00:01:48.240I think people are going to be very happy.
00:01:49.800After Major League Baseball players on the San Francisco Giants were criticized by Major League Baseball for writing Bible verses on their team issued Pride Night hats during Friday night's game against the Chicago Cubs, including Landon Roop, a 27-year-old right-hander from Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, who started and pitched four and two-thirds innings with Genesis chapter 9 verses 12 through 16 written on his cap next to the rainbow-colored team logo, as you can see there.
00:02:14.600After breaking news, the judge in the UnitedHealthcare CEO murder case says the suspect will try a psychiatric defense.
00:02:20.820An Omaha man is now in federal custody accused of being part of a plot to attack the UFC event at the White House on Sunday.
00:02:31.340Alvarez was booked on two federal charges, conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States of America and conspiracy to commit murder.
00:02:39.020Marky J. Clayton's confirmation hearing was supposed to begin this afternoon, but in a post on Truth Social overnight, President Trump says he is delaying Clayton's nomination to try and force a vote on the Save America bill.
00:02:52.320In a lengthy 4 a.m. post, the president said in part that he will keep Bill Pulte on as acting director of national intelligence and will not approve the renewal of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, without Congress approving the voter ID bill known as the Save America Act.
00:03:10.240well ladies and gentlemen welcome aboard today's edition human events daily real america's voice
00:03:18.800we're here live it's june 17th 2026 anno domine president trump on the move there in uh moving
00:03:26.500from one part of france to another where he is going to be attending a dinner at the palace of
00:03:32.540Versailles with Emmanuel Macron later this evening in France. But of course, what we see here in the
00:03:40.980United States is the highest drama of all. Early this morning, about 4 a.m. Eastern Standard Time,
00:03:49.540President Trump canceled the nomination or hearing, I should say, the confirmation hearing
00:03:55.200of his DNI permanent nominee, Jay Clayton, said we are canceling the hearing and will not be going
00:04:03.000forward until until Jamie McDonald is approved with the U.S. attorney and also says I will not
00:04:09.600approve FISA without the Save America Act going along with it. Not complicated, actually. The
00:04:16.200Republicans fell into a trap. And that means, indeed, that Bill Pulte, Bill the Bulldog Pulte,
00:04:24.920will serve as acting DNI until such time as the full approval goes forward.
00:04:33.280So the president says that because the Democrats broke the deal,
00:04:38.960he is canceling everything until it is done.
00:04:41.940He may not be able to get these extraordinary partners approved,
00:04:53.800He's calling the Senate's bluff. Remember, the Senate was up there saying, oh, we can't have the build the bulldog Pulte in because he is going to be, you know, just so terrible for national security.
00:05:06.160By the way, the same type of senators, the same type of establishment club that said the same thing about President Trump when he went up as a man who came from the business community and said that he was going to look at national security quite differently.
00:05:20.380This is, in fact, what the voters of the United States of America voted for.
00:06:16.780And a lot of that comes in the form of service contracts to who? Defense contractors. And who do the defense contractors in turn donate to? Oh, that's right. United States senators, possibly even senators that are on the Intelligence Committee. Should we go here at Human Events Daily and take a look and see which U.S. defense contractors are donating to senators on the Defense Committee?
00:06:40.920we can easily do so. It's as simple as that. But President Trump has said, you know what?
00:06:45.600I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the Senate playing games. Not only am I canceling the hearing today
00:06:50.180and Senator Cotton, I guess he didn't get the message because he said he was going to go forward
00:06:54.620with it. But then he came back a little bit later and said that they're going to be pulling it
00:06:59.460because the president canceled. It would have been happening right now. But it's not because
00:07:03.760President Donald J. Trump has decided it's time to play hardball with the United States Senate.
00:07:10.100And Mr. President, we're fully behind you when it comes to that.
00:07:13.780Human Events Daily, Real America's Voice, right back.
00:07:30.500We'll stand in our way and our golden age has just begun.
00:07:34.740This is Human Events with Jack Posobo.
00:07:36.380Now it's time for everyone to understand what America first truly means.
00:07:41.080Welcome to the second American revolution.
00:07:49.120All right, folks, Jack Posobiec back live here.
00:07:51.700Human events daily, real America's voice.
00:07:53.760Ladies and gentlemen, America hits 250 years and we're fighting for its soul right now.
00:08:08.500For more than 12 years, they've stood with Americans like us, backing the Christian conservative movement when everyone else stayed silent or worse.
00:09:01.240All right, I want to bring in here Washington Bureau Chief Matt Boyle of Breitbart News, because the president's comments there at the G7 really, really popping off stock market, obviously having a reaction.
00:09:16.980The Iran deal, one of the biggest talks saying that, you know, that we could have kept dropping bombs.
00:09:23.160Then they would have never had it open the past two days or a chance to get to the table.
00:09:26.900Didn't want to see the economic catastrophe, et cetera, et cetera.
