Impaulsive with Logan Paul - Cliffe Knechtle Proves The Existence Of God To Logan Paul

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00:00:30.920 Lisa, tell them about our new show.

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00:01:30.000 Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman, Angela Jaritana, Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald, and we're

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00:02:12.740 You and I will go to heaven because we choose to live our lives together with God.

00:02:16.080 Sure about me, bro?

00:02:17.440 Comments are going crazy right now.

00:02:19.660 Three days after he dies, he physically, bodily rises from the dead.

00:02:23.100 And over a period of 40 days, he appears to over 500 people.

00:02:26.620 How do you know that?

00:02:28.460 Are you attracted to men?

00:02:29.380 No.

00:02:29.880 Why not?

00:02:30.180 Because that's the way I'm hardwired.

00:02:31.240 What if someone is hardwired the exact opposite way?

00:02:33.140 By their God.

00:02:33.720 And then not accepted by their God because God's book says we don't accept you.

00:02:36.800 He's a human being created in the image of God.

00:02:38.780 He has just as much value as I do, but he's messed up. 0.80

00:02:41.540 But comparing yourself to him is like comparing apples to a ****.

00:02:45.440 I understand you're an expectant father.

00:02:47.140 Little baby coming into the world?

00:02:48.120 Little baby girl.

00:02:48.700 Your mom was bragging to me about it.

00:02:50.020 Little baby girl. 0.99

00:02:50.660 Sounds good. 1.00

00:02:51.340 Let's say somebody **** that little baby. 1.00

00:02:53.000 God damn it, Cliff! 0.99

00:02:59.380 dude mike when's the last time we shot a podcast it's been a while you know what i was just 0.99

00:03:05.700 thinking if cliff had whatever product he promoted out right now it would just be the bible and it

00:03:10.840 would just be next to the prime in the do you want would you like to move these and replace

00:03:14.180 them all with bibles no we can or we could do you have one i didn't bring my bible what do you what

00:03:20.480 do you have though you came with a bunch of these are my papers what do you mean what do you mean

00:03:24.300 those go everywhere these go everywhere with me back pocket hold on a second you that's like you

00:03:28.960 have pages of notes you better believe it can i would you mind can i see one of them absolutely

00:03:33.860 you can see them all is it really are they handwritten and written check that handwriting

00:03:37.480 out man when you see something letters to a t when yo yo yo handwritten does it make you feel

00:03:42.340 like you're reading something that's more official and like legit or you spent time doing this you

00:03:47.380 this needs to be turned into a font really oh yeah a cliff font can i show what your handwriting

00:03:52.800 looks like it's wonderful comic sans whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa that's a good font no it's not

00:04:02.080 that it's just that probably with the f word on this particular podcast should i not be swearing

00:04:06.620 whatever you feel me do you two swear i better not yeah right i'm gonna do my best not to today

00:04:14.900 would you are these the these are cliff notes i know i use i know i use the joke pre-show

00:04:20.940 they gave me a courtesy laugh all right cliff i'm just i'm reading just a little bit i opened

00:04:26.820 up to a random page you know this particular stuff is a little like science rooted like you

00:04:32.420 okay so all right i'm gonna get started forgive me stewart as well um cliff necktely connectly

00:04:41.420 no that's awesome cliff connectly his son stewart connectly thank you guys for joining us on impulsive

00:04:49.360 we like to start with a little energy um theology and uh christian experts pastor pastor um i've had

00:05:00.020 such an interesting relationship with christianity religion in itself i'm so curious about it as well

00:05:05.440 and i'm honored to have you on the podcast because you are so well versed in the subject and i think

00:05:10.880 anytime i get to sit down with a master of any sort of art or discipline it is an honor so i'm

00:05:16.240 going to be picking your brain today i have a whole pdf full of notes because i think there's

00:05:20.600 a lot of rich subject matter we can talk about um but yeah thanks for joining us guys thanks for

00:05:25.960 coming back to this episode of impulsive you're not subscribed hit the subscribe button i'm going

00:05:29.940 to wear these is that's cool you all don't have to i assume you don't wear headphones when you

00:05:34.460 preach some correct some people some people cliff do you do understand the uh paradox uh of what

00:05:43.960 you're coming into today do you understand his current uh perceived relationship with with christ

00:05:49.920 and with god and christianity do either i'm looking forward to hearing it i heard a little

00:05:54.620 bit of the akon one so got a little bit in there oh that's all you got oh okay that's all i got

00:05:59.220 was the akon okay that was actually a good episode to listen to amazing episode so so yeah i'm sure

00:06:03.540 i'm sure it'll be oh thank you sir brought up in the comments immediately is that what you're gonna

00:06:09.300 say no no i mean look i i don't i don't think it's abnormal to have like a fluid relationship

00:06:18.300 with with god or spirituality or religion in general and like i think i'm one of those people

00:06:23.720 i fall into that category where like at the moment i'm unwilling to like subscribe to any

00:06:28.780 particular religion but i am spiritual i believe in a god i believe in a higher power i pray i say

00:06:36.260 amen, but I'm not really sure like how I land where I land. My mom is Christian. I was raised

00:06:43.180 Christian. And then I think I grew out of it and just became a little bit more curious about the

00:06:48.760 world. But just I want to qualify you just for the audience who doesn't know you, if you don't

00:06:55.280 mind. What denomination are you subscribed to? And then how did you arrive there? We pastor an

00:07:03.520 inter-denominational church, I'm convinced the issue is not, are you Catholic or Protestant?

00:07:07.840 Rather, the issue is, how have you responded to Jesus Christ? And I think a lot of Catholics don't

00:07:12.180 know Christ. They've never really personally connected with him by putting their faith in

00:07:15.740 him. But I think a lot of Catholics have put their faith in Christ. Same with Protestants. A lot of

00:07:19.620 Protestants don't know Christ. They're just into a dead ritual called Protestantism in America. 0.73

00:07:25.480 But there are a lot of Protestants that obviously have a genuine faith in Christ. So we're more

00:07:30.140 concerned about how have you responded to jesus christ not how have you responded to organized

00:07:34.860 religion does it lean this inter denominational uh position that you guys have does it lean

00:07:41.520 towards any one directionality or or is it like dead so we're both fathers so we obviously are

00:07:47.820 not catholic priests we are not celibate we have children for sure and i have grandchildren and

00:07:52.400 he has three daughters who i love and congrats so it's an incredible experience so we're not

00:07:57.980 catholic but i have a great deal of respect for the catholic church when it follows christ similar

00:08:04.400 to america america is great when america follows christ america gets real ugly real fast when it

00:08:09.720 does not follow christ same with the church when the church follows jesus christ it's a beautiful

00:08:14.160 thing and when it does not follow christ and there are sadly too many examples of that

00:08:18.820 it turns tragic and ugly real fast how does that not put stain at least on some parts of

00:08:27.040 i guess just religion in general it does put a stain you're absolutely right logan but now the

00:08:32.040 challenge is look at our african-american followers of christ they have grandparents 0.97

00:08:37.100 and great-grandparents who's who were enslaved by white christians unquote how hypocritical 0.96

00:08:43.280 and yet our african-american brothers and sisters have not given white christian racists the power 0.99

00:08:48.180 to turn them off to the true christ who did not have a racist bone in his body

00:08:51.920 i was gonna ask you some questions about those uh not to use the word paradox but paradoxical

00:08:59.920 moments in religion um your your guys are both from connecticut or live in connecticut now i'm

00:09:06.240 from connecticut myself um was in connecticut when uh when sandy hook happened were you guys

00:09:13.580 also there yep um and i was curious we're kind of going to be all over the place today it's

00:09:18.840 hard probably to keep a completely linear path especially running off the three hours of sleep

00:09:23.480 that i had on this flight over here today in a middle-class economy and we'll get into that i

00:09:28.920 want to ask you some questions about hell i want to ask you some questions about hell later because

00:09:33.280 i believe i was there just a couple hours ago as i was getting battered by bags in the hallway

00:09:38.160 um in those paradoxical moments uh like sandy hook uh or or the the um the the slave ownership

00:09:47.680 that you talked about um what do you what do you think god is is trying to teach us in moments like

00:09:53.660 that and and how for for non-believers who ask like how are moments like that even possible in

00:09:58.600 in a world where god exists great question stewart

00:10:01.660 you know you got to start with i have no idea any pastor preacher spiritual leader who says oh

00:10:10.380 here's the answer you just got to run from them as fast as possible so you gotta start with i

00:10:14.680 don't know secondly you got to start with it's a sin issue do you know what i mean that's got to

00:10:19.120 be up front if there's if genesis chapter three talks about a great fall and great breakdown that

00:10:24.680 cracked the door wide open for any type of entropy to occur thirdly i'd go with well if there is no

00:10:32.240 god then there is no ultimate moral obligation there is no type of immaterial out there it's

00:10:37.800 just all material like we're sitting on a couch right now and the immaterial information that

00:10:42.480 we're speaking, well, that's a type of spirituality involved. So what is the alternative is my

00:10:47.980 question. Why is it so wrong if there is no God? Because everybody brings up this word evil with

00:10:53.760 Sandy Hook. Well, that's a religious term. If you don't believe in God, what is evil? That term

00:10:59.860 doesn't even make any sense. You have to have God to have evil because it ushers in moral obligation.

00:11:04.200 This is really right. This is really wrong. Next, I would say that we have a suffering servant.

00:11:09.020 you know i think you're a christian right yes sir i mean we worship the only god who claims to

00:11:14.640 suffer with us and historically suffered himself in the worst way imaginal physically and spiritually

00:11:19.720 on that cross and then lastly you know what are you going to turn to we're at the beds of those

00:11:26.100 who are suffering all the time we just had a funeral last night we performed and if you're

00:11:30.920 an atheist and you go in there it's just like tough luck you know life ends just just accept

00:11:36.100 it naturalize it's totally normal that's scary versus look there's eternity out there and we all 0.88

00:11:41.740 want that now the question is is there evidence for it perhaps there is have you been ever

00:11:49.020 challenged because i know you guys go on college campuses a lot um and just open invite to just

00:11:53.900 talk about the bible have you ever been challenged with some sort of scientific explanation about

00:11:58.460 what happens after you die i have a theory but i'd like that answer

00:12:03.420 i'm big on ndes i think you're a little slower on near-death experiences what are ndes is it

00:12:11.980 something you sign so that you can't talk about your experience yeah yeah basically it's so the

00:12:16.380 near-death experience is it's you basically pass into unconsciousness you're flatlined yep but duke

00:12:22.580 has done this comprehensive study which is crazy like again i was no i thought ndes were just

00:12:27.360 ridiculous early on but now there's like 300 peer-reviewed articles where someone has left

00:12:33.520 their body yep they flatline and they've actually gone down the hall and read a medical chart 0.91

00:12:40.640 then they revive and explain exactly what that chart says yep and this is a duke yeah this is

00:12:46.800 not like you know some near-death experience exactly documented near-death experiences that

00:12:52.080 are fascinating where people often describe a similar experience what is the kind when you

00:12:56.240 you say similar what is the commonality between the multitudes of those nds ndes that have happened

00:13:03.580 i think the commonality is leaving your body a floating experience that's typically what they

00:13:11.060 say that's often pleasant extremely pleasant yes this just sounds meeting a light just sounds like

00:13:15.840 acid right it does dmt i had a very unpleasant acid trip and then there's some type of a common

00:13:25.080 agreement over what was what was seen if it was if two people were in the room yeah so it sounds

00:13:32.020 like you've heard more as well uh i i just watched the uh what is it like a unexplained

00:13:37.800 william shatner near-death experiences on netflix but but no it's fascinating and i believe there's

00:13:44.120 also a study that was conducted um where there was like an observable amount of energy that

00:13:50.040 leaves the body after someone passes away uh is that the soul potentially right because energy

00:14:00.240 can neither be created or destroyed there's a finite amount in the universe that traceable i

00:14:05.740 mean that's at least what the science i've been told says right um but i have a question about

00:14:12.800 the soul as well because um i'm so confused what that means people say oh you have no soul or like

00:14:19.220 it's in your soul or you know say it with your soul what does that mean to you guys well the soul

00:14:26.000 is the person the soul is the real you the real me at at at the point in which they are presently

00:14:33.060 you have a soul i believe i have a soul we all have souls which means we have personhood which

00:14:39.260 means you're not just a complex biochemical reaction i mean think about it if there is no god

00:14:43.280 you and i are simply robots flash puppets exactly yeah that's all we are yeah and it's really

00:14:48.940 fascinating to listen to an atheist a secularist a materialist insist oh no no no there's more to

00:14:54.540 us than that really sorry if there is no creator who creates us then we are matter and energy

00:15:00.360 evolved to a higher order that's good to hard science which means there's no soul there's no

00:15:05.440 you there's no me there's a complex chemical reaction in our brains that we call ourselves

00:15:10.260 but that's an illusion because the real you is simply a chemical reaction. Now, my experience

00:15:15.440 of life says that's baloney. My experience of life says there is a real you. That's why I hold

00:15:19.720 you responsible for the way you treat your mother, your friend, because I don't think you have to do

00:15:24.040 what you do because you've been chemically programmed. Instead, you're a human being

00:15:27.720 created in the image of God with a soul, which means a free will, the ability to love or to hate,

00:15:33.800 the ability to forgive or seek revenge. You have a rational mind. You don't have to think a certain

00:15:39.100 way you don't have to believe something you choose to well the only reason way that can be real is

00:15:44.180 if there is more to you than your complex chemical reactions there's got to be a soul a you a me

00:15:49.840 but a me and a you is partially made up of our human experience exactly so how much does a human

00:15:59.600 experience play into what your soul becomes you bet all right so if my dad would have been an

00:16:05.660 alcoholic. And you ask me, Cliff, why are you an alcoholic? And I say, well, because my dad was an

00:16:10.520 alcoholic. And then I've got five younger siblings, none of whom are alcoholics. And you ask them,

00:16:14.700 well, why are you not alcoholics? And they say, because my dad was an alcoholic. See, what we're

00:16:18.540 getting at is, yes, we're all influenced by the environment we grew up in, no question about it.

00:16:23.620 But then we choose what we're going to do with that environment. And I can choose to use my dad

00:16:28.500 being an alcoholic to justify me being an alcoholic. Or I can say, you know something,

00:16:31.880 i'm never going to touch a drop of alcohol because my dad was an alcoholic and i saw how

00:16:36.120 destructive it was in his life so we're still free although we're influenced by our environment but

00:16:41.560 we're free i don't have to love you i can hate your guts i don't have to forgive you i can seek

00:16:45.500 revenge i don't have to do either based on what you guys believe is the essence of the soul the

00:16:54.360 deciding factor upon whether a person goes to heaven or hell or what is the decision you and

00:17:02.400 i will go to heaven because we choose to live our lives together with god sure about me bro

00:17:06.200 comments are going crazy right now jesus promises you logan eternal life if you put your faith in

00:17:13.180 him okay and his resurrection from the dead points to him being reliable he's not a quack

00:17:19.000 i mean if jesus had said i'm going to die and then rise from the dead and if he wouldn't have

00:17:22.500 pulled it off i would not believe in it but the fact that he died and then rose from the dead

00:17:27.660 historically is solid evidence that he indeed is reliable if you die and rise from the dead

00:17:34.160 i promise to listen very carefully to everything you have to say jesus died rose from the dead

00:17:39.260 that's why it's a no-brainer you've got to take him seriously dude i've been on the road for ages

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00:20:08.280 and Kabir are celebrating 50 years

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00:20:34.020 approved. Lisa,

00:20:35.780 we should tell them about our new show.

00:20:38.280 Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me.

00:20:42.780 I'm Lexi Iwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart.

00:20:48.320 And I'm Lisi DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references,

00:20:52.940 occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

00:20:57.360 I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today.

00:21:02.700 now in my 30s being the founder of new shoes good taste is my business and i've always got

00:21:10.140 something to say if men were just honest about this there would be so much more peace in the

00:21:14.840 world we're gonna talk about dating relationships beauty getting older and a little wiser we're

00:21:20.580 best friends but we don't always agree because you told us how accommodating you are obviously

00:21:25.660 i would do what i think i could do to to fight the fight but there's only so much fight i can fight

00:21:30.500 Don't lie to me.

00:21:31.560 Don't lie to me.

00:21:32.740 Don't lie to me.

00:21:34.100 Don't lie to me.

00:21:35.340 Don't lie to me.

00:21:36.340 Don't lie to me. 1.00

00:21:37.160 Liar. 0.94

00:21:37.940 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0.98

00:21:42.820 I don't really care.

00:21:44.900 Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman.

00:21:46.820 Angela Geritana.

00:21:47.760 Jeremy Culhane.

00:21:48.460 Patrick McDonald.

00:21:49.380 And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast.

00:21:53.200 The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft.

00:21:58.760 Join us for a panel of wellness influencers.

00:22:01.860 What I try to do is faux journal.

00:22:05.000 I don't know.

00:22:05.380 Have you guys heard of faux journaling?

00:22:06.680 Yeah, it's reading.

00:22:07.560 It's called reading.

00:22:08.180 So we don't like to use that word anymore.

00:22:11.180 Okay.

00:22:11.460 A panel of New Yorker cartoonists.

00:22:13.380 Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class?

00:22:16.080 No!

00:22:17.020 I've been dying too.

00:22:19.120 I'm so sorry.

00:22:19.920 I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald at the Wonderland

00:22:25.760 Bookstore on 14th.

00:22:26.820 That's crazy.

00:22:27.260 I went to the Wonderland Bookstore.

00:22:28.500 yesterday and i heard norah jones do a reading of zero dark 30 no way we'll have to come to the

00:22:33.680 last bookstore though kim cattrall is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday a panel of eurovision

00:22:41.000 participants and we do a little halloween sometimes does the pope dress up he he winks

00:22:46.620 on halloween it's right up next to the microphone i hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each

00:22:52.200 other you never seen italy so quiet as when the pope gets up to wink on halloween listen to

00:22:58.440 artists on artists on artists on artists on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you

00:23:03.420 get your podcasts beyond that prerequisite of acceptance of christ into your to your heart and

00:23:09.320 a continued path of following christ as a as a way to uh gain access to the kingdom of heaven

00:23:15.600 um are there any other prerequisites beyond that or on the flip side what are some ways to get your

00:23:23.500 ticket canceled uh i want to talk a little bit about mortal sins today and and and how forgiveness

00:23:28.380 applies to those and especially uh if you guys have any mortal sins that aren't listed for me

00:23:34.520 uh there's a guy on the plane today that was watching uh youtube videos with no headphones

00:23:39.020 on full volume of course uh at six in the morning and he was just he he thought it was okay to watch

00:23:46.240 music videos latino music videos at six in the morning in full volume in my eyes you go directly

00:23:54.740 to hell like there's no coming back from that i walked over i said hermano this is not okay 0.53

00:24:00.960 they're giving out free headphones why are you doing this to me i feel like you're directing 0.64

00:24:05.740 this directly at me so what are what are the mortal sins that that um you know people have

00:24:13.420 to avoid or or i mean we know some of them i'm assuming murder and i learned about some of this

00:24:18.600 but refreshing yeah can you can you list them out and by the way the mortal sin means if you commit

00:24:23.380 this you're you're doomed you're not there's no chance or is that or is that what it means when

00:24:28.040 jesus was dying on the cross two thieves were hung on either side of them yeah they were criminals

00:24:32.240 they were guilty the first thief turns to jesus and says come on miracle boy get us off these

00:24:36.900 crosses and then based on that we'll believe in you second criminal turns the first criminal and 1.00

00:24:41.340 says, you fool, we bleed and die here because we deserve it. But this Jesus, he's the innocent, 0.99

00:24:45.240 holy, pure son of God. And the second criminal turns to Jesus and says, remember me when you

00:24:49.220 come into your kingdom. Now, right there, Jesus' value system is on the line. He could look the

00:24:53.660 guy in the face and said, get down off of here to say 12 Hail Marys, work in a soup kitchen,

00:24:57.540 and if you do a good enough job, maybe you'll make it. He didn't say that. Instead, he said,

00:25:01.700 I tell you the truth, today you'll be with me in paradise. And that's grace. That's amazing grace,

00:25:07.260 God's undeserved offer of forgiveness, his generosity. Now, when you read the Gospels,

00:25:13.720 and I would encourage you guys to read them, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, because they're

00:25:16.500 the eyewitness testimonies about Jesus, what you'll notice is Jesus reserved his most scathing 0.97

00:25:21.540 words for religious hypocrites. And the reason is because hypocrisy is pretending to be someone I 0.97

00:25:29.060 am not. If I say that I believe in Jesus and talk with you about God and then walk out of here and

00:25:34.160 seek to womanize you'd point your bony finger in my face and say cliff you're one flaming hypocrite 0.99

00:25:39.500 and you'd be right so jesus points out that i'm not going to heaven because i live 0.99

00:25:44.860 a good life i'm going to heaven because of his grace his offer of forgiveness but if my faith

00:25:49.820 in him is genuine it'll be shown in the way i love him honor him and obey him but wouldn't that put a

00:25:56.420 lot of uh i guess in this the way you're describing so-called christians or christians

00:26:03.880 at risk uh because we are all imperfect christians so at the end of the day do we all in some way

00:26:11.600 become those uh religious hypocrites that you're describing so you and i are playing ball together 0.57

00:26:16.440 you block my shot when you land i elbow you i say man i'm really sorry would you please forgive me 0.99

00:26:22.320 you say yes cliff thank i forgive you secondly you block my shot a second time you come down 0.96

00:26:27.100 and boom i elbow you all right now either i'm a hypocrite or i've got a bad habit with my temper 0.97

00:26:33.160 A Christian is someone who has bad habits, and I got a bunch of them. 0.77

00:26:36.160 I've had to pray for forgiveness for my pride, for my greed, every day, almost, basically.

