Impaulsive with Logan Paul - Meet Palmer Luckey： The 31 Year Old Tech Billionaire Making Lethal Weapons For America

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00:00:30.920 Lisa, tell them about our new show.

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00:00:36.260 I'm Lexi Iwanu.

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00:02:12.800 The founder of Oculus Rift, the CEO of the military technology company for the government,

00:02:16.960 Palmer Lucky.

00:02:18.120 You guys both kind of have this thing that you're doing every day.

00:02:20.520 For me, it's building lethal autonomous weapons systems.

00:02:23.220 Which we'll get to.

00:02:24.340 Do people like Ninja become more valuable when we have avatars that they can control?

00:02:28.700 Ninja doesn't have what it takes.

00:02:30.240 He is going to be pissed.

00:02:31.080 You said that.

00:02:32.520 UAPs, Palmer Luckey.

00:02:33.700 They might not be aliens.

00:02:35.000 It might be time travelers from another dimension bleeding into our own.

00:02:38.420 Well, that's what's f***ing weirder.

00:02:40.700 But is there any part of you who also designed this for the other thing that people want to see inside a VR headset?

00:02:47.340 Look, man.

00:02:48.380 Of course.

00:02:49.040 do i look like i'm afraid of risk look at look at where i am today look at what i'm doing right

00:03:01.200 now today this potentially what i'm doing today is the biggest risk of them all i'm stepping in

00:03:06.920 uncharted territory here at the pasadena convention center to compete in the mod retro tetris

00:03:13.540 tournament the classic world tetris championships with the founder of mod retro the founder of

00:03:18.640 oculus riff the ceo of andrew the military technology company for the government ladies

00:03:23.120 and gentlemen it's palmer lucky

00:03:24.940 it's palmer lucky everybody what's up brother are you a headphones kind of guy

00:03:32.460 but not a microphone kind of guy well they mic'd me up earlier so i figured you wanted yeah you

00:03:39.340 wanted the body mic you know what okay so no headphones no no i'll wear headphones you don't

00:03:42.980 have to if you don't want to you have great hair now i've got good feedback okay okay one in one

00:03:47.980 ear in one ear out i've never seen anything maybe one time you need we may have had you need

00:03:51.740 situational awareness you never know who's going to be he really is a genius wow i've i've i've

00:03:56.760 had enough crazy shit happen in my life yeah i've yeah i have a i i don't i don't like covering

00:04:01.960 both ears okay any any examples now that i want to talk about in public i don't want to give people

00:04:06.940 any ideas i walked in today you're wearing a ditto shirt uh yeah i got this anime expo last

00:04:12.420 year there's a little a small seller who makes these i've got i've got this one i've got a

00:04:16.340 scissor shirt i've got one with all with eevee and all the eeveelutions come on let's go let's go

00:04:20.880 what's your favorite eevee evolution oh man probably vaporion yeah you know i think vaporion

00:04:25.460 is really the only choice yeah oh umbreon espion umbreon espion is pretty cool between the two

00:04:30.440 obviously umbreon uh yeah we're already geeking out i'm okay with it did you ever give or play

00:04:36.340 pokemon coliseum on gamecube yeah come on bro so i mean it was so interesting how they started you

00:04:41.480 out with Umbreon and Espeon as you start a Pokemon. Also, how hard does Pokemon Coliseum

00:04:46.500 go? Do you remember like the opening cinematic where it starts with you like breaking into a

00:04:50.940 terrorist base to just like steal a bunch of shit and you ride away on a motorcycle while

00:04:55.320 their base explodes behind you? Yeah, it's sick. Why aren't there more Pokemon games where you 1.00

00:04:58.580 blow up things with explosives and ride motorcycles? Yeah, man. The guy who's the CEO of a military

00:05:03.520 company should be saying something like that. Well, I thought it was cool when I was a kid too,

00:05:07.260 so maybe it was Destiny. Dude, would you ever name one of your products like a Jigglypuff?

00:05:10.940 No, I'm pretty careful now about naming my products

00:05:13.400 in terms of a potential copyright infringement,

00:05:15.580 but it'd be a lot of fun.

00:05:17.300 Squirtle, guided missile.

00:05:19.260 Although, you know, maybe you'd get away with,

00:05:21.380 you know, a lot of the Pokemon

00:05:22.560 have different names in Japanese.

00:05:24.440 So actually, I got, like, I got,

00:05:26.020 someone stopped me in Japan,

00:05:27.340 and I forgot that Ditto's name

00:05:28.760 in the original games is Metamon.

00:05:31.680 And they liked my Metamon shirt.

00:05:34.340 I was like, what the hell is this guy talking about?

00:05:36.800 And I had to remind myself, oh, yeah, yeah.

00:05:39.560 so look we first started geeking out when we first met we were watching the super bowl i was minding 0.93

00:05:44.040 my fucking business as i do and this guy comes up to me he's like hey do you have a second i was 0.72

00:05:48.000 like yeah sure i guess and he starts telling me about this guy who invented this new version of 0.99

00:05:52.340 the game boy called the chromatic and the same guy also invented the oculus riff when he was like 16

00:05:57.080 in his garage and then he sold that to facebook for two billion dollars and now he's the ceo of

00:06:01.320 a military company called andrel uh and i was like dude who who who is this this phenom who

00:06:06.480 you describe it what he goes his name is paul murlucky i'm like oh my god that name paul murlucky

00:06:10.700 that's what does he look like pulls up a picture he's wearing a shirt like that and got hair like

00:06:15.020 that i said i need to fucking meet this guy i need to meet this guy and then we met we started

00:06:19.540 geeking out and uh here we are i am here to compete in the first ever mod retro uh console 0.93

00:06:27.020 here at the classic world tetris championships because you guys somehow let me in the tournament

00:06:30.180 and i told you guys i was good at tetris well you're up against some stiff competition today

00:06:34.160 i don't know if you've been watching some of the other people warming up it's pretty crazy i've

00:06:36.800 been watching warming up on on on mod retro though no warming up just warming up on on all

00:06:40.900 every other version of tetris i mean you know like you know we've got this new version of tetris that

00:06:44.860 we're developing for the chromatic so you know it's uh it's a game boy color compatible game

00:06:49.960 it's a new physical release of tetris i think it's the best way to play handheld tetris that

00:06:54.760 has ever existed so like we've you know most of the other handheld tetrises have kind of played

00:06:59.240 second fiddle to the more hyper competitive versions that are played at tournaments like

00:07:02.540 this this is like a tournament grade very competitive very very uh very very cool version

00:07:08.880 of tetris to be competing on dude it has taken days of my life i i have it here in my frock it

00:07:14.340 what do you think you're you you're you're an external party dude i'm obsessed he plays

00:07:19.120 i'm obsessed with the product i'll be honest with you i know you just launched this i don't i don't

00:07:25.900 really care how it does i love it i love it i play it so much i i played uh i pokemon gold and

00:07:31.680 pokemon crystal i level my pokemon's all the way up beat the elite four multiple times beat the red

00:07:35.220 character bro like i'm i'm in i'm invested literally um i mean i kind of feel the same

00:07:39.520 way like i i want it to do well i want people to buy it but at the end of the day i'm just being

00:07:43.360 honest i'm doing this for me dude i mean this you know it's the ultimate way to play game boy games

00:07:47.640 right like we spent a ton of money to make this custom display that's just like the original

00:07:51.160 game boy color same resolution same size same pixel structure uh you know and it's so cool

00:07:56.240 that i'm able to i'm able to take this thing out take my copy of pokemon crystal that i played when

00:08:01.060 i was 12 years old which has like 400 hours on it i slap into chromatic and i'm able to play it's

00:08:06.700 just it's it's so cool it's the type of thing where when you're a kid you dream of being able

00:08:10.900 to do something like this and i'm lucky enough and blessed enough to have enough money that i

00:08:14.780 can do crazy larks like this yeah palmer it's it's side quest it's the dopest it is a little

00:08:19.540 bit of a side quest yeah yeah it's the dopest hit of nostalgia ever it's it's what i've been

00:08:26.540 describing it as because people obviously ask me right i'm playing this like old school it looks

00:08:30.300 like an old school console yeah like is that a game boy i go well it's like it's like a game boy

00:08:35.060 with modern tech yep but the fact you're asking that is the right thing right like people look at

00:08:39.180 it and it you know from from from a hundred feet away it is like someone sitting there playing

00:08:44.620 chromatic looks like somebody who's sitting there playing a game boy yeah and like a kid who is

00:08:49.260 sitting playing chromatic i tell you i look at it and it brings me back because it makes me feel

00:08:53.960 like i'm sitting back in 1999 like you could look at that kid and like you know the look and it's

00:08:59.920 the smallest so it's like you're like oh shit that's me you know what it's it's it's gone from 0.82

00:09:05.200 uh my parents yelling at me to stop playing because it's time to go to bed to now my fiance 0.99

00:09:09.320 is kind of fed up with it she has been telling me that blue scooty and alex t are gonna beat my ass 0.95

00:09:15.780 today at the time she told you that that's rough man she has she has what about fractal fractals 0.93

00:09:21.600 i don't think is competing in the chromatic uh version i know i think she's just trying to

00:09:25.200 motivate you i bet she knows she knows what motivates you oh she has oh she says oh man 0.99

00:09:29.440 you're going to get your ass kicked she's just trying to she's just trying to get to get under 0.98

00:09:32.300 your skin so that you you push yourself through victory yeah or she's just or she doesn't want 1.00

00:09:36.280 to be embarrassed by you she's gonna be humiliated that's the thing right they're gonna beat my ass 0.99

00:09:39.660 today and if i walk out the championship wait oh oh do we have the there's a championship belt 0.99

00:09:45.620 as well is that it is is that it right there no no so this is my this is my united states

00:09:50.380 championship can you mind switching these out this is what i'm competing for there we go what

00:09:54.240 are you going to do with that one it's just going to be taken away uh no i'll hold that so what do 0.99

00:09:57.800 think you're you think you're gonna get it you think you're gonna get your ass kicked dude i 0.99

00:10:00.440 don't know i don't i don't know you've talked about it a few times but i don't know how many 0.98

00:10:03.700 of your viewers know like you were big into tetris i was top 100 in the world at one point

00:10:08.740 which isn't insanely impressive but like at 13 years old i was like this is kind of cool but

00:10:12.460 also top 100 in the world at a time where tetris really was a phenom in a way that it you know it

00:10:19.280 isn't it isn't quite as in the public consciousness these days i mean for example hillary clinton has

00:10:24.180 gone on the record saying she was addicted to tetris oh cool yeah have you seen this picture

00:10:27.660 of hillary there's a picture of hillary clinton on air force one playing tetris oh my god oh my

00:10:32.420 god yeah like that so for you to be in the top 100 at a time where it was that iconic i don't know

00:10:39.140 that might put you up there yeah maybe i mean hillary clinton a chromatic unless that's against

00:10:43.620 your political views do you think you could beat hillary at tetris come on bro come on i'm here

00:10:47.740 competing with the best in the world is what i do this this this can this big stage we try to make

00:10:52.280 that happen that's that that that that's are you sure you want that that's the match i want to see

00:10:56.620 If he loses, do you think she would make him disappear?

00:11:01.360 You know, I probably shouldn't say.

00:11:05.320 I'm going to drag you into deep water, brother.

00:11:07.620 Hey, I wanted to ask you, he was talking about his first impressions of you. 0.99

00:11:10.940 Wow, I saw this guy's picture, and I was like, holy shit, I got to meet this guy.

00:11:14.440 What about your anticipation and first impressions of meeting Logan Paul

00:11:17.780 to talk to him about Chromatic or Pokemon or whatever?

00:11:20.900 I mean, it was interesting, right?

00:11:22.220 So the first time that we talked was over Zoom.

00:11:24.180 and you know i kind of got the flip side right so you know coming to me and saying hey you know

00:11:28.820 you should really talk to logan like look and i'm like and i'm like he walks out of a meeting with

00:11:33.980 the cia and they're like dude you gotta talk to logan paul bro like i'm like i'm like i don't know

00:11:39.900 like why they're like no you don't get it this guy he used to be one of the top 100 tetris players

00:11:45.260 he really is into game boy he really is into retro gaming like it's not it's not what he's

00:11:50.440 out there doing every day but you guys both kind of have this thing that you're doing every day for

00:11:54.960 me it's building lethal autonomous weapon systems which we'll get to for you it's taken oh it's

00:12:01.300 taken over this huge martial area yeah but but behind it both of you actually are of a kindred

00:12:07.120 spirit you both really care about this stuff and so i was actually really surprised i mean the first

00:12:10.960 thing we like we started talking about was what what would it look like to make a new game for

00:12:14.720 these old platforms and how would you take all the best learnings of modern game development

00:12:18.120 practices and modern game design and apply them to these old systems and how would you make

00:12:22.080 something that's not just the typical triple a shovelware crap live service microtransaction

00:12:28.260 dlc laden thing that gets pushed out these days it turns out like we're both 100 on the same page

00:12:32.360 so that's actually pretty that's actually pretty unique so i yeah i guess i was a i was kind of

00:12:37.660 surprised but i think probably logan would be surprised too that like you know the guy who's

00:12:41.340 running this military company would would be that i'm not surprised by it because from from what it

00:12:47.480 seems a lot of people that are actually in secretive government organizations wear sandals

00:12:52.440 hey you know you see a lot of it you know at least in movies is do you find that to be true

00:12:56.620 not that you've ever met with a secretive government organization or anything you know

00:13:00.080 look i i've i've met i've met with plenty and uh and you know they're the guys who maybe they don't

00:13:04.340 have to wear suits every day but i think it is interesting that there's so many people out there

00:13:07.780 like i don't want to say that you and i aren't unique but i think there's actually a lot of

00:13:11.480 people who beneath the surface they actually love this stuff it's just you don't know it right like

00:13:16.160 there's all these ceos and all these athletes out there like they're not out there talking about

00:13:20.280 how much they love game boy games and how they love retro stuff but i think it's actually a ton

00:13:26.200 of people it is is there a stigma i mean like there i like maybe there was i feel like it's

00:13:31.900 kind of i feel like it's kind of breaking right like there was this period where you know everything's

00:13:35.640 cyclical in fashion right and everything comes back around again and it feels like a lot of

00:13:39.900 people really who are into retro games before it had come back around again in the mainstream it's

00:13:44.740 like oh that loser is wearing last year's clothing that was kind of the vibe but then once it all

00:13:49.880 comes back around again all of a sudden it's the same stuff but it's cool again and so i'd say like

00:13:55.120 at least right now uh right now people aren't making fun of it but like you know what it's

00:13:59.480 probably gonna go out of style and me and logan are the guys we're gonna stick with it even once

00:14:03.540 it's out of fashion till the next cycle yeah it's still until the next cycle yeah yeah exactly 0.64

00:14:07.260 what other big titles on it because i'm a i'm a dude i i was grew up with fucking nintendo game

00:14:13.080 boy I'm 86 years old so like we're talking about like Excitebike we're talking about Mario we're

00:14:17.860 talking about Zelda like to level set for people who don't really know a ton about it it's like

00:14:21.080 what the chromatic is is this kind of ultimate way to play Game Boy games it's this piece of

00:14:26.420 tribute hardware that I've designed that is a perfect tribute to everything that made the

00:14:32.420 Nintendo Game Boy special that made it the most important handheld console of all time it's

00:14:35.880 compatible with Game Boy and Game Boy Color games but we've kind of built something it's what I

00:14:40.040 think nintendo would have built if money was no object so the screen is not uh screen cover is

00:14:45.220 not glass it's made of sapphire crystal uh the display is a custom display that we made to

00:14:50.220 perfectly emulate the game boy color the body's made in this magnesium alloy aluminum magnesium