00:09:30.680President Macron and others said they love the deal.
00:09:32.940The Gulf nations love the deal, saying that Iran would have obliterated the Middle East.
00:09:38.040Also said they spoke with Zelensky and Putin, expressing hope with a number of both sides there and hopefully getting to an end on Ukraine.
00:09:47.900But, Boyle, what I'm asking about is we got the president up there and he's of course, he's in his in sales mode.
00:09:54.740We're also seeing these various versions of the deal floating around 12 points, 14 points.
00:09:59.880what do we make of all this? Well, the final text has now been released. We have it. I mean,
00:10:05.240I literally got it 20 minutes ago. So from the White House, so like the, so we now know what
00:10:11.060the deal actually says. And so, I mean, I can literally tell you what it says and whatnot.
00:10:16.540I've been reading it during the commercial breaks. And so the fact of the matter is the
00:10:21.060various versions that were floating around out there in the media were all, you know,
00:10:26.060not exactly right and so some of them had some of the pieces of it right but none of them had it
00:10:31.340exactly right and i just think it tells you a lot about our establishment media and the globalist
00:10:36.540elites and whatnot and all these people that believe in forever wars that they're so desperate
00:10:41.180to try to tank this thing and not make it work but the fact is is that what the president the
00:10:46.700vice president have been saying all week is that this is a deal that again first and foremost
00:10:53.580So the Iranians actually agreed to this. They actually said, quote, the Islamic Republic of Iran reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons.
00:11:03.480The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran have agreed to resolve the disposition of stockpiled enriched material pursuant to a mechanism that will be mutually agreed upon in accordance with the schedule mentioned in paragraph seven,
00:11:18.000with the minimum methodology to be downblending on site under supervision of the IAEA.
00:11:24.340The two parties also agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment
00:11:27.440and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran's nuclear needs
00:11:32.400based on a satisfactory framework to being agreed upon in the final deal, etc., etc.
00:11:38.880I mean, this is a massive win for the United States.
00:11:41.220President Trump secured what Barack Obama never could,
00:11:44.160which the obama jcpoa put iran on a pathway to a nuclear weapon what president trump has done here
00:11:50.240is ensure that iran will never have a nuclear weapon period end of discussion that was the
00:11:55.280whole point of this right so that's why the president did what he did and made the bold
00:12:00.320decision to go into iran in the first place and that's what the objective was from the get-go was
00:12:06.880to ensure that iran can never have a nuclear weapon which the president has been clear about
00:12:10.880his entire adult life since even before he got into politics and then during each of his three
00:12:15.920campaigns for the white house particularly again in the 2024 campaign so again the president has
00:12:23.200been uh uh i think uh um vindicated by this agreement uh i think it demonstrates uh uh the
00:12:32.320the opportunities that exist in the middle east because if iran actually does agree to that stuff
00:12:36.640And then also to stop funding the terrorist proxies. And there's other things to be hammered out in an eventual final agreement that will be worked out over the next 60 days.
00:12:45.840But the fact is, is that if the Iranians actually do follow these steps, then they're going to get access to the various frozen funds and sanctions relief and whatnot.
00:12:59.580but they don't get any of that stuff until they do the things that are laid out in the deal and in
00:13:05.660the future negotiations on this stuff so uh it proves with the president the vice president
00:13:11.420others have been saying from the white house about this is exactly right uh so the the the fact is is
00:13:17.660that i think that this is going to end up becoming a massive win for president trump uh and uh and
00:13:23.580look at the end of the day if the iranians don't follow through on it they don't get anything they
00:13:27.180They don't get any of the money. They don't get any of the sanctions relief.
00:13:30.200And guess what? They still don't get a nuclear weapon.
00:13:35.360And if the Iranians actually do act like a normal country, that's what the vice president's been out there saying.
00:13:40.800If the Iranians actually do act like a normal country, then they can become a part of civilization.
00:13:45.780And they can engage with the world economy.
00:13:48.160And they will help the Middle East as a region and whatnot.
00:13:50.880But if they keep funding terrorist proxies and they keep making moves towards a nuclear weapon and keep being a menace to the region in the world, then they're not going to get any of those things.
00:14:01.300So it's actually a pretty well-structured deal if you actually read the text of this thing and understand it and talk to the people that are leading this process.
00:14:11.980And again, the U.S. doesn't give up anything in the process, right?
00:14:15.880So I think that it works out pretty well for the president.
00:14:18.320by the way and and that's why i think the rest of the world likes it too the nato chief is out there
00:14:22.640praising it and so are the european leaders and matt now that we're seeing it that one of the
00:14:27.840pieces that uh i was i was kind of in one of those you know panel debates the other day about this
00:14:33.040one of the pieces that i was going to be looking for was the stockpile right the stockpile of
00:14:37.760enriched material and i know that in i think in the bloomberg uh points that they had released
00:14:43.680and the CNN, as well as Axios, none of them actually included the specific line that I'm
00:14:49.640seeing here now from the White House. And this is something that the vice president has talked about.
