00:01:06.420some fan code of conduct type language in this letter.
00:01:10.440But in respect to the conversation of eligibility
00:01:13.680and if Ennis Cantor Freedom is able to,
00:01:16.180to be eligible for the 2027 WNBA draft,
00:01:19.680which is, he has pledged to do just that.
00:01:22.520The WNBA says here, with respect to your questions regarding eligibility, only women are eligible to play in the WNBA.
00:01:28.620And the individuals you cite in your letter are both men, referring to Ennis Cantor Freedom and Royce White, or Roysha White, as he chooses to go by now because he declares himself to be a woman.
00:01:40.240So, Jen, all that to say, is the WNBA openly transphobic now?
00:01:45.960Well, seemingly, they think they get to decide who a woman is, even though the entire movement, the whole gender ideology movement is, if you think you are a woman, you are.
00:01:57.680So none of it makes any sense. But as you and I have discussed, the whole ideology is so filled with logicals that I guess I don't expect it to make sense at any point.
00:02:07.600But it does seem that the WNBA has declared that neither Royce nor Ennis are women and only women can play in the WNBA, but they have not defined what woman is. So it's, they don't seem to see the hypocrisy in it.
00:02:25.180How do they not? How do they not? Because how how would you say that Ennis and Royce aren't women, even though they they declare themselves to be like, I guess I just there's still so much up in the air about what are the actual qualifications to the WNBA and the WNBA's eyes of being a woman?
00:02:45.120We know nothing beyond they just you just have to be a woman.
00:02:48.440They say so. And you just have to say it. But not you, too. You can't say it.
00:02:52.600Anyone else can say it. Basically, if you line up with our politics and you declare yourself a woman, you're a woman.
00:02:58.100If you don't line up with your politics, we get to decide who a woman is.
00:03:02.100That seems to be the rule, the unspoken rule. But again, none of the ideology makes any sense.
00:03:09.300So I guess I couldn't expect them to make sense now.
00:03:12.660Did you think with Kathy Engelbert obviously resigning or maybe retiring after this year, did you feel like things on this topic would change? Obviously, it's going to take time with a new commissioner. Do you have hope that they will implement a commissioner who is stronger on this topic, who will be more immersive in fan experience, even when those fans happen to be conservatives and supporters of Kaley Clark and Sophie Cunningham?
00:03:40.920Like, like what, what's kind of the field there?
00:03:43.660You know, Riley, I used to think, and I don't know, maybe you thought this too, that there
00:03:47.540would be sort of like a watershed moment where everything pivots and changes, not just in
00:04:06.000All she talked about was little girls deserving privacy and fairness in sports.
00:04:09.560I thought that would be a watershed moment, especially since, you know, in that whole process, I think she's gained like 2 million, 3 million followers. She didn't lose endorsements. She gained them. So if pro athletes, you know, knew the truth, but were afraid that they would lose money opportunities, I thought this would be the proof point, right? Sophie didn't. She gained popularity. She gained endorsements. And it is important to note, not a single woman has followed her. Not one. I'm not even talking about the WNBA. I'm talking about a pro athlete or Olympic level athlete.
00:04:39.000No one has followed suit. I thought it would be a moment where people would, and they haven't. I thought the IOC making a rule back in, was it February? I'm losing track of all the dates. It was this past January, February, I think, would, you know, prompt all the governing bodies to follow suit.
00:04:55.800it's the biggest governing body there is. It's the most important. It didn't prompt that. And so
00:05:00.600I guess where I sit is there is not going to be a watershed moment. This is going to be a long,
00:05:07.880very difficult climb for those of us who are willing to put ourselves out there. And we will
00:05:13.180have little wins and slowly but surely we will, you know, bring people over to our side who are
00:05:18.220less afraid to speak, but it's not going to be this thing where it's slow and then all at once,
00:05:23.460it's going to be slow and then it's going to be slow. And then it's going to be slow.
00:05:26.360We'll win because the truth always wins, but we got to really steal ourselves for this fight
00:05:31.960because I don't think they're going to go quietly into the night.