00:14:54.980 aluminum alloy shell it's extremely durable very very lightweight uh 24 hours of battery life which

00:15:01.560 is what yeah and that's with the backlight on like we're not talking about you know old school

00:15:05.360 game boy where yeah exactly where it's hard to use without the perfect light like with the

00:15:08.940 background we're talking 24 hours of battery life and uh so then what we're doing is you can play

00:15:15.200 either your old game boy games on it or you can go and you can buy old game boy games that are

00:15:19.620 going around like here but you know we're at the so socal gaming expo and the exhibit hall is full

00:15:23.760 of all these guys selling old game boy games but then we're also re-releasing some old game boy

00:15:29.700 games so games that you know you haven't been released in literally 20 plus years we're re-releasing

00:15:34.580 them we're doing remasters of some of those games where we're kind of updating the feature set

00:15:38.920 adding new stages adding new you know new new features we're also doing some totally new games

00:15:44.940 like tetris is the kind of the first of many but we're doing some totally new games still there

00:15:49.600 you know they're game boy compatible titles on a physical cartridge and the really crazy thing

00:15:54.160 which we haven't been able to talk about is not just uh you know not these aren't just like new

00:15:58.640 titles like there's a there's a game called dragon him it's one of our launch titles and it's an indie

00:16:03.000 game that a guy's been working on for years at this point i'm so excited to get it out there on

00:16:07.260 our website to get it into gamestop get into people's hands because it's like it's like it's

00:16:11.420 like this tiny team that's built this new rpg that's extremely cool but then the last category

00:16:17.680 games is we're actually working with some studios to do first-time releases of gameboy games that

00:16:24.240 were never even announced meaning they started work on them they were developing them and then

00:16:29.600 for whatever reason some of them the studio went bankrupt some of them they decided to pivot the

00:16:33.920 game to game boy advance and so what we're doing is working with them to pick up all of that old

00:16:38.960 code and actually do a release of the unannounced game boy games that they were developing back in

00:16:44.640 the 90s in the early 2000s and that's that's that's gonna really blow people's mind i think

00:16:49.300 that's where that can get really exciting hey thanks for c geek for sponsoring this video you

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00:18:54.660 Lisa, we should tell them about our new show

00:18:58.160 Oh my god, Lexi

00:18:59.640 We have a new podcast

00:19:00.960 It's called Don't Lie to Me

00:19:02.480 I'm Lexi Iwanu

00:19:03.720 We're two best friends, 22 years apart

00:19:06.320 But so close at heart

00:19:07.920 And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one

00:19:10.380 Which means we have wildly different references

00:19:12.560 Occasionally different opinions

00:19:13.980 And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all

00:19:16.700 I'm not gonna get anywhere

00:19:18.800 You're fighting

00:19:19.460 That is wild

00:19:20.980 I learned that about you today

00:19:22.780 now in my 30s being the founder of new shoes good taste is my business and i've always got

00:19:30.160 something to say if men were just honest about this there would be so much more peace in the

00:19:34.860 world we're gonna talk about dating relationships beauty getting older and a little wiser we're

00:19:40.600 best friends but we don't always agree because you told us how accommodating you are obviously

00:19:45.680 i would do what i think i could do to to fight the fight but there's only so much fight i can fight

00:19:50.280 Don't lie to me.

00:19:51.540 Don't lie to me.

00:19:52.900 Don't lie to me.

00:19:54.140 Don't lie to me.

00:19:55.360 Don't lie to me.

00:19:56.380 Don't lie to me. 1.00

00:19:57.200 Liar. 0.94

00:19:57.980 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0.98

00:20:02.840 I don't really care.

00:20:04.900 Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman.

00:20:06.860 Angela Jaritana.

00:20:07.780 Jeremy Culhane.

00:20:08.480 Patrick McDonald.

00:20:09.440 And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast.

00:20:13.240 The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft.

00:20:18.800 Join us for a panel of wellness influencers.

00:20:21.880 What I try to do is faux journal.

00:20:25.020 I don't know.

00:20:25.400 Have you guys heard of faux journaling?

00:20:26.700 Yeah, it's reading.

00:20:27.600 It's called reading.

00:20:28.240 So we don't like to use that word anymore.

00:20:31.220 Okay.

00:20:31.480 A panel of New Yorker cartoonists.

00:20:33.440 Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class yet?

00:20:36.300 No!

00:20:37.040 I've been dying to.

00:20:39.140 I'm so sorry.

00:20:39.960 I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald at the Wonderland

00:20:45.780 Bookstore on 14th.

00:20:46.860 That's crazy.

00:20:47.280 I went to the Wonderland Bookstore.

00:20:48.520 yesterday and i heard norah jones do a reading of zero dark 30 no way you have to come to the

00:20:53.700 last bookstore though kim cattrall is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday a panel of eurovision

00:21:01.040 participants and we do a little halloween sometimes does the pope dress up he he winks

00:21:06.640 on halloween it's right up next to the microphone you can i hear you can almost hear the eyelashes

00:21:11.740 hit each other you've never seen italy so quiet as when the pope gets up to wink on halloween

00:21:17.520 Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists

00:21:20.200 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:21:22.780 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:21:24.680 You know what else is interesting is a lot of these games,

00:21:26.860 the ones that were canceled,

00:21:28.260 they tend to be ones that are from the tail end

00:21:30.540 of that development period, right?

00:21:32.240 These weren't the first Game Boy games.

00:21:33.780 They were among the last Game Boy games.

00:21:35.700 They just didn't quite make it over the finish line

00:21:37.480 because like a lot, like one of the companies,

00:21:39.960 one of the companies, they were working on this game.

00:21:41.800 They had developed it a lot.

00:21:43.000 And then they decided, you know what?

00:21:44.100 The Game Boy Advance is about to come out.

00:21:45.360 We're just going to take the money we would have used,

00:21:46.940 releasing this and marketing this because you know game development it's not just the game

00:21:50.260 development that costs money it's it's marketing it and getting it out there they said you know

00:21:53.540 what we're gonna take this money we're gonna put it into this other game boy advanced title and so

00:21:56.640 the game just got shelved buried until now but what's interesting is the games that came out at

00:22:01.020 the end of the development life cycle are actually in my opinion some of the best games especially

00:22:05.980 graphically because they had had time to figure out how to maximize the hardware right it's kind

00:22:11.020 of like how on nintendo 64 super mario 64 great game but it's actually much less graphically

00:22:16.020 advanced than games that came later in the lifespan because people had call it a decade

00:22:20.020 to figure out how all the all the tricks to make games run at higher frame rates have better

00:22:24.360 textures have more complexity and so a lot of these games that were canceled i think they're

00:22:28.760 actually a step a step above and a cut beyond all of the games people are used to on game board

00:22:36.020 which is pretty cool i'm so excited paul we got we got to back this truck up no hold on i'm gonna

00:22:40.040 the truck's still going forward because i have one thing to say i did convince these guys to

00:22:44.640 build me a custom logan paul edition of the chromatic caleb it's right there it's it's it's

00:22:49.980 matte black they were saving it for for a creator i said please give me the matte black chromatic

00:22:54.200 um yeah that's the one i could have grabbed it but i just was feeling so lazy you're not moving

00:22:59.800 much these days that's why a system like this is perfect for me no yeah so so uh anyways i'm super

00:23:05.660 excited about this palmer we do have to back up uh because there's a lot there's a lot that is

00:23:10.980 Palmer Lucky. I think we should start maybe even just chronologically. Well, you're 15 years old

00:23:16.100 and you come up with an idea for a virtual reality headset in your garage. So I started

00:23:20.480 with the idea and it was because I was really interested in virtual reality as a concept

00:23:25.480 because I was a gamer, right? And I had been modding retro consoles, modding modern consoles,

00:23:31.120 and I'd gotten into PC gaming. And then one day I'm sitting there with my six monitor setup,

00:23:36.100 right so i'm on my pc i've got my six monitors all set up up you know and my display spanned

00:23:41.060 across all of them for flight simulators and stuff and i said okay what's the next step like

00:23:46.280 what am i what am i doing next and i already had this dual graphics card six monitors set up i was

00:23:51.280 like i don't know like i honestly don't know what the next step is it's not eight monitors not 12

00:23:56.300 monitors right like like and it became clear to me it crystallized in that moment it's 15 years old

00:24:01.580 and I thought to myself, sitting at my computer,

00:24:04.120 the next step is not interesting.

00:24:07.340 I should be thinking, what's the final step in gaming?

00:24:10.720 Right, where's this all,

00:24:11.460 not what am I doing this summer with my PC game?

00:24:13.700 You're like, where's this all going in the long run?

00:24:15.780 It was obvious, it's immediately obvious, right?

00:24:18.400 It's virtual reality.

00:24:19.620 It's the ability to feel like you're literally

00:24:21.180 inside of the video game, to feel like it is reality.

00:24:24.820 And whatever technology makes that possible,

00:24:26.780 that's clearly where this is all going someday.

00:24:29.120 There's disagreement as to when,

00:24:30.560 but I don't think anyone would believe like, oh no, gaming is like never going to get there.

00:24:35.160 Nobody wants, it's obviously what's going to happen. That's why it's such a science fiction

00:24:38.400 staple. So I started working on VR when I was 15 years old. I built my first prototype headset

00:24:44.500 myself when I was 16 years old. So it took me a while to learn about VR, to try a bunch of old

00:24:50.320 VR tech. I read a whole bunch of old patents from the eighties and nineties. I was reading all of

00:24:54.960 these academic studies about VR. I was reading all these military research papers about virtual

00:25:00.340 reality so i was like i was just like downloading into my brain everything i could about what worked

00:25:05.340 what didn't and i i my first few prototypes like the prototype i made when i was 16 i'll be honest

00:25:10.160 it was it was really terrible i mean um 16 years old when you were 16 no well i was gonna say it's

00:25:15.740 crazy how at 15 you're like experimenting with this virtual reality tech like i was home when

00:25:19.700 mike was 15 he was experimenting with opiates no not that young no not that young took me a couple

00:25:24.500 years i was selling half ounces of schwag and i remember right when i turned 16 i crashed my

00:25:29.500 grandmother's jetta into the back of a civic and the civic actually went over the top of the car

00:25:33.980 and i had to run because i had the weed on me and right around that time in his life he was designing

00:25:38.500 virtual reality headsets well i was doing something else too so here's here's here's the

00:25:43.620 crazy here's the crazy overlap here's the crazy overlap uh also when i was 15 was when i started

00:25:48.640 mod retro so so i launched mod retro as this forum for people who are modding game boys nintendo 64

00:25:56.340 so we are combining modern technology with retro consoles so i started that when i was 15 and it

00:26:02.740 actually ended up going pretty well like we're getting millions of page views a month of people's

00:26:06.100 projects building portable nintendo 64s custom painted game boys backlit game boys it you know

00:26:12.280 people building mp3 players and eight track cassettes it was a lot of what year is this

00:26:16.600 this would have been like 2000 like 2008 so 2008 so this is post napster oh yeah yeah definitely

00:26:24.800 post it was like 2008 or 2009 i need to go check the date what what is the state of because for

00:26:30.220 people that don't maybe you could lay it out for people don't understand the the timeline that is

00:26:34.300 virtual reality what is the state of vr in 2008 and how far had it come because because the first

00:26:39.100 vr was introduced in what 1956 i believe it was well it's some semblance it depends on it depends

00:26:44.360 on who you ask you know there's there were there was uh you know sort of damocles which is this

00:26:48.960 kind of you know widely credited as the first vr rig um there there was the sensorama which was

00:26:54.600 yeah you might be thinking of the sensorama which is a static thing it wasn't head worn but you put

00:26:59.000 your head into it got it um and and uh i mean the reality is vr had been a failure there had never

00:27:05.880 been a successful vr company in history they'd all gone bankrupt they had all you know done quite

00:27:10.300 poorly because i think honestly the tech had never was never quite ready and also people had not done

00:27:15.340 it quite the right way it was a combination of the two the the headsets were never ready but also

00:27:20.340 computers were not good enough to push high resolution photorealistic graphics at a high

00:27:25.340 enough framework or even crude graphics honestly so like yeah i start i start mod retro i'm working

00:27:30.580 on all this game console stuff i use a lot of that self-taught electronics engineering knowledge to

00:27:35.080 then build my first vr headset when i'm 16 it's terrible from reading papers reading papers also

00:27:40.620 also buying a lot of old hardware so back then old vr headsets were dirt cheap because nobody was

00:27:45.100 collecting them i was probably the only guy in the whole world collecting them so i'm going on ebay

00:27:48.840 and i'm looking at all of this stuff being sold by like you know like medical facilities shutting

00:27:54.680 down that have some headset that was used as part of a research trial in the late 90s and like i'm

00:27:59.480 buying this stuff that they bought for literally hundreds of thousands of dollars for less than

00:28:04.000 a hundred dollars i mean like i so i i bought it i ended up building this like collection of old

00:28:08.920 hardware and i'm taking apart i'm learning from it realizing what worked what didn't and so when

00:28:13.800 i built my first headset i called it pr1 prototype one and that way it was kind of like i'm putting

00:28:18.120 of sticking around like this is the first thing i'm building it was a wide field of view virtual

00:28:21.380 reality headset uh 3d compatible but it also weighed like six or seven pounds it was this

00:28:26.880 huge helmet that went on your head it was so uncomfortable so ungainly but it was it was kind

00:28:31.920 of the first thing that proved oh shit this experience like the visual side is clearly

00:28:37.620 way better than gaming on a monitor and so i kept working on it building new prototypes

00:28:41.980 and then i did that for years and then when i was 18 years old so two almost three years later

00:28:48.220 i i had been showing prototypes to my friends for years and they all thought i was kind of

00:28:52.300 off my rocker right like i wish i could say my friends are supportive but they're not yeah so 0.52

00:28:55.860 like like like shout out to chris for for being an asshole yeah and be like i don't where's chris 0.83

00:29:01.000 now you know so it's we'll come back to chris we'll come back to chris and chris we'll come 0.95

00:29:05.960 back to chris but like i remember showing chris and his honest feedback was like yeah i don't

00:29:09.720 know like it's cool man but i don't really get it like cool that you're into it i guess wait what

00:29:14.400 time what were your what were your friend types back then was he was he he's a hardcore turbo

00:29:18.680 just like me like retro game he was building portable nintendo 64s portable nes okay i'll

00:29:25.580 tell you why every prototype that i had shown him up to this one that i made when i was 18

00:29:30.220 was honestly not very inspiring unless you could had a really good imagination you had a mad door

00:29:35.820 was going and then when i showed it to people and it was the first prototype that i'd ever shown

00:29:39.840 them where they said oh shit i finally get it that's when i started oculus so i started my

00:29:45.440 company after i showed it to people and said they finally instead of saying i don't get it they said 0.81

00:29:49.420 holy shit i finally get that this this is going somewhere and so i started oculus uh and i ended

00:29:55.940 up doing a kickstarter for that and we were really successful we hit our goal in like two hours uh

00:30:01.620 and we ended up you know making this incredible headset working with a bunch of game developers

00:30:05.660 getting it all out there and of course in the long run ended up selling that to facebook for

00:30:08.800 a few billion dollars that's where i got my money and woo that's insane paul right now back back

00:30:13.840 back to chris um so i i i said you know i i gotta call up my buddy chris and point out you know like

00:30:20.300 he didn't he didn't get it when i showed him the first few prototypes because they weren't very

00:30:23.540 good but to his credit he was the first employee at oculus no way so i called him up and i said

00:30:30.300 hey chris what are you doing this summer he said oh i'm gonna like work at this i'm gonna work at

00:30:34.820 pizza place and like get ready to go to college. And I said, no, you're not. You're going to come

00:30:39.340 work with me and we're going to build this company, Oculus, to commercialize my VR headset now that

00:30:43.620 the tech's finally good. And that was, I think, a Friday. And I called him and he said, okay,

00:30:49.880 I'll do it. And then he told his mom that he's not going to college. Instead, he's joining this

00:30:54.840 online buddy of his Palmer's company. And she just like didn't take it seriously. So that's Friday.

