EPISODE 348: WILL BRAZIL INVOKE MARTIAL LAW? WITH MATT TYRMAND
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Summary
In this episode, we are joined by investigative journalist and close friend, Matt Tierman, to discuss the latest on the situation in Brazil. We cover everything that s going on in the country, including the political situation in the streets of Rio de Janeiro, the ongoing protests, the corruption scandal, the political scandal, and much more.
Transcript
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ladies and gentlemen welcome aboard for another in our series of america fest interviews and we're
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very excited to be able to have investigative journalist matt tierman back on with us now you
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remember matt sat down with us for one hour the full on brazil special just a few weeks ago well
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we saw him here at the event i came up and said matt what is the latest for brazil is anything going on
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there was so much going on and thankfully he agreed to take some a little time to spend with us
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to give us all the details on brazil because matt from what i hear there could be stuff happening
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this very week thank you so much and tell us the latest well first i do appreciate always being
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with you uh i i thought your intro was great i have one issue with it investigative journalist
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and close friend i was at your wedding that's true it's true it's true matt we've been friends
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polish americans he snuck in in the back and i was up getting married to the beautiful and
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lovely tiny day i wasn't loving anybody else that day you know what i'm saying i was dressed as a
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wing hussle i come over there i come over and i say is that tierman who let him in i got an invite
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it was a plus one he was a plus one it was an island of misfit toys and it really was a lot of
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that was a cool wedding that was a great setting we get in uh in the national park well the church
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probably not yeah amazing and you know it's cool setting you know for a lot of the weddings
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people have man you know they they're a little bit too stuck up not i love that ours was just fun
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yeah it was great good polish wedding oh yep well from poland to brazil poland brazil right yeah a lot
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is going on uh the pod that we did the the hour we did has gone everywhere and brazilians as you've
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seen are so engaged even before what was gone on which by the way tell say the american audience
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that was translated into portuguese and it's gone viral in portugal i mean even when i did
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the excuse me brazil even even when i did the tucker segments yeah portugal too there's a ton
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of brazilians here of course even when i did the tucker segments by the time i got home from the
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studio already they'd taken it off the web and translated and it had like millions of views that's
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crazy tens of millions of times it's been you know they're really really appreciative of view of
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tucker uh of emerald of steve of bannon because we've been covering war room one two three times a day
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and they really want the story to get out there because as we've talked about the revolution will
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not be televised we're now in day you know 50 something here of tens of millions of people
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camped out in the cities and the squares outside the military barracks sos brazil trends every day on
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all social media because brazilians are always engaged in social media and now it's just through
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the roof uh given the volatility going on on the ground and well and i and since since you and i
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spoke and i'll just i'll throw it out there that i did travel down to mexico city had the opportunity
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to meet very briefly with eduardo bolsonaro yep and you know really just said that we you know
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nothing you know secretive i just said we're we're praying for you we're praying for the people of
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brazil we're standing with the people of brazil we see what you're going through and if there's
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anything that we can do anything that we can get out i'm more than happy to and that's what i want to get you on
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stage a few weeks ago where the boston arrows were being very very quiet since then a lot has
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happened including uh so the big date sort of what i thought would be the zero date was uh on monday
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the 12th this past monday right now where uh we're sunday the uh the 18th but on monday the 12th the
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court the electoral court that we spoke about in depth that's the subsidiary court the supreme court
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which has the same head of court alexander de marias who is an appointee of the same cabal lula
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dilma temer that let lula out of prison so that he could run the same court pushed up the certification
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day from the 19th which should have been tomorrow one week up to that monday lap this past week and
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this and they're trying to certify this they're trying to run they're trying to rush it they're
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trying to rush it they don't want any uh verification they don't want to it's got it looks like what