00:14:54.880And so if you'd listen to J.D. Vance and took him at his word, that's what's actually in here. So
00:14:59.820again, what people need to understand is that the words we're looking at now were agreed upon
00:15:03.460by both sides. That's the United States and Iran. And here's the line. The United States of America
00:15:10.380and the islamic republic of iran have agreed to resolve the disposition of stockpile enriched
00:15:16.960material pursuant to a mechanism that will be mutually agreed upon so what they're talking
00:15:21.860about is the actual mechanism of resolving it is yet to be agreed agreed to that's what you just
00:15:27.840mentioned about either down like removing it completely uh going in and digging it up down
00:15:32.880blending it fine you know perhaps a permanent burial you know that's the stuff they'll sort
00:15:37.020Right, right. That's what they'll sort out. But the fact of the matter is, is a lot of people were saying that that was not going to be in this deal. And that was not true. That was not true at all. And Vice President J.D. Vann said that was in there. Now we're seeing it in black and white that it was in there the whole time.
00:15:52.860Yeah, there's a lot of liars out there who want the president to fail and they want the United States to fail here, or they want to drag us into a forever war. They want us to have to send in ground troops or something like that. I think the president deserves enormous credit here. He achieved a major, he took a massive swing by doing this, okay?
00:16:12.080Like, President Trump took a major, major risk by engaging in this whole thing.
00:16:17.880He could have just stayed on the sidelines like other American presidents have done and not done anything about this.
00:16:24.780And the whole world all says they agree, right?
00:16:27.720Like, all these other world leaders all say that, oh, Iran can never have a nuclear weapon, Iran can never have a nuclear weapon.
00:16:33.580And none of them does anything about it.
00:16:34.960Well, President Trump comes along, and here he does.
00:16:37.260He actually goes in and does something about it.
00:16:38.820Now we're going to get to an agreement here that doesn't end us into drag us into a forever war, by the way.
00:16:45.280So President Trump achieved a massive military victory, a total and complete victory for the U.S. military here, and now has, you know, taken things onto the diplomatic track to finish the objective, which was the clear objective from the outset.
00:17:01.880I mean, I can't see this other than anything as anything other than a massive victory for the United States and for President Trump.
00:17:08.560and for Western civilization in the whole world, which is why all these other world leaders,
00:17:13.020and I think the part of the reason why the president was so gung-ho about a lot of people
00:17:16.960were like, oh, Trump wants to sign it on his birthday. He wants to sign it on his birthday
00:17:21.460before, you know, with a big party with the UFC at the White House. No, the reason why Trump
00:17:26.300wanted to have this thing wrapped up this weekend before he went over to the G7 is so the whole
00:17:32.040rest of the world leaders had to acknowledge the fact that this is a massive victory for the world
00:17:38.120And it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for President Trump. Remember, our supposedly great allies, the British and the French, sat on the sidelines when this happened. NATO did not join us in this whole thing.
00:17:49.300There's a handful of allies that we had in the Gulf and some others like the Greeks and whatnot that really did help us as we went into this whole thing.
00:17:59.600Like the Greeks allowed us to use our military bases and whatnot in Creed, which is the last naval bases that can handle the aircraft carriers before you get to the Middle East.
00:18:09.780But even the Italians stopped us from using our military bases in Italy.
00:18:13.680That was the big dust up between Trump and Maloney.
00:18:15.880right like and again starmer and macron have just been terrible throughout this whole thing
00:18:20.980so the fact is is that and frankly i gotta give a massive shout out to the greeks the greeks have
00:18:25.900really been the ally that the british and the french are supposed to be uh during president
00:18:31.820trump's second term but the fact of the matter is is that again getting back to the the core of this
00:18:37.600agreement no matter what happens from here first off iran never gets a nuclear weapon
00:18:44.220And secondly, the opportunities to fundamentally remake the Middle East are real if Iran cooperates from here and actually delivers on all of these things.
00:19:44.220well folks remember saturday and sunday coming up this weekend it's father's day coming upon us
00:19:54.280this father's day is sunday give your dad the gift of a great night's sleep pay him back for
00:20:00.320all those sleepless nights you gave him as a as a kid probably some of the sleepless nights that
00:20:05.160you gave him as a teenager as well am i right i'm just saying look our kids we got the ghost bed at
00:20:10.640the Poso household, our kids, our boys, Jack, Jack, and AJ, they love crawling in there with us.
00:20:16.020They love it every single time. They say, Daddy, Mommy, how was your bed? So nice. What happened?
