00:01:12.780Yeah, so it was almost exactly a year ago today
00:01:15.600that our daughter came home from school.
00:01:18.760She was in the first grade at the time, six years old,
00:01:21.120and just really upset and not really knowing
00:01:24.440how to articulate what was making her upset.
00:01:26.680so after you know my husband and I pressed her a little bit about what was going on to make her
00:01:33.080feel so uncomfortable at school what she told us was very concerning although I'm not sure we
00:01:40.160realized it at the time how concerning she said that she was uncomfortable with a little boy in
00:01:45.360her class that he was following her into the bathroom and he was doing some things in class
00:01:51.980that made her comfortable as far as his behavior so i imagine my little daughter she's almost one
00:01:59.120um i can't even fathom kind of the feelings that you feel as a parent as a mom i would say probably
00:02:05.100especially as a dad when your little girl comes home and you can tell something's not right but
00:02:11.820again you're six years old you don't really know how to communicate adequately your feelings
00:02:15.980i can only imagine the feelings that you felt when she expressed to you that a little boy was
00:02:21.660following her into the bathroom how did you initially handle that conversation with her
00:02:27.800and what were the next steps that you took i guess with the administration to to really find out
00:02:33.340exactly what was going on yeah so yes it was very hard for her to articulate she mentioned a few
00:02:40.160times she didn't want to be in trouble um and she also mentioned that she didn't even know how to
00:02:45.320tell us what was bothering her so you know after we asked a few questions that's when she kindly
00:02:50.620was was able to tell us what was going on that was making her uncomfortable so initially I thought
00:02:56.980that there must have been some mistake I thought there's no way her teacher's sending a little boy
00:03:03.120into her bathroom she's six years old maybe she doesn't understand or or maybe the teacher doesn't
00:03:08.940know so let me make an appointment we told her we're going to go talk to your teacher and we're
00:03:13.940going to figure this out you know and as far as his behavior goes this little boy in the class
00:03:18.740I think the approach we took were, like, we need to probably report it so that the school is then able to do whatever they need to do to make sure that the child is okay and being taken care of.
00:03:28.540So when we went into that meeting, it was more like, hey, do you know that this is happening so that we could take care of both children involved?
00:03:36.120But what we were met with was a very different response than what I expected.
00:03:41.500The teacher would not talk to us, and I don't think it was in a mean way.
00:03:46.480I think the teacher was very scared of what she could and couldn't share with us and so the
00:03:51.640principal was called in almost immediately and it was then that the principal told us that they knew
00:03:58.760they knew the little boy was going into the girls bathroom that he had a gender support plan and so
00:04:04.260meaning the school the parents everyone was transitioning the six-year-old little boy
00:04:08.720and they were six years old they were aware of what was happening and so then my response or
00:04:14.880our response my husband and i was well why didn't we know does it did it feel like at the time the
00:04:21.800teacher had almost been coached or advised not to say anything i'm not sure if it was that she
00:04:28.860was coached but definitely that they have scared teachers into silence so whether or not these
00:04:36.540teachers agree with what's happening. And in this case, I feel like she didn't. She was fearful for
00:04:44.700her job. And so, because she even said it to us, she said, I don't know what I can and can't say.
00:04:50.280So I'm just going to call in the principal right away. Wow. Okay. When you hear the phrase gender
00:04:55.960support plan, I mean, if again, as someone who's been kind of immersed in this issue for several
00:05:01.820years now, I still don't even know what a gender support plan would necessarily encompass,
00:05:07.500especially for a six-year-old. So, I mean, I imagine you had questions of like, what is this?