00:30:59.780 monday i roll up in my minivan he gets into my minivan with all the shit from his room

00:31:05.180 and that's it he moved out with me and we moved into an old near condemned motel and that's where

00:31:11.460 we built the first prototype that we used for the oculus kickstarter how much he made how much he

00:31:15.380 make on the exit he made plenty isn't it crazy because when you start up a multi-billion dollar

00:31:20.740 brand like that dude well i mean you gotta make sure that you're taking care of your friends

00:31:24.540 so look so chris was there at the very beginning you know and then he actually when i started and

00:31:29.180 on my weapons company he was also the first employee no way you gotta do it when facebook

00:31:34.380 when facebook fired me chris was the first person to he posted internally at facebook and he said 1.00

00:31:40.060 this is fucked up i can't believe you guys did this you guys are a bunch of lying assholes the 0.99

00:31:44.800 way you treated palmer is just is obscene and i'm out of here i'm the first employee of oculus 1.00

00:31:49.840 and i guess i'm i guess i i i i i guess i i guess i'm out of here you know what i like about chris

00:31:55.600 is that he trusted in his buddy

00:31:57.480 who's a visionary and he followed

00:31:59.680 him to the depths of hell

00:32:01.260 and heaven. Whatever it ended up being.

00:32:03.660 Loyalty is important. I mean, Chris is loyal to me and I'm

00:32:05.640 loyal to Chris.

00:32:06.720 You offered him the opportunity, right?

00:32:09.340 But the difference between Chris and some people

00:32:11.740 that I know is that Chris

00:32:13.260 took that opportunity. Well, and the difference, you remember,

00:32:15.500 I didn't leave Oculus. I was fired.

00:32:18.060 So Facebook, like Chris...

00:32:19.220 You didn't move the whole operation to like

00:32:21.560 an island in the middle of the Atlantic, right?

00:32:22.620 No, no, no. You guys stayed put in your generalized area.

00:32:25.180 So we started in Orange County, but actually we moved up to the Bay Area.

00:32:28.740 So we're at Facebook HQ.

00:32:29.500 A little bit of a shorter trip.

00:32:31.000 But to your point about loyalty, he was sticking with me when I was down.

00:32:36.900 And when people were kicking me and when everyone was saying,

00:32:39.560 you should have seen what people were saying.

00:32:41.580 Nobody was saying, oh, Palmer's going to do this incredible next thing. 0.99

00:32:44.240 Like Palmer's fucking out. 0.98

00:32:46.640 He's a one-hit wonder. 1.00

00:32:48.440 Well, he's a loser. 1.00

00:32:49.300 He's a nobody. 1.00

00:32:51.360 Oh, God, he deserved.

00:32:52.380 you've been you've been through this right okay so imagine this imagine you're at your lowest

00:32:58.000 where everyone thinks you're damaged goods and they need to distance themselves and imagine to

00:33:01.640 not just stick with somebody but to go up publicly and say you guys are treating this guy unfairly

00:33:07.620 and you're horrible for it there's not a lot of friends like that you got to stick with those

00:33:12.540 people you do have to stick with those people i hope today or one day that i'm going to be in a

00:33:16.460 position where i can hook up my friends and people have supported me from day one with jobs

00:33:20.120 100%. Well, look, everybody at Oculus who was around in those early days is now financially

00:33:25.460 independent. And that's what people will often say, like, Palmer, why did you, you know, why

00:33:29.320 did you, would you undo it, right? Like, you got fired, you wish you could go back. And the real

00:33:34.020 answer is, you know, on the one hand, I think, you know, how it turned out for me, not so great,

00:33:39.380 maybe. But for all of those people, I would not go back and undo that for them, right? That was,

00:33:43.160 it was a life-changing thing to behave, to have financial independence, the ability to have

00:33:46.640 enough money to not have to work so you can work on whatever you want or even if that something is

00:33:51.740 nothing that's that's huge that sold to facebook when you were 20 21 yeah 21 so so well we were in

00:33:59.560 the right place at the right time with the right tech right like our tech was so far ahead of what

00:34:03.840 anyone had been doing previously we had hundreds of game developers that were signed on building

00:34:07.820 games we had a really powerful sdk we were integrated with unity and unreal and all the

00:34:12.040 again at game engines and and we had a pipeline a tech pipeline to building not just pc powered

00:34:16.860 headsets but we had this vision to building a standalone headset that was this full self-contained

00:34:21.780 system we were partnered with samsung really really tightly were you still with oculus when

00:34:25.820 that got done yeah no oh yeah so so the last thing that i worked on when i got fired was

00:34:30.460 what became oculus quest so at the time we were calling it uh it was the internal code name was

00:34:34.420 santa cruz quest is better and i think well i think is we'd shown it off so santa cruz basically

00:34:39.340 is quest like it's the standalone headset doesn't plug into a pc all self-contained and so we had

00:34:44.040 shown off state of cruise while i was still there uh but it ended up being the the public name for

00:34:49.520 it became oculus quest and so yeah a lot luckily i did get that thing out there which i'm proud of

00:34:54.440 because that was that was really kind of my vision from the beginning of the company it wasn't just

00:34:57.600 an accessory it was building this all can self-contained system you just buy something

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00:37:17.600 Lisa, we should tell them about our new show.

00:37:20.920 Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast.

00:37:23.660 It's called Don't Lie to Me.

00:37:24.820 I'm Lexi Iwano.

00:37:26.220 We're two best friends, 22 years apart,

00:37:28.700 but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different

00:37:34.440 references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

00:37:39.800 I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today.

00:37:46.300 Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, Good Taste is my business. And I've always got

00:37:52.540 something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the

00:37:57.240 world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a

00:38:01.900 little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating

00:38:07.040 you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so

00:38:11.600 much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie

00:38:18.280 to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

00:38:24.160 get your podcast i don't really care i'm lacy mosley author actor stand-up comedian creator

00:38:30.740 and host of scam goddess podcast the true crime comedy podcast all about robbery fraud and those

00:38:36.800 who practice it each week i bring on incredible guests like conan o'brien iowa debris lamorne

00:38:42.320 morris and nicole buyer oh i scammed them what i could talk to you for an hour you're a generational

00:38:47.900 yapper like me that's why i had to make yapping a job and the scams run the gamut i'm talking

00:38:53.640 about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against

00:39:00.740 scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And

00:39:06.820 now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect

00:39:12.200 you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy and you like

00:39:17.240 learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeart

00:39:21.900 radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast can i ask you one quick question about

00:39:29.960 your your original uh inspiration to create that you yeah i know you said you were sitting in front

00:39:34.940 of those six monitors and you were you were doing like flight simulator everybody wants to to be

00:39:40.860 inside a single-engine cessna and land that plane and really feel like you're there but is there any

00:39:48.380 part of you who also designed this for the other thing that people want to see inside a vr headset

00:39:56.140 boobs look man of course

00:40:01.640 the funniest part about this is you're imagining that like this is like a taboo topic for me but

00:40:13.320 i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you yes i was actually the keynote speaker at the adult virtual reality

00:40:20.220 society conference in tokyo there's a whole conference yeah avrs avrs yeah so are you

00:40:27.100 familiar with that pool it's it's it's okay so there's this there's this pool in japan and it's

00:40:33.620 this it's this apartment that has a big pool in it with these angled glass windows over it

00:40:39.260 and it's actually famous in japan because this apartment is not actually one that people rent

00:40:45.360 out to live in it's rented out for adult video shoots and they've been renting out this apartment

00:40:50.560 for like 30 years for adult video shoots so there's actually thousands of pornos that have

00:40:56.880 been shot at this one particular pool in this apartment and in japan they they call it i forget

00:41:02.920 what the exact name but it translates to that pool like it's like you know the one

00:41:06.800 like it shows up in anime it shows up in manga like people are referencing that pool anyway so

00:41:13.880 the avrs uh summit was at that apartment and like i've always been surprised actually that some of

00:41:22.420 these tech companies are so unwilling to touch adult content in vr because it is something that

00:41:30.340 is clearly part of the human experience and there's people out there doing like there's a reason

00:41:34.640 that Twitter, now X, allows for Risqué.

00:41:39.560 Yeah, and they allowed Risqué content before,

00:41:42.140 but now they're actually allowing

00:41:43.620 to go even more in that direction.

00:41:44.920 And it's always been so interesting to me.

00:41:46.620 Not that, I get why everybody's not doing it, right?

00:41:49.180 I get why Nintendo's not into Risqué games,

00:41:52.640 but why is there no option?

00:41:54.860 Why is it kind of this universal blacklisting?

00:41:58.120 And the only place to kind of play adult content

00:42:00.360 these days is on PC,

00:42:01.660 not because PC is the best way to play.

00:42:04.780 It's because it's the only place

00:42:05.880 you're allowed to play that kind of console.

00:42:07.720 It's always been a very interesting dynamic.

00:42:09.080 I would have thought somebody would jump on it.

00:42:10.680 It's not me personally.

00:42:11.800 Like I'm religious

00:42:13.060 and I wouldn't want to be running that business myself

00:42:16.120 for a variety of reasons.

00:42:16.720 But as a technical person,

00:42:18.180 I can't help but recognize

00:42:19.840 that there seems like a huge market opportunity

00:42:21.640 for somebody here.

00:42:22.440 The adult industry as a whole

00:42:24.140 is larger than the MLB, NBA, and NFL combined.

00:42:27.640 You're familiar with the numbers.

00:42:29.600 I'm familiar with the industry.

00:42:31.660 i'm out now uh 200 billion dollar probably annual industry massive massive massive industry right

00:42:38.920 what is the state currently of adult facing vr titles like where those exist on pc and where

00:42:45.360 and and how close are we to like an actual experience like i mean like where there's

00:42:49.540 i've seen some of it i've seen some of the tech like online yeah so most most of most of what

00:42:53.740 you've seen has been pretty limited because the only universal format to distribute to people on

00:42:58.060 has been in the form of 360 degree video

00:43:00.220 or 180 degree video, right?

00:43:01.880 So you see some of the adult websites

00:43:04.620 that are out there putting out this type of content.

00:43:07.200 And you know, like I can shoot that content pretty easily

00:43:09.360 and put it on all the various adult content distributors.

00:43:12.760 But if you're talking about like real interactive experiences

00:43:14.940 and that are properly rendered

00:43:16.700 and properly interactive,

00:43:18.760 there's really no hub for any of that stuff.

00:43:21.280 And so you have these individual developers

00:43:23.360 trying to make stuff and then get it out there.

00:43:25.840 But like one of them,

00:43:27.000 it's a if there's a japanese developer called illusion um and illusion shut down because

00:43:31.980 nobody was willing to distribute their games they had basically the censored versions and you could

00:43:36.780 put those on steam and then you could download unofficial patches and but the problem is i mean

00:43:42.500 you know why people don't even pirate stuff that much anymore it's because the friction's just so

00:43:46.140 high right people are willing people are willing to spend a little money if it just works and the

00:43:51.200 problem was that because of the barriers and censorship there's just too much friction for

00:43:56.340 the for the industry it's a payment it's a payment processing issue as well payment process yep so

00:44:00.620 you're familiar with yeah so uh for people who don't know like like payment processors often

00:44:04.440 categorically say that adult content is high risk now in every other category high risk means

00:44:10.520 lots of chargebacks or you know your business has caused a lot of fraud but even if you have

00:44:16.020 a business that has no chargebacks no fraud automatically you're just high risk and that's

00:44:22.180 a yeah it makes it really difficult for people and so the only payment processor out there

00:44:25.580 they take you know a pound of flesh and then another pound of flesh just to process the

00:44:30.600 payment and and then even those ones could drop you at any moment it's a it's a it's really

00:44:35.000 tough it's like illusion is gone now and they've they've been around for a really long time they

00:44:38.680 made a game called vr cano joe so like roughly a vr girlfriend um and uh they but they they

00:44:45.780 they weren't able they weren't able to survive in the end but and that was kind of one of the

00:44:49.320 ones that was like on the cutting edge of interactive adult content in vr when you i

00:44:54.600 have to ask this question when you sold uh oculus to facebook at 21 years old did you become a

00:44:59.820 billionaire officially you know not officially it took a while but i i did i didn't i didn't make

00:45:05.440 enough money from that so we told we sold the company for 2.3 billion dollars um and of course

00:45:09.920 you know we had i had hired a lot of employees and i'd given them a lot of equity in the business

00:45:13.840 and also we'd raise money from investors um but uh but i'm but i'm doing pretty well now yeah well

00:45:18.640 you know better or worse than roaring kitty oh well i mean he had a rough day today oh did he

00:45:24.520 i didn't see that he was down he lost 235 million dollars today that's such a shame well it's i don't

00:45:29.540 think it's on paper not if it's all it's all calls and shorts right or no calls sorry i'm not

00:45:34.220 participating in all the gamestop stuff yeah i've been following it very very close i mean i'm

00:45:39.300 actually a huge fan of gamestop yeah so actually actually like not to get be corporate about this

00:45:42.920 but GameStop is the exclusive retail partner

00:45:46.640 for the Mod Retro Chromatic.

00:45:48.040 So like we're gonna be launching it this Christmas

00:45:50.420 like when we're shipping

00:45:51.380 and you'll be able to go to a GameStop

00:45:53.120 and you'll be able to go at midnight

00:45:54.380 and actually buy a Chromatic, which is awesome.

00:45:56.420 GameStop's been an awesome partner to work with

00:45:58.360 but even going back, I've been a big fan

00:46:00.520 of GameStop for two reasons.

00:46:02.080 Like one, that's my childhood, right?

00:46:04.180 Like standing in line to buy Halo 2.

00:46:06.560 Call of Duty.

00:46:07.400 Exactly, and like that's something that's lost.

00:46:09.960 What was the last thing that was like that?

00:46:11.820 Like, now you just, you, like, go and you pre-download a game on your PS4 or even your PC.

00:46:18.840 It's like if Blockbuster was still around.

00:46:20.940 Yeah.

00:46:21.520 But even more than Blockbuster.

00:46:23.020 I like Blockbuster, too, by the way.

00:46:25.700 But GameStop felt like it was, like, a real community thing.

00:46:28.580 I see.

00:46:28.980 That's what I was going to say.

00:46:30.200 So here we are.

00:46:30.720 We're, like, at SoCal Gaming Extra.

00:46:31.680 So I love conventions of all kinds.

00:46:33.340 I love gaming conventions.

00:46:34.120 I love anime conventions.

00:46:35.580 I bought this shirt in the anime convention.

00:46:37.020 I'm always in the artist alley supporting independent artists.

00:46:39.300 Like, I love it.

