Impaulsive with Logan Paul - Paul Heyman on Mocking John Cena, Returning With Roman Reigns & CM Punk, Logan Paul’s WWE Future

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00:01:00.940 Lisa, tell them about our new show.

00:01:03.560 We have a new podcast.

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00:01:06.300 I'm Lexi Iwanu.

00:01:07.500 We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart.

00:01:11.440 And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one,

00:01:13.640 which means we have wildly different references,

00:01:16.080 occasionally different opinions.

00:01:17.500 And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

00:01:20.340 Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes,

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00:01:52.980 He winks on Halloween.

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00:02:04.840 Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:02:12.680 The most prolific manager.

00:02:14.600 Paul Hamer.

00:02:15.720 I love when I see you getting picked up.

00:02:18.540 And slammed through the table.

00:02:20.280 Why I did it is because that's what the story needed.

00:02:22.540 What about you ad-libbing John Cena's theme song?

00:02:27.140 Because I went up to John and I said, my retort's a little unconventional.

00:02:30.220 And he says, he goes, I'll react to it naturally out there.

00:02:32.320 I said, you sure you don't want to know this?

00:02:34.400 You can't see me and I can't hear you right now.

00:02:36.720 And he walked away.

00:02:37.800 My version of you deserve it is you still suck.

00:02:40.280 I love when they say that.

00:02:41.580 Yes.

00:02:42.160 I do, I do suck.

00:02:43.120 And well, from what I understand.

00:02:45.740 What did you do to look that disheveled?

00:02:48.480 Didn't shave for several days.

00:02:50.040 Didn't wash my hair for several days.

00:02:52.080 It's like, I wanted to walk in with people going like, yo, come here, Vanessa.

00:02:54.780 And then you ended up being with Young Undertaker, Young Steve Austin, Mick Foley.

00:02:59.260 Anybody that follows this industry knows that I am the GOAT and that it should be acknowledged

00:03:03.860 and accepted and respected and worshipped.

00:03:14.160 What's going on right now?

00:03:15.140 What's going on?

00:03:16.740 How you doing?

00:03:17.700 How you doing?

00:03:18.180 How you doing?

00:03:19.060 How you doing, Paul?

00:03:20.280 What's up?

00:03:20.700 Hey, how are you?

00:03:21.520 What's up?

00:03:21.920 what's up you're definitely from how's it hanging no i can't say that on this podcast

00:03:26.460 you can't say that you can't you can't you can't say how's it hanging i would prefer you use

00:03:34.760 different verbiage are we going conservative no are we rolling yeah oh okay yeah yeah

00:03:43.040 scratching my eye what's going on with your eye i don't know what is going on by i didn't know

00:03:49.300 we're rolling can we start over no no no no no no no you gotta understand we're just gonna roll

00:03:53.640 because you have to understand this is the chill nature of the show we i'll tell you what pretend

00:03:57.200 these cameras aren't here but so why'd you tell me to open with how's it hanging no you said listen

00:04:02.900 no matter what when we start rolling please say how's it hanging i could i concur i want to start

00:04:06.980 the podcast and i was like you really want me to say that it's such a vulgar term and you said yeah

00:04:11.420 fuck anybody that doesn't want me to want you to say it just go ahead and say it you know because

00:04:16.120 when i go i i choose to say how's it hanging let's start over we're gonna have this based

00:04:25.040 on me twice the other day 4 a.m well then maybe we should start over in three two one and begin

00:04:33.200 welcome back to impulsive the number one podcast in the world ladies and gentlemen thank you for

00:04:37.380 listening watching viewing subscribing if you're not any one of those hit that subscribe button

00:04:41.060 Guys, we have the most prolific manager in sports entertainment, one of the best storytellers of all time, and the man who is probably the most knowledgeable in terms of wrestling and the history of the world.

00:04:54.840 Ladies and gentlemen, his name is Paul Heyman.

00:04:58.680 Yes.

00:05:00.700 Thank you.

00:05:01.920 And thank you for not saying it along with him and ruining my own shtick when I do it live.

00:05:06.120 widely regarded as one of the greatest managers

00:05:09.880 and creative minds in the history of professional wrestling.

00:05:14.600 I'm not flattered by that at all.

00:05:16.360 Are you offended by it?

00:05:18.100 No, it's the one of.

00:05:20.180 You're both in, well, I know you are.

00:05:22.100 You just had a baby.

00:05:23.060 You're both in committed relationships now, right?

00:05:25.380 Yep.

00:05:25.620 So if your significant other wakes up next to you and says,

00:05:29.640 you're one of the best lovers I've ever had.

00:05:33.940 One of.

00:05:34.140 uh is it hey honey we're spending the morning in bed or is it a call to the divorce lawyer

00:05:40.580 yeah and one of is not is not it's not flattering at all the object is to be the greatest what do

00:05:45.800 you have to do for them to change this wikipedia from one of the greatest to widely regarded as

00:05:50.980 the greatest manager and creative mind of all time well that's if anybody takes wikipedia seriously

00:05:56.860 And when they write one of as their credentialed biography of Paul Heyman, it immediately kills their credibility.

00:06:05.000 And anybody that follows this industry knows I'm not one of anything and that I am the goat and that it should be acknowledged and accepted and respected and worshipped.

00:06:16.880 And that when they read Wikipedia and it goes one of, they simply they go, they look at that and I'll say it into that camera right there.

00:06:23.640 They go, fuck Wikipedia.

00:06:26.180 and if wikipedia would like to unfuck that fuck then they are welcome to change that biography

00:06:32.680 into what is historically accurate yeah 100 you are the goat just got inducted in the wwe hall of

00:06:39.180 fame congrats oh well thank you yeah for sure but never gave me that platform again yeah you know

00:06:46.020 you you definitely you you gave it your all out there i mean if we're gonna do it in philadelphia

00:06:51.300 And that was one of the impetuses.

00:06:53.920 Impetai?

00:06:54.840 Impetai.

00:06:55.680 Impetai.

00:06:56.160 Is that the word?

00:06:56.780 I don't know.

00:06:57.200 I like it.

00:06:57.640 Let's say impetai.

00:06:58.660 Let's make up the word.

00:06:59.580 Yep.

00:07:00.240 If that's one of the impetai of putting me in, well, then, and I told them up front,

00:07:06.280 if you want me to do this in Philly, it's not going to be family-friendly PG, Paul Heyman, the wise man.

00:07:14.980 Oh, well, thank you so very much.

00:07:16.260 And I acknowledge my tribal chief.

00:07:18.060 this is this is you can put me in in philly we're we're going for it and they were all like yeah

00:07:23.360 that's what we want out of it good yeah yeah they chant the crowd started chanting you deserve it

00:07:28.480 which by the way must be nice i've never gotten that chant but then you said yeah you're damn

00:07:32.980 right i fucking deserve it yeah yeah you yeah you're fucking right i deserve it yeah and it's

00:07:38.160 funny because i had no idea how to open i i i winged the whole speech what do you say to people

00:07:45.340 who say you aren't very humble but i think i i think there is a lot of ability in in in what i

00:07:52.640 in what i offer as self-presentation i i but i i also i have a lot of self-awareness and i'm i

00:07:58.580 understand the i don't know if the normity is the right word but i i i i understand the legitimacy

00:08:08.580 of my body at work, and I understand the opportunities that I've had and the blessings

00:08:16.140 I've had, and I've been able to exploit, but I mean, you know, I learned about humility

00:08:23.180 this way.

00:08:23.660 When I was seven years old in 1973, way back then, Willie Mays came back to New York to

00:08:32.240 play one more season for the New York Mets, because he had started his career with the

00:08:36.140 Giants, who were then in New York.

00:08:38.580 and my father said, come on, I'll take you to Shea Stadium.

00:08:41.160 We'll go watch Willie Mays play.

00:08:43.040 You've got to see this guy.

00:08:44.240 He's seamless.

00:08:45.040 He makes it look so easy, and it was a great game, and the Mets won,

00:08:49.380 and it was a big celebration.

00:08:50.580 We get in the car, and we're driving, and I'll say gate six.

00:08:56.840 I don't really know what gate it was, you know, and I said, oh, look,

00:08:59.760 gate six, let's go over there, and my father says, why?

00:09:02.660 I said, well, that's where the ballplayers come out.

00:09:06.000 They get on the buses there.

00:09:07.060 and well let's let's go let's go say hi he says they're done they've done their job

00:09:13.040 they they they've plied their trade they're going home now let's give we get to wave and he goes why

00:09:18.360 why would you why would you give a shit i said because they're the ball players and he stops

00:09:23.760 the car and he pulls up because he had a stick shift and he pulled up the emergency brake and

00:09:27.300 he says let me explain this to you they're the same as everybody else doctor lawyer garbage man

00:09:33.220 back then there were toll collectors

00:09:36.120 you know at the bridges. Toll collector

00:09:38.200 telephone operator

00:09:39.660 school teacher

00:09:40.940 guy at the deli who cuts your meat

00:09:43.720 he says these guys

00:09:45.960 just happen to do what they do

00:09:47.960 in public. He says that at home

00:09:50.020 they got someone else

00:09:51.840 bitching at them. They got kids that don't

00:09:53.920 listen to them. They got dogs that are going to

00:09:56.000 bite the neighbor. He says that when they go to the

00:09:58.020 bathroom he says and they wipe their

00:09:59.900 ass their fingers going to go through the toilet paper

00:10:01.880 and get shit on it just like you and I get just like everyone else he says so he says so stop

00:10:05.700 looking at them like they're different than anybody else because they're not and I just

00:10:09.680 never looked at celebrity the same way um so I have no problem expressing my belief in what I've

00:10:18.940 done with my life um and uh and and and and and the accomplishments I've been a part of

00:10:25.280 but at the same time I also realize I'm just like everybody else my finger slips through the toilet

00:10:30.380 people I get shit on it sometimes yeah so I don't like like I I take the work seriously but I never

00:10:37.460 take myself seriously so so you said a phrase there that I like you said uh legitimacy of your

00:10:42.900 body of work and I actually want to talk about that for a second because Paul like now that I'm

00:10:49.320 in the wrestling business I understand like how how prolific that body of work you describe is

00:10:55.940 and i see it and i see your brilliance every friday or monday when i come to raw or smackdown

00:11:00.620 thank you but as as an outsider i'm not i'm not sure i'm not sure they would really understand

00:11:07.600 the quote-unquote legitimacy of your body of work you know that the the 40 plus years that you've

00:11:14.700 been working in the wrestling business to make it what is now like the wwe like a four or five

00:11:19.980 six billion dollar company like you're you're you're at the helm of the few creative minds

00:11:25.700 that are driving the stories and the glue behind what's making the conglomerate so great

00:11:31.300 and so i guess my question is for an outsider how would you describe what's going on with paul hayman

00:11:39.360 well and this is where the humility would kick in i really don't know how i would describe it

00:11:46.900 if I'd even be inclined to describe it because there's a part of me that says in terms of

00:11:56.480 the public, I only care about what they see within the character and how I support the

00:12:06.260 presentation of the stories that circle around the tribal chief Roman reigns.

00:12:12.600 And if I'm solely judged by that in terms of the public, then that's fine with me.