00:05:14.220What does this mean? You just said it. Why? Okay, this child has this. That's one thing,
00:05:19.140but why weren't other parents, parents to little girls or to, I mean, classmates in general,
00:05:24.920why weren't we alerted of this? And is this something that potentially my daughter could
00:05:29.060have in place without my knowledge. So then kind of what was your recourse or the questions that
00:05:33.520you asked when you found out about this gender support plan? So I asked the principal, why didn't
00:05:38.680we know? So that we could have put boundaries around our daughter that we felt were appropriate
00:05:43.220for her age to keep her safe, had maybe conversations with her that we weren't planning
00:05:49.440on having so early, being that she's six. We could have been proactive. I could have removed her from
00:05:55.100the bathroom I could have taken her out of the class I would have had choices with you know
00:06:00.340information right informed decisions I could have had it made an informed decision had they just
00:06:05.500been transparent but I was told at that point that it was none of my business it was none of my
00:06:10.440business where this other child was going to the bathroom whether or not it affected our daughter
00:06:14.480so that just didn't sit well so I told the principal what's next who's next who do I need
00:06:20.400to talk to like I want to know more about this gender support plan and what that all entails
00:06:25.560so then the next day they sent us to a woman who's a wellness coordinator for the district
00:06:32.320which I had no idea what that even was still don't really know and so then that meeting happened and
00:06:40.620that meeting was kind of when we both realized my husband and I like oh this is I mean never did I
00:06:48.000imagine it was going to happen with six-year-olds did i expect it as maybe kids got older yes but
00:06:54.020at six what they were implementing without parents being notified or required to be a part of it
00:06:59.960the policies that were there that apply from k to kindergarten through 12th grade
00:07:04.960wild yeah and yeah you think of i mean gosh at six years old like i'm sure there are six-year-olds
00:07:14.600who think they're like dinosaurs right we don't affirm that because of course we know they're not
00:07:19.560dinosaurs um school officials actually told you that FERPA I'm sure this was like a level of
00:07:26.420cover that they were providing themselves but FERPA prevented them from giving you information
00:07:31.420about another student what did you learn about FERPA I guess throughout this process and what
00:07:38.260do you think parents misunderstand about what schools can and can't tell them yeah so that was
00:07:44.180actually brought up in a few meetings after that and I think it's important to note that I did not
00:07:49.700go public with our story immediately I really tried to work through kind of the hierarchy of
00:07:55.880the district so I met with so many people all the way up to the a few of the school board members
00:08:02.000and the superintendent herself but during one of those meetings they said that they couldn't share
00:08:06.500information about another child with me because of FERPA and so being knowledgeable enough about
00:08:13.900you know FERPA I told them I didn't I'm not asking for you to meet for you to point out the child to
00:08:19.040me like yes I can understand why you can't like be like that's him right there but you could have
00:08:24.500said look there is a biological boy in the girl's bathroom now you have the information to do what
00:08:30.040you want and they wouldn't do that I mean I'm not asking for school records I'm not asking for
00:08:35.060personable identifiable information about a student yet they still quote FERPA and then to
00:08:40.280To get a step further, one of the staff members told me that under FERPA, now that I had this
00:08:46.540privilege information about this other child, that if I told anybody about the other child,
00:08:51.280that I could be held liable. And I remember looking at him and saying, that's not true.
00:08:57.120I don't work for the schools. Like, FERPA does not apply to me. So I almost feel like they were
00:09:03.600trying to manipulate us into being silent and to not telling other parents what was happening and
00:09:10.420it was never our intention to go out this kid right we're talking about really small children
00:09:16.440and i think that all of them need to be protected taken care of it was never our intention we were
00:09:22.360asking the school be transparent with with parents so that they can make decisions on behalf of their
00:09:27.320own children and so what do we know about the gender support plan now in terms of again
00:09:33.440what sort of roadmap are we talking about of course when we have a plan there's a destination
00:09:40.020that you're trying to to reach what sort of roadmap does this gender support plan provide
00:09:46.060for these students who are maybe confused maybe who have been manipulated maybe who actually
00:09:51.720believe they're the opposite sex and who has to abide by this plan and our parent was i guess i
00:09:59.600should phrase it this way do we know if there's a level of transparency in this gender support plan
00:10:06.220even to that boy's parents do we know that yep so i i dove really into this whole process right
00:10:13.940it's not even the gender support plan like that the gender support plan is the end um so in the
00:10:20.080beginning if a child has any confusion about their gender um this wellness coordinator is
00:10:26.500brought in almost immediately okay and if that's what defines i guess confusion about the gender
00:10:32.700is it could it be as simple as like liking the color pink i don't know like who ultimately gets
00:10:39.500to decide this maybe the teachers like have a reporting process where yeah yeah that's crazy
00:10:45.580well and i know that they hand out on the first day of school the san and free public schools
00:10:48.960hands out a form that says what is your name what name would you like to go by what pronouns would
00:10:54.780you like to go by and then can I use this name and pronoun when I talk to your parents that is
00:11:02.120wild wild so don't know kids in first grade don't know what a pronoun is no no they don't because
00:11:08.500my daughter was getting so confused about you know them them telling her to call this little boy a
00:11:14.260girl and she was like but he's not and there's no ill intention there no there's no you know level
00:11:19.820of animosity or or meanness well they told me that she needed uh counseling to become more accepting
00:11:26.780because in their view if she did not use the correct pronouns uh that this child identified
00:11:32.620with that she would be disrespectful and i'm like she's six it's such a crazy thing when you think
00:11:37.880about what you're asking young girls in particular to do you're telling them to ignore their gut
00:11:44.980instinct exactly when something feels wrong especially when it comes to their bodies and
00:11:51.260their safety and maintaining that level of privacy and innocence that comes with being a child
00:11:56.640especially a child in first grade and when you're telling young girls to ignore when that feels
00:12:01.140threatened to to kind of let down your walls drop the boundaries and it's okay to use the bathroom
00:12:08.460with a boy it's a really really harmful message i mean even thinking long term outside of even the
00:12:14.500gender ideology movement predatory men oh absolutely yeah that is just i've said that
00:12:19.620over and over you know when i only have sisters so when my parents were raising us it was like
00:12:24.720listen to your gut go to the bathroom in pairs make sure you never leave your drink unattended
00:12:29.720Like, these are the things that our parents instilled in us.
00:12:32.840You spent decades, society even spent decades teaching young women.
00:13:01.800They're willing to risk all girls' safety and all girls' privacy for one boy's feelings.
00:13:08.680And one boy's mental health or perceived mental health or one boy's, I guess, identity at the expense of all girls.
00:13:16.700Yeah, that's a pretty harmful message.
00:13:18.420Anyways, I totally interrupted you about this gender plan.
00:13:21.580So there's a process ultimately that the teachers are involved with.
00:13:25.820Yeah, I think it's all the school staff, whoever wants to initiate it, or if the child in some way indicates maybe that they want to or have questions about their gender, which we should probably touch on too.
00:13:40.620They're literally teaching it to fourth graders in the Santa Fe public schools.
00:13:44.320But whatever initiates that meeting, that meeting will happen with this wellness coordinator without parents.
00:13:50.780They will start meeting with your child and kind of put them down that path of these gender support plans, okay?
00:13:58.080Maybe the child doesn't want the parents to know.
00:14:01.180They could start going by new names and new pronouns in their classrooms.
00:14:04.960Their teachers are required to use these new names and new pronouns without parents knowing.
00:14:10.440Let's say that the kid wants to go a little further and start using other bathrooms.
00:14:14.320That's when a gender support plan needs to be implemented.
00:14:17.100But you've already set these kids down this road for who knows how long and kind of like socially transitioning them.
00:14:23.960By the time the parents are brought in to make these gender support plans, like part of their student records, what are the parents supposed to do at that point?
00:14:35.440Because if they say, no, hold on a second, we're not going to affirm this, then they're, you know, unaccepting, they're abusive.
00:14:43.720We just saw Massachusetts where, I mean, virtually this happened with a little girl who was beginning to transition into a boy.
00:14:52.440The family is Christian, conservative family, Catholic family, and so they ultimately, you know, opposed this.
00:26:05.240are they not getting enough socialization although i don't think my kids have that issue
00:26:10.180um and we try to keep up each other yeah yeah and they have lots of cousins i mean thank the lord i
00:26:15.800have such a big family with and they have lots of cousins and then we keep on busy with sports and
00:26:20.660outside activities you know i think the the hard part is for me to juggle it all because i still
00:26:26.180work full time and then i'm trying to now bring awareness to the state because i think other
00:26:32.280parents have the right to know what's happening. They send their kids off to public school thinking
00:26:36.220they're going to be safe, and there's probably similar values, and that's just not the case,
00:26:43.080and it's not just in Santa Fe. It's all over New Mexico. Have you heard from other parents,
00:26:48.960whether in your daughter's class or other parents across the state since taking this stand, and are
00:26:54.980they just as appalled as you and your husband? Yes, yes. So a lot of parents have reached out
00:27:00.900and shared stories kind of similar to what happened with our daughter but they are afraid
00:27:06.780to speak out you know I've asked them do you want to tell your story and and I get it I get why
00:27:13.160they're afraid you know it compromises your job it compromises your friends it compromises like
00:27:18.120when you take a stance on these type of issues your livelihood yeah it's just hard so I get it
00:27:23.920I get it but the only way we're going to change and influence change is by speaking up and being
00:27:30.520part of that change right and that's why ultimately we decided to go public after you know many many
00:27:37.100months trying to work it out um but i told my husband i just didn't feel good walking away
00:27:43.380and leaving all those other little girls all the other kids for that matter because they were all
00:27:49.200trying to like figure out why this child was identifying as a girl when they all clearly knew
00:27:55.880he was a boy it's a lot for kids of course yeah it's a lot for adults yeah I was gonna say like
00:28:02.160my grandma still gets it's so funny she'll see the articles and it talks about like trans women
00:28:08.380and trans men and the pronoun thing and so my grandma will text me she's like Riley is this a
00:28:13.040woman who's a man or a man who's a woman and I'm like Gammy I don't even know anymore like I also
00:28:17.540can't keep up so it is it's a lot for for fully grown intellectual adults do you feel like of
00:28:24.640course, I saw your story on national news. And so you have outlets like Fox that are honest and,
00:28:32.660and, you know, shed light to what's happening to you. Do you feel like there has been good coverage
00:28:39.140or I should say honest coverage from the other side? And I think in particular, local news
00:28:44.220outlets like New Mexico media outlets, have they been fair to you? Have they, I guess, given any,
00:28:50.280umph behind your story yeah no yeah it's actually been very discouraging um the lack of media
00:28:59.680coverage and i have put myself out there i have asked for them to cover it i think at this point
00:29:05.820now more than sharing my story it's about awareness that not only school districts across
00:29:11.560new mexico but state law also is violating parental rights throughout new mexico and they will not
00:29:19.520they will not cover the story they will not cover or you know which is really um
00:29:26.400well they're not doing their job to inform the general public of new mexico it's doing a the
00:29:32.700the greater new mexico a disservice by not saying hey everybody look at your school policies they're
00:29:39.060they're violating your parental rights i didn't realize that that was so controversial uh but i
00:29:44.280would like to shout out two um two places that have given me um a platform to share my story in
00:29:51.420its entirety because they very much try to suppress the story they don't want me to tell it in
00:29:55.960everything that happened um but the two places are the new mexico sentinel and the chili wire
00:30:02.100podcast those are the two local media in new mexico that have allowed me to to share uh the rest of
00:30:09.320them i've done interviews but they choose not to to publish it isn't that's almost worse isn't it
00:30:16.100it's almost worse because at that point the bias is undeniable oh yeah it's undeniable um you've
00:30:23.500teamed up with independent women in new mexico and they always do a really good job of you know
00:30:29.460creating these these comprehensive backgrounds and stories um on people like you uh can you tell
00:30:36.820me a little bit more about what you're doing with independent women and what changes you hope to see
00:30:41.460whether it be legislatively in the school board specifically what changes you want to see in your
00:30:47.940state or in your your district yes i'm very grateful to independent women because i almost
00:30:52.060feel like they helped me when nobody else would although i do want to say thank you to liberty
00:30:58.020council they are the attorneys that that kind of helped me after we kind of moved past the talking
00:31:03.800to the the school board and filing a complaint with the department of education um so but
00:31:09.820here's the thing these aren't local people helping me and i am a local new mexican born and raised i
00:31:18.260have multiple generations my grandpa's 102 and still lives there i mean it's legacy you know and
00:31:24.320and i couldn't get anybody local to help me so liberty council and then independent women they
00:31:30.100gave me the platform I needed to get the word out and so at this point I hope my work is first and
00:31:37.360foremost getting the word out there so that parents know that their rights are being violated
00:31:43.940so they could take care of their children first and foremost they need to take care of their
00:31:49.060babies and make sure they know what's going on with them so that they you know they're not taken
00:31:54.780away and they never even knew what hit them you know so school uh as far as like local school
00:32:01.380districts i would like to find other parents that are passionate about this so that that
00:32:05.840we could start influencing policy change like i'm trying to do in santa fe but there's
00:32:11.300eight different school districts in new mexico that have these type of policies that
00:32:15.240will socially transition your kids without you knowing eight different school districts in new
00:32:19.200mexico so i mean a lot of work to go to you know to for there to start influence those policy
00:32:25.720changes and then yes at the state level there is the um a bill that was passed i think it was in
00:32:32.5402023 uh the reproductive and gender affirming health care freedom act something like that
00:32:39.660it's house bill seven right house bill seven hb seven um that needs to change or just go away
00:32:46.280altogether because it's allowing state-funded public entities to transition your kids and to
00:32:55.300offer them gender-affirming care and without parental requirement with no age restrictions
00:33:00.360and it's saying a public body cannot interfere with minors accessing this type of health care
00:33:07.700you mentioned this federal complaint where does that stand now has there been any movement
00:33:14.300Not that I know of. No, I'm sure that the Department of Education is overwhelmed with complaints. And for a while, we just waited to see, you know, if something was going to happen. I would love for them to come investigate New Mexico schools. I mean, hopefully being here.
00:33:30.960hopefully we can get this in the hands of the right people yes yes her meet dylan has been
00:33:37.920really really strong on this issue um she's with the department of justice but nonetheless
00:33:43.320they have worked in collaboration with each other the department of education and the
00:33:48.360department of justice to become a real federal enforcement mechanism and so hopefully we can
00:33:54.940get this in the right hands and something can be done because as you know it's not just you
00:34:00.440It's not just your husband. It's not just your daughter who is being affected and who takes issue with the policies in place.
00:34:07.880There are plenty of parents, the majority of parents, I would say, despite the silence from many, as you said,
00:34:16.780I think silence that largely stems out of fear.
00:34:19.700Despite the silence, I would imagine that the majority of parents in New Mexico are right there with you.
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