00:26:41.500 It doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite. It means I got some bad habits.

00:26:44.680 A hypocrite is someone who's playing a game, a stupid game. 1.00

00:26:48.840 If I say to you, I'm sorry for elbowing you, but I can hardly wait to do it again, 1.00

00:26:53.480 you don't have to have a PhD in psychology to figure out, this is one hypocritical dude. 0.98

00:26:58.420 Got it. 0.99

00:26:59.220 It sounds like intent. It sounds like intent matters.

00:27:02.100 well put the heart exactly intent motive exactly because i've seen basically what you just described

00:27:09.300 with christians like or or anyone just pretending to be someone they're not like it that's right

00:27:14.660 that happens but i don't know how often it happens where you find someone who's doing it intentionally

00:27:18.860 like i know i know people who i just think that's just like how they are they might have a bad temper

00:27:24.020 they might snap they might be willing to forgive the next second um but i mean there's there's

00:27:28.620 there's people, um, even just right now parading around on social media, um, being like bad actors,

00:27:35.260 just not, just not good humans, deceitful lying. Um, and then, and then they're using, um, Jesus

00:27:42.800 or, or, or their, their beliefs as a crutch to fall back on. And, and, and they go from bad

00:27:47.680 to good instantaneously and people buy it. Yep. Where, where does that person sit in, in your

00:27:55.680 mind i could just i would never judge that person because i have no idea where their heart is fair

00:28:01.700 i see their hypocritical living and yet again i don't know if they're going to repent later

00:28:05.740 or not like the thief on the cross easily so so so is that a bit of like a cop-out to be honest

00:28:10.780 with you i i wonder if i wonder if someone can just live a whole life being bad or or acting

00:28:19.440 morally and then at the last second they're on the deathbed and they're like i accept you jesus

00:28:25.000 and then it that's a pass for them isn't that the freakish thing though about grace you know i think

00:28:31.060 we all want forgiveness even for our enemies and it's only christianity that says forgive your

00:28:36.000 enemies historically it's been the only faith that says that and so you know when christ says

00:28:40.840 forgive your enemy 70 times seven like i screw up all the time i want that like that's super

00:28:47.180 attractive to me not the hinduism approach where i'm going to come back as a cockroach if i do

00:28:51.740 x y and z wrong so i think that is is what is so important in understanding christianity i think

00:28:58.180 there's two ways where we can really use god one is you just turn away from him and say you know

00:29:03.620 screw you god i'm out of here the other way is i'm going to use you by being a perfect person

00:29:08.500 because then i get you in my debt if that makes sense i'm a perfect person so you owe me god 0.99

00:29:14.680 god of the universe who created everything you owe me so that's why i think it's it's bad to to

00:29:23.300 try and live this perfect life and say all right god give me that ticket i'm saying i'm saying

00:29:30.260 someone who doesn't live the perfect life i'm saying someone who leads a life of deceit lies

00:29:36.860 is there is there an example of the person that you're discussing specifically because it almost

00:29:42.520 feels like you're talking about a certain no no no there was when i was talking about someone

00:29:47.200 creating around on social media but like to me that like dude i don't know if there's like a

00:29:51.820 worst type of person who's using uh god as like a shield to uh put merit to their bad actions

00:30:00.680 that's horrible um does that turn you off though to the real god me personally yeah no no no because

00:30:07.680 a lot of people happens like thousands actually you know you know what if i'm if i'm being not

00:30:11.920 like turn off isn't the right word it just makes me doubt and i don't think that's like the the

00:30:16.860 unusual out the person or doubt god it it makes me it just i don't know i don't i mean definitely

00:30:22.440 doubt the person not doubt god because again i believe in god that belief's not going away

00:30:26.260 it's just like okay this is a bad human being who is using jesus as a protector to convince

00:30:34.160 other people who believe in jesus that he's a good human being that's horrible and by the way

00:30:40.920 who am i to say this is a bad human well that's what i was gonna say at a base level like is do

00:30:45.920 you guys believe that there are bad and good human beings i think it's real clear that we all do good

00:30:51.800 at times and we all do bad at times one of my favorite 60 minute shows was when mike wallace

00:30:58.340 years ago interviewed yihil denur survival of survivor of the holocaust and he showed yihil

00:31:04.580 denur during their interview a small clip of yihil denur entering the courtroom where adolf

00:31:10.320 Eichmann, the guy who slaughtered millions of Jews in Dachau and Auschwitz and Vukenwald.

00:31:15.980 And Yehildonur walks down the aisle in the courtroom with Adolf Eichmann sitting behind

00:31:20.260 the glass in the front. He walks up to Adolf Eichmann, looks him in the face, and collapses,

00:31:25.980 weeping. And Mike Wallace looks at Yehildonur and says, what were you feeling? Were you just

00:31:30.520 overcome with the evil of this guy? Yehildonur said no. When I looked into the face of Adolf

00:31:36.440 Eichmann, I realized I was looking into the face of the typical human being. There's a bit of Adolf

00:31:42.440 Eichmann in all of us. That's what Jesus pointed out. Jesus pointed out we all do good at times.

00:31:48.840 We're all created in the image of God. We all have conscience, so every single human being does good

00:31:52.480 at times, and we all do evil at times. That is why every single one of us needs Jesus Christ,

00:31:58.360 his forgiveness his grace his strength to change wow look the power of forgiveness is

00:32:05.780 undeniably incredible it's also undeniably hard yep you know what i'm saying like that's that's

00:32:12.540 an impossible thing to do sometimes or so it feels at least um have you mastered forgiveness

00:32:17.380 are you still working on it i am still working on it i have discovered that when someone hurts

00:32:23.420 me badly enough i cannot just forgive them once because tomorrow the memory will come back and i

00:32:29.800 can't believe what they did to me and i'm gonna have to give them a second time and then next

00:32:34.320 week it's going to come back again in the week after that so the people who've really hurt me

00:32:38.160 the most in life i've had to forgive over 100 times who are these people who are to hurt

00:32:44.420 why would you ever want to hurt this man if you're watching this you've done harm to cliff

00:32:51.280 or his son you're i don't forgive you i'm still mad to be honest with you i'm mad i don't even

00:32:57.400 know you are what you did but i'm mad what are some what are some examples like without being

00:33:03.520 getting too personal of that the type of forgiveness you've had to offer and how did

00:33:08.300 you get there i guess one of the first examples is when i went to college i wanted to play major

00:33:12.180 college basketball so i went to a college that was d1 and i barely made the team i was the worst

00:33:20.400 player on the team. In fact, when the team went out to play UCLA, the coach came up to me in the

00:33:24.020 locker room before and said, Cliff, I'm really sorry that there's not a seat on the plane for

00:33:28.080 you. So they left me behind. So that gives you an idea where I was. Oh, that's horrible. But there

00:33:33.080 was, there was a guy who would stand on the sidewalk and he would mock me every time I would

00:33:37.700 make a mistake. And I, to tell you the truth, I tried to love the guy. I really hated his guts

00:33:43.240 and I tried to love him. I tried to forgive him, but I failed miserably. And it was not till I got

00:33:49.460 to the point in my life where i said jesus i can't love this guy i hate him i need you to give me the

00:33:55.320 strength to change because i can't stand this guy he's standing between me and what i want to do

00:33:59.300 most in life at that time play major college basketball and christ did it he gave me the

00:34:04.640 strength to love a guy who in my own strength no way was i gonna love that dude you know it's

00:34:11.000 interesting as well i think hatred and just like resentment in general anger is like a it's heavy

00:34:16.260 it's a heavy feeling to hold in your heart so i i always try to apply like a bit of logic maybe to

00:34:23.180 what i do in my actions and carrying that around i don't think serves me in a positive way and so

00:34:31.560 in the hardest moments in my life where i've had to forgive people or move on um besides the fact

00:34:38.100 that i i actually looked at jesus as an example then because um just i think he's just

00:34:45.380 postered poster child of morality and like you know he he did it one of the hardest moments of

00:34:52.640 my life i i was literally like what would jesus do here and and it served me very well um but

00:34:59.080 besides that it just i don't know if i want to always be moving through life with that anger

00:35:03.660 in my heart and that's not always easy for me cliff like my dad's a fireball he likes to correct

00:35:10.980 people who wrong him i'm i'm a fighter at heart and sometimes i can be vengeful sometimes i can

00:35:18.020 want revenge more more so than that even i want justice you know i i i okay bad man

00:35:28.580 no no but seriously if i could i would be a vigilante i swear to god i'd put on a

00:35:34.580 cape and run around new york city and i just like beat up bad guys but i can't because it's illegal

00:35:38.780 but I can hold people accountable to the best of my ability.

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00:37:12.700 Lisa, we should tell them about our new show.

00:37:16.000 Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast.

00:37:18.740 It's called Don't Lie to Me.

00:37:20.100 I'm Lexi Iwanu.

00:37:21.300 We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart.

00:37:25.320 And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one,

00:37:28.100 which means we have wildly different references,

00:37:30.380 occasionally different opinions.

00:37:31.660 And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

00:37:34.460 I'm not going to get anywhere fighting.

00:37:37.320 That is wild.

00:37:38.780 I learned that about you today.

00:37:41.400 Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes,

00:37:44.600 Good Taste is my business,

00:37:46.560 and I've always got something to say.

00:37:48.760 If men were just honest about this,

00:37:50.880 there would be so much more peace in the world.

00:37:52.760 We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty,

00:37:55.960 getting older, and a little wiser.

00:37:57.840 We're best friends, but we don't always agree.

00:38:00.180 Because you told us how accommodating you are.

00:38:02.700 Obviously, I would do what I think I could do

00:38:04.960 to fight the fight,

00:38:06.100 but there's only so much fight I can fight.

00:38:07.660 don't lie to me don't lie to me don't lie to me don't lie to me don't lie to me don't lie to me

00:38:14.480 liar listen on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

00:38:20.100 i don't really care i'm lacey mosley author actor stand-up comedian creator and host of

00:38:26.640 scam goddess podcast the true crime comedy podcast all about robbery fraud and those who practice it

00:38:32.680 Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debrey, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer.

00:38:39.080 Ooh, I scammed them.

00:38:40.260 What?

00:38:40.740 I could talk to you for an hour.

00:38:42.260 You're a generational yapper, like me.

00:38:44.280 That's why I had to make yapping a job.

00:38:46.260 And the scams run the gamut.

00:38:48.320 I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today.

00:38:53.160 I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers.

00:38:56.920 Call your grandparents.

00:38:58.440 Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please.

00:39:01.300 And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube.

00:39:05.180 If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you.

00:39:07.620 And I'm also here to laugh with you.

00:39:09.700 So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals,

00:39:14.800 start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:39:20.640 Scam Goddess!

00:39:22.820 And it's something I try to do not only for other people who wrong me, but also for myself.

00:39:28.680 I made a huge mistake in 2017.

00:39:30.820 i'm sure you guys know about it it evolved it was it was in japan and like i had to take a serious

00:39:36.020 look at myself in the mirror and decide who i wanted to be and how i became this person who

00:39:41.620 did that thing and the amount of accountability that i took for that and the teachings that that

00:39:49.320 led me and brought me through um now i carry every day i think accountability is like a super

00:39:57.260 powerful tool and i think you know religion specifically jesus can help with that um i want

00:40:03.540 to i want to touch on the soul thing really quick because this this has always intrigued me um

00:40:07.700 okay so the soul is the person that that can be shaped by human experience

00:40:12.700 so like if you have if you were to like run a simulation of like cliff a hundred simulations

00:40:19.000 of the life of cliff in some future distant world do you become a pastor in all 100 of those

00:40:24.420 simulations is every one of those simulations is cliff a good guy especially if the human experience

00:40:29.400 that each cliff experience or goes to is different um and then does your soul become a different

00:40:35.040 thing and then also i i i asked myself like okay what is the soul because you're saying it's shaped

00:40:42.820 by human experience but like what about like a baby or or or like a child like say a child passes

00:40:49.180 away and they're like you know essentially a blank canvas what what happens to that soul what

00:40:54.960 if that that human hasn't accepted jesus because he's four well that's why they baptize babies

00:40:59.140 right well i'm convinced though that babies who die are going to be in heaven yeah because of

00:41:04.360 the way jesus treated children he said let the little children come to me for to such belongs

00:41:08.480 the kingdom of heaven so god is a compassionate god and obviously a child has not baby has not

00:41:13.860 sinned they've not rebelled against god so i think they're going to be in heaven but i think you raise

00:41:18.380 a great question when it comes to Cliff. If there were a hundred different scenarios over the next

00:41:23.240 thousand years of you, would you always become a minister? I don't think so, because that smacks

00:41:30.120 of determinism. It's in the stars. It's written in the stars. You have to do this. You have to go

00:41:34.260 down this path. No, no. When I fall down a set of stairs, I don't pick myself up at the bottom and

00:41:38.240 say, whew, glad that's over. No, I pick myself up at the bottom and say, idiot, pick up your feet. 1.00

00:41:43.460 Don't stumble down the stairs. It's really painful. In other words, it's not been predetermined. 1.00

00:41:49.200 That's this whole issue of free will.

00:41:51.400 That's why I hold you responsible and you hold me responsible for what I do, for what I say.

00:41:56.480 Because you know I don't have to do it.

00:41:58.300 It's not a script.

00:41:59.300 Exactly.

00:41:59.780 It's not a script.

00:42:00.680 This whole idea that God writes on a piece of paper, which you and I are going to do tomorrow,

00:42:03.680 locks it in a bank vault, and then you and I have to do what's written on the paper.

00:42:07.120 That's determinism.

00:42:08.060 That's fatalism.

00:42:09.240 No, no, no, no.

00:42:10.220 No, we're human beings created in the image of God, which means God partially limits his power

00:42:14.780 by giving us a free will, and then we choose what we do.

00:42:18.620 But God does hold us responsible, and that's why I love what you pointed out

00:42:21.660 about the importance of responsibility.

00:42:23.940 But you know, Logan, you and Jesus are, I think, a little closer

00:42:26.460 than you might realize when you talk about justice.

00:42:29.000 Oh, man, that's going to get clipped up, man.

00:42:30.300 Okay?

00:42:31.160 Justice.

00:42:31.860 That's going everywhere.

00:42:33.300 The reason is, the reason is, why did Christ die on a cross?

00:42:38.000 He didn't die on a cross because God is lovey-dovey.

00:42:40.520 He died on a cross because God is just.

00:42:42.820 and because god is just the penalty for evil is death and hell and christ went to the cross

00:42:49.000 paid that penalty why because god's lovey-dovey no because god is just the penalty for human evil

00:42:56.920 must be paid oh that's not cool that's not cool oh that's very cool i understand you're an expectant

00:43:02.740 father little baby coming into the world little baby your mom was bragging to me about it yeah

00:43:06.840 Baby girl.

00:43:07.280 Sounds good.

00:43:07.940 Yep.

00:43:08.340 All right, Logan.

00:43:09.400 Now, let's talk theoretically.

00:43:11.760 Okay. 0.99

00:43:12.420 Let's say somebody murders that little baby. 1.00

00:43:14.240 God damn it, Cliff. 1.00

00:43:15.620 I didn't even get a chance to do anything. 0.99

00:43:17.760 I didn't even make one video.

00:43:20.080 Good response, Logan.

00:43:21.840 Horrific.

00:43:22.280 I wasn't expecting this.

00:43:24.660 Cliff, come on.

00:43:25.700 Good response.

00:43:26.600 Yo, that's the hook.

00:43:27.540 Sorry, Grandma.

00:43:29.260 Sorry, Ma.

00:43:30.320 Ex-Grandma.

00:43:30.960 She didn't make it. 1.00

00:43:32.080 Damn, dude. 1.00

00:43:33.240 Okay, I love your response. 1.00

00:43:35.000 Why?

00:43:35.320 Why? Because you know very well that if the police or the judge lets that dude off scot-free,

00:43:41.680 your baby does not matter. Now, what's fascinating is the way so many secular people will say,

00:43:48.320 well, God's just love, so there's going to be no judgment. Really? So God doesn't judge the guy

00:43:53.720 who murders my child? That's a clear statement on God's part. Your child, Cliff, does not matter to

00:44:00.060 me. Therefore, I will not judge the guy who murdered your kid. Well, let's get one thing

00:44:05.160 straight. God doesn't care about your kid. Your kid does not matter to God. And that's a lie.

00:44:11.580 Jesus said, no, God does care about every single one of us, which is why when we hurt each other,

00:44:16.800 when we cut each other off at the knees, God will judge us for that because he loves us because we

00:44:24.720 matter to him. Does that make any sense? It totally makes sense. But again, it just sounds

00:44:29.120 like like intent really matters it sounds like but i've also had people tell me in like the

00:44:34.540 mistakes that i've made like sometimes intent doesn't matter at least at least in this human

00:44:38.900 world sometimes your intent doesn't matter what's that saying the pathway to hell is paved with the

00:44:45.360 best intent yep yeah yeah um so so it sounds like god is like a uh or when i say god is it that's

00:44:53.060 Jesus as well.

00:44:53.820 Jesus, God, Holy Spirit.

00:44:55.140 And the Holy Spirit.

00:44:55.780 Yep, and the Holy Spirit.

00:44:57.040 Okay, okay.

00:44:57.900 Because just for the listeners,

00:44:59.560 like when I say God to them,

00:45:00.840 you know, it might be a different God.

00:45:03.040 We got to talk about that too.

00:45:04.140 Yeah, we got to talk about that.

00:45:05.020 Continue on.