00:46:40.060 every game stop especially these small town game stops was like a little mini convention center

00:46:45.620 for gamers every major game release i remember super smash brothers coming out it's like a mini

00:46:50.660 super smash brothers convention in the parking lot in front of that game stop we're all there

00:46:54.020 we're tailgating our cars we're playing super smash brothers we're getting ready to play the

00:46:58.280 new super smash brothers like some goodie somebody somehow got his hands on a copy of the game a day

00:47:02.920 early so we're sitting there waiting to buy super smash brothers playing the new super smash brothers

00:47:06.960 before it's official. The vibes are insane. It's insane. And the best part is like, it happens over

00:47:10.760 and over. Like a couple times, three times a year, you have this major release where you get to go

00:47:14.640 and you see people that you only see a few times a year and you're all chugging Mountain Dew

00:47:18.440 and throwing out. Like, where does that happen now? It's just, it's just, it's just totally

00:47:22.840 gone. So I love GameStop for that reason. And the other reason is because I love seeing all of

00:47:28.000 these Wall Street financial manipulators getting what was coming to them. I'm a pretty boring

00:47:33.300 investor i'm i'm mostly a total you know like like total market uh index fund kind of guy like

00:47:38.980 if the u.s does well i'm gonna do well i don't i don't make a lot of individual bets but like

00:47:44.100 it's so crazy all these wall all these wall street guys who are really trying to crush

00:47:49.200 gamestop am i artificially putting negative financial pressure on them like like what

00:47:54.140 i know they're just trying to make money but i took it personally like so many other people

00:47:57.940 and i'm like what the heck guys like games do you want game stop to go away like i i i i i want

00:48:04.880 game i want that i want those vibes to come back from my childhood and i i think i think it i think

00:48:09.160 it can happen roaring kitty is i think he's bringing i think he's i think he's bringing it

00:48:12.820 back like he's so cool for being like this rally and yeah like this focal point for everyone else

00:48:17.500 who feels the way i do yeah to follow follow yeah he's a gangster but you're also talking about this

00:48:22.680 like like disappearance of uh of like community and connectivity and like it's not just game stop

00:48:28.720 right like as as a world and as a society we continue to become more and more disconnected

00:48:33.240 from each other we we experience less and less face face-to-face conversation do you think that

00:48:38.200 products like oculus or uh even autonomous weapon systems help with those those conversations maybe

00:48:45.280 not i mean i'll work backwards i actually yeah i think i think autonomous weapon systems do help

00:48:49.740 um and i wanted to get into this no no i'll i like i'll totally get into it i think it does

00:48:55.820 because where people are able to come together the most is when you don't have the kind of

00:49:01.280 catastrophic events that you see like what's happening in ukraine with russia or like i have

00:49:06.060 a lot of friends in taiwan and they're terrified of what china's going to do they're terrified

00:49:10.300 they're gonna have a bunch of amphibious landing craft rolling into their ports and stomping

00:49:14.980 through their streets and blowing up their industry and taking over their country and like

00:49:19.680 it's a credible threat it really is and the way i see it is the only way to stop that kind of

00:49:25.020 large-scale violence is to make it clear that the attempt is not going to work like put another way

00:49:30.340 if taiwan has weapons that convince china that an invasion will not be successful china won't even

00:49:37.960 launch the invasion like i guess my perspective has always been the right time to get involved

00:49:41.900 in war is not after the war starts. It's before the invasion happens. Like, like I have a lot

00:49:46.860 of respect for people who, you know, like nine 11 happens and they go down to their local recruiter's

00:49:51.320 office. That's great. But I think it's also important for people to go and work on the

00:49:58.120 things that will prevent preventative measures. Yeah. Preventative. It's, I mean, it's just like

00:50:01.560 going to the doctor, right? You know, it's way, it's way an ounce of prevention is worth a pound

00:50:04.880 of cure. Prevention is protection. Exactly. And I think that I, that that's how I look at building

00:50:09.720 high technology for war fighters.

00:50:13.120 That's how I look at building these things

00:50:14.000 for the US, for NATO, for our allies.

00:50:16.460 He needs to introduce this properly.

00:50:18.420 This is the most interesting about you.

00:50:20.140 And if you don't have deterrence,

00:50:21.460 that's actually when the world balkanizes

00:50:23.560 in a really, really terrifying way.

00:50:25.540 That's where I can't have Chinese friends anymore

00:50:28.500 because we're on opposite sides

00:50:30.040 of a massive geopolitical conflict.

00:50:31.580 Look, I made the Oculus Rift in China, right?

00:50:34.820 Millions of headsets.

00:50:36.140 I, 10 plus years ago, was very hopeful

00:50:38.540 that China really was going to continue to westernize and democratize,

00:50:41.540 which, by the way, was the thesis of the United States at the time.

00:50:45.420 That's when we let China into the World Trade Organization.

00:50:47.360 That was the bet, was that China was going to become more like us,

00:50:50.040 that they weren't going to go in the direction they have,

00:50:52.700 which is becoming a more authoritarian, more of a dictatorship,

00:50:58.020 infringing on human rights.

00:50:59.080 Cyber enemy of the United States.

00:51:01.060 And the ultimate version is like, can weapons bring people closer together?

00:51:05.020 I think, yeah, because you stop fights from happening.

00:51:07.120 i mean so earlier like great answer by the way i think when when you have teeth and when you have

00:51:12.360 claws when everyone knows that everyone else has teeth and claws that's actually when society is

00:51:17.140 most polite do when everyone knows you do we know that for sure is that a thesis i you know i let

00:51:24.200 let's break it down how many home invasions are in texas what's that how many home invasions

00:51:28.520 happen on a daily basis this is a great example like like on a microcosm yeah this isn't a new

00:51:32.620 idea right who was it there was there was this english writer who said something about the

00:51:37.320 civility that can be observed on the american continent can be ascribed primarily to the fact

00:51:42.040 that every man has an arm at his side and is willing to defend his honor in a duel and like

00:51:47.140 his point was not that everyone's killing each other in duels it was the fact that they have

00:51:51.960 this culture where that is allowed and that everyone is armed it actually makes people more

00:51:55.540 polite because you don't even start a fist fight if you think it's going to end in a gunfight i

00:52:00.960 want people to look at the united states and the west in general and i wanted to say you know what

00:52:05.460 america has a more powerful military than china america is a more powerful military than russia

00:52:10.600 and they're willing to use it and able to use it we shouldn't even we shouldn't even throw fists

00:52:15.380 well don't you think well don't you think we're already there i mean like who's who's actually

00:52:19.820 willing to step up to the united states of america as it pertains to military might

00:52:23.280 proxy from a proxy standpoint of course yeah but but like but like listen take away the oceans

00:52:29.780 even nobody's fucking with us dude we have oh i i totally look i i totally i totally agree i guess

00:52:35.240 i i have this perspective of i i think it is important to stick to our promises that we have 0.56

00:52:40.920 made of partners right so like for sure like you're right russia's not going to invade the

00:52:44.620 united states right like china's not going to invade the united states but china has real

00:52:49.080 ambitions of invading japan they want to take japan they want to take the philippines they

00:52:54.240 even want to take vietnam like they're they're they're so pissed about how things went with

00:52:58.820 vietnam for them before and so there's there's huge number of allies and partners around the

00:53:03.380 world where they will get rolled a hundred percent if we are not backing them and so you're right

00:53:08.460 it's it's not it's it's really it i would say it is all about the proxy fights do you do proxy

00:53:12.880 fights is primarily what it's that's how we're fighting i mean vietnam was i mean contra everything

00:53:17.160 we've done afghanistan has all been proxy right but and taiwan's the same way do you think that

00:53:21.580 starts to like impede on from a political standpoint because i because maybe we'll talk

00:53:25.820 about a little bit about your your leaning in either direction but like are you are you comfortable

00:53:31.600 with the kind of bleeding that we have financially uh of just straight cash to other countries right

00:53:38.160 now so this is another reason that i started my i'm sorry not mod retro this is why this is not

00:53:42.440 the game boys it was the autonomous weapon system my bad so this is one of the reasons i actually

00:53:46.280 started andrew right right right it's it's the financial bleeding you're talking about right

00:53:50.120 because look at how we beat the soviet union it wasn't actually just with military power it's

00:53:54.900 actually primarily financially. We forced them to spend all their money trying to keep up with

00:54:00.140 us militarily, and we bankrupted them. They just economically collapsed. I'm concerned that we're

00:54:05.420 on a path to the United States because our weapons are so expensive, so overpriced. We're spending

00:54:10.900 millions of dollars per missile. We have aircraft carriers that cost many billions of dollars per

00:54:16.580 aircraft carrier. And a lot of these weapon systems are things that can be destroyed by

00:54:21.000 things that cost a thousand times less, right? So what happens to America if we literally can't

00:54:27.420 afford using every dollar we have to produce more than a few weeks worth of wartime expenditure

00:54:33.220 against China? If that happens, and if they know that that would happen, then we're a sitting duck.

00:54:38.520 If China knows that we're going to run out of weapons after two weeks of warfare, which is what

00:54:43.000 a lot of the war games predict, and if they know that we don't have the ability to restockpile that

00:54:49.400 to rebuild our arsenal, then they know that we're nothing. We're just a two-week distraction at best

00:54:55.380 in their aims of conquest. And so I started Andrel because I wanted to build systems that

00:55:00.580 were actually affordable enough that you could build them at a scale that would be relevant to

00:55:04.600 modern warfare. I have a very different business model, by the way, for Andrel. Most defense

00:55:09.400 contractors are paid on what's called a cost-plus basis. They get paid for their time and their

00:55:12.540 materials and then a fixed percentage of profit, which actually means they make more money when

00:55:15.920 they go over budget and over schedule that's why you that's why you hear about all these programs

00:55:19.820 going on for years and years that's how you end up with the f-35 program being a trillion dollars

00:55:24.220 a trillion dollars and what andrel does is uses our own money to build a product and then we sell

00:55:32.340 it to the government it's a radically new business model but it gets to that point of like are we

00:55:36.880 going to get bled dry under our current model where we do cost plus like absolutely but andrel

00:55:42.460 is really about making sure that America doesn't bankrupt ourselves trying to protect our allies

00:55:47.220 around the world. It's an extremely noble pursuit if you're someone who loves your country. I take

00:55:51.540 it you do love your country. I absolutely do. And I'd say also, I wouldn't recommend that people

00:55:56.580 necessarily get into defense if you are not highly motivated by this patriotism side. It is not an

00:56:04.060 easy way to make money. It is not an easy way to grow a business. You will work 10 times harder to

00:56:09.180 make every dollar that you make in defense than you do to make it elsewhere and i look i've worked

00:56:13.120 in gaming gaming is hard to make money into way easier to make money in gaming than in defense

00:56:18.340 you're crazy you're talking to our one viewer who is thinking about getting into defense i i need to

00:56:23.720 ask you about the morality part of this please do because because obviously like in my opinion 0.96

00:56:29.060 someone has to do what you're doing that's right i believe someone has to do it and maybe that's

00:56:33.960 your answer but surely when you undergo andrel industries a military technology company that

00:56:40.960 sells lethal weapons to the government part of you has to be okay knowing that your products

00:56:47.060 are gonna kill people how do you it's true how what's what is the what's that conversation like

00:56:53.820 internally you know i think that there was a a norway actually did an armed forces recruiting

00:57:01.460 commercial that i think put it better than almost anyone can i should send you a link this is

00:57:05.020 incredible and they do this commercial and it says you know what why and has all this soaring music

00:57:09.480 and it says like you need to join uh you know you need to join the norwegian military you know and

00:57:15.160 why do you need to join why do we need you to fly fighter jets why do we need you to man all these

00:57:18.960 tanks why do we need you to become a precision marksman that can take out a you know take out a

00:57:23.260 take out a guy and a you know at 10 kilometers uh you know what what are we hoping is going to

00:57:28.200 happen nothing nothing that's what we're hoping for yeah and that's why you need to that's why

00:57:33.820 you need to join that that's the that's the point there and so on the one hand yeah you're building

00:57:37.560 things you have to be aware yeah this is designed specifically to either destroy ships kill people

00:57:43.280 blow up tanks whatever it is but the flip side of it is i think the people who are doing it are the

00:57:47.620 ones who have the most invested in making sure that doesn't happen right like the u.s is not

00:57:53.560 engage in any large scale conflicts. If you're building large scale weapons for large scale

00:57:58.580 conflicts, your whole bet is that you spook the other guy so that they never need to get used.

00:58:02.500 I know everyone at my company, that's how they feel. Nobody's there saying like, oh man, I'm so

00:58:07.400 stoked that my thing gets to kill people. It's like, I'm so stoked that I get to build the thing

00:58:12.060 that is so good that the other guy is so terrified of it that he's not willing to step over that

00:58:17.900 line. And people come from time to time, they're like, oh, well, what's the, you know, what's the

00:58:23.540 morality here? Do we really want to build tools that are so powerful? And I say, look, do you want

00:58:28.740 NATO to have squirt guns or rifles? At some point, you have to say, you know what? We're not going to

00:58:34.640 keep these dictators from expanding their power unless you meet them with credible threat of

00:58:41.100 violence. It's the only language they understand. What does that say about humanity? Well, I think

00:58:46.240 it says human nature, you know, war never changes. Human nature is somewhat fixed. I mean, there was

00:58:51.680 this popular idea. Have you heard of the idea of the end of history? It was this idea that was

00:58:55.860 popular almost a century ago, but it had come back into pre-World War II. There were people who were

00:59:01.900 saying, ah, well, post-World War I, economic entanglement on the European continent means

00:59:07.340 that war in Europe is impossible. It's the end of history. You see, the lines will never be

00:59:12.640 redrawn. The countries, their borders are fixed. War is an impossibility forever now. And then I

00:59:19.440 think people after world war ii realized that was bunk and they realized that this human nature

00:59:22.660 question you bring up was very you know very real people don't change their nature but i'd say

00:59:27.840 pre-ukraine war there were a lot of people who told me and they told my company you're wasting

00:59:33.060 your time no way they would say they wouldn't say they were like evil they were like no no you're

00:59:38.400 wasting your time because uh in the modern world countries are so economically intermeshed through

00:59:44.120 international trade you know you have germany buying billions of dollars in russian oil and

00:59:48.140 gas you have uh america buying many billions of dollars in chinese electronics you have us shipping

00:59:53.020 like in a world like that war is just impossible it's just it's not even worth thinking about you

00:59:57.520 know and people would say like they'd say uh war is outdated u.s military isn't needed when the

01:00:02.640 united nations can just write a really sternly worded letter and of course ukraine showed that

01:00:08.140 that was all bunk and that we don't live at the end of history that there is still a lot to come

01:00:13.420 And until we live at the end of history, we're going to need weapons.

01:00:16.860 And I prefer that the good ones are in the hands of the good guys.

01:00:19.380 And there's people who disagree with me.

01:00:21.380 I'll tell you my very big picture, and this is going to sound mean, but here's what it really is.

01:00:25.000 The people who think that we don't need weapons and that we don't need a better military than Russia and China,

01:00:32.100 they are only able to have that belief, that crazy, irrational belief that doesn't make any sense in the real world

01:00:38.620 because there's so many people around them who understand what the real world looks like.

01:00:42.420 It's a luxury belief.

01:00:43.800 If everyone thought like they did, 0.65

01:00:45.960 we'd be screwed overnight.

01:00:47.980 They're only able to have that opinion

01:00:49.680 because Russia knows that most Americans

01:00:51.980 don't agree with them.

01:00:52.860 They're only able to have that opinion

01:00:54.260 because they know that most NATO allies

01:00:56.280 don't agree with that.

01:00:57.860 And so, I mean, God forbid that those views

01:01:00.420 ever become pervasive,

01:01:01.620 because I'll tell you,

01:01:02.280 the second they do is the second that

01:01:04.620 China invades Taiwan, the Philippines, Japan,

01:01:10.580 Vietnam, the list goes on and on.

01:01:12.160 Like the second that they believe that NATO's broad belief, the second that they believe the average NATO member is a person who thinks, oh, I don't think it's right to build strong weapons, that's when they move on Europe.

01:01:25.900 But you're seeing these beliefs start to expand exponentially over the past few years, and to touch back quickly on your own political beliefs or not to, you're seeing this softening American-slash-Western-European worldview of Russia by way of the political arena here, which to me has been interesting-slash-a-crisis.

01:01:50.080 Russia is not our friend.

01:01:51.620 Vladimir Putin is not a friend of ours.

