JustPearlyThings - June 26, 2023


Panelists Thoughts on TRANS in SPORTS

Topics
trans women in sports trans women in sports transgender athletes in volleyball volleyball athleticism differences
Hosted by
Hannah Pearl Davis
Mentioned
Niagara Falls
Trans Man Got TRIGGERED By This FACT The SHOCKING Truth About VIRGIN WOMEN

Episode Stats


Length

14 minutes

Words per minute

186.83

Word count

2,628

Sentence count

248

Harmful content

Misogyny

14

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we discuss the issue of trans people playing in sports of the opposite gender, as well as whether or not they should be allowed to play in them. We also talk about the benefits and disadvantages of using hormones in sports, and how to integrate trans people into them.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 What are you guys' opinions on trans people playing in sports of the opposite or like trans women playing in women's sports?
00:00:08.380 Go ahead.
00:00:11.040 I feel like it's something that cannot be generalized.
00:00:16.220 I feel like every sport is different.
00:00:19.180 Every sport has a different skill set.
00:00:25.020 Every sport has different levels of contact, different aspects that you need that could either benefit or not be benefited by the use of like hormones.
00:00:36.860 So I think personally, it's something that can't be generalized and it has to be seen as like a sort of like subject by subject situation or matter.
00:00:48.200 Okay.
00:00:49.260 What about for volleyball?
00:00:51.120 That was the example I used.
00:00:53.300 Volleyball, see, I mean, it depends on how much depth you want to go into.
00:00:57.600 I mean, I don't know volleyball to a certain extent.
00:00:59.880 I can imagine that, you know, if, for example, you've got someone who is female to male and they're taking testosterone and they're playing with like cis women, 0.67
00:01:10.880 you could comment on the fact that testosterone allows like muscle build quicker or like, you know,
00:01:19.620 therefore they might get like a harder, a harder spike, for example.
00:01:22.860 But then I know some insanely strong cis women. 1.00
00:01:26.820 So does that really take things like into another dimension in the game?
00:01:31.800 I don't know.
00:01:32.300 To be honest.
00:01:33.660 So I don't think there's been enough research or enough.
00:01:39.880 Yeah.
00:01:40.300 I don't, I don't think there's been enough of a look into it.
00:01:42.560 Okay.
00:01:42.920 So for the time being, what do you think they should do?
00:01:45.160 Should we integrate or should we keep them separate?
00:01:46.920 What, as far as volleyball goes?
00:01:48.980 Yeah.
00:01:49.320 Volleyball, women's and men's sports in general.
00:01:52.140 Again, I can't, I can't say.
00:01:53.840 Okay.
00:01:54.080 You don't know.
00:01:54.680 Your answer could be, I don't know.
00:01:55.940 Yeah.
00:01:56.200 It can't be generalized in my opinion.
00:01:58.460 Okay.
00:01:58.960 Go ahead.
00:01:59.820 You're okay.
00:02:00.800 Well, the problem is I can talk a lot and I didn't want to like drown these guys out,
00:02:04.020 but I can go now if you want.
00:02:05.760 Yeah.
00:02:06.240 Should I let the others speak?
00:02:08.060 I don't know.
00:02:08.640 Cause I can talk for a lot.
00:02:10.480 It's up to you.
00:02:11.520 You know, either go or don't go.
00:02:12.940 So I almost have a similar opinion to you.
00:02:17.140 It does depend on the sport and the governing body.
00:02:19.940 But there are a number of things that I would do probably differently because testosterone
00:02:23.660 isn't the only thing we should be taking into account depending on the sport, especially
00:02:29.440 because there are a number of differences between men and women that aren't changed just
00:02:34.500 by taking hormones.
00:02:35.940 Um, for example, men have more type two muscle fibers and women have more type one type two
00:02:43.340 is more for bursts of strength and type one is for endurance.
00:02:47.820 So women are better in endurance and are better at like running really fast. 1.00
00:02:52.700 So an obvious example of where I think it may end up being unfair would maybe be with
00:02:58.100 sprinting.
00:02:58.780 Um, but the longer the distance, the running, the more fair it becomes, um, with volleyball,
00:03:05.900 volleyball is really difficult.
00:03:06.880 And I played a lot of team sports when I was a kid, not volleyball.
00:03:11.480 I played netball, which is the girl bad version of basketball and rounders, which is the bad 1.00
00:03:17.180 girl version of, um, baseball is really English bad sports. 0.99
00:03:24.720 They kind of suck.