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happened in arizona where they said you know they said you need to verify this or you'll be arrested i
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said well what's the point of verification if you're forcing someone and by the way and this is one of the
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things that should give the military constitutional allowance to invoke article 142 which we spoke
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about the sort of martial law uh constitutional clause yes because the military has a constitutional
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right to audit the machines the tabulation the source code and this court basically said bugger off
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they just refused to hand it over refused to comply with constitutional law which is what they've been
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doing uh ad nauseum ad infinitum so ahead of the certification on monday the 12th on that friday
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uh bolsonaro did a speech at the alvarado palace which is the brazilian white house and it was very
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very powerful he allowed the people the protesters to come into the complex just come in and hear him
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speak very very casually and he gave a great speech and he made a great point that i've really tried to
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telegraph as much as i can uh where he said how many times in history have we seen people protest
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especially in latin america to keep the president to keep him in power we've seen so many protest movements
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all over the world and in latin america especially in the modern era the pre-modern era the last
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40 50 60 years to get rid of the president for corruption for not transitioning uh you know uh
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allowing the peaceful transition of power this happens always there's never been a time in history
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where people came to this level of scale on the streets and said no we want our president we believe
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he was freely elected and duly elected we want him to stay and then on that saturday and sunday they
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held more events they held a prayer vigil and then he spoke more and then on monday they had that
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certification and then what happened was real interesting the supreme court the supreme electoral
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court the subsidiary court that oversees the election arrested the head of the giovanchi tribe
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uh chief cesari uh who's been one if you're watching any of this on instagram or social media
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he's in so many videos he doesn't wear a shirt wears body paint there are several tribal chiefs who
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have become tip of the spear on the protest movement because they feel disenfranchised because
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many of them did vote for bolsonaro even though historically their tribes their regions in the
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north very very poor were left-wing voters but they weren't this time bolsonaro is a populist
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has brought the left the center the right together and many of them voted for him and then they saw
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the returns on the electoral website right after the election said zero votes in those precincts zero
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votes so they started marching they filed a petition with the u.n committee on indigenous rights because
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the indigenous have been used all the time by the global left is we need to protect the indigenous
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this they're they're they're in the amazon basin exactly rain this is the rain forest this is
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some of the most poor area right but but wealthy and natural resources i understand these are the
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people that uh you know used to be the cause celeb exactly the left for the for the throughout the
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90s now their rights are being ignored throughout you know even into the early before right before
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climate change too and you and you hear dicaprio and some people will bring up the amazon from time
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to time to attack bolsonaro sean penn here's the sean penn right right yeah another cia agent um and then
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you know and so here are the people who actually live there are coming forward and they're telling
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you nobody expected what they want nobody expected it they really know it was rollywood and you know
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et cetera when it comes oh no now now their their rights are being trampled and nobody's standing up
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for them so they're standing up for themselves they have special dispensations in brazilian law that
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allows them a lot of immunities and so they're marching and this man uh for the chief of the
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giovansi tribe he was really really vocal leading protests outside lula's hotel uh outside the electoral
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headquarters so they arrested him and they did it by design to create a provocation and to rile up the
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protesters protesters did not take the bait but that night they sent down from the hills uh hired a
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hired homeless people antifa we saw gas masks they said i mean we never saw gas masks the previous 44
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days and they set fire to cars and buses they broke the windows of cars by the way those cars and trucks
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that whose windows were broken had brazilian flags had the brazil was stolen flag that's become an image
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of this whole movement so it's obviously not the protesters breaking their own cars this is the
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left-wing side doing this was january 6th as i said on i think i said on tucker i said a lot of other