01:01:52.980 He's not.

01:01:53.440 And you've seen this very odd softening of that viewpoint and reversal viewpoint on United Nations and NATO over the past like 10 years.

01:02:04.580 What do you attribute that to and how dangerous is that?

01:02:07.220 Well, it's an interesting mix, right?

01:02:09.280 Because a lot of what, here's what it really is.

01:02:12.780 There's smart reasons to criticize NATO and then there's dumb reasons.

01:02:17.300 So, like there's a lot of people who they look at what's going on and they say, well, I'll tell you like, here's a smart view.

01:02:23.440 All right. Let's get really political. Donald Trump was right on NATO. Okay. When everyone

01:02:28.700 was shitting on Trump for having outdated views of NATO, like, do you remember what he did? He 0.87

01:02:33.340 went to Europe and he said, way before the war in Ukraine, he said, Germany, you are totally

01:02:40.480 dependent on Russia. You are not spending enough on your military. You are not meeting your 2%.

01:02:46.020 NATO is supposed to send 10, 2% of their GDP on military production to help NATO. He said,

01:02:52.420 you're not meeting your commitment. You're not meeting the 2%. You're giving billions of dollars,

01:02:56.880 literally billions of dollars a month to Russia for their oil and gas. You're completely dependent

01:03:01.780 on them. He said to other EU nations, he said, you're all delinquent. You're all saying that

01:03:06.300 NATO is important and you give Russia billions of dollars and then you don't even build enough

01:03:11.820 weapons to deter them. And that was a hundred. And what did they do? They laughed. Literally,

01:03:15.900 there's video of the German chancellor and the French ambassador laughing at each other at the

01:03:21.040 idea that germany was he says it's true you're completely dependent on russia and you have done

01:03:26.300 that does that make any sense so what happened he was pushing to say you guys need to contribute

01:03:31.660 two percent you need to stop giving money to russia and uh two things happened first of all

01:03:37.620 people were saying oh my god i can't believe that trump is is criticizing nato i can't believe that

01:03:42.800 he's saying all this stuff but he was criticizing it in trying to get them to make it stronger right

01:03:47.820 His whole point was, you guys are treating it like a joke, and if you don't start treating

01:03:52.880 it seriously, I'm pulling out of NATO.

01:03:55.360 And the goal was not that Trump wanted to pull out of NATO.

01:03:57.960 The goal was get these guys to actually take their destiny seriously.

01:04:01.500 Because we're paying our side.

01:04:02.400 We're paying our side.

01:04:03.040 And here's the thing.

01:04:03.680 If they are delinquent, and they give Russia shitloads of money that Russia then uses to

01:04:08.120 fund a European invasion, who's going to be left with the bill?

01:04:11.260 It's us.

01:04:11.800 We're the ones that are going to roll over there and save them.

01:04:13.820 So he says, you guys need to be helping too.

01:04:15.860 So, of course, what happens?

01:04:17.820 Russia invades Ukraine using the money that Germany was giving them.

01:04:21.240 And then even after the war, Germany was proven to be totally dependent on Russia

01:04:26.080 because Russia was saying, or Germany was saying,

01:04:28.040 we're trying to stop paying for the oil and gas to Russia,

01:04:31.100 but we need it or people are literally going to freeze to death this winter.

01:04:35.980 Is that Nord pipe?

01:04:37.160 Well, there was that, but I'm saying even before the Nord Stream explosion,

01:04:40.040 I'm saying early in the war, there were people calling on Germany

01:04:42.680 to stop sending billions to Russia and to cancel all these oil and gas buys.

01:04:46.720 and germany kept paying russia billions of dollars after the war started even as they're

01:04:54.020 sending weapons to ukraine they're sending money to russia that russia is using to fight ukraine

01:04:58.780 because they're totally dependent on so but i mean i mean getting getting back to this like

01:05:03.360 there is a so i feel like that's the smart opinion like the smart anti-nato opinion was

01:05:08.000 nato only makes sense if we're all in this together criticize them to criticism to improve 0.98

01:05:12.400 but then i think you've seen like that's a smart version yeah then there's the dumb people 0.99

01:05:16.420 dumb people they just don't understand any of that and they say yeah NATO's dumb that doesn't 0.97

01:05:23.040 seem fair we need to get out of NATO yeah and I'd say that's kind of the softening you've seen 0.99

01:05:27.760 there's quite a few people who have kind of fallen into that bucket well because the protection of

01:05:32.660 Europe is the protection of the United States I agree and look like I'm a Republican I'm a member

01:05:36.580 of the Republican Party America first and it it really irks me when I see other Republicans who

01:05:42.360 think that it is aligned with our values to just abandon europe they say i mean if you really want

01:05:49.440 to i look i think we should absolutely be willing to drop out of nato if nato is not what it's

01:05:57.160 supposed to be right like the thing that's important is our mutual defense not the construct

01:06:02.200 of nato but if we're gonna have nato then we should all be putting enough money into to make

01:06:06.600 it actually mean something and i i don't like people who then extend that to mean therefore

01:06:10.960 we actually should get rid of NATO.

01:06:12.820 It doesn't make any sense to me.

01:06:14.540 Can we talk about some weapons systems?

01:06:16.420 Let's do it.

01:06:16.980 I want to talk about some of your, right?

01:06:19.060 Talk about some of these offerings.

01:06:21.400 You know, we've seen anti-drone technology,

01:06:25.880 the Roadrunner specifically, correct?

01:06:27.540 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:27.960 Anti-drone technology.

01:06:29.000 Talk about some of the stuff that you guys are working on

01:06:30.860 and where people could buy it.

01:06:34.820 Well, if you're an Air Force procurement official,

01:06:37.420 then you already know who to talk to.

01:06:40.960 Yeah, we don't sell to the general public, but we make a variety of different systems.

01:06:45.420 Our core product is something we call Lattice.

01:06:47.420 It's this AI engine that powers everything that we make.

01:06:50.000 Think of it like the AI brain that powers our submarines, our aircraft, our missiles,

01:06:55.100 our sensors, our fighter jets, all of that.

01:06:57.480 It's powered by Lattice.

01:06:58.180 So stick with that for one second.

01:07:00.080 AI to improve target acquisition, guidance.

01:07:03.100 To do everything.

01:07:04.220 I mean, like to fly the aircraft or drive the submarine, but also to take in information

01:07:08.800 from sensors understand what's out in the world and then filter out all the things that you don't

01:07:12.860 care about for example i don't need my fighter jet to be reasoning about where every bush is right

01:07:17.460 so if it's scanning the ground i want to be filtering all that stuff ignore but i do want

01:07:20.820 to know where all the surface air missile launchers are and i want to be comparing data not just from

01:07:25.140 my sensors as one robot i want to be taking data from all my robots and sharing them kind of like

01:07:30.140 in one borg like hive mind like an internet of things yeah i want every single thing to see in

01:07:36.460 its mind's eye everything that everyone else is seeing so like if you and me were lattice nodes

01:07:41.280 and i'm outside looking at something you would know in your brain there's something over there

01:07:46.540 and you could come and help me get it or you could go for reinforcements or you could try to jam that

01:07:51.500 system from where you are are you tony stark so i'm not okay i'm not tony stark for a couple big

01:07:56.940 reasons first of all tony got out of building weapons for the military which was a big mistake

01:08:01.240 and he fought it this was one of my big ideological beasts with tony he decided to become a vigilante

01:08:05.980 rather than working with the united states military and then people point say but palmer

01:08:10.540 the military stole his suit xyz yeah after tony basically said i'm a walking nuke and i'm not 0.98

01:08:16.360 going to give you access to a go fuck yourself that was it's it's not the approach i would have 0.98

01:08:20.480 taken so now he got later you know like like you know he basically got got got helped by the colonel 0.99

01:08:26.120 into you know building war machine and handing it over to the united states and allowing them to be

01:08:30.420 part of it. But I'd say that's the big difference with me. Tony Stark believes that use of violence

01:08:38.380 should belong to the individual vigilante. I build tools that I believe should be in the hands of

01:08:45.680 the U.S. military. I believe that the U.S. military should have a monopoly on violence. I don't think

01:08:50.840 that we should have random superheroes. Look, I love the idea of being Tony Stark. I want to get

01:08:56.540 my iron man suit and go kill some terrorists but i also recognize that if you're going to be in the 0.99

01:09:01.320 business of killing people the people doing the killing have to be directly accountable to the 0.98

01:09:07.580 electorate and to voters and the only way to do that is to have it happen through the military so

01:09:11.280 that's the biggest difference between me and tony is tony wants to do it himself and he doesn't

01:09:15.760 trust anyone to use his technology more than him yeah he only trusts himself basically yep yep i

01:09:21.980 build tools that i am trusting the u.s military to use appropriately and correctly have you built

01:09:27.400 an iron man suit i've actually built a lot of weirdo exoskeleton stuff and armor stuff over

01:09:32.680 the years unfortunately we're probably never going to have a major military program based on

01:09:37.280 powered exosuits like that you see it from time to time jetpacks and so jetpacks for sure i

01:09:43.920 actually totally believe to board boats yeah so that that's i think you're talking about gravity

01:09:47.360 industries yeah so i'm very very familiar with with the gravity guys what they're doing is really

01:09:51.500 cool. Um, and you know, there might be some stuff that we're doing together. So they're very cool

01:09:56.300 guys. Jet packs are very cool. And actually, by the way, I've built some of my own small flying

01:10:00.460 machines. I was building something called jet boots before gravity back when I was living in

01:10:04.840 the Bay area. Um, I never turned into a company, but I did build a couple of prototypes just

01:10:08.920 myself. It was a small flying machine that basically it was, it was like a set of boots

01:10:12.660 with built in micro turbines that allowed you to, to fly around, um, and then land on the ground,

01:10:16.940 to just step out of it anyway it was a really cool system but uh the problem with exosuits is

01:10:22.820 that if you have technology that's good enough to augment a person and make them stronger and

01:10:27.360 faster and bulletproof and it's good enough to overcome all of that weight why involve the person

01:10:32.160 you've got it exactly yeah you just have the robot go in yeah person's usually and in fact

01:10:36.980 the person's not only useless he's it's actually he actually makes the problem harder right because

01:10:41.420 now i have to not only be strong and fast i have to protect this body of meat inside like with a

01:10:47.500 robot i can like with a robot i can put all my most critical machinery into a tiny core

01:10:52.440 and wrap that in armor people have vulnerabilities everywhere like if i were building a robot that

01:10:57.960 needed to do what a person does the arms can be like these spindly structures and you want to

01:11:02.660 have redundancy like let's say you get shot in the arm you want to have a bunch of redundant

01:11:05.820 stress so i can get shot in the arm like 10 times my arm and it just spins or just blows holes in

01:11:11.300 it literally imagine my arms it's literally like getting holes blown in it but it still works

01:11:14.560 because redundancy basically like a robot i could shield the critical components with a little bit

01:11:19.260 of armor and the rest can all be just redundant sounds like something you should be working on

01:11:23.400 no i think maybe but but like a person we have critical failures everywhere like you can shoot 0.92

01:11:28.700 me in the arm and i'll i'll die from that you shoot me in the shoulder and i'll die from that 0.97

01:11:32.880 you should be in the chest in the gut in the worst exactly do people like ninja fortnite 0.98

01:11:39.340 professional become more valuable when we have weapon systems specifically like avatars minus a 0.98

01:11:46.140 human flesh puppet that they can control like if i have a ninja type gamer controlling an android

01:11:53.240 human being-esque robot i feel like that's like a like a recipe for success violent success it

01:12:00.660 honestly depends on the genre okay so i would say twitch fps style sensory motor skills are not

01:12:07.900 actually what you need because that's actually handled by the ai so like the like the final

01:12:11.920 targeting imagine you have a drone like a like a roadrunner roadrunner is this twin turbojet

01:12:16.320 thrust vectored vertical takeoff micro fighter that we yeah it's like a tiny fighter jet that

01:12:21.260 can maneuver extremely fast extremely high g main goal is so the main goal is to take out

01:12:27.280 other drones and other aircraft that are threatening you so it's basically like a tiny

01:12:31.960 fighter that can go out and intercept other guys using lattice as a brain using lattice as a brain

01:12:36.140 and as a pilot and the thing is no offense to ninja ninja doesn't have what it takes

01:12:40.980 go pilot no look clip it he is gonna be pissed you said that look look the thing is roadrunner

01:12:47.580 when it's flying at a target it's flying at hundreds of miles an hour and you have a target

01:12:52.620 like an enemy aircraft is gonna be a tiny speck he's maneuvering and i'm gonna need to fly at him

01:12:58.220 and find him and track him and i might need to i might need to maneuver at over 10 g's to hit him

01:13:03.960 yeah a person can't no no he actually cannot do that and also like i don't know if you're really

01:13:08.380 like human perceptual system we think there's no latency like our perceptual system makes us

01:13:12.320 think that we're living in the moment you are about 250 milliseconds behind reality you're

01:13:16.720 like a quarter second behind your brain just doesn't perceive it for sure whenever anyone

01:13:20.420 tells me to live in the moment i'm gonna hit him with that you should like and like if it if an 0.98

01:13:24.820 explosion goes off you don't know about it until a quarter second later damn and so if i'm trying 0.98

01:13:29.780 to track something and then he does something unexpected i can't even begin to react till a 0.89

01:13:35.620 quarter second later so that that's the problem is people just can't compete with ai but what they

01:13:39.440 can do is they can manage what these systems are doing i'd say twitch fps wrong genre starcraft

01:13:45.880 that's more like it where you're thinking tactically you're thinking where do i need

01:13:50.260 my systems to be what do i want to do here what's my strategic objective where do i want to pre-position

01:13:55.200 my assets those types of gamers i actually do think are going to have and in fact honestly a

01:14:00.600 lot of people we work with in the military they are really hardcore gamers they're not like ninja

01:14:04.660 you've never heard about them they're never ending tournaments yeah but there are people in the air

01:14:08.980 force like on in the air force in the army in the marine corps the guys who are in charge for

01:14:13.380 example ground-based air defense they are basically playing the world's highest stakes video game and

01:14:19.620 they are very good yes they're very good so when you watch movies like pacific rim you're like 0.98

01:14:24.080 This is bullshit 0.93

01:14:26.480 They never stick a person in that giant thing 1.00

01:14:29.820 You just make it AI

01:14:30.720 Look, I love Pacific Rim

01:14:33.220 So you brought it up

01:14:34.160 Copyright infringement

01:14:37.760 Oh yeah, you're going to get flagged

01:14:39.080 Wait, can we stick with the Roadrunner for one second

01:14:43.680 So this is the way you do it

01:14:45.060 I love Pacific Rim

01:14:46.260 It's not going to happen

01:14:47.460 I have so many questions right now

01:14:52.280 Military applications

01:14:53.460 So I'm going to tell you something that I've said a couple times publicly,

01:14:57.140 but not often.

01:14:58.840 First time I've said it in years.

01:15:00.120 I am going to build a bipedal mech, a big one, before I die.

01:15:06.940 Do it right now.

01:15:08.360 This I swear. 1.00

01:15:09.320 Shut up, dude. 1.00

01:15:10.940 No way. 0.99

01:15:11.600 Not because I believe it's going to be particularly tactically relevant,

01:15:14.840 but because I think that it's a thing that just needs to exist.

01:15:17.520 It's such a staple of sci-fi.

01:15:19.040 Like, whether you're talking about Neon Genesis Evangelion or Gundam or Pacific Rim.

01:15:23.780 I mean, it just – or they had the freaking Power Rangers.

01:15:26.500 By the way, I have the original Morpher belts from Mighty Morphin Power.

01:15:30.140 No way.