00:03:25.460 I don't know why they make us do those. 0.94
00:03:26.640 But I will say, so assuming we're talking like at school level, so like before anyone's
00:03:34.660 really had time to transition or do much, I played with boys in rounders and it was not
00:03:40.060 fun.
00:03:40.760 They hit the ball for like 10 times further. 0.99
00:03:42.860 And then I'm out there in like the depth of field running after the damn balls for like 1.00
00:03:47.220 most of the game. 0.99
00:03:48.200 So I will say like there are issues with it.
00:03:52.060 Um, it kind of depends on what level, which game and how you're integrating people.
00:03:56.640 Um, I am an advocate for not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so I think it can
00:04:01.660 work, but I don't know if it's working right now.
00:04:04.660 Yeah.
00:04:05.660 Okay.
00:04:06.660 Yeah.
00:04:07.660 What do you think?
00:04:08.660 Yeah.
00:04:09.660 I mean, I think that they should just be able to play to be honest.
00:04:12.680 I mean, even with people who are born a certain way, there's people that are better at doing
00:04:19.360 things than others.
00:04:20.460 That's just how it goes.
00:04:21.880 I mean, I understand that, uh, mainly for men who transition into women.
00:04:27.760 I think I understand what they're saying sometimes.
00:04:32.440 For example, you know, if it was to say like boxing, you know, um, a person who was born
00:04:38.600 a man and then transitioned into a woman, maybe later on in life, fully developed into 0.90
00:04:44.840 puberty and then decides to get into a ring with a woman who was born a woman.
00:04:49.500 Um, I think that might be a bit techie, but I think the whole point of transitioning is 1.00
00:04:55.900 to be who you feel you are.
00:04:58.700 And if you've got an interest in, if you have an interest and a passion in sport, I don't
00:05:04.500 think you shouldn't be allowed to play that sport because you've decided to transition.
00:05:09.080 I understand how it can be unfair physically, but it comes with it, you know, it comes with
00:05:17.640 it, I think.
00:05:18.200 So I just think that.
00:05:19.740 What do you think?
00:05:20.520 Cause I just don't think it's fair.
00:05:22.140 Um, even if we just take things like height, like I'm in the top 1% of height for females. 1.00
00:05:26.820 And I was like short when it came to getting recruited for colleges.
00:05:30.020 Like if we brought men in there, I'd be in the top 15%.
00:05:32.880 And like, I really wouldn't have any opportunity if men were, you know, even if it's like trans 1.00
00:05:37.640 women, like after they transition, the height stays the same. 1.00
00:05:40.960 Yeah.
00:05:41.220 I think usually like, for example, with my previous example with boxing, there's usually
00:05:44.520 like weight classes.
00:05:46.340 So with boxing is probably like a little bit okay.
00:05:49.780 Cause you'd be matched fairly.
00:05:51.800 But, um, like you said about, um, running, I don't, I'm not too sure.
00:05:57.400 I don't know that information about, um, I think you said, sorry, what did you say?
00:06:01.480 Like sprinting?
00:06:02.700 T1 or T2 or something like that?
00:06:04.420 Yeah.
00:06:04.620 Twitch muscle fibers, so men and women tend to have a different percentage of both.
00:06:09.240 And you don't really lose that.
00:06:10.260 Cause why do men win in marathons then? 0.59
00:06:12.900 Um, so when I say endurance, I'm talking like ultra endurance is where men and women tend
00:06:17.940 to be, they compete together and women win often. 0.58
00:06:21.000 Like it's about 50-50 who's winning, but ultra endurance.
00:06:24.060 That's like a very fringe, small group.
00:06:26.260 It's not fringe, but it is crazy because I mean, when you're doing these types of ultra
00:06:32.380 endurance swimming, there's a decent chance of death.
00:06:35.020 Like somebody just died recently trying to swim the channel crossing.
00:06:38.980 Yeah.
00:06:39.980 So it's not so much niche.
00:06:40.980 It's like, have you seen those people that go off of Niagara Falls?
00:06:43.240 Like a dead, like.
00:06:44.240 Yeah.
00:06:45.240 I mean, it's difficult.
00:06:47.240 I think it's Manhattan Island swimming and British Isle alone.
00:06:52.240 Right.
00:06:53.240 But my point is in general men are faster.
00:06:55.240 Definitely faster.
00:06:56.240 So if you, as I said, sprinting that counts for short distance swimming as well.
00:07:00.300 Well, but even with marathons, men are still faster.
00:07:02.920 I mean, there, there might be like a fringe ultra marathon, but that's like.
00:07:06.260 Ultra endurance is definitely longer than a regular marathon.