00:05:36.140You know, we did see Coco Gauff. It was like a very, actually, to be fair,
00:05:42.260she pretty much said the same thing that Sophie Cunningham did.
00:05:44.800I want to lead with love. I want to, you know, prioritize inclusion,
00:05:50.120but not at the expense of fairness and safety type of thing.
00:05:53.000She included much more buzzwords than Sophie Cunningham did,
00:05:56.340but she didn't receive nearly the response or the backlash,
00:05:59.780certainly not online, that Sophie did.
00:06:02.580You wonder, okay, is it because, again, how she approached it maybe?
00:06:19.020We just haven't seen this, like, influx of athletes who are willing, specifically female athletes, currently playing professional sports who are willing to take the stance that Sophie did.
00:06:33.740I mean, you referenced tennis. The WTA, obviously, a very important governing body. World Tennis Association sets all the rules for women's tennis in the world. Around the same time Sophie made her comments in ESPN magazine, although she made them many months ago, but around the same time they were published and there was all the, you know, celebrating at these WNBA games that you and I attended.
00:06:56.680uh we attended one together um the wta had a press conference announcing that they were going
00:07:02.420to test for sex and every single player including coco goff but also including
00:07:06.520sabalenka who at the time was ranked number one said we support this rule and it didn't really
00:07:12.420cause any sort of dust up or kerfuffle i haven't seen those i think the girls want it the girls
00:07:18.560actually i think appreciate the sex verification testing or the sry gene screening they totally
00:07:25.660want it but I mean the people didn't really push back on them like it didn't get a lot of
00:07:31.040attention really right I mean it was a little bit lost in the WNBA shuffle I think but like
00:07:37.500if you want to talk about a ranking athlete Sabalenka saying unequivocally
00:07:43.580I support this she didn't hedge like Coco Goff she said it point blank and she was the number
00:07:51.060one tennis player in the world now I think she's ranked number two but like literally
00:07:54.200the best athlete in her sport in the world said, I support sex testing. And it kind of passed
00:07:59.800without notice, which again, you would think, okay, more athletes will say this. Nobody, you
00:08:04.120know, came down on her and yet they haven't. And I think the WNBA is going to be the most resistant
00:08:09.960because I think this league is the most political of any sport. You, um, you would know better than
00:08:16.920anyone bar maybe the players themselves, because you've been to so many games now. Um, you just
00:08:21.860went to um a game in san francisco right you were in san francisco um first actually let me read you
00:08:30.180this in this letter sent by kathy engelbert to congress these congressional members um this is
00:08:36.260what it says about the wmba fan code of conduct which this is important to you for several reasons
00:08:41.740okay it says fans in the wmba arenas are governed by the wmba fan code of conduct which among other
00:08:47.520things requires that they enjoy the basketball experience free from disruptive behavior fans
00:08:52.400that do not adhere to this code of conduct are subject to among other things ejection from the
00:08:56.460premises as in the case of on-court rules enforcement the league and its teams seek
00:09:00.220to apply the code of conduct consistently all right put a wedge in that now let's watch a
00:09:05.200video of you at the game in san francisco just last week
00:09:34.100was this the mood of everyone there and also
00:09:36.720the woman who told you to effing kill yourself um she looks crazed she looks crazy she does not look
00:09:44.780okay like to the point where you almost kind of pity her and i would guarantee you she has one
00:09:50.560of those picket fence signs in her yard that says no hate here no hate found here or whatever
00:09:57.340yeah and she's telling you to kill yourself what was kind of the mood of this and what prompted
00:10:02.420you guys being escorted up the stairs? Yes. So I first of all want to say I lived in San Francisco
00:10:09.080for over 30 years and I left because of COVID restrictions. And I faced similar harassment on
00:10:18.160the streets of San Francisco during COVID. If I would go outside with my four-year-old daughter
00:10:22.620and not wear a mask, people would recognize me because I was advocating for open schools. They
00:10:28.200would chase me down the street and get in my face just like that lady and say very similar
00:10:32.280things, uh, but more related to hoping my children die. So this was a little traumatic for me because
00:10:37.580it brought back, uh, I mean, I'm laughing, but not really. Um, and people like to say, you know,
00:10:42.680the internet's not real life. Twitter's not real life. This was like a real life Twitter pile on,
00:10:48.400but with actual humans pointing in your face and spitting at you and calling you names and
00:10:52.320wishing you death. So in some ways the internet is real life. All those claiming to be morally
00:10:56.340superior mind you i know so what happened was i went with three friends we were sitting pretty
00:11:03.060close uh we were wearing our logo tee and for the first half riley we were getting along with