01:15:30.580 Yeah, by keeping my office. 1.00

01:15:31.620 Oh, shit. 0.99

01:15:32.140 Remember what they say in the theme song? 1.00

01:15:35.380 It's Morphin time?

01:15:36.340 Well, yeah.

01:15:37.160 It's Morphin time.

01:15:38.080 Yeah.

01:15:38.460 But also, they know the fate of the world is lying in their hands, and they know to only use their weapons for defense. 1.00

01:15:44.860 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:15:45.440 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:15:46.200 They never use them offensively.

01:15:47.880 only only defensively to defend in in defense that's actually not true canonically they use

01:15:53.380 them in multiple preemptive offensive raids but the theme song claims that they don't anyway

01:15:58.340 the the thing about mechs is they don't make any sense as like an armored tank replacement yeah

01:16:03.800 but you could imagine something that's like a a light reconnaissance attack helicopter replacement

01:16:08.160 where if it gets hit you're totally screwed but it could go somewhere be close to the ground stay

01:16:12.980 below air radar detection range and it could basically uh loiter for a long time like you

01:16:18.540 could go to a hill and like stand there for a couple days watching what's going on or you know

01:16:24.360 yeah we were we were reading about the roadrunner by the way i saw the the viral twitter video that

01:16:28.600 went crazy oh yeah yeah about this twin turbo we got millions of views on that it's crazy it's we

01:16:33.520 didn't look i mean we're we're a weapons company we build stuff for the government so it's always

01:16:36.940 funny when something goes viral with like the normies and everyone's like oh my god look at

01:16:40.640 this incredible thing well that's what when neve was describing he's like yeah he built this thing

01:16:44.300 i was like i think i just saw that twitter video go go crazy yeah so so yeah when we saw that

01:16:48.920 think of loiter like we were like what well what if it hangs out like a no loiter exactly and what

01:16:52.760 you can do is you could say like with a lot of weapons like with a missile with a normal missile

01:16:56.660 with a normal missile you you would send it up against an aircraft when you think you need to

01:17:03.620 you let's say you have something coming at you you push a button the missile goes out and it

01:17:08.500 kills it it's direct response but what if i am not sure about the thing that's coming to me like

01:17:12.500 what if i don't know what it is for sure i have to make this call with a normal missile do i blow 0.67

01:17:16.820 that thing up what if it's not something threatening like what if it's just some old

01:17:21.260 man in a cessna who's lost and he's flying into my restricted airspace like i don't want to kill

01:17:24.920 that guy his name is frank and so that's why like that's why the military enjoys denny's so like

01:17:29.060 yeah exactly so like sometimes the military will send out fighter jets to go see if frank is flying

01:17:33.980 into your airspace again which by the way is dangerous and costs a ton of money it costs

01:17:38.460 a ton of money and a lot of places they don't have the time like frank might be so close that

01:17:42.880 you don't have time to scramble fighters you have to decide okay i'm either shooting him down or

01:17:47.040 that guy might be about to drop a bomb on that formation i have right over there i need to

01:17:51.560 decide right now with roadrunner i can send it out there and they can look at it it can fly with the

01:17:57.620 target it can loiter there for a while and it can send back video and i can say okay is that frank

01:18:02.840 or is that an iranian drone or a mig yeah is there anything is there anything and then

01:18:07.820 currently you can blow it up is there anything it cannot track currently or keep up with oh yeah

01:18:12.700 so there's a lot of stuff like right right now it can go after you a lot of the stuff you see

01:18:17.280 in the middle east like these higher speed high maneuver threat drones it'll kill those things

01:18:21.820 no problem all the stuff you're seeing in russia and ukraine yeah that's the type of thing it's

01:18:25.200 very good at uh like be like larger aircraft no problem helicopters no problem but like let's say

01:18:30.820 you've got a supersonic fighter jet i can't go fast enough to keep up with it not yet give me

01:18:34.840 an example so so a mig some some migs right you know mig is a whole line but like sure yeah some

01:18:39.620 of the newer migs like they go supersonic in particular i wouldn't even if i could track it

01:18:43.900 and actually i probably could pick up a track i could pick up a track but i wouldn't be able

01:18:48.380 to actually keep up with it till the next version of roadrunner oh so you're so you're getting there

01:18:53.480 look it's gonna be it's gonna be a while but my vision for roadrunner is not that it stops where

01:18:58.120 it is it's going to get better and better i want it to eventually be something that is like kind of

01:19:02.560 a dragon slayer it's this tiny thing that can kill much larger beasts that are much more powerful

01:19:08.340 you need to do to get it to to that level like like so bring it to like sr 71 speed so we need

01:19:13.880 a bunch of different things but like one of them is uh is more powerful engines with supersonic

01:19:19.320 exhaust so andrel's actually building our own jet engines for roadrunner there we go uh we it's the

01:19:24.880 Venom series uh we haven't we actually haven't shown it very much public but we're building a new

01:19:29.160 we're building a new line of engine technologies that make all of our stuff whether they're missiles

01:19:34.160 or drones much faster and much more powerful and we're doing it ourselves because nobody's building

01:19:39.020 small jet engines that are uh that are that are doing the right things basically all of the

01:19:44.820 military R&D has been for huge jet engines in things like the trillion dollar F-35 program

01:19:49.340 they have not been investing in very small engines that are more suitable for the low-cost

01:19:53.940 type of systems that we build are you at the helm of this operation like when these technologies

01:19:58.140 being used like are you are you in the headquarters wearing flip-flops and the diddle shirt saying

01:20:02.680 like yo like roadrunner one loiter around frank and make sure it's frank going to denny's roadrunner

01:20:08.040 two so like you know like probably like the relevant maybe the talk the tactical operations

01:20:14.280 center and uh usually not i'm i i have i have done that what's your clearance level can you

01:20:20.940 can you forget it you're not supposed to don't even don't even make believe i never asked that

01:20:25.000 but but look i i i look i i'm i'm i'm appropriate i'm appropriately cleared to engage in those types

01:20:31.460 of activities um and do you wear this outfit when you do that you know i usually i usually do um

01:20:38.440 i usually do um look i'm a civilian contractor right so i don't have to wear the uniform yeah

01:20:43.740 and i wouldn't i wouldn't want to wear it wear it anyway if anything i actually like i actually like

01:20:48.000 the i like the distinction like i know it sounds funny like oh palmer wearing like a hawaiian shirt

01:20:52.160 and you know like in in the talk or something but the thing is people like oh well why don't

01:20:56.220 you wear like you know like i don't know like a suit i'll be on a suit would be so bad but like

01:21:02.240 but also like i think it's good to have division between the guys who are actually doing the war

01:21:05.640 fighting i think it's oh no no i think it's awesome it's the reason i ask is like dude i

01:21:09.620 don't know if you realize this you're a character out of a movie you literally are a movie character

01:21:14.320 like i i i can't believe you're a real person so let's talk about that i okay because you you say

01:21:19.700 this and it's it's this thing that keeps running through my mind is like so like i believe in

01:21:24.420 free will right i believe that we have agency and i believe that we have the ability to make

01:21:28.920 decisions nah bro you're the main character but but but here's the thing it's how much free will

01:21:35.640 do i really have in becoming who i am because i look at who my idols were growing up in fiction

01:21:42.500 right and like one of them is seto kaiba from yugioh and i like were you yugioh guys at all

01:21:47.720 i was so seto kaiba you might remember he was he basically took over his you know he was an he was

01:21:52.920 an orphan he was adopted by this billionaire weapons defense weapons company ceo kaiba

01:21:58.920 corporation and he takes over and he takes over this weapons company and then uses the money

01:22:03.560 to start this ar vr card game company you know they had the vr pods and they had all you know

01:22:09.600 And the dual discs with the AR projection technology.

01:22:12.200 The Last White Dragon.

01:22:13.080 And so what's cool is, it's like, okay, he's one of my top guys growing up.

01:22:17.360 And it's like, I've done that in reverse.

01:22:18.380 I started a VR company, and now I'm building weapons.

01:22:21.560 It's like, when you look at stuff, it's like where I was obsessed with, like, the Power Rangers and superheroes and Yu-Gi-Oh!

01:22:26.100 It's like, did I really have any choice?

01:22:27.880 Or am I just like, like, at the point where I had to decide, what am I doing next?

01:22:31.320 I sometimes wonder, like, was I actually programmed as a kid by the media I watched such that I could not have possibly made a different choice?

01:22:38.860 Like, I think I chose to start Anderol, but what if I actually, like, what if 99 times out of 100, I would have said that?

01:22:46.200 And it doesn't matter what my circumstances around me were, whether, like, I think it was a good time to start that company.

01:22:51.480 I think it was important to save the U.S. money.

01:22:53.280 But what if none of that was true?

01:22:54.500 Like, would I have started a weapons company anyway?

01:22:56.500 Wait, what was the moment for you?

01:22:59.380 Like, quickly, what was like the…

01:23:01.940 He described it.

01:23:03.040 In front of the screens, you're talking about that pivot point.

01:23:04.800 Well, I think he's talking about Anderol. 1.00

01:23:05.900 I'm talking about Android, like how you switch from kind of a fun, you know, like VR system, like, yo, I'm ready to kill some motherfuckers. 0.99

01:23:12.660 So, look, even before Oculus, I actually had this brief exposure. 0.99

01:23:17.300 I worked at the ICT Mixed Reality Lab at the University of Southern California, which is an Army affiliate research center that does a lot of stuff combining, like, technology from Hollywood and gaming, basically, in ways that help the U.S. Army.

01:23:29.060 Oh, what the F.

01:23:29.980 And there was this project that I was on the periphery of it.

01:23:33.960 I was a lab technician in the mixed reality lab, but I got to do a little bit of work on it.

01:23:38.360 One of the things that the lab was doing was called BraveMind.

01:23:42.140 And it was this program to treat veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder using virtual reality exposure therapy, right?

01:23:48.240 So like helping these guys cope with their symptoms, become less medicated, using high-end virtual reality simulation technology.

01:23:55.260 Exposure response?

01:23:56.100 Yep, exactly.

01:23:56.480 So putting them back in the scenarios that they're most scared of.

01:23:59.220 Exactly.

01:23:59.740 Wow.

01:23:59.980 And it was really, really powerful to see technology doing that.

01:24:04.620 And that was my first exposure to how the military develops new technology.

01:24:09.360 Fast forward 10 years when I get fired by Facebook, and there were a few things that

01:24:14.860 made me want to start Andrel.

01:24:15.840 One, I remembered my time working on that kind of stuff.

01:24:19.860 I was like, man, tech can really make a difference for these guys.

01:24:22.340 It can keep them safer.

01:24:23.860 It can keep them alive.

01:24:25.360 And it can do things that would get a person killed that a robot should be doing.

01:24:29.840 So harm reduction.

01:24:30.900 Harm reduction.

01:24:31.700 And then I'd say there were three things that really made me want to do this.

01:24:34.200 One, I felt like the big tech companies were being completely, how would you put this?

01:24:40.920 Big tech had abdicated all responsibility for the American experiment.

01:24:44.440 If you go back seven years ago when I started Anderil, there were no major U.S. tech companies working with the military because they were all totally in the pocket of China.

01:24:53.360 They all believed that China was where they were going to be making money.

01:24:55.980 they believe that the chinese communist party was going to favor them and let them in so they

01:25:00.060 couldn't work with the military the u.s military or it would look like they're taking sides against

01:25:03.900 china dude i see now you you you could be considered polarizing oh yeah do you know that

01:25:11.520 i i look i'd rather be hated i'd rather be hated by some and loved by others than for everyone to

01:25:16.660 feel nothing indifference is the indifference is the the opposite of hate is not love it's

01:25:22.580 difference that's right that's right um um no because there's gonna be people who watch this 0.92

01:25:26.340 who are gonna be like this guy's a fucking american hero he's awesome and other people 0.96

01:25:31.080 would be like oh my gosh this guy's insane and he got that ditto shirt on hey you know i'm fine 0.99

01:25:35.280 with that and like and i hope that there's the people who think that i'm insane at the end of

01:25:39.060 the day they're gonna benefit from the fact that i'm taking people from these tech companies and

01:25:43.580 putting them into something that matters like do they want america's smartest people to be working

01:25:48.120 on ad optimization and augmented reality mustache emojis no no or should they be working on things

01:25:53.300 that keep our soldiers safe right and and then i i you know that was one of the things that made me

01:25:59.040 want to start andrel the other was that the u.s was spending all this money on the legacy defense

01:26:03.020 companies that i think were way too slow didn't have the right technology northrop like what you

01:26:09.320 know none of these guys are i didn't believe any of them were going to build the ai we needed i

01:26:13.860 didn't believe anything we're gonna build the sensor fusion that we needed or the high-end

01:26:17.020 you know networking or immersive display technologies like i knew they were way worse 0.93

01:26:20.960 it were vr than me that was for sure i kicked their butt on vr they tried for decades and i 0.87

01:26:25.160 just kicked their butt and then the last bit was normally when you have a distortion like this 0.98

01:26:29.920 where the big companies are doing a bad job and the people who should be competing refuse to 0.96

01:26:34.480 usually startups jump into that mix right you know that that's the best time to jump in when

01:26:38.260 you're when it when an industry has shitty players in it that's when you want to start a startup

01:26:41.840 that's why we started prime and that's and that's why i started andro you know i wanted to jump in

01:26:45.820 and fill that hole.

01:26:46.600 You wouldn't have been able to start Prime

01:26:48.760 and be so successful

01:26:49.520 if everyone in the industry

01:26:50.660 had been doing an incredibly great job

01:26:52.500 and filled every gap.

01:26:53.760 It would have been impossible.

01:26:54.460 There's a very clear gap.

01:26:55.680 We took it.

01:26:56.100 And that's what I saw with Andrel.

01:26:57.480 I saw a gap

01:26:58.200 and I wanted to do a company

01:26:59.600 that could fill that gap.

01:27:00.320 I have to ask you this last question

01:27:02.340 before we, A, go compete in this tournament.

01:27:04.920 Against each other.

01:27:05.800 No.

01:27:06.540 B, I just got a text.

01:27:08.260 We're going to have a couple of special guests

01:27:09.560 sit on this podcast

01:27:10.700 who I'm elated about.

01:27:13.820 Right now?

01:27:14.240 In less than five minutes they're coming on here. My question to you is

01:27:17.780 UAPs, Palmer Luckey. You see these videos. The Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. Yep. What goes

01:27:26.900 through your mind? What are these things? They're obviously real. They defy physics as it seems.

01:27:33.640 What do you think is happening? Well, look, I'm probably having conversations that are beyond

01:27:40.620 what an ordinary person would have, but at the same time, I'll tell you this, I'm just being

01:27:44.660 honest, I have not seen any of the disclosure that people want, right? What people want is

01:27:50.940 they want disclosure of what is out there. I'm engaged on the periphery. I'll tell you why. It's

01:27:58.000 not even a secret. So a lot of the most compelling evidence for various UAP incidents has been

01:28:03.320 limited to one sensor, meaning like something goes by and a radar sees it, or something goes by

01:28:08.440 and a thermal camera sees it.

01:28:13.140 The problem with that is it's possible to spoof certain sensors.

01:28:17.480 It's possible to even tamper with their feeds.

01:28:20.120 It's possible to make things that trick them into seeing things

01:28:22.380 that aren't actually there.

01:28:23.940 But here's the thing.

01:28:25.020 It's quite easy to trick one sensor.

01:28:27.860 It's very hard to trick multiple sensors of different types

01:28:32.340 that overlap with each other.