00:12:20.560 What I get to do, which is an equal passion, you know, totally an equal passion, what I

00:12:29.280 get to do backstage in working with anybody, you, Braun Breaker, Rhea Ripley, Damian Priest,

00:12:37.580 Gunther uh Cody Rhodes CM Punk um you name it you know just and and and and and people who

00:12:47.880 don't have the benefit of 40 years within the industry and just saying like like here's a

00:12:52.700 simple thing um you said before no one has chanted at you you deserve it now having seen how hard you

00:13:01.280 worked to get into the ring with Roman Reigns and the elevation of your understanding of

00:13:12.160 this industry in getting into the ring with Roman Reigns, because you could have made

00:13:18.300 the biggest star in the entire industry, especially at that moment, let alone now, not look as

00:13:27.560 good if you weren't

00:13:29.340 the proper dance partner

00:13:31.140 if the rhythm is off

00:13:33.520 the match doesn't come across as great

00:13:35.440 and he can sit there and do this to you all day

00:13:37.640 long but it's not an interesting

00:13:39.420 match

00:13:40.060 we kept building up to that one lucky

00:13:43.580 punch, that one lucky punch, that one lucky punch

00:13:45.480 and if you threw the punch like this

00:13:47.360 holy shit

00:13:49.040 it would have been terrible for all of us

00:13:51.420 and having witnessed

00:13:53.380 how much you deserve it

00:13:54.680 My first thing that I would say to you, if we're sitting in that little cubbyhole I've created for myself now in Gorilla, is then you know you're doing your job right.

00:14:04.640 Because if they start to appreciate what you do, if they start to appreciate how good you are, if they start to appreciate what you do bring to the table, then you're not presenting yourself as a villain in a great enough fashion that they're ignoring all that it takes for you to be that villain.

00:14:29.080 And you're presenting yourself as one of the truly hateable villains in this industry to such a degree that they ignore what it takes for you to be you.

00:14:41.160 That's a compliment to you.

00:14:43.140 That's a compliment to your body of work right now.

00:14:47.060 I would never look for that.

00:14:48.660 In fact, as a villain, as a heel, if I'm out there and I'm in the middle of just driving that point home and they go, you deserve it.

00:14:58.840 I'd be like, I'm going to do everything I can to just get on that person's nerves.

00:15:05.280 My version of you deserve it is you still suck.

00:15:08.400 Yes.

00:15:09.020 I love when they say that.

00:15:10.360 Yes.

00:15:10.940 I do suck.

00:15:12.800 And well, from what I understand.

00:15:16.400 We've all seen the Twitter video.

00:15:18.660 but i mean if you're standing there and you go like this and they're booing you out of the

00:15:24.660 building before you ever say a word that's high praise so so paul now i understand that but i

00:15:33.140 guess this like gap i'm trying to bridge because i come from the outside world and now that i'm in

00:15:37.980 it i understand it and when i was outside i didn't the the the casual sports fan i don't think

00:15:43.960 understands wwe i mean you know what they say about it right and it's because it's john cena

00:15:49.320 told me it's he goes if someone like insults wrestling or calls it fake it tells me you just

00:15:55.100 don't you don't know anything about about the business and about the magic of the stories we're

00:16:00.120 telling here right and and and this sport of it all um and so i guess i'm trying to i i'm trying

00:16:07.100 to like weave the worlds and i believe especially in this new netflix era i think we're headed

00:16:12.720 towards a more maybe hopefully global understanding of what our business is do you think do you think

00:16:20.580 that is true and do you think we're headed in that direction well i mean we're on the number

00:16:24.200 one streaming service in the world that is available all over the world and when elon

00:16:28.060 musk colonizes mars i'm sure the very first platform that's going to be available other

00:16:32.500 than x is going to be netflix yeah um in in in that capacity at this moment i've never worried

00:16:40.820 about people that are not into what we do i i don't spend my time trying to persuade them let

00:16:46.900 alone convince them no no really you should give us a chance you should see what we do really you

00:16:51.820 should see no no i try to super serve those who are into us okay i'm the exact opposite yeah but

00:16:57.680 that's because you're an expansionist i see you're an expansionist you're looking to expand the

00:17:02.060 audience and while i'm always looking to expand the audience i'm also looking to expand the audience

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00:18:10.700 WHOOP helps you understand them.

00:18:12.540 WHOOP is the wearable health and fitness coach

00:18:14.680 that provides personalized insights into your sleep, recovery, strain,

00:18:19.020 and overall health to help you make better decisions every day.

00:18:22.380 Whether you're training, working, traveling, or just trying to feel your best,

00:18:26.540 WHOOP shows you what helps your performance

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00:18:38.360 Breaking story from Alpine News Network.

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00:19:04.620 alpine credits where homeowners get approved i'm hamza and i'm martin and we're the hosts

00:19:10.520 of out of character it's a podcast i know there's a lot of them going around but why

00:19:14.900 should you listen to ours well we're only the best podcast in the entire world and we talk

00:19:19.560 about pretty much everything under the sun for example music we're listening to underground

00:19:24.340 music, trending music, drama in music worlds. Yes. Sometimes we even talk about just everyday

00:19:31.960 mundane situations in our lives, like the cool Uber driver we just had. Or the food we just say

00:19:37.280 that was surprisingly delicious. Or we'll talk about the Met Gala and the looks that they wore.

00:19:42.680 Are they awesome? Are they trendy? Come find out. Because our opinion matters. And so does yours.

00:19:48.360 And this is a place where all of our minds can come together and connect. So what are you waiting

00:19:52.820 for come connect with us listen out of character from will ferrell's big money players network on

00:19:57.320 the iheart radio app apple pods or wherever you get your podcasts those that we have there because

00:20:02.520 the people that we if you have a super satisfied fan base they're going to bring other people in

00:20:08.740 organically yeah so i don't need to audition for those who you know someone comes to me goes oh man

00:20:14.640 you you shit sucks cool thank you very much go fuck yourself you know but but if someone sits

00:20:21.280 and goes you know i i don't watch it cool maybe you should yeah yeah my my girlfriend or my

00:20:26.460 boyfriend or my friend or my uncle my grandfather always talks about it well check us out yeah you

00:20:32.000 know it's the word of mouth thing and now that we're you know everywhere we've gone in the past

00:20:36.400 month i say how how's how's the house how's the gate we're sold out what do we do million three

00:20:41.840 million two million one million four we've been selling out everywhere yeah we i mean we sold out

00:20:47.020 Madison Square, I don't know if we sold out

00:20:48.980 the Garden, but I know the Garden was a million

00:20:50.720 three. I know Chicago was well

00:20:52.820 over a million. At TV, I know

00:20:54.720 Houston was over a million. I know the last

00:20:56.820 TV was over a million. I know

00:20:58.760 Phoenix was over a million. I know

00:21:00.760 last night was way over a million.

00:21:03.480 So

00:21:03.720 I know

00:21:07.180 business is great. And then when we

00:21:08.860 go overseas, it's even

00:21:10.500 bigger because it's all these stadiums and everything

00:21:12.960 else. You go to Saudi, you realize, oh my

00:21:15.000 God, how big

00:21:16.160 how big this is i'm not you know could we fill two stadiums in saudi yeah well i know we can

00:21:24.240 in france my god yeah um what an audience to play for so i would love to be able to expand that but

00:21:32.200 right now if we just keep the people we have and let them tell their friends and their and and

00:21:36.960 their brothers and sisters and and uncles and aunts and grandfathers and grandsons and everybody

00:21:41.040 else yep fair well it seems it seems like that's always been the play with wwe i think short of

00:21:47.860 maybe you could compete with a disney in terms of the best purveyors of product to the already

00:21:54.360 existing audience i mean the wwe does it better than anyone and so as you look at this new product

00:22:01.060 and this netflix push maybe guide somebody on the outside like myself through the idea of why you

00:22:08.860 would want to move away from a system that had been already working for decades and decades and

00:22:12.980 providing the already existing audience in exchange for this more outreach uh event which

00:22:18.640 is netflix and and the ability to reach new eyeballs yes to everything you just said yeah

00:22:25.300 it's it's it's a it's a twisted morality play it and and and it's a twisted morality play

00:22:32.580 that is presented to the audience in an avant-garde performance art

00:22:40.620 that so many people try to master.

00:22:44.840 And at the end of the day, they realize when they try just how difficult this is.

00:22:53.280 I've been around the business for 40 years.

00:22:56.000 I couldn't drop an elbow off the top rope or do a moonsault for the life of me.

00:23:02.580 And I've been around so many people that can just say, let me teach you just how to twist your body around.

00:23:07.380 And I'm like, I can't do it.

00:23:08.840 And even if I could, I don't know if I'd have the balls to do it.

00:23:11.940 Because these guys are up and down a hundred times during a match.

00:23:16.960 And every one of those bumps is life-threatening.

00:23:20.860 First bump I ever took in his business, Bam Bam Bigelow took me down to the Monster Factory, which was a big school.

00:23:28.300 Still is, by the way.

00:23:30.180 Props to them.

00:23:31.160 Shout out to them.

00:23:32.580 uh, uh, please send me a percentage of any new signups for this week, um, in New Jersey.

00:23:39.200 And he says, well, let me teach you.

00:23:40.660 It's called the hard way.

00:23:41.980 So when a manager's on the top rope and he holds the top rope, like he's yelling at the

00:23:46.280 referee and the guy comes over, pushes the ropes in, pulls the manager and manager comes

00:23:50.220 in like this and I pushed the rope, pulled it in.

00:23:53.060 I go up.

00:23:53.720 I come down right on my forehead, knock myself out.

00:23:56.600 Actually.

00:23:56.880 First bump.

00:23:57.300 Oh yeah.

00:23:57.560 Knocked myself out.

00:23:58.220 First bump.

00:23:58.680 Oh, I like smelling salts the whole deal.

00:24:00.540 Oh yeah.

00:24:01.520 Out, out.

00:24:02.080 I'm like, did I break my neck?

00:24:03.140 And they go, nope, we don't know how you didn't.

00:24:05.260 So I decided, well, I ain't going to do that anymore.

00:24:08.060 So I end up as a manager in my first match.

00:24:11.040 And on the other side is Afa, the wild Samoan, who is the uncle of Roman Reigns.

00:24:17.760 And who was Roman Reigns even born?

00:24:21.600 Roman Reigns was born.

00:24:23.640 Oh, my God, he wasn't even born yet.