00:20:21.780It's simple. We got the ghost bed. Look, folks, ghost bed is a family owned and operated company
00:20:27.460with three generations of doing business in the United States. It's also American made. So you
00:20:33.680know that you're putting American workers to work. Right now, you can get up to 101 nights to try
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00:20:51.200over to ghostbed.com slash pozo and use promo code pozo to find out that's ghostbed.com slash
00:20:56.820pozo promo code pozo and so right this is what i wanted to do during the break just now i pulled
00:21:03.220up cnn.com and it went through their old article of the original points that they had leaked and
00:21:10.760then i pulled up the points of what the current deal is and guess what ladies and gentlemen
00:21:15.580it's exactly what i thought that bit about the enriched uranium specifically those stockpiles
00:21:22.140was not in cnn's draft agreement they didn't have it there's their agreement said oh we'll figure
00:21:29.500that out later. No. When you look at the actual 14 points that have been released now by the
00:21:34.700White House and you compare it to the original, that CNN's in, and gosh, you know, I wouldn't
00:21:40.420want to accuse CNN of being fake news. Perish the thought. I would never. But I would say
00:21:46.440that this is completely different. It has been agreed upon. This is absolutely massive. It's
00:21:54.160absolutely key. It's something that Barack Obama was never able to get done, that Obama was never
00:21:58.640able to put in on this that the enriched material will either be removed or will be and at a minimum
00:22:06.400excuse me at a minimum will be downblended that's all they've already agreed to downblend it that
00:22:12.960means that's already in the deal and i want to bring that boil back in here from breitbart
00:22:17.000that at the very end it says the final deal will be endorsed by a binding unskirt and an unskirt
00:22:25.040is United Nations Security Council resolution, which says to me, but guess what? That means
00:22:32.880he's got Russia and China on board, or they're very, very close to being on board as well as
00:22:38.560the French and the British, which of course is why he was talking about the fact that Macron
00:22:42.320was celebrating the deal. And of course, he's about to have dinner with Emmanuel Macron right
00:22:47.520now. Matt Boyle, far be it for me to say, but this feels like a major diplomatic coup by the
00:22:53.940president. Yeah, it does. And again, the fact about the UN Security Council resolution too is
00:23:00.840a big deal because this is, again, something that Barack Obama was never able to get done.
00:23:06.200And I think that, look, at the end of the day, here's the thing. This is not the final deal.
00:23:12.240This is the memorandum of understanding to do a 60-day ceasefire and hostilities and then begin
00:23:17.840the deeper negotiations towards the final deal. And the hope is that we'll get to a final deal,
00:23:23.720But either way, it's worth noting. First off, Iran gets nothing unless they take the various steps forward that are necessary to become like a normal country. And secondly, that Iran will never, actually, arguably, firstly, and more importantly, Iran will never have a nuclear weapon either way, right?
00:23:47.160Like, because they've been decimated, so we know, and if we have to, as the president made clear during his commentary at the G7, he just wrapped the press conference moments ago, where he talked about this, is that, again, if we have to, we'll go back to bombing them again, right?
00:24:03.720But the point is that they've been sent back a generation, in terms of the nuclear program anyway, because of the Operation Midnight Hammer last summer and Epic Fury this spring.
00:24:16.160And so those two things combined ensure that Iran will never get a nuclear weapon.
00:24:22.600The hope is that now they take the diplomatic off-ramp and agree to become a normal country and formally ditch their nuclear ambitions and join the rest of the world economy because they're a huge country with major energy resources.
00:24:38.080Frankly, energy resources that are not being exploited to their fullest potential.
00:24:42.840And this is where things could really get interesting.
00:24:45.140Now, this is not in the text of this memorandum of understanding. And I don't even think the final deal would say this. But the fact is, is that where this could really go. And I think that the president has already demonstrated this with Venezuela in other places around the world.
00:25:00.200both our friends and allies, is the president has used American energy companies, which are
00:25:05.720the greatest energy companies on the planet, okay? Chevron, ExxonMobil, et cetera. The American
00:25:11.920energy companies that do the oil and natural gas stuff are better than anything else out there on
00:25:17.280planet Earth. And we see this with our allies, our friends and allies. Greece and Cyprus are both
00:25:22.300doing this, where they're using Chevron and Exxon to get the natural gas out from under the sea.
00:25:27.640Or in the case of Venezuela, which was a now former adversary, now it looks like they're an ally, or at least a friend, the Chevron is there doing the oil.
00:25:39.940So Iran has both oil and natural gas, and they aren't getting them to the fullest potential.
00:25:46.860If the U.S. and Iran are able to sort this stuff out and Iran, again, starts behaving like a normal country and stops funding the terrorist proxies and stops being a menace in the region, truly ditches the nuclear program, we could be talking about global prosperity unlike anything we've ever seen before if the Iranians actually do this kind of stuff in the right way.
00:26:12.420And it will really help them, too, in a big way.
00:26:15.760And frankly, it would help the region.
00:26:17.840So what President Trump has done here, and you hear the vice president talk about this, about how this has the potential to fundamentally change the Middle East and bring usher in a new era of peace to a region that's been unstable for or unstable for generations.
