00:00:00.000well adding to the cross-border tension is the republican party's decision to block the cbc
00:00:11.180from its convention this after the public broadcaster told its reporters to stop referring
00:00:16.940to the 9-11 attacks as terrorism that editorial edict lasted all of 30 minutes during which
00:00:24.700time the Liberal cabinet expressed dismay over the move. The CBC reversed course, but
00:00:30.580not before the Republicans made CBC persona non grata from its convention. Our guest today is
00:00:37.360senior fellow for the McDonald-Orient Institute, Peter Menzies, who is also CRTC commissioner and
00:00:43.280publisher of the Calgary Herald. Welcome, Peter. Thanks very much. Great to see you again.
00:00:48.140What did you make of this move to begin with when you heard that CBC was going to make this
00:00:53.320editorial change as far as labeling the 9-11 attacks. Yeah, that was a very poor idea on
00:01:02.160their part. I mean, you do need actually to have policies on these things, because I can think of,
00:01:06.880I mean, I can think of at least one CBC reporter who would happily use the term terrorist
00:01:12.000to refer to the Israel Defense Forces, you know, when it comes to that sort of thing. So you do
00:01:18.120have to have some sort of discipline on it. And I get that you're trying to do it to make sure that
00:01:23.100You have, you know, some discipline around objectivity in news, but you also have to have a belief in objective truth, right?
00:01:32.400And when it comes to objective truth, there is no question that the 9-11 attacks were terrorism.
00:01:40.140And to be so pedantic about the application of a general principle, a rule of thumb that, you know, we're going to work with in this newsroom
00:01:48.640And to ban the use of the word terrorism around something as objectively, obviously, terrorism as 9-11 was just, like, ridiculously bureaucratic.
00:02:01.260Yeah, I think their rationale for doing that is that they saw it as a hijacking, which happened to end up with these planes hitting the two towers.
00:02:11.860Yeah, that was almost the worst part was, let's call it this.
00:02:15.540You know, it's, I mean, you get into these things where, you know, you want to call illegal immigrants, you know, undocumented aliens or visitors or something like that where, you know, you got to be very careful about that.
00:03:08.540What about the CBC's decision to reverse course under political pressure to do so,
00:03:13.280at least so it seems, because that happened within 30 minutes, as reported by Blacklock's
00:03:18.520reporter, of this decision becoming public. And of course, there was that Warren Kinsella story,
00:03:25.360and that spread. And then CBC said, no, we're not going to do that after all. So
00:03:32.280it looks bad. It appears that they bowed to pressure from cabinet. Does it seem that way to
00:03:39.840It sure looks like that. And I mean, to me, that's there's sort of two things here. One is their, you know, ridiculous application of their policy, right, which I think they were right to reverse or amend that. But the thing that might be even more worrying is the fact that somebody in cabinet said jump and the CBC said how high.
00:04:05.260Now, that's just going to confirm that there's going to be a lot of your viewers and listeners who look at this and sort of go, well, so what?
00:04:11.860We all know the CBC, you know, follows whatever the government tells us to do, which I think probably insults a good many CBC journalists, because I know that that's not the case for many of them.
00:04:24.480But the way corporate politics can work and managerial career management can work, it certainly looks bad.
00:04:35.220I mean, that's the story I'd like to see people pursuing, right?
00:04:39.460Now there was the initial story, right?
00:04:41.680But what I'd like to know now is I'd like to see journalists pursuing the who called who, you know?
00:04:47.780who called who and who said what to who and or who made sure they didn't actually have to make
00:04:54.180a phone call or send an email and knocked on somebody's office door, raised an eyebrow and
00:04:59.280said, would you consider? Yeah, hard to imagine that if it was a conservative government
00:05:06.740expressing displeasure as something the CBC did, that they would reverse course the way they did.
00:05:11.760So this feeds into the idea that the CBC, at least editorially speaking, and its news department is almost an extension of the Liberal Party of Canada.
00:10:32.320But I have to ask you, what about the Republicans jumping on this, you know, with both feet as soon as they got wind of it, you know, barring the CBC from their convention?
00:10:45.720Does that does that bother you a little bit?
00:10:48.060Yeah, it does. I mean, I mean, I guess a lot of people would look at it and their first reaction would be, well, you know, you you you reap as you sow.
00:10:55.400You had it coming sort of thing, but I don't believe that journalists should be barred from things in terms of that.
00:11:02.800I felt the same way when during Mark Carney's leadership campaign, he barred Western Standard from his meetings and rallies in Edmonton, just for no particular reason.
00:11:15.100I mean, you could say Western Standard is unashamedly conservative, so of course they're going to get banned, right?
00:11:21.060So if you use that logic and you approve of that, then you would approve of this, but I don't approve of either. So you can't do that. I mean, you can do it legally. It's a private event, technically, but they're going to cover it whether they sit there and watch TV and take notes and send it that way and pick up clips from somebody else, whether they're accredited or not.
00:11:44.240If you were the prime minister, would you ask the GOP to reconsider as a goodwill gesture and allow CBC to cover it as an accredited media source?
00:11:56.920No, I would not, because that would be inserting political power into the CBC.
00:12:07.400It's too late for that, though, isn't it?
00:12:09.060Well, I know, I know, I know, I know. But I mean, you're asking me if I was Prime Minister. There's lots of guys who, if they were Prime Minister, would do it. But if I was Prime Minister, I would not, if I was Prime Minister, I wouldn't be subsidizing media.
00:12:22.700You know, I mean, if I was prime minister, there'd be a much different CBC construct than you see today.
00:12:30.020But I don't like the idea of going on bended knee to somebody asking on, you know, somebody's behalf.
00:12:38.020I mean, that'll probably sort itself out eventually.
00:12:41.000But, you know, like right now, the Republicans are really kind of happy to stick it to the CBC.
00:12:47.440I mean, they stick it to their own, what they view as left of center news organizations all the time.
00:12:54.220So, I mean, why wouldn't they slap the CBC around a little bit on this one?
00:12:59.960When you and I were at the CRTC together, I mean, there were debates about the CBC.
00:13:03.960I seem to recall starting to myself on occasion.
00:13:08.980Would there even be a CBC if you were prime minister?
00:13:14.140Yeah, I think there's a need for a public broadcaster in Canada.
00:13:18.560I think one of the ways the CBC could actually be useful these days
00:13:22.460is in filling in what you call news deserts and that.
00:13:24.840I think the North desperately needs a broadcaster, radio and TV.