00:24:25.560 and then

00:24:27.120 and Rodney Anawai

00:24:29.160 who was at the time known as

00:24:31.920 Kokina and later on became Yokozuna

00:24:33.840 and this is when he was only

00:24:35.560 350 pounds and moving lightning

00:24:37.860 fast and we're in the back

00:24:40.040 and Offa says he's called

00:24:41.340 if he liked you he called you son

00:24:42.940 he said son you want to take a bump

00:24:45.820 in his mind so I was like yeah pops whatever you want

00:24:47.940 and he says want to do a backdrop

00:24:49.420 I said yes pops I'll do a backdrop

00:24:51.520 you know how to take one yes pops

00:24:53.140 I didn't know how to take one

00:24:54.660 and um and he says he goes okay don't boost we'll place you okay pops because i'm sitting there

00:25:01.280 going i'm gonna take the best backdrop in the history of the universe won't be one of the best

00:25:05.600 backdrops it'll be the greatest backdrop the business has ever seen and he throws me to the

00:25:10.240 ropes and i come off the ropes and they go and i boost and i go way up in the air and my feet hit

00:25:14.300 the top rope and it goes bam on in the back of my head and knock myself out again again and i wake

00:25:19.840 up and he's slapping me like this son wake up son wake up son i'm like oh where am i he goes in the

00:25:25.540 middle of the ring i told you not to boo son don't booze don't booze pops don't booze and he's just

00:25:31.220 slapping the piss out of me waking me up so first two bumps i took in his business i learned real

00:25:36.980 fast yeah man it's dangerous this is this is you can you can break your neck you can you can lose

00:25:42.400 your life in this business just like that so i have infinite respect for those let alone someone

00:25:49.980 from the outside who comes in but for those who apply their trade in this business and a hundred

00:25:54.780 times a night up and down up and down up and down because one one one micro one micro inch to the

00:26:01.820 wrong direction you're screwed you're screwed for life if you have a life it's dangerous business

00:26:06.960 dangerous business i also learned that really fast it's my favorite to watch like the celebrities

00:26:12.160 come in and and you know they kind of like are inspecting the ring when we're all like they're

00:26:17.400 doing our thing they coming over and then they inspect the outside of the ring and they hit it

00:26:20.660 and every time the reaction is the exact same they turn to me they go yo this is hard

00:26:25.880 i thought this was like bouncy i'm like no man y'all have no idea i've been through everything

00:26:32.840 that you're thinking i understand personally paul for me your commitment to this industry

00:26:39.980 is partially indicated by the bumps that you're willing to take i love when i see you getting

00:26:47.040 picked up by solo sekoa and slammed through the table but i have to know what makes you still

00:26:55.760 want to commit like that and also what's going through your mind as you know like you know you're

00:27:01.640 about to get slammed through a table and you're not you're not an athlete you're not an athlete

00:27:06.900 i'm way out of shape i'm 59 years old and i uh and i love every single solitary micro moment of it

00:27:14.800 it's it's it's it's what the storyline needed and my commitment is to the storyline and that

00:27:21.460 goes back to what you were saying just before about behind the scenes you know we have a

00:27:25.900 collaborative effort behind the scenes you know and and but beforehand it was it was vince mcmahon

00:27:31.080 driving the creative and now it's paul levec driving the creative and paul's a lot different

00:27:35.360 events and paul's paul paul's a collaborator so there's a lot of collaborators around which means

00:27:40.660 that he's a lot more open to um to ideas and and especially long-term ideas um so when i get to work

00:27:50.900 you know with a talent which which and i and i'm it's such a blessing in my life because i love

00:27:57.420 working with talent. I love being able to look

00:27:59.420 at a talent and say, let me tell you where

00:28:01.380 you're going to be in a year. Let me tell you what your understanding

00:28:03.620 of this industry is going to be in a year.

00:28:06.620 And

00:28:07.020 helping them find the greatness

00:28:09.480 that's inside them that they don't

00:28:11.280 understand that they have.

00:28:14.120 You know? It's like

00:28:15.380 I remember once

00:28:16.200 we crossed paths in

00:28:21.280 Gorilla. You know, the follow

00:28:23.240 that motherfucker, you know, moment.

00:28:24.880 You know?

00:28:25.220 oh that was horrible i was like what yeah how yeah but but you but you can but you can yeah

00:28:35.120 and and just knowing you now and i knew you then like when i just don't follow that motherfucker

00:28:39.800 and you're just like you're like huh you know and and but i i know that you can yeah you know

00:28:45.540 and and i wanted you to go out there with determination of like okay bitch i will yeah

00:28:50.100 And I did and I will

00:28:52.280 But it's just like I'm still so new

00:28:54.040 You're the greatest

00:28:55.460 But that's the point

00:28:57.860 You go come here

00:28:59.440 He's going to tell me some magic words of wisdom

00:29:02.940 Before my match

00:29:03.700 And you go follow that motherfucker

00:29:05.460 But those were the magic words of wisdom

00:29:09.840 And it worked

00:29:10.600 Because it motivated you

00:29:12.260 You have it inside

00:29:13.840 I sit with a brawn breaker

00:29:15.880 And brawn breaker looks at me and he goes

00:29:16.980 This is the type of thing I'm like

00:29:19.260 man you got no idea how great you are you got no idea of the greatness that lives inside you

00:29:24.300 that just hasn't matured enough that your brain tells you i got this no matter rick flair is very

00:29:30.760 interesting to me because i've known rick for however many hundreds of years and rick and i

00:29:36.420 will always end up if we're talking about the art of the performance in the same argument rick flair

00:29:42.180 will always say to this moment to this day the day that i'm nervous walking through the curtain

00:29:48.160 i'm sorry my apologies the day that i'm not nervous walking through the curtain

00:29:54.240 i won't go through the curtain i know that's the day i'm done

00:29:58.240 and to me it's exactly the opposite no way the day that i'm nervous walking through that curtain

00:30:04.300 no matter what's going on is the day is the day i know i'm finished i'm more comfortable out there

00:30:10.520 than i am doing this we talked about that last night at dinner we were talking about last night

00:30:14.740 the idea of a an actor who has these insecurities potentially in real life or

00:30:19.980 self-esteem issues confidence issues whatever not saying that you do but for some of these people

00:30:24.440 they do as soon as they get the opportunity to turn into a character and be someone other than

00:30:28.820 themselves they the way the audience reacts to that caricature no longer matters to them they

00:30:36.280 they they can take any boos hits laughs whatever and it doesn't affect them the way that it does

00:30:41.620 affect them in real life a hundred percent it's um uh again this goes back to humility i know what

00:30:49.960 a schmuck i am i i know i i know i know i'm a schmuck i know i i'm i'm i'm just a guy that

00:30:55.140 that got through life never having to have a real job and that that that's been my goal since i was

00:31:01.320 a kid i just that's not true you've never had a normal job but your job is very real you guys

00:31:06.580 work your asses off you got to talk also about how you got in there too because i read a little

00:31:10.660 about it before we get

00:31:12.580 into it. Okay, then the word normal applies here. I've never

00:31:14.560 had a normal job.

00:31:16.060 I don't consider

00:31:17.020 the chairman of the board of Disney to be a real job.

00:31:20.680 It's like you're in the entertainment business.

00:31:23.280 But the word

00:31:24.660 normal is a better adjective for it.

00:31:26.640 I've never had a normal job. Never.

00:31:28.600 Never wanted one. I've avoided it my

00:31:30.580 entire life. So I understand

00:31:32.640 what a schmuck I really am. But when

00:31:34.580 that dude, when the wise man walks out there,

00:31:37.060 you know, when I go through that curtain,

00:31:38.260 if I have a cold, I don't sniffle out there.

00:31:40.660 uh but like like i have i have this badass eye infection it just heals um you know but when i'm

00:31:48.380 out there no eye infection i don't feel it doesn't itch doesn't hurt doesn't burn you know and if i

00:31:53.360 can use it to my advantage to make a tear could it probably would tear more if there was something

00:31:58.620 on the show that where i had to cry this would have made it a lot easier you know i i'll use it

00:32:04.600 to my advantage so um again out there that guy anything anything for the show backstage i i i

00:32:15.420 understand i'm that's what i'm one of many you once told me that when you walk out there you

00:32:20.320 feel 10 feet tall oh yeah i'm godzilla man i'm king kong i'm king absolutely so that's crazy

00:32:26.800 to me because like dude you know it's not normal to have 20 000 eyeballs staring at you waiting

00:32:32.900 for you to mess up or do the thing dance monkey dance like we're all here to watch it like

00:32:38.240 entertain us like please that's not a normal feeling to be that person in the center of the

00:32:42.900 ring and when I first got in the WWE it was a little bit of like like fake it till you make it

00:32:47.380 like like like um um at least appear confident so much so until they believe it and I got more

00:32:53.720 comfortable doing it and now now I I too feel maybe not 10 feet tall but like eight eight nine

00:32:58.940 feet tall out there but what is that thing in you that when there's all these eyeballs looking at

00:33:05.400 you grows instead of a person shrinking like why is that because i was born to do this

00:33:12.180 this is what i was meant to do uh i i uh

00:33:17.820 interactive music with an audience that that then becomes part of the band that that it's it's it's

00:33:27.140 It's the only way.

00:33:28.060 I had a, well, at least fascinating to me, probably boring to him,

00:33:32.780 but I had a fascinating discussion, unfortunately not while the podcast was

00:33:37.720 rolling, with Rick Rubin.

00:33:39.900 I did the Rick Rubin podcast two days after WrestleMania,

00:33:45.020 and we did it at the Shangri-La Studios in Malibu.

00:33:49.080 And you walk in the door, and there's one engineer's walking out going,

00:33:55.080 see you tomorrow, Rick.

00:33:56.340 Rick goes, great.

00:33:57.220 He goes, yeah, I mean, he's all tired.

00:33:58.340 He was up with Pearl Jam all night long doing a new album.

00:34:01.240 It's like, really?

00:34:02.060 Wow.

00:34:02.520 OK.

00:34:03.420 There's some greatness in the air.

00:34:05.140 And then you run down the list of people that have just played in that studio

00:34:08.420 the past seven days.

00:34:09.740 And now you're doing this podcast with Rick Rubin.

00:34:12.320 And I figured if anybody would understand it, it would be Rick.

00:34:15.700 And it's all a rhythm to me when I'm out there.

00:34:19.880 It's all music.

00:34:20.860 You know, if you analyze, and I don't encourage anybody to analyze my problems.

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00:36:29.220 I'm Hamza.

00:36:29.980 And I'm Martin.

00:36:30.700 And we're the hosts of Out of Character.

00:36:32.540 It's a podcast I know.

00:36:34.080 There's a lot of them to listen to these days.

00:36:36.020 How are you going to get to us?

00:36:37.060 Well, there's a specific reason why you should listen to us.

00:36:39.520 We are the best podcast in the entire world, I swear.

00:36:43.400 I know, bold.

00:36:44.640 But why don't we list some of the things we might talk about on a regular episode?

00:36:48.160 So sometimes we'll talk about, I don't know, the Uber driver we just had.

00:36:51.820 And how nice they were, or if we tipped them or not.

00:36:55.040 Come and find out.

00:36:56.160 Sometimes we'll talk about that weird news story from last week.

00:36:59.480 It's the one you're thinking about, trust me.

00:37:01.740 Or maybe we'll talk about music and what's happening in the underground,

00:37:04.700 or drama and music or TV shows or the Met Gala and what the actors wore.

00:37:10.500 What we're saying is we're not afraid to talk about everything under the sun.

00:37:13.680 And if you want to see what that's like, come join us.

00:37:16.260 It's a place where everyone can hang out.

00:37:18.080 Anyone.

00:37:18.980 Wherever you're from, whatever you're like, you're welcome.

00:37:22.860 Listen to Out of Character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network

00:37:25.600 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:37:29.340 If you analyze my promos, there's a rhythm to it.

00:37:32.400 Yeah.

00:37:32.700 There's a music to it.

00:37:33.700 Even, you know, ladies and gentlemen, then there's the pause, you know, and then there's, you know, my, you know, I bring the voice up.

00:37:40.040 My name is Paul, you know, and it's just, it's the same rhythm every time.

00:37:44.660 So they, they can be the chorus to saying it with me.

00:37:48.060 And then as I say things, I hype, I hype, I hype.

00:37:52.560 Then there's the pivot.