00:26:49.260Matt Boyle, incredible analysis taking us around the horn.
00:26:52.560Finally, the focus gets to be on China, where, of course, you have argued, I've argued for so many years that that's where it really needs to be.
00:27:00.580Matt Boyle, where can people follow you, brother?
00:27:03.060On X at mboyle1 and true social at RealMattBoyle.
00:27:06.340all right god bless we'll write right back with a huge update in the tyler robinson case
00:27:35.060Jack, I want to see you. Great job, Jack. Thank you. What a job you do. You know,
00:27:42.980we have an incredible thing. We're always talking about the fake news and the bad,
00:27:46.420but we have guys, and these are the guys who'll be getting Pulisic.
00:27:53.140All right, Jack Posobiec back live here, Human Events Daily, Real America's Voice.
00:27:59.060And as we're perusing through, you know, the international news, we want to jump now to
00:28:04.880Big news from the post-millennial had this and a big filing that came out of the Tyler Robinson trial, something that a lot of us had suspected and is now being confirmed in a new document that Tyler Robinson's trans lover, Lance Twiggs, was in fact given limited immunity ahead of the Charlie Kirk murder trial.
00:28:32.880I want to get Will Chamberlain in here now because he'll help walk us through what this is, what this means.
00:28:39.360It's a type of immunity, as I'm understood, it's called use immunity.
00:28:44.020And I want to walk through the specifics of that, what we expect as the preliminary hearing is expected to take place.
00:28:50.940Everyone's so excited for America's 250th, but one week, the Monday after, just two days after the 250th, this preliminary hearing is set to kick off in a courthouse in Provo, Utah.
00:29:03.980Will Chamberlain of the Article 3 Project joins us now. Will, how are you?
00:29:09.520So, Will, does it surprise you that at all that Lance Twiggs was given any form of or this form of immunity here in exchange for his testimony?
00:29:20.940Not at all. I mean, I think this is, you know, I think the prosecutors very much wanted to have his testimony. And if I were Twiggs' lawyer, I would have told my client that he needed to plead the fifth in relation to any testimony in the absence of some sort of immunity.
00:29:33.640but the entire point of use immunity is and what that means is that the prosecutors are not allowed
00:29:40.280to use that testimony to prosecute to as evidence against him and they're not allowed to use that
00:29:48.060testimony to create leads to go off of so i mean if independent evidence of a crime arises elsewhere
00:29:53.580that can be still be used to prosecute the guy but you can't basically the testimony and the
00:29:57.740fruits of the testimony can't be used to prosecute him and that's the kind of thing that would be
00:30:01.360necessary to one to get, I mean, obviously just you to be able to compel him to testify and get
00:30:06.720what he knows on the record. So this is the type of thing, you know, I guess explain it to us to
00:30:13.620say, you know, if there were a, you know, a drug gang or something like that, and you were looking
00:30:17.640to prosecute the leader of the drug gang, perhaps you might give use immunity to one of the one of
00:30:24.120the lower associates, something like that. I wouldn't say it's about lower lesser associates.
00:30:29.060It's really about what kind of cooperation do you need and what's the specific purpose.
00:30:34.900So basically, use immunity is what is just limited to the testimony.
00:30:39.880What's called transactional immunity says that if you testify in relation to something,
00:30:44.260you are immune from prosecution from the subject matter of your testimony, not merely immune
00:30:49.120from having that testimony used against you.
00:30:51.280So it's a much bigger grant of immunity to say somebody is transactional immune.