00:45:05.460 It sounds like he's like,

00:45:07.640 he is the measure of whether

00:45:09.440 or not someone is morally sound

00:45:11.360 and he is constantly

00:45:12.560 all-knowing and calculating

00:45:15.340 about someone's intent.

00:45:16.940 It's just like you can't hide from God,

00:45:18.380 essentially.

00:45:18.880 Like if I know like,

00:45:20.120 if I know like I'm playing

00:45:21.140 in a basketball game,

00:45:21.960 like you mentioned earlier,

00:45:22.720 and uh mike goes up for a layup and i i already blocks my shot and uh he comes down maybe i don't

00:45:28.760 give him that elbow maybe i stick my foot out later later in the game you know i know it was

00:45:32.840 in temple but that's how my spleen was ruptured when i was 16 so actually so what was the person's

00:45:38.180 name uh i believe it was tj unfortunately so tj god knows that tj tripped mike on purpose and

00:45:45.260 had to get his spleen replaced and that's why he ended up doing heroin is tj

00:45:49.080 being judged by God in that moment and can he hide his intentions from God

00:45:54.320 God is watching God is watching us always oh man that's a really bummer idea oh no no no no

00:46:03.760 God is watching has been one of the most powerful civilizing influences in the world

00:46:10.960 because when you live your life understanding God is watching me then you got to ask yourself

00:46:16.780 should i really do this or should i not i begin to reconsider i begin to ask myself the difficult

00:46:23.820 ethical question is this the why is this best thing to do in this circumstance or is it not

00:46:28.320 i ask that question constantly i and to a point of uh obsession and i get very i get very scared

00:46:36.420 when i uh even nowadays i've had a a bit of a change on my thoughts on pornography and

00:46:43.280 masturbation i want to talk about some of that stuff um because i do feel that presence i really

00:46:48.100 do and and and constantly ask for forgiveness uh both in the morning and at night when i pray

00:46:53.880 but the way that you uh describe some of the the sins that we were just talking about now

00:46:59.860 um we were talking about murder and some of those things it sounds like

00:47:04.100 the most judged things by gods are human on human sin um is that too broad of a statement or would

00:47:13.120 be acceptable to assume that god is mostly not mostly but but severe in in punishment of what we

00:47:21.780 do and how we treat each other specifically well if you don't have justice you can't have love

00:47:26.120 and if you don't forgive somebody from your heart you can't have a true type of justice

00:47:33.760 i don't believe so at least because if you're going to reconcile for example with somebody

00:47:38.380 who you really hate, back to this topic. You have to forgive them in your heart and then you can

00:47:43.460 seek justice and then reconcile. You can't just seek justice for what they did to you and then

00:47:48.640 say, ah, whatever, we're reconciled. No, you have to have that level of forgiveness first. And if

00:47:54.560 that doesn't occur, then there's no ultimate reconciliation. And I think this is kind of

00:47:58.400 off your good point, but I just want to touch on, I think in our culture today, it's becoming more

00:48:03.560 and more individualistic, where it's all about me. It's not about community. And so when it's

00:48:08.560 all about me and my own personal ambitions and dreams and where I can get, you know, we see the

00:48:13.440 breakdown if that's true in a marriage, really high percentage chance that that is going to end

00:48:17.580 in divorce because it's about my dreams. And if you get in the way of my happiness, we're done,

00:48:21.260 but you see it in society. And so when that occurs, forgiveness is like impossible because to your

00:48:26.080 point, it's, you're going to, you're going to be constantly warring against different people who

00:48:31.620 bump up against you and if you if we can't get to the point of saying no it's about community it's

00:48:38.040 not it's about self-denial like christ talked about not about self-assertion then we're gonna

00:48:43.640 never forgive like if it's about me my dreams and i you can't forgive so that's why we see forgiveness

00:48:48.900 which i love that you put such a heavy emphasis on forgiveness it's becoming completely obsolete

00:48:54.120 in our culture today because it's individualism completely completely but by the way it's like

00:48:59.240 man i feel like at least cancel culture on x dude yo everyone is the judge during executioner

00:49:05.400 yeah yeah who who why and how did this happen where everyone thinks that they have the ability

00:49:10.880 to presume someone good or bad and then be vocal about it online right it's just it's just a it's

00:49:16.960 a weird culture man yeah forgiveness is becoming harder and harder admittedly even like for me

00:49:21.300 you know right it's the world is headed in an interesting direction which is why i actually

00:49:30.600 love religion for this because in a world where like it's just so hard to understand yourself and

00:49:38.040 be guided by i don't know your friends your parents things you see online your environment

00:49:44.440 in general. This code, this Bible or any scripture from any religion usually is a good testament as

00:49:53.680 to how someone could live and lead a good, healthy, positive, beneficial life. Do you see religion as

00:49:59.520 something totally different? Like, is this historically true? Did Jesus Christ actually 0.85

00:50:04.040 die on a cross? Was he actually risen? You two, you know, you two, you look at Bono, for example,

00:50:08.720 he says 35% of the world is Christian. Well, if Jesus Christ claimed to be God, I work with

00:50:13.980 schizophrenics oftentimes they claim to be jesus christ and god and so then he was a schizophrenic

00:50:19.880 well you you know bono would say you truly believe that a schizophrenic could turn 35 percent of the

00:50:25.460 world christian change that that percentage i mean maybe but the likeliness is very small and so you

00:50:31.960 have to come through christ and believe that he is actually the son of god then you get to okay

00:50:36.740 how am i going to grow in the fruits of the spirit of love joy peace patience kindness goodness

00:50:41.240 faithfulness gentleness self-control but it has to come through first believing like true faith

00:50:46.040 he's the son of god or he's not and so just drop this whole thing i appreciate your practicality

00:50:50.660 and by the way the resemblance that you two have is uncanny it's it's incredible and and

00:50:55.960 in the 30s you become your dad yeah yo please don't tell me that sorry greg so long my hair

00:51:03.500 um and actually the first the first thing you said to me the first uh response to his question

00:51:08.120 was um you know you said i don't know and i think a lot of hard questions i think there's a lot of

00:51:14.280 maturity and nobility in a human being able to say you know what i don't know but that's a strange

00:51:19.340 thing about this scenario and i've heard you speak about this in the past no one is ever going to be

00:51:24.600 able to bring to you this bulletproof bulletproof proof that that god exists or that jesus exists

00:51:31.800 right which to answer your question and when i say when convince me to come christian uh is it

00:51:36.640 synonymous with like saying convince me to become a republican i think i guess what i am looking for

00:51:41.640 what i have always struggled with is like the proof per se like i haven't really had like a

00:51:50.560 come to jesus moment that i know some people people have had i haven't had and have abided

00:51:58.400 by the guidance of the bible to lead me to like a happy successful place in my life i just try to be

00:52:06.020 a good person i try to work hard and i try to love the people around me as much as i can and

00:52:10.740 by the way i love a lot but i i guess like i started by saying i'm just like unwilling to

00:52:15.940 subscribe to a religion because then i guess this leads into this conversation why christianity

00:52:21.320 there's so many denominations out there and to be able to like put your foot down on one especially

00:52:27.260 when they all have such positive teachings for the most part it's just so hard for me i i just

00:52:33.660 don't know if i'm willing to make that assertion just yet so why christianity is the question all

00:52:39.760 right first of all you're right i can't prove god but logan i think you've got god bearing down hard

00:52:46.900 on you through your mom i think it's real clear that your mom loves you is that true mom she's

00:52:54.220 holding the cross he at least get a thumbs up or something she just holds up the cross

00:52:59.340 She's like, I can't discuss the love of Logan.

00:53:02.960 But here's a cross.

00:53:03.980 I do love Jesus.

00:53:05.120 I don't think that your mom's love for you is simply a chemical reaction.

00:53:08.980 I think your mom has made a decision over your entire life to care for you, to provide for you, to protect you, to sacrifice for you.

00:53:18.760 That is far beyond an animal instinct.

00:53:21.400 That is a free decision your precious mother has made to really love you, to really care for you.

00:53:27.480 Love, the experience of love, points us to reality, including some type of God.

00:53:33.160 Okay, then the next question is, yeah, but who is this God?

00:53:35.360 And that's where Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Confucius, Buddha,

00:53:38.760 all the avatars of Hinduism come in, all claiming to be revealing God accurately. 0.87

00:53:44.400 But the historical evidence is Jesus lived a sinless life.

00:53:48.720 He never sinned once.

00:53:50.440 In John chapter 8, he could look into the faces of his enemies and say,

00:53:52.880 which one of you can prove me guilty of sin?

00:53:54.540 And his enemies were silent.

00:53:56.620 Secondly, he taught amazing ethical teachings that I think all of us respect highly.

00:54:01.960 The Sermon on the Mount is obviously ethical genius, right?

00:54:05.540 Profound ethical genius.

00:54:07.100 The Sermon on the Mount, Matthew chapters 5, 6, and 7.

00:54:10.320 So his lifestyle, his ethical teachings demand respect.

00:54:15.280 Thirdly, you watch him die.

00:54:17.100 At the moment of his most excruciating pain and agony, nailed to a wooden cross beam,

00:54:21.480 instead of cursing his enemies the way I would have,

00:54:23.480 he prays father forgive them for they know not what they do well my respect for him skyrockets

00:54:29.660 but fourthly and most importantly three days after he dies he physically bodily rises from

00:54:35.900 the dead and over a period of 40 days he appears to over 500 people who see him different times

00:54:42.380 different places risen from the dead paul records in first corinthians 15 i have a question how do

00:54:49.100 you know that you know that in the same way that you know that george washington was the first

00:54:55.360 president united states that you know that adolf hitler really committed the atrocities he did

00:54:59.220 it's called historical knowledge but those recent events you or those events you just cited happened

00:55:05.380 much more recently yes and are much more well documented yes than potentially 2 000 years of

00:55:10.360 lost history bingo correct but the great news is in the gospels of matthew mark luke and john we have

00:55:16.340 a very very reliable historical record based on over 5 800 greek manuscripts 10 000 manuscripts

00:55:24.860 in the latin vulgate and about 9 800 in ethiopic coptic armenian syriac gothic and slavic basically

00:55:33.740 like they were they were almost approved and and and given credibility to in the short term

00:55:40.740 thereafter and and and and that that became made it even that added a more extensive proof to the

00:55:48.360 to the story back essentially they were like corroborated yeah that's kind of what i want to

00:55:53.160 ask a quick question about that and you brought up uh or you brought up george washington and and

00:55:57.680 the atrocities of of world war ii um we live in a in a place or a time and place right now

00:56:07.320 specifically in this moment where the things that happened yesterday aren't even believed to

00:56:14.380 necessarily be true they're questioned we live in a very strange place where there's been this

00:56:20.300 infection of question everything to no end and and maybe it's an infection and maybe you'll say

00:56:26.140 otherwise like i've seen you even do this exercise before like uh on on george jenko's show are we

00:56:33.260 even sitting here right now you know like and you didn't ask it in in in saying like we're not but

00:56:38.320 like right how how far can this go right you bet and so do you feel like that modern day questioning

00:56:47.540 that to be honest with you is is somewhat of a it seems like an ego boost almost for the person

00:56:53.760 questioning whatever they're questioning like look i can question this i must be so woke and

00:56:59.120 and amazing right and such a free thinker do you think that's increasing the scrutiny on uh

00:57:06.040 on religious beliefs yeah we just had this big debate at mississippi state in a lecture hall

00:57:13.760 that went kind of crazy in there and this guy stands up and tries to poke fun at christianity

00:57:20.260 saying you guys live in a culture of certainty we live in a culture of free thinking and

00:57:25.540 uncertainty. And you guys are bastardizing all different forms of knowledge by claiming this

00:57:32.000 type of certainty. What he doesn't get is Christianity is all about doubt. Like if any 0.85

00:57:37.600 Christian comes up to you and says, you got to have certainty or you're not, you know, you're 0.96

00:57:41.080 not going to heaven. You're going to burn in the lake of fire. That's just a total joke. Like the 0.97

00:57:44.740 man after God's own heart, David was questioning God all the time. Job, when he was going through

00:57:49.220 suffering, questioning God all the time. Oh, doubting Thomas. Jesus said, don't doubt,

00:57:52.760 obviously because doubting thomas was scolded no doubting thomas had all the disciples who claimed

00:57:58.560 eyewitness testimony to the resurrection coming to him telling him exactly what happened finally

00:58:03.140 jesus actually gives him the physical proof says touch the actual nail prints in my hands thrust

00:58:08.880 your hand into the spear wound in my side then stop doubting and believe so eventually he calls

00:58:14.960 him out of his doubt but to your good point i'm a doubt i've doubted more than my brothers all

00:58:20.060 lifelong and my three-year-old daughter the other day was like i don't believe in god like i can't

00:58:23.880 see touch tastes i'm like you're three what is going on here it's so in the genes i just hate

00:58:28.900 you just took a bite of play-doh exactly i don't even answer this and so i love that about the 0.54

00:58:36.320 christian faith unlike other faiths which is yeah so but it sounds like this person that you were

00:58:40.500 going back and forth with is talking about your certainty and the belief of jesus that he existed

00:58:44.460 that's what it sounds like and and and i guess that's kind of what was my question as well like

00:58:52.640 like how do you know is because the preservation of history is excuse me

00:58:57.640 freaking difficult uh-huh that's extremely difficult by the way history is often written

00:59:04.820 by the victors right and i don't know i don't know who the victor is in this case but like

00:59:09.380 we have lost thousands of years of history um to i don't know destruction fire torment collapse war

00:59:17.620 rain rage rain um and so it the further back we go it is harder for me to put my seal of belief

00:59:27.680 on something if i don't have a certain amount of evidence like i'm one of those and i'm not like

00:59:31.740 i'm just doubting i'm not saying yes or no i'm just asking questions um and and and eyewitness

00:59:39.580 testimony seems to be like the the strongest actual receipt of these events that took place

00:59:45.140 in in years zero by the way right this i want to talk about that pin that question but um

00:59:50.560 yeah is it are you are you you have a tremendous amount of faith in eyewitness testimony and the

00:59:57.620 preservation of the records that that contributed towards this story of jesus christ as well as

01:00:03.640 muhammad if you tell me muhammad never existed i'm gonna look you in the face and say i'm sorry

01:00:07.440 the historical evidence is muhammad was born about 570 a.d and died about 632 a.d what muhammad

01:00:13.980 claimed to be a messenger of god prophet of god prophet of god do you not believe in that god

01:00:19.120 allah i'd assume when you read the quran there are good reasons to question the total reliability

01:00:25.700 of Muhammad, so therefore I don't trust him too much. I have great respect for Muhammad in the 1.00

01:00:31.840 way he taught give alms to the poor. I think that's tremendous. Muhammad had more respect for

01:00:37.140 Jesus than the typical American does. Muhammad believed that Jesus was born of a virgin, 0.57

01:00:41.380 that he ascended to heaven, he lived a sinless life, he's coming back a second time. Wow. 0.97

01:00:45.580 But Muhammad did not subscribe to the deity of Christ, that Christ is actually God in human form.

01:00:50.980 So I asked someone who is pretty religious, who's close to me.

01:00:55.480 I asked this person, I said, so what about people who don't believe in Jesus

01:01:00.280 but are still extremely religious and they subscribe to Allah or the Buddhist

01:01:05.720 or whatever the deity is that they worship and believe in?

01:01:10.240 And even just based on what you guys have told me today,

01:01:12.100 if that person doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, I said to this person,

01:01:16.260 are they going to hell?

01:01:18.140 Are they doomed for the rest of eternity?

01:01:22.440 The only reason people go to hell is because they choose to live their life separate from God.

01:01:26.820 Jesus?

01:01:27.580 Sorry.

01:01:28.180 Yeah.

01:01:28.760 In this context.

01:01:29.620 From Jesus from God.

01:01:30.040 Yeah.

01:01:30.520 Correct.

01:01:31.360 So if I choose to reject Christ and live my life separate from him, I'm choosing to live my life separate from God.

01:01:36.860 And I will, based on my decision, will spend eternity separate from him.

01:01:40.420 So you believe that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ is going to hell?

01:01:44.920 anybody who hears about Christ and has the opportunity to investigate Christ by reading

01:01:50.540 the Gospels and chooses to reject Christ Jesus clearly said for God so loved the world he gave

01:01:56.500 his one and only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life for God

01:02:01.320 did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him whoever

01:02:05.900 believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he's

01:02:10.720 not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. That's what Jesus said. It just isolates

01:02:15.480 such a large portion of the population. Good point. Jesus doesn't give his followers an option

01:02:23.040 when it comes to loving people. If I'm a follower of Christ, I don't have an option to hate. I have

01:02:29.800 to love. I have to accept. I have to be tolerant. In fact, if I'm going to follow a man who, as he's

01:02:35.480 bleeding and dying on a cross, prays for his enemies, Father, forgive them, for they know not

01:02:39.180 what they do. That's the essence of tolerance. So intolerance, bigotry, hatred is not an option

01:02:45.980 for a genuine fall of Christ. But isn't intolerance sort of rooted in Christianity a bit?

01:02:53.980 Okay, great question. This is a matter of truth. If I say to you, every religion leads to God, 1.00

01:03:00.740 is that a truth claim? No. I would argue yes. What I'm saying is every religion leads to God,

01:03:07.180 which means I contradict the Muslims, I contradict the Christians, I contradict the Jews. 1.00

01:03:11.500 This is a truth claim. I, as a white Western male, am saying every religion leads to God. 0.98

01:03:16.800 That's a truth claim. If I say to you half the religions lead to God, is that a truth claim? 0.83

01:03:21.960 Sure it is. I'm saying half are right, half are wrong. That's a truth claim. When Jesus says, 1.00

01:03:27.960 I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me.

01:03:31.280 is that a truth claim yeah it sure is you see logan we all make truth claims

01:03:37.600 everybody does if you're against racism you're making a truth claim if you're against sexism

01:03:45.140 you're making a truth claim if you're for equal housing opportunity you're making a truth claim

01:03:50.060 you better not be prejudiced against someone because of their ethnic heritage when you rent

01:03:53.220 out your apartment so everybody makes truth claims so the question is what is the evidence

01:03:59.740 supporting the truth claim that you buy into oh i'm agnostic cliff i don't believe anything i'm

01:04:04.380 sorry that's impossible because you have to make ethical decisions every day and the ethical

01:04:09.200 decisions you make every day tattles what you really believe about reality i'm sorry you got

01:04:13.120 to go to funerals got to your loved ones are going to pass you don't believe it could be intuitive

01:04:18.840 this feels wrong this feels right or socially programmed as we as we spoke about earlier

01:04:23.900 okay good yes society obviously impacts but don't you and i have the utmost respect for

01:04:29.600 dr martin luther king for abraham lincoln for gandhi who choose to follow their conscience

01:04:34.020 instead of following the status quo don't we really respect people who say you know something

01:04:38.760 there's a lot of social pressure on me to go this way but i'm not going to go this way because i have

01:04:43.140 a rational mind i've got a conscience and i'm going to think through this issue and i'm going

01:04:46.760 to do what i believe is best well we all we we also appreciate those people now like given

01:04:51.780 you know us the four of us you know white american men in 1950 right or 1956 like who knows what our

01:05:01.700 is that somebody's gonna kill me on this date no way for what for mlk are we close are we close

01:05:07.120 at least 56 does that work yeah who knows what our our thoughts about his speakings would have

01:05:13.520 been at that given time which is which i'm bringing back and by the way obviously coming

01:05:17.540 from christian this is just a uh an exercise here of you know like what what say you to these people

01:05:24.240 who believe that some of that ethic ethical behavior moral behavior uh is just a socially

01:05:29.320 programmed belief set from their existence on this planet i think we've we've spoken about this a

01:05:34.200 little bit today you bet well it depends how you view the human being if a human being is simply

01:05:38.940 the sum total of the influences of their environment we're not free we've been programmed

01:05:43.300 by our environment now i agree environment has a powerful influence i think that's obvious

01:05:48.000 i'm dressed the way i am because i grew up in the united states so i've been influenced by my

01:05:52.680 culture by my society connecticut to be honest with you trust you i would still be rocking both

01:06:00.100 of these fates if i hadn't moved to la i when i met logan i was wearing that exact same outfit

01:06:05.380 but i don't think i have to follow my environment right and i think there are more than enough

01:06:11.000 examples from all four of our lives that at times we've followed our environment and at times we've

01:06:16.020 contradicted our environment but i think you hit something different so you hit social you hit

01:06:20.720 instinctual and i go by evolutionary theory i believe in evolution evolution micro wait what

01:06:26.660 a lot of christians don't yeah wait whoa well you're so morally you should be at the top of

01:06:30.900 the food chain you're a fighter right you've got power you know the powerful they eat the weak

01:06:35.980 strong eat the weak his record and so why is it so i don't know so why isn't you know might makes

01:06:42.940 right from an evolutionary perspective why do we as a society don't just say you know why would

01:06:48.480 you live for something like human rights why would you disadvantage yourself for the poor 1.00

01:06:52.000 no from an evolutionary standpoint you should slaughter them or at least just let them die off 0.99

01:06:58.240 why would you know if you have your your baby not not back to your baby no go ahead perspective 1.00

01:07:02.660 Go ahead, slaughtered my unborn baby, guys. 0.99

01:07:05.180 I can't get her out of it. 0.99

01:07:06.220 So bad news, Logan, unfortunately.