00:37:54.260 Then, then, then we go harder and then we take it home and then we make them wait a second.

00:37:59.300 And then we drive that last point home, which is the sail.

00:38:02.820 and then boom we're out of it it's all music there's all a rhythm and and if you can get the

00:38:09.960 audience in and and i've studied like musicians that do this like i've like like uh like bruce

00:38:16.780 brinkstein does it live in concert all the time prince used to do it and the audience did not you

00:38:22.920 know it it ends up being freddie uh freddie mercury and live aid you're a conductor yeah you

00:38:29.420 know and it's just it you're a conductor and and and and you're just part of the band you just

00:38:39.400 happen to be the one that has the microphone in his hand or her hand you know it's all and that's

00:38:44.260 just my approach to it but you know some will also tell you it's method acting you know i really

00:38:50.440 wanted to talk to you about this sure so again your commitment to this is is is insane and and

00:38:56.880 And part of the method acting is being willing to take the bumps and actually get hurt.

00:39:00.560 You're risking your physical health out there when you're getting slammed through a table.

00:39:04.300 But one of the things that people were talking about on Twitter a moment recently

00:39:09.400 was when you denied Solo as your tribal chief.

00:39:13.080 And when you came out for that promo, your eyes were red, unkempt beard.

00:39:20.320 Paul, you looked exhausted.

00:39:21.900 Yeah.

00:39:22.120 and i think the people who knew the story that you were telling

00:39:27.080 perceived that look as stress did you what did you do to look that disheveled and why did you do

00:39:36.300 that uh well why i did it is because that's what the story needed uh why i did it personally is

00:39:43.380 because i'm not that good of an actor i'm not you know it's the old story dustin you know the

00:39:48.400 you know the famous story about Dustin Hoffman,

00:39:49.960 a marathon man with Laurence Olivier.

00:39:51.960 Dustin Hoffman was part in the 1970s was one of,

00:39:55.460 you know,

00:39:55.740 the,

00:39:55.900 the,

00:39:56.060 the hot young independent method actors out of New York,

00:40:01.300 all,

00:40:01.640 all,

00:40:02.000 all studying,

00:40:03.160 you know,

00:40:03.820 under Lee Strasberg or Stella Adler and all,

00:40:08.840 you know,

00:40:09.000 following in the footsteps of Brando.

00:40:11.020 So there was Al Pacino and there was,

00:40:14.340 there was Robert De Niro and there was Dustin Hoffman and,

00:40:17.960 and,

00:40:18.220 and there was Harvey Keitel,

00:40:20.780 and there were all these brilliant New York actors

00:40:22.880 that are coming in, and they're all method actors.

00:40:24.680 And then there's Olivier,

00:40:26.660 the greatest thespian of all time,

00:40:30.040 would do Shakespeare in the Park,

00:40:34.880 Othello in London on Saturday,

00:40:37.900 and then he would do a Hamlet,

00:40:41.640 Shakespeare in the Park on Sunday,

00:40:43.220 and never mix up the lines.

00:40:45.480 I mean, this is Olivier, for crying out loud.

00:40:47.380 So they do the very famous scene in the movie Marathon Man, which was directed by John Schlesinger, where Olivier plays this Nazi dentist, you know, this Nazi doctor coming to New York to get all the gold that the Nazis had stolen from the victims.

00:41:01.700 And Dustin Hoffman, he thinks, knows something about when Olivier is going to grab the gold.

00:41:08.620 And he starts to drill into his teeth.

00:41:11.460 It's a torture scene.

00:41:12.660 And it's just brutal.

00:41:14.080 And for 1975, it's a very graphic torture scene.

00:41:20.120 So Hoffman took three days off, went to Studio 54,

00:41:23.660 whatever nightclub was hot at the time, did a whole bunch of cocaine,

00:41:28.780 smoked as much pot as he could, took a bunch.

00:41:32.220 This is not stuff I'm recommending for anybody to follow.

00:41:36.400 Worked for him, though.

00:41:40.660 And he comes in, and he was like,

00:41:43.200 okay I'm ready to do my torture scene

00:41:45.540 and they're all like oh my god

00:41:47.500 what happened to you and Olivier

00:41:49.180 pulls him aside and goes

00:41:50.460 how unprofessional

00:41:53.680 of you to show up on set this way

00:41:55.140 and Hoffman says we're doing a torture scene today

00:41:57.460 I don't need makeup

00:41:59.020 I haven't shaved my eyes are bloodshot

00:42:01.960 I look like shit

00:42:03.380 look at me I'm a torture

00:42:05.520 victim I'm gonna play

00:42:07.640 this scene I'm gonna win all sorts of awards

00:42:09.380 and Olivier just took a step back and goes oh dear

00:42:11.480 boy try acting

00:42:12.640 you know um and and and that's it i'm not that good of an actor so i have to rely on uh helping

00:42:24.180 myself get through that scene or through the presentation so that people look and go this

00:42:30.860 dude's really stressed out so we're going to the garden and and we had built this and built this

00:42:36.320 and built this to where since the moment roman reigns lost the title at wrestlemania solo mate

00:42:42.000 has moved to become the tribal chief. But at the garden, it all comes together. Solo had never said

00:42:49.280 acknowledge me. We waited for that. So now we get to the garden and the first, oh, the week before

00:42:56.620 is the first time he held his hand out. I had to put the mic in his hand. And I'm like, man, this

00:43:00.560 is Roman shtick. I don't want to do this. You're not the, you know, you shouldn't be doing this.

00:43:04.820 And we kept on saying by orders of the tribal chief. So we had that intrigue going on since

00:43:10.620 the first Friday after mania who's the tribal chief well it's obviously not Roman is it the

00:43:15.660 rock yeah is it solo is someone else pulling the strings is Haman actually just swerving Roman and

00:43:23.580 he's it but as solo kept just bullying me and bullying me and I'm falling apart and I'm and

00:43:29.700 now I'm not dying my hair and my hair is going gray and I'm showing up a little more unshaven

00:43:35.160 every week and my tie's not and and and and my and and and my uh my pocket square is crooked

00:43:40.980 and my suits are not pressed oh man this guy's falling apart in front of every week a little

00:43:46.500 more a little more a little more so at the garden he says acknowledge me it's like oh my god he said

00:43:53.020 acknowledge me and now he starts turning to his crew tamatanga step up acknowledge me oh my god

00:43:58.620 jacob fatu acknowledge me and as you and and and as you're going around you're going oh my god

00:44:04.400 He's going to ask the wise man to acknowledge him.

00:44:08.500 This is going to be bad for the wise man.

00:44:11.780 And finally, he gets to me, and he says, acknowledge me.

00:44:15.360 And the whole audience is like, don't acknowledge him.

00:44:17.260 Don't acknowledge him, especially in Madison Square Garden, right?

00:44:19.880 And he takes a step back, and he goes like this.

00:44:23.320 And for the first time now, he says, acknowledge me as your tribal chief.

00:44:29.580 And it's like, oh, my God.

00:44:32.100 There's no way.

00:44:33.400 Even Haman can't be so sycophantish in the moment

00:44:39.120 that he's going to buy himself out of trouble.

00:44:41.360 Even Haman has to have the balls to stand up to this.

00:44:44.440 And then, as if that's not bad enough,

00:44:47.240 Jacob Fatu hands him the Ulathala,

00:44:51.220 which I know is Romans,

00:44:53.880 which is where I wanted to start crying,

00:44:56.600 like, oh, my God, where did you get this?

00:44:59.180 Now, if I had a good night's rest,

00:45:01.740 i had a bunch i had a nice meal in the morning and i got a little sweat going on in the afternoon

00:45:07.680 and i warmed up and i'm i'm clean shaven and my suit fits perfectly and you just feel right

00:45:13.720 walking out to madison square garden going yo i'm sinatra you know i feel great that's hard to cry

00:45:20.620 but if i've been up for it for an entire night or a night and a half you know or if i got 90

00:45:26.700 minutes sleep and i intentionally woke myself up is that what you did oh yeah didn't shave didn't

00:45:32.020 shave for several days um didn't wash my hair for several days again letting the grays more grow in

00:45:39.120 took the stuff that you know washes the dye out of your hair so that more gray is showing like i

00:45:44.820 wanted the aging process for a week to be really defined ate like shit the whole week like stuff

00:45:51.040 that would upset my...

00:45:52.260 I intentionally did eight things

00:45:55.180 that I knew...

00:45:55.860 If they're spices that don't agree with you,

00:45:58.900 I ate those.

00:46:00.580 Just so my skin color was off.

00:46:04.180 Wore no makeup.

00:46:05.300 Just, you know,

00:46:06.680 intentionally wore a suit

00:46:08.680 that didn't fit me as well.

00:46:11.480 Yeah, Paul, you look like shit.

00:46:12.940 Yeah, that's exactly...

00:46:15.180 Like, I wanted to walk in

00:46:16.120 when people were going like,

00:46:16.880 yo, come here a minute.

00:46:18.320 Okay, are you good, dude?

00:46:19.800 you're okay right you know this is i wanted the whole thing of oh dear boy triathlon i just i

00:46:26.740 and and therefore it wasn't difficult for me so when it's time for me to say you're not my tribal

00:46:34.300 chief and and i'm in tears i'm just i'm bawling it's easy for me because number one i feel awful

00:46:45.660 yeah i just feel like crap out there and and and yet you have the adrenaline rush knowing because

00:46:52.380 you know that we we could feel the audience was with us and you just go like oh my god here we

00:46:57.460 go we got him we got him on this okay give them everything i got give give them everything i got

00:47:03.960 so gave them that knowing then the next step is we're going through that table but i had to go

00:47:10.860 through the table if i didn't go through the table if if they don't abuse me yeah you had you

00:47:16.260 had to be repercussions but not just that if he just spiked me yeah and then jacob fatu splashed

00:47:23.180 me well that's everybody but taking somebody who is obviously you know pushing 60 taking someone

00:47:32.040 who's obviously out of shape like i am taking someone who shouldn't go through that table

00:47:38.140 and violently putting me through the table.

00:47:42.220 And those guys knew, I want to go, this has to be violent.

00:47:47.720 This has to be shocking.

00:47:49.220 You've got to sit there and go, someone's going to save him, right?

00:47:51.740 There's no, yo.

00:47:53.360 And when you look at it, you go, dude, he went through,

00:47:56.900 he got put through that table.

00:47:58.080 Did you boost?

00:47:59.440 No, I did not boost.

00:48:02.840 No, and the thing is, I didn't have to.

00:48:04.540 Jacob Fatu was like, you're going through that table, man.