01:28:33.640 For example, if I see something with a radar

01:28:35.620 and with an image like an imaging sensor it's hard to make something that can trick both of them

01:28:41.300 into thinking that it's something moving really fast really high is at some temperature it's very

01:28:46.640 difficult to do that so what what is really important is this concept called multi-modal

01:28:52.220 sensor fusion you want different sensor modes to be fused together and come covering things at the

01:28:59.000 same time what we really need is we need more multi-modal tracks of these things meaning where

01:29:04.420 You have like radar, visible spectrum, IR.

01:29:07.940 You're absolutely right.

01:29:09.080 It makes total sense.

01:29:10.100 And those are going to be the most useful scans

01:29:12.060 because then you can be certain it's not tampered with,

01:29:14.900 it's not fake, it's not spoofed.

01:29:16.580 So the closest thing we can get right now,

01:29:18.420 I think to what you're describing is multimodal,

01:29:20.600 whatever you said after that thing.

01:29:22.080 iPhone videos.

01:29:22.440 iPhone videos is just the amount of testimony and footage.

01:29:28.200 The pilot and the pilots, you're right.

01:29:29.540 They themselves, they see it with their eyes

01:29:31.380 and a camera sees it.

01:29:33.180 Like, it may already exist in a way.

01:29:35.460 So those do exist.

01:29:36.580 Like, when a person has their eyeballs and their jet has a camera and they both see the same thing,

01:29:42.100 that's definitely multimodal sensing.

01:29:43.980 So that's what I'm saying, Palmer.

01:29:44.740 They exist.

01:29:45.340 And I'm saying we don't have enough of those tracks.

01:29:48.380 But what is it?

01:29:49.140 You certainly have a theory.

01:29:50.180 What is it?

01:29:50.820 What is this thing?

01:29:52.060 Okay, let's run through the possibilities, right?

01:29:53.720 It's not necessarily extraterrestrials.

01:29:56.880 There's a lot of classified government activity.

01:29:59.920 So I would actually bet against it at this point because the way our government is acting is not consistent with if it was a known U.S. government activity as we know the U.S. government today.

01:30:11.660 What if they want you to think that? 0.94

01:30:14.140 Let me throw out – I often find the best way to answer questions in the modern day is to look at what sci-fi has said in the past because they've all thought about all this shit, right? 0.96

01:30:23.040 They might not be aliens. 0.97

01:30:24.680 It might be time travelers.

01:30:26.400 They might be from another dimension bleeding into our own. 0.52

01:30:29.160 they might be the echoes of a well that's even fucking weirder they could be they could be the

01:30:34.840 they could be the echoes of a warp drive the guy from interstellar yeah yeah and so like like one

01:30:40.260 of my favorite fiction examples in fiction uh michael creighton novel um uh the uh a sphere

01:30:45.280 have you read this all right i'm gonna spoil sphere everyone if you don't want to get sphere

01:30:50.100 spoiled it's from the 90s so it's it's it's you you know movie no movie adoption did they ever

01:30:54.680 make it i don't know if they ever made a movie wasn't the one with jodie foster

01:30:57.940 I honestly don't know.

01:30:59.300 I mean, I know they made Jurassic Park.

01:31:00.860 I don't know if they made a sphere movie.

01:31:02.100 Okay.

01:31:02.420 But in that one, they find this alien spacecraft and it's on the bottom of the ocean.

01:31:08.700 And they're like, oh my God, this is incredibly advanced technology.

01:31:11.980 What does this mean for the whole universe?

01:31:13.440 And they jump to conclusions.

01:31:14.480 Like they spend way more on looking for search for astral intelligence.

01:31:19.260 They start looking.

01:31:20.240 They assume there's going to be aliens that are coming and they spend all this money.

01:31:23.620 And by the way, the book isn't about this.

01:31:25.100 It's just like the location for it.

01:31:26.780 But I was always interested in, like, the government response to this.

01:31:29.300 The government goes there.

01:31:30.640 They quarantine the sphere.

01:31:32.880 Sphere, 1998 film, Jodie Foster.

01:31:34.420 Oh, there you go.

01:31:35.320 An adaption of Michael Crichton's novel of the same name. 1.00

01:31:38.480 Great fucking movie. 0.99

01:31:39.280 So let me just tell you what happens. 0.99

01:31:41.400 At one point, you know, they get into the boat.

01:31:43.180 They're doing all this.

01:31:43.740 The military's quarantined it.

01:31:44.920 And the whole sphere is covered in, like, coral growth, right?

01:31:49.040 Because it was, like, where a reef was.

01:31:51.020 And so some guy has, like, a scraper.

01:31:52.860 And they're scraping this area where the door is.

01:31:55.820 and there's like oh my god it's a door we can get in and then he scrapes and next to it is a u.s flag

01:32:02.620 and a military designation it turns out that it's a u.s ship from thousands of years in the future

01:32:09.520 that came thousands of years into the past crashed thousands of years in the past yeah and then was 0.83

01:32:15.200 stuck at the bottom of the ocean till we found it and shit it's just i'm like it was a great twist 0.59

01:32:19.700 you're like oh my god it wasn't aliens it was us yeah and i kind of wonder with these uaps is 0.96

01:32:25.780 there going to be a similar twist i think so and i i think that's actually i think so i do think so

01:32:29.900 not that anyone cares or and by the way it doesn't even necessarily and people say well palmer you're

01:32:34.020 saying that it's like the u.s military well no it doesn't need to be the u.s military like like

01:32:38.480 what if there was another race that lived on earth millions of years ago what if what if humans are

01:32:43.680 actually seated here from another race that i was passing through the neighborhood there's there's

01:32:48.460 so many and like there's so many interesting explanations that are not strictly like aliens

01:32:53.600 from another solar system or another way in a way that that is kind of alien though it is alien in

01:33:00.300 the in the in the in the classical sense of the world and i i i don't know what it is but i'll

01:33:05.140 tell you i think uaps are going to prove to be something like that it's going to be a weird

01:33:08.720 twist yep maybe something we can't even conceive of that's along those lines probably yeah i don't

01:33:13.780 think they're going to like i guess i'll end it with this i don't think the things that they see

01:33:18.440 on those videos that the pilots thing i don't think that they're just going to i don't think

01:33:22.540 it's a thing you can just wrap your hands around it and put it in a hanger and snap a picture with

01:33:27.620 your iphone and say yep we've solved the mystery i think it's like metaphysical i think it's

01:33:33.300 something weirder than wow so i think it's something weirder than being able to find out

01:33:37.820 what it is you know i mean so they can loiter so some of the shots that have been taken are

01:33:43.380 some of the shots that have been taken were from thermal like thermal spectrum ir imagery and uh

01:33:49.220 you know there we have we have multiple drones that can do that but honestly the fighter jets

01:33:52.720 they've already had chasing these things i mean some of those are they're capable they're much

01:33:57.660 faster than maneuver on a dime it's not even and you've heard some of these pilots they're like i

01:34:01.500 was going after it like we went there and then it just took off yeah accelerated a bit at an

01:34:07.060 unbelievable rate and then i i lost that lost sight of it and apparently they can also go through

01:34:11.580 water like underwater uaps so i have this book it's out of print i believe it's called the ufos

01:34:16.940 and usos of the santa catalina channel and basically there's this long history of the

01:34:22.200 area between southern california and catalina island being this hotbed for unidentified

01:34:27.320 submersible and people people have seen stuff going in and out of the water now how many of

01:34:32.640 those people were, you know, were having too good of a weekend, you know, and Catalina wine mixers

01:34:40.440 sending it. But what this author did is he went around and he basically interviewed all of the

01:34:44.860 people he could find. And took a group consensus. And he basically tells each of their stories and

01:34:49.440 his, his pitch is not, Oh, each of these people is credible. His point is in aggregate, what are

01:34:55.320 the odds that every one of these people is lying individually, given the stakes, given the, like

01:35:01.700 a lot of them they were they their careers were impacted by speaking out have you seen the

01:35:06.660 documentary have you seen the documentary the phenomenon of course i mean that that and that

01:35:10.660 was the same pitch there right they're like look even if you don't believe all this what are the

01:35:14.300 odds that all of these people everybody and even people have like some it's like it's one thing

01:35:18.160 if it's like oh crazy youtubers yeah right but then you have like these like a family in new

01:35:22.360 mexico where he like refuses to talk to anybody for weeks about this weird thing and finally they

01:35:27.780 drag it out of him he's like it came and like it came out of the sky and it scorched the earth

01:35:32.160 and and weird stuff came out and i but i don't want to talk about it like and then everyone

01:35:36.780 ostracizes him and they say it was like oh it's a satanism thing yeah like he knew that he was

01:35:42.860 going to be ostracized for it's like what does he have to gain yeah but well notoriety notoriety 0.93

01:35:47.880 people people interested in this story for once in life gary from the trailer park in fucking phoenix 0.95

01:35:52.600 who has never gotten any attention they're finally interested in because he got anally

01:35:56.460 that's why i'm saying that's why i like throwing that out there that's why i like the people who

01:36:02.080 had the story drug out of them versus anyone who like has it and then they like call the media

01:36:06.300 like oh my god this just happened but like the people where they had no reason to speak up or

01:36:10.700 people who were in the military who saw things and were told don't talk about this and then they

01:36:15.620 did i mean there's i i feel like it's unlikely that every instance of it is just contrived it

01:36:22.080 it doesn't it doesn't make sense are you prepared for that potential twist when we if we ever find

01:36:27.480 out what's really going on I'm trying to make it happen I'm really I'm like most of what I want to

01:36:33.420 do is obviously you know trying to keep our men and women safe and keep our partners around the

01:36:38.500 world safe but a big bonus for me is that I'm building a lot of the tech that we'll need to

01:36:45.160 figure out what these things are or at least figure out if it's possible to figure out what

01:36:48.700 things are there's a chance that we there's a chance one of the one of the worst possibilities

01:36:52.680 is that we learn how to track them and see them regularly and there's nothing we can do to interact

01:36:59.040 with them or learn more like imagine if it's just a fact could you imagine like what if it's an

01:37:03.100 everyday thing every day there's dozens of you because the reason we don't see them like the

01:37:06.920 military season when they happen to be operating just too fast what if they're operating everywhere

01:37:10.300 what if all over the world there's uaps and we just don't happen to have fighter jets scanning

01:37:15.020 a zone like military radar it's like nerds with hot girls like you know they're there but you

01:37:19.380 can't interact it's just like and what if that's our life like what if you're like there's another

01:37:23.440 one of those things nothing we can do it well it won't it won't respond to us it won't talk

01:37:28.500 i think there's a decent chance that could be the end game for this so i'm almost not too

01:37:36.280 excited to get to that point i love the mystery right like i imagine but i love a mystery where

01:37:41.460 it could be anything imagine if it's a mystery we're just like yeah we'll just we'll just never

01:37:45.060 know oh my gosh uh okay all right the the guests are eight minutes away but i did it was five 12

01:37:50.420 minutes ago well i'm only going off of what my producer's telling me dude look at him what is

01:37:53.940 their tetris players i know who they are it's fractal no not quite his name isn't his name is

01:38:00.620 not scooby-doo listen i could do 10 hours on military apple is the name of blue scoody brother

01:38:05.660 so what do you think about blue so he's he's 13 years old right 14 at this point 14 at this point

01:38:10.780 So, I mean, what do you think?

01:38:11.860 It's going to be pretty embarrassing if you get taken out by a 14-year-old.

01:38:15.180 It'd be an honor and a pleasure.

01:38:16.680 Yeah.

01:38:17.360 100%.

01:38:17.760 100%.

01:38:18.200 Dude, you've got to understand, I'm the foreigner here.

01:38:22.560 I jump off the top rope on two tables on two grown men.

01:38:25.760 I don't play games.

01:38:27.860 This is a different stage.

01:38:29.060 So, what's the minimum result that you'll be satisfied with yourself in?

01:38:33.300 My honest answer is…

01:38:34.380 Like, if you don't get last place, would that be pretty good?

01:38:37.520 Yes.

01:38:37.740 If you're not the worst player here in a team of professional Tetris players.

01:38:41.540 100%.

01:38:41.900 If I win against one person, I've won.

01:38:45.500 I've accomplished my goal.

01:38:46.060 He thinks he's going to win the tournament.

01:38:47.500 I'm telling you right now, in his mind, he won't say it on this platform.

01:38:50.940 He thinks he's going to win the tournament.

01:38:52.480 That'd be pretty crazy for a part-time Tetris pro.

01:38:54.840 Part-time wrestler.

01:38:55.800 I'm a United States champ.

01:38:59.920 What would the community think if the Tetris,

01:39:04.540 classic Tetris World Championship is one on Chromatic?

01:39:07.740 will it be looked at will it be so no it's it's a separate yeah it's a completely separate yeah

01:39:13.120 so yeah so the way that it works is they basically have different categories for each of the each of

01:39:17.460 the consoles it runs on um i mean look i i think i think people are pretty stoked because this is

01:39:23.240 the first time that a handheld version of tetris has been part of it because you're able to actually

01:39:28.400 like one of the cool things about the chromatic is that it has a usbc video out and so it's playing

01:39:33.860 the game and then rendering that video out in real time and you don't have to like have a camera

01:39:38.840 pointed at your game boy screen with my friends can see my my blocks yeah yeah so your friends

01:39:43.360 can see you can put on your twitch super easy like it outputs as a webcam actually uh is one

01:39:47.340 of the options so like you can just plug you don't even need like a video capture card so

01:39:50.880 this is somewhere i can i can i can buy it dude i can do my speed running just run it it's actually

01:39:55.980 um can we take can we take some the photos and the stuff but and then have these guys pop in

01:40:01.420 Yeah. A hundred percent. Is that cool? Just to save time. So like people, people, I mean,

01:40:06.300 it's very clear you're like the next Elon Musk or at least like a version of that. Sure. Like,

01:40:11.220 I think that's like kind of what people think and especially like your investors and stuff.

01:40:15.060 Do you, do you ever think about the idea that like Elon is like building humanity and trying

01:40:20.040 to preserve humanity and you're doing the opposite and does that concern you? I don't

01:40:24.320 think so because I mean, I just look at it fundamentally differently. The way I see it

01:40:28.400 is if we have World War III with China, 1.00

01:40:31.040 then we're fucked. 1.00

01:40:31.960 And you're a hero. 1.00

01:40:33.060 Like the progress of humanity.

01:40:34.640 Yeah.

01:40:35.480 Have you heard Elon say,

01:40:37.020 there's this great line that he said many years ago

01:40:40.020 where he said, I believe that we're in a window,

01:40:43.260 a narrow window,

01:40:44.520 where it's possible for us to colonize other planets.

01:40:47.580 Only in the last 10 or 20 years

01:40:49.420 has it become possible for us to leave this planet,

01:40:51.860 get to another one, colonize it,

01:40:54.260 and make humanity a multi-planetary species.

01:40:57.060 Elon even says, I think that window is limited, and it will close, and my goal is to make

01:41:02.440 humanity a multi-planetary species before that window closes.

01:41:06.020 The way that I look at it is building the tools that deter wars are what keeps that

01:41:11.640 window open.

01:41:12.500 Because if, like, look at World War II.

01:41:15.400 Could we have gone to another planet while fighting World War II?

01:41:18.620 No.

01:41:18.760 Could anybody have?

01:41:19.560 No.

01:41:19.700 And then post-Cold War, like, remember what happened is, like, post-Cold War, everybody,

01:41:24.780 including the U.S., we needed to take a peace dividend.

01:41:26.660 end we basically stopped investing in space exploration that's why the space program died

01:41:30.480 remember that we had we went to the moon and we basically do you believe that oh it's a huge part

01:41:35.080 of it no like we do you believe we went to the moon i believe we went to the moon you do i strongly

01:41:38.520 believe i i could not disagree more oh really i couldn't oh no you're killing me i know i'm one

01:41:43.780 of those okay look look have you heard about the reflectors do you know about the reflectors

01:41:46.980 all right so when the astronauts were there they dropped a series of retro reflectors at different

01:41:52.420 points on the moon yep and retro reflectors are this type of reflector that basically takes light

01:41:56.540 and it perfectly makes it go bounce, bounce, bounce

01:42:00.300 at a perfect 180 degree angle.