01:07:08.900 God, take a hand, dude.

01:07:10.600 The percentage was astronomical back in the Roman Empire of those who,

01:07:14.580 if you didn't like your baby, you just threw it on a trash heap. 0.59

01:07:18.000 And the fantasize was all, well, that fits with evolution.

01:07:21.180 It totally does.

01:07:21.780 It does, actually.

01:07:22.400 Yeah.

01:07:23.060 And so why morally, instinctually, like you're saying,

01:07:26.460 if we just were raised red in tooth and claw, just live that way. 0.88

01:07:30.800 Like, Hitler lived that way. 0.82

01:07:31.940 makes sense to me so if there is no god i hate to say this i don't mean to get dark real quick 0.72

01:07:36.040 but if there is no god and there is no christ i would try and be as consistent as possible

01:07:41.260 with that worldview fair that makes sense i want to pin the evolution that surprises me that you

01:07:47.040 believe in evolution um pin that uh what were we just oh oh i wanted to touch on the intolerance

01:07:54.740 part of just not even not even just christianity just organize religion in general there's a qualm

01:08:00.440 i have this this is where i think if if again this is where you got heated i i have i harbor

01:08:07.340 resentment for certain parts of organized religion that make people either exclude others or lead to

01:08:13.780 hatred and and um dispute rage feud i i and and in this particular podcast actually i had a moment

01:08:21.720 where i was like mocking religion and jesus in general and by the way the next three months of

01:08:27.000 my life or hell like like literally i felt the wrath of god like instantly instantly um and i

01:08:33.460 just sit there and watch and i'll never do it i can't help you and i'll never do it again and

01:08:36.860 then by the end of it i had like my like it wasn't like a come to jesus moment but he definitely

01:08:41.140 gave me guidance in a time where i needed guidance anyways that was a verbal outpour of like a level

01:08:50.200 of resentment that i felt for certain parts of particularly in that scenario christianity that

01:08:55.880 i just didn't agree agree with um man like i i i'm just i'll be honest here i don't love the sort

01:09:03.420 of like exclusive club feeling oh you can get into heaven if you believe in jesus but everyone else

01:09:09.500 is doomed i don't i don't i don't love that right because there are people who who have the same

01:09:14.500 amount of faith in their religion as you guys do in yours who are putting their time effort energy

01:09:20.160 investing their whole lives into believing in a deity and like according to you guys you know

01:09:23.600 they won't end up in a place uh that is paradise even though they're leading a great life and have

01:09:29.260 a great moral compass um even even just like even like you know the whole like gay marriage thing

01:09:35.580 like i like correct me if i'm wrong right but according to christianity like gay marriage

01:09:41.160 isn't allowed to be a thing and i i know there's a lot of circumstances of um like a a gay child

01:09:48.700 being uh resented and even alienated from their family because they have super religious parents

01:09:53.860 and i and i hear those stories and like i hurt i hurt for those people because a decision is being

01:09:58.540 made based on um a set of beliefs that that people are so bound to but then they throw the love aside

01:10:06.640 for someone in their family and and and that that kind of bothers me sure but remember logan

01:10:11.500 the legitimacy of faith is not determined by passion if you're passionate about thin ice

01:10:20.880 on a lake i really believe this thin ice is going to hold me up that doesn't matter yeah you walk

01:10:25.700 out on that thin ice you're going through sir yeah so the legitimacy of faith is determined by

01:10:31.260 the trustworthiness of the object of your faith if it's thick ice and you believe just a little

01:10:37.780 and you step out on that ice it's going to hold you up you see remember i'm not i'm not going to 0.91

01:10:44.220 heaven because i'm passionate no i'm a dirty rotten sinner christ died on a cross for me

01:10:50.860 i have put my faith in him i doubt man i sin every day i am no perfect human specimen i'm a 0.91

01:10:59.020 dirty rotten sinner that's who i am wait cliff you keep saying that but like you're i don't know

01:11:06.840 you that well right so in my head you're like painting a picture of someone that i like i just 0.98

01:11:10.500 don't believe you are is that you being humble are you are you like a really are you actually

01:11:14.580 like a dirty rock probably all right it comes down to how you define sin no i have never not 0.93

01:11:22.600 even dated but i have lusted no i have never murdered anybody but i have hated no i have 0.92

01:11:30.520 never brought a whip down on the back of a black slave not once but i as a white american have had

01:11:35.120 subtle racist attitudes. No, I don't live an incredibly opulent life, but I have been greedy.

01:11:41.300 So I'm not this wonderful person that I wish everybody would believe that I am. I am a sinner.

01:11:46.760 That is why I need Christ. Now, remember, it's not about my passion. It's not about my sincerity

01:11:52.180 that's the key issue when it comes to faith. It's about the reliability of the object of my faith.

01:11:58.700 And you know that. If you trust a criminal, he's going to rip you off. If you trust a reliable

01:12:04.840 person that's good now here's where it really gets tricky let's be a skeptic right let's doubt

01:12:12.480 okay let's start writing in here in this room i doubt you and i doubt you

01:12:16.520 i doubt me too all right i think i doubt him now there's nothing wrong with doubt i doubt myself

01:12:20.900 enough for all exactly okay but i can push that too far i can get to the point where i say in

01:12:27.260 spite of the evidence that you two guys are reliable i'm not going to trust you i'm going

01:12:31.500 to be a hyper skeptic skepticism is good but when it turns into hyper skepticism watch out why is it

01:12:37.500 so dangerous yeah why because i'll never have the privilege of being your friend if i'm always

01:12:42.220 skeptical about you if i'm always doubting you i will miss my friendship with both you and you

01:12:47.380 and him that's but that's an extreme you know you like hyper hyper skepticism i don't think i don't

01:12:52.640 know if it's as extreme as you think this is the person i was describing before this i'm so smart

01:12:58.300 because i question everything the issue with these people is you provide absolute proof that

01:13:04.500 their questioning is leading them down the wrong path and they're still unwilling to accept that

01:13:09.820 as a as a proof point hyperscepticism sure but like call me more prevalent just to question and

01:13:16.100 doubt and and not accept everything you see at face value as truth i don't think i don't think

01:13:21.320 jesus said you better do that oh he did he said beware of false prophets they come to you in

01:13:25.000 sheep's clothing inwardly they are ferocious wolves and they will eat your lunch okay let me

01:13:29.320 tell you something about what you just said and this is where a portion of that resentment started

01:13:33.540 to grow i had a person very close to me tell me that that mistake that i referenced earlier

01:13:41.520 happened because i had a statue of buddha in my backyard took me aside and said i know why all

01:13:51.340 this bad stuff has been happening to you and i know why japan happened i said please tell me like

01:13:56.880 what do you know and he looked at this statue giant buddha statue and he said what you just said

01:14:06.120 he said something about it was something about punishing those who worship false prophets

01:14:11.700 false idols something like that and in that moment i thought that was so just bizarre and also

01:14:21.660 kind of like distasteful to everyone who puts their life in the belief of buddha buddhism

01:14:28.900 it was like a first like tip off to me like okay i don't know if i'm i'm willing to subscribe to

01:14:36.400 like a religion that is alienating an entire belief system or even just like just because

01:14:40.720 i have a statue in in my backyard and intuitively i felt like it was just so ridiculous like how

01:14:48.700 how how could i then subscribe to this one religion right because that in itself is intolerance

01:14:55.220 no there's no way that anybody knows that because you have a statue boot in your backyard this

01:15:00.460 horrible thing happened to you that's total presumptuous it's false it was wrong got rid

01:15:04.760 of it it's terrible kept happening like it just it's did we get rid of it i think totally yeah

01:15:09.900 someone we tried to give it to russell brand he said no he said no and then i think someone took 0.99

01:15:14.680 it i mean you don't own it anymore and you still gargan sucks it's ridiculous that you said that 0.95

01:15:21.640 i'm sorry he said that no i i definitely thought i thought i was like uh yeah what 0.94

01:15:28.300 it was on the ground yeah you had it all messed up i don't know i'm not like buddhist i just i

01:15:33.360 that was cool and by the way that was the i was like i saw it at the store i was like this is

01:15:37.060 and then i was like is this is why i'm being punished just because i made a purchase about

01:15:44.080 a garden statue no um but but but it is but but even i know you're saying it's presumptuous but

01:15:51.480 it's it's what i mean you just cited the same thing he said no no no when jesus says beware

01:15:56.600 of false prophets he's talking about don't trust them because they'll rip you off like the guys

01:16:01.640 who stand in front of santa monica beer with megaphones no those guys well some of them some

01:16:07.900 of them are preaching the word but but it would be a different story if you if you had been a

01:16:14.280 christian you had purchased that statue and then started practicing a belief set to buddha right

01:16:20.040 instead of i think i think backing up what he's looking for is some sort of understanding of this

01:16:27.160 this code of intolerance that exists within within uh standardized religion sets right so like

01:16:34.680 why why is there a christian belief towards uh man and woman being the only you know union that

01:16:41.500 is acceptable why why is a belief set on abortion and x y and z scenario bingo what once again not

01:16:48.220 me asking but this is a big thing for through mike abortion is another one yeah put it together

01:16:55.820 Also, the difficult question is, what is the purpose for which God made us?

01:17:00.700 And if there is no God, life is a crapshoot.

01:17:03.220 It's meaningless.

01:17:04.720 But if God created us for a purpose, then we better figure out what that purpose is.

01:17:10.320 Now, according to Jesus Christ, life is not a cosmic crapshoot.

01:17:13.600 According to Christ, life has been given us by God for a purpose,

01:17:16.280 to love God with our heart, soul, mind, and strength,

01:17:18.380 and to love our neighbor as ourself, is the way he summarized it.

01:17:21.300 Okay?

01:17:22.060 Then he gets more specific.

01:17:23.660 When it comes to sexuality, we read in Genesis 2.24 that when God created us,

01:17:27.780 he created us male and female and said, for this reason,

01:17:29.980 a man shall leave his father and mother, be united to his wife,

01:17:32.300 and the two shall become one flesh.

01:17:34.120 So there's a very positive statement of why God created our sexuality,

01:17:38.340 male and female. 0.87

01:17:39.460 God could have had procreation happen at the end of a Q-tip. 0.94

01:17:42.060 When a man and a woman mixed their earwax, 0.99

01:17:43.820 little babies could have been born that way. 0.98

01:17:45.240 That would be crazy.

01:17:46.840 He didn't choose to do it that way.

01:17:48.320 He chose to create us male and female, and that is a gift from him.

01:17:52.300 It's a beautiful gift.

01:17:53.260 I never thought of this before, but does an omission from the scripture indicate a sin

01:18:03.300 or a non-accepted way of producing a certain outcome, i.e. God presented to us Adam and Eve

01:18:12.780 and said, man shall marry woman. But I'm sure you're going to give me passages, but was there

01:18:18.140 anything in Genesis that said, but man shall not marry man or woman should not marry woman?

01:18:23.260 like is it is genesis communicates that to have sex outside of a lifelong commitment between one

01:18:30.980 man and one woman okay is not cool be fruitful sorry i'm gonna i'm gonna mess up on the scripture

01:18:36.120 a little bit what's the exact scripture he did say it's not cool well no you're exactly right

01:18:42.820 that's not in the hebrew what did he say okay hebrew scholar look at that god said god this is

01:18:48.700 this is not cool being gay ain't cool i don't think that was that wasn't in there man l's in

01:18:54.740 the chat what is it though what is the action what is well genesis 2 24 is a clear statement 0.78

01:19:01.740 about he creates as male and female to become husband and wife then in genesis chapter 19

01:19:07.200 different sexual immorality is communicated there different forms of sexual immorality

01:19:12.240 but why would god then create a male who's attracted to a male if like you know god created 0.93

01:19:21.200 all of us why would he create someone that goes directly against like like guys like being gay

01:19:26.620 isn't a choice no one i don't think i think few people are like oh i'm attracted to my the same

01:19:31.440 sex i believe um isn't that changing though because the lgbtq movement not too long ago said

01:19:40.020 it's not a choice but the queer movement now is saying it is a look look go go go and they're 0.70

01:19:44.040 like hey hey hey hey this is way above my pay grade i don't know i believe people are made that

01:19:49.580 way i happen to be heterosexual i'm attracted to women attracted to one woman now but uh but um

01:19:55.580 uh i i believe you're just you're attracted to who you're attracted to granted like yeah things

01:20:00.100 are super fluid now and like people are making decisions based on like their environment what

01:20:03.760 they see whatever but like i would argue that like you know if certain i think certain people

01:20:09.400 are just attracted to who they are attracted to so why would god create someone in his image

01:20:14.100 who goes directly against his codex that he created i didn't expect you to look at me right

01:20:21.100 there all right no no well i'll just say i mean briefly i think it's again i think you have to

01:20:27.000 the the people that i know who are ssa same-sex attraction the ones who have decided to live a

01:20:36.400 life of celibacy devoted fully to christ they have claimed this level of their own personal

01:20:44.200 flourishing that is just beyond imagination like i've talked to some of these people i've read their

01:20:49.920 a lot of their testimonies and so i don't think ultimately that it you know excuses the pain

01:20:54.960 because that because we know different scholars who are incredible new testament scholars

01:20:58.940 who based off the experience of a close loved one

01:21:03.200 becoming gay or being born gay,

01:21:05.780 they have changed their very interpretation of scripture.

01:21:09.920 And so it's so hard once you like,

01:21:11.420 just what you said,

01:21:12.040 I totally agree in terms of how the experience

01:21:15.460 plays into your own emotions.

01:21:18.180 Because you feel just tragedy for this person

01:21:20.820 who's actually,

01:21:21.540 if you're going to tell them

01:21:22.300 the Mike Pence conversion therapy

01:21:23.760 is what you have to go through 1.00

01:21:24.860 to get out of this homosexuality, 1.00

01:21:26.360 that's tough. 1.00

01:21:26.980 That's where I start to harbor resentment. 0.89

01:21:29.440 But remember, the Bible talks well over 300 times about heterosexual sin

01:21:35.000 and only six times about homosexual sin. 0.99

01:21:38.540 And so Christians want to put homosexuality on this crazy pedestal, 0.98

01:21:41.980 and I think it's just because they find a level of disgust in it, 0.98

01:21:44.800 which is really sad.

01:21:45.960 I mean, all sin is, there's a form of level of disgust, they would say.

01:21:49.560 Shame.

01:21:50.140 Shame, exactly.

01:21:51.040 But for us as heterosexuals, we've got to look at it as

01:21:53.840 we have way more sin to wrestle with in many ways i don't want to make this like a what aboutism

01:21:59.680 thing you know like i'm asking specifically he's gonna go another direction ask yeah i know the

01:22:05.360 direction he's going all right see if you when you listen to yourself talk with the way you did

01:22:11.560 i think there's a presupposition you've got which is god created me the way i was born

01:22:19.860 and the bible contradicts that meaning by that i was not born with a desire to forgive

01:22:29.020 you hurt me bad enough i'm coming after you that's naturally what i do so then i've got

01:22:36.420 to ask myself the question my desire to come after you and seek revenge is that what god

01:22:42.340 created me to do or did god create me to forgive i was not born with a heterosexual drive to have 0.98

01:22:49.260 sex with just one woman. I was born with a heterosexual drive to have sex with as many 0.98

01:22:54.180 good-looking women as I could get into bed with me. This whole idea that God created me to be this 0.99

01:23:00.140 way. No, I am born with something that Jesus in the Bible calls a readiness to sin factor.

01:23:07.020 When I was a little kid playing in a sandbox with a buddy, I got ticked with a buddy. So ticked,

01:23:12.280 I picked up a metal truck and slammed him over the head with it. Cops are still looking for you, 0.98

01:23:16.040 that's right all right it came very naturally i never saw that behavior modeled for my environment

01:23:21.860 it was sort of an instinct it just sort of happened so this whole idea that every drive

01:23:28.100 that i have that i'm born with is good no i've got a lot of drives that are not good in fact

01:23:34.680 i'm a mixed up kid that's why i need god's help because i am a mixed up kid so through that

01:23:40.420 analogy then is it safe to say that you believe that he's something you're saying homosexuality

01:23:48.740 is a choice you're not a not a not a choice someone's ability to forgive which i think is

01:23:54.140 a faulty no no no no no i think he was comparing sex with many different women i don't have to

01:23:58.660 and the guy at the university of arizona who said i date and i said really why do you date

01:24:03.140 and he said because i have a very high testosterone level okay i didn't say yeah that's a crazy thing

01:24:08.680 it is i didn't say to him no you don't have a very high testosterone level i don't know

01:24:13.900 i don't know the chemical makeup of his body but what i do know is he still has a free will

01:24:18.660 he does not have to date right i think it's a faulty analogy cliff i just okay how because

01:24:25.500 you're comparing that to like someone's intuition and who they're attracted to you know i'm attracted

01:24:30.700 to many women are you attracted to men no why not because that's the way i'm hardwired that's my

01:24:37.200 What if someone is hardwired the exact opposite way, by their God, and then not accepted by their God because God's book says we don't accept you because you're this way?

01:24:45.960 First of all, God accepts all of us. He loves all of us. Everybody is loved. Everybody has equal value and dignity.

01:24:53.480 The whole idea that I am more valuable because I'm a heterosexual is a joke. It's false.

01:25:00.720 I'm not valuable before God because I'm heterosexual. 0.82

01:25:04.240 God creates all human beings in his image, but we're all mixed up kids.

01:25:08.200 We all have equal value.

01:25:09.540 I'm not more valuable.

01:25:11.420 Well, I'll tell you, I used to go to a prison every Monday night,

01:25:14.680 and I used to go into protective custody and talk with a guy who kidnapped little boys,

01:25:18.500 murdered him, and buried him.

01:25:20.720 I'd leave the cell and go and play basketball with the inmates, 0.86

01:25:23.420 and they would say, hey, Cliff, how do you even talk to such a piece of dirt? 0.93

01:25:26.760 And I would say, I'm sorry, I disagree. 0.99

01:25:28.000 He's not a piece of dirt.

01:25:28.900 He's a human being created in the image of God.