00:11:08.060everybody around us for the most part right like we had two young asian women to our right they
00:11:12.420were asking us what the shirts meant they didn't really say anything an older black couple on my
00:11:16.860left they were chatting with us they asked if i was part of a track club which is funny um there
00:11:23.320was a group of middle-aged white women in front of us they were a little more angry but they even
00:11:28.240just left it alone like they they looked at us and they said are you inclusive and we said we're
00:11:32.320inclusive of women we think the league is for women but they just dropped it they didn't really
00:11:36.300make a stink of it we were there to have fun and enjoy the game and it wasn't until the end of the
00:11:41.580set first half when we actually got on the jumbotron which you and i know oh when the camera
00:11:47.100has yes when the camera has cut to us in the in the past you and i he skipped us on purpose well
00:11:53.280all four of us were on the Jumbotron with our logos, which you can kind of see from space,
00:11:59.440the color combo, how big the logo is. So that is what enraged a woman with a mask and a beard
00:12:05.500who was like across the aisle from us. And she stood up because she saw us up there. She did
00:12:11.520not like it. That was a provocation in her mind. And all we were doing was trying to get on like
00:12:16.660everybody else. Like everyone in the arena is trying to get on. Like that's what you do. It's
00:12:20.020fun right so she stands up and she starts waving to security and pointing at us i can't tell what
00:12:25.760she's saying i posted that video too and the security comes and they take her out they march
00:12:32.900her up the stairs and so i'm like the worm has turned she is getting you know questioned or
00:12:39.580punished for this but then she came right back i think they just took her out to a quieter space
00:12:43.300to find out what happened then they came and pointed at us the four of us and marched us out
00:12:47.740into the hall they said that woman claims you're antagonizing people with your shirts and that
00:12:53.600you're pointing at your shirts which again is what every single person in the arena was doing
00:12:57.800to get on the jumbotron they didn't give us any guidance as i was walking up the stairs that video
00:13:03.160is mine walking up the stairs there were about five people before that woman who did the same
00:13:07.660thing but i didn't whip my phone out until i got to her so she was not alone there were a bunch of
00:13:13.920others on the way up all saying the same thing you should kill yourself I wish you would die
00:13:18.120you're disgusting lots of expletives so we get up to the top they say don't antagonize people we
00:13:23.440said we're not we're just wearing shirts and he said okay go back to your seats and he escorted
00:13:27.060us back at that point the mob descended because they had been alerted to our presence and she
00:13:32.640had riled them up and so then magpies to a yes exactly so everybody was yelling at us at that
00:13:39.760point for like the whole second half of the game, which made it not very pleasant. And it was so bad
00:13:45.160that security said, we're going to give you an escort out. We think you need one. So when the
00:13:49.600game ended, security came back and they escorted us out of the building and everybody was screaming
00:13:55.200at us in the hall saying similar things. And then they let us go into the light. We were like, oh
00:14:00.160goodness, what's going to happen now as we just walked down the street? And it continued as we
00:14:04.540walked down the street. Although I will say this, as we walked down the street, a couple people said
00:14:08.600they agreed even in san francisco so it's just san francisco is like its own thing it's it's they
00:14:15.980are so whipped up into a frenzy they feel so righteous there's no logic it's just they're so
00:14:23.040convinced of their own moral righteousness and social justice warrior-ness that it it justifies
00:14:29.920any horrific behavior because you and i have never said anything like that to anyone i don't even
00:14:37.380think things like that like it's one thing to think it and still not say it but my mind
00:14:42.740the people I disagree with the people who I mean admittedly I probably don't like I wouldn't
00:14:47.760necessarily be friends with um I would just never even think to tell them or or that I would hope
00:14:55.340that they would kill themselves like who no how could you say that as a decent person like I my
00:15:01.100mind would never go there i wouldn't say it to somebody who wore a swastika to the game which is
00:15:08.080a crazy thing to say but i wouldn't even say it to that person i would avoid them um i wouldn't
00:15:13.440want to talk with them i would never wish ill on anyone and in fact you know people like the woman
00:15:20.120who pointed us out and screamed at us who seemed quite obviously to be on testosterone and to be
00:15:24.300you know, trans identified herself. I hope she can figure her stuff out without harming her body
00:15:31.340too much. I actually feel bad for her. You know, the man you and I encountered in Minneapolis,
00:15:36.860when we went to a game together, I encountered him again at another game. And I, I was angered
00:15:42.840the first time because he said such awful things. The second time, I just felt really sorry for him.