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shows january 6th vibes really right here these were people you're saying in terms of infiltration
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and infiltration and trying to create a false optic uh of of you know and then of course dutifully
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globo folha the brazilian mainstream press and then sending this to reuters who picked it up
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brazilian aros uh protesters are violent they're setting fire to cars these were not people seen in protests
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in brazil up to this moment they came down they created this wanton destruction and vandalism
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arson and then the media got the narrative and you know how we know that they were not boston
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our protesters because up until this moment we saw no violence no arson no vandalism and then all of
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a sudden they come in when you and i spoke last that's actually something we were talking about
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how it's been peaceful they're praying praying the rosary they're out there i mean 95 percent
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their rights constitutional rights in brazil right to assemble right to protest right to free speech
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within reason we don't have not the same robust free speech rights we have in the u.s but very much
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like europe and protest is allowed and that's what bolsonaro said two days after the election when he
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came out and said follow the constitution if you feel it's warranted go to the streets and protest
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he never conceded well since then it's only gotten worse after that first night the next day marias the
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supreme court chief justice of both the supreme court and the electoral court arrested four more people
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uh a pastor a couple journalists and an elected official who were protest movement leaders by the
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way these protest movements are organic it's people coming to streets on their own volition
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there's no real telegram chats there's no real astroturfing i was joking that's uh the other day
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i said the same thing about china um that the way if you can tell a protest movement is organic as if
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it's not on the news yeah yeah totally and of course again we talk about the revolution will not be televised
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right so the next day they arrest four more the day after that uh boss uh marias puts out warrants
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for 80 protest leaders he's isolated and picked out that day following they had warrants they were
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pre-dawn raided their devices were taken their bank accounts were frozen they were de-platformed
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and this is catalyzed this gross overreach of a gulag state which is what you and i've been talking
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about if if lula got in it would be gulags within a few months it would be venezuela within a few
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months again these are the fellow travelers that he's not even all the way in yet he's already
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talking about normalizing venezuelan relations uh once with with no conditions whatsoever castillo
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the peruvian uh president and peru as well dissolved the congress who then was like thracked
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down by the legislature and the military and the law enforcement he tried to stay in but by the way
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it's so funny because he's another forum so paulo incubated communists like chavez and maduro and
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the kirchners and ortega and morales and petro and boric and more recently in colombia and chile
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respectively and so castillo and so funny because the next day after that peruvian attempted coup by
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the president who's one of lula's contacts and fellow travelers after the next day the brazilian
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mainstream press started running out he's a conservative the guy's a forum so paulo activist
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a marxist activist so it's really it's really i mean they are grossly overreaching common sense good
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sense morality on every level but these 80 uh these 80 warrants that got uh that got put out there and
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these these protesters who some are jailed some haven't been caught up we had one pastor who tried
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to take refuge and claim asylum in the israeli embassy i mean that's how and he's he's on
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instagram doing live streams uh but it's not seen in brazil it's only seen in the west because they
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can't control the west uh it's really really a fraught situation so there were holdouts that i know
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from my sources in the high command close to the high command of the like the joint chiefs of staff in
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the uh across the military branches there were holdouts saying well we don't want to do anything
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because then it'll be a military coup is how it'll be spun and you know we'll work with lula we'll keep
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him in check that's nonsense after this they realized after valdemor de castaneto the head of
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the pl party bolsonaro's former party before he became president uh he's come out and been very vocal
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this is an elder statesman of brazilian politics who marias put on a criminal investigation list when
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they presented their evidence of fraud and find the party 22 million reais four and a half five million