01:25:30.820 he has just as much value as i do as you do but he's messed up but guess what so have i messed up

01:25:37.180 and who am i to sit back on my self-righteous arrogant i mean pedestal and say i can't talk

01:25:42.520 to you but comparing yourself to him is like comparing apples to a murdering like that's

01:25:48.840 that's you're not even i get i get based on your theology that yes you guys are equal value in the

01:25:56.940 eyes of god and yes if he accepts jesus he's going to heaven in my head from a logical practical

01:26:03.140 perspective you are not that guy not even a little bit how do you know you heard what he said about

01:26:09.040 the metal he did say he's dirty rod but not not even not even a sliver you know and like super 0.90

01:26:17.440 noble of you to say that and in line with what you believe but i think that's ridiculous okay

01:26:24.060 But what you've got to remember is God is holy, morally perfect.

01:26:29.460 And I am so far from that holiness that to say that I'm really very much superior to a murderer,

01:26:39.640 yes, I'm obviously morally, ethically superior in one sense,

01:26:43.400 but I fall so far short of God's standard of moral perfection that it's incredible.

01:26:49.560 Well, that goes back to our conversation earlier about mortal versus venial, you know, sin as well.

01:26:54.840 And is sin, sin changing a little bit, but still on this topic, I want to ask you, do the both of you look at the scripture and the word of God, quote unquote, as something that is set in stone, such as the such as the Constitution, for example.

01:27:16.440 right which which hardline you know uh patriots are unwilling to waver in our right to own as many

01:27:23.780 guns as we want even though they're not muskets anymore and they're millions of rounds and we

01:27:28.420 you know this isn't legal this isn't least legal because the constant free speech it doesn't matter

01:27:32.820 what it is free speech or do you look at religion in the same vein or the word of god in the same

01:27:38.260 vein or do you look at it as something where if the second coming were to happen today he would

01:27:43.720 come down and say well based on you know facebook marketplace and x formerly known as twitter like

01:27:48.780 i've made the following adjustments you know based on what's been going on here for the past

01:27:54.060 several thousand years like do you believe that there's any fluidity in the word of god is my

01:28:00.400 short question that i just asked over the course of the last three and a half minutes yeah

01:28:04.760 king of yap right but i try to draw a little analogy you know what i'm saying make it fun

01:28:11.660 Yeah. So a lot of atheists will say, oh, you Christians just cherry pick. You choose what you want to take literally and then you choose what you want to take metaphorically. And it's a total joke. I look at, to your point, I think the chronological snobbery is just because it's older means it's more faulty than if we got history from yesterday. Like, I'm still with you on it. But it's interesting. Chronological snobbery is typically like, oh, these guys who claimed, you know, dead man rose from the dead. They were just idiots. They believe in that.

01:28:40.680 No, they would have actually had more hoops to jump through than us in our scientific age because they were Jews. 1.00

01:28:45.660 They would have said, no way would a suffering Savior have been raised from the dead. 0.99

01:28:50.420 But then all of a sudden, thousands were becoming Christians. 0.95

01:28:52.780 That's weird. 0.99

01:28:53.600 You've got to explain that. 1.00

01:28:54.920 What's supposedly the hoax that was pulled off there by Christians? 1.00

01:28:58.040 Great point. 1.00

01:28:58.800 So that's one.

01:29:00.780 I think you have evidence for the resurrection throughout the Gospels, and then Paul backs it up as well in his epistles.

01:29:07.320 So that's crystal clear.

01:29:08.640 thousands of documents that actually are connected so close within just a couple years of the events

01:29:16.220 themselves which is just pay dirt for any historian so any historian would say you know

01:29:21.340 the documentation we have in the new testament for example it's three and a half empire state

01:29:26.500 buildings if you stacked it all up it's a classical ancient documents of that time period

01:29:32.440 so like herodotus and everybody else all those classics if you stacked all those up four feet

01:29:37.340 so scholars look at this historians look at this and say like the history of the christian faith

01:29:42.940 is insane jesus christ definitely pulled this off but wait a second hold on no there's a

01:29:48.340 supernatural aspect to this so there's hyper skepticism getting back to that where they put

01:29:52.740 towards the bible that they don't put towards any other historical document because there's

01:29:55.760 supernatural claims in there so that's kind of the first point the second point is no i wouldn't take

01:29:59.700 the old testament the same kind of way it's a good point like a talking snake i don't know if that was

01:30:03.700 definitely Satan. And I don't know if that was a snake or a worm, for example. I think, you know,

01:30:08.340 when clearly John talks about nothing will be added to this book, that no, it's not fluid in

01:30:12.440 the sense of no one's going to add any type of writing to the Bible. No, it's the holy word of

01:30:16.860 God that's set in stone, which I'm very thankful for. And so, and then lastly, you know, you get

01:30:23.020 head coverings for a woman. Well, there are a very small percentage of Christians. I actually

01:30:29.480 have a distant relative who makes his wife wears a hat you know to church on sundays but he's not

01:30:35.020 sexist in any way i know him very well he loves his wife dearly and yet i would disagree with him

01:30:39.080 on that because i don't think paul was saying in this day and age all women need to wear head

01:30:43.940 coverings to church got it you taught we i want to get into the supernatural stuff wait yeah go

01:30:51.300 ahead logan um what did i want to talk about

01:30:56.540 is it superior to what i want to talk no no i thought you had it right no no i didn't but what

01:31:05.320 is it what is it in the vein of in this same you aren't as yeah i think so i think so what

01:31:09.780 we're just talking about tolerance yeah i actually when i when we started the podcast i i i was

01:31:17.780 serious like maybe i'll maybe i'll hear something that that makes me want to like explore more

01:31:22.360 i'm curious have either of you explored other religions and and and actually given

01:31:30.340 credence to what other deities or scriptures are saying absolutely i have a great deal of respect

01:31:39.920 for muhammad who taught give alms to the poor it's one of the five pillars of islam way to get to

01:31:44.500 heaven. I have tremendous, if anybody doesn't respect Siddhartha Kattama Buddha, I think they

01:31:49.260 are nuts. Why? He struggles through the whole problem of suffering. Now his conclusion, I could 0.89

01:31:55.460 not disagree more with, cut off your desires. No, no, no. Don't cut off your desires. Learn to

01:32:01.740 distinguish between good desires and bad desires. Confronted by suffering, I better have the desire

01:32:08.140 to help people, help suffering people, for me to retreat and just cut off all my desires and

01:32:13.600 contemplate and contemplate and contemplate. No. Jesus says, feed the hungry, clothe the naked,

01:32:20.840 visit those who are sick and in prison, make a difference with your life in the lives of hurting

01:32:24.720 people. I have tremendous respect for a lot of Hinduism. Gandhi is definitely a hero of mine.

01:32:31.620 And Dr. Luther King and Gandhi followed this pacifism that was, you know, most commendable.

01:32:37.720 So yes, whenever I'm talking with someone who believes something sincerely, and they've

01:32:43.560 thought it through i want to study and understand what is true how can you not look at them

01:32:49.420 with even like a maybe a subconscious level of patronization because in your head they haven't

01:32:59.420 accepted jesus christ and you're going to the kingdom of heaven and they're not well it's

01:33:03.920 simply an issue of truth so much of this comes back to truth does god really love you or not

01:33:10.220 which means, is God a personal being who you can live in relationship with,

01:33:15.580 or is God impersonal, an it, an idea, a philosophy?

01:33:20.680 Now, Jesus says he's personal.

01:33:23.380 He really loves you, which means he created you to connect with him.

01:33:28.580 Not with an idea, not with a philosophy, not with a church,

01:33:32.300 not with an institution, not with a church that has a rather sordid history,

01:33:36.760 and you're absolutely correct about that,

01:33:38.120 but rather connecting with him now either he's blowing smoke he's in fantasy la la land or else

01:33:45.500 he's speaking the truth that there's a god who really does love you you matter to him and he

01:33:49.960 wants to live in relationship with you i don't think that answers the question i'm asking based

01:33:55.600 on what you believe people who don't accept jesus as their deity aren't getting into the kingdom of

01:34:01.900 heaven so since these people aren't in the club and aren't going to go to the eternal afterlife

01:34:07.940 and paradise that that you guys are because of what you believe you don't have a single ounce

01:34:13.320 of like man i could save you if only you believed what i believed in or like i think he has a lot

01:34:18.300 like or like dang that's that's a shame we understand you're like pretty much a morally

01:34:21.980 sound person because you're a monk but because you don't believe in jesus like sorry pal you're

01:34:25.840 not getting into the afterlife my afterlife well it gets back to am i really a sinner are we all

01:34:31.140 really sinners do we all really need god's grace or not and obviously christ said you do yeah so

01:34:37.040 if i reject christ what i'm rejecting is god's grace his forgiveness his love and that i'm free

01:34:44.040 to do that but there are going to be consequences rather severe that one heavy statement if you fall

01:34:51.000 back on the character of christ though that's how you ultimately answer this question okay

01:34:54.480 like do you accept that christ said actually love and forgive your enemies do you accept that christ

01:35:00.740 while bleeding on dying on that cross said father forgive them these enemies were spitting on me

01:35:06.560 putting vinegar in my cuts stabbing me with a spear putting thorns a crown of thorns on my head

01:35:14.320 heckling me to no extent you know to an endless type of extent you've seen mel gibson's movie on

01:35:20.280 the passion of the christ that's pretty accurate oh my god and yet he's on that cross saying father

01:35:24.780 forgive them for they know not what they do like i trust that character when it comes to judgment day

01:35:29.920 and i think we all want a judgment day if we're honest like when i'm working with women for

01:35:34.460 example we've had five correctional surgeries because their husbands have just beaten them to

01:35:39.260 a pulp and then they take off and the cops the cops can't find them or at the end of the day

01:35:44.280 they're not going to lock them up i mean you want a judgment day i think this is a very justice

01:35:49.100 oriented society and so they actually like the idea of a judgment day but they get caught up

01:35:54.040 obviously and well here's how i want judgment day to go like i want purgatory to be there and

01:35:59.660 hitler maybe even to work his way towards i'm sorry someone's actually envisioning that is

01:36:04.380 that like a day-to-day vision for some people oh totally wow yeah that's not what i'm usually

01:36:09.800 thinking about i'm gonna ask an insane question i hope this isn't blasphemous it probably is no

01:36:15.400 please we like we like less this is insane is there a chance that jesus did exist but he was a 0.70

01:36:24.120 freaking genius a marketer an orator a storyteller maybe even a little crazy so much so

01:36:33.920 that people really believed what he did he even believed what he did when he was a son of god

01:36:38.740 you mentioned earlier some schizophrenics will say i'm jesus i'm not saying jesus was a

01:36:43.200 schizophrenic but is there is there a chance he he really thought he was this thing and was was

01:36:48.820 smart enough to be capable of these things i will liken it to and i'm i don't this is i don't want

01:36:54.860 to sound blasphemous here call jesus neo from the matrix right no no no no just like just like you

01:37:00.200 you see you see prominent figures um today rise up and have a cult following they call it a cult

01:37:05.740 following because and oftentimes you watch these cult leaders yo they're low-key geniuses they're

01:37:10.900 they're master manipulators they can orate well and by the way like half of uh convincing people

01:37:16.300 is just your ability to to articulate your thoughts and so like when's the last time trump walked on

01:37:21.260 water i'm not talking about donald i know what you're trying to do right now it's it's it's just

01:37:27.440 a question you know like like because because i'll follow this up with another question that

01:37:31.160 actually gets into a little bit more like logically tactically about about the the timing in which

01:37:36.240 jesus rose um but but is that isn't even a possibility in your mind that that he was just

01:37:42.780 a master at speaking and convincing no because nobody recanted none of the apostles or disciples

01:37:49.520 or the eyewitnesses nobody and it we would have to be saying based off of the resurrection and

01:37:56.620 then all of a sudden the persecution that all of these disciples and eyewitnesses went through

01:38:02.040 they were dying for what they knew to be a lie very different than no no no i'm not saying they

01:38:10.140 thought it was a lie i'm saying he convinced he convinced everyone he convinced himself he really

01:38:14.760 believed this oh but you still have to deal with the resurrection right whether the resurrection

01:38:18.760 actually occurred based on eyewitnesses correct he's saying it was like magic basically no i'm

01:38:23.100 no i'm not i'm saying like once you're so rooted in a belief system there are people in cults right

01:38:28.060 now who will tell you some absurd that they believe in absolute sincerity right because

01:38:31.980 their cult leader told them it's true but so there were a hundred different would-be messiah

01:38:36.080 movements when jesus was alive okay around 100 this is the kind of what i'm all of them either

01:38:41.240 disbanded or the messiah figure was killed so jesus christ was the only one who pulled off

01:38:47.480 this magic trick and converted over half the known world at that time fair and this is based on

01:38:53.240 eyewitness testimony primarily yeah do you believe in aliens we just got that question uh ufos

01:39:02.500 i'm split on it why i have no idea why well there's no strong evidence or proof there's

01:39:09.380 eyewitness testimony there is an eyewitness testimony sure there's eyewitness testimony

01:39:13.480 for elvis too and everybody else but this gets back to did a resurrection actually occur physical

01:39:19.900 historical resurrection occur or not yeah but then that's that's the clean well how much well

01:39:25.380 how much alien uh evidence or elvis sighting evidence exists where it's a mass of people

01:39:32.240 a full-on saturation of one area where every no i know they exist but it's it's like

01:39:37.160 i i understand that but i'm saying like how often how prevalent is that where there's

01:39:42.020 corroborating evidence from people from from hundreds of people that then gets corroborated

01:39:47.060 by people after them and there's physical uh leftovers there there's yeah i guess technically

01:39:52.840 to that point there's some of that stuff but you do you believe in ufos i'm not sure i don't know

01:39:59.040 i think it's possible yes and i think it's possible that christ was just a great manipulator

01:40:03.480 you do think it's possible oh i'm not even saying by the way i'm just asking anything is possible

01:40:07.740 okay it's possible your mother doesn't love you mom mom speak up she definitely loves my brother

01:40:14.340 more hold your cross what is that exercise again from george's we are we here you know like are we

01:40:22.920 here right now no no well no do the exercise do the do the are we here exercise with me

01:40:28.000 all right it's possible that i'm not sitting here right now explain to me why why because there's

01:40:33.640 no way that i can prove to you beyond the shadow of a doubt that my eyesight perceives reality that

01:40:38.900 my ears pick up sounds i can't prove that solid evidence a lot of evidence but i cannot prove

01:40:46.000 that but now you now you now you're just debating the structure of the human makeup well it's a

01:40:50.520 school of plato i think it was plato right like can you even trust your senses exactly like is

01:40:55.020 any sense is any of this real at the end of the day all of this comes down to no but no personal

01:41:00.280 belief no no but if you put if you put all seven billion people on the planet in this room somehow

01:41:05.020 and said it's cliff right there you can touch them and talk to them they'd all tell you the

01:41:08.480 same thing they would all tell you the same thing one person says opposite and then that one person

01:41:12.500 is so sure but then it's still the statistic would be that's 99.999 repeating forever percent true

01:41:18.900 which by the way if you were to be the one who is like oh it's not you're probably not right

01:41:23.940 at the end of the day the the thing that you're missing that this all boils down to at the end of

01:41:30.800 the day is faith is faith like you can people can provide you this provide you that until you've

01:41:36.620 felt the hand of god touch you in some way or your life has changed through your belief set or your

01:41:43.560 life has changed through your day-to-day prayer like mine has as i escaped the reins of a 10-year

01:41:50.220 addiction to heroin and living on the streets and and fighting every single day for survival and i

01:41:54.360 started praying to god and saying thank you and help me today and thank you and help me today my

01:41:58.540 life got me to this couch so i have the the personal evidence until you feel it and you have

01:42:04.140 that faith truly bestowed upon you no proof is going to be an answer how can i subscribe to a

01:42:10.480 faith when there are such obvious contradictions within the codex itself that make it really really

01:42:16.840 hard for me to say that makes because if you live a life based purely on logic i i to cliff's point

01:42:23.480 earlier how could you believe in friendship love any of these things that have no natural

01:42:29.180 explanation there's no natural logical explanation why you feel they are love okay then why does an

01:42:35.140 animal feel love why wouldn't i don't know you tell me what's the logical explanation for the

01:42:39.460 feeling of love wait so next time you see your wife are you just gonna say hey this is my oxytocin

01:42:44.380 going off right now we really don't have that is what he would know that is what no no i know i

01:42:48.660 love her i love but what is love then if it's you know from an atheist if there's no god yeah

01:42:53.180 then it's just the oxytocin neurochemicals cuddle chemicals at this point in humanity i am unable

01:42:59.140 to give you a scientific explanation question if in 50 years the brain could be mapped out and you

01:43:04.540 can say exactly why you feel what you feel does the belief or the faith in in jesus go down because

01:43:11.860 i think what's happening right now is people are getting turned on to the possible idea of more

01:43:18.980 explanations for stuff and thus aren't turning to faith as frequently i think all right but i think

01:43:26.440 you've raised an issue consistently now logan and i'd like to address which is science and faith in

01:43:32.680 god science and ethics science and morality all right science can prove that if i put strychnine

01:43:43.040 in grandma's tea she will die science could never answer the question in light of the fact that

01:43:51.640 grandma's loaded big stock portfolio why should i not put strychnine in her tea killer in order to

01:43:58.700 get the inheritance science can't answer that that's an ethical question science is concerned

01:44:04.300 with the process the physical process and that's wonderful it's beautiful but it cannot address the

01:44:11.320 question should i put strychnine in grandma's tea to get the inheritance that's an ethical

01:44:15.860 moral question has nothing to do with science see so that's why you've got to realize there is truth

01:44:22.560 scientifically very important but there's also truth ethically and there's also truth regarding

01:44:28.140 god and your good buddy has just talked about his experience which is not a scientific thing

01:44:33.140 but it's his personal experience that took him out of drug addiction right so but it's a different

01:44:39.360 type of knowledge totally makes sense makes sense because i i i can't explain why i feel

01:44:44.480 certain things in the way i feel good and and and if i were to seek explanation like i do with some

01:44:54.160 things that maybe can be described with science yep perhaps faith is a good answer to that

01:44:59.860 sentience consciousness perhaps it's a good answer to that again for now i think we're advancing at

01:45:05.260 a rapid pace i think in 50 to 100 years it's gonna be answers to a lot of these questions

01:45:09.060 that are gonna make that we know that we we have come to a point scientifically where the big bang

01:45:14.000 is believed to be a way to explain the origin or expansion of the universe and people will still

01:45:20.380 for the rest of time ask question of who pushed the ball and what was the impotence for it

01:45:24.300 there will always be a well what happened before that what happened before that well what's the

01:45:29.360 precursor to all of that the the thing that i look at is a two-pronged situation system scenario

01:45:35.800 where i have faith backed by science i think you need both of those aspects to be a christian

01:45:42.900 and and without one of either of them it's it's it makes it harder i also believe that his uh and

01:45:49.520 i'm sure you guys do too his doubt questioning and continued skepticism is healthy i think there

01:45:55.960 will be people that watch this that will that will persecute him for his i'm question i'm just

01:46:00.860 no no no so god strikes me down because i'm intrigued curious and no absolutely but that's

01:46:07.700 insane but there will be there will be like righteous people in the comments are like he's

01:46:11.980 well you should just believe like dude i just like i'm not wired like that like i'm i'm so

01:46:17.820 curious like i'm i'm just asking questions no but going back to the questions that are in look at

01:46:22.820 peter well i mean there's so many characters who are exactly like you in the bible so these

01:46:26.140 self-righteous christians are just self-righteous and they're completely missing so much of

01:46:31.240 scripture i think i think one question you got to ask is this truly just intellectual doubt

01:46:36.340 or is this emotional there's my dad or because the gay issue like that's all emotional or is

01:46:43.480 this volitional because i want to live a certain way and god tells me that he has to run my life

01:46:48.540 i want to run my own life like is it a mix of all three or do you think this is purely just

01:46:52.820 intellectual i think i think no it's not intellectual because what mike said i think 0.87

01:46:55.840 is accurate i think there's a level of science i can explain what the fuck is going on here

01:46:59.120 i also think there's a level of magic they can't explain what's going on

01:47:01.900 sorry sorry i'm i turned it off quickly for this episode not to corrupt um i think i think i think

01:47:12.060 i think life is about balance i think the universe is about balance that's a balance that makes sense

01:47:16.140 to me that's a balance i kind of have to accept because man stuff is um stuff is confusing the

01:47:22.800 world is confusing sure to answer your question i think it's i think it's two-pronged i think

01:47:26.560 i think again i'm just gonna be honest here i feel like i can be honest with you guys i feel

01:47:31.620 like no matter what i say you'll still accept me please you better believe it please um one is

01:47:36.800 intuitively i told you i grew up christian my mom would take me to church um she'd put me in

01:47:41.700 What's it called, PSA?