00:48:07.880 you know and and and that and that was the thing and um there is it it's what the story calls for

00:48:14.860 it was riveting it was riveting it's one of the coolest things for me now as a peer

00:48:19.180 to watch from home and and like i'm glued i'm glued and when i was watching all that go down

00:48:25.940 you you i acknowledge that you are not my tribal chief i went like all the millions of fans at

00:48:32.960 home watching i'm like no way and then i knew something had to happen yeah but that's the

00:48:37.860 what price won't you pay for greatness what price won't you pay for that moment yeah you're asking

00:48:48.500 the wrong guy i'll do anything but that's it but that's what i'm saying that's and that's the

00:48:54.980 commitment well you and i have had a conversation without revealing confidential stuff and stuff

00:49:02.100 that's private about what it takes to be at the absolute top of this industry we'll leave it at

00:49:09.440 that and and and i just told you it's a commitment like no other yeah it's it's all-encompassing

00:49:16.400 it's everything you got because when you get there and when you over deliver when you exceed

00:49:26.360 your own limitations in life when you know you are only one of the best but you want to be the best

00:49:34.880 one of the greatest but you want to be the greatest you can put on one of the most compelling

00:49:43.280 performances of the year but that's not good enough for you you want the most compelling

00:49:48.400 performance of the year then that's the commitment that the role requires or at least

00:49:54.900 longevity at the top

00:49:57.160 look at the

00:49:59.460 commitment Roman Reigns has made

00:50:01.480 look at the commitment someone like

00:50:03.560 CM Punk has made

00:50:05.100 Seth Rollins has made

00:50:06.860 John Cena has made

00:50:09.780 Cody Rhodes

00:50:11.400 Cody Rhodes

00:50:12.800 is the champion

00:50:14.380 if there's anybody right now

00:50:16.180 and my god the business

00:50:18.240 he's a commerce facilitator

00:50:21.020 he sells tickets

00:50:22.500 he sells t-shirts

00:50:23.780 he sells weight belts he sells replica title belts that he signs every he drives commerce

00:50:30.340 cody we need you at us we need you in detroit we're at 98 we really want to sell out we're

00:50:37.860 going to book you on three morning radio shows starting at 6 a.m in detroit great i'll be there

00:50:42.720 if there's any others overnight i'll do the overnight radios yeah yeah i'll do the afternoon

00:50:47.060 drive time radios and then i'll get to the arena in time for the show as a workhorse my god man

00:50:52.720 and he does it on his days off too the commitment that he has to promote the product that goes along

00:50:59.640 with it too so it's all about finding the again i try to find the greatness within people and help

00:51:06.780 them understand themselves and understand how to bring it out of them that's what a director does

00:51:11.560 or producer does or whatever a wise man does um and i do that with myself i understand my i shouldn't

00:51:19.460 go through that table i get it i had no business going through that table that's why i had to go

00:51:23.580 through it yeah of course you know that's that's the commitment to the story you know and and and

00:51:29.380 and if the next thing that that the next story that is is is in need of that sacrifice by me

00:51:39.400 that story is going to get it that story is going to have me and there's going to be nobody that's

00:51:46.120 going to tell me no like nobody's gonna say we're not you can't go through it i'm going i'm going

00:51:51.880 through it because solo had to do that yeah he had to do something so grotesque he had to do

00:51:58.800 something so over the top he had to do something so out of bounds he had to do something to romans

00:52:03.920 wise man to solidify himself as on the night that he declared himself the tribal chief is the night

00:52:10.120 that he went overboard in every direction and now they look at the box office he drives yeah

00:52:17.780 yeah it was needed it worked yeah i i just i'm looking at you because like i want to let you

00:52:23.580 talk no no no what do you mean no you should do it all day if this was a crack dealer i would be

00:52:28.120 talking to him non-stop you guys are in the same business i i guess i guess he he's a recovering

00:52:33.660 addict he wrote a book he knows all this stuff we don't have to get into it let me mr hayman let

00:52:38.220 me ask you a question as someone who does sit beside sir hayman son as someone who sits next

00:52:46.340 to someone who has this larger than life personality the fanfare is there ever a moment

00:52:54.700 was there ever a moment in your trajectory in your career where you thought to yourself

00:52:58.840 proverbially metaphorically i could be the fucking tribal chief no like like no no no i learned that

00:53:07.780 on my first bump on my forehead i say that metaphorically i guess what i mean dialing it

00:53:12.300 back a little bit is like knowing the complexity of what goes on behind the scenes what you give

00:53:17.600 from a creative standpoint from a business standpoint because i can i can resonate with

00:53:20.860 that in a different completely different world i do a lot with a lot of creators and connect people

00:53:24.440 and mr beast to this guy and this person do you ever feel like you're lacking the flowers

00:53:29.600 that you feel like you deserve and do you care no because i'm a supporting player i'm not the star

00:53:36.640 and nor should I be the star.

00:53:38.960 I can't carry a match.

00:53:41.160 And ultimately what people pay for

00:53:43.260 is for this storyline to be settled,

00:53:47.320 this morality play to manifest itself

00:53:51.960 into a moment that plays out physically

00:54:00.660 in front of the world,

00:54:02.820 which is why they pay to see it happen.

00:54:05.440 that what you just said is wrestling is the business of wrestling but it's a hard concept

00:54:10.820 to understand that but but but what you just said is something that i believe appeals directly to

00:54:17.080 human nature and and that's why people watch yeah yeah it's it's it's it's and and it's an easy

00:54:23.760 morality play to follow because it's it and again i'm going off on tangents here but

00:54:31.920 I always liked Better Call Saul

00:54:35.520 better than I liked Breaking Bad.

00:54:37.700 Side characters.

00:54:38.820 Well, Breaking Bad had too many

00:54:41.320 protagonists.

00:54:43.160 Too many good guys.

00:54:44.980 And Better Call Saul was

00:54:46.760 9 out of 10 bad guys.

00:54:48.960 All villains.

00:54:50.480 So now you start to choose which villain you like.

00:54:52.880 Did you like Hector Salamanca?

00:54:55.300 Or did you like Tuchel Salamanca?

00:54:57.140 Did you like

00:54:59.060 Walter White?

00:54:59.880 It wasn't part of the show, but, you know, did you like the concert?

00:55:04.220 Did you like Saul Goodman?

00:55:05.840 Did you like Mike, you know, which is a hard name to like?

00:55:09.640 I'm kidding.

00:55:10.940 You know, it is, you know, like where all villains.

00:55:16.220 So then you start to side with a villain.

00:55:18.460 Did you like Gus, you know?

00:55:20.480 So now you're like, well, I see his points, why I like him.

00:55:24.100 So the audience starts to see things in these characters

00:55:27.160 that sometimes the characters don't even know

00:55:29.420 that they're revealing, and they go,

00:55:31.580 but I like that about this guy.

00:55:33.580 Like, he could come in, and he could say,

00:55:36.600 I'm a recovering addict, but I beat my demons,

00:55:41.220 and I see the demons in every single one of you.

00:55:43.880 I'm so much better than all of you, you know?

00:55:49.680 And 90% will go, boo, screw you.

00:55:53.780 And then there'll still be someone that sits there and goes,

00:55:56.140 wow his anger comes from a deep place once he gets past that what what what a great story he

00:56:02.660 could you imagine a world where i turn heel i was gonna say you should i've thought about it

00:56:08.240 sometimes because like paul i'm like i try to be like a ray of i hate the negativity in the world

00:56:13.700 see see where we live and we exist is not wwe we we kind of like really teeter the gap between

00:56:20.860 reality and and you know this whole showbiz world but i try to bring a little bit of positivity in

00:56:27.420 a world where there's a lot of negativity but maybe there's a place where i start calling

00:56:31.940 people specifically out maybe it's other podcasters streamers you know so would you ever

00:56:38.040 manage someone outside of the wrestling uh space you know the wise man cometh uh and and always

00:56:46.620 seeketh uh other percentages so you know it's uh we might need to talk we can schmooze yeah yeah

00:56:53.620 we can out some people we've schmoozed before that's that's the other thing too doing a show

00:56:58.700 like this is like you want to cater to the audience that's watching this which will be a

00:57:02.440 primarily wwe audience but like you also have a very wild or complex backstory of just who paul

00:57:09.960 hayman is in its own right your family where you come from your parents like there's a there's a

00:57:16.600 lot there have you ever done a podcast have you ever talked about that type of stuff before

00:57:19.960 well i mean i i i know i talked about my parents on the a and e biography and i i i talked about

00:57:28.040 my parents i don't know if i did i did a brian koppelman uh he did the show billions i did his

00:57:35.960 podcast i don't know how much i talked about my parents i talked about it a bit on the rick rubin

00:57:39.800 podcast i mean i could talk about it here well your father was in world war ii my father my father

00:57:45.100 was in the navy in world war ii he's just a street kid from the bronx from rochambeau avenue in the

00:57:49.980 bronx that you know and ended up getting a law degree on the gi bill and became a lawyer was a

00:57:56.620 lawyer is a personally injury attorney in the bronx his entire life and my mother was a holocaust

00:58:01.080 survivor my mother was from widge poland was in the widge ghetto uh ended up in auschwitz um where

00:58:08.240 she lost her mother and and her sister who were the only remaining members of the family 13 of her

00:58:13.980 cousins died in the ghetto uh two two aunts both grandmothers you know the whole family was was

00:58:20.140 wiped out and she ended up on the march from Auschwitz to Bergen-Belsen with you know I and

00:58:25.660 I don't and I should know this and and I I hope I'm forgiven for not knowing the exact numbers but

00:58:31.480 however many people left Auschwitz far fewer arrived in Bergen-Belsen um and was liberated

00:58:37.740 from Bergen-Belts on April 15th, 1945.

00:58:40.720 Came to America through HIAS,

00:58:42.820 the Hebrew Immigration Aid Society.

00:58:45.580 Became a nurse in the Bronx.

00:58:48.520 And she met my father.

00:58:51.640 And then they made the mistake of having me.

00:58:56.400 So, you know, but their personalities

00:59:00.460 were very interesting.

00:59:01.700 She was the most fierce, ferocious individual

00:59:04.860 I've ever met in my entire life.

00:59:06.800 uh just you know just just had no fear and good what she had been through so to her not

00:59:12.320 there was nothing to be afraid of in life you know except something like that happening again

00:59:17.280 which was all political you know and uh and and my father was just the the coolest dude in the

00:59:23.140 world with with the greatest sense of humor and a total smart ass who never raised his voice ever

00:59:29.860 uh except when he's in front of a jury and he performed which is where i learned how to perform

00:59:35.120 which was watching my father in front of a jury

00:59:38.200 and just watching him be like, okay, I got this.

00:59:42.720 Let me go talk to the jury.

00:59:45.820 Ladies, that's where I got the ladies.

00:59:48.140 Well, the ladies and gentlemen comes from my father

00:59:50.860 introducing himself to a jury, but also comes from news conferences.

00:59:55.960 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Detective This Guy,

00:59:58.420 and this is the crime that I've been in charge of investigating.

01:00:02.180 So it's always, you know, ladies and gentlemen, my name is.

01:00:05.680 So I always thought, well, okay, well, if I'm going to do public speaking, I should always assume that nobody knows who I am and it's his first time.

01:00:12.680 So, you know, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Paul Heyman.

01:00:15.540 But that comes from watching my father in front of a jury.

01:00:17.920 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Richard S. Heyman.

01:00:19.720 I'm the attorney for this person, for the plaintiff.

01:00:23.260 You know, and when I was Brock's advocate, that was a tribute to my father because that was my father would press and press.

