is not involved? Why is that a priority for you at all?

01:24:20.480 Your debate claim is the evidence is overwhelming that Tyler Robinson did it. If the evidence is

01:24:24.540 truly overwhelming that Tyler Robinson did it, you defending and proving your debate claim would take

01:24:28.920 care of the Israel one. But he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't want to talk about or defend

01:24:33.540 the claim. He instead wants to go, why do you think Israel did it? Where is your positive evidence?

01:24:36.940 My positive evidence is you sitting here right now prioritizing defending Israel rather than

01:24:42.460 your claim. It's us. People think it's suspicious because it is. You keep trying to force this

01:24:49.220 Israel didn't do it narrative. And the more that you do it, we go.

01:24:52.080 just doesn't make sense, trying to constantly emphasize this. The best way to prove Israel's

01:25:03.840 innocence is to prove Tyler Robinson's guilt. And you failed to do that. People should be taking a

01:25:11.080 look at the Israel narrative. We have a right to ask questions. We're going to continue to do that.

01:25:14.320 um true i think i read that jenna oh i think i did i read that one as well and i think i read

01:25:24.520 them all i think i'm good actually seven sheets was the one i was missing seven sheets wrote i

01:25:28.800 can explain to you but i can't understand it for you wow we need merch this will go down in debate

01:25:33.000 history kudos to your bravery once again but they must realize we are legion right behind you god

01:25:37.700 is with you um thank you so much for you guys being with me i think our audience actually grew

01:25:43.520 The platform got bigger. And it's because telling the truth, also exercising humility is really important. And if you learn anything from this debate, like if you don't know something, just say you don't know it. You're not required to be an expert at everything. I didn't even dive into it.

01:25:57.920 sounded crazy when he said the bullets split in air and caused air. It felt like another one of

01:26:03.140 his confident lies. But I wasn't going to pretend to be a ballistics expert on splitting bullets

01:26:09.980 midair that create air under your shirt. And I just trusted the Internet. They will take a look

01:26:18.540 at that. The hunters, the common sense people were going to go. This man is once again lying

01:26:24.380 boldly about that claim. And sure enough, we've already seen videos of people just going,

01:26:28.940 he's clinically insane. I had Air Force veterans messaging me being like, I cannot believe he said

01:26:34.140 this on your platform. And that's the point. This is how we grow. This is how we are, Legion,

01:26:38.200 because people go, that is such an absurd lie to tell that I now need to look into what Kenneth

01:26:43.680 has been saying. And so many people then go back and they watch the content and they recognize the

01:26:47.360 holes. And we are doing this because we know that everything is wrong with the Charlie Kirk

01:26:52.440 narrative. Literally everything is wrong with this narrative. And like I say to you guys all

01:26:57.660 the time, they're not going to get away with it. Positive evidence or not, I sense that we are

01:27:03.680 getting closer to the truth and they are getting panicked. But here's what I will say. There has

01:27:09.160 to be a consequence for Turning Point USA. There does. There has to. Vengeance does not belong to

01:27:15.480 me, but the truth belongs to everybody. And you know there's nothing I'd do better than sentencing

01:27:21.360 them to more truth. So get excited because tomorrow we will be sentencing Turning Point

01:27:28.620 USA to more truth, which is what they want. More truth and transparency, right? You send an absolute

01:27:34.760 slob to my home to debate me, to disrespect me by not just being honest and forthright about who he

01:27:40.920 wanted to bring here, to violate our rules of no filming where my children play. We drop more truth.

01:27:48.900 that's it that's all when Erica say that that's it that's all anyway that will be tomorrow I am

01:27:58.640 very already late on book club do we have can we do it tomorrow Sky

01:28:02.640 can we just check the calendar I feel like I have what am I doing

01:28:08.220 I think I have I'm doing um Dave Smith's show right

01:28:12.840 that's at noon okay hold on guys i'm i gotta get you on the calendar just give me a second

01:28:19.640 wednesday cannot do

01:28:23.580 yeah but let's do thursday

01:28:29.720 yeah because i think i want to i i um want to pack going away with the husband for uh

01:28:37.580 our anniversary number seven i just casually have a conversation like that right

01:28:42.360 Can I do this?

01:28:44.220 Yeah, I think we should do Thursday.

01:28:49.040 Okay, perfect.

01:28:50.200 All right, you guys.

01:28:51.220 Book Club people, I will see you on Thursday.

01:28:54.120 Get excited, you guys, for tomorrow.

01:28:56.720 I love when the punishment is more truth.

01:28:58.480 Your punishment is more truth, Turning Point USA.

01:29:02.180 We will see you guys then.

01:29:12.360 We'll be right back.

Candace Owens - August 18, 2026

Behind The Scenes Of The Great Debate： TPUSA Is The Biggest Loser. ｜ Ep 376

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