01:47:44.780 It was, it was like the, the, the PSR, PSR, the afterschool religion, religious program

01:47:53.120 for like young people.

01:47:54.820 Man, I was like seven, eight years old, just had like an icky feeling being in this class

01:48:00.800 and, and, and, and they were preaching the word of God and the Bible.

01:48:04.580 And we were singing these songs.

01:48:05.800 Like I can still say the, our father prayer, I got baptized and everything, but like, I

01:48:09.780 just had like a at seven mind you i don't know i don't know what the world's comprised of what

01:48:14.800 experiences i'll live i have no preconceived notions about any of this and i believe a child's

01:48:21.160 intuition is extremely valuable i think there's a lot of merit in what a child feels they're a

01:48:26.540 blank canvas what they see and experience is not rooted in any sort of inherent bias you're feeling

01:48:32.000 you're solely based on feeling i think that is an indicator that's important for me i asked her to

01:48:37.600 take me out of the classes and i wanted to stop going to church and she probably wanted to do

01:48:41.320 something else you're a kid you probably wanted to go out and skateboard it's you were pissed

01:48:45.200 it's it's not it wasn't a feeling of boredom it was a feeling of this doesn't feel right to me

01:48:50.500 that's what it was secondarily like i said the some of the obvious things that make me go this

01:48:56.960 contradicts itself in a way that i'm uncomfortable to providing my faith to is the gay marriage issue

01:49:02.860 is the abortion issue is the what was the other one there's a bunch of abortion of

01:49:10.260 uh i forget the other one intolerance of other people that's it that's it um yeah the intolerance

01:49:16.820 so so to me like those are that's such an obvious like how can we claim moral soundness when we're

01:49:24.080 alienating and isolating a lot of people in the world because of how they were born

01:49:30.440 that's where i that's that's okay it's succinctly that's where that's what i wrestle with well why

01:49:36.400 are people valuable why are why are people valuable from your perspective why are people

01:49:41.760 valuable i'm not sure people are valuable good i wouldn't i wouldn't say that's entirely true

01:49:45.740 but your whole argument has been gay people are valuable everybody's valuable i'm not willing to

01:49:51.820 apply that absoluteness to the sentence that people are valuable i think there are worthless

01:49:55.120 people on the planet that don't provide or make themselves useful at all to the benefit once again

01:49:59.960 but that's quite a judgment call yeah for sure right you said there are some people who are

01:50:05.480 really worthless and there are people who add value to the planet that's quite a judgment call

01:50:10.720 right it's also balance i believe i don't i don't think i'm willing to say people are are valuable

01:50:15.220 what about people what about people are valuable when they're valuable and at other times they're

01:50:21.640 not like making an absolute statement about someone's worth is is extremely challenging and

01:50:27.960 going back to my always on uh empathy that exists because of my background there was a time in my

01:50:35.360 life where i was valueless in fact i was a net negative for the world i was a terrible terrible

01:50:41.060 person and and if you had looked at me at that time you would have said this person is a stain

01:50:46.820 on society he should be removed from it i then took that experience wrote a book about it and

01:50:53.720 started to help instruct people how to get out of that worthlessness so to ever make an absolute

01:50:59.220 statement about anyone's worth on this planet whether good or bad is a mistake like adolf hitler's

01:51:05.640 mistake he really if if one if one thing had we've we've been through yeah we have or i would i would

01:51:11.580 i would slaughter him given the chance obviously sorry f adolf hitler one simple 0.96

01:51:19.080 change in his upbringing or his or his or his or his or his his personal evolution could have 0.97

01:51:26.300 pushed him in a completely different direction i just i i'm unwilling to to sit here and say

01:51:31.180 people are valuable knowing there's murders legit moral sin criminals out there like i that's a

01:51:38.800 blanket statement i'm well if you wanted to so if you want to remove murders and okay so put an

01:51:43.440 asterisk next to people are valuable do humans let's do good humans can we like can we get a

01:51:48.760 A little more specific with the sentence, so we can move to the next.

01:51:51.780 I am convinced that you are valuable not because you got a lot of viewers or a lot of likes.

01:51:56.680 I'm convinced you're valuable not because you got a large bank account.

01:51:59.760 I'm convinced you're valuable because you're a precious human being created in the image of God who God loves.

01:52:05.500 That's why you're valuable.

01:52:06.620 And I'm convinced that when you were living on the streets and homeless and a cocaine addict,

01:52:10.260 you were valuable because you were a human being created in the image of God.

01:52:14.660 But if you take God out of the picture, you're up a creek without a paddle when it comes to explaining

01:52:18.260 why why why is anybody innately valued and the sick thing is you and i live in a society that

01:52:26.080 says oh no no it's your likes it's your views it's the size of your stock portfolio it's the

01:52:31.440 style of car you drive the house you live in that's what makes you valuable or insignificant 0.69

01:52:36.260 it's your ethnic it's your ethnic heritage that makes you valuable or less valuable that is all 0.99

01:52:41.820 a crock it's all a lie according to the scriptures according to christ you're valuable you're

01:52:46.260 precious because you're a human being created in the image of God, and God's created you for a

01:52:50.560 purpose. I mean, just go to a cemetery. Look at the gravestone. Birth date, death date. What's in

01:52:57.900 between those two dates? A dash. Is that really what life is about? A dash from the hospital you're

01:53:04.280 born in to the hospital you die in? If that's true, we are not valuable. But if we're created by God

01:53:11.840 for a purpose, to love and worship Him and to love and serve each other, if we're created to live for 0.93

01:53:15.840 eternity in heaven by gollies we are really innately valuable then why does god create 0.97

01:53:22.360 murderers and scumbags he doesn't create people to he creates people to love and respect each other 0.82

01:53:27.320 but he's limited his power by giving us a free will and i'm real glad we have a free will because 0.99

01:53:33.080 if your wife just loves you because of who you are pretty shallow pretty trivial but if she really

01:53:38.820 loves you for who you are that's beautiful if she's really committed to you till death parts us

01:53:44.720 that's beautiful and that's what you long for it's what i long for it's what we all long for

01:53:48.620 that type of depth of love and friendship with each other

01:53:52.420 i would say that's why humans are valuable if i had to answer the question with an asterisk

01:53:59.860 including just excluding the mortal sin people i would say we're valuable because we mean

01:54:06.820 something to each other but you earlier talked about forgiveness you talked about our messed up

01:54:13.820 society and all the breakdown morally, all of the shouting at each other because there's no

01:54:19.580 objective morality. We all just disagree on what's right or wrong. I think you're appealing to

01:54:25.380 some type of source. You call it God, but it's something transcendent where you are ushering in

01:54:31.680 a type of value to human beings where it's, I think people should forgive each other. I think

01:54:37.100 people do have equal value and shouldn't be shouting each other down because we're all

01:54:41.360 created in God's image. And historically, that's what changed the world. Like when this atheist

01:54:46.860 was, he got a Pulitzer Prize, I think, for writing this book. Or is it a brief, no, it's not a brief

01:54:52.780 history of time, whatever the title is. It's an atheist writing it. And historically, he just

01:54:56.940 documents how the world totally changed when people started to understand that every single

01:55:01.960 human being has value because they're creating the image of God. This is an atheist writing this. 0.62

01:55:07.340 that totally changed my perception of things because i was where you are right now in thinking

01:55:13.220 oh no it's just a subjective thing and i'm gonna say who has value and who doesn't and so when a

01:55:17.460 college student says like i haven't i have no value because i'm still in college we get this

01:55:21.680 all the time and i'm gonna have value when i start making money it's like well you're gonna look at

01:55:25.120 people as dirtbags all the time because because the people who have less than money than you is

01:55:28.640 a caste system dude it's not it's it's i am not the person assigning value to to xyz but i am a

01:55:36.980 person who will tell you it's really hard for me to assign value to a person who or a person who

01:55:41.840 murders sure yeah that's hard for me agreed um same here yeah so like the blanket statement of

01:55:47.780 like humans are bro i think there's well yeah you could find an outlier for any for any situation

01:55:53.360 i think fully agree you know um um do you feel buttoned up there can i is there anything else

01:55:59.280 before i ask my next or do you want to ask something because i i have a less like just

01:56:03.640 are you gonna hit the abortion one or no you brought that let's talk about it let's i wasn't

01:56:07.760 you reminded me no no that's it's another thing i'm just you know i mean it's the that's the

01:56:12.680 classic like uh 12 year old is um and uh a subset of christians say she can't have an abortion

01:56:20.020 because it's it's it's against the bible um or it's illegal in their state and which i think

01:56:25.120 is another issue i mean the the intertwining of church and state is uh a little bit difficult

01:56:30.700 for me to get behind because even though you may be an american who lives in texas perhaps you're

01:56:35.880 not a christian perhaps you don't abide by christian um rules and beliefs and so you know

01:56:42.100 it's not a league it's not legal in texas to get an abortion but partially because the bible said

01:56:46.800 so when the um constitution was written it was heavily intertwined in that document and so

01:56:55.320 that's another thing i thought it was a little hard for me to to be able to get behind

01:56:59.160 i i i i really believe in women being able to make choices with their own body and i don't

01:57:05.100 think a a panel of men should have any say in that right you mentioned to us when we walked in

01:57:11.180 that you're here to see the the ultrasound of your child yep okay last generation yep it was

01:57:21.060 only 35 percent of the u.s was pro-life yep now it's 51 percent that's a pretty it's because of

01:57:29.420 ultrasound is that is that a pretty is that true that's true it's a pretty drastic change because

01:57:33.860 of ultrasound insane and i think right then and there you see obviously the baby being torn apart

01:57:40.580 you see the baby having emotions back to your point and you ascribe value to that fetus or

01:57:47.740 pre-fetus and so when i hear for example over in the netherlands you know i first heard it and i

01:57:54.420 got excited when i heard oh you know down syndrome they're finding a type of cure i found out they're

01:58:00.940 just aborting all down syndrome babies that's a cure that's a cure right that's some type of cure

01:58:06.680 and that's so it's describing zero value to down syndrome babies we have a bunch of down syndrome

01:58:12.880 kids in our church who are the happiest most joy-filled most life-giving human beings

01:58:20.320 imaginable and so that's when you play fast and loose i think with human life and again if you

01:58:26.300 don't describe value something outside of oh they're healthy or they're not going to be a

01:58:30.960 suck on society if it's something beyond that where it's no they have value no matter what

01:58:35.020 because they're created in god's image they reflect even god's image then you can't end that 0.98

01:58:40.500 life it's it's very funny you bring up the ultrasound thing we got the ultrasound of my

01:58:45.320 nice yeah unborn baby girl yesterday and and by the way you're absolutely right i'm i'm i'm super

01:58:50.920 pro-life i i i always will be i don't i think it's weird for anyone to decide what anyone else does

01:58:57.580 with their body that's insane well let me let me no no let me no let me i just want to i saw the

01:59:05.360 ultrasound yesterday 31 week old baby i saw fingers i saw hands i saw a baby i saw a little

01:59:13.020 human personally yeah seems a little up to abort a 21 year old week baby 21 year old week 21 week

01:59:22.540 old baby um yeah the ultrasound makes it super super real but in those odds instances and

01:59:30.920 unfortunate instances where like again it's always you always have people pushing back on the on the

01:59:36.300 conversation um or even like say someone determines they're not responsible enough and that's that's a

01:59:42.440 responsible decision in itself maybe i'm not at a point in my life where i'm willing to take care

01:59:47.420 of a child because i don't have the means the resources the finances i don't i'm not i'm not

01:59:51.440 stable enough in my own life to be able to bear this baby that's a i think responsible and like

01:59:57.560 maybe maybe a little bit of an ethical decision because you deemed you're not

02:00:02.300 able to raise this baby yet but but even your statement right there semi contradicts your

02:00:08.320 original statement which is that you shouldn't be passing any judgment on when abortion is or

02:00:14.680 isn't okay because the woman should have the whole say like in in like you in your original statement

02:00:20.240 if a woman says i want to abort this baby it's her body her choice so we all abide to that so

02:00:25.800 We should have no, we shouldn't even be having this discussion based on your original. 0.89

02:00:29.240 Well, that's what it is.

02:00:29.860 No, no, no.

02:00:30.180 We should be having this discussion because it's all a discussion.

02:00:32.900 I think at the end of the day, yeah.

02:00:34.240 At the end of the day, yeah, absolutely.

02:00:36.340 I will always, always side with a woman who wants to do what she wants to do with her body.

02:00:41.360 I believe that that woman. 0.90

02:00:42.540 So if Nina came, sorry to murder your baby again for the third time.

02:00:45.140 If Nina came up to you today and was like, listen, like I'm having second thoughts here.

02:00:49.400 Yep.

02:00:49.720 What I would do is have a prolonged discussion with her that I hope she'd be receptive to.

02:00:54.480 and i think that's like healthy you know well i mean what i guess what else can you do no no

02:01:00.100 i mean i don't know but like at the end of the day what am i going to force her to no that's

02:01:05.660 that's wild to me um yeah no you're right the ultrasound thing is interesting because i saw

02:01:13.280 this baby and i did have a thought like you know i'm pro-life but like killing this thing

02:01:16.640 a little fricked up if i were to like make that decision is is wild but you know in the instances

02:01:23.820 of the most unfortunate circumstances based on your scripture you're still unwilling to be okay

02:01:32.040 with that decision of killing an unborn child even if it was a product of

02:01:38.480 the bible never uses the word abortion okay the bible does say we're not to murder

02:01:47.200 and murder is killing motivated by selfishness hatred or revenge obviously there's such a thing

02:01:53.940 as self-defense which is different ethically so murder is killing motivated by selfishness

02:01:58.760 hatred or revenge all right so then obviously the hard question is when does human life begin

02:02:05.840 yeah right that's the hard question it's the question now between in every major university

02:02:13.020 hospital in the united states if a body lying on an intensive care bed has brain activity and

02:02:18.980 heartbeat brain activity and heartbeat doctors and nurses are legally medically responsible to do

02:02:24.520 everything within their power to sustain that life so between six to ten weeks after conception

02:02:30.800 that quote little piece of skin in a woman's womb has both heartbeat and brain activity it has the

02:02:37.900 credentials to merit what we consider life that makes a lot of sense to me okay good so then the

02:02:43.820 question the difficult question becomes well what about before six to ten weeks all right

02:02:49.200 what is the difference between a two-week-old fertilized egg a six-month-old fertilized egg

02:02:57.520 and you. I would argue there is no difference in kind. There is a difference in degree,

02:03:04.460 obviously, of maturation. Different degree of maturation, no difference in kind. 100 times

02:03:11.340 out of 100, that little fertilized egg is going to come down a woman's birth canal,

02:03:15.220 never as an alligator, never as a chicken or a bunny rabbit, 100 times out of 100 as a baby,

02:03:20.840 as a human life. So therefore, I would argue that before six to 10 weeks, even though there

02:03:25.520 is no brain activity or heartbeat you've got a human being there because there's no difference

02:03:30.940 in kind just in degree of maturation so that is why i would be very very hesitant to go down the

02:03:38.420 abortion path makes sense that makes sense it totally makes sense i yeah i guess i'll always

02:03:45.120 fall back on like we can sit here on this couch and like talk as men about what we think about it

02:03:49.740 But, man, like men making decisions for women, like, really irks me. 0.82

02:03:55.560 Yeah. 1.00

02:03:56.320 The Christians haven't done a great job of helping out with adoption agencies 1.00

02:04:00.820 and raising up these babies. 1.00

02:04:02.800 Like, we still have to do a much better job.

02:04:04.700 And when that's structured and organized, I think there's a great answer to it, 0.99

02:04:08.460 even for the crack babies where the moms can't support the baby at all. 1.00

02:04:12.460 Yep. 0.99

02:04:12.900 There's no father.

02:04:14.120 All right.

02:04:14.780 Let's – you ready to move on?

02:04:16.960 Let's do it.

02:04:17.340 something less uh something less like intense can't be supernatural it's a little lighter

02:04:21.860 if you a little lighter yeah um i am so curious how there's so many different denominations in

02:04:29.160 the world so many different scriptures and so many people that believe so many different things

02:04:33.280 um and yet it seems like the entire world follows the christian calendar

02:04:41.780 right we're we all agree it's here 2024 we use the year zero jesus's death right his birth

02:04:52.740 jesus's birth yeah as as as well because there's a really simple answer to this

02:04:59.380 what because jesus existed in all the religions

02:05:02.620 but even though other religions don't worship him as the deity they do acknowledge that he a he

02:05:09.740 definitely 100 did exist and he not only did he exist even though we believe in a different deity

02:05:15.080 this deity is important enough that we agree that is here 2024 i just find that interesting

02:05:22.420 do you have any explanation i'm like wow we all came to this consensus i think it just shows why

02:05:28.280 so many historians it's like consensus that he was the most impactful historical figure

02:05:33.100 bar none yep they'd say buddha your buddha statue i like that he's gone buddha was like number two

02:05:39.300 but uh so you were close yeah you were close there but i so i think just again it gets back

02:05:44.480 to the impact i love mike i didn't know that you knew that because i didn't know that until real

02:05:47.640 recent how jesus is the only religious commonality literally commonality but also every single

02:05:54.360 religion looks at jesus in a positive way no other historical figure even comes close to

02:06:00.400 transcending that and being in every holy book and i think that says something as well just the

02:06:05.540 impact for sure i'm just always fascinated by that like like we're here we are like currently

02:06:11.320 warring over what we believe in yeah and we all agree that jesus was born on this day and we

02:06:18.040 decided to structure the entire world's calendar around that right it's merit in that again is a

02:06:22.480 schizophrenic just pulled off no i don't think so man i don't think i don't know do you guys believe

02:06:27.280 in the classically accepted appearance of jesus christ like what do you think what do you think

02:06:32.300 Saul and Paul, like, get knocked off the horse?

02:06:35.080 No, like, I just mean, like, long hair.

02:06:37.200 Oh, I see, I see.

02:06:38.120 Long, dark hair.

02:06:39.460 No, Jesus did not have blonde hair and blue eyes.

02:06:42.240 He was not a wasp. 0.86

02:06:43.820 He was not a Westerner. 0.99

02:06:45.020 He was a Jew.

02:06:46.920 And obviously, there's been a boatload of racism 0.80

02:06:49.460 that has been justified in the name of Christianity. 0.99

02:06:52.000 It's sick. 0.97

02:06:52.700 It's sad. 0.92

02:06:53.740 There's been a bunch of anti-Semitism in the name of Christianity, 0.98

02:06:56.720 which is sick and sad. 0.78

02:06:58.400 There's been a bunch of prejudice against Arab people, against African-Americans, Africans. 0.69

02:07:05.420 It's tragic.