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bucks uh you know it's all coming to a head i believe it will happen this week it has to happen
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before christmas if it doesn't happen before new year's uh then you know new year's day is when
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he's supposed to be inaugurated so let's let's let's let's walk in so uh what you're talking about
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is the military coming in using and this is what's key and people need to understand this
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because it's it's a little bit different than our system totally different where the military
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actually has a constitutional role yeah duty brazil responsibility duty and responsibility
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to be a check on elections and separated powers and that's what's going on now separated powers
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dispute and it's not for one side or the other it's just to verify that election was properly
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conducted they have the constitutional endowed right to do so and they also have specifically
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the first lines of article 142 say that in periods of distress and instability in the country
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for instance a separated powers dispute by uh out of control judiciary who's trying to censure
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the executive branch of the legislative branch it's the military's job because this is the
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institution society that's most governed by order discipline hierarchy and never forget the on the
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brazilian flag it says ordem and progresso uh interesting point about that on that friday or
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that saturday ahead of the certification uh boston hour came out and he didn't say anything this was a
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saturday and he lowered two of the flags he lowered the brazilian flag and he lowered the mercosul flag the
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south american sort of continental flag and he kept up the brazilian independence flag that dates back
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a hundred years or so and that was a symbol that was a symbol and that was also a cry out to the
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military i mean we're fighting for our independence here to not be a continental super a communist
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continental super state with venezuela under maduro and remember we talked about uh monica valente the
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secretary for sao paulo forum in brazil she said in in november after the second round was done that
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we're going to transition this and we're going to defend our democracy like we defend maduro's hard
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fought venezuelan democracy these people really believe venezuela is a democracy they want to make
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brazil tells you everything and the people on the ground know that they don't want gulags they
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don't want venezuela they do not want the resources of the wealthiest nation state in the hemisphere
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had had a brush with socialism in the past they had a military dictatorship they had the dictatorship
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they had socialism until the 80s that they got rid of and they don't want to go back to that
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a bolsonaro has said he said this to my to me personally he said it publicly eduardo says it all the
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time brazil will never be communist and now we're seeing more even generals saying that generals are
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tweeting that that we purged out the communists in their first insurgent insurrection in 1935 when it
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came from within the military then again in the mid-50s and then again in the mid-60s they've been
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fighting this it's like whack-a-mole with latin american communists and then it got worse in the
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90s in 1990 when the sao paulo forum was founded as the soviet union was breaking down the soviet union
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supplied cuba it was sort of cuba was the way that they were fermenting latin american marxist
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cues uh coups and taking over and trying to install global communism and boston arrow you know all the
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brazilians know this history so so well cheque varro and his motorcycle argentinian yeah kirchner's
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sao paulo forum fernandez sao paulo forum and they don't they know what the the future looks like
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and the military is uh general frere gomez general uh hamilton morale these generals many of them know what's
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up there were a few holds at holdouts and now it seems like they're all getting into line saying
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you know what we don't want to go to the gulig and by the way lula announced the heads of his military
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that would replace the existing military so basically it's there he's already looking to come in oh yeah
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and clean house they publicly said this a few years ago when they were turfed out boston arrow came in
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many of them were in prison delmo was impeached and convicted lulu was in prison before his appointees got
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him out under no grounds at all they they annulled and vacated his uh his sentence they expunged his record
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to get around the brazilian law that no convicted felon could run for public office they just did it willy nilly
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they just did it by fiat by diktat and so them doing so the generals know that it's their heads on pikes
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if they do not act lula has said publicly dilma has said publicly our big mistake when we ruled for 15 years