00:07:08.920 Yeah.
00:07:09.420 Right.
00:07:09.920 But I'm saying more people compete in a marathon and you said it's still 50-50 for ultra endurance.
00:07:13.840 I just can't imagine that's that popular of a sport.
00:07:16.060 Like, it's very hard, obviously a lot of people don't want to do it because it's as difficult
00:07:21.300 as it is.
00:07:22.300 Clearly.
00:07:23.300 I could, I did a marathon.
00:07:24.300 It was the worst day of my life.
00:07:25.300 Like.
00:07:26.300 Yeah.
00:07:27.300 My, my mom was a long distance runner as well.
00:07:28.800 Now smoke, I have no chance.
00:07:30.300 It's a, it's a tough one.
00:07:32.300 Um, but it, it just becomes, so men would have the disadvantage because they don't have the 0.99
00:07:37.040 same muscle fibers as women. 1.00
00:07:38.980 So when they transition, they don't have the advantage within that endurance necessarily.
00:07:43.300 And assuming that there is some negative impact to certain things when they're taking
00:07:48.460 estrogen somewhat, I think it's fine for endurance sports.
00:07:53.160 So what about, what about marathons?
00:07:54.980 You'd make it.
00:07:55.980 Um, so there are a number of sports.
00:07:59.980 There are some where I'm sure it's fine.
00:08:01.980 There are some where I'm fairly sure it's not fine.
00:08:04.480 And then there's some in the middle where I think we need more research done.
00:08:07.980 Like, I'm not going to say no or yes to the ones in the middle because, um, I'm not sure.
00:08:12.980 I do think that we need to study more, less just reduction of testosterone and more the
00:08:18.980 other things that make men, you know, stronger in various ways, like lung capacity and height
00:08:25.980 to a point.
00:08:26.980 Oh, it's, it's super important.
00:08:28.980 Yeah.
00:08:29.980 Because I played basketball and volleyball.
00:08:30.980 It's super important.
00:08:31.980 For volleyball and basketball, it is super important, but there's a bunch of sports where
00:08:36.980 height either doesn't matter or being shorter is actually beneficial.
00:08:38.980 So that's why I say it does depend on sport.
00:08:41.980 But I think for the sports where height does matter, it is important to, it might just be
00:08:46.980 that we have to cap trans women. 0.91
00:08:49.980 Like you can compete, but only if you're under the height of the tallest women that can compete. 1.00
00:08:54.980 Right.
00:08:55.980 Cause then you're not like four or five inches taller than they are or something.
00:08:59.980 It's, it's, it's hard.
00:09:00.980 And I, I can appreciate that you're in a difficult position with that.
00:09:04.980 Yeah.
00:09:05.980 But even if they're the same height, it's like, they're stronger than us.
00:09:08.980 In general.
00:09:09.980 Yeah.
00:09:10.980 Cause I was just.
00:09:11.980 Team sports.
00:09:12.980 It's really difficult.
00:09:13.980 Like, like how many people are there on a volleyball?
00:09:15.980 Six.
00:09:16.980 Six.
00:09:17.980 Five for basketball.
00:09:18.980 Yeah.
00:09:19.980 So it's like quite impactful if he has, yeah.
00:09:22.980 Team sports are the thing that I have the least amount of experience with too.
00:09:26.980 So I don't want to speak over you.
00:09:27.980 Well, my, my thing is like, if we're going to title it women's sports and men's sports,
00:09:31.980 I think it's like misleading if we go to a tournament expecting it to be women.
00:09:35.980 And then there's, there's trans people there, you know, like, cause, cause then it's like,
00:09:39.980 I didn't agree to that.
00:09:40.980 Like I agreed to play in the way, like, cause that's why I was pissed off this weekend,
00:09:44.980 because it was like these, like one, one of the teams would just set the trans, trans woman every single time.
00:09:51.980 And it's like, and one other team had, had four or five.
00:09:54.980 And I'm like, I just don't think that's fair.
00:09:55.980 Really?
00:09:56.980 Yeah.
00:09:57.980 Yeah.
00:09:58.980 It was Philippines and Brazil. 0.94
00:09:59.980 It was called all nations.
00:10:00.980 So it's like from different Philippines and Brazil must just, yeah, it must be big there.
00:10:03.980 So it was those two.
00:10:04.980 I always got the impression that it wasn't really enough transgender people to have their own sort of sports.
00:10:09.980 So I will hypothesize how I would temporarily fix this situation later.
00:10:13.980 Cause I don't want to ramble too much and let everyone, cause these guys haven't really spoken yet.
00:10:17.980 So obviously you're an athlete, so you've actually played.