01:42:02.700 You can personally yourself,

01:42:04.520 you can build a laser device.

01:42:07.060 Maybe, okay, maybe not you.

01:42:09.180 Maybe you.

01:42:09.920 Who's that supposed to be?

01:42:10.720 Maybe you.

01:42:11.760 Look, I'll send, I'll send.

01:42:12.700 Not me, bro.

01:42:13.120 Okay, I'll send you the instructions.

01:42:14.120 Let's send you the trigger.

01:42:14.800 You can build a laser device

01:42:15.820 that you can point at the moon with your own telescope

01:42:18.220 and you can point it at those points

01:42:20.040 and you can fire your laser,

01:42:22.140 wait a few seconds for it to go

01:42:23.520 and you have a sensor and it will read.

01:42:25.560 Are you serious?

01:42:26.300 your laser coming are you serious i'm 100 the astronauts left them there send me the pamphlet

01:42:31.160 i'm building these lasers because you jay laser jay laser if you're watching this jay laser i'm 0.96

01:42:37.940 sorry i'm sorry for shitting on you back when back when your products weren't that great because 0.51

01:42:44.080 right now jay laser man you made that spider suit you made that other thing and you've been 0.99

01:42:50.920 crushing it bro and i i shit on your dreams and i'm sorry jay laser and and together you 0.97

01:42:56.240 You and I, come back, come back to me, Jay Laser. 0.97

01:42:59.320 We're gonna make a laser, Jay Laser.

01:43:00.820 I'm a big fan of his stuff, too, actually.

01:43:02.140 Oh, do you know who Jay Laser is?

01:43:03.720 Yes, of course. 1.00

01:43:04.560 Let's fucking go, bro. 0.97

01:43:05.480 I used to build a lot of do-it-yourself laser stuff myself. 0.99

01:43:08.400 I've actually got some damage in my left eye

01:43:10.520 where I damaged it with an IR laser that I was building.

01:43:12.180 So you know who he is?

01:43:13.200 Oh yeah, oh yeah.

01:43:14.140 This is amazing.

01:43:14.980 I'm gonna, this is gonna be our collab.

01:43:16.580 We're gonna build a laser, we're gonna shoot it at the moon,

01:43:18.520 and it's gonna prove it. 0.61

01:43:19.440 Yeah, you're down.

01:43:20.280 People say, that doesn't prove, Palmer,

01:43:22.020 that the astronauts went there.

01:43:23.400 We could have sent robots that put them there.

01:43:24.560 No, it doesn't matter.

01:43:25.280 It doesn't matter.

01:43:25.840 Yeah, we made it to the moon.

01:43:26.520 I agree.

01:43:27.020 That's my fundamental,

01:43:28.560 just because, you know,

01:43:29.380 Gus Grissom and whatnot.

01:43:30.740 So, but getting back to that,

01:43:31.640 it's like, you know,

01:43:32.260 is he building humanity

01:43:34.080 while I tear it?

01:43:35.020 The way I look at it is

01:43:35.780 I'm keeping that window open.

01:43:37.360 I'm keeping that window open

01:43:38.300 where we're not fighting major wars.

01:43:41.120 And that, like, that's,

01:43:41.780 like, when I'm building

01:43:42.460 new fighter jets,

01:43:43.220 like we're building

01:43:43.500 this new jet called Fury,

01:43:44.920 and it's supposed to be a jet,

01:43:46.800 it's an autonomous fighter jet

01:43:47.960 that flies with F-35s,

01:43:49.680 and it can fly ahead of them

01:43:50.960 and with them

01:43:51.380 to carry way more weapons

01:43:52.320 and push things out

01:43:53.060 and do way more aggressive tactics

01:43:54.520 because it's okay if they die.

01:43:56.780 And I think that that's the type of thing

01:43:59.160 that has China quaking in their boots. 0.97

01:44:01.640 They're like, oh crap, 0.98

01:44:02.780 America now has this weapon that is cheap, 0.95

01:44:05.140 that is able to blow up my fighter jets,

01:44:06.740 and if I try to take over this area,

01:44:09.680 they're going to wipe out my military.

01:44:11.760 That's how I look at it.

01:44:12.660 Do you think there's a chance

01:44:13.700 that China has a Palmer Luckey

01:44:15.420 with a Metamon shirt, clogs on,

01:44:17.420 and a mullet who has the same technology?

01:44:19.700 I know for a fact they have people just like, 1.00

01:44:21.580 fuck. 1.00

01:44:21.920 Look, I used to spend time in China, right? 1.00

01:44:25.220 Because Oculus, we made millions of headsets there.

01:44:27.480 And I know how good they are.

01:44:28.960 They are extremely good.

01:44:30.440 And our defense industry is so broken and busted and archaic.

01:44:36.660 And so that part, and I know China's isn't.

01:44:38.900 China has a bunch of people like me, like really hardcore.

01:44:42.620 Mullets?

01:44:43.640 Maybe not mullets.

01:44:44.720 They don't usually pull that off.

01:44:46.540 Dude, that was a great answer to that question.

01:44:48.800 Good, I'm glad you're here.

01:44:49.420 Was that okay to ask?

01:44:51.160 Yeah, no, that's fine to ask.

01:44:52.300 Could we put that in the show or do you want to keep it out?

01:44:54.440 If you want to use it, that's totally fine.

01:44:55.720 Really?

01:44:56.160 The only thing I would add is the last bit is at the end of the day,

01:44:59.260 this is really about making sure that everyone doesn't use nukes.

01:45:02.220 Facts.

01:45:03.540 Alexi and Hank?

01:45:05.000 Right here.

01:45:05.940 My God.

01:45:06.780 Hank Rogers.

01:45:09.540 What a pleasure.

01:45:10.720 Hey.

01:45:11.240 How are you, Logan?

01:45:12.160 Nice to meet you.

01:45:12.700 Nice to meet you, man.

01:45:14.040 Dude, it's an honor.

01:45:15.680 This is the coolest thing ever.

01:45:16.680 Alexi, no way, bro.

01:45:19.140 No way.

01:45:20.060 hey logan nice to meet you man nice to meet you crazy what okay oh we're lucky nice to meet you 0.80

01:45:27.300 feel free to sit right here oh my gosh that's impossible that's impossible

01:45:34.440 wow alexi pagidnov hank rogers the person who invented tetris and the person who brought tetris

01:45:42.360 to the united states i watched the tetris movie i saw you guys in character now i'm seeing you

01:45:46.080 real life there you go this is insane you guys have taken so many hours of my life for your game

01:45:54.240 in a good way give them back was it a good hours or bad hours so good so good we gifted to you not

01:46:02.560 taken from dude you're really so russian just like in the movie that's crazy dude what an honor man

01:46:09.280 you guys must be so just elated by the success this game has had

01:46:13.120 it's the goose that lays the golden eggs yeah so i mean all we have to do is feed the goose

01:46:19.420 but but but even just the way this game has changed in the last decade like like everyone

01:46:25.320 thought you couldn't get past what was it 126 and then they figured out hyper tapping and then the

01:46:29.900 strategy changed to rolling then scooty gets the kill screen like like the history of this game

01:46:34.500 the way it's evolved and taken a life on its own from your original code alexi is insane yeah it's

01:46:40.620 Not my original code, but it's a very important code he broke, and that's a great achievement.

01:46:46.820 Dude.

01:46:47.720 But we have lots of platforms to get challenged from.

01:46:52.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:46:53.380 Oh, my God.

01:46:53.820 Are you guys besties in real life?

01:46:56.280 We're besties.

01:46:57.020 If we're in the same city, every other day, bottle of wine.

01:47:00.140 No way.

01:47:00.800 A whole bottle, huh?

01:47:01.780 A whole bottle.

01:47:02.320 That a boy.

01:47:03.120 He's Russian after all.

01:47:04.300 We couldn't be more different.

01:47:05.760 So he likes classical music.

01:47:07.480 I like rock.

01:47:08.580 And he likes to plan things.

01:47:10.280 I like to adventure.

01:47:11.660 So when we go on a trip together, one day it's all planned.

01:47:15.580 The second day it's adventure.

01:47:17.380 Third day it's all planned.

01:47:19.040 Compromise.

01:47:19.500 So it goes back and forth.

01:47:20.900 I got to ask, what's your favorite game outside of Tetris?

01:47:24.140 What's the number two?

01:47:26.680 Well, what's your favorite book?

01:47:29.940 Favorite book?

01:47:30.780 Probably The Unincorporated Man.

01:47:33.320 Well, you have one.

01:47:35.180 Oh, yeah, not everybody has one.

01:47:36.740 That's fair.

01:47:37.340 Yeah, well, I like all the games.

01:47:39.680 My heart is in puzzles, so I mainly play small, small games from the app stores.

01:47:47.280 But I spent about ten years on World of Warcraft.

01:47:50.520 Me too, Alexi! Let's go!

01:47:53.920 I was addicted.

01:47:55.400 I'm sorry, I did this to him.

01:47:57.800 I turned him on to, I said, you got to try this.

01:48:00.080 And wow. Yeah.

01:48:01.480 What was your what was your class?

01:48:04.200 The late one was Druid, but I play a lot of Warlocks as well.

01:48:08.160 Alliance or Horde?

01:48:09.600 Light. Alliance or Horde. Ah, Alliance. You were a knight elf druid? Yeah, I'm not that marginal to play Horde, you know.

01:48:18.600 Yeah, yeah. I was the same way. I was no mage, baby. DPS. You could get back into it now that they're bringing back the...

01:48:24.600 Oh, yes. Did they bring it? World Order of vanilla? Yes, I just did. They recreate classic. It's awesome.

01:48:31.600 No way. See, Tetris takes enough time. My fiance is like... After this tournament, actually, I got to retire, dude.

01:48:37.600 dude you guys know i'm competing oh you are in the world champion i'm competing on this console

01:48:43.920 yeah oh the mod retro the chromatic got it got it this palmer made this and so i'm competing on

01:48:49.460 this because i played handheld game boy oh wonderful so it'll be pretty interesting to

01:48:53.820 see because you know usually you're wrestling yeah now you're now you got to beat a whole

01:48:57.300 bunch of turbo nerds like me i'm a turbo nerd disguised as a wrestler but but there's a chance

01:49:03.180 I leave this giant room in the next 20 minutes 0.99

01:49:07.360 and get my ass handed to me by a handful of 14-year-olds. 0.99

01:49:11.720 Good luck. 1.00

01:49:12.680 Thanks, brother.

01:49:13.420 Thank you.

01:49:13.980 I wanted you guys to just come on and say hi.

01:49:17.020 It's such an honor to meet you.

01:49:19.140 Thanks for coming on Impulse, by the way.

01:49:20.460 This is the podcast.

01:49:21.620 Well, thank you.

01:49:23.060 Gee, we haven't figured that out.

01:49:26.960 Yeah, I mean, if you don't mind,

01:49:28.720 Do you have a succinct version of how you found this dude in Russia?

01:49:34.060 For people who haven't seen the Tetris movie?

01:49:35.880 Oh, so I was a publisher of computer games in Japan.

01:49:40.020 And I used to travel around the world looking for games.

01:49:43.580 I found Tetris at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

01:49:47.580 And I found out that nobody had the handheld rights.

01:49:51.980 So I made a deal with Nintendo.

01:49:54.040 I said, I'm going to go to Russia and get the handheld rights.

01:49:56.520 Got on a plane with a tourist visa.

01:49:58.720 Spent a week or 10 days in Russia, got the handheld rights.

01:50:02.700 I know I'm not supposed to talk to anybody in the Soviet Union with a tourist visa.

01:50:07.740 I'm supposed to be invited and all that.

01:50:09.820 So I was taking a chance. 1.00

01:50:12.760 You could say I was brave or you could say I was stupid. 1.00

01:50:15.440 A little bit of both. 1.00

01:50:17.100 But it was definitely an adventure.

01:50:18.380 I mean, it was an adventure just finding him, finding anybody, because I didn't know anybody.

01:50:23.280 In the movie, it was riveting.

01:50:24.600 I thought the Soviets were going to take him down.

01:50:26.560 They squeezed a year and a half of my life into, like, two hours.

01:50:30.180 Were you happy with it?

01:50:31.160 Oh, yeah.

01:50:32.120 I mean, I cried a couple of times during the movie about things that never even happened.

01:50:40.000 It's like, yeah.

01:50:40.900 So we worked on the script, and we got the feeling of the Soviet Union.

01:50:45.560 We wanted to make sure that it really felt like the Soviet Union, and it did.

01:50:48.880 It did.

01:50:49.200 It totally did.

01:50:49.760 They pulled that off.

01:50:51.680 And now your daughter is the CEO of the company.

01:50:53.380 She's, yeah.

01:50:54.620 I'm, yeah.

01:50:55.940 She runs it.

01:50:56.980 This is fantastic.

01:50:58.000 All right.

01:50:58.320 All right.

01:50:59.100 I appreciate you guys. 0.99

01:51:00.220 I'm going to go get my ass handed to me by Blue Scooty. 0.81

01:51:04.180 Palmer, thanks for coming on the podcast as well. 0.98

01:51:06.900 We look forward to seeing your weapons.

01:51:08.840 We look forward.

01:51:09.560 No, we don't.

01:51:10.660 Not in use, but in like a laboratory.

01:51:14.000 You look forward to seeing them unused.

01:51:16.000 Exactly.

01:51:17.200 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening to this episode of Paulson.

01:51:19.060 We love you.

01:51:19.500 We'll see you next time.

01:51:19.960 Take it easy.

01:51:20.400 Peace.

01:51:20.980 Also, subscribe.

01:51:22.300 Lisa, tell them about our new show.

01:51:24.380 We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me.

01:51:27.600 I'm Lexi Iwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart.

01:51:32.860 And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references,

01:51:37.260 occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

01:51:41.440 Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, Good Taste is my business.

01:51:46.580 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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01:52:02.360 Comedy podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft.

01:52:07.260 Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants.

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01:52:12.560 Does the Pope dress up?

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01:52:16.160 He gets right up next to the microphone.

01:52:17.420 I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other.

01:52:21.020 You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween.

01:52:26.340 Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app,

01:52:30.820 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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01:52:39.460 the true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it.

01:52:43.840 Each week I bring on an amazing guest.

01:52:45.600 Ooh, I scammed them.

01:52:46.920 What?

01:52:47.420 I could talk to you for an hour.

01:52:48.920 You're a generational yapper, like me.

01:52:50.980 That's why I had to make yapping a job.

01:52:52.940 And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube.

01:52:56.200 Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app,

01:52:59.180 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:53:02.140 Scam Goddess!

01:53:03.980 I'm Hamza.

01:53:04.660 And I'm Martin.

01:53:05.240 And we're the hosts of Out of Character,

01:53:06.600 the best podcast in the world.

01:53:08.500 It's really funny and a good time.

01:53:10.060 Wait, really?

01:53:10.540 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:11.020 I think statistics just came back,

01:53:13.060 and we're one of the funniest two guys with mics,

01:53:15.320 and that's pretty hard to beat right now.

01:53:17.200 but it's true, actually.

01:53:18.760 Why should people listen to us?

01:53:20.060 Tell them.

01:53:20.480 Well, we're trendy.

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01:53:22.720 You get all your news here.

01:53:23.860 Not, you know, the facts,

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Impaulsive with Logan Paul - June 19, 2024

Meet Palmer Luckey： The 31 Year Old Tech Billionaire Making Lethal Weapons For America

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