02:07:07.020 Jesus does not come for one race.

02:07:08.860 He comes for the world.

02:07:10.260 He loves every single one of us.

02:07:12.660 It's a very interesting moment in time to be a Christian.

02:07:18.080 And I want to ask you regarding, I carefully ask you regarding the ongoing conflict in Gaza.

02:07:28.400 um the general consensus of the of the christian world on what we are seeing in gaza right now

02:07:36.920 and i know that's a loaded question i asked it specifically and you know i mean man there's

02:07:45.520 there's probably personal thoughts on it and intellectual thoughts on it but i guess like

02:07:50.140 is there anything that the christian faith could lead us towards as we as we try to or at least as

02:07:57.080 we watch this situation unfold and hopefully get resolved. Thugs are evil regardless of their

02:08:05.180 nationality. Thugs are evil regardless of their ethnic heritage. Why? Because morality is not

02:08:13.380 relative. And we know that as children, we say it's not fair that my sister got two scoops of

02:08:18.160 ice cream and I only got one. And we know that as spouses, as we look into the face of our spouse

02:08:23.020 and say, you should not have said that to me. You should not have treated me that way. You can't

02:08:29.820 live out moral relativism. It does not work. So thugs are evil regardless of what their ethnic

02:08:36.480 heritage is. And Jesus Christ calls us to respect all human beings because we all are created in the

02:08:42.140 image of God. And he loves us so much that he sent his son Christ to buy us back, to redeem us, to

02:08:47.720 give us eternal life. And there is no message that so affirms human life as what Jesus taught,

02:08:54.740 that we are going to be in heaven when we trust in him for eternity. That is the greatest

02:08:59.400 affirmation of life. And in heaven, there are going to be people of every language, tribe,

02:09:04.780 language, people group. Whenever you see power behind the Christian faith, so whether it's

02:09:11.000 Constantine who took the Christian faith to try and use it, 325, if you see it in this case,

02:09:16.180 whether it's israelis or palestinians i think that's where christians need to run whether it's

02:09:22.000 you know this side's getting more artillery or this side is claiming that you know terrorists

02:09:29.260 are not really terrorists and it's just all the media and that the world trade center a girl was

02:09:33.560 just telling me who shut down a bridge in arkansas protesting and then she was convincing me on the

02:09:37.700 plane that you know there's there are no terrorists in the world who are connected to hamas or anything 0.82

02:09:42.480 like that you know whatever side claims to have this type of of power where they can infuse terror

02:09:48.900 into it that's anti-christian because again this all gets back to value of life and if everybody

02:09:55.020 has equal value you're going to have the best type of peace this world can see like it's it can't be

02:10:01.680 subjective if i start saying you have value and you start saying you don't have value because you

02:10:05.600 you're just get it's just going to separate everybody and so i i think it's fascinating

02:10:12.160 again your your power question was you know history's written just by the powerful well

02:10:17.340 why would in the world anybody want to be a christian one within the first 300 years of christ

02:10:22.060 you were losing property losing family members and then you either went to prison or killed

02:10:26.340 yourself and yet so many thousands of people were doing it based off i went his testimony and claims

02:10:31.520 and then you see historically like whenever again whether it's church and state you brought up that

02:10:36.860 as well whenever christians try and claim power and bring power into the gospel it just dies

02:10:42.860 absolutely dies the power comes from the weakness and the love you know what's interesting i look i

02:10:47.800 look a lot at like human nature it's how i make a lot of decisions like i'm a marketer i don't know

02:10:53.360 how well you guys know me but i i really enjoy marketing um and i think it's because i like

02:10:58.000 understand people or like at least like what captivates and i believe i can tell stories

02:11:03.240 and so if i were to just look like objectively at like what you've hit upon multiple times now

02:11:09.500 not to not to say anything about about what you've said cliff but like i i i resonate with

02:11:14.540 like the logic of what you're saying like a lot and and specifically with just like the human

02:11:20.140 nature of the resilience of this belief it it does seem like something happened something really

02:11:29.400 special magical and significant happened that influenced a ton of people to subscribe to

02:11:37.080 christianity and so it is hard it's hard you can't you can't write it off as as as false like it like

02:11:45.460 i you know i i don't know if i'm ever gonna ever be able to like put my foot down on something um

02:11:51.580 but um i i did want to ask just this is more like just like it's a tactical like logical question

02:11:58.000 um and by the way do you guys have to go to the bathroom or anything are you okay you're good on

02:12:02.620 time okay how about you i'm chilling dude unbelievably for the first time in 400 episodes

02:12:08.480 like i have to use the bathroom oh that's fine i want to talk about supernatural can i i i want to

02:12:13.640 that's kind of where i was going oh okay but not i'll wait let's take a go ahead because we'll sit

02:12:19.220 and talk about all kinds of money if we take a five okay be right back everybody feeling all

02:12:24.020 emptied out yeah holy spirit move holy spirit activate may got to make room for more godliness

02:12:30.980 yo that cannot be right whatever's happening on here

02:12:33.700 it would have been perfect if logan said come on guys i'm just not buying the

02:12:43.320 chick god show me a sign and two window washers crashed through the window and he's like still

02:12:49.540 not behind it need more signs um what is going on dude all right mike want to talk about supernatural

02:12:56.580 yeah can i can lead it go for okay okay i want to talk to you guys about supernatural happenings

02:13:02.460 because we talked about like simulations before you lived 100 lifetimes do you still become a

02:13:07.100 pastor like that kind of stuff is like super interesting and exciting to people nowadays

02:13:11.940 and i don't really ever like give it too much thought but the other day i was at dinner with

02:13:16.420 my family because i'm i'm sorry bro i cannot move forward with this scaffolding collapsing

02:13:21.820 outside the window no this is actually a dangerous situation that's what i'm saying

02:13:25.360 oh it's getting a good swing on it leave your scaffolding

02:13:31.900 let me take a look dude this is actually kind of crazy dude

02:13:37.420 is there anyone is there anyone physically there don't stick your head out

02:13:48.000 who's who's in charles charles this guy is this you two that's his drink oh just him yeah

02:14:02.780 no i know i wish right it would be cool if it was the two of us well we've been having

02:14:07.320 conversations about it lately he i've gotten them these are good thank you bro thank him

02:14:12.320 wait wait what'd you say you drink them after staff meetings you do a sandwich place

02:14:16.120 yeah oh you actively drink prime totally that's awesome yeah what's that what sandwich place is

02:14:24.220 it oh i know you probably know it what sandwich is it club sandwich yeah guys club sandwich in

02:14:29.380 new canin has prime which is crazy that's nuts uh okay so i'm at dinner with my family being a

02:14:35.340 family guy my my uh little uh niece is there and it's just we're at this korean restaurant in

02:14:40.780 connecticut westport connecticut ironically last week for mother's day and i got this strange urge

02:14:47.080 to just out of nowhere i was like i'm gonna i sorry i have to leave i'm gonna go call gag and

02:14:53.300 that was my grandma that was her nickname she's passed away two years ago and she was like my

02:14:57.960 closest person and we were like best friends and i was gonna go call my grandmother and everybody

02:15:02.940 was like what are you talking about i was like yeah i just need to get that phone from the

02:15:06.240 twilight zone i'm a huge twilight zone fan and there's this episode where uh this this little

02:15:11.540 boy is able to call his grandmother using this this magic phone and she's she's past she's in

02:15:15.860 heaven conversation changes everything ends and i go home and i'm a bit of a gambler i'm working

02:15:23.800 on it but i go home and i want to check on the game and i flip on the television and there's

02:15:31.420 the little boy on the phone in the episode of the twilight zone on the television like this is not

02:15:37.240 probably someone is imagining that i'm making this up right now like i took a picture of the

02:15:42.540 screen sent it to all my friends sent it to the group chat i had this weird urge to talk about

02:15:48.340 calling my grandmother like in this episode of the twilight zone i got home and that episode was on

02:15:52.160 the television people said well yeah it's because your phone's listening to you it was on cable

02:15:55.480 they didn't change the cable schedule based on my conversation at the Korean restaurant Westport

02:16:00.220 something happened there there was a skip on the record there was some there's no coincidence in

02:16:07.720 the world that could explain those two things happening in a conjunction like that what does

02:16:15.460 christianity tell us about signs from god or from the afterlife or or so on and so forth

02:16:23.080 i think we make two mistakes as christians one to just totally write it off and just say oh no

02:16:33.280 it's a coincidence two is to say oh clearly god's telling me something in every situation

02:16:40.120 and then they come see me because they turn schizophrenic yeah yeah so i i think we got to

02:16:46.720 be very careful because of 9-11 a lot of people would say oh that's god's judgment on new york

02:16:51.120 city because it's such a hedonistic oh my gosh market i don't think i mean how do you how do you

02:16:56.640 come to that conclusion i think signs do we have signs of earthquakes do we have signs of terrorist

02:17:03.720 activity do we have signs that the catholic church talks about in terms of power plays

02:17:08.880 that are connected to the book of revelation sure but the challenge there becomes are we going to

02:17:14.800 put billboards up saying that because of these signs christ is going to return tomorrow no i'm

02:17:20.360 not talking about sodom and gomorrah i'm talking i'm talking just about these little

02:17:25.820 like does christianity provide us any kind of understanding of a link between the here and

02:17:36.400 the then or the here and the there if that makes sense do we still have a connection to our

02:17:44.220 our ancestors the people have passed are they showing us things should we be on the lookout

02:17:49.800 or is that blasphemous like do we know anything about that when Saul consulted the dead through

02:17:56.740 Samuel that's looked upon as in a very poor light oh Ouija board types exactly so clearly that's a

02:18:03.920 sin. And talking to relatives, I don't get anywhere in scripture that that's a good thing

02:18:09.160 because in scripture we get frequently that we're going to have resurrection bodies physically being

02:18:14.140 able to encounter one another and love each other in ways that we couldn't even do it here. We

02:18:20.180 couldn't even imagine what that type of love is going to be like. So for example, back to the

02:18:24.360 emotions piece, you know, you have Buddhism and it talks about how you lose your individual self

02:18:29.180 when you go into this all soul and there's no ability to really communicate and have a

02:18:35.540 relationship with one another because you've lost yourself. But Christianity is, yeah, you're not 0.83

02:18:39.480 talking to a loved one. I think you get in all kinds of trouble when you try and consult the 1.00

02:18:45.900 dead, for example, like Saul did specifically. It's a waiting period where a lot of people will

02:18:52.760 believe in soul sleep, where you eventually wake up into the presence of God, but that's going to

02:18:56.620 take a long time until the judgment comes unless it's that soon or people believe no it's when i

02:19:01.620 depart i am with christ and i think that's pretty clear out of hebrews 9 27 where when we pass away

02:19:08.080 we are immediately with christ and we don't have connection to one another it's not this we hate

02:19:12.640 hearing at funerals this whole line of you know an atheist will say oh yeah the spirit lives on

02:19:17.200 spirit lives on like i've never believed in god i've never had any type of contact and supernaturally

02:19:22.180 I think it's a joke, but I'll be playing with Paul and golf and some type of hereafter.

02:19:28.260 And all of a sudden, they believe in heaven.

02:19:30.680 And all of a sudden, the spirit lives on because they encounter death.

02:19:35.520 So that's always been, we see that tremendous inconsistency when they're slapped in the face with death.

02:19:41.320 That is kind of, I think it points to the experiential side of, no, we long for heaven.

02:19:46.420 Like when Steve Jobs died, Steve Jobs was a strong atheist and he hated Christianity.

02:19:52.180 But he got to this point of saying, I don't believe all my work is just going to fade away.

02:19:56.940 I don't believe all this relational connection that I've had and built up my whole life

02:20:00.980 that it's just going to end with the click of a mouse.

02:20:04.360 And so he became a believer.

02:20:06.160 So I think when you face death, there's nothing in scripture that talks about consulting

02:20:09.660 and having that type of connection.

02:20:12.680 If it's not in a dark kind of way where you're consulting.

02:20:15.680 I didn't do anything.

02:20:16.640 I just turned the TV on.

02:20:18.040 Right, right.

02:20:18.440 It was just there.

02:20:19.060 I just was just curious about anything that God or anyone in the Scriptures

02:20:23.120 or anywhere has ever said about signs of any kind.

02:20:26.740 So Gideon, where would you go?

02:20:30.220 The Bible insists that God is the eternal creator.

02:20:33.600 So he's outside of space, outside of time,

02:20:36.220 which obviously means he's a spiritual being.

02:20:38.300 Interstellar.

02:20:39.360 Correct.

02:20:40.240 But it also communicates that God has stepped into space and time

02:20:44.420 in the person of his son, Jesus Christ,

02:20:46.140 and God's Holy Spirit is at work in our lives today.

02:20:50.300 Second point, yes, there are signs.

02:20:52.760 We have to be very, very careful

02:20:54.340 because that gets to be hocus pocus, all right?

02:20:57.380 Yes, Gideon said, really, God, 1.00

02:20:59.100 are you telling me to kick the Midianites 0.70

02:21:00.460 out of Palestine, out of Israel? 1.00

02:21:02.160 Fine. 0.80

02:21:03.260 Tomorrow morning, I want the fleece on the ground dry

02:21:07.720 and all the ground around it wet.

02:21:09.540 Well, that happens.

02:21:11.100 God gave him that sign.

02:21:12.720 Not enough for me.

02:21:13.580 i want the fleece soaking wet all the ground dry tomorrow morning well that happens this was not a

02:21:19.820 sign of gideon's faith it was a sign of his doubt he really doubted god but god honored him in spite

02:21:25.180 of that and gave him those signs and gideon went on so i would encourage you to be very careful of

02:21:29.860 signs but yes does god give signs absolutely yes and the bible records many of them got it

02:21:37.420 wow where were you going in the supernatural world logan actually it wasn't supernatural

02:21:44.240 natural no yeah more natural super super super got something super super for you guys all right

02:21:51.080 got a hypothetical and then i have a question that i have been dying to ask you guys uh just

02:21:57.320 super logical tactical but we'll get there well don't die till you accept god to christ for sure

02:22:02.440 for sure sorry so my first question um forgot it sorry was it the window washers no um oh

02:22:11.120 all right i asked you about ufos earlier

02:22:14.620 so so so look there's something going on there is something going on with extra no no no i'm not

02:22:27.000 gonna say extraterrestrial life because we don't know what it is there is definitely something

02:22:30.920 going on with uap unidentified aerial phenomena that is a fact congress is now finally admitting

02:22:37.960 to it we're getting little hints and tidbits here and there stuff is leaking that we're seeing

02:22:42.200 about um propulsion vehicles and machines that defy uh physics as we know it they can create

02:22:48.740 their own gravity and that's how they're flying through space which by the way i i i think is

02:22:53.720 probably what's happening you see these uh these um usually the the orbs or some some type of

02:23:00.640 machine without any like identifiable propulsion system um using what's potentially maybe they're

02:23:06.660 calling like a warp drive where these things can create their own gravity um the guy uh who went

02:23:11.840 on joe rogan's podcast and said he worked at area 51 um he he was talking about how he was working

02:23:17.980 on an anti-gravity or gravity creation device that he found and that's what the government was

02:23:23.800 working they're trying to reverse engineer it anyways this tech that i believe exists that we

02:23:30.020 will find out more and more about in the next couple decades um i think could be an interesting

02:23:38.300 window into the very far future perhaps it is extraterrestrial life what if some sort of advanced

02:23:46.860 civilization creature or technology comes down to earth and they're obviously probably going to

02:23:54.600 laugh at some of the stuff we do but they have answers to the origins of the universe or maybe

02:23:59.760 they don't just like us they're like we don't we have no idea which is gonna be me me we don't

02:24:04.840 know what the heck is going on which would be horrifying but what if they do have answers

02:24:10.080 and what if some of their answers are practical and completely negate the idea of like

02:24:17.100 a dds creation moment or they do have some sort of explanation for life and why we're here

02:24:27.120 or they have video for content i don't know what i don't know what they have but but but the

02:24:31.960 question is if like you were like if if some sort of extraterrestrial creature came down to earth

02:24:37.280 in this hypothetical scenario and showed us and like yeah like no no this was the origin of the 0.97

02:24:41.900 universe this is why you're here this is what what you're doing would you be like damn

02:24:46.740 i guess what i believed isn't true he did would that be hard for you lift like and i know this 0.85

02:24:54.440 i know this sounds ridiculous but like man in 40 50 60 years maybe something like this happens and

02:25:01.200 i'm calling stewart i'll say yo stew they're saying they got explanations what do you say

02:25:07.900 i'm with them i think i think there's so much you have to do to discount the christian faith

02:25:18.680 Like it's not just an ossuary, a tomb that you roll over and you see Jesus' DNA somehow.

02:25:24.820 I would need more than even that to discount the Christian faith.

02:25:28.640 You know, I would, you have so much geographically that is connected. 0.96

02:25:34.160 I mean, when you go to Israel, for example, you get a Christian tourist to show you all of Israel from directly the book of Acts.

02:25:42.720 Because no other book comes close to showing you the correct geography or these historical figures. 0.76

02:25:48.680 Caesar, all these others, or all of the different

02:25:51.420 archaeological evidence that we have, I think is

02:25:53.140 just so clearly

02:25:55.080 Christian, that Christ actually lived,

02:25:57.480 died, and rose from the dead. 0.99

02:25:59.180 So, you know, take away the aliens,

02:26:01.760 you would need a ton to show me

02:26:03.340 that the resurrection didn't occur, and that

02:26:05.300 all these events didn't occur. If the aliens

02:26:07.420 come down, and they truly

02:26:09.280 show me that, no, there was

02:26:11.260 no creator because there was no beginning,

02:26:13.280 there was no beginning of time,

02:26:15.020 let's say the multiverse, it's just

02:26:17.160 time has lasted forever.