00:10:21.980 So you actively have, you can have an opinion because you're in that situation.
00:10:26.980 So personally, my opinion is, is that it's kind of, it's just really a struggle.
00:10:35.980 I feel for like a female athlete, you're going there. 1.00
00:10:38.980 Obviously you just mentioned that you go there and it's like for transgender players on the opposing side.
00:10:44.980 And it's like, you do, do you feel uncomfortable?
00:10:46.980 Do you feel like, Oh, you know, I might not be able to be, you know, like you're not comparable biologically.
00:10:54.980 Do you know what I mean?
00:10:55.980 Because like there's like a difference.
00:10:56.980 No, I don't think it's comparable.
00:10:57.980 I mean, I I've played with men.
00:10:58.980 So like I've played like, um, co like basketball, like you always play at park.
00:11:03.980 So I've played pickup, but I know if I play, I played basketball for maybe 16 years.
00:11:08.980 And I know if I go against the guy who's played maybe five to seven, he'll beat me like easy.
00:11:13.980 Yeah.
00:11:14.980 I think it's like, I personally feel like if there are, like you're saying, I mean, there's like four transgender people on the other side.
00:11:22.980 I feel like then you should just have volleyball specifically just for transgender people, because then that would make more sense. 1.00
00:11:30.980 Right.
00:11:31.980 It's just, it's just not, I feel like it's not fair.
00:11:35.980 It's just not fair.
00:11:36.980 You know, um, there's too many exceptions.
00:11:39.980 And then when there's too many exceptions, it just gets messy.
00:11:43.980 So it should really be straightforward.
00:11:44.980 You know, this is volleyball transgender people, you know? 0.52
00:11:47.980 So you think there should be a third league?
00:11:49.980 There definitely should be one.
00:11:50.980 Okay.
00:11:51.980 What do you think?
00:11:52.980 Yeah, I agree with, um, the lady here. 1.00
00:11:55.980 Um, I think there should be a whole separate league for you guys because, um, thinking of the people that are coming to watch it, right?
00:12:03.980 Like their mindsets are like, if it's just women playing, there should be just women playing, right? 1.00
00:12:09.980 And they're coming to support their women that are playing, right?
00:12:12.980 So I just feel like maybe if they had their own league with their own supporters, it kind of works out.
00:12:19.980 But change is going to come at some point where we are going to integrate both all three genders, right?
00:12:25.980 I hope not.
00:12:26.980 Oh, you never know.
00:12:27.980 Oh, gosh.
00:12:28.980 I hope not.
00:12:29.980 Times are changing, so.
00:12:30.980 No, no.
00:12:31.980 If I went up against a 6'7 dude, I would never get to play.
00:12:34.980 You know?
00:12:36.980 Because, like, I understand.
00:12:37.980 Because I know a lot of the argument is like, well, I'm tall.
00:12:39.980 Like, I'd be taller than a lot of, you know, people that are trans that transitioned or whatever.
00:12:43.980 But I think the issue that I get into is like, still the top percentage are going to be taller than the top percentage of women.
00:12:51.980 Yeah.
00:12:52.980 Do you know if that four-person team, they were all taller than you?
00:12:56.980 Or did you meet them?
00:12:58.980 Yeah.
00:12:59.980 Some were taller, some were shorter.
00:13:01.980 Like, one was a libero.
00:13:04.980 But even, you could just tell, like, when they were playing, like, they're just more athletic.
00:13:10.980 Volleyball is a really technical sport, right?
00:13:12.980 So you have to train for like, I don't know, I would say like five years before you really even get good volley rallies going.
00:13:20.980 But like, men can kind of just do it off the cuff because they're just so much stronger.
00:13:24.980 It's hard to explain unless you know the sport.
00:13:26.980 I can imagine that there is an advantage with being taller because of the height of the net, right?
00:13:30.980 It's going to be easier to hit it over.
00:13:31.980 Even back row just, it's so weird.
00:13:34.980 Guys can do these just like, crazy ups that women just, it takes us so much longer to get there. 1.00
00:13:40.980 Did you find the same disadvantage even with the shorter players?
00:13:44.980 Yes.
00:13:45.980 And it was strength, so they hit harder?
00:13:48.980 I would say they were just a bit quick.
00:13:50.980 You can just tell, I can't really describe what it was.
00:13:53.980 You could just tell the difference.
00:13:55.980 Like, they're a little bit quicker, a little bit more agile.
00:13:58.980 Like, they could just do things that the women couldn't. 1.00
00:14:01.980 Mm, okay.
00:14:02.980 Okay.