Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - Is the WNBA Ready for Its New Audience？ ft. OutKick Reporter Jackson Thompson

00:00:00.000 well Jackson thank you for joining the Riley Gaines show you have been the most thorough

00:00:09.320 and honest and and quite frankly the most effective I believe sports reporter on the

00:00:16.240 topic of men in women's sports over the past few years uh the latest the WNBA you've been

00:00:23.600 on the ground for a lot of the games can you kind of talk about the environment that you're seeing

00:00:29.600 Is it as bad as people see?

00:00:31.780 What is like the on the ground presence like in the arena, number one, but also outside in these rallies that we've seen in cities all across the country before these fever games?

00:00:41.640 I don't think you could call it bad if it's sports, because really there is some serious energy at every single fever game you go to now.

00:00:49.820 And really, the WNBA, this is prime time for them.

00:00:53.280 I think really the league, maybe they didn't envision it going down like this, but this is their moment.

00:00:58.840 The NFL might be in some trouble because the WNBA playoffs overlap with the start of the NFL season, at least the first few games.

00:01:06.140 And if Caitlin Clark, Sophie Cunningham and the Fever are in the are in the playoffs.

00:01:10.960 And remember, last year they came one game short of the finals and Caitlin and Sophie weren't even there.

00:01:16.540 They're probably going to be there for this one.

00:01:18.460 And they could go pretty far.

00:01:20.100 And we could see something really crazy if the Fever are in the WNBA finals or even deep in the playoffs with the way things have looked in the regular season. 0.99

00:01:27.860 They've almost become like a laughingstock to normal people, normal sports fans, especially, whether it's like the green dildos or the trans non-binary they-them turtle that likes soft tacos. 0.99

00:01:42.540 Do you think they're leaning into this because it's the hill that they're just willing to die on? 1.00

00:01:47.300 You say, look, every time they do something wrong, in a way they're rewarded.

00:01:51.100 You know, their PR staff is not having the easiest time right now, but the league is being rewarded with what it needs.

00:01:56.700 this is a league that needs fans and it needs money and this is a this is a pipeline for them

00:02:01.440 it is giving them attention they would have never seen think about us you and i are here talking

00:02:05.500 about it right now it's true you and i are here talking about the wnba and how crazy it's gotten

00:02:09.880 so really yeah i don't know if i could say all these mistakes are on purpose but through positive

00:02:15.080 reinforcement they keep making them because every time they make them uh you know ka-ching ka-ching

00:02:19.820 ka-ching so they're failing upward that's what i'll say it is they're they're every every time

00:02:24.180 they uh have one of these meltdowns they're the only thing people are talking about on twitter 0.97

00:02:28.920 right they're the only thing people are and when you go on youtube and look up the wnba

00:02:33.520 um i don't know if it's just my algorithm but everything is trans sophie cunningham caitlin

00:02:38.900 clark getting attacked um and uh there's there's just there's an excess of riches uh if they choose

00:02:44.540 to embrace it and there's there they're still not if they're fleeting into it they're still

00:02:49.800 not doing their job completely and they're leaving uh they're leaving a lot of money on the table i

00:02:54.940 think um in terms of the gatekeeping right the gatekeeping in terms of certain media the gate

00:03:00.860 keeping in terms of certain people that they want to make feel welcome um obviously i don't think

00:03:05.760 they're intentionally trying to drive everyone away but they certainly haven't briefed with some

00:03:10.080 of their co-owners and security that hey look let's not alienate some folks who may be coming

00:03:15.380 to their first WNBA game because of a certain reason, because they're here to support a certain

00:03:21.320 player or certain players. Let's account for that. I talked about the NFL, right? I talked about the

00:03:28.720 NFL. And I think the NFL needs to be the baseline for what the WNBA tries to do. The NBA, they 0.98

00:03:36.120 up and down. If it weren't for the Knicks, you see their ratings go down the last few years. If they

00:03:39.880 try and match the NBA's formula, I think they'll fall short. If they try and reach for the stars

00:03:44.860 by trying to channel the NFL's formula,

00:03:48.040 they could do something special.

00:03:49.420 And the NFL doesn't turn anyone away.

00:03:51.560 They don't turn away Philadelphia Eagles fans.

00:03:53.800 And you can't tell me that the average Philadelphia Eagles fan

00:03:57.960 is any better and more well-behaved than a Sophie Cunningham fan

00:04:02.180 who wears an XXXY to the game and sits courtside.