01:00:29.760 and a judge would finally say you know calm down calm down my father would say here honor i'm i'm

01:00:34.760 just an advocate so when i came back with brock i was like well let me be the advocate you know so

01:00:41.160 that was a that's how i felt my role was it was uh um upgrading to it was was advancing to

01:00:49.660 the evolution of the character do you i feel like i have to ask because like you've been

01:00:56.900 you've been dealing with some people who believe this but oh this is why i asked the question yeah

01:01:02.160 i figured why don't you take it well i just i i can yeah i just didn't i was trying to get into

01:01:07.120 a deeper spot with you just to explore the complexities of that noggin of yours mr hayman

01:01:11.900 it's a great noggin good noggin um there's a there's an ongoing uh tide on x formerly known

01:01:19.960 as twitter and other channels right now that is uh making an attempt to debunk the holocaust

01:01:26.680 i don't know if you ever see any of this stuff or if you're privy to it uh number of deaths

01:01:32.960 number of camps the true rationale for the initiative uh by the nazis some people even

01:01:38.680 saying that hitler was more of a hero than a villain is there any thoughts or response you

01:01:43.900 have to any of that uh goings-on can't control the narrative and if the narrative is going

01:01:49.620 to be allowed or encouraged on the platform then that platform has has fallen into the disinformation

01:01:57.900 and the historical disinformation that i myself can never control you have a free speech they'll

01:02:03.560 say yeah and and and i and i respect that uh to to a degree uh and and and and at the same time

01:02:13.720 i also understand how how it warps the the authenticity of the historical facts that have

01:02:21.300 been presented uh and and i also wonder you know the what what's the old expression and and and

01:02:27.560 actually this is something i'm sure one of the one of the first steps that you had to go through

01:02:32.540 in recovery um you know you know uh you know may i have the solace to to uh to oh the serenity

01:02:41.260 prayer right you don't grant me the strength to accept things of which i sorry of which i have

01:02:47.740 no control yes you know um using professional wrestling or at least my personal experience

01:03:01.480 professional wrestling as as an example here okay in in in 1995 i i i come i ended up taking over

01:03:10.600 the complete ownership of ECW.

01:03:13.520 And I'd already been doing the creative end for 18 months.

01:03:17.140 Now I take over the whole company.

01:03:18.740 My first move, get us on pay-per-view.

01:03:20.500 Want to get on pay-per-view.

01:03:21.860 Pay-per-view is the golden goose.

01:03:23.760 This is where everybody is right now.

01:03:25.320 We got to get on pay-per-view.

01:03:26.440 Pay-per-view makes us real.

01:03:28.140 Pay-per-view makes us established.

01:03:30.260 Pay-per-view makes us mainstream.

01:03:31.940 And we need the money.

01:03:33.820 Okay.

01:03:35.160 Could not get on pay-per-view.

01:03:36.960 Would not take us.

01:03:37.860 bob guccione of penthouse had a son who started a competition fighting league against ufc which at

01:03:47.780 the time was owned by semaphore entertainment in new york city bob meyerwitz david isaacs

01:03:53.320 campbell mclaren um and and and and and a fourth guy who wasn't an owner uh um michael michael

01:04:01.340 abramson i believe that was yeah michael was it abramson that's our attorney that's our attorney

01:04:06.860 Is it really?

01:04:07.700 There's no way to say that.

01:04:08.580 Shout out Michael Abramson if you're watching.

01:04:09.780 No way to say that.

01:04:11.120 Zero percent.

01:04:11.940 No, it's not humanly balanced.

01:04:13.400 Same name.

01:04:14.740 Same name.

01:04:16.120 But Summer for Entertainment owned UFC

01:04:17.820 and blocked in how many different states,

01:04:21.900 could not get on pay-per-view.

01:04:24.220 They were stuck on Dish and DirecTV.

01:04:30.320 And the Guccione's came out with Extreme Fighting League,

01:04:34.160 which, again, now the cable carriers started confusing

01:04:37.140 with extreme championship wrestling.

01:04:39.100 So I'm trying to get on pay-per-view.

01:04:41.320 I'm saying I'm just like WWE and WCW, but better.

01:04:47.400 And they wouldn't take me.

01:04:51.160 So our fans went nuts.

01:04:55.160 And Cablevision was based in New York,

01:04:58.200 and New York was such a hot market for us

01:05:01.120 that they started picketing outside the cable vision offices in long island they would they

01:05:07.700 would find out the fax numbers of all the cable vision executives and the cable vision

01:05:12.160 complaints and everything else and they would jam their fax machines they would call and harass

01:05:18.420 the cable hey i gotta ask you i i'm not gonna cut you off too long i cannot wait until i figure out

01:05:24.960 how you spin this back to the holocaust i can't i'm so fucking intrigued with where this goes

01:05:31.600 right now what happened is that finally the audience itself that knew the truth yep nice

01:05:41.320 that understood we are just like wwe we're just like wcw there's no difference we're not

01:05:48.880 ultimate fighting we're not extreme fighting we're ecw we're extreme championship wrestling

01:05:54.160 were just a more realistic, a more progressive,

01:05:57.480 a more 18-34 male demographic-oriented product

01:06:01.540 than WWE or WCW.

01:06:04.380 And they're going to end up copying us sooner than later anyway,

01:06:07.180 which they both did.

01:06:09.560 And Cablevision finally said,

01:06:12.700 okay, we got it.

01:06:15.200 We're going to clear ECW for pay-per-view

01:06:19.460 because we understand that the public sees this differently.

01:06:24.740 We've listened to you.

01:06:26.000 We now have looked at it.

01:06:27.740 We understand the facts.

01:06:29.840 We're clearing you.

01:06:31.400 That's something to where an uprising against disinformation will work.

01:06:41.400 When the masses rise up, then the platforms will listen.

01:06:51.920 I'm one person.

01:06:54.160 I'm one person that drives a narrative or helps drive a narrative or collaborates on driving a narrative within this industry.

01:07:04.440 but on that platform

01:07:06.440 when you have

01:07:08.220 an absolutionist like

01:07:10.300 Elon Musk and Elon Musk

01:07:12.040 is the word

01:07:14.440 absolutionist or absolutist

01:07:15.740 I'll say absolutionist

01:07:17.740 everything with him is absolute

01:07:20.160 black and white

01:07:20.860 which nothing in the real world is

01:07:23.360 so he looks at it and he goes free speech

01:07:26.140 well you know honestly

01:07:28.140 this is

01:07:28.760 damn near firing

01:07:31.180 nope nope nope nope

01:07:32.280 free speech ironically this is one topic one specific topic that and he's been in some hot

01:07:39.280 water regarding it that he's not absolutist unabsolutist on he's he's i think he's i think

01:07:46.180 he's pro-fact on this specific thing and therefore it will change and if it changes it's because he's

01:07:54.860 not an absolutionist on on on that subject um but i here's how i spin that narrative back

01:08:02.900 with cable vision

01:08:05.440 the masses spoke and the masses changed the platform until the masses rise up and say

01:08:17.480 this is wrong this is not free speech this is not a violation of the first amendment

01:08:22.440 What you are allowing, indeed encouraging, indeed enabling, is so psychologically damaging because it's wrong.

01:08:35.120 It's historically inaccurate.

01:08:37.180 You are perversing a narrative.

01:08:40.020 You are allowing history to change in front of people who know better.

01:08:47.140 this is this is this is perverse grotesque yeah uh and and and history may be perverse and

01:08:55.020 grotesque then tell it that way but and obviously the crimes that were committed were far more

01:09:01.360 perverse and grotesque than the thought of the disinformation that fights against it but until

01:09:07.140 the masses rise up i think it's going to be i think it's going to be some time because as we

01:09:12.720 always talk about this pendulum on the show the masses just rose up three four years ago and said

01:09:20.360 hey we're tired of absolute censorship on facebook instagram and tiktok so now we're going to create

01:09:28.500 this whole new world over here where anything and everything goes and as elon has has kind of

01:09:34.860 presented x to be the new face of news which is which is you know is in it to me is wild because

01:09:43.940 although although we have been lied to by mainstream news a lot there is a level of

01:09:49.120 journalistic responsibility that does exist that unfortunately you can't apply to 50 000 individual

01:09:55.740 pundits on twitter that are all posting for various reasons money clout fame hatred biases

01:10:02.560 a million different it's gonna be very interesting to see where it goes it's just i wanted your

01:10:07.140 personal opinion on it only because the only vow that came out of world war ii the only vow that

01:10:13.060 came out of the holocaust was never again right but but but never again is is a very very very

01:10:18.820 long time and and those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it here here here's

01:10:25.220 here's another thing to take into consideration there's very few survivors left scary yeah very

01:10:32.100 scary yeah it's it's 2025 uh my my mother would be 98 years old this year and when she was liberated

01:10:40.120 she was 17 years old and and and most most survivors uh weren't weren't weren't any younger

01:10:49.540 than that maybe because you know baby babies were killed my mother's sister went to the gas chamber

01:10:56.240 in Auschwitz because she was seven years old

01:11:00.060 and therefore wasn't fit for slave labor.

01:11:02.940 So there weren't many Holocaust survivors under 17.

01:11:09.260 Let's say maybe there were a few that were 14 or 15.

01:11:12.560 They're in their 90s now.

01:11:14.480 So 10 years from now, won't be anybody left.

01:11:18.220 There'll be no eyewitnesses.

01:11:19.680 I grew up in a household where I got to look into the eyes

01:11:22.480 of someone who witnessed it, who was there,

01:11:25.440 who experienced it and hearing hearing that story from that like like the the greatest robbery

01:11:34.600 my household ever experienced was the loss of my mother when my kids were so young

01:11:44.200 because they didn't get to really hear the stories and look into the eyes of someone who lived it

01:11:51.420 And that was a robbery of my children, having that experience to be able to tell their children so that it never again happens.

01:12:04.660 But this is the course of the world.

01:12:07.740 So because there's very few eyewitnesses anymore, now history can distort what truly happened.

01:12:14.880 um and and especially as the world developed in in the late 1990s going to the new millennium

01:12:23.380 everything became and and it's funny i'm not plugging the name of you know extreme championship

01:12:29.560 wrestling or or the fact that we lucked into the name extreme in 94 before it became in vogue

01:12:35.000 but everything everything in the world became extreme you know uh it's everything is

01:12:41.180 very radical um you know the the narrative the centrists don't exist anymore very few of them

01:12:51.380 you know well yeah i get called i get called so many names man fence sitter fucking neutral like

01:12:57.800 to the point you brought up in the very beginning of this discussion everything online for clickbait

01:13:04.840 reasons for monetization is black and white very few things almost no things in the real world are

01:13:12.540 black and white they all exist within a complex gray area of emotion empathy love life problems

01:13:20.200 i i think mike this is partially because like i i i try to understand like sometimes speak to human

01:13:28.940 nature in in ways that will like elicit like an instinctual response and i think i think our

01:13:35.660 species is generally like a pretty simple species or or at least like most of us skew that way

01:13:41.860 and black is an easy color to see and so is white like it makes sense to me and i yearn for something

01:13:50.340 that's easy to understand and a lot of life is not and and like you mentioned nuance and the gray

01:13:57.100 area is like you know you gotta you gotta work a little bit you gotta use your brain power to

01:14:01.680 understand i want a title i want a yes i want to know so i know it's what people want but like it's

01:14:06.680 like i i like to root myself in reality we live in a world where not everyone gets married at 21

01:14:11.560 has two kids white picket fence stays married until they're 80 has their parents with them

01:14:17.400 the whole time has a good hard-working job gets a 401k their kids go to that's not the world we

01:14:22.820 live in it's just not we have veterans under bridges we have people addicted to drugs we've

01:14:27.420 got people with mental health problems we've got even on the even on the more you know narrow plane

01:14:32.680 of people that are doing well in lives in their lives they have problems they've got distortions

01:14:37.480 they've got you know issues that they deal with every day and so this idea that like there's any

01:14:41.640 kind of real black and white nature to this life of ours is is wild but one thing that is black and

01:14:46.600 is facts yes well they can't even that even that's so that's can be black and white in in in terms of

01:14:56.900 what's true to history but history is written by the winners or now the creators of the platforms

01:15:06.120 from which history will be taught uh how much of the radicalization of these college campuses

01:15:13.360 came off of tiktok i mean i mean my god man you know it's it's again that platform enabled a

01:15:22.180 completely different mindset uh across across the country to those being educated in the highest

01:15:30.380 in the highest uh rated uh educational centers that we have to offer bless you young man it's

01:15:38.160 yes sir it's bad thank you for spreading your germs um it's uh you know um here's just an

01:15:46.500 example what was what was the hottest thing on on on facebook just a few years ago to describe

01:15:53.460 your life or your relationship as it's complicated yeah oh yeah and and and how much and that was so

01:16:02.140 easy for people you know it wasn't monogamy polygamy uh you know abstaining it wasn't that

01:16:09.280 it's always you know it's complicated it's complicated and and and um and so much of life

01:16:16.540 is complicated veterans living under bridges etc you know um new york city

01:16:24.300 taking care of the migrants that come in

01:16:29.260 in $400 a night hotel rooms.