00:30:54.880That's the kind of thing you'd give to someone if you really just have no intention of prosecuting
00:30:58.760them at all and really want them to be a very fulsome cooperator that would be the kind of
00:31:03.480thing you might do in a sort of like drug you know in a in a drug type of case where you give
00:31:09.560a full basically if you're trying to say threaten someone and get them to fully cooperate with you
00:31:13.780and you think there's no other way you give them full transactional immunity from
00:31:17.180uh the prosecution so that they give you what you need to to get the kingpin or something here
00:31:22.540the use immunity is is is very often used by prosecutors during during grand jury testimony
00:31:29.620or just just in any situation where you think that somebody you need testimony from is going
00:31:34.120to plead the fifth amendment uh the idea being that uh the fifth amendment no longer applies
00:31:38.940because if your testimony can't be used against you in a criminal prosecution you have no reasonable
00:31:43.400fear that it will incriminate you so and this is very interesting because what i want i want
00:31:50.340folks to understand is that what you're saying, if I understand this correctly, is that the
00:31:53.980limited immunity here does mean that there is a likelihood that Lance, and as we already
00:32:00.660know, just based on the charging documents, reports that have come out, he himself was
00:32:05.440involved at a few certain stages in the underlying behavior, in the underlying activity, that
00:32:13.120he had some level, perhaps of foreknowledge of what happened here. And he is going to
00:32:18.740be testifying to that, or at least, by the way, knowledge after the fact, we know for a fact that
00:32:23.860he knew after the fact, and of course, did not contact law enforcement, that it was the parents
00:32:31.320of Tyler Robinson that contacted law enforcement. And of course, this, this would potentially lead
00:32:37.800to him being called to testify on things that could open him up to legal immunity, especially
00:32:42.600by the way, as we were told that if he took steps to perhaps destroy either these handwritten
00:32:48.300messages or other things in their shared apartment that could lead police to identify Tyler Robinson
00:32:54.940as the murderer of Charlie Kirk. Do I have that right? Yeah, I think it's, I think the most you
00:33:02.400can 100% guarantee or not 100%, but basically guarantee is that the guy was going to claim
00:33:06.740the Fifth Amendment. And that was the basis on which he was going to refuse to both talk to
00:33:09.940prosecutors and testify. And they knew that. And so this was the only way to really solve that
00:33:14.880problem um and and it's a fair way also it's a way of solving that problem in a way that doesn't
00:33:20.460necessarily preclude you know if there's independent evidence of twigs's crimes use
00:33:24.280immunity here does not does not give him a get out of jail free card on that stuff but it does
00:33:28.600mean that uh they'll be able to get you know get him on the record i i think so that's that's that's
00:33:34.280what it means the extent of his uh involvement is not really is really up in the air and people
00:33:39.860can make Fifth Amendment claims even when their connection to the criminal activity is tenuous
00:33:45.920because obviously like if you remember I mean it's just a reasonable fear that your testimony
00:33:50.500might incriminate you and so that's even if you're unsure even if you're not so certain so I don't
00:33:56.180want to I wouldn't say that it's you should read too much in to the fact that he was given use
00:34:00.840immunity other than I would say that he's he was definitely ready to make a Fifth Amendment claim
00:34:04.740in order to avoid testifying or giving uh information to the police uh but you know
00:34:10.360given the other facts we know in this case i think it's pretty obvious he was sure but and and and
00:34:16.060that's kind of what i mean is that we do have independent information you know involving him
00:34:21.620we know that he didn't call the police we know that there was that the letter somebody burned
00:34:26.060the letter or you know tried to uh burn the handwritten note that was left at their house
00:34:31.580which presumably would be the only other person in the house, which would be the roommates.
00:34:36.380And but we also know that there were another I believe there was another series of either text or discord messages where Tyler Robinson was trying to get twigs to to come help him to come pick him up.
00:34:47.800I think from his parents house or something and twigs actually refuses.
00:34:50.960So, you know, there's there's several degrees of behavior after this, but it that we already do know about.
00:34:57.640But at the same time, to your point, you know, it it does seem as though a few of these a few of those may actually kind of tip over into crossing the line over, you know, what could potentially be a prosecutor prosecutable offense.
00:35:11.740Yeah. And I mean, again, if you were Lance Twiggs's lawyer and you didn't want to get disbarred, your advice, first piece of advice to him would be you're not talking to the police in the absence of an immunity deal.
00:35:20.860Right. It's just really, really simple. Like, don't let him incriminate himself. That's very, very basic.
00:35:24.940uh and so right because the lawyer that really i'm sorry to jump in again but the because the
00:35:30.140lawyer the lawyer you know may may not know the full extent of what lance has done or what he
00:35:36.780might say and you know as a as a lawyer of course you you hope that your client is telling you the
00:35:42.880truth because of course those conversations are protected by privilege but he doesn't know he he
00:35:48.160doesn't know what he doesn't know it's the uh uh the unknown unknowns of course that are are what
00:35:54.720his his lawyer is you know of course trying to cover up uh what goes in there because we could
00:36:00.380you know and i don't want to get too far afield in speculate in in terms of speculation but there
00:36:04.700could be all sorts of other things that come out in this testimony although i believe that what
00:36:11.180the current fight is is that they have i guess two recordings of twigs under oath one which he took
00:36:20.080on uh either september 11th or 12th so like it right in the right in the aftermath of charlie's
00:36:25.520murder and then another of from april of this year so about uh you know several months later
00:36:30.960where they go back and he corroborates many of the things that he says and will do i have an
00:36:35.400under correct uh do i have this correct that they want to play that tape of twigs at the
00:36:41.880preliminary hearing whereas now tyler robinson lawyers are fighting that twigs himself should
00:36:46.680actually appear. Ooh, interesting. I didn't actually catch that bit in terms of like,
00:36:51.260I'm not familiar with that, but that's a very, that's always one of those very interesting
00:36:54.400questions. I think it's the latest back and forth. It seems to be the latest back and forth between
00:36:58.780the two sides. Right. So at trial, there's no question about the fact that he would have to
00:37:03.140testify, right? You're not allowed to play the recording of somebody testifying previously when
00:37:08.140they are living and could be there to answer questions. That's because of the confrontation
00:37:12.680clause of the constitution constitution you're allowed the right to confront your accusers
00:37:17.280so um unless they're like dead so but if they're they're alive and living they they can't you can't
00:37:23.640just play a recording of a deposition they need to show up and testify in person so you can cross
00:37:27.120examine them um so that's now the question the interesting question is does that apply at the
00:37:31.740preliminary hearing and again i think we've discussed this before on this program uh the
00:37:35.860whole point of the preliminary hearing is merely to show that there is a there is an evidentiary
00:37:39.120basis to go forward with the prosecution, that there's probable cause. And so my suspicion is
00:37:44.180that the constitutional protections at the state, at the evidentiary hearing stage are much more
00:37:47.520minimal. And so I don't know what, how Utah handles this or what the case law is on the
00:37:51.820specifics of, well, yeah, we know the guy needs to show up in trial, but does he need to show up at
00:37:55.900the preliminary hearing or can they rely on a deposition? That's an interesting question. I
00:37:59.100don't know. I mean, I think ultimately it's all going to be immaterial because this is going to
00:38:02.820get passed for preliminary hearing. Quick, quick break. But yes, I, I, I agree with you there.