00:04:06.620 Jackson, I've got to tell you, I'm a Philadelphia Eagles fan.

00:04:11.580 But you know what I mean then, right?

00:04:13.680 i do you've seen it you've seen it up close so you're an eagles fan huh i am that's who my dad

00:04:19.040 played for so i guess kind of by naturally that's who that's who we cheer for but i do it is very

00:04:25.840 very true and to your point just even about the gatekeeping and not willing to lean in to what

00:04:32.220 you would have to believe would be an incredibly profitable business-wise thinking from a business

00:04:37.640 perspective moment for the wmba they wouldn't even let uh sophie cunningham or as a league

00:04:43.200 profit off of like the viral pointing meme which was the most viral sports meme that i think we 0.78

00:04:49.980 had seen especially from a female athlete maybe ever in a super duper long time if not ever from

00:04:56.140 a female athlete so yeah it's totally insane here uh but we have to imagine that their hand is going

00:05:03.880 to be forced at some point because of key figures in all of this, uh, men, or I guess I should say

00:05:10.880 women, beautiful, brave, stunning trans women, uh, self-identified, but nonetheless women,

00:05:17.400 because some women can have male genitalia and beards and can also dunk like an S. Cantor 0.97

00:05:24.360 Freedom and Royce White. Uh, what does the current, I guess, transgender policy allow for 0.99

00:05:31.860 in the WNBA? Are they able to? We've seen this discussion happening at large, but what's the 1.00

00:05:37.660 policy when it comes to the WNBA draft and Ennis Cantor Freedom and Royce Wright's eligibility to

00:05:44.480 be potential prospects? That's the big question they can't even answer. They had a meeting about

00:05:49.740 it. A lot of executives in the same room for a decent amount of time, and they didn't have an

00:05:54.160 answer to that question. And they also said, we don't need to give an answer to that question

00:05:57.240 right now. So it goes to show, I think they're digging their feet in the ground and saying,

00:06:02.260 look, whatever is going on outside of our league offices and the circles that have controlled the

00:06:08.480 WNBA for a long time, they're saying what they want doesn't matter, right? Like, yeah, we'll

00:06:13.420 talk about it, but we're not going to make any policy changes just because Enos Kanter and Royce

00:06:18.480 White are saying they're going to play. And really, President Trump might actually be the saving

00:06:23.160 grace for them because the keeping men out of women's sports executive order if it gets to it

00:06:27.520 if it gets to a point where there's something in a courtroom about this that might be the whole 0.98

00:06:30.900 thing they lean on and saying that hey look why would we let them in be the president signed an

00:06:35.620 executive order not to let them in uh and obviously they're a private entity so it's a little different

00:06:40.160 but listen it i think uh i think what enos and royce are doing i think nobody actually wanted

00:06:48.620 to see them play on a WNBA court

00:06:51.120 and be in a locker room with them.

00:06:52.980 What they're doing is giving us a moment

00:06:54.940 to really talk about it.

00:06:56.500 The league is not going to let them in.

00:06:59.700 They're a private entity.

00:07:00.840 They don't have to employ anyone.

00:07:02.800 But really, this whole thing with the story

00:07:04.640 of Enos and then Royce White saying they're going to do it,

00:07:07.640 I mean, the cultural relevance,

00:07:08.960 it's something that Americans can talk

00:07:10.600 to their grandkids about from years on.

00:07:13.560 And hopefully they're talking about it

00:07:14.840 because they're watching the WNBA.

00:07:17.720 They want to learn about the history of the league and the protection of women's sports.

00:07:21.300 But yeah, I don't think we'll see either of them actually anywhere near a WNBA court.

00:07:27.800 Yeah, no, but you are right.

00:07:29.760 What they're doing is delivering just like a masterclass in liberal logic 101.

00:07:37.060 And I think, too, that visual of Ines Cantor Freedom standing courtside, and he's got his like seven foot two wingspan.

00:07:45.720 And he makes the girls, he makes Natasha Cloud and the other women who are on the court look like ants in this.

00:07:51.680 And that's not to, like, you know, say that they're inferior.

00:07:55.120 No, of course, again, it's just highlighting the different physiological, very real physiological advantages that men, on average, possess over women.

00:08:04.860 Certainly a former NBA player would possess over current WNBA players.

00:08:09.960 Now, we've seen where some sources have now come out, I guess, sources close to the WNBA.