01:16:32.380 And meanwhile, New York City residents

01:16:34.840 who just fell on hard times,

01:16:37.560 couldn't keep up with the rents,

01:16:39.560 fell behind in debt,

01:16:41.240 then end up with a substance abuse problem.

01:16:43.820 On the streets, no hotel rooms.

01:16:47.720 For people who were born and bred

01:16:49.940 and have lived in New York City,

01:16:51.980 nothing.

01:16:52.420 for migrants that come in from other countries,

01:16:57.500 $400 a night hotel rooms.

01:17:00.000 Boy, that's very difficult to grasp,

01:17:05.600 especially if you're a New Yorker, right?

01:17:10.680 It's complicated.

01:17:12.420 It's a complicated society.

01:17:14.740 It's a complicated existence.

01:17:17.000 You can't have a discussion, nor am I encouraging us to have this.

01:17:20.340 You can't have a discussion.

01:17:22.420 in any room with people about gun control,

01:17:26.320 about the abortion issue,

01:17:28.660 even about politics today.

01:17:31.480 You know, if you ask five people about Donald Trump,

01:17:35.740 if you ask five people about AOC,

01:17:38.360 let alone ask five people about,

01:17:41.200 what's Barack Obama's legacy?

01:17:44.600 What's Bill Clinton's legacy?

01:17:46.420 What's Ronald Reagan's legacy?

01:17:48.300 The answers will be so varied.

01:17:51.060 dude even lincoln and and the honestly like the fdr washington the whole vibe and opinion on

01:17:58.000 things that used to be so universally believed to be truthhoods everything's changing it's it's a

01:18:03.580 social media is a wild experiment paul it's really it's really wild it's going to be very

01:18:09.000 interesting to see where it comes one thing just to dial it back to you as we wind down

01:18:12.640 one thing i noticed about you that's that's i'm so envious of is the way that your brain works

01:18:20.300 says it recalls things from the past you're able to remember all the names of every person involved

01:18:25.040 and bring up cable vision and picket lines and what it felt like to go through the table and

01:18:29.860 the uh you know being smacked in the face and called son and pa because you were present for

01:18:36.520 all those fucking things we're only partially present 99 of the time yeah i don't know what's

01:18:41.640 like bro if you asked us to really recount and recall a story like with vivid detail from i don't

01:18:49.420 know earlier today okay you would get a you would get a weird half mush story so so what i'm i guess

01:18:58.300 what i'm getting at is it's going to be very interesting to see what 20 years from now looks

01:19:02.440 like as people try to recount these years of social media becoming the you know becoming the

01:19:06.780 norm but that's also because i have so many years of well here's an example how did it feel first

01:19:16.900 time you held your baby um bet you remember that he was on his phone no

01:19:23.520 hard to describe but i bet i bet you'll never get that moment of your life out of your head

01:19:32.300 no how to feel how to feel the first moment you met nina how to feel the first moment you realize

01:19:37.000 you're in love with nina how to feel and she said yes to marrying you these are moments and there'll

01:19:42.680 be time in your life where you're asked to describe it in a book and in a podcast and a

01:19:46.680 documentary you will have no problem just just conveying those emotions because these are the

01:19:53.340 most wonderful moments of your life here's my blessing in life and go again full circle now

01:19:59.120 in the conversation going back to being humble i'm the most blessed man i know my children are

01:20:06.180 healthy um that that's that's the first thing in life you remember what i told you yep as long as

01:20:14.280 if you wake up in the morning how's the baby baby's healthy everything else is relative i don't

01:20:18.620 like the script for tonight's show i don't like the direction of this storyline i don't like my

01:20:22.780 opponent for the next premium live event but my daughter's healthy yeah you know my children are

01:20:27.540 healthy boom everything starts from there um but i've i've lived so many lives i've lived so 19

01:20:37.660 years old i'm working in studio 54 but but but 15 years old i'm taking photographs of vince

01:20:43.700 mcmahon's father in madison square yeah because you snuck your way in of course it's crazy you

01:20:49.280 hustled your way because you what did you you knew that vince mcmahon senior dined at a steakhouse

01:20:54.800 So you called the WWE and convinced them that Vince McMahon Sr.

01:20:59.340 gave you the permission at the steakhouse that you were never at

01:21:02.520 to give you tickets to the show that would allow you to go in

01:21:05.280 as a photographer, as a press photographer.

01:21:07.100 Yes.

01:21:08.600 That's insane.

01:21:10.200 But I wanted to get in, and nothing was going to stop me from getting in.

01:21:13.320 And you're from New York.

01:21:14.800 Well, right there kind of tells you I'm a hustler.

01:21:18.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:18.520 You know, I mean, the name, the Heyman hustle happened because of a reason.

01:21:23.260 I'm a hustler.

01:21:24.240 You know, you walking around backstage at 15 years old, not backstage, ringside, 15 years old on the camera.

01:21:31.240 You can see it on certain clips in WWE like, oh, there's Paul Heyman.

01:21:34.980 Yeah.

01:21:35.360 You know, I mean, there are Andre the Giant matches or Don Morocco matches or Bob Backlund matches, you know, Sergeant Slaughter matches.

01:21:41.740 And you see me ringside, you know, but the key was not to take the ringside photographs.

01:21:46.240 The key was me backstage learning from these guys.

01:21:49.780 And then you ended up being with Young Undertaker, Young Steve Austin.

01:21:53.660 Yes.

01:21:54.000 mcfoley yes it's it's crazy to me like just like how ingrained in wrestling you are you're it's

01:22:00.860 almost you're almost synonymous with wrestling well and again so how many moments have been

01:22:06.300 passionate beautiful wonderful dream affirming life affirming moments for me you know you'll

01:22:14.420 have that in life and and believe me when if if you're if you are blessed enough to

01:22:19.220 become a very old man like me uh you'll sit back and they'll say what was it like when this

01:22:24.780 happened on the podcast what was it like when this happened what was it like when when his

01:22:27.740 life changed what was it like when your life changed but you have to be present for him

01:22:31.500 because we've because they're not with the stuff you asked him about but we've we've together

01:22:36.400 separate lived through a lot of moments over the past eight to ten years that qualify heavily for

01:22:42.020 that type of and and we've we've never really some of them haven't been processed properly

01:22:47.540 haven't been put compartmentalized properly one thing i do want to ask you for for a run out is

01:22:53.040 you talk about this this catalog and inventory of events that you've seen in wwf wwe and i hate

01:23:00.440 superlatives he does too on the show we don't do it a lot what's your moment man what's the moment

01:23:05.720 that stands out to you that you think about and you still get sweaty palms or goosebumps

01:23:10.140 having witnessed it having stood and bared testimony to this moment

01:23:15.260 all of it the whole thing the whole thing um and the best moment hasn't happened yet because if i

01:23:27.780 think that it if it has i'd be off doing other things i'd be i'd be i'd be writing producing

01:23:35.520 directing movies i'd i'd be creating uh i'd i'd i'd i'd try to compete with taylor sheridan and

01:23:41.380 put something on Netflix that would compete with what he has over on Paramount Plus with

01:23:46.740 Landman and Yellowstone. I would take on some other genres. I would take some friends of mine

01:23:57.860 in the music business and get into a studio and say, I'll pay for the studio time. Let's just

01:24:01.880 jam. Let's see if I can do the Rick Rubin and produce even though I have no musical understanding

01:24:08.320 whatsoever um i i i i would do something else all of it and all of it with with the expectation of

01:24:17.580 we can top this tomorrow and two days from now we can top tomorrow um if if if it's um i mean

01:24:26.000 it there are easy answers ecw itself getting on pay-per-view for ecw uh the first ecw pay-per-view

01:24:34.200 the last ecw pay-per-view uh the uh the revival of ecw in 2005 and that one night stand uh in the

01:24:42.820 entire show brock lesnar conquering the undertaker streak what about you ad-libbing john cena's theme

01:24:51.140 song there you go see and i can i can do and the funny thing is and i and i love john cena because

01:25:00.140 i went up to john and i said uh you know i expect you to tear into us he goes oh that's a good

01:25:07.400 expectation and then i said uh i said uh would you like to know my retort and he goes no i said

01:25:13.100 my retort's a little unconventional and he says he goes great i'll react to it naturally out there

01:25:18.380 i said you sure you don't want to know this nope he goes he goes you can't see me and i can't hear

01:25:24.620 you right now and he walked away you know and I was like okay and you know then you know he he

01:25:30.160 just dug into us and dug into us and I'm just like and I walked away and he comes to the back

01:25:37.720 and he's just he's laughing his ass off tearing but you know reaction wise because he's so great

01:25:43.740 he reacted perfectly to it um but I mean again it's that it's and by the way all of these things

01:25:51.160 And I can tell you, you know, I, how could I not mention simply sitting on the couch for the last five seconds of the SmackDown after Roman Reigns returned during COVID and we were heading towards, he was still the big dog and I was still known as Brock Lesnar's advocate and the camera pans out for the last five seconds of SmackDown.