00:38:07.340This is about the preliminary hearing, which comes up in about two weeks' time.
00:39:16.420They're trying to block exhibits from the cameras.
00:39:19.220They're doing everything they can to put the brakes on this and to hide it from public scrutiny.
00:39:25.700Will Chamberlain, we were just talking about how Twigs has this immunity deal, this limited immunity deal.
00:39:32.120But so the fact that one deal has already come in for a witness now, that certainly doesn't, you know, shouldn't surprise anyone.
00:39:39.000But let's let's look at Tyler Robinson for a second here as well, since we're on the subject of deals.
00:39:44.700Do you think that it's possible that he, in fact, takes a plea deal at any point in this to prevent prevent having to face the death penalty?
00:39:54.720uh i mean i think he would have i mean i doubt it i don't think there's any i think the prosecution
00:40:04.440wants to take this case to trial i think they have overwhelming evidence that he is the guilty party
00:40:09.380and so from their perspective uh they're they want to go for the death penalty and they don't
00:40:14.100want him to plea out they're not worried about i would be shocked if there's a plea deal in this
00:40:18.280case but it's not because i think i think robinson would take a deal honestly i think robinson if he
00:40:22.300was offered, light in person would take it. Well, and that's, in fact, what happened with
00:40:27.060Brian Koberger, who was, you know, was going to face trial for the murder of four sorority students
00:40:34.860or sorority girls at up in Idaho. And he eventually did take a deal just before it went to
00:40:40.840trial. There was I don't know that the evidence was quite as strong in his case as it is in this
00:40:47.460case um they had a they had a sheath a a knife sheath with um you know one partial fingerprint
00:40:54.060on it i'm just doing this from memory and they had a couple of pings from his cell phone but
00:40:58.400and and one you know kind of blurry late night description of a you know a tall thin man by one
00:41:05.360of the uh one of the girls who survived and so it was nowhere near the mountain of evidence that
00:41:11.500we see in the tyler robinson situation yeah i think that's right and i don't begrudge those
00:41:17.220those prosecutors from looking at the evidence they had and thinking that it was wise to take
00:41:21.680life in prison rather than, you know, take some risk that a jury might just at the end have some
00:41:25.720doubts about whether it was, you know, they were sure it was him. You know, it seems like
00:41:30.740Koberger was much better at covering his tracks in general, left much less evidence of his
00:41:35.460involvement. And so it would have been, it just would have been a trickier trial. This is not
00:41:39.320that. I mean, you have the camera footage, the physical evidence. Yeah, go ahead. He was in fact
00:41:44.660a criminal justice. He's either a master's student or a PhD student, if I remember correctly. So he
00:41:51.220was actually studying criminology as he conducted his heinous action. So certainly something that
00:41:58.920he was far more familiar with than it seems Tyler Robinson would be. Right, exactly. And I think
00:42:05.080that, again, the evidence against Robinson is overwhelming. You have the video evidence,
00:42:08.580the physical evidence, DNA evidence, the testimonial evidence from his parents,
00:42:11.580The whole story of how he was arrested, I mean, his own text messages, twigs, I mean, it's just going to be overwhelming at trial.
00:42:19.700So I think – I suspect what's happening here is I don't think these prosecutors are even slightly interested in a plea deal, even for life in prison.
00:42:26.440I think they want – they are extremely confident they will get a conviction, and when they do, that they will seek the death penalty.
00:42:31.560Now, that said, looking forward to the preliminary hearing, two and a half weeks time kicks off right there.
00:42:39.020I believe it's July 6th is the first the first day of it there in Provo, Utah.
00:42:45.420What should we expect? So, you know, I imagine police officers, detectives, that's really when they're going to start presenting this in a way that just hasn't occurred yet with, you know,
00:42:55.920some limited releases, either at press conferences or a few things that have gone up on the docket.