00:15:46.980I really did. He's clearly unwell. He told us he'd just gotten out of rehab four days before.
00:15:52.420I mean, this is an unwell person. How could I wish ill upon him? You know, even though his behaviors are disgraceful. So I'll never understand it. It was the same during COVID while I was in San Francisco. It was awful. But I think to come back to your letter, the Ennis letter, I don't know how that fan behavior is in keeping with their guidelines.
00:16:15.880Yeah, that's true. How was she able to stay there after telling you? Well, if we're looking again at the letter, it says the code of conduct is to enjoy the basketball experience free from disruptive behavior.
00:16:31.060Your shirt that merely said XXXY, a biological truth, a truth we have known to be true since
00:16:38.700the very beginning of time, that's more disruptive than a woman, I mean, incessantly giving you the
00:16:45.020middle finger and telling you to effing kill yourself. Yeah, I did not enjoy my experience
00:16:50.760of truth be told. I was fine in the moment. I didn't feel in danger. You know, we had security
00:16:56.680with us i was with three other women one who is always ready women right all three lesbian except
00:17:02.580me as the only non-lesbian um one black um three of us white one older the rest of us kind of
00:17:10.400middle-aged um yeah i it was not enjoyable i was fine the whole time we went to a restaurant after
00:17:17.900people were yelling at us there too i was fine the whole day i flew home that night and i will
00:17:22.500tell you the day after I was really exhausted and sad. I just felt sad. I'm sure you can understand
00:17:28.000this. I thought about you a lot at SF state and how draining that is emotionally. Um, and you
00:17:34.540have moments where you're like, can I keep doing this? Like you do. I mean, it's a human reaction
00:17:40.460to fear for your life because I mean, they're telling you what they want to do, kill you or
00:17:45.320you kill yourself. And we know that there's people deranged enough who, who act on these impulses.
00:17:50.580And so I don't think it's an exaggeration at all to say you fear for your life in those, in those. I mean, I, I do. I'll just be totally honest. You, you have to, especially everything after Charlie Kirk, like it just feels like nothing is off limits. Nothing is like too far out of reach to, to imagine it could happen to you. So it is, it's draining. It's scary.
00:18:11.340Yeah, in the moment, I didn't, because I think you're sort of in a fight or flight mode.
00:18:35.920And the only thing that normalizes saying a totally normal thing is being visible. I'm taking a cue from the left, right? They have all their days of visibility. Well, we think this totally normal thing and I'm not going to be chased into the closet out of fear because we're the normal ones and no one's going to vote for these ballot initiatives in Colorado or Washington.