00:08:14.280 I don't think this has actually been reported by the WNBA yet, who are confirming that Ines and Royce and any man who self-identifies as a woman would be ineligible.

00:08:25.880 Is there truth to that? Have you found this to be like fact-checked and can be traced back to the WNBA?

00:08:32.900 I'll say this. They have not contacted either Royce. I know they haven't contacted Royce, and I don't believe they've contacted Ines.

00:08:40.200 this was a couple of reports and i'm sure um that's their current plan and i'm sure that

00:08:45.620 there's folks in the league offices that wanted an answer to what happened on sunday night uh with

00:08:50.660 enos and and natasha cloud um so i'm i'm sure there were people in the league offices that

00:08:55.220 decided to you know speak to certain media outlets and say look they're not going to play in the wnba

00:08:59.800 right but right now they haven't contacted at least royce um about that and uh maybe it's

00:09:06.400 they're trying to still keep it a little low-key if they come out the wmba if they come out and say

00:09:12.120 that these two male to female athletes are ineligible but they don't change their policy

00:09:19.860 do you think there are grounds for legal ramifications and for lawsuits potentially from

00:09:27.220 and as in and royce in in royce's case his attorney has already been on twitter all day

00:09:34.160 Which his attorney is Matt Gaetz, isn't it?

00:09:36.000 It's Matt Gaetz, yes, who was supposed to be Trump's attorney general.

00:09:39.020 That makes the whole situation feel even more kind of like a parody, right?

00:09:42.180 Yeah, it's very strange because he was supposed to be attorney general,

00:09:45.400 but maybe this ends up being a more important job in the grand scheme of things.

00:09:48.580 I'm sure that's not the case.

00:09:50.180 But he's on Twitter.

00:09:51.900 He's saying, look, prepare for litigation or something along those lines.

00:09:57.000 I don't know anything out of Enos' camp about anything like that.

00:10:01.140 I don't think he's ever suggested it or talked about it.

00:10:03.380 In Royce's case, his attorney is out there saying it could happen.

00:10:06.540 But we talked about this a little bit earlier.

00:10:09.240 The WNBA is a private entity.

00:10:11.160 They're not necessarily required to employ anyone.

00:10:14.140 They're certainly not required to draft anyone.

00:10:17.900 And President Trump signed an executive order to stop this from happening anyway.

00:10:22.480 So if it gets to a courtroom, I think those are the biggest factors at play here.

00:10:27.460 But listen, if they want to try, go ahead.

00:10:31.440 Go ahead.

00:10:31.880 I'm not complaining.

00:10:32.660 If they want to sue the WNBA, I mean, I mean, we've talked about how, uh, how important the

00:10:38.300 conversation is at least. Right. So, I mean, I'm not here to tell anyone not to sue, but

00:10:41.920 just, you know, let's be realistic about what they could actually achieve.

00:10:45.320 Now you've been covering this for gosh, for years and years now. What, I guess what I should ask

00:10:51.440 you, what was kind of the first time you were made aware of the issue of men or boys competing

00:10:56.360 in women or girls sports? And when was your first like story on it? Well, after Joe Biden was

00:11:04.880 reelected, one of his day one executive orders was an executive order to protect trans people.

00:11:11.260 And part of that was to protect their right to play on a sports team they identify with.

00:11:19.520 The thing about the trans issue is it used to be a very tongue in cheek thing.

00:11:25.360 It was the teacher from South Park, right? 0.90

00:11:27.540 There was folks out there who did it.

00:11:29.840 And then it got to a point somewhere in this century

00:11:32.740 where it became a little bit more wide-ranging than that.

00:11:37.660 And I remember reading the news of that executive order.

00:11:40.020 One of the reasons I came to Fox was because I've recognized

00:11:43.540 that this issue is now the issue, I think, really,

00:11:47.120 to write about if you're a sports journalist at that time.

00:11:50.220 Because it was a moment in history.

00:11:51.900 It was more than just X's and O's.

00:11:53.460 and when i came to fox uh the olympics happened obviously there was some more disputed uh

00:12:01.160 discussion about imani khalif and what imani khalif was um but it was a fascinating story

00:12:07.860 the entire world watched and the entire world was appalled by what they were seeing maybe not

00:12:12.000 everyone but a good amount of people across the world did not like what they saw that day um when

00:12:16.960 Imani Khalif decided to, uh, get in the ring with Angela Carini.

00:12:22.800 And won a gold medal for it. 0.99

00:12:25.340 Yeah.