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was we didn't gut the military we didn't take out the long serving you know the 50 year olds the 60
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years who rose up in the hierarchy of the brazilian military we didn't take their heads off metaphorically
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and replace them with our guys and that's kind of where we won't make that come from a little bit
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he's career military he's career military before he entered congress he was career military so what
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they're talking about is not just any bolsonaro but any possible future bolsonaros that might be lurking
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in the ranks oh yeah no they they they publicly said essentially we will not make that same mistake twice
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and then they go out in a hubristic move and marias and these people are so hubristic i'll tell you how
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hubristic they are they let out uh so there's been a few scandals obviously most people know operation
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car wash but part of that connected to that was a scandal called lava jato which was this massive
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massive corruption circle of provincial governors state governors uh legislators uh within people
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within uh bolsa lula and dilma's governments and many of them were ensnared in this selling state
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assets the guiltiest guy was the head of the rio de janeiro state which is like the third or fourth
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biggest state after uh sao paulo and mina jorias and bahia it's right there the top biggest states
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this guy was convicted for 400 years for crimes against the state 400 years was serving like
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already just a couple of years they let him out of prison this week on thursday they just let him out
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this court said you're out you're free and this is a guy who's friends with lula friends with marias
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after the certification lula and marias got together and partied with their friends who are
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communist lawyers of course in uh in brazilia i mean this is so over the top and if you recall we
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talked about this bolsonaro was a breath of fresh air in the legislature he was able to spearhead
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legislation that allowed uh that pushed for paper and audible ballots dilma vetoed it got sent back to
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the congress congress overrode the veto with a massive super majority that never happens because
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congress is so fractured there then the supreme court in brazil uh struck it struck the law saying
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privacy concerns which is a total fig leaf it's a canard same as when dilma dilma vetoed it she said
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there was it would cost too much to put printers next to the machines a hundred dollar printer next to
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a two thousand dollar voting machine uh is really obviously a fig leaf what they really cared about is
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no auditable ballots no paper ballots and that's why when i was in brazil last year before i was detained
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by marias people were marching in the street give us paper ballots give us audible ballots
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i mean wouldn't it be amazing wouldn't it be amazing if you know that was something we had
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across the world in countries that have issues like this but when it comes to brazil how is it that
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these machines have been acted i mean it's like you know they were saying these are the machines that
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control the machine yeah okay well it's funny you should mention that because i'm about to break a story
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i'll give it to uh you know human events daily first boom uh so i'm breaking news i've had some
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whistleblowers inside the electoral court all right they've sent me caches of documents much like the
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hunter biden emails that you and i worked on together a lot to go through and of course they're
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in portuguese weekend in chicago by the way that was fun we were run by trump too uh they're in
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portuguese a lot of pdfs i have a team working on it uh this great argentinian forensic analyst who i urge
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everyone to watch and by the way uh you can go to my getter you can go to my twitter i've uploaded
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his rumble video he did his uh last breakdown of fraud and he talked he talked about the story a
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little but we're going to go a lot deeper in the next 48 hours uh and his rumble is all about all
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the frauds he did this about four or five days ago it's in english spanish and portuguese i've shared
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it he shared it in in outside brazil we can share it we can find it uh but one of the facets of the
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story was oracle had a contract that was illegal because it wasn't disclosed to the public it wasn't
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competitively bid and in brazil if you have domestic contractors uh the the barriers to getting the
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contract are lower if it's a foreign contractor a multinational it's higher they did not meet any
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of these contractual stipulations on procurement and they were it was not transparent so what we've
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discovered is that oracle was running as you say the machines behind the machines oracle was running
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machines behind the machines wow and we have the documents we have the contracts we're going to air