00:18:57.380no one's going to stand up and wear the shirt. No one's going to stand up for their daughter if
00:19:01.080there's not somebody out there going first and saying it's okay to say it. So that leaves,
00:19:06.200you know, you and me and thousands of other women who are doing it too, and who have been doing it
00:19:10.300for a really long time. I mean, I can only imagine how tired, you know, the women who've been doing
00:19:14.680this since 2016 are, but I think it's on us. It just is too. And you're right about saying the
00:19:21.960thing, wearing the thing. I've got my new XXXY here. I'm going to move my microphone so you can
00:19:27.360see it everyone on youtube.com i hope you're watching you can use my code rileyg20 and it
00:19:31.980will get you some money off at the truthfits.com or xxxyathletics.com but look first of all this
00:19:38.140color um so pretty yeah it's like this beautiful like wine cabernet merlot color gold metallic
00:19:45.140shiny perfect the inside fleece it's a great christmas gift everyone should wear it this is
00:19:49.680how you this is how you change the culture it is i i have said this from the beginning your body is
00:19:55.100your best form of real estate. It's a billboard where your beliefs loud and proud. Jen, you're
00:20:01.040going to more games, right? I am. I dusted myself off and I decided I would do it again. So I am
00:20:08.840going to go to Atlanta on Saturday. It will be game four. We know it's going, well, it would
00:20:14.060have gone to game four anyway, because there's seven games in the final. I think Atlanta will
00:20:18.060be a little bit better, maybe a little friendlier. And I am going to take a woman. Her name is Casey
00:20:26.020Thomason. She was told at a prior game during overtime that she needed to cover her shirt
00:20:31.880because it was XXXY. And she did because she wanted to see the last two minutes of overtime,
00:20:35.940but we're not going to cover our shirts. That's the main thing. And we're going to wear
00:20:38.980the red, white, and blue logo tee in honor of patriotism and the national anthem. And we are
00:20:45.340going to stand for the anthem and we'll be there. We're going to go. Me and Casey.
00:20:50.020What do you make of all the players who aren't? I don't know. I feel like maybe I have like a pretty,
00:20:57.280obviously a big believer of the first amendment and the ability and the right and the freedom to
00:21:01.800be able to protest things you don't like. Of course, I believe in that, but I just feel like
00:21:05.500there's something so sacred about the American flag and what it represents. Even if you don't
00:21:10.380like the current administration. That's not who the flag is representing. It represents unity.
00:21:15.840It represents justice. It represents freedom. It represents the people who fought for the flag and
00:21:20.340the freedoms that we have. And so I have a pretty, well, I don't think it's radical, but maybe some
00:21:25.780people would consider it to be. But my belief is if you don't stand for the flag or for what the
00:21:31.040flag represents, then I don't think you should represent the United States of America at the
00:21:36.500olympics or any i don't think you should represent team usa in any capacity that's just my personal
00:21:41.440belief again i'm a staunch believer in the first amendment if people don't want to stand for it
00:21:45.060whatever of course we can't make them but that's how i feel so so what was like the the feel
00:21:50.600watching the women uh in the arena they support it i mean honestly it got little notice i have to
00:21:57.900be honest in the arena people didn't care uh people in the audience don't really stand up
00:24:07.460And yeah, to your point, prior to, I guess, kind of being immersed in the WNBA as we have been now, I mean, admittedly, I was a Caitlin Clark fan, sure.
00:24:17.460But I wasn't necessarily a women's basketball fan because you see the spoof videos online and it makes it feel like a joke league, right?