01:26:12.340 and and he had he had hit my catchphrase because he hit that's not a prediction that's a spoiler

01:26:18.180 and and you see you see um uh uh um who was it uh um

01:26:23.840 adam pierce it was adam pierce goes that look gets a look on his face and the camera pans out

01:26:30.920 and i'm sitting on this this ratty ass we was vince was so mad because he went god damn that's

01:26:36.680 terrible couch jesus christ what what that looks like shit but we but we did it live you know and

01:26:43.720 even though it was it was taped i you know he said let's reshoot it like but we have no other couches

01:26:48.560 and we're gonna find a couch at you know at midnight now in shooting this you know and that

01:26:53.620 was it so we lived with it um but i'm sitting on a couch with roman and and and and the camera pans

01:26:59.500 out and i hit the big dog's line and i i just said believe that and we're off the air and so for five

01:27:05.720 seconds we end a smackdown with brock lesnar's advocate on the couch with the big dog within a

01:27:12.580 week we named him the tribal chief we named him the head of the table and he had the title on him

01:27:18.880 48 hours later um i can't tell you that's not the moment because the whole wwe universe at that

01:27:27.860 moment shifted that was the moment that completely changed everything during the pandemic because

01:27:35.380 that was the birth of the tribal chief but that's not the moment either all of these moments my

01:27:42.320 entire 40-year experience is a moment it's a blink of an eye it's it's it's a blur yet with details

01:27:49.720 i understand but i'm i'm a junkie too nice but one that doesn't want to recover one that doesn't

01:27:59.020 want treatment i embrace my addiction my addiction is the pursuit of topping my addiction is to

01:28:07.600 put put in a body of work as a supporting player as a collaborator on something creative

01:28:14.700 and walk by the mirror after the day is done and say to myself follow that motherfucker

01:28:20.720 and then the next day strive to do so and the day after that strive to beat whatever i came up with

01:28:28.400 for the next day it's just a pursuit of the future it's just looking forward and never resting on

01:28:35.320 your laurels i don't want to be that guy that like i can't watch myself really oh god no really

01:28:42.820 oh watch back the tapes you don't watch the tapes uh the first week like i'll study it the first

01:28:48.580 week just to see how i did what i did what i don't like that i do how i hold my body it's my body

01:28:54.860 language right um javier bardem has a great thing about acting and that he looks at in the script

01:29:01.080 and he looks at the body first he was and he says i don't really he says i don't i don't read it for

01:29:05.420 the words i don't read it for the emotion i read it for the body how's my body gonna react you know

01:29:10.060 if you're like you'll never see me do this yeah ladies and gentlemen my is even the way my voice

01:29:16.300 sounds now you know ladies this is how you sound like jerry lewis like lady you know like this

01:29:22.600 you know but you know because because it's king schlong it's i'm 10 feet tall out there you know

01:29:28.980 i'm 10 feet tall and and and and i'm uh and then i'm 14 inches flaccid and some women like it that

01:29:35.160 wide you know i mean i'm i'm you know i'm just out there you know it is a gentleman you know

01:29:40.540 and he just looked i mean i'm standing like i have like i have lats like i'm standing there

01:29:44.900 like this like i'm jacked and i'm not jacked but i feel it when i'm out you know my name is

01:29:51.600 you know boom you know like that but when i'm being confronted by a solo soko or a jacob fatua

01:29:57.020 somebody man the balls crawl up into your stomach i mean i i literally i i try to teach this to

01:30:02.840 people if you're afraid don't be like this this is now if you're afraid you're not like this

01:30:08.620 you're afraid man you you you you sink in everything crawls up inside you you're like this

01:30:14.580 you turn your shoulder you come away from you know it's so it's it's it's it's it's all about

01:30:19.940 that you know so so um the exhilaration to me in life is is is is is looking forward i look at i

01:30:31.600 look at my body of work and um and you know for the first few days i'll study everything that i do

01:30:37.380 what can okay oh you know they're cutting cameras now a little differently oh i gotta play to this

01:30:42.360 side a little more oh man they like this cameraman he's coming up from they like this camera angle

01:30:47.480 Okay, how do I play to that camera angle that nobody else is playing to?

01:30:53.240 How do I stay ahead of the rest of the crew?

01:30:55.360 How do I get Roman to lean into this side so that they have this?

01:30:59.760 Because they love this camera shot.

01:31:01.240 How do we give it to them?

01:31:02.500 So I study it for the first couple days, and then I can't stand watching my stuff.

01:31:08.600 And I shouldn't.

01:31:10.620 If I showed you one of your matches from six months ago,

01:31:15.160 You look at it and go, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, my God, the power of Christ compels you.

01:31:22.200 You know, you'll try to, you'll perform an exorcism on it.

01:31:27.040 You'll hate it.

01:31:28.080 Well, you should because you're so much better now than you were six months ago.

01:31:31.300 If I'm not that much better six months, let alone six weeks, let alone six days from that performance, someone's going to catch up to me.

01:31:40.480 I want to be able to look back six weeks ago and go, ew.

01:31:44.300 Now I know I'm progressing.

01:31:46.120 Now I know I'm getting better.

01:31:47.540 Now I know I offer something that someone 29 can't offer.

01:31:51.940 Someone in better shape than me, full head of hair, gorgeous, wears better suits than

01:31:56.180 me, can't offer.

01:31:57.660 What I offer is unique because I stay ahead of everybody else because I don't want to

01:32:03.480 only be as good as I was six days ago.

01:32:05.380 I want to walk into SmackDown this Friday as my audition to be invited back the next

01:32:10.760 week because don't judge me on my body or work it's also why i introduced myself at the beginning

01:32:16.820 because it's like hey anything i've done before take me for how i am now ladies and gentlemen my

01:32:21.340 name is paul hayman we're starting today um so it again long story even longer it's i can't stand

01:32:30.300 watching myself and i shouldn't be able to stand watching myself because if i can stand watching

01:32:34.900 myself i haven't progressed enough to think it's it's it's it's passe it's garbage it's yesterday

01:32:40.520 it's trite it's it's uh it's been done okay that's cool what's next

01:32:45.900 well paul hayman we could go for seven hours if we wanted to could we get it sponsored i think

01:32:54.900 we're sponsored by prime so that comes out of your pocket anyway so okay you're sponsored

01:32:59.720 this this this lack of sponsorship is concerning to me though yeah me too man uh uh uh paul what

01:33:08.660 what an honor man well thank you thank you for coming on impulsive i uh i i uh marvel every

01:33:14.500 second i get to speak with you i think i think you are the wise man which i wasn't sure at first

01:33:18.260 when roman started slinging that around when i had my roman storyline i hear wise man wise man

01:33:23.860 like what you can't be that wise so wise so full of wisdom man and uh i look forward to just picking

01:33:30.180 your brain and learning from you and growing this relationship as i continue down this path

01:33:34.420 uh but in this path right here we appreciate your presence ladies and gentlemen paul hayman

01:33:40.180 all right brother oh i also can't wait for you to meet my daughter

01:33:45.700 i'm sorry my daughter is she here no oh no no just in general i feel like you're her like long

01:33:53.520 lost uncle well thank you yeah all right guys that's it that's it what sure how without maybe

01:34:01.860 given too much specifics.

01:34:03.240 Do we say goodbye?

01:34:04.900 How do you go about booking Logan for the year

01:34:07.200 maybe without the teams

01:34:09.460 without some super specific, but you're good at this stuff.

01:34:13.040 It all depends

01:34:14.860 on

01:34:16.280 other circumstances

01:34:18.420 right now.

01:34:19.820 This year is wild.

01:34:22.360 This year is wild.

01:34:23.720 And

01:34:24.120 here's the

01:34:27.820 honest answer.

01:34:29.600 If the question is how I would

01:34:31.800 book logan paul in 2025 my answer is i wouldn't book him just for 2025 my question would be

01:34:39.720 who's logan paul's opponent for wrestlemania 42 which is in 2026 and more importantly who's logan

01:34:50.200 paul's opponent in 2027 which is wrestlemania 43 if we're just looking at who's his opponent for

01:34:59.320 41 which is this april or 42 which is which is next year then we're kind of narrow casting here

01:35:06.280 yeah then then in in an industry that has now

01:35:09.760 enabled its fan base to embrace long-term storytelling

01:35:17.020 i'm capping you at 18 months oh who's my opponent for 42 wow that's only 18 months from now who's

01:35:26.100 your opponent for 43 and once we figure out who your opponent is for 43 work backwards

01:35:31.400 yeah sick i i never have written a script

01:35:35.360 no i've never written a script or answered an idea without knowing the final page yeah i write

01:35:46.820 the final page first yeah here's the end it may transition to something else but here's how this

01:35:54.380 story ends now how do we get there how do we milk it how do we tease them what's the intrigue what's

01:36:00.840 what what what are the other characters dimensions that play off of this how does this story affect

01:36:06.740 all others uh if if you write it from the beginning and you project it out uh again that

01:36:16.360 becomes a thing of it's complicated and and it takes on so many different variables that you

01:36:22.380 lose the focus of where you're going if everything drives to this point then you know the narrative

01:36:30.020 that you want to tell then the little not making sure solo never said acknowledge me before he

01:36:37.240 said it in madison square garden making sure he's never referred to as a tribal chief before man

01:36:41.200 making sure that all roads led to that moment that 15 minute segment that just engrossed everybody

01:36:49.520 because everything since Wrestlemania

01:36:52.200 built to that moment

01:36:53.600 so I wouldn't book Logan Paul

01:36:57.800 just for this year

01:36:59.360 or until Wrestlemania 42

01:37:01.740 I've screwed you if I did that

01:37:03.560 I've given you an 18 month trajectory

01:37:06.020 and you got nowhere to go after that

01:37:07.440 but I give you a two and a half year trajectory

01:37:10.340 if I take you that far out

01:37:12.580 my god we know everything

01:37:14.400 we're building towards

01:37:15.420 we can then create the pivots

01:37:17.860 And if something comes along that a new character rises and you're like,

01:37:23.160 oh, my God, we got to get him in a ring with Logan Paul,

01:37:25.760 or something else happens that changes the narrative,

01:37:29.460 then it gets added to the narrative as we still go for that line up to 43.

01:37:35.020 See, fair, fair.

01:37:37.100 All right, ladies and gentlemen, his name is Paul Heyman.

01:37:41.740 If you're not subscribed, hit that subscribe button.

01:37:43.940 Thank you for listening, watching, and viewing WWE.

01:37:47.540 I'm coming in hot this year.

01:37:49.240 And next year and the year after, according to the five-year plan.

01:37:52.360 Take it easy, guys.

01:37:53.240 Peace.

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01:38:24.100 Lisa, tell them about our new show.

01:38:26.780 We have a new podcast.

01:38:28.100 It's called Don't Lie to Me.

01:38:29.500 I'm Lexi Iwanu.

01:38:30.700 We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart.

01:38:34.820 And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references,

01:38:39.200 occasionally different opinions.

01:38:40.220 And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

01:38:43.460 Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, Good Taste is my business.

01:38:48.520 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:38:55.240 I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast.

01:39:00.980 The true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it.

01:39:05.380 Each week, I bring on an amazing guest.

01:39:07.280 Ooh, I scammed them.

01:39:08.460 What?

01:39:08.720 I could talk to you for an hour.

01:39:10.500 You're a generational yapper, like me.

01:39:12.500 That's why I had to make yapping a job.

01:39:14.480 And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube.

01:39:17.720 Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app,

01:39:20.700 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:39:23.680 Scam Goddess!

01:39:25.500 Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman.

01:39:27.140 Angela Jaritana.

01:39:28.060 Jeremy Culhane.

01:39:28.760 Patrick McDonald.

01:39:29.700 And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast.

01:39:33.520 The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast,

01:39:35.240 where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft.

01:39:39.380 Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants.

01:39:42.460 And we do a little Halloween sometimes.

01:39:44.680 Does the Pope dress up?

01:39:46.000 He winks on Halloween.

01:39:48.280 It's right up next to the microphone.

01:39:50.000 I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other.

01:39:53.100 You've never seen Italy so quiet

01:39:55.420 as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween.

01:39:58.380 Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists

01:40:00.720 every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app,

01:40:02.800 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Impaulsive with Logan Paul - January 14, 2025

Paul Heyman on Mocking John Cena, Returning With Roman Reigns & CM Punk, Logan Paul’s WWE Future

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