00:12:25.740 And not just Angela Carini.

00:12:27.020 And it wasn't just Imani Khalif in that Olympics either.

00:12:29.340 There was Lin Yu Tang.

00:12:31.540 Um, and then the first time I ever interviewed someone about this topic, uh, was actually

00:12:37.260 Brooks Lusser right around the time that, uh, situation started.

00:12:41.840 Um, and, uh, she was received a, a threat in her inbox, not her inbox, a teammate's inbox.

00:12:48.240 Um, and that ended up becoming a very deep story later on.

00:12:53.060 Um, and even still ongoing, um, of course you're referring to what's happening at San

00:12:58.360 Jose state university.

00:13:00.160 And I think one of the things that differs in this, um, situation, or maybe doesn't differ,

00:13:05.900 but at least has been highlighted, uh, very clear for the public to see is how the university,

00:13:10.820 uh i mean they knew that he was a man of course um and they they covered it they made this entirely

00:13:18.700 like they fraudulently went about this in a way to conceal his sex and in the process totally

00:13:25.440 violating the rights of the girls in in locker rooms and overnight accommodations in their their

00:13:31.900 apartment or their dorm room that they lived in and these girls in the way that you've been able

00:13:36.240 to talk with them that has then been published is they discuss how they felt so violated and betrayed

00:13:43.220 and lied to by their university. And like I said, it's still ongoing. These girls are suing

00:13:49.960 the Mountain West Conference. And I can tell you just based on talking to them that they're so 0.93

00:13:55.160 appreciative of you, for you, for ultimately giving them a voice on a large national platform.

00:14:03.180 mm-hmm so i'm just doing my job but i appreciate them uh for what they did right because what they

00:14:09.420 did was much harder and you know when i talked to brooke that night uh and she told me that you

00:14:14.880 know my teammate was told that uh i should be you know aware for my safety tomorrow um it made me

00:14:21.000 realize that wow there's really serious stuff going on in this realm and uh the only way to

00:14:27.460 really protect them is to make sure the public expects them to be protected. And that's exactly

00:14:33.500 what happened when President Trump got into office and he signed that executive order.

00:14:37.760 It's not been fully carried out yet, but in the grand scheme of things, this was really the only

00:14:44.200 way in order to make sure this issue was addressed. And you know that from what you went through

00:14:48.280 many years ago, right? And that's another big reason why I'm here doing what I'm doing.

00:14:52.860 um and hopefully the people at the wnba will learn a little bit more about all that as well

00:14:57.600 one way or the other do you think that it's necessary for nba commissioner adam silver to

00:15:04.940 get involved in this because again at the end of the day even still you i have to imagine with

00:15:11.180 um the increased viewership and and i guess ratings of the wnba maybe not ratings but

00:15:17.940 certainly viewership over the past year or so since they've really leaned into to all the

00:15:24.780 wokeness or at least it's been highlighted that they have they still have to subsidize from the

00:15:31.000 nba do you think he gets involved nba commissioner in taking appropriate action whether it's against

00:15:37.580 the wmba commissioner kathy engelbert or or even more broadly as a league is that a possibility

00:15:43.780 even? It will be very interesting to see if Kathy Engelbert is brought back as WNBA commissioner

00:15:49.720 next year. And we just talked about what happens if the Fever make the playoffs and go to the finals

00:15:54.760 and the WNBA outperforms the NFL. I mean, can you really, in good faith, get rid of that commissioner?

00:16:01.620 Right. The answer is yes. Right. Like we keep talking about the NBA, the WNBA private entities,

00:16:06.760 they can do whatever they want. And even if they get to, uh, the finals, I mean, I'll say this

00:16:13.820 about the whole situation with the protests and with the players, um, and their interactions with

00:16:18.960 each other. Uh, nothing has got to the point yet where I believe it's so much of a crisis that

00:16:24.920 Kathy Engelbert, they would have to remove her, whether she should or not be removed is not for

00:16:28.400 me to say, but really they've kept things under control to a certain extent. They haven't made

00:16:34.080 it easy on themselves they certainly haven't been perfect but nothing has got to the point where

00:16:38.180 we're like oh man that's really unfortunate that just happened right it's just things here and

00:16:42.660 there and and really i think the best case scenario for the wnba um would be to maybe uh explore what

00:16:50.140 the options are with the commissioner regardless of what happens but certainly not get to a point