00:43:01.560This will be the first time that a lot of the evidence is really unsealed in court.
00:43:07.640Yeah, I think that's it'll be a really good opportunity for the not just, you know, I mean, because I think, you know,
00:43:14.140they've already said that this is going to be public. We're going to see we're going to learn a lot about the case.
00:43:18.660We're going to learn and stuff that we haven't seen before, because, you know,
00:43:22.360This is the first time where prosecutors are really showing, like, what is the actual evidence we're going to bring to trial here?
00:43:27.800And, you know, we've seen plenty of it already.
00:43:30.480We had, obviously, all the evidence that was revealed in the immediate aftermath of the Kirk shooting.
00:43:35.840So, but there's, you know, they've had a full, almost a full year now to develop even more evidence, and I'm sure they've got quite a bit more.
00:44:13.100It's actually just to confirm that which has occurred, to convince someone of the of the, you know, veracity of the allegations.
00:44:22.360And maybe, you know, maybe, you know, if you're a judge, you might think to yourself, you want to resolve some of these admissibility questions beforehand if you could.
00:44:29.880I don't know. I mean, timing's obviously weird. Most of the, you know, the trial's still a long way away.
00:44:34.600But, no, that's – I think you're right.
00:44:36.520You know, the idea – the whole point is to have admissible evidence prejudice to jury one way or the other.
00:44:40.520That's why they bother showing it to you.
00:44:43.340Yeah, exactly. That's the whole point.
00:44:45.560That's the point of the system, folks.
00:44:47.080you don't get to argue that oh you know your honor there's too much evidence against my client we
00:44:52.500you know we shouldn't let potential jurors see this because yeah it's not fair it needs to be
00:44:56.220proportional right the the the prosecution and the defense need to have a proportional amount
00:45:00.200of evidence each in this trial otherwise it's unfair yeah we need to have evidence for our
00:45:05.080well do you have any has your has your client provided you any of their uh character witness
00:45:10.920it's even you know like i don't know an alibi or you know some some mitigating circumstance that
00:45:16.800you could point us to like you know feel free that's your job by the way as as his representative
00:45:22.540in court yeah uh i mean there i think you're we've seen this already over the course of the
00:45:29.900past year and we're going to see it more and more as we get closer and closer to trial it's not
00:45:34.620really a defensible case and so the defense attorneys are going to pull on every thread
00:45:38.680that they can in terms of procedural shenanigans to try and delay and obfuscate and you know drag
00:45:46.340their feet uh create doubt but um and so it'll look more and more bizarre as time goes on but
00:45:52.720this is just this is a very bad case this is this is an extraordinarily hard criminal defense
00:45:57.480i've said it time and again you know there's that there's that phrase that i think you were
00:46:02.200probably the first one who who told me about it years ago but uh you know when the uh when the
00:46:07.560facts are on your side pound the facts when law is on your side pound the law and when neither of
00:46:12.340those are on your side, pound the table. That's right. Pound the table. So I expect a lot of
00:46:16.640table pounding, you know, and, and, you know, let's, let's look, this is a case where the same,
00:46:22.300the same lawyer, um, as one of the, I guess the, the, uh, approved public defenders there in,
00:46:27.740in Utah, just, um, you know, just offended this, um, uh, Corey Ricens, I believe was the,
00:46:36.180was the name of the individual, the, the woman who murdered her husband with a Moscow mule over,
00:46:41.680embezzling of defense contractor payments, you know, just just a few months ago, which was
00:46:47.640extremely cocktail. How do you murder someone with a cocktail? Like, did you poison it?
00:46:51.500How does I'm curious? Poisoned a Moscow mule poison. Oh, my goodness. Okay. And this was
00:46:56.620I'll have to send you the details, but it was it was, in fact, the same Kathy and Esther who was
00:47:02.100I don't know if she was a lead lawyer, but she was on the team. And they did not even present
00:47:07.160a a defense in in brief um they did not even put on a a defense at all they just said you know this
00:47:13.780is uh you know this case is no good and this woman which horrific three children by the way um
00:47:20.360who who were murdered excuse me who are are now um essentially orphaned by this uh this woman's
00:47:28.200behavior um who the oldest of which i believe put out a statement said that we are we fear for our
00:47:33.620life because of our mom we're terrified of our mother and uh and so again you know in in one of
00:47:39.000these situations where that's that is kind of what you're left with sometimes because the facts
00:47:44.700just aren't on your side will chamberlain uh thank you so much for your work and analysis
00:47:51.420yeoman's work on all of this helping us to make sense of the legalese and perhaps uh perhaps who
00:47:57.580knows perhaps we will be doing some more in-depth coverage in the coming days where can people
00:48:02.020the volume at will chamberlain on x and follow the article 3 project a3paction.com all right
00:48:08.020ladies and gentlemen as always you have my permission to lay it short