02:26:18.680 and so you don't need a god yeah you need a god if time has beginning that's why einstein had a

02:26:22.860 fudge factor he didn't want there to be a god but he said let's let's create a fudge factor to make

02:26:26.660 it seem like the universe has lasted forever but it hasn't lasted forever so he had to become

02:26:30.640 a polytheist at least so if the aliens come down and say no the world is the world is x amount of

02:26:37.840 years and the cosmos has lasted forever i would have to say yeah there's there's probably no god

02:26:43.900 what would you go with i do not know if they're aliens or not i'm totally open to it

02:26:52.260 second point is obviously the bible talks about angels and demons so obviously there's some type

02:26:57.560 of non-human life that's real third point what i have thought about is if aliens came tomorrow

02:27:04.020 and said that it was good to slaughter human beings and to eat them as hamburgers

02:27:10.640 what would be wrong with that see the moral relativist has no answer to that the moral

02:27:16.720 relativist says morality is just relative which means today we kill cows and eat hamburgers

02:27:23.560 we humans kill cows eat hamburgers so if aliens were to come tomorrow start killing us and eat

02:27:29.220 human burgers something absolutely wrong with that because morality is relative there's a

02:27:34.300 twilight zone episode with that exact purpose okay not even kidding now because there is a god who's 0.89

02:27:40.120 eternal who's the creator no i would argue it is wrong to kill humans murder humans and eat human

02:27:48.100 burgers because god created human beings with an innate value so that doesn't change so i wouldn't

02:27:55.680 be blown out of the water at all if next year we found out definitely aliens exist in their

02:28:00.600 extraterrestrial life it's totally compatible with the bible's worldview okay cool what if

02:28:07.060 they came down and said the earth was flat i would say that they probably are out of touch

02:28:12.180 with reality because to the best of my ability using modern science the evidence is the earth

02:28:17.840 is not flat it's round what if they said they tried to land in china and they were under the

02:28:21.360 earth so they had to come back around and land on top of the map i wouldn't believe him yeah i

02:28:25.680 wouldn't believe him either there's a lot of christians who think the earth is flat do you

02:28:29.560 know this do you know this we went to a flat earth convention and the amount of christians

02:28:32.980 who were like well i believe stars are angel wow you're this flat because the bible says so yeah

02:28:37.260 it's weird the overlap is strange there's an overlap between the conspiracy theories and and

02:28:41.680 and does that exist with any other religions there's a scripture about there's a some passage

02:28:47.320 about um what is the term that's used the it describes the shape of the earth and there's

02:28:53.920 one word that is like it's similar to like dome oh the fixture the no the filament the filament

02:29:03.760 something about the filament yeah yeah yeah and i think i think you know the subjective nature of

02:29:08.840 it these people are like yeah well it's got to be flat why are they always from that area of the

02:29:13.700 well jesus said i'm the door it doesn't mean he's claiming to be two pieces of plywood slapped

02:29:17.820 together he said i am the vine you are the branches he's not claiming to be a plant he's

02:29:22.160 using metaphor similarly well christians take two in psalms the earth has been fixed on its axis

02:29:27.440 so they thought oh it doesn't road yeah yeah yeah it could be something the book of psalms is

02:29:32.800 it's poetry yeah and so when christians rip you know all kinds of literalism oh that's where the

02:29:39.480 cherry picking yeah yeah it comes from you know exactly like i don't know um animal animal heaven

02:29:45.660 the animals go to heaven and hell was i'm just so curious like like i have a good boy i have a very

02:29:50.960 good boy dog and when he passes away like you gotta go to dog heaven like what what is what is

02:29:57.160 the requirements to go to the eternal afterlife do i have to be a human the lion will lie down

02:30:03.060 with the sheep that's the reference we get okay now you could take that metaphorically

02:30:10.460 but no i think i think what about the xl bully what's that the xl bully or the puggle where do 0.99

02:30:16.200 they lie down if a sheep gets in everybody gets in sheep are the dumbest animals supposedly in 0.99

02:30:22.400 the world right their brains the size of ping pong balls like you have to have shepherd for a sheep 0.99

02:30:26.000 or it dies just one more one more question about that uh what's what type of real estate we dealing

02:30:32.360 with up there because like yeah dude what if we run out of space you know what i'm saying and

02:30:38.000 then they're like dude like nah you guys got to go to freaking tuscaloosa you know what i'm saying 0.54

02:30:44.800 like you can't come here this is awful sorry that's a ridiculous question well why because i 0.68

02:30:50.440 actually believe you're mocking it a little bit no i'm not if it's like an eternal afterlife like

02:30:54.820 the the rules and bounds of space and time don't try to project your mockery on no i'm actually i

02:30:59.600 actually think you're asking i'm not i'm really not i swear i am okay that's ridiculous let's put

02:31:05.660 some some like theoretical or or philosophical beliefs on what the afterlife looks like for a

02:31:14.500 second right is it a place in time is it a it is is it a a energy encapsulation like if we are

02:31:24.220 assuming some semblance of individuality as a human like maybe do we take up space how is that 0.85

02:31:31.540 such ridiculous i don't believe that's a ridiculous question you're just maybe it's maybe it's 0.90

02:31:36.120 blasphemous in that it believes that god could not provide a large enough real estate technically 0.91

02:31:42.620 i guess so maybe questioning that the size of the land potentially well it's not land it's

02:31:48.280 clouds listen to guys dude

02:31:50.420 he said some crazy stuff today dude okay like let's go back to say anything i just asked let's

02:31:58.120 go question what i asked what if they run out of space that's all i said stephen hawking said

02:32:02.840 yeah thank you god exactly because the universe was too big and my point is i'm sorry stephen

02:32:08.480 God is bigger than your ability or my ability to understand. He's the eternal, all-powerful

02:32:15.380 creator of heaven and earth, all right? So he's really, really big, and yes, the universe is

02:32:19.160 really, really big. Secondly, Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 is attacking the idea that heaven will be a

02:32:25.200 disembodied spirit existence, and he points out, no, in heaven we're going to have resurrection

02:32:30.540 bodies, imperishable bodies, immortal bodies, and he was attacking Gnostic philosophy, which teaches

02:32:37.560 the body is evil and the spirit is good no the bible teaches both the body and the spirit are

02:32:42.380 good because god made both so in heaven we will have real bodies but they will not decay grow old

02:32:49.980 and die the way our bodies do today we don't get new bodies new bodies bro i'm looking forward to

02:32:57.180 new ankles this is incredible new joints how old are you dude so do you want this body or do you

02:33:04.460 want younger you want yeah no i'm younger for sure dude for sure i try to keep up with my

02:33:09.300 testosterone to stay young but dude i can only do so much about these joints they're decaying quick

02:33:14.620 i have antique bones they're turning to dust as we speak it is crazy to think though how are we

02:33:22.120 going to recognize each other at what age i keep telling grandpa's 22 i'm going to recognize yeah

02:33:27.440 yeah i keep telling my fiancee nina i'm like yo we got to find each other in the next life but

02:33:32.140 Like, how will I even, like, where do I start?

02:33:33.960 Like, what are you going to look like?

02:33:34.880 Right, right.

02:33:35.520 I'm actually going to see what I know what I look like.

02:33:37.740 All right, here's a question I really want to ask.

02:33:39.240 All right.

02:33:40.200 You believe in evolution.

02:33:41.680 You say you believe in evolution.

02:33:42.780 Yeah.

02:33:43.900 But isn't the Bible kind of anti-evolution?

02:33:46.640 No.

02:33:47.260 No.

02:33:47.800 No.

02:33:48.560 Why do a subset of Christians vehemently deny evolution

02:33:53.840 and the theory of evolution?

02:33:54.960 because they have a very tough time with the age of the earth so they'll say it's 6 000 years old

02:34:05.300 and so they'll really really push back against a lot of scientific theory okay and they are scared

02:34:14.400 of the term evolution oftentimes because they directly connect it with naturalism

02:34:19.940 where you're going to have to say there is no God.

02:34:24.620 And what's so interesting about evolution,

02:34:25.940 if there is no God, then you just go back to

02:34:27.720 we came from a primordial soup.

02:34:30.320 That's what they believe.

02:34:31.260 That's what I read in the great state of Connecticut,

02:34:33.460 public schools, everywhere in middle school

02:34:35.260 it says we came from a primordial soup.

02:34:37.800 There is no evidence for that at all.

02:34:42.000 So how scary is that? 1.00

02:34:43.060 Christians always get pegged for the ones 0.94

02:34:44.720 brainwashing their kids 0.98

02:34:46.700 with all sorts of different types of doctrine.

02:34:48.920 i think i think our culture today you know secular culture today is brainwashing kids with with the

02:34:55.680 primordial soup and so from my perspective no there has to be a god and that god created us

02:35:02.660 in such a way where we are made in his image we have value but we have sin and evil comes into

02:35:08.620 play when you have sin and so when you have something like evolution you look at a bug

02:35:14.660 landing on a frog slowly sucking its brains out and if we're simply created from the naturalistic

02:35:23.480 perspective where there is no god that should be normal for us like like okay what's wrong with

02:35:29.160 that it's just part of evolution and so for me you know adaptation is not in any way contradictory

02:35:36.680 what the bible talks about the bible again it's not a scientific textbook even though it has

02:35:41.160 taxonomy, you know, counting up with the animals, for example, going into the ark, or Daniel, for

02:35:46.420 example, doing tests around whether to eat vegetables or not. There is different forms of

02:35:50.580 science, but overall it's, I love when atheists or Christians try and turn it into a scientific 1.00

02:35:56.200 textbook and say, it's exactly saying this, the amount of years, how old the earth is, or for

02:36:02.560 example, you know, does it spin on its axis? You know, St. Augustine came in and cleared all that

02:36:07.780 up he's probably the most influential christian of all time any martin luther as well and he said

02:36:13.580 basically like look we're not going to cherry pick but we are going to look at the science

02:36:17.940 and we're going to take the science and say does our interpretation of scripture really fit here

02:36:23.680 or not and we're not going to be we're not again we're not going to cherry pick and we're not

02:36:27.620 going to be dishonest in it neil degrasse tyson the guy i'm sure he's i'm sure he's nice in many

02:36:33.940 ways but he came on and said look you christians all you do is you reinterpret in order to fit the

02:36:40.060 science and you're totally disingenuous in it that's not true at all that's not what saint

02:36:44.220 augustine was after it's not like galileo all christians were after they were saying no scripture

02:36:49.340 doesn't speak to it it's silent so don't add to it or we have to reinterpret because that's not

02:36:55.020 exactly what psalms the book of psalms and poetry is talking about you you're you're willing to

02:37:01.760 consider the idea of reinterpretation yes if we've missed exactly context is king but that

02:37:09.200 doesn't that kind of like indicate the subjective nature of all of it

02:37:12.480 no i i think it's so it's god breathes the scripture is and so that means god used human

02:37:19.820 authors it's not like certain holy books where it's god just out of the sky came this holy book

02:37:24.940 No, he actually used human beings to write it, and there's 400,000 different variants

02:37:31.600 that we got wrong, but it didn't change any of the central tenets in the teaching

02:37:38.280 theologically of what the Bible says, and so just because those variants are wrong,

02:37:43.000 like a comma here is wrong because it was misrepresented by a monk, which by the way,

02:37:48.060 I think your earlier point on historicity, you know, the monks so carefully transmitted

02:37:54.520 the Bible and everything in it that one would come in. If they got one word wrong in writing

02:38:00.720 on one page, they would have to leave. And then two more would have to come in. If they got one

02:38:06.200 comma wrong, they would have to leave. So they basically passed on all of the Christian words

02:38:11.360 and scripture, as well as everything classical, all the classical history. So I think they got

02:38:16.360 it right but the interpretation we've had to work on work on work on and figure out hey should we

02:38:22.640 be handling snakes and the snakes bite us and we die or so hey in pennsylvania for example the girl

02:38:27.540 who had pneumonia and the christian parents said no no no the bible clearly says we're not supposed

02:38:32.240 to use medicine and we're supposed to pray this thing out she dies on the way to the hospital

02:38:36.240 because they waited so long no i i think their interpretation is probably wrong on that okay i

02:38:40.940 um um this this leads into my next question the one i really want to ask okay so first let me

02:38:46.560 ask a question the uh uh the bible was actually written in what year first century some the new

02:38:55.860 testament the new testament sometime in the first century okay and jesus was born in an year zero

02:39:01.900 about four or five bc the monk got it wrong who put the calendar oh oh really bad comma

02:39:08.380 but there were two more that came in after me yeah yeah exactly

02:39:14.160 okay here's the question all right so you believe in evolution same you you you look

02:39:20.200 and acknowledge scientific evidence as as truth at least as far as we know some stuff seems to

02:39:25.460 make sense um homo sapiens humans have been around for 200 000 years that's like the general like

02:39:33.680 humans have been around for 200,000 years written history has been around for about 5,000 years

02:39:41.280 five six thousand years um before that i don't know if just we weren't smart enough to preserve

02:39:47.740 our history we didn't care enough we had bigger um fish to fry like at that time it was survival

02:39:53.780 right um but at some point we started preserving our history and then at some point organized

02:40:00.500 religion came around and and that was about i think two year two three thousand bc

02:40:06.900 so you have 200 000 years of humans just like you and i maybe not as intelligent

02:40:12.020 um but from the year zero when jesus came to be two year now is two thousand years so you have

02:40:18.260 about 95 of humanity that is unaccounted for in terms of the scaffolding dylan has anyone alerted

02:40:27.700 the building that's being demolished

02:40:29.620 what are they even doing though

02:40:31.400 but has anyone said

02:40:32.640 hey man your building's being

02:40:35.880 leveled

02:40:36.820 you said they stopped

02:40:39.440 and now they're going against

02:40:40.380 what is going mean

02:40:43.600 what are they doing

02:40:44.340 like they're going to kill someone that's walking down the street

02:40:47.280 is that what they're

02:40:47.940 oh here we go

02:40:50.320 seems like they've

02:40:51.700 at least the scaffolding is level

02:40:53.520 how does christianity explain something like this no i really want to ask this question

02:41:01.140 all right so the question is what about those 190 yeah bro you have you have 200 000 years

02:41:07.800 of humans 95 of them are unaccounted for because jesus wasn't around to say hey this is like the

02:41:14.860 scripture this means you go to heaven this means you go to hell what about them what about them

02:41:20.660 There are going to be a lot of people in heaven who never heard the word Jesus.

02:41:23.540 Hebrews chapter 11 in the New Testament lists some of these people by name.

02:41:27.020 Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Rahab, a Gentile prostitute. 0.96

02:41:30.920 Obviously, they never heard about Christ. 0.99

02:41:32.380 They were born hundreds, if not thousands of years before Christ.

02:41:35.500 But in humility, they put their faith in God.

02:41:39.060 And they're going to be in heaven.

02:41:39.960 But the reason they're going to be in heaven is because Christ bled and died on a cross

02:41:42.660 to pay the penalty for their sin.

02:41:45.140 And they put their faith in God to the best of their ability.

02:41:48.340 Population spike, huge.

02:41:49.980 literacy rate spike gigantic trade routes yeah gigantic spike yep makes all the sense in the

02:41:58.560 world to me why jesus came when he came okay it was like almost like a turning point in human

02:42:04.500 history i see okay but dang still like 200 000 years dang near of humans that didn't have any

02:42:13.920 sort of like spiritualistic guidance that's that's that's a lot of people who who by the way

02:42:20.440 definitely didn't subscribe to jesus christ because he didn't exist they didn't they didn't

02:42:24.720 know about him but god existed and in humility they put their faith in god and they're going

02:42:28.920 to be in heaven but it wasn't jesus right just abraham did not know jesus so abraham knew god

02:42:36.180 he had a faith in god but he did never not know jesus you're right so then the prerequisite for

02:42:41.200 heaven wouldn't necessarily be subscribing to jesus it would be subscribing to correct not

02:42:45.920 knowing his name exactly there are gonna be a lot of people in heaven including infants

02:42:49.560 who never knew the name jesus but who will be in heaven oh so if you didn't have if you don't have

02:42:53.960 access to the scripture then yeah you get a free pass basically we don't get a free pass the issue

02:42:59.920 is do you have you put your faith in god have you responded to all the knowledge that god has given

02:43:04.460 you what would that mean for a uh guy eating his own poop in a cave i don't know i do not know how

02:43:13.000 god will judge those who've never heard about christ got it but i do know he'll be just and

02:43:16.720 fair right christ and the bible really bang away on the character of god is just and fair nobody's

02:43:23.880 getting ripped off you don't have to worry about can i ask a question that all three of you are

02:43:27.720 going to easily answer and someone's going to just laugh at me in the comments um when we look

02:43:34.260 at evolution right and we look at other animals that have evolved to their current state of

02:43:43.380 evolution like the great white shark right or the squirrel right if we evolved from primates

02:43:52.420 why do so why are there still unevolved primates like i said this should have an easy answer that

02:43:59.380 i'm gonna be all right like why are there humans and our old ancestral non-evolved cousins do you

02:44:07.660 know what i'm saying if anybody tells you that science contradicts the bible they either don't

02:44:12.680 know what science is or they've not read the bible science is a study of process there is no study of

02:44:20.440 process anywhere in the bible no geology no biology no chemistry no physics anywhere in the bible so

02:44:27.340 whoever tells you Bible contradicts science either haven't read the Bible or they don't know what

02:44:32.840 science is. So that is why Stuart and I are totally open to evolution as a process, but not as an

02:44:40.220 origin. The Bible does contradict evolution as an origin, but not as a process. The Bible clearly

02:44:48.020 says in the beginning God, not in the beginning hydrogen. In other words, there's an intelligent

02:44:54.900 mind behind the process of evolution that makes much more sense than there's no intelligent mind

02:45:00.780 behind the process it all just happened by accident does that make sense yeah uh it does

02:45:06.140 and i'm with you on that like who pushed the button on the big bang i think i might have the

02:45:09.980 answer yeah do you okay yeah i mean it's there are a number of factors that contribute to

02:45:14.680 evolutionary change right and adaptation uh location environment resources length of time

02:45:22.820 everything it'd be like asking um you know why is my puggle not still a wolf

02:45:29.940 like like like dogs came no but that's a crossbreed though

02:45:37.320 they have a common ancestor so it's not like a chimpanzee sort of turned into a human

02:45:43.180 it's it's not like one it doesn't mean one one can exist and one cannot exist like

02:45:49.980 got it there there's a number of factors that go into evolution and so i think i think they all

02:45:54.780 contribute to got it interesting because what's your struggle with that when it comes to no i

02:45:58.600 just i just like uh why is there like not less evolved gray whites right or are there are they

02:46:06.820 are they hammerheads do you know what i'm saying like oh yeah yeah okay god he said it's right

02:46:11.800 at some point in the evolutionary chain you have a common ancestor so we're just the alpha primate

02:46:16.780 it appears it certainly well it's in certain respects because from a power standpoint we'd

02:46:21.640 all get i mean i go back and forth on this like if i i tell the boys and i have this conversation

02:46:26.000 i'd rather not hear nah bro i don't want it on there is no there is no animal under 80 pounds

02:46:32.200 on this planet that i can't best including a chimpanzee i believe i could beat up well no 0.52

02:46:37.880 but i wasn't talking about a chimp i was talking about a silverback silverback i'm not even having

02:46:42.240 that conversation no but wait sorry under 80 jorge thinks jorge thinks jorge thinks a 30 pound

02:46:48.880 chimpanzee could take me out no but what about an 80 pound what about a 79 pound lynx no shot

02:46:55.200 absolutely there is no animal on this planet 79 pound cougar absolutely not no with with claws

02:47:03.820 like wolf doesn't matter it doesn't matter like doesn't matter i know jujitsu that's a triangle

02:47:08.840 dude you you're not

02:47:10.860 putting a cougar in a chokehold

02:47:13.000 and I don't maybe if it's a girl but

02:47:15.000 technically technically

02:47:17.020 since Nina's older than you

02:47:19.240 no disrespect that you put

02:47:21.120 a cougar in a chokehold

02:47:22.240 I totally did

02:47:25.160 though that's all I got

02:47:27.020 guys I gotta get out of here

02:47:28.320 you did you're right

02:47:30.320 I gotta get out of here

02:47:31.880 that was excellent

02:47:34.940 thank you so much

02:47:36.520 thank you for your knowledge and wisdom

02:47:38.740 your time um you guys are so articulate and and i i just admire your passion and ability to

02:47:45.060 express very complex uh solutions to hard questions based on what you believe it's like

02:47:52.680 it's really cool and science and science yeah i i uh i'm not a hyper skeptic i won't even call

02:47:58.580 myself a skeptic bro i'm just like am i a skeptic maybe maybe i don't know i'm just really curious

02:48:04.020 and like i just i like to ask questions i really like to ask questions and i think you guys have

02:48:10.060 a nice balance of of where i try to be and on the opposite end where like faith comes in and um i i

02:48:18.200 want to thank new york city for making this the noisiest podcast in the history of the universe

02:48:24.660 um cliff and stewart connectly thank you guys for coming on impulsive thank you guys ask questions

02:48:29.580 guys ask lots of questions but always do it respectfully and empathetically thank you guys

02:48:35.440 that's all we got guys thank you lisa tell them about our new show we have a new podcast it's

02:48:41.780 called don't lie to me i'm lexi uanu we're two best friends 22 years apart but so close at heart

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02:48:58.740 of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

02:49:05.280 you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman, Angela Gertana, Jeremy Culhane,

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Impaulsive with Logan Paul - May 21, 2024

Cliffe Knechtle Proves The Existence Of God To Logan Paul

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