00:16:53.900 where she must be removed even with all the growth we're having um but yet adam silver he's going to

00:16:58.700 be in a position of power he's going to be in a position of power to uh to make that determination

00:17:02.600 and decide what happens next um but for now if everything stays the course it would be a little

00:17:07.720 surprising um if uh kathy engelbert is removed unless something unexpectedly bad happens which

00:17:15.040 i don't i don't think it will no you know what it's a good point you make and i i actually think

00:17:20.120 that the biggest blunder that we have seen from the wmba and kathy engelbert specifically over

00:17:25.000 the past few years or at least over the past 12 months again in talking about this issue

00:17:29.920 is actually the fixed betting scandal that we saw with Angel Reese and Paige Buchers that was posted

00:17:37.240 to the WNBA page. I think that was at least legally the biggest blunder that we have seen

00:17:42.760 from the WNBA that ultimately could, I think, have lasting implications on who the commissioner

00:17:48.760 is. That to me was crazy that this happened and that it was posted and someone looked at it,

00:17:56.900 filmed it edited it wrote the caption clicked posts and at no point saw a problem in what was

00:18:03.700 being posted that was crazy yeah and they have they have sophie cunningham to thank for that

00:18:08.040 because imagine if the protests and and what it was going on wasn't going on and that was the only

00:18:13.020 big story coming out of the wnba that's their two golden girls page and angel right they can't have

00:18:17.240 them being in trouble but look they came out and said it was a joke um and no one else has uh looked

00:18:22.800 into it too much because there's just too much stuff going on with Sophie Knight and the coaches

00:18:27.100 and what they think the players what they think and uh yeah it really kind of saved them from a

00:18:31.100 bigger issue well I I think you're totally right I think they should be thanking Sophie although I

00:18:36.000 don't expect to see that anytime soon so what's what's kind of next on the docket for you and for

00:18:42.180 the WNBA um we know that it kind of uh before postseason this is like the the over the next

00:18:49.200 week is the last real games before postseason what what do you think things look like we talked

00:18:55.140 about fever potentially being in the final um and for you personally what what are the next few weeks

00:19:00.260 look like the wnva uh they have one more week before the fibo world cup uh women's basketball

00:19:07.540 world cup break the fever have one more game on friday night um you'll be there correct i will

00:19:12.420 i will be there yeah that's so that's their last game before the break um they're playing the sun

00:19:17.560 right uh you know we'll see how good of a game it is if anything comes out of it that's next for me

00:19:22.900 i'm going to be keeping my eye on that game and uh i'm going to be uh keeping my eye on the FIBA

00:19:28.260 World Cup um that'll be big because it'll be the first time we see Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark on

00:19:33.320 the same team in a big game together they played in the qualifiers a little bit but we remember

00:19:37.440 what happened in 2023 and when it comes to Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark in big games doesn't get

00:19:42.180 any bigger than the world they're going to be playing they're going to be representing the

00:19:46.060 u.s against china in their first game um that's a big rivalry that they those two teams have a

00:19:51.680 history in women's basketball as they do in other things and then they're going to be trying to make

00:19:57.240 sure they uh they win the whole thing because if they don't win the whole thing that's just not

00:20:01.120 what's expected of the team usa women's basketball team let's predict when they sing the national

00:20:08.040 anthem will most of the players have their their hand over their heart

00:20:13.160 i think they will i think they will because this is a the women's world cup this is the team you're

00:20:21.560 on um maybe a couple players don't right i don't think the coaches want that maybe they do maybe

00:20:31.000 they do maybe they want none of them to do it i don't think they will i think this is the women's

00:20:34.600 world cup this is team usa it's it's it's bigger than anyone's opinion right you're supposed to be

00:20:39.500 the best team in the world so you should represent your country we're gonna come back to this clip

00:20:44.260 and we're gonna see if we're if we're right here um well jackson i appreciate you thank you again

00:20:51.020 for for more broadly covering this issue uh your work um as it pertains to the wmba the woke

00:20:57.880 national basketball association um we're super duper appreciative of you thank you appreciate

00:21:03.880 you thank you guys for watching the riley gain show you can subscribe right here we have new

00:21:10.300 episodes every single tuesday and friday at 10 a.m eastern time and we are covering everything from

00:21:15.300 pop culture to politics to deep dives to motherhood and sports all of that and more we want to hear

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Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - August 26, 2026

Is the WNBA Ready for Its New Audience？ ft. OutKick Reporter Jackson Thompson

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