00:24:27.120and if that's all you know about it um but being there the first game we went to well the first
00:24:32.340game i went to with you in minneapolis oh my gosh there was like what 15 000 people there
00:24:37.500everyone was so energized it was a high scoring game yeah the fever or i think the the um the
00:24:43.320links that they scored over 100 point like it was such a good fun game i was like wait
00:24:47.020i really like like why am i nervous i was nervous like i don't know it felt like i was competing so
00:24:52.120there is something about especially being there that creates a fan um yeah so well i think the
00:24:58.660valkyries which is the san francisco team it's only two years old is my understanding and i will
00:25:05.800say that stadium is 18 000 people that's where they play every time it's a new stadium it's called
00:25:10.540chase arena that's where the warriors play and san francisco loves their warriors as you know
00:25:14.540um and it was packed and everyone was in lavender that's the colors of the team i mean it and
00:25:22.260everyone i know that lives there who i was at the game with said it is a force that has taken the
00:25:26.700city by storm like people are swept up with this team i think that's really neat that people are
00:25:30.700supporting women's sports that's why i'm going i want to support women's sports i always see lots
00:25:35.220of women at the games with that t-shirt that says everyone watches women's sports and it's very
00:25:40.120woke coded that t-shirt. So I support women's sports. I'm going to go to the games. I'm not
00:25:44.980just going to go to game four of the WNBA finals. I'm going to the NWSL finals and you're invited
00:25:49.300to come with me. That's the national women's soccer league. I'm going to go to the WTA finals.
00:25:53.720I love women's sports and female athletes. And so I'm going to put my money where my mouth is,
00:25:58.960but they're not marketing themselves. Well, there's all time high interest in the league.
00:26:03.900And yet somehow they can't drive the viewers when Clark isn't playing.
00:26:07.720Yeah. Well, they're definitely doing something wrong. They're doing many things wrong. But hopefully, I don't know. You're right. I don't know when the change will be, what the change will be, who will be the one driving it. But there's got to be something.
00:26:26.120Again, if the goal is to be a profitable business, which, I mean, that's what they should strive to be, yes, a successful sports league, of course, but a business at the end of the day, I mean, they are, they need to lean in to the things that the fans want and appreciate.
00:26:44.200Yes. The idea, I'll do my like brand marketing hat for a second. When you're creating a brand
00:26:50.520proposition, you want to find the highest common denominator that brings the most people together
00:26:55.480to be invited into your brand. That would be a love of women's basketball and female athletes.
00:27:01.080And yet what they seem to lead with, at least the players on the court in the stadium, is their
00:27:06.700leftist politics and agenda. That is not a unifying brand position. There are a lot of
00:27:13.040fans who aren't Democrats or leftists. There are a lot of fans who are centrist or conservative.
00:27:19.900Like, why can't we go and enjoy the game too? We should be able to. It's like, why do you want to
00:27:24.100leave out half your customer base? And yet they seem to not care. And that is a recipe for a
00:27:30.460business that will fail. Republicans buy sneakers too. Exactly. And watch basketball. Yes. Yes.
00:27:37.400You're the best, Jen. I always appreciate you. Thanks for all that you do. Thanks for,
00:27:40.920thanks for putting your money where your mouth is, because there are a lot of people on the right
00:27:45.460who I think have taken up this cause, um, I think to capitalize on the issue. And I don't think
00:27:51.000there's necessarily anything wrong with that because so long as the other side continues to
00:27:54.880be as horrible as they have been, I think it's worth capitalizing on, but I don't think they
00:28:00.840actually care about women's sports. And so to have people who, I mean, who are willing to,
00:28:06.940to show up and support and to, to do more than just, you know, create a stink. Not that we're
00:28:14.500the ones creating the stink. It is the other side that has made this an issue. It could have been
00:28:18.640solved years ago. Uh, never even had to happen for, for that matter. Anyways, um, thanks for
00:28:24.300doing what you do. Well, how the, how the, that the other side could claim that you and I don't
00:28:29.480care about women's sports, two elite female athletes in our day, you know, I was an elite
00:28:35.580gymnast. You were an elite level swimmer. Like, of course we care about women's sports. It's such
00:28:39.760a dumb, provably false thing to say. So I'm just going to keep going. I'll, I'll take a rest in
00:28:45.380between after being harassed and bullied, but, um, I'm going to keep going and you're always
00:28:49.760invited to come with me. Well, stay strong. I'm always in your corner. So thanks, Jen.
00:28:53.680Thanks. Thanks to you, Riley. We love you.
00:29:00.180Thank you guys for watching the Riley Gaines show. You can subscribe right here. Uh, we have
00:29:04.340new episodes every single tuesday and friday at 10 a.m eastern time and we are covering everything
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