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them we're going to put them off in the next couple days and this is you know this is a big deal
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because this shows there was intent to circumvent a democratic clean process and it is damning it's
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it's uh if you want to talk about privacy concerns it's zapping up everybody's personal data it's
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communications devices that are uh connected to the machines that are supposed to be islands unto
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themselves that are not supposed to have external communication devices attached right so there's a
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room in the tsc where it's controlled all the machines are controlled remotely within the headquarters
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of this court run by mariahs and this is the military knows this this is part of and since
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we only have a couple minutes left i'm going to make the call my sources the only guest who actually
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checks the clock i'm used to uh being a wall street trader and knowing when four o'clock is coming
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with 30 seconds left uh the the what's going to happen this week i believe is they have all they
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need with these uh these warrants and mass arrests with the uh the military audit being blocked by the
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court with what they know that i know about these this machine in a secret room in the electoral
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court they have what they need and barias and the communists they are who they are they are communists
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are grossly overreaching in such a way that even the generals that are on the fence have now come
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had their come to jesus moment and they are now getting ready to take kinetic action we've already seen
00:20:57.180
military you know other reserve military reserves were expanded when they opened that up the site
00:21:02.660
crash within an hour because so many people signed up we've seen troop deployments to the border to
00:21:06.440
the venezuelan border specifically so there are troops and of course the globo and fall are ignoring
00:21:11.000
it but then some of their people send you do you think there's a real possibility that venezuela
00:21:15.780
could commit troops venezuela and chile have both said that if lula's not seated they will attack now
00:21:19.880
chile there's no will and and borage does not have the kind of control of the chilean military he's a 35
00:21:25.640
year old or so you know young marxist revolutionary from the sao paulo forum whose election was probably
00:21:29.960
defrauded in his favor as well so what we we talked about i don't think chile venezuela might
00:21:33.940
but venezuela we've talked about before they're buffering the venezuela border right now that
00:21:37.300
south america is on the brink because with the instability that we're seeing peru and brazil
00:21:43.780
that you i mean you're seeing you're seeing a low-level civil war breakout in peru right now we
00:21:49.260
don't know if it'll spill over completely but with brazil with brazil what you're talking about
00:21:54.520
it could actually it could spill into a civil war which which venezuela then intercedes in
00:21:59.700
and becomes a regional conflict and and proxy wars among proxy wars in turn internally among
00:22:05.000
the countries in the continent now what i think what happened in peru uh as it affects brazil is
00:22:10.680
that when castillo was thracked down by his legislature the military law enforcement what i think
00:22:16.680
that did was it emboldened the military in brazil to be more comfortable to invoke article 142
00:22:21.040
my call is that i believe that this week the week of monday the 19th before ahead of christmas total
00:22:27.180
coincidence this is all happening at the same time total yeah exactly like like you know like spreads
00:22:31.820
of uh covet or flu right as as as we know there there are i believe i believe that invocation of
00:22:38.340
article 142 will occur this week and uh brazil will see itself under martial law and most of the citizens
00:22:44.300
of the country will be thrilled about it because they're a lot more scared how is how is the
00:22:48.320
right administration going to react to that no that's when the real war starts that's when all
00:22:51.620
of a sudden you're going to get a lot of attention from global media bbc washington post state
00:22:55.580
department un eu and by the way nobody said anything about the civil rights being abused of the people
00:23:00.240
freely protesting the indigenous tribes nowhere is amnesty international human rights watch open
00:23:04.520
society uh you know organization of american states they're nowhere on this but the second military
00:23:09.360
uh uh rule will be invoked as a stabilizing of society then all of a sudden you'll see with
00:23:15.320
article 142's invocation then you're going to see the global media get activated and then we're
00:23:18.900
going to have to fight my call is that it will be invoked and my other call is that bolsonaro is
00:23:22.500
going to have to step down and he's going to have to say hey it's not me it's the military it's our
00:23:26.200
constitution a caretaker government will be put in place maybe with a retired judge who has a lot
00:23:31.200
of faith from the masses like sebastian cuello maybe to be a military general but it is widely
00:23:36.060
supported by the people then they'll have to hold new elections for president and i think that will play
00:23:40.340
out in january and february now you planning to go down i'm hoping yeah i might go down i was hoping to go
00:23:45.120
down already but my calendar was you know i want to be here with you got to be here to be in new york
00:23:49.620
for the white to honor you congratulations thank you i appreciate that and uh so but yeah i'm hoping
00:23:54.060
to go down i know if i went down right now i'd be arrested immediately which is kind of the turn
00:23:57.500
on about it but i mean that's yeah like you and davos like you and davos but i would like where can
00:24:02.900
people follow you assuming you have not yet been arrested by the brazilian uh brazilian federal
00:24:07.740
military police federal police yeah the federal police are the ones that uh marias uses uh
00:24:12.340
m-a-t-t-h-e-w-t-y-r-m-a-n-d at getter twitter bannon's war room on a daily basis because we're
00:24:18.720
covering this uh gateway pundit by the way is doing a great job covering this and you guys at
00:24:22.320
human events daily are doing a great job as well appreciate it matt choice check
